Great review! Love to see ppl still caring about this grinder after all these months. A video on aligning the burrs would be super helpful. I'm still waiting on my 078 to come in
I am awaiting for shipment for a black version. Great review! I already have 7kg of cheap coffee (got it for 35€) to push through it. But I would love to see a detailed guide for allignment and setting the zero point correctly. Thanks! ❤
There weren't many 83mm burr options either initially when df83 first came out. With how popular the 078 models are i think SSP or other companies like Gorilla Gear (who pre-seasons their burrs!!!) Will come out with something for the 078s grinder eventually. Hansung from SSP sounded like he did want to make burrs for it but Timemore wasn't sending him a grinder to test with so he has to wait like the rest of us.
Thanks for starting off with all the downsides of this grinder. Too many reviewers gloss over downsides and we end up losing so much money hopping from one machine to the next. Reviewers need to be more critical. To me this grinder is a hard pass with the issues you pointed out. It could be a sample size issue but with the amount of times I've been burnt by youtube reviewers I doubt it.
Thank you for the review! I would like to hear more about the alignment of this grinder: how to check it and how to fix it if needed? (And you will compare this grinder to the fellows ode for filter?)
I think I should put an alignment video on the list. I can def shoot out the ode - imo the 078s gives a clearer cup but I haven’t done a side by side yet with the two of them! Will add this to the video idea bucket!
I’m living thru almost everything you’ve experienced so far, and I’m only at 1kg total ground. The hopper design suuuucks. The zero point was off by 2.5 holes (I repinned it at -2 holes). Shot times so far are wild and they consistently taste bitter. Ground cup is hard to clear out the fines. I would love if u could do a video on how you disassembled and then aligned the burrs properly. Btw, I bought the same white Ascaso Steel Plus Duo you are using in your video based on your review. Very happy user so far. Thanks!
I'm curious how much easier it was to set up and get good quality coffee out of the Niche Duo than it was this. I even did the math and holy crap, that was MONTHS worth of coffee you put through the 078 before you got those burrs seasoned enough to get decent shots!? I average less than two double shots a day so it would have taken me easily six months if I didn't want to just burn through a bunch of coffee and waste it. I know it's subjective but I'm also curious how this does with clean pour over or Brew Coffee compared to the Brew Burr of the Niche Duo. I guess I mean I'd appreciate more clarification on what you prefer in the brew and if it's enough better to justify leaning that way with all other considerations and your stated preference for the Duo. I'm contemplating getting something else (in the future) than my Niche Zero for more versatility or just something to go aside it. I'm not really interested in hoppers so I kind of lucked out in this era of single doser/micro Hopper situations
I was getting good coffee out of the Duo on day one. Did it get better over time? Yes, but it was also entirely drinkable out of the box, IMO the 078s was not. Re filter, the 078s is a slightly smoother brew. The filter burr on the duo is slightly less clear, mor complex, and a tiny bit more astringent. To be fair though, I’m not sure I would have said that unless I was doing a lot of side by sides. Both grinders do make good filter cups - but, for all the gripes I have with the 078s the filter cups on it do win over the duo for me.
I got my 078S today, set it at 1200 RPM, put 4 beans at 1.0, dumped the powder and started my first attempt. I set it at 1.5(blind guess), put 15.2g in w/o RDT(room humidity was ~46% so I usually will do RDT), and got 15.1g out. Pulled a 51g shot at 25s using a near lever machine profile. Decently even, no squirting. Nearly got a perfect expression of Onyx Southern Weather: It has the plum's juicy acidity(while not overwhelming), a nice transition into the punchy chocolatey and nutty body, the finish is quite long and has low to no bitterness. I was prepared to cringe on some awful espresso shots and clean up some mess. But it turned out I finished that espresso and enjoyed every sip of it. I'm sure it could get even better as the burrs wear in, but I don't understand why some people make it sound like that's the main cause of them not able to make good coffee out of it? I must just got lucky then? Needless to say, I'm super happy; I'll try to grind a bit finer and try a 1:2 ratio to see if I get a more syrupy texture.
As these have started to get into the hands of buyers/backers I’ve seen a very wide variety of experiences. Some, almost exactly like mine, others more like yours. I’m not sure what makes the difference, be it alignment, burr finishing, QC etc. I can’t speak to others, but in my case there was some definite issue with the grinder - I have tested dozens of grinders and never had an experience like that
@@DaddyGotCoffee That indeed sounds strange. For reference, mine is from 11th Batch. Which I believe is supposed to be the latest batch for KS. Maybe that has something to do with my luck? Just a wild guess.
My 078s is from the 11th batch as well. No seasoning apart from using it for drip through a Moccamaster for about 5 days before going for espresso. First try the grind was too fine and tamped too hard. Second time nailed it.
Great video! A couple questions 1. What are your favorite decafs? They're definitely under represented in the specialty coffee world. 2. With being so torn on actually recommending this grinder, what grinders would you recommend? Let's keep it narrowed down to espresso, and maybe at the price range of like 500-800 and then 800-1200?
Seconding this for best coffee grinder for decaf coffee! Maybe it doesn’t matter the beans put in. Would love to know the answer though as I see more and more people having bad side effects from coffee unfortunately!
Thanks for a great review. Just watched Aramse's review a couple days ago, so you're probably still not at the optimal point of seasoning considering he had to put 7 kg of beans through his unit to achieve peak performance. Regarding cold/hot start, I was under the impression that the lid can slide back and forth, so if you're using RDT in a separate dosing tray, you can hot start with the lid back half-way? BTW, the quality of your videos are getting better and better, and I think you've found a style/charm that is uniquely yours. Keep up the EXCELLENT work!
Thank you so much!! Yeah I had about 1.5kg through it before I did my massive seasoning run of 5k, and some usage since. So I’m sure I’m close to where is is at but I haven’t seen a dramatic or sudden shift. The coffee is quite good and the grinder is a lot more forgiving though! The lid is magnetic, I haven’t been able to get it to do this. Thank you for the encouragement! I have big dreams for my channel! 😊
So glad you discussed the grind adjustment amount to the time of flow! Good for you. So many MISS this!! Its the issue I have with the Eureka 54mm and 1 reason I am looking for a new grinder. ALso looks like this one is cleaning hassle. Maybe the DF83 or DF83v is a better choice for me....But I have been struggling to make a solid cup, and years ago I had little issue with my older novice setup. I think beans have changed!! ? Really!
got the grinder 2 days ago and seasoned it the last 2 days with 8kg. just a few hours ago i did my first shots and it was horrendous. insane channeling. Maybe the burrs are not alligned but something is off. I also have medium roasted beans and am on slightly above 1 on the adujustment wheel. A video showing the allignment process would be great
So sorry to hear this! I will get something in the queue, in the meantime, use this as it sounds like you may need it before I can get it released: m.ua-cam.com/video/Gb3PgeQ6ewY/v-deo.html Some tips - I only aligned the front burr and got decent results afterward. The rear burr would be a nightmare. Also, I always try and shim under or near the screws when doing alignments to avoid “flexing” the burr once you tighten the screws down - even a microscopic flex can mess things up! This gets much harder with the two screw design of the sculptor burrs. Just be cognizant of the fact that if you apply several layers of tin foil in the middle of two screws, you may want to create some “ramp down” shims to try and even out any possible flex
I backed through Kickstarter and paid £402 for the white 078s. It arrived this week and I’ve jumped from using the built in grinder in the Sage Barista Express and also a Timemore hand grinder occasionally straight to the Sculptor. Man what a difference this unit is. Build quality is very impressive and so is its weight (6.8kg). I have a long way to go before seasoning is complete but I’m already impressed with the shots. I’m glad I backed the project and have no doubt that after market burrs will be released at some point down the line.
