You call this a detailed teardown? Go Watch Texas Speed and Performance tear down Cleetus' world record engine. That I can watch, this (cylinder head building part aside) quite boring.
billiondollardan guess I miss understood. I thought you meant this was a detailed tear down. I notice a lot of their videos don’t have much for wrenching. Just a bunch of talking.
@@andycocchia4202 well dude I went to texas speed and performance right after your comment lol. That's an amazing video. Thanks for sharing because I had not seen it before
I'm a retired Master Engine Machinist and I've assembled hundreds if not thousands of engines and let me just say that it was a nice thing to see that you used the speed wrench and not any air tools when assembling the engine. Someone who knows does NOT use air tools when assembling engines. The speed wrench is your friend. You have to be able to feel everything when turning bolts/nuts.
The NOS runs probably came real close to lifting a ring and cracked a ring land . I’m disappointed that we didn’t see the cylinder head damage or cylinder bore damage.
Exactly my thoughts. The poor dog was about to have a failure from the NOS and the Timer just went off. I want to know how much went through that blower. I've seen the results of catastrophic failure on a roots blower. The smallest of pieces will total a rotor.
the piston was torched, not broken from ring butting. granted there are some solid imprints, but the piston melted first. after the loss of compression of a ring butting the aluminum is not going to pile up flakes like that. the fuel was not adequate for the cylinder pressure of 11% overdrive and 10:1 compression.
Aluminum heat treat the opposite of steel. When you heat up to 600, 700 degrees and up and then quickly cool, it anneals. The nitrous runs with helium quenching does it. Add ring gap and a few other problems and it all ads up.
I have a 350 SBC with cheap sterling cast flat top pistons that years ago it developed a slight vibration and it always ran smooth, I didn't know why but it was minor enough and it didn't burn oil have excessive blow bye it ran perfect so I didn't bother worrieing I just ran it and for quite awhile. One day I pulled the heads to replace them and there was a chunk missing off a piston very similar tho that just not quite as big but I could see part of the ring. I went to the local carquest asked if they could order one and they had a .030 one on the shelf for $15! I had it pressed on I think I may have swapped the rings over to the new piston and whahlah perfect. It was from temporarily using 67cc 305 heads I had tossed on to get it running and I was being cheap and ran 87 in it now n then... The compression ratio must have been 10:1 ish and yeah 87 not a good combo, but I was a kid and was broke all the time and it bit me.
Pat is the kinda guy you see at the track and make fun of his pocket pens. Then you see him rebuilding a motor that by the end of the weekend runs the fastest time.
Dude ripped his tape measure from his belt and used it to point at the screen. It was the exact same motion you'd expect a special forces soldier uses to draw his sidearm.
Having owned a 383 in a 71 jimmy, my opinion is its a high torque motor not designed to be revved out, broke engine mounts then distributor would hit firewall on old gmc firewall. Mine was carbed mated to old 3 spd 373 gears 4 inch lift 33 mudders, wolverine cam. Still not a wind up motor and good for 420 hp 440 tq. Bright orange sold it to guy in riverside after roughing it up since build.
Challenge Accepted... 🍺🍺What sort of time table are we talking? Slowly, over the twenty-one minutes of the video? I have beer, but I want to enjoy it slowly... College was a long time ago... 😎😎
Haha, its the color you painted it!! We painted on the same green for a dirt track car, and it went boom. Unfortunately we didn't get it shut down fast either!!
BEST TEAM TO WATCH!!!! Mike and Pat kill it every episode!!! the haters are gonna hate.......i like the green......be different BE BOLD!!! ageing well gentlemen....god bless
My father and sister have been hemming and hawing for years about what sbm mopar heads to get for their project together, and I'm going to steer them to trick flow. I'm glad you included that segment in the video, and I'm glad I found it. thanks
I'm glad you showed this because things happen if you build enough of em something will eventually go awry. at least you had it on the dyno and not in the truck that really sucks!
I never get bored watching this kind of videos over and over again.. especially when a v8 was fitted with a supercharger.sorry for my bad English.excellent video
Ya , you'd think these folks would have covered 'End Gap' in spades. That and 'blower pistons' with top ring abit lower down for land strength and more 'heat shelter'
It was a pitty that they did not strip it and measure ring gaps for each cylinder. Then at least for the next build we would know a good clearance to stay above. Also give some idea of whether clearances piston ring manufacturers supply are where we should be. If there was plenty of ring gap then you could argue that the top ring needs to be lower in the bore for a thicker top section.
Fellows - I used to have to make slush baths at different temperatures for conducting radiation studues on hydrocarbons. So we need a selection of organic solvents to satisfy our need for a variety of slush temperatures. I froze them all down with liquid nitrogen. I had some very nice thermocouples potted in silicone rubber for confirming the slush temperatures. But CYCLOHEXANE just ate off all the silicone every time. The only one of my solvents to do it. Later I found it was excellent for taking the glue residue off sidewindow glass from those stick-on plastic frost preventers for car and truck and huge rig operations in the Prairie Provinces where she goes down to minus 60 degrees in December and January. Cyclohexane will eat that stuff right off the glass licketty split. Keep a bottle around your shop. It is highly flammable, however, and evaporates really quickly. Store it in a fairly tight-fitting cardboard box inside a metal storage locker. No smoking when using it. I hope that helps.
I love all the detailed explanations. I want a sbc 327 crank in a .030" over 400 block high-rpm motor build up from you guys. Somewhere close to 10,000 rpm. If Bill Jenkins can do it with late 60's early 70's technology it can easily be done with today's high-performance parts. Sure you can make more HP with other combos, but a fast rapping high rpm sbc is hard to not like. All info can be found on the net.
