Veganism & Eating Disorder Recovery Don't Mix? (Every Therapist NEEDS This Book!)
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- “Veganism and eating disorder recovery” is often viewed as mutually exclusive, i.e. it’s very hard to recover from an eating disorder while on a vegan diet because a vegan diet is restrictive by its very nature, and restriction and ED recovery don’t mix.
Mental health counselor Jenn Friedman argues in her new book "Veganism and Eating Disorder Recovery" that this view is misguided. It's not evidence-based, and is harmful for the vegan patient's recovery and well-being.
Disclaimer Jenn was kind enough to send me a copy of her book, but I received no compensation for this review.
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0:00 Intro
2:00 Backstory
4:56 The Vegan Mind vs the ED Mind
8:30 Vegetarianism?
9:12 The Evidence
10:50 What's the Harm?
13:57 Agency & Nuance
16:14 Why Vegan?
17:44 Conclusion
19:11 Outro
Veganism actually was how I recovered because I had to reframe food as something I do for others (aka animals), instead of for self-harm as a horrible coping strategy. Plus it required me to eat enough due to the fact I want to stay vegan, so being nutritionally inadequate would mess with that and I don't believe I could allow myself to fall into those behaviors again knowing I'd be forced to change. I don't think I'd be recovered if I hadn't gone vegan, and I might've honestly died without this change in my life.
This is how it went for me as well. As soon as I became vegan, I stopped calorie restricting because I felt like whatever I ate was "good" according to a more important moral standard, and so I stopped feeling guilty -- that shift in framing was transformative and, honestly, so freeing. One of the best decisions I've ever made.
same! Especially the eating enough part.
@@mdoublehb1420Jog on pal, grown ups are talking here
Same! As I had to search for animal derived products on the ingredient's list I stopped hyperfocusing on the nutrition facts and calories + I started as well thinking that every non exploitative food is valid
same! going vegetarian and eventually completely plant based is what helped with the guilt and made me enjoy food again.
Swayze, this video means so much to me! Thank you for taking the time to read my book and share your reflections. I am thrilled that you enjoyed the book and I appreciate your genuine care about the topic. It is also very heartening to see how the topic resonates with your audience in the comments. Again, I'm so very grateful for this video and for your thoughtfulness. 😊
Also, wanting to briefly add that eating disorder recovery coaching is generally well-regarded in the eating disorder field. There are legitimate coaching programs that are taught by experienced professionals. Just wanted to point that out in case anyone happens to be considering it!
@MdoubleHB You are absolutely insane. Please, return to the real world, ASAP!!!
As someone who had severe anorexia, it is so annoying when people would blame my ED on being vegan
My anorexia was a suidice and self harm method due to truama and extreme depression, being vegan is because I had morals
Thank you for sharing this. It really exemplifies the importance of considering individual experiences. That can't be overstated.
@@mdoublehb7549 how tf is feeding kids cooked foods child abuse?? are you ok?
In high school, I was offered a dish that contained meat, and I panicked and blurted out that I was "vegetarian" because the idea of having any food outside of my allowed timeframe absolutely terrified me, and I stuck with it for a year because it was such a convenient excuse. I didn't have any emotional reaction to the meat itself, just the fact that it was food.
A decade later, I've been an ethical vegan for three years. The idea of eating meat makes me incredibly sad, but not "afraid". A good question to ask yourself if you've got a shaky history with food is "would I feel the same way about this product if it had the exact same calorie count, but was vegan?"
I discovered veganism when I was really struggling with an ED (I was vegetarian at the time). I started eating a plant-based diet in order to lose weight but the more I looked into veganism to more it changed my relationship with food and nutrition. It ultimately helped me get over my fear of carbs and brought back the joy of cooking and eating. I have been vegan for over 8 years now and would say that I have pretty much fully recovered from my ED. Also, the vegan lifestyle aligns with my moral compass so it's far more than just food.
@@mdoublehb1420move on, bot.
@@mdoublehb7549 go find a hobby freelee
I’m Emily from the book! Proudly recovered from Bulimia for 4 years now and did it on my own without care so that I could stay vegan. Thank you for making this amazing video on this topic from Jenn’s book and getting this important message out there! 🫶🏼
Thank you Emily for sharing your experience in the book. Your words truly make an impact. I'm grateful for you and your recovery.
❤
Go you!!!!!
Congratulations!
Not ED related, but I remember being a very animal loving child and after watching that Lisa goes vegetarian Simpsons episode, deciding I wanted to be vegetarian. The school dinner ladies wouldn't let me have the vegetarian option because they had to keep portions for the "real vegetarians". I was devastated, and horrified at being served a turkey twizlers (which I think aren't legal for school lunch anymore), and couldn't stop thinking about how it was an actual animal.
I didn't go vegan until I turned 17 and cooked everything for myself, but it's been 10 years now, and no one has made me eat a turkey twizler since 😅
@@mdoublehb1420I hope you're joking. It's not "evil" to cook your food. You don't have to be "raw" to be healthy.
Veganism was never a problem for me, but I did go vegan while struggling with binge eating. I had little to no knowledge of nutrition or how to count calories or anything, but I was obsessed with losing weight. Veganism encouraged me to learn about nutrition and what kinds of foods I should prioritize eating to feel full and to get what I need.
Like you, when I stopped caring about what I looked like and more about functionality, I got better. Not overnight. It was a process. I stopped binge eating, was able to lose the weight I needed to lose, and now I work out because I love how it makes me feel and I found a sport that I love to be part of. And I see my body so differently than I used to. Vegan 4 years now.
