Thank you for suggesting this channel to people. I've been doing the same thing by telling people about your fantastic channel since I found it. I watched all your videos in one day and I'm doing the same thing here today with this channel.
@@sunsetman22 It's an ultimate consoomers paradise. Everything good in that film was either ripped off (not in the inspired sense) or had been done before. Starkiller Base? Yeah let's just take that characters name from the video game and the early drafts of ANH and slap it on there A soldier who deserts? While I do love the character of Finn in TFA, doesn't that seem a tad similar to Cut Lawquane from Clone Wars? And of course, the entire plot of ANH is just copypasted. Sure, the prequels borrowed some elements from the originals but that was done in a way that was still original and actually contributed to the story.. :/
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has been saying this for years. J.J. is to blame - he's a terrible storyteller. Rian Johnson is an excellent storyteller and director who was handled a bad story set-up by a terrible storyteller.
I still think TFA _could_ have been a great movie that created a structurally sound foundation to build a new trilogy on. But they didn't do that lol. If you look at the poster for the movie, divide it in your minds eye into two halves split down the middle. Then, cover just the right side and look at the left; doesn't look like Star Wars. But, if it cover the left side and look at the right... looks great, doesn't it? Han, Leia, Chewbacca, R2, and a new Jedi. THAT would have been a good movie. Instead, they ruined Han, trashed George Lucas and everyone who worked on the prequels, and exploited nostalgia to make money on a mediocre at best and offensive at worst product.
I really liked the double agent Kylo idea proposed here. It indeed made sense of a lot of things and made him the “incredibly interesting” character that so many people seem to think he is. Doesn’t fix the myriad of other issues the trilogy has, but it’s something. I’ll forever be disappointed we won’t get to see George’s story.
I think the reason so many people need to blame Rian Johnson for the ST's failure is that they don't want to admit to themselves that they were hoodwinked by TFA, that they were so desperate for new Star Wars they they cheered in spite of the film being essentially without substance. I thought it was a pretty good start, but then, when I bought it on Blu-ray, watched it halfway through, *stopped* for some reason and then even more astoundingly never felt the need to go back to it, I realized that it wasn't as good as I had initially thought (there are certain JJ-isms that I never liked, like the splitting laser beam that fires across lightyears or the way people zip around space in no time flat, like they are just driving down to the corner store). To this day, I've only seen TFA one and a half times.
Absolutely. People called me a fake fan 2015-2018 when I said I wasn't all that impressed by TFA. Just a bunch of setup for character arcs that is only good if harvested in the later episodes. Which wasn't done effectively. Luke goes through the hero's journey within episode 4, which is why they can't change the chronology of the OT when ripping it off, because it means Rey can't grow as easily/naturally as Luke did, resulting in her character being flat.
I was one of those that bought into the potential. I hated the stupidity and laziness that JJ had injected into so much of it - including the things you mentioned and so much more - but figured that he wouldn't be back and it was a good enough jumping off point that could be fixed by the next guy ignoring the stupid things. I didn't like the giant Pokeball Deathstar. A total lack of understanding (or caring) how seeing things in space works (I can accept some cinematic license, but he pulled the same seeing a planet in another part of the galaxy exploding that he did in Star Trek). I knew it was basically a retread but figured that wouldn't last past him. Etc. It's just continued to get dumber since then.
Eh, I hated it from the start. My family insisted we go see it Christmas 2015 and I could see immediately that it was just a bad rehash of Episode 4. But of course Rian Johnson is even more of an awful hack than JarJar Abrams.
@@cowboycurtis4944 Yeah, some people did see the badness of Disney Star Wars early, and even I found that once I brought the Bluray, I stopped halfway through and never felt the need to pick it up again, but the community at large was still mostly happy, pending how the series was carried forward. I guess I'd say it was still eminently recoverable at that point.
I have a theory that this channel was commissioned by Lucas himself so he could get it all out of his system without breaking his NDA. Of course, that's just a theory. But I quite enjoyed all 3 of these videos. Really great work.
👍😂😂😂 It would have been a genuine surprise is Snoke came back. Making Snoke hard to kill would have added to the tension of the final confrontation. Instead it was “Palpatine? Oh for f$&ks sake! Really!?!?! … Please don’t tell me Palpatine is Rey’s grandfather! … Oh, you have got to be kidding me. I’m laughing now because I can’t suspend disbelief any longer.”
@@tjejojyj 'Oh okay so her PARENTS are nobodies! That pleases the people who liked the Last Jedi ! Now , to please people who didn't like the Last Jedi , let's make her grandfather a somebody like ,maybe, .... PALPATINE! Done and dusted : we've saved the trilogy' But .... if her grandfather is somebody .. .then her parents are somebody! And so you dissapoint both parties! "You've failed me for the last time , Captain Abrams" :0
Watching this in 2024 and hearing you say, "I for one am glad he came back for nine, I think there's a very good chance he is going to fall flat on his face, and just maybe the audience will finally start to see him for what he is." HOLY COW, YOU WERE A PROPHET!!!
It’s amazing how much I allowed J.J. Abrams off the hook by blaming Ryan Johnson. I only started to pick up on this after watching Mauler’s analysis of the force awakens. Now that the first part of this series gives such a reasonable explanation for the film’s mess of a development, I’ve truly begun to understand how doomed this was from the start. Excellent video.
@@monotech20.14 MauLer directly said he liked the "How "How Star Wars was saved in the edit" was saved in the edit", and encouraged people to watch it. He was never much of an "anti-woke" - he tends to steer clear of politics in general, - and while he did make the make a lot of fun of Rian, it was pretty much always deserved. He made just as much fun of other directors and writers that did a poor job, in Star Wars and in other properties. I might also note that part of MauLer's critique of The Last Jedi is used in this very video above. Theory though, that guy's pretty much the ultimate representation of the average Star Wars fan. Very little willingness for critical thinking, trying to search for an easy person to blame and and easy person to venerate. And of course if there's a simple explanation of "woke makes it bad" he goes with it, because that means you don't need to think carefully about it, just scream "woke!" and feel happy.
God the vitriol and distain with which you present the idea of Rey being a Palpatine, only for that to be exactly what they ended up doing was just beautiful.
You have just given me an entirely fresh perspective on something I thought I was fully versed in. You've woken me up to a much darker reality than I could've ever imagined. And your predictions for The Rise of Skywalker were bang on the money. You have shown me a new school of thought, that, even with certain nitpicks I still have to work out, will happily subscribe to. I have been a fervent defender of George Lucas's Star Wars for maybe 1 1/2 years now. And it should've taken me a lot less time in order to wake up and appreciate the man. But I did know that from the start, Disney making a film trilogy with the premise of a recycling of the old would never work, and I waited with dread until TROS, when JJ delivered the final death blow unto the franchise, assuming it wasn't dead already. But it has really become clear how lost the franchise is without George putting one hand, hell, two hands on the wheel. It's become the bloated, decaying guinea pig of a bunch of blindfolded, sadistic hacks with no care for the mythology, storytelling, or passion that Star Wars should value. You've earned a subscriber, and honestly, I'd consider donating to any sort of membership you may or may not set up in the future, which I rarely ever do. I'm looking forward to what you do in the future!
The way I see it in retrospect is that this trilogy was a ticking time bomb waiting to implode on itself. How long can you keep a mystery until you disappoint the audience (ep 8) or run out of time to actually give satisfying answers (ep 9)?
1:36:13 - This is the best part of your video and demonstrates why the sequel trilogy fails. All throughout the 90s I was very pessimistic about the prequels because I didnt see why they would matter. What is the point of telling a story about a hero becoming bad? How is that inspiring? Because of the way Lucas made the movies he MADE them matter. During TPM I could tell right away this was meant to be the first part of a six part story. That's what made me love the movie right away in spite of my pessimism going in. The ST had an even more daunting task, but Disney and Abrams didnt seem to even care.
The main reason I'm perfectly confident in saying the prequels are inherently better than the sequels is simple; on paper, the prequels are conceptually sound. The problem with the prequels was never its ideas, but its execution of those idea. The same cannot be said for the sequels, they are simply built on bad ideas.
@@Harrinsain in my opinion the problem of prequels was this that their scrpts needed a little more rewrites and polish before filming them. The whole midichlorians and Anakin being the chosen one wasn't really that important to the story.(Since if you remove those ideas from the prequels and the story would remain the same.)
@@DaraG-sn2nj Anakin being the chosen one wasn't really that important to the story? Seriously? It made his arc even better imo as there was a push pull over whether or not he would or wouldn't destroy the Sith ('A prophecy that misread, could have been') only to prove his peers wrong in ROTJ
@@edwardelric603 "Ruining", yeah right. And about rotj, Marcia cheated on him and he had depression and wanted the movie production to end as soon as possible, let's not forget that Ford and Fisher also arrived wasted at the set.
Honestly, having Rey be Han and Leia's long-lost daughter would've been such a better inclusion in the story. But because JJ is a hack who doesn't like it when his terrible "mystery boxes" are easily figured out, he decided to... wait for it... "SuBverT eXPectAtiOns" by making Rey a Palpatine. It's honestly insulting, just the cherry on top of the mountain of insults that is the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy.
@@TheIllcaster, and even then, the story is brought down on the very premise that the state of the galaxy is bad with a new Empire on the rise. Why? Why not make it so that the main antagonists are pro-Imperial insurgents fighting against the New Republic, who are working alongside the Jedi to crack down on, with Kira (I do not care for the Rey name) Solo being one of those Jedi fighting against Imperial remnants? That would make for a far more interesting story than the Original Trilogy shoddily repeated.
Thank you for disspelling this bullshit notion that the vague similarities that the Sequel trilogy's Luke had with George's version does not, in any way, mean that George's Luke would've been the exact same way. George's version would've worked; there's no doubt in my mind.
I have an announcement to make, everybody. We have officially reached our first goal of 1,500 signatures on the "Make George Lucas' Sequel Trilogy" petition. Thanl you to everybody who's signed so far, and thank you to everyone who's still commenting on this video after all these years. To anyone who still hasn't signed, click that link and help us get up to 2,500 signatures. Have a great day, everybody.
I think JJ and his "mystery boxes" highlight one of my biggest peeves when it comes to films: "Saving it for the next one" I had original thought this was only a problem in book-to-film adaptions but apparently it has infected all kinds of movies. Problem is in the case of those book-to-film adaptions the end product will be a box-office bomb, the studio would wash their hands of the franchise, and move on. No way that was going to happen, both the fans and Disney wouldn't allow it. Moral of the story: Don't write like a sequel is inevitable.
The funny thing is that JJ can't even write the third film of a trilogy without introducing more mystery boxes: The "I never told you.." scene between Finn and Rey, and also Lando's "well, let's find out" line towards Jannah.
What's interesting is how the media narrative when I google searched George's idea for the sequel trilogy have tried to link George's ideas with how the last jedi turned out.
Your instinct about LOST is completely right. That is literally what watching LOST was like. However, Abrams wasn't really that involved in LOST beyond its initial episodes.
A bit late, but Adam Driver's interview with Rich Eisen has confirmed Nerdonymous skepticism regarding Johnson "ruining" Abrams' plan, at least regarding Kylo's character arc. Driver explicitly stated that Abrams changed course in Rise and that while Johnson took it into a different direction, it still tracked. It's at 17:54 exact.
We now know , thanks to Adam Driver that Kylo wasn't supposed to be redeemed and go back to the light side of the Force. So in TLJ , Rian Johnson didn't ruin Luke ,in that way anyway when Luke said he can't save Kylo. Again IT WAS JJ'S FAULT. The whole trilogy being shit is JJ's fault. Its JJ's fault. It was his idea to not use Lucas's story, it was JJ who put Luke away on an island and it was JJ's fault to change Kylo at the last 30 mins of epi 9. Not to mention bring back Sidious.
@@monotech20.14Wow, so Ryan's Luke would've been correct about not being able to save him? JJ also ruined the entire Star Wars saga by undoing Anakin being the chosen one.
@@imnotusingmyrealname4566 JJ is a HACK and got lucky. BTW wouldn't Luke of all people know who can and can not be saved? Remember in RotJ Luke says "I can feel the conflict within you". Its a lot better than Kylo changing 15 mins before the end of the movie.
I feel bad for every actor, they got involved in a fan fiction of the director who did not really care for their careers and only cared about his version of Star Wars. The saddest thing is that many Star Wars fans think the same way, doesn't matter what films they like, they love Star Wars for what it could be and not because of what it already is.
@@orlandofurioso7329, indeed. Those people deserve to have acted in an actually good Star Wars trilogy, one made according to the vision of George Lucas. Not the dogsh*t fanfiction spewed out by Jar Jar Abrams and Mr. Bubblehead Johnson.
It’s beautifully ironic that ROS did exactly what Nerdonymous criticized fan theories for; revealing Rey’s lineage in a way that is shocking, but doesn’t change or advance the narrative in any way. JJ’s mystery boxes really are just for the sake of mystery, not the story.
32:12 Unless I'm mistaken, didn't they reveal Palpatine's return in Fortnite? Not that this invalidates your point, if anything it just confirms how poorly JJ handled the story.
@@billmcdermott9647 But that makes no sense. Any nuance that could have been there was lost and never used. Watch their confrontation scene. How does Palpatine being her grandpa have anything to do with the scene. Does it add anything to the scene? Does Rey hesitate because he is her grandpa? No, it doesn't. It adds literally nothing
@@officialmonarchmusic but this Jj so it’s probably him trying to ape the Vader reveal because it is as you say…..she treats him as just another villain rather than her only living family. He is a barley alive wreck and you could have had her try to offer compassion but he rejects it,…seeing as the weakness found in all Jedi It’s trying to give them connection but it rings hollow because you never believe she will join him nor does she encourage him to let go of his greed
@@billmcdermott9647 There is a difference between "Join me and we can rule the galaxy as father and son" and "join me and I will possess you and I promise your friends will be OK even though I am the one in control". Whatever merit there is there has nothing to do with him being her grandfather. No nuance is there at all. Palpatine is more "the dude who had my parents murdered" than her actual grandfather. They had this stupid reveal for literally no reason other than for shock value. What a waste
@@officialmonarchmusic, exactly. It's like Nerdonymous said. The idea that Han and Leia were Rey's father and mother and Kylo was Rey's brother who killed her father right in front of her works so much better for the story. I'd still argue that with J.J. at the helm, it wouldn't have been very good, but good god, it would've been SOMETHING. ANYTHING than what we got.