1000 hp per liter has been achievable since the 80's. The car on my photo only makes 4000 h.p.. And it does it with 440 cubes. If you make a motor efficent at 10k how well does it run at 3k? Don't know anyone that has a rpm goal not an actual power output goal. I don't think you want to spend the money needed for that.. Carrillo crank and rods? Daley vacuum pumps, billet windage tray this is actually somebody that has been to alot of these places for parts and have been around builds you sound like you dream of. My good friend hand built the 1st and 2nd place viper orca motors at le mans..he and his friends ran the car in my photo. Also developed the v8 the viper raced with in the trans am series.. No v10s allowed in trans am.
Same thoughts here , if things are going to smoothly its its like a warning light for me to double check . Even by doing every thing right the unexpected bites me in the ass more often than not . But anyways we have to go on . Stay safe every one .
I did that too, lifted a ring land on my 1st LS1 with a Magnuson I kept going to a smaller pulley until i ran lean when the meth injector got clogged. Spark plug was broken, pulled the head and piston looked just like yours. we digested that broken part. And cracked the Cylinder sleeve. so ... When with Iron Block, Mahle Pistons, H-Beam Rods and Crane Valve parts. Went 525 HP over 140,000 miles when built right they will last. D
I would have been perfectly happy with the 560hp they had before the blower. The stock trans would have had problems with that. I like the green. With black it would look great.
Also while setting up this and tuning it any backfire can cause this on hypereutectic piston . I don't no why I see a lot of this with hypereutectic piston . I took one apart the guy put together and was there when it back fired and ran like crap. He brought it to my garage to take apart and it was broken just like this and was a fresh rebuild with just a carb on it. Also the ring was broken in 3 pieces but not a scratched on the cylinder. We put 8 forged pistons in it and it ran for over 10 years. And he beat on it but took care of it also.
He said "who knows what happened there?" while the camera points directly at the piston showing obviously broken piston due to ring expansion. That supercharger develops a ton of heat.
I have a turbocharged 383 . I use the right stuff to seal everything I can. That stuff is awesome. I would of choosen a duramax or cummins if I were in those guys shoes.
You are correct sir . Poor gaps over boost and starting with to much compression with a roots charger it should only be 10 : 1 comp at the most these guys have Hollywood money so I dont think they do anything right it's all scripted and rehearsed
@@Kill-Dozer they must think the combustion chamber becomes a nut chopper and chops up those aluminum chunks into flakes. lol the flakes on the spark plug were melted on there not from being sliced and diced.
One has to consider the piston material and how far down the piston ring groves sit, compression, and intended use. I set ring end gap on street performance 383s to .024" but I've gone as far as .032 on a dedicated towing truck motor.
I'm not an engine builder but I've watched a lot of youtube so here it goes. Do you think that the piston ring gap was too tight? Looks to me like the ring expanded, bound, lifted and blew a chunk out of the piston.
@@Sir.VicsMasher I don't want to watch it. I'm going by the fact you said the gaps were set at .024. Blower gaps need to be in the .030+ range. Blowers make huge heat and heat means expansion, expansion means even bigger gaps. Simple really. They should've known this. It died because the rings closed up.
@@1996slamster I recommended it because it shows that they were gapped per Mahle recommendation card for up to 14psi of Supercharged boost or +150hp of nitrous.
FINALLY.! I GET TO SEE A MOTOR GO UP.IN SMOKE ON THIS SHOW.! For years I always thought that you guys would never show a motor blow up. That was cool well no it wasn't But yeah it was..lol Can't wait to see all put back together
One of those guys that thinks brand had anything to do with anything. Literally any motor can do whatever you want it to if it's built to do so. Has nothing to do with manufacturer.
@@coltonwancho6571 if you ask anyone who's built a straight six and 8 they will tell you that the 6 will be more torque capable nomatter what, 5l i6 vs 5l 8 and I said for all because they did a Chevy i6
"who knows what happened there" LOL. that was a good joke. You guys know very well what happened there - someone was sloppy. Thx for the video and showing the failure. So now bore is scored, head is probably damaged and conrod could be lightly bent.
I was expecting the crank was laying on the floor.. something catastrophic.. For the less astute among us, look at the end and how shiny underneath the pistons are.. not highly used like they claim.. and that is 100% a ring lifting failure, from the ends butting together.. I smell manufactured drama for tv, but that's just me
Doesn't really look out of place for some 300 dino pulls and a bit of random BS with as much fresh oil as they'd run through that thing. It's not like this thing has been someone's daily driver for 10 years with extended intervals.
@@atsernov do you have experience with a motor that has that amount of hours on it? I'd say their claiming around 300hrs of hard use.. no way they would be shiny..
@@stanleykendziorski7964 a few things to mention here from someone who has grown up building engines, it's the family trade. They said they had sprayed the piss out of this engine, it is well known that nitrous cleans carbon deposits, especially loose carbon, the engine has *almost* exclusively been used for dyno purposes, typically engines don't build and hold onto carbon as much during high intensity/rev short duration running. Duration is exponential to carbon buildup where as intensity is linear. And the third, they only used 93 with octane booster or legitimate race fuel in this engine. Most pump gas has the same additives so the octane rating doesn't matter to much for buildup, however octane booster especially the expensive brands have considerably better cleaning agents than pump gas. Race fuel is usually even better. I'm not saying you are wrong as I have never sat and put the same engine on the dyno hundreds of times but it is believable, and not outside the realm of possibility. Same way as how some claim it was ring gap that took a chunk out of the piston. When metal overheats it becomes softer and as soon as it melts even a little bit it can do two things: melt to the wall, or harden enough between strokes to chunk out like it did. But they never removed the piston to see if it properly melted. Though I doubt it was ring gap as they sprayed the piss out of the engine, and without the rings gaped for the spray it would have turned into a frag grenade.