I discovered veganism during my recovery from ARFID and had to fight so so hard against my therapist/dietitian and parents (who at times had full control of everything I ate and forced me to eat meat and whatnot that I previously had never ate even before my ED)... Given the nature of ARFID I think veganism is what really helped me to full recover because I made myself try new foods for the sake of the animals and eventually get used to the flavors and textures and ultimately enjoy eating them!! I wouldn't even touch a black bean before and now I can happily eat a spoonful cold lolol
When I was in treatment there were people who admittedly became vegans as a way to practice restrictive eating without scrutiny. I don’t think it’s wrong for people to take a break from any kind of restrictive eating while in recovery. But this kind of blanket advice isn’t good either. For example, there was a girl in my program with a life long phobia of elevators. The program didn’t believe her, thought she was trying to burn extra calories by taking the stairs, and basically told her if she couldn’t get in the elevator she wasn’t ready for treatment. It was a shit show. She had a full blown panic attack and her family doctor had to call the facility to confirm the phobia wasn’t related to her ED. Even if it was, baby steps! This was on our first day. This attitude that everyone’s recovery process has to look the same is a major problem. I didn’t start getting better until I started seeing a therapist privately.
I was in several treatment centers. I got worse to each one I went. They only tihig I learned how to disassociate even more due to the retraumtizing practices they implement. Similar to the girl you were in a treatment with.
that's honestly ridiculous because taking the stairs barely burns any calories anyways. it's not like that small amount of exercise would be putting her in danger so even if it was an excuse, that should have been something they worked out slowly over the course of treatment
@@jojo-7306 there were lots of sneaky addict like things us anorexics did to burn calories (refusing to sit and trying to stand the entire day for example) and I think it’s good that they looked to address those behaviors. But yeah I agree, it was something they needed to explore with her on an individual basis. Her motivation wasn’t anorexia based
@@chelseamarissa382 I’m sorry you went through that ❤️ I think the whole “treat an ED like a drug addiction” model for rehab doesn’t work for anorexia in general. Ideally, everyone should get individual therapy for the condition. Group therapy lead to many people copying fellow patients bad habits. That was another reason they didn’t want to let her take the stairs. They were worried we would copy her
@mdoublehb7549 you're a clown
I recovered from my eating disorder while being a vegan. A was also in a treatmen facility and was able to remain vegan (I'm from Switzerland) . The people there were extremly respectful towards my ethical belief.
I made it clear that my eating disorder had nothing to do with veganism.
Hi, ich hab eine Frage, kennst du vielleicht Klinik, die eine vegane Optioun anbieten?😊Es ist nämlich fast unmöglich etwas zu finden wenn man es einfach googelt😕
I have been struggling with severe anorexia nervosa for several years, since my adolescence (age 12/13). I became an ethical vegan towards the end of an agonising third hospitalisation and have consistently been told that animal products were necessary to recover physically from malnutrition. I was even told that I was endangering my parents' health when they chose to become vegetarian at home out of respect for my ethical beliefs.
Reflecting on my experience, I believe that the intense suffering provoked by both my eating disorder, and the traumatic (and ineffective) treatment I endured, were actually catalysts for my transition to veganism, as they made me much more empathetic to the pain inflicted upon the animals I consumed. My decision was never based upon a desire to restrict my caloric intake, as most of the 'low calorie' foods I had relied on for so long contained dairy.
Veganism has given a purpose to my life, a life that has been largely empty for the past years. I have had my education stripped from me, have been isolated from friends and have often found no meaning in anything at all, but the idea of making a difference, however minute, has made recovery feel more possible than ever.
This is my experience; however, I acknowledge that this is not true for many, including some that I encountered through treatment. This said, I do believe that it is possible to be vegan and recover from an eating disorder and have also met others that have succeeded in doing so. As stated in your video, it is all about one's intention (unfortunately, this can be difficult to discern when one is suffering with acute malnutrition.)
Being autistic, I would also add that an extremely large proportion of those suffering with eating disorders are neurodivergent, individuals who are often more likely to be vegan or vegetarian. With treatment centres becoming increasingly aware of the link between autism and anorexia, I hope to see more research into this relationship.
Hello fellow vegan, I'm very proud of you for posting your story. Veganism is a moral philosophy. It's a decision to strive for change. And I'm truly happy that you are fighting this fight, along with the fight within you. Cause if noone takes the first step to change, when is change ever going to happen?
I wish you a great day and a great life my friend 💚
Former Anorexic and bulimic here. My Veganism has never triggered my eating disorder. The first time I was diagnosed and needed serious professional help was when I was 15 and I was eating meat and dairy at that time. Once I was properly trained in nutrition after a relapse at 19 I’ve been eating disorder “free” and I’m 32 now. Been vegetarian since 18 and Vegan since 28.
If I was forced to eat meat or dairy again that would make me relapse. Id rather die than eat meat or dairy. It’s not a choice for me. Not for eating disorder reasons but for the pure fact that I don’t want other beings, being unalived or harmed to sustain me. I also don’t think I could physically eat meat. I also see the psychologist Ive seen since I was 15 and suffering from ED. She knows I’m vegan. Not once has she expressed concerns about it. She also specializes in ED and got her degree from Harvard…
It’s not a diet…. It’s a lifestyle
I am by no means an expert, but I can speak to my own experience in saying that Vaganism fueled my anorexia. I developed an eating disorder and shortly after went Vegan, yes because I believe in animal ethics but this decision came as an excuse reason to further restrict foods. I have been vegetarian for over ten years because of ethical reasons but Veganism became an excuse for me. I did see an eating disorder therapist who suggested adding all animal products including meat into my diet, which I staunchly refused. While vegetarianism for me was strictly for ethical reasons and not a part of my anorexia, I knew I never wanted to eat meat from the beginning. But being able to remove the restrictive “Vegan” label from myself and ultimately from myself was absolutely necessary for me to recover (I still remained vegetarian throughout my recovery). I was not “forced” to eat animal products, I made this decision on my own with the guidance of a therapist. Thank you for making this video and discussing these topics-Veganism is inherently a restrictive diet. There’s no arguing that. But now that I am multiple years recovered I am working on “restarting” my Vegan journey as I always fully believed in animal advocacy and ethics.
