*UPDATE* Niche has listened to your feedback and added both SINGLE BURR configurations for the Duo AND adjusted the dual burr price outside of the UK, resulting in a lower price for international customers. (This is also true for the zero!) I have to give kudos here to Niche for listening to the mass amount of customer feedback - a huge amount of comments on this video and others were related to these two things. If you've ever wondered if companies listen to your feedback, they clearly have in this case! Thanks for voicing your opinion and thanks to Niche for listening!
Being able to swap burrs is neat, but I already know that Im not going to bother once I'm past the honeymoon phase. Two burr sets may make sense for some people but, in practice, I think that this is a very small group, even within the niche (no pun intended) market that is weird coffee people. Sell the grinder at a lower price with a choice of either burr set. Allow those that want the other set the option to add it on before checkout. The mandatory inclusion of both sets hurts the value proposition and is wasteful, IMO.
This is the best solution imo. I'd be very interested in this grinder, but I don't own an espresso machine and don't care to, so I'd feel like I'm basically wasting an expensive set of burrs for nothing.
A lot have people have asked, and I’m sure will continue to ask for this. This is also basically the only meaningful “con” I found with the grinder as well, although I really see it more as a compromise than straight negative. Time will tell if Niche changes their tune here - they’ve always definitely done their own thing, sometimes to the chagrin of the market.
True, they do include two relatively cheap Mazzer burrs I believe, would be cool if you can easily swap out for some higher end burrs with very different flavour profiles. I have two upper burr carriers for the Lagom P64 and thought about using the 2nd one for that purpose, but still needs the bottom burr bolts removed so it's a little easier but not quite as easy as swapping on the Niche Duo. They could have just included the extra burr carrier and allowed you to buy a 2nd burr set IF you wanted (or have it included for an extra cost). I can see people who like the original Niche Zero, the looks / workflow wanting to get this, but I think value wise there are better options these days.
I see your point but the goal of this grinder is to not make any compromises and having an high end grinder that can only grind for one single purpose isn't ideal and makes other grinders more appealing. However I would be happy if a second unit could be bought separately of its burrs so you can have the best of both worlds simultaneously with the exact same workflow. Could be pretty usefull for small coffee shops.
@@Saucisse_Praxis There's always a compromise. Without even touching subjective performance aspects, the Duo was designed, from the ground up, as a compromise for the person that would trade convenience and workflow for not having to purchase and accommodate a second grinder on their countertop. As much as people tout the Niche workflow, it's silly not to acknowledge that the Duo has horrible espresso workflow when the filter burrs are installed, and vice versa.
Great video, everything from the editing to the presentation speaks quality! As for the grinder: I love how people who like the Niche tend to gloss over/forgive/find excuses for whatever problem/cons the Niche has, a courtesy they DO NOT extend to any other grinder, especially those marketed as a direct competitor. I also love how people who don't like the Niche behave EXACTLY the same. It truly is the Apple Inc. of the grinder world, you either LOVE it or Hate it, with not much in between.
It’s really funny and true. People tend to either vehemently love or loathe the Niche. My wife loves the design language. It’s ok but not totally my style. They have workflow nailed in the price range though. Definitely not a “perfect” grinder, but is there one??
Aw man. This is so encouraging, thank you! I always try and be transparent but concise. I like having it on the table plainly stated. Thanks for saying so.
Great review!! I have a Niche grinder paired with La Marzocco Mirca since I like medium to darker roast with dark chocolate notes I will not be getting the DUO. My daily espresso of choice is Blue Bottle "Hayes Valley" which is the darkest roast BB makes. Upgrading to DUO would be more ideal for coffee drinkers that prefer lighter roasts but for me I am happy with flavor notes from my Niche.
Interesting review there I think the idea of the two Duos is a great idea, for the price of 1 Lagom P64 with SSP burrs you can have two Duos. I would have one Black and one White to easily tell which is which first thing in the morning, it means that the legendary easy workflow of the Niche is still there and the added bonus of a spare set of burrs for each machine.
Perhaps this is possible in the UK, but since Niche appears to be charging (and keeping the proceeds from?) UK VAT to international customers, even just one niche duo can cost almost as much as a P64 with SSP's in some countries. I'm in the USA, and before any import dutues (not sure if they apply/how much they would be), I believe a Duo would cost me ~$1070 USD. That's almost exactly what I would pay for a DF83 V2 with SSP burrs installed, calibrated, and aligned (via the marker/foil method). That's also only $280 less than what I just paid for a Zerno Z1 with custom blind SSP MPs. I've heard folks in the EU that have paid that ~$1070 say that they are expecting to have to pay another ~$400 USD when their grinder arrives (between EU Vat and import costs). I don't think those people are going to consider 2 Duos.
@@Zirassi, it looks like the opposite to me. They're priced correctly from an international market perspective, and just eating the VAT loss in the UK.
@@christopherbuchanan5914 I suppose it's possible they're just paying the tax themselves on behalf of UK customers, but it changes nothing about the real world cost to acquire the grinder outside the UK. Roughly $1500 USD puts it in competition with the best 64mm grinders on the market, at 3 time the price of the 078S (which actually has more burr surface area btw). It would be interesting to ask Niche whether they're paying vat on behalf of UK customers or charging UK vat to international customers, but either way, it didn't take long for someone to presume the latter and post to r/espresso complaining about it.
To be totally transparent, if I was going to use my own money, I would probably save up a lot more and buy a P100 instead. But… most people here would not be in that camp. I try and help people see the positives and negatives, as well as where the compromises have been made, then make their own judgment on how to spend their money. I will say that even at 1400, the Niche is a strong contender in our house. The workflow is tops and it’s the only grinder my wife actually likes. Thanks for asking lance
@Andrew Caldwell zerno beats this. I think I'd take 2x df83s over one of this. Could buy 2 or 3 timemore sculptors for one of this. Acaia orbit is around this price.
@@LanceHedrick Interesting. Have you tested the Niche Duo directly against all of these? How can Zerno beat the Niche Duo if the Zerno isn't available yet? I haven't used either the Duo or DF83, but the DF83 definitely looks cheaper/uglier (although that doesn't have to do with performance, you still have to look at it on your counter). The Scupltor definitely seems compelling, but the Duo workflow seems better for espresso? Love the Acaia but also not really available, not 83mm, and 35% more...suffice to say, I'm going to stick with my Mignon XL for espresso 🙂
I love the idea of having two burrs to get around the "all-in-one problem" you touched on in the video. And it's also great that they're both included at the grinder's base price rather than being an optional additional purchase. That said, I know that with how I structure my coffee work flow, I'd swap them in an out the first few times and then get very fed up with the process. My decision between espresso and filter is often in the moment and following the path of least resistance so I'd probably end up sticking to only filter or only espresso for a while until I decide to swap the burrs out to the other set. At which point I'd just stick with that form of coffee for some time. And that's not really what I'm looking for in an all in one. At that point I might as well get something like an Ode for filter and then a second hand espresso only grinder to sit along side it for a similar total price to the Niche Duo.
I think the primary use for this grinder will be with one “primary” set of burrs and the other for occasional use. I can’t imagine people doing this swap every day which is why I focused in on how this is much less convenient than the Zero or other grinders. It seems like niche is targeting a higher price point with this grinder and the higher you go, the more likely that someone will supplement with a secondary grinder. I have no doubt that some people will buy two of these, although it won’t be the majority
Also! Bro you have probably the best videos and production value when it comes to the coffee world. Super fun and educational to watch and I truly feel well informed. Thank you for that.
I was looking for a flat burr grinder for pourovers and thought I had settled on an Ode 2 before the Duo came out. For now, I'm using the Zero for espresso and the Duo for pourovers. I can always put in the Duo espresso burrs when I do an espresso meetup or machine comparisons.
to eject the little retention remaining in the NZ, I went to the pharmacy to get a small enema bulb that I cut out. After a grinding, I lift the lid, put the cut side towards the millstones and press two or three times which is more than enough! And it really doesn't cost much.
Ooohhh after looking around i found a UA-cam vid of his old 3D printed version. They are a more finished product made out of silicone now. ://ua-cam.com/users/shortsXyDRJAOyzTA?feature=share
I really wanted to get the Duo as I have used the zero for about 3 years and loved it, I unfortunately now live in a country in which they do not ship the Duo to. I spend time mostly in Thailand but visit the US often, I wanted one for Thailand. I went to order the grinder and found out that I cannot get a Euro version shipped to the US to use it in Thailand so unfortunately I am out of luck. I am sure they will be very successful with the Duo and wish them the best.
The obvious comparison is to the DF83, especially since you already have one. I’d love to hear about your thoughts size, workflow, retention (especially if you have the plasma generator in the v2 DF83), noise, etc.
I might make a couple shorts of this, although generally I wouldn’t recommend it. Espresso on the filter burr is not really practically doable because of the burr design. Filter on the espresso burr is drinkable, some may even say good, but a shadow of what the filter burr will deliver
Great review. I feel like I do not know enough about the differences in the burrs. You gave a quick overview in the end but I would love to see a taste comparison. Great review! Thanks.
This is definitely a subject that you can deep dive on in a whole pile of ways. I feel like i could make a 3 hour video about just this! Always a challenge to balance brevity with detail. Are you curious about the taste comparison between the two included burrs? or between these burrs and other, aftermarket burr options? The filter burrs are basically unusable for espresso. When comparing filter cups when using both the espresso and filter burrs, they can both technically make filter, but the espresso burrs have a muddier flavor with hints of unpleasant bitterness and texture. If that doesn't answer your question let me know and I will try to answer in more detail!
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks a lot for the response! Yes, I am def interested in what you mentioned, good to now. I am also uncertain about conical vs flat burrs in general. I love the original Niche and it has conical burrs, so I am interested in how the espresso will taste from the flat burrs compared to the original conical burrs. Is there information on that out there? Thanks!
If you have a Breville machine with the little rubber portafilter stopper for running the cleaning cycle, it’s a perfect hack to use it as a plunger to push out the retained grounds.
I’m like you, I’d want two grinders, one for filter and the other for espresso. Would be nice if they could ship with just one chosen burr set each to bring down the overall price
I picked up a 3D printed bellows for my zero from Introvermakes on Etsy last year, and swapped it for a silicon one this year. By weight, it's almost a gram each time and it looks like it would fit both the zero and duo. Before the bellows, I was worried I was going to chip the lid b/c I was using it to get that last bit out each time.
This is such a great video, well done! The transparency, practical demo, real life use case/considerations- nailed it. I’m trying to work out if this (or honestly the niche zero too, I’ve never had a conical burr grinder) would be a big enough upgrade for my couple years old Eureka Specialita. The idea of having one grinder on my counter that is excellent at both is pretty alluring…
First, the Eureka is a great grinder and if you like it, try to avoid upgradeitis. If you’re not happy with it for some reason, what specifically are you looking for? One thing about the duo is I think 95% of users will likely leave one burr in most of the time except for occasional use. I love both burrs but even I don’t switch daily (I enjoy both filter and espresso daily). In fact, my main gripe with the duo is that it seems like no matter what burr I have loaded, I seem to find myself wishing I had the other one loaded 🤣 Thank you for all the encouragement!!!
