Hope you guys enjoyed this one. Lots more requests for tests coming in, will try make it all happen this month for you guys, though I am definitely itching to hit the used market a bit too NGL.
You should benchmark the 9950x vs 14900ks in both gaming and productivity (not just cinebench, do some Blender benchmarks) with the optimal windows config
I am confused. In the previous video Core isolation was turned off and had more FPS. Now all the graphs with On are higher then off? What does it mean on? Is that core isolation off when you say on?
@@karlos1060 Previous video was about testing the performance impact of Core Isolation (on vs off). This one shows the test results for the KB5041587 update/patch for Windows 23H2 (update installed-ON vs not installed-OFF).
It makes sense. AMD = classic dual socket architecture. Albeit io die + chiplets. Intel = monolithic, heterogeneous, asynchronous Microsoft rewrote the scheduler for 12th gen. I'm fairly convinced it's still effectively in beta. There's no evidence that it can handle full big.LITTLE yet. Ie cores with different instructions. Remember Intel knee-jerk disabled AVX512 on 12g most likely because Ms haven't been able to make it work properly. I suspect it's an accident that AMD lost perf - because the classic architecture is accidentally deoptimised. The proof would be to grab a pair of 6 core xeons and see if they also suffer in w11. They more closely match the classic architecture.
@@jeffreypaul9428 Unfortunately, for this test where he's using an NVIDIA GPU, then he might be crippled by that because NVIDIA provides driver support for Linux, but the drivers are behind the ones for Windows. Example: the current Linux NVIDIA driver is 550.107.02, whereas the current Windows driver is 561.09. Now, it can be argued that the Windows drivers just required more updates. However, as a Linux user who uses NVIDIA, I can tell you that the 550.107.02 in Linux **still** lacks DLSS 3 and FrameGen support, because NVIDIA is incredibly slow to add the latest features to the Linux drivers. The difference in GPU drivers could affect FPS in a Linux test.
I'm interested in using Linux, but I've never done it before and there seem to be many different types of Linux and I have no idea which are good and bad. Do you have any recommendations? Please remember that I'll be playing games.
@@selohcin before diving in, what are your PC specs? I ask because it will make a large difference with Linux. The distro I recommend is Nobara Linux, it's the easiest gaming focused distro for a newbie, I have a friend using it now because we didn't want to buy a windows licence knowing he will be swapping motherboards in the immediate future. He knew nothing of Linux but I knew he emulates more than he games, and has an AMD GPU. He's recently informed me he's loving it, and his steam games work. Nobara is a fedora spin off with the gaming focused optimizations steam deck OS implemented, which is a Linux for the non-linux gamer. That said research carefully, much of the logic you've grown accustomed to on windows will not work here. Exes for example aren't Linux native compatible, installation wizards don't exist, and not everything works the same way. That said it's not always harder, drivers are built into the kernel or sought out during installation and things like WinRAR aren't nearly as necessary. Just study fedora based distros and Linux in general well before you make the jump. It's not easy and often the first try leaves people very unsatisfied with Linux because it's so different, but once you begin learning it how you learned windows it gets easier, assuming it's an OS that can meet your needs at all.
@@selohcinI was gaming on the latest Ubuntu release on the weekend (AMD CPU & GPU). Was playing Helldivers 1 with a friend on Steam (local coop) with PS5 controllers. I tried up to 3 controllers, it worked flawlessly (had to enable Steam Input for the games and choose a Proton version under the Compatibility tab). I have to say that I hate Ubuntu for the snap packages, but overall it's a good and approachable experience, I'm using 22.04 on my desktop for work / daily driver and I have 24.04 currently on my notebook that I don't use very often but it was used actually for the gaming part I explained. I believe there's a new stable release for 24 which might increase the overall stability / experience. I still have my dual boot setup with Windows on my pc, which is on a different disk drive. If you install Linux after Windows (dual boot setup) you don't have to worry about much I think, Linux (grub) I believe historically treats the necessary configuration better than Windows (if you were installing Windows as the second OS).
I would argue MS is holding steady and consistent all these years. Pretty frustrating for years and years. Win98 🫤 Win98se 🙂 Win ME 🤨 Win XP 😀 Win Vista 😔 Win 7 😎 Win 8 😒 Win 10 😃 Win 11 😒 Win 12 🤷
@@45eno windows 10 was never good to begin with, it was only good bc they reverted the start menu change from windows 8. apart from that it had worse design without aero, slow, annoying forced windows updates, way more telemetry than any other version and other bad stuff
MS designed Windows 11 for Intel. Notice the rhetoric around, bringing life to new PC sales: They meant INTEL. The whole "Running Android Apps" was supposed to be just an Intel-only feature, but backlash stopped it.
Why? They've been selling PCs on Intel for decades. Are you sure they aren't talking about ARM and the Snapdragon laptops... because that would make sense.
@@GeorgeCardoso-mh2ei True but the problem is that more and more Companies are following the throw away and buy new Scheme so they are slowly forcing you into using Windows 11 if you want to install newer programs.
Finally someone testing win10 vs win11 !!! It was so obviously a win 11 issue when we had linux people praising ryzen 9000, while everyone that tested on windows (sadly win11...) practically said: "cpu below expectations/advertisement, not recommended". Another reason why win11 is trash…
I've told my friend that I helped build his 5800X to stay on 10. I expect he will remain until 11 is the only free option that's a mature Windows without paying monthly. Win11 direct storage and AutoHDR aren't really enough (some Linux distros have HDR on KDE too, my AMD gpu has it on Nobara 40). Most people I think are served by staying until MS makes them pay to subscribe to 10, then maybe they are forced into an upgrade to save money. That or they do a new build. My one remaining 10 LTSC install is going Linux or staying offline when the time comes.
@@ArtisChronicles yeah then you can play 25% of your games with 5% higher FPS, 25% of you games at 20% lower FPS, and 50% at 0fps and that's after you spend a week getting Linux gaming even working at all assuming you have no other hardware that has no Linux drivers and are told "well why would you run that hardware, are you stupid" by the linux community. Linux only survives because of the Linux community, and Linux will never become mainstream because of the linux community. ;-)
Yes please!! I was about to ask for it as well, thank you so much.@@techyescity Even if 5000 series are somewhat old already, so many people still have them. The R5 5600 is basically one of the best bang for the buck CPUs of the past few years with so many current users.
