haha thank you! Unlike the mags, I don't rely on the manufacturers for advertising money or free models... so you get the truth from me ;) Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I've seen someone on youtube defending the price of the EFE LSWR Adams 02 saying it was justified because inflation, transport prices going up, pandemic, blablabla, and anyone saying it is awfully expensive has zero education in economics... He just forget to say that the model is a lemon, inpossible to service, with a pointlessly complicated driving train, and abysmal performance in real life that makes it too expensive for a forthcoming shelf queen at short notice... Thanks for your hands-on and screwdriver in hand tests, we know what we are (or are not) buying with you !
Bachmann are taking the mickey in terms of pricing with their locos that still use the 3-pole motors, especially when I can purchase a DCC ready loco with a 5-pole dual-flywheel motor fitted for a much more reasonable price from either Kato or Atlas.
Yep - taking the mickey is right - even if this had all the top modern features... it'd still be borderline extortionate! xD Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I’m so glad I can only afford the occasional second hand loco from my local magical railway shop. Around the 100 quid mark is my limit for a new loco. These prices are simply beyond my pocket. Good review Sam. 🙏
Sure are silly prices. I hardly ever buy new loco's anymore unless they're on cheap offer...assuming they're not sold out on pre-order, another bug bearer of mine, no point buying catalogues anymore! No time to save up, have the money or too late. About £140 is my upper limit and usually I look for older 2nd hand ones. Can detail them myself if needed. It has ruined the hobby in a lot of ways, too many loco's likely won't be able to get now.
@@sparkshot I have a question about a video you made 5 years ago it's you scc loco kit video and I was wondering in there a another website that's similar to alan Gibson I can get parts from?
sam thank you so much i havent watched your videos in ages and just came back but i feel right at home your videos helped me through a tough time thank you so much ❤️
Fair review Sam. A few things I'd like to point out since I've been on and off visiting China for years reviewing business practices. Tooling there is not the cost. Development departments usually go by annual total sum / budget. The main issue there are Wages increasing by 6 - 9% annually. The Yuan is being revaluated frequently but China exports overall have become less ecomical due to ever fast increasing wages (apart from insanely increased rental pricing of shipping containers). This loco does look stunning but is overpriced nonetheless I agree, specially the motor really is from a stone age... How do Bachmann even dare such today... Quality motors (even 3-pole) are to be like high-precision quality watches (they already were in premium brands Fleischmann / Märklin in the 1970s)... Then one can ask (dare I say) the German styled price.
Thanks a lot for sharing - I just think if Oxford can produce a new tooled high quality tender loco for under £100, there's no excuse for Bachmann to be releasing 10 year-old poor quality locos like this for £180... just makes no sense to me! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Indeed Linda. In Guangdong, minimum wage for factory workers has been about 9% increase per year. And remember the other costs such as mandated security guards, cleaners etc. As a brit manufacturing engineer in China I was made redundant, simply cos of labour costs. Tooling is not as cheap as it was, but its still a fraction of what it was in the west. But thing is, the tooling and plant is here in China, and cant be exported. I hate to think what the cost would be if it was made in the west tho 😳😂. But yup, price difference cant be that far apart now, esp at 17k bucks for a 40 foot container 🥵.
As an interesting add. Mould tools and press tools imported into china have to be less than 5 years old. No problem tho, just put a new ID plate on it with a date within 5 years. But once the tools are in China.. they aint getting back out 😂😂
Well... That might be a point to consider : why not manufacture back in the UK if China is becoming expensive ? What you loose on the wages, you can get it back on transportation costs, a post that WILL SHARPLY INCREASE in the forthcoming years. Roco manufactures its models in Romania, there is a reason why...
@@OlivierGabin Tools are still cheap in China. China basically trained up millions of toolmakers while the UK made them redundant and gave them jobs in tesco. A prototype press tool, good for 50k parts costs about 9k GB in China.. 60k in UK. To replace punches etc for 120k parts is maybe 2k in China, 10k in UK. To buy wire eroders or sparkers in China is about 1/4 of the cost in UK. Thats fine for ultra high volume in uk at 700 spm on a press.. high value product.. But model trains are low volume batch stuff. Lots of toolmaker input. Toolmakers I last worked with in UK were 50k gb a head.. in China about 9k gb a year. It comes down to guv policy unfortunately. UK gave up on manufacturing.. China embraced it. And whats worse, no matter what side you voted for, the end result would have been the same. 🤬. 👍. In my experience in China, as a brit design engineer, the brit guys on 100k gb a year in britland do all they can to keep their wage. Not that I am bitter of course 😂😂. Profit margins go up.. supplier costs are driven down. Gone are the days of 10 to 20% profit.. its now 100% profit for the ppl who do least work. The actual difference in cost between a 3 pole and 5 pole moter might be 1 buck.. maybe a weeks work for a toolmaker to mod the tool, costs about 500 quid.. but for the UK guy to send a few emails and maybe do some CAD.. thats gonna cost 3k GB. 👍. Me bitter not 😂😂😂
Strange sort of ‘suicide notes’ when locos like this are flying off the shelf despite the high RRP. What you need to remember is that an awful lot of buyers are either out to recreate a specific area of the country at a specific point in time - they are not into an ‘anything goes 8*4 train set oval or track on the carpet that Sam uses A dukedog or a P2 is pretty useless if modelling a 1930s era railway in Derbyshire and as such the choice is between a dimensional wrong and pretty basic looking Hornby one or the expensive Bachman one that looks the part even if it’s mechanically not as good.
Oof the SHAAAAAAAADE, slaying a "premium" bachmann mechanism with a hornby railroad mechanism. Great review Sam, I definitely believe at a MUCH lower price this loco is a fabulous model.
Great video Sam and as usual with Bachman a beautiful looking engine with to high a price tag. Also sometimes with Bachman their mechanisms are not worth the high prices. This is such a let down . This is why your reviews are so important to us in this hobby we are more informed when looking to increase our trains. Keep up the good work from Me and my grandson Thomas .
Oooh I’m excited! I’m quite late too, hehe sorry Sam I had school. Anyway, I’m incredibly hyped for this review! (These reviews allow me to imagine what it’s like to own a model railway hehehehe)
You posted the original review of this loco at the time of the 0-4-0 record run, and during the Twitch stream I asked you to put it and the Hattons P Class inside the circuit of track, amazingly you did just that. Ahh good old memories. 😌
Immediately after watching this review (which is, like all of your reviews, highly instructive and required viewing for me) I watched your 2019 (?) review of the Bachmann WD Austerity 2-8-0 in LMR livery. Fascinating to compare the two reviews side by side and I like your consistency in scoring. Today, 27/9/21, I’ve bought the WD Austerity which I needed for my Teesside-themed layout. (I can forgive the livery as my Dad trained on the LMR as an Army Cadet at school). It’s now discontinued from Bachmann’s range but cost me £139 from my favourite local model railway shop. Similar new in revised LNER livery has an RRP of £169.95, as it was when you reviewed yours. I also bought the Oxford Rail J27 in late BR livery. It looks to be as sweet as you said it was.
Shocking! People need to start asking themselves 'Do I really need this?' when it comes to buying model railway products. Hornby is no better. Ridiculous prices. Good honest review Sam. Many thanks :-)
Even with a high 'Mickey' price for this poor quality loco - but with a 'pretty face' one must admit - the loco sells like cream cakes. At a point that some retailers already sold out ! Bachmann is laughing. So who cares ?? Business as usual for Bachmann. I totally agree with you Sam - I will not pay this price for a mediocre product but most model railroad hobbyist's don't seem to consider - as the reality shows. It's a lost battle but thank you anyway for being 'objective' with your fair review. Happy to know that there are far better alternatives today. For me Bachmann lost the battle a long time ago and I need very strong arguments to ever buy one in the future. I do not like these mafia practices ! Cheers.