Getting rid of the label helps a lot.
People have to remind themselves that there is very little difference between someone who identifies with the vegan label and lives a vegan lifestyle, and someone who technically lives a vegan or quasi-vegan lifestyle without identifying with the label.
You must do what you must do to survive. I'm happy you feel better.
I'm not familiar with ED treatment centres but I think you hit the nail on the head with vegan diet plans. (In addition to the general societal rejection of veganism)
Most dieticians working in ED treatment will have little knowledge of plant based nutrition, at least probably not enough to devise a balanced, healthy, varied meal plan which is tailored to the individual patient's caloric & nutritional needs.
Plus, it's more work for the chefs & might create in-fighting & disharmony if mealtimes are a group activity?
With veganism (& I imagine EDs?) on the rise, this is something that needs addressing. Yes, some will use veganism as an excuse but 'true' vegans shouldn't have to compromise their ethics in order to recover.
As others have said, what happens to religious practitioners in treatment centres?
PS, what's with the grey rectangle nr the book around 18:13?
I think the main thing is that it's complicated and personalized. When I became vegan, it helped me start overcoming my eating disorder because veganism was more important than restriction. It may be difficult depending on what foods are available, restaurant options, etc. For instance, finding vegan or even vegetarian options in some places is difficult (I was just in Japan and eating out as a vegetarian in most places was difficult). That "forced" restriction from not being able to eat out without resorting to bland salad could potentially prevent someone from getting away from anxiety surrounding eating out. The same could also be said for someone who has food alelrgies.
I could only find one treatment center that didn't required fish consumption, which I have never liked, regardless of my diet. Thankfully that treatment center allowed veganism if they felt it was truly an ethical choice and didn't inhibit recovery.
Really important points.
such an important topic, thank you for covering it!
In my case, my eating disorder made me gave up veganism. I always wanted to be vegan, then at the same time I was finaly independent enough to start eating more vegan meals, I was also developing anorexia nervosa. But, instead the moment I realised I was having eating behavious that were going to make poeple pay atension, I literaly gave up veganism because that was I could restrict more without being noticed. And I still rebember the day , in the midle of my recovery, that I rediscovered veganism, and remebered how important it was to me (I think I left it in an old drawer in the back of my brain). At that moment I started working towards recovery and veganism.
I have struggled with an ED myself and I was only able to be fully vegan once I worked on it enough in therapy cause it was still very hard to understand for me whether I was refusing food bc of morals or calories. Right now I am in a very good place and I am vegan but whenever being vegan "puts at risk" my relationship with food I eat the food that is causing me to have disordered thoughts because I want to be vegan long-term. Mind you this happened like twice in 3 years but still. And this happened both times when I was eating with non vegans that really do not understand veganism at all, because I start thinking that I am a fool and that eating animals and animal products is normal, and I start feeling restricted (which normally never happens to me), and I know how dangerous that restriction is for my brain. If I felt restricted on a vegan diet I would spiral down into binging and the restricting. This is why it's so important to cultivate our morals and values and never give them for granted. The saying "Once a vegan always a vegan" is BULLSHIT in this world right now because daily the world screams at us that we are wrong, so it would be so easy to go back to eating NoRmaL.
I totally believe that other people can heal on a vegan diet but God I've tried so many times and I end up deteriorating each time. There are other factors that are specific to my case, but geez. It really has not had good outcomes for me, and I genuinely do have a lot less stress and far more freedom with food now that I've let go of being vegan for now. But I'm happy other people have succeeded
I guarantee no doctor, therapist or ED 'coach' would dream of telling a Muslim or Jew that they need to give up their Halal or Kosher diet in order to recover.
Great point!
And that's very sad. Imaginary friends are valued too much.
@@AA-cf4es Yep.
I appreciate this video a lot. I have an eating disorder and I’m in recovery. I literally had to bring up the fact that I was aware that there was the vegan and eating disorder sides of my brain were separate. It’s kind like doing mental health therapy and you have to separate your logical and emotional sides of your brain.
I wonder how ED patients with religion-based eating restrictions are treated in those ED facilites, for example Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Jains, Muslims and Seventh Days Adventists. These religions all have a lot of rules around food. I wonder if the patients with such a religion are forced to disobey those religious rules, or is only veganism getting the strange treatment?
Exactly!
@homie3461 Yes, or we should create a religion that prohibits the use of animal products. Religions get so much more protection in the constitutional rights than ideologies. I also noticed that not eating foods for health reasons is also more accepted than for ideological reasons.
@homie3461 Very interesting, thanks for the explanation. Yes, true, not all religions are theistic. And some scholars don't consider buddhism to be a religion, but rather, a “way of life” or a “spiritual tradition.” I hope some groups will take this issue seriously, and protect vegan patients with eating disorders in the treatment centers.
