Being Danish, I find it hard to believe in intelligence east of Øresund. 😁😁😁😉 Just joke between brother countries. Edit: For non-Nordic readers here, it's normal we make jokes of each other (countries). BTW, do you know what a high rise building is named in Norwegian?..............................Cabin on cabin on cabin on cabin on cabin on cabin on cabin 😁😁😉😉
I agree. In Sweden we have a saying: “Danish people speak like they have their mouths full of porridge”. I like Danish though, I think it’s kind of cozy.
I write in my own northern dialect. I love it. However people online always tell me they can’t understand me. Which I think is bs and that they’re simply not taking an extra second to read it, because they’re so used to reading through bokmål quickly. My dialect isn’t *that* different. I used to hate nynorsk. A lot. But lately I hate bokmål even more. I feel really fake when writing bokmål, because when I read the words in my head, it’s so different from my dialect (more different when hearing it spoken than when written down), and because it sounds so different, it feels like the words I’m writing doesn’t come from me. So I heavily prefer my dialect. But I’ve lowkey been considering trying to get into nynorsk. Because people are like «write bokmål or nynorsk!». Bokmål is painful for me to write. Nynorsk isn’t exactly my dialect, but it’s way closer to my dialect than bokmål. So therefore I’m here watching videos about nynorsk at 1am. I did kinda well on that subject in school, wish I didn’t forget nearly everything I ever learnt in school.
Where in northern-Norway do you live (if you don't mind my asking)? Most northern norwegians that i see prefer bokmål (because it's closer to the way they speak apparently
I am British and learned bokmål/Vestkantsmål. I speak it quite fluently but I don't understand other Norwegian dialects or Nynorsk well. I think many people from Oslo have much of the same problem even if they had Nynorsk at school.
I came from Greece and moved to Sogn og fjordane but studied bokmål. So I’m already combining it a bit. I saw how people in the north write after a while. Æ indres of Jeg or Eg. Sounds good to me.
''The language that vikings spoke is what we today call Bokmål'' That is just a blatant lie The Norse language that vikings spoke is far FAR closer to Nynorsk than it is to Bokmål. Nynorsk (landsmål) was literally a continuation of middle norwegian, which used the dialects to see how middle norwegian would have evolved untill the 1800s when landsmål was created, with some more systematic grammar. Nearly every word from norse exists in nynorsk, but that isn't always the case for bokmål, and when it does, nynorsk is much closer to the norse spelling. Norse used the words: Segja (seie), Vatn, leik, stova. and a whole lot others has almost not changed in Nynorsk, but in bokmål these change to si, vann, lek, stue. See which one is closer? Also Nynorsk is not ''newer'' than Bokmål, only danish is, Landmål (nynorsk) was created in 1863 while riksmål (bokmål) didn't split from danish untill 1907.
@@olimiardomago2644 but even that is wrong, because the writen middle norwegian language more or less died when the black plague arrived, the educated who knew how to write it perished and so did the (writen) language, so then we just switched to danish. Bokmål is only a continuation of the danish language with some norwegian influence, meanwhile nynorsk was a continuation of middle norwegian because all norwegian dialects had evolved from old norse and middle norwegian. Nynorsk is essentially (probably) how norwegians would write today if the writen middle norwegian language never died out, or atleast something close to it.
Seie also used to be written as "segja" in Nynorsk, until they changed it to be more phonetic later on. Just saying this to prove your point even more lol. The same happened with a lot of spelling in Nynorsk. For example "ei gjenta" became "ei jente" to make it closer to Bokmål. Nynorsk actually desereves some credit for generally being a much better constructed language than Bokmål by consistently respecting historical spelling. Bokmål is more just Danish with Oslo dialect words halfassedly put in as standin for previous Danish vocabulary. I am not even necessarily trying to hate on Bokmål; I just think Nynorsk deserves WAY more credit here than people give it.
@@Firegroupfugl I know, users of høgnorsk use segja and a few use gjente. I think the main reason why it became jenta instead of gjenta was to avoid the confusion between jente and gjentaka. But to be fair, most of the nynorsk reforms done by språkrådet after 1938 make very little sense.
Takk for videoen! I'm a learner and was very confused about this at first. And now I find myself having to explain Bokmaal and Nynorsk to others. Now I can just link them to this video. :D
Glad you liked it! If you have any other questions about Norwegian, feel free to ask and I'll try to make a video about it. I'm currently working on a video about Norwegian dialects :)
Hmmm, that's very interesting. How/where did you learn nynorsk? Is there a course online for it? Or did you just read enough untill you had an understanding of it? I often tell people that want to live in Norway to learn nynorsk so they can get a good understanding of the different dialects, but there isn't a lot of places to actually study or learn it.
I’m learning bokmål (the only one I can learn), but I have to say that Nynorsk is much more representative of the country than Bokmål. Bokmål is just Danish spoken by Norwegians, thus a foreign language. Norwegian should have its own language.
We do, but due to the situation with the upperclass having more power and forcing through bokmål we still have norwegian and danish-norwegian. And since the bokmål has always been more dominant in cities and media and so-on most people are used to that and have an easier time learning it.
I think the video was confusing as it claimed that bokmål came from the Norwegian Norse. Bokmål definitively came from Danish, whereas Nynorsk came from West Norse. Also, I don't think people should put so much weight into how many people use each one when they write as Nynorsk is far more representative of the actual dialects outside of rural East Norway.
Very true, nynorsk is much closer to old norse than bokmål is (høgnorsk and landsmål are even closer) Bokmål can't even be compared, danish has changed too much from it's old norse roots to actually see the resemblence. Also, bokmål didn't even exist back during the viking age.