Hi Sam, great video. Bachmanns prices are so ridiculous. I can tax and mot my car for a year for less than the price of this loco. Due to the over the top prices of model railway models, I have decided not to buy any more locomotives or stock. My end to end branchline layout has 10 locomotives, around 35 wagons and 8 coaches and I think I have enough. To make another purchase now, the model would have to be something really special. Great informative video. Cheers Chris.
Great video like usual Sam! Despite its flaws I do really like this loco, and I'm looking into getting a DCC fitted one from Clark Railworks! Also, I believe I saw what looked like smoke around the top of the tender when you were testing the crawl of the loco after it was run in. It was probably nothing but you can never be too careful with these models. Keep up the great work! You're a real inspiration to many!
Great review Sam personally I feel you are spot on with your comments as we all know it’s not just Bachmann over pricing there models Hornby is the biggest Micky taker do these manufacturers think we all Have a money tree growing in the garden the best way to go seems to be second hand and I don’t mean these rip off merchants on eBay all the best and keep up your reviews.
Good review Sam. Looks lovely but appears to be all show and no substance or at least badly lacking for that price tag. To put the price in context look at what models you could buy for £180-215. - I've seen Hornby's railroad model going for £60-85 (New) at model shops. Hattons also had the new Hornby D16s going for £58 recently. So you could get at least two, perhaps three Hornby models for the same price or less with better mechanisms (but without the die cast running plate or that livery). - For the same price you could get a newly tooled Hornby Pacific such as the Princess class or A3s with flickering fireboxes. Or the new Clan class or A2 4-6-4s. I'd say that puts the Bachmann model into context. It should be no more than half the price they're charging.
Just in perspective : GBP 215 is 251 €. In HO, you have a Piko BR 82 0-10-0 tank engine for this price. Or a Roco BR 37 2-6-0 tender engine, with a 5 poles motor and headlights... So, zero excuse for Bachmann, I have also seen a Roco BR 023 2-6-2 tender engine for 225 € (GBP 193) with a five pole motor AND a flywheel. So, Bachmann, what's your excuse ? Camelback deliveries from China via the Silk road becoming too expensive with the need to bypass Afghanistan due to the current situation in this country ?
Excellent review of the Midland Compound Sam 👍👍 I do like 4-4-0 models, but this model isn’t really what I really like to get as I’m more into tank engine person. And I personally have a Midland tank engine from Bachmann instead as it work better with the Hatton’s four and/or five wheel coaches. I feel sorry for anyone can’t get this model due to the price and it is a shame as it does have a lovely livery.
I wish Bachmann would have a policy of selling bodies only as well. It might not be much cheaper, as wheels are expensive, but at least one could then get it in EM or P4.
Aha! Sam you have the same disease I have, 4-4-0s. Another very professional review, highly comprehensive and engaging. This hobby is now getting extortionately expensive. I have now given up all hope of owning another layout. Instead I will be donating whatever free cash I have to helping restore full size locomotives, my first as a life time member of the Mid Hants and long time member of the Somerset & Dorset was to help in the restoration of Cheltenham.
haha yeah... just can't fight them off unfortunately! That sounds lovely actually - maybe you could get in on the volunteer scene and play with real trains a while? ;) Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I have had this model as Midland 1000 for over 6 years. It was included as a ‘Thames Clyde Express starter set. It is brilliant and is in complete contrast with what I have heard here. One of my best performers and favourites falling short in your review - what a pity. It is in my opinion, excellent.
Thanks Michael - glad to hear yours was excellent! Objectively this doesn't meet the mechanical standards of a modern £200 locomotive, but sure, decent runners in the right situation! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam, you've been threatening to send locomotives back to the retailers before; I've yet to see if you have in the review yet (I'm up to the Mechanism review), but even before you've run it in, I feel you should send this one back. It's such a waste of your money, there are far better and "multiple" locomotives you can get for that price. Not from Bachmann though, they don't deserve your money.
@@SamsTrains It really is One good thing has come of this though. This video inspired me to buy a used Hornby Railroad LMS Compound on eBay; the Class 1000 you reviewed years ago. I made an offer of £62 for it, and they accepted; considering you paid £55 for yours, I'd say that's a fair price for a currently discontinued locomotive.
I bought one . This is my first Bachmann loco for ages mainly because I object to paying their prices . However the livery on this one was seductive so I relented . The middle tender wheels on mine were loose coming out the box but they seem to have clicked back in place . But I was nervous running it . It is jittery and certainly has a tight spot . It is better above 50% speed and I think it will settle down once run in . It’s not as smooth out of the box as my Hornby A2/2 or Heljan 86 both of which are silky smooth . This I think is second division in running terms . Bachmann have never produced an LMS red compound ( it was released as a limited edition of Midland 1000 before) so there is pent up demand for this , which is why they can get away with charging £215 ! I think it’s Kader looking for a higher margin from their British operation . Bachmann Purchase Tax! Completely agree with your review!
I know this is a late comment, but thought it worth mentioning that the NRM model I have (2nd hand) of Midland Compound no 1000 has better detail. The axles in the chassis are blacked out. Part of the pipework on the boiler is painted copper colour, while there's more extremely fine copper pipework on the smokebox on the other side. The pipework on the lubricators on the running board are also copper painted. The front buffer beam has M and R painted on there, which is lovely. You can only conclude Bachmann is fleecing the buying public for what it can get away with, as well as removing a noticeable amount of detail to save money..
Prices on everything is going up. Issue is the shipping costs have risen which effects raw materials and other components and transport costs in the UK have risen due to the fuel price rises. I don't think we have seen the last of these price rises yet.
Another great review. Thanks. Did I notice a slight error in the yellow lining around the left rear buffer on the tender? It looks extra wide for part of the line . Then the extra width stops abruptly. Or is that a function of the camera angle?
I like the look of the LMS Midland Compound! It’s unfortunate to see yet another expensive price tag and what you get is pretty poor. What’s up with Bachmann using old castings, terrible mechanisms, and putting bad quality locos at high prices?
Hi. I’ve slowly but surely getting through your videos. Do like them. May I suggest a few items to review. Hornby, Bachmann Heljan electric locos. Class 85, 86 an 87. May not be your cup of tea though. Also I remember seeing a train cam on one video you did. Any chance of doing a comparison of train video cameras one day? We do value your opinions. Cheers. Dave.
It looks like Bachman have now entered the (to put it mildly)‘Let’s take the Micky’ club when it comes to price. Maybe the only way to get value for money from Bachmann is to buy a train set like the recent ‘Midlander’ train set which is available for £167.96 from some of the retailers and that includes a great livery Jubilee class, 2 Mk 1 coaches, an oval of track and controller with power supply. (You can always sell the track and controller) Just as a suggestion, the train set could make an interesting review and subsequent competition give away!! Love your channel by the way! Brian.
Hi Sam, It is quite lucky that the price was so high, if it was more in line with expectations (130-140 after retailer discounts) I would have probably picked one up and been forever annoyed by that boiler seam. Had full intentions of getting one when it was first announced.
The difference between the LMS 4P compound and Midland Compound was the driving were larger on the midland. I like any express engine with large driving wheels, very stately
I managed to buy a NRM for £90 so I feel the value was good. I saw the original just after it had been returned to its original form in the 1950s (I think). I was actually disappointed because the chimney and dome weren't the same as the ones I had seen in real life. The colour was spectacular.
hi sam, i am new to this hobby , do you have a video explaining which coaches go with the correct locomotives mainly the diesel and electric, , many thanks keep up the brill videos
due to the LMS having a huge influence in northern Irish railways even running some of the lines there. A slight copy of the LMS compound was produced known as the the GNR(I) V class. It’s one of Ireland’s few operational preserved steam locos ua-cam.com/video/hk6KVrfv4Xc/v-deo.html
Have you ever thought about when quoting an old price from a few years ago saying what it should be now with inflation to see how much more Bachmann is marking its models up by?
Was the red release a limited edition or something that could cause for the price increase? I would love for Sam to consider the livery maybe more desirable than others offered.
