Good job. The credit for no cracking goes to the compaction of the ground before the pour. A vibratory roller will insure a good soil foundation prior to pouring.
I'm not surprised...I poured a stamped concrete / 3 tier patio deck 15 years ago. The sectional deck is elevated off the ground 5, 6 and 7 feet with storage underneath. The deck section sizes are 24 x 30, 10 x 16 and 14 x 24. For starters, I live in Northern Canada. The cement strength at the time of pour was rated @ 28 mpa with fiber added. The semi dry cement mixture was poured over 6x6 steel mesh re-enforcing on top of q-decking, 6 inches thick. The q-decking is supported by 4 x11 horizontal I-beams on top of schedule 40 10 x10 vertical square box tubing with the shoes installed 5ft into the ground well below the frost line. Contrary to recommendations...., I specifically didn't want any relief cuts as it would interfere with the stamped pattern, to this day, the deck has never cracked under tons of snow loads or cracked from freezing and heaving from below in minus 20 degree temperatures. It never budged. 8 years ago, I closed in the 14 x 24 section to create a sun room and is where I enjoy my morning coffee It's all about prep work
Thanks for sharing and I agree the prep is the key component to a crack free floor. But sometimes it just acts like concrete and cracks because it wants to piss us masons off. LOL @@IR-nq4qv
@@bondobuilt386 true that, concrete generates heat during the drying phase, if it doesn't all dry evenly at the same rate..., all the Prep work in the world goes out the window. If you get a bad mix, then you're game for anything.
Prepping the base properly is the key. I built my shop in 2004 with a 24x30 floor with no cuts and i don't have any cracks. I'm in Canada so I excavated down 6ft and placed footings and foundation walls. I had the interior filled with 5ft of sand compacted every foot. I levelled out the top, laid down 2" polystyrene, vabor barrier, 12x12 grid of 1/2 rebar. The floor is 8" thick.
Good job Bondo. Yes I see a lot of these videos and guys are flowing the concrete like water. My engineering background has me freaking out when I see that. Stiff slump is harder work, but a sign of a quality contractor
Nice work. My being an amateur at it, this doesn't surprise me. I owned a sawmill and stone quarry in Clinton County NY. Both were new start ups at the time. Having limited funds I always prepped and poured with my own men. Always used 4,000 pound mix, always poured 6", always went down 12" for the edges and 12" wide w/rebar, always used wire mesh, always lifted the mesh. Any pour was always on well drained and compacted area. Saw cut was not anything I knew about, so it was never done. I never had any frost heave or cracking. Living in Florida now is a different experience. It is hard to have a stable base on sand. Contractors don't want to use wire mesh. They freak when told I want #4 rebar 24" on center, tied to wire mesh and a 4,000# mix. They love to saw cut, I don't let them. The result is still crack free pours learned from my previous experience with the added guarantee of rebar. Nice work !!
I've got a 15 year old 40x44 slab that is 5.5 inches with wire tied rebar and they used the metal quick key type expansion joints. Not a single crack in 15 years and I park old tractors and RVs on it.
From NY to FL. "Living in Florida now is a different experience." REALLY ! :-) Do you find yourself often saying, "Up north we . . . " . In FL they just want to do everything half-a$$ed. BTW, can you ever get a full crew on a Friday ? Some tradesmen will work long days M - Th to get off on Friday. But about half are going fishing on Friday no matter what they did during the week. Ya just have to adjust. :-)
Thanks for making this video, it covered so many aspects of making a successful pour. There was only ONE point that you didn't stress; Having a good team of experienced workers with you. Concerting , as a trade involves heavy manual work, and finding workers that aren't afraid of hard work is like finding rocking horse droppings. I've worked with folks that did nothing but concreting, and In ten days, I learned more than I did in 30 years of working in the building industry. It's educational to work with "specialists".
Subbase compaction has NOTHING to do with plastic concrete shrinkage that causes most cracks in concrete. Proper water-cement ratio and admixtures have everything to do with low-crack concrete. Proper subbase preparation/compaction/drainage is key to long-term performance to eliminate differential settlement, but that's not what causes shrinkage cracking.
I have to agree with you because it is all but impossible to pour a slab in the summer sun without it cracking. Some crack before we can cut them the next day. Then in the cold fall or inside pour and low or no cracks. @@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb
Yep, if you can manage the water loss due to curing and evaporation then you can control the shrinkage and hence the cracking. The first couple days often dictates how a slab cracks.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb correct. So when the ready mix guy pulls up and says Do you want me to add water? Your answer should always be NO! The mix is correct when it leaves the plant. There is a 1:1 relationship between cracking and no slump test at the job site.
As a union iron worker I was able fawn employed as a rod buster. I built my own house and garage using commercial standards for reinforcement and concrete. 18 years for my basement with no cracks showing. And 21 years for my garage with no cracks showing. And I use my garage to repair heavy equipment. So it has had some tremendous loads on it. It’s all about proper site preparation and reinforcement. Science and engineering works ! Nice work on your building sir !
10:09 I talk about the concrete. There is no fly ash in this mix either. I think the biggest factor was it was poured inside out of the sun and wind and also the prep work under the slab. @@ShadyD365
Pole barns if done right will easily last 100 years. The 60 x 60 free span my dad built in 1966 is still standing fine, and only 1 post 6x6 on 10 foor centers, has twisted. But we sunk the footings 4 feet down. And the posts sit on the concrete that is 12 inches thinkc below 48 inches.. And then when the posts were set over a rerod pin set in the concrete, we poured 2 wheel barrows of concrete around each post. Ground is heavy michigan clay and we backfield with sand . Never concrete up to the posts. The posts are supposed to move slightly under wind load. 16 foot side wall height 4/12 pitch homemade trusses. We made them innthe driveway using an engineered print old school wheat glue, and very specific nail patterns. It was fun for a 5 year old but not so much for dad I am sure. Thanks for the videos !!!! Nice work.
Brilliant work. You have found the secret of using Leaverite with the proprietary gonkulating applicator. Although I'm pretty much aged out of concrete work, I very much enjoy learning your style. Thanks!
What I always found amazing is that we do everything to stop concrete from cracking adding wire , rebar , fiber mesh etc... But ya still get some cracks . But yet where the truck washes the shoot out adding so much water and doing everything what you would think would cause cracks . IT DOESN'T" . That's CRAZY !
I have cut a lot of concrete, not because It was my choice though.. I have never thought it was a good idea. What I do for myself does not get cut. Lots of rebar and mesh all welded/tied. Having done many miles of B6-12 curb with a face form, then hand shape/finish with 2 hand wood/mag I had to laugh when you said the curb was a pain.. Thanks for showing us this pour!
Great job. I have a barn style garage with a lean to for the orses. Mo more horses, and now I want to finish it with concrete. The garage is exactly 33 yers old, and it never had saw cuts for expansion. Not one crack in it still, and we are in lower Michigan where it does get cold. I gotta get my lean to concreted in. This encourages me to get it done. THUMBS UP!!!
I think because the ground was properly compacted first, plenty of re-bar in, plastic barrier between dirt and concrete, strong 4000psi good concrete mix etc. and it got to cure indoors in a fairly controlled way.
@@bondobuilt386I started using both rebar and mesh to reinforce slabs , UV protection poly . My Old Dad was a concrete man he built thousands of foundations , mostly houses . He worked Industrial jobs too , hydro dams etc ….. the shop he built on the farm 50x40 one foot deep slab , fourty years ago . To this day not a single crack , mesh only . For years we used it to store and maintain the International TD-20 . The quality of the concrete is the secret . 👍🇨🇦
I agree with your opinion on burying the posts. In Wisconsin they bury the posts also. When we built my dad’s pole barn I used sauna tubes and poured concrete footers for the posts and and weld it up my own brackets and anchor, bolted to footing and through bolted the posts. Now they make brackets for this application. Good job on all your work, enjoy watching the boy’s. Thanks for sharing your experience and tricks.