@@stanleykendziorski7964 Some, actually. Maybe not dyno use, but, yes. Pro3 race engines, some street builds, some normal street engines. The one thing I've noticed is that the harder/hotter they were run, the cleaner they tend to look. At the end of the day, it's a minor detail that doesn't matter much anyway. What's the difference if it was one pull or 300 hours? Ultimately, I've not seen them commit many sins with their builds.
The back peddling was hilarious! "We were gonna give it away knowing it has been viciously thrashed... but now that it broke on us we'll do it right. " LMAO!
@@baby-sharkgto4902 Yes but nitrous oxide cools the the intake charge where a super-charger creates heat in the intake tract and more heat means more expansion. Therefor, super-charging requires larger ring gaps then nitrous oxide will.
Well I've been building engines for some time now and I'll tell you what it looks like to me not enough ring clearance ring Gap Rings touch piston goes pop
That was 100% ring gap's fault. I would like to have seen the piston out of the cylinder with an up-close inspection. Plus, those pistons didnt look "great", they looked used. My guess is the ring was not checked or gapped properly for this setup and/or was damaged on a previous run and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Makes for some good youtube though!
An install into a 62 Nova in it's first life. Then as a Dyno Mule, used and abused finally broke. The new 632cid Chevy Crate motors have been through dyno pulls to simulate 200 1/4 mile runs. Super stress eventually breaks any engine.
40 years ago, it took me 5 four hour nights to get the rings gapped on a 396 build I did. Every piston checked. Every ring gapped until exact spec by sealed power attained. Every valve spring height, every guide, every pushrod length. Every rocker contact tip. Main and rods. Cam and crank endplay. Deck height. And repeatable cc of each port and chamber. 60 man hours on one engine. Now I have a life. So, no time to build anymore of these types of money pits.
As far as the arguments about ring end gap, examine the ends of the rings: they can exhibit polishing wear from butting, without breaking the piston....If one bore was butting, others should too. The piston shoulda burned on the side of the piston by the exhaust valve. It looks like it failed next to the intake side of the piston. And, it doesn't look burnt, it looks shattered....Two other things, the rod ratio may be too "long" for that level of supercharging/BMEP, and, last, was this run on race gas?
This was NOT a used and abused motor lol. The tops of the pistons were brand spanking new clean. These clowns didn’t gap the rings properly. End of story.
I don't know about you, but I see lots of melted/eroded piston all over the inboard side of that piston crown. The area where the upper land "blows out" can sometimes indicate a cause. When you see a piston land blown out on the edge near the intake valve, it is a classic sign of detonation. Similarly a hole in the middle of a piston is likely preignition. Too small a ring gap cause a break out anywhere along the circumference. That piston was likely toast before that blower was installed as they talked about. Someone was overly optimistic on the nitrous use and remodeled a piston on the fly.
Detonation is certainly a possibility though it's hard to tell from the video, even though they do a decent close up. The big gouges are obviously from the chunk of piston that broke out, but what looks like detonation pitting around the edges could be carbon deposits. Shame they didn't show a close up of the bore to see if the typical vertical marking caused by ring butting was present.
You guys had already gapped for nitrous previously... what was the *very* last thing you did with it before this setup? Could you have had a little preignition that crushed the ring groove and trapped the top ring, but didn't run long enough after to have any effect until the blower started to give it some heat and push back on the weakened piston crown? When you take the piston out, look for anything trapped in the ring groove like little bits of gasket silicone...
Needed more ring gap guys.... Ring gap closed from the heat, buckled and popped that top of the piston... Heh, just noticed I was preaching to the choir... Cheers!
knowing Jeremy, would you really want him to help? he'd use a cutting torch to try to take off the gasket material! and carcass is a good name for his show, that's how all his builds end up.
You tore the top piston ring land off because you added a blower without opening the piston ring clearance on that top ring. When compression is increased, ring to cylinder drag increases. It pulled the top ring land off on the down stroke.
Looks like someone forgot to adjust the ring end gaps for boost maybe? Looks like ring gap failure. Always adjust the ring end gaps for boost. This will happen every time. Looks like nitrous maybe have started it and the blower finished it all. If you guys go on one of the engine masters episodes, they actually take a stock 305 chevy with the exception of different heads and I think the cam was different but overall it was stock otherwise. They pushed it to see how much nitrous it would take and boom.
I had a simular problem with a 1957 Dodge pick up with a 230 cubic inch engine, flathead engine , the piston shattered on the number 3 cylinder A new set of pistons, rings, and rod bearings and it was good to go again
I think the blower belts are slipping or vibrating just enough to throw a wrench in the over all proper timing of this engine and caused the engine to have a failure.
Nothing to do with it. That's a cogged belt, they don't slip. Even if it did, a slipping blower belt has nothing to do with timing and, if anything, reduces the stress on the engine. This was a pinched ring.
@@DieselDanZ51 Doesn't matter who made the rotors, they are still not the x-71 design, they are x-53 series design. The three lobe twist is the significant main difference between the two series. That would be like taking a 350's - 3.48 crank out, and putting in a Scat 302 - 3.00" crank and still calling it a 350. Then saying because it is a Scat crank it is still a 350.