I'm with James. Here in the US locomotives are ungodly expensive. Unlike the UK it seems like the manufacturer's don't even want to introduce new model here in the US. .When they do they have DCC installed and want an asking price of close to $1000 US. You gentlemen in the UK should be thankful for what you have.
I find that us locos usually have a lot more details and are generally a hell of a lot bigger han most of the british ones so. Also us locos are usually chipped and sound from the factory nowadays so the price seems more justified.
A dream? I’ve bought way better locos than this from Trainworld with DCC sound... and they were still cheaper than this even after I paid the shipping and customs 😂
Had a look at the ranking for the mechanism and I realized that not even 30 seconds into the video you can see a slight slow down from the loco on the 2nd radius s bend
To think I just bought a Fowler 4P tank, a significantly older model with an updated mechanism and better torque / pulling power, along with three coaches for £98.99.... It's certainly not as pretty as this, but if that's all a loco's got going for it I'll gladly continue to admire its picture online as I run my locos with better mechanisms.
If you are talking about the Fowler 4P train pack - that hung around for ages on the shelves and has been the subject of some significant discounting to shift it! As with everything else you buy, models that are popular will not be discounted as manufacturers seek to make maximum profit while those which sell poorly can be expected to be picked up for lower prices a few months (or years) later on. In fact its quite possible that Hornby may have made a loss on that product - a loss which could of course be balanced out by extra profit made on a popular loco / train pack that sold out while still at RRP.
@@philkeller4170 If it's the same, I have bought one at a severely discounted price, with three coaches and an engine. For the price I paid (less than GBP 200 if I can remember it correctly), it was a good buy.
I love a good red locomotive and this one is a beauty! I’m sorry though that the mechanics aren’t up to snuff. I enjoyed the review (I love 4-4-0’s too)! Stay safe Sam!
I bought one of these a short while ago and it arived yesterday. The Gear axles were painted black on mine. Maybe you got a one-off, without the axles covered? I bought the exact same one you did for this video, so maybe its just an inconsistancy in the construction?
The way things have been going I'm almost shocked that many reviewers haven't blacklisted Bachmann products at this point. xD I still cannot for the life of me figure out who Bachmann's market is at this point - and if Bachmann thinks that market is A) immortal and B) has infinitely deep pockets.
totaly agree, bachmann is pricing the young generation out of the market, bachmann take the mick.thank goodness i have a few Triang locos lying around,
Bachmann have never really been into the young generation market like Hornby have - its simply not profitable or large enough. The real money is to be made selling to older adults / collectors who have the cash to splash.
The thing is, I can afford those prices but I don't want to. I agree with Sam it is too expensive. There is also the point that you can get better models for either the same price or cheaper. I paid £261 for the Hornby Dublo models and I did baulk at the price, but I must admit they are probably worth the money.
@@cbrooks122000 I can afford the price for more expensive engines, and I did so by buying a Roco 2-10-0 with DCC and sound this summer for 350 €, but I want a bang for the Euro spend in return. With zero finish mishaps, a 5 poles motor with a flywheel, a zero-tool DCC decoder installation, a flickering firebox and a Dapol-like tender to engine connexion, I would have accepted the luxury pricetag of this engine. As is, it's a pure an unadulterated NO. Even Hornby does better for less in their railway range with comparable engines...
I honestly think you are right on your comments. Bachmann should at minimum have included a 5 pole motor and flywheel. This is like a Hornby Railroad being charged at Silver Seal pricing......... It's a basic Bachmann that's been given the same price as their premium range.
What a great review Sam. Cheers What a disgustingly ridiculous price. No way will i get one now. I have the Hornby railroad Lms compound from 1980 and it looks and runs beautifully still. Tomorrow I'm going to use the money i saved for 1 of these on a peckett b2 and a deposit on a new dapol class 68 drs. 👍😎
I used the Hargreaves Lansdown calculator that goes up to 2021. Even that only calculates the current price at £173.00. Mind you, freight costs have gone through the roof. From Bloomberg, 'Freight rate increases have been significant - 40-foot containers that cost $2,000 to ship a year ago can cost as much as $20,000 now, depending on circumstances.' My Rapido FP9A is due to arrive soon. Well, it's already arrived in Canada, just waiting for them to send some over here. . Hope the extra shipping costs aren't reflected in the price. The £249.00 estimated cost last December gave me a sweaty brow. :-)
Mmmm, lined LMS Crimson with drop shadow letters and numbers. So scrumptious you could almost eat it. Mind you, I wouldn't buy one in a fit but very lovely to look at. Very just review. 👍😊
A great review Sam , my experience with Bachman are quite mixed. I have five,a BR 5 Mt, a BR 4 4-6-0 and more. Although I bought them new I got excellent prices from Barry at Widnes Model Centre. I personally feel that Bachman will get a wake up call when people stop buying from them.
I'd be willing to bet the high price has to do with Bachmann's output. If you think about it, they were due to release 7 newly tooled locomotives this year (Class 20, Class 24, Class 25, LNER V2, LNWR improved precident, CR 812, and the GWR 94xx). If Bachmann want to keep this pace, they would need higher profit margins to pay for the new toolings, hence why all of their products are very expensive. Oxford Rail,on the other hand, probably don't make nearly the margins that the other manufacturers do, so they can only release a new locomotive once every year or year and a half.
Interesting to consider... I'm in for their V2 and retooled class 20, and I have bought the three versions of their GWR 94xx (yes, I'm nuts). By the way, cutthroat prices on poor models are not a good policy overall... It's not Heljan, which is far worse overall on every point, but if the price does not match the quality, that would be detrimental to their overall sales.
Hi Sam. I think you are right to criticise the price, especially when you say that the Hornby R3276 is better mechanically for considerably less money; £75 v £214 is a joke. Albeit the detailing is far, far superior. the Hornby is just plain black. I have a Hogwarts Express which manages 1st radius track and a 3% incline with the aid of Powerbase magnets and plates under the track, so I was wondering if that the 4-4-0 would also be okay on 1st radius and the incline, with magnets? Do you have an opinion on that please. Also do you know of a non-black, with detail lines, 4-4-0 configuration at the hornby type price ?? I'm a new lockdown railway modeler and need to watch the pennies !!! Keep up the most in-depth and brilliant reviews. Cheers.
there was a lot of comments about prices in the US being more than the UK but in my experience US Locos have sound and DCC fitted as standard in the UK you have to pay more for that
You know, this looks extremely similar to James the Red Engine in Thomas and Friends only with the outside cylinder, driving wheel number, and the pilot wheel truck having four instead of two wheels. Other than those differences, you can definitely see James
Good video. Nice loco but definitely not worth the asking price. Good idea to use the BoE inflation calculator to illustrate how much prices have increased in a relatively short time. Maybe you could include this on a regular basis when reviewing new versions of older locos? Helps to put things into perspective when you realise the value for money we were getting 3/4 years ago relative to now.
And so have several other retailers - which from a Bachmann perspective will tell them that the price is right for the simple reason that there are none hanging round on the shelves requiring deep discounting to shift. In a capitalist setup money talks! Bachmann primarily exist to make profits for the parent Kadder group (who have demanded increased revenues by the way) so complaints about prices will be ignored unless a direct competitor arrives on the scheme or the model is proving hard to sell.
I recently read about toy manufacturing prices and sad to say, material costs, labour costs and postage/export price has increased quite significantly. This has caused prices to increase, so £215 I think is too steep but particularly bachmann have been struggling at the moment I heard, so they are having to cut back. Which is sad because they can't do the best they want because they can't afford to.
Great review and a lot of positives however do any of the regular criticisms of price vs product bother Bachmann? Agree with others that I have a limit on what I am able and prepared to pay however it seems that many are prepared to and do pay these sort of prices and in enough numbers so you can only assume Bachmann feel they can get away with their prices!?
Not a bad model, I'd pay 120 to 150 quid for a 10 plus year old tooled version like this. Over 200? not a chance! I'll make do with my old Hornby one, their RRP is under 95 quid and I paid around 50 for mine. I haven't bought a new Bachmann loco now for almost 2 years because of the crazy pricing for old tooling.