My son-in-law Shane had some guys pour a slab for his house about 5 years ago. It was in N GA in the winter and the contrator added something to the mix that they said would make it dry faster. He said not to add the drying agent, but they did any. That slab cracked within a month or two, big hairy cracks I mean. And that was their finished floor. So he lived there with the wife and kids a couple years, then sold during the 'seller's market' of the century. They're about to move into a new house he built, wood on blocks, no slab this time.
I just had a 30x40 pad poured and I did all the dirt work and compaction my self took me 3 weeks to get it how I wanted however my pad has not cracked yet knock on wood. Wish I ran drains like you did. But awesome job man that looks great!
Mines over 20 some yrs old (previous owner had it built) also fine. 16 years ago I added aluminum treadplate skirting about 18" down around outside tucked under rat guard then used tamper and later poured concrete walk on 3 sides with good slope for drainage hopefully helping it. Wood and preservative from yesteryear was better (more heartwood) than what we have today. Other factors like soil type, guttering and site conditions I figure also effect lifespan. I just hope to outlive mine don't care to get into pole repair
A couple things. These buildings, post frame, can be made to last 100+ years by pouring piers with anchored mounting brackets, like RR buildings does still minimal foundation cost compared to a full grade beam set up. Also, a mid range water reducer is very well behaved and would either allow you a higher slump, or reduced water. They actually make finishing much easier due to how they enable better cream formation at the surface. For sure the high range water reducers, or super plasticizers, can be finicky and have some time issues. Too bad you can't run up and pour a few slabs with Mike Day.
I have used it a few times but it is like the plants around me are not sure how much to add and they are not quite there yet with plasticizers and the plants near Mike got it pegged to perfection. As far as the post frame buildings I wish they would build them like R R does it.
I would agree with the need for better building methods. I would agree the best way to do it is the same way R.R. Building does it. Your slab is still poured after so it's still a temporary building giving you a break on your land taxes. Why someone would spend $25 to $40K on a building that is only going to last 30 to 40 years is beyond me. They do make special pressure treated wood for Sub-grade construction. It's meant to be buried in the ground, but most places don't carry it on a regular basis it would have to be ordered. As far as strength and not cracking the curb definitely helps but a properly prepared sub surface is key. You said he had brought in a huge vibratory roller. I'm sure that made a huge huge difference in strength. Thinking of giant buildings and sky scrapers the usually over excavate 20 to 40 feet below ground then start compacting in 3 to 6 inch lifts. Add several feet of heavily compacted stone. Your base material is what keeps it all stable and doesn't allow it to sink or twist. Love the videos have been a fan for years. Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge and tips.
those post are very weak bolted to those brackets,the brackets will live thru it all set in concrete,the weak spot is the bolt in the post,the post was just weakened
"We pull our mesh up. We don't leave in on the ground. Look at my guys pulling it up with a rake." Then everybody WALKS ON IT & PUSHES IT BACK DOWN TO THE GROUND... LOL
Yeah they're being hacks, and they're not going to admit it... If they want to do the job right they'd use blocks so it was dead center in the middle of the slab; but they won't do that because they might trip and hurt their little pretty faces
@@bcrusher1979, LOL... the mesh gets stepped on; it lowers/sinks PERIOD. Dobies or mesh/rebar chairs should be used & anyone begging to differ is a HACK...
If you had a clue about concrete you would know it is suppose to be in the bottom 1/3 of the slab on the tension side so as weight is put on the slab it resists cracking. In the middle of the slab the wire acts lie a hinge and slab cracks. Think about it before you make a foolish simple minded comment. @@xephael3485
I agree with you and built my workshop, which is the same 32x48 size as this one, using stud walls on the concrete slab. Modern treated lumber seldom lasts more than 30 years underground and I build things to last much longer than 30 years. My builder put the metal expansion joints in my shop floor and that saves having to cut the floor and makes a much smaller place for a crack. My floor has pex in it and has very small cracks alongside of the metal expansion joints, but is very smooth and easy to roll things over.
Yet again, what does this show doing proper preparation majes the end product something you can be proud of. too bad we don't have a lot of that anymore
This guy really really prepped the base nicely and you pourned a great product and did a great job. So am i suprised it didnt crack not really you guys know your stuff.But it does amaze me that there are no hairline cracks at the corners.
Regardless of saying what the guy should have built--I appreciate someone storing their equipment inside a nice building instead of spread all over their land in a residential area or even rural area-and this guy has created an awesome well-organized shop inside.
Lot of pole sheds built that way out there, mine was built in the 70s. Morton and possibly others now put a concrete post in the ground and then attach wood above ground. My buddy's shop concrete has very few cracks in the concrete after 30 years
Basically all concrete has excess water that contributes to the shrinking as it evaporates. I think the biggest factor is that you're pouring it stiff and you have 7 guys. The prep, thickness, and mesh helps as well of course. I've poured plenty of slabs that never cracked even though they were way bigger than a normal saw cut grid. I aim for .44 W/C ratio through use of plasticizers. Lots of guys are using 50% more water than that.
Proper compaction of the base and good concrete mix without adding water is likely why you had no cracks. Basically the concrete did not settle, and did not shrink which causes cracks. For even better crack control, increase the wire size, and overlap your wire at least 1 square, and use chairs to raise the wire to the mid of the slab instead of pulling it up after. Plasticized concrete will also allow better flow instead of adding water. Another detail I insist on is to do a spray on curing sealer right after the final finish is done. The curing sealer will harden the surface properly and prevent pondering in the future.
Wish I would have had your videos 25 years ago. Poured a 18x22 slab with a friend that said he knew how. The concrete truck driver tried to warn us about too much mud in the middle. Our stabbed together 2x4 screed bowed so we crowned it. Then waited too long to trowel it so my buddy said how about a broom finish? I was clueless so sure sounds good. I had to shopvac the sawdust in that shop. Could not sweep the dust on that floor. Live and learn.
Down south we pour flatwork with curb walls or drop walls on a regular basis it takes more hands on . And a couple men on knee boards, we pull the form , finish the curb and the flat work as we go.
A major factor in a successful PCC Slab is the type of sub grade material your building on as well as its compaction and preparation, including base rock. Concrete type, temperature, slump etc etc are also important factors as well as shape. Eventually it will show cracks regardless of even most reinforcement. Great job and great crew sir. Keep everyone well and safe.
Thank you and I agree with all you say. I think shape for sure is a major factor. The slabs with blots of corners are impossible to keep from cracking off those inside corners when the slab shrinks.
I like the way Mr. Post Frame does them. Set on concrete piers and then a kind of strong tie set in the concrete. No exposure of the wood to dirt or concrete. I don't work for Mr. Post Frame.
The ends of the poles are covered with water proofing, therefore they’ll last a lot longer than you think. To add, we use Eastern Red Cedar poles. Your job looks good.
@@ethanlewis1453 I’m sure it will be around longer than I will. My Dad built this shop to last. I’m glad I talked him into insulating it too. My Dad passed away on 1/25/2019 at age 83. He was a great man.
I use to work with crews like this, everyone is an expert. Now I do the same thing by myself ( I had my cousin help on a three bay garage last time). It will crack without inserts or saw cuts just give it time.
the bottom of the 6x6's have a coating on them to keep the poles from rotting at the bottom. its like a black tar like coating. well, at least i know you can get them like that, and not sure why someone wouldn't.