Received my 078s yesterday, and the need for seasoning and possibly alignment (haven’t opened it up yet) remain true. Not sure I would have ordered the grinder had I seen this review first. Oh well, something to tinker with until Gaggiuino parts arrive.
wish you'd review the 078 for pourover as all reviews I've read says it is considerably better than the 78S....also compare the zp6 and 078 would be fun (blind tastings) as many feel the zp6 is close in what the 078 can do.
I've seen a Timemore user instruction video where they recommend turning the grinder on, let it get up to speed, and then pour in the coffee beans. Yes you have to place the anti-popcorn lid on quickly after, but I just keep the lid 3/4 on, pour in the beans, and slide the lid shut quickly. Piece of cake!
The hot start recommendation wasn’t available when this video was recorded (my unit shipped before any documentation was ready!) but I came to the conclusion that a hot start was best as well. Thanks for this!
My 078s were delivered this morning. I'm looking forward to new experiences and coffee adventures. Bought this to replace my old Compak R8, hope it was a good decision.
Hey @daddygotcoffee thanks for the review! I watched your x54 review which made me wish I bought that over the 78s. Now that you've had your hands on both, which grinder would you say is better suited for Espresso the x54 or 78s and why? Thanks for your time
Haha.. I felt called out. I backed it on kickstarter, and I absolutely can’t get good espresso out of it. So much channeling. Very helpful review, I’m going to set up a seasoning station and run a few kilos through it. Should I be concerned about how long I run it at a time? Did you let the motor cool off?
I ended up reading somewhere online that a cheap way to season new burrs was to buy a bunch of instant rice (NOT regular rice) and I ran about 3 lbs of instant rice through it at different grind adjustments. It’s way better now, getting great spro from it. I would only run a few 100 grams through it at a time, and let it rest.
Hi. I purchased an Ascaso and this grinder after seeing your videos. I’m still a newbie. Oh man. I am very frustrated with this grinder. 8kg already and it is still all over the place. My timemore hand grinder works flawlessly. This one channels everywhere. I’ll give alignment a try but this would be the first time I do it so wish me luck. It would be great if you could do a video about that.
£400 for the 078s at kickstarter price and it’s competing with a niche duo that is £780 in the UK with two burrs. (i know the Niche is even more expensive everywhere else in the world). In my opinion this makes the 078s a bargain for most coffee enthusiasts. Also the Ode gen 2 is £350 and it can’t do espresso.
Niche Duo with two basic burr sets to me is a bad idea, nobody is going to change it back and forth every time they decide what they want to drink. And if someone only drinks espressos or brew, then they just wasted a pair of burrs. From what I see they didn't even give it a powerful motor going from conical to 83mm flat burrs. We are living in a good time; I mean, someone can just buy an Ode Gen 2 with SSP MP for brew, then 078S for espresso and some milk coffee. That's like 1k USD to grind any kind of coffee. Or save half the money if they aren't picky on light roast brew or don't do espresso.
I've had so many grinders over the last 3 years or so and most don't NEED seasoning. It is NOT acceptable a company gives you an espresso grinder that needs 10kg of coffee through it before it can do espresso as intended. If it's that bad they should really pre season the burrs. Most people who get it are going to expect it to be ready to go out of the box so ill expect a lot of negative reviews and angry customers. Resale value will drop like a rock because everyone will have one up for sale. Reviews like this are very helpful though so more people are aware. Some roasters will sell older or failed roasts for cheap or give em away free so ask some local roasters when you're expecting your grinder to arrive. But its not something the consumer should really have to do.
ok, new subscriber here. For espresso what grinder would you recommend? This video shows a lot of frustration on your part. I have an Odyssey Argos and Lagom Mini setup. I would like to turn the mini into dedicated filter grinder since it is better there and get an all arounder that is great for espresso. Would love to know in each price point what the best are. Like a $500 like DF or a $1,500 like Zerno and everything in between. That is my situation.
Well done video. In regards to hot starting, people used to using RDT already use a second vessel to load beans into the hopper (so as to avoid adding moisture to catch cup) so it shouldnt change their workflow much. The magnets should allow you to leave the lid in a halfway open orientation. Was this not the case for your unit? Cheers
Thanks for the video. I funded the 78. I’m curious about your decaf recipes. In my experience decaf doesn’t pull like caffeinated coffee. It can be easier to shift paradigm and think of it as a slightly different beverage.
excellent review ! diserve my sub for sure ! did you seasoned it with 5kg at espresso setting ? i backed it up at the kick starter lunch very very early and im still waiting since im in canada , i'm a bit worried about the narrownest of ajustement for espresso honeslty , i hope that they would have put an endless screw on the top as ajustement
I did season on espresso grind! I’ve seen others say to let it cool down throughout the process and that is a great add! Yes, the narrowness of adjustment especially combined with the normal viewing angle on the markings is something to consider for sure
I have a 78s arriving soon (hopefully) and this has braced me for possibly needing a lot more time than I expected to get it working well. The alignment issue is very disappointing, the amount of seasoning is daunting (time and money involved) and the lack of granularity in the espresso range of grind adjustment is the most disappointing as that one is perhaps the flaw we can't overcome? I would appreciate a video on the best way to check and fix alignment. Thanks.
The slow ramp up and cold start probably isn't going to help your espresso shot flow! Even Timemores manual says to start it and then load the coffee. I don't understand some peoples obsession with opening and cleaning out grinders so frequently. I'm not opening my grinders unless I'm changing burrs or something is wrong. If you put fresh coffee in you're cleaning out the old coffee. I have grinders with ssp MP but I've been enjoying the more balanced profile of the 078s so far. I think they may have fixed the issue with the burrs needing seasoning before they perform well mine seemed good before seasoning. I am putting some coffee through since I got seasoning coffee already.
great review! i think all the people who got the grinder for its kickstarter price of 499usd just made a bargain of a deal (me included lol). In regards to the seasoning i am contacting several local roasters and ask for "waste beans" to run them through my grinder.
Thanks for the review. Would you say the filter coffee produced by the grinder also suffers until the burrs are seasoned? Wondering if I could use this solely for grinding filter coffee until it’s seasoned. Thanks!
The aesthetic of it is awesome, however it seems to be complicated to use . I m looking for a good single dose grinder that is good right out of the box. Obviously, it s not that one. I currently have a Eureka Silenzio and it was great out of the box .
Tangential question but I do wonder whether people feel the 064 Turbo needs much seasoning, if only using for filter, vs. all the seasoning needed for one of the esspresso S models?
Arrghh..Im having pretty much similar issues as you, despite putting in roughly 6lbs of beans so far. I didnt have to change the 0 point though. The grind is very inconsistent. Ill dial the beans in and get good shots at lets say 2.5 and then randomly without touching the dial, it will be too fine and ill have to tinker with the grind size where now it will be in the 3.5-4 range to get the same grind size (shot times) and then it will be good shots there for a few days and ill start having very runny shots so ill have to move it back to 2ish or re-dial it in. I have to keep redialing it and I have the same beans. This didnt happen with my older grinder with the same beans. Its annoying and Im hoping its a seasoning issue that will work itself out but im 6lb of beans in. When the shots are dialed, they are great but its way more finicky. Anyone else have this experience?