214 uk pounds at current exchange rates equals 402 Australian dollars that is a ripoff, the highest price I would currently pay would be about 300 AUD which is about 159 uk pounds! I gave buying Bachman locos 10 years ago as the quality was inconstant, kept buying their goods wagons for a bit longer, now only by Hornby! Always check your reviews on new issues. Cheers from Aus.
Yes but such a view needs to remember that being accurate to the prototype is just as important. The Hornby model is dimensional inaccurate - a big minus of you are in the business of building a model railway rather than playing with a train set. I have noticed that Sam’s videos do tend to have quite a few inaccuracies when it comes to the background of the real locomotives themselves - yet if directly comparing two products suposadly of the same loco, accuracy to the real thing is just as important as the finish or mechanical detail.
Your right about the price sam, that loco is lovely,but far to expensive, I live in Dublin and my choice is limited as there is only 3 model shops in Ireland owned by the same person and the only choice I have is Bachmann or hornby, I can't order anything from the uk anymore as there is a vat and customs charge which makes it uneconomical for me ☹ great review 👍
Try Hattons. They don't have Bachmann, except second hand, but you don't pay extra duties when you shop from them, they are registered in the Republic of Ireland for the VAT. When they charge you, they includes the VAT, they do the same for me in France.
@@OlivierGabin I have phoned them and they couldn't guarantee me that I wouldn't get a bill at my home, also contacted the Irish postal service and they told me same, thanks anyway 👍
Hey Sam! I got a goodie for you, train world has a bachmann alco 2-6-0 DCC ready (some American train that i bought this week) for 70 USD, I thought it would be cool for you to check out!
Can you use your 3d printer, if you even still use it on the channel to make another speedy pete chain driven locomotive, just thought it would be a fun idea and a throw back to an older video
Nice loco. I do agree that its beautiful to look at but that mechanism isn't that great, but as you said it depends on your layout. Problem is some of these high end price locomotives don't always get run on layouts and are just put in cabinets to be displayed and the performance issues won't matter.
That's really beautiful locomotive it's really nice. I like the wheel Arrangement it's a nice small locomotive very compact. Mixed traffic type love the paint Scheme on the locomotive as well
Classed by the Midland, LMS and British Railways as 4P. As per the box at 4:50. So passenger only. Largely due to the near seven foot diameter wheels built for speed and not pulling power at low speeds. Very rare to see photos other than on passenger trains.
@@johnd8892 it's still a nice engine. I'm a moderator by Trade ifixandrepair Engines it look more horrible than newer Bachmann locomotives do. I've seen the worst of the worst in model railroading. Every locomotive is unique in its own way I've got older engines that are far worse.
@@johnd8892 I'll tell you right now. I like British locomotives. I bought some like their steam engines their experimental types all different kinds season their HO Scale Models look pretty good even the oo gauge locomotives look really good Bachmann has produced some newer locomotives but they've look nice in the past period problem is it's the mechanism. I've dealt with Bachmann mechanisms for years. I'm from the United States. Have you worked on a single locomotive in your lifetime. I've worked on model locomotives all the time. You can complain all you want. It still looks like a nice-looking engine. I would have that in my collection
@@johnd8892 we had the same exact steam locomotives in the United States similar to that wheel arrangement period used for Freight and passenger service mixed traffic locomotives for like the consolidation class. In the United States that welcome motive was built for passenger service and Freight there were some so many interesting designs of these engines are out there
I am still waiting for when Mr.Sam gets a BR class 28, A BR class D16/2, and when he starts an OO9 scale narrow gauge model railway to work along side the railway he has now. The only problem with the BR class 28 and the BR class D16/2 is that Most of them are made by Heljan, I think.
Thanks Sam for a great review. You are absolutely right about the price, that is far too expensive. It will be interesting to see how many they sell. Hornby locos look good value compared to this, even though they charge high prices for old tooled models.
Model loco prices are only going one way im afraid. Shipping costs have gone up enormously, much more then the general rate of inflation, alongside the global container shortage. However, I think in general UK models are generally still quite cheap, compared to say German models, which are usually over £300. Having said that, 5 pole motors, flywheels and glowing forebox should be completely standard now.
It is indeed attractive, but do note my opinion is not at all impartial; that LMS maroon has been a favorite since learning of it here across the pond in the 1970s!
I don't understand why Bachmann insists on using the same old 3-pole motor in its premium steam locos. Yes, the 3-pole needs to fit in small spaces, but N scale locos have had smaller 5-pole, skew-wound motors for decades, and they manage to be smoother and torque-ier than the 3-pole. Get with the times, B-mann! PS: That would be a good experiment: Test a B-mann loco with a 3-pole motor, replace it with an N scale motor like I mentioned above, and see if performance improves.
Think I'll stick to g gauge as its cheaper nowadays thanks 😊 👍 (although they are secondhand models but still perform better than most bachmann models 😉)
I think it's great that unlike the modelling magazines you are actually criticising the manufacturers for their ludicrously high prices.
Ridiculous pricing. Paid £140 for the NRM version back in late 2011 so whats the excuse?
haha thank you! Unlike the mags, I don't rely on the manufacturers for advertising money or free models... so you get the truth from me ;)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I've seen someone on youtube defending the price of the EFE LSWR Adams 02 saying it was justified because inflation, transport prices going up, pandemic, blablabla, and anyone saying it is awfully expensive has zero education in economics... He just forget to say that the model is a lemon, inpossible to service, with a pointlessly complicated driving train, and abysmal performance in real life that makes it too expensive for a forthcoming shelf queen at short notice... Thanks for your hands-on and screwdriver in hand tests, we know what we are (or are not) buying with you !
Model Rail magazine do their reviews really well. They do give pros and cons and some are to the same conclusion sam points out in this videos
@@bentullett6068 I don't recall them criticising the extortionate prices though.
Bachmann are taking the mickey in terms of pricing with their locos that still use the 3-pole motors, especially when I can purchase a DCC ready loco with a 5-pole dual-flywheel motor fitted for a much more reasonable price from either Kato or Atlas.
Is it hard to fit different motors to locos? I.e. could you fit a more powerful motor to a loco that wasn't designed for one?
Yep - taking the mickey is right - even if this had all the top modern features... it'd still be borderline extortionate! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@MRacer001 Probably, it depends on the clearance that a loco's chassis has for a better motor and if the wiring can handle said more powerful motor.
I’m so glad I can only afford the occasional second hand loco from my local magical railway shop. Around the 100 quid mark is my limit for a new loco. These prices are simply beyond my pocket. Good review Sam. 🙏
I don't blame you Nigel - that's the biggest problem with prices like this... they're stopping us from enjoying our hobby!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Same thing here in the US
Sure are silly prices. I hardly ever buy new loco's anymore unless they're on cheap offer...assuming they're not sold out on pre-order, another bug bearer of mine, no point buying catalogues anymore! No time to save up, have the money or too late.
About £140 is my upper limit and usually I look for older 2nd hand ones. Can detail them myself if needed.
It has ruined the hobby in a lot of ways, too many loco's likely won't be able to get now.
@@sparkshot I have a question about a video you made 5 years ago it's you scc loco kit video and I was wondering in there a another website that's similar to alan Gibson I can get parts from?
People are being priced out of the hobby. The Hornby railroad range has a lot to offer.
sam thank you so much i havent watched your videos in ages and just came back but i feel right at home your videos helped me through a tough time thank you so much ❤️
Fair review Sam. A few things I'd like to point out since I've been on and off visiting China for years reviewing business practices. Tooling there is not the cost. Development departments usually go by annual total sum / budget. The main issue there are Wages increasing by 6 - 9% annually. The Yuan is being revaluated frequently but China exports overall have become less ecomical due to ever fast increasing wages (apart from insanely increased rental pricing of shipping containers).