That slump looked less that 5" to 6", I think more like 4". With some air entrainment, that is probably why no cracking. Slop concrete is easier to screed, which is why contractors often have the trucks add water to the mix before pouring. When I was inspecting, I would do slump test at the site and not allow adding water unless the slump was far out of spec. I would reject trucks delivering slop and even not certify a pour if concrete was out of spec. Contractors knew not to pour slop when I was on the job.
my ground is all shale and iv done a 45x50 57yards 5000psi w fiber no wire or rebar an no cuts and its not cracked will be 15yrs in may. also did the driveway 50x30 10yrs no cracks but I did a 16x28 for my machine shop and I put 4 inch 2b stone under it and 1/2 rebar 3500psi 20yrs ago and it cracked in less then a year so I just save money and do just concrete here. thanks for sharing
Nice job bondo. I like how you kept the power trowel in the back. I assume cuz no other doors and back side would be going off first being poured first. Good thinking. 👍
Nice job! I'm looking into the use of Geofoam under slab. It is very effective in ground stabilization, I imagine it would do great for crack prevention along with Helix 5-25 admixture.
ive used short chairs and had no trouble running barrows. at least i know the mesh ends up higher in slab rather then getting trodden down by the screeders.
I do like the curb idea ! My barn doesn't have that and i wish it did. Mine is 6" "4800psi over 4" of pea stone due to solid clay substrate, has a shallow rat wall mono-pour around the edge, 12" x 12" deep at the doors , wire, plastic sheating and expansion fiber around the posts (Mid Michigan winters) i saw cut it & kept it damp for a month. It's now 20 years old, had fork trucks cars, CNC machines on it and only have a few very thin cracks but it hasn't spread or lifted. I don't care for the concrete against the steel corrugated siding. Now the curb has corrugations in it and if the siding needs replaced due to rust from the concrete and moisture (which it likely will) the new siding will need to match and be placed exactly the same. Not your build and not the way I'd do it is all. I like your work ! Wanna come do my driveway ?
I have done a couple of jobs where we used Ductilcrete where the only control joints were 60 foot on center. Definitely crazy to see that large of an area with no saw joints or cracks.
All those buildings in our area use perma-columns it is a concrete post that is connected to the wood post by a steel bracket. That’s makes it a forever barn
Our shop 32x56 was built in 2014 and not a crack in it to this day. Six inches concrerete rebar and fiber mesh, 8 inches sand and 2 inches foam. and in floor heat.
when i put poles in the ground i spread a layer of tar on them . if they are for a fence i continue extra 6 inches higher than concrete with the tar .adds a lot of years to the post
I have a 180m2 slab which is now 6 years old. I have compacted the ground and insulated it and I dont have a single crack. Its all about the prep if it cracks or not.
Nice work ! I had a 20 x 40 ft I also did not want saw cut. I thought the 18" thickness, yes 18", would save me. but no two cracks developed about a year later
In the Chicago area, we call this a rat wall. Its usually not done with the structure in place, usually the walls anchor to the top of it. Not a new idea, mostly seen on the garages one builder did in the 40's/50's. Never thought about it, but I'm sure your right about the wall and cracking... Most of those I've see are still intact from the 40's.
My last pour was a pole barn as well. I stood in the barn during the pour and would not let the men spreading to get the driver to turn his water hose on. Pissed everyone off however I have no cracks even with my 55000 lb Motorhome parked on it. Dry is better, more work for everyone but well worth it.
For your curb detail take some 2x4 or 2x6 material the same length as your form lumber and rip up some strips at a 45 degree angle. Then tack them to your form boards so you can remove them later when cleaning up. Wrap them up in a bundle so they don't warp all over the place until the next use. At least then you can hand finish under the edge before pulling the sides. Bob's your uncle.
Hey nice work It’s nice you have good reliable people. I live in Jersey and wish my town would OK a Monolithic slab so I can build a garage. I’m thinking Pole Barn because they allow it and it 1/3 cost of garage with full dug footings and block.
He should have put pex in the slab for heat. That is the best decision I made on my shop. Very inexpensive to heat and very comfortable to work in during the winter. I keep the thermostat at 65 and it is very comfortable for working.
@@bondobuilt386waste oil boiler with in floor heat would have been the best option. Sense he wants to be able to burn used oil. Best of both scenarios.
I'm replacing a haybarn with similar pole-barn construction built in 1971. The posts completely rotted 10 years ago and I propped up the barn in 2016 with self-built laminated posts set 4' in the ground and 2' inside of the original posts. These new posts..with new treated lumber are already rotting. A windstorm last year took down about 40% of the 36 x90 structure. Our 40x60 machine shed which is all metal and built about the same time is still going strong. Even though it was a very cheap low grade kit. If it wasn't hit by tractors and equipment over the years it would still be in very good shape. I'm going with the 2" square tubing ladder frames and trusses every 4'. Will never consider a pole barn again. Just too much maintenance over the years and wood bees love to bore holes in all of that wood. Tempted to build a deep stem wall for the foundation instead of a concrete slab with thick concrete around the edges.
Heating the building is definitely going to reduce the chance of getting any cracking. I live in Canada and would definitely cut it though I understand why he didn't want it. Nice job.
I have a 6" 2400sf slab as well in a shop building. I had one crack show up after 2 years. It's a post building. I'll take the saw cuts any day over that hairline crack. With the saw cuts, wheels roll over them easily and for the "dirt accumulation." They're either filled with dirt making them flush, or as I did. Sweep some sand in them and then run a line of Tremco 45 SSL over them. They basically disappeared. The hairline crack on the otherhand is almost impossible to fill and make it look nice.
Hypothesis: * Must be those wooden vertical support columns that go 4 foot into the ground, along with the concrete "curb" that you added, keeps the entire slab from moving and creating any large cracks. * I don't remember if you stating if the owner installed any insulation "under" the slab but I remember you stating that he compacted the soil really well.... and all of those elements together must be combining to keep the slab from shifting and creating any cracks... which is incredible... especially in the colder areas of NY. * I grew up in Western NY close to Olean.... and I know how cold it gets! * I also built some concrete porches with my Father.... AND we had a concrete lawn ornaments business (ie: urns, water-fountains, religions statues and animals statues etc) so I have "a little" experience with concrete. Great tips and feedback... most appreciated. Amen Retired, Veteran
It can be done. The hangar where I work was poured in 2005 and there aren't any stress cracks in it anywhere., which is what you'd expect for a slab with a 737 parked on it for days and weeks at a time as they go through maintenance.
I saw and heard you commenting about pulling the wire up after the concrete was poured, but does it not get pushed right back down when the guys walk all over it? While this concrete hasn't cracked yet, if the wire is pushed back down, would braced rebar not be better long term to prevent separation if and when it does crack? I wonder if the building itself works as a pooling system to hold expansion to a minimum.
Nice Job it turned out great. I like the curb poured between the posts, great for keeping the critters out and power washing the floor. Would wrapping the posts with tar paper help to keep the concrete from pulling the moisture out of the posts and prematurely dry rotting them? I've watched many slabs being poured, metal trowels leave the concrete the smoothest and almost seal it. I've also worked in a shop with metal trowel finish and sealer applied. With the correct shoes and watching where you walk you hardly ever slip. Clean up is also very easy. On driveways I've watched finishers use wooden trowels. This leaves the concrete with a nice anti slip finish which is also easy to keep swept off. The worst I've seen is the broom finish. It is the roughest finish and hardest to keep swept off. It seems like you can never sweep the dust off of it and it's the easiest to damage by scraping something on it. Do you still offer a wooden trowel finish better yet does the power trowel have an option for wooden paddles?
I had a 30'x36' 6in slab poured a few years ago. Our ground prep work was the same. 1/2" or 5/8" rebar 2ft on center with x4 in the footer. I put about x100 3in blocks under cross connections. Just broken off pieces from some large pavers. I'm sure it was annoying for the finishers, but i know that my rebar is fully incased and I didn't need to overdo the amount of rebar. I still have no cracks. We don't have freezing temps much, but the building is about 4ft above sea level next to tidal water. @@bondobuilt386
Bondo, I know you mentioned you didn’t want to rip your form boards. Maybe a 45 piece could have been added to the bottom if it was a big deal. Probably wasn’t. Still turned out nice !