I've heard many good things about Psilocybin mushrooms and their health benefits, I also heard it helps one get through addiction and depression. I'm just wondering where or how I can get my hands on them cause I'll love to give it a try, I'm passing through a state of terrible depression lately
Once I took shrooms on accident they were in a chocolate bar and my fat a** thought it was regular chocolate 😂
[adamsflakessx]
Ships psychedelics
@@userconspiracynut okay but how can I reach out? Is it Instagram?
@@albert.robles7 Yeah, he has variety of stuffs like mushrooms, LSD, DMT even the chocolate bars
The good thing about shrooms is its non addictive, the best experience I've EVER had on ANY drug was shrooms, I've been so happy my face literally hurt from smiling so much for so many hours, but but once the trip wears off the last thing I'm thinking about is dropping another trip, you need time to recover, the closest I'd ever had trips together were a week apart but usually months or years, having said that it's been 5yrs since the last time but certainly would again given the right time and setting
So where I work we don’t let people have restrictive (including vegan) diets or and non-standard dietary preference when in hospital for an eating disorder unless that was a diet they followed before they were acutely unwell. Because they’re often going to tell you anything they can to eat fewer calories and it won’t be anything to do with ethics. I think veganism helped me recover from an massively. Because I was making food choices for a reason external to myself and that was so so helpful. Eating disorders and mental illnesses generally are characterised by a very narrow focus on something about yourself or related to your perception of how you’re seen or treated that a big part of getting over them is being more focused on things that have less to do with you. Veganism is just that!
The hospital could serve calorically dense vegan food...
I was in a treatmen facility where I was aloud to eat vegan food while being on a eating disorder recovery. It wasn't a big deal, people there were very respectful towards my ethical beliefs.
I was vegetarian for years before having an anorexia relapse. Still wasn’t allowed. My home hospital is pure abuse.
Hearing stuff like this makes me want to go out and get the word Vegan tattooed onto my body so that no one can take it away from me.
It definately needs to be talked about in therapy. What is the reason for the restriction. I'm convinced it depends on a person. I'm sure that for some it would make recovery more difficult. And I'm sure that some would not even attempt to recover if that would mean force feeding animal products. Therapists need to keep these aspects in mind and adjust.
I’ve been vegan for 15 months, and veganism actually helped me, I can’t enjoy eating animals, because to me it’s choosing to harm animals when I don’t have to. Being vegan actually allowed me to enjoy eating again, and I’m going out on Saturday to a vegan market, bc I’m a foodie and like going out with my family, spending time with them, and enjoying my life :3
Thank you! This is a huge issue, especially when you need a higher level of care. I wasn’t able to go to residential treatment when I needed it because the I couldn’t find a place which would take vegans (Alsana didn’t take my insurance).
Also, recovery coaches don’t claim to be therapists. They’re a helpful part of a treatment team. They’re much more available than a therapist usually is, which is very helpful during the recovery process. They also do things like meal and shopping support (for food and clothes) and provide accountability.
Lastly, congrats on recovering from your eating disorder! That’s no small feat. I’ve been trying to recover for nearly 16 years. I’m amazed that you did it on your own, too. Wow.
Veganism is how I finally recovered from my ed
(I didn’t even intend for it to work out that way but thank god it did)
To hear that facilities that treat eating disorders do not allow veganism does not surprise me. As someone who will be sober 18 years August 1st, I can tell you that rehabilitation centers, not all but many, do not like their patients to take medication such as anti suppressants antipsychotics or things that they feel can be abused such as inhalers for asthma. There is a long list of medications you cannot take at most facilities or that you have to have particular approval to take regardless of having a prescription. Unfortunately, people feel that recovery is a one-size-fits-all, that couldn't be further than the truth. I quit my drug addiction cold turkey, with no program. I do not in any way promote others doing the same. My way is not the only way and neither is excluding veganism for people recovering from disordered eating.
Food preferences tend to have a strong cultural bias. For example, being from the south, if I ever put sugar in a cornbread recipe I fear my grandmother would rise from her grave and give me a scolding. But, most folks in the USA make sweet cornbread (bless them). Equating veganism with restriction, when done by either a treatment professional or the person with an eating disorder, follows a similar cultural bias - because it is against the current norms of the western diet. I'm sure absolute believers of the "veganism always equals restriction" pov would be disgusted to serving fried mice on a stick (can be purchased in Taiwan) or whole roasted sheep's head (I heard it's good in Kazakhstan) to their patients in treatment, even though those two dishes are equivalent to more western-approved sources of animal-based food like cow (used for food and sports equipment) and pig (including the feet). Do that mean that treatment professional is, themselves, restricting their own food choices?
Thanks for your good work, Swayze! I just heard in your video that vegetarianism is allowed, but veganism is not allowed in most ED facilities. That is so strange. If they provide full fat vegan cheese, and beyond burgers, they will soon find out if the person is vegan just to avoid high calory foods, or if it is abouth the ethics. And for all vegans who are in such a facility: just say you are vegetarian, and at least you will not be forced to eat dead animals. Being forced to eat that seems so terrifying to me (I never ate that in my life).
Say you are vegetarian and allergic to eggs and dairy. That’s what I had to do with myself and my kids at events. People respect allergies more than religious or philosophical reasons. I have even gone as far as to say I’m allergic to animal products in general and most people don’t question it.
@@agees924 Thanks for the advice. If I had kids, I would do that too. Yes, that is also my experience. Allergies: everything is possible. Ethical reasons: not so easy. Today I heard from a friend that her daughter had to catch fish in school, although she did not want to. So sad how children are indoctrinated to think animal cruelty is 'normal', and how they are desensitized to empathize with animal suffering.