Yup, we would like to know too. Recently upgrade to 5700X3D after watching your video. So, I would like to know too. Still running Windows 10 until Oct 2025.
Even on Linux the uplift is mediocre at best, and often downright disappointing. Even on avx512 friendly real workloads the uplift is much smaller than what e.g. zen4 brought. As a whole, we have not seen uplifts this small since before zen 1! If anybody is truly happy with this, I don't understand why.
@@hyperixz I've honestly had way less issues with Linux than Windows. No weird driver problems, no updates breaking things, no reboots while I'm trying to work, better security without sacrifices in performance, and more. I use both for work related reasons, but Linux is by far less of a headache.
@@rustyclark2356 the tech needs to become stable for widespread adoption and even then it still takes a very long time to adopt. games coming out now were started and planned with tech from 2-8 years ago.
Microsoft & Intel: Handshake... lets make intel win AMD: ok fine, we will wait until the time we have issue to win over intel, then we will make fuss about this so that people know it's window's fault and everyone get free performance and we win again
I don't think so... On my old 8700K wind 11 modded without security features enabled clean install on a fast M2 SSD run slow, even the UI was constantly being fast and slow randomly without doing anything and just all drivers installed, also a lot of games lost a few FPS... 1 day with wind 11 for me was enough to do a full clean wind 10 install back again and everything is smooth again... Edit: forgot to say I fckin hate the new UI and menus from Win11 🤬
There's a lot of actual benchmark deniers on the Intels side, Intel already lost gaming crown, and this doesn't help them feel better. Intel subreddit has been shadowbanning many people exposing this issues as well.
Your results are in line with what I am seeing on my 7700X. Win 10 = Win 11 24H2 performance (core isolation off). What is crazy to me is that Ryzen 4 works well on both versions of Windows, while Ryzen 5 works well only on Windows 10. That is veeerrryyy strange...
Yeah I went ahead and installed 24H2 on my 7950X3D and I see up to about 30% increase in performance in some games. Tarkov for example got a massive upgrade going to the update
zen 5 have a different architetture from zen 4 so probabily microsoft will need multiple patch and i think windows 11 scheduler it's made for intel/arm in mind
@@notjustforhackers4252 I use both terminal and gui in linux. Installing wine, doing updates, fixing dependencies, installing dpkg and flatpaks through terminal is easier. But majority of people got used to windows that they may consider linux if it becomes more GUI based like windows. It can be possible if companies like "Canonical" makes it happen.
one of the reason i went back to win7... and when win7 was used - vista & obv from vista to XP cuz vista was trash anyway. but srsly every new windows slowed down performance. from Win7 to 8 there was a degradation in performance, same goes for XP vs vista / win7. XP had way better performance than win7. just u got forced to use win7 due to secruity & directX support
noone is forced to use windows 11 in the same way So the argument is a bit shit for win11? Also your claim is false vista was objectively slower and worse than win7 that came after it
Intel worked with Microsoft to ensure they nerf AMD hardware. Was in a US court case a few years ago. They were basically told "stop doing that" but no fine or legal basis to stop doing it, so they never stopped doing it.
great video, thanks. a lot of those "famous youtubers" are just racing for clicks. Accuracy is out, drama and "angry faces and click-baity titles" are in. Am dual-booting to Mint Linux on my second rig now, learning the ropes. Support for games are still janky, needing to familiarize with Proton, Wine, Heroic launcher etc..but overall it's easier than expected. Gaming in Steam with Linux are excellent. Hope Linux continue to increase in popularity and finally put some pressure on MS and their crap products and unfair practices.
Thank you for this excellent video! This is pure madness. Honestly, as an average Joe, I thought about switching to Intel because I felt my AMD rig had problems. Now it is just MS screwing around... :/
Windows 11 its a dissaster, UI downgrades, BLOAT, higher hardware requirements, and what we knew AMD having issues that took 4 years to fix. unacceptable
Brian, from personal experience switching from Windows 7 to windows 10 I seen a simular drop in FPS being tanked especially in the early days, but yes you are right Microsoft shouldn't be enforcing online activity to access your pc, like had an issue with using a simcard modem as refuse to pay extorsion for a fixed phoneline and isp prices, but yet having bs internet connection and drop outs for hours on end at times, windows 11 came back with cannot connect to the internet connect your ethernet cable to finish installing windows. had to work around it by connecting my phone to my pc luckily having internet on my phone as well. Windows 11 is bs anyway.
Ive a Ryzen 3900x and from win 10 to 11 23h2 third update ive lost 34% performance... like what the hell... i went back to win 10 again, this is unbelieveable!
This is why I avoided Windows 11 entirely. I know it's easy to say this now, but I suspected that Microsoft was planning some foul play with Windows 11 right from the start.
@@darukutsu Screw dual-booting, MS always ends up killing bootloader. Just get a cheap SSD and set BIOS to default to your daily-driver and use Esc/F2 Setup whatever to interrupt boot and select the other OS drive to boot from.
@@darukutsu yep but sharing ntfs drive is a baaaaaad idea. but yeah, a linux on an external nvme without using your ntfs drive for gaming or working is ok. Just stay focus on where you install your boot partition.
Love how you called out the rush reviews that are farming drama around the 12 minute mark, when performance numbers clearly made no sense for AMD to release and yet they did not make the effort to dig deeper. I am sure everyone can infer from looking at a certain 'gamer' channel that recently just crossed the 1 million subscriber mark that farmed like 10 videos of click/ragebait on Zen 5.
Intel asked Microsoft: Can you make our gen 13 and 14 processor faster than Ryzen? We are loosing hard. Microsoft answer- How? Why you do not make them yourself? Intel - We cannot, but you can, by sabotaging AMD and making Ryzen processors run slower in Windows 11. Microsoft - Done!
Something to note if youre testing this yourself. The FPS loss from core isolation is really only in CPU bottlenecked situations such as in 1080p. I tested in 1440p and 4k with ray tracing/path tracing and the negative effect is neglectable. HOWEVER, in older and less optimized games like Guild Wars 2, where even on high resolutions, the CPU is the bottle neck, there is a huge effect, up to 10% less FPS. I think this applies to a lot of MMORPGs where there are lots of players and the CPU is pushed hard. So it really depends on your use case if you want to disable core isolation, either way, the fact this happens and you are not warned is insane.