Hi..thank you for the review..do you thinks it acceptable for the manufacturer,producing home grinder that need 5kg of seasoning before it gets good?im getting buyers remorse now after your review..havent receive my kickstarter 078s yet.if i can turn back time,will the fiorenzato allground make more sense?is it better do u think subjective and objectively?sorry for long rant..great review as always,appreciate it
Niche Zero here... idk if I'd spend the additional cash... but for the simplicity/ versatility a niche Duo would be nice if you don't want conical but you want the established build quality of the expected long term investment from Niche 😊. If I had a bit more budget I would almost regret having snagged the Zero.
First I would say, go and watch other reviews - I am convinced I dealt with issues that were not the norm. The AllGround is a great grinder but if you want to single dose I would stick with a grinder built for a single dosing workflow. In my opinion 5kg (which I think is on the lower end, others report 7-10, which lines up with how much coffee I actually put through it even though my actually seasoning run was 5k) is not acceptable. Does it make it a bad grinder? I think that’s for buyers to decide! Happy to answer any more questions.
Jut FYI, you can still cancel your pledge right now, if so inclined. I'm keeping mine since I can get cheap bad roasts to season the burrs with, but I agree that these should arrive pre-seasoned from Timemore.
@@lilteyangthank you..dint know can still do that,will try to msg them and see maybe can reach middle ground..dont mind actually if they willing to preseason with acceptable fee..otherwise 5kg of beans will take almost 10month for me..not hardcore espresso man as you guys..haha
@@DaddyGotCoffeethank you..yeah i seen the aramse review say he need 7kg of seasoning,while lance only started to review after almost 10kg of seasoning if im not mistaken..would u say during seasoning the espresso grind 100%undrinkable or still salvageble with long preinfusion or what not?
how do you like the Burrs for milk drinks? Do they hit the sweet spot to still have enough body to shine through with milk or could you go even further in the modern/clarity direction?
Thanks for the tips! How much beans did you run through the grinder at a time during the 5kg seasoning process? Would also be great to see a video of how you aligned the burrs :)
If you were using either this or the Duo as your ONLY grinder, would the workflow of the Niche still beat out the Timemore even with having to swap out the burrs for different brew methods?
Sucks that the burrs are not swappable, and that the S version is not a "espresso" burr grinder, in terms of range, and specialty, perhaps. I dont care about pour over, and want best range in espresso. So that takes it out for me.
1000CAD and it comes misaligned and needs 10+ lbs of coffee run through it before it kinda starts to taste good. Yikes. Also I don’t know if it’s just me but I don’t dig the kitchen aid mixer aesthetic.
People said I was crazy when I said the grinder caused problems for espresso on the highest RPM settings, and sprayed and channelled. Got a lot of backlash. Glad it wasn't just my review unit.
Criticizing the gradually rising rpm is so unfair! 👎The sticker on the lid of the hopper says turn on grinder first, then add coffee. In other words, Timore recommends a hot start. A bit amateurish…
@@DaddyGotCoffee I just didn't catch it, or did you not say it on the video? Because why are you commenting on something that happens with a procedure not recommended by the manufacturer and not mentioning the relevant observation that the revs jump even with hot start?
@@vaclavcrk1809 they also don’t recommend disassembling the grinder, but I’m definitely going to do that during testing, check alignments etc. Aside from that, this was a preproduction model that shipped without any of the final documentation from timemore. I test cold starts. And hot starts. In this case, the result was similar 🤷♂️. I’m not beholden to you to test exactly the way you want. If you don’t like my methods, feel free to watch elsewhere.
I want to apologize for my last comment. We may disagree on the discussion here but this is not how I want to conduct myself. To answer your most recent question, at 9:45 I say that, in my opinion, the grinder is better suited to hot starts. First, I'd like to reiterate that this grinder landed with me without any documentation, and that this video was filmed, edited and published before manuals or other documentation from Timemore were publicly available. Also, the symptom of load based RPM variance is present with both cold and hot starts, and... I explicity mentioned that IMO the grinder is better suited to hot starts - I don't see how this assessment is in any way unfair. I'm actualy surprised that of the long list of issues I had with this grinder, this is the one that you have taken issue with, especially when I addressed it right in the video with an operation recommendation that is in-line with timemores, even while I had no documentation. Further to your point of fairness, something I had not done prior to this video and may not do again, I shared all of my concerns with the timemore team via email several weeks before this video was recorded or edited. Given my abnormally difficult experience with this grinder I thought it was warranted. Even after following up several times, I received no response. Even still, in the video I give Timemore the benefit of the doubt, suggesting several times that it's possible some of my issues may be limited to my specific unit, and that people should watch other reviews in addition to mine. In my opinion, this is beyond fair to Timemore. I am constantly re-evaluating and adding to my grinder testing SOP, so if you have a suggestion or would like to share a different experience with the 078s if you are an owner, feel free to leave a follow up. As long as your comment is not hateful, abusive or profane it will get left up. I will continue to test grinders outside of grinder manufactures specifications for stress and use-cases that will no doubt happen in real-world use and will not be modifying this video as I feel like I have covered the subject well enough. This will be my last comment on this thread, thank you for your feedback. *edited for two small typos
I'm a bit suprised how long it takes the grinder get up to speed (12:00), and I'm wondering what this does to the grind size distribution. Can I suggest a test? Grind 18g, and catch the first, the second, and the third 6 grams separately. Repeat 3 times, then combine the matching portions and pull 3 shots. My guess is they will taste different. Great review btw., I just subscribed 😊.
I just got mine and the manual does say to start the grinder before adding the coffee. I've not noticed any change in pitch when starting the motor. Maybe it's because he's preloading the grinder with beans before switching it on.
I was gonna say. The manual says to hot start the grinder with the cover half open. It sounds like ~2s to get up to speed when I do it correctly which is completely normal. As powerful as P64 is, I still don't cold start it as there's no reason to buy a good grinder and then make the RPM uneven like a cheapo. Don't really need to ask for a test, it will grind/taste different for sure. Maybe a more meaningful way is to use the RPM dial and do it the correct way, then see for yourself?
I went for the 078S mainly becuase I wanted to buy a good close to end game grinder (for me) at a reasonable price. I'm using the trusty Rancillio Rocky but it's not ideal for single dosing at home but overall makes good espresso. After watching more reviews about seasoning, I'm looking where I can buy old coffee beans
We genuinely adore the 078s! 😄 However, we might despise manual grinding for espresso even more. Regarding the alignment, Lance has a video on it - we aligned it the very day we got it. Our only gripe is with the hopper; it constrains its potential since it doesn't allow for hot grinding because of the popcorn issue.
I'd love to see a review from your side as well. Pretty surprised about the burr alignment. Up until now I only heard stories of well aligned burrs, straight out of the box.
@@lpnew3 it did sound like rpm ramps up slowly under load but mine just be its grinding a smaller amount initially and pitch just changes based on how much its grinding at once or the load of it. Not sure. That's a super slow ramp up if it's what it sounds like.
I bought an 078s to replace my Sette 270 (way too loud) but even after 10ish KG of seasoning I am getting huge differences in shot times on the same setting (10+ second differences). My sette 270 I could pull identical shots back to back (1-2sec variances). Does this sound like your experience? Do you have any tips for aligning, I saw people online saying the marker test was really hard to do with this.
