TDI ALH Diesel Pump Timing? Answered in comments.
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2017
- I have a Bosch 0-460-414-987 1.9L 11mm diesel injection pump that was in a car and sitting for almost 2 years.. The pump is on a 2001 VW Jetta ALH TDI. I tried to clean the pump on the car but the tiny low pressure pump vanes were stuck, resulting in no diesel being pumped into the unit. I have two of these pumps. The one off the car I have previously disassembled and reassembled, but I have one question: What is the orientation of the shaft timing alignment/sprocket-connection gear? HELP!.
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five years later found this video useful and you just saved me some headaches , some older pumps do have the timing at 12 o clock , these do not, i just saw the notch at the left and will use it to keep the timing correct , i also saw you other detailed part dissembled video and made me decide to go for it , Blessings and thank you
That is way I made this video. It was not obvious until, on my pump, I saw the timing notch. Did you get it all back together and working again? When I made the video they were still charging over $900 USD to rebuild these ALH diesel pumps. The two pumps I rebuilt just needed a good clean and no parts. They are real tough.
Love from Chicago
@@GallowayChicago yes I reassembled it following your instructions not yet running as I have a stripped Bolt on an injector.
Thank you sir this is what I was looking for
started like a dream
If you take a close look you can see the mark on the shaft is pointing to the A feed or "injector one"
Thanks for helping out.. but since I have since found the answer = the mark is on the pump body and once the shaft is aligned the positioning will be pointing to "injector one"
TDI Love From Chicago...
is this a electric pump or manual pump? if manual ,can we put manuel pump instead of electric pump? coz my car is throwing so much black smoke when accelerating the car. is that a pump problem ? all mechanics are saying its a problem of pump. and this thing is very expensive here in my country 😟😞regards
Thanks for watching. This is identified as a mechanical(manual) pump. All the TDI main high-pressure pumps are mechanical. They are driven from either the main timing belt or the camshaft. The only electrical diesel pumps are line-pressure or line pre-pressure pumps. Each pump is vehicle year specific and can not be substituted for different motor types. My 2001 ALH only has the mechanical pump and no assistive electrical line pre-pressure pumps. Black smoke can be a sign of a timing problem, a bad IQ(injection quantity) unit, or dirty injectors. The pre-1998 Diesel pumps are 100% mechanical and have a cable from the accelerator pedal to the pump and 100% mechanical injectors. After 1998 all TDI diesel pumps have a computer controlled IQ(injection quantity) that control the acceleration paired with mechanical injectors, but the vehicle timing is maintained by the pump. After 2004 all 1.9L TDI switched to a high-pressure cam-shaft driven pump that no longer controlled the injection timing and instead went with electrically controlled injectors and computer timing. In 2009 the 2.0L TDI was changed back to a high-pressure timing belt driven pump with electronically controlled injectors and computer timing.
In your case, I would look at the IQ component. If your pump is similar to my pump in the video, you can take the IQ top off and move the swingarm by hand. I would look for position and swing arm return. I cleaned my IQ by removing it and soaking it in xylol for 24 hrs, but you have to also remove the IQ control parts from the pump body. The pump should be removed from the vehicle. the good news is that these pumps are easy to rebuild and there are very few parts the wear. Once removed from the vehicle it is easily disassembled. Requiring a skill level of 2 out of 10. I do not know why these high-pressure diesel pumps are so expensive. While doing my rebuild I expected to find delicate parts that needed to be highly calibrated or adjusted, but there are none.
I would suggest that you buy a used pump from the same make and model year as your vehicle and rebuild it yourself. my auto parts junkyard charged me 20% of what the price was for a new pump and it was the only reason I attempted the rebuild. When I was done I had two pumps that are both usable.
Note: On the IQ. from my ALH what happens is that the throttle spring return gets gummed up. Once cleaned (and not replaced) the springs will perform like new and thus the IQ will perform like new as well. The IQ connects to an adjustment cam on the main pump shaft. This came also get gummed up and needs cleaning. I removed my IQ cam and polished it then cleaned its small holes with carborator/parts spray cleaner. I then oiled the parts with diesel to keep them from rusting or accumulating water. In the belly of the pump is another ideal adjustment cam. In this area on my pump, there were signs of water accumulation and minor oxidation(rust). This area was sticking badly and required heavy polishing. This area is adjusted by the computer to compensate for motor ideal needs while the motor warms up to operating temperature.
Having done it I would say "DO IT".