I think shitting on JJ AND Rian is the proper solution to most of these arguments. They both equally shit the bed. It's all terrible, and disney itself is truly to blame.
I mean, If this series is correct in it's assertions of JJ's active involvement in lucas' story being refused, and the last jedi being what it is to save JJ's mystery boxes, then I feel like the blame that Rian got for his incompetence is highly disporportionate for the blame that JJ and disney as a whiole got for their active attempts at making the trilogy what it is. Rian is not innocent (far from it) , but the blame should not, as I see it, be distributed equally, as if they were both equally responsible for what ended up happening
@@spritingk6879, oh yeah. Rian deserves hate only for the terrible ideas in his own movie, and nothing more. J.J. deserves hate for the entire trilogy.
Man JJ really put Johnson in a tough spot. Johnson had to make sense and move forward with logical explanations for everyone in last jedi. It makes sense he didn't bother explaining anything and just justified a few plot points.
Yeah. I figured out this before Episode IX came out and then I realised, f*ck this, I will not pay more money for this. I haven't seen that train wreck. I know what it is about and I am glad about it hahaha.
As soon as I heard JJ was going to direct TFA I knew it was going to be a mess because of what he done to Star Trek. Then he was executive producer for TLJ I knew Star Wars was done. Then when he was called back for TROS I knew I was going to be into nothing but sheer disappointment. If Steven Spielberg wasn't JJ's godfather, then JJ would be the #1 BS video uploader on UA-cam instead of having any meaningful screen credits to his name. These two videos should be required viewing for all film school students on how NOT to do a movie. Hopefully you'll get the millions of views these videos deserve because you clearly put everything into context and in chronological order which clearly places the blame of the sequel trilogy's failure in JJ's lap. I think we all know that a long-dead desiccated remains of a cat named Schrödinger is in JJ's mystery box.
Like you I also knew there was going to be a huge problem for Star Wars after the catastrophic and stupid Star Trek of 2009. But I didn't think it was going to be handled this badly. Even if it's very sad, it will have the merit to show that Abrams is one of the worst incompetent of the movie industry. And show that Lucas had done a good job with the prelogy and that it is necessary that his version of the sequels be shot.
You know it's bad when TLJ fans like Patrick Willems are predicting based on Felicity that Abrams would fumble Episode IX. About the most sensible thing he's ever said.
You know what's funny? Rey and Kylo's relationship change mirror Leia and Luke's relationship change in the OT. In the original trilogy, Luke and Leia weren't supposed to be blood related but due to changes in plans their relationship switched to being brother and sister. In the sequel trilogy, Kylo and Rey were suppose to be brother and sister but due to changes in plans they ended up not being blood related. Their kisses feel forced and awkward for different reasons.
@@t6kr958it does rhyme but it’s like an awful simile because it’s purely rhythmic for the sake of repetition rather than using established motifs for actual nuance and care into the mythos. Look up “Every Time Star Wars Quotes Star Wars” by Rick Worely. Instead of reading the ring theory Lucas himself answers the question of the need to be repetitive. Lucas said that he likes to tell a story and retell the same plot in various styles. The man was discredited from actually giving nuance because Star Wars is solely meant to be fun for the loud mouths that lack actual film literate opinions…
Absolutely! He obviously understands these movies like few other people do. Check out the channel So Uncivilized for similar expert analysis of Star Wars. Both channels have pointed out things I've never heard or thought about and that's rare at this point. I've watched so many of these videos I've heard just about everything.
These 2 videos are the best I've seen over the last couple years discussing the Disney sequels. Not just senseless name calling and anger but actual rational and well thought out look into the convoluted mess that are the sequels. Great stuff
"I know I'm not alone in this, but it was common knowledge before The Force Awakens open that Disney had rejected Lucas's sequel trilogy storyline, and although there certainly were some, there were not many fans expresing there displeasure, and after Force Awakens opened, there were not many more. The rejection of Disney sequel trilogy as fanfiction is a more recent thing, which tells me that most fans don't care if the sequel trilogy is fanfiction, they just dont like this specific fanfiction they're getting" The best phrase of this video, and very accurate. And I include myself. Now I see that I was wrong like all those fans.
Yeah I wasn't tbh, I was hyped until I learned that fact. When I saw the movie, I saw the corporate sludge and knew fans would eat it up. The prequels were always as good as the OT to me, genuinely a masterclass in film making. They made mistakes, but so did the OT. I've hated the boomer prequel hate train ever since I first saw people shitting on it online, like all of the criticisms were just an excuse to shit on them for not being the same as the OT, and I knew those same fans would eat 7 up. It hurts me even to this day that people are just now loving the prequels as they should be and that it took people so long to realize how terrible Disney handled Star Wars. I should feel happy to be proven right, but it's just depressing
Rey should have been Han and Leia’s daughter from the very beginning. No mystery box. Just be up front about it. This is the story of the GRANDCHILDREN of Anakin, with the OT characters playing a vital role in passing the baton onto this next generation. Star Wars is a generational story. As Lucas put it: the father, the children, and the grandchildren. That’s what it should have been.
Problem is, you would have had to actually tell a story in that instance. That's not what Abrams or Disney wanted: Just play on nostalgia, and don't make any decisions that could put off certain fans. You can study this approach to a tee in The Mandalorian. It's nothing but a fanservice orgy. "Do you remember that guy? Or this droid? Or these seismic charges?" And yet peopld go crazy over it. It's a shame 🙈
"B-but wut about muh mystery box?" 😵💫 You're bang on the money. It should have been about the grandchildren and served to recontextualize the wider story like the prequels :0
Just had the previous part recommended to me, and it was great. Have now seen both parts, and they are criminally underrated. Keep up the great work :)
The idea of kylo being some kind of cold pragmatist breaking a few eggs to bring down the first order could have been great. They could have played with the idea of when doing unethical things for ethical reasons begins to cross the line into inhumane ir even evil. Kylo could have been like every American politician who gets into office for the "right" reasons but end up voting against the interest of the people in order to curry political sway for other policies they hope to push through. How many unnecessary wars can one vote for before passing a bill people need is no longer ennough of a payoff? At the least, it would have been new territory for star wars.
That would have been very interesting... but it would've required creativity, storytelling talent, and genuine care for this franchise. All of which J.J. Abrams clearly lacks.
Great video. I’d be interesting if you made a Part 3 going into what happened behind the making of The Rise of Skywalker, and how JJ attempted to wrap up the slog he invented
What really gets me so disappointed in the Sequel Trilogy is all the talented actors, passionate artists working on practical effects, so many people who love Star Wars getting an opportunity to work on a film and put their own mark on one of the greatest fictional universes ever created. I'm sure the higher ups working at Disney like the franchise, after all the original trilogy are excellent movies and there's a lot of money to be made into pumping out a several films per year in the way the MCU does things.
It hurts even more when you realize how disappointed they all were. Boyega, Isaac, Hamill, Ridley, so many of the lower level cast and crew HATED the films. They felt like they were a part of something silly, pointless, or just bad. It's so fucking sad
@@Jiub_SN, yeah. When you hear the cast and crew of the Original and Prequel Trilogies praising and defending Goerge Lucas to this very day, while the only reason J.J. hasn't been dragged through the mud by his cast and crew is pressure from the House of Mouse... it's just sad.
Great video! Finally someone exposes the scope of JJ's incompetence. If I had two free wishes for the future of Star Wars (besides the obvious "give the franchise back to its creator"), they'd be: 1. Don't bring back any more dead characters! 2. Don't bring back JJ Abrams!
I find it abit poetic, but I wouldn't say no to bringing back Palpatine one more time, only properly ending him this time, and ending the sequel hexology in a satisfying way. It'd be almost an exact mirror of when Palpatine was brought back in the EU, fans hating it, then bringing him back again to properly cap the story and not leave Palpatine being able to return again. I'd probably prefer to see a new generation of characters though, I'm basicallt shot of this set.
This whole new cinephile underground rebellion/Star Wars counter culture movement pioneered by Rick Worley, Nerdonymous, So Uncivilised Style is Substance, Anomaly Inc. - hell even Star Wars Theory at this point - and so on, is the greatest underground internet movement I have ever had the joy of seeing. It feels so amazing to finally have people who actually know their cinema on more intricate and historical, literal level, make defence videos of the Prequels and George Lucas as a whole; these whiney Prequel haters have tried to make us Prequel fans and George Lucas appreciators feel small and dumb for decades, but now to see those people finally get countered - by film fans who actually watch cinema beyond action films of the last 40 years: it's a beautiful and uplifting sight to see.
It feels weird seeing all of the names you mentioned there together, considering from what I've seen of the ones I've seen, they aren't all telling the same story, there's a few who I've seen something of or interacted with that did something that made me not want to see more of them, and the only one of these people who I still mostly come out with a positive impression of after watching more than one video from is Rick Worley. I don't think it should be a controversial statement that a lot of Star Wars fans can be extremely toxic, and that this is easily visible online, and while for most of these creators I wouldn't say I've directly seen them doing or saying anything vile, there somehow manages to be something somewhere in something I see from them online that has me wondering at bare minimum, what spaces are you in that have you saying this or showing this? Because there are certain narratives and viewpoints that are extremely prominent in some of the worst circles of the community (if they are products of them or fundamentally inseparable from them) that manage to find their way into, or at least hint as being somewhere in some of these. Or in the case of this specific video, the creator for some reason chose to include a clip from E;R of all people, which only really tells me that at some point they actually watched videos of theirs, and didn't think they sucked enough to be a person they're better off ignoring. I don't remember everything that had me wondering "why was this said," but I do remember in the first part this video's creator for some reason referred to Abrams as (not in their view) "Jewish superman," and that's really weird in conjunction with actually including clips from someone like E;R. Also many weird variations of vague reasoning for why certain decisions have been made with regards to the sequels, often attributing them to Disney as if there's any reason to believe they had anything to do with actual decisions being made creatively outside of deadlines and budget decisions (this video is not guilty of that in particular). But some of the things different creators mentioned here might say with regards to the sequels might not explicitly contradict each other, but it seems weird to me that anyone would believe the different things said simultaneously.
Actually, remembering who Style is Substance is, I actually kind of like them too (from what I've seen anyway), but haven't seen their Star Wars related anything yet.
Ok you sound kinda whiny yourself though, and if those critics made you "feel dumb" and you weren't able to counter them in text form or idk, doesn't that mean that you... were kinda dumb? Also Rick Worley has made some incredibly flawed arguments in support of PT and SE - for all his knowledge about film allusions, his textual understanding of plot points etc. seems below average. So rallying around him is not a winning position; and Nerdonymous' ST negativity gets irrational at times as well, plus he's apparently got blindspots about how internally consistent the "1-6 saga" is.
5:39 oh my gosh, it took me WAAAAY too long to figure out "Solana" is just "SOLo" and "orgANA," like "Kylo" is "sKY" and "soLO" That... that _feels_ like the dumbest shit I've ever herad, but I might just be in a hard mindset... but boy is that stupid. And Yeah, that means Rey was totally going to be Ben's sister.
Honestly the idea of Rey being a solo, us not knowing until the end of episode 8 where kylo is like "You knew it the moment you met him... But you don't want it to be true... You don't want it to be true that the father you've waited your whole life to meet died in front of your eyes... Yes... He was your father... And I am your brother." With episode 9 being about learning of how Luke/kylo wiped people's memories and hid Rey away and her dealing with this family, connecting with Leia, etc... Would have been much better than what we ended up with.
The media story surrounding post-prequel Star Wars wants to paint a picture of George Lucas as a failure and JJ Abrams as a visionary, when the actual truth is the other way around. The same old inversion of truth that they've been trying to pull for years now, and possibly since forever. The same capital-N Narrative that necessitates people believing "Orange Man Bad" or that "No Civil Rights Due To Pandemic" also wants you to believe George Lucas Raped Your Childhood and JJ Abrams Is A Visionary. Because true visionaries are incompatible with the world they are trying to build.
Hollywood (and that includes the corporate media that relie$ on it) never forgave George Lucas for gaining his independence. And they've been attacking his character ever since.
Just watched this again. You are quite right that the ST ended with no major developments and Rey left to continue Luke’s journey. I wonder if Abrams was the only director they asked a number of times? Disney got what they wanted and they have probably just turned a profit on the investment, but they will be pissed a the drop in revenue for each successive film. There’s a documentary about the OT which implies Alan Ladd Jr. got fired from 20th Century Fox because, despite alone fighting to get the studio to back Lucas and all the money they made, the studio was pissed off they missed out on the lucrative merchandising profits! I’m sure it wasn’t just that but no doubt that played a role.
As someone who watched Lost when it was airing (the biggest nothingburger of a TV drama ever) and the two Star Trek reboot movies when they came out, I knew the Star Wars sequel trilogy was going to be garbage the moment they announced Abrams as director.
Honestly makes me feel a bit bad for Daisy Ridley. She seems like a fun and energetic person that's been shafted by Hollywood CEO/Director ego. Seems like a genuine excitement that should have been built upon, rather than stomped out. She's taken a fair brunt of the criticism from the fans, yet JJ seems to have come out (considering the mess he made) unscathed. The idea that Star Wars needs to be a "surprise" is nonsense that only somebody with a superficial understanding of the OT would think. Vader being Luke's Father was a surprise when the film released and is a decent revelation in the story but the prequels exist without any plot twists and people went to see those.
