Some background about me/this opinion for those new to the channel: I’m 51. I’ve been doing this a while but I’m not exactly old. I was a technical escalations specialist for IBM, then a network contractor for the Navy, then did freelance IT/database/web development. Then I designed and built my own line of guitar pedals using cutting edge opamps running at 30V rail to rail from a 9V DC supply, with all switching done by optocouplers. All the while I worked on tube amps and eventually focused on amp design, restoration, and repair. I have played hundreds of restored vintage Deluxe Reverbs as well as many more reissues. I know how they are supposed to sound, and I know the difference between a Deluxe Reverb compressing and a Dyna-comp. I tried this Tone Master expecting to like it. I ran through the same tonal checks on this I do with all Deluxe Reverbs. Full chords, double stops, complex chords, open and fretted strings, and testing the attack. When I discovered both channels of the Tonemaster have a much more compressed attack than any healthy Deluxe Reverb, I pointed it out. I also mentioned that this could be due to a combination of the Rev 1 firmware and the N12K speaker, and the amps with the Rev 2 firmware and the Neo Creamback might not have this problem. I recorded this opinion in 4K at 24fps on an iPhone 13 Pro then AirDropped the files to an M1 MacBook Pro 16. Editing was done in Premiere Pro and in Logic Pro. The thumbnail was done in Photoshop and Illustrator. I uploaded it at a local coffee shop with 5G WiFi. And then I read I’m “just another old man who doesn’t understand technology .”
Hahaha! One of the many benefits of getting old is being able to write comments such as this ;) I had exactly the same experience a couple of weeks ago with a kid trying to explain modern audio plugins to me 🙄.
Some people are just rude once they're on the internet and anonymous. I for one appreciate your video and channel immensely. I've been a professional guitarist and singer since I left high-school. Amps and guitars are my bread and butter. Having someone who has so much experience in their workings is invaluable to me. I notice that many of the channels on here that give advice on amps are made by people that have probably never played a stadium gig or been a resident band, or played in a recording session in their life. I'd be willing to bet the rude ones fall in that category too. Just ignore the trolls and keep doing what you're doing. So many of us love it.
@@danielmunromusic Ain't that the truth. I think that unfortunately anyone putting themselves out here on UA-cam (and social media in general) faces the same problems. I'm 47 and have also spent pretty much my whole life involved in music and music technology - by this point I know a fair bit about things. I'm not so arrogant as to say I know it all because I don't and take great pleasure in learning and keeping my mind open - one of the reasons I watch Lyle is because I learn so many things, for which I'm immensely grateful. It's got to a point where I don't even really bother commenting much on UA-cam videos, other than to say thanks to the creator, because I just can't be doing with the often crazy and unhinged replies. I always take heart though when I see that there are still some good people around in the comments section. The perils of modern life! Back in my day....
I've been gigging for 58 years using mostly Fender B.F. Fender ampd or Boutique, Marshall.... . I severely injured my back four years ago. I'm 70 years old, I've played all types of music but I mostly play blues. I can no longer do regular gigs but I show up at my jam jam night that I hosted for many years. A friend is hosting it for me now. I go once a week and I can only play for an hour, that's all my back can take. Anyhow (finally), I bought a Tonemaster DR right after my injury because of the weight. I started going back to my jam night about a year ago. I'd bring my 1965 Deluxe Reverb, 66Vibrolux or 66 Super. About 3 months ago I figured I'd try the Tonemaster. Well I'm thrilled with it. I run it at the second click, I believe 12 watts. It sounds just as good as my real DR. It really needs to be cranked to get a good sound. In the house it's kinda blah but playing at a volume of around 6-7 with a 335 it's a great little amp. It was going to change the Jensen to a Celestion but at louder volume I'm very satisfied with the amp and the speaker. It definitely has more headroom than the regular DR. Anyhow, playing with a 4-5 piece band is the only way to really test the amp out. Playing in a little practice room at a music store isn't fair to demo the amp. I am kind of embarrassed with the Tonemaster name plate on the front but it's not fair to remove it. I get many compliments on my tone with the amp. ......and I'm a Tube Snob!
Well that's great but it sounds middling to me and many others. It's funny how everybody who wasted way too much money on these scam amps always run defense for and make the same points. I swear it's like you lot are reading from a script
i own the TM deluxe blonde for over 6 months. and it can get loud as shit i gig 2 to 4 times a week and love it and I'm a tube snob. even outdoors i use the 12-watt setting.
Awesome, thank you for this. I am 48, have played (poorly) for 29 years, and never owned a tube amp (yet). I bought the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb blonde over a year ago and I love it. I didn't do a direct comparison with the tube version, as I wanted the attenuator on the back - I only play at home (with close neighbours). The TM works great for me in my home setting, takes my pedals well, but I can understand why others might prefer the tube version. Cheers!
Howdy everyone. Just my thoughts on this amp. I've owned it and gigged with it for about a year. I have 40 + years stage experience and I think it's sounds pretty darn good. It has a great clean tone and the few pedals that I do use sound pretty good thru this amp. I have a boogie and peavey tube amps and the heat always 🔥 worries me. Plus the tone of your guitar changes throughout the night as those tube continue to get hot. I like my tone to stay steady and consistent. I like to end with sound I started with. I use single coil and humbucking guitars 🎸 and I think this amp delivers every time I use it. I knew I wasn't buying a tube amp when I bought it. I bought the amp for all the features that it has and my 57 year old back appreciates the weight of this amp. The compliments people give me on my playing, and I do get lot, focus on the music that I create with my instruments and not necessarily on the instruments themselves . I learned a long time ago that most of the time your individual performance and the people in front of you, are more important than equipment you have behind you. It really is important to remember all amplifiers are unique and special in there own way . Just respect the differences for what they are and make good music with what you have. Comparing and judging this and that all the time takes away from the magic of making music. Just my thoughts.....peace my brothers and sisters and rock on.
If your tubes are getting hot, a fan helps to cool them down, makes the amp continue sounding good for hours on end. My old GA-40 is like that too, gets hot and loses its great sound after a couple, few hours - depending on ambient temperature. Fans are hot tubes best friend..!
I play a Tonemaster Twin for three years now at many gigs. Never sounded better. The amp replaced a Silverface pro wich was always too loud and a Silverface Princeton which could not fill the room. I tried a player strat as well. That was a really lifeless instrument. For gigging musicians like me the Tonemaster is heaven sent.
I’m Heavily considering the tone master deluxe reverb I have a real deluxe reverb and a super owl black magic I like amps that are about 20 to 30 W I like low wattage amplifiers. I tried the original toner Laster and I also tried the blonde tone master I think the blonde sounds nicer for my style my concern is how does it hold up at a gig since you use when I gigs how does it sound in the mix And does it react like a real Amplifier and if you plug into the IRS to the PA how does that sound I’d appreciate the feedback thanks a lot
"And then I read I’m “just another old man who doesn’t understand technology .” " LOL!!! That is priceless. I'm 60 and have been involved with high tech and embedded systems technology since the mid 80's but guy like you and me no nothing. :D I appreciate your candidness here. I was curious about these Tone Masters but looks like I'll be moving on.
Love my Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb, had it for 2 years now and my Hot Rod Deluxe sits in the studio. No problems loading in and out because of the light weight. My sound guy loves the DI output, 1 less mic on stage. I added the tilt back legs so I can hear myself so no need to take my tilt amp stand. Overall a great amp.
Finally. Someone who addresses the attack of these amps. I bought it, upgraded it, put the neo cream in it and it still didn’t feel right. Had to return.
"It gets small when it should get big" - That sums up every solid state amplifier I have ever played. I have a Katana 2 100w and an old Yamaha g50 112ii that I still enjoy, but nothing feels or blooms like electrons in a vacuum.
@@constantk8780 "Better" is purely subjective. I was referring to how it feels to me when I am playing. I can get great sounds from all of my gear, but so far for me, the feel and dynamics I get from tube amps has yet to be recreated in the digital realm.
I think it’s mostly in the mind… when you think it should sound better it always does, and when it’s loud it definitely sounds better 🤘😀…. There’s no real difference between the latest modeling and the real thing as far as how they sound, and if they sound exactly the same then they feel exactly the same, it’s just that the modelers get you that same tone at a lower volume… in my case I hook my Helix and Kemp to a 12,000watt PA with 4 15 tops and 4 18 inch subs, and assure you everyone thinks it sounds and FEELS better than the real amp sitting right there, because it literally moves everything 😛😉
@@robertw1871 That may be true. All I know is my Helix, Katana, Podxt are worth nothing compared to what I paid for them. But my Deluxe, Vox, and Badcat just keep going ⬆💰 😉
Glad you've gotten to try out the TMDR v1...😎👍 Now for v2🤣😎👍 Hoping to see if you get these in the shop for repairs/upgrades and if/what can be done with them 😉😎👍 Thanks for your honest review... I for one appreciate your input very much😎👍
Thanks for your honest opinion Lyle. I have bought amps based on your experience and recommendations and have been totally satisfied. Tonemaster's do sound good for what they are, but not quite as good as the real thing. Currently they are pushing a grand so I would rather just pay the extra for the real thing.