If your engine looks like ua-cam.com/video/sAQFfJQn91s/v-deo.html than your diesel pump is driven by the motor's timing belt BUT the controls seem to be computer electronically controlled. Assuming your motor is the same; The pump controls the timing and black smoke is a product on unburnt diesel. This is usually caused by too much diesel being sent into the cylinders. Once again the areas to look at are (1)computer-controlled IQ on top of the diesel pump, (2) The Diesel filter, (3) the Diesel injectors, (4) Cylinder rings/pressure, (5) Timing belt. because the timing belt controls the diesel pump and the diesel pump controls the motor timing as the belt gets old and stretches the pump is designed to compensate to a point, but after that point, it is necessary to replace the timing belt to correct timing related poor diesel fuel usage.
(point #2 Low Power) This is either turbo or cylinder compression related. The turbo has many points of failure. vacuum lines, oil lines, compressor bearings. And cylinder compression is easy to test on diesel. To test cylinder compression you simply remove the glowplug or the diesel injector and insert a compression gauge with the correct adapter.
check out this video too: ua-cam.com/video/V3KKzuh5LIs/v-deo.html
I'm curious how do you manage to put this pump back together and working properly when Bosch service shops use very expensive gear to fine tune them.. even the simple operation of replacing the seals I have heard is difficult precisely because the the reassembly has to be so precise that it will requere tuning with high-tech gear afterwards. Or is this all myth and the Bosch service shops are stealing customers?
Thanks for watching, I would never disparage Bosch or Bosch service, but when disassembling and reassembling these diesel pumps there is no tuning/adjustments that can be done with the internal parts. The top of the pump's positioning (via hammer mod) will change IQ (injection quantity) and the three mounting bolts will adjust the diesel motor's timing. I noticed and showed in the video that the high pressure rollers will gouge the inner pump body and I guess Bosch service would say that the pump I rebuilt was not suitable for usage. I AM NO EXPERT, but I have changed 5 seals and never lost a pin, and the rebuilding was 1000% easier then I thought, because all I could find online was warning about opening the ALH pump.
Here is the bottom-line: I was at the point where the pump was un-usable. So, Rebuilding it could not hurt. I bought a cheap puller set from HF and with that $24 kit I rebuilt two diesel pumps. In the process the puller broke but the price of a new or rebuilt pump was over $1,000.00 (USD) each at the time.
One Note: I cleaned and polished all the pump's internal parts before reassembling. I think that if you do not polish all the parts that diesel gook will just reattach to the pump and gum up the works again. I installed the pump from the video in a 2003 VW Jetta and it is still running today.
Lastly: Some people will tell you doing repairs is/are very difficult, but if you ask them they will tell you they have never done it. Well I have rebuilt two diesel pumps, and I can tell you changing a power window regulator it harder. These extremely high pressure pumps are almost bulletproof (not much inside to break). The reality is that almost 75% of the problem from these pumps come from the IQ unit being gummed-up with oxidized diesel. Removing the IQ requires removing the pump from the auto, but once you have freed-up the IQ swing-arm movement. The TDI will run like new. My problem was that I let the diesel set for almost 6 months with untreated diesel in it and the bottom of the pump where diesel junk is supposed to accumulate was over filled and everything inside the pump was so bad that the TDI would not even start. The auto was not running because the automatic trans was bad (no reverse and no first gears). I did a Auto trans to 5-speed transplant (this too was way easier then the tutorials make it out to be). The new knock-off non-Bosch pumps from eBay are cheap but I would never trust a no name pump to last any where near the life you can get out of even a re-built Bosch. I have used/Installed the cheap Larger diesel Injectors and for under $200 (USD) you can gain some real power, but then you have to upgrade the turbo to improve your power band. These TDI are easy to work on and just take a willingness to learn as you go. I will always have a fondness for ALH TDI's because it was the first motor I rebuilt and my kids learned to drive stick in an auto that was safe and forgiving.
TDI Love from Chicago.
@@GallowayChicago thank you very much for your comprehensive reply, I really appreciate it and admire your perseverance. I can't find the exact video of a Bosch technician calibrating a VE injection pump but they use high precision specialized workbenches like the ones in this video,
ua-cam.com/video/99uLyZK8OOU/v-deo.html
not trying in any way to put down the amazing work you're sharing here, but I'm still perplexed how can one reassemble this pump and put it working up to specs if Bosch technicians themselves use equipment like this? Don't get me wrong, I perfectly understand the reasoning you just described and I will probably try the same route myself - very much for the same reason, I have the same engine as you and a local Bosch workshop charges me minimum 800€ for replacing the pump's seals/recalibrating.