I may be misremembering things, but I remember, there was a time with Windows 10 where they activated cored isolation by default, and the performance hit was pretty massive, after which they turned it off by default. When it was back on Windows 11 I assumed they patched it to not impact as much, but I guess that was wishful thinking smh. Great vid. Btw, I sent you an invite to the deadlock beta on steam, I'd love to see a cheap used build themed around the game, like the good old days, cheers.
Man I've followed your channel for quite a while and I'm glad you covered this properly. I agree with everything you said at the end too. I'll be staying on W10 for as long as possible.
I sense "Linux gaming might option" here. But Win11 fit the pattern: ....Win 98SE good, Win Me bad, Win XP good, Win Vista bad, Win 7 good, Win 8 bad, Win 10 good, Win 11 (╯‵□′)╯︵┻━┻
Steam on Linux is pretty good, enough where I've not went back to dual boot for at least a few months. It's progressing. Anticheat FPS games are the main caveat where some people might need a VM/dualboot depending. I look up new releases on Proton DB lately & usually new titles are playable on launch.
This is why i love linux, i have yet to have any form of regression in performance on both my desktop, and laptop. Both are AMD systems. If anything performance keeps getting better with every update. And i love it.
It's weird, on a lower end system, R5 5600 and 6700xt I'm getting better performance in most games on the newest 11 patch than 10 now. Would be interested to see a setup like mine tested more thoroughly.
I have the same combo and not giving up on it; serves me well (Zen 3 truly is AMD's Sandy Bridge) ... Tried many Linux distros over the years, but had to stick to Windows because of ArcheAge. Now AA is dead (in EU and US). Hopefully Cosmic moves past alpha ASAP. Not playing anything online anytime soon, if ever again.
I'm dual booting Linux and Windows. Windows 10, that is. I tried 11, and tried to force myself to use it for a couple weeks, and I didn't even make this long. I also find myself using Linux more and more with each passing day. I've just gravitated to it more. I think my days of Windows are quite numbered, thankfully. Microsoft is one of the grossest companies in existence, never mind the the tech space. The further away from them I can put myself, the better.
Yep - and again... Less and less reason to even change to Win 11. I'll remain on Win 10 since it seems to be the safer, more stable and much more secure option. Now i wait for Win 12 - and then wait another year - and after people found out how much is broken on that one i'll decide again on if a upgrade is worth the headache.
Learning how to move over to Linux now. Been playing on and off with Linux for a while now. But now I'm using it everyday on a secondary system trying to get everything to work. Learning a lot. Will be off proprietary software soon.
Already had it off xD turned off as much as possible, as an i.t. guy im not at all worried about security on my gaming computer. i spend several hours turning off as much of windows as possible, and i always get a huge boost . a few dozen settings that get you 3/4 of a fps add up when they're all together
I started with dual boot getting back to Linux gaming W11 definetly pushed me back. Nobara KDE, but on Arch based 2-3 years ago I used to use Manjaro and then ArcoLinux. Steam and Linux gaming has come a long way compared to back then. Debloating 10 and 11 on machines took a lot of time to keep up each update.
People keep forgetting through the passage of time that every 2nd OS Microsoft releases is better that the previous starting from 95 (although the way things are going I think 12 is going to break this chain): 95- Very good 95 v2- Better via adding USB support 98- Very good 98SE- Better via adding USB 2.0 support ME- Trash, System Restore & Y2K bug fear was bait XP- Best of all time Vista- Trash, DirectX 10 was bait 7- One of the best 8- Trash 10- Decent 11- Trash
Sadly, I've noticed the same thing using Windows 11 for the last couple of months. I only decided to test Windows 11 since we only have about a year left of Windows 10 support if we don't want to pay extra. Window 11 in my experience is slower for all-around daily tasks as well as gaming. I don't have CPU or RAM-heavy workloads so I can't speak to that but for all of my needs Windows 11 is slower and more buggy in every way. I tested on 3 different PC both supported and non-supported hardware Intel and AMD and it's sluggish on all 3. I honestly don't know what to do as I depend on Windows for certain things.
Slower, more bloatware, more useful features removed, more telemetry, more stupid forced shit enabled.. and that is why win10 is my final MS os, switching to linux, currently on Fedora 40
r5 3600 + 5600xt & W11+patch. Warzone 3 went from 90-100fps to about 100-120 fps , Battlefield 2042 has alot less stutters, and desktop feels much more responsive.
The only thing left to know is if Intel paid Microsoft to hammer AMD cpu's..... Funny thing is that Xbox uses AMD architecture.... So I think they did it on purpose
Yep, I'm staying on Win 10 until the games I want to run, or the hardware I want to use, forces me to Win 11... just like was the case for me for Win 7.
I feel bad for all the "non-tech-savvy" gamers out there fed up with Win11 and what MS is shoving down their throats with each update of 11. They understandably come flocking to the Linux camp, but doing so with the Windows mindset and this most always leaves them disenchanted turning back to MS. ONLY because Microsoft cannot get, or does not want to get, it's act together and extend it's Win10 support or significantly alters it's W11 dev direction. PS for those of us who are tech savvy, gaming on Linux can offer a lot. But like I said it's not for all, not yet.
What you said about AMD possibly not working with Microsoft enough to optimize for Zen 4 and 5 is exactly what happened in Windows 11. AMD handled it with a wait and see approach with Windows 11 because they were not sure how many people would jump to the OS. IT organizations are not switching to Windows 11 for the very reasons you stated, it's still a little buggy. My entire company is still on Win 10 22H2. We have been testing Win 11 23H2 for months and we are still skeptical of it.
"Foreseeable future" Reminder that Windows 10 End Of Life (EOL) date is almost a year from now on October 14, 2025! Unless you ignore the security issues of using an EOL operating system, you will not be using Windows 10 that much longer. If 11 sucks that much, its time for you to explore other operating systems like Linux or whatever Mac OS is called now.
I know people running W7 who are fine. Like most people, they are on broadband, which gives them NAT protection. They use the free version of a well known A/V likely AVAST or similar. The also use the free version of SandBoxie to sandbox and isolate their Chrome/Firefox web browser from W7. In reality, its the SandBoxie and the Ublock Origin browser extension that stops 99%. And like always, MS will have extensions to W10 EOL at the very end, as there are still large customers with fleets who can't afford to upgrade en masse and support will extend for another year or 2. Some of the LTSC versions are going to be supported until like 2028/29. MS would love everyone to believe there is a hard date.