Exactly. Came to the comments to look for this. Bokmål is heavily influenced by Danish. Bokmål has its name for this very reason; Bokmål under danish rule was used about the language of the church and written language in general. (Norway got the bible first in Danish) "Bokmål" as a name for the written language was used opposite to dialects and the way we spoke; which then was called "landsmål". The whole reasoning behind constructing Nynorsk was to be more representative of how Norwegians speak by combining a few select dialects - after we were independent from danish rule. Neither language honestly does a good job at capturing the wealth, nuance and richness of the Norwegian language - but they function as good anchors for common understanding.
I came to Oslo from different country and started to learn nynorsk just because when it was about adding a norwegian keyboard on my phone, I saw that "New Norwegian" and thought that is a something... New and current now? Well, now I'm just gonna moving forward with learning this "vikings' and poet's writing form" 🤣🤣
The cities tend to use Bokmål even here in the West like Bergen and Ålesund, even though most of the Western countryside uses Nynorsk. I am from the West myself, and in fact I lived first close to Bergen and now close to Ålesund, so I can tell you that you'll see Nynorsk signs outside those cities but it switches to Bokmål within them.
One question: if, as you said, bokmál (Danish language with norwegian pronounciation) is natural norwegian language, and nynorsk (Norwegian language based on natural vernacular dialects on norwegians) is constructed language, then what is the logic and logical thing?
The fact that Nynorsk is contructed actually is very logical, older versions of nynorsk (landsmål and høgnorsk) actually had a much simpler and straightforward grammar and writing, but the 'norwegian language council' changed that around the 1940s and the usage of Nynorsk fell after that. However nynorsk is more representative for the majority of norwegian dialects so that's why it's in use, it also is much closer to old norse than bokmål is and therefore has a richer historical value than bokmål does.
Neither is constructed. Both reflects the way Norwegians speak, Bokmal is how Norwegians speak Danish with unique pronunciation and often grammar, Nynorsk is how Western Norwegians speak and is descended from the Old Norwegian that was spoken before Danish supremacy in Norway. Neither is artificial, just different forms of spoken. Norwegian Bokmal is why some Norwegians can understand Swedes better than Danes. Old Norwegian and Nynorsk come from the Old West Norse dialect, the same dialect that Icelandic and the Faroese (both Iceland and the Faroe Islands were mostly settled by Norwegians) while Danish and Swedish descend from Old East Norse, which is why "I" in Icelandic and Nynorsk is "Eg", but "Jeg" and "Jag" in Danish/Norwegian Bokmal and Swedish. There other differences, but a single comment wouldn't be able to cover them.
@@CarpetHater Nynorsk is closer to the variety of Old Norse spoken in Norway, Iceland and the Faroe Islands, but Bokmal is closer to the variety of Old Norse spoken in Denmark and Sweden and arguably the parts of England taken over by the Vikings during the Danelaw( although in Old English, "Dane" meant any Scandinavian and not only Danish were called Danes, but it was a mix of Danish and Norwegian vikings that raided England)
You should really consider lowering the music volume, it is really hard to follow you speaking and almost impossible to appreciate the locals speaking the dialects. It is still a great idea for a video though.
In vocabulary east Finnmark dialects may be closer to bokmål, but hardly in grammar, and the tone accent is miles away from east Norwegian. You'd for instance be hard pressed to find a Finnmarking who doesn't say e.g. "Han Olav" or "Ho Kari" when referring to a person. In spoken Norwegian everywhere in Norway (except upper class Bergen and Oslo) you HAVE to use pronouns there. If you say "Kari tok bilen" instead of "Ho Kari tok bilen", you're literally suggesting the name Kari took the car, which is nonsensical, so of course people still understand what you meant. Most Sami people learned Norwegian from interacting with Norwegian-speakers, not in school, and of course those people spoke northern dialects. For that matter, most of the teachers spoke northern dialects too! They were not at all like immigrants who learn Norwegian in a Norwegian course (they of course learn a generic eastern Norwegian)
All norwegians understand bokmål. And many norwegians will tone down their dialect and speak a bit more bokmål when understanding they talk to a foreginer, that do not speaks nearly fluent norwegian
Pretty good video. As a person with a lot of Norwegian friends I can say that I have heard more people speaking their own dialect or Nynorsk instead of bokmål and them actually having a problem with bokmål. Since I’m Swedish I can understand a bit of both. Understanding Norwegian as a whole seems to be easier than reading it for me. I think the dialect around Trondheim seems to be a lot more understandable to a Swedish person than the west dialects but bokmål in my ears sounds very close to Swedish and therefore I can understand it but around Trondheim I feel that I can understand them but they have a few different words but they are still understandable but if you go to the west then that’s where I stop understanding what they’re saying. With a bit of duolingo practice I can understand basically most of what the people in Oslo are saying and having a okay time understanding people a bit more north but understanding people to the west in Norway seems to be impossible to me.
*When I was a university student, I studied bokmål, and within a year I was able to carry on a conversation in it and read some short stories. Unfortunately, I've since forgotten most of it--although I'd like to relearn it when I have the chance. Tusen takk!*
Hi Patrick, and thumbs up! This is a very well-informed video, very objective and accurate. There are not that many videos on UA-cam that manages to cover this topic without being biased by preference towards either one of the two Norwegian languages, which unfortunately leads to disinformation. But you've managed to steer clear of that. Good job! 👍🏻 As a native speaker myself, my written language is "nynorsk", but I also write in Nordfjord-dialect (which is pretty darned similar to nynorsk).
