Plug and Play Radiant Floor Heating System - BEST ON THE MARKET
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2020
- To learn more about Warmboard visit - bit.ly/34V69oD
Go follow Warmboard on IG - / warmboard
Huge thanks to Steve Baczek - www.stevenbaczekarchitect.com/...
Matt is out in New England visiting Steve at his Ranch Remodel project! Steve is installing Warmboard, a radiant floor heating system.The client particularly wanted warm floors all winter and there is no better system for such a request. The panels Warmboard uses are faced entirely with aluminum which is highly conductive increasing the effectiveness of the circulating warm water. Warmboard is as close to plug-n-play as any radiant system gets. They will design a system that works perfectly for your project, and send you all the necessary documents and tools needed for a smooth installation. In this project, Steve used the R panels, specifically for remodel work, but they also have structural panels perfect for new construction. Check out the video for more information on Warmboard, as well as their website. Link below.
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MUY buena calidad, el texto imagenes. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO Un manuel muy completo y trabajado. Resulta muy práctico. Para principiantes y profesionales. Lo recomiendo
As someone that has worked in IT all their lives, I really appreciate the "cable management" from that plumber *insert heart eyes emoji*
if that was electric using solar it would cost a fraction to install and run
😍
You should name the guys that do great work. That would encourage others to step it up.
Their business card was hanging on the manifold downstairs in the vid. Pretty slick of them. Stark & Cronk Plumbing and Heating
Lived in Korea for several years. Loved the heated floors. When I build my home, I will have heated floors. Doesn't matter that I live in Texas.. LOL
I'm from Korea. So wish radiant heating is readily available here as it is over there.
What do you use for cooling?
@@edgardelgado9937 depends on the size of the house, but in my high efficiency officetel it's a split unit HVAC
@@edgardelgado9937 of course aircon.
I live near Waco and plan on going radiant. Hopefully it works out since I’ll just have a sealed slab.
Electrician: "wire management is hard"
Plumber: "hold my beer"
If only all boiler systems were set up with this level of documentation and organization. Very cool system.
The Warmboard system is pure ingenuity in design and engineering. Choosing this system was a wise decision by the home owners. It's money well spent and money saved each month. Their home will feel comfortable 365 days a year. I was absolutely blown away by the IMPECCABLE craftsmanship of the plumbing contractor on this installation! The meticulous, clear labeling, of each and every aspect of this Warmboard system was impressive and should be the standard for all mechanical contractors....plumbing, electrical, etc.
Outstanding video, thanks for sharing! ~Christy~
Hello Christy!!! Thank you for the kind words and thank you very much for joining us
Doesn't matter what trade, when professionals take care and pride their work you really know it. Best advertisement for the plumber, quality is an attitude!
Very much agree - thank you
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 Indeed so.
As a plumbing contractor, this looks like a fine installation,if it looks nice it usually works nice!
I really appreciate the effort, engineering, and discipline it takes to design and install this system. Buuuuut, I'm just fine wearing some warm moccasins in the winter.
I used warmboard on my remodel here in Alaska and found it totally worth the cost and effort. Getting up in the morning to warm floors is epic.
What part of AK? I'm in Southeast (Ketchikan). Are you using an oil furnace to heat the water like this setup? I want radiant heating but the more I look into it the more I think I may opt for and air-to-water heat pump. Temps are pretty mild this far south though.
@@MaryRoseGrace I am in Muldoon and on Natural gas. I have a Lochinvar knight furnace which heats my warmboard to 112, my hot water baseboard (that I haven't converted yet) to 180, and my sidearm water heater to 120.
You should check out Cold-Climate Housing Research Center (CCHRC) out of UAF and what they know of heat pumps. They work up here despite the naysayers.
Very similar to the system in my house in Germany. Super efficient. We had one 5000L oil tank that we filled on average once every 3 years.
I built my house with Warmboard 6 years ago and LOVE it. So comfortable. Expensive but worth it.
Long Live Our Buildings
I was on a job with radiant heat flooring. The manifold for second floor were in access panel in bedroom closet. Cuts down on the loop maximums. But Steve's job is Awesome
Each builder/architect has their own personal preferences, but we typically recommend putting manifolds in closets for the shorter loop lengths and gains in efficiency.
I am building a mobile home in a school bus, and no "vanlife floor heating" video quite explained floor heating as easily as you guys did, thank you.