Alignment was a big pain with this grinder. It’s a huge pain to open up with lots of screws to remove each time. That in and of itself is a big part of what makes things so tedious on this grinder! Also, because the burrs are a 2 hole design if you put a big shim right in the middle of the area between two screws, it can more easily result in warping of the burr as opposed to an even shim 😵💫 It took me a while. I ended up using graduated shims to try and get a more even result and still didn’t get it quite perfect but workable. I didn’t shim the rear burr which would be even worse to work on. It took me a while, good luck. I should make an alignment video but in the meantime the Wired Gourmet has a good one
My 078s arrived and I just aligned it after doing the marker test. I also moved the pin 3 holes counterclockwise for the new zero point. After watching a video from Hoons's Coffee, where he aligned the DF64 simply by changing the orientation of the burrs, I did the same thing with my 078s, although the burrs are only hold by 2 screws. This worked well for the outer and the inner burr and I didnt need to use aluminium foil, so maybe I was just lucky or the burrs were mounted with wrong orientation (chance by 50% because of 2 screws). Another thing I took from Hoon's video is to spin the outer burr by hand. To achieve that you have to remove the spring from the shaft, so that the burrs can touch and than carefully spin the outer burr with the handle. By doing that you can save the whole (re-)assembly process and the aligning process is simplified. Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure if spinning the burr by hand leads to the same result of the marker test when compared to the marker test with a fully assembled 078s. What do you think?
I love Hoon. I always do my wipe test with the grinder fully assembled and the motor running the grinder because (in my mind) it most closely mimics the actual operating mode of the grinder. A hand spin can be good but the tolerances are so tight for espresso (literally microns), any uneven pressure from your hand/arm has the potential to skew the results of the test. I have not done any A/B to determine the accuracy or lack thereof but I just prefer to keep it to the closest to final assembled state.
So it sounds like the grind speed is actually increasing as the grind proceeds; doesn't really inspire confidence in the variable RPM as it sure sound like the RPMs are varying anyway while grinding. Any thoughts on this?
Honestly, research on rpm affecting grind distribution is early which makesd it difficult to speak authoritatively into this with a conclusion. I thought it best to let people listen and make up their own minds. I think your concerns are certainly fair.
Wow, really solid review! You went above and beyond with this one, thanks so much! I feel like the challenge of using the dial has me more worried about the 078S than anything else. If I'm using the grinder for both filter and espresso daily, how challenging is it to get back to a previously dialed in espresso setting? Also, I might have missed this, but did you have a favorite RPM setting? Sounded like something around 1000 or so is where you kept it?
Thank you!!! I will say getting back bang on to the right espresso setting first try is a little tricky unfortunately, or at least it is for me. And yup I’m right up the middle which is 1100
Love to see a shot out of 078s vs Niche (not duo). I backed the 078s for my Flair 58 but I was between these two. I have. C3 Pro Max for pour over I love so the electric grinder is for espresso only. I’m in US so mine has not shipped yet.
Good, well balanced review. I backed an 078s, and while the excitement of getting it sometime in the future has waned, it'll still be a nice upgrade from my Mignon Manuale. I'll just be sure to get a LOT of free coffee for seasoning.
Thank you for a Beautiful video and very informative review. I am not sure if you answered this question before but after moving the pin 2 positions to the left what is the new range for espresso and pour over with medium-dark roast.
I found I was doing pour over around 13 with that setting. Espresso will really vary depending upon coffee, dose etc. I was usually between 1.5-3 personally
Taller hopper and better dial mod accesories are confirmed in the KS comments. My friend is getting his 078s soon and Im excited to see what it can do - cant wait for the 078 i backed to arrive though
very surpised that you found that 078s perform better in filter than Duo's Filter burr.... well i don't own either of these, so i am not affected.. but 83mm Mazzer burrs are being used in high end Mazzer grinders.. oh!!!!!!! i think this is a good surprise
I think both grinders perform well, however (in my experience), the 078s gives a clearer filter cup, while the mazzers give slightly more complexity. Between the two, I did prefer the 078s.
Is the 78S the best grinder for filter coffee I am assuming that’s what you’re saying? As you were discussing the SSP, Niche Zero, and Niche duo all at the same time. Which was super helpful and my favorite part of the video I might add.
I@@MeganWaylett If I was buying for filter only it would definitely be the 078 over the 078s. When it comes to the 078s, I get a hair more complexity from the 151F mazzer in the niche - I'm not even sure I would pick it up if I hadn't done it side by side but yes, the 078s edges it out - but only barely and for my taste. My fave in house burrs that get the most use for filter are EK43 stock and Pietro pro-brew. I am very excited to try the new Mazzer 64mm with similar geometry to 64mm MP's. I am assuming they will be close to SSP profile and WAYYYY cheaper.
Nice review, I am waiting for my 078, I don't do espresso, only pour-over. Currently, I have a Niche Zero, and I do love the machine with some basic workaround, makes very good coffee.
My wife accidentally broke our K Ultra. So I am in the market for an all purpose grinder. She drinks filter and I drink espresso and lungo. It’s been super challenging to find an electric grinder that can do it all.
One thing no one method before, it is true as the burr is vertical, one of the burr would always be mostly using the bottle parts only ! Which cause uneven wear
thanks for the video! lines up pretty much with Aramse’s experience (including massive seasoning) … i can’t wait to get mine (early kickstarter backer) in Canada!!
Great review! Love to see ppl still caring about this grinder after all these months. A video on aligning the burrs would be super helpful. I'm still waiting on my 078 to come in
I am awaiting for shipment for a black version. Great review!
I already have 7kg of cheap coffee (got it for 35€) to push through it.
But I would love to see a detailed guide for allignment and setting the zero point correctly.
Thanks! ❤
There weren't many 83mm burr options either initially when df83 first came out. With how popular the 078 models are i think SSP or other companies like Gorilla Gear (who pre-seasons their burrs!!!) Will come out with something for the 078s grinder eventually. Hansung from SSP sounded like he did want to make burrs for it but Timemore wasn't sending him a grinder to test with so he has to wait like the rest of us.
Here’s hoping! I know a lot of people would like this!
Would love to see your process of alligning the burrs 🙂
+1 - when my US version eventually ships, seasoning and aligning will be my first steps.
Same here
Thanks for starting off with all the downsides of this grinder. Too many reviewers gloss over downsides and we end up losing so much money hopping from one machine to the next. Reviewers need to be more critical. To me this grinder is a hard pass with the issues you pointed out. It could be a sample size issue but with the amount of times I've been burnt by youtube reviewers I doubt it.
i was amazed when you said 078s beats Niche DUO's filter burr on filter coffee! would love to hear more about it
Yeah! I mean the 151 F in the duo is a great burr. I get just the tiniest bit more astringency on it than the 078!
Detailed breakdown to align and clean would be awesome!
Thank you for the review!
I would like to hear more about the alignment of this grinder: how to check it and how to fix it if needed?
(And you will compare this grinder to the fellows ode for filter?)
I think I should put an alignment video on the list. I can def shoot out the ode - imo the 078s gives a clearer cup but I haven’t done a side by side yet with the two of them! Will add this to the video idea bucket!
@@DaddyGotCoffee thanks for the answer!
Can you please do a video on how to align the burrs on the 078S❤
I’m living thru almost everything you’ve experienced so far, and I’m only at 1kg total ground. The hopper design suuuucks. The zero point was off by 2.5 holes (I repinned it at -2 holes). Shot times so far are wild and they consistently taste bitter. Ground cup is hard to clear out the fines. I would love if u could do a video on how you disassembled and then aligned the burrs properly.
Btw, I bought the same white Ascaso Steel Plus Duo you are using in your video based on your review. Very happy user so far. Thanks!