Hej, I once met a Norwegian who spoke such nice and uncommon language to her child. As I know a little of Swedish (and Finnish, Italian..) , I could not relate her talking to any language. It sounded like an exotical secret language. I thought of something a bit like Welsh Gaelic, but there were too many rough sounds. So I asked her. She was friendly and answered that she speaks the old norwegian from the west. And that only a few Norwegians do speak this language. Now I am after nearly 15 years still curious what is the name of her language. I would like to hear it again. Not long ago I heard some islandic talk. That sounded a bit similar but less round.... Happy for helpers 🙏🏼🌞🧡
There’s no old Norwegian from the west. Unless she was actually speaking old Norse which is extinct. So I’m guessing she was just speaking in her western dialect.
Welsh don't speak Gaelic, Welsh is a Cymraic or Brithonic language , like Cornish. The people of West Ireland, West Scotland and formerly the Isle of Man speak Gaelic.. a different tongue altogether.
Fine until 2:45. Claiming Bokmål is an organic evolution of old Norse whereas Nynorsk is "constructed" is false... Bokmål was very much "constructed" too, by Knud Knudsen and his student Jonathan Aars. It was just based on a more gradual reform of Danish spelling.
Jeg er Skotte og boede naesten 3 aar i Danmark og 1 aar i Norge. ( i Oslo ) . Jeg laeser og snakker fast flydende Dansk og har ingen problemer ved at forstaar Norsk . Trods dette er jeg meget glade for at Nynorsk - den rigtige Viking sprog - blir mere og mere populaer !! Og til sidste : Vilke sprog skrev Ibsen i...? Tak!!
As a Swede I've always associated trilling R's and pronounciations like "ishe" (for ikke) with Nynorsk. But by seing your video explains that it's just Bergen accent.
We technically already do, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish are all pretty much just different dialects of the same language, the main reason why they are concidered different languages is mostly because of history and politics. I always use norwegian when i speak with danish or swedish people and there usually isn't a problem, much easier with swedes than danes though.
I gave up both bokmål and nynorsk In Norge unfortunately when you try speaking any with a local they will reply in English 😒 and thanks to that now I’m fluent in Russian, more understanding and less glotal stops!
Well, russians speak English just like 5 year old children in England so that's why they wouldn't switch to English. They just don't know it much. Norwegians mostly speak English with foreign people, because it's easier for them and for the other person. And Norwegians are very good at it so why not. The same will happen in Netherlands. They will also switch to English once they hear you have accent. It happens in many countries. Sweden too, Denmark too. Even Germany sometimes.
Ja, men ein må huska at nynorsk og bokmål er berre skriftmål. Ein snakkar dialekter, ikkje bokmål eller nynorsk sjølv om bokmål kan vera nærmare standard austnorsk som ikkje er so forskjellig frå vikamål. Det kjem an på dialekta som du prøver å forstå òg. Nynorsk er nærmast vestlandske dialekter då det er lettare å forstå dei enn anna dialekter som trøndersk til døme. Uansett er mange dialekter stort sett nærmare nynorsk enn bokmål. Eit døme er at sjølv om trøndersk ikkje er so nær nynorsk som vestlandske dialekter, er trøndersk fortsatt nærmare nynorsk enn bokmål.
Somewhere around that. Most Norwegians have a high level of English anyways because of music, video games and TV though, not really because of school :)
So if Bokmal and Nynorsk are writing systems and not languages, what is a learner supposed to speak? Am I supposed to say: I speak English, French and Welsh and I know a writing system called Bokmal? Get a grip: language is supposed to be about communication, not accentuating differences and constantly scrapping. Languages turned into weapons for internal conflict or past historical resentments are childish and sad.
Everyone in Norway knows bokmal, even if they speak more or less different from it. Understanding someone is a foreginer and not well used to Norwegian, (most) people speaking a dialect similar to nynorsk would adjust and speak a bit closer to bokmål to make you better understand
This is not true. Nynorsk is not a constructed language like how you are presenting it. Nynorsk is based upon what Norwegians speak, from what the Norse spoke. The language that survived the danish occupation. This is the written language that is the Norwegian language. Bokmål is not the Norwegian language as how you describe it. This is false. I study Nordic philology and please stop saying bullshit.
Flott video! Måtte vise den til en kompis fra Portugal som vil studere norsk. De kan litt tysk og en del engelsk så det går nok bra. Denne videoen forklarte hvorfor folk alltid sa til meg at bokmål ikke er en dialekt. Jeg visste ikke forskjellen! XD Jeg trodde dialekten min var bokmål! Hm, tror jeg har en blanding at Oslo og Øst norsk. Jeg skriver til vanlig i bokmål, men vil lære mer nynorsk nå som jeg er eldre.
1:50 Bokmål is not spoken. "Spoken bokmål is standard East Norwegian." I disagree. The speech is free. There are no such as standard when it comes to the natural speech. Only writtens has standards/norms. The term "standard east Norwegian" is a misconseption. I believe it refer to the 1830's. The speech set a standard for the written forms but that is different from a standard speech. It is the constitution. The speech is free. No standardized speech. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. That is different. It refers simply to the way we speak. The only standard is no standard. Thus there are no "standard east Norwegian". Why should east Norwegian be standardized and no other dialects? Do we hear "standard trønders, sørlandsk, vestlandsk, nordnorsk"? No. We don't. There reson is that standard speech does not exist. 2:37 Bokmål is no more natural than nynorsk. Both are writtens. Bokmål is modified from danish. Landsmål had direct link back to west old norse. Why Landsmål had that? Because old west norse evolved naturally into modern Norwegian? Old west norse is not a dead language. It's just modern Norwegian. Nothing dead can evolve. We know this because speech is different from writtens. And if we had standardized speech, the speech may not have evolved. It would be fixed in old west norse. The spoken language is suppose to evolve. It evolves year by year. Sometimes faster. Sometimes slower. Thus there are no standard speech either. This said we may say that old west norse is revitalized as Landsmål. 3:23 It is a lot of misconception what written is. Some think that bokmål and nynorsk are spoken. Thus I'd be careful to say that Ivar Aasen did study how Norwegian sounded. Aasen were more interested in the grammar. That's all he did. He made a grammar for written Norwegian.