And actually one time I was at a dinner, and I asked the cookd "is this vegan sauce", she said "yes", 10 min later I heard her warn a guy to not eat the sauce, because it contained dairy, and she knew he was lactose intolerant. I asked her why she had just told me it was vegan. I can't remember what she replied.
I couldn’t even be vegetarian in my home hospital which is the only one in my province that does intensive programming. They even gave me VEAL. I have so much trauma from them. I fortunately got funding to go out of province to a program that respected my beliefs. And guess what? Having a program that recognized that I had NO Ed reasons for not wanting to eat meat let me
Recover and I have been there with a little struggle here and there but nothing meeting me even subclinical levels, for four years!!
@@MusikGirl23 so traumatic! I am vegetarian my whole life, I have never eaten a dead animal, and I can imagine that was very traumatic for you. I hope these ED facilities will accept vegan lifestyle, and I hope it will change in the future. And I am so happy for you that you recovered from your ED, despite this horrible treatment. Keep going strong, you are worth it.
I love the approach of picking apart what aspects of veganism might be inspired by the will to restrict and the aspects of veganism inspired by ethics.
I used to be terrified of certain staple foods, went on to become deeply entrenched in bulimic behaviors, and I went vegan while I was bulimic and I continued to be bulimic for a while after, even binging on non-vegan foods. And yes, I’m sure there was an aspect of veganism that was convenient for my disordered mind, and sure, I hoped it would stop me from binging (which it didn’t). But beyond that there were other factors, including feeling like I was making choices in line with my ethics, my worldview, and it helped me overcome my fear of specific foods which I now eat without guilt. The variety of foods I eat has grown immensely since I went vegan. I feel more freedom now, because I make a conscious choice to eat the food that I eat, instead of wanting to restrict myself from eating food that isn’t vegan.
So I’m happy to see her acknowledge that it isn’t black and white, there may be motivating factors to go vegan that come from a disordered way of thinking and a non-disordered way of thinking at the same time. And there are people who fight against those disordered thoughts while still remaining vegan for other very valid reasons.
It's also problematic to just say 'restriction bad' most people don't have straight up anorexia they have a complex eating disorder. I had anorexia than bulimia and in 'recovery' I ended up being obese. the goal should be healthy weight, healthy mind. And healthy restriction is part of that, no you can't just live on chocolate and crisps because that's what you fancy, and of course if you've been starving yourself your body's going to tell you to eat high calorie foods all the time. But that's not healthy either.
Thank you for this review. I never had a serious eating disorded whoch i couldn't deal myself with (loong before veganism), but i know a fee people who quit veganism thinking it stops them from recovering :( I wish i could translate this book into Russian
It´s totally compatible with any recovery if it´s out of pure mind and heart conviction. If eating plant-based was a cool thing a trendy thing to do, that´s another story.
In 2021, I temporarily stopped being vegan and reverted to vegetarianism on the order of my therapist in an attempt to recover from almost a decade of bulimia. Practically, this resulted in the opposite - my purges became much more frequent, because I was now feeling doubly guilty over eating - guilty over the possibility of weight gain and guilty for eating animal products. It wasn’t until returning to veganism and committing to recovery on my own terms (because no residential facility I contacted would admit me and let me stay vegan) that I was finally able to actually start the recovery process. I have a healthier outlook on food and my body than I have in many years, and it’s at least partially because of veganism, not despite it. I think a crucial difference for many ED sufferers lies in a factor that you put very succinctly in this video: animal flesh and byproducts are just “foods that I don’t think are food.” Restriction from an ED mindset is restriction of food - actual food, food that we might otherwise want to eat if we weren’t sick, which is not something that many vegans feel with animal foods. I can’t even put into words how sick I felt eating eggs again, or how many times I cried while choking down cheese and repeating the mantra of “this is something I have to do to get better.” It wasn’t, and I wish I’d had access to Jen’s book at the time, so I could have understood that. I still wrestle with the guilt over temporarily reincorporating eggs and dairy, and I’m so thankful to Jen (AND you, for making this video) for trying to make sure that providers understand there are alternative options for vegan ED sufferers. Thank you, UV, for helping me feel not alone in this complex recovery journey. ❤
I struggled with disordered eating from 16-23 until finding veganism!
I had to eat non vegan foods last month because I wanted to receive services from an intensive treatment group. I am still recovering from anorexia nervosa. Although eating meat was HORRIBLE, I do not regret doing it for my recovery. I had no choice if I wanted to receive treatment. With that being said, this experience just confirmed how much I hate eating animal flesh lol
The worst part was the pork. I tried to cut it up in tiny pieces so that eating it was less horrible. I got told I could not do that and that I had to be CONSCIOUS OF THE FOOD. What the hell
@@sweet_creature7799 Your comment speaks volumes about this issue. It covers a multitude of important points. You had to eat meat (e.d. recovery), it was horrible (veganism), you do not regret it (e.d. recovery), you tried to cut the pork up into pieces (for vegan purposes, not e.d. purposes it sounds like), you got told you couldn't do that (because it was likely seen as an e.d. behavior), and that you had to remain conscious of the food (for e.d. recovery purposes).
Every part of your comment speaks so loudly to the relevance of this issue. I have a chapter in the book which focuses on what vegan e.d. patients can endure when made to eat meat. In this chapter, I've included my thoughts about mindfulness and recovery. Vegans must, in essence, disconnect from their non-vegan food in order to attain recovery (the opposite of recovery). It sounds like (and please correct me if I'm off) you were trying to disconnect by cutting up the food but were made to be fully aware of what you were eating. You were trying to protect yourself, but you were treated as though you were engaging in eating disordered avoidance. This can be a dangerous conflation. To HAVE to be mindful of eating animal flesh can really do a number on someone. It's messed up and it needs to be approached with the utmost professional compassion and care.