Have you tried an injector cleaner like "Liqui Moly" that you simply mix with your diesel? I suppose if it cleans the injectors without disassembly it should also benefit the pump.
Finally: ever ventured into timing belt replacement?
TDI Love from Europe :)
@@zaratrusta79 The video you linked was about injectors and injector shims used to adjust flow. Did I tell you I'm no expert, but everything inside the pump's lower body is not adjustable. the top of the pump is electronically controlled and that is where the magic happens. That is why I said that 75% of the time it is the IQ(or QA) swing-arm in the top of the pump. There are lots of videos (some where I don't know the language but know its about the IQ/QA) of guys diagnosing the problem (ua-cam.com/video/iLQrxy3___E/v-deo.html) or removing and cleaning the IQ module (ua-cam.com/video/eab60JQprJY/v-deo.html). You should be able to move the swing -are by hand with it springing quickly back to its resting place.
Simple check (ua-cam.com/video/PSbpLFRGqDQ/v-deo.html)
If your TDI runs then I would not remove the pump. I have used "Liqui Moly' and other product that say they work wonders with diesel pumps and injectors (the ALH in the US has catalyst converter and you have to be careful about the products you use in the diesel fuel pathway). I have found no better fuel additive then ATF+4. It does not remove water or increase the cetane level but wow does it clean the fuel pathway from the tank to the injectors. If you have water in your diesel then there are additive that are clearly made for that. Below freezing weather is when you should be very concerned about water in the diesel because the bottom of the pump and oem fuel filter are where this water is typically separated and it can freeze there and cause real damage.
The timing on these is not difficult. The OEM timing belts were defective and were breaking long before their rating. For that reason VW moved up the timing belt replacement requirement (which they also did for the DualMass Clutches), but the good news is that the new Timing belts will almost last 10 years. If you do not know if the timing belt has been changed I highly recommend changing it. I did a video about changing the timing belt without VW's specialized tools, but now those tools are easy to get. When I did my first one VW wanted almost 10 time what other manufactures charged to change the timing and told me I needed a new engine that was all worth more then the car.
Let UA-cam guide you in your repairs and diagnostics. Back when I needed help there were no videos and only the VW forums were there to help. You got this. My wife was t-boned in her 2000 VW Golf TDI when a guy ran a light at over 50MPH and the 2010 Honda was totaled but her TDI only needed $1,300 and you would have never known it was even hit. Most people don't know that these TDI autos have cross bracing in the doors to save your life in a side impact accident. Her car was pushed laterally 3 time (and showed three impact marks) in this one accident instead of rolling over or crushing like the modern tin can autos.
TDI Love From Chicago...
Preveli na srpski
P
Thanks for video. My car is New beetle 1.9 TDI(ALH). Not long ago, I re-installed the IP, but it won't start. IP is a normal product. I think it didn't fit well when I put the IP pulley on the shaft. Do I have to fit the pulley groove into the key groove like this video? (This article is translated.)
Thank You For Watching. The pulley for the TDI Injection Pump(IP) must be re-installed correctly. If the auto does not start that could indicate that the timing is not set correctly. The ALH IP controls the timing. If you remove the IP pulley you must re-time the IP the same as I did in the video ua-cam.com/video/YLgfbLUNTEU/v-deo.html Let me know if you have any questions.
TDI Love from Chicago...
@@GallowayChicago Thanks for answer. But, I cannot speak English. Are you saying to set the shaft's groove to 10 o'clock and fit the pulley on top of it?
The keyway or hole near the end of the main shaft should be centered at about 80 deg counter-clockwise or at the 10 o'clock position while the black end sprocket is locked with a pin in the 12 o'clock position. Tighten the end nut until the alignment is set. There should be a mark on the pump body indicating the proper orientation. Sorry, I do not speak Korean but hopefully, this translates good for you. I wish you great success.
TDI Love from Chicago...
OK. That's mean is Shaft key-hole at 10 O'clock(80 deg counter-clockwise) position and Sprocket hole at 12 O'clock position?
I was set shaft key-hole and sprocket-hole same to 12 o'clock position.Thank you very much for your explanation. I will set up again and comment this weekend. Thank you again.
My car ran, yesterday! Thanks to you.( I saw marking for shaft position.)
