One crucial thing that the review don't emphasize is that this is a HEAVY NEGOTIATION game. The mechanisms DEMAND that you BRIBE and BLACKMAIL the other players. Don't play this way It will be like playing Cyclades without build temples or playing Avalon without trying to guess who is lying. And BECAUSE of that the theme fits more than perfect. Even if it gets a x-men theme pasted on it will NEVER be a family game. I can't picture two children's saying things like "give me points or I will beat one of your guys" or "I will give you points to destroy that other guy over here". It has an "outlaw" vibe better than ANY other game out there and a EXCELLENT approach to a negotiation game mixed with economic and area control that I don't recall seeing anywhere else, except maybe in ones that demand humongous time investments. If you like negotiation and economical games and have solid friends that will allow you not to shy on make little threats here and there, you will love this one.
Great review Sam. i hear your point about the darkness of the game, and how you don't love that. As a fan of the show I love it and since it's all in fantasy (it's not real it's just a game) but of course everyone has a taste for what they like for IP's. I thought you did a great job of separating your view of the mechanics versus the theme.
Seems like the theme tarnished the game for you. Too bad, because this is an excellent game. Strong 9 for me, and one of the most thematic games out there.
+soren123 I thought the same thing. I saw the video thumbnail and thought: "Wow... Sam? Well.. let's see him not liking the theme and not recomending the game because of it."
I just bought this will all expansion packs this week. I love this game! This will be my new gateway game to replace Catan for my go to for new gamers. I think I have played Catan enough to last a lifetime at this point.
Such a shame GF9 decided not to publish the Luck of the Irish expansion; it promised to add so much to the game. The first add-ons they made are so minor -- calaveras and grim bastards each give you a new club card and all the minis but neither adds anything to the core game experience. What it really needs are more locations, more opportunity/hassle cards, etc. I found it was a really fun and confrontational area control game but it won't take many plays to start seeing all the same locations and cards over and over. I wouldn't be surprised to see this re-implemented in a few years with a different theme because the core game system itself is really strong.
+John Evans so sorry to hear that. If only they would have chosen to release the Luck of the Irish expansion sooner than the other gang expansions... Maybe that would have helped the game better...
You give some solid opinions, a good job stepping back considering it's a theme that you don't enjoy, but I don't know if you quite acknowledged what was good about the theme. It's kind of funny, the dark theme bothers me less, but I didn't even realize many of the details that you picked up on like the fact that you're burning bodies. I'm actually kind of happy knowing that those thematic elements are there, but it is easy to overlook them if they bother you, I think. Personally I like escapism. I may sit at a computer trying to get along with coworkers all day long, it's nice to pretend that I'm in a brutish biker gang with no sympathy for 90 minutes. And I do think the game captures that well, how naturally the feeling of controling a biker gang evolves through the game mechanisms. The way you're fighting over turf. You need to sell some guns, you see a rival gang that has monopolized that location, you make a phone call and send your boys in, either they get scared off, or they make a call themselves and a throwdown happens for control, maybe you lose a member in the hospital and now you have to train a new recruit. The negotiation that happens out of that also, is really great. Maybe you don't have the manpower yourself, but you can talk someone else into doing the deed for you, maybe even offer them some contraband to kick them off so you're free to exploit a different area. It's very free form and I love that. I also really like how you have to setup your turns, what you do with your last move, where you position your gangmembers, is possibly even more important than what you do for your very first turn. Perfectly entitled to your own opinion, 5 out 10 feels really low to me and I know that's heavily influenced by the distasteful theme for you, just kind of unfortunate because I think it does really neat things to a rather stale worker-placement genre. Anyway, good on you for actually seeking out the game after haring feedback on it, I think that's great interaction with the audience. I'm also happy the game is getting more exposure since it completely fell off the radar and I feel like it offers a fun and fairly unique experience. It's a shame they dropped their future expansions because the game wasn't a big success.
Well, it all depends on what 5/10 means to the reviewer. To me review scores are heavily inflated - 5/10 should imply a perfectly average game (as opposed to the new norm of 7/10 that most reviewers use today), which seems consistent with Sam's review. :)
Gotcha. Then, yes I think 5/10 is accurate. In fact, I praise you for having more traditionally normalized scores (I feel most people make a 7/10 an average score, which then skews all reviews much higher and makes the ratings less significant). Great review, Sam. Thanks for all your hard work at the DT - love that you're on staff now! :)
+Caden Laptad I can see that. 5/10 makes sense being average, but it feels below average to me for some reason. I think I consider both 5 and 6 as average, but 5 is the lower end, an average game that I'd rather not play, where as 6 is an average game that I would like to play on occasion.
+Sam Healey I think I rate it in the 8 range. I'm not a fan of the show really at all, I watched most of the first season but there aren't any likable characters. I do enjoy the theme though, I think a biker gang is a fun idea, even if they're graphically violent. Mostly I enjoy any game that includes direct confrontation and negotiation, I like when I can be a bully in a game.