For what you pay, which is virtually nothing, those fender champions amps are actually pretty good. I bought the smaller champion 20 just to have for 75 bucks off of marketplace and it sounds better than it should. They’re not the real deal obviously but for the money they’re not bad at all.
My Blonde ToneMaster Deluxe Reverb is incredible. It sounds awesome, and the light weight makes it so easy to bring along on gigs or jam sessions. The reverb is perfect, too. I've seen no need for an effects loop, as I don't play highly distorted tones.
I agree with you regarding the TM Deluxe Reverb. I played one in a GC with basically the same rig as you did and was like “meh”. That was a original FW with the Neo speaker, BTW. I honestly thought the Fender GTX50 sounded better. That really is a great little practice amp, BTW. Then I saw the Super Reverb TM in GC and gave it a try. I was much more impressed with the Super. It felt more like an honest to goodness tube amp, like my one Vibroverb hand wired ‘64 reissue. It had attack, sag and bloom like a real tube amp. I don’t know if it’s close to a real tube Super but it sounds great. I bought it and gig with it now and it’s been amazing. I absolutely love the power step down but I find the 0.5 W and 1 W setting fairly useless. I.e. lifeless. I like the 5 and 12 W settings while practicing at home. 12-45 for gigs. Anyway, my $0.02.
I had a Tonemaster Super Reverb for a year. I did okay clean but when i would drive it it would get fizzy. These amps are great but there is no replacing the feel and sound of tubes. I find this guy opinion to be spot on. Tonemasters are too compressed and miss the vibe that tubes give you. A boss katana artist sounds more like a tube amp than these Tonemasters. I have had both. Experienced players will miss the feeling and nuance of tubes. This guy bringa up a good point. When you dig in you can hear that compression and fizzyness. You don't keep that warm clarity and response like a tube amp. The Tonemaster almost had me sold for over a year. There were times i could get it to soyld absolutely wonderful but even through those time i always battled with my sound. Something was always missing. Tubes man! I was a believer but after jamming one of these for a year Im wishing thay i had returned it right away. I traded it in for a made in USA blues deluxe that is currently on its way and i cant wait to have some real tube tone and the feel of tubes under my finger. If you are looking to go solid state a better choice would be the katana artist or and orange super crush. Great review. Keep on rocking.
I recently went to a shop and got put on a Tonemaster. I straight away could tell it wasn't tube. I also tried a Pro Jr and a 68 vibro champ and loved both. They just sounded real.
I thought your review and opinion of this amp was dead on. You played stuff that demonstrated the shortcomings of this amp, and also played stuff that showed that it could have a good sound depending on what was being played. The "it gets small when it should get big" comment was exactly what I thought the last time I tried out a solid state Fender amp. The "ugly guitar face" comment had me laughing so hard, I had to pause the video for a few seconds! So, in summary, another informative and good video from you Mr. Psionic! But then again, what do I know. Being a little older than you, and a semi-retired electronic engineering technician, (who also builds tube amps as a hobby), I may just be another "old man who doesn't understand technology"... ;-)
@@DeltaJazzUK - It depends how the amp is modelled, as if they have accounted for power tube/amp distortion as you turn up the master volume and added that characteristic (which seems likely), it isn't just a clean solid state 'master volume' control anymore, but a part of the tone model and will directly influence and shape the sound at louder volumes. That part of the emulation/voicing just won't occur if the amp's volume control isn't turned up enough so the 'attenuation' is really a power mode selection switch so you can change down to a lower power output and keep those characteristics at lower volume. Not really an attenuator in the strictest sense either... But I'll blame Fender's marketing department for that!
You are clearly an expert with many years of experience working with this stuff. I trust your feedback. But what you said is true, some people might be perfectly happy with this amp. For their style of playing, it might be great. Not everyone needs a tube amp. I have a 50-watt 6V6 tube amp designed by Lee Jackson back in the 90's. I love it. But I spend more time playing my Boss Katana head, than anything else. It's just easier to operate, sounds great at lower volumes, and it doesn't get hot after playing it for 3 hours. Also, no tubes to wear out. I play metal, so I go back and forth between clean, and very high gain tones. I also use many different effects. A mix of a few pedals, and other stuff built-in to the Katana. Do I like the sound of the EVH 100-watt Stealth head? Absolutely. Do I want to spend $2,500 to own one? NOPE.
I get what your saying "Not everyone needs a tube amp" but this amp is advertised as having the tone of such amp. Ya know. A lot of people may buy this anticipating its gonna rival a tube amp and it does not. Theres def a place and player for this amp, itll be interesting down the road how many firmware updates they do and how much better they get these amps sounding. Thats the one plus about the firmware upgradability etc. I wish theyd modeled the speakers after JBLs from that period instead of the C12K. But what can ya do haha.
@@ctcards2636 Marketing strikes again. I wish they would stop labeling everything "tube-like tone!". It's just stupid. The Roland Jazz Chorus 120 is a legendary amp, used by pro artists for many years. Nobody says, "It sounds just like a real tube amp!". It's like they are trying to market this stuff to kids.
Great review. And when I tried it out I thought it was my older than you lead guitar player damaged hearing. My old 1978 silverface DR sounds way better than the Tonemaster, cost me the same or less at the time, and only goes in to the amp tech every couple years. Has lasted me 20 years and still going strong. Keep up the excellent work sir!
Sounds like a 50w or 100w Katana is still ahead of these... As you say these could be something special... suspect over time they will get better and better... thanks for sharing Love your channel!
I was in Melbourne last November, and I went out one evening to a jazz cafe. They had a nice live performance, and the guitar player was using this amp. He sounded great! It was then that I decided I need to get one of these.
Thank you for the review/demonstration, finaly someone who plays the same notes on the same strings to compare the channels. Love your playing and vids, keep up the good work.
Great video, sir. I have a Tone Master Deluxe that I love. I heard about you on @The Guitar Amp Tech, another great channel where I have learned a lot. Thank you!
Thanks for saying what my ears have been hearing. Any number of people talk about weight or convenience but I’m not buying for a second this sounds like the real thing but people buy gear whether it’s an Epiphone or a tonemaster and they’ll have plenty of things to say about why a Gibson Les Paul is a waste of money entirely there’s no difference at all. Only a cork sniffer can hear a tube vs a tone master the audience doesn’t know yada yada.
I’ve been using TM Deluxe about 2 years. Does it sound exactly a tube amp? No, but close enough for rock n roll. I absolutely LOVE that it only weighs 23 pounds 🔥😎‼️
This has probably been said hundreds of times by now, but yes, the speaker is critical to the sound and response of this amp. I bought a TMDR when my back problems forced me to stop touring but still wanted to at least be able to do local shows. Luckily, I already had a Celestion Neo-Creamback and it went in almost immediately. Also, that firmware update is essential as well. It’s quite literally a different amp with those two upgrades, which come stock on the blonde version. I wouldn’t play it with that awful neo Jensen. And for the record I’ve owned an original Deluxe and played many reissues in backlines. Some were better, some were worse, occasionally one was magic.
I was going to challenge you on the few thousand amps a year but based on your bio I dunno. No doubt you have a ton of technical as well as playing experience so i found your insights to be well, refreshing actually. So thank you for your honest review
I'm 52 and there's nothing that will replace a tube amp for me. After 15 years of Peavey's solid state amps back in the late 1980s and 1990s, I bought a cheap Bugera 6262 head and 4x12 cab. Then a Peavey Valve King, then a Mesa DC5 , sold all the heads and cab and bought a Mesa Mark III combo. I won't sell this amp. I am looking at maybe buying a vintage Fender combo of some sort for blues but not sure which one I want to get.
Very insightful review. I have a very similar approach to testing gear. Play softly and listen. All said and done it will never perfectly replicate its big brother because it isn't swinging 450 Volts from preamp to final. The headroom doesn't compare, hence your perfectly phrased "Gets small when it should get big" statement. On the other hand it is by no means a bad amp and will do just fine in most settings outside the studio. Maybe even better than many other solid state amps.
I have had a tonemaster deluxe rev for about 6 months, almost perfect amp for me. The big miss imho was not including an effects loop. Although I knew that when I bought it.
Fender does tend to be very stingy when they could easily make the product better. Same for the headphones. Sure you can use the XLR out, but it’s an extra haste/purchase. An aux in would also be nice for bedroom practicing.