This loco does look stunning but is overpriced nonetheless I agree, specially the motor really is from a stone age... How do Bachmann even dare such today... Quality motors (even 3-pole) are to be like high-precision quality watches (they already were in premium brands Fleischmann / Märklin in the 1970s)... Then one can ask (dare I say) the German styled price.
Thanks a lot for sharing - I just think if Oxford can produce a new tooled high quality tender loco for under £100, there's no excuse for Bachmann to be releasing 10 year-old poor quality locos like this for £180... just makes no sense to me!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Indeed Linda. In Guangdong, minimum wage for factory workers has been about 9% increase per year. And remember the other costs such as mandated security guards, cleaners etc. As a brit manufacturing engineer in China I was made redundant, simply cos of labour costs. Tooling is not as cheap as it was, but its still a fraction of what it was in the west. But thing is, the tooling and plant is here in China, and cant be exported. I hate to think what the cost would be if it was made in the west tho 😳😂. But yup, price difference cant be that far apart now, esp at 17k bucks for a 40 foot container 🥵.
As an interesting add. Mould tools and press tools imported into china have to be less than 5 years old. No problem tho, just put a new ID plate on it with a date within 5 years. But once the tools are in China.. they aint getting back out 😂😂
Well... That might be a point to consider : why not manufacture back in the UK if China is becoming expensive ? What you loose on the wages, you can get it back on transportation costs, a post that WILL SHARPLY INCREASE in the forthcoming years.
Roco manufactures its models in Romania, there is a reason why...
@@OlivierGabin Tools are still cheap in China. China basically trained up millions of toolmakers while the UK made them redundant and gave them jobs in tesco. A prototype press tool, good for 50k parts costs about 9k GB in China.. 60k in UK. To replace punches etc for 120k parts is maybe 2k in China, 10k in UK. To buy wire eroders or sparkers in China is about 1/4 of the cost in UK. Thats fine for ultra high volume in uk at 700 spm on a press.. high value product.. But model trains are low volume batch stuff. Lots of toolmaker input. Toolmakers I last worked with in UK were 50k gb a head.. in China about 9k gb a year. It comes down to guv policy unfortunately. UK gave up on manufacturing.. China embraced it. And whats worse, no matter what side you voted for, the end result would have been the same. 🤬. 👍. In my experience in China, as a brit design engineer, the brit guys on 100k gb a year in britland do all they can to keep their wage. Not that I am bitter of course 😂😂. Profit margins go up.. supplier costs are driven down. Gone are the days of 10 to 20% profit.. its now 100% profit for the ppl who do least work. The actual difference in cost between a 3 pole and 5 pole moter might be 1 buck.. maybe a weeks work for a toolmaker to mod the tool, costs about 500 quid.. but for the UK guy to send a few emails and maybe do some CAD.. thats gonna cost 3k GB. 👍. Me bitter not 😂😂😂
Its pricing many out of the hobby, great review Sam. Just a shame Bachmann will never respond,.
Thanks a lot David - they certainly never have responded!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I can only conclude that Bachmann mistakenly thought they were producing a suicide note when they compiled their price list.
haha maybe Roger... sounds right to me! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Strange sort of ‘suicide notes’ when locos like this are flying off the shelf despite the high RRP.
What you need to remember is that an awful lot of buyers are either out to recreate a specific area of the country at a specific point in time - they are not into an ‘anything goes 8*4 train set oval or track on the carpet that Sam uses
A dukedog or a P2 is pretty useless if modelling a 1930s era railway in Derbyshire and as such the choice is between a dimensional wrong and pretty basic looking Hornby one or the expensive Bachman one that looks the part even if it’s mechanically not as good.
Oof the SHAAAAAAAADE, slaying a "premium" bachmann mechanism with a hornby railroad mechanism. Great review Sam, I definitely believe at a MUCH lower price this loco is a fabulous model.
There's a term for this kind of item as revised by Sam's Trains - it's a "glass case loco" !
Great video Sam and as usual with Bachman a beautiful looking engine with to high a price tag. Also sometimes with Bachman their mechanisms are not worth the high prices. This is such a let down . This is why your reviews are so important to us in this hobby we are more informed when looking to increase our trains. Keep up the good work from Me and my grandson Thomas .
Thanks a lot Louis - yep this is definitely one of those cases! Really appreciate the kind words, thank you both for watching!
Sam :)
Oooh I’m excited! I’m quite late too, hehe sorry Sam I had school. Anyway, I’m incredibly hyped for this review! (These reviews allow me to imagine what it’s like to own a model railway hehehehe)
You posted the original review of this loco at the time of the 0-4-0 record run, and during the Twitch stream I asked you to put it and the Hattons P Class inside the circuit of track, amazingly you did just that. Ahh good old memories. 😌
Ooh interesting - I'd forgotten about that! :O
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Immediately after watching this review (which is, like all of your reviews, highly instructive and required viewing for me) I watched your 2019 (?) review of the Bachmann WD Austerity 2-8-0 in LMR livery. Fascinating to compare the two reviews side by side and I like your consistency in scoring.
Today, 27/9/21, I’ve bought the WD Austerity which I needed for my Teesside-themed layout. (I can forgive the livery as my Dad trained on the LMR as an Army Cadet at school). It’s now discontinued from Bachmann’s range but cost me £139 from my favourite local model railway shop. Similar new in revised LNER livery has an RRP of £169.95, as it was when you reviewed yours.
I also bought the Oxford Rail J27 in late BR livery. It looks to be as sweet as you said it was.
Shocking! People need to start asking themselves 'Do I really need this?' when it comes to buying model railway products. Hornby is no better. Ridiculous prices. Good honest review Sam. Many thanks :-)
Even with a high 'Mickey' price for this poor quality loco - but with a 'pretty face' one must admit - the loco sells like cream cakes. At a point that some retailers already sold out ! Bachmann is laughing. So who cares ?? Business as usual for Bachmann. I totally agree with you Sam - I will not pay this price for a mediocre product but most model railroad hobbyist's don't seem to consider - as the reality shows. It's a lost battle but thank you anyway for being 'objective' with your fair review. Happy to know that there are far better alternatives today. For me Bachmann lost the battle a long time ago and I need very strong arguments to ever buy one in the future. I do not like these mafia practices ! Cheers.
Hi Sam, great video. Bachmanns prices are so ridiculous. I can tax and mot my car for a year for less than the price of this loco. Due to the over the top prices of model railway models, I have decided not to buy any more locomotives or stock. My end to end branchline layout has 10 locomotives, around 35 wagons and 8 coaches and I think I have enough. To make another purchase now, the model would have to be something really special. Great informative video. Cheers Chris.
Great video like usual Sam! Despite its flaws I do really like this loco, and I'm looking into getting a DCC fitted one from Clark Railworks! Also, I believe I saw what looked like smoke around the top of the tender when you were testing the crawl of the loco after it was run in. It was probably nothing but you can never be too careful with these models. Keep up the great work! You're a real inspiration to many!
Great review Sam personally I feel you are spot on with your comments as we all know it’s not just Bachmann over pricing there models Hornby is the biggest Micky taker do these manufacturers think we all Have a money tree growing in the garden the best way to go seems to be second hand and I don’t mean these rip off merchants on eBay all the best and keep up your reviews.
Absolutely gorgeous locomotive, fully detailed and very pretty to look at!!
Glad you have mentioned the price. On a certain forum, discussing the price of latest releases is stopped immediately.
Good review Sam. Looks lovely but appears to be all show and no substance or at least badly lacking for that price tag.
To put the price in context look at what models you could buy for £180-215.
- I've seen Hornby's railroad model going for £60-85 (New) at model shops. Hattons also had the new Hornby D16s going for £58 recently. So you could get at least two, perhaps three Hornby models for the same price or less with better mechanisms (but without the die cast running plate or that livery).
- For the same price you could get a newly tooled Hornby Pacific such as the Princess class or A3s with flickering fireboxes. Or the new Clan class or A2 4-6-4s.
I'd say that puts the Bachmann model into context. It should be no more than half the price they're charging.