Your comment is actually making me want to speak out even more about this. I'm so sorry you had to endure this, but I'm also so grateful for your recovery. Thank you for sharing.
It depends and its gray not blackandwhite topics, but for me and my BED veganism was in the darkest time the only positive thing about food (and i was vegan before my ed)...love the video xoxo
As someone who has struggled with anorexia in the past (and currently still battles lingering disordered thoughts), veganism has encouraged me on the path to recovery. I've been vegan for about 5 years now and today I see my food choices as no longer fueled by a need for control and self-destruction, but by a moral duty to reduce nonhuman suffering. Rather than feeling shame and guilt for my food choices, I now feel good when I put together an enjoyable vegan meal that excludes unnecessary suffering. Veganism was what helped me to shift my focus from the commands of my eating disorder to ethical principles and, in turn, has allowed me to develop a healthier relationship with food.
In my experience, the ED inpatient and outpatient programs I went to didn't allow veganism. One reason they gave for this was that the hospitals didn't have food to put together an adequate vegan meal plan that met all nutritional needs. Another reason was that a patient would need to eat a larger volume of food if they were put on a vegan meal plan, the nonvegan meal plan already being an absurd and often nauseating volume of food. If these dieticians and hospitals were more educated on veganism and open to the fact that many individuals can and have recovered on a vegan diet, perhaps the resources to build an adequate vegan meal plan could become more accessible.
I developed my ED long after I became vegan and it doesn’t stem from that I think I’d be even more traumatized if I were forced to eat animal products.
Thankyou so much... I'm tired of being gaslit. I restrict because i want to feel good, i restrict because i have morals, i DONT restrict because of a sense of control over my weight. Im pretty sure i know myself.
I had bulimia for 5 years. I recovered while simultaneously transitioned to a plant-based diet. 8 years ago. Still fully recovered, still vegan, absolutely thriving.
So interesting, thanks for talking about. I decided to become vegan in 2017 but unfortunately the change in diet triggered an eating disorder relapse for me. Everyone is different its nice to hear your story.
Very good video!
I would just add that other than being lean/loosing weight another disordered eating pattern I've seen associated with a plant-based diet in patients with ED is the idea of "clean eating"/perceiving any other diet as something that would "stain" the body from the inside, those can also shift during treatment and lead someone to a more flexible diet at the end
And I do not think that you would criticize that but I also know a lot of ED recovered patients that simply cannot impose any big restrictions on their food intake because every time they do so they feel like they might accidentally get back into ED patterns. I've met a few that "agree" that veganism (or even vegetarianism) would be the ethical diet, but simply cannot do it, or at least cannot do it for now
But as you said many times on the video, we as healthcare practicioners should aim to accompany all those changes and help patients find a non-disordered eating pattern that suits them individually, whether they decide to continue being plant-based/vegan or not without randomly deciding that being vegan/eating plant-based is necessarily disordered and should always be treated as a symptom.
Unrelated to the video (which is great and I totally agree with your points), I love the rainbow goblin book!! I’m glad to hear someone else does (I mentioned it a while back and then had to explain what it was and someone looked at me like I was crazy lol)
I dont know if I've missed a video on This or not, but I kinda would love to see a video where you discuss how you managed to combat the eating disorder type thoughts and recover. (Of course only if you were comfortable doing it and it wouldn't trigger you) I'd just like some insight into what worked for you in that realm because I personally find it very difficult
Same! I would love a video like this!
This resonates with me. My diet bordered on ARFID, and going vegetarian (later vegan) helped me. It improved my connection to food, and motivated me to improve my eating habits so I could sustain a vegan diet long term
I went vegan in the beginning stages of my recovery and it was a wonderful descion for me. Struggling with all the complexities of eating disorder recovery on top of guilt for harming animals would have been way too much. I recently stopped be vegan, because I was having a hard time meeting my nutritional needs. That's an isusue with my body not absorbing plant based protien properly. But that's me. Veganism is not a diet and I hope I can return to begin vegan in the future. Being vegan helped me too because I was eating sugar free diet crap that wasn't vegan and I had to let that go in favor of real food. Veganism is also what exposes me to freelee and kalel. Not that either of them have a relationship with food that I would want to emulate now but at the time I used both of them as a template to make sure I was eating enough food. Freelee stressed getting at least like 2500 calories. Making sure I was eating enough was the beginning of my body and mind healing. Which definitely helped me at the time. And kalel who isn't vegan anymore always had great meal ideas. So for me personally, being vegan helped me recover from my eating disorder.
I agree with every point you made but I’ve been to many ED treatment facilities and none of them allowed keto meal plans. Not even for medical reasons like epilepsy.
That's just as horrible. Denying an epileptic the plan they need to not have a seizure? Sounds like abuse.
I had bulimia and becoming vegan helped me recover. Can't speak for other disorders.
Ive said this before and I will say it again... I can not BELIEVE i thought Unnatural Vegan was "a bad vegan" and disliked her all because of what Freelee said... before actually watching any of UV's videos.
Another amazing vid... and my favourite Vegan UA-camr now!