Great review thank you for this. I will definitely buy one now haha. I will have two on my desk with my Flair 58. the price is OTT, but i know it is a david and goliath purchase. Annoyingly I wish they did a payment spread or allowed you the option to pick one burr over the other at a reduced price.
I knew there were people out there who would get two 🤣 If you want it and the price makes sense for you in comparison to the other options, I say go for it. It’s a great grinder
Man I want a duo. I have a zero and have really liked it and both grinders would just look great together on my coffee bar. Ultimately, I like having a flat and conical burr option.
I've got a NZ and I've ordered a ND for the same reason. I wouldn't be surprised if after some experimentation, I like the ND so much in both configurations that I replace the NZ with another ND. So just like the video, one for espresso and the other for V60.
I’ve seen a lot of reviews on this so far, and the one thing I am missing from all of them is how do the espresso burrs work for filter and vice versa. I like the idea of 2 burrs, but i do think i am way too lazy to do that at 3am when I’m up for work. I usually do one espresso shot, then a pour over. It will be nice on a day off and mess around. But if one set of burrs can make both espresso and filter pretty well I’d be happy about it
I've been getting mixed opinions on the flavors for flat and conical burrs. I've heard flats are better for chocolate and caramel notes while providing more clarity. Whereas conicals are better for fruit flavors and acidity and providing more body over clarity. I've also come across videos and articles stating the exact opposite. In terms of grind consistency, I've been told flats are much more uniform and conicals create more fines and boulders. Any input you have on this is greatly appreciated. Also, this is the first video of yours I've seen and will definitely be diving into your channel.
Hey Nicholas! Thanks for dropping by! Burrs are definitely something you can spend a lot of time deep diving on and it’s good to remember that there will be exceptions to almost every generalization about them. That being said! Generally I would say that flats provide more clarity, less body, and depending on the burr are better suited to more fruit forward flavours and lighter roasts. Conicals generally provide increased body, less clarity, and are better suited to more chocolate forward flavours and darker roasts. Again, those are generalizations and burr design and the industry as a whole are constantly evolving! But if you wanted a general rule of thumb as a starting point I would use that, and think most of my peers would agree! Welcome to the party!
Biggest change is the COFFEE being used as burrs aren't going to offer a night/day difference! Main thing I've noticed with conicals is seemingly better (heavier) texture with espresso, but not that much different than 'traditional' flats. I won't buy into the ridiculous bullshit burr fad with the focus being on 'modern' as when you add clarity/flavor separation to espresso you end up with thin, boring garbage trying to emulate espresso.
The dual burr idea is really cool. At first I was a little skeptical because I thought you would have to worry about alignment every time you swapped them out, but it looks like Niche has designed around that and has offered a modular burr system that you can just drop in and start grinding. The simplicity and ease of that blows my mind, especially after seeing tons of posts regarding alignment and clogging issues when it comes to the DF83. Niche has a winner here, and I'll definitely be picking one up as soon as I save some money. Making a burr swap that easy is just awesome. The Duo will be such a nice upgrade over my Baratza Sette 270 and Encore combo that I have going on right now.
I have a Niche Zero and it looks great and works great for Profitech 600. I also use it for filter coffee but that’s not ideal because I grind 65-70 grams at a time, so that’s 3 hopper filled. The Niche Duo doesn’t really seem like a practical solution. Switching burr kits so it will perform exceptionally well is interesting, but the trade off seems impractical for someone who makes filter coffee 6-7 times a week and espresso 2-3 days a week. What I really need is probably to just get a separate grinder for filter coffee. Any thoughts on what I should consider? Great reviews, by the way.
Great video and review. I won't be getting it as I'm EU based and importing the Niche is quite expensive and cumbersome. I wish Niche would be more "EU friendly" and deduce VAT or even shipping it within EU.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Indeed! I even wrote to their support (more than once) complaining about this issue. It easily makes each grinder 20% more expensive. I might just to with the DF64V when the time comes for an upgrade. Thanks for your reply.
Would be great to test if the filter burr's actually would make a decent espresso and vice versa. - just to understand how much a need for the swap there actually are. It sure look like they have made a really nice work flow to change them though.
I tried. They’re not really useable. This is due to the design of the burr itself, tightening the grinder down extra doesn’t help. You “can” do that but it still basically gushes out
@@marioneto50 yeah I’m wondering that, too. Like can the espresso burrs make as good or better filter coffee than the Niche Zero? If so, you could at least allow yourself to be “lazy” occasionally.
May be they could sell one without any burrs at a good price, then you could have two, one for each burr set, rather than having two at a great cost and having 4 sets of burrs. If not it looks like DF83 may be the best choice. Great review👏👍🇬🇧😎
With how much noise there has been about this I would be shocked if Niche is not at least considering other configuration options besides two burrs. Though if I was in their shoes ai would probably do single burr configs over no-burr options. Time will tell I guess but a lot of people are asking for it! Workflow, fit and finish, and user experience the Niche wins for me. DF83 wins on price and opportunity for customization
Nice video, niche have definitely put a spanner in the works there. I currently have the zero and enjoy it for espresso but not so much for filter. I have backed the timemore 78S but this has definitely got me thinking, would be interesting to see the duo compared to the 78s or the DF83.
I have a DF83 but not the timemore - I agree, this is the shootout. Personally I far prefer the polish of the Duo over the DF83, but it’s also more expensive and not everyone will love the burr options
@@DaddyGotCoffee Have you tried SSP burrs in the DF83? Here in the USA, that setup (with the SSPs installed, calibrated, and aligned via the marker/foil method) costs almost exactly the same as a niche duo (before any import duties/fees on the duo). If you can get your hands on an 078S, early backers like myself will be paying less than half this amount for them ($500 USD including shipping/import fees etc)
@@Zirassi yeah this is why I made sure to state the price in pounds and explicitly state it only ships from the UK. The cost factor definitely plays in depending on your geography. I haven’t tried the ssp in the df83 (yet) or the timemore, although I would love to - my channel isn’t generating meaningful income at this point so I need to be careful with the spends. I will say when it comes to workflow and counter appeal, it’s comparing apples and oranges between the Niche and DF83, so that’s a factor as well imo!
@@DaddyGotCoffee I don't disagree with you regarding workflow- the DF grinders ar notorious for poorly designed exit chutes and declumper issues. I haven't been a fan of any mazzer burrs thus far (I favor clarity and lighter roasts), but I've only tried them in high rpm commercial-style grinders. Maybe the niche avoids some regrinding/fines production via its design and low rpm- thus my interest in comparisons. I hopefully timemore and a DF dealer send you grinders too :)
How do the espresso burrs do with filter, and vice versa? What’s the incremental bump of swapping the burrs for each brew method? I can def imagine being on an espresso kick but wanting to mix in a filter now and then, but being too lazy or in a rush to swap burrs when I know I’m pulling an espresso the next morning.
I would not reccomend using the espresso burrs for filter. Getting anything drinkable is next to impossible. Filter coffee on the espresso burrs is…. Doable… but, I’ve also said this in other comments as well, once you drink the coffee through the filter burrs and it’s literally perfect it’s hard to settle for less. Possible though. At least no re-zeroing is needed for burr changes.
Great review! I just purchased a grinder (I wasn’t aware the Duo was coming out) so I’m not in the market anymore but this looks like a fantastic grinder for the money. I like the idea of having two purpose-built sets of burrs, especially if you drink espresso and filter coffee. The grinder I purchased, an Olympia Express Moca SD, has next to zero reviews. I love the Moca SD but I’m no expert and I would love to see you review it.
@@DaddyGotCoffee the Cremina and the Maximatic both look really nice. Now that I’ve seen the quality of the Moca SD first hand I bet their espresso machines are also top notch
So I have use an Encore with the M2 burr upgrade...I predominantly brew with a Chemex 98% of the time. I often wonder about the point of diminishing returns with grinders. I love new gear but I don't wanna drop that kind of dough....maybe someday.
Diminishing returns is DEFINITELY a consideration when it comes to grinders. And I think at what point the returns become diminishing vary on the person and their preferences!
I'm 63 retired I've just upped my coffee game love espresso, cappuccino. Got sick of paying for ok coffee. So I went down the rabbit whole as much as I could before my wife's alarm bell went off. Bought a Gaggia classic pro and a Silvia Rocky grinder. I love that grinder but after 8 months I want a single dose I only make espresso. The two burrs makes complete sense too me. Just my opinion I'm thinking of purchasing one myself. What else should I look at in its range?
I feel like I'm in a strange place, but maybe I represent a larger group of consumers than I realize - I own a Niche, and have been searching for the best "bang for buck" FLAT BURR grinder upgrade that will: 1 - top priority? Boost my filter game. When I hear that the Ode 2 w/SSP or the DF64 w/ SSP outperform my Niche Zero for high clarity, I feel stuck. It seems the marginal improvements of adding another $600+ grinder to my espresso bar for just a bit better filter coffee is insane. BUT I'm not about to break the bank for a $2000 setup. 2 - I've owned the Zero for a while now. If I'm going to drop $1,000+ on a new primary grinder, it dang well better drastically improve my espresso game as well! Again, for sweet, acidic, clarity-focused espresso. In short, the Niche Zero is still a no-brainer bang for buck grinder. My life is so simple and delicious because of it. So if I am going to commit to buying the Niche Duo (and yeah, as a fanboy I am fighting the upgraditis hard), then it better be the best $1100 upgrade on the market. Thoughts? PS - THANK YOU for getting a real review up in public. It's been a rough two weeks out here 😅
Amazing! Real talk coming up. 1. If you want to boost your filter game the Duo will definitely do it, but you also need something for espresso. You’re likely not gonna want to be switching burrs daily or more… if we’re being realistic. And.. most of us would take a hefty ribbing AT BEST from our partners for having a Duo + Zero on the counter. If I was you I would consider a hand grinder if upping your filter game from the zero is your top priority without spending a mint. Low investment, you could always sell it, way lighter footprint financially. I have lots of powered grinders and I still often hand grind for pour over. 2. Dramatically improve is very subjective depending on taste. I feel like a lot of people (even us content creators) are guilty of assuming our taste preferences are best. If you trend toward medium- lighter espressos you will almost certainly enjoy the duo more. But if you trend toward medium-medium/dark you may very well enjoy the zero more. Based on “sweet, acidic, clarity focused” I would say the duo is the “clear” choice and would indeed be a dramatic shift but you still have the filter conundrum as in point 1. I wish I could say “just buy it!” But even at this price point there are compromises you’ll want to be informed about and weigh before jumping one way or the other. Hope that helps! Feel free to follow up!
