Fender Tonemaster vs. 65' Deluxe Reverb - Sounds ONLY
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2019
- Here is only the SHOOTOUT section of my big Tonemaster video...
Fender's concept for the Tonemaster amps is brilliant... and I think the "placebo" effect totally works. The amps are sexy and deliver a lot of great tones, but can it really compete with its tube counterpart?
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The video we’ve all been waiting for, great job with the side by side, very well done
I have done live A/B testing of these two amps with different guitars and various settings. They don't sound exactly the same, but what surprised me was how much I liked the Tone Master. I have been a tube snob for nearly 50 years, but I think that in a blind test, there's a good chance I'd pick the Tone Master over the "real" amp.
Ive A/B'd them as well, but only for "clean" sound. In person they sound like two completely different amps.
I prefer the dr, but I liked the tonemaster. The tonemaster is warmer, but also less detailed and less chimey. But still a good sound.
One source of the difference is probably the speaker. The tonemasters have neodynium speakers, which honestly will never sound as pretty as ceramic ones. Neo speakers are light, but have inferior sound. They are always too warm and dont have enough pretty high end chime. Yeah you save weight, but you sacrifice so much in sound, i dont see how its worth it.
Play the tonemaster through the standard dr speaker (c12k) and i bet it sounds much closer to the dr.
@@tonebone69I bought my Deluxe Reverb Tonemaster because it sounds “like” the tube version and it’s easy to carry.
Nobody who hears us at gigs gives a good hoot and wouldn’t know the difference anyway.
I had the tube version for years and there is nothing like one, but it’s too dang heavy to lug around at my age.
The visual of the waveforms is super helpful - great stuff HP!
This is the first useful comparison demo. Awesome job Henning.
Great video. I also watched the other one you did on the Tonemaster. I really appreciate that you do an honest review even when Fender sponsors the video.
Finally! What I've been waiting for has been a side by side comparison between the Tone Master amps and their Tube counterparts! Now I know that I need a pair of Tone Master Twins to take the place of my old tube Twins on the road. I don't believe I will sacrifice anything as far as my guitar tones go, but I'll be gaining a few other advantages instead. No more open mics with bleed from the drummer, and no more feedback issues.
Thank you for posting this!!! This has been very helpful
Sincerely Thank you for this one. Love the extra girth the tubes give. And can cross the TM off my list.
Best comparison video hands down. I’m sold. The tone master sounds great!
Excellent comparison. Thank you for this material.
Well done Henning, you have done it again an excellent side by side demo as only you can, I use the original Fender Deluxe and a Roland Blue Cube Artist so I'm used to both types of amp
I do prefer my Fender Deluxe it seems to be a lot smoother and warmer, an all-rounder thanks you for the demo
Best comparison I've ever heard!!
I did A/B session with on TMTR and one Deluxe Reverb. The price and the weight wasn't an issue for me. After one hour I decided to buy the TMTR ... I love the sound and the fact that you can play with many different level. In the tone Master you don't have to push the sound level to have nice sound.
This is the future of amps . Gonna see all the great amps do this and im here for it !!!
The Tonemaster is an interesting concept. It'll be interesting to see if and how it evolves. Something to keep an eye on. Good comparison video. Animals at the end!
Dude you have such an awesome setup! very inspiring,
They both honestly sound great. The tone master does a great job recreating the reverb and trem of the original. Minimal differences will happen between any amps, especially with different speakers, speaker age, tube age, etc.
The blonde deluxe reverb has a different speaker in it... I would love to see this same comparison with that model! (Thanks for such an awesome comparison also!)
Tonemaster is definitely brighter, spankier, while the tube amp is warmer, richer. Both sound good, just depends on what tone you like better.
my thoughts exactly. what I want to know is if you can you feel a difference.
For what i hear, the high frequencies in the tube version are much smoother and the low ones are much thighter. May be the tubes, the different speaker or whatever but I find the tube one more pleasing to listen to.