@@bowez9 agree, putting in straight two lobet rotors is a backward step. They should have increased the twist like the TVS to improve efficiency not decreased it, that why they put the twist in to start with. We have the technology today they once didn't to make the twisted rotors, so there is no reason to resort to the primitive less efficient design. Hell you could even go one better and use Lysholm screw internals and make it a true positive displacement blower.
Maybe some viewers get bored with detailed tear downs, but I love it. I learn a lot from them
I agree I enjoy them and might. Learn something to. 👍
You call this a detailed teardown? Go Watch Texas Speed and Performance tear down Cleetus' world record engine. That I can watch, this (cylinder head building part aside) quite boring.
@@andycocchia4202 Did you even watch the video? They totally skip the tear down. That's the point. Most of us like watching the detailed work they do
billiondollardan guess I miss understood. I thought you meant this was a detailed tear down. I notice a lot of their videos don’t have much for wrenching. Just a bunch of talking.
@@andycocchia4202 well dude I went to texas speed and performance right after your comment lol. That's an amazing video. Thanks for sharing because I had not seen it before
I'm a retired Master Engine Machinist and I've assembled hundreds if not thousands of engines and let me just say that it was a nice thing to see that you used the speed wrench and not any air tools when assembling the engine. Someone who knows does NOT use air tools when assembling engines. The speed wrench is your friend. You have to be able to feel everything when turning bolts/nuts.
Yes, I always buy and read the accompanying book to any engine I'm rebuilding and not one of then recommends an air tool.
Considering some bolts needs certain psi
Im not even a engine builder and wouldnt use air tools on any part of building a engine I wanna feel what im doing
@@figgiefigueroa7372 What do you mean?
@@johnnymontana2536
I mean that when you have a bolt, you need to apply certain amount of pressure.
If not you can break it or it can be stripped
Ring gap wasn't setup to run a supercharger. Under boost the ring gaps start to close , if there's not enough room this will pop a piston land.
Agreed.
@@mitchnelsonperformance Was also wondering about why they didn't use dished pistons for the boost?
@@jezkrubeck8116 you don’t have to run a low compression ratio/dished piston with boost, it just helps.
@@jezkrubeck8116 helps the engine stay together that is
Hope to get those SBM heads one day. I like the TF Intake Manifold too. Using fully ported 974's and RPM Air Gap till then.
Boosted and nitrous applications require a wider piston ring gap because of increased heat. The ring gaps in this engine were too tight for boost.
Exactly
Engine master's ain't got nothing on power nation. I learn so much more from these humble guys.
Glad Mike stuck it out on Horsepower. He turned into a great show tech. Thanks for the uploads
Really appreciate seeing failures as well as victories. Love the content.
The NOS runs probably came real close to lifting a ring and cracked a ring land . I’m disappointed that we didn’t see the cylinder head damage or cylinder bore damage.
Exactly my thoughts. The poor dog was about to have a failure from the NOS and the Timer just went off. I want to know how much went through that blower. I've seen the results of catastrophic failure on a roots blower. The smallest of pieces will total a rotor.
Oh there is gonna be a second episode of this build coming. You can bet your piston rings that there will be a part two.
the piston was torched, not broken from ring butting. granted there are some solid imprints, but the piston melted first. after the loss of compression of a ring butting the aluminum is not going to pile up flakes like that. the fuel was not adequate for the cylinder pressure of 11% overdrive and 10:1 compression.
Yep. They might have had time to go deeper into the damage if they wasn't so busy filling their time up with infomercial B. S.
Aluminum heat treat the opposite of steel. When you heat up to 600, 700 degrees and up and then quickly cool, it anneals. The nitrous runs with helium quenching does it. Add ring gap and a few other problems and it all ads up.
So great to see this. Not a failure, just real life. Keep up the good work! Or fun!
I have a 350 SBC with cheap sterling cast flat top pistons that years ago it developed a slight vibration and it always ran smooth, I didn't know why but it was minor enough and it didn't burn oil have excessive blow bye it ran perfect so I didn't bother worrieing I just ran it and for quite awhile. One day I pulled the heads to replace them and there was a chunk missing off a piston very similar tho that just not quite as big but I could see part of the ring. I went to the local carquest asked if they could order one and they had a .030 one on the shelf for $15! I had it pressed on I think I may have swapped the rings over to the new piston and whahlah perfect. It was from temporarily using 67cc 305 heads I had tossed on to get it running and I was being cheap and ran 87 in it now n then... The compression ratio must have been 10:1 ish and yeah 87 not a good combo, but I was a kid and was broke all the time and it bit me.
Pat is the kinda guy you see at the track and make fun of his pocket pens. Then you see him rebuilding a motor that by the end of the weekend runs the fastest time.
Dude ripped his tape measure from his belt and used it to point at the screen. It was the exact same motion you'd expect a special forces soldier uses to draw his sidearm.
I get so much from these shows. One day ill build my own engine and swap it in my sleeper volvo. Love the green! Thanks you guys rock!!
@7:57 The pushrods don't look like they are going in the original locations to me. He has them all bundled up in his hand.
I thought the same thing when I saw that.
Well, yes, that was somewhat cringy to see...
@@Thraser999 stop saying that word.
I saw that too. He had a fist full of rod but if you listen it sounds like only the rockers were re used. Still a bunch of garbage acting.
Having owned a 383 in a 71 jimmy, my opinion is its a high torque motor not designed to be revved out, broke engine mounts then distributor would hit firewall on old gmc firewall.
Mine was carbed mated to old 3 spd 373 gears 4 inch lift 33 mudders, wolverine cam.