@@DaddyGotCoffee what a great response, thank you. I'm digging through your profile, disappointed at the lack of discord and patreon... your growing fanbase needs a place to nerd out and distract you even more from your day-to-day! I have an Aergrind by Knock, and used to grind for aeropress at the office. Two years in and man, I'm done hand grinding. Coupled with the fact that all manual grinders are conical, I think I have to accept that the allure of "flat burr profile" is just very strong. Do you find there's a nice hand grinder that really beats out the Zero for light roasted beans brewing for transparency of flavor over body? Probably the most thorough response I've seen from a content creator... Tough love though, and it's appreciated! Funny enough, my workweek is mostly filter and my weekends are espresso time - not all of us get to WFH anymore! So only swapping burrs on Mondays and Fridays? Maybe I'm the target audience for this grinder. And just wait until I cave, set the Duo on my home espresso bar, and bring the NZ to work to pull shots on my 5 year old Breville Infuser (BDB at home)! Anyways, here's the line I see myself (and maybe many other NZ owners) drawing - I'll pay $500 or so for a dedicated filter grinder if it opens the door for a wonderful new world of clarity and transparency compares to the Zero... but no more!! Now, if I can step into that world for both espresso and filter, in a way that feels "different" enough from the NZ, I'm willing to blow $900-$1200 on that upgrade. Now go put those kids to bed and start scripting that DF83 v Duo review video 🤣
Looks good. However, I'm not in the market at the moment. The duo is a bit of a novelty in my eyes, considering my needs are perfectly fulfilled by the OG Niche Zero and fellowe ode V2. Nice Product, sure they will not be able to make enough to keep all my fellow coffee crazies satiated, and thats just fine by me! The design language was beautiful 5 years ago and remains to be so today, at least in my opinion! 👏👏👏 Great Video Buddy!
Luis, this is my consideration! How much of an upgrade is the Ode v2 when compared to the Zero for filter brew? It seems like the Ode v2 plus SSP may be the best value for money in terms of high clarity filter brews, but is it really that much better than the zero? Please help 😂
Great review and the video production on this is insane. But I am interested in how this will compare to the 078s burr that is supposed to be top-notch for filter and espresso.
@Daddy Got Coffee you know what it will do for your channel if you're the first comparison video of this pair on UA-cam! Let's goooo!!! 😂 Also, I know you have the DF83. Would you say the mazzer burrs create a significantly cleaner / higher clarity cup profile than the stock DF83 burrs? Asking for both filter and espresso. I'm crossing my fingers that the Niche Duo is every bit that $300 better than stock DF83. Or, for the equivalent price, higher uniformity and better performance than the DF83+SSP Thoughts?? BTW yes, you just got a new like and sub 😁🤣
whatever next video you make, please dont make me feel bad for not waiting for Duo. I just got my zero as a Christmas gift and i'm loving it. lol. Although i know i would not want to deal with swapping out burrs...so i guess i'm coming back for the next video
Part of my goal here was reinforcing the value of the zero. Six years later and people have STILL been hunting for the Niche ZERO killer. It’s a fantastic grinder - feel good about it!!
@@DaddyGotCoffee do you have a video on grind size guide for niche? i'm still working on dialing in and i'm finding myself going way beyond the coarse point for french press....feels like i'm doing something wrong
are the difference in the burrs that big of a deal? I drink primarily french press with an occasional espreso. Should I be concerned with changing burrs?
The filter burrs can absolutely not do espresso. You could probably get away with doing French press using the espresso burrs, but you would definitely get higher quality with the filter burrs.
So whenever I get asked a question like this I’ll always be the first to say that it’s a highly subjective decision based on a lot of factors, and my answer may not be the same as yours and that doesn’t mean either answer is wrong. I should probably release a full video on this because it is pretty nuanced. As far as burrs go, it’s going to be a preference thing. I did like the cup from both sets, although I prefer the mazzer slightly over the stock all around burr of the DF83. The Niche has the DF83 beat on overall polish and workflow, but the DF83 has the Niche beat on price, especially in North America. The DF83 probably provides a better platform if you are into heavy modding. I think design language wise some will prefer Niche while others will prefer the Turin. So I would weigh all those factors and make a judgment were I in your shoes. For me, personally, if I was only choosing between those two grinders I would probably save the extra and buy a niche. I like the cup slightly better (stock configuration) and what husband wants to spend hundreds of dollars on something their partner will complain about forever? Could I upgrade the burr on the DF83 for the same cash? Sure. Would that make my wife like it any more or smooth out its workflow at all? No. Sorry for the rambling answer but I really don’t like to say things like “this is the absolute right answer and anyone who disagrees with me is dumb”. Different strokes! Buy informed but buy what you want. Even if it’s more and you have the money 🤷♂️ It’s all good.
This is such a great review! I have watched your review of the Fiorenzato Allground Sense grinder but now after watching this review, I can’t decide. Which one do you recommend more?
NoZenith, the market has been flooded with grinders and reviewers since the Niche Zero originally launched. Listen, the Zero was a present to commemorate the birth of my first son. It has seen me through years of enjoying some of the best roasted coffee on offering. Espresso and filter, aeropress, you name it. Filter out the noise. The Niche Zero is an absolute luxury item, and you are in such an amazing place to feel you can splurge on one. Don't let comparison and upgraditis fool you - the Zero will give you simplicity and delicious coffee for years.
@Christopher Buchanan thank you for your response and point of view. I struggle to justify the $$ for the Zero as an Indulgence... and the Duo is kinda twice the $$$$. I would live the lack of concerted effort and that would be the luxury for me. I like moka pot but don't make time for it in the morning. I want to pair the grinder with a Breville Bambino Plus for the ultimate (at least seemingly) ease/ simplistic luxury for the budget (yet have the flexibility to grind for other methods such as pour-over for company or some other kind of batch brew like a big French press or my 6 cup moka pot for Irish coffees with company) I am pretty sure there is no further UA-cam content on the Niche Zero that I haven't absorbed at this point (multiple times in some cases). I have a Hario skerton, secondhand ceramic grinder, that had been modified to take an electric drill before I got it but no longer is set up for that so it's not exactly great haha. Oftentimes I just buy pre-ground Supermarket coffee to put in my Moka pot and forget how good coffee can be until I get a good shot from a nice cafe that charges $8 and it's AMAZING. If I can get EVEN halfway there and not have to stay in the room or fear getting distracted a couple minutes too long therefore overheating my Moka pot, then having to deal with the mess of the hot moka pot after scorching the coffee and wasting my efforts trying to make something a little more special... I'd be pretty happy. ( I am not a patient person, but like really potent, medium roast coffee, with and without dairy or oat milk).
@@NoZenith man if you ever moved from a skerton to a zero your world would be rocked. Especially if you are primarily espresso and only occasionally filter. I agree with the other comment or here - the zero is a great grinder, you could absolutely have a fantastic years long experience with it!
Antonio, I'm jealous! Now that you can compare side by side, is the Niche Zero truly that muddy and bland, with harsh astringency, for filter brews when compared against the EG-1? Which burrs are you rocking on that thing? I gotta get off UA-cam, my upgraditis is flaring up again....
The feed rate is slower than higher rpm grinders on espresso but that’s about the only meaningful difference. The coffee tastes great and the grind is fluffy and consistent. I’ve done everything I can short of throwing in rocks to stall the grinder and haven’t been able to!
I’ve read that the Zero is really easy to dial in due to the larger particle distribution. Is this as easy? I like the idea of a lazy dial in the morning and prefer savory, chocolatey shots, but it’d be cool to have an awesome filter grinder for my wife’s cold brew and pour overs.
It is easy, but not as easy as the zero. If chocolately espresso is your thing you'd be more than happy with the zero - that's it's jam! It doesn't shine on pour over, but it can do them and can do cold brew grind as well. The duo will do them better but if it's an occasional thing I'm not sure the added performance would be worth the cost. And changing the burrs to filter on the duo is not the type of thing you want to be doing every day.
Great video! Really enjoy your reviews, and love the “dad mode” perspective. Curious about the noise level of the duo vs the zero? I really miss the mellow soft tone of the zero vs my df64, wondering if it has been retained? Also, grind speed for espresso? I think the zero used to take 16-20 sec for 18g espresso grind, how is this one?
On espresso it’s almost exactly the same as the Zero, at least to me. Filter is a little louder and faster. Not nearly as loud/shrill as a DF83 on account of the lower RPM
A really interesting test IMO: grind for espresso on the filter burrs and for filter in the espresso ones. Is the resulting coffee good for those lazy days when you don’t want to change the burrs but want a different brew method?
Seconded on Jake’s comment. Espresso on filter is a no-go. Filter on espresso is technically possible but after using the filter burrs you’ll be grimacing the whole time you’re drinking that coffee
Great video! Damn is the home barista getting spoiled… so many grinders to compare now it’s insane! I’d love to see how this stacks up against the df83, timemore 078 & 78s and more I’ve forgotten to name!
Lots of people do RDT, I don’t. I find it doesn’t make any difference in the amount of retention on the Duo and personally I don’t love the idea of moistening my beans before they hit the burrs. Some would certainly disagree with me. I think Niche recommends against a direct spray and says if you are going to do RDT to moisten a stirring element and stir the beans before grinding
"Putting my dad hat" will be me every morning. I find the need to change burrs at the moment when I need caffeine the most very inconvenient. I rather go with Eureka or the new Sculptor 078S.
I feel like the best use case for this is for someone who will leave in one of the burr sets “most” of the time as the grinders primary use. I mean I have several nice powered hand grinders to choose from that will do both espresso and filter and half the time I still hand grind because I can’t be bothered to adjust the grinder off of my espresso setting. I’m sure some people with cash to spare who love this grinder will buy two 🤷♂️ different strokes for different folks!
what's the story off this wrist tattoo? and is it HESED Or HESER? I can't figure it out if the last letter is Reysh OR Daled. (sorry for the sideway and my curiosity)
Many thanks for the great review. What would be your verdict comparing the flat burrs from the duo vs the conical burrs from the zero? Which are mor suitable for dark roast espresso?
I used the Ascaso Baby T for the vast majority of my testing, as well as several versions of the flair machines. It would certainly do French press, but you could almost definitely get away with a more affordable grinder if that is your primary use!
@@steverealtyandfinance8171 a lot of this comes down to budget. But even the fellow ode and opus, or the baratza encore will do a good French press. If you want to seriously up the budget, pick a number and the coffee will only get better. Be careful though, the sky is the limit there 🤣
What is a good grind setting to start with for espresso? …. And then when you change to pour overs (I’ve never tried as I only have done espresso with my current zero) Thank you for your incredible videos!!!!
Question: Is there less, equal, or greater fines production with the duo than the zero? I saw an analysis of the fines on the zero that had significantly greater production than a Turin DF64, which worries me from a clarity standpoint.
@@liord2 got ya! I misunderstood what you were asking. For me, variable rpm is nice but not a dealbreaker. Once I get things where I like them I’ll often tend to leave them alone anyway. With both the zero and the duo, niche has shaved off features for the sake of simplicity. The stock RPM makes great espresso, so I don’t really miss being able to adjust it! At a significantly higher price it’s something I would start to look for
How does the Duo compare to the Fiorenzato All Ground you previously reviewed? You raved about the All Ground's ability to both ends of the grind spectrum, and it looks a lot simpler to "switch" between different styles. Obviously the single-dose vs hopper style is different but assuming the hopper isn't a deal-breaker, how do they compare in terms of grind and brew quality across different coffee styles?