This should be the standard for any X v Y kind of demo, be it amps, pedals, guitars.. No talk, great visuals, great playing... Perfect.
I’m so curious about the tonemaster amps! I love the idea and concept and I absolutely want to get one. I kinda wish they wouldn’t have named the models the same as the tube versions only because it instantly draws that comparison and kinda perpetuates the tube vs digital debate. If it sounds good, it is good!
Nice comparison!! Really hard to recognize which one is which on my poor earphones but there were some points I could recognize by even my cheap earphones. I dig the tube amp anyway.
The crunch is where the tube just takes off. But both sound amazing
When I played the tone master deluxe in a store, and the tube, it was hard to tell except the feel was a little different and you can’t leave the knobs in the same position. Heck you can’t get the same from 2 tube versions with the “exact settings “. They vary too. I loved it.
ahhh......finally some feedback on feel. is the feel close or good enough? I'm leery of SS amps due to feel. if it doesnt feel good, then theres no point IMO
* To those insisting the difference just comes down to the speaker- The speaker of the tone master has been specially crafted for this amp in order to get it to sound AS CLOSE to a tube deluxe reverb as possible. If they both used the same speaker then they would sound even further apart
💯
Bazinga
Have you tried this or do you just assume this?
There's a good reason to insist that the difference comes down to the speaker because one can bypass the physical speaker of the TMDR and line it out using the IR. Comparing THAT signal to a real mic'd tube amp, I would think that the differences would be even LESS.
If modifying a speaker that was all that was needed to make a solid state amp into a tube amp it wasn’t tried before…as to digital modeling is always been close but no cigar…but this claim is Pixie Dust…There is another factor,variance between tubes within a brands both preamp and power tubes as well with the remaining manufacturer brands. You can set up a demo to fool some of the people some of the time….but the variables with guitars, pickups…and then there’s pickups, as well as players. Nice try, but I ain’t buying it…Same to thing with church organs and closer to guitars, harpsichords and pianos and digital modeling.
The current, Classic, well known bands and has been artists will use this amp in concert for convenience, and more than likely record with these and for the old farts spare their backs, but this demo is marketing. Nobody creates something new with recorded samples.
In short hogwash…been to live concerts and it’s different venue to venue. That’s part of the reason to attend a performance, to here something familiar in a new way not a note for note reproduction of a studio recording. The tone is in the fingers and technique of the artist…A good tube amp with maintenance and check ups re capping etc. can last a long time, unless it’s a Fender tube amp from the Red Knob era onwards (exception amps built in the manner of Tweed, Blackface, and early Silverface eras. UA-cam is replete with Hot Rod Deluxe, Etc. Videos on repairing problems with E-Caps, PCB, and the like as Fender wanted to save a few dollars ($5.00-10.00) or was it planned obsolescence, or to keep repairmen employed? Why would a Tonemaster be any different since it seems accountants run Fender since the 1990s?
Nice comparison.....with a Warehouse ET 65 on each combo would be an epic demo.
Thanks a lot.
Great demo thanks for doing that! Looks like I might save a couple hundred and still get great sound without killing my back!
the tonemaster distortion is SO GOOD
Love the solid State
i'm gonna wait for tonemaster II, to see how close it gets. I like the attack of a tubeless amp, i play cleaner, but want to hear a more full body like the tube deluxe
already have the Tonemaster Twin but I'm definitely picking up a Deluxe too
Great demo, best one I've seen comparing these two amps. I'm really liking the Tone Master, (not that I don't love the classic tube version). I prefer the 68 Deluxe Reverb but because of the weight difference and not having to deal with possible tube issues, I'm seriously considering the 65 Tone Master. Your demo helps a lot, thanks so much for posting!
There may be a sound difference but the weight and the possibility of lower volume levels are very cool aspects of the TM. Ofc the tube sound is the ultimate sound, but it kills your ears and your back lol
Those new Fender amps are sure fun.Lightweight.