"Only writtens has standards/norms." What a confused comment. If that were actually the case, people obviously wouldn't be able to understand each other's speech!
@@usmh If you can find anything about spoken standard in your constitution, sure. This is Norwegian. Our constitution doesn't say a single word about how we should speak. How is that suppose to be enforced? Politce arresting me for speaking wrong? A fee?
@@usmh For all of human history we haven't had a rigid "standard" way of speaking over a large country sized area. Obviously, there are standards and norms for how to speak on the _local_ level, but that doesn't mean that we need or have a whole country wide standard. The original comment's point is that there is no standard country wide spoken language, it varies from place to place and no dialect is more "correct" than any other dialect.
@@MagnsATK98 Except I recommend everybody to stop using terms as "standard" and "norm" in connection to the speech. "Standard" and "norm" is set by the authorities. Writtens are standardized by the authorities. What apply to the speech, we may say "typical" and " more productive". My advice is keep it simple. Keep it simplest possible. Do not use the theory for an el-engine on an internal combustion engine. Sure both are engines but separate the theory. A language consists of both writings and speech but keep them apart. Keep it simple.
This all sound so sureal from an englesh standpoint, as we naturally codeswich betwean diferent registers, academic, formal, informal for general understanding and coloquial in your comunity. Its strange to hear a situation where all these are named and the written standerds are clerely defined
What I find so weird is that 15% still keep using Nynorsk, even though it is not “new” anymore… every other “new” language like Esperanto that didn’t catch on only has like 1% or less of speakers left! Lol
Norge burde kvitte seg med spynorsk(nynorsk) Det er ikke bra at vi er nødt til å lære to forskjellige varianter av språket våres. Lettere å bli flink i Norsk hvis det er bare en variant å lære.
Noreg bør kvitte seg med dansk(bokmål). Det er ikkje bra at vi er nødt til å lære to forskjellige variantar av språket vårt. Det er lettare å bli flink i norsk visst det er berre ein variant å lære.
@@Oddn7751 sant at vi bør lære kun en variant. Men da er det bedre å lære den varianten flertallet kan som er bokmål. Bokmål høres så mye bedre ut også.
@@Black3ight Nynorsk er meir representativt fyr mangfoldet av dialektar me har, dessuten så vil eg segje at dei fleste nordmenn hev ganske god kontroll på norsk mål (språk) uansett om me brukar Nynorsk eller Bokmål, men eg er einig i at karakter fyr sidemål burde fjernas frå skulen. Eller så kunne samnorsk prosjektet bli tekken upp att, berre så lengje nynorsk og bokmål blir representert like mykje.
Noreg bør kvitte seg med dansk(bokmål). Det er ikkje bra at vi er nødt til å lære to forskjellige variantar av språket vårt. Det er lettare å bli flink i norsk visst det er berre ein variant å lære.
Being Swidish I find it very funny that Danish was considered to be an intelligent language
Being Danish, I find it hard to believe in intelligence east of Øresund. 😁😁😁😉
Just joke between brother countries.
Edit: For non-Nordic readers here, it's normal we make jokes of each other (countries). BTW, do you know what a high rise building is named in Norwegian?..............................Cabin on cabin on cabin on cabin on cabin on cabin on cabin 😁😁😉😉
@@Gert-DK yeah, we make cabins taller that your hill that you call your tallest mountain 😉😁
Som dansker synes jeg, at det er sjovt, at du som svensker ikke kan stave til "Swedish"😅😉
@@Hkhjazzthat is actually hilarious, and I’m saying this as a Swede.
I agree. In Sweden we have a saying: “Danish people speak like they have their mouths full of porridge”. I like Danish though, I think it’s kind of cozy.
I write in my own northern dialect. I love it. However people online always tell me they can’t understand me. Which I think is bs and that they’re simply not taking an extra second to read it, because they’re so used to reading through bokmål quickly. My dialect isn’t *that* different. I used to hate nynorsk. A lot. But lately I hate bokmål even more. I feel really fake when writing bokmål, because when I read the words in my head, it’s so different from my dialect (more different when hearing it spoken than when written down), and because it sounds so different, it feels like the words I’m writing doesn’t come from me. So I heavily prefer my dialect. But I’ve lowkey been considering trying to get into nynorsk. Because people are like «write bokmål or nynorsk!». Bokmål is painful for me to write. Nynorsk isn’t exactly my dialect, but it’s way closer to my dialect than bokmål. So therefore I’m here watching videos about nynorsk at 1am. I did kinda well on that subject in school, wish I didn’t forget nearly everything I ever learnt in school.
Where in northern-Norway do you live (if you don't mind my asking)? Most northern norwegians that i see prefer bokmål (because it's closer to the way they speak apparently
I am British and learned bokmål/Vestkantsmål. I speak it quite fluently but I don't understand other Norwegian dialects or Nynorsk well. I think many people from Oslo have much of the same problem even if they had Nynorsk at school.
I came from Greece and moved to Sogn og fjordane but studied bokmål. So I’m already combining it a bit. I saw how people in the north write after a while. Æ indres of Jeg or Eg. Sounds good to me.
@@CarpetHater Bokmål er berre nærmare måli til folk sum talar utvatnat.
@@jiros00 Because Bokmål is Danish.
No, background music please. I want to hear the dialogue.