I live on the north shore of Massachusetts in a house built in 1886.. We used to have a forced hot air system that was likely installed during the Eisenhower administration.. In 2013, we replaced all of our first floor heating (which was four hot air registers) with a radiant system.. AND added Runtle radiators to our second floor where we only previously had two hot air registers for the entire floor!... When heating season comes, the floor is at a nice 85 degrees.. we can set the thermostat (at chest level) to 65 and be very comfortable. Due to other inefficiencies in the house, we don't save a lot on gas but we're a hell of a lot more comfortable. The Plumber that installed my system was a 19 year old apprentice.. his work was/is impeccable.. He's now my go to plumber.. Trade schools doing good work. (BTW. The guy doing my floor (White Oak also) did hit a pipe.. They just opened a port hole to the basement where the splice was installed so it could be inspected. 7 years later and no issues)
Warmboard is terrific and worth the money, but I do have two caveats. One, it’s more expensive than other similar products on the market. Google the other brands and you’ll save 30-60%, but I will still admit that Warmboard is the top quality of the group. Once installed, I don’t think you will notice much difference. And two, when deciding against concrete slab, remember, with a slab you can fire the boiler for one to two hours a day and keep the living space warm and at a constant temp, +/- 2 degrees. While Warmboard is a lot quicker in response, it doesn’t hold the heat as well as a thermal slab. So you will fire your boiler a lot more often every day. More gas use, higher operating costs. But some people think the quicker response is worth it. I don’t really. It’s a a feature, but remember, most people live in their homes 365 days per year. I think it’s easier and less expensive overall for the flooring to stay at a constant temperature, and the house to keep living space at a constant temp. It’s just better. I have a 150 year old Victorian in San Francisco which is a great test case. Cold wet winters and very chilly summers here in SF. You gotta run heat most of the year if you want your home above 60 degrees. Three stories over a finished basement. The main floor is Warmboard remodeled, the top two floors are staple up, and the basement is a 2500 concrete slab. Ok? Great test case. And no, there are never any leaks. The basement slab is by far the most comfy portion in the building. Boiler runs two hours a day max during the cold of winter, and once a day the rest of the year. The staple up floors run 12-18 or even more hours per day to stay warm. The Warmboard floor runs about 12 hours a day to stay warm, and when the system is off at night, it really cools down! Warmboard just doesn’t hold heat. But it heats right up in about 20-30 minutes in the morning. Easy. The floors creak a little on the staple up. They do not creak at all during heat-up on Warmboard because the builder used glue and nails. Always use glue under engineered floors for radiant. The basement used glue. We loved the parquet floors in the building so we did staple up, and the old oak on those floors has shrunk a bit, because you have to keep the water tempers higher on staple up, and that’s not good for old wood flooring, but it’s okay. The concrete, we can keep the water temps low, like around 100 degrees. Warmboard, you keep the water temp higher, like 115-125, but still pretty low. Staple up, I’ve had to keep the water at 135, which is high, but that’s what it takes to heat the place. So at the end of the day, if you have the ability to pour a concrete in slab tubing, do it. Forget about the wood floors being soft and bouncy. On Warmboard, it’s so stiff there is zero difference between the feel of the wood vs the concrete slab. Nobody can tell the difference, it’s that small. Concrete slab will pay for itself in five years with cheaper gas costs. Warmboard is great for the rest. Staple up is honestly the worst performing, but it’s still fantastic vs forced air. You install staple-up for one one reason, if you can’t afford to replace your existing floor or there is a reason not to replace the existing floor, like for historical reasons. I’ve lived with radiant heat for 30 years, and it solved my allergies. True, once you go radiant you will never go back to forced air heat. They oughta outlaw forced air. Inefficient, horrible for your lungs, dusty houses, nobody every changes the filters, just UGH. If there was money for a scientific study, I’d wager that thousands of people die every year from issues related to breathing in stale toxic air from forced air systems. In Europe, forced air is very rare, and the mortality rate from lung and allergy issues is lower. Hard to be specific if this is the cause, but that’s my opinon.
Thanks for sharing this! We just bought a home in Pacifica and I’d love to ditch the gas furnace for radiant floor heat. Still doing research encouraging to hear about your application.
I don’t like that they are using OSB with VoCs
That’s how a Union plumbers finished product looks in a commercial setting. You don’t see that caliber work in many residential homes. Very nice to see someone take pride in a nice finished product.
Matt love your video, we have in floor heating in our basement in Alberta Canada, where it can get to -40c for up to 2 weeks without a break. It is truly a game changer for anyone that has ever questioned the cost don’t. We use a forced air furnace for upstairs we have a 3800 sq/ft bungalow and with just 4 loops in the basement slab it is toasty warm in the winter months. I don’t think we would ever own another home without it. Every other house we go into they are freezing in the basement not us. Love the idea for upstairs especially on a pre existing sub floor. I’d be concerned if I had a gas failure though as my frost line is 6-8 feet below grade so it don’t take long for above grade piping to freeze 🥶. Seen it too often where people’s pipes freeze and slip open.
Only been in one house using this system - upper New Jersey - actual blizzard happening outside, and the house was MASSIVE (10k + sq ft). What can I say - love at first feel! “Cozy” is a hard word to use in a house that size with all travertine floors, marble columns, big windows, etc but this house was definitely cozy warm.
This kind of stuff is so FABULOUSLY easy to fit. I did our whole house myself in England with Speedfit, which is similar: just send the houseplans in, get the spec with loop calculations back, lay the boards, unroll the pipe into the grooves and push fit into the manifolds, label it up, fill it and turn on. It's the simplest plumbing in the world, the only bit of special kit I needed was a pressure filler/tester. Just elegant. It had foam boards under though, designed to lay an interlocked floating floor over it, not nailed down. Floating is common here.
Did it raise your floor height much?
Warmboard was a huge hit with me. I completed a 3000 sqft remodel in MO powered by a geothermal heat pump with ceramic tile floors. Radiant floor heat is amazing. The switch from forced air to radiant along with the geothermal energy source dropped our electrical bill by 50%.
So glad to hear it! Thanks for choosing us.
If you don't mind me asking what did it end up costing. We're building soon and trying to get an idea vs forced hot air
@@ThinBlueLineVideos WarmBoard panels, PEX-al-PEX tubing, and manifolds were around $8.50 per sqft shipped in 2018. TACO zone controllers and cheap thermostats were utilized for control.
@@ThinBlueLineVideos get in touch with WarmBoard directly and I’m sure they will give you a ballpark estimate for new construction costs with the more expensive subfloor 4’x8’ panel.