"That sting is not there, it gets small when it should get big" - Deal breaker for me :) Seriously, your channel is awesome. And after that review I know exactly how the amp will feel. There are a lot of demos that make it sound great. And maybe it sounds great recorded. I was looking for a real good critic of the amp, because I wanted to buy one of the Tone Master amps. I'll try to play one in a store. Thanks for this review!
Maybe it's because I'm listening on a phone to a recording made on a phone, but that TM deluxe sounded lame, even the Rivera-era solid states sounded more dimensional than that, when it should snap and snarl it just stayed flat
I agree with you that when you start to "dig-in" a bit the amp loses its personality. Just does not seem to want to play nice compared to a well designed tube circuit. Also, Fender should take you up on adding more watts and power scaling. It would increase versatility and sales to those players needing higher headroom and/or a few more watts.
I like your new phone/laptop/camera set up! You know your stuff. I appreciate this demo and the store for the gear hookup. My first set up age 16 was a Kingston 2 pickup $29 (Eckerds drug store) and a Silvertone 1482 $80 ish ( Christmas gift from Dad). Today’s $ = $952 As a kid I would be over the moon with this gear.
The amazing thing about these is that the models are upgradeable when modelling tech and captures improve. It will likely be a free upgrade too. Seems like everything is going digital anyways.
Always enjoy your vids and thanks for sharing again. Wondering if you can try the blonde version and seeing if you like it any better. I hear that it's a large improvement. Curious. Thanks
I’ve seen many other reviews, some of which were extremely comprehensive. The amps were compared in a “side by side” format, clean and with a variety of effects pedals. The fact is many of the reviewers felt the Tonemasters are very close to the current line of tube amp reissues . I found this review lacking severely and a bit biased…just a bit. No tweaking, no nothing. When you consider the weight and the attenuation options, it’s a pretty darn good substitute. I like mine for home and gigs. Here’s a great review: ua-cam.com/video/NJacQ2CfHwY/v-deo.htmlsi=yDoC5mrsaeW0H4C2 A better and more “balanced” offering.
I have the reissue princeton and I just bought the Fender super reverb. You need to plug in to the super reverb. It has all the snap you could ever want. I play country with telecasters. Have been playing for 58 years with countless amplifiers. This super reverb would tear a steel guitar amplifier up. I know, have a peavey session 400 as well.
While is may not replicate the exact tonal/feel/response of a Deluxe Reverb, what about considering the amp for what it is? Long ago I realized that all instruments and amps have a "voice" of their own, and it's a lot easier to embrace what it has to offer than lust for something it does not. Sure, it is marketed as a Deluxe Reverb, but I think most will accept that it will deviate to some degree from the tube original. With that in mind, and the obvious advantages of the lower weight and cost, time will tell if it becomes a popular (and reliable/serviceable) amp.
Totally agree with your assessment of the stock Neo Jensen, even when it’s been broken in. The later firmware helps a bit, but clean and breakup tones improved drastically when I transferred the Weber Alinico P12Q copy from my 5E3 into the Tonemaster. It’s still more compressed than a good point-to-point DR, but not to a point that I would find annoying.
Do you think your experience with hearing different amps and speakers relate to hearing them in a full band mix? This part of the conversation is often left out but is important to consider since maybe most of the guys using these amps are just using them at a gig at full band volume. Often times, the subtleties of speakers and such are barely noticeable. Not that they don't matter, but a sound engineer might even have a hard time picking out what is what
I recently recorded some demos with a TM deluxe reverb. I cranked it and got some mushy distortion which worked in the context of a garage punk band. Not the best tone I've heard and I'll stick with my univox stack, but definitely serviceable for a demo. If they were a lot cheaper, I could see these being huge for somebody's first "real" amp. They certainly beat the hell out of my line 6 spider III
I have the twin,if what I'm hearing on here is sonically truthful there is a mile of difference between the deluxe tonemaster and twin. I've got plenty of amps to chose from and I'm sadly far from a snob. I'd love to own a vintage twin to compare to the supposed inferior tonemaster but it's a pipedream. Im not in a position to condemn as I do like both the weight and the sound. I recently got a Princeton 68 custom and a speaker swap improved it markedly ,the possibility of any of my amps will die a miserable death,especially if it proves impossible to repair , would play on my mind but that is a fact of life. Shiny new anything is great till it goes bad and yes old stuff behaves the same. In a perfect world we'd all be satisfied but that's not happening any time soon. Thankyou psionic for giving us your wisdom and insight,despite your thoughts Ive committed serious misjudgment in purchasing amps that I shouldn't,even though they make me happy ,short term maybe?
I liked the clean sound. Could not get it to break up or use a pedal to get a great sound ok-ish was easily obtained. Light gain or heavy just wasn’t right, Bobby. Clean was surprisingly good .
I played through one at a gig earlier this year. I thought it sounded good, but it didn't seem as touch sensitive to my picking as I hoped it would be. To be fair, I had very little time to experiment with it - we were one of many acts at City Winery that night, so it was kind of plug in, twist a few dials, and count off the first song. I'd love to sit with one for a while and see what it can do. The weight is a big plus - I still have the Twin Reverb I bought when I was 17, and it's put on a lot of weight over the last 53 years!
Yeh. These amps sound pretty amazing. And son, having had five bad lower discs and two hip replacements ... I would really appreciate their light weight. I just wonder how long these things will take even weekend jobbing ...
i really like the tremolo and reverb on these, but thats about it. I know theres a $500 difference but I shot the TMDR out with the 68 custom DR and its a world of difference. the 68 is just so full in the exact right way you'd expect from it. the TMDR sounds about 80% there to me, but it just isn't a DR, and it won't be without some sort of extra something added to it.
I purchased the blonde deluxe TM twin. It’s not a tube amp, therefore doesn’t sound just like one, but it still sounds very good especially on the higher attenuation settings. I find an EQ pedal also helps to thicken up the sound. Takes OD and delay pedals well too. If you must have that pure tube sound and feel, don’t buy one, but if you want an amp with attenuation for home use, while still having plenty of balls for a live setting, then these amps are well worth looking at.
Only reason if get a tone master is for the attenuator, but if go for the super. That being said, I have a captor x and that does the attenuation I need just fine for a real super
It is really nice to sit in front a guitar amp and talk about the subtle nuance of the tone it produces, and compare this one in particular with it's tube equivalent. I really enjoy watching all of the Tonemaster videos to see what the reviewers are going to say. In my opinion though, all of the nuance is lost once the amp is at the volume required to play over a Rock and Roll drummer. I have the Tonemaster Twin and will soon have a Tonemaster Deluxe. I have a vintage hand wired version of both of those amps, and am so impressed with the Tonemaster Twin for live shows, that I will never consider lugging the tube versions to a show ever again! I believe the Tonemaster models by Fender are the future of live music, and really hope the other great Amplifier companies follow suite with digital clones of their classic amps.
Yes. I feel that many of the negative comments don't have real experience with the tonemasters. I have the Deluxe Blonde, and it really solves the issues with brightness and fizziness. The cream speaker is great , it has more mids too. In any case, I have 2 tube amps (Fender and Vox) that never live the house anymore .
I'll never give-up my tube amps simply because I love looking at glowing tubes.........................! (plus nobody makes anything that sounds as good to me as my '58 GA 40, JMI AC-10 clone head, or other golden era Gibson amps, or my Ampeg '61 Reverborocket with 6V6, or B12X fliptop portoflex for guitar but also gets that "James Jamerson" bass sound, and bass players say the 12" speaker records better, but they're not blowing the original C12N in mine!
Where ya been, Lyle!? Nice having ya back! These amps seem like they were made for home recording through mediocre systems. The average player won’t have a problem with these. Amp and guitar snobs need not apply ;-) I DO like using the one in my local mom/pop music store to try out pedals at low volumes ,tho.
Good review. I own a blonde one and use it as a living room noodling amp (attenuator on the lowest wattage setting) while watching tv. Works fine for that but I would never record with it. I could make it work live if I needed to.
They didn't do a good job with the deluxe Tonemaster. I couldn't deal with that compression either. But the Twin TM is COMPLETELY different. It does not have the feel issues of the deluxe. I don't know why anyone would take the deluxe TM when the Twin offers so much more. The Twin TM is really damn close to my actual TRRI in both tone and feel. My only other gripe is the trem is meh and the reverb is kinda cheesy. I use a 6g15 and a pedal for trem so it doesn't matter in my case, but there is definitely some shortcomings with these amps.
For me personally, as long as tubes are available I will never use a modeler. That's just a preference, just for me. If tubes go the way of the dodo I'll get one. It doesn't matter how close they can emulate tubes or how good they are. I still don't want one. If people get joy and inspiration from their sound that's all that matters. Oddly, I bought an amp without reverb and bought a Strymon Flint cuz I'm a reverb junkie... can't live without it. I a/b the Flint next to an AC15C1 (solid state reverb with a spring tank), my old Deluxe Reverb, and a vintage standalone tube driven reverb unit and got over the fact that it wasn't tube driven in about 2 minutes.