Hardware Unboxed did a video about Windows 10 vs 11 on a lot of games. Their findings were that you can have ''bad'' and ''good'' Windows installs on both 10 and 11. The bad install has worse FPS and the good has better. So there seems to be a Windows install lottery.
It's more objective than that - it is literally a Windows setting in Windows 11 that is enabled by default in 11 that harms FPS, but on 10 it is disabled by default giving better fps by default on Windows 10
I have reinstalled windows 10 a few times now, it's very consistent. Windows 11 I really don't want to bother with it after this testing, and also a few more tests I have to run with it.
HU Steve talked about the win10 vs win11 performance difference and he found that it also mattered how you installed win11 (upgrade or fresh install). Which is just absurd
R5 3600 here, still not sure if I should just install 10 again or give 11 another try :D I really don't wanna lose fps or get stutters because my mid tier setup is only getting older D:
Yeah, I've been saying this for the past year and a half. During that time, I've been through 3 different pc's trying to sort out issues that were probably all related to windows 11. I never even tried windows 10 because I was under the impression that windows 11 was superior, and my copy of windows 10 was upgraded to windows 11, so my product key doesn't work for 10 anymore. Windows 11 has horrible bugs with NVidia gpus. There's an issue where the GeForce overlay causes the taskbar to flicker when the desktop is refreshed. The ONLY way to fix that bug is to literally turn off the GeForce overlay. That's it. NOTHING else will fix it. But Nvidia tried to gaslight me into thinking there was no issue. But years later, my old pc still has that problem even after all the updates. I'm on a full AMD pc now and the bugs just keep showing up. I barley even touch my pc anymore and just play on my Xbox. When I gain the energy back, I might downgrade to windows 10, but at this point I'm so fed up with PCs I just don't care enough anymore. I hope these companies burn for this so I can piss on their ashes.
Hope you guys enjoyed this one. Lots more requests for tests coming in, will try make it all happen this month for you guys, though I am definitely itching to hit the used market a bit too NGL.
You should benchmark the 9950x vs 14900ks in both gaming and productivity (not just cinebench, do some Blender benchmarks) with the optimal windows config
Include Linux next time - Nobara should be a good comaprison.
I am confused. In the previous video Core isolation was turned off and had more FPS. Now all the graphs with On are higher then off? What does it mean on? Is that core isolation off when you say on?
@@karlos1060 Previous video was about testing the performance impact of Core Isolation (on vs off). This one shows the test results for the KB5041587 update/patch for Windows 23H2 (update installed-ON vs not installed-OFF).
It makes sense.
AMD = classic dual socket architecture. Albeit io die + chiplets.
Intel = monolithic, heterogeneous, asynchronous
Microsoft rewrote the scheduler for 12th gen.
I'm fairly convinced it's still effectively in beta. There's no evidence that it can handle full big.LITTLE yet. Ie cores with different instructions.
Remember Intel knee-jerk disabled AVX512 on 12g most likely because Ms haven't been able to make it work properly.
I suspect it's an accident that AMD lost perf - because the classic architecture is accidentally deoptimised.
The proof would be to grab a pair of 6 core xeons and see if they also suffer in w11.
They more closely match the classic architecture.
Microsoft never misses an opportunity to remind us 11 is trash. I want to thank them for their contributions to the growth of the linux community.
Every reviewer should include a Linux test going forward I think.
@@jeffreypaul9428 Unfortunately, for this test where he's using an NVIDIA GPU, then he might be crippled by that because NVIDIA provides driver support for Linux, but the drivers are behind the ones for Windows.
Example: the current Linux NVIDIA driver is 550.107.02, whereas the current Windows driver is 561.09. Now, it can be argued that the Windows drivers just required more updates. However, as a Linux user who uses NVIDIA, I can tell you that the 550.107.02 in Linux **still** lacks DLSS 3 and FrameGen support, because NVIDIA is incredibly slow to add the latest features to the Linux drivers. The difference in GPU drivers could affect FPS in a Linux test.
I'm interested in using Linux, but I've never done it before and there seem to be many different types of Linux and I have no idea which are good and bad. Do you have any recommendations? Please remember that I'll be playing games.
@@selohcin before diving in, what are your PC specs? I ask because it will make a large difference with Linux. The distro I recommend is Nobara Linux, it's the easiest gaming focused distro for a newbie, I have a friend using it now because we didn't want to buy a windows licence knowing he will be swapping motherboards in the immediate future. He knew nothing of Linux but I knew he emulates more than he games, and has an AMD GPU. He's recently informed me he's loving it, and his steam games work. Nobara is a fedora spin off with the gaming focused optimizations steam deck OS implemented, which is a Linux for the non-linux gamer. That said research carefully, much of the logic you've grown accustomed to on windows will not work here. Exes for example aren't Linux native compatible, installation wizards don't exist, and not everything works the same way. That said it's not always harder, drivers are built into the kernel or sought out during installation and things like WinRAR aren't nearly as necessary. Just study fedora based distros and Linux in general well before you make the jump. It's not easy and often the first try leaves people very unsatisfied with Linux because it's so different, but once you begin learning it how you learned windows it gets easier, assuming it's an OS that can meet your needs at all.
@@selohcinI was gaming on the latest Ubuntu release on the weekend (AMD CPU & GPU). Was playing Helldivers 1 with a friend on Steam (local coop) with PS5 controllers. I tried up to 3 controllers, it worked flawlessly (had to enable Steam Input for the games and choose a Proton version under the Compatibility tab).
I have to say that I hate Ubuntu for the snap packages, but overall it's a good and approachable experience, I'm using 22.04 on my desktop for work / daily driver and I have 24.04 currently on my notebook that I don't use very often but it was used actually for the gaming part I explained. I believe there's a new stable release for 24 which might increase the overall stability / experience.
I still have my dual boot setup with Windows on my pc, which is on a different disk drive. If you install Linux after Windows (dual boot setup) you don't have to worry about much I think, Linux (grub) I believe historically treats the necessary configuration better than Windows (if you were installing Windows as the second OS).
Feels like MS is going backwards
My experience with 11 vs 10 would definitely agree with that.
I would argue MS is holding steady and consistent all these years. Pretty frustrating for years and years.
Win98 🫤
Win98se 🙂
Win ME 🤨
Win XP 😀
Win Vista 😔
Win 7 😎
Win 8 😒
Win 10 😃
Win 11 😒
Win 12 🤷
All the new people hired in are diversity hires with little or no experience, doesn't suppose me. Almost as shut as spell check.