Thanks mate - yeah very much so - great on the outside, shoddy under the hood... often the way with Bachmann models!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Just in perspective : GBP 215 is 251 €. In HO, you have a Piko BR 82 0-10-0 tank engine for this price. Or a Roco BR 37 2-6-0 tender engine, with a 5 poles motor and headlights... So, zero excuse for Bachmann, I have also seen a Roco BR 023 2-6-2 tender engine for 225 € (GBP 193) with a five pole motor AND a flywheel. So, Bachmann, what's your excuse ? Camelback deliveries from China via the Silk road becoming too expensive with the need to bypass Afghanistan due to the current situation in this country ?
Excellent review of the Midland Compound Sam 👍👍
I do like 4-4-0 models, but this model isn’t really what I really like to get as I’m more into tank engine person. And I personally have a Midland tank engine from Bachmann instead as it work better with the Hatton’s four and/or five wheel coaches.
I feel sorry for anyone can’t get this model due to the price and it is a shame as it does have a lovely livery.
Ta very much Joe - ooh yes the Bachmann Midland tanks are very nice indeed! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I wish Bachmann would have a policy of selling bodies only as well. It might not be much cheaper, as wheels are expensive, but at least one could then get it in EM or P4.
Aha! Sam you have the same disease I have, 4-4-0s. Another very professional review, highly comprehensive and engaging. This hobby is now getting extortionately expensive. I have now given up all hope of owning another layout.
Instead I will be donating whatever free cash I have to helping restore full size locomotives, my first as a life time member of the Mid Hants and long time member of the Somerset & Dorset was to help in the restoration of Cheltenham.
haha yeah... just can't fight them off unfortunately! That sounds lovely actually - maybe you could get in on the volunteer scene and play with real trains a while? ;)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Honesty is more than just important in these reviews, it’s downright ESSENTIAL!!!!
I have had this model as Midland 1000 for over 6 years. It was included as a ‘Thames Clyde Express starter set. It is brilliant and is in complete contrast with what I have heard here. One of my best performers and favourites falling short in your review - what a pity. It is in my opinion, excellent.
Thanks Michael - glad to hear yours was excellent! Objectively this doesn't meet the mechanical standards of a modern £200 locomotive, but sure, decent runners in the right situation!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam, you've been threatening to send locomotives back to the retailers before; I've yet to see if you have in the review yet (I'm up to the Mechanism review), but even before you've run it in, I feel you should send this one back. It's such a waste of your money, there are far better and "multiple" locomotives you can get for that price. Not from Bachmann though, they don't deserve your money.
With prices like these, I will have to return some models if they aren't perfect - it's getting silly isn't it?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It really is
One good thing has come of this though. This video inspired me to buy a used Hornby Railroad LMS Compound on eBay; the Class 1000 you reviewed years ago.
I made an offer of £62 for it, and they accepted; considering you paid £55 for yours, I'd say that's a fair price for a currently discontinued locomotive.
I bought one . This is my first Bachmann loco for ages mainly because I object to paying their prices . However the livery on this one was seductive so I relented . The middle tender wheels on mine were loose coming out the box but they seem to have clicked back in place . But I was nervous running it . It is jittery and certainly has a tight spot . It is better above 50% speed and I think it will settle down once run in . It’s not as smooth out of the box as my Hornby A2/2 or Heljan 86 both of which are silky smooth . This I think is second division in running terms . Bachmann have never produced an LMS red compound ( it was released as a limited edition of Midland 1000 before) so there is pent up demand for this , which is why they can get away with charging £215 ! I think it’s Kader looking for a higher margin from their British operation . Bachmann Purchase Tax! Completely agree with your review!
Thanks Sam for yet another honest review as we can't rely on most the hobby magazines anymore.
It's a pleasure Steve - I do my best! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I got an n class by Bachman 5 years ago for £21 with the box and it’s still works
I know this is a late comment, but thought it worth mentioning that the NRM model I have (2nd hand) of Midland Compound no 1000 has better detail. The axles in the chassis are blacked out. Part of the pipework on the boiler is painted copper colour, while there's more extremely fine copper pipework on the smokebox on the other side. The pipework on the lubricators on the running board are also copper painted. The front buffer beam has M and R painted on there, which is lovely. You can only conclude Bachmann is fleecing the buying public for what it can get away with, as well as removing a noticeable amount of detail to save money..
Great honest review Sam.
Get your models in now train fans because the prices have already started going up.I have noticed a 10% rise in most retailers.
Yup - prices going crazy aren't they?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Prices on everything is going up. Issue is the shipping costs have risen which effects raw materials and other components and transport costs in the UK have risen due to the fuel price rises. I don't think we have seen the last of these price rises yet.
@@bentullett6068 I fear you're right Ben . . .
Awesome video today Sam beautiful modle such a shame about some of the quality on the locomotive and I think I will get the hornby one
Another great review. Thanks. Did I notice a slight error in the yellow lining around the left rear buffer on the tender? It looks extra wide for part of the line . Then the extra width stops abruptly. Or is that a function of the camera angle?
Sam, do you know anything about Relcos? I’ve had two on my layout for over 40 years and I find them fantastic.
Lovely video Mr Warwell!
I have the old Hornby one from the 1980s, I love it!
Thank you!! Ahh yes me too - lovely engines too those! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I like the look of the LMS Midland Compound! It’s unfortunate to see yet another expensive price tag and what you get is pretty poor. What’s up with Bachmann using old castings, terrible mechanisms, and putting bad quality locos at high prices?
Me too my friend, yeah I agree with that :(
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Can you review the class 800 Azuma and a piko ice 3
What a gorgeous locomotive!! I absolutely adore the colour of this one!!
Hi. I’ve slowly but surely getting through your videos. Do like them. May I suggest a few items to review.
Hornby, Bachmann Heljan electric locos. Class 85, 86 an 87. May not be your cup of tea though. Also I remember seeing a train cam on one video you did. Any chance of doing a comparison of train video cameras one day? We do value your opinions. Cheers. Dave.
I Always loved the Bachman compound no.1119 she is my favourite compound.
It looks like Bachman have now entered the (to put it mildly)‘Let’s take the Micky’ club when it comes to price. Maybe the only way to get value for money from Bachmann is to buy a train set like the recent ‘Midlander’ train set which is available for £167.96 from some of the retailers and that includes a great livery Jubilee class, 2 Mk 1 coaches, an oval of track and controller with power supply. (You can always sell the track and controller)
Just as a suggestion, the train set could make an interesting review and subsequent competition give away!!
Love your channel by the way!
Brian.
Hi Sam,
It is quite lucky that the price was so high, if it was more in line with expectations (130-140 after retailer discounts) I would have probably picked one up and been forever annoyed by that boiler seam. Had full intentions of getting one when it was first announced.
The difference between the LMS 4P compound and Midland Compound was the driving were larger on the midland. I like any express engine with large driving wheels, very stately
Nice one Sam, thanks for your open and honest opinion
In 2011 the original NRM 31-930NRM was £140. Still a high price for the the time. Now this model being offered for over £230!
I managed to buy a NRM for £90 so I feel the value was good. I saw the original just after it had been returned to its original form in the 1950s (I think). I was actually disappointed because the chimney and dome weren't the same as the ones I had seen in real life. The colour was spectacular.
hi sam, i am new to this hobby , do you have a video explaining which coaches go with the correct locomotives mainly the diesel and electric, , many thanks keep up the brill videos
due to the LMS having a huge influence in northern Irish railways even running some of the lines there. A slight copy of the LMS compound was produced known as the the GNR(I) V class. It’s one of Ireland’s few operational preserved steam locos
ua-cam.com/video/hk6KVrfv4Xc/v-deo.html
Wow that's very cool - I didn't know about that one! :O
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Have you ever thought about when quoting an old price from a few years ago saying what it should be now with inflation to see how much more Bachmann is marking its models up by?