I'm curious how much easier it was to set up and get good quality coffee out of the Niche Duo than it was this. I even did the math and holy crap, that was MONTHS worth of coffee you put through the 078 before you got those burrs seasoned enough to get decent shots!? I average less than two double shots a day so it would have taken me easily six months if I didn't want to just burn through a bunch of coffee and waste it. I know it's subjective but I'm also curious how this does with clean pour over or Brew Coffee compared to the Brew Burr of the Niche Duo. I guess I mean I'd appreciate more clarification on what you prefer in the brew and if it's enough better to justify leaning that way with all other considerations and your stated preference for the Duo. I'm contemplating getting something else (in the future) than my Niche Zero for more versatility or just something to go aside it. I'm not really interested in hoppers so I kind of lucked out in this era of single doser/micro Hopper situations
I was getting good coffee out of the Duo on day one. Did it get better over time? Yes, but it was also entirely drinkable out of the box, IMO the 078s was not. Re filter, the 078s is a slightly smoother brew. The filter burr on the duo is slightly less clear, mor complex, and a tiny bit more astringent. To be fair though, I’m not sure I would have said that unless I was doing a lot of side by sides. Both grinders do make good filter cups - but, for all the gripes I have with the 078s the filter cups on it do win over the duo for me.
Very nice video, really enjoyed your attitude towards the grinder. I would really like a video on aligning these burrs! Keep it up!
I got my 078S today, set it at 1200 RPM, put 4 beans at 1.0, dumped the powder and started my first attempt.
I set it at 1.5(blind guess), put 15.2g in w/o RDT(room humidity was ~46% so I usually will do RDT), and got 15.1g out. Pulled a 51g shot at 25s using a near lever machine profile. Decently even, no squirting.
Nearly got a perfect expression of Onyx Southern Weather: It has the plum's juicy acidity(while not overwhelming), a nice transition into the punchy chocolatey and nutty body, the finish is quite long and has low to no bitterness. I was prepared to cringe on some awful espresso shots and clean up some mess. But it turned out I finished that espresso and enjoyed every sip of it.
I'm sure it could get even better as the burrs wear in, but I don't understand why some people make it sound like that's the main cause of them not able to make good coffee out of it? I must just got lucky then?
Needless to say, I'm super happy; I'll try to grind a bit finer and try a 1:2 ratio to see if I get a more syrupy texture.
As these have started to get into the hands of buyers/backers I’ve seen a very wide variety of experiences. Some, almost exactly like mine, others more like yours. I’m not sure what makes the difference, be it alignment, burr finishing, QC etc. I can’t speak to others, but in my case there was some definite issue with the grinder - I have tested dozens of grinders and never had an experience like that
@@DaddyGotCoffee That indeed sounds strange. For reference, mine is from 11th Batch. Which I believe is supposed to be the latest batch for KS. Maybe that has something to do with my luck? Just a wild guess.
My 078s is from the 11th batch as well. No seasoning apart from using it for drip through a Moccamaster for about 5 days before going for espresso. First try the grind was too fine and tamped too hard. Second time nailed it.
Great video! A couple questions
1. What are your favorite decafs? They're definitely under represented in the specialty coffee world.
2. With being so torn on actually recommending this grinder, what grinders would you recommend? Let's keep it narrowed down to espresso, and maybe at the price range of like 500-800 and then 800-1200?
Seconding this for best coffee grinder for decaf coffee! Maybe it doesn’t matter the beans put in. Would love to know the answer though as I see more and more people having bad side effects from coffee unfortunately!
Thanks for a great review. Just watched Aramse's review a couple days ago, so you're probably still not at the optimal point of seasoning considering he had to put 7 kg of beans through his unit to achieve peak performance.
Regarding cold/hot start, I was under the impression that the lid can slide back and forth, so if you're using RDT in a separate dosing tray, you can hot start with the lid back half-way?
BTW, the quality of your videos are getting better and better, and I think you've found a style/charm that is uniquely yours. Keep up the EXCELLENT work!
Thank you so much!! Yeah I had about 1.5kg through it before I did my massive seasoning run of 5k, and some usage since. So I’m sure I’m close to where is is at but I haven’t seen a dramatic or sudden shift. The coffee is quite good and the grinder is a lot more forgiving though!
The lid is magnetic, I haven’t been able to get it to do this.
Thank you for the encouragement! I have big dreams for my channel! 😊
So glad you discussed the grind adjustment amount to the time of flow! Good for you. So many MISS this!! Its the issue I have with the Eureka 54mm and 1 reason I am looking for a new grinder. ALso looks like this one is cleaning hassle. Maybe the DF83 or DF83v is a better choice for me....But I have been struggling to make a solid cup, and years ago I had little issue with my older novice setup. I think beans have changed!! ? Really!
got the grinder 2 days ago and seasoned it the last 2 days with 8kg. just a few hours ago i did my first shots and it was horrendous. insane channeling. Maybe the burrs are not alligned but something is off. I also have medium roasted beans and am on slightly above 1 on the adujustment wheel. A video showing the allignment process would be great
So sorry to hear this! I will get something in the queue, in the meantime, use this as it sounds like you may need it before I can get it released:
m.ua-cam.com/video/Gb3PgeQ6ewY/v-deo.html
Some tips - I only aligned the front burr and got decent results afterward. The rear burr would be a nightmare. Also, I always try and shim under or near the screws when doing alignments to avoid “flexing” the burr once you tighten the screws down - even a microscopic flex can mess things up! This gets much harder with the two screw design of the sculptor burrs. Just be cognizant of the fact that if you apply several layers of tin foil in the middle of two screws, you may want to create some “ramp down” shims to try and even out any possible flex
I backed through Kickstarter and paid £402 for the white 078s. It arrived this week and I’ve jumped from using the built in grinder in the Sage Barista Express and also a Timemore hand grinder occasionally straight to the Sculptor. Man what a difference this unit is. Build quality is very impressive and so is its weight (6.8kg). I have a long way to go before seasoning is complete but I’m already impressed with the shots. I’m glad I backed the project and have no doubt that after market burrs will be released at some point down the line.
Received my 078s yesterday, and the need for seasoning and possibly alignment (haven’t opened it up yet) remain true. Not sure I would have ordered the grinder had I seen this review first.
Oh well, something to tinker with until Gaggiuino parts arrive.
wish you'd review the 078 for pourover as all reviews I've read says it is considerably better than the 78S....also compare the zp6 and 078 would be fun (blind tastings) as many feel the zp6 is close in what the 078 can do.
I’ll reach out to them again and see if they’ll send over a review unit
@@DaddyGotCoffee actually a further suggestion if doable: do blind tastings comparing brews from the commadante c40, zp6, 078 and the zerno
I've seen a Timemore user instruction video where they recommend turning the grinder on, let it get up to speed, and then pour in the coffee beans. Yes you have to place the anti-popcorn lid on quickly after, but I just keep the lid 3/4 on, pour in the beans, and slide the lid shut quickly. Piece of cake!
The hot start recommendation wasn’t available when this video was recorded (my unit shipped before any documentation was ready!) but I came to the conclusion that a hot start was best as well. Thanks for this!
I backed this grinder a bought a Varia vs3 since then and I'm very pleased.
I wonder how they compare
I had to buy a Fellow Opus to tide me over until my 064S finally is delivered.
thank you for the balanced feedback
💪
Great video! Hopefully you get your hands on the 078 for a review next!
Me too 😅
My 078s were delivered this morning. I'm looking forward to new experiences and coffee adventures. Bought this to replace my old Compak R8, hope it was a good decision.
Please follow up and let me know how you get on with it!
Hi. How has your experience with the grinder been so far? Did you have to season it? I've heard of some who didn't have to.
@@brmbltbr4 Hi! Actually no, for a filter it's awesome, for espresso good as well on settings 1-1.5 depending on a roast
@@arogov Nice. Thanks for the answer.