I am a fan of the game Deadwood, and have seen many comments that these 2 games are similar. Like Sam, I am not keen on the theme, but since I like Deadwood, and respect Sam's opinion, I was hoping for some comparison or comments about Deadwood. But the video detailing the game play gave me that, even though nothing was said.
great review sam.....as a fan of the show I also thought that the game was just a little above average....its a shame that there isn't any expansions planned for the game
I love this game. Yes, the theme is dark. True to the show, in that way. It is not a kid's game. That stated, MOST of the darkness is implied, and if you can just remember that this is all fictional/fantasy, there is a great game to be enjoyed here. You're probably not the target audience, Sam (you probably do NOT want to watch the show). I see how the darkness of the theme spoiled the fun for you. That's a pity, because I think if you played this game with a different theme laid over it, you'd absolutely love it. The mechanisms and player interaction of the game make it one of my all time favorites. Anyway, I appreciate you Dice Tower guys. Thanks for the review.
Very fun game. Love that you're getting into the groove, Sam. Almost no unnecessary jump-cuts anymore. Just be yourself, 'cause that's why we're listening.
Sam, I can definitely see that the theming of the game would not be to your taste - the TV show is rather "direct" and "fruity", shall we say, in it's portrayal of the gang's lives. _Definitely_ don't watch the TV show, haha. Thanks for the good review, especially given that it's not to your taste - this is a game that I had passed over, but I think I will keep an eye out for a copy as it's also quite cheap in the UK, now.
I pretty much agree with you on the overall score Sam. The theme didn't bother me that much, I just had zero interest in it. A friend brought it to a recent meetup and we tried it, funny thing is none of the 4 of us that played watch the show. Not a bad game but wasn't really all that exciting either.
One crucial thing that the review don't emphasize is that this is a HEAVY NEGOTIATION game. The mechanisms DEMAND that you BRIBE and BLACKMAIL the other players. Don't play this way It will be like playing Cyclades without build temples or playing Avalon without trying to guess who is lying.
And BECAUSE of that the theme fits more than perfect. Even if it gets a x-men theme pasted on it will NEVER be a family game. I can't picture two children's saying things like "give me points or I will beat one of your guys" or "I will give you points to destroy that other guy over here".
It has an "outlaw" vibe better than ANY other game out there and a EXCELLENT approach to a negotiation game mixed with economic and area control that I don't recall seeing anywhere else, except maybe in ones that demand humongous time investments.
If you like negotiation and economical games and have solid friends that will allow you not to shy on make little threats here and there, you will love this one.
The only criticisms are the fact that it's pretty much R rated?
Sons of anarchy board game, come on iiiiiin.
People ask for thematic elements, then get upset when there's too much theme.
Great review Sam. i hear your point about the darkness of the game, and how you don't love that. As a fan of the show I love it and since it's all in fantasy (it's not real it's just a game) but of course everyone has a taste for what they like for IP's. I thought you did a great job of separating your view of the mechanics versus the theme.
+Matt Poyser Thanks!!
Seems like the theme tarnished the game for you. Too bad, because this is an excellent game. Strong 9 for me, and one of the most thematic games out there.
I can't imagine anyone recommending this game to Sam, it was obvious before watching this review that Sam wouldn't like the theme...
+soren123 I thought the same thing. I saw the video thumbnail and thought: "Wow... Sam? Well.. let's see him not liking the theme and not recomending the game because of it."
+soren123 It wasn't a personal recommendation, mind you. They just followed the organized crime link following my Top 5 Mafia Games video.
this game is great!
I just bought this will all expansion packs this week. I love this game! This will be my new gateway game to replace Catan for my go to for new gamers. I think I have played Catan enough to last a lifetime at this point.
"Sons Of Anarchy: Men Of Mayhem" and "Ghost Stories" are my top 2 board games ever!! Thank you Sam, for this review!
Such a shame GF9 decided not to publish the Luck of the Irish expansion; it promised to add so much to the game. The first add-ons they made are so minor -- calaveras and grim bastards each give you a new club card and all the minis but neither adds anything to the core game experience. What it really needs are more locations, more opportunity/hassle cards, etc. I found it was a really fun and confrontational area control game but it won't take many plays to start seeing all the same locations and cards over and over.
I wouldn't be surprised to see this re-implemented in a few years with a different theme because the core game system itself is really strong.
+John Evans Are you sure it´s not ever comming out? I though it was delayed in development
+Juan Pablo Zabala :: GF9 pretty much confirmed it on twitter mobile.twitter.com/GaleForceNine/status/719884572981346304
+John Evans so sorry to hear that. If only they would have chosen to release the Luck of the Irish expansion sooner than the other gang expansions... Maybe that would have helped the game better...
This game with 4 players is a bloody good time. I love this game.
You give some solid opinions, a good job stepping back considering it's a theme that you don't enjoy, but I don't know if you quite acknowledged what was good about the theme. It's kind of funny, the dark theme bothers me less, but I didn't even realize many of the details that you picked up on like the fact that you're burning bodies. I'm actually kind of happy knowing that those thematic elements are there, but it is easy to overlook them if they bother you, I think. Personally I like escapism. I may sit at a computer trying to get along with coworkers all day long, it's nice to pretend that I'm in a brutish biker gang with no sympathy for 90 minutes.