I’m a LMFT, in long-term ED recovery, and vegan and have SO many opinions on this. Usually the arguments saying you “can’t” recover while vegan lack so much nuance. There may be some people who use veganism as a mask BUT they are typically people who are plant-based (aka only abstain from animal products when they’re edible) and were not vegan before the onset of the disorder. The vast majority of vegans in recovery should stay vegan.
As an LMFT, why are POC not interested in animals?
I’m so glad you covered this. I always hate seeing people talk about veganism being tied up with eating disorders
Because it predominantly is. Scan the comments to observe the correlation between people having an ED and using veganism as a recovery method. Most comments on here clarify it for you.
I think a lot of programs neglect the fact that some people are vegan/vegetarian due to cultural practices. I have a friend who has been vegetarian their entire life because that’s how they were raised. No one would say that they should be forced to eat meat in their ED recovery, and if they did I would personally think they should be educated on the matter!
I'm a former anorexic and vegan. These things are related but not in the way the medical field believes. A main reason for my anorexia was childhood abuse. I though becoming weak and remaining childlike would bring me kindness and compassion. Having suffered a lot, I didn't want to contribute to other alive and innocent creatures being abused, I empathized with them. ''Farm animals'' are also amongst the kindest and gentle animals who have lots of unconditional love in them. Also veganism made me reconnect with food and see it as a nourishment for my body and soul, since it was food coming from the Earth and not a product of abuse.
I am sure most of these facilities would allow kosher and halal dietary restrictions, and, at least with kashrut, the obsessive behaviors required around food preparation, what cannot be eaten with what other foods, what cannot be eaten at all and how long a person needs to wait before they can eat meat after dairy and vice versa smacks of disordered eating at least. I am aware of the religious reasonings, but people require two refrigerators, two sinks, and two sets of cookware and dishware.
Well, honestly, it isn't that much of a problem. And many not so wealthy but observant Jews keep everything in the same refrigerator, sink, etc, just on different shelves/wash them separately
I think in some cases vegan can be a device for people with eating disorder. For example I have known 4 people who were Vegans.
First one of them had a physical disability, she had a hard time moving around so in order to maintain easy moving she had to keep a low weight. Was it an eating disorder or a means to survive? I think means to survive.
Second one was a girl who was vegan for beliefs, what happen she started having health issue and eventually she had to start eating meat again to gain weight and start taking supplements, eating disorder I don't think so.
Third was a guy who had many issues with weight, allergies, inflammation etc, he did as a means to get control of his weight and feel better.
Fourth person was a friend who constantly had food issues, picky eater. We her friends had to cater to her restaurants, her food restrictions, she couldn't travel due to her limited diet. etc etc. The only food she would eat was "white" white rice, white pasta, white bread, white chocolate etc etc she was not under weight either, she was over weight!
So one would think how can she be over weight when she is vegan?? because everything she liked to eat was either a carb or sugar, and carbs is sugar. She now has bad diabetes and almost lost a leg. Is this an eating disorder I would say yes! But this is not a vegan who wanted veggies, this was a vegan who would only eat sugar.
I "recovered" on a non vegan diet, but I was stressed. Food was just another thing in this system that is just pushed and marketed so weirdly and all the ads are so confusing. I fell back a lot. I constantly had a foggy mind.🌫
My family was scared for me going vegan I think, it was 2-3 years after I had my worst time, but they didn't saw I had a huge motivation and journey ahead of me to fight my ED!
I loved animals, I could not stand what was happening to them!🐄❤
9 years later I feel the strongest I have ever been and I feel like I have evolved and my ED is just a weak fart in my head, I hardly remember how it was. I have no clue how much calories, carbs or fat I consume. I can just enjoy a burger, cookies, matcha lattes, Homemade Cheesy Lentil Lasagna, soooo goood
I feel like I do have purpose now and always work on myself to align my beliefs with what I do even when buying clothes, to not buy fast fashion etc. I 100% agree that meat eating isn't unhealthy per-se, but the food system is fucked, big time.
Big plus having had a ED: I also learned that doing too much isn't good either, I learned from my tendencies to overthink and overwork myself and I still learn/listen to my brain to give myself a break ❤ I like to write down my thoughts and ground myself in that we humans sometimes need to distance us from our thoughts sometimes, and talk to supportive humans (aka my partner), to realize they are not based on reality.
I often forget, that being vegan actually helped me, when i had bad moments in my life. I should thank it more.
Ive never thought about this before. I hope more facilities woll change
When I went to an inpatient facility in 2019 they would only let me be vegetarian. I refused to eat eggs but if it was in some of the baked goods or pancakes I ate those. I also had yogurt almost daily but never chose the food I would have to eat with butter or cream cheese. Looking back I was fortunate to have a good amount of vegan options butttt for my eating disorder it wasn't helpful at all because it made me fear non vegan foods even more. As I recovered (as most recovered Anorexics im sure can relate), I suffered from digestive issues, bloating, and most of my weight gain went to my stomach before evenly distributing. I blamed all of this on the fact that I was eating dairy and made it my mission to eat 'ultra clean' when I was released. However I will say years later I find myself still having food fears and restrictions (though I am in a much better place mentally and physically), I have been experimenting with adding in fish and eggs to challenge any disordered beliefs I have regarding non vegan food. Meat grosses me out and I never liked dairy anyway so i don't want to add those in but fish and eggs aren't as bad. I first tried these foods 2 months ago and since then have only had them like 3 or 4 times as I genuinely haven't been craving them but allowing myself to have that as an option if i ever do crave it has eased my anxiety tremendously as given me a bit more food freedom
also i wanted to note that i orginally found veganism through Freelee and went HCLF soooo while i do believe in the ethics behind it, I 100% went vegan at least partially for 'health' reasons
Everybody’s different; I see a lot of people who say veganism helped them with ED. I had a serious ED for 15 years, to this day I have health complications from it but it’s been in remission for two years and Im weight restored. Recovering as a vegan would have been impossible for me, because my behaviors with food were so overly analytical. Many of my cohorts from treatment are in the same boat. I think veganism might be friendly for disordered eating but a full blown eating disorder is a very slippery slope
I was already in full blown ED mode (orthorexia + anorexia) when I moved into veganism. It was merely a tool for me to restrict calories and major food groups, coz "saturated fat and red meat are going to kill us all and everybody who consumes those is going to end up fat and with s heart attack before 40!!" 🤦🏻♀️
I'm recovered now and bringing animal products back on board were a big part of that recovery, so I understand where the appeal of no-vegan-recovery comes from. It's to fix people like me.