These are both great grinders that provide great cups. I’m not sure I could even put one over the other in any kind of objective way. I’ve actually had some coffees on filter and espresso that I preferred on the fiorenzato and others I preferred on the niche. On a personal note, I generally prefer single dosing workflow because I change beans A LOT. I often have several on the go at any given time. That puts me in the direction of the niche grind and brew quality aside, but that won’t be true for everyone. One thing I don’t love about hopper style all around grinders of any kind is the need to purge between setting changes. This wastes way more coffee than a single dosing grinder and is also needed on the Fiorenzato. But.. you need to balance that against the obvious inconvenience of changing burrs on the duo. I don’t really see the duo as an all in one in the conventional sense. I certainly won’t be changing burrs daily on it. But on the flip side, when the fiorenzato is on my bar I still often hand grind for filter because I can’t be bothered to purge or move off of my espresso setting 😂🤷♂️
I am new to the coffee world and ordered my Niche Zero about 1 week before they released (early april) the Duo. Bad timing I guess ! Not sure if I like the Niche Zero for poor over yet, but I think most of the problems I have are user-related for now. And I would prioritize Espresso vs Poor over, so it would not really make sense to keep the Zero for espresso and the Duo with brew burrs for poor over...
I wonder even if using a.expresso flat burr for filter coffee on the Niche duo would the quality still taste better in comparison to any other flat bur out there.
Thanks for this video, very useful and interesting. For espresso how does the DUO compare with the DF83, in terms of taste/flavour of the beverage. Is one "better" than the other?
I’d have to say this one is largely down to preference. In terms of out of the box, I prefer the single purpose mazzers to the all around burr in the df83, some would almost certainly swing the other way on that. The niche also has the edge on overall polish and workflow, while the DF83 is probably a better platform for modding if you’re into that!
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks. From the videos I've seen for both, I'm not surprised that you say "down to preference", and that my asking "is one better?" was a big ask. Thanks again.
But how is filter on the espresso burrs? I have a niche zero and an ode with SSP multipurpose that I use for espresso and filter respectively. I’m very happy with the quality I get from both, but want to consolidate into one grinder. Are the Duo espresso burrs good for fairly finely ground filter?
I’m going to say espresso with the filter burrs, while technically possible under certain conditions, is not at all workable under any kind of real-world use case. You can do filter with the espresso burr, but it pales in comparison to filter using the filter burr
Hey guys, I ordered the duo and am having second thoughts. I have a question that people seem to be avoiding to answer. Putting aside work flow, aesthetics, and price, I really want to know the best flat bur grinder. I simply want to know what makes the best balanced espresso. I’m considering either the niche duo or the Lagom P64 (that’s my price max). Perhaps there’s others in the run for that price range, but I’d love input. Any help is much appreciated!
Both are great grinders but in a different league price wise. I am seeing more and more people opting for the zerno over the p64, although I have used neither. My experience with the Duo has been great!
@@waleed0323 the Df83 and Timemore 078 are the main competitors to the Niche right now. So far, I’m preferring the Duo but it’s worth watching a couple shootout videos on these grinders!
Great video! Thanks for this review. I was actually looking to upgrade my Eureka Mignon Specialita to a Niche Zero but then I saw this new Duo machine and got me thinking what should I go for. Any advice in this case? (I am only doing espresso, not really a fan at the moment of filter coffee).
Great question - and the zero may very well do everything you need if you had been eying that. Have you ever tried a flat burr grinder? If not, do you prefer medium-to-light roasts or medium-to-dark roasts?
@@DaddyGotCoffee I haven't actually. The Eureka was my very first grinder :) in terms of roasts, I am more on the medium to light ones. Prob for this the Duo would do a better job I think?
@@andreicozma Most would probabaly say the Duo would suit better with flat burrs for lights but some of it is down to preference as well. If the extra cost is not a dealbreaker for you, you would definitely be happy with it. I do have comparison videos coming as well but anything besides a niche is a hard sell with my wife lol.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Eureka Mignon Specialita has 55 mm flats - great value for money; the jump to the DUO may be worth it for the single dosing more than flavor profile.
Full disclosure, I still need to get hands on with a P64, so I can’t speak into this with first hand experience. P64 is variable rpm and 64mm, so that’s one difference. It’s also slightly (very) less retention and a LOT more rxpensive
Any idea why Niche recommends wearing gloves when handling the burrs, so as not to touch them with our bare hands? This seems strange to me. Do they perhaps have some special coating, which is somehow sensitive to grease/oils from our hands, or something like that? I haven't seen this recommendation anywhere else, not even for the Niche Zero for that matter. What's so special about these particular burrs that they must not be touched?
They would say it’s to prevent oxidation from super greasy sweaty hands. The burrs are not coated so are more prone to oxidation than coated titanium for example. But… I don’t use them and have never had any issue. I also try and not over handle the burrs. They also reccomend this for the uncoated mazzer burr in the zero 🤷♂️ I think it’s really only a possible issue for super sweaters
Great question - first I’ll say I really bounce around with grinders. I feel like I’m always swapping them around for different taste experiences. The biggest factor in day to day use between the Fiorenzato allground and the Duo is hopper/single dose workflow. Since I switch up beans even several times a day I almost always have a single dosing grinder on hand. But, I’ll also often have a hopper grinder loaded up - it just commits you to however many beans you put in the hopper. The burrs in each are great and the workflow is good between the two. I think on the whole though I tend to lean more toward single dosing grinders. I haven’t used a hopper style grinder I enjoy more than the Fiorenzato.
@@bolerkai I think the chances of that are basically nil. The burrs in the zero are technically “all around” and CAN do filter, it’s just that the filter specific burrs in the duo do it much better
Under the current model, yes. Or, you could look at it as a spare of each. Niche has already and I’m sure will continue to get feedback from people wanting to buy with one burr option
The design of the filter burr really prevents it from moving into espresso territory in any kind of useful way. You CAN technically make filter with the espresso burr, but once I had tasted the coffee using the filter burr, I def wanted to switch
@@chrisdturner I’m guessing you won’t be the only person to feel this way! It seems like it’s really designed to have one burr in “most” of the time. I’m sure there will be some people who get two or an all purpose burr for this reason!
Everyone has biases, I never claimed to be unbiased, and I will never claim this. As soon as anyone expresses an opinion or conclusion of any kind, there is bias at play. I have clearly disclosed everything that may be of concern to a viewer. If my review is not for you as a result, all good! ✌️
Having two wouldn't be strange at all, especially considering the price of some of the other grinders on the market. Neat. Now open a EU warehouse Niche.
*UPDATE* Niche has listened to your feedback and added both SINGLE BURR configurations for the Duo AND adjusted the dual burr price outside of the UK, resulting in a lower price for international customers. (This is also true for the zero!)
I have to give kudos here to Niche for listening to the mass amount of customer feedback - a huge amount of comments on this video and others were related to these two things. If you've ever wondered if companies listen to your feedback, they clearly have in this case! Thanks for voicing your opinion and thanks to Niche for listening!
Being able to swap burrs is neat, but I already know that Im not going to bother once I'm past the honeymoon phase. Two burr sets may make sense for some people but, in practice, I think that this is a very small group, even within the niche (no pun intended) market that is weird coffee people. Sell the grinder at a lower price with a choice of either burr set. Allow those that want the other set the option to add it on before checkout. The mandatory inclusion of both sets hurts the value proposition and is wasteful, IMO.
This is the best solution imo. I'd be very interested in this grinder, but I don't own an espresso machine and don't care to, so I'd feel like I'm basically wasting an expensive set of burrs for nothing.
A lot have people have asked, and I’m sure will continue to ask for this. This is also basically the only meaningful “con” I found with the grinder as well, although I really see it more as a compromise than straight negative. Time will tell if Niche changes their tune here - they’ve always definitely done their own thing, sometimes to the chagrin of the market.
True, they do include two relatively cheap Mazzer burrs I believe, would be cool if you can easily swap out for some higher end burrs with very different flavour profiles. I have two upper burr carriers for the Lagom P64 and thought about using the 2nd one for that purpose, but still needs the bottom burr bolts removed so it's a little easier but not quite as easy as swapping on the Niche Duo. They could have just included the extra burr carrier and allowed you to buy a 2nd burr set IF you wanted (or have it included for an extra cost).
I can see people who like the original Niche Zero, the looks / workflow wanting to get this, but I think value wise there are better options these days.
I see your point but the goal of this grinder is to not make any compromises and having an high end grinder that can only grind for one single purpose isn't ideal and makes other grinders more appealing.
However I would be happy if a second unit could be bought separately of its burrs so you can have the best of both worlds simultaneously with the exact same workflow. Could be pretty usefull for small coffee shops.
@@Saucisse_Praxis There's always a compromise. Without even touching subjective performance aspects, the Duo was designed, from the ground up, as a compromise for the person that would trade convenience and workflow for not having to purchase and accommodate a second grinder on their countertop. As much as people tout the Niche workflow, it's silly not to acknowledge that the Duo has horrible espresso workflow when the filter burrs are installed, and vice versa.
Great video, everything from the editing to the presentation speaks quality!
As for the grinder: I love how people who like the Niche tend to gloss over/forgive/find excuses for whatever problem/cons the Niche has, a courtesy they DO NOT extend to any other grinder, especially those marketed as a direct competitor. I also love how people who don't like the Niche behave EXACTLY the same. It truly is the Apple Inc. of the grinder world, you either LOVE it or Hate it, with not much in between.
It’s really funny and true. People tend to either vehemently love or loathe the Niche. My wife loves the design language. It’s ok but not totally my style. They have workflow nailed in the price range though. Definitely not a “perfect” grinder, but is there one??
I really appreciate how transparent you are when you do reviews. It gives me the confidence that I can trust your insight.
Aw man. This is so encouraging, thank you! I always try and be transparent but concise. I like having it on the table plainly stated. Thanks for saying so.
Great review!! I have a Niche grinder paired with La Marzocco Mirca since I like medium to darker roast with dark chocolate notes I will not be getting the DUO. My daily espresso of choice is Blue Bottle "Hayes Valley" which is the darkest roast BB makes. Upgrading to DUO would be more ideal for coffee drinkers that prefer lighter roasts but for me I am happy with flavor notes from my Niche.
Yeah it’s really nice to see more full converse now across the Niche line!
Interesting review there I think the idea of the two Duos is a great idea, for the price of 1 Lagom P64 with SSP burrs you can have two Duos. I would have one Black and one White to easily tell which is which first thing in the morning, it means that the legendary easy workflow of the Niche is still there and the added bonus of a spare set of burrs for each machine.
Like your salt & pepper 😂 love it! One can dream!
Perhaps this is possible in the UK, but since Niche appears to be charging (and keeping the proceeds from?) UK VAT to international customers, even just one niche duo can cost almost as much as a P64 with SSP's in some countries. I'm in the USA, and before any import dutues (not sure if they apply/how much they would be), I believe a Duo would cost me ~$1070 USD. That's almost exactly what I would pay for a DF83 V2 with SSP burrs installed, calibrated, and aligned (via the marker/foil method). That's also only $280 less than what I just paid for a Zerno Z1 with custom blind SSP MPs. I've heard folks in the EU that have paid that ~$1070 say that they are expecting to have to pay another ~$400 USD when their grinder arrives (between EU Vat and import costs). I don't think those people are going to consider 2 Duos.