@@ThinBlueLineVideos Be aware, Warmboard is not a unique product, there are 4 or 5 similar products, at least when we built our house 6 years ago. Search around, speak w/your hydronic system professional, he/she will likely have a preferred brand.
We personally chose Thermaboard. The material itself was about 25% less than Warmboard and another brand I forget now. We chose it because it used smaller 3/8” pex much closer spaced than WB and similar 1/2” pex boards. The benefits being more uniform heat and lower water temps, important if you’re using under wood floors. While the floor sheathing is less $ and a bit lower profile, mitigating need to trim door bottoms of remodel, the labor and material costs for larger manifolds, more tubing and more valves makes it no $$ savings at all. I’m sure we would’ve been happy w/Warmboard or others but have zero regrets w/choice we made. Our floors are as flat as the day they were sanded👍
Have the thicker structural 1 1/4" think warmboard for over 12 years in 40% of my home with both hardwood & tile finished above. Love it! Super heat transfer & super even. All runs do not have to be "home runs" back to boiler room. I have a larger room with 4 or 5 circuits "300' ft each" run a larger size pipe from boiler room to a manifold in a closet near the big room. Each mini-circuit can be adjusted at the manifold to even out slightly smaller or longer runs connected in the main circuit.
This was client desire
Thank you Steve and Matt. I enjoy seeing how people build in other areas of the Country.
Very welcome!!
Having done a teeny 4-zone install, this is amazing. Kudos to the plumbers!
In UK underfloor heating is the most desirable system for domestic situations. Most of the extensions I have designed in the last 10 years have had UFH. It is only marginally more expensive than a radiator system but pays for itself in energy saving.
A normal radiator or forced air heating works by air moving at ceiling level until it hits a wall where it cools and then drops to floor level. That means that the temperature at ceiling level is a few degrees above that at floor level and sitting around in the house we all notice how cold our feet are first so we raise the temperature of the radiator or hot air, which means that we are putting in excess heat just to stay comfortable. UFH provides a comfortable temperature at the input point - i.e the floor. That heat then rises to ceiling level. In an UFH room the temperature of the air is about the same from the floor to the ceiling so overall less heat is put into the room.
Care must be taken when installing the thermostats and circuits as I had the situation where the contractor linked the internal dining room 'stat to the conservatory and vice versa. It took 6 months of investigations by the plumber to then check what I said seemed to be the issue. A simple reconnection at the valves and the client was happy!
On this scheme I noted that 3 bedrooms were in zone 5 controlled off one thermostat. I would question that in that, all the bedrooms had different heat loads by virtue of the orientation and number of external walls. The middle room was the best insulated and the RHS one the worst. A single stat in one room will give a false heat supply to the other two.
Also, to be totally effective the floor must be well insulated with at least 100mm of PU foam board.
Lastly, I put UFH in the 1st floor en-suite shower to the master bedroom on one job, much to the eternal gratitude of my client!
Matt, I can't wait to hear about those ceilings, man! I need that curved recessing effect in my dream house!
Clearly a plumber with passion in his craft!
Yes!!! Agreed - love these guys
We installed a Warmboard heating system in our new construction. Best decision ever. Living in a radiant heated home means never really thinking about heating. You don’t hear air flow. It’s just comfortable. I must say though, our plumbers weren’t nearly as neat and tidy as this house. Probably due to inexperience. It works and works well. Not as good looking though.
Neat and tidy has to do with laziness, not inexperience. What did you use for air conditioning, and did you tailor the ductwork for A/C differently than the typical supply/cold air return layout? During the heating season is there still airflow to exchange / filter?
So it completely replaces the forced air system?
@@KiiKiiCR Yes, that's correct. We don't have a forced air furnace.
Wow! I used WarmBoard 15 years ago when we retrofitted/rebuilt an existing century house. Sure wish they would've had this remodel system available back then! BTW, most impressed w/the 'heart' of the system - Thanks ! Great work Steve!!
Hey man!! Thank you, always a pleasure to share...... Long Live Our Buildings
Every circulation pump should have a shut off valve immediately next to both ends of the pump. This makes it much easier to change out bad circulation pumps. This helps eliminates air getting into the closed loop systems while replacing the circulation pumps. It also lessons the loss of glycol when replacing pumps.
I second that.
I third
The plumber installing won't be changing those pumps out ;)
amazing job - this is the future of heating (and hopefully cooling)
Heated floors are amazing I live in Germany and the house is all masonry and it can be heated from floor heating. Having heated kitchen and bathroom floors are amazing waking up early in the morning.
Where i live i do not need such a system but as beautiful as that plumbing is, i would put that in my basement to show my buddies!
Thank you for finally doing a full video on this product. I plan on doing this for our icf home.
You're welcome
If interested, there's a few more videos on the Build Show site showing more details of this project. Take a look. Steve does a great job of covering multiple aspects of the install.
@@Warmboard can we have your contact info, please?
Warmboard has come along way since i last looked at it.
Steve, huge congratz on the weight loss, keep up the good work.
Hey man!! Thank you very much, down 40 and going......
That plumbing is a work of art!!!!
Plumbers with a passion.........
Wow Steve & Matt,
What a sweet job! Oh man, I would warm board in the master bath floors.
Cheers,
Eric
Excellent!
Incredible and awesome amen. I'm designing a mini version for my formerly off grid RV. Very nice video! Definitely shows that it can work. Thanks...
Awesome stuff Matt! 😃👍🏻👊🏻 .... Those plumbers did a sweet job! 😍👌🏻
Yeah they did....