I have, use, and love the Flint. I don't use it on the channel very often as I am usually demoing amps, so if the amp doesn't have reverb, I record it dry. But it's a great pedal.
@@PsionicAudio Funny...I have the "black knob" edition. The Strymon literature clearly explains that it is not a special edition in any way and that their supplier simply ran out of cream colored knobs so they used what they could find.
I'd love to hear your take on a Jazz Chorus 40. Which is what I bought instead of a Tonemaster. I used to play a Mesa, but after the third time in the shop within a year, I thought I'd try a solid state. I've been very happy with the JC40.
I love my JC-40, although a friend of mine just prevailed upon me to buy his Fender Supersonic. I got attached to the JC series when I was living in New York City and playing in rehearsal spaces on the amps provided. I'd see a tube amp that I'd always wanted to play, and it would invariably be in horrible condition. Pretty soon, I started making a beeline for the JC-120, which always sounded the same. I've also never been to a show where I thought the guitar player sounded bad because they were playing a JC. They do need a bit of pedal help, though.
Thanks for your review, when I looked up the specs on the amp on Fender it actually is 100watts at 8 Ohms. I think the wattage listed on the attenuator is the tube wattage it is simulating and not the actual wattage it is running at.
@@PsionicAudio A video explaining this would be awesome, so is the Tonemaster just a 100 watt solid state amp and the attenuation switch is really just a master volume?
‘It gets small when it should get big…’! My missus has been telling me that for years. I commented that I married a Twin Reverb and ended up with two four by twelves with a knackered head.
Thanks for another informative video! That amp and I would never get along. I think it's more than just the speaker that's causing it to clamp down and not respond properly when you push it by plucking the strings or strumming hard.
re "wouldn't it be nice if this was a 50W amp". Fender says it's actually a 100W amp (needed to simulate a 22W tube amp). I think their tonemaster twin is a 200W amp. A nod to the old reality about volume when comparing tube and solid state amps. My neighbor's windows fear my 60W fender Concert, but don't worry about my 50W solid state Marshall.
Great video! Since some days I am addicted to this channel. Talking about cones, what's your opinion about the widely used Celestion seventy 80 for Marshalls? It would be creat to hear you talking about some improvements that can be made, even if this is very subjective... Thanks for the channel!
A Deluxe Reverb doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, to most players. It’s a bit too small for loud bands. A bit too big for bedroom use. The Twin Reverb Tone Master is the best of the bunch, in my opinion. Bedroom to Stage, a great amp. I played the Blonde & the Black Tolex versions a few times, before buying. Both sounded great but, playing style really dictates what’s better for you. I went for the black, personally. The Tone Masters aren’t a perfect clone. But, I feel like i’m sitting in front of a Twin Reverb, when I’m playing mine. It’s amazing. I hope they continue update software for these amps.
its actually 100 watts, i keep the front volume less then 4 (much like a real DR) and boost the front end to get the attack and feel right. Even at outdoor venues i never use the full 22 watt setting
@@PsionicAudio are you 100% sure on that? Because what they said back when these first came out was that it took 100 watts solid state to emulate the volume feel of 22 watts tube.
I'm 58 and have been playing guitar actively in bands since 12 years old. Currently own a Lo Power Tweed Twin, a '57 Tweed Deluxe RI, a '63 Vibroverb RI, a '65 Princeton RI, a Champ and a 50w Marshall Origin Combo (my least favourite). I bought a TMDR Blonde. Really tried, but didn't like the sound or feel, swapped in a Celestion Gold, better but still no cigar. The only thing good about this amp is the weight, but having said that, it might even be too light. Sorry folks ... no tubes, no love.
At least you’re indicating it’s “your” dislike and not telling everybody how bad these are as if being the final authority like some on here are doing. BTW, the ability to attenuate the amp is worth a lot to many of us.
May I ask you a question Mr psionic? Harmony has come out with 3 new tube amps , 5 watt, 20 watt, and 50 Watt. Do you have any opinion on what the company has produced so far in their history of amps? I’m definitely thinking on purchasing the 20 watt soon.
I have the h605! It’s alright, doesn’t have much of a “voice” as far as I can tell. Lows are compressed and highs aren’t exactly sparkling, reverb leaves much to be desired. But it’s a nice little home practice amp due to the line out and effects loop. I too would love Mr. Psionic to have a go at one for comparison because it’s my only amp.
A question I've been asking and no-one seems to be able to answer (or maybe avoid answering...) can the ToneMaster series amps keep up with a drummer (for both rehearsal and live) without going into icepick territory?
It’s a 100W Class D ICE module limited to the output of a Deluxe Reverb, which is 22W clean, approaching 30W on peaks when pushed. Notice the amp also comes with the neo Creamback speaker, which is a 60W speaker. If the TM DR was putting out 100W that speaker would die. I’ve seen other videos saying it’s 100W and that “tube watts are louder than solid state watts.” These people should not be discussing amps.
Sounding harsher & less dynamic than my DRRI. For something like this (and the price,) one might as well grab some other modeler that would give more versatility.
I would rather put the money towards a good AB763 kit than buy a Tonemaster. Get a guy like Lyle to build one for you and you’ll have a better sounding amp than the $3k Fender Custom Shop Deluxe Reverb. If I can do it, Lyle definitely can and he’d do a better job than me.
One thing I hear while playing digital amps is that compression issue that you mentioned . It's hard for me to explain . It's like the dynamics are off . When you strum you don't get the separation like you do in a tube amp , like the amp is flat .
through the headphone I actually like my solidstate better, PR 2x10 chorus, and Frontman FM 212 both do not have that comression that I hear in that amp and I hate compression. That just does not cut it. I guess that is why so many are on the resale market.
i wonder if the channels are out of phase - (i still don't understand why most people don't play Fender Blackface/Silverface Reverb amps with a phase reverse pedal though both channels- if you haven't.... try it!! The best way to play a Fender)
12:40, this would be very cool to have a 50 watt setting, but you are missing the point. The amp is supposed to be a lightweight, modern reliable version of the original, and not stray far from the original. The attenuator is for being able to play at home or smaller gigs maybe, and the xlr out is for gigs or easy recording. This amp isn't meant to be better than the original, it is rather meant to be as close as possible.
Some background about me/this opinion for those new to the channel:
I’m 51. I’ve been doing this a while but I’m not exactly old.
I was a technical escalations specialist for IBM, then a network contractor for the Navy, then did freelance IT/database/web development.
Then I designed and built my own line of guitar pedals using cutting edge opamps running at 30V rail to rail from a 9V DC supply, with all switching done by optocouplers.
All the while I worked on tube amps and eventually focused on amp design, restoration, and repair. I have played hundreds of restored vintage Deluxe Reverbs as well as many more reissues. I know how they are supposed to sound, and I know the difference between a Deluxe Reverb compressing and a Dyna-comp.
I tried this Tone Master expecting to like it. I ran through the same tonal checks on this I do with all Deluxe Reverbs. Full chords, double stops, complex chords, open and fretted strings, and testing the attack.
When I discovered both channels of the Tonemaster have a much more compressed attack than any healthy Deluxe Reverb, I pointed it out.
I also mentioned that this could be due to a combination of the Rev 1 firmware and the N12K speaker, and the amps with the Rev 2 firmware and the Neo Creamback might not have this problem.
I recorded this opinion in 4K at 24fps on an iPhone 13 Pro then AirDropped the files to an M1 MacBook Pro 16. Editing was done in Premiere Pro and in Logic Pro. The thumbnail was done in Photoshop and Illustrator.
I uploaded it at a local coffee shop with 5G WiFi.
And then I read I’m “just another old man who doesn’t understand technology .”
Hahaha! One of the many benefits of getting old is being able to write comments such as this ;) I had exactly the same experience a couple of weeks ago with a kid trying to explain modern audio plugins to me 🙄.
Some people are just rude once they're on the internet and anonymous. I for one appreciate your video and channel immensely. I've been a professional guitarist and singer since I left high-school. Amps and guitars are my bread and butter. Having someone who has so much experience in their workings is invaluable to me. I notice that many of the channels on here that give advice on amps are made by people that have probably never played a stadium gig or been a resident band, or played in a recording session in their life. I'd be willing to bet the rude ones fall in that category too. Just ignore the trolls and keep doing what you're doing. So many of us love it.
@@danielmunromusic Ain't that the truth. I think that unfortunately anyone putting themselves out here on UA-cam (and social media in general) faces the same problems. I'm 47 and have also spent pretty much my whole life involved in music and music technology - by this point I know a fair bit about things. I'm not so arrogant as to say I know it all because I don't and take great pleasure in learning and keeping my mind open - one of the reasons I watch Lyle is because I learn so many things, for which I'm immensely grateful.