And I do think the game captures that well, how naturally the feeling of controling a biker gang evolves through the game mechanisms. The way you're fighting over turf. You need to sell some guns, you see a rival gang that has monopolized that location, you make a phone call and send your boys in, either they get scared off, or they make a call themselves and a throwdown happens for control, maybe you lose a member in the hospital and now you have to train a new recruit. The negotiation that happens out of that also, is really great. Maybe you don't have the manpower yourself, but you can talk someone else into doing the deed for you, maybe even offer them some contraband to kick them off so you're free to exploit a different area. It's very free form and I love that.
I also really like how you have to setup your turns, what you do with your last move, where you position your gangmembers, is possibly even more important than what you do for your very first turn.
Perfectly entitled to your own opinion, 5 out 10 feels really low to me and I know that's heavily influenced by the distasteful theme for you, just kind of unfortunate because I think it does really neat things to a rather stale worker-placement genre.
Anyway, good on you for actually seeking out the game after haring feedback on it, I think that's great interaction with the audience. I'm also happy the game is getting more exposure since it completely fell off the radar and I feel like it offers a fun and fairly unique experience. It's a shame they dropped their future expansions because the game wasn't a big success.
Well, it all depends on what 5/10 means to the reviewer. To me review scores are heavily inflated - 5/10 should imply a perfectly average game (as opposed to the new norm of 7/10 that most reviewers use today), which seems consistent with Sam's review. :)
+Caden Laptad For me it was simply average, but I could see how people would find it to be a 7 or even higher, especially fans of the show.
Gotcha. Then, yes I think 5/10 is accurate. In fact, I praise you for having more traditionally normalized scores (I feel most people make a 7/10 an average score, which then skews all reviews much higher and makes the ratings less significant). Great review, Sam. Thanks for all your hard work at the DT - love that you're on staff now! :)
+Caden Laptad I can see that. 5/10 makes sense being average, but it feels below average to me for some reason. I think I consider both 5 and 6 as average, but 5 is the lower end, an average game that I'd rather not play, where as 6 is an average game that I would like to play on occasion.
+Sam Healey I think I rate it in the 8 range. I'm not a fan of the show really at all, I watched most of the first season but there aren't any likable characters.
I do enjoy the theme though, I think a biker gang is a fun idea, even if they're graphically violent. Mostly I enjoy any game that includes direct confrontation and negotiation, I like when I can be a bully in a game.
Great review, Sam! :D
Bought the game a few days ago and hoping to play it soon with a few friends that are fans of the TV show. Thanks!
Great review, Sam! Your thoughts are valued as always!
Some reviews on BGG say it plays like "Twilight Imperium Lite." Can't wait to try it out.
I am a fan of the game Deadwood, and have seen many comments that these 2 games are similar. Like Sam, I am not keen on the theme, but since I like Deadwood, and respect Sam's opinion, I was hoping for some comparison or comments about Deadwood. But the video detailing the game play gave me that, even though nothing was said.
+Doma Agape boardgamegeek.com/thread/1382645/vs-deadwood
Those constant little cuts were quite annoying. It's difficult o follow rules explanation when you cut middle of a sentence.
+C r s Sorry...just trying to streamline. I thought I made them smooth enough. I'll endeavor to improve.
+Sam Healey Maybe try a sharp cut over a fade
***** To me, it seems like those would be worse.
+Sam Healey If I have to have a cut, I would rather a slow fade than a quick cut.
@@SamHealey6 I appreciate the fades, they make the commentary snappy without pauses and hesitation
great review sam.....as a fan of the show I also thought that the game was just a little above average....its a shame that there isn't any expansions planned for the game
I love this game. Yes, the theme is dark. True to the show, in that way. It is not a kid's game. That stated, MOST of the darkness is implied, and if you can just remember that this is all fictional/fantasy, there is a great game to be enjoyed here. You're probably not the target audience, Sam (you probably do NOT want to watch the show). I see how the darkness of the theme spoiled the fun for you. That's a pity, because I think if you played this game with a different theme laid over it, you'd absolutely love it. The mechanisms and player interaction of the game make it one of my all time favorites.
Anyway, I appreciate you Dice Tower guys. Thanks for the review.
Very fun game. Love that you're getting into the groove, Sam. Almost no unnecessary jump-cuts anymore. Just be yourself, 'cause that's why we're listening.
A carcass is an animal body.
Sam, I can definitely see that the theming of the game would not be to your taste - the TV show is rather "direct" and "fruity", shall we say, in it's portrayal of the gang's lives. _Definitely_ don't watch the TV show, haha.
Thanks for the good review, especially given that it's not to your taste - this is a game that I had passed over, but I think I will keep an eye out for a copy as it's also quite cheap in the UK, now.
I pretty much agree with you on the overall score Sam. The theme didn't bother me that much, I just had zero interest in it. A friend brought it to a recent meetup and we tried it, funny thing is none of the 4 of us that played watch the show. Not a bad game but wasn't really all that exciting either.
It feels like Illuminati?!?!?
I fell asleep😪
Sounds like I would like it :)
The show was great though.