- Is that a quartersawn 5" white oak? Quartersawn or not, a year after install it's gonna have gaps everywhere the width of a quarter. The homeowner is gonna lose their mind over the gaping.
- waterbased glue? If it's not ... the house will stink like glue forever.
- What finish will you use? radiant heat will cook out finish fumes. Waterbase finish tends to stretch with board movement at the seams and go white. In the wood floor industry it's called "white line syndrome".
Hardwood floor company owner operator 15 years. Love your channel Matt. Be glad you're not the architect or floor company on this project.
Oh no, boy are you going here from Mr Architect.
it's not a flooring episode
What a well laid out system! I dont know how much I like the home run design though. I have seen radiant floor systems where they'll run an insulated main PEX 3/4" or 1" supply line right next to each radiant floor zone, and put the control manifold in the wall of a near by closet behind a small access door. That way you're not losing quite as much energy as running all the 1/2" loops back to the boiler room along the ceiling.
Devin H. It depends on your property as to whether it's worthwhile doing so. In many cases "waste" heat is not in fact wasted, if it's escaping into heated space it still serves a purpose. This is why radiator lines are rarely insulated, unless they are run under the floor in a void or perhaps in an unheated attic. Remote manifolds do make sense in sprawling properties though to save long pipe runs eating up much of the permitted pipe length just to get to and from the room you are trying to heat. They may also serve to maintain sensible temperatures in hallways etc- if too many flow and return pipes to various rooms are laid along a corridor, that corridor can become uncomfortably warm given the "density" of pipework beneath the floor, and the fact they can't be switched off without affecting the temp in the room those pipes serve.
BEAUTIFUL work by the various trades. I love love love seeing that. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for joining us
I have a small 1150' per floor two story that has only two zones, up and down and, its been my first Ive ever had and would not ever live in another place without it. Im in NW Montana
Thank you
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 This gives me hope as mine is in the slab but at the prices of places nowadays up here I could cash in big time but I still would have to have radiant heating and your video here gives me hope if I find a replacement home I can still have the best heat there is!!!
That setup was anything but "Plug and Play"
Was thinking the same thing....this looks like a pain in the ass to install
@@gregorygrimm5540 imagine the hardwood floor guy nails one the pex lines...... goes unnoticed long enough to have water damage the hardwood floors.... now try and find where the nail is.... rip up all the hardwood floors....
Last time I checked Warmboard was over $110 per 4x8 sheet. That was a least 10 years ago. I can’t imagine what it costs now.
Electric floor heating is the way to go
@@gregorygrimm5540 Ha ha, but it will be ton easier to repair that than if floor heating was done inside of concrete (best imho since concrete retains that heat for so long even if it does not conduct it as well). However the good thing with concrete heated floor is that will unlikely ever need to be repaired. Have seen some that were over half century old and ran fine.
I don't even own a home yet and this gets me excited for the possibilities.
That floor board tapping tool looks legit.
I am entering my third winter season for my new construction home in the northeast USA with an installation identical, except for the boiler, to that in the video. Manifolds and flow valve controllers identical. MIne is a slightly smaller house and a Niven combo boiler for the radiant heat and domestic hot water. I am very pleased with my radiant heat installation. More expensive to install .... yes .... but worth it to me in the stated benefits of a radiant heating system. My boiler is propane fired from a buried tank in the yard (natural gas some day when the street main comes through). My monthly heating bill is also quite acceptable, a benefit of also keeping the thermostats set at 68 degrees F, which is quite comfortable, even on the coldest days. I also did go for higher quality windows and exterior doors, which does complement the heating system.
Well said
Sounds great but how do you cool? I'm in northeast also waiting for first winter in my renovated townhouse.
@@orielsy would think two things. size of the system and as mentioned fuel available.
Solid Oak over Radiant is a no-no as it will buckle & crack. The only approved hardwood flooring over radiant is engineer hardwood flooring.
@@lrc87290 I do have ducts installed for central air conditioning.
I've gotten quotes for Warmboard before and man they're pretty steep for what it is. Yeah you can simplify the installation, but a traditional radiant heat system works just as well. The reason is there's a maximum temperature your floors can hit before it messes up your hardwood floors. You can get uponor aluminum transfer plates for less than Warmboard's system, and I prefer that over Warmboard because the probability of damaging the pex is lower since it usually sits 1" below the bottom of subfloor, so you have about 1 1/2" play when installing hardwood. Also really recommend against using staples on Radiant heated floors. Even though there's glue, staples do tend to come loose over time, and the floor will have a tendency to squeak. Solid white oak isn't for everyone either, gotta have real good collaboration with the mechanical guys to make sure the water and temperature stays below 85. Otherwise the extreme delta will cause the floors to cup and buckle, I've seen this happen a few times due to carelessness or just oversight. Most of our radiant projects, we only use engineered white oak flooring because it's more stable, and it's installed with Cleats instead since they are less likely to pull out during expansion and contraction. Double the amount of Cleats as well. If it's over 4" we glue and cleats.
It's important to remember that the design should be easy to work on for the next person, meaning it's gotta be stupid proof because it's hard to condition homeowners or people that adopt these systems as a new homeowner. Engineered flooring, makes it less likely to screw up down the road if an unknowing homeowner fiddles with the temperature and settings
Agreed on the cost for Warmboard. I got a quote from them and it was really high. I went with Ecowarm instead, which is a nearly-identical product at a far lower price point.
All that, and I would have a laminate or laser etched drawing of zones by that manifold assembly - attached as part of the assembly. You could shrink it 50% and still be good. House sales are notorious for losing build documentation.