Still doesn't make sense to me as far as just sticking the main poles in the ground. The building may be cheaper, but he obviously spent a wad for the concrete and the spray foam. How much more would it have been simply to put some of those pre-made forms and concrete them in with some water proofing afterwards? Or even just something to coat the wood and/or provide a barrier and make it last even longer. And why not pour the curb first and then the slab? With the weight of the vehicles he's running I also think the owner should have had you guys pour maybe a short slab in front so he wouldn't chunk out the front edge of the barn slab. All just my opinions of course.
Don't worry, it will crack eventually. Like all things concrete expands and contracts. Without expansion joints being installed in a slab of this size, it will crack.
If the forms were made of rust or rot proof stuff & left in place after the pour? Would that help to minimize cracking by keeping the slab or podium deck inside a box, eliminating expansion space?
no box would stop concrete from moving but concrete actually shrinks as it dries. frost will lift it if it gets under an unheated slab in wet slow draining soils
The cracking in slabs is often caused by shrinkage, not expansion like many believe. The purpose of saw cuts is to put those cracks from shrinkage in beneficial locations. This is why saw cuts have to be made relatively quickly (within 12 hrs) of the placement. With proper moisture management you can help eliminate some of the water loss that leads to too much shrinkage. It's tough to manage consistently just do to the variable nature of concrete and the elements. Obviously you can get cracking due to poor compaction of the subbase but a lot of cracks later in life are just the growth of the hair line cracks formed from the first couple days of curing.
The only thing I would do differently is, I would have the owner buy a case of automotive undercoat, in spray cans, tape the siding and the posts and give them a good heavy coat. It will prevent the post rot from the concrete, and stop the lime from eating the siding up. That must be an Amish building the new pole barns use piers with galvanized brackets set at grade to hold the posts, they don’t bury the posts in the ground anymore, just for the reasons you stated keeping them out of the concrete. In this case with the curb, he still would have had to coat them to keep the rot at bay. You probably knew all this, just my observation, I enjoy your content every video. 👍👌
Agree with doing something to keep the concrete/lime from eating that metal siding. But pole barns are still built every day with 6x6’s buried in the ground. I’m not a fan of the idea either but I’ve yet to see one that needed to be rebuilt due to the post rotting.
@@AllstarVentures Yeah, they are but my experience is, usually by the Amish crews, they do a good job, but are pretty old school in some of their practices. Can’t ask for harder working folks, they do get it done. I did a pole barn type of addition on my garage, I made my own brackets so the 6x6’s didn’t have to go in the ground, the piers were over code at 5’ deep, I have no rot, anywhere.
Two years into a 50x40 shop 4" thick, saw cut it 1.5" about 3Xs in both directions, so not very many. Using 3000psi, wire mesh & mico fiber, the thing dosen't have one crack so far. 29PALMS USMC live range is about 10mi away & we're shaken ALL the time! I've used micro-fiber on several patios, garages & additions, almost never experience a crack!
I am not a concrete guy but I have a question. It appears the rebar is not elevated. Does that cause cracking and Spaulding on the underside of the slab, which could eventually propagate to the surface?
Ok, I'm one of those naysayers that just doesn't believe that the occasional lifting of that wire mesh is sufficient. I see, where you first mention how you do it that yes you lift it and it sure does look like that mesh is floating in the bottom 1/2 of the concrete ( at that moment ). However, when I stop the video at let's say 15:35 I see 5 guys standing on/in that concrete on top of that mesh you're telling me that without chairs that mesh is going to pop back up? In the foreground of that time stamp it looks like that mesh is almost flat on the ground. The WET PAD was cool. I was wondering on large slabs how do you verify the proper slope across the entire slab.
No cracking in that is amazing. Just cement? (no fly ash or slag)? The curb is not the reason - it is probably mostly because of really good sand gradation. You have a really good supplier. Pouring inside helps.
@@bondobuilt386 Thanks and also for your video. I meant the sand particle size gradation in the concrete, if it isn't really good you need more water to get to the same slump. If that big slab didn't crack, it was perfect.
Oh I got ya. Makes sense. I know one time they got the wrong sand and I noticed it Immediately and called the plant They accidentally sent them sand from the wrong pile. It was traction control sand and they were like diamond size and started poping out when I machined it. What a pain. LOL@@SpaceCrete
I am a career concrete contractor , there are 2 kinds of concrete the kind that has cracked and the kind that hasnt cracked yet , when you dont put joints it will crack where it wants to and this slab in time most certainly will, for anyone to think differntly is complete ignorance. but I do agree , give the customer what they want, this wants uncontrolled cracks , may be 5-8 years down the road
Great work. You mentioned all these variables: 6" slab, 4000 psi with no plasticizers or extra water added, 5.5-6 slump, and a wire mesh that was lifted up. Do you think it's a synergy of all that, or is there 1 or 2 of those things that really prevented the cracking? Just wondering if this is possible with a 4" slab.
Good job. The credit for no cracking goes to the compaction of the ground before the pour. A vibratory roller will insure a good soil foundation prior to pouring.
Been playing in the mud for 20 years. I’m blown away it didn’t crack. Hell of a job as usual!
Thanks and yup I do not understand it. LOL
I'm not surprised...I poured a stamped concrete / 3 tier patio deck 15 years ago. The sectional deck is elevated off the ground 5, 6 and 7 feet with storage underneath. The deck section sizes are 24 x 30, 10 x 16 and 14 x 24.
For starters, I live in Northern Canada. The cement strength at the time of pour was rated @ 28 mpa with fiber added. The semi dry cement mixture was poured over 6x6 steel mesh re-enforcing on top of q-decking, 6 inches thick. The q-decking is supported by 4 x11 horizontal I-beams on top of schedule 40 10 x10 vertical square box tubing with the shoes installed 5ft into the ground well below the frost line.
Contrary to recommendations....,
I specifically didn't want any relief cuts as it would interfere with the stamped pattern, to this day, the deck has never cracked under tons of snow loads or cracked from freezing and heaving from below in minus 20 degree temperatures. It never budged. 8 years ago, I closed in the 14 x 24 section to create a sun room and is where I enjoy my morning coffee
It's all about prep work
Thanks for sharing and I agree the prep is the key component to a crack free floor. But sometimes it just acts like concrete and cracks because it wants to piss us masons off. LOL @@IR-nq4qv
@@bondobuilt386 true that, concrete generates heat during the drying phase, if it doesn't all dry evenly at the same rate..., all the Prep work in the world goes out the window. If you get a bad mix, then you're game for anything.
Prepping the base properly is the key. I built my shop in 2004 with a 24x30 floor with no cuts and i don't have any cracks. I'm in Canada so I excavated down 6ft and placed footings and foundation walls. I had the interior filled with 5ft of sand compacted every foot. I levelled out the top, laid down 2" polystyrene, vabor barrier, 12x12 grid of 1/2 rebar. The floor is 8" thick.
Good job Bondo. Yes I see a lot of these videos and guys are flowing the concrete like water. My engineering background has me freaking out when I see that. Stiff slump is harder work, but a sign of a quality contractor
Nice work. My being an amateur at it, this doesn't surprise me. I owned a sawmill and stone quarry in Clinton County NY. Both were new start ups at the time. Having limited funds I always prepped and poured with my own men. Always used 4,000 pound mix, always poured 6", always went down 12" for the edges and 12" wide w/rebar, always used wire mesh, always lifted the mesh. Any pour was always on well drained and compacted area. Saw cut was not anything I knew about, so it was never done. I never had any frost heave or cracking.
Living in Florida now is a different experience. It is hard to have a stable base on sand. Contractors don't want to use wire mesh. They freak when told I want #4 rebar 24" on center, tied to wire mesh and a 4,000# mix. They love to saw cut, I don't let them. The result is still crack free pours learned from my previous experience with the added guarantee of rebar.