''The language that vikings spoke is what we today call Bokmål'' That is just a blatant lie
The Norse language that vikings spoke is far FAR closer to Nynorsk than it is to Bokmål. Nynorsk (landsmål) was literally a continuation of middle norwegian, which used the dialects to see how middle norwegian would have evolved untill the 1800s when landsmål was created, with some more systematic grammar. Nearly every word from norse exists in nynorsk, but that isn't always the case for bokmål, and when it does, nynorsk is much closer to the norse spelling. Norse used the words: Segja (seie), Vatn, leik, stova. and a whole lot others has almost not changed in Nynorsk, but in bokmål these change to si, vann, lek, stue.
See which one is closer?
Also Nynorsk is not ''newer'' than Bokmål, only danish is, Landmål (nynorsk) was created in 1863 while riksmål (bokmål) didn't split from danish untill 1907.
This is a very underrated comment!
i guess he said the Bokmål is an evolution with the danishdom in Norway. Not the Bokmål is the closest language to Old Norse
@@olimiardomago2644 but even that is wrong, because the writen middle norwegian language more or less died when the black plague arrived, the educated who knew how to write it perished and so did the (writen) language, so then we just switched to danish.
Bokmål is only a continuation of the danish language with some norwegian influence, meanwhile nynorsk was a continuation of middle norwegian because all norwegian dialects had evolved from old norse and middle norwegian.
Nynorsk is essentially (probably) how norwegians would write today if the writen middle norwegian language never died out, or atleast something close to it.
Seie also used to be written as "segja" in Nynorsk, until they changed it to be more phonetic later on. Just saying this to prove your point even more lol. The same happened with a lot of spelling in Nynorsk. For example "ei gjenta" became "ei jente" to make it closer to Bokmål. Nynorsk actually desereves some credit for generally being a much better constructed language than Bokmål by consistently respecting historical spelling. Bokmål is more just Danish with Oslo dialect words halfassedly put in as standin for previous Danish vocabulary. I am not even necessarily trying to hate on Bokmål; I just think Nynorsk deserves WAY more credit here than people give it.
@@Firegroupfugl I know, users of høgnorsk use segja and a few use gjente.
I think the main reason why it became jenta instead of gjenta was to avoid the confusion between jente and gjentaka.
But to be fair, most of the nynorsk reforms done by språkrådet after 1938 make very little sense.
The music is too loud :(
Takk for videoen! I'm a learner and was very confused about this at first. And now I find myself having to explain Bokmaal and Nynorsk to others. Now I can just link them to this video. :D
Glad you liked it! If you have any other questions about Norwegian, feel free to ask and I'll try to make a video about it. I'm currently working on a video about Norwegian dialects :)
"Danish, the language of the intellectuals"
Yeahhh, sure dude
Yeah danish should have stayed in Denmark, i don’t hate it but i don’t like bokmål
pity the music was so loud one couldn't hear what the people said.
It's very hard to hear with the loud music in the background.
Nynorsk seems to be the way to go.
The funny thing is as i started to learn Norwegian i started to learn Nynorsk without even knowing what Bokmål or Nynorsk is 🤣
Hmmm, that's very interesting. How/where did you learn nynorsk? Is there a course online for it? Or did you just read enough untill you had an understanding of it? I often tell people that want to live in Norway to learn nynorsk so they can get a good understanding of the different dialects, but there isn't a lot of places to actually study or learn it.
@@CarpetHater well I watched a few videos etc and toke some notes but after I saw that there is Nynorsk and Bokmål.
I’m learning bokmål (the only one I can learn), but I have to say that Nynorsk is much more representative of the country than Bokmål. Bokmål is just Danish spoken by Norwegians, thus a foreign language. Norwegian should have its own language.
We do, but due to the situation with the upperclass having more power and forcing through bokmål we still have norwegian and danish-norwegian. And since the bokmål has always been more dominant in cities and media and so-on most people are used to that and have an easier time learning it.
I think the video was confusing as it claimed that bokmål came from the Norwegian Norse. Bokmål definitively came from Danish, whereas Nynorsk came from West Norse.
Also, I don't think people should put so much weight into how many people use each one when they write as Nynorsk is far more representative of the actual dialects outside of rural East Norway.
Very true, nynorsk is much closer to old norse than bokmål is (høgnorsk and landsmål are even closer)
Bokmål can't even be compared, danish has changed too much from it's old norse roots to actually see the resemblence.
Also, bokmål didn't even exist back during the viking age.
Agreed. Patrick is coming of a bit biased towards bokmål. It is an ok video nonetheless
@@MarkusHelgason Ok video yes, but has a couple of inaccurasies, and that isn't okay for a video that claims to be "educational"
Exactly. Came to the comments to look for this. Bokmål is heavily influenced by Danish. Bokmål has its name for this very reason; Bokmål under danish rule was used about the language of the church and written language in general. (Norway got the bible first in Danish)
"Bokmål" as a name for the written language was used opposite to dialects and the way we spoke; which then was called "landsmål".
The whole reasoning behind constructing Nynorsk was to be more representative of how Norwegians speak by combining a few select dialects - after we were independent from danish rule.
Neither language honestly does a good job at capturing the wealth, nuance and richness of the Norwegian language - but they function as good anchors for common understanding.
I came to Oslo from different country and started to learn nynorsk just because when it was about adding a norwegian keyboard on my phone, I saw that "New Norwegian" and thought that is a something... New and current now? Well, now I'm just gonna moving forward with learning this "vikings' and poet's writing form" 🤣🤣
If I go to places like Bergen, or Ålesund, do I see a lot of street signs written in Nynorsk?