What about the cost of insulating under the subfloor to ensure heat transfer into interior space?
There is a competitor to WarmBoard that is more cost friendly and 100% made in America. If you would like some more information let me know.
I also imagine, for what this costs, you could simply better insulate your house and you won't have to worry about your floors getting cold. This system seems a bit excessive and difficult to maintain. Insulation doesn't really cost anything to maintain if done right.
VERY efficient heating system. Nice job guys!
great pipe management really well done nice and neat and easy to figure out what's what
how much a system like that cost?
This is an amazing system. Common complaint against underfloor heating is that it's difficult to extend above ground floor level to make a whole house system. This just knocks that right out of the park. With some modifications I see a potential to apply it to listed buildings without compromising structural integrity of floor beams or listed buildings constraints. So many listed buildings in the UK and Europe linger on the at risk registers because they're either to costly renovate, to heat, or both.
Presumably this system would marry up equally well with ground or air source heat pumps.
I install in floor heating for a living and do many entire houses(second, third floors, basements, outside the house for snow melt). It’s not a problem.
@@dre200112000 Is that in the UK, Europe or elsewhere?
I live in Northern California, this system makes no financial sense here, but if I could afford it, I would install it in a heartbeat. When we stayed in a cabin in Tahoe with radiant, the sheer fact that your feet are warm and the heat is from the bottom and naturally radiates up makes it the absolutely most comfortable way to have heat in the home. You can have the house set to 70 and completely comfortable barefoot in shorts and a shirt in the dead of winter. For anyone that never experienced it, you really have to. It’s a luxury, but boy is it a nice one.
you can get the cost down to 1.5-2$/sq.ft + the ~10k in mechanicals... just not w/ warmboard.
Love watching Matt’s videos but there is NOTHING that he recommends that is affordable for the average homeowner. ALL of his stuff/recommendations are top of the line (aka costly)!.
I put Radiant in my house replaced a 1950'soil hot air system. The heat is great no more winter colds a no more dust blowig around mking people sick it does not matter how much you try and clean old duct work its fullof fifty years of dust and dirt. The system more than paid for itself in less than five years. The health benefit alone is absolutely worth the spend.
How much did you spend for installation???
@@ByrdmanTrucker 1sqm = 100€ with 70mm concrete, foliage, 40mm Styropor/foam, foam-trip for the wall and plastic mounting clips. 2 construction workers included.
Matt, between your channel showing all these different builders from around the nation, we are getting ready to retire and move to KS and have a house built on land and I have picked from several items from your coverage and will have them put in my home... Thanks for posting and creating videos like this.....
Where in Kansas are ya’ headed to? That’s my stompin’ grounds!
Great choice on incorporating principles used by Matt.
Are you go’n go full ICF house and get some insane ACH numbers?!
@@trevorrisley5419 Born and raised till I was 15 years of age, in Hutchinson, and Emporia KS... Yes doing a full ICF build basement and one story. Already have my floorplan picked out, gone to hundreds of model homes here in Vegas over the years.
I love all the New England projects!
Me too!
One beautiful system. Doesn't get any better.
I live in New England and I'm so jealous of this.
Me too
@Michael Sun We did the warmboard on our remodel in 2014 and used red oak in a varied width pattern with our widest boards being 10". We also glued and stapled and with the closed cell spray foam insulation we have are our mixing valve is set to a maximum temperature of 95 degrees and so far we have had no cupping or movement in the flooring. We are located in Connecticut and leave our thermostats at 72 degrees all winter and I can honestly say we couldn't be happier with the system.
Thank you!!! I would expect similar results here
So pleased to hear you've been having a great experience with our system.
Warm floor is awesome. This warm floor system looks incredible.
Two men who interrupt and talk over each other makes learning about _______ difficult.
Matt and Steve - I notice you mentioned that there is baseboard in the basement. A year ago, I added baseboard and insulation to our Connecticut basement and haven't regretted it. Besides a laundry room, the basement is used as an exercise room (Treadmill, Weights, etc.). Can you elaborate on why this basement is heated? I seem to remember from a previous video that the wife has a hobby room in the basement? We've noticed since heating our basement that the cold drafts have been eliminated, and the first floor seems more comfortable. Love what you've done with this house. Looking forward to a final walk-through. Thanks, Bill
Props to that hardwood guy. He has to shoot thousands of staples in that house and not hit a single radiant pipe. All it takes is a second of zoning out.
Note: it's completed and no problems, I agree with you, they did a hell of a job
I don't envy the remodeller who has to change out the floor in 10 years for a different "vibe".
@@blackmanops3749 lol if they have the money, go for it. It will go to other people.
Absolutely, this is a absolutely ridiculous pipe dream.
Why is it a pipe dream? This is really cool!
For retrofits, consider radiant heating in wainscoting. Its nice to have warm floors but heat radiating from the walls is comfortable too.
Radiant in the walls is definitely a good option in some scenarios, particularly if you have existing floors you really want to maintain.
@@Warmboard Heating in the walls and floor is a very, very, very old system indeed.
You won't need me to remind you this system was invented by Sergius Orata around the first century BC.
He was an established builder, businessman and inventor of farmed oysters, and other stuff.
Some say he might have "borrowed" the idea from earlier cultures but frankly who cares ... we'll presume any Patents have run out by now.
The idea, as an idea per se, was in use for many hundreds of years so the concept is well proven.
We'll call it a "hypocaust" for short.