Yep, that's right. The mark you made should be about 12 o clock, making the key about 10 o clock, or 40 degrees to the left. I think the confusion is the feeling that the two mark you talk about need to be aligned. VW loves to make alignment marks, but they are almost always moving part and case, but you already knew that....
Thanks for the Help mate. Knowledge is power,, and this knowledge translates into real money. The current cost to rebuild one of these VW ALH IP pumps if anywhere from $400.oo US to $900.oo US. These pumps are the very heart and sole of these diesel auto but come on we VW owner have got to eat too.
TDI Love from Chicago.
Take a look at tdiclub and make a post linking this video. You'll get plenty of help and some more views
From (jimbote on forums.tdiclub.com 02-26-14, 12:49 PM) link: forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4454788&postcount=2
HE SAYS: Look at the main pump body's front main shaft seal. Notice that little mark on the metal flange that holds the seal at about 60deg counter-clockwise from the top(12 o'clock) locking pin hole?...that's the line up mark for the keyway. Using the shaft nut and a wrench turn the shaft until the keyway is visually centered on the mark then tighten the lock bolt.... I have seen on some new or re-manufactured pumps from VW the mark is missing ...if that is the case you have to disassemble the pump for the internal line up marks (a pain I know but easier than sending it off to be retimed$$$$$$)...
If you have not front flange mark then, with the pump mainly gutted and working from the head(rear) side...holding the pump vertically facing the rear the marks at 2 o'clock(right one) and 8 o'clock(left one) should line up with the drive lugs. now if you turn the pump around to the front the keyway on the taper should be near 10 o'clock. The 10 o'clock position is near the position marked on the flange of the Bosch OEM pumps.
Thank you Jimbote and Thank you Veteran TDIClub Member KLXD from Lompoc, CA. You are a life saver.
TDI Love from Chicago
Bro Vehicle name please tell me
Brother always seems more respectful then "Bro" but don't let me stray away from your question. The Vehicle is a class of car with the ALH 1.9L diesel motor. The following years, makes and models were available with the ALH (availability differs from country to country):
(VW/Bora/Polo/Caddy) 98-04 New Beetle, 99-04 Jetta/Bora, 99-04 Golf, 99-01 Polo, 00-03 Caddy
(SEAT) 99-02 Ibiza, 99-01 Córdoba, 00-05 León 1M, 99-04 Toledo
(Audi) 97-01 A3 (Mk1)
Diesel mileage differs for each body style with the Beetle getting the highest at 50MPG (US) from the factory.
Euro 1.6L ALH diesel TDI's get higher MPG but I am trying to stay with in the 1.9L family.
The 1.9L ALH motor is rated as follows: (90 PS; 89 bhp) or 66 kW at 3,750 rpm; 155 lbf⋅ft (210 N⋅m) at 1,900 rpm - unmodified. The turbo make this a road worthy auto for daily commutes and still can pay for themselves even with the outrageous higher cost of diesel at the pumps. There are 'NO!' modern gas autos that weight as much a these TDI's that gets comparable MPG and offer the same crash survivability.
I hope I answered your question brother.
TDI Love from Chicago...
sweatheart......its not an 'iq' pump. that is a bosch injection pump. one thing the pump controls is iq---- INJECTION QUANTITY!! IT ALSO CONTROLS TIMING. do they call it a timing pump???? you really should have a real tech working on that
Thanks for watching... I tried my best to use the terminology I have heard other mechanics use, which is difficult because this component is sold in so many different parts of the world. As any visual puzzle solver will tell you taking things apart and putting them back together again is never the problem. The problem is in explaining what was done to others that prove to be the biggest challenge. I have found that this particular diesel pump is able to be torn down and rebuilt properly by "non-experts", because the biggest problem with them is slug and tar that builds-up on the internal components and not wear. What is required is simply to disassemble and clean and polish just about everything then reassemble. This can potentially save a car owner $1,200 US dollars for a new pump. This all came about because I had a 2001 VW Jetta TDI in storage for over on year and the diesel pump totally gummed up requiring either a replacement or to be rebuilt. A professional rebuilder was charging $800 at that time. The pumps from the video are fully functional and have performed without problem(s). my total cost was $75 for the Bosch rebuild kit. I guess you are right I will never teach a class on rebuilding Bosch Diesel pumps, but that was never my intention.
TDI Love from Chicago...
40-60 or put the nutch key pointing 11oclock
Thanks mate. You got the right stuff.