Yes to alignment video please
Hey @daddygotcoffee thanks for the review! I watched your x54 review which made me wish I bought that over the 78s. Now that you've had your hands on both, which grinder would you say is better suited for Espresso the x54 or 78s and why? Thanks for your time
Or if its easier just say which one you prefer 🙏
Haha.. I felt called out. I backed it on kickstarter, and I absolutely can’t get good espresso out of it. So much channeling. Very helpful review, I’m going to set up a seasoning station and run a few kilos through it. Should I be concerned about how long I run it at a time? Did you let the motor cool off?
were you able to do this? i just got mine and i'm a bit worried how much i should run through it at a time
I ended up reading somewhere online that a cheap way to season new burrs was to buy a bunch of instant rice (NOT regular rice) and I ran about 3 lbs of instant rice through it at different grind adjustments. It’s way better now, getting great spro from it. I would only run a few 100 grams through it at a time, and let it rest.
Hi. I purchased an Ascaso and this grinder after seeing your videos. I’m still a newbie.
Oh man. I am very frustrated with this grinder. 8kg already and it is still all over the place. My timemore hand grinder works flawlessly. This one channels everywhere. I’ll give alignment a try but this would be the first time I do it so wish me luck. It would be great if you could do a video about that.
£400 for the 078s at kickstarter price and it’s competing with a niche duo that is £780 in the UK with two burrs. (i know the Niche is even more expensive everywhere else in the world). In my opinion this makes the 078s a bargain for most coffee enthusiasts. Also the Ode gen 2 is £350 and it can’t do espresso.
Niche Duo with two basic burr sets to me is a bad idea, nobody is going to change it back and forth every time they decide what they want to drink. And if someone only drinks espressos or brew, then they just wasted a pair of burrs. From what I see they didn't even give it a powerful motor going from conical to 83mm flat burrs.
We are living in a good time; I mean, someone can just buy an Ode Gen 2 with SSP MP for brew, then 078S for espresso and some milk coffee. That's like 1k USD to grind any kind of coffee. Or save half the money if they aren't picky on light roast brew or don't do espresso.
Please please please make an alignment video for this grinder?
This is a great review! Keep em up!!!
I've had so many grinders over the last 3 years or so and most don't NEED seasoning. It is NOT acceptable a company gives you an espresso grinder that needs 10kg of coffee through it before it can do espresso as intended. If it's that bad they should really pre season the burrs. Most people who get it are going to expect it to be ready to go out of the box so ill expect a lot of negative reviews and angry customers. Resale value will drop like a rock because everyone will have one up for sale. Reviews like this are very helpful though so more people are aware. Some roasters will sell older or failed roasts for cheap or give em away free so ask some local roasters when you're expecting your grinder to arrive. But its not something the consumer should really have to do.
I’m with you on this. It’s a lot to expect and I don’t think it’s what consumers have come to expect from typical home grinders
I got one of the later deliveries in Canada and they may have fixed the burr issue. People seem to be reporting its fine now before seasoning.
ok, new subscriber here. For espresso what grinder would you recommend? This video shows a lot of frustration on your part. I have an Odyssey Argos and Lagom Mini setup. I would like to turn the mini into dedicated filter grinder since it is better there and get an all arounder that is great for espresso. Would love to know in each price point what the best are. Like a $500 like DF or a $1,500 like Zerno and everything in between. That is my situation.
Well done video. In regards to hot starting, people used to using RDT already use a second vessel to load beans into the hopper (so as to avoid adding moisture to catch cup) so it shouldnt change their workflow much. The magnets should allow you to leave the lid in a halfway open orientation. Was this not the case for your unit? Cheers
I think people have said half way open you still get popcorning, so you do need to slide it fully on fairly early on in the grinding.
Confirmed, you can have it on this way - it’s a little jankier of a fit than when fully closed and you still deal with popcorning
Thank you for amazing review
Happy to help!
Thanks for the video. I funded the 78. I’m curious about your decaf recipes. In my experience decaf doesn’t pull like caffeinated coffee. It can be easier to shift paradigm and think of it as a slightly different beverage.
excellent review ! diserve my sub for sure ! did you seasoned it with 5kg at espresso setting ? i backed it up at the kick starter lunch very very early and im still waiting since im in canada , i'm a bit worried about the narrownest of ajustement for espresso honeslty , i hope that they would have put an endless screw on the top as ajustement
I did season on espresso grind! I’ve seen others say to let it cool down throughout the process and that is a great add! Yes, the narrowness of adjustment especially combined with the normal viewing angle on the markings is something to consider for sure
I have a 78s arriving soon (hopefully) and this has braced me for possibly needing a lot more time than I expected to get it working well. The alignment issue is very disappointing, the amount of seasoning is daunting (time and money involved) and the lack of granularity in the espresso range of grind adjustment is the most disappointing as that one is perhaps the flaw we can't overcome? I would appreciate a video on the best way to check and fix alignment. Thanks.
The slow ramp up and cold start probably isn't going to help your espresso shot flow! Even Timemores manual says to start it and then load the coffee.
I don't understand some peoples obsession with opening and cleaning out grinders so frequently. I'm not opening my grinders unless I'm changing burrs or something is wrong. If you put fresh coffee in you're cleaning out the old coffee.
I have grinders with ssp MP but I've been enjoying the more balanced profile of the 078s so far.
I think they may have fixed the issue with the burrs needing seasoning before they perform well mine seemed good before seasoning. I am putting some coffee through since I got seasoning coffee already.
great review! i think all the people who got the grinder for its kickstarter price of 499usd just made a bargain of a deal (me included lol). In regards to the seasoning i am contacting several local roasters and ask for "waste beans" to run them through my grinder.
Saw other review requires 7kg to season the burr. Great video 👍
Thanks for the review. Would you say the filter coffee produced by the grinder also suffers until the burrs are seasoned? Wondering if I could use this solely for grinding filter coffee until it’s seasoned. Thanks!
I would say the filter improved but not as dramatically as the espresso. Worth a shot! The astringency will definitely taper off with time
The aesthetic of it is awesome, however it seems to be complicated to use . I m looking for a good single dose grinder that is good right out of the box. Obviously, it s not that one.
I currently have a Eureka Silenzio and it was great out of the box .
I would love to see your review between 078s and DUO as I am currently looking for espresso dedicated grinder for my home setup.
Niche Zero. Easy decision
can we get a video on how to align it?
Great review. Can you please do the Eureka Libra next?
Tangential question but I do wonder whether people feel the 064 Turbo needs much seasoning, if only using for filter, vs. all the seasoning needed for one of the esspresso S models?
I haven’t seen this needed in the same way on the turbo versions
strange. I have not heard anyone else mention a need to align the burrs out of the box...
Arrghh..Im having pretty much similar issues as you, despite putting in roughly 6lbs of beans so far. I didnt have to change the 0 point though. The grind is very inconsistent. Ill dial the beans in and get good shots at lets say 2.5 and then randomly without touching the dial, it will be too fine and ill have to tinker with the grind size where now it will be in the 3.5-4 range to get the same grind size (shot times) and then it will be good shots there for a few days and ill start having very runny shots so ill have to move it back to 2ish or re-dial it in. I have to keep redialing it and I have the same beans. This didnt happen with my older grinder with the same beans. Its annoying and Im hoping its a seasoning issue that will work itself out but im 6lb of beans in. When the shots are dialed, they are great but its way more finicky. Anyone else have this experience?
Just got the grinder delivered. Is there a way to determine if the burrs are out of alignment without disassembling it first?