I think many people, including various vegan internet personalities like Raw Kristina for instance, do in fact cling to veganism to enable their ED or body dysmorphia and whatnot. After all, it does sound like a perfect excuse. Who's gonna stop you from "saving the planet" at a time like this, right?
This isnt a hate comment against vegans. It's more about disclosing that pretentious vegans, who abuse the philosophy for their own ED, do exist and I'd personally even go as far as to say that most vegans in ED recovery actually fall under that category. Not all of course, but most 🤔
Would be interesting to study this, I agree with what you said except the last part, I think most vegans in ED recovery do it for moral reasons. But still, even if not, it would be so harmful to force someone to eat animal products when they do not see it as food. On a personal note, I have struggled with an ED myself and I was only able to be fully vegan once I worked on it enough in therapy cause it was still very hard to understand for me whether I was refusing food bc of morals or calories. Right now I am in a very good place (I think I have a better relationship with food and my body and hunger cues than most people) and I consider myself vegan but whenever being vegan "puts at risk" my relationship with food I still challenge myself to make an exception. Just to make sure I can get over my fear of that food and I am truly choosing to not eat it bc I simply do not see it as food. Mind you this happened like twice in 3 years but still. And this happens only when I am eating everyday with non vegans.
@@fededossi4507 Interesting view. I understand what you mean with "not recognising animal products as food" but I'd personally classify this as an ED as well. I have friends who've been vegans for quite some years now and they often tell me that when they see my plate with an animal product on it, their minds go "wow. This could just as well be a piece of cardboard or concrete. Either way, it doesnt look like food to me"
I feel like that inability to recognize these products as food is a mental disorder in itself just like anorexic people who cannot conceptualize that what they see in the mirror is not a fat but an emaciated person and those things should be worked out in recovery too. Nobody should force you to eat them, I agree, but you should be capable to recognize things for what they are and animal producst, regardless of one's dietary orientation, are a source of nutrients and sustainance, thus they can be classified as food. Brainwahsing yourself into believing that certain nutrient sources arent real foods eventhough they can and have been consumed by generation prior to us is part of toxic vegan tribalism, which Unnatural Vegan herself has called out against multiple times herself. Healthy veganism is about having the option to choose the non animal food and not about convincing yourself that the animal food option isnt a real food anyways. Youre actively taking away your own options that way and I dont think that that's healthy.
I hope I didnt offend you, that's not my goal. I just wanted to share my piece of mind.
I'm happy to hear that you actively test yourself to see whether or not you're avoiding foods due to their moral impact or due to ED residues. I hope your relationship to food stays as healthy as it is.
Thank you very much for this video (and for all others for that matter)
good morning swayze. they finally put me on Ritalin so I think I'll be leaving you more normal comments now. I'm loving this new background! is this the same location you'd always film in? or is this another part of your home? it's so gorgeous. and I love the shirt too!! have a lovely day
What comments were you leaving before?)
@russianvegangirl just comments in all caps telling her she slays etc calling her a queen all that adhd stuff
@@ham.burger. haha
Would be interested in seeing you talk about Betterhelp! Considering how many vegan UA-camrs promote it
I think there is a lot more nuance to this topic. Veganism is not an eating disorder. And: veganism can be tied to an eating disorder and can absolutely be an unconscious way to feed the "good girl" narrative ("If I ate an animal product, I would be the worst person on the planet and not deserve love anymore" - yes, that was me a few years ago), it can be a way to justify restriction (we must pay extra attention here if the vegan diet is a superbly restrictive one like high carb low fat etc.), and it can be a way to stay "safe" in recovery. This obviously doesn't mean that the person has no moral reasons to be vegan, but as long as dysfunction is a part of their way of being vegan, there is actually a problem there.
I would like to share that personally, when I recovered from a lifetime of eating disorders, I did discover that I had both very real and authentic reasons to be vegan and also really f'ed up ones. I decided to face the dysfunction one day by ordering an omelette and I had a complete meltdown in the restaurant, a legit panic attack, because I felt SO horrible and guilty. And so for me it was clear that for the sake of my mental health, it would make sense to let go of veganism for a little while.
Once I felt really stable in my recovery and I had addressed all of the underlying sneaky attachments to veganism, I was able to return to it from a purely moral conviction that was no longer tied to my sense of self worth. I did not NEED to be vegan anymore, I could just CHOOSE it now.
I think this will have to be a case by case evaluation. Eating disorders are only about food on the surface level anyway, they are coping mechanisms after all. But in some cases, it can 100% be beneficial to let go of veganism for the sake of recovery, knowing that it is always possible to return to it
In my case I did wait to be a few years to be recovered to start being vegan cause I knew it could spiral me and I