As the earlier comments confirm, producing heat energy can be achieved by several ways and the economics of the fuel used appear to depend on where your home happens to be and the particular pricing policy of said fuel in "a" region. In short there is no real absolute best way of doing the heating.
(Historical Fact Alert:
In Bath (UK) our Roman "visitors" were very quick to exploit the natural spring (now in centre of Bath) which has produced water at a temperature of between 39C and 46C for, at the very least, the past 2000 years.
It provides hot water for the baths themselves and also keeps the entire "baths" warm. The water is said to have curative properties ...if drunk ... the only thing it cured me of was wanting to taste all these natural geothermal springs ... the taste is vile, and that's putting it politely.
The beauty of this vaguely hypocaust type system is that it might be argued the heat is radiant, conductive and convective.
This comes from the "What did the Romans do for us? joke. In fact they gave us quite a bit.
( Completely off topic yet possibly Interesting Fact Alert:
It is suggested the Romans were the first to discover what is now known as N America a thousand years before Columbus arrived ... so, technically N America is but one of the larger Italian Islands ... I knew that would cheer you up.)
This is an extremely unconventional and uncommon installation method.
@@suspicionofdeceit In warm climates like South Texas placing the PEX turbing in wainscoting of one wall in a room is adequate. PEX is unlikely to ever leak, but its easier to repair when done this way. The energy from the heat doesn't know up from down. Warm air rises, but heat waves radiate in all directions. Not common, not for everybody.
That's a good idea. Do you have to worry about condensation or anything?
GREAT VIDEO. THAT PLUMBER WAS AWESOME !!!!!
Installed warmboard and low temperature baseboard, two years ago. I now heat the house from the water heater. No more boilers bring on heat pumps to climate zone 6.
Great video! great editing, however I would have liked to hear more details from the architect.
I live in South Florida and I use my radiant floor every day. It's so much better than opening a window. It get the house so warm without letting in the outside air in.
south florida? Where the average temperatrue in December is 78F high and 62F low?!?! why do you even need heat. if anythign you need year round AC
Great stuff Matt.
Awesome information Mat
Boiler installer here, the plumbers did a good job laying everything out cleanly in the basement, but unfortunately that mixing valve is piped incorrectly and will always have problems finding the set point.
The hydraulic separation (in this case the "closely spaced tees") should be between the high temp loop and the mixing valve, with the radiant circulator pulling from the mix supply port of the valve. Piped the way it is the boiler supply and return ports of the valve are subject to differential pressure changes from other zones kicking on, which significantly decreases that fancy expensive tekmar and 4 way valve from finding the right set point.
The other issue is a term called "valve rangeability". If only one zone consisting of three 300' loops is calling, less than ~0.75gpm of 180F water is needed (real rough napkin math). That mixing valve will be bouncing from completely closed, to one tick open back to closed.
Piped properly you would be able to downsize the piping that ties into the boiler supply/return ports of the 4 way or add a throttling valve to limit water flow. Restrictions the boiler supply to the mixing valve will allow the valve to operate in its full range, reducing deposits in the valve that may restrict movements or lead to failure, and also making it possible for the tekmar controller to easily find your set point.
Good plumbers, but they might consider a hydronics specialist or designer in the future.
I respect your comment sir and will run it by the plumbers - thank you
Long-time design builder here, with a good deal of experience in the mechanical fields. Your comments are well-taken. The homemade hydraulic separator is odd, given the modest cost and great convenience of a manufactured unit that will function properly, without fuss.
I would really like to see a full followup after the heating season sets in. My experience with wrestling with flow balancing on a complex 16 zone Warmboard job is that the manifolds/ zone valve arrangement here is going to be problematic. Running a single zone valve through a larger pipe, to a local manifold, with balancing valves to each loop is simply more straightforward, and easier to balance the loops, as they are all seeing the same thing at the manifold. The flows in these installs are low, so low that throttling down at a single zone/ balancing valve per zone can be really tricky. Trying to divide that flow even further would not be my cup of tea.
Multiple temps definitely makes life more complicated, but was necessary due to baseboard units in the basement. This works at cross-purposes to the energy efficiencies of the inflow radiant, and Warmboard in particular.
Because of the high water temp for the basement, heat pump sourcing is not so attractive, due to need to increase temps with a fueled "booster" unit (boiler). But I have to wonder the wisdom of leaving that old oil-fired unit in place. It appears that the design heat load must be substantially reduced, and that would lead to short-cycling with this behemoth boiler, that presumably is stuck with a fixed firing rate. At the very least, I would have wanted to see a buffer tank, to mediate the short-cycling.
In short, I am always puzzled by projects that start out with all the right goals, but then stop short at some odd point.
Oh, and despite all my experience, I always have a mechanical engineer involved on any project that involves radiant, or any hydronic heat plus AC. Just can't wing this stuff anymore, it is too complicated, too rife with possibilities for error.
It is quite funny to watch this in Europe :) I am building my house as big as this basement. Anyway respect for plumbers
Warmboard is looking so good. Thanks
VIESSMANN made in Germany, Grundfos made in Germany, Viega made in Germany - Welcome to my World. You got the best installed. Products that i use as a mechanic and planing engineer for the last 35 years.
Made in Germany ? No.
Worldwide production factories ? Yes
Issues with radiant flooring to consider:
- Warm floors in winter months are AWESOME, but then in the Spring/Fall when the heat rarely comes on you will still have cool floors.
- Unless you live in Finland or Alaska, you will probably need some A/C too, which will require duct. You will end up paying twice for HVAC distribution.