Nice work !!
Thanks and sounds like you do good work.
I did mine 26 years ago, fly ash under pad, no cuts no cracks, 4” pad 24x36, 5,600 psi , hopefully yours last another 50 years probably free
I've got a 15 year old 40x44 slab that is 5.5 inches with wire tied rebar and they used the metal quick key type expansion joints. Not a single crack in 15 years and I park old tractors and RVs on it.
From NY to FL. "Living in Florida now is a different experience." REALLY ! :-) Do you find yourself often saying, "Up north we . . . " . In FL they just want to do everything half-a$$ed. BTW, can you ever get a full crew on a Friday ? Some tradesmen will work long days M - Th to get off on Friday. But about half are going fishing on Friday no matter what they did during the week. Ya just have to adjust. :-)
Thanks for making this video, it covered so many aspects of making a successful pour.
There was only ONE point that you didn't stress;
Having a good team of experienced workers with you.
Concerting , as a trade involves heavy manual work,
and finding workers that aren't afraid of hard work is like finding rocking horse droppings.
I've worked with folks that did nothing but concreting,
and In ten days, I learned more than I did in 30 years of working in the building industry.
It's educational to work with "specialists".
Well thanks for sharing that and I definitely agree that concrete guys are a different breed. They are hard to find
I have a feeling that guy compacted the hell out of the base which is helping prevent cracks.
He did with his big roller.
Subbase compaction has NOTHING to do with plastic concrete shrinkage that causes most cracks in concrete. Proper water-cement ratio and admixtures have everything to do with low-crack concrete.
Proper subbase preparation/compaction/drainage is key to long-term performance to eliminate differential settlement, but that's not what causes shrinkage cracking.
I have to agree with you because it is all but impossible to pour a slab in the summer sun without it cracking. Some crack before we can cut them the next day. Then in the cold fall or inside pour and low or no cracks. @@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb
Yep, if you can manage the water loss due to curing and evaporation then you can control the shrinkage and hence the cracking. The first couple days often dictates how a slab cracks.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb correct.
So when the ready mix guy pulls up and says Do you want me to add water? Your answer should always be NO!
The mix is correct when it leaves the plant.
There is a 1:1 relationship between cracking and no slump test at the job site.
As a union iron worker I was able fawn employed as a rod buster. I built my own house and garage using commercial standards for reinforcement and concrete. 18 years for my basement with no cracks showing. And 21 years for my garage with no cracks showing. And I use my garage to repair heavy equipment. So it has had some tremendous loads on it. It’s all about proper site preparation and reinforcement. Science and engineering works ! Nice work on your building sir !
Thanks for sharing and I agree with what you say about prep work.
10:09 I talk about the concrete. There is no fly ash in this mix either. I think the biggest factor was it was poured inside out of the sun and wind and also the prep work under the slab. @@ShadyD365
I like the spray foam and the curb, which as you point out, is a nice place to be able to set stuff.
He loves that detail and evidently it adds a bunch of strength too
Sure turn out nice I like the idea of the curb . And the house looks nice too . Good job 👍
Thanks David. The house turned out amazing
Pole barns if done right will easily last 100 years.
The 60 x 60 free span my dad built in 1966 is still standing fine, and only 1 post 6x6 on 10 foor centers, has twisted.
But we sunk the footings 4 feet down. And the posts sit on the concrete that is 12 inches thinkc below 48 inches..
And then when the posts were set over a rerod pin set in the concrete, we poured 2 wheel barrows of concrete around each post.
Ground is heavy michigan clay and we backfield with sand .
Never concrete up to the posts. The posts are supposed to move slightly under wind load.
16 foot side wall height 4/12 pitch homemade trusses. We made them innthe driveway using an engineered print old school wheat glue, and very specific nail patterns. It was fun for a 5 year old but not so much for dad I am sure.
Thanks for the videos !!!! Nice work.
What a smart-looking shop. A-1 for sure. Gorgeous. Nice video, Bondo.
Brilliant work. You have found the secret of using Leaverite with the proprietary gonkulating applicator. Although I'm pretty much aged out of concrete work, I very much enjoy learning your style. Thanks!
LOL Thanks
What I always found amazing is that we do everything to stop concrete from cracking adding wire , rebar , fiber mesh etc... But ya still get some cracks . But yet where the truck washes the shoot out adding so much water and doing everything what you would think would cause cracks . IT DOESN'T" . That's CRAZY !
I have cut a lot of concrete, not because It was my choice though.. I have never thought it was a good idea. What I do for myself does not get cut. Lots of rebar and mesh all welded/tied. Having done many miles of B6-12 curb with a face form, then hand shape/finish with 2 hand wood/mag I had to laugh when you said the curb was a pain.. Thanks for showing us this pour!
Great job. I have a barn style garage with a lean to for the orses. Mo more horses, and now I want to finish it with concrete. The garage is exactly 33 yers old, and it never had saw cuts for expansion. Not one crack in it still, and we are in lower Michigan where it does get cold. I gotta get my lean to concreted in. This encourages me to get it done. THUMBS UP!!!
I think because the ground was properly compacted first, plenty of re-bar in, plastic barrier between dirt and concrete, strong 4000psi good concrete mix etc. and it got to cure indoors in a fairly controlled way.
No rebar, just ww...
Yes no rebar but I agree with compaction and the other factors you mentioned.
Yup no bar @@berthaduniverse
@@bondobuilt386 Ah sorry that's true, it is just wire grid.
@@bondobuilt386I started using both rebar and mesh to reinforce slabs , UV protection poly . My Old Dad was a concrete man he built thousands of foundations , mostly houses . He worked Industrial jobs too , hydro dams etc ….. the shop he built on the farm 50x40 one foot deep slab , fourty years ago . To this day not a single crack , mesh only . For years we used it to store and maintain the International TD-20 . The quality of the concrete is the secret . 👍🇨🇦
Love the follow-up, great work.
Thanks it just worked out because I never made the video for this barn from last year. LOL
I agree with your opinion on burying the posts. In Wisconsin they bury the posts also. When we built my dad’s pole barn I used sauna tubes and poured concrete footers for the posts and and weld it up my own brackets and anchor, bolted to footing and through bolted the posts. Now they make brackets for this application. Good job on all your work, enjoy watching the boy’s. Thanks for sharing your experience and tricks.
My son-in-law Shane had some guys pour a slab for his house about 5 years ago. It was in N GA in the winter and the contrator added something to the mix that they said would make it dry faster. He said not to add the drying agent, but they did any. That slab cracked within a month or two, big hairy cracks I mean. And that was their finished floor. So he lived there with the wife and kids a couple years, then sold during the 'seller's market' of the century. They're about to move into a new house he built, wood on blocks, no slab this time.
I just had a 30x40 pad poured and I did all the dirt work and compaction my self took me 3 weeks to get it how I wanted however my pad has not cracked yet knock on wood. Wish I ran drains like you did. But awesome job man that looks great!
ALWAYS one big dude with a belly on every concrete crew that never wears a shirt! Nice work guys
lol yup 👍🏻
My pole barn is 30 years old and the posts are just as good as the day I built it.
you are lucky my friend
Mines over 20 some yrs old (previous owner had it built) also fine.
16 years ago I added aluminum treadplate skirting about 18" down around outside tucked under rat guard then used tamper and later poured concrete walk on 3 sides with good slope for drainage hopefully helping it.
Wood and preservative from yesteryear was better (more heartwood) than what we have today. Other factors like soil type, guttering and site conditions I figure also effect lifespan.
I just hope to outlive mine don't care to get into pole repair
A couple things. These buildings, post frame, can be made to last 100+ years by pouring piers with anchored mounting brackets, like RR buildings does still minimal foundation cost compared to a full grade beam set up.