Yes I suppose that would be a good idea - thanks for that! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I guess I should of watched the whole vid before making that comment as you did do that
Brilliant loco, Sam. Glad number 1000 is still around. This needs to be a Thomas character. Same with a class 37, 60, 66, 67 and 70.
Was the red release a limited edition or something that could cause for the price increase? I would love for Sam to consider the livery maybe more desirable than others offered.
£215 is about $295, living in the US I'd give anything for steam locos to be that cheap...
I'm with James. Here in the US locomotives are ungodly expensive. Unlike the UK it seems like the manufacturer's don't even want to introduce new model here in the US. .When they do they have DCC installed and want an asking price of close to $1000 US. You gentlemen in the UK should be thankful for what you have.
@@scottbechstein5708 ikr, I always get a good laugh out of Sam being taken aback by prices that would pretty much be a dream over here
I find that us locos usually have a lot more details and are generally a hell of a lot bigger han most of the british ones so. Also us locos are usually chipped and sound from the factory nowadays so the price seems more justified.
A dream? I’ve bought way better locos than this from Trainworld with DCC sound... and they were still cheaper than this even after I paid the shipping and customs 😂
@@Jimmy_CV depends on the manufacturer really, even so, you have to REALLY want certain models to justify paying the prices of say, a BLI steam loco
Had a look at the ranking for the mechanism and I realized that not even 30 seconds into the video you can see a slight slow down from the loco on the 2nd radius s bend
I saw that too
Yep - very little torque in this mechanism!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
You should try a double header with this loco and the 1P witha rake of midland/LMS coaches
To think I just bought a Fowler 4P tank, a significantly older model with an updated mechanism and better torque / pulling power, along with three coaches for £98.99....
It's certainly not as pretty as this, but if that's all a loco's got going for it I'll gladly continue to admire its picture online as I run my locos with better mechanisms.
If you are talking about the Fowler 4P train pack - that hung around for ages on the shelves and has been the subject of some significant discounting to shift it!
As with everything else you buy, models that are popular will not be discounted as manufacturers seek to make maximum profit while those which sell poorly can be expected to be picked up for lower prices a few months (or years) later on.
In fact its quite possible that Hornby may have made a loss on that product - a loss which could of course be balanced out by extra profit made on a popular loco / train pack that sold out while still at RRP.
@@philkeller4170 If it's the same, I have bought one at a severely discounted price, with three coaches and an engine. For the price I paid (less than GBP 200 if I can remember it correctly), it was a good buy.
I love a good red locomotive and this one is a beauty! I’m sorry though that the mechanics aren’t up to snuff. I enjoyed the review (I love 4-4-0’s too)! Stay safe Sam!
Thanks Cab - it sure is a beauty! Glad you liked the review anyway,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I bought one of these a short while ago and it arived yesterday. The Gear axles were painted black on mine. Maybe you got a one-off, without the axles covered? I bought the exact same one you did for this video, so maybe its just an inconsistancy in the construction?
The way things have been going I'm almost shocked that many reviewers haven't blacklisted Bachmann products at this point. xD
I still cannot for the life of me figure out who Bachmann's market is at this point - and if Bachmann thinks that market is A) immortal and B) has infinitely deep pockets.
totaly agree, bachmann is pricing the young generation out of the market, bachmann take the mick.thank goodness i have a few Triang locos lying around,
Bachmann have never really been into the young generation market like Hornby have - its simply not profitable or large enough. The real money is to be made selling to older adults / collectors who have the cash to splash.
@@philkeller4170 But the problem is that's a diminishing market and they don't have infinite money.
I’m now completely priced out of the market for new models ready to run.
I think it's getting that way for everyone now - sucks :(
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The thing is, I can afford those prices but I don't want to. I agree with Sam it is too expensive. There is also the point that you can get better models for either the same price or cheaper. I paid £261 for the Hornby Dublo models and I did baulk at the price, but I must admit they are probably worth the money.
@@cbrooks122000 I can afford the price for more expensive engines, and I did so by buying a Roco 2-10-0 with DCC and sound this summer for 350 €, but I want a bang for the Euro spend in return. With zero finish mishaps, a 5 poles motor with a flywheel, a zero-tool DCC decoder installation, a flickering firebox and a Dapol-like tender to engine connexion, I would have accepted the luxury pricetag of this engine. As is, it's a pure an unadulterated NO. Even Hornby does better for less in their railway range with comparable engines...
I honestly think you are right on your comments. Bachmann should at minimum have included a 5 pole motor and flywheel.
This is like a Hornby Railroad being charged at Silver Seal pricing......... It's a basic Bachmann that's been given the same price as their premium range.
What a great review Sam. Cheers
What a disgustingly ridiculous price. No way will i get one now. I have the Hornby railroad Lms compound from 1980 and it looks and runs beautifully still. Tomorrow I'm going to use the money i saved for 1 of these on a peckett b2 and a deposit on a new dapol class 68 drs. 👍😎
I used the Hargreaves Lansdown calculator that goes up to 2021. Even that only calculates the current price at £173.00.
Mind you, freight costs have gone through the roof. From Bloomberg, 'Freight rate increases have been significant - 40-foot containers that cost $2,000 to ship a year ago can cost as much as $20,000 now, depending on circumstances.'
My Rapido FP9A is due to arrive soon. Well, it's already arrived in Canada, just waiting for them to send some over here. . Hope the extra shipping costs aren't reflected in the price. The £249.00 estimated cost last December gave me a sweaty brow. :-)
Mmmm, lined LMS Crimson with drop shadow letters and numbers. So scrumptious you could almost eat it. Mind you, I wouldn't buy one in a fit but very lovely to look at. Very just review. 👍😊
Not a bad looking locomotive there Sam it looks really nice in that crimson livery, definitely will be a bachmann one when I get round to getting one
Thanks a lot David! Price aside, Bachmann do make the best compound overall - happy to concede that ;)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A great review Sam , my experience with Bachman are quite mixed. I have five,a BR 5 Mt, a BR 4 4-6-0 and more. Although I bought them new I got excellent prices from Barry at Widnes Model Centre. I personally feel that Bachman will get a wake up call when people stop buying from them.
I'd be willing to bet the high price has to do with Bachmann's output. If you think about it, they were due to release 7 newly tooled locomotives this year (Class 20, Class 24, Class 25, LNER V2, LNWR improved precident, CR 812, and the GWR 94xx). If Bachmann want to keep this pace, they would need higher profit margins to pay for the new toolings, hence why all of their products are very expensive. Oxford Rail,on the other hand, probably don't make nearly the margins that the other manufacturers do, so they can only release a new locomotive once every year or year and a half.
Interesting to consider... I'm in for their V2 and retooled class 20, and I have bought the three versions of their GWR 94xx (yes, I'm nuts).
By the way, cutthroat prices on poor models are not a good policy overall... It's not Heljan, which is far worse overall on every point, but if the price does not match the quality, that would be detrimental to their overall sales.
I've got the NRM edition, no.1000. looks great but I'm not sold on the 3 pole motor.
Hi Sam. I think you are right to criticise the price, especially when you say that the Hornby R3276 is better mechanically for considerably less money; £75 v £214 is a joke. Albeit the detailing is far, far superior. the Hornby is just plain black. I have a Hogwarts Express which manages 1st radius track and a 3% incline with the aid of Powerbase magnets and plates under the track, so I was wondering if that the 4-4-0 would also be okay on 1st radius and the incline, with magnets? Do you have an opinion on that please. Also do you know of a non-black, with detail lines, 4-4-0 configuration at the hornby type price ?? I'm a new lockdown railway modeler and need to watch the pennies !!! Keep up the most in-depth and brilliant reviews. Cheers.
there was a lot of comments about prices in the US being more than the UK but in my experience US Locos have sound and DCC fitted as standard in the UK you have to pay more for that
It depends... You have prefitted DCC and DCC with -noise- sound locos in UK offer.
I use to buy analog only because I want to choose my own decoders.