Still not a wind up motor and good for 420 hp 440 tq.
Bright orange sold it to guy in riverside after roughing it up since build.
I had a cocktail for every pen Pat has in his pocket.
And you can still type words? That’s surprising, you sir can drink
You may now be an alcoholic hahaha
Challenge Accepted... 🍺🍺What sort of time table are we talking? Slowly, over the twenty-one minutes of the video? I have beer, but I want to enjoy it slowly... College was a long time ago... 😎😎
@@daytona1073 shots of whiskey. Have at it.
alky!
Wish you would do a short video on the importance of proper valve adjustments. Show on Dyno power loss on loose valves
Here is one they did on hydraulic lifters
ua-cam.com/video/Bxw-8XtebM4/v-deo.html
I always wondered how they were able to cast the ports and passages into heads and manifolds. Nice!
“We can run it till it flushed parts out of it but we aren’t going to do that” famous last words
There was a lot of detonation marks on all 4 of those pistons. It got hurt when they sprayed it.
Haha, its the color you painted it!! We painted on the same green for a dirt track car, and it went boom. Unfortunately we didn't get it shut down fast either!!
BEST TEAM TO WATCH!!!! Mike and Pat kill it every episode!!! the haters are gonna hate.......i like the green......be different BE BOLD!!!
ageing well gentlemen....god bless
This show
green is not a chev color and looks like snot
I am a mopar fan from the 70's , but wanted to see the 383 Chevy today. I appreciate your mix and educate
Someone forget to re-gap the rings?
If rings touched it would be a broken piston not melted. The problem here was the piston material was annealed over time and thus softened the metal.
shottyshot it is a broken piston. It’s not melted.
shottyshot they didn’t gap the rings. Rookie mistake
@@mikeeagle2653 agree, it lifted a ring
They also didn't show the combustion chamber at close view. You can bet that required some repair replacement.
My father and sister have been hemming and hawing for years about what sbm mopar heads to get for their project together, and I'm going to steer them to trick flow. I'm glad you included that segment in the video, and I'm glad I found it. thanks
When you have to provide an engine/blower color disclaimer. To mitigate the OCD keyboard commandos. LOL.
Like you wouldn't bad mouth this color choice in person? You must be a mopar fanboi.
to be fair,thats just about the ugliest color ever to be thrown on a sbc
I'm glad you showed this because things happen if you build enough of em something will eventually go awry. at least you had it on the dyno and not in the truck that really sucks!
That piston has been damaged because of too tight a ring gap, no mistaking that damage.
I never get bored watching this kind of videos over and over again.. especially when a v8 was fitted with a supercharger.sorry for my bad English.excellent video
2:20 "We can run it until it flushes parts out. But we arnt going to do that".. 17:24 STOP STOP STOP STOP
I love grabber green. I painted my bike that color, 1980 goldwing I made into a naked wing custom
the trickflow segment was cool to watch.
It's called ring end gap. Geez. Ya'll need to start watching some Richard Holdener videos.
This has to be it. I was thinking the same
First thing that came to mind as well..as soon as I seen it
Agreed
Ya , you'd think these folks would have covered 'End Gap' in spades. That and 'blower pistons' with top ring abit lower down for land strength and more 'heat shelter'
These videos were made long before his series
17:00 is what we all clicked for.
I’ll save you 17 minutes.
The hero we need
It was a pitty that they did not strip it and measure ring gaps for each cylinder. Then at least for the next build we would know a good clearance to stay above. Also give some idea of whether clearances piston ring manufacturers supply are where we should be. If there was plenty of ring gap then you could argue that the top ring needs to be lower in the bore for a thicker top section.
18 and a half minutes of infomercial for two minutes of actual content. This is why I quit watching these shows on TV.
The bad metal music gets on your nerves and I’m a metal fan. But all these shows have generic metal background music.
Cookie cutter garbage.
Preach brother. Shows like this are horrible. Motortrend on demand is waayyy better
No one can take this seriously...
@@thomaspierce9374 Nicks Garage is here for those who want to see real people doing real stuff with Engines.
Got to look at the AFR per cylinder. Probably was running lean due to uneven fuel flow.
Now that's the best episode I've seen. You learn so much more when things go wrong. Unfortunately, that's how I usually do my learning.
Fellows - I used to have to make slush baths at different temperatures for conducting radiation studues on hydrocarbons. So we need a selection of organic solvents to satisfy our need for a variety of slush temperatures. I froze them all down with liquid nitrogen. I had some very nice thermocouples potted in silicone rubber for confirming the slush temperatures. But CYCLOHEXANE just ate off all the silicone every time. The only one of my solvents to do it. Later I found it was excellent for taking the glue residue off sidewindow glass from those stick-on plastic frost preventers for car and truck and huge rig operations in the Prairie Provinces where she goes down to minus 60 degrees in December and January. Cyclohexane will eat that stuff right off the glass licketty split. Keep a bottle around your shop. It is highly flammable, however, and evaporates really quickly. Store it in a fairly tight-fitting cardboard box inside a metal storage locker. No smoking when using it. I hope that helps.
Cyclohexane to remove silicone eh? Good tip and neat backstory; thanks!
It goes to show even the best run into problems.
Best is a loose term in this application..
These people are not even remotely close to the "best"..
best? good grief. with the ring gaps too close causing this damage? my 3 year old could have done better.