Played the Tonemaster today at a local shop. No - it's not as good as the tube version. However, if you want a great "throw and go" amp it's GREAT. Loved the power attenuation feature that yielded a bunch of useable tones, too. For the kind of smaller and social combo gigs I do, this is ideal and helluva lot easier to haul than my AC-15. Ultra light, great vibrato and priced right. Great demo. I'm sold.
What was the differences? Were you able to do a side by side? Big difference from an AC15
Have you tried the Vox MV50 AC?
... 03/06/2020: I mostly play clean with some reverb. At what volume number does the clean channel start to break up? If I am plugged into the clean channel, can I hit footswitch to activate reverb or tremolo? Also, is there a difference in volume and tone with the 1x12 vs 2x12 speakers?
The tube DR sounds a bit more gainy, especially when turned up, the tonemaster seems to have some extra headroom so it sounds a little cleaner, but less lively and organic. The reverb and trem sounded much better on the tube amp though. Both are great sounding amps nonetheless and in a mix would be pretty indistinguishable I think.
Many thanks. This video just prevented me from an huge mistake. Maybe a question of personal taste but effects are much deeper and tasteful with tube version. Like if they just worked on clean behavior that is quiet close in the two versions... Strange... I'll go to try a tone Master version with my miniboard before buying.
The Tonemaster seems to be a bit more controlled in its sound. I think it would be a bit easier to control and get tones from at various settings.
Great job. Thank you for the video. I like your cats ....
Could Fender improve the distortion of the Tone Master to match the valve's with a firmware update?
Love Tube
*thank you for this video! I should have known better that you we come right and exact on this product.*
As a weekend warrior local gigger this thing is the best piece of gear I own . I have run a 74 Deluxe Reverb before . I ordered the Tonemaster into my local music store without demo where I did a direct demo against a 68 re-issue Deluxe reverb when it arrived and was blown away . I think there may be some difference but minimal and you could demo two tube amps of the same model and hear differences too , there are a lot of variables . At the end of the day this amp sounds beautiful......comes with awesome reverb and vibrato , works well with pedals . The attenuator works well and has been super practical and makes matching volume with my band and room settings a breeze . My bandmates , fellow musicians and followers of my band have noticed and all love the tones I am getting out of this thing......25 pounds pick it up and run to your next show with ease and sound great . To me totally worth the price with the features it has . I am a tube snob.....for me this amp sounds great and is super practical .
Thanks for an actual constructive side by side review.
Band mixes destroy 99% of tone snob arguments. Most points are mute.
The Tonemaster sounds great. Very close to the tubes one.
To my old broken in ears the twin deluxe reverb wins by a mile. Love the tube sound.
Clean I can’t really tell them apart, but I’ll re-listen with good headphones. Distorted I liked the Tonemaster better on a couple clips, but the tube version was better on most of the distorted clips. I think my take away was that neither one is a great choice for heavy distorting styles of music. EL84/34 amps for that please!
I can barely perceive the difference. Nice comparison. Gonna have to get me one of the Tone Masters!
Geart job.
I understood '65DR is awesome.
They both sound pretty awesome. Were they both new or was the tube amp speaker already broken in?
both new
I agree , in the modeler the mids are in the “wrong place” ( too much towards low-mids) compared to the tube amp. I think that it can be firmware- fixed someway by fender if they listen closely to this video
I think that is why in all the demos I prefer the Tonemaster. Ii just, read an, interview about Mike McCready replacing all Fender DR touring amps with these and it got me intrigued. I think I'm ready to go buy one
great contribution! now I prefer tube version by far...
At clean settings, the Tone Master seems to be a bit more scooped and have a little more presence, whereas the 65 has a bit more low mids, and feels more "rounded." As I hear the overdriven sounds, those almost seem to flip; the TM has a more "mix-ready" sound, versus the 65 sounding more "raw" and natural. When I hide the screen, I can still hear a difference but neither one is better or worse. I'd happily take either!
I all ways love the “its not tube” comments from all you playing clean amps using none tube drive pedals. Thanks for the comparison. I love my hot rod deville, but after stuffing two Eminence Governors in it, it’s a bit on the heavy side and the volume is unusable past 1 1-1/2 on most stages. These are super enticing.