The cities tend to use Bokmål even here in the West like Bergen and Ålesund, even though most of the Western countryside uses Nynorsk. I am from the West myself, and in fact I lived first close to Bergen and now close to Ålesund, so I can tell you that you'll see Nynorsk signs outside those cities but it switches to Bokmål within them.
One question: if, as you said, bokmál (Danish language with norwegian pronounciation) is natural norwegian language, and nynorsk (Norwegian language based on natural vernacular dialects on norwegians) is constructed language, then what is the logic and logical thing?
The fact that Nynorsk is contructed actually is very logical, older versions of nynorsk (landsmål and høgnorsk) actually had a much simpler and straightforward grammar and writing, but the 'norwegian language council' changed that around the 1940s and the usage of Nynorsk fell after that.
However nynorsk is more representative for the majority of norwegian dialects so that's why it's in use, it also is much closer to old norse than bokmål is and therefore has a richer historical value than bokmål does.
Neither is constructed. Both reflects the way Norwegians speak, Bokmal is how Norwegians speak Danish with unique pronunciation and often grammar, Nynorsk is how Western Norwegians speak and is descended from the Old Norwegian that was spoken before Danish supremacy in Norway. Neither is artificial, just different forms of spoken. Norwegian Bokmal is why some Norwegians can understand Swedes better than Danes. Old Norwegian and Nynorsk come from the Old West Norse dialect, the same dialect that Icelandic and the Faroese (both Iceland and the Faroe Islands were mostly settled by Norwegians) while Danish and Swedish descend from Old East Norse, which is why "I" in Icelandic and Nynorsk is "Eg", but "Jeg" and "Jag" in Danish/Norwegian Bokmal and Swedish. There other differences, but a single comment wouldn't be able to cover them.
@@CarpetHater Nynorsk is closer to the variety of Old Norse spoken in Norway, Iceland and the Faroe Islands, but Bokmal is closer to the variety of Old Norse spoken in Denmark and Sweden and arguably the parts of England taken over by the Vikings during the Danelaw( although in Old English, "Dane" meant any Scandinavian and not only Danish were called Danes, but it was a mix of Danish and Norwegian vikings that raided England)
I love Nynorsk
You should really consider lowering the music volume, it is really hard to follow you speaking and almost impossible to appreciate the locals speaking the dialects. It is still a great idea for a video though.
Nynorsk is much more authentic than Båkmal
Not to prove you wrong, but the closest you get to bokmål is in Finnmark because once they spoke samisk and then they where forced to learn bokmål
In vocabulary east Finnmark dialects may be closer to bokmål, but hardly in grammar, and the tone accent is miles away from east Norwegian. You'd for instance be hard pressed to find a Finnmarking who doesn't say e.g. "Han Olav" or "Ho Kari" when referring to a person.
In spoken Norwegian everywhere in Norway (except upper class Bergen and Oslo) you HAVE to use pronouns there. If you say "Kari tok bilen" instead of "Ho Kari tok bilen", you're literally suggesting the name Kari took the car, which is nonsensical, so of course people still understand what you meant.
Most Sami people learned Norwegian from interacting with Norwegian-speakers, not in school, and of course those people spoke northern dialects. For that matter, most of the teachers spoke northern dialects too! They were not at all like immigrants who learn Norwegian in a Norwegian course (they of course learn a generic eastern Norwegian)
So what am I supposed to say when speaking Norwegian out loud? As a foreigner I don't know any dialects, I just know some bokmål.
All norwegians understand bokmål. And many norwegians will tone down their dialect and speak a bit more bokmål when understanding they talk to a foreginer, that do not speaks nearly fluent norwegian
This Mellom Bakkar song is is beautiful like this and in metal , and any other forms !
Pretty good video.
As a person with a lot of Norwegian friends I can say that I have heard more people speaking their own dialect or Nynorsk instead of bokmål and them actually having a problem with bokmål.
Since I’m Swedish I can understand a bit of both.
Understanding Norwegian as a whole seems to be easier than reading it for me.
I think the dialect around Trondheim seems to be a lot more understandable to a Swedish person than the west dialects but bokmål in my ears sounds very close to Swedish and therefore I can understand it but around Trondheim I feel that I can understand them but they have a few different words but they are still understandable but if you go to the west then that’s where I stop understanding what they’re saying.
With a bit of duolingo practice I can understand basically most of what the people in Oslo are saying and having a okay time understanding people a bit more north but understanding people to the west in Norway seems to be impossible to me.
*When I was a university student, I studied bokmål, and within a year I was able to carry on a conversation in it and read some short stories. Unfortunately, I've since forgotten most of it--although I'd like to relearn it when I have the chance. Tusen takk!*
Hva er mest vanlig for det engelske ordet" black", svart eller sort?
In Oslo we use svart more
Hi Patrick, and thumbs up! This is a very well-informed video, very objective and accurate.
There are not that many videos on UA-cam that manages to cover this topic without being biased by preference towards either one of the two Norwegian languages, which unfortunately leads to disinformation. But you've managed to steer clear of that. Good job! 👍🏻
As a native speaker myself, my written language is "nynorsk", but I also write in Nordfjord-dialect (which is pretty darned similar to nynorsk).
This must sound complicated for people that don’t speak Norwegian or know it😅😂Men jeg syns det var bra forklart, og man ser at jeg skriver bokmål😆😌
I need to see a movie about mr Ivar doing that... imagine the catch phrases ;)
Man, you have a killer american accent🤘😃 Nydelig!!🔥🎶
Hej, I once met a Norwegian who spoke such nice and uncommon language to her child. As I know a little of Swedish (and Finnish, Italian..) , I could not relate her talking to any language. It sounded like an exotical secret language. I thought of something a bit like Welsh Gaelic, but there were too many rough sounds. So I asked her. She was friendly and answered that she speaks the old norwegian from the west. And that only a few Norwegians do speak this language. Now I am after nearly 15 years still curious what is the name of her language. I would like to hear it again. Not long ago I heard some islandic talk. That sounded a bit similar but less round....