Some will thing this is ridiculous but it’s a valid point if you have the budget and like the Niche 🤷♂️ if you can justify it and want to… go for it!
@@Zirassi, it looks like the opposite to me. They're priced correctly from an international market perspective, and just eating the VAT loss in the UK.
@@christopherbuchanan5914 I suppose it's possible they're just paying the tax themselves on behalf of UK customers, but it changes nothing about the real world cost to acquire the grinder outside the UK. Roughly $1500 USD puts it in competition with the best 64mm grinders on the market, at 3 time the price of the 078S (which actually has more burr surface area btw). It would be interesting to ask Niche whether they're paying vat on behalf of UK customers or charging UK vat to international customers, but either way, it didn't take long for someone to presume the latter and post to r/espresso complaining about it.
If you had to pay full price for it, would you? It'd be over 1400 CAD. Assuming no import tax.
To be totally transparent, if I was going to use my own money, I would probably save up a lot more and buy a P100 instead. But… most people here would not be in that camp. I try and help people see the positives and negatives, as well as where the compromises have been made, then make their own judgment on how to spend their money. I will say that even at 1400, the Niche is a strong contender in our house. The workflow is tops and it’s the only grinder my wife actually likes. Thanks for asking lance
@@DaddyGotCoffee Yeah that makes a lot of sense. But…what if the moon was made out of spare ribs? Would you eat it then?
@Lance What other 83mm, high quality grinders exist at the $1k price point?
@Andrew Caldwell zerno beats this. I think I'd take 2x df83s over one of this. Could buy 2 or 3 timemore sculptors for one of this. Acaia orbit is around this price.
@@LanceHedrick Interesting. Have you tested the Niche Duo directly against all of these? How can Zerno beat the Niche Duo if the Zerno isn't available yet? I haven't used either the Duo or DF83, but the DF83 definitely looks cheaper/uglier (although that doesn't have to do with performance, you still have to look at it on your counter). The Scupltor definitely seems compelling, but the Duo workflow seems better for espresso? Love the Acaia but also not really available, not 83mm, and 35% more...suffice to say, I'm going to stick with my Mignon XL for espresso 🙂
I love the idea of having two burrs to get around the "all-in-one problem" you touched on in the video. And it's also great that they're both included at the grinder's base price rather than being an optional additional purchase.
That said, I know that with how I structure my coffee work flow, I'd swap them in an out the first few times and then get very fed up with the process. My decision between espresso and filter is often in the moment and following the path of least resistance so I'd probably end up sticking to only filter or only espresso for a while until I decide to swap the burrs out to the other set. At which point I'd just stick with that form of coffee for some time.
And that's not really what I'm looking for in an all in one. At that point I might as well get something like an Ode for filter and then a second hand espresso only grinder to sit along side it for a similar total price to the Niche Duo.
I think the primary use for this grinder will be with one “primary” set of burrs and the other for occasional use. I can’t imagine people doing this swap every day which is why I focused in on how this is much less convenient than the Zero or other grinders. It seems like niche is targeting a higher price point with this grinder and the higher you go, the more likely that someone will supplement with a secondary grinder. I have no doubt that some people will buy two of these, although it won’t be the majority
Best for people who like the option to make best of two kinds of coffees.
And while saving counter space.
Also! Bro you have probably the best videos and production value when it comes to the coffee world. Super fun and educational to watch and I truly feel well informed. Thank you for that.
Ah man… 🥹 Thank you! That’s high praise!
Awesome video! Would love to see a comparison between the zero and the duo.
Thank you! I’ll put it on the list!
Ditto.
I was looking for a flat burr grinder for pourovers and thought I had settled on an Ode 2 before the Duo came out. For now, I'm using the Zero for espresso and the Duo for pourovers. I can always put in the Duo espresso burrs when I do an espresso meetup or machine comparisons.
to eject the little retention remaining in the NZ, I went to the pharmacy to get a small enema bulb that I cut out. After a grinding, I lift the lid, put the cut side towards the millstones and press two or three times which is more than enough! And it really doesn't cost much.
All I can imagine is me explaining this at the checkout 🤣 “no, really… it’s just for my coffee grinder… you know for the.. retention.. 😅” 😂😂💀💀
@@DaddyGotCoffee 🤣
Ooohhh after looking around i found a UA-cam vid of his old 3D printed version. They are a more finished product made out of silicone now.
://ua-cam.com/users/shortsXyDRJAOyzTA?feature=share
I really wanted to get the Duo as I have used the zero for about 3 years and loved it, I unfortunately now live in a country in which they do not ship the Duo to. I spend time mostly in Thailand but visit the US often, I wanted one for Thailand. I went to order the grinder and found out that I cannot get a Euro version shipped to the US to use it in Thailand so unfortunately I am out of luck. I am sure they will be very successful with the Duo and wish them the best.
Ah man! Brutal! My only thought is if you know someone in the UK EU you could have it shipped to, then courier it to yourself?
@@DaddyGotCoffee I thought of that too but unfortunately I do not know anyone in those areas. Such is life.
The obvious comparison is to the DF83, especially since you already have one. I’d love to hear about your thoughts size, workflow, retention (especially if you have the plasma generator in the v2 DF83), noise, etc.
I don’t have a V2 but this comparison is on my list!
Be good to see a comparison of espresso with each burr and a filter with each burr.
I might make a couple shorts of this, although generally I wouldn’t recommend it. Espresso on the filter burr is not really practically doable because of the burr design. Filter on the espresso burr is drinkable, some may even say good, but a shadow of what the filter burr will deliver
@@DaddyGotCoffee I know someone makes a third party flat burr for the zero. Might be with replacing the original burr to cover both. Or get the Duo.
Great review. I feel like I do not know enough about the differences in the burrs. You gave a quick overview in the end but I would love to see a taste comparison. Great review! Thanks.
This is definitely a subject that you can deep dive on in a whole pile of ways. I feel like i could make a 3 hour video about just this! Always a challenge to balance brevity with detail. Are you curious about the taste comparison between the two included burrs? or between these burrs and other, aftermarket burr options?
The filter burrs are basically unusable for espresso. When comparing filter cups when using both the espresso and filter burrs, they can both technically make filter, but the espresso burrs have a muddier flavor with hints of unpleasant bitterness and texture. If that doesn't answer your question let me know and I will try to answer in more detail!
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks a lot for the response! Yes, I am def interested in what you mentioned, good to now. I am also uncertain about conical vs flat burrs in general. I love the original Niche and it has conical burrs, so I am interested in how the espresso will taste from the flat burrs compared to the original conical burrs. Is there information on that out there? Thanks!
If you have a Breville machine with the little rubber portafilter stopper for running the cleaning cycle, it’s a perfect hack to use it as a plunger to push out the retained grounds.
Thanks for dropping this!
I’m like you, I’d want two grinders, one for filter and the other for espresso. Would be nice if they could ship with just one chosen burr set each to bring down the overall price
So many people have been asking for this option - we’ll see if niche bends on this one or not
I picked up a 3D printed bellows for my zero from Introvermakes on Etsy last year, and swapped it for a silicon one this year. By weight, it's almost a gram each time and it looks like it would fit both the zero and duo. Before the bellows, I was worried I was going to chip the lid b/c I was using it to get that last bit out each time.
I’ve eyed those up and they look great! Fantastic to hear a positive review too
This is such a great video, well done! The transparency, practical demo, real life use case/considerations- nailed it.
I’m trying to work out if this (or honestly the niche zero too, I’ve never had a conical burr grinder) would be a big enough upgrade for my couple years old Eureka Specialita. The idea of having one grinder on my counter that is excellent at both is pretty alluring…
First, the Eureka is a great grinder and if you like it, try to avoid upgradeitis. If you’re not happy with it for some reason, what specifically are you looking for? One thing about the duo is I think 95% of users will likely leave one burr in most of the time except for occasional use. I love both burrs but even I don’t switch daily (I enjoy both filter and espresso daily). In fact, my main gripe with the duo is that it seems like no matter what burr I have loaded, I seem to find myself wishing I had the other one loaded 🤣
Thank you for all the encouragement!!!
Great review thank you for this. I will definitely buy one now haha. I will have two on my desk with my Flair 58. the price is OTT, but i know it is a david and goliath purchase. Annoyingly I wish they did a payment spread or allowed you the option to pick one burr over the other at a reduced price.
I knew there were people out there who would get two 🤣 If you want it and the price makes sense for you in comparison to the other options, I say go for it. It’s a great grinder
Man I want a duo. I have a zero and have really liked it and both grinders would just look great together on my coffee bar. Ultimately, I like having a flat and conical burr option.
Yup, totally get this. Some people will think you are crazy though 🤣
@@DaddyGotCoffee yes my wife probably thinks I'm crazy lol
I've got a NZ and I've ordered a ND for the same reason. I wouldn't be surprised if after some experimentation, I like the ND so much in both configurations that I replace the NZ with another ND. So just like the video, one for espresso and the other for V60.
I’ve seen a lot of reviews on this so far, and the one thing I am missing from all of them is how do the espresso burrs work for filter and vice versa. I like the idea of 2 burrs, but i do think i am way too lazy to do that at 3am when I’m up for work. I usually do one espresso shot, then a pour over. It will be nice on a day off and mess around. But if one set of burrs can make both espresso and filter pretty well I’d be happy about it
The espresso burrs CAN make filter, but are sorely lacking in comparison to the filter burrs. The filter burrs cannot make espresso.
Hey @Daddy got coffee,
Thanks for the vid… would love to see a comparison between the Niche Duo and the DF 83 🙏🏻
On the list!
Honestly, I hate the blower.. It causes mess on my countertop. I knock on the lid and it worked well.
That’s about all I do as well. Sometimes I don’t even do that
I've been getting mixed opinions on the flavors for flat and conical burrs. I've heard flats are better for chocolate and caramel notes while providing more clarity. Whereas conicals are better for fruit flavors and acidity and providing more body over clarity. I've also come across videos and articles stating the exact opposite.
In terms of grind consistency, I've been told flats are much more uniform and conicals create more fines and boulders.
Any input you have on this is greatly appreciated. Also, this is the first video of yours I've seen and will definitely be diving into your channel.
Hey Nicholas! Thanks for dropping by! Burrs are definitely something you can spend a lot of time deep diving on and it’s good to remember that there will be exceptions to almost every generalization about them.
That being said! Generally I would say that flats provide more clarity, less body, and depending on the burr are better suited to more fruit forward flavours and lighter roasts. Conicals generally provide increased body, less clarity, and are better suited to more chocolate forward flavours and darker roasts.
Again, those are generalizations and burr design and the industry as a whole are constantly evolving! But if you wanted a general rule of thumb as a starting point I would use that, and think most of my peers would agree! Welcome to the party!
Biggest change is the COFFEE being used as burrs aren't going to offer a night/day difference! Main thing I've noticed with conicals is seemingly better (heavier) texture with espresso, but not that much different than 'traditional' flats. I won't buy into the ridiculous bullshit burr fad with the focus being on 'modern' as when you add clarity/flavor separation to espresso you end up with thin, boring garbage trying to emulate espresso.