If you believe in the "Jar Jar was supposed to be a Sith" rumor, then this reveal would have been the twist had Lucas not wussed out because of fan backlash towards Jar Jar.
That's how I feel about pretty much all the actors involved. They're damn good and would have been perfect for the roles, but were let down by the Mouse.
So the key takeaway I got from this video is that Rey is the offspring of a passionate gay foursome between Qui-Gon Jinn, Darth Maul, C-3PO, and a jawa. The actual takeaway though is that Rey reaaaally should've just been Han and Leia's daughter.
The ACTUAL actual takeaway is that Rey should've just stayed as Kira Solo, and they should've stuck with George's Sequel Trilogy idea from the beginning.
14:32 they really heard george lucas say “it’s like poetry, it rhymes” and then refused to understand what that means because to them, there is no prequel trilogy, so they can just disregard that and refuse to see how the rhyme structure of star wars works.
Refused to understand? Maybe George is just too hard to understand. I don't know how many people even see there's any rhyme structure, the franchise has a reputation of just being fun adventure, not some deeply structured masterpiece.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о It becomes a deeply structured masterpiece when people actually sit and start to realize Star Wars is more than just cool laser sword fights and a ton of "pew, pew, pew" onscreen. The problem is most Star Wars fans are cinematically illiterate, so when they actually have to analyze the films themselves and its story they are lost. Which is why the sequel trilogy was made the way it was made.
Since this video focuses so much on the family lineage aspect and Rey’s original parentage: One of the shittiest and not-at-all discussed aspects of losing the extended universe and incorporating elements loosely into this film was that Luke’s son in the original ‘sequel’ comics was named Ben, which makes way more sense than Leia and Han making their son that. They barely knew Ben/Obi-Wan Kenobi, why would they name their kid after him? It’s Luke who had the relationship with him!
Thank you for these videos. I’m glad you were upfront about The Rise of Skywalker as you made this prior to its release. These videos are so well written and put together. They’re some of the best rundown videos of what happened and likely happened regarding Disney’s Star Wars creation and production as well as to why George Lucas left and what was the very little stuff that they kept from Lucas’s treatments he wrote before they were primarily thrown out. You deserve more views and subscribers.
I think the point you make about TFA being all potential and no substance really reflects my own experience. When I watched TFA I thought it was alright, but I liked it less and less even by the time I got to the theater parking lot. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that while it had some enjoyable moments in isolation (for example, I liked BB-8 a lot but replacing R2 didn't make a lot of thematic sense), and it mostly aped Star Wars's aesthetics, it wasn't really a satisfying self-contained story. How good TFA was would depend on the rest of the ST. Then TLJ came out. My feelings on it as its own movie were strongly mixed. I liked some of it for being less of a retread, but even the best of these things were usually more deconstructive than constructive. If Kylo wasn't lying about Rey's parents then we feel like idiots for ever caring about this in TFA. And if he WAS lying we're no closer to the answer than ever. Neither alternative does any work to actually make TFA hit. It's now either a junk movie that wasted our time or the payoff is still up in the air. At that point I found it hard to imagine TROS would be able to solve the issue. I hoped it would defy all expectation and succeed, but it would need to put two or even three movies' worth of content into a single movie. And sure enough what we got was a movie whose pacing broke the sound barrier but still failed. We had been led on all along.
I had the same feeling after watching TFA. I was really hyped, because it was the first time I was watching Star Wars on big screen surrounded by other fans. But this first experience turned out to be not what I expected. I was in denial, I couldn't accept that Star Wars film can be just something average like any other blockbuster out there. I was stupid enough to watch it in cinema twice, on IMAX! Because I thought I missed something important from the first try. But this second time changed nothing, TFA had no story to enjoy, it showed nothing new, it felt just empty. It was wrong from the first seconds of reading the crawl. Where is the republic? How heroes from OT could allow this to happen? How is it possible that New order came out of nowhere? (as you can see, ST was ruined from the beginning) And I did it again when TLJ came out. I gave it a chance. And I regret I paid for this garbage! I was hoping to find the answers to all "mystery" in TFA. But this time I felt like I was scammed. I couldn't believe what was happening on the screen. I miss George Lucas. And I doubt that anyone can write stories and make films like he did. And I'm not blaming him for selling Lucasfilm, because it was the right thing to do for him and his team. He had to let it go to spend more time with his family. Family was always the main focus of Star Wars. I think we can learn something from it.
It is not just Lucas’s treatments they discarded for the sequel trilogy. Disney threw out all of the Extended Universe SW material that had been created over decades - everything from comics to novels to video games to toy lines. There were tons of stories, characters, and ideas that could have been either loosely or closely adapted, and Disney ignored all of it, creating instead a shitshow.
@kubli What the fuck does this comment even mean? There is so much good material in the extended universe, and the majority of the fans would have been happy to see Disney adapt some of it. The fact that we didn't get to see Luke training a new generation of Jedi on the big screen is simply criminal misuse of the property.
This guy looked at all the other Disney wars critiques, frowned, pulled down his weapons headset over his eyes and said, "target, maximum firepower!" And so we've gotten the deepest penetrating salvo at Disney's abomination.
The Han at the end of Return of the Jedi wouldn't abandon Leia, his entire arc was being someone willing to do anything to help his friends and TFA reverted him back to the start of A New Hope. Luke wouldn't give up on Kylo either. They didn't just subvert expectations, they crapped all over them and didn't know what they were doing.
I think Han and Leia were supposed to be the parents of Rey, but JJ Abrams had no clue how to reveal or explain that information, so Rian Johnson was stuck with trying to solve that mystery box.
Finally!! I felt pretty lonely saying that sequels were doomed by JJ in TFA. The entire setting was dumb to begin with plus JJs style of writing the middle of the story without any clue about the beginning or end and leaving that to future-JJ or whoever has to take care of whatever mess he left. However, RJ had the chance to bring coherence to the trilogy, but he chose not to. He chose to decorate the sinking ship beautifully instead of repairing and saving it. Ultimately however, Disney's insanity of pushing as much Star Wars content out in as little time as possible is really at fault. They had all the time in the world and they chose to be impatient. Almost like the mindset of a certain mystical group...
I was with you. I realized the moment they abandoned Lucas' plan and moved the date back that it was over. It would be a rush job and it was done by JJ Abrams. That was all I needed to know to not even see it on release, and when everyone seemed to like it I borrowed my cousins Blu-ray and realized I was so right. TLJ showed everyone, and somehow JJ got away Scott free even with ROS. I should feel vindicated, but I'm just so fuckin sad ab it
What I learned from this video is Rian is too honest a guy to act like JJ's BS wasn't BS, so he made a movie that was openly, brazenly BS right down to its title and laughed about it all the way.
The thing with the Vader twist in the original trilogy was that it wasn't information withheld (a Mystery Box) and then revealed because the audience wasn't expecting to be corrected on something they thought they already knew. You got information from Obi Wan Kenobi and you took it at face value, but the reveal came as a complete surprise. They even had to clarify it in Jedi because people didn't believe it. Rey's parents (as stated in the video) shouldn't have been a mystery to begin with. What's the point? It'll just be a watered down version of the Vader reveal. JJ plants seeds, but doesn't bother to water them in the narrative. Rian tried (I guess), but you just end up with blue ball syndrome and you either lose interest or build it up where the answer can't ever reach the hype. (Well having watched the whole video now it's pretty much summed up in there)
The fact that TLJ copy/pastes the major plot points of ESB was one of the things I hated most about it:: rebels must evacuate and are pursued through space; protagonist goes to remote planet for 'training' from reluctant master but leaves early to save friends; rebels visit affluent city and are betrayed by swindler type; antagonist asks protagonist to join forces after revealing details of family lineage; land battle with AT-AT walkers on white planet; defeated remnants of rebel alliance regroup for next movie...
How does this video not have more traction? Its incredible. Please please continue making more videos and promoting your petition. Its one of the best things ive seen in awhile
Absolutely brilliant. God, these videos make such a sad story on the surface so much sadder. Absolutely criminal that these videos do not have more views.
It feels like I’m seeing a Game of Thrones at work. Disney buys Star Wars, hires some potential directors; one director, JJ capitalizes to become the head of Star Wars to tell his vision and rule it as his own. When he fumbles with story telling, they have another director come in, Rian to direct the next movie, and while Rian is a pawn, Rian himself has his own ambition and visions so uses what was told of him and puts his own ideas further on how he thinks Star Wars is visioned Once he tanks, and the reputation is besmirched, Disney panics and JJ capitalized again to swoop in to “Correct” under the safety net that he’s course correcting, and is doing the best he can, knowing he won’t be as blamed and that he’s trying to “save” the series And in the aftermath, in capitalizes Kathleen Kennedy to step in to take over any future Star Wars under her message and ambition, and rule Star Wars her way with Disney backing her. Leaving Rian and JJ in the dust, until they find their own ways back in with whatever project comes next. JJ gets a pass, Rian is dishonored, Kathleen Kennedy is in a more reinforced dominant position, and the Disney corporation takes what profit it can get from the franchise being pulled apart and picked at, made into spin offs and retcons If this was fiction this would be fascinating, but it’s real………not so romantic when it’s happening in the present and future of the real world
... Gotta say, Kylo double agent is a good revelation, though as you seem to agree I don't think it makes much sense given what we see in the latter half of epVIII, even if in theory yeah he could just be roleplaying or lying. And yeah, no matter how (rightfully) hated Rian is, it's abhorrent that people believed epVII was somehow good or a good start, and how much time was needed for people to understand that JJ hacked the sequel trilogy from the get go, with or without epVIII
Amazing analysis. Opened my mind in so many ways. I’ve always been accepting of George Lucas’s story no matter what, it’s his story nobody else’s. I knew disney would distort Star Wars. Thank you Sir.
Well, unfortunately he decided to sell his story to Disney for a fuckload of money. So if it started as his it definitely isn't anymore. And ultimately I'm most annoyed with him. When you make art, even if it's shit (prequels), you keep working at it. You don't take money to compromise on your vision the way he did and then feign surprise when they shit on your work.
@@schwartzschild2908 I mean, most if not all of the money went to charity so there's that. Also, mattters aren't as simple as you think they are. Some 'fans' harassed him. GL got a lot of hate. And not only that, but he was old and he wanted Star Wars to live on, so to speak.
@@VibingMeike I never thought "matters" were simple. Preserving your artistic integrity is never simple, much less easy. Lucas had a lot of options at his disposal for making sure his vision and ideas were adhered to. Thats the latitude afforded by wealth. Namely the sales terms. Unfortunately he failed to take the steps necessary to safeguard what he presumably cherished. And at this juncture it's clear that no sequels are better than what we ended up with. But please, spare me the "he got a lot of hate." He's been getting that for literally decades since he nonsensically marred his original films with brainless additions, yet he pressed on.
Or at least let us know what the outline for the episodes would have been. Lucas already gave us an idea of the world he wanted to set up in the Star Wars Archives, but the exact story itself is somewhat murky
You should make a part three for The Rise of Skywalker, and perhaps videos about The Mandalorian, Rogue One, and Solo, if you think those would make for compelling videos. All three of your Star Wars videos are so well-made, so I’d love to see more.
The fact they couldn’t come up with a real lineage for Rey because Carrie passed away is utter bullshit! These hacks are literally the most uncreative assholes on the planet! Derp let’s bring back PALPATINE derp Carrie died derp derp
Exactly my thoughts, after watching his 3 amazing takes, I need him to make prequel videos, fleshed out responses to RLM, and maybe talk about EU stuff and Clone Wars.
@@barfyman-wn3id I still think the Mr. Plinkett videos offer the best explanation for why people don't like the Star Wars prequels. However, I feel some of Mike Stoklassa's opinions, regardless of whether they're supposed to be delivered in character, are bizarre. His reasoning for why Samuel L. Jackson was cast comes to mind. Personally, I don't like the prequel trilogy, but I am a moderate fan of the Clone Wars cartoon. Both of them actually. And I still enjoy some of the stories from the old EU. Star Wars has such a vast amount of stories across all forms of media. It's a cliché expression, but there really is something for everyone.
Once again, exceptional videos (Part 1 & 2). What is the likelihood you’re going to do a third on SW: The Rise of Skywalker? I’m dying to not only see your follow up regarding the whole complex mess, but your thoughts or insight regarding Colin Trevorrow’s version. It doesn’t require a mystery box to see there’s plenty of drama to unpack.
I think this irrefutably proves that star wars only worked because of Lucas if he was the moron that people said he was the sequel trilogy should be flawless pieces of writing
Beautifully said my friend, beautifully said. George Lucas IS Star Wars, and only HE can truly make a Sequel Trilogy that is faithful to the fundamental core of the Saga. The filmmaking and storytelling quality in The Prequels and Originals in comparison to the Sequels is baffling - they are millions of times better in everyway, and although Rian Johnson tried his best to be faithful to Lucas' filmmaking philosophy in The Last Jedi - a film I utmost respect as trying to do something different in Star Wars - it's Abrams, Kennedy and Disney which brought the whole trilogy down. I'm so depressed that George never made the Sequels, I really am. If only, if only...
I feel so bad for the main three actors in the sequel trilogy. Feel like they got shafted so much. Anyway, this video is a fairly good, and its interesting to see how your arguments hold up well even with the retrospect they were unfortunately incorrect. Its impressive as is. I really like your channel, and hopefully you have the ability to continue with new video topics. I know I'll watch no matter what you put out.
Wow, now that I think about it, Abrams probably REALLY didn't want to return to direct on 9. He opted to do only TFA and then hop out instead of seeing the trilogy through to its conclusion. Jump off a ship that could potentially sink if he stayed on it and let someone else deal with any issues that arose. Abrams is good at setting up mysteries, but he sure as hell doesn't want to provide answers to them. Imagine his reaction when he was hired to not just return to Star Wars, not just to satisfy a polarised fanbase, not just to wrap up the 9 episode saga, but to ultimately provide ANSWERS for his mysteries! That was going to be someone else's job! "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!".