- Wood floors are not ideal for radiant, and using wide oak as shown here is risky. Narrow strip is better, and engineered or tile better still. Keep in mind, that a 3/4" wood floor will put an R-.75 between you and the heat source. Tile floors radiate better, but are not super confortable. Putting down accent rugs, carpets and mats will also reduce performance.
- The move to air-tight homes with an HRV/ERV fits well with a forced air system. Not so much with the radiant.
We just built, and I was initially leaning hard towards radiant, but for the reasons above, I went forced air/geothermal with a tile warmer in the master bath. Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.
Yes and .. the more moving parts the more trouble .. how many pumps? how many flow control valves? it would be interesting to see how much stuff needs replaced / serviced in the first 10 years.
When in the basement you can see a duct system already in place. Optionally there are ductless VRF systems that can heat and cool different zones.
Great comment. It does look like they're using rift or quartersawn white oak, which is a lot more stable than flatsawn. It's one of the only types of lumber that's really approved for use over radiant heat. Of course other types of flooring (engineered, tile) would be safer, but if you want the look and feel of real solid wood, this should be ok... at least in theory.
I hate my forced air / geothermal.. it's an energy hog with much more expensive maintenance. Swapping out a pump is cheap and easy.
You make an interesting point about heat not being on in spring/fall, but the floors shouldn't actually be cool, just room temp.
That basement looks to be more spacious than my whole house!
Yup I also see crazy big houses when I install Insulation. You can checkout my attic insulation channel if you want to learn more.
2400 sqft he said. Bigger than our house.
@@oltedders I missed him saying that. That's twice the size of my house. Of course I'm in the UK, where houses are smaller generally.
@@dalriada842
I believe houses in the UK are the smallest in Europe. We have the smallest house on our block at 1700 sqft, 3 bdrm and a home office. The master bedroom has an en suite, dressing room, and a small snug. We've converted one of the bedrooms into an 8 seat home cinema. The garage is 420 sqft with a 150 sqft finished attic above. It's quite modest in size but lovely none the less.
@@oltedders is that all floors included or just square footage of one floor? I posted a video in my channel of an attic I completed in a 2500sqft house with 900sqft garage. People have crazy money lol.
One other benefit of radiant floor heat is that occupants tend to set the thermostat a degree or 2 colder than in FA system because you feel warmer when your feet are warm. That equates to some additional fuel savings.
My wish for all new indoor concrete slabs in resi construction -- install pex tubing loops (oxygen barrier) in the slab at time of pour so at some point in the future radiant heat can be added.
3:48 "Warm 'feces' all winter long, man!" Just about had coffee coming outta my nose, LOL
feet not feces, I think is what he said.
@@rascalminihan7381 I understand that he's referring to "feet". I think he's actually trying to say "feet-sies" or some diminutive of "feet" and it came out as "feces" the first time I heard it. Or maybe the audio is poor and it got recorded that way. In any event, the thought of walking around in warm feces all winter long made me laugh. YMMV.
Truly beautiful work. I can't imagine the cost of this but it was fantastically done. I imagine the cost of flooring, mechanicals, and labor for that house would be greater than the entire home price of an average house around here. Still great job though.
In the middle of planning my build, this warm board costs 57k with a boiler. Still need an air handler and ducts for A/C on a 2500 sqft house way too expensive, even when I’m the installer.
@@danbedard290 Assuming that the system lasts 25+ years, what do you think your savings will be on energy costs?
Matt...you should do a show on the type of flooring that is compatible with a hot water in-floor heat. I am really surprised that the guys are laying down oak. Every time I ask flooring people they say NO WAY to solid hardwood and ONLY engineered wood flooring. It is REALLY difficult to get info from manufactures to confirm whether or not their flooring is compatible with a hot water floor system.
I second this, definitive and accurate info online is really difficult to come by.
Doing radiant for at least 30 years......any type of wood can be installed over it. Only provision is a max temp of 80 degrees. and another must is humidification. Warm board works great at these low temps.
I used warm board in our remodel and it is great stuff and a good company to work with.
@william wengel - How many sq/ft did you do in the remodel? What have you noticed using it now vs. your old system? I am very interested in radiant floor systems in general.
@@MattBell_USA it is great....the house might be too warm now! The room we used it in was a living room 530 sq ft and 14ft. High ceilings.
Nice stairstep pattern in the flooring!
Hey Matt can you put that floating floor system from stellar floors w/evan, the one you kicked the boards into place. Placed over this floor without gluing and stapling? In Pennsylvania. Also can you use an on-demand electric or gas water heater?
That's what we're planning on installing, an on-demand water heating system... wondering if it would work with this??
Warmboard looks great but it's REALLY expensive. If you're thinking about this type of system but the cost is a barrier, maybe check out Ecowarm. It's much more affordable than Warmboard and works exactly the same way. (ps. there is some *serious* bad blood between Warmboard and Ecowarm--both companies really lay into each other for various reasons... the products are very similar and they are obviously competing for the same customers).
I was looking at some cost analysis a few months back and I want to say it was like 7$/sqft with self install for the board and the layout done for you. I haven’t looked into ecowarm at all, but I will now! The nice thing is the new construction version takes out the whole subfloor which does bring the cost down a little bit. May be pricey but damn it sure is pretty and simple!
You can also lay out the pipes free form on the subfloor and use a pipe stapler. We do that and just pour a self leveling compound over.
I'm toying with the idea of infloor heat for the entire main floor and basement of a future build. I love the look of the old fashioned radiators and the thermal air blanket they formed at windows. Are these types of systems compatible with adding radiators as different zones with different heat outputs? I think this would allow for the lower floor temperature setting but still have added heat variability in each room from the radiator.