Also, a mid range water reducer is very well behaved and would either allow you a higher slump, or reduced water. They actually make finishing much easier due to how they enable better cream formation at the surface. For sure the high range water reducers, or super plasticizers, can be finicky and have some time issues. Too bad you can't run up and pour a few slabs with Mike Day.
I have used it a few times but it is like the plants around me are not sure how much to add and they are not quite there yet with plasticizers and the plants near Mike got it pegged to perfection. As far as the post frame buildings I wish they would build them like R R does it.
I would agree with the need for better building methods. I would agree the best way to do it is the same way R.R. Building does it. Your slab is still poured after so it's still a temporary building giving you a break on your land taxes. Why someone would spend $25 to $40K on a building that is only going to last 30 to 40 years is beyond me. They do make special pressure treated wood for Sub-grade construction. It's meant to be buried in the ground, but most places don't carry it on a regular basis it would have to be ordered.
As far as strength and not cracking the curb definitely helps but a properly prepared sub surface is key. You said he had brought in a huge vibratory roller. I'm sure that made a huge huge difference in strength. Thinking of giant buildings and sky scrapers the usually over excavate 20 to 40 feet below ground then start compacting in 3 to 6 inch lifts. Add several feet of heavily compacted stone. Your base material is what keeps it all stable and doesn't allow it to sink or twist. Love the videos have been a fan for years. Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge and tips.
Thanks for watching and leaving a interesting constructive and valuable comment. 👍@@chrislangdell117
You’re correct!
those post are very weak bolted to those brackets,the brackets will live thru it all set in concrete,the weak spot is the bolt in the post,the post was just weakened
"We pull our mesh up. We don't leave in on the ground. Look at my guys pulling it up with a rake." Then everybody WALKS ON IT & PUSHES IT BACK DOWN TO THE GROUND... LOL
The stone in the concrete holds up the mesh once it's pulled up. It may not be dead center of the slab, but it's not critical for this application.
Thanks @@bcrusher1979
Yeah they're being hacks, and they're not going to admit it... If they want to do the job right they'd use blocks so it was dead center in the middle of the slab; but they won't do that because they might trip and hurt their little pretty faces
@@bcrusher1979, LOL... the mesh gets stepped on; it lowers/sinks PERIOD.
Dobies or mesh/rebar chairs should be used & anyone begging to differ is a HACK...
If you had a clue about concrete you would know it is suppose to be in the bottom 1/3 of the slab on the tension side so as weight is put on the slab it resists cracking. In the middle of the slab the wire acts lie a hinge and slab cracks. Think about it before you make a foolish simple minded comment. @@xephael3485
I agree with you and built my workshop, which is the same 32x48 size as this one, using stud walls on the concrete slab. Modern treated lumber seldom lasts more than 30 years underground and I build things to last much longer than 30 years. My builder put the metal expansion joints in my shop floor and that saves having to cut the floor and makes a much smaller place for a crack. My floor has pex in it and has very small cracks alongside of the metal expansion joints, but is very smooth and easy to roll things over.
Awesome glad to hear you see the value of building something that will last 100 years instead of just 30.
@@bondobuilt386 i hope to be one of the “Dead Men” that Dan Holohan writes and speaks about in his books.
@@LTVoyager ya me too what an honor
Yet again, what does this show doing proper preparation majes the end product something you can be proud of. too bad we don't have a lot of that anymore
Love how you poured curb. Been wanting to try that my self.
Its a pain but looks like it worked good.
This guy really really prepped the base nicely and you pourned a great product and did a great job. So am i suprised it didnt crack not really you guys know your stuff.But it does amaze me that there are no hairline cracks at the corners.
Regardless of saying what the guy should have built--I appreciate someone storing their equipment inside a nice building instead of spread all over their land in a residential area or even rural area-and this guy has created an awesome well-organized shop inside.
That barn has got curb appeal !
LMAO GOOD ONE.
I’m not a fan of post in the ground either. Great job on the floor/curb. No cracks! Amazing
Thanks Wingman
Lot of pole sheds built that way out there, mine was built in the 70s. Morton and possibly others now put a concrete post in the ground and then attach wood above ground.
My buddy's shop concrete has very few cracks in the concrete after 30 years
Yup I do like how they are starting to use permacolums on the pole barns in some areas. way better to keep the wood out of the ground Andy.
Basically all concrete has excess water that contributes to the shrinking as it evaporates. I think the biggest factor is that you're pouring it stiff and you have 7 guys. The prep, thickness, and mesh helps as well of course. I've poured plenty of slabs that never cracked even though they were way bigger than a normal saw cut grid. I aim for .44 W/C ratio through use of plasticizers. Lots of guys are using 50% more water than that.
Nice work. Could almost roll a cue ball across it. That conveyor truck sure works good.
Thanks and yes what a time and labor saver that truck is.
Proper compaction of the base and good concrete mix without adding water is likely why you had no cracks. Basically the concrete did not settle, and did not shrink which causes cracks.
For even better crack control, increase the wire size, and overlap your wire at least 1 square, and use chairs to raise the wire to the mid of the slab instead of pulling it up after. Plasticized concrete will also allow better flow instead of adding water.
Another detail I insist on is to do a spray on curing sealer right after the final finish is done. The curing sealer will harden the surface properly and prevent pondering in the future.
Wow that is impressive. I really like how yall did that.
Looks good. Another nice job.
Thanks Scott
Very Nice Work looks great
Thanks John
Wish I would have had your videos 25 years ago. Poured a 18x22 slab with a friend that said he knew how. The concrete truck driver tried to warn us about too much mud in the middle. Our stabbed together 2x4 screed bowed so we crowned it. Then waited too long to trowel it so my buddy said how about a broom finish? I was clueless so sure sounds good. I had to shopvac the sawdust in that shop. Could not sweep the dust on that floor. Live and learn.
Down south we pour flatwork with curb walls or drop walls on a regular basis it takes more hands on . And a couple men on knee boards, we pull the form , finish the curb and the flat work as we go.
Love the high curb, mine's 8" and sure is handy 👍😎✊
I'm going to do this on the new shop/hanger!
Not a bad idea it added strength thats for sure.
A major factor in a successful PCC Slab is the type of sub grade material your building on as well as its compaction and preparation, including base rock. Concrete type, temperature, slump etc etc are also important factors as well as shape. Eventually it will show cracks regardless of even most reinforcement. Great job and great crew sir. Keep everyone well and safe.
Thank you and I agree with all you say. I think shape for sure is a major factor. The slabs with blots of corners are impossible to keep from cracking off those inside corners when the slab shrinks.
I like the way Mr. Post Frame does them. Set on concrete piers and then a kind of strong tie set in the concrete. No exposure of the wood to dirt or concrete. I don't work for Mr. Post Frame.
I've seen that. A galvanized stirrup etc. set into a buried concrete pier, and bolt the upright wood into that. Avoids the rot etc.
Much better way to do it for sure.
Yes much better keep the wood above ground. @@VenturiLife
The ends of the poles are covered with water proofing, therefore they’ll last a lot longer than you think. To add, we use Eastern Red Cedar poles.
Your job looks good.
Thank you
Considering that I'd wager it will certainly be around ready to use in 2124, so long as the roof is kept in good shape.
@@ethanlewis1453 I’m sure it will be around longer than I will. My Dad built this shop to last. I’m glad I talked him into insulating it too. My Dad passed away on 1/25/2019 at age 83. He was a great man.
14 years ago I poured a 30x30 with a belly. Its framed with 2x6s deeper in the middle. no cracks
I use to work with crews like this, everyone is an expert. Now I do the same thing by myself ( I had my cousin help on a three bay garage last time). It will crack without inserts or saw cuts just give it time.
the bottom of the 6x6's have a coating on them to keep the poles from rotting at the bottom. its like a black tar like coating. well, at least i know you can get them like that, and not sure why someone wouldn't.
The ones used in our area do not have the coating.