Happy for helpers 🙏🏼🌞🧡
There’s no old Norwegian from the west. Unless she was actually speaking old Norse which is extinct. So I’m guessing she was just speaking in her western dialect.
Welsh is spoken in Wales ; Gaelic is spoken in Scotland (Scottish Gaelic), Ireland (Irish) and Isle of Man (Manx). There's no "Welsh Gaelic".
Welsh don't speak Gaelic, Welsh is a Cymraic or Brithonic language , like Cornish. The people of West Ireland, West Scotland and formerly the Isle of Man speak Gaelic.. a different tongue altogether.
Fine until 2:45. Claiming Bokmål is an organic evolution of old Norse whereas Nynorsk is "constructed" is false... Bokmål was very much "constructed" too, by Knud Knudsen and his student Jonathan Aars. It was just based on a more gradual reform of Danish spelling.
Skip the music, it makes the spoken word difficult to hear...
Nice video but u got any sources you maybe could link?
Very interesting, thank you!
Jeg er Skotte og boede naesten 3 aar i Danmark og 1 aar
i Norge. ( i Oslo ) . Jeg laeser og snakker fast flydende
Dansk og har ingen problemer ved at forstaar Norsk .
Trods dette er jeg meget glade for at Nynorsk - den rigtige
Viking sprog - blir mere og mere populaer !!
Og til sidste : Vilke sprog skrev Ibsen i...? Tak!!
Henrik Ibsen skreiv på 1800-tallet og då var Dansk og Bokmål (riksmål) nestan identiske, så Ibsen skreiv meir eller mindre på Dansk.
Bokmål seems so much easier! I'm Swedish, but i want to learn how to speak it and write it
As a Swede I've always associated trilling R's and pronounciations like "ishe" (for ikke) with Nynorsk. But by seing your video explains that it's just Bergen accent.
Wouldn't it be awesome if we just had one language in Scandinavia. Then we could all speak to each other and we would be more united.
That’s just childish thinking
I mean we understand each other pretty well regardless.
@@WhatAboutDaDodo yeah but its not the same.
You already have that :D. It's called English.
We technically already do, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish are all pretty much just different dialects of the same language, the main reason why they are concidered different languages is mostly because of history and politics. I always use norwegian when i speak with danish or swedish people and there usually isn't a problem, much easier with swedes than danes though.
My Norwegian relatives thunk Nynorsk just sounds wierd.
I gave up both bokmål and nynorsk
In Norge unfortunately when you try speaking any with a local they will reply in English
😒 and thanks to that now I’m fluent in Russian, more understanding and less glotal stops!
Well, russians speak English just like 5 year old children in England so that's why they wouldn't switch to English. They just don't know it much. Norwegians mostly speak English with foreign people, because it's easier for them and for the other person. And Norwegians are very good at it so why not. The same will happen in Netherlands. They will also switch to English once they hear you have accent. It happens in many countries. Sweden too, Denmark too. Even Germany sometimes.
I use my dialect "Totning" xD
Fantastisk video Patrick!
Norse is much much MUCH closer to nynorsk than bokmål. Bokmål is a norwegianized danish. Stop spreading disinformation.
Hvis man skjønner nynorsk, er det lettere å forestå dialekter?
Ja, men ein må huska at nynorsk og bokmål er berre skriftmål. Ein snakkar dialekter, ikkje bokmål eller nynorsk sjølv om bokmål kan vera nærmare standard austnorsk som ikkje er so forskjellig frå vikamål. Det kjem an på dialekta som du prøver å forstå òg. Nynorsk er nærmast vestlandske dialekter då det er lettare å forstå dei enn anna dialekter som trøndersk til døme. Uansett er mange dialekter stort sett nærmare nynorsk enn bokmål. Eit døme er at sjølv om trøndersk ikkje er so nær nynorsk som vestlandske dialekter, er trøndersk fortsatt nærmare nynorsk enn bokmål.
@@splooey2151 Tusen takk!
@@hijackbyejack1729 berre hyggeleg
@@splooey2151 også, hva slags dialekt har du?
@@hijackbyejack1729 eg er ikkje nordmann men eg prøver å snakka vossamål.
Bloody hell this is complicated. On top of that I believe Norwegians spend 10 years at school learning English. Is that correct?
Somewhere around that. Most Norwegians have a high level of English anyways because of music, video games and TV though, not really because of school :)
So if Bokmal and Nynorsk are writing systems and not languages, what is a learner supposed to speak? Am I supposed to say: I speak English, French and Welsh and I know a writing system called Bokmal? Get a grip: language is supposed to be about communication, not accentuating differences and constantly scrapping. Languages turned into weapons for internal conflict or past historical resentments are childish and sad.
Jeg skriver i bokmål dialekt. Men jeg er fra USA så ja veldig gøy
Wait I’m still confused, if i learnt bokmal and I spoke to someone who only knew nynorsk would I be able to understand them (speaking not writing)
No one speaks bokmål or nynorsk. Do your homework.
Everyone in Norway knows bokmal, even if they speak more or less different from it. Understanding someone is a foreginer and not well used to Norwegian, (most) people speaking a dialect similar to nynorsk would adjust and speak a bit closer to bokmål to make you better understand
Extremely informative video. You nailed it. I use Bokmål btw.
This is not true. Nynorsk is not a constructed language like how you are presenting it. Nynorsk is based upon what Norwegians speak, from what the Norse spoke. The language that survived the danish occupation. This is the written language that is the Norwegian language. Bokmål is not the Norwegian language as how you describe it. This is false.