I love all the detailed explanations. I want a sbc 327 crank in a .030" over 400 block high-rpm motor build up from you guys. Somewhere close to 10,000 rpm. If Bill Jenkins can do it with late 60's early 70's technology it can easily be done with today's high-performance parts. Sure you can make more HP with other combos, but a fast rapping high rpm sbc is hard to not like. All info can be found on the net.
1000 hp per liter has been achievable since the 80's.
The car on my photo only makes 4000 h.p.. And it does it with 440 cubes.
If you make a motor efficent at 10k how well does it run at 3k?
Don't know anyone that has a rpm goal not an actual power output goal.
I don't think you want to spend the money needed for that..
Carrillo crank and rods? Daley vacuum pumps, billet windage tray this is actually somebody that has been to alot of these places for parts and have been around builds you sound like you dream of. My good friend hand built the 1st and 2nd place viper orca motors at le mans..he and his friends ran the car in my photo.
Also developed the v8 the viper raced with in the trans am series..
No v10s allowed in trans am.
Proof that in this world, it's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when" and it doesnt matter your experience level.
Same thoughts here , if things are going to smoothly its its like a warning light for me to double check . Even by doing every thing right the unexpected bites me in the ass more often than not . But anyways we have to go on . Stay safe every one .
These guys are known for throwing shoddy builds with massive budgets
I did that too, lifted a ring land on my 1st LS1 with a Magnuson I kept going to a smaller pulley until i ran lean when the meth injector got clogged. Spark plug was broken, pulled the head and piston looked just like yours. we digested that broken part. And cracked the Cylinder sleeve. so ... When with Iron Block, Mahle Pistons, H-Beam Rods and Crane Valve parts. Went 525 HP over 140,000 miles when built right they will last. D
I would have been perfectly happy with the 560hp they had before the blower. The stock trans would have had problems with that.
I like the green. With black it would look great.
Also while setting up this and tuning it any backfire can cause this on hypereutectic piston . I don't no why I see a lot of this with hypereutectic piston . I took one apart the guy put together and was there when it back fired and ran like crap. He brought it to my garage to take apart and it was broken just like this and was a fresh rebuild with just a carb on it. Also the ring was broken in 3 pieces but not a scratched on the cylinder. We put 8 forged pistons in it and it ran for over 10 years. And he beat on it but took care of it also.
You guys chose the perfect color for that blower/engine combo, and the black sets it off. Great job guys
The acting is top notch guys. Really... it's right up there with Freiburger & Finnegan!
He said "who knows what happened there?" while the camera points directly at the piston showing obviously broken piston due to ring expansion. That supercharger develops a ton of heat.
I have a turbocharged 383 . I use the right stuff to seal everything I can. That stuff is awesome. I would of choosen a duramax or cummins if I were in those guys shoes.
YOU DONE MESSED UP A-A-RON!!!
That looks like bad ring gaps. That was a chunk knocked out, not a melted piston.
My Mom used to tell me you're going to wear it out, just taking it apart and putting it back together so much. This one been around the block a bunch.
That looks like bad ring gaps. That was a chunk knocked out, not a melted piston.
That was my first thought, insufficient ring gap.
You are correct sir . Poor gaps over boost and starting with to much compression with a roots charger it should only be 10 : 1 comp at the most these guys have Hollywood money so I dont think they do anything right it's all scripted and rehearsed
100%. You can probably get away with 6-8lbs on a roots with stock rings and most heads, you hit 9 it's bound to happen.
LMAO!
@@Kill-Dozer they must think the combustion chamber becomes a nut chopper and chops up those aluminum chunks into flakes. lol the flakes on the spark plug were melted on there not from being sliced and diced.
I think ur right about the ring gap just surprised alot of people use 8 or 10 psi of boost on factory ring gapped engine without any negative affects.
I'd say the ring end gap was to tight, and it lifted the ring land
They built this engine to support nitrous and filed fit the rings to .024 in a previous episode.
@@Sir.VicsMasher it clearly wasn't enough
I call bullshit that the pistons weren't out.. look how clean and shiny those are still.. jus sayin
One has to consider the piston material and how far down the piston ring groves sit, compression, and intended use. I set ring end gap on street performance 383s to .024" but I've gone as far as .032 on a dedicated towing truck motor.
That blower case is CNC machined to look exactly like it was cast!
Your confused
The case was cast, then the raw casting was machined
I’m very surprised a modern sophisticated dyno like that wouldn’t have an auto shutdown when it sees a parameter so far out like that 😯
What would you look for that would have saved a ring land?
Agree,got a '67 Ford p/u,motor rebuild was great!
I'm not an engine builder but I've watched a lot of youtube so here it goes. Do you think that the piston ring gap was too tight? Looks to me like the ring expanded, bound, lifted and blew a chunk out of the piston.
They built this engine to support nitrous and filed fit the rings to .024 in a previous episode.
@@Sir.VicsMasher and should of had .030 to .032 gaps for the blower.
@@1996slamster Watch them build the original engine Season 6 Episode 9. Its titled [How Much Nitrous for 720HP in a Small Block]
@@Sir.VicsMasher I don't want to watch it. I'm going by the fact you said the gaps were set at .024. Blower gaps need to be in the .030+ range. Blowers make huge heat and heat means expansion, expansion means even bigger gaps. Simple really. They should've known this. It died because the rings closed up.
@@1996slamster I recommended it because it shows that they were gapped per Mahle recommendation card for up to 14psi of Supercharged boost or +150hp of nitrous.
If this was or wasnt NOs, ive seen this plenty. The fuel mixture went lean and detonation is what broke that piston
Carcass! I love that band!
My guy, Pat, pointing with a tape measure! love it!
It looks like you're building it for Gravedigger.