That slump looked less that 5" to 6", I think more like 4". With some air entrainment, that is probably why no cracking. Slop concrete is easier to screed, which is why contractors often have the trucks add water to the mix before pouring. When I was inspecting, I would do slump test at the site and not allow adding water unless the slump was far out of spec. I would reject trucks delivering slop and even not certify a pour if concrete was out of spec. Contractors knew not to pour slop when I was on the job.
I bet all the crews hated you for it, too!
my ground is all shale and iv done a 45x50 57yards 5000psi w fiber no wire or rebar an no cuts and its not cracked will be 15yrs in may. also did the driveway 50x30 10yrs no cracks but I did a 16x28 for my machine shop and I put 4 inch 2b stone under it and 1/2 rebar 3500psi 20yrs ago and it cracked in less then a year so I just save money and do just concrete here. thanks for sharing
@@Sokolov812-lz5ov interesting. Probably some solid ground on that shale.
Nice job bondo. I like how you kept the power trowel in the back. I assume cuz no other doors and back side would be going off first being poured first. Good thinking. 👍
Nice job!
I'm looking into the use of Geofoam under slab. It is very effective in ground stabilization, I imagine it would do great for crack prevention along with Helix 5-25 admixture.
I always wonder how Geofoam holds up with ants. Here in NC ants love foam. Curious to hear your experience & thoughts about it, thank you.
ive used short chairs and had no trouble running barrows. at least i know the mesh ends up higher in slab rather then getting trodden down by the screeders.
Peter what kind of rebar chairs did you use? Thanks.
I do like the curb idea ! My barn doesn't have that and i wish it did. Mine is 6" "4800psi over 4" of pea stone due to solid clay substrate, has a shallow rat wall mono-pour around the edge, 12" x 12" deep at the doors , wire, plastic sheating and expansion fiber around the posts (Mid Michigan winters) i saw cut it & kept it damp for a month. It's now 20 years old, had fork trucks cars, CNC machines on it and only have a few very thin cracks but it hasn't spread or lifted.
I don't care for the concrete against the steel corrugated siding. Now the curb has corrugations in it and if the siding needs replaced due to rust from the concrete and moisture (which it likely will) the new siding will need to match and be placed exactly the same. Not your build and not the way I'd do it is all.
I like your work ! Wanna come do my driveway ?
I have done a couple of jobs where we used Ductilcrete where the only control joints were 60 foot on center. Definitely crazy to see that large of an area with no saw joints or cracks.
All those buildings in our area use perma-columns it is a concrete post that is connected to the wood post by a steel bracket. That’s makes it a forever barn
Our shop 32x56 was built in 2014 and not a crack in it to this day. Six inches concrerete rebar and fiber mesh, 8 inches sand and 2 inches foam. and in floor heat.
when i put poles in the ground i spread a layer of tar on them . if they are for a fence i continue extra 6 inches higher than concrete with the tar .adds a lot of years to the post
Its a good idea but I still prefer a stem wall of concrete or just build on a mono slab.
I have a 180m2 slab which is now 6 years old. I have compacted the ground and insulated it and I dont have a single crack. Its all about the prep if it cracks or not.
I agree it is most important what is under your slab.
Nice work ! I had a 20 x 40 ft I also did not want saw cut. I thought the 18" thickness, yes 18", would save me. but no two cracks developed about a year later
Kept in the cool and out of the sun
For sure
Where's the tuna been? Looks good Bondo 👊👍🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Tuna moved on. So did Roy LOL We now have Dustin(THE GOFER) 😀
In the Chicago area, we call this a rat wall. Its usually not done with the structure in place, usually the walls anchor to the top of it. Not a new idea, mostly seen on the garages one builder did in the 40's/50's. Never thought about it, but I'm sure your right about the wall and cracking... Most of those I've see are still intact from the 40's.
Cool thanks for sharing that. Evidently it added a bunch of strength too
Down south they can add metal under the walls and called rat wall or stop
My last pour was a pole barn as well. I stood in the barn during the pour and would not let the men spreading to get the driver to turn his water hose on. Pissed everyone off however I have no cracks even with my 55000 lb Motorhome parked on it. Dry is better, more work for everyone but well worth it.
what about cutting wedges to get the angle on the curb form boards
Nice work 🤙
Thank you
For your curb detail take some 2x4 or 2x6 material the same length as your form lumber and rip up some strips at a 45 degree angle. Then tack them to your form boards so you can remove them later when cleaning up. Wrap them up in a bundle so they don't warp all over the place until the next use. At least then you can hand finish under the edge before pulling the sides. Bob's your uncle.
Yes Bob is my uncle. Thanks for the tp.
Looks great!
Hey nice work It’s nice you have good reliable people. I live in Jersey and wish my town would OK a Monolithic slab so I can build a garage. I’m thinking Pole Barn because they allow it and it 1/3 cost of garage with full dug footings and block.
He should have put pex in the slab for heat. That is the best decision I made on my shop. Very inexpensive to heat and very comfortable to work in during the winter. I keep the thermostat at 65 and it is very comfortable for working.
He had us do it in his house but wanted to use his waste oil furnace in the shop.
@@bondobuilt386waste oil boiler with in floor heat would have been the best option. Sense he wants to be able to burn used oil. Best of both scenarios.
Ya I agree but he had the furnace from his old shop. I love my radiant in my garage. @@kevink4914
I'm replacing a haybarn with similar pole-barn construction built in 1971. The posts completely rotted 10 years ago and I propped up the barn in 2016 with self-built laminated posts set 4' in the ground and 2' inside of the original posts. These new posts..with new treated lumber are already rotting. A windstorm last year took down about 40% of the 36 x90 structure. Our 40x60 machine shed which is all metal and built about the same time is still going strong. Even though it was a very cheap low grade kit. If it wasn't hit by tractors and equipment over the years it would still be in very good shape.
I'm going with the 2" square tubing ladder frames and trusses every 4'. Will never consider a pole barn again. Just too much maintenance over the years and wood bees love to bore holes in all of that wood. Tempted to build a deep stem wall for the foundation instead of a concrete slab with thick concrete around the edges.
Heating the building is definitely going to reduce the chance of getting any cracking. I live in Canada and would definitely cut it though I understand why he didn't want it. Nice job.
Thanks and I agree.
Nice work
Thank you
It's because he compacted the base so well, for long term crack prevention. Short term shrinkage cracks is all about having the right w/c ratio.
I have a 6" 2400sf slab as well in a shop building. I had one crack show up after 2 years. It's a post building. I'll take the saw cuts any day over that hairline crack. With the saw cuts, wheels roll over them easily and for the "dirt accumulation." They're either filled with dirt making them flush, or as I did. Sweep some sand in them and then run a line of Tremco 45 SSL over them. They basically disappeared. The hairline crack on the otherhand is almost impossible to fill and make it look nice.
I have to agree. You could sponge some tile grout in the cuts also.
Hypothesis:
* Must be those wooden vertical support columns that go 4 foot into the ground, along with the concrete "curb" that you added, keeps the entire slab from moving and creating any large cracks.
* I don't remember if you stating if the owner installed any insulation "under" the slab but I remember you stating that he compacted the soil really well.... and all of those elements together must be combining to keep the slab from shifting and creating any cracks... which is incredible... especially in the colder areas of NY.
* I grew up in Western NY close to Olean.... and I know how cold it gets!
* I also built some concrete porches with my Father.... AND we had a concrete lawn ornaments business (ie: urns, water-fountains, religions statues and animals statues etc) so I have "a little" experience with concrete.
Great tips and feedback... most appreciated.
Amen
Retired, Veteran
First truck I’ve seen that pours over the cab.
They work so much better than the rear loaders.
It can be done. The hangar where I work was poured in 2005 and there aren't any stress cracks in it anywhere., which is what you'd expect for a slab with a 737 parked on it for days and weeks at a time as they go through maintenance.