Hi..thank you for the review..do you thinks it acceptable for the manufacturer,producing home grinder that need 5kg of seasoning before it gets good?im getting buyers remorse now after your review..havent receive my kickstarter 078s yet.if i can turn back time,will the fiorenzato allground make more sense?is it better do u think subjective and objectively?sorry for long rant..great review as always,appreciate it
Niche Zero here... idk if I'd spend the additional cash... but for the simplicity/ versatility a niche Duo would be nice if you don't want conical but you want the established build quality of the expected long term investment from Niche 😊. If I had a bit more budget I would almost regret having snagged the Zero.
First I would say, go and watch other reviews - I am convinced I dealt with issues that were not the norm. The AllGround is a great grinder but if you want to single dose I would stick with a grinder built for a single dosing workflow. In my opinion 5kg (which I think is on the lower end, others report 7-10, which lines up with how much coffee I actually put through it even though my actually seasoning run was 5k) is not acceptable. Does it make it a bad grinder? I think that’s for buyers to decide! Happy to answer any more questions.
Jut FYI, you can still cancel your pledge right now, if so inclined. I'm keeping mine since I can get cheap bad roasts to season the burrs with, but I agree that these should arrive pre-seasoned from Timemore.
@@lilteyangthank you..dint know can still do that,will try to msg them and see maybe can reach middle ground..dont mind actually if they willing to preseason with acceptable fee..otherwise 5kg of beans will take almost 10month for me..not hardcore espresso man as you guys..haha
@@DaddyGotCoffeethank you..yeah i seen the aramse review say he need 7kg of seasoning,while lance only started to review after almost 10kg of seasoning if im not mistaken..would u say during seasoning the espresso grind 100%undrinkable or still salvageble with long preinfusion or what not?
What setting is best for seasoning? I'm thinking of making cold brew with the seasoning beans
Do a couple batches of cold brew but doing it at espresso settings will provide a more thorough seasoning
How loud is it when grinding say compared to a eureka Mignon? Thank you. Great review!
Burr alignment tutorial video plz.
how do you like the Burrs for milk drinks? Do they hit the sweet spot to still have enough body to shine through with milk or could you go even further in the modern/clarity direction?
How is it for espresso compared to properly aligned HU64s? More/less body? More/less flavour separation?
@daddygotcoffee for an all arounder would you go with the 078s or df64 with ssp mp? The price is pretty close.
I plan to roast some beans to just yellow and grind those. Should speed up the seasoning substantially
Interesting!
Thank you!
How is the grind retention?
Thanks for the tips! How much beans did you run through the grinder at a time during the 5kg seasoning process? Would also be great to see a video of how you aligned the burrs :)
If you were using either this or the Duo as your ONLY grinder, would the workflow of the Niche still beat out the Timemore even with having to swap out the burrs for different brew methods?
Great question. I hope he answers it.
Sucks that the burrs are not swappable, and that the S version is not a "espresso" burr grinder, in terms of range, and specialty, perhaps. I dont care about pour over, and want best range in espresso. So that takes it out for me.
You don't need to grind coffee to season it if that turns you off.
I pulled the trigger on the kickstarter. Still waiting for its arrival ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hopefully you don’t run into the same issues I did!
I have read the Timemore 064S cleaning is a MAJOR pain in the ass
1000CAD and it comes misaligned and needs 10+ lbs of coffee run through it before it kinda starts to taste good. Yikes. Also I don’t know if it’s just me but I don’t dig the kitchen aid mixer aesthetic.
People said I was crazy when I said the grinder caused problems for espresso on the highest RPM settings, and sprayed and channelled. Got a lot of backlash. Glad it wasn't just my review unit.
Such weird issues with this grinder. I would have been glad if they didn't all do that... :P
“Pretty affordable”
Compared against other comparable grinders, yes.
Fare
Well that doesn't sound very good.
Criticizing the gradually rising rpm is so unfair! 👎The sticker on the lid of the hopper says turn on grinder first, then add coffee. In other words, Timore recommends a hot start. A bit amateurish…
Sorry to burst your bubble but the rpm also slows then speeds back up on hot starts. IMO this is worth mentioning.
@@DaddyGotCoffee I just didn't catch it, or did you not say it on the video? Because why are you commenting on something that happens with a procedure not recommended by the manufacturer and not mentioning the relevant observation that the revs jump even with hot start?
@@vaclavcrk1809 they also don’t recommend disassembling the grinder, but I’m definitely going to do that during testing, check alignments etc. Aside from that, this was a preproduction model that shipped without any of the final documentation from timemore. I test cold starts. And hot starts. In this case, the result was similar 🤷♂️. I’m not beholden to you to test exactly the way you want. If you don’t like my methods, feel free to watch elsewhere.
Nice attitude! So when exactly did you mentioned hot start in the video, please?
I want to apologize for my last comment. We may disagree on the discussion here but this is not how I want to conduct myself.
To answer your most recent question, at 9:45 I say that, in my opinion, the grinder is better suited to hot starts.
First, I'd like to reiterate that this grinder landed with me without any documentation, and that this video was filmed, edited and published before manuals or other documentation from Timemore were publicly available.
Also, the symptom of load based RPM variance is present with both cold and hot starts, and... I explicity mentioned that IMO the grinder is better suited to hot starts - I don't see how this assessment is in any way unfair. I'm actualy surprised that of the long list of issues I had with this grinder, this is the one that you have taken issue with, especially when I addressed it right in the video with an operation recommendation that is in-line with timemores, even while I had no documentation.
Further to your point of fairness, something I had not done prior to this video and may not do again, I shared all of my concerns with the timemore team via email several weeks before this video was recorded or edited. Given my abnormally difficult experience with this grinder I thought it was warranted. Even after following up several times, I received no response.
Even still, in the video I give Timemore the benefit of the doubt, suggesting several times that it's possible some of my issues may be limited to my specific unit, and that people should watch other reviews in addition to mine. In my opinion, this is beyond fair to Timemore.
I am constantly re-evaluating and adding to my grinder testing SOP, so if you have a suggestion or would like to share a different experience with the 078s if you are an owner, feel free to leave a follow up. As long as your comment is not hateful, abusive or profane it will get left up.
I will continue to test grinders outside of grinder manufactures specifications for stress and use-cases that will no doubt happen in real-world use and will not be modifying this video as I feel like I have covered the subject well enough.
This will be my last comment on this thread, thank you for your feedback.
*edited for two small typos
I'm a bit suprised how long it takes the grinder get up to speed (12:00), and I'm wondering what this does to the grind size distribution. Can I suggest a test? Grind 18g, and catch the first, the second, and the third 6 grams separately. Repeat 3 times, then combine the matching portions and pull 3 shots. My guess is they will taste different. Great review btw., I just subscribed 😊.
I just got mine and the manual does say to start the grinder before adding the coffee. I've not noticed any change in pitch when starting the motor. Maybe it's because he's preloading the grinder with beans before switching it on.
I was gonna say. The manual says to hot start the grinder with the cover half open. It sounds like ~2s to get up to speed when I do it correctly which is completely normal. As powerful as P64 is, I still don't cold start it as there's no reason to buy a good grinder and then make the RPM uneven like a cheapo.
Don't really need to ask for a test, it will grind/taste different for sure. Maybe a more meaningful way is to use the RPM dial and do it the correct way, then see for yourself?
I went for the 078S mainly becuase I wanted to buy a good close to end game grinder (for me) at a reasonable price. I'm using the trusty Rancillio Rocky but it's not ideal for single dosing at home but overall makes good espresso. After watching more reviews about seasoning, I'm looking where I can buy old coffee beans
We genuinely adore the 078s! 😄 However, we might despise manual grinding for espresso even more. Regarding the alignment, Lance has a video on it - we aligned it the very day we got it. Our only gripe is with the hopper; it constrains its potential since it doesn't allow for hot grinding because of the popcorn issue.