You mean fascist facsimiles? And how is he "not good at setting up mysteries", if he wasn't then ppl wouldn't bchd and moaned about how disappointing Alias or Lost were, or how much Ruin ruined those set-ups, since no one would care lol Looks like someone's got a dog in the fight here lmfaol
@@username45739 jj set up mysteries he had not intention of answering and if you had to write the next movie you would have trouble coming up with a satisfactory answer.
@@spearfisherman308 " jj set up mysteries he had not intention of answering" My point was that he did a good job setting those up, or else no one would've gotten hyped for next product (and then "let down", to put it a slightly mildly); your response doesn't address that at all, however it seems like that's how it happened, so yeah
@@username45739 no he didn't setting up doesn't equal good the fact that you got hyped is part of the marketing con and means he doesn't have to do any work, good set gives us the world and the rules that ot plays by the prequels did this in episode 1 by showing how the republic was inept due to corruption at handling the nano crisis and allows for palpatine to get his claws into power
I think it's not articulated enough that the reason for changing Rey's parentage was Carrie Fisher's death. I caught it in the beginning of the video, but it was never elaborated on. Do you think that they planned to bring Snoke back and reveal that Rey is Leia's daughter, but then Carrie died and they couldn't meaningfully resolve this plotline so they brought back their only option for significant lineage - Palpatine? Because this is really big if true. Also what do you think of the theory "Crait was first"? It supports your idea of all movies being the rehashes of the OT, and the 8 was supposed to end immediately after Snoke's death, staying consistent with "Kylo is a double agent" theory?
"Do you think that they planned to bring Snoke back and reveal that Rey is Leia's daughter, but then Carrie died and they couldn't meaningfully resolve this plotline so they brought back their only option for significant lineage - Palpatine?" Yes. 100%. I think that is exactly why they changed it. And it's stupid as sh*t.
Why exactly couldn't they get Mark Hamill to help resolve the issue in place of Carrie Fisher's death? They would still be blood relatives and clearly Mark Hamill wants to play a mentor role instead of being shoved aside.
They needed A legacy character as means of explaining Rey’s existence If Carrie was alive they would have probably fleshed it out more (despite the damage to the saga already being done) but of course she passed away and, again, JJ needed a recurring character in the saga to close it off: to BS a legit conclusion to a now 9 part story
Upon rewtach of the whole saga, Got threw 1-6 and watched solo and rogue one as well, and everything had a flow to it, as soon as 7 started and ended I finally realized just how blind I was when it came out, tfa is a terrible sequel to the originals, it does world build, it doesnt care to build on what came before, it is not a true continuation of the saga, it's not a story that needed to exist, the story that needed to exist was seeing Leia rebuild the galaxy and the new republic, seeing Luke and the next generation of skywalkers and solos dealing with the lagacy of what came before, dealing with new threats, thats the story that was actually needing to be told, at the end of the day the sequels are not worth rewatching, it ended it six, Thats why I dont want the shows like the mandalorina to have to be tied down in explaining the dogshit writing jj abrams did in the sequels, I was them to take things in a new direction after the return of the jedis ending and be free to tell what actually happened
It's nice to see people figure this out even if late. After I watched TFA I knew it was a bad Sequel and would cause problems for the following movies. All the idiots saying it needed to be a soft reboot didn't realize how badly that would age. 10, 20, 50, 100 years from now someone is going to watch the Star Wars Saga for the first time and hit TFA and just be utterly confused. The rehash nature of it would be even more apparent than ever since they didn't have any decades long wait. It was a real crowd pleaser for Star Wars fandom in 2015, but all that gooey nostalgia wasn't going to mean anything to a first time Star Wars fan. Worst of all a story about hope becomes a story of despair and nihilism. After six you're hopeful about the future and in TFA nothing has changed, actually it's gotten worse. The whole point of the OT is that they were the generation that made the right choices, that got it right in respect to the Prequels and they still completely and utterly failed at everything. Our new heroes have done nothing different, so why should we believe they'll be better off 30 years from now not all separated and fighting another evil Empire.
I can recommend it as a comedy movie, i laughed my ass from beginning to end, especially a scene in a desert planet where pigs laugh, yes there's a scene like that in the movie
I watched the ytps of rise of Skywalker, then I watched it on Disney Plus while in anticipation of CloneWars saved so I could understand the joked better
Rian Johnson when writing episode 8 : - His planets were clones of the original trilogy, his Supreme Leader Snoke was another emperor, his story for episode 7 is only a teaser with nostalgia baits, the origins of Rey have no answers, et voilà. It all adds up. Like everyone I assumed that JJ Abrams was a complicated genius, but now I look at the center of this glass onion, and I understand. JJ is an idiot.
As a wounded Star Wars fan (ie like everyone) I was crying with relief at this video at how the pointlessness of a "SEQUEL TRILOGY" now makes more sense, it would have been even better if Star Wars was called Apocrypha! THANK YOU! BTW plz make part 3 of how it should have been done... PLEASE! (Also protect this video from the inevitable takedown!!!!)
There was a plan… an outline of one. But a plan. A LOST plan. But still a plan. The story of Abrams's career. I would have loved to see George’ version or Michael Arnet’s original script for the last three trilogy.
Part of me agrees but remember George only gave them drafts of 7-9 because the existence of the sequels was an inevitable, not because he actually wanted them to exist. They would likely be better films than the disaster we got, but the *actual first* major storytelling misstep was selling Star Wars to Disney in the first place rather than not going with the creator's plan. Star Wars was already a complete story from 1-6, there never needed to be 7-9. They were imagined out of obligation first and a passion for storytelling second. Before selling, George had been asked to make episode 7 many times and has said there is no story left to tell.
@@polyman6859 Micheal Arnet’s completed screenplay was based on George’s conversations with him and original story outline notes for 7, 8 and 9.That is what was rejected. This was the conclusion I arrived. to after doing the research. It is a shame. it was a chance to have all the original characters return for one last trilogy. Instead of a “mystery box” of “shock and awe” of misdirected emptiness and meaningless plot points
@@MDarkraven Agree, we should've gotten Arnet's adaptation of Lucas' drafts. This two part video is the biggest redpill I've ever swallowed. It was in all likelihood, JJ Abrams' fault for the downfall of 7-9. Jett Lucas could pull a Tolkien's son and tell us the real story since he knew it but I wouldn't keep my chin up. The hope for Star Wars is in video games, animation, novels, and comic books.
I saw Force Awakens on opening night, and I was the only one seated near me who wasn’t thrilled. I was glad to eventually discover that I wasn’t alone in seeing what a missed opportunity it was. Great acting and production value, but no innovation.
Same; while my friends were cheering, I was exposing how it was a shite remake of new hope, taking elements and combining them randomly. I actually got through to a few of them right after we left, and we kept talking shit on the movie and pissing off this loser that loved it
@@pyropulseIXXI I had the exact same experience with my friends after the midnight showing. Absolutely recycled garbage. I went on a fucking tirade for about three hours as soon as the lights went up. None of my movie-going compatriots were left standing.
@@TheCapedWanderer I have a cousin. She saw TFA when she was 7 and hated it. I asked her why, (I didn't like it either, but I wanted to know why) and she told me it felt like a hollow copy without the magic. She still stands by that today
@@megalord2598 The reaction at my school is a little bit mixed, but yeah, for the most part, kids either hate the sequels, are indifferent to them, or like them but don't love them the way kids felt about the prequels growing up. That's not an accident. Ther's more to making kids love and be impacted by something than most will give credit for.
Huh, someone else with almost the same perspective as me. I couldn't stand 7, I remember actively disliking it *while* watching it. I had some problems with 8 but basically came to the same conclusion as you, there was nothing Johnson could really do. His movie was guaranteed to suck. I left the theatre for 8 saying I wouldn't ever watch another JJ film. I still haven't.
despite TLJ being such a mess and Rian's response to the backlash being...less than humble, I think the guy is a much better director and much more talented that J.J. and I'm happy that he's doing so well with Knives Out and its sequels. I just wish he and Abrams would've never gotten involved with Star Wars.
@@sunsetman22 I agree. I have a bigger issue with Rian as a person than I do him as a director. Now JJ? I genuinely believe he is a shit director. But I don't particularly have problems with him as a person. That said, I would much rather neither one touched Star Wars. Though I lean heavily towards the directors aren't the biggest problem with the sequels.
My main problems still are the way TFA ends (barely showing luke, after waiting the whole movie ) Han Solo getting killed the way he did, then the way TLJ totally undid what little was buildt up, then ROS undid all of that because of the backlash. So in the end . It was all a billion dollar waste of time and not a single scene or movie that included all the og characters
@BK Beatty No. He is a hack. He has exactly two tools. Mystery boxes and special effects. Mystery boxes are shit in almost all cases and his special effects get boring very quickly. I can literally think of no director who has been handed franchises and has consistently ruined them more than JJ. Further, I can't think of a movie of his that I thought was *decent*, let alone good. I grew up on Star Wars and Star Trek, if there was ever a series that I was going to go into a theatre expecting to enjoy a movie, it would have been those. Without exception, I have always left JJ's movies thinking they were terrible.
@BK Beatty No, it isn't a writing issue, it is a JJ issue. He himself has gone on about mystery boxes and how he uses them in every movie he directs. He is good at making crap movies. He is awful at everything else.
Aaaaaand again, just nailing this to the wall. Never seen someone unpick the knot of this trilogy so well.
Thank you for suggesting this channel to people. I've been doing the same thing by telling people about your fantastic channel since I found it. I watched all your videos in one day and I'm doing the same thing here today with this channel.
Thank you also for bringing me to this. Your channel is also a gem!
We are looking forward to your treatment on the sequels as well!
And you managed to do it yourself, in just 25 minutes!
Or so douchily
Been saying this for years. All the problems of the Sequels started with the Force Awakens, not the Last Jedi.
TFA is such a hollow shell of a movie it's unreal
@@sunsetman22 It's an ultimate consoomers paradise. Everything good in that film was either ripped off (not in the inspired sense) or had been done before.
Starkiller Base? Yeah let's just take that characters name from the video game and the early drafts of ANH and slap it on there
A soldier who deserts? While I do love the character of Finn in TFA, doesn't that seem a tad similar to Cut Lawquane from Clone Wars?
And of course, the entire plot of ANH is just copypasted. Sure, the prequels borrowed some elements from the originals but that was done in a way that was still original and actually contributed to the story..
:/
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has been saying this for years. J.J. is to blame - he's a terrible storyteller. Rian Johnson is an excellent storyteller and director who was handled a bad story set-up by a terrible storyteller.
I still think TFA _could_ have been a great movie that created a structurally sound foundation to build a new trilogy on.
But they didn't do that lol. If you look at the poster for the movie, divide it in your minds eye into two halves split down the middle. Then, cover just the right side and look at the left; doesn't look like Star Wars. But, if it cover the left side and look at the right... looks great, doesn't it? Han, Leia, Chewbacca, R2, and a new Jedi. THAT would have been a good movie.
Instead, they ruined Han, trashed George Lucas and everyone who worked on the prequels, and exploited nostalgia to make money on a mediocre at best and offensive at worst product.
Yep, I wrote a review of TFA the day it came out and I saw it... I think it slightly alienated me from some of my friends, but it was that bad...
I really liked the double agent Kylo idea proposed here. It indeed made sense of a lot of things and made him the “incredibly interesting” character that so many people seem to think he is. Doesn’t fix the myriad of other issues the trilogy has, but it’s something.
I’ll forever be disappointed we won’t get to see George’s story.
I think the reason so many people need to blame Rian Johnson for the ST's failure is that they don't want to admit to themselves that they were hoodwinked by TFA, that they were so desperate for new Star Wars they they cheered in spite of the film being essentially without substance. I thought it was a pretty good start, but then, when I bought it on Blu-ray, watched it halfway through, *stopped* for some reason and then even more astoundingly never felt the need to go back to it, I realized that it wasn't as good as I had initially thought (there are certain JJ-isms that I never liked, like the splitting laser beam that fires across lightyears or the way people zip around space in no time flat, like they are just driving down to the corner store). To this day, I've only seen TFA one and a half times.
Absolutely. People called me a fake fan 2015-2018 when I said I wasn't all that impressed by TFA. Just a bunch of setup for character arcs that is only good if harvested in the later episodes. Which wasn't done effectively. Luke goes through the hero's journey within episode 4, which is why they can't change the chronology of the OT when ripping it off, because it means Rey can't grow as easily/naturally as Luke did, resulting in her character being flat.
I was one of those that bought into the potential. I hated the stupidity and laziness that JJ had injected into so much of it - including the things you mentioned and so much more - but figured that he wouldn't be back and it was a good enough jumping off point that could be fixed by the next guy ignoring the stupid things. I didn't like the giant Pokeball Deathstar. A total lack of understanding (or caring) how seeing things in space works (I can accept some cinematic license, but he pulled the same seeing a planet in another part of the galaxy exploding that he did in Star Trek). I knew it was basically a retread but figured that wouldn't last past him. Etc.
It's just continued to get dumber since then.
Eh, I hated it from the start. My family insisted we go see it Christmas 2015 and I could see immediately that it was just a bad rehash of Episode 4. But of course Rian Johnson is even more of an awful hack than JarJar Abrams.
@@cowboycurtis4944 Yeah, some people did see the badness of Disney Star Wars early, and even I found that once I brought the Bluray, I stopped halfway through and never felt the need to pick it up again, but the community at large was still mostly happy, pending how the series was carried forward. I guess I'd say it was still eminently recoverable at that point.
I have a theory that this channel was commissioned by Lucas himself so he could get it all out of his system without breaking his NDA.
Of course, that's just a theory.
But I quite enjoyed all 3 of these videos. Really great work.