It's got to a point where I don't even really bother commenting much on UA-cam videos, other than to say thanks to the creator, because I just can't be doing with the often crazy and unhinged replies. I always take heart though when I see that there are still some good people around in the comments section. The perils of modern life! Back in my day....
Great response! Thanks for your videos and EXPERT opinions.
OMG you're younger than me!
I've been gigging for 58 years using mostly Fender B.F. Fender ampd or Boutique, Marshall.... . I severely injured my back four years ago. I'm 70 years old, I've played all types of music but I mostly play blues. I can no longer do regular gigs but I show up at my jam jam night that I hosted for many years. A friend is hosting it for me now. I go once a week and I can only play for an hour, that's all my back can take. Anyhow (finally), I bought a Tonemaster DR right after my injury because of the weight. I started going back to my jam night about a year ago. I'd bring my 1965 Deluxe Reverb, 66Vibrolux or 66 Super. About 3 months ago I figured I'd try the Tonemaster. Well I'm thrilled with it. I run it at the second click, I believe 12 watts. It sounds just as good as my real DR. It really needs to be cranked to get a good sound. In the house it's kinda blah but playing at a volume of around 6-7 with a 335 it's a great little amp. It was going to change the Jensen to a Celestion but at louder volume I'm very satisfied with the amp and the speaker. It definitely has more headroom than the regular DR. Anyhow, playing with a 4-5 piece band is the only way to really test the amp out. Playing in a little practice room at a music store isn't fair to demo the amp. I am kind of embarrassed with the Tonemaster name plate on the front but it's not fair to remove it. I get many compliments on my tone with the amp. ......and I'm a Tube Snob!
Well that's great but it sounds middling to me and many others. It's funny how everybody who wasted way too much money on these scam amps always run defense for and make the same points. I swear it's like you lot are reading from a script
i own the TM deluxe blonde for over 6 months. and it can get loud as shit i gig 2 to 4 times a week and love it and I'm a tube snob. even outdoors i use the 12-watt setting.
I don't own one but I would buy the blonde.
"It gets small when it should get big" Thats what she said.
Awesome, thank you for this. I am 48, have played (poorly) for 29 years, and never owned a tube amp (yet). I bought the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb blonde over a year ago and I love it. I didn't do a direct comparison with the tube version, as I wanted the attenuator on the back - I only play at home (with close neighbours). The TM works great for me in my home setting, takes my pedals well, but I can understand why others might prefer the tube version. Cheers!
Howdy everyone. Just my thoughts on this amp. I've owned it and gigged with it for about a year. I have 40 + years stage experience and I think it's sounds pretty darn good. It has a great clean tone and the few pedals that I do use sound pretty good thru this amp. I have a boogie and peavey tube amps and the heat always 🔥 worries me. Plus the tone of your guitar changes throughout the night as those tube continue to get hot. I like my tone to stay steady and consistent. I like to end with sound I started with. I use single coil and humbucking guitars 🎸 and I think this amp delivers every time I use it. I knew I wasn't buying a tube amp when I bought it. I bought the amp for all the features that it has and my 57 year old back appreciates the weight of this amp. The compliments people give me on my playing, and I do get lot, focus on the music that I create with my instruments and not necessarily on the instruments themselves . I learned a long time ago that most of the time your individual performance and the people in front of you, are more important than equipment you have behind you. It really is important to remember all amplifiers are unique and special in there own way . Just respect the differences for what they are and make good music with what you have. Comparing and judging this and that all the time takes away from the magic of making music. Just my thoughts.....peace my brothers and sisters and rock on.
Well said.
If your tubes are getting hot, a fan helps to cool them down, makes the amp continue sounding good for hours on end. My old GA-40 is like that too, gets hot and loses its great sound after a couple, few hours - depending on ambient temperature. Fans are hot tubes best friend..!
You just described every reason why modelling has become so popular.
I play a Tonemaster Twin for three years now at many gigs. Never sounded better. The amp replaced a Silverface pro wich was always too loud and a Silverface Princeton which could not fill the room. I tried a player strat as well. That was a really lifeless instrument. For gigging musicians like me the Tonemaster is heaven sent.
I’m Heavily considering the tone master deluxe reverb I have a real deluxe reverb and a super owl black magic I like amps that are about 20 to 30 W I like low wattage amplifiers. I tried the original toner Laster and I also tried the blonde tone master I think the blonde sounds nicer for my style my concern is how does it hold up at a gig since you use when I gigs how does it sound in the mix And does it react like a real Amplifier and if you plug into the IRS to the PA how does that sound I’d appreciate the feedback thanks a lot
Have you had a chance to try it direct out to desk and using iems at a gig? How did the breakup sound?
These amps sound like a gaping mans assho le, but maybe some people like that.
"And then I read I’m “just another old man who doesn’t understand technology .” " LOL!!! That is priceless. I'm 60 and have been involved with high tech and embedded systems technology since the mid 80's but guy like you and me no nothing. :D I appreciate your candidness here. I was curious about these Tone Masters but looks like I'll be moving on.
Love my Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb, had it for 2 years now and my Hot Rod Deluxe sits in the studio. No problems loading in and out because of the light weight. My sound guy loves the DI output, 1 less mic on stage. I added the tilt back legs so I can hear myself so no need to take my tilt amp stand. Overall a great amp.
Finally. Someone who addresses the attack of these amps. I bought it, upgraded it, put the neo cream in it and it still didn’t feel right. Had to return.
So you bought it, changed speaker and then returned it? You're full of shit.
what's your main amp now?
"It gets small when it should get big" - That sums up every solid state amplifier I have ever played. I have a Katana 2 100w and an old Yamaha g50 112ii that I still enjoy, but nothing feels or blooms like electrons in a vacuum.
You're correct. Nothing does quite sound like that. But we've got mountains of technology that sounds better.
@@constantk8780 "Better" is purely subjective. I was referring to how it feels to me when I am playing. I can get great sounds from all of my gear, but so far for me, the feel and dynamics I get from tube amps has yet to be recreated in the digital realm.
well valves are destroying the planet
and are unsustainable, good riddance
I think it’s mostly in the mind… when you think it should sound better it always does, and when it’s loud it definitely sounds better 🤘😀…. There’s no real difference between the latest modeling and the real thing as far as how they sound, and if they sound exactly the same then they feel exactly the same, it’s just that the modelers get you that same tone at a lower volume… in my case I hook my Helix and Kemp to a 12,000watt PA with 4 15 tops and 4 18 inch subs, and assure you everyone thinks it sounds and FEELS better than the real amp sitting right there, because it literally moves everything 😛😉
@@robertw1871 That may be true. All I know is my Helix, Katana, Podxt are worth nothing compared to what I paid for them. But my Deluxe, Vox, and Badcat just keep going ⬆💰 😉
The title alone coming from this guy meant that I could not click fast enough
Glad you've gotten to try out the TMDR v1...😎👍
Now for v2🤣😎👍
Hoping to see if you get these in the shop for repairs/upgrades and if/what can be done with them 😉😎👍
Thanks for your honest review...
I for one appreciate your input very much😎👍
Thanks for your honest opinion Lyle. I have bought amps based on your experience and recommendations and have been totally satisfied. Tonemaster's do sound good for what they are, but not quite as good as the real thing. Currently they are pushing a grand so I would rather just pay the extra for the real thing.
Had a tonemaster and sold it. Now Ive got a Champion 40 and can get exactly the same tones at a far cheaper price.
For what you pay, which is virtually nothing, those fender champions amps are actually pretty good. I bought the smaller champion 20 just to have for 75 bucks off of marketplace and it sounds better than it should. They’re not the real deal obviously but for the money they’re not bad at all.
I love my champion 20. It sounds great. I also run my Tonex into the aux port and it sounds awesome. Great amps for the money.
My Blonde ToneMaster Deluxe Reverb is incredible. It sounds awesome, and the light weight makes it so easy to bring along on gigs or jam sessions. The reverb is perfect, too. I've seen no need for an effects loop, as I don't play highly distorted tones.
I agree with you regarding the TM Deluxe Reverb. I played one in a GC with basically the same rig as you did and was like “meh”. That was a original FW with the Neo speaker, BTW. I honestly thought the Fender GTX50 sounded better. That really is a great little practice amp, BTW. Then I saw the Super Reverb TM in GC and gave it a try. I was much more impressed with the Super. It felt more like an honest to goodness tube amp, like my one Vibroverb hand wired ‘64 reissue. It had attack, sag and bloom like a real tube amp. I don’t know if it’s close to a real tube Super but it sounds great. I bought it and gig with it now and it’s been amazing. I absolutely love the power step down but I find the 0.5 W and 1 W setting fairly useless. I.e. lifeless. I like the 5 and 12 W settings while practicing at home. 12-45 for gigs. Anyway, my $0.02.