I study Nordic philology and please stop saying bullshit.
ohh ok thanks
Flott video! Måtte vise den til en kompis fra Portugal som vil studere norsk. De kan litt tysk og en del engelsk så det går nok bra. Denne videoen forklarte hvorfor folk alltid sa til meg at bokmål ikke er en dialekt. Jeg visste ikke forskjellen! XD Jeg trodde dialekten min var bokmål! Hm, tror jeg har en blanding at Oslo og Øst norsk. Jeg skriver til vanlig i bokmål, men vil lære mer nynorsk nå som jeg er eldre.
Can't listen to this, the music is too loud.
I use bokmål too ^^
1:50 Bokmål is not spoken. "Spoken bokmål is standard East Norwegian." I disagree. The speech is free. There are no such as standard when it comes to the natural speech. Only writtens has standards/norms. The term "standard east Norwegian" is a misconseption. I believe it refer to the 1830's. The speech set a standard for the written forms but that is different from a standard speech. It is the constitution. The speech is free. No standardized speech. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. That is different. It refers simply to the way we speak. The only standard is no standard. Thus there are no "standard east Norwegian". Why should east Norwegian be standardized and no other dialects? Do we hear "standard trønders, sørlandsk, vestlandsk, nordnorsk"? No. We don't. There reson is that standard speech does not exist.
2:37 Bokmål is no more natural than nynorsk. Both are writtens. Bokmål is modified from danish. Landsmål had direct link back to west old norse. Why Landsmål had that? Because old west norse evolved naturally into modern Norwegian? Old west norse is not a dead language. It's just modern Norwegian. Nothing dead can evolve. We know this because speech is different from writtens. And if we had standardized speech, the speech may not have evolved. It would be fixed in old west norse. The spoken language is suppose to evolve. It evolves year by year. Sometimes faster. Sometimes slower. Thus there are no standard speech either. This said we may say that old west norse is revitalized as Landsmål.
3:23 It is a lot of misconception what written is. Some think that bokmål and nynorsk are spoken. Thus I'd be careful to say that Ivar Aasen did study how Norwegian sounded. Aasen were more interested in the grammar. That's all he did. He made a grammar for written Norwegian.
"Only writtens has standards/norms." What a confused comment. If that were actually the case, people obviously wouldn't be able to understand each other's speech!
@@usmh If you can find anything about spoken standard in your constitution, sure. This is Norwegian. Our constitution doesn't say a single word about how we should speak. How is that suppose to be enforced? Politce arresting me for speaking wrong? A fee?
@@usmh For all of human history we haven't had a rigid "standard" way of speaking over a large country sized area. Obviously, there are standards and norms for how to speak on the _local_ level, but that doesn't mean that we need or have a whole country wide standard. The original comment's point is that there is no standard country wide spoken language, it varies from place to place and no dialect is more "correct" than any other dialect.
@@MagnsATK98 Except I recommend everybody to stop using terms as "standard" and "norm" in connection to the speech. "Standard" and "norm" is set by the authorities. Writtens are standardized by the authorities. What apply to the speech, we may say "typical" and " more productive". My advice is keep it simple. Keep it simplest possible. Do not use the theory for an el-engine on an internal combustion engine. Sure both are engines but separate the theory. A language consists of both writings and speech but keep them apart. Keep it simple.
@@exentr Standards and norms don't have to be formal and part of your constitution. They can be social and still valid and effective.
Awesone video. Keep it up
Have you ever listened to your own videos?? Music is louder than your voice!!
bokmål then
En interessant video, men musikken er for høy og irriterende.
Pleeeeease do not put unnecessary background music so loud it's drenching the speach! Totally annoying.
This all sound so sureal from an englesh standpoint, as we naturally codeswich betwean diferent registers, academic, formal, informal for general understanding and coloquial in your comunity. Its strange to hear a situation where all these are named and the written standerds are clerely defined
Don't use background music in a language video. Very annoying.
❤
Jag gillar spaghetti
Same
Bokmål
Bokmål all the Way💪💪💪
What I find so weird is that 15% still keep using Nynorsk, even though it is not “new” anymore… every other “new” language like Esperanto that didn’t catch on only has like 1% or less of speakers left! Lol
BOKMÅL FOR THE WIN.
Norge burde kvitte seg med spynorsk(nynorsk) Det er ikke bra at vi er nødt til å lære to forskjellige varianter av språket våres. Lettere å bli flink i Norsk hvis det er bare en variant å lære.
Norge burde omfavne sin kultur, historie og sine språk.
Noreg bør kvitte seg med dansk(bokmål). Det er ikkje bra at vi er nødt til å lære to forskjellige variantar av språket vårt. Det er lettare å bli flink i norsk visst det er berre ein variant å lære.
@@Oddn7751 sant at vi bør lære kun en variant. Men da er det bedre å lære den varianten flertallet kan som er bokmål. Bokmål høres så mye bedre ut også.
@@Black3ight Nynorsk er meir representativt fyr mangfoldet av dialektar me har, dessuten så vil eg segje at dei fleste nordmenn hev ganske god kontroll på norsk mål (språk) uansett om me brukar Nynorsk eller Bokmål, men eg er einig i at karakter fyr sidemål burde fjernas frå skulen. Eller så kunne samnorsk prosjektet bli tekken upp att, berre så lengje nynorsk og bokmål blir representert like mykje.
Noreg bør kvitte seg med dansk(bokmål). Det er ikkje bra at vi er nødt til å lære to forskjellige variantar av språket vårt. Det er lettare å bli flink i norsk visst det er berre ein variant å lære.