True mystery box storytelling
Or, to put it another way, Palpatine didn't come back because of the death of Snoke; came back because of the death of creativity.
👍😂😂😂
It would have been a genuine surprise is Snoke came back. Making Snoke hard to kill would have added to the tension of the final confrontation.
Instead it was “Palpatine? Oh for f$&ks sake! Really!?!?! … Please don’t tell me Palpatine is Rey’s grandfather! … Oh, you have got to be kidding me. I’m laughing now because I can’t suspend disbelief any longer.”
@@tjejojyj 'Oh okay so her PARENTS are nobodies! That pleases the people who liked the Last Jedi !
Now , to please people who didn't like the Last Jedi , let's make her grandfather a somebody like ,maybe, .... PALPATINE! Done and dusted : we've saved the trilogy'
But .... if her grandfather is somebody .. .then her parents are somebody! And so you dissapoint both parties!
"You've failed me for the last time , Captain Abrams"
:0
Watching this in 2024 and hearing you say, "I for one am glad he came back for nine, I think there's a very good chance he is going to fall flat on his face, and just maybe the audience will finally start to see him for what he is."
HOLY COW, YOU WERE A PROPHET!!!
It’s amazing how much I allowed J.J. Abrams off the hook by blaming Ryan Johnson. I only started to pick up on this after watching Mauler’s analysis of the force awakens. Now that the first part of this series gives such a reasonable explanation for the film’s mess of a development, I’ve truly begun to understand how doomed this was from the start. Excellent video.
J.J. Abrams killed Star Wars. Rian Johnson mutilated the corpse and pissed on it.
Then JJ committed necrophilic acts for Episode IX
I almost didn't watch TLJ because of how bad TFA was, but friends roped me into it... and needless to say I didn't bother with TRoS
@@lumeronswift, "You're a far wiser man than I am."
mauler cringe
I'm so glad Mauler name dropped these on StarwarsTheory's channel so more people see it.
I don't really like MauLer or Star Wars Theory, but the Apocrypha videos certainly deserve more views, so props to them for recommending it.
Those HACK's wouldn't like this. Its not "anti woke" enough and doesn't attack Rian Johnson enough.
@@monotech20.14 MauLer directly said he liked the "How "How Star Wars was saved in the edit" was saved in the edit", and encouraged people to watch it. He was never much of an "anti-woke" - he tends to steer clear of politics in general, - and while he did make the make a lot of fun of Rian, it was pretty much always deserved. He made just as much fun of other directors and writers that did a poor job, in Star Wars and in other properties. I might also note that part of MauLer's critique of The Last Jedi is used in this very video above.
Theory though, that guy's pretty much the ultimate representation of the average Star Wars fan. Very little willingness for critical thinking, trying to search for an easy person to blame and and easy person to venerate. And of course if there's a simple explanation of "woke makes it bad" he goes with it, because that means you don't need to think carefully about it, just scream "woke!" and feel happy.
@@DawidKov Anyone who is part of the Friday Night Tights are lying pandering sexist bigots.
@@monotech20.14 That is certainly an opinion.
God the vitriol and distain with which you present the idea of Rey being a Palpatine, only for that to be exactly what they ended up doing was just beautiful.
Come back Nerdonymous, you were one of the only good Star Wars youtubers in this sea of cynicism and speculation
I would love to hear his thoughts on the current state of Star Wars after all of these shows, and the new trilogy being in development.
Bruh- this whole video is nothing BUT cynicism and speculation 😂
You have just given me an entirely fresh perspective on something I thought I was fully versed in. You've woken me up to a much darker reality than I could've ever imagined. And your predictions for The Rise of Skywalker were bang on the money. You have shown me a new school of thought, that, even with certain nitpicks I still have to work out, will happily subscribe to.
I have been a fervent defender of George Lucas's Star Wars for maybe 1 1/2 years now. And it should've taken me a lot less time in order to wake up and appreciate the man. But I did know that from the start, Disney making a film trilogy with the premise of a recycling of the old would never work, and I waited with dread until TROS, when JJ delivered the final death blow unto the franchise, assuming it wasn't dead already. But it has really become clear how lost the franchise is without George putting one hand, hell, two hands on the wheel. It's become the bloated, decaying guinea pig of a bunch of blindfolded, sadistic hacks with no care for the mythology, storytelling, or passion that Star Wars should value.
You've earned a subscriber, and honestly, I'd consider donating to any sort of membership you may or may not set up in the future, which I rarely ever do. I'm looking forward to what you do in the future!
Hey look
Another Man of culture
@@Yami1300 Hey look
A weeb
@@misterairborne654
At your service
The way I see it in retrospect is that this trilogy was a ticking time bomb waiting to implode on itself. How long can you keep a mystery until you disappoint the audience (ep 8) or run out of time to actually give satisfying answers (ep 9)?
1:36:13 - This is the best part of your video and demonstrates why the sequel trilogy fails. All throughout the 90s I was very pessimistic about the prequels because I didnt see why they would matter. What is the point of telling a story about a hero becoming bad? How is that inspiring? Because of the way Lucas made the movies he MADE them matter. During TPM I could tell right away this was meant to be the first part of a six part story. That's what made me love the movie right away in spite of my pessimism going in. The ST had an even more daunting task, but Disney and Abrams didnt seem to even care.
The main reason I'm perfectly confident in saying the prequels are inherently better than the sequels is simple; on paper, the prequels are conceptually sound. The problem with the prequels was never its ideas, but its execution of those idea. The same cannot be said for the sequels, they are simply built on bad ideas.
@@Harrinsain in my opinion the problem of prequels was this that their scrpts needed a little more rewrites and polish before filming them.
The whole midichlorians and Anakin being the chosen one wasn't really that important to the story.(Since if you remove those ideas from the prequels and the story would remain the same.)
@@DaraG-sn2nj Anakin being the chosen one wasn't really that important to the story? Seriously? It made his arc even better imo as there was a push pull over whether or not he would or wouldn't destroy the Sith ('A prophecy that misread, could have been') only to prove his peers wrong in ROTJ
You know Paul Hirsch and Richard Chew should have come back as editors, they would have saved the whole thing.
Yeah just like before! LOL!! NOT!!!!
Don't forget MaRciA
Haha, lol.
Star Wars Saved by Paul Hirsch (According to Paul Hirsch )
SO true
The Lucas hate is so stupid
Lucas is not above criticism and he certainly has made mistakes, but the visceral hatred for Lucas is something I find to be utterly ridiculous.
He deserves the hate just for creating jar jar and ruining the OT with the special editions. Lucas is a hack. Has been since return of the jedi
@@edwardelric603 "Ruining", yeah right.
And about rotj, Marcia cheated on him and he had depression and wanted the movie production to end as soon as possible, let's not forget that Ford and Fisher also arrived wasted at the set.
@@orlandofurioso7329 Ford was too? I never knew that.
@@orlandofurioso7329 Both of them being wasted on set explains *so much* about their acting in ROTJ
"Rey is a Palpatine because she uses a thrust"
Not only did this turn out to be true, but it's also better reasoning than the film...
Honestly, having Rey be Han and Leia's long-lost daughter would've been such a better inclusion in the story. But because JJ is a hack who doesn't like it when his terrible "mystery boxes" are easily figured out, he decided to... wait for it... "SuBverT eXPectAtiOns" by making Rey a Palpatine. It's honestly insulting, just the cherry on top of the mountain of insults that is the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy.
@@TheIllcaster, and even then, the story is brought down on the very premise that the state of the galaxy is bad with a new Empire on the rise. Why? Why not make it so that the main antagonists are pro-Imperial insurgents fighting against the New Republic, who are working alongside the Jedi to crack down on, with Kira (I do not care for the Rey name) Solo being one of those Jedi fighting against Imperial remnants? That would make for a far more interesting story than the Original Trilogy shoddily repeated.
@@occam7382we cant do that. That would be an interesting story w/ incredible rewatch value; and we cant have that
@@katakesh8566, indeed, my friend... (Sigh) Indeed...
Thank you for disspelling this bullshit notion that the vague similarities that the Sequel trilogy's Luke had with George's version does not, in any way, mean that George's Luke would've been the exact same way.
George's version would've worked; there's no doubt in my mind.
George would've handled Kurtz-Luke so, so much better and in a much more meaningful way than just "haha Jedi bad watch me gulp blue milk"
@@sunsetman22 Kurtz-Luke ?
@@vykuntapufangtxpreet9546 The idea that Luke becoming a depressed hermit would be modelled after Colonel Kurtz from 'Apocalypse Now'
I have an announcement to make, everybody. We have officially reached our first goal of 1,500 signatures on the "Make George Lucas' Sequel Trilogy" petition. Thanl you to everybody who's signed so far, and thank you to everyone who's still commenting on this video after all these years.
To anyone who still hasn't signed, click that link and help us get up to 2,500 signatures. Have a great day, everybody.
I mean no disrespect but what will hitting 2,500 signatures accomplish? Or even 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?
Lmao 1500 signatures after 8 YEARS?
Please don’t bother Lucas with this nonsense, leave the poor guy alone.
@@self2self9, this petition isn't for George. It's for Kathleen Kennedy.
I think JJ and his "mystery boxes" highlight one of my biggest peeves when it comes to films: "Saving it for the next one" I had original thought this was only a problem in book-to-film adaptions but apparently it has infected all kinds of movies. Problem is in the case of those book-to-film adaptions the end product will be a box-office bomb, the studio would wash their hands of the franchise, and move on. No way that was going to happen, both the fans and Disney wouldn't allow it.
Moral of the story: Don't write like a sequel is inevitable.
The funny thing is that JJ can't even write the third film of a trilogy without introducing more mystery boxes:
The "I never told you.." scene between Finn and Rey, and also Lando's "well, let's find out" line towards Jannah.
This same thing happened with Terminator: Genisys, where we were told that who sent Pops back was "classified".
@@fundhund62 Yeah, I always wondered what that was about.....
Oh well! Time to find out in episodes X, xi, and xii ! 😂😂
What's interesting is how the media narrative when I google searched George's idea for the sequel trilogy have tried to link George's ideas with how the last jedi turned out.
Your instinct about LOST is completely right. That is literally what watching LOST was like. However, Abrams wasn't really that involved in LOST beyond its initial episodes.
A bit late, but Adam Driver's interview with Rich Eisen has confirmed Nerdonymous skepticism regarding Johnson "ruining" Abrams' plan, at least regarding Kylo's character arc. Driver explicitly stated that Abrams changed course in Rise and that while Johnson took it into a different direction, it still tracked. It's at 17:54 exact.
We now know , thanks to Adam Driver that Kylo wasn't supposed to be redeemed and go back to the light side of the Force. So in TLJ , Rian Johnson didn't ruin Luke ,in that way anyway when Luke said he can't save Kylo. Again IT WAS JJ'S FAULT. The whole trilogy being shit is JJ's fault. Its JJ's fault. It was his idea to not use Lucas's story, it was JJ who put Luke away on an island and it was JJ's fault to change Kylo at the last 30 mins of epi 9. Not to mention bring back Sidious.
@@monotech20.14Wow, so Ryan's Luke would've been correct about not being able to save him? JJ also ruined the entire Star Wars saga by undoing Anakin being the chosen one.
@@imnotusingmyrealname4566 JJ is a HACK and got lucky. BTW wouldn't Luke of all people know who can and can not be saved? Remember in RotJ Luke says "I can feel the conflict within you". Its a lot better than Kylo changing 15 mins before the end of the movie.
watching these 2.. man it seems like Ridley was so freaking enthusiastic about being in Star Wars, a genuine fan, I feel so bad for her dude.
I feel bad for every actor, they got involved in a fan fiction of the director who did not really care for their careers and only cared about his version of Star Wars.
The saddest thing is that many Star Wars fans think the same way, doesn't matter what films they like, they love Star Wars for what it could be and not because of what it already is.
@@orlandofurioso7329, indeed. Those people deserve to have acted in an actually good Star Wars trilogy, one made according to the vision of George Lucas. Not the dogsh*t fanfiction spewed out by Jar Jar Abrams and Mr. Bubblehead Johnson.
Very interesting theory. JJ was the Phantom Menace the whole time.
Desperately need a part 3 discussing the absolute train wreck that was TROS.
Hear, Hear! :)
he gave up on it, just like Plinkett did, that movie is so messy its not even worth talking about it, it just speaks for itself.
It’s beautifully ironic that ROS did exactly what Nerdonymous criticized fan theories for; revealing Rey’s lineage in a way that is shocking, but doesn’t change or advance the narrative in any way. JJ’s mystery boxes really are just for the sake of mystery, not the story.
32:12
Unless I'm mistaken, didn't they reveal Palpatine's return in Fortnite?
Not that this invalidates your point, if anything it just confirms how poorly JJ handled the story.
I remember when that happened. I remember thinking to myself 'hm okay, this will probably be in the movie.
...wait, you mean it ISN'T?'
"Why? Why would the writers make Rey a descendant of Palpatine?"
I've been asking myself that question for years now 😂
I think it was to give that connection to him once he was back as the main villain otherwise he’s just some old man that she’s never.
@@billmcdermott9647 But that makes no sense. Any nuance that could have been there was lost and never used. Watch their confrontation scene. How does Palpatine being her grandpa have anything to do with the scene. Does it add anything to the scene? Does Rey hesitate because he is her grandpa? No, it doesn't. It adds literally nothing
@@officialmonarchmusic but this Jj so it’s probably him trying to ape the Vader reveal because it is as you say…..she treats him as just another villain rather than her only living family. He is a barley alive wreck and you could have had her try to offer compassion but he rejects it,…seeing as the weakness found in all Jedi
It’s trying to give them connection but it rings hollow because you never believe she will join him nor does she encourage him to let go of his greed
@@billmcdermott9647 There is a difference between "Join me and we can rule the galaxy as father and son" and "join me and I will possess you and I promise your friends will be OK even though I am the one in control". Whatever merit there is there has nothing to do with him being her grandfather. No nuance is there at all. Palpatine is more "the dude who had my parents murdered" than her actual grandfather. They had this stupid reveal for literally no reason other than for shock value. What a waste
@@officialmonarchmusic, exactly. It's like Nerdonymous said. The idea that Han and Leia were Rey's father and mother and Kylo was Rey's brother who killed her father right in front of her works so much better for the story. I'd still argue that with J.J. at the helm, it wouldn't have been very good, but good god, it would've been SOMETHING. ANYTHING than what we got.