Steve raises engineering a home to an art form. I can't wait to see more of this house.
When you see the little details he uses to get to net zero and passive house standards just makes me go OH MY ... Wow
HEy man - thank you. Stay tuned for upcoming video where we walk this house, details abound and are incredible
In old drafty houses having even radiant floor heat made sense but I think as house gets more energy efficient by being tighter with more insulation I think the benefits of floor heating is diminished except for the bathrooms which could easily be electric.
I considered it for my Townhouse renovation but I could not justify the cost and complexity. If you really want something you can justify it.
I chose spray foam, efficient designed forced air heating system with metal round ducts, 2 zones in a 1700 sf end townhouse - learned from Matt- with 3 sides exposed in a northeast coastal environment. Existing 2x4 framing with a lot of thermal bridging. Conditioned attic.Not super insulated but well sealed. Even after the spray foam was done i would check for leaks when the wind was ripping. I think the spray foam guys did a good job but in the condition attic there were some difficult spots. There were some large voids I filled with can foam. Summer cooling season was successful.
Waiting for winter when the wind can blow off the bay at 30 mph for 24 hrs with air temps in the teens . The wind is what matters and makes a leaky house uncomfortable.
Did you have spray foam installed in your attic? You can add loose fill insulation for hard to reach spots. Checkout my UA-cam channel for more info on loose fill attic insulation.
@@SinnisjInsulator Yes spray foam on underside of roof sheathing. Making it a conditioned attic as tankless water heater and air handler are in the attic.
@@lrc87290 that makes sense. Did you put 2 pound or half pound foam? Hey I'd love for you to checkout my attic insulation channel, let me know what you think. I mostly install loose fill.
This! A tight home virtually negates the need for radiant floor heat (except for bathrooms). I built my home tight and the entire house is the same temperature. I did put the pipes in the basement in case I ever want to add a radiant floor, but given the comfort of the house, this is very unlikely. When you consider the cost, complexity, and downsides of a radiant floor heating system, it's simply not worth it. Besides, radiant floor heating takes forever to heat up (while you freeze) and forever to cool down (after you get too warm).
@@SinnisjInsulator close cell 2 lb. I checked out your channel. Was wondering if you saw Matt Risingers video where he sucked out all the old loose fill then sealed all the leaks in the ceiling/attic floor then blew in new stuff. The video I watch briefly the attic floor was clean so is that what you do?
This setup is so cool but not needed in Central Valley California. Thanks for sharing Matt.
You could hook this up to a cold loop with a geothermal loop and have constant ~18'c radiant cooling. Its been in use in Europe for quite a long time, and its slowly coming to North America (Its already popular in commercial locations, because its MUCH cheaper to run).
I wonder if you could use a system like this as a subfloor and whole home heating for a park model RV or tiny home. If you did how tight would the loops be and does the packs hold up well against the heat that would come in from a solar evacuated tube heater
Beautiful copper work
wow, this has been done in Korea for over thousand years and modern system is in all the apartments/houses in Korea... nice to see this system of efficient/healthy heating picking up in USA...
The Romans heated their floors and bath houses with radiant heat several thousands of years ago.
great system. my question is what are the effects if any to the white oak over time sitting on top of a heated floor. Would it cause shrinkage in the wood planks?
Yes, it does. However, oak isn't equals oak. There's such a huge variation in quality and moisture content when installed, that it's hard to say whether or not it will be a problem. I have 3" red oak plain sawn and I can't go as high in temperature as I wanted. Max. water temperature in my floors is 92 degrees to keep shrinkage to an acceptable level. At that point, you really don't need any zoning controls anymore, because all loops are fully open all winter.
In a room that I've redone, I put in 5" highest quality quarter sawn red oak and haven't seen any shrinkage in 2 years.
cwslsj In the U.K. I struggled to find a solid wood floor that the manufacturer said was ok for underfloor heating. All recommended engineered flooring to minimise shrinkage, movement and warping / cupping.
@@spencerwilton5831 bamboo, Quartersawn is key when you have radiant floors
Hi Matt, is there a plan to upload the "What You Need to Know About Radiant Floor Heating in 2020" webinar to youtube or the Build Show Network website? I signed up for the webinar, but couldn't attend due to scheduling issues. I would love to be able to watch it, though.
Radiant heat systems are awesome! I'm looking at a system from HUG Hydronics... it works similar to this one, it's DIY friendly, and affordable; can't beat that!!
Best. Video. Ever.
What could 77 people have possibly objected to in this video? I’m pretty picky.What did I miss?
Opportunity provides idiots a platform to shine
Could be they don’t like New England, white pine, underfloor heating, high humidity, or anything else mentioned in the video.
Well then why are they here? Looking for cast iron radiators? HVAC sheet metal vents?
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 I hope you are not calling the people picking the system apart 'idiots'. Unless you are 100% sure this system could not have been improved upon when built. You are the architect though, so know one expects you to be the expert on anything.
@@adams4425 I welcome constructive criticism, and learn from it usually. I should have been more specific in defining the trolls of the internet that do nothing but unsubstantiated comments with a negative tone. You dont have to like anything I do, but if you want to criticize, please come with a discussion point
I want to see more about that Perfect Block house in Martha's vineyard
Going out there soon for more videos - stay tuned my friend
Should door heights be increased to accommodate additional 3/4" need for floor heat?
Enjoying the show
Me too!! Thank you for joining us