I saw and heard you commenting about pulling the wire up after the concrete was poured, but does it not get pushed right back down when the guys walk all over it? While this concrete hasn't cracked yet, if the wire is pushed back down, would braced rebar not be better long term to prevent separation if and when it does crack? I wonder if the building itself works as a pooling system to hold expansion to a minimum.
Nice Job it turned out great. I like the curb poured between the posts, great for keeping the critters out and power washing the floor. Would wrapping the posts with tar paper help to keep the concrete from pulling the moisture out of the posts and prematurely dry rotting them?
I've watched many slabs being poured, metal trowels leave the concrete the smoothest and almost seal it. I've also worked in a shop with metal trowel finish and sealer applied. With the correct shoes and watching where you walk you hardly ever slip. Clean up is also very easy. On driveways I've watched finishers use wooden trowels. This leaves the concrete with a nice anti slip finish which is also easy to keep swept off. The worst I've seen is the broom finish. It is the roughest finish and hardest to keep swept off. It seems like you can never sweep the dust off of it and it's the easiest to damage by scraping something on it.
Do you still offer a wooden trowel finish better yet does the power trowel have an option for wooden paddles?
How does the wire mesh stay suspended in the concrete after lifting when multiple people walk over it pushing the wire back to the bottom?
We tiptoe on it so it barely goes down. Im still trying to figure out how to pour these floors without actually walking on them. LOL
I had a 30'x36' 6in slab poured a few years ago. Our ground prep work was the same. 1/2" or 5/8" rebar 2ft on center with x4 in the footer. I put about x100 3in blocks under cross connections. Just broken off pieces from some large pavers. I'm sure it was annoying for the finishers, but i know that my rebar is fully incased and I didn't need to overdo the amount of rebar. I still have no cracks. We don't have freezing temps much, but the building is about 4ft above sea level next to tidal water. @@bondobuilt386
I wish you would have shown the removal of the curb forms.
I have another video where we did it too.
my dad has a floor in his garage like this, not quite as long, but pretty big. Extra thick slab with wire. Poured in the early 80s. Still no cracks
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Bondo, I know you mentioned you didn’t want to rip your form boards. Maybe a 45 piece could have been added to the bottom if it was a big deal. Probably wasn’t. Still turned out nice !
Thats a good idea. 👍
Still doesn't make sense to me as far as just sticking the main poles in the ground. The building may be cheaper, but he obviously spent a wad for the concrete and the spray foam. How much more would it have been simply to put some of those pre-made forms and concrete them in with some water proofing afterwards? Or even just something to coat the wood and/or provide a barrier and make it last even longer. And why not pour the curb first and then the slab? With the weight of the vehicles he's running I also think the owner should have had you guys pour maybe a short slab in front so he wouldn't chunk out the front edge of the barn slab. All just my opinions of course.
I agree with much of what you say.
Don't worry, it will crack eventually. Like all things concrete expands and contracts. Without expansion joints being installed in a slab of this size, it will crack.
It might?
I'm so glad dams and the Chunnel don't know this.
If the forms were made of rust or rot proof stuff & left in place after the pour? Would that help to minimize cracking by keeping the slab or podium deck inside a box, eliminating expansion space?
no box would stop concrete from moving but concrete actually shrinks as it dries. frost will lift it if it gets under an unheated slab in wet slow draining soils
Wow! That’s crazy. No cracks with all that equipment
I thought i recognized those county names, im from lowville ny originally
I snowmobile in Montague and Barnes corners and Lowville. Small world.
The cracking in slabs is often caused by shrinkage, not expansion like many believe. The purpose of saw cuts is to put those cracks from shrinkage in beneficial locations. This is why saw cuts have to be made relatively quickly (within 12 hrs) of the placement. With proper moisture management you can help eliminate some of the water loss that leads to too much shrinkage. It's tough to manage consistently just do to the variable nature of concrete and the elements. Obviously you can get cracking due to poor compaction of the subbase but a lot of cracks later in life are just the growth of the hair line cracks formed from the first couple days of curing.
and thats where they will have cracks show later on this LOL
The only thing I would do differently is, I would have the owner buy a case of automotive undercoat, in spray cans, tape the siding and the posts and give them a good heavy coat. It will prevent the post rot from the concrete, and stop the lime from eating the siding up. That must be an Amish building the new pole barns use piers with galvanized brackets set at grade to hold the posts, they don’t bury the posts in the ground anymore, just for the reasons you stated keeping them out of the concrete. In this case with the curb, he still would have had to coat them to keep the rot at bay. You probably knew all this, just my observation, I enjoy your content every video. 👍👌
Agree with doing something to keep the concrete/lime from eating that metal siding. But pole barns are still built every day with 6x6’s buried in the ground. I’m not a fan of the idea either but I’ve yet to see one that needed to be rebuilt due to the post rotting.
@@AllstarVentures Yeah, they are but my experience is, usually by the Amish crews, they do a good job, but are pretty old school in some of their practices. Can’t ask for harder working folks, they do get it done. I did a pole barn type of addition on my garage, I made my own brackets so the 6x6’s didn’t have to go in the ground, the piers were over code at 5’ deep, I have no rot, anywhere.
Just curious. I am in Akwesasne, one town past Massena Ny. Been watching your videos for years n never realized you were so close to me.
Two years into a 50x40 shop 4" thick, saw cut it 1.5" about 3Xs in both directions, so not very many. Using 3000psi, wire mesh & mico fiber, the thing dosen't have one crack so far. 29PALMS USMC live range is about 10mi away & we're shaken ALL the time!
I've used micro-fiber on several patios, garages & additions, almost never experience a crack!
I am not a concrete guy but I have a question. It appears the rebar is not elevated. Does that cause cracking and Spaulding on the underside of the slab, which could eventually propagate to the surface?
there is no rebar in this slab just wire mesh and we lifted it as we poured with potatoes rakes.
Ok, I'm one of those naysayers that just doesn't believe that the occasional lifting of that wire mesh is sufficient. I see, where you first mention how you do it that yes you lift it and it sure does look like that mesh is floating in the bottom 1/2 of the concrete ( at that moment ).
However, when I stop the video at let's say 15:35 I see 5 guys standing on/in that concrete on top of that mesh you're telling me that without chairs that mesh is going to pop back up?
In the foreground of that time stamp it looks like that mesh is almost flat on the ground.
The WET PAD was cool. I was wondering on large slabs how do you verify the proper slope across the entire slab.
You said you added a little air to your mix..just curious on how much added..thanks
No cracking in that is amazing. Just cement? (no fly ash or slag)? The curb is not the reason - it is probably mostly because of really good sand gradation. You have a really good supplier. Pouring inside helps.
yes no fly ash in there mix. yes no sun beating on it either and yes it was on compacted sand.
@@bondobuilt386 Thanks and also for your video. I meant the sand particle size gradation in the concrete, if it isn't really good you need more water to get to the same slump. If that big slab didn't crack, it was perfect.
Oh I got ya. Makes sense. I know one time they got the wrong sand and I noticed it Immediately and called the plant They accidentally sent them sand from the wrong pile. It was traction control sand and they were like diamond size and started poping out when I machined it. What a pain. LOL@@SpaceCrete
I am a career concrete contractor , there are 2 kinds of concrete the kind that has cracked and the kind that hasnt cracked yet , when you dont put joints it will crack where it wants to and this slab in time most certainly will, for anyone to think differntly is complete ignorance. but I do agree , give the customer what they want, this wants uncontrolled cracks , may be 5-8 years down the road
Well I can guarantee 2 things. It won't catch fire and nobody will steal it LOL
Great work. You mentioned all these variables: 6" slab, 4000 psi with no plasticizers or extra water added, 5.5-6 slump, and a wire mesh that was lifted up. Do you think it's a synergy of all that, or is there 1 or 2 of those things that really prevented the cracking? Just wondering if this is possible with a 4" slab.