I think shitting on JJ AND Rian is the proper solution to most of these arguments. They both equally shit the bed. It's all terrible, and disney itself is truly to blame.
I mean, If this series is correct in it's assertions of JJ's active involvement in lucas' story being refused, and the last jedi being what it is to save JJ's mystery boxes, then I feel like the blame that Rian got for his incompetence is highly disporportionate for the blame that JJ and disney as a whiole got for their active attempts at making the trilogy what it is. Rian is not innocent (far from it) , but the blame should not, as I see it, be distributed equally, as if they were both equally responsible for what ended up happening
@@spritingk6879, oh yeah. Rian deserves hate only for the terrible ideas in his own movie, and nothing more. J.J. deserves hate for the entire trilogy.
Man JJ really put Johnson in a tough spot. Johnson had to make sense and move forward with logical explanations for everyone in last jedi. It makes sense he didn't bother explaining anything and just justified a few plot points.
Exactly.
Yeah. I figured out this before Episode IX came out and then I realised, f*ck this, I will not pay more money for this. I haven't seen that train wreck. I know what it is about and I am glad about it hahaha.
As soon as I heard JJ was going to direct TFA I knew it was going to be a mess because of what he done to Star Trek. Then he was executive producer for TLJ I knew Star Wars was done. Then when he was called back for TROS I knew I was going to be into nothing but sheer disappointment.
If Steven Spielberg wasn't JJ's godfather, then JJ would be the #1 BS video uploader on UA-cam instead of having any meaningful screen credits to his name.
These two videos should be required viewing for all film school students on how NOT to do a movie.
Hopefully you'll get the millions of views these videos deserve because you clearly put everything into context and in chronological order which clearly places the blame of the sequel trilogy's failure in JJ's lap.
I think we all know that a long-dead desiccated remains of a cat named Schrödinger is in JJ's mystery box.
holy fuck, LOL!
Like you I also knew there was going to be a huge problem for Star Wars after the catastrophic and stupid Star Trek of 2009. But I didn't think it was going to be handled this badly. Even if it's very sad, it will have the merit to show that Abrams is one of the worst incompetent of the movie industry. And show that Lucas had done a good job with the prelogy and that it is necessary that his version of the sequels be shot.
@@philippealain-art Agreed 💯
OH
Spielberg is JJ's godfather....it makes sense now.
That's why he has such nepotism.
You know it's bad when TLJ fans like Patrick Willems are predicting based on Felicity that Abrams would fumble Episode IX. About the most sensible thing he's ever said.
You know what's funny? Rey and Kylo's relationship change mirror Leia and Luke's relationship change in the OT.
In the original trilogy, Luke and Leia weren't supposed to be blood related but due to changes in plans their relationship switched to being brother and sister.
In the sequel trilogy, Kylo and Rey were suppose to be brother and sister but due to changes in plans they ended up not being blood related.
Their kisses feel forced and awkward for different reasons.
it's like poetry
@@shira_yone It kinda rhymes
@@t6kr958it does rhyme but it’s like an awful simile because it’s purely rhythmic for the sake of repetition rather than using established motifs for actual nuance and care into the mythos. Look up “Every Time Star Wars Quotes Star Wars” by Rick Worely. Instead of reading the ring theory Lucas himself answers the question of the need to be repetitive. Lucas said that he likes to tell a story and retell the same plot in various styles. The man was discredited from actually giving nuance because Star Wars is solely meant to be fun for the loud mouths that lack actual film literate opinions…
@@shira_yonepottery even. It shatters
you should do a part 3 since the rise of skywalker came out
Absolutely! He obviously understands these movies like few other people do. Check out the channel So Uncivilized for similar expert analysis of Star Wars. Both channels have pointed out things I've never heard or thought about and that's rare at this point. I've watched so many of these videos I've heard just about everything.
Quoting Palpatine "DEW IT"
These 2 videos are the best I've seen over the last couple years discussing the Disney sequels. Not just senseless name calling and anger but actual rational and well thought out look into the convoluted mess that are the sequels. Great stuff
Remember kids, a wise man once said "Basically the the same is not basically the same as Vastly different, it's vastly different".
"I know I'm not alone in this, but it was common knowledge before The Force Awakens open that Disney had rejected Lucas's sequel trilogy storyline, and although there certainly were some, there were not many fans expresing there displeasure, and after Force Awakens opened, there were not many more. The rejection of Disney sequel trilogy as fanfiction is a more recent thing, which tells me that most fans don't care if the sequel trilogy is fanfiction, they just dont like this specific fanfiction they're getting"
The best phrase of this video, and very accurate. And I include myself. Now I see that I was wrong like all those fans.
Yeah I wasn't tbh, I was hyped until I learned that fact. When I saw the movie, I saw the corporate sludge and knew fans would eat it up. The prequels were always as good as the OT to me, genuinely a masterclass in film making. They made mistakes, but so did the OT. I've hated the boomer prequel hate train ever since I first saw people shitting on it online, like all of the criticisms were just an excuse to shit on them for not being the same as the OT, and I knew those same fans would eat 7 up. It hurts me even to this day that people are just now loving the prequels as they should be and that it took people so long to realize how terrible Disney handled Star Wars. I should feel happy to be proven right, but it's just depressing
I feel you, man. I was super dumb when these movies came out.
Rey should have been Han and Leia’s daughter from the very beginning. No mystery box. Just be up front about it. This is the story of the GRANDCHILDREN of Anakin, with the OT characters playing a vital role in passing the baton onto this next generation. Star Wars is a generational story. As Lucas put it: the father, the children, and the grandchildren. That’s what it should have been.
Problem is, you would have had to actually tell a story in that instance.
That's not what Abrams or Disney wanted:
Just play on nostalgia, and don't make any decisions that could put off certain fans.
You can study this approach to a tee in The Mandalorian. It's nothing but a fanservice orgy. "Do you remember that guy? Or this droid? Or these seismic charges?"
And yet peopld go crazy over it.
It's a shame 🙈
"B-but wut about muh mystery box?" 😵💫
You're bang on the money. It should have been about the grandchildren and served to recontextualize the wider story like the prequels :0
Just had the previous part recommended to me, and it was great. Have now seen both parts, and they are criminally underrated. Keep up the great work :)
You know, if Rey was actually Han's daughter, that would make her watching Han getting killed by his son a really cool scene
It would, and if Nerdonymous was right, it should've. But they didn't. And that's f*cking infuriating.
There aren't enough viable creators attempting to preserve George's legacy to the extent and quality you did. You need to come back to UA-cam!!!
Rick Worley does a great job as well.
29:38 I like how you said "no I'm not joking" before saying this one
The idea of kylo being some kind of cold pragmatist breaking a few eggs to bring down the first order could have been great. They could have played with the idea of when doing unethical things for ethical reasons begins to cross the line into inhumane ir even evil. Kylo could have been like every American politician who gets into office for the "right" reasons but end up voting against the interest of the people in order to curry political sway for other policies they hope to push through. How many unnecessary wars can one vote for before passing a bill people need is no longer ennough of a payoff? At the least, it would have been new territory for star wars.
That would have been very interesting... but it would've required creativity, storytelling talent, and genuine care for this franchise. All of which J.J. Abrams clearly lacks.
Great video. I’d be interesting if you made a Part 3 going into what happened behind the making of The Rise of Skywalker, and how JJ attempted to wrap up the slog he invented
What really gets me so disappointed in the Sequel Trilogy is all the talented actors, passionate artists working on practical effects, so many people who love Star Wars getting an opportunity to work on a film and put their own mark on one of the greatest fictional universes ever created. I'm sure the higher ups working at Disney like the franchise, after all the original trilogy are excellent movies and there's a lot of money to be made into pumping out a several films per year in the way the MCU does things.
It hurts even more when you realize how disappointed they all were. Boyega, Isaac, Hamill, Ridley, so many of the lower level cast and crew HATED the films. They felt like they were a part of something silly, pointless, or just bad. It's so fucking sad
@@Jiub_SN, yeah. When you hear the cast and crew of the Original and Prequel Trilogies praising and defending Goerge Lucas to this very day, while the only reason J.J. hasn't been dragged through the mud by his cast and crew is pressure from the House of Mouse... it's just sad.
The real Rey's parents were the friends we made along the way.
Great video! Finally someone exposes the scope of JJ's incompetence.
If I had two free wishes for the future of Star Wars (besides the obvious "give the franchise back to its creator"), they'd be:
1. Don't bring back any more dead characters!
2. Don't bring back JJ Abrams!
I find it abit poetic, but I wouldn't say no to bringing back Palpatine one more time, only properly ending him this time, and ending the sequel hexology in a satisfying way.
It'd be almost an exact mirror of when Palpatine was brought back in the EU, fans hating it, then bringing him back again to properly cap the story and not leave Palpatine being able to return again.
I'd probably prefer to see a new generation of characters though, I'm basicallt shot of this set.
This whole new cinephile underground rebellion/Star Wars counter culture movement pioneered by Rick Worley, Nerdonymous, So Uncivilised Style is Substance, Anomaly Inc. - hell even Star Wars Theory at this point - and so on, is the greatest underground internet movement I have ever had the joy of seeing. It feels so amazing to finally have people who actually know their cinema on more intricate and historical, literal level, make defence videos of the Prequels and George Lucas as a whole; these whiney Prequel haters have tried to make us Prequel fans and George Lucas appreciators feel small and dumb for decades, but now to see those people finally get countered - by film fans who actually watch cinema beyond action films of the last 40 years: it's a beautiful and uplifting sight to see.
Cheers!
It feels weird seeing all of the names you mentioned there together, considering from what I've seen of the ones I've seen, they aren't all telling the same story, there's a few who I've seen something of or interacted with that did something that made me not want to see more of them, and the only one of these people who I still mostly come out with a positive impression of after watching more than one video from is Rick Worley.
I don't think it should be a controversial statement that a lot of Star Wars fans can be extremely toxic, and that this is easily visible online, and while for most of these creators I wouldn't say I've directly seen them doing or saying anything vile, there somehow manages to be something somewhere in something I see from them online that has me wondering at bare minimum, what spaces are you in that have you saying this or showing this? Because there are certain narratives and viewpoints that are extremely prominent in some of the worst circles of the community (if they are products of them or fundamentally inseparable from them) that manage to find their way into, or at least hint as being somewhere in some of these.
Or in the case of this specific video, the creator for some reason chose to include a clip from E;R of all people, which only really tells me that at some point they actually watched videos of theirs, and didn't think they sucked enough to be a person they're better off ignoring. I don't remember everything that had me wondering "why was this said," but I do remember in the first part this video's creator for some reason referred to Abrams as (not in their view) "Jewish superman," and that's really weird in conjunction with actually including clips from someone like E;R.
Also many weird variations of vague reasoning for why certain decisions have been made with regards to the sequels, often attributing them to Disney as if there's any reason to believe they had anything to do with actual decisions being made creatively outside of deadlines and budget decisions (this video is not guilty of that in particular). But some of the things different creators mentioned here might say with regards to the sequels might not explicitly contradict each other, but it seems weird to me that anyone would believe the different things said simultaneously.
Actually, remembering who Style is Substance is, I actually kind of like them too (from what I've seen anyway), but haven't seen their Star Wars related anything yet.
not star wars theory
Ok you sound kinda whiny yourself though, and if those critics made you "feel dumb" and you weren't able to counter them in text form or idk, doesn't that mean that you... were kinda dumb?
Also Rick Worley has made some incredibly flawed arguments in support of PT and SE - for all his knowledge about film allusions, his textual understanding of plot points etc. seems below average.
So rallying around him is not a winning position; and Nerdonymous' ST negativity gets irrational at times as well, plus he's apparently got blindspots about how internally consistent the "1-6 saga" is.
What The Force Awakens and people's reactions to it have taught me is that when there's no meaning, people will find meaning in anything.
the shared existence of man and religiosity:
Meaning is never inherent.
5:39 oh my gosh, it took me WAAAAY too long to figure out "Solana" is just "SOLo" and "orgANA," like "Kylo" is "sKY" and "soLO"
That... that _feels_ like the dumbest shit I've ever herad, but I might just be in a hard mindset... but boy is that stupid. And Yeah, that means Rey was totally going to be Ben's sister.
i didn't even figure out the kylo one until i saw this comment💀
SOLEANNA FROM SONIC 06???!!!1111111
Solana was easy, but I had to check the comments to understand the sKylo. Where does the Ren comes from, though?
Honestly the idea of Rey being a solo, us not knowing until the end of episode 8 where kylo is like "You knew it the moment you met him... But you don't want it to be true... You don't want it to be true that the father you've waited your whole life to meet died in front of your eyes... Yes... He was your father... And I am your brother." With episode 9 being about learning of how Luke/kylo wiped people's memories and hid Rey away and her dealing with this family, connecting with Leia, etc... Would have been much better than what we ended up with.
Yeah, that wouldn't have been quite so bad.
Idk maybe
“Rey’s parents aren’t gonna be revealed in a video game”
*Palpatine cackle*
The media story surrounding post-prequel Star Wars wants to paint a picture of George Lucas as a failure and JJ Abrams as a visionary, when the actual truth is the other way around. The same old inversion of truth that they've been trying to pull for years now, and possibly since forever. The same capital-N Narrative that necessitates people believing "Orange Man Bad" or that "No Civil Rights Due To Pandemic" also wants you to believe George Lucas Raped Your Childhood and JJ Abrams Is A Visionary. Because true visionaries are incompatible with the world they are trying to build.