I'm moving to Linux. I've used two distros, plan on Nobara this time. Still like Kubuntu and Mint, but I'm hearing great things about Nobara gaming.
@@45eno windows 10 was never good to begin with, it was only good bc they reverted the start menu change from windows 8. apart from that it had worse design without aero, slow, annoying forced windows updates, way more telemetry than any other version and other bad stuff
MS designed Windows 11 for Intel. Notice the rhetoric around, bringing life to new PC sales: They meant INTEL. The whole "Running Android Apps" was supposed to be just an Intel-only feature, but backlash stopped it.
Windows 10 IoT LTSC best gaming OS, no debate. Official support until 2032 too, lowest DPC and mouse latency. Nothing else matters.
I mean we got buzzword like e core p core. whatever tf that means. Its so stupid lmao.
Why? They've been selling PCs on Intel for decades. Are you sure they aren't talking about ARM and the Snapdragon laptops... because that would make sense.
@@GeorgeCardoso-mh2ei True but the problem is that more and more Companies are following the throw away and buy new Scheme so they are slowly forcing you into using Windows 11 if you want to install newer programs.
@@GeorgeCardoso-mh2eihow about auto HDR?
Intel and Nvidia awful anti consumer practices, and linus Torvalds said fk Nvidia
Finally someone testing win10 vs win11 !!!
It was so obviously a win 11 issue when we had linux people praising ryzen 9000, while everyone that tested on windows (sadly win11...) practically said:
"cpu below expectations/advertisement, not recommended".
Another reason why win11 is trash…
no shit i been telling people with a amd cpu that microsoft is screwing us from the start by upgrading to windows 11
I've told my friend that I helped build his 5800X to stay on 10. I expect he will remain until 11 is the only free option that's a mature Windows without paying monthly. Win11 direct storage and AutoHDR aren't really enough (some Linux distros have HDR on KDE too, my AMD gpu has it on Nobara 40). Most people I think are served by staying until MS makes them pay to subscribe to 10, then maybe they are forced into an upgrade to save money. That or they do a new build. My one remaining 10 LTSC install is going Linux or staying offline when the time comes.
@@MaryannLynch-z9c I'd spend time learning a Linux distro just to get away from microshits bullishit.
@@ArtisChronicles yeah then you can play 25% of your games with 5% higher FPS, 25% of you games at 20% lower FPS, and 50% at 0fps and that's after you spend a week getting Linux gaming even working at all assuming you have no other hardware that has no Linux drivers and are told "well why would you run that hardware, are you stupid" by the linux community. Linux only survives because of the Linux community, and Linux will never become mainstream because of the linux community. ;-)
You can leave out the amd in that statement
Win11 was always gash
As an Intel user, Windows 10 has been superior as well.
can you test 5000 series, they said they are affected aswell and we see no reviewer talking or showing benchmark about it
I will test that and follow up on it for you man, so far we have power profiles as well, so will take a look at that as well!
Yes please!! I was about to ask for it as well, thank you so much.@@techyescity Even if 5000 series are somewhat old already, so many people still have them. The R5 5600 is basically one of the best bang for the buck CPUs of the past few years with so many current users.
@@techyescity hope to get that video, almost all of my friends and coworkers are on am4 platform so it will be so helpful to test that.
@@techyescityplease do Bryan!! A lot lf us would be thankful for that, great job on the findings so far! 😊
Yup, we would like to know too. Recently upgrade to 5700X3D after watching your video. So, I would like to know too. Still running Windows 10 until Oct 2025.
This does explain why Linux users consistently praise Zen 5.
Windows 10 IoT LTSC best gaming OS, no debate. Official support until 2032 too, lowest DPC and mouse latency. Nothing else matters.
Free windows is best windows
Even on Linux the uplift is mediocre at best, and often downright disappointing. Even on avx512 friendly real workloads the uplift is much smaller than what e.g. zen4 brought. As a whole, we have not seen uplifts this small since before zen 1! If anybody is truly happy with this, I don't understand why.
i will never understand why people want to switch to Linux it's totally user unfriendly and OS compatibility with most software is utter dogsh!t
@@hyperixz I've honestly had way less issues with Linux than Windows. No weird driver problems, no updates breaking things, no reboots while I'm trying to work, better security without sacrifices in performance, and more. I use both for work related reasons, but Linux is by far less of a headache.
Windows 11 = Vista II.
The list of CON's is long and growing, while the list of PRO's is still empty.
Vista 11 :I
And Win 10 will become the new Win 7.
@@rustyclark2356
the tech needs to become stable for widespread adoption and even then it still takes a very long time to adopt.
games coming out now were started and planned with tech from 2-8 years ago.
@@rustyclark2356 but directstorage works on Win 10 too (most part of it). I.E: Hunt 1896 now uses it.
I wouldn’t say that PRO’s list is completely empty. For example compared to windows 10 there’s actually properly working HDR and calibration.
Microsoft & Intel: Handshake... lets make intel win
AMD: ok fine, we will wait until the time we have issue to win over intel, then we will make fuss about this so that people know it's window's fault and everyone get free performance and we win again
i mean microsoft seems to be only half patching this so intel still on lead.
I don't think so... On my old 8700K wind 11 modded without security features enabled clean install on a fast M2 SSD run slow, even the UI was constantly being fast and slow randomly without doing anything and just all drivers installed, also a lot of games lost a few FPS...
1 day with wind 11 for me was enough to do a full clean wind 10 install back again and everything is smooth again...
Edit: forgot to say I fckin hate the new UI and menus from Win11 🤬
this is just cope. w11 has the same performance as w10 once defender is disabled.
There's a lot of actual benchmark deniers on the Intels side, Intel already lost gaming crown, and this doesn't help them feel better.
Intel subreddit has been shadowbanning many people exposing this issues as well.
@@griffin1366 Have you, uh, watched the previous video?
Your results are in line with what I am seeing on my 7700X. Win 10 = Win 11 24H2 performance (core isolation off).
What is crazy to me is that Ryzen 4 works well on both versions of Windows, while Ryzen 5 works well only on Windows 10.
That is veeerrryyy strange...
Yeah I went ahead and installed 24H2 on my 7950X3D and I see up to about 30% increase in performance in some games. Tarkov for example got a massive upgrade going to the update
Yeah it definitely is weird, but regardless i stopped pondering over the way and just learnt to stick to numbers and statistics.