You know, this looks extremely similar to James the Red Engine in Thomas and Friends only with the outside cylinder, driving wheel number, and the pilot wheel truck having four instead of two wheels. Other than those differences, you can definitely see James
Not sure if it ever got seen but what lubricant do you use for serving and where do you put it
Good video. Nice loco but definitely not worth the asking price. Good idea to use the BoE inflation calculator to illustrate how much prices have increased in a relatively short time. Maybe you could include this on a regular basis when reviewing new versions of older locos? Helps to put things into perspective when you realise the value for money we were getting 3/4 years ago relative to now.
I like the LMS compound loco
it has nice detalis and the livery is stunning.
This loco is on my list over locos i am considering to buy.
👍👍👍🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
Another great review Sam of an extortionately priced loco from Bachmann. I know you said you bought from Derails - but the screenshot was from TMC.
Derails sold out I believe
Thanks a lot mate! Yes that's right - Derails have removed this from their site now!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
And so have several other retailers - which from a Bachmann perspective will tell them that the price is right for the simple reason that there are none hanging round on the shelves requiring deep discounting to shift.
In a capitalist setup money talks! Bachmann primarily exist to make profits for the parent Kadder group (who have demanded increased revenues by the way) so complaints about prices will be ignored unless a direct competitor arrives on the scheme or the model is proving hard to sell.
I recently read about toy manufacturing prices and sad to say, material costs, labour costs and postage/export price has increased quite significantly. This has caused prices to increase, so £215 I think is too steep but particularly bachmann have been struggling at the moment I heard, so they are having to cut back. Which is sad because they can't do the best they want because they can't afford to.
Great review and a lot of positives however do any of the regular criticisms of price vs product bother Bachmann? Agree with others that I have a limit on what I am able and prepared to pay however it seems that many are prepared to and do pay these sort of prices and in enough numbers so you can only assume Bachmann feel they can get away with their prices!?
Not a bad model, I'd pay 120 to 150 quid for a 10 plus year old tooled version like this.
Over 200? not a chance!
I'll make do with my old Hornby one, their RRP is under 95 quid and I paid around 50 for mine.
I haven't bought a new Bachmann loco now for almost 2 years because of the crazy pricing for old tooling.
It's TRUE , another GREAT Locomotive, BUT Who has room for them all, SAM. That is WHO 😎
Hey Sam. A beautiful loco for sure. My black CN and CP locos can't even compare in that department. Cheers, Dan.
Is this the same tooling as the Thames Clyde Express train set by Bachmann? That is the Midland Compound.....
214 uk pounds at current exchange rates equals 402 Australian dollars that is a ripoff, the highest price I would currently pay would be about 300 AUD which is about 159 uk pounds! I gave buying Bachman locos 10 years ago as the quality was inconstant, kept buying their goods wagons for a bit longer, now only by Hornby! Always check your reviews on new issues. Cheers from Aus.
You can get new chipped/sound locos in the usa for about the same price. Bachmann is off their rocker.
Weird question but are you going to the great electric show at Milton
Could you do a video where you compare the Bachman and hornby versions of the same engine. I’d be interested to see how they compare
Yes but such a view needs to remember that being accurate to the prototype is just as important.
The Hornby model is dimensional inaccurate - a big minus of you are in the business of building a model railway rather than playing with a train set.
I have noticed that Sam’s videos do tend to have quite a few inaccuracies when it comes to the background of the real locomotives themselves - yet if directly comparing two products suposadly of the same loco, accuracy to the real thing is just as important as the finish or mechanical detail.
Your right about the price sam, that loco is lovely,but far to expensive, I live in Dublin and my choice is limited as there is only 3 model shops in Ireland owned by the same person and the only choice I have is Bachmann or hornby, I can't order anything from the uk anymore as there is a vat and customs charge which makes it uneconomical for me ☹ great review 👍
Brexit. (British Rail Exit)
Try Hattons. They don't have Bachmann, except second hand, but you don't pay extra duties when you shop from them, they are registered in the Republic of Ireland for the VAT. When they charge you, they includes the VAT, they do the same for me in France.
@@OlivierGabin I have phoned them and they couldn't guarantee me that I wouldn't get a bill at my home, also contacted the Irish postal service and they told me same, thanks anyway 👍
Hey Sam! I got a goodie for you, train world has a bachmann alco 2-6-0 DCC ready (some American train that i bought this week) for 70 USD, I thought it would be cool for you to check out!
Reminds me of the locomotives that run at Bush gardens Williams burg
Can you use your 3d printer, if you even still use it on the channel to make another speedy pete chain driven locomotive, just thought it would be a fun idea and a throw back to an older video
Nice loco. I do agree that its beautiful to look at but that mechanism isn't that great, but as you said it depends on your layout. Problem is some of these high end price locomotives don't always get run on layouts and are just put in cabinets to be displayed and the performance issues won't matter.
I wish there was someone as good as you reviewing Trix and Brawa locos!
haha thank you so much! I'll never say never! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That's really beautiful locomotive it's really nice. I like the wheel Arrangement it's a nice small locomotive very compact. Mixed traffic type love the paint Scheme on the locomotive as well
Classed by the Midland, LMS and British Railways as 4P. As per the box at 4:50. So passenger only. Largely due to the near seven foot diameter wheels built for speed and not pulling power at low speeds.
Very rare to see photos other than on passenger trains.
@@johnd8892 it's still a nice engine. I'm a moderator by Trade ifixandrepair Engines it look more horrible than newer Bachmann locomotives do. I've seen the worst of the worst in model railroading. Every locomotive is unique in its own way I've got older engines that are far worse.
@@johnd8892 I'll tell you right now. I like British locomotives. I bought some like their steam engines their experimental types all different kinds season their HO Scale Models look pretty good even the oo gauge locomotives look really good Bachmann has produced some newer locomotives but they've look nice in the past period problem is it's the mechanism. I've dealt with Bachmann mechanisms for years. I'm from the United States. Have you worked on a single locomotive in your lifetime. I've worked on model locomotives all the time. You can complain all you want. It still looks like a nice-looking engine. I would have that in my collection
@@GarrettTaylorLeedy my apology that you do not like the facts of what the railways used for mixed traffic. Are you Ok?
@@johnd8892 we had the same exact steam locomotives in the United States similar to that wheel arrangement period used for Freight and passenger service mixed traffic locomotives for like the consolidation class. In the United States that welcome motive was built for passenger service and Freight there were some so many interesting designs of these engines are out there
I am still waiting for when Mr.Sam gets a BR class 28, A BR class D16/2, and when he starts an OO9 scale narrow gauge model railway to work along side the railway he has now. The only problem with the BR class 28 and the BR class D16/2 is that Most of them are made by Heljan, I think.
Thanks Sam for a great review. You are absolutely right about the price, that is far too expensive. It will be interesting to see how many they sell. Hornby locos look good value compared to this, even though they charge high prices for old tooled models.
Model loco prices are only going one way im afraid. Shipping costs have gone up enormously, much more then the general rate of inflation, alongside the global container shortage. However, I think in general UK models are generally still quite cheap, compared to say German models, which are usually over £300. Having said that, 5 pole motors, flywheels and glowing forebox should be completely standard now.
It would be really nice if you review the Hornby H Class again. See it in a new light
It is indeed attractive, but do note my opinion is not at all impartial; that LMS maroon has been a favorite since learning of it here across the pond in the 1970s!
I don't understand why Bachmann insists on using the same old 3-pole motor in its premium steam locos. Yes, the 3-pole needs to fit in small spaces, but N scale locos have had smaller 5-pole, skew-wound motors for decades, and they manage to be smoother and torque-ier than the 3-pole. Get with the times, B-mann!
PS: That would be a good experiment: Test a B-mann loco with a 3-pole motor, replace it with an N scale motor like I mentioned above, and see if performance improves.
Your right, this is a beautiful locomotive
Think I'll stick to g gauge as its cheaper nowadays thanks 😊 👍 (although they are secondhand models but still perform better than most bachmann models 😉)