The dual burr idea is really cool. At first I was a little skeptical because I thought you would have to worry about alignment every time you swapped them out, but it looks like Niche has designed around that and has offered a modular burr system that you can just drop in and start grinding. The simplicity and ease of that blows my mind, especially after seeing tons of posts regarding alignment and clogging issues when it comes to the DF83. Niche has a winner here, and I'll definitely be picking one up as soon as I save some money. Making a burr swap that easy is just awesome. The Duo will be such a nice upgrade over my Baratza Sette 270 and Encore combo that I have going on right now.
I have a the Zero and like it. I will probably pick up the Duo for espresso and leave the Zero set up for pour over.
You could always try the reverse as well and see what you like better!
I have a Niche Zero and it looks great and works great for Profitech 600. I also use it for filter coffee but that’s not ideal because I grind 65-70 grams at a time, so that’s 3 hopper filled. The Niche Duo doesn’t really seem like a practical solution. Switching burr kits so it will perform exceptionally well is interesting, but the trade off seems impractical for someone who makes filter coffee 6-7 times a week and espresso 2-3 days a week. What I really need is probably to just get a separate grinder for filter coffee. Any thoughts on what I should consider? Great reviews, by the way.
Great video and review. I won't be getting it as I'm EU based and importing the Niche is quite expensive and cumbersome. I wish Niche would be more "EU friendly" and deduce VAT or even shipping it within EU.
This is a common complaint and consideration! Exactly why I mentioned it only ships from the UK.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Indeed! I even wrote to their support (more than once) complaining about this issue. It easily makes each grinder 20% more expensive. I might just to with the DF64V when the time comes for an upgrade. Thanks for your reply.
Would be great to test if the filter burr's actually would make a decent espresso and vice versa. - just to understand how much a need for the swap there actually are. It sure look like they have made a really nice work flow to change them though.
I tried. They’re not really useable. This is due to the design of the burr itself, tightening the grinder down extra doesn’t help. You “can” do that but it still basically gushes out
How do the espresso burrs do filter coffee?
@@marioneto50 yeah I’m wondering that, too. Like can the espresso burrs make as good or better filter coffee than the Niche Zero? If so, you could at least allow yourself to be “lazy” occasionally.
May be they could sell one without any burrs at a good price, then you could have two, one for each burr set, rather than having two at a great cost and having 4 sets of burrs. If not it looks like DF83 may be the best choice. Great review👏👍🇬🇧😎
With how much noise there has been about this I would be shocked if Niche is not at least considering other configuration options besides two burrs. Though if I was in their shoes ai would probably do single burr configs over no-burr options. Time will tell I guess but a lot of people are asking for it! Workflow, fit and finish, and user experience the Niche wins for me. DF83 wins on price and opportunity for customization
Nice video, niche have definitely put a spanner in the works there. I currently have the zero and enjoy it for espresso but not so much for filter.
I have backed the timemore 78S but this has definitely got me thinking, would be interesting to see the duo compared to the 78s or the DF83.
I have a DF83 but not the timemore - I agree, this is the shootout. Personally I far prefer the polish of the Duo over the DF83, but it’s also more expensive and not everyone will love the burr options
You’ve obviously had the opportunity to taste coffee from the NICHE ZERO. NICHE DUO and DF83. How do they compare in the cup!?
@@DaddyGotCoffee Have you tried SSP burrs in the DF83? Here in the USA, that setup (with the SSPs installed, calibrated, and aligned via the marker/foil method) costs almost exactly the same as a niche duo (before any import duties/fees on the duo). If you can get your hands on an 078S, early backers like myself will be paying less than half this amount for them ($500 USD including shipping/import fees etc)
@@Zirassi yeah this is why I made sure to state the price in pounds and explicitly state it only ships from the UK. The cost factor definitely plays in depending on your geography. I haven’t tried the ssp in the df83 (yet) or the timemore, although I would love to - my channel isn’t generating meaningful income at this point so I need to be careful with the spends. I will say when it comes to workflow and counter appeal, it’s comparing apples and oranges between the Niche and DF83, so that’s a factor as well imo!
@@DaddyGotCoffee I don't disagree with you regarding workflow- the DF grinders ar notorious for poorly designed exit chutes and declumper issues. I haven't been a fan of any mazzer burrs thus far (I favor clarity and lighter roasts), but I've only tried them in high rpm commercial-style grinders. Maybe the niche avoids some regrinding/fines production via its design and low rpm- thus my interest in comparisons. I hopefully timemore and a DF dealer send you grinders too :)
How do the espresso burrs do with filter, and vice versa? What’s the incremental bump of swapping the burrs for each brew method? I can def imagine being on an espresso kick but wanting to mix in a filter now and then, but being too lazy or in a rush to swap burrs when I know I’m pulling an espresso the next morning.
I would not reccomend using the espresso burrs for filter. Getting anything drinkable is next to impossible. Filter coffee on the espresso burrs is…. Doable… but, I’ve also said this in other comments as well, once you drink the coffee through the filter burrs and it’s literally perfect it’s hard to settle for less. Possible though. At least no re-zeroing is needed for burr changes.
Great review! I just purchased a grinder (I wasn’t aware the Duo was coming out) so I’m not in the market anymore but this looks like a fantastic grinder for the money. I like the idea of having two purpose-built sets of burrs, especially if you drink espresso and filter coffee.
The grinder I purchased, an Olympia Express Moca SD, has next to zero reviews. I love the Moca SD but I’m no expert and I would love to see you review it.
I’d actually love to own a cremina one day too. Will add this to the list!
@@DaddyGotCoffee the Cremina and the Maximatic both look really nice. Now that I’ve seen the quality of the Moca SD first hand I bet their espresso machines are also top notch
So I have use an Encore with the M2 burr upgrade...I predominantly brew with a Chemex 98% of the time. I often wonder about the point of diminishing returns with grinders. I love new gear but I don't wanna drop that kind of dough....maybe someday.
Diminishing returns is DEFINITELY a consideration when it comes to grinders. And I think at what point the returns become diminishing vary on the person and their preferences!
I just love my Zero and can’t wait to put my hands on a Duo for filter.
Thank you for this review!!! Very good review BTW!!
Thank you Martin!!
I may like to see a comparison with the Eureka Oro XL, which is a 65mm burr grinder, or with the Oro Zero.
I'm 63 retired I've just upped my coffee game love espresso, cappuccino. Got sick of paying for ok coffee. So I went down the rabbit whole as much as I could before my wife's alarm bell went off. Bought a Gaggia classic pro and a Silvia Rocky grinder. I love that grinder but after 8 months I want a single dose I only make espresso. The two burrs makes complete sense too me. Just my opinion I'm thinking of purchasing one myself. What else should I look at in its range?
I feel like I'm in a strange place, but maybe I represent a larger group of consumers than I realize - I own a Niche, and have been searching for the best "bang for buck" FLAT BURR grinder upgrade that will:
1 - top priority? Boost my filter game. When I hear that the Ode 2 w/SSP or the DF64 w/ SSP outperform my Niche Zero for high clarity, I feel stuck. It seems the marginal improvements of adding another $600+ grinder to my espresso bar for just a bit better filter coffee is insane.
BUT I'm not about to break the bank for a $2000 setup.
2 - I've owned the Zero for a while now. If I'm going to drop $1,000+ on a new primary grinder, it dang well better drastically improve my espresso game as well! Again, for sweet, acidic, clarity-focused espresso.
In short, the Niche Zero is still a no-brainer bang for buck grinder. My life is so simple and delicious because of it.
So if I am going to commit to buying the Niche Duo (and yeah, as a fanboy I am fighting the upgraditis hard), then it better be the best $1100 upgrade on the market.
Thoughts?
PS - THANK YOU for getting a real review up in public. It's been a rough two weeks out here 😅
Amazing! Real talk coming up.
1. If you want to boost your filter game the Duo will definitely do it, but you also need something for espresso. You’re likely not gonna want to be switching burrs daily or more… if we’re being realistic. And.. most of us would take a hefty ribbing AT BEST from our partners for having a Duo + Zero on the counter. If I was you I would consider a hand grinder if upping your filter game from the zero is your top priority without spending a mint. Low investment, you could always sell it, way lighter footprint financially. I have lots of powered grinders and I still often hand grind for pour over.
2. Dramatically improve is very subjective depending on taste. I feel like a lot of people (even us content creators) are guilty of assuming our taste preferences are best. If you trend toward medium- lighter espressos you will almost certainly enjoy the duo more. But if you trend toward medium-medium/dark you may very well enjoy the zero more. Based on “sweet, acidic, clarity focused” I would say the duo is the “clear” choice and would indeed be a dramatic shift but you still have the filter conundrum as in point 1.
I wish I could say “just buy it!” But even at this price point there are compromises you’ll want to be informed about and weigh before jumping one way or the other. Hope that helps! Feel free to follow up!
@@DaddyGotCoffee what a great response, thank you.
I'm digging through your profile, disappointed at the lack of discord and patreon... your growing fanbase needs a place to nerd out and distract you even more from your day-to-day!
I have an Aergrind by Knock, and used to grind for aeropress at the office. Two years in and man, I'm done hand grinding. Coupled with the fact that all manual grinders are conical, I think I have to accept that the allure of "flat burr profile" is just very strong. Do you find there's a nice hand grinder that really beats out the Zero for light roasted beans brewing for transparency of flavor over body?
Probably the most thorough response I've seen from a content creator... Tough love though, and it's appreciated! Funny enough, my workweek is mostly filter and my weekends are espresso time - not all of us get to WFH anymore! So only swapping burrs on Mondays and Fridays? Maybe I'm the target audience for this grinder.
And just wait until I cave, set the Duo on my home espresso bar, and bring the NZ to work to pull shots on my 5 year old Breville Infuser (BDB at home)!
Anyways, here's the line I see myself (and maybe many other NZ owners) drawing - I'll pay $500 or so for a dedicated filter grinder if it opens the door for a wonderful new world of clarity and transparency compares to the Zero... but no more!! Now, if I can step into that world for both espresso and filter, in a way that feels "different" enough from the NZ, I'm willing to blow $900-$1200 on that upgrade.
Now go put those kids to bed and start scripting that DF83 v Duo review video 🤣
Looks good. However, I'm not in the market at the moment. The duo is a bit of a novelty in my eyes, considering my needs are perfectly fulfilled by the OG Niche Zero and fellowe ode V2. Nice Product, sure they will not be able to make enough to keep all my fellow coffee crazies satiated, and thats just fine by me! The design language was beautiful 5 years ago and remains to be so today, at least in my opinion! 👏👏👏
Great Video Buddy!
Thank you so much!!
Luis, this is my consideration!
How much of an upgrade is the Ode v2 when compared to the Zero for filter brew? It seems like the Ode v2 plus SSP may be the best value for money in terms of high clarity filter brews, but is it really that much better than the zero?
Please help 😂
can you review the eyebrow products you are using?