@@MIBxSpartan 23H2 even with that patch is seriously broken
zen 5 have a different architetture from zen 4 so probabily microsoft will need multiple patch and i think windows 11 scheduler it's made for intel/arm in mind
Windows 10 IoT LTSC best gaming OS, no debate. Official support until 2032 too, lowest DPC and mouse latency. Nothing else matters.
It's concerning that Windows has been heading downhill since Windows 7. Linux has a bright future
That's what they say since ... forever.
i mean there are improvement but most people simply get used to Windows's or MacOS's UI
Only if linux becomes user friendly without the usage of terminal then people may consider it. Just like Android.
@@Barood88 No reasons to use the terminal in Linux if you don't want to. Its also more user friendly than Windows these days.
Windows 7 is so frigin fast. I miss it bad.
@@notjustforhackers4252 I use both terminal and gui in linux. Installing wine, doing updates, fixing dependencies, installing dpkg and flatpaks through terminal is easier. But majority of people got used to windows that they may consider linux if it becomes more GUI based like windows. It can be possible if companies like "Canonical" makes it happen.
Been thinking of upgrading to Windows 10 from Windows 11 for awhile. Thank you for the motivation
It’s crazy to see that in W10 the 9700X is actually a good cpu with a good generational uplift and perfroms close to the 7800X3D
One of the reasons why I went back to W10.
I went even further - Linux 😀
@@livemadseason I went even further, Ms-DOS 💻💻
one of the reason i went back to win7... and when win7 was used - vista & obv from vista to XP cuz vista was trash anyway.
but srsly every new windows slowed down performance. from Win7 to 8 there was a degradation in performance, same goes for XP vs vista / win7. XP had way better performance than win7. just u got forced to use win7 due to secruity & directX support
noone is forced to use windows 11 in the same way
So the argument is a bit shit for win11?
Also your claim is false
vista was objectively slower and worse than win7 that came after it
@@Vss077vista was worse anf slower han win7 coming after it, so that claim is false
Intel worked with Microsoft to ensure they nerf AMD hardware. Was in a US court case a few years ago. They were basically told "stop doing that" but no fine or legal basis to stop doing it, so they never stopped doing it.
what baffles me is that win10 is still outperforming win11 patched version....
great video, thanks. a lot of those "famous youtubers" are just racing for clicks. Accuracy is out, drama and "angry faces and click-baity titles" are in. Am dual-booting to Mint Linux on my second rig now, learning the ropes. Support for games are still janky, needing to familiarize with Proton, Wine, Heroic launcher etc..but overall it's easier than expected. Gaming in Steam with Linux are excellent. Hope Linux continue to increase in popularity and finally put some pressure on MS and their crap products and unfair practices.
Thank you for this excellent video! This is pure madness. Honestly, as an average Joe, I thought about switching to Intel because I felt my AMD rig had problems. Now it is just MS screwing around... :/
Thanks for being relaxed. Your chill attitude is much appreciated.
The 1990s called and it wants Wintel back.
Windows 11 its a dissaster, UI downgrades, BLOAT, higher hardware requirements, and what we knew AMD having issues that took 4 years to fix. unacceptable
+Win 11 usability simply sucks, its unresponsive and laggy... microsoft is really clueless these days
Brian, from personal experience switching from Windows 7 to windows 10 I seen a simular drop in FPS being tanked especially in the early days, but yes you are right Microsoft shouldn't be enforcing online activity to access your pc, like had an issue with using a simcard modem as refuse to pay extorsion for a fixed phoneline and isp prices, but yet having bs internet connection and drop outs for hours on end at times, windows 11 came back with cannot connect to the internet connect your ethernet cable to finish installing windows. had to work around it by connecting my phone to my pc luckily having internet on my phone as well. Windows 11 is bs anyway.
Ive a Ryzen 3900x and from win 10 to 11 23h2 third update ive lost 34% performance... like what the hell... i went back to win 10 again, this is unbelieveable!
Marty, we have to go back!!!
This is why I avoided Windows 11 entirely. I know it's easy to say this now, but I suspected that Microsoft was planning some foul play with Windows 11 right from the start.
Moving to Linux when Win10 is EOL next year
do it now and dualboot to be accustomed for the change
@@darukutsu Screw dual-booting, MS always ends up killing bootloader.
Just get a cheap SSD and set BIOS to default to your daily-driver and use Esc/F2 Setup whatever to interrupt boot and select the other OS drive to boot from.
@@boots7859 dualbooting on different drives isn't problem wdym? systemd boot works great
@@darukutsu yep but sharing ntfs drive is a baaaaaad idea. but yeah, a linux on an external nvme without using your ntfs drive for gaming or working is ok. Just stay focus on where you install your boot partition.
W11 intentional sabotage against amd? 🤔
always has been. since the launch of W11, it has been problems galore with Ryzen systems. one issue after another
Tech YES City, great content bro
Love how you called out the rush reviews that are farming drama around the 12 minute mark, when performance numbers clearly made no sense for AMD to release and yet they did not make the effort to dig deeper.
I am sure everyone can infer from looking at a certain 'gamer' channel that recently just crossed the 1 million subscriber mark that farmed like 10 videos of click/ragebait on Zen 5.
Intel asked Microsoft: Can you make our gen 13 and 14 processor faster than Ryzen? We are loosing hard. Microsoft answer- How? Why you do not make them yourself? Intel - We cannot, but you can, by sabotaging AMD and making Ryzen processors run slower in Windows 11. Microsoft - Done!
I'd like a windows 11 rant. Can be in podcast form so I can listen to it while installing windows 10.
Because of these type of videos is why you are one of the best on YT for sure. Great insight as always!
It’s just Poo, complete Poo, poo being flung around 😂😂 that is the most accurate description of Microsoft ever !!
Something to note if youre testing this yourself. The FPS loss from core isolation is really only in CPU bottlenecked situations such as in 1080p. I tested in 1440p and 4k with ray tracing/path tracing and the negative effect is neglectable. HOWEVER, in older and less optimized games like Guild Wars 2, where even on high resolutions, the CPU is the bottle neck, there is a huge effect, up to 10% less FPS. I think this applies to a lot of MMORPGs where there are lots of players and the CPU is pushed hard. So it really depends on your use case if you want to disable core isolation, either way, the fact this happens and you are not warned is insane.
I really appreciate the amount of testing you do. Nobody else that I watch does all of these side-by-side tests, which I know take many hours to do.
Congrats! It would be interesting to check out Windows 10 LTSC as well.