Close enough for me. 🤷♂️
Would I prefer the sound of the real deal? Well, yea. I used to use a FDRRI as my main amp. It sounded great but was deceptively heavy and a little high maintenance. The Tonemaster doesn't exceed the original but gets pretty close in some scenarios and honestly sounds light years better than any other digital modeling attempt at a mid 60s Fender amp. It'd be interesting to hear how a Hot Rod Deluxe sounds in the same shoot out.
The Tonemaster has less natural compression and doesn't have such a 'warm ' sound as the tube version . With a clean and crunch sound you can hear this at his best . It's strange because if you don't hear it then you can feel it when playing ; the Tonemaster has a colder sound and it peacks more when you hit the strings .
One more proof to my ears that tubes are just naturally better. But the TM was way better than I thought.
on the first section i just edge the tube version..but then i noticed that the tonemaster treble is on 7-8 and the tube ver on 5. Do a demo with all knobs at same settings??
Both sounds good ! But with distortion the real tube amp sounds better.
@Rikard Lundgren I agree, but they (tube amps) can sound just as good pushed with a overdrive pedal or Tube Screamer if that's the sound someone is going for. But I do agree with you. Same goes in the rock and metal field with tube amps, they just sound warmer and more responsive.
I do own the Tone Master Deluxe and I’ve found running at 22 watts with the volume between 2 to 4 for a clean , high headroom setting you can run overdrive pedals with all the harmonic richness of a overdriven tube sound beautifully. Hitting the amp with a Tube screamer pedal at this setting is pure heaven tone wise. Running the amp at 5 watts and below with a TS style pedal the tone is just ok, at 22 or even 12 watts it sounds every part a tube amp, the compression , harmonics and feel is there. Try one out in store with one of those green pedals and I guarantee you’ll have a smile from ear to ear.
@@LeviBulger I've gigged with DRRIs over the last 10 years(and a '69 DR in the early 70s), and now done a few gigs with the Tonemaster. They sound like every other DR I've used.
Funny, I though the opposite. The Tonemaster seemed like it had more presence. The tube sounded a little flatter to me.
@@stevep1941 do you still feel that way? also, does it feel the same when you play it as the tube version? that's just as, if not more, important to me than the tone.
The Tube version has a slightly different top end. Both sounding Nice an they Are very close. I Prefere the Tube one🤘 thanks🤘
does it drive the same way from overdrive and boost pedals though?
Consider this for a moment. If you had two amp to compare the first being an all tube DR sounding as it does and the TM if you were told it was an all tube amp and you believed it was, but sounded just as it does, we’ll I don’t think anyone would say this doesn’t sound like a tube amp. You’d just think it was normal variance between two like amps.
The old one has a slight edge. Maybe if the price comes down... a lot...!
I still have my Deluxe 112 and my Stage 160.
I have had bad back for years and the weight of the Tone Master will definitely suits me much better, my FX pedals should be able make up for the lesser sound quality. Thanks Fender!
Using analog instead of digital pedals helps the TM get closer to the tube version.
Distort: Tonemaster
Clean: Deluxe Rerverb.
Its all. Thanks for the comparission!
You can spot the tube one miles away lol
Got my twin a few weeks ago
I've used tube amps right back to the early 70s and have owned many, including 60s and 70s blackfaces and silverfaces (when we thought they were just old) and modern boutiques. Getting on in years, I needed to lighten my load, and I've been playing out with Quilters because I think they sound and feel really good. I bought the Deluxe Tonemaster, because I felt it would have the performance of a Quilter in a Fender package that was more eh, Fendery. When I first got it I was astounded. It was like a real Deluxe. But as time wore on, there was something not right. An annoying harsh emphasis in a certain part of the high mids, that came to really annoy me (I'm also a 35 year full time audio post engineer). Perhaps the Neo speaker needed longer to break in, but I wasn't taking the chance. Barely within the 45 day return period, I returned it. For playing out I'm back with the Quilter- a Tone Block 202 through an alnico cream in a Mojotone Lite cab - weighs 22 lbs and sounds and feels warm, sparkly and fabulous. For me, maybe not for you, the Tonemaster is a GREAT idea and I hope Fender keeps refining it, but it's not quite there yet.