Hollywood (and that includes the corporate media that relie$ on it) never forgave George Lucas for gaining his independence. And they've been attacking his character ever since.
Just watched this again. You are quite right that the ST ended with no major developments and Rey left to continue Luke’s journey.
I wonder if Abrams was the only director they asked a number of times? Disney got what they wanted and they have probably just turned a profit on the investment, but they will be pissed a the drop in revenue for each successive film.
There’s a documentary about the OT which implies Alan Ladd Jr. got fired from 20th Century Fox because, despite alone fighting to get the studio to back Lucas and all the money they made, the studio was pissed off they missed out on the lucrative merchandising profits! I’m sure it wasn’t just that but no doubt that played a role.
As someone who watched Lost when it was airing (the biggest nothingburger of a TV drama ever) and the two Star Trek reboot movies when they came out, I knew the Star Wars sequel trilogy was going to be garbage the moment they announced Abrams as director.
Honestly makes me feel a bit bad for Daisy Ridley. She seems like a fun and energetic person that's been shafted by Hollywood CEO/Director ego. Seems like a genuine excitement that should have been built upon, rather than stomped out. She's taken a fair brunt of the criticism from the fans, yet JJ seems to have come out (considering the mess he made) unscathed. The idea that Star Wars needs to be a "surprise" is nonsense that only somebody with a superficial understanding of the OT would think. Vader being Luke's Father was a surprise when the film released and is a decent revelation in the story but the prequels exist without any plot twists and people went to see those.
If you believe in the "Jar Jar was supposed to be a Sith" rumor, then this reveal would have been the twist had Lucas not wussed out because of fan backlash towards Jar Jar.
That's how I feel about pretty much all the actors involved. They're damn good and would have been perfect for the roles, but were let down by the Mouse.
So the key takeaway I got from this video is that Rey is the offspring of a passionate gay foursome between Qui-Gon Jinn, Darth Maul, C-3PO, and a jawa.
The actual takeaway though is that Rey reaaaally should've just been Han and Leia's daughter.
The ACTUAL actual takeaway is that Rey should've just stayed as Kira Solo, and they should've stuck with George's Sequel Trilogy idea from the beginning.
14:32 they really heard george lucas say “it’s like poetry, it rhymes” and then refused to understand what that means because to them, there is no prequel trilogy, so they can just disregard that and refuse to see how the rhyme structure of star wars works.
Refused to understand? Maybe George is just too hard to understand. I don't know how many people even see there's any rhyme structure, the franchise has a reputation of just being fun adventure, not some deeply structured masterpiece.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о It becomes a deeply structured masterpiece when people actually sit and start to realize Star Wars is more than just cool laser sword fights and a ton of "pew, pew, pew" onscreen. The problem is most Star Wars fans are cinematically illiterate, so when they actually have to analyze the films themselves and its story they are lost. Which is why the sequel trilogy was made the way it was made.
Since this video focuses so much on the family lineage aspect and Rey’s original parentage:
One of the shittiest and not-at-all discussed aspects of losing the extended universe and incorporating elements loosely into this film was that Luke’s son in the original ‘sequel’ comics was named Ben, which makes way more sense than Leia and Han making their son that.
They barely knew Ben/Obi-Wan Kenobi, why would they name their kid after him? It’s Luke who had the relationship with him!
Bang on!
Thank you for these videos. I’m glad you were upfront about The Rise of Skywalker as you made this prior to its release. These videos are so well written and put together. They’re some of the best rundown videos of what happened and likely happened regarding Disney’s Star Wars creation and production as well as to why George Lucas left and what was the very little stuff that they kept from Lucas’s treatments he wrote before they were primarily thrown out. You deserve more views and subscribers.
Pretty hilarious that you were wrong solely because you were giving them too much credit
I think the point you make about TFA being all potential and no substance really reflects my own experience. When I watched TFA I thought it was alright, but I liked it less and less even by the time I got to the theater parking lot. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that while it had some enjoyable moments in isolation (for example, I liked BB-8 a lot but replacing R2 didn't make a lot of thematic sense), and it mostly aped Star Wars's aesthetics, it wasn't really a satisfying self-contained story. How good TFA was would depend on the rest of the ST.
Then TLJ came out. My feelings on it as its own movie were strongly mixed. I liked some of it for being less of a retread, but even the best of these things were usually more deconstructive than constructive. If Kylo wasn't lying about Rey's parents then we feel like idiots for ever caring about this in TFA. And if he WAS lying we're no closer to the answer than ever. Neither alternative does any work to actually make TFA hit. It's now either a junk movie that wasted our time or the payoff is still up in the air.
At that point I found it hard to imagine TROS would be able to solve the issue. I hoped it would defy all expectation and succeed, but it would need to put two or even three movies' worth of content into a single movie. And sure enough what we got was a movie whose pacing broke the sound barrier but still failed. We had been led on all along.
I had the same feeling after watching TFA.
I was really hyped, because it was the first time I was watching Star Wars on big screen surrounded by other fans. But this first experience turned out to be not what I expected. I was in denial, I couldn't accept that Star Wars film can be just something average like any other blockbuster out there. I was stupid enough to watch it in cinema twice, on IMAX! Because I thought I missed something important from the first try. But this second time changed nothing, TFA had no story to enjoy, it showed nothing new, it felt just empty. It was wrong from the first seconds of reading the crawl. Where is the republic? How heroes from OT could allow this to happen? How is it possible that New order came out of nowhere? (as you can see, ST was ruined from the beginning)
And I did it again when TLJ came out. I gave it a chance. And I regret I paid for this garbage! I was hoping to find the answers to all "mystery" in TFA. But this time I felt like I was scammed. I couldn't believe what was happening on the screen.
I miss George Lucas. And I doubt that anyone can write stories and make films like he did. And I'm not blaming him for selling Lucasfilm, because it was the right thing to do for him and his team. He had to let it go to spend more time with his family. Family was always the main focus of Star Wars. I think we can learn something from it.
"Rey who?"
"Mr Rey Box"
🤣🤣🤣
It is not just Lucas’s treatments they discarded for the sequel trilogy. Disney threw out all of the Extended Universe SW material that had been created over decades - everything from comics to novels to video games to toy lines. There were tons of stories, characters, and ideas that could have been either loosely or closely adapted, and Disney ignored all of it, creating instead a shitshow.
"oh my god how dare didney use all these stuff from the eu when they can never hope to make anything as good as them such defilement"
@kubli What the fuck does this comment even mean? There is so much good material in the extended universe, and the majority of the fans would have been happy to see Disney adapt some of it. The fact that we didn't get to see Luke training a new generation of Jedi on the big screen is simply criminal misuse of the property.
They're just stealing it and reintegrating it in their shows with their own characters.
This guy looked at all the other Disney wars critiques, frowned, pulled down his weapons headset over his eyes and said, "target, maximum firepower!"
And so we've gotten the deepest penetrating salvo at Disney's abomination.
Disney is BASED
@@teamtundra2619Disney is CRINGE
@@Jiub_SN Disney is BASED
I never strongly suspected Han and Leia as Rey's parents because I couldn't fathom that Han and Leia would abandon her.
Congratulations. You've thought through the story of the Sequel Trilogy more than all of the people actuall responsible for it combined.
I couldn’t conceive of how they wouldn’t be out looking for her, especially if she’d been kidnapped, stolen or whatever.
Easy, fake her death and then use Snoke/dark side to conceal her just like Palpatine concealed his identity
The Han at the end of Return of the Jedi wouldn't abandon Leia, his entire arc was being someone willing to do anything to help his friends and TFA reverted him back to the start of A New Hope. Luke wouldn't give up on Kylo either. They didn't just subvert expectations, they crapped all over them and didn't know what they were doing.
I think Han and Leia were supposed to be the parents of Rey, but JJ Abrams had no clue how to reveal or explain that information, so Rian Johnson was stuck with trying to solve that mystery box.
Please come back nerdonoynous
“My name’s not Shane, kid!”
💥🔫
This dude needs to change the battery in his smoke detector.
Lmao I heard it too and now I'm worried thats why we haven't seen him in 3 years
Glad I’m not the only one that noticed! At first thought it was one of my smoke detectors and it was driving me crazy lol
Finally!! I felt pretty lonely saying that sequels were doomed by JJ in TFA. The entire setting was dumb to begin with plus JJs style of writing the middle of the story without any clue about the beginning or end and leaving that to future-JJ or whoever has to take care of whatever mess he left.
However, RJ had the chance to bring coherence to the trilogy, but he chose not to. He chose to decorate the sinking ship beautifully instead of repairing and saving it.
Ultimately however, Disney's insanity of pushing as much Star Wars content out in as little time as possible is really at fault. They had all the time in the world and they chose to be impatient. Almost like the mindset of a certain mystical group...
I was with you. I realized the moment they abandoned Lucas' plan and moved the date back that it was over. It would be a rush job and it was done by JJ Abrams. That was all I needed to know to not even see it on release, and when everyone seemed to like it I borrowed my cousins Blu-ray and realized I was so right. TLJ showed everyone, and somehow JJ got away Scott free even with ROS. I should feel vindicated, but I'm just so fuckin sad ab it
Literally everyone: "We need a plan for the trilogy!"
JJ Abrams: "Do I look like a guy with a plan?"
What I learned from this video is Rian is too honest a guy to act like JJ's BS wasn't BS, so he made a movie that was openly, brazenly BS right down to its title and laughed about it all the way.
The thing with the Vader twist in the original trilogy was that it wasn't information withheld (a Mystery Box) and then revealed because the audience wasn't expecting to be corrected on something they thought they already knew. You got information from Obi Wan Kenobi and you took it at face value, but the reveal came as a complete surprise. They even had to clarify it in Jedi because people didn't believe it. Rey's parents (as stated in the video) shouldn't have been a mystery to begin with. What's the point? It'll just be a watered down version of the Vader reveal.
JJ plants seeds, but doesn't bother to water them in the narrative. Rian tried (I guess), but you just end up with blue ball syndrome and you either lose interest or build it up where the answer can't ever reach the hype.
(Well having watched the whole video now it's pretty much summed up in there)
Love the reference to Lucas' car accident at 1:36:46, shows how much you care.
I did not know where that was from!
Ah, so my suspicions on what that photo was have finally been confirmed!
The fact that TLJ copy/pastes the major plot points of ESB was one of the things I hated most about it:: rebels must evacuate and are pursued through space; protagonist goes to remote planet for 'training' from reluctant master but leaves early to save friends; rebels visit affluent city and are betrayed by swindler type; antagonist asks protagonist to join forces after revealing details of family lineage; land battle with AT-AT walkers on white planet; defeated remnants of rebel alliance regroup for next movie...
How does this video not have more traction? Its incredible. Please please continue making more videos and promoting your petition. Its one of the best things ive seen in awhile
Absolutely brilliant. God, these videos make such a sad story on the surface so much sadder. Absolutely criminal that these videos do not have more views.
It feels like I’m seeing a Game of Thrones at work.
Disney buys Star Wars, hires some potential directors; one director, JJ capitalizes to become the head of Star Wars to tell his vision and rule it as his own.
When he fumbles with story telling, they have another director come in, Rian to direct the next movie, and while Rian is a pawn, Rian himself has his own ambition and visions so uses what was told of him and puts his own ideas further on how he thinks Star Wars is visioned
Once he tanks, and the reputation is besmirched, Disney panics and JJ capitalized again to swoop in to “Correct” under the safety net that he’s course correcting, and is doing the best he can, knowing he won’t be as blamed and that he’s trying to “save” the series
And in the aftermath, in capitalizes Kathleen Kennedy to step in to take over any future Star Wars under her message and ambition, and rule Star Wars her way with Disney backing her. Leaving Rian and JJ in the dust, until they find their own ways back in with whatever project comes next.
JJ gets a pass, Rian is dishonored, Kathleen Kennedy is in a more reinforced dominant position, and the Disney corporation takes what profit it can get from the franchise being pulled apart and picked at, made into spin offs and retcons
If this was fiction this would be fascinating, but it’s real………not so romantic when it’s happening in the present and future of the real world
Wow 2 hours ago lmao. Hey man.
... Gotta say, Kylo double agent is a good revelation, though as you seem to agree I don't think it makes much sense given what we see in the latter half of epVIII, even if in theory yeah he could just be roleplaying or lying.
And yeah, no matter how (rightfully) hated Rian is, it's abhorrent that people believed epVII was somehow good or a good start, and how much time was needed for people to understand that JJ hacked the sequel trilogy from the get go, with or without epVIII
Amazing analysis. Opened my mind in so many ways. I’ve always been accepting of George Lucas’s story no matter what, it’s his story nobody else’s.
I knew disney would distort Star Wars.
Thank you Sir.
Well, unfortunately he decided to sell his story to Disney for a fuckload of money. So if it started as his it definitely isn't anymore. And ultimately I'm most annoyed with him. When you make art, even if it's shit (prequels), you keep working at it. You don't take money to compromise on your vision the way he did and then feign surprise when they shit on your work.
@@schwartzschild2908 I mean, most if not all of the money went to charity so there's that.
Also, mattters aren't as simple as you think they are. Some 'fans' harassed him. GL got a lot of hate. And not only that, but he was old and he wanted Star Wars to live on, so to speak.
@@VibingMeike I never thought "matters" were simple. Preserving your artistic integrity is never simple, much less easy. Lucas had a lot of options at his disposal for making sure his vision and ideas were adhered to. Thats the latitude afforded by wealth. Namely the sales terms. Unfortunately he failed to take the steps necessary to safeguard what he presumably cherished. And at this juncture it's clear that no sequels are better than what we ended up with.
But please, spare me the "he got a lot of hate." He's been getting that for literally decades since he nonsensically marred his original films with brainless additions, yet he pressed on.
If not making Lucas's sequel trilogy, I would hope they at least release the material that had been produced for it.