If windows having trouble optimizing both Intel and AMD in one build without hurting one or the other why not have an AMD build and one for Intel
I may be misremembering things, but I remember, there was a time with Windows 10 where they activated cored isolation by default, and the performance hit was pretty massive, after which they turned it off by default. When it was back on Windows 11 I assumed they patched it to not impact as much, but I guess that was wishful thinking smh. Great vid.
Btw, I sent you an invite to the deadlock beta on steam, I'd love to see a cheap used build themed around the game, like the good old days, cheers.
Don't use Windows 11
that easy
Thank you for doing these videos. It confirms to me I will be staying on windows 10 with my Ryzen 9 5950x.
Thank you
Man I've followed your channel for quite a while and I'm glad you covered this properly. I agree with everything you said at the end too. I'll be staying on W10 for as long as possible.
I sense "Linux gaming might option" here. But Win11 fit the pattern:
....Win 98SE good, Win Me bad, Win XP good, Win Vista bad, Win 7 good, Win 8 bad, Win 10 good, Win 11 (╯‵□′)╯︵┻━┻
8.1 is a bit of a paradox then
Steam on Linux is pretty good, enough where I've not went back to dual boot for at least a few months. It's progressing. Anticheat FPS games are the main caveat where some people might need a VM/dualboot depending. I look up new releases on Proton DB lately & usually new titles are playable on launch.
@@Hash-88 Hush, brothersister. Don't tell anyone. It's a secret.
great job brother keep us updated about this topic
This is why i love linux, i have yet to have any form of regression in performance on both my desktop, and laptop. Both are AMD systems. If anything performance keeps getting better with every update. And i love it.
It's weird, on a lower end system, R5 5600 and 6700xt I'm getting better performance in most games on the newest 11 patch than 10 now. Would be interested to see a setup like mine tested more thoroughly.
I have the same combo and not giving up on it; serves me well (Zen 3 truly is AMD's Sandy Bridge) ... Tried many Linux distros over the years, but had to stick to Windows because of ArcheAge. Now AA is dead (in EU and US). Hopefully Cosmic moves past alpha ASAP. Not playing anything online anytime soon, if ever again.
VBS is a great security feature. They need to fix the issue. It shouldn't cost 30% performance.
The YES is UNIVERSALly good!
so basically I was right when I felt windows 10 ran so much better than windows 11
I'm dual booting Linux and Windows. Windows 10, that is. I tried 11, and tried to force myself to use it for a couple weeks, and I didn't even make this long.
I also find myself using Linux more and more with each passing day. I've just gravitated to it more.
I think my days of Windows are quite numbered, thankfully. Microsoft is one of the grossest companies in existence, never mind the the tech space. The further away from them I can put myself, the better.
Microsoft is going full enshittification with Windows 11, I have no intention of moving from windows 10
Yep - and again... Less and less reason to even change to Win 11. I'll remain on Win 10 since it seems to be the safer, more stable and much more secure option. Now i wait for Win 12 - and then wait another year - and after people found out how much is broken on that one i'll decide again on if a upgrade is worth the headache.
I'll probably run Ubuntu Mint. Just wash my hands of windows through all of this bs
finally it is not amd marketing problem, it is microsoft problem...
Using Win 10 LTSC 2019 no regrets !
Microsoft will have to tear Windows 10 from my cold dead hands.
After I download these FPS, how do I download more RAM?
Optimize windows :P
You will need to wait for the next Windows 11 patch 😂
With Linux 😀
@@livemadseasonagreed.
Titus debloat script.
how fast you brought part 2 up. respect
Learning how to move over to Linux now. Been playing on and off with Linux for a while now. But now I'm using it everyday on a secondary system trying to get everything to work. Learning a lot. Will be off proprietary software soon.
Sadly at some point of time Windows 10 installer will probably stop working on most up-to-date hardware.
I jumped back to windows 10 when microsoft was threatening me with 'recall'. Ill be staying here for a while. I dont trust them.
Would be cool to see a 30-day linux video from TYC.
I use a stripped windows 10 for maximum power!!!!
LTSC to the extreme
What build you runnin'? Or you custom your own?
@@wowwhataworld.9590ghost spectre is the best one, try it and see for yourself. Been using for the last 6 years never gone back to original windows.
@@wowwhataworld.9590 Made my own using NTLite and following channel Fr33thy instructions.
Wintel is a fitting name for win 11
Already had it off xD turned off as much as possible, as an i.t. guy im not at all worried about security on my gaming computer. i spend several hours turning off as much of windows as possible, and i always get a huge boost . a few dozen settings that get you 3/4 of a fps add up when they're all together
Hardware unboxed did not find these differences?
I dualboot Arch Linux and W11, Arch its a beast on speed, even de bloated W11 can't match its speed.
I started with dual boot getting back to Linux gaming W11 definetly pushed me back. Nobara KDE, but on Arch based 2-3 years ago I used to use Manjaro and then ArcoLinux. Steam and Linux gaming has come a long way compared to back then. Debloating 10 and 11 on machines took a lot of time to keep up each update.
Arch Linux can't match the speed of OpenBSD on my PowerPC!
@@oberpenneraffeopenbsd has no software bro 💀
@@darukutsu OpenBSD can run every open source Linux software, just recompile it and you are good to go.
@@oberpenneraffe with that attitude windows can run any linux software and viceversa
You know what im jumping to linux
Thank you for that video. I could not understand why was I having so many instability problems with my 7800x3d on win11
I agree with what you said about not being forced to use a password on Windows 11.
Today it's, "OMG! You can download more FPS!"
Tomorrow it'll be, "Wait for me a minute, I'm downloading faster RAM."
People keep forgetting through the passage of time that every 2nd OS Microsoft releases is better that the previous starting from 95 (although the way things are going I think 12 is going to break this chain):
95- Very good
95 v2- Better via adding USB support
98- Very good
98SE- Better via adding USB 2.0 support
ME- Trash, System Restore & Y2K bug fear was bait
XP- Best of all time
Vista- Trash, DirectX 10 was bait
7- One of the best
8- Trash
10- Decent
11- Trash
Sounds like the stuff intel did with bribes and malpractice in the old days of windows 8 😂
You mean the old days of windows 98 ? :')
Me chilling on Linux in the meanwhile, getting even more FPS than Windows 10. Windows is just getting constantly worse since almost 10 years now.
Windows 10 LTSC till I d-i-e.