I'd love to see a review from your side as well. Pretty surprised about the burr alignment. Up until now I only heard stories of well aligned burrs, straight out of the box.
People should be banned from having espressos without manually grinding espresso beans once a week.
Do you need to hot start? I thought it is auger fed anyway, so hot starting shouldn't change anything.
@@lpnew3 it did sound like rpm ramps up slowly under load but mine just be its grinding a smaller amount initially and pitch just changes based on how much its grinding at once or the load of it. Not sure. That's a super slow ramp up if it's what it sounds like.
Thanks for the video, would love to see an alignment tutorial. Just got mine delivered today, and beginning my dialing in process.
I bought an 078s to replace my Sette 270 (way too loud) but even after 10ish KG of seasoning I am getting huge differences in shot times on the same setting (10+ second differences). My sette 270 I could pull identical shots back to back (1-2sec variances). Does this sound like your experience? Do you have any tips for aligning, I saw people online saying the marker test was really hard to do with this.
Alignment was a big pain with this grinder. It’s a huge pain to open up with lots of screws to remove each time. That in and of itself is a big part of what makes things so tedious on this grinder!
Also, because the burrs are a 2 hole design if you put a big shim right in the middle of the area between two screws, it can more easily result in warping of the burr as opposed to an even shim 😵💫 It took me a while. I ended up using graduated shims to try and get a more even result and still didn’t get it quite perfect but workable.
I didn’t shim the rear burr which would be even worse to work on. It took me a while, good luck. I should make an alignment video but in the meantime the Wired Gourmet has a good one
@@DaddyGotCoffee I appreciate the reply! Were your shot time variances so dramatic before alignment?
My 078s arrived and I just aligned it after doing the marker test. I also moved the pin 3 holes counterclockwise for the new zero point. After watching a video from Hoons's Coffee, where he aligned the DF64 simply by changing the orientation of the burrs, I did the same thing with my 078s, although the burrs are only hold by 2 screws. This worked well for the outer and the inner burr and I didnt need to use aluminium foil, so maybe I was just lucky or the burrs were mounted with wrong orientation (chance by 50% because of 2 screws). Another thing I took from Hoon's video is to spin the outer burr by hand. To achieve that you have to remove the spring from the shaft, so that the burrs can touch and than carefully spin the outer burr with the handle. By doing that you can save the whole (re-)assembly process and the aligning process is simplified. Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure if spinning the burr by hand leads to the same result of the marker test when compared to the marker test with a fully assembled 078s. What do you think?
I love Hoon. I always do my wipe test with the grinder fully assembled and the motor running the grinder because (in my mind) it most closely mimics the actual operating mode of the grinder. A hand spin can be good but the tolerances are so tight for espresso (literally microns), any uneven pressure from your hand/arm has the potential to skew the results of the test. I have not done any A/B to determine the accuracy or lack thereof but I just prefer to keep it to the closest to final assembled state.
sounds like a pain in the ass
So it sounds like the grind speed is actually increasing as the grind proceeds; doesn't really inspire confidence in the variable RPM as it sure sound like the RPMs are varying anyway while grinding. Any thoughts on this?
Honestly, research on rpm affecting grind distribution is early which makesd it difficult to speak authoritatively into this with a conclusion. I thought it best to let people listen and make up their own minds. I think your concerns are certainly fair.
Please make that alignment video!
Wow, really solid review! You went above and beyond with this one, thanks so much! I feel like the challenge of using the dial has me more worried about the 078S than anything else. If I'm using the grinder for both filter and espresso daily, how challenging is it to get back to a previously dialed in espresso setting? Also, I might have missed this, but did you have a favorite RPM setting? Sounded like something around 1000 or so is where you kept it?
Thank you!!! I will say getting back bang on to the right espresso setting first try is a little tricky unfortunately, or at least it is for me. And yup I’m right up the middle which is 1100
Love to see a shot out of 078s vs Niche (not duo). I backed the 078s for my Flair 58 but I was between these two. I have. C3 Pro Max for pour over I love so the electric grinder is for espresso only. I’m in US so mine has not shipped yet.
What espresso machine u use
Forget I just found out..
Man I was set on synchronica
And now u make drop three more Gs
Wich I don’t have 😅
Good, well balanced review. I backed an 078s, and while the excitement of getting it sometime in the future has waned, it'll still be a nice upgrade from my Mignon Manuale. I'll just be sure to get a LOT of free coffee for seasoning.
Definitely want to get some instructions to align the burs- even if someone can point me to a more general resource?
Thank you for a Beautiful video and very informative review. I am not sure if you answered this question before but after moving the pin 2 positions to the left what is the new range for espresso and pour over with medium-dark roast.
I found I was doing pour over around 13 with that setting. Espresso will really vary depending upon coffee, dose etc. I was usually between 1.5-3 personally
Taller hopper and better dial mod accesories are confirmed in the KS comments. My friend is getting his 078s soon and Im excited to see what it can do - cant wait for the 078 i backed to arrive though
Got any links to where these things are "confirmed in the KS comments?"
very surpised that you found that 078s perform better in filter than Duo's Filter burr.... well i don't own either of these, so i am not affected.. but 83mm Mazzer burrs are being used in high end Mazzer grinders.. oh!!!!!!! i think this is a good surprise
I think both grinders perform well, however (in my experience), the 078s gives a clearer filter cup, while the mazzers give slightly more complexity. Between the two, I did prefer the 078s.
@@DaddyGotCoffee tks for the detailed explanation. it helps alot.
Is the 78S the best grinder for filter coffee I am assuming that’s what you’re saying? As you were discussing the SSP, Niche Zero, and Niche duo all at the same time. Which was super helpful and my favorite part of the video I might add.
I@@MeganWaylett If I was buying for filter only it would definitely be the 078 over the 078s. When it comes to the 078s, I get a hair more complexity from the 151F mazzer in the niche - I'm not even sure I would pick it up if I hadn't done it side by side but yes, the 078s edges it out - but only barely and for my taste.
My fave in house burrs that get the most use for filter are EK43 stock and Pietro pro-brew. I am very excited to try the new Mazzer 64mm with similar geometry to 64mm MP's. I am assuming they will be close to SSP profile and WAYYYY cheaper.
Nice review, I am waiting for my 078, I don't do espresso, only pour-over. Currently, I have a Niche Zero, and I do love the machine with some basic workaround, makes very good coffee.
Your world is gonna change when the 078 comes in!
Burr alignment video please! 🙌
Just do it already
What basket do you use for the espresso (at ~12:40)?
That’s an 18g precision basket that comes with the Ascaso bottomless!
My wife accidentally broke our K Ultra. So I am in the market for an all purpose grinder.
She drinks filter and I drink espresso and lungo.
It’s been super challenging to find an electric grinder that can do it all.
I backed the 78S. I am still waiting for it. I wonder when US shipping will start. I am excited!
Thank you
Of course!
One thing no one method before, it is true as the burr is vertical, one of the burr would always be mostly using the bottle parts only ! Which cause uneven wear
I would like to know whether you would choose the Duo over 078s even though it is a little more costly.
thanks for the video! lines up pretty much with Aramse’s experience (including massive seasoning) … i can’t wait to get mine (early kickstarter backer) in Canada!!
My kingdom for a perfect (and not prohibitively expensive) grinder! 😄
Thanks for the great review!
I have timemore hand grinder and love the product! hopefully they can fix all the issues you mentioned in the future, thank you for great review!