I had a Tonemaster Super Reverb for a year. I did okay clean but when i would drive it it would get fizzy. These amps are great but there is no replacing the feel and sound of tubes. I find this guy opinion to be spot on. Tonemasters are too compressed and miss the vibe that tubes give you. A boss katana artist sounds more like a tube amp than these Tonemasters. I have had both. Experienced players will miss the feeling and nuance of tubes. This guy bringa up a good point. When you dig in you can hear that compression and fizzyness. You don't keep that warm clarity and response like a tube amp. The Tonemaster almost had me sold for over a year. There were times i could get it to soyld absolutely wonderful but even through those time i always battled with my sound. Something was always missing. Tubes man! I was a believer but after jamming one of these for a year Im wishing thay i had returned it right away. I traded it in for a made in USA blues deluxe that is currently on its way and i cant wait to have some real tube tone and the feel of tubes under my finger. If you are looking to go solid state a better choice would be the katana artist or and orange super crush. Great review. Keep on rocking.
I recently went to a shop and got put on a Tonemaster. I straight away could tell it wasn't tube. I also tried a Pro Jr and a 68 vibro champ and loved both. They just sounded real.
I thought your review and opinion of this amp was dead on. You played stuff that demonstrated the shortcomings of this amp, and also played stuff that showed that it could have a good sound depending on what was being played. The "it gets small when it should get big" comment was exactly what I thought the last time I tried out a solid state Fender amp. The "ugly guitar face" comment had me laughing so hard, I had to pause the video for a few seconds! So, in summary, another informative and good video from you Mr. Psionic! But then again, what do I know. Being a little older than you, and a semi-retired electronic engineering technician, (who also builds tube amps as a hobby), I may just be another "old man who doesn't understand technology"... ;-)
It’s a trade off. Super light with modern features like attenuation and direct out for a compromised tone and feel.
What use is attenuation? it's not a valve amp that you want to overdrive at lower volumes. Just turn it down if you want it quieter.
@@DeltaJazzUK - It depends how the amp is modelled, as if they have accounted for power tube/amp distortion as you turn up the master volume and added that characteristic (which seems likely), it isn't just a clean solid state 'master volume' control anymore, but a part of the tone model and will directly influence and shape the sound at louder volumes. That part of the emulation/voicing just won't occur if the amp's volume control isn't turned up enough so the 'attenuation' is really a power mode selection switch so you can change down to a lower power output and keep those characteristics at lower volume. Not really an attenuator in the strictest sense either... But I'll blame Fender's marketing department for that!
@@NFMorley
It certainly isn’t the first time Fender has misnamed something.
You are clearly an expert with many years of experience working with this stuff. I trust your feedback.
But what you said is true, some people might be perfectly happy with this amp. For their style of playing, it might be great.
Not everyone needs a tube amp. I have a 50-watt 6V6 tube amp designed by Lee Jackson back in the 90's. I love it. But I spend more time playing my Boss Katana head, than anything else. It's just easier to operate, sounds great at lower volumes, and it doesn't get hot after playing it for 3 hours. Also, no tubes to wear out. I play metal, so I go back and forth between clean, and very high gain tones. I also use many different effects. A mix of a few pedals, and other stuff built-in to the Katana. Do I like the sound of the EVH 100-watt Stealth head? Absolutely. Do I want to spend $2,500 to own one? NOPE.
I get what your saying "Not everyone needs a tube amp" but this amp is advertised as having the tone of such amp. Ya know. A lot of people may buy this anticipating its gonna rival a tube amp and it does not. Theres def a place and player for this amp, itll be interesting down the road how many firmware updates they do and how much better they get these amps sounding. Thats the one plus about the firmware upgradability etc. I wish theyd modeled the speakers after JBLs from that period instead of the C12K. But what can ya do haha.
@@ctcards2636 Marketing strikes again. I wish they would stop labeling everything "tube-like tone!". It's just stupid. The Roland Jazz Chorus 120 is a legendary amp, used by pro artists for many years. Nobody says, "It sounds just like a real tube amp!". It's like they are trying to market this stuff to kids.
@@TheCyberMantis ^ Very true
Really hard to beat katana. Performance for the price is untouchable
Great review. And when I tried it out I thought it was my older than you lead guitar player damaged hearing. My old 1978 silverface DR sounds way better than the Tonemaster, cost me the same or less at the time, and only goes in to the amp tech every couple years. Has lasted me 20 years and still going strong. Keep up the excellent work sir!
I enjoy your videos. Great job as always!
Sounds like a 50w or 100w Katana is still ahead of these... As you say these could be something special... suspect over time they will get better and better... thanks for sharing Love your channel!
I was in Melbourne last November, and I went out one evening to a jazz cafe. They had a nice live performance, and the guitar player was using this amp. He sounded great! It was then that I decided I need to get one of these.
Thank you for the review/demonstration, finaly someone who plays the same notes on the same strings to compare the channels. Love your playing and vids, keep up the good work.
Great video, sir. I have a Tone Master Deluxe that I love. I heard about you on @The Guitar Amp Tech, another great channel where I have learned a lot. Thank you!
Thanks for saying what my
ears have been hearing. Any number of people talk about weight or convenience but I’m not buying for a second this sounds like the real thing but people buy gear whether it’s an Epiphone or a tonemaster and they’ll have plenty of things to say about why a Gibson Les Paul is a waste of money entirely there’s no difference at all. Only a cork sniffer can hear a tube vs a tone master the audience doesn’t know yada yada.
I’ve been using TM Deluxe about 2 years. Does it sound exactly a tube amp? No, but close enough for rock n roll. I absolutely LOVE that it only weighs 23 pounds 🔥😎‼️
You are 100% correct. It gets small when it should get big!! Glad I didn't run out to buy one:))
I love your channel and reviews, insight and opinion. Its important to listen to others. I come here for no bs anaylsis of shit im looking into !!!!
i had a neo creamback in my hot rod deluxe for 3 or 4 years. i'm liking it.
This has probably been said hundreds of times by now, but yes, the speaker is critical to the sound and response of this amp. I bought a TMDR when my back problems forced me to stop touring but still wanted to at least be able to do local shows. Luckily, I already had a Celestion Neo-Creamback and it went in almost immediately. Also, that firmware update is essential as well. It’s quite literally a different amp with those two upgrades, which come stock on the blonde version. I wouldn’t play it with that awful neo Jensen. And for the record I’ve owned an original Deluxe and played many reissues in backlines. Some were better, some were worse, occasionally one was magic.
I was going to challenge you on the few thousand amps a year but based on your bio I dunno. No doubt you have a ton of technical as well as playing experience so i found your insights to be well, refreshing actually. So thank you for your honest review
I'm 52 and there's nothing that will replace a tube amp for me. After 15 years of Peavey's solid state amps back in the late 1980s and 1990s, I bought a cheap Bugera 6262 head and 4x12 cab. Then a Peavey Valve King, then a Mesa DC5 , sold all the heads and cab and bought a Mesa Mark III combo. I won't sell this amp. I am looking at maybe buying a vintage Fender combo of some sort for blues but not sure which one I want to get.
Fender vibrolux reverb can do it all.
It probably should be noted that the blonde version of this is considered to be the better version.
Some necessary tweaks were made.
I have the bright cap removed on my SF DR, a common mod. I think that is switchable in the update. And the speaker upgraded.
the firmware update (vintage spec) really makes the amp sound better
Very insightful review.
I have a very similar approach to testing gear. Play softly and listen.
All said and done it will never perfectly replicate its big brother because it isn't swinging 450 Volts from preamp to final. The headroom doesn't compare, hence your perfectly phrased "Gets small when it should get big" statement.
On the other hand it is by no means a bad amp and will do just fine in most settings outside the studio. Maybe even better than many other solid state amps.
The vegetarian hamburger of amps.
I have had a tonemaster deluxe rev for about 6 months, almost perfect amp for me. The big miss imho was not including an effects loop. Although I knew that when I bought it.
Fender does tend to be very stingy when they could easily make the product better. Same for the headphones. Sure you can use the XLR out, but it’s an extra haste/purchase. An aux in would also be nice for bedroom practicing.
I've heard that they are more power under the hood, so the '22 watts' is really a 100 watt class D power amp.
It’s a 100W ICE module being limited to the level of a 22W DR. Notice the Neo Creamback is a 65W speaker.
"That sting is not there, it gets small when it should get big" - Deal breaker for me :)
Seriously, your channel is awesome. And after that review I know exactly how the amp will feel. There are a lot of demos that make it sound great. And maybe it sounds great recorded. I was looking for a real good critic of the amp, because I wanted to buy one of the Tone Master amps. I'll try to play one in a store. Thanks for this review!