Hahahahaha I have intense eyebrows
Great review and the video production on this is insane. But I am interested in how this will compare to the 078s burr that is supposed to be top-notch for filter and espresso.
I’d really like to get my hands on one of these grinders
@Daddy Got Coffee you know what it will do for your channel if you're the first comparison video of this pair on UA-cam! Let's goooo!!! 😂
Also, I know you have the DF83. Would you say the mazzer burrs create a significantly cleaner / higher clarity cup profile than the stock DF83 burrs? Asking for both filter and espresso.
I'm crossing my fingers that the Niche Duo is every bit that $300 better than stock DF83. Or, for the equivalent price, higher uniformity and better performance than the DF83+SSP
Thoughts??
BTW yes, you just got a new like and sub 😁🤣
I'd like to see them offer it with either or burr set options. I just use espresso
I think a lot of people would like this! Definitely a divisive choice
You’re video made me thinking of getting one for light roasts while using my zero for more traditional espresso shots. Dammit. 😂
Sorry about that 😂
HELOO,.... Here should be a choice when buying what kind of flat burrs you want under the filter or espresso , the cost could be reduced this way
Yes I’ve seen this suggestion a lot. Currently it is not an option but who knows, with enough pressure Niche may bend on it!
@@DaddyGotCoffee it is enough that they will not have satisfactory sales
Have you tried the Duo Espresso burrs for pour over / coarser brew methods?
Correct, as @jakewalsh3687 said - they work but the filter burrs are way better
whatever next video you make, please dont make me feel bad for not waiting for Duo. I just got my zero as a Christmas gift and i'm loving it. lol. Although i know i would not want to deal with swapping out burrs...so i guess i'm coming back for the next video
Part of my goal here was reinforcing the value of the zero. Six years later and people have STILL been hunting for the Niche ZERO killer. It’s a fantastic grinder - feel good about it!!
@@DaddyGotCoffee do you have a video on grind size guide for niche? i'm still working on dialing in and i'm finding myself going way beyond the coarse point for french press....feels like i'm doing something wrong
@@butacrafts I don’t but you’re not wrong at all. For cupping and French press I often back up “off the dial” totally normal!
are the difference in the burrs that big of a deal? I drink primarily french press with an occasional espreso. Should I be concerned with changing burrs?
The filter burrs can absolutely not do espresso. You could probably get away with doing French press using the espresso burrs, but you would definitely get higher quality with the filter burrs.
Duo or DF83 for Espresso only? Thanks!
So whenever I get asked a question like this I’ll always be the first to say that it’s a highly subjective decision based on a lot of factors, and my answer may not be the same as yours and that doesn’t mean either answer is wrong.
I should probably release a full video on this because it is pretty nuanced.
As far as burrs go, it’s going to be a preference thing. I did like the cup from both sets, although I prefer the mazzer slightly over the stock all around burr of the DF83.
The Niche has the DF83 beat on overall polish and workflow, but the DF83 has the Niche beat on price, especially in North America. The DF83 probably provides a better platform if you are into heavy modding. I think design language wise some will prefer Niche while others will prefer the Turin.
So I would weigh all those factors and make a judgment were I in your shoes.
For me, personally, if I was only choosing between those two grinders I would probably save the extra and buy a niche. I like the cup slightly better (stock configuration) and what husband wants to spend hundreds of dollars on something their partner will complain about forever? Could I upgrade the burr on the DF83 for the same cash? Sure. Would that make my wife like it any more or smooth out its workflow at all? No.
Sorry for the rambling answer but I really don’t like to say things like “this is the absolute right answer and anyone who disagrees with me is dumb”. Different strokes! Buy informed but buy what you want. Even if it’s more and you have the money 🤷♂️ It’s all good.
I am awaiting the Niche Duo vs Zerno showdown!
I need to get a zerno!
This is such a great review! I have watched your review of the Fiorenzato Allground Sense grinder but now after watching this review, I can’t decide. Which one do you recommend more?
😮... probably still going to "compromise" with a Niche Zero 😂
Also CONGRATS on another professional acknowledgement of your videographer skills! 🎉
Thank you so much!!
NoZenith, the market has been flooded with grinders and reviewers since the Niche Zero originally launched.
Listen, the Zero was a present to commemorate the birth of my first son. It has seen me through years of enjoying some of the best roasted coffee on offering. Espresso and filter, aeropress, you name it.
Filter out the noise. The Niche Zero is an absolute luxury item, and you are in such an amazing place to feel you can splurge on one.
Don't let comparison and upgraditis fool you - the Zero will give you simplicity and delicious coffee for years.
@Christopher Buchanan thank you for your response and point of view. I struggle to justify the $$ for the Zero as an Indulgence... and the Duo is kinda twice the $$$$. I would live the lack of concerted effort and that would be the luxury for me. I like moka pot but don't make time for it in the morning. I want to pair the grinder with a Breville Bambino Plus for the ultimate (at least seemingly) ease/ simplistic luxury for the budget (yet have the flexibility to grind for other methods such as pour-over for company or some other kind of batch brew like a big French press or my 6 cup moka pot for Irish coffees with company)
I am pretty sure there is no further UA-cam content on the Niche Zero that I haven't absorbed at this point (multiple times in some cases). I have a Hario skerton, secondhand ceramic grinder, that had been modified to take an electric drill before I got it but no longer is set up for that so it's not exactly great haha. Oftentimes I just buy pre-ground Supermarket coffee to put in my Moka pot and forget how good coffee can be until I get a good shot from a nice cafe that charges $8 and it's AMAZING. If I can get EVEN halfway there and not have to stay in the room or fear getting distracted a couple minutes too long therefore overheating my Moka pot, then having to deal with the mess of the hot moka pot after scorching the coffee and wasting my efforts trying to make something a little more special... I'd be pretty happy. ( I am not a patient person, but like really potent, medium roast coffee, with and without dairy or oat milk).
@@NoZenith man if you ever moved from a skerton to a zero your world would be rocked. Especially if you are primarily espresso and only occasionally filter. I agree with the other comment or here - the zero is a great grinder, you could absolutely have a fantastic years long experience with it!
@@DaddyGotCoffee 😆🤯
As a niche owner I do love it
For blends
Had I not gotten the EG-1
I’d defiantly buy one 😂
Would love to give an EG1 a spin one day! 🔥
Honestly if you have an EG-1, I don't think you'd ever need another grinder.
@@theburgundynetwork3432 there great just annoying at times
ESP when the tutorials on re aligning the burrs isn’t correct from Weber 🤣
@@antoniokozmas9916👀👀👀
Antonio, I'm jealous!
Now that you can compare side by side, is the Niche Zero truly that muddy and bland, with harsh astringency, for filter brews when compared against the EG-1?
Which burrs are you rocking on that thing?
I gotta get off UA-cam, my upgraditis is flaring up again....
what 3rd party burr would you recommend for all-purpose usage. SSP MP or SSP Sweet Lab or anything else ? I really don't want to swap burr . Thank you
But with flat burrs at that low rpm how is it. ?
The feed rate is slower than higher rpm
grinders on espresso but that’s about the only meaningful difference. The coffee tastes great and the grind is fluffy and consistent. I’ve done everything I can short of throwing in rocks to stall the grinder and haven’t been able to!
I’ve read that the Zero is really easy to dial in due to the larger particle distribution. Is this as easy? I like the idea of a lazy dial in the morning and prefer savory, chocolatey shots, but it’d be cool to have an awesome filter grinder for my wife’s cold brew and pour overs.
It is easy, but not as easy as the zero. If chocolately espresso is your thing you'd be more than happy with the zero - that's it's jam! It doesn't shine on pour over, but it can do them and can do cold brew grind as well. The duo will do them better but if it's an occasional thing I'm not sure the added performance would be worth the cost. And changing the burrs to filter on the duo is not the type of thing you want to be doing every day.
Thanks for taking the time to reply!
@@jamesorr1200 of course!
Great video! Really enjoy your reviews, and love the “dad mode” perspective. Curious about the noise level of the duo vs the zero? I really miss the mellow soft tone of the zero vs my df64, wondering if it has been retained? Also, grind speed for espresso? I think the zero used to take 16-20 sec for 18g espresso grind, how is this one?
On espresso it’s almost exactly the same as the Zero, at least to me. Filter is a little louder and faster. Not nearly as loud/shrill as a DF83 on account of the lower RPM
A really interesting test IMO: grind for espresso on the filter burrs and for filter in the espresso ones. Is the resulting coffee good for those lazy days when you don’t want to change the burrs but want a different brew method?
Seconded on Jake’s comment. Espresso on filter is a no-go. Filter on espresso is technically possible but after using the filter burrs you’ll be grimacing the whole time you’re drinking that coffee
@@cuprajake1 thank you, I was looking for this question and response
Great video! Damn is the home barista getting spoiled… so many grinders to compare now it’s insane! I’d love to see how this stacks up against the df83, timemore 078 & 78s and more I’ve forgotten to name!
I agree!! Ok great, I’ve gotta see about getting my hands on a timemore!
Great review. Do you have any view on how the Niche Duo compares to the Timemore 078s?
Not yet but I’ve got an 078 on the way!
Should you spray the beans with water before grinding?
Lots of people do RDT, I don’t. I find it doesn’t make any difference in the amount of retention on the Duo and personally I don’t love the idea of moistening my beans before they hit the burrs. Some would certainly disagree with me. I think Niche recommends against a direct spray and says if you are going to do RDT to moisten a stirring element and stir the beans before grinding
"Putting my dad hat" will be me every morning. I find the need to change burrs at the moment when I need caffeine the most very inconvenient. I rather go with Eureka or the new Sculptor 078S.
I feel like the best use case for this is for someone who will leave in one of the burr sets “most” of the time as the grinders primary use. I mean I have several nice powered hand grinders to choose from that will do both espresso and filter and half the time I still hand grind because I can’t be bothered to adjust the grinder off of my espresso setting. I’m sure some people with cash to spare who love this grinder will buy two 🤷♂️ different strokes for different folks!
what's the story off this wrist tattoo? and is it HESED Or HESER? I can't figure it out if the last letter is Reysh OR Daled. (sorry for the sideway and my curiosity)
It’s Hesed! I’m not Hebrew but I study the language a little. I’m Christian and I find the concept and uniqueness of the word beautiful!
How is the coffee using the espresso burrs to make a pour over?
It’s… drinkable… but a shadow of the quality you get with the filter burrs
@@DaddyGotCoffee thanks man!
Many thanks for the great review.
What would be your verdict comparing the flat burrs from the duo vs the conical burrs from the zero? Which are mor suitable for dark roast espresso?
what espresso machine are you using? Is the duo good for french press?
I used the Ascaso Baby T for the vast majority of my testing, as well as several versions of the flair machines. It would certainly do French press, but you could almost definitely get away with a more affordable grinder if that is your primary use!
@@DaddyGotCoffee so what grinder do you recommend for french press?
@@steverealtyandfinance8171 a lot of this comes down to budget. But even the fellow ode and opus, or the baratza encore will do a good French press. If you want to seriously up the budget, pick a number and the coffee will only get better. Be careful though, the sky is the limit there 🤣
What is a good grind setting to start with for espresso? ….