Sadly, I've noticed the same thing using Windows 11 for the last couple of months. I only decided to test Windows 11 since we only have about a year left of Windows 10 support if we don't want to pay extra. Window 11 in my experience is slower for all-around daily tasks as well as gaming. I don't have CPU or RAM-heavy workloads so I can't speak to that but for all of my needs Windows 11 is slower and more buggy in every way. I tested on 3 different PC both supported and non-supported hardware Intel and AMD and it's sluggish on all 3. I honestly don't know what to do as I depend on Windows for certain things.
Slower, more bloatware, more useful features removed, more telemetry, more stupid forced shit enabled.. and that is why win10 is my final MS os, switching to linux, currently on Fedora 40
We used to call telemetry "keylogging.". How would you like a bunch of strange men in Philippines or Nigeria monitoring your wife's camera?
You will be surprised once you test win10 1909 vs 22h2, Microsoft is continuously screwing AMD cpus starting from that point
Try Nobara Linux .. Show people the difference..
There are other gaming Linux distros
CachyOS
Microsoft is also screwing Windows 11 in itself. This shit is laggy like the first android phones :D
r5 3600 + 5600xt & W11+patch. Warzone 3 went from 90-100fps to about 100-120 fps , Battlefield 2042 has alot less stutters, and desktop feels much more responsive.
The only thing left to know is if Intel paid Microsoft to hammer AMD cpu's..... Funny thing is that Xbox uses AMD architecture.... So I think they did it on purpose
Yep, I'm staying on Win 10 until the games I want to run, or the hardware I want to use, forces me to Win 11... just like was the case for me for Win 7.
Excellent video. Thank you so much for putting time and effort into making such detailed video with receipts and letting the community know.
If only there was a way to make rtx hdr work on win10
I thought win 11 had a better task scheduler giving better fps.. is that a win 11 release only thing, and now after the updates, win 10 is faster?
I feel bad for all the "non-tech-savvy" gamers out there fed up with Win11 and what MS is shoving down their throats with each update of 11. They understandably come flocking to the Linux camp, but doing so with the Windows mindset and this most always leaves them disenchanted turning back to MS.
ONLY because Microsoft cannot get, or does not want to get, it's act together and extend it's Win10 support or significantly alters it's W11 dev direction.
PS for those of us who are tech savvy, gaming on Linux can offer a lot. But like I said it's not for all, not yet.
What you said about AMD possibly not working with Microsoft enough to optimize for Zen 4 and 5 is exactly what happened in Windows 11. AMD handled it with a wait and see approach with Windows 11 because they were not sure how many people would jump to the OS. IT organizations are not switching to Windows 11 for the very reasons you stated, it's still a little buggy. My entire company is still on Win 10 22H2. We have been testing Win 11 23H2 for months and we are still skeptical of it.
I’ll put Vaseline on my next PC parts list. Thanks Microsoft
Don't worry knowing microsoft they will release an update to gimp w10 performance so it aligns with w11
No surprise, WinTel was a thing for years...
"Foreseeable future" Reminder that Windows 10 End Of Life (EOL) date is almost a year from now on October 14, 2025! Unless you ignore the security issues of using an EOL operating system, you will not be using Windows 10 that much longer. If 11 sucks that much, its time for you to explore other operating systems like Linux or whatever Mac OS is called now.
I know people running W7 who are fine.
Like most people, they are on broadband, which gives them NAT protection.
They use the free version of a well known A/V likely AVAST or similar.
The also use the free version of SandBoxie to sandbox and isolate their Chrome/Firefox web browser from W7.
In reality, its the SandBoxie and the Ublock Origin browser extension that stops 99%. And like always, MS will have extensions to W10 EOL at the very end, as there are still large customers with fleets who can't afford to upgrade en masse and support will extend for another year or 2. Some of the LTSC versions are going to be supported until like 2028/29.
MS would love everyone to believe there is a hard date.
You could just use 0patch to keep using Windows 10 safely after the updates are over. It's free for personal, non-profit educational and testing use.
The return of the Megaman music outro. 😅
12:05 HUB is guilty lol.
Hardware Unboxed did a video about Windows 10 vs 11 on a lot of games. Their findings were that you can have ''bad'' and ''good'' Windows installs on both 10 and 11. The bad install has worse FPS and the good has better. So there seems to be a Windows install lottery.
It's more objective than that - it is literally a Windows setting in Windows 11 that is enabled by default in 11 that harms FPS, but on 10 it is disabled by default giving better fps by default on Windows 10
@@marknewellmusic They took that into account also. You should watch the video.
I have reinstalled windows 10 a few times now, it's very consistent. Windows 11 I really don't want to bother with it after this testing, and also a few more tests I have to run with it.
@@soklot cheers I was pushed for time so had to cut watching the vid, will see whole thing later 🍻
The elephant in the room might be the effect of all the telemetry and in both Win10 and Win11 on performance. Would be interesting to see that tested.
So that's 11900K + Win 10 :). Thanks for keeping us informed!
Intel is crap, AMD only ✌️😊
HU Steve talked about the win10 vs win11 performance difference and he found that it also mattered how you installed win11 (upgrade or fresh install). Which is just absurd
It always did. I notice the 24H2 Win 11 update will do a complete reinstall as an upgrade.
Not absurd at all, it's always been best practice to re-install software upgrades and drivers.
R5 3600 here, still not sure if I should just install 10 again or give 11 another try :D I really don't wanna lose fps or get stutters because my mid tier setup is only getting older D:
Yeah, I've been saying this for the past year and a half. During that time, I've been through 3 different pc's trying to sort out issues that were probably all related to windows 11. I never even tried windows 10 because I was under the impression that windows 11 was superior, and my copy of windows 10 was upgraded to windows 11, so my product key doesn't work for 10 anymore.
Windows 11 has horrible bugs with NVidia gpus. There's an issue where the GeForce overlay causes the taskbar to flicker when the desktop is refreshed. The ONLY way to fix that bug is to literally turn off the GeForce overlay. That's it. NOTHING else will fix it. But Nvidia tried to gaslight me into thinking there was no issue. But years later, my old pc still has that problem even after all the updates.
I'm on a full AMD pc now and the bugs just keep showing up. I barley even touch my pc anymore and just play on my Xbox. When I gain the energy back, I might downgrade to windows 10, but at this point I'm so fed up with PCs I just don't care enough anymore. I hope these companies burn for this so I can piss on their ashes.