Maybe it's because I'm listening on a phone to a recording made on a phone, but that TM deluxe sounded lame, even the Rivera-era solid states sounded more dimensional than that, when it should snap and snarl it just stayed flat
I agree with you that when you start to "dig-in" a bit the amp loses its personality. Just does not seem to want to play nice compared to a well designed tube circuit. Also, Fender should take you up on adding more watts and power scaling. It would increase versatility and sales to those players needing higher headroom and/or a few more watts.
I like your new phone/laptop/camera set up! You know your stuff.
I appreciate this demo and the store for the gear hookup.
My first set up age 16 was a Kingston 2 pickup $29 (Eckerds drug store) and a Silvertone 1482 $80 ish ( Christmas gift from Dad). Today’s $ = $952
As a kid I would be over the moon with this gear.
The amazing thing about these is that the models are upgradeable when modelling tech and captures improve. It will likely be a free upgrade too. Seems like everything is going digital anyways.
When are these upgrades available?
Always enjoy your vids and thanks for sharing again. Wondering if you can try the blonde version and seeing if you like it any better. I hear that it's a large improvement. Curious. Thanks
I am waiting on the tone masters to flesh out and maybe include a few more models
I think that digital amps are nearly there. The missing part now is punch and dynamic range.
Facts
Exactly what I thought after trying one.
I’ve seen many other reviews, some of which were extremely comprehensive. The amps were compared in a “side by side” format, clean and with a variety of effects pedals. The fact is many of the reviewers felt the Tonemasters are very close to the current line of tube amp reissues . I found this review lacking severely and a bit biased…just a bit. No tweaking, no nothing.
When you consider the weight and the attenuation options, it’s a pretty darn good substitute. I like mine for home and gigs.
Here’s a great review:
ua-cam.com/video/NJacQ2CfHwY/v-deo.htmlsi=yDoC5mrsaeW0H4C2
A better and more “balanced” offering.
I have the reissue princeton and I just bought the Fender super reverb. You need to plug in to the super reverb. It has all the snap you could ever want. I play country with telecasters. Have been playing for 58 years with countless amplifiers. This super reverb would tear a steel guitar amplifier up. I know, have a peavey session 400 as well.
While is may not replicate the exact tonal/feel/response of a Deluxe Reverb, what about considering the amp for what it is? Long ago I realized that all instruments and amps have a "voice" of their own, and it's a lot easier to embrace what it has to offer than lust for something it does not. Sure, it is marketed as a Deluxe Reverb, but I think most will accept that it will deviate to some degree from the tube original. With that in mind, and the obvious advantages of the lower weight and cost, time will tell if it becomes a popular (and reliable/serviceable) amp.
Totally agree with your assessment of the stock Neo Jensen, even when it’s been broken in. The later firmware helps a bit, but clean and breakup tones improved drastically when I transferred the Weber Alinico P12Q copy from my 5E3 into the Tonemaster. It’s still more compressed than a good point-to-point DR, but not to a point that I would find annoying.
Do you think your experience with hearing different amps and speakers relate to hearing them in a full band mix?
This part of the conversation is often left out but is important to consider since maybe most of the guys using these amps are just using them at a gig at full band volume.
Often times, the subtleties of speakers and such are barely noticeable.
Not that they don't matter, but a sound engineer might even have a hard time picking out what is what
I gigged for years. I know what works on stage in band context. This amp would disappear.
@@PsionicAudio that's good to know! Do you think a different speaker could fix that? Something more mid forward like a Vintage 30?
@@PsionicAudio Same here. Live in a band setting, is a whole other ballgame. Reaction is where it's at, with an amp.
Give me a valve amp every time.
I recently recorded some demos with a TM deluxe reverb. I cranked it and got some mushy distortion which worked in the context of a garage punk band. Not the best tone I've heard and I'll stick with my univox stack, but definitely serviceable for a demo. If they were a lot cheaper, I could see these being huge for somebody's first "real" amp. They certainly beat the hell out of my line 6 spider III
Excactly! A demo like this is Useless in the real world. It needs to be heard in a band context!
I have the twin,if what I'm hearing on here is sonically truthful there is a mile of difference between the deluxe tonemaster and twin. I've got plenty of amps to chose from and I'm sadly far from a snob. I'd love to own a vintage twin to compare to the supposed inferior tonemaster but it's a pipedream. Im not in a position to condemn as I do like both the weight and the sound. I recently got a Princeton 68 custom and a speaker swap improved it markedly ,the possibility of any of my amps will die a miserable death,especially if it proves impossible to repair , would play on my mind but that is a fact of life. Shiny new anything is great till it goes bad and yes old stuff behaves the same. In a perfect world we'd all be satisfied but that's not happening any time soon. Thankyou psionic for giving us your wisdom and insight,despite your thoughts Ive committed serious misjudgment in purchasing amps that I shouldn't,even though they make me happy ,short term maybe?
Curious to hear your thoughts on the Tone Master Super Reverb.
I liked the clean sound. Could not get it to break up or use a pedal to get a great sound ok-ish was easily obtained. Light gain or heavy just wasn’t right, Bobby. Clean was surprisingly good .
I have the blond TM Deluxe Reverb, and it sounds pretty much like the '71 DR which I gigged for a few years.
I played through one at a gig earlier this year. I thought it sounded good, but it didn't seem as touch sensitive to my picking as I hoped it would be. To be fair, I had very little time to experiment with it - we were one of many acts at City Winery that night, so it was kind of plug in, twist a few dials, and count off the first song. I'd love to sit with one for a while and see what it can do. The weight is a big plus - I still have the Twin Reverb I bought when I was 17, and it's put on a lot of weight over the last 53 years!
Took me 25 years to figure out that Fender tube amps have amazing clean tones.
I always learn something from each video
Yeh. These amps sound pretty amazing. And son, having had five bad lower discs and two hip replacements ... I would really appreciate their light weight. I just wonder how long these things will take even weekend jobbing ...
The TMTR Blonde is the benchmark TM right now! Needs more publicity!
I would use the Blonde Deluxe Reverb Tone master. I have one. It sounds way better
Mike McCready just took these out with Pearl Jam, which seems like a serious event in the amp community
i really like the tremolo and reverb on these, but thats about it. I know theres a $500 difference but I shot the TMDR out with the 68 custom DR and its a world of difference. the 68 is just so full in the exact right way you'd expect from it. the TMDR sounds about 80% there to me, but it just isn't a DR, and it won't be without some sort of extra something added to it.
I purchased the blonde deluxe TM twin. It’s not a tube amp, therefore doesn’t sound just like one, but it still sounds very good especially on the higher attenuation settings. I find an EQ pedal also helps to thicken up the sound. Takes OD and delay pedals well too.
If you must have that pure tube sound and feel, don’t buy one, but if you want an amp with attenuation for home use, while still having plenty of balls for a live setting, then these amps are well worth looking at.
Only reason if get a tone master is for the attenuator, but if go for the super. That being said, I have a captor x and that does the attenuation I need just fine for a real super
Why do you need an attenuator on a digital amp? there are no valves to overdrive. The attenuator is a glorified volume pot.
@@DeltaJazzUK Because of the way the amp is modeled to work like a real tube amp... which all seems pointless. Just buy the real thing.
It is really nice to sit in front a guitar amp and talk about the subtle nuance of the tone it produces, and compare this one in particular with it's tube equivalent.
I really enjoy watching all of the Tonemaster videos to see what the reviewers are going to say.
In my opinion though, all of the nuance is lost once the amp is at the volume required to play over a Rock and Roll drummer.
I have the Tonemaster Twin and will soon have a Tonemaster Deluxe.
I have a vintage hand wired version of both of those amps, and am so impressed with the Tonemaster Twin for live shows, that I will never consider lugging the tube versions to a show ever again!
I believe the Tonemaster models by Fender are the future of live music, and really hope the other great Amplifier companies follow suite with digital clones of their classic amps.
Yes. I feel that many of the negative comments don't have real experience with the tonemasters. I have the Deluxe Blonde, and it really solves the issues with brightness and fizziness. The cream speaker is great , it has more mids too. In any case, I have 2 tube amps (Fender and Vox) that never live the house anymore .
I'll never give-up my tube amps simply because I love looking at glowing tubes.........................! (plus nobody makes anything that sounds as good to me as my '58 GA 40, JMI AC-10 clone head, or other golden era Gibson amps, or my Ampeg '61 Reverborocket with 6V6, or B12X fliptop portoflex for guitar but also gets that "James Jamerson" bass sound, and bass players say the 12" speaker records better, but they're not blowing the original C12N in mine!
Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb would make a good on the road amp as it is mucho lighter than the 'vintage' Deluxe........unless one is a young band member !
Where ya been, Lyle!? Nice having ya back! These amps seem like they were made for home recording through mediocre systems. The average player won’t have a problem with these. Amp and guitar snobs need not apply ;-) I DO like using the one in my local mom/pop music store to try out pedals at low volumes ,tho.