@Lassi Kinnunen think they run the world product block or the dart blocks
Enjoy the show guys.
When can yall do a 4.7 08 dodge build this 4.7 suppose to be more power than older versions. I need ideas
300+ dyno runs - that's amazing!
That's a lie...
I called that one. Had many motors were the side of piston comes unglued, as we say,. That probably happened on that last nitrous pass.
ring gap
FINALLY.! I GET TO SEE A MOTOR GO UP.IN SMOKE ON THIS SHOW.! For years I always thought that you guys would never show a motor blow up. That was cool well no it wasn't But yeah it was..lol Can't wait to see all put back together
Could you guys do a supercharged or turbocharged Ford 300 I wanna see that torque down low smash any small block Ford Chevy or Mopar
I would 100% watch that.
One of those guys that thinks brand had anything to do with anything. Literally any motor can do whatever you want it to if it's built to do so. Has nothing to do with manufacturer.
@@coltonwancho6571 if you ask anyone who's built a straight six and 8 they will tell you that the 6 will be more torque capable nomatter what, 5l i6 vs 5l 8 and I said for all because they did a Chevy i6
not gonna happen dool
@@trillrifaxegrindor4411 build up a 305 Chevy and come do some dynos and see I'll put 500$ on the table and you'll still lose on torque
"who knows what happened there" LOL. that was a good joke. You guys know very well what happened there - someone was sloppy. Thx for the video and showing the failure. So now bore is scored, head is probably damaged and conrod could be lightly bent.
I was expecting the crank was laying on the floor.. something catastrophic..
For the less astute among us, look at the end and how shiny underneath the pistons are.. not highly used like they claim.. and that is 100% a ring lifting failure, from the ends butting together.. I smell manufactured drama for tv, but that's just me
Doesn't really look out of place for some 300 dino pulls and a bit of random BS with as much fresh oil as they'd run through that thing. It's not like this thing has been someone's daily driver for 10 years with extended intervals.
@@atsernov do you have experience with a motor that has that amount of hours on it? I'd say their claiming around 300hrs of hard use.. no way they would be shiny..
@@stanleykendziorski7964 a few things to mention here from someone who has grown up building engines, it's the family trade. They said they had sprayed the piss out of this engine, it is well known that nitrous cleans carbon deposits, especially loose carbon, the engine has *almost* exclusively been used for dyno purposes, typically engines don't build and hold onto carbon as much during high intensity/rev short duration running. Duration is exponential to carbon buildup where as intensity is linear. And the third, they only used 93 with octane booster or legitimate race fuel in this engine. Most pump gas has the same additives so the octane rating doesn't matter to much for buildup, however octane booster especially the expensive brands have considerably better cleaning agents than pump gas. Race fuel is usually even better.
I'm not saying you are wrong as I have never sat and put the same engine on the dyno hundreds of times but it is believable, and not outside the realm of possibility.
Same way as how some claim it was ring gap that took a chunk out of the piston. When metal overheats it becomes softer and as soon as it melts even a little bit it can do two things: melt to the wall, or harden enough between strokes to chunk out like it did. But they never removed the piston to see if it properly melted. Though I doubt it was ring gap as they sprayed the piss out of the engine, and without the rings gaped for the spray it would have turned into a frag grenade.
@@stanleykendziorski7964 Some, actually. Maybe not dyno use, but, yes. Pro3 race engines, some street builds, some normal street engines. The one thing I've noticed is that the harder/hotter they were run, the cleaner they tend to look.
At the end of the day, it's a minor detail that doesn't matter much anyway. What's the difference if it was one pull or 300 hours? Ultimately, I've not seen them commit many sins with their builds.
Nitrous cool. Roots blower hot.
The back peddling was hilarious! "We were gonna give it away knowing it has been viciously thrashed... but now that it broke on us we'll do it right. " LMAO!
Need more end gap with a blower to allow for additional heat expansion. No zero gap rings allowed either.
Larger ring end gap is not specific to blowers. Larger ring end gap is needed with any power adder.
They built this engine to support nitrous and filed fit the rings to .024 in a previous episode.
@@Sir.VicsMasher if they ran this motor like they say, the ring gaps were well over .030" if they started at .024"
@@baby-sharkgto4902 Yes but nitrous oxide cools the the intake charge where a super-charger creates heat in the intake tract and more heat means more expansion. Therefor, super-charging requires larger ring gaps then nitrous oxide will.
Now that is someone who knows engines. Immediately shut down the dyno pull. Most operators don't stop until it blows up.
Yeah I'm sure this wasn't fake as garbage.
Well I've been building engines for some time now and I'll tell you what it looks like to me not enough ring clearance ring Gap Rings touch piston goes pop
Top ring installed upside down. Not the best pistons to use with a root style blower.
That was 100% ring gap's fault. I would like to have seen the piston out of the cylinder with an up-close inspection. Plus, those pistons didnt look "great", they looked used. My guess is the ring was not checked or gapped properly for this setup and/or was damaged on a previous run and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Makes for some good youtube though!
It wasn't as much ring gap as it was the nitrious that was used on this engine alot
Yes it was!
An install into a 62 Nova in it's first life. Then as a Dyno Mule, used and abused finally broke. The new 632cid Chevy Crate motors have been through dyno pulls to simulate 200 1/4 mile runs. Super stress eventually breaks any engine.
40 years ago, it took me 5 four hour nights to get the rings gapped on a 396 build I did.
Every piston checked. Every ring gapped until exact spec by sealed power attained.
Every valve spring height, every guide, every pushrod length. Every rocker contact tip. Main and rods. Cam and crank endplay.