And then when you change to pour overs (I’ve never tried as I only have done espresso with my current zero)
Thank you for your incredible videos!!!!
@@cuprajake1 thank you so much!!!
Have any YTuber try mix this 2 sets? bottom burr use filter one and top using espresso one, would love to know how the grind will be.
I haven’t tried this and am not sure if anyone else has yet either!
@@DaddyGotCoffee it will be fun to try. Please!
Question: Is there less, equal, or greater fines production with the duo than the zero? I saw an analysis of the fines on the zero that had significantly greater production than a Turin DF64, which worries me from a clarity standpoint.
Definitely less, which makes for increased clarity and sometimes lower body, in line with other flat burrs
Are you missing the option for variable RPM?
No variable RPM
Yes. But do you miss it’s absence?
@@liord2 got ya! I misunderstood what you were asking. For me, variable rpm is nice but not a dealbreaker. Once I get things where I like them I’ll often tend to leave them alone anyway. With both the zero and the duo, niche has shaved off features for the sake of simplicity. The stock RPM makes great espresso, so I don’t really miss being able to adjust it! At a significantly higher price it’s something I would start to look for
Love the September Coffee from @KyleRowsell used in your B-Role shot!
I’m sad that one is gone!! 😭
Same here, I really enjoyed it when I got it a few weeks ago
How does the Duo compare to the Fiorenzato All Ground you previously reviewed? You raved about the All Ground's ability to both ends of the grind spectrum, and it looks a lot simpler to "switch" between different styles. Obviously the single-dose vs hopper style is different but assuming the hopper isn't a deal-breaker, how do they compare in terms of grind and brew quality across different coffee styles?
These are both great grinders that provide great cups. I’m not sure I could even put one over the other in any kind of objective way. I’ve actually had some coffees on filter and espresso that I preferred on the fiorenzato and others I preferred on the niche.
On a personal note, I generally prefer single dosing workflow because I change beans A LOT. I often have several on the go at any given time. That puts me in the direction of the niche grind and brew quality aside, but that won’t be true for everyone. One thing I don’t love about hopper style all around grinders of any kind is the need to purge between setting changes. This wastes way more coffee than a single dosing grinder and is also needed on the Fiorenzato.
But.. you need to balance that against the obvious inconvenience of changing burrs on the duo. I don’t really see the duo as an all in one in the conventional sense. I certainly won’t be changing burrs daily on it.
But on the flip side, when the fiorenzato is on my bar I still often hand grind for filter because I can’t be bothered to purge or move off of my espresso setting 😂🤷♂️
I am new to the coffee world and ordered my Niche Zero about 1 week before they released (early april) the Duo. Bad timing I guess !
Not sure if I like the Niche Zero for poor over yet, but I think most of the problems I have are user-related for now.
And I would prioritize Espresso vs Poor over, so it would not really make sense to keep the Zero for espresso and the Duo with brew burrs for poor over...
So hows the filter coffee from the espresso burrs - I assume its ok just like filter on the zero is ok ?
It’s just ok. Once you try the filter burr it’s really hard to go back
I wonder even if using a.expresso flat burr for filter coffee on the Niche duo would the quality still taste better in comparison to any other flat bur out there.
Thanks for this video, very useful and interesting. For espresso how does the DUO compare with the DF83, in terms of taste/flavour of the beverage. Is one "better" than the other?
I’d have to say this one is largely down to preference. In terms of out of the box, I prefer the single purpose mazzers to the all around burr in the df83, some would almost certainly swing the other way on that. The niche also has the edge on overall polish and workflow, while the DF83 is probably a better platform for modding if you’re into that!
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks. From the videos I've seen for both, I'm not surprised that you say "down to preference", and that my asking "is one better?" was a big ask. Thanks again.
@@johndaintree no problem!
But how is filter on the espresso burrs? I have a niche zero and an ode with SSP multipurpose that I use for espresso and filter respectively. I’m very happy with the quality I get from both, but want to consolidate into one grinder. Are the Duo espresso burrs good for fairly finely ground filter?
It’s drinkable for sure - some would probably say it’s easily good enough.. but man, once you try those filter burrs 😅😬
Great video too!
Thank you Craig!!!!
How well does each burr set work with the other brew method?
I’m going to say espresso with the filter burrs, while technically possible under certain conditions, is not at all workable under any kind of real-world use case. You can do filter with the espresso burr, but it pales in comparison to filter using the filter burr
Were you actually serious about the point that the same number of grams comes out vs. went in?
Yup. Usually it’s +/- 0.1g. The first dose or two after a cleaning it retains a hair more, but really only a hair
Hey guys,
I ordered the duo and am having second thoughts. I have a question that people seem to be avoiding to answer. Putting aside work flow, aesthetics, and price, I really want to know the best flat bur grinder. I simply want to know what makes the best balanced espresso. I’m considering either the niche duo or the Lagom P64 (that’s my price max). Perhaps there’s others in the run for that price range, but I’d love input. Any help is much appreciated!
Both are great grinders but in a different league price wise. I am seeing more and more people opting for the zerno over the p64, although I have used neither. My experience with the Duo has been great!
@@DaddyGotCoffee I really appreciate your response! Any other grinds that might come to mind worth looking into? Seems like Niche wins again.
@@waleed0323 the Df83 and Timemore 078 are the main competitors to the Niche right now. So far, I’m preferring the Duo but it’s worth watching a couple shootout videos on these grinders!
@@DaddyGotCoffee thank you so much. I’ll do my best to like and support your channel. Keep up the good work! Tons of value to us!
Great video! Thanks for this review. I was actually looking to upgrade my Eureka Mignon Specialita to a Niche Zero but then I saw this new Duo machine and got me thinking what should I go for. Any advice in this case? (I am only doing espresso, not really a fan at the moment of filter coffee).
Great question - and the zero may very well do everything you need if you had been eying that. Have you ever tried a flat burr grinder? If not, do you prefer medium-to-light roasts or medium-to-dark roasts?
@@DaddyGotCoffee I haven't actually. The Eureka was my very first grinder :) in terms of roasts, I am more on the medium to light ones. Prob for this the Duo would do a better job I think?
@@andreicozma Most would probabaly say the Duo would suit better with flat burrs for lights but some of it is down to preference as well. If the extra cost is not a dealbreaker for you, you would definitely be happy with it. I do have comparison videos coming as well but anything besides a niche is a hard sell with my wife lol.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Eureka Mignon Specialita has 55 mm flats - great value for money; the jump to the DUO may be worth it for the single dosing more than flavor profile.
@@AdiTanase gosh, thank you 😂🤦♂️
I want both. Period
I’m sure some people will do this!
was the pour over made with the filter or espresso burrs?
Filter burrs! That was part of the movie magic. I wanted to show the burr change in detail later in the video
@@DaddyGotCoffee Cheers! kind of assumed that but just to make sure 😁
With the espresso burrs, what’s a typical grind setting that you found yourself using to pull a double shot?
Nice review. Hoe does this stack up to the lagom p64?
Full disclosure, I still need to get hands on with a P64, so I can’t speak into this with first hand experience. P64 is variable rpm and 64mm, so that’s one difference. It’s also slightly (very) less retention and a LOT more rxpensive
What kind of motor, and how much power?
Any idea why Niche recommends wearing gloves when handling the burrs, so as not to touch them with our bare hands? This seems strange to me. Do they perhaps have some special coating, which is somehow sensitive to grease/oils from our hands, or something like that? I haven't seen this recommendation anywhere else, not even for the Niche Zero for that matter. What's so special about these particular burrs that they must not be touched?
They would say it’s to prevent oxidation from super greasy sweaty hands. The burrs are not coated so are more prone to oxidation than coated titanium for example. But… I don’t use them and have never had any issue. I also try and not over handle the burrs.
They also reccomend this for the uncoated mazzer burr in the zero 🤷♂️ I think it’s really only a possible issue for super sweaters
Sooo. Between the duo and this Italian grinder with the display you reviewed recently, which one do you prefer?
Great question - first I’ll say I really bounce around with grinders. I feel like I’m always swapping them around for different taste experiences. The biggest factor in day to day use between the Fiorenzato allground and the Duo is hopper/single dose workflow. Since I switch up beans even several times a day I almost always have a single dosing grinder on hand. But, I’ll also often have a hopper grinder loaded up - it just commits you to however many beans you put in the hopper. The burrs in each are great and the workflow is good between the two. I think on the whole though I tend to lean more toward single dosing grinders. I haven’t used a hopper style grinder I enjoy more than the Fiorenzato.
@@DaddyGotCoffee I have to say, for me the workflow doesn’t really matter. I happily do it. Thanks
I only do pour over and have the Niche for about a year, is the Duo that much better to justify switching out my Zero?
In my opinion the Duo is head and shoulders above the zero on filter. For espresso the race is much closer
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks for the prompt reply, that is exactly what I feared. Any chance they will make a filter set of burs for the Zero?
@@bolerkai I think the chances of that are basically nil. The burrs in the zero are technically “all around” and CAN do filter, it’s just that the filter specific burrs in the duo do it much better
I think, the best way make it cheaper, like 650 with one burr, if you need one more, you have an option, pay extra!!
Definitely a lot of people looking for this. We’ll see if niche listens 🤷♂️
Do you know how many watts the motor is? They don't list that spec on their website.
So if you have 2 niche duo for both purposes then you have 2 expensive 83mm mazzer burr sitting to die in your drawer.
Under the current model, yes. Or, you could look at it as a spare of each. Niche has already and I’m sure will continue to get feedback from people wanting to buy with one burr option
@@DaddyGotCoffee Yes hopefully they start to offer burr options. Or maybe even an all purpose one.
Can the filter burr grind fine enough for espresso too? And how is the espresso burr when it comes to filter?
The design of the filter burr really prevents it from moving into espresso territory in any kind of useful way. You CAN technically make filter with the espresso burr, but once I had tasted the coffee using the filter burr, I def wanted to switch
@@DaddyGotCoffee cheers! Good to know. I'm still on the fence about the 2 burrs, don't think I'd want to be swapping them out multiple times a day.
@@chrisdturner I’m guessing you won’t be the only person to feel this way! It seems like it’s really designed to have one burr in “most” of the time. I’m sure there will be some people who get two or an all purpose burr for this reason!
What machine did you use to brew the espresso?
That’s the Ascaso Baby T!
They should give a discount for buying 2 Niche Duos with single burr each.
would you pick that over timemore 78s given the price difference
I’d have to use it to answer that, which I haven’t yet.
New Espresso Sub!!
Conflict of interest and being unbiased is mixing oil with water.
Everyone has biases, I never claimed to be unbiased, and I will never claim this. As soon as anyone expresses an opinion or conclusion of any kind, there is bias at play. I have clearly disclosed everything that may be of concern to a viewer. If my review is not for you as a result, all good! ✌️
Having two wouldn't be strange at all, especially considering the price of some of the other grinders on the market.
Neat. Now open a EU warehouse Niche.
Cost is such a relative thing. To some this grinder is ridiculously expensive. To others it’s too cheap to bother with. So wild