I was surprised that I could hear a difference, but yes. On cleans the tubes win big: more organic, notes seem to breath, more life in them; the Tone Master has a bit more articulation that comes out on the attack but it's ever so slightly more sterile. However, the more distortion that was piled on, the better the Tone Master started sounding due to it's clarity, while the tubes, especially with massive distortion, sounded muddy and less focused. IMO, I prefer the Tubes. Lets swap speakers and try again!
I occurred to me why the Tonemaster amp may be brighter. The original amps were built with 2-35% taper pots in the tone controls whereas the reissue Deluxe doesn’t have these pots as far as I know.
The Tonemaster were probably built off the vintage amps as opposed to the reissues.
Of course I could be mistaken. 🤔
looks like the tube amp is set louder than the other one from the waveforms... but still both sound decent
At the start, I wasn't looking at the graphic and it turns out I like the tone master more lmao
I think truthfully we all listen with our eyes
I too, like the tone master, but knowing which is which
Me too...
I cant believe im saying this but that tone master sounds nice. But i still prefer the tubed deluxe reverb
I think the reason the tube amp sounds so vastly different is because it has a different speaker. I'd love to see a comparison through a Torpedo Live or something.
I agree, but I also add that component tolerance could be at play as well. On the clean samples, you can see on the wave the gains are slightly different. The tube amp is consistently a bit louder. I'd bet money that Fender is using 5% tolerance and that the solid stateTonemaster happens to lean towards the low side of the tolerance. If you wanted to get super anal, take the time and meter the pots to make sure that the to amps are set the same they'd be A LOT closer.
And the TM is modelled of original DRs
Sounds different because one is a silicon sandwich that's basically on/off switch, the other is a vacuum sealed plate where electrons sizzle, excited ions glow with shimmering tones. Transistor tech unchanged from its invention.
I've never seen a more reviewed musical product of any kind, Fender is throwing some serious advertising dough.
People with big ears can hear what I'm saying. A scientist can show it to you with a waveform. Marketers and amateurs can say whatever they like. When you're playing real gigs with many bodies soaking up watts, drums sapping up midrange, those emulation "modeling" amps will fade out.
We're talking about clear penetrating headroom that listeners feel in their bones 50ft in front of the speaker, where a DLR assembles its sound.
These are gorgeous replicas of the real thing, most of you can't tell the difference of what I'm talking about, overtones, space within sound, spaciousness, shimmering reverb like your playing in ah empty swimming pool.
Tech isn't always better. Mp3s don't sound as good as records. Records played on tube amps sound much better than solid state. When i was a kid, solid state was a marketing point. Who knew? Guitar players, that's who. I bought my 1st Fender DLR, a 64 Blackface, in 1978, it's still the best sounding amp. I wouldn't trade it for 5 of these.
Good luck.
@@comicblueswithjonygitar36 sounds like a lot of snobby BS. Blindfold I bet you couldn't tell the difference
The speaker of the tone master has been specially crafted for this amp in order to get it to sound AS CLOSE to a tube deluxe reverb as possible. If they both used the same speaker then they would sound even further apart
Edit for grammar
Tube sounds amazing transistors do it like mmm ok better than nothing
I was on board until things started getting distorted and then I got really sad.
I think the solid state represents better what a strat sounds like if you just play it unplugged the tube one sounds kind of compressed and has a character I prefer the tube sound but the tonemaster sounds great, if the strings on the guitar werent new it would sound aaaalmost like the tube one
They were fairly close on the clean sounds (apart from the tube amp being a bit warmer), but once things started to get dirty the tube amp stomped all over the tonemaster. Get both of them in a rehearsal room with a live band and I wouldn’t mind betting the tonemaster would get lost in the mix as well, as there isn’t enough ‘substance’ in the sound (it’s not just s matter of volume in these situations). I’m not hating on the tonemaster though, for Jazz or Country it’s probably a decent amp
Great comment. Agree completely. Have had a couple of 40 -100 watt solid state that sounded great and loud at home, but disappeared at the gig, especially OD tones.