Or at least let us know what the outline for the episodes would have been. Lucas already gave us an idea of the world he wanted to set up in the Star Wars Archives, but the exact story itself is somewhat murky
But when the fans needed Nerdonymous the most...he vanished.
You should make a part three for The Rise of Skywalker, and perhaps videos about The Mandalorian, Rogue One, and Solo, if you think those would make for compelling videos. All three of your Star Wars videos are so well-made, so I’d love to see more.
The fact they couldn’t come up with a real lineage for Rey because Carrie passed away is utter bullshit! These hacks are literally the most uncreative assholes on the planet! Derp let’s bring back PALPATINE derp Carrie died derp derp
Boy, I sure would love to hear your complete thoughts on the prequels.
Exactly my thoughts, after watching his 3 amazing takes, I need him to make prequel videos, fleshed out responses to RLM, and maybe talk about EU stuff and Clone Wars.
@@barfyman-wn3id I still think the Mr. Plinkett videos offer the best explanation for why people don't like the Star Wars prequels. However, I feel some of Mike Stoklassa's opinions, regardless of whether they're supposed to be delivered in character, are bizarre. His reasoning for why Samuel L. Jackson was cast comes to mind. Personally, I don't like the prequel trilogy, but I am a moderate fan of the Clone Wars cartoon. Both of them actually. And I still enjoy some of the stories from the old EU. Star Wars has such a vast amount of stories across all forms of media. It's a cliché expression, but there really is something for everyone.
@@germanchocolatecake8143 "If I was Obi-Wan, I would kill Luke" - Mike Stoklasa
He pretty much tips his hand at the end of the video.
Once again, exceptional videos (Part 1 & 2). What is the likelihood you’re going to do a third on SW: The Rise of Skywalker? I’m dying to not only see your follow up regarding the whole complex mess, but your thoughts or insight regarding Colin Trevorrow’s version. It doesn’t require a mystery box to see there’s plenty of drama to unpack.
There are fifteen ceiling bird chirps in the intro of this video.
Guess we know something about who Nerdonymous is after all.
Lolol 🤣 noooo!
Are people still seriously making this joke? It's been 4 years, for Christ's sake.
@@occam7382 Joke?
little late to the party... but these were excellent videos. kudos for all your effort.
I think this irrefutably proves that star wars only worked because of Lucas if he was the moron that people said he was the sequel trilogy should be flawless pieces of writing
Beautifully said my friend, beautifully said. George Lucas IS Star Wars, and only HE can truly make a Sequel Trilogy that is faithful to the fundamental core of the Saga. The filmmaking and storytelling quality in The Prequels and Originals in comparison to the Sequels is baffling - they are millions of times better in everyway, and although Rian Johnson tried his best to be faithful to Lucas' filmmaking philosophy in The Last Jedi - a film I utmost respect as trying to do something different in Star Wars - it's Abrams, Kennedy and Disney which brought the whole trilogy down. I'm so depressed that George never made the Sequels, I really am. If only, if only...
@@Wackaz agreed
Lucas is a moron. Look at the prequels and special editions. Disney is no worse
I feel so bad for the main three actors in the sequel trilogy. Feel like they got shafted so much. Anyway, this video is a fairly good, and its interesting to see how your arguments hold up well even with the retrospect they were unfortunately incorrect. Its impressive as is. I really like your channel, and hopefully you have the ability to continue with new video topics. I know I'll watch no matter what you put out.
Wow, now that I think about it, Abrams probably REALLY didn't want to return to direct on 9.
He opted to do only TFA and then hop out instead of seeing the trilogy through to its conclusion. Jump off a ship that could potentially sink if he stayed on it and let someone else deal with any issues that arose.
Abrams is good at setting up mysteries, but he sure as hell doesn't want to provide answers to them.
Imagine his reaction when he was hired to not just return to Star Wars, not just to satisfy a polarised fanbase, not just to wrap up the 9 episode saga, but to ultimately provide ANSWERS for his mysteries! That was going to be someone else's job!
"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!".
You mean fascist facsimiles?
And how is he "not good at setting up mysteries", if he wasn't then ppl wouldn't bchd and moaned about how disappointing Alias or Lost were, or how much Ruin ruined those set-ups, since no one would care lol
Looks like someone's got a dog in the fight here lmfaol
@@username45739 jj set up mysteries he had not intention of answering and if you had to write the next movie you would have trouble coming up with a satisfactory answer.
@@username45739 again he had no set up he just made these mysteries to get asses in seats aka marketing like nerdonymous said.
@@spearfisherman308 " jj set up mysteries he had not intention of answering"
My point was that he did a good job setting those up, or else no one would've gotten hyped for next product (and then "let down", to put it a slightly mildly);
your response doesn't address that at all, however it seems like that's how it happened, so yeah
@@username45739 no he didn't setting up doesn't equal good the fact that you got hyped is part of the marketing con and means he doesn't have to do any work, good set gives us the world and the rules that ot plays by the prequels did this in episode 1 by showing how the republic was inept due to corruption at handling the nano crisis and allows for palpatine to get his claws into power
"How many times have you watched this"? Yes.
I think it's not articulated enough that the reason for changing Rey's parentage was Carrie Fisher's death. I caught it in the beginning of the video, but it was never elaborated on. Do you think that they planned to bring Snoke back and reveal that Rey is Leia's daughter, but then Carrie died and they couldn't meaningfully resolve this plotline so they brought back their only option for significant lineage - Palpatine? Because this is really big if true.
Also what do you think of the theory "Crait was first"? It supports your idea of all movies being the rehashes of the OT, and the 8 was supposed to end immediately after Snoke's death, staying consistent with "Kylo is a double agent" theory?
"Do you think that they planned to bring Snoke back and reveal that Rey is Leia's daughter, but then Carrie died and they couldn't meaningfully resolve this plotline so they brought back their only option for significant lineage - Palpatine?"
Yes. 100%. I think that is exactly why they changed it. And it's stupid as sh*t.
Why exactly couldn't they get Mark Hamill to help resolve the issue in place of Carrie Fisher's death? They would still be blood relatives and clearly Mark Hamill wants to play a mentor role instead of being shoved aside.
They needed A legacy character as means of explaining Rey’s existence
If Carrie was alive they would have probably fleshed it out more (despite the damage to the saga already being done) but of course she passed away and, again, JJ needed a recurring character in the saga to close it off: to BS a legit conclusion to a now 9 part story
Upon rewtach of the whole saga, Got threw 1-6 and watched solo and rogue one as well, and everything had a flow to it, as soon as 7 started and ended I finally realized just how blind I was when it came out, tfa is a terrible sequel to the originals, it does world build, it doesnt care to build on what came before, it is not a true continuation of the saga, it's not a story that needed to exist, the story that needed to exist was seeing Leia rebuild the galaxy and the new republic, seeing Luke and the next generation of skywalkers and solos dealing with the lagacy of what came before, dealing with new threats, thats the story that was actually needing to be told, at the end of the day the sequels are not worth rewatching, it ended it six, Thats why I dont want the shows like the mandalorina to have to be tied down in explaining the dogshit writing jj abrams did in the sequels, I was them to take things in a new direction after the return of the jedis ending and be free to tell what actually happened
It's nice to see people figure this out even if late. After I watched TFA I knew it was a bad Sequel and would cause problems for the following movies. All the idiots saying it needed to be a soft reboot didn't realize how badly that would age. 10, 20, 50, 100 years from now someone is going to watch the Star Wars Saga for the first time and hit TFA and just be utterly confused. The rehash nature of it would be even more apparent than ever since they didn't have any decades long wait. It was a real crowd pleaser for Star Wars fandom in 2015, but all that gooey nostalgia wasn't going to mean anything to a first time Star Wars fan. Worst of all a story about hope becomes a story of despair and nihilism. After six you're hopeful about the future and in TFA nothing has changed, actually it's gotten worse. The whole point of the OT is that they were the generation that made the right choices, that got it right in respect to the Prequels and they still completely and utterly failed at everything. Our new heroes have done nothing different, so why should we believe they'll be better off 30 years from now not all separated and fighting another evil Empire.
Actually.. as of to this day (mid 2023) I haven't watched Ep.IX...not in cinemas, not in video, not downloaded.
I honestly do not give a fuck anymore.
JJ's Mistery Box ultimate failure. 😂
I started it, quit midway 🤦♂️
I almost didn't see it. I wish I didn't.
I can recommend it as a comedy movie, i laughed my ass from beginning to end, especially a scene in a desert planet where pigs laugh, yes there's a scene like that in the movie
I watched the ytps of rise of Skywalker, then I watched it on Disney Plus while in anticipation of CloneWars saved so I could understand the joked better
Rian Johnson when writing episode 8 : - His planets were clones of the original trilogy, his Supreme Leader Snoke was another emperor, his story for episode 7 is only a teaser with nostalgia baits, the origins of Rey have no answers, et voilà. It all adds up. Like everyone I assumed that JJ Abrams was a complicated genius, but now I look at the center of this glass onion, and I understand. JJ is an idiot.
The fact rians career didn’t burn to the ground and he went on to create a wholly original franchise is impressive
As a wounded Star Wars fan (ie like everyone) I was crying with relief at this video at how the pointlessness of a "SEQUEL TRILOGY" now makes more sense, it would have been even better if Star Wars was called Apocrypha! THANK YOU! BTW plz make part 3 of how it should have been done... PLEASE! (Also protect this video from the inevitable takedown!!!!)
There was a plan… an outline of one. But a plan. A LOST plan. But still a plan. The story of Abrams's career. I would have loved to see George’ version or Michael Arnet’s original script for the last three trilogy.
Part of me agrees but remember George only gave them drafts of 7-9 because the existence of the sequels was an inevitable, not because he actually wanted them to exist. They would likely be better films than the disaster we got, but the *actual first* major storytelling misstep was selling Star Wars to Disney in the first place rather than not going with the creator's plan. Star Wars was already a complete story from 1-6, there never needed to be 7-9. They were imagined out of obligation first and a passion for storytelling second. Before selling, George had been asked to make episode 7 many times and has said there is no story left to tell.
@@polyman6859 Micheal Arnet’s completed screenplay was based on George’s conversations with him and original story outline notes for 7, 8 and 9.That is what was rejected. This was the conclusion I arrived. to after doing the research. It is a shame. it was a chance to have all the original characters return for one last trilogy. Instead of a “mystery box” of “shock and awe” of misdirected emptiness and meaningless plot points
@@MDarkraven Agree, we should've gotten Arnet's adaptation of Lucas' drafts. This two part video is the biggest redpill I've ever swallowed. It was in all likelihood, JJ Abrams' fault for the downfall of 7-9. Jett Lucas could pull a Tolkien's son and tell us the real story since he knew it but I wouldn't keep my chin up. The hope for Star Wars is in video games, animation, novels, and comic books.
I saw Force Awakens on opening night, and I was the only one seated near me who wasn’t thrilled. I was glad to eventually discover that I wasn’t alone in seeing what a missed opportunity it was. Great acting and production value, but no innovation.
Same; while my friends were cheering, I was exposing how it was a shite remake of new hope, taking elements and combining them randomly. I actually got through to a few of them right after we left, and we kept talking shit on the movie and pissing off this loser that loved it
@@pyropulseIXXI I had the exact same experience with my friends after the midnight showing. Absolutely recycled garbage. I went on a fucking tirade for about three hours as soon as the lights went up. None of my movie-going compatriots were left standing.
@@TheCapedWanderer I have a cousin. She saw TFA when she was 7 and hated it. I asked her why, (I didn't like it either, but I wanted to know why) and she told me it felt like a hollow copy without the magic. She still stands by that today
@@officialmonarchmusic fr even new kids dislike these films
@@megalord2598 The reaction at my school is a little bit mixed, but yeah, for the most part, kids either hate the sequels, are indifferent to them, or like them but don't love them the way kids felt about the prequels growing up. That's not an accident. Ther's more to making kids love and be impacted by something than most will give credit for.
So J.J Abrams was the real villan all along.
Huh, someone else with almost the same perspective as me. I couldn't stand 7, I remember actively disliking it *while* watching it. I had some problems with 8 but basically came to the same conclusion as you, there was nothing Johnson could really do. His movie was guaranteed to suck.
I left the theatre for 8 saying I wouldn't ever watch another JJ film.
I still haven't.
despite TLJ being such a mess and Rian's response to the backlash being...less than humble, I think the guy is a much better director and much more talented that J.J. and I'm happy that he's doing so well with Knives Out and its sequels. I just wish he and Abrams would've never gotten involved with Star Wars.
@@sunsetman22 I agree. I have a bigger issue with Rian as a person than I do him as a director. Now JJ? I genuinely believe he is a shit director. But I don't particularly have problems with him as a person.
That said, I would much rather neither one touched Star Wars. Though I lean heavily towards the directors aren't the biggest problem with the sequels.
My main problems still are the way TFA ends (barely showing luke, after waiting the whole movie ) Han Solo getting killed the way he did, then the way TLJ totally undid what little was buildt up, then ROS undid all of that because of the backlash. So in the end . It was all a billion dollar waste of time and not a single scene or movie that included all the og characters
@BK Beatty No. He is a hack. He has exactly two tools. Mystery boxes and special effects. Mystery boxes are shit in almost all cases and his special effects get boring very quickly.
I can literally think of no director who has been handed franchises and has consistently ruined them more than JJ. Further, I can't think of a movie of his that I thought was *decent*, let alone good. I grew up on Star Wars and Star Trek, if there was ever a series that I was going to go into a theatre expecting to enjoy a movie, it would have been those. Without exception, I have always left JJ's movies thinking they were terrible.
@BK Beatty No, it isn't a writing issue, it is a JJ issue. He himself has gone on about mystery boxes and how he uses them in every movie he directs.
He is good at making crap movies. He is awful at everything else.
"Don't let potential be written on your tombstone." - An Individual JJ Never Heard Of