Good review. I own a blonde one and use it as a living room noodling amp (attenuator on the lowest wattage setting) while watching tv. Works fine for that but I would never record with it. I could make it work live if I needed to.
They didn't do a good job with the deluxe Tonemaster. I couldn't deal with that compression either. But the Twin TM is COMPLETELY different. It does not have the feel issues of the deluxe. I don't know why anyone would take the deluxe TM when the Twin offers so much more. The Twin TM is really damn close to my actual TRRI in both tone and feel.
My only other gripe is the trem is meh and the reverb is kinda cheesy. I use a 6g15 and a pedal for trem so it doesn't matter in my case, but there is definitely some shortcomings with these amps.
For me personally, as long as tubes are available I will never use a modeler. That's just a preference, just for me. If tubes go the way of the dodo I'll get one. It doesn't matter how close they can emulate tubes or how good they are. I still don't want one. If people get joy and inspiration from their sound that's all that matters. Oddly, I bought an amp without reverb and bought a Strymon Flint cuz I'm a reverb junkie... can't live without it. I a/b the Flint next to an AC15C1 (solid state reverb with a spring tank), my old Deluxe Reverb, and a vintage standalone tube driven reverb unit and got over the fact that it wasn't tube driven in about 2 minutes.
I have, use, and love the Flint. I don't use it on the channel very often as I am usually demoing amps, so if the amp doesn't have reverb, I record it dry. But it's a great pedal.
@@PsionicAudio Agreed.
@@PsionicAudio Funny...I have the "black knob" edition. The Strymon literature clearly explains that it is not a special edition in any way and that their supplier simply ran out of cream colored knobs so they used what they could find.
great review. I had been put off by comments from others but I'm floater not a digger so it should be fine for me. Thanks.
My Peavy 112 chorus and I will party till the day I die. the distortion is just right. The Reverb is fine. Chorus adds enough 3D. 150 watts of Party.
Please talk about the AVIATOR QUILTER CUB Amp.
A Quilter definitely sounds and feels better than a tonemaster
I'd love to hear your take on a Jazz Chorus 40. Which is what I bought instead of a Tonemaster. I used to play a Mesa, but after the third time in the shop within a year, I thought I'd try a solid state. I've been very happy with the JC40.
I love my JC-40, although a friend of mine just prevailed upon me to buy his Fender Supersonic. I got attached to the JC series when I was living in New York City and playing in rehearsal spaces on the amps provided. I'd see a tube amp that I'd always wanted to play, and it would invariably be in horrible condition. Pretty soon, I started making a beeline for the JC-120, which always sounded the same.
I've also never been to a show where I thought the guitar player sounded bad because they were playing a JC. They do need a bit of pedal help, though.
Thanks for your review, when I looked up the specs on the amp on Fender it actually is 100watts at 8 Ohms. I think the wattage listed on the attenuator is the tube wattage it is simulating and not the actual wattage it is running at.
This is not correct. I’ll do a little video on it. There is no difference between “tube watts” and “solid state watts.”
It’s an easy misunderstanding.
@@PsionicAudio A video explaining this would be awesome, so is the Tonemaster just a 100 watt solid state amp and the attenuation switch is really just a master volume?
‘It gets small when it should get big…’! My missus has been telling me that for years. I commented that I married a Twin Reverb and ended up with two four by twelves with a knackered head.
I didnt like my deluxe reverb tonemaster and sent it back.
I bought a super reverb tonemaster and i love it.
Thanks for another informative video! That amp and I would never get along. I think it's more than just the speaker that's causing it to clamp down and not respond properly when you push it by plucking the strings or strumming hard.
re "wouldn't it be nice if this was a 50W amp". Fender says it's actually a 100W amp (needed to simulate a 22W tube amp). I think their tonemaster twin is a 200W amp. A nod to the old reality about volume when comparing tube and solid state amps. My neighbor's windows fear my 60W fender Concert, but don't worry about my 50W solid state Marshall.
It’s not 100W as it ships with a 65W speaker. The ICE module is 100W but it’s not used at its max.
Great video! Since some days I am addicted to this channel. Talking about cones, what's your opinion about the widely used Celestion seventy 80 for Marshalls? It would be creat to hear you talking about some improvements that can be made, even if this is very subjective... Thanks for the channel!
A Deluxe Reverb doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, to most players. It’s a bit too small for loud bands. A bit too big for bedroom use. The Twin Reverb Tone Master is the best of the bunch, in my opinion. Bedroom to Stage, a great amp. I played the Blonde & the Black Tolex versions a few times, before buying. Both sounded great but, playing style really dictates what’s better for you. I went for the black, personally. The Tone Masters aren’t a perfect clone. But, I feel like i’m sitting in front of a Twin Reverb, when I’m playing mine. It’s amazing. I hope they continue update software for these amps.
if I were going to buy a Tonemaster it wouldn't be a deluxe reverb. I'd probably get a Twin
its actually 100 watts, i keep the front volume less then 4 (much like a real DR) and boost the front end to get the attack and feel right. Even at outdoor venues i never use the full 22 watt setting
It uses a 100W ICE module limited to 22W. I can see why that might be confusing. But it’s not a 100W amp.
@@PsionicAudio are you 100% sure on that? Because what they said back when these first came out was that it took 100 watts solid state to emulate the volume feel of 22 watts tube.
I'm 58 and have been playing guitar actively in bands since 12 years old. Currently own a Lo Power Tweed Twin, a '57 Tweed Deluxe RI, a '63 Vibroverb RI, a '65 Princeton RI, a Champ and a 50w Marshall Origin Combo (my least favourite). I bought a TMDR Blonde. Really tried, but didn't like the sound or feel, swapped in a Celestion Gold, better but still no cigar. The only thing good about this amp is the weight, but having said that, it might even be too light. Sorry folks ... no tubes, no love.
At least you’re indicating it’s “your” dislike and not telling everybody how bad these are as if being the final authority like some on here are doing. BTW, the ability to attenuate the amp is worth a lot to many of us.
@@jimmy5634 I agree. The amps attenuation feature was nice and the DI out sounds pretty decent.
May I ask you a question Mr psionic? Harmony has come out with 3 new tube amps , 5 watt, 20 watt, and 50 Watt. Do you have any opinion on what the company has produced so far in their history of amps? I’m definitely thinking on purchasing the 20 watt soon.
Haven’t had one come in, so no opinion.
I have the h605! It’s alright, doesn’t have much of a “voice” as far as I can tell. Lows are compressed and highs aren’t exactly sparkling, reverb leaves much to be desired. But it’s a nice little home practice amp due to the line out and effects loop. I too would love Mr. Psionic to have a go at one for comparison because it’s my only amp.
A question I've been asking and no-one seems to be able to answer (or maybe avoid answering...) can the ToneMaster series amps keep up with a drummer (for both rehearsal and live) without going into icepick territory?
I've been using a TMDR for 3 years, and yes, it more than keeps up.
It's 100 watts class D. The "22 watt" setting is full power and should be as loud or louder than the 22 watt tube version.
It’s a 100W Class D ICE module limited to the output of a Deluxe Reverb, which is 22W clean, approaching 30W on peaks when pushed.
Notice the amp also comes with the neo Creamback speaker, which is a 60W speaker.
If the TM DR was putting out 100W that speaker would die.
I’ve seen other videos saying it’s 100W and that “tube watts are louder than solid state watts.” These people should not be discussing amps.
Some of the ToneMaster owners sure are salty.
Sounding harsher & less dynamic than my DRRI. For something like this (and the price,) one might as well grab some other modeler that would give more versatility.
I would rather put the money towards a good AB763 kit than buy a Tonemaster.
Get a guy like Lyle to build one for you and you’ll have a better sounding amp than the $3k Fender Custom Shop Deluxe Reverb. If I can do it, Lyle definitely can and he’d do a better job than me.
One thing I hear while playing digital amps is that compression issue that you mentioned . It's hard for me to explain . It's like the dynamics are off . When you strum you don't get the separation like you do in a tube amp , like the amp is flat .
I disagree
through the headphone I actually like my solidstate better, PR 2x10 chorus, and Frontman FM 212 both do not have that comression that I hear in that amp and I hate compression. That just does not cut it. I guess that is why so many are on the resale market.
i wonder if the channels are out of phase - (i still don't understand why most people don't play Fender Blackface/Silverface Reverb amps with a phase reverse pedal though both channels- if you haven't.... try it!! The best way to play a Fender)
12:40, this would be very cool to have a 50 watt setting, but you are missing the point. The amp is supposed to be a lightweight, modern reliable version of the original, and not stray far from the original. The attenuator is for being able to play at home or smaller gigs maybe, and the xlr out is for gigs or easy recording. This amp isn't meant to be better than the original, it is rather meant to be as close as possible.