I think the difference come down to the speaker; they both sound really good
N12k is voiced practically IDENTICALLY to the C12k, check the frequency response graphs on jensentone.com- down to the sensitivity! It's a brand new model made to sound as close as possible to the c12k at half the weight! Incredible!
The deluxe reverb sounds better everywhere. But how loud can most people play is probably the reason they’ll get a tone master. Plus theyre super easy to record from what I can tell
The middle are very different between them, especially cranked. Also the attack of the note is very different between each as well. Definitely like the tube one more and feel it would sit better in a mix. But that’s just me :)
Crazy how they almost got close to the sound structure of the original. But when we got to the distortion, you can definitely hear the differences. But that doesn't make them bad amplifiers though.
The tonemaster sounds bright on distortion though it has some warmth to it, whereas the original one mellows the sharpness out of the sound but it's still punchy and gritty. One just does things a little differently.
Personally in my opinion, despite one being digital and the others being analog tubes , they're both great amps in their own right.
For fender to even go as far from learning from the mistakes they made with the Mustang GT amp series, study their own amp, and try to implement that in a new solid state replica is quite a technical feat, honestly.
Relating it to photography, it's like the tube deluxe is film and the TM is pixels
The same sound for me.😲
Just remember folks this comparison was done with the “reviewers ears” adjusting EQ and everything.
I’ll bet any one of us could get them to sound pretty well identical to us using “our ears.”
No you couldn’t
For me, the notes have a subtle, nice halo around them coming out of the tube version that is lacking in the solid state. It's like the tube version has a little opium running through its veins while the SS is straight edge. Very close otherwise.
Good description ! I wonder if a little more reverb on the TM would make it sound like the DR..... ?
This is a battle Jensen Neo 100 versus Jensen C12N or K ?
I prefer the rounder sound off the Neo 🙂
i think you nailed IT!
Should I boina tone master or a blues jr ???
Repairability?
Well, once again, as soon as you push the tubes, it sounds way better (to my ears) in the analog world. But the cleans are ok.
Please comparison it to a Roland blues Cube Orte katana🤘
Is it more "clean" de Tone Master?
Dear lord, the difference in the distortion is crazy! Not to say one sounded better than the other, to be frank! I'd say, sometimes i prefered one, then the other, then none at all! Cleans is where it's at with a Deluxe, imo.
what microphone did you use
I just wanna get the lighter amp lol
Thanks for nothing! Now I need to buy a Tone Master to compare side by side with my 74 silverface. I never thought I’d say this, since I love my tube amps, but the videos I’ve heard are pretty impressive!
Noooooo!! The tube amp sounds better. That's what we all hoped wouldn't happen. Thanks Häring for le comparison.
who is häring?
Even with the Utube encoding and compression the tube amp sounds so much better.. I have tested a Tonemaster and wss not impressed.. It really doesn't like any form of boost.. Not sure if the one I tested was faulty but with a 10db signal boost I could hear digital artifacts.. Just save the extra and get the real thing. BTW I am a Fender fan boy but they are losing their way with this..
For the six hundred usd difference in price you can’t go wrong with the Tone Master. Difference is in what you like really sound as good or better in my opinion
Although this is a great comparison video, I don’t think you can really “feel” the difference from a UA-cam vid. I recently played a tonemaster twin reverb in a rehearsal studio, and having played thru plenty of real twins in my life, I can tell you there’s a big difference in the way the tube amp pushes air. The tube amp has a much punchier feel to the attack. The tonemaster is by no means a bad amp and has the convenience factor in terms of less weight and less that can go wrong, but if I were gigging at a club that had both amps, I’d choose the tube amp.