Deck height. And repeatable cc of each port and chamber. 60 man hours on one engine.
Now I have a life. So, no time to build anymore of these types of money pits.
The aesthetics of the roots style blower is Never boring.
I love watching theses guys
the engine looks good with the color combo. anything worth building, is worth over building...even if it's just cosmetic💪
2:20 we can run it til it flushes parts
Motor: bet
@@bigboreracing356 Bet money son
@Wikkitt Klown Agreed. It seems like every video on UA-cam has that stupid 'bet' or 'hold my beer' comment. It's getting old....
17:00 is what we all clicked for.
I’ll save you 17 minutes.
As far as the arguments about ring end gap, examine the ends of the rings: they can exhibit polishing wear from butting, without breaking the piston....If one bore was butting, others should too.
The piston shoulda burned on the side of the piston by the exhaust valve. It looks like it failed next to the intake side of the piston. And, it doesn't look burnt, it looks shattered....Two other things, the rod ratio may be too "long" for that level of supercharging/BMEP, and, last, was this run on race gas?
This was NOT a used and abused motor lol. The tops of the pistons were brand spanking new clean. These clowns didn’t gap the rings properly. End of story.
Chris Smith facts
Proof?
The clowns are both engineers with a combined 60 years of experience.
Chris Smith possibly. Interesting that they didn’t go into the CAUSE of the failure. Or is that still to come?
@@vegeto186 Then why do they act like clowns?
So are they going to show us the complete damage? The head surely got hurt and I would think the rotors and case took some too.
I don't know about you, but I see lots of melted/eroded piston all over the inboard side of that piston crown. The area where the upper land "blows out" can sometimes indicate a cause. When you see a piston land blown out on the edge near the intake valve, it is a classic sign of detonation. Similarly a hole in the middle of a piston is likely preignition. Too small a ring gap cause a break out anywhere along the circumference. That piston was likely toast before that blower was installed as they talked about. Someone was overly optimistic on the nitrous use and remodeled a piston on the fly.
Detonation is certainly a possibility though it's hard to tell from the video, even though they do a decent close up. The big gouges are obviously from the chunk of piston that broke out, but what looks like detonation pitting around the edges could be carbon deposits. Shame they didn't show a close up of the bore to see if the typical vertical marking caused by ring butting was present.
You guys had already gapped for nitrous previously... what was the *very* last thing you did with it before this setup? Could you have had a little preignition that crushed the ring groove and trapped the top ring, but didn't run long enough after to have any effect until the blower started to give it some heat and push back on the weakened piston crown?
When you take the piston out, look for anything trapped in the ring groove like little bits of gasket silicone...
10:41 TrickFlow = Affordable price ? 🤣They lost it.🤪👌🏻🤣
Love love love the green.... Ob did i say i love the color of the engine
Where did you get the cam timing wheel? I like the finger grooves in it and the size.
The head machining is wild, 5-axis CNC to reach all way into port😳
I can't wait for the next video!
Needed more ring gap guys.... Ring gap closed from the heat, buckled and popped that top of the piston... Heh, just noticed I was preaching to the choir...
Cheers!
knowing Jeremy, would you really want him to help? he'd use a cutting torch to try to take off the gasket material! and carcass is a good name for his show, that's how all his builds end up.
You tore the top piston ring land off because you added a blower without opening the piston ring clearance on that top ring. When compression is increased, ring to cylinder drag increases. It pulled the top ring land off on the down stroke.
* Starts craping on 6.2’s * Me: * Starts crying *
Looks like someone forgot to adjust the ring end gaps for boost maybe? Looks like ring gap failure. Always adjust the ring end gaps for boost. This will happen every time. Looks like nitrous maybe have started it and the blower finished it all. If you guys go on one of the engine masters episodes, they actually take a stock 305 chevy with the exception of different heads and I think the cam was different but overall it was stock otherwise. They pushed it to see how much nitrous it would take and boom.
They need to do a triton build
I had a simular problem with a 1957 Dodge pick up with a 230 cubic inch engine, flathead engine , the piston shattered on the number 3 cylinder
A new set of pistons, rings, and rod bearings and it was good to go again
0:10 boat anchor
I think the blower belts are slipping or vibrating just enough to throw a wrench in the over all proper timing of this engine and caused the engine to have a failure.
Nothing to do with it. That's a cogged belt, they don't slip. Even if it did, a slipping blower belt has nothing to do with timing and, if anything, reduces the stress on the engine. This was a pinched ring.
How can it be 6-71 if it doesn't have three twisted rotors? If it has two straight rotors it is a 6-53.
Weiand made the lobes. No longer Detroit Diesel innards.
Should be a TSV
@@DieselDanZ51 Doesn't matter who made the rotors, they are still not the x-71 design, they are x-53 series design. The three lobe twist is the significant main difference between the two series. That would be like taking a 350's - 3.48 crank out, and putting in a Scat 302 - 3.00" crank and still calling it a 350. Then saying because it is a Scat crank it is still a 350.
@@bowez9 agree, putting in straight two lobet rotors is a backward step. They should have increased the twist like the TVS to improve efficiency not decreased it, that why they put the twist in to start with. We have the technology today they once didn't to make the twisted rotors, so there is no reason to resort to the primitive less efficient design. Hell you could even go one better and use Lysholm screw internals and make it a true positive displacement blower.
Because it’s for a 6 cylinder Detroit diesel with 71 cubic inches per cylinder. GMC 6-71 lol easy
"First, some vulgar language, second some tool throwing..." LOL!