@@bondobuilt386 I’m originally for Lake George Ny and moved our trucking company to Nashville Tn. In the process now of finishing my 30x50 truck shop and will be putting in floor heat. (They don’t fo that here) despite talking to 20 concrete contractors... I’ll do it my damn self.
Any concerns for the wire tie to eventually rub through the side wall of pipes? Is there enough movement from heating / expansion and cooling/ contraction to cut the pipe from Wire vs a plastic wire tie? 15:20
Hello. We plan on using fiberglass rebar on our shop pour. Question.....do we first put down plastic,then blue insulation, then tubing,then suspend our rebar so its in the middle of the slab? And if so, how can you attach the pex to the blue sheet insulation? Thanks for anyones help in this matter and thanks for these great vids!
thank you for this video! I have a question: if you wanted multiple rooms on this floor, would you do lay the tubing the same way, or leave gaps for under where the partition walls would be?
Thank upi so much for that information. I do have other questions on what if your doing a home with different rooms? how do i figure out how far from the boiler I can put manifold ? How far am can I be from manifold to boiler? And if I want to run them on different thermostats?
Glad you liked the video. You can put the manifold as far as you want from the boiler just run 1” pex or copper from boiler too the manifold. If you want different zones controled by different thermostats you nan use zone valves or separate pumps. many ways to do this. 👍😊
How to study building in a year when I couldn't enrol to study building. I really appreciate you and the other teachers who have posted these sorts of vids - thank you! I'm curious - if you wanted to create a warmer patch in your concrete, under the dog bed or whatever, how would you do that?
They just hook up to a copper pipe with T branches off it. It is a cheap manifold with no controls. you can buy them at Supply House. online. Thanks Patrick.
great video thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. so with mesh and radiant heating how thick do you poor your slab and no rebar is needed to reinforce the slab to prevent it from cracking?
Very well presented and no bs straight forward. I am going to attempt doing a 2100sf third level (tier) house with this then doing 2100sf mid level off of same heater. Would separate 4 loop units work?
Daryl I would need more info to answer that one. I have run loops up to 500 feet and they work awesome. Well insulated under slab and the structure as well. Also what is the heater?
Hi I like your method of installation nice and simple I'm looking to do a radiant floor heating system my floor is 20x30 my floor is spec for 4 inch thick concrete should I bump it up to 6 inch and what was the name of the pump that you listed in this video? Please if you don't mind .
I'm doing a workshop in my back yard I'm doing a red iron steel building from general steel I'm doing 2 inch foam under the slab with 30 inch frost wall (required by my county ) per code
Love your videos. I'm actuall about to pour a 30 x 40 pole building. I'm doing the radiant tubing and a trench drain. I notice you don't fully encapsulate the trench drain in concrete, but all the trench drain systems I'm looking at call for concrete to go underneath the trench drain material. Is this a new thing, of just the brand on trench drain?
I really like your videos and the practical experience you bring to the application of this technology. I am an engineer and have started studying radiant slab heating recently. I have reviewed pump curves, made transient heat models for the slab, developed flow versus head loss estimates for pex circuits etc etc....but I find your experience to be even more valuable. Example is 300 foot versus 400 foot 1/2" pex loops that you talk about. At the typical radiant loop flow rate of 1 gpm this requires 5.5 versus 7.5 psi of pressure. The Taco 009 pump can deliver this pressure out to as much as 8 gpm flow so that is 8 loops. For more loops than that use more, or a bigger pump. Or live with reduced flow. I am designing my 3000 sq foot floor currently. Can you tell me what I should expect the cost of 3" of closed cell spray foam to be ? If the cost is significantly more than rigid XPS poly, would you still go with spray ??
Bret you are spot on for the tubing. We run up to 500’ loops all the time and thgey perform awesome. It makes the system so much simpler. Just want to keep the tubing the same length. I have debated this multiple times but like you said nothing better then pratical experience. 👍 I find that 2” of board foam or 1-1/2” of spray foam are about the same cost consitering my time to put it down. I think 3” is overkill. especially after you get 4 feet in from the exterior walls. You could pray it thicker near the perimeter 4 feet. Just deepen the sub grade out there a little. That would be a cost effective way to increase the insulation. Regards Bondo
What is the calculation for rolls of tube for size of floor? I am building a 40x90. I understand it is 1 to 1 ft to sqft now much do you allow for the corners and connections
Hi, I have seen on other radiant floor jobs they have said the tubing has measurements on it. Is this true on 1000 foot rolls? If not how do you measure out the tubing?Thanks
@@josephscheurell8195 I dont know anybody in that area but I think you could do it with my videos. Do 3 loops of 1/2” oxegen barrior pex at 400’ each loop. Make sure you have 2” of polystyrene insulation or 1-1/2” of closed cell spray foam under it. and insulate the bottom skirt board as well. Any questions hit me up.
The wire will not need to be secured to the foam. We did tie wire the wire mesh sheets together so they don’t move around. Don’t use the rolled mesh use the 5x10!sheets. The roll stuff will pop up all over the place. Real pain. 👍👍
In the apartment portion of a building, I get going wall to wall with the tubing. But would you consider leaving 2-3 feet of the floor along the walls unheated since shelves and work benches will typically be along the walls?
I would not do that because the tubing puts out so many BTU’s per foot and it takes 1 square foot of tubing per 1 square foot of space to heat a concrete slab so you would not have the proper BTU’s to heat the space. Hope that makes sence buddy. 👍
I'm not an expert, but if the stuff in your cupboards is cooler than the rest of the room, I'd be worried about condensation leading to mildew and mould. Unless it's a food storage space that is meant to be kept cooler and everything is in waterproof containers, I wouldn't want to risk it.
Love this video segment! My application is simple, a 12' x 12' greenhouse. I'd like to tie-down my runs every 6" beneath the concrete. Is this advisable or is 12" the minimum? Thank you
Just resistance to flow or head pressure. Tubing all the same length it will have the same head pressure/ resistance to flow and water will travel the same down all the tubing. Keeping things balanced without flow control manifolds. 👍
How do you feel about the tankless water heaters? Live in Alaska and about to do this job but leaning towards those tankless ones. But gonna be doing this one on a 2 story home which will be just for the top floor with a garage on bottom. Is it better to install from first floor ceiling or just I just lay it on the second floor? (New build so nothing in it yet)
I would instal from under the floor buddy or lay the tubing in before the plywood goes down. I’ll send you a video of a house I did that way. I have used a couple tankless for houses but a 50 gallon tank water heater is better. HTP Phoenix Light Duty is a real good unit and reasonably priced. The tank will last way longer then the tankless and can handle thge cold start ups that will hapen better and it can be cleaned out easy from setement in the water. I would definetly put the heat in the concrete also. That will be the best thing you could do for the house.
I've seen a product advertised here in Australia that is a structural plywood floor sheeting with the channels pre-cut for the tubing, and then sheeted with aluminium so the heat is dispersed evenly and you just put your usual floor covering over the top. I haven't tried it myself, but it looks like something to think about for hydronic heating upstairs. They promote using it with solar HW, but I guess that part's not so useful in Alaska in winter.
@@bondobuilt386 Thanks for the reply, do you not splice because you are afraid of of the concrete being corrosive and causing deterioration to the splice, hence a future leak?
Hi Bondo, More questions!! We've JUST built a 32x56x12 and getting ready for concrete. We have our 1/2" pex ready to put down. Q#1 what size water heater should we use? Q#2 Should we use anti freeze or just water? If anti freeze what kind? Q#3 We're using propane as our fuel. We live in Ohio. Your thoughts on propane/cost please.. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!
HTP Phoenix light Duty 50 gallon is a great propane water heater for radiant heat. No antifreeze is needed. Insulate the crap out of everything and it will not cost that much to heat with propane.
Great video. I'm learning a lot for my new project. Can you please explain what you have under the wire mesh? I believe you spray foamed. What did you do under the foam? Did you level the pad, add sand and then pack, then spray foam, wire mesh, then radiant heat tubing? Thank you!
Taco 009 huh? Let’s see your pump curve to verify it. Let’s see your pressure drop of tubing vs pump curve.. come on man. Best to lay tubing closer together at walls as that’s where your heat load is. Got a load calc for pipe size and spacing?
Ive done at least 60 of these so no sense in me showing pump curves and pressure drop. It just plain works. This is not rocket science just keep the loops real close to the same length at 500' or less and the headers can be cheap copper headers. No need for expensive ones with fancy balancing valves because water will flow even if tubing is the same length. Its just simple thermodynamics.
Your talking “simple thermodynamics” but no pump curves or pressure drop? Ha! What do you think thermodynamics design is about? You’re just guessing. All your buildings are the same load or close. Do this on different design and see what trouble you get into. Not do your customers any favors but guessing and running more tubing or running larger pumps than needed. That’s a waste of energy, which is money down the drain.
Exile1213 I’m not guessing about the heat load. Running the tubing at 1 foot tubing per square foot of building space will give you different heat output for different size buildings. As far as putting extra tubing by the outside that is counter productive. Keep the extra heat in the middle for a heat sink in a concrete floor. Why put it close to where you have a better chance of loosing it to the outside. These concrete slabs I do perform excellent and I have done a bunch. There simple and they just plain work. And I live in central New York where it gets real cold. There is more than one way to do this but mine is cheap and simple. That little 009 will push more water then you think. My buddies shop has 4 500’ foot loops on one 009 pump. We been running it for 4 years and we’re in his shop with a T-shirt on when it’s 0 degrees out. Tubing is 1 foot on center just like many others I have done just chugging along and working beautifully. Thanks for the dialog if I have time I’ll look up the chart on that pump. I did it before and realized it will do some big buildings but obviously it does have a limit. Thanks again for the comments 👍👍
300' is the maximum length of run for 1/2 pex, plus or minus 5%, after that your friction lose becomes to great. 3/4, would be acceptable for 500'. Yes, a larger circ. that is capable of pumping great head will work, but you have diminished heat after 300' and the cost of watts is driven up with larger circ. Unless an ECM is used. Just wonder what most of these buildings use for heat source??
I am currently planning a 32 x 48 Pole Barn and this was a huge help. Thank you.
Awesome glad the video was helpful
Great job on this video, easy to understand and makes me feel confident in taking this on Thank you
Thank you...
Very clear and easy to follow
Simple and efficient
Thanks man!
I’ve learned a lot from your videos
We followed your example today. Pouring tomorrow:)
Thank you very much for us DIY guys!
Im a DIY guy myself. 👍👍😊
@@bondobuilt386 I’m originally for Lake George Ny and moved our trucking company to Nashville Tn. In the process now of finishing my 30x50 truck shop and will be putting in floor heat. (They don’t fo that here) despite talking to 20 concrete contractors... I’ll do it my damn self.
@@bctw9004 Exactly its a piece of cake just follow my videos buddy. 👊👍
Very cool. Thanks for the education. Simple is good.
Super simple, I'm going to use it in a dome home. It's the best way to heat.
Do you have a video showing the pump and heater hookups?
Any concerns for the wire tie to eventually rub through the side wall of pipes? Is there enough movement from heating / expansion and cooling/ contraction to cut the pipe from Wire vs a plastic wire tie? 15:20
Did you put rebar over the pex before you poured?
Hello. We plan on using fiberglass rebar on our shop pour.
Question.....do we first put down plastic,then blue insulation, then tubing,then suspend our rebar so its in the middle of the slab?
And if so, how can you attach the pex to the blue sheet insulation?
Thanks for anyones help in this matter and thanks for these great vids!
All set saw my answer on other of your videos. Thanks
Awesome I 👍😊
GREAT HELP REALLY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE VIDEO GOD BLESS
thank you for this video! I have a question: if you wanted multiple rooms on this floor, would you do lay the tubing the same way, or leave gaps for under where the partition walls would be?
Thank upi so much for that information. I do have other questions on what if your doing a home with different rooms? how do i figure out how far from the boiler I can put manifold ? How far am can I be from manifold to boiler? And if I want to run them on different thermostats?
Glad you liked the video. You can put the manifold as far as you want from the boiler just run 1” pex or copper from boiler too the manifold. If you want different zones controled by different thermostats you nan use zone valves or separate pumps. many ways to do this. 👍😊
How to study building in a year when I couldn't enrol to study building. I really appreciate you and the other teachers who have posted these sorts of vids - thank you!
I'm curious - if you wanted to create a warmer patch in your concrete, under the dog bed or whatever, how would you do that?
Just add extra tubing in that area. Maybe space it out at 4 to 6 inches instead of 12".
Can you just use plastic zip tie because tubes will stay when pouring concrete
What Manifold are you using?
Great video. Its all water flow at the same flow rate. how you install you pipe is in effect the manifold .
They just hook up to a copper pipe with T branches off it. It is a cheap manifold with no controls. you can buy them at Supply House. online. Thanks Patrick.
Have ever had a problem with the Slab Mesh or the Ties rusting over the years after installation, & eventually damaging the PEX tubing ???
No never and we have floors 14 years old with tubing and mesh.
great video thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. so with mesh and radiant heating how thick do you poor your slab and no rebar is needed to reinforce the slab to prevent it from cracking?
Bondo, great video as always. Any video on the ground prep up to and including the foam? Thx.
Thanks. I cant find one video from start to finish. I can make one though. 👍
Since you're stressing the pump with too long of runs, how often do you replace the pump?
Navien NP-A2 150k Residential heater. They also have a 180k and 199. then you get into boilers systems. Is there a BTU/SF ratio to go by here?
A typical output of a residential hydronic radiant heating system is within
Is foam/insulation needed below the pex tubing?
yes for sure
Very well presented and no bs straight forward. I am going to attempt doing a 2100sf third level (tier) house with this then doing 2100sf mid level off of same heater. Would separate 4 loop units work?
Daryl I would need more info to answer that one. I have run loops up to 500 feet and they work awesome. Well insulated under slab and the structure as well. Also what is the heater?
can you drive concrete buggy over that pex without damaging it ??
Hi I like your method of installation nice and simple I'm looking to do a radiant floor heating system my floor is 20x30 my floor is spec for 4 inch thick concrete should I bump it up to 6 inch and what was the name of the pump that you listed in this video? Please if you don't mind .
Hi what is the floor for? house garage or pole shed?
I'm doing a workshop in my back yard I'm doing a red iron steel building from general steel I'm doing 2 inch foam under the slab with 30 inch frost wall (required by my county ) per code
@@sammason2464 I would go 5" to 5-1/2" thick on the floor. The pump I referred to was the Taco 009. Sounds like a good project. 👍
Thanks for the reply you really provide good information. I wish you guys were in my area . How much would my job cost in your area ?
Love your videos. I'm actuall about to pour a 30 x 40 pole building. I'm doing the radiant tubing and a trench drain. I notice you don't fully encapsulate the trench drain in concrete, but all the trench drain systems I'm looking at call for concrete to go underneath the trench drain material. Is this a new thing, of just the brand on trench drain?
Also - on this small greenhouse project, what type of pump would you pair up with a water heater?
Do you have a foundation or did you use a post and beam construction?
This build was post and beam but I did not build it. Just did the floor and radiant.
Do you place blocks under the wire mess to suspend the pex midway in the slab instead of at the bottom of the slab?
No the pex stays on the bottom. We don’t pull it up into the slab.
Did you cut relief lines in the slab?
Yes we did.
Bondo, Can you give me the specs on the pump you are talking about? Taco 009?
I really like your videos and the practical experience you bring to the application of this technology. I am an engineer and have started studying radiant slab heating recently. I have reviewed pump curves, made transient heat models for the slab, developed flow versus head loss estimates for pex circuits etc etc....but I find your experience to be even more valuable. Example is 300 foot versus 400 foot 1/2" pex loops that you talk about. At the typical radiant loop flow rate of 1 gpm this requires 5.5 versus 7.5 psi of pressure. The Taco 009 pump can deliver this pressure out to as much as 8 gpm flow so that is 8 loops. For more loops than that use more, or a bigger pump. Or live with reduced flow.
I am designing my 3000 sq foot floor currently. Can you tell me what I should expect the cost of 3" of closed cell spray foam to be ? If the cost is significantly more than rigid XPS poly, would you still go with spray ??
Bret you are spot on for the tubing. We run up to 500’ loops all the time and thgey perform awesome. It makes the system so much simpler. Just want to keep the tubing the same length. I have debated this multiple times but like you said nothing better then pratical experience. 👍 I find that 2” of board foam or 1-1/2” of spray foam are about the same cost consitering my time to put it down. I think 3” is overkill. especially after you get 4 feet in from the exterior walls. You could pray it thicker near the perimeter 4 feet. Just deepen the sub grade out there a little. That would be a cost effective way to increase the insulation.
Regards
Bondo
What’s your formula you use to figure out the size loops you need to do so you don’t end up with a off length loop
What is the calculation for rolls of tube for size of floor? I am building a 40x90. I understand it is 1 to 1 ft to sqft now much do you allow for the corners and connections
I would do 7 - 500' loops bud. Divide the building in 7 equal pieces and that will help the layout.
What size of pump you used for that building?
Taco 009 pump.
Hi, I have seen on other radiant floor jobs they have said the tubing has measurements on it. Is this true on 1000 foot rolls? If not how do you measure out the tubing?Thanks
Yes but my old eyes are getting hard to read it I noticed yesterday. LOL
Do you have some one in my area that can put this in my 30 X 40 pole building before I pour?
Joseph where do you live buddy?
Delavan Wisconsin
@@josephscheurell8195 I dont know anybody in that area but I think you could do it with my videos. Do 3 loops of 1/2” oxegen barrior pex at 400’ each loop. Make sure you have 2” of polystyrene insulation or 1-1/2” of closed cell spray foam under it. and insulate the bottom skirt board as well. Any questions hit me up.
Question
960 square, so 2 480' loops. Do I get 2 TACCO 009's or 1?
How did you secure the wire mesh to the foam? I will be using rigid foam if that matters. Thanks
The wire will not need to be secured to the foam. We did tie wire the wire mesh sheets together so they don’t move around. Don’t use the rolled mesh use the 5x10!sheets. The roll stuff will pop up all over the place. Real pain. 👍👍
Ahh, I was thinking the rolled wire. Makes sense. Thanks. I have many more of your videos to watch. Keep them coming.
@@D-Allen will do. It’s winter here but soon as the snow melts I’ll be back at it bud. 👍👍
In the apartment portion of a building, I get going wall to wall with the tubing. But would you consider leaving 2-3 feet of the floor along the walls unheated since shelves and work benches will typically be along the walls?
I would not do that because the tubing puts out so many BTU’s per foot and it takes 1 square foot of tubing per 1 square foot of space to heat a concrete slab so you would not have the proper BTU’s to heat the space. Hope that makes sence buddy. 👍
I'm not an expert, but if the stuff in your cupboards is cooler than the rest of the room, I'd be worried about condensation leading to mildew and mould. Unless it's a food storage space that is meant to be kept cooler and everything is in waterproof containers, I wouldn't want to risk it.
Love this video segment! My application is simple, a 12' x 12' greenhouse. I'd like to tie-down my runs every 6" beneath the concrete. Is this advisable or is 12" the minimum? Thank you
Hi Bondo, I know you're using oxygen barrier pex, 1000' rolls but is it 1/2" ID? THANKS!!!
It is 1/2" pex
Hey, which law of thermodynamics was that Bondo?
Just resistance to flow or head pressure. Tubing all the same length it will have the same head pressure/ resistance to flow and water will travel the same down all the tubing. Keeping things balanced without flow control manifolds. 👍
How do you saw cut your joints after pour without hitting the pex?also will the concrete not settle on the spray foam?
We only cut it about 1/2" deep and no that foam is rock solid.
How do you feel about the tankless water heaters? Live in Alaska and about to do this job but leaning towards those tankless ones. But gonna be doing this one on a 2 story home which will be just for the top floor with a garage on bottom. Is it better to install from first floor ceiling or just I just lay it on the second floor? (New build so nothing in it yet)
I would instal from under the floor buddy or lay the tubing in before the plywood goes down. I’ll send you a video of a house I did that way. I have used a couple tankless for houses but a 50 gallon tank water heater is better. HTP Phoenix Light Duty is a real good unit and reasonably priced. The tank will last way longer then the tankless and can handle thge cold start ups that will hapen better and it can be cleaned out easy from setement in the water. I would definetly put the heat in the concrete also. That will be the best thing you could do for the house.
ua-cam.com/video/pfx-2glUq3A/v-deo.html
I've seen a product advertised here in Australia that is a structural plywood floor sheeting with the channels pre-cut for the tubing, and then sheeted with aluminium so the heat is dispersed evenly and you just put your usual floor covering over the top. I haven't tried it myself, but it looks like something to think about for hydronic heating upstairs. They promote using it with solar HW, but I guess that part's not so useful in Alaska in winter.
@@tealkerberus748 I have seen that.
Great videos! Thanks for sharing them. Do you ever splice or is that a no no??
Thanks 👍😊 I don't splice under concrete but we will splice in floor joist applications. Thats how we use up extra tubing. 👍
@@bondobuilt386 Thanks for the reply, do you not splice because you are afraid of of the concrete being corrosive and causing deterioration to the splice, hence a future leak?
@@traderman4378 no I think it would work fine I just hate burying a splice. I seen a tube damaged and then spliced but I avoid it bud. 👍
Hi Bondo,
More questions!! We've JUST built a 32x56x12 and getting ready for concrete. We have our 1/2" pex ready to put down.
Q#1 what size water heater should we use?
Q#2 Should we use anti freeze or just water? If anti freeze what kind?
Q#3 We're using propane as our fuel. We live in Ohio. Your thoughts on propane/cost please..
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!
HTP Phoenix light Duty 50 gallon is a great propane water heater for radiant heat.
No antifreeze is needed.
Insulate the crap out of everything and it will not cost that much to heat with propane.
Great video. I'm learning a lot for my new project. Can you please explain what you have under the wire mesh? I believe you spray foamed. What did you do under the foam? Did you level the pad, add sand and then pack, then spray foam, wire mesh, then radiant heat tubing? Thank you!
Hi we have well compacted fine gravel and they spray foamed 2" of foam to that then we have wire mesh then the tubing is tied to the wire mesh.
Ron.... how many subs back in May 2020?
Jim I reached 1000 in November 2020 if I recall buddy. 😊
@@bondobuilt386 so... you’ve grown ten times in less than 6 months. I wish my savings could match that! LOL
@@jimanderson4495 don't we all!
What size of tubing you used
1/2" Oxygen barrior tubing.
Taco 009 huh? Let’s see your pump curve to verify it. Let’s see your pressure drop of tubing vs pump curve.. come on man. Best to lay tubing closer together at walls as that’s where your heat load is. Got a load calc for pipe size and spacing?
Ive done at least 60 of these so no sense in me showing pump curves and pressure drop. It just plain works. This is not rocket science just keep the loops real close to the same length at 500' or less and the headers can be cheap copper headers. No need for expensive ones with fancy balancing valves because water will flow even if tubing is the same length. Its just simple thermodynamics.
Your talking “simple thermodynamics” but no pump curves or pressure drop? Ha! What do you think thermodynamics design is about? You’re just guessing. All your buildings are the same load or close. Do this on different design and see what trouble you get into. Not do your customers any favors but guessing and running more tubing or running larger pumps than needed. That’s a waste of energy, which is money down the drain.
Exile1213 I’m not guessing about the heat load. Running the tubing at 1 foot tubing per square foot of building space will give you different heat output for different size buildings. As far as putting extra tubing by the outside that is counter productive. Keep the extra heat in the middle for a heat sink in a concrete floor. Why put it close to where you have a better chance of loosing it to the outside. These concrete slabs I do perform excellent and I have done a bunch. There simple and they just plain work. And I live in central New York where it gets real cold. There is more than one way to do this but mine is cheap and simple. That little 009 will push more water then you think. My buddies shop has 4 500’ foot loops on one 009 pump. We been running it for 4 years and we’re in his shop with a T-shirt on when it’s 0 degrees out. Tubing is 1 foot on center just like many others I have done just chugging along and working beautifully.
Thanks for the dialog if I have time I’ll look up the chart on that pump. I did it before and realized it will do some big buildings but obviously it does have a limit.
Thanks again for the comments 👍👍
@@bondobuilt386 You are an inspiration! Fuck the haters. I got a heat load they can calculate if they can open wide enough. Keep up the good work!
300' is the maximum length of run for 1/2 pex, plus or minus 5%, after that your friction lose becomes to great. 3/4, would be acceptable for 500'. Yes, a larger circ. that is capable of pumping great head will work, but you have diminished heat after 300' and the cost of watts is driven up with larger circ. Unless an ECM is used. Just wonder what most of these buildings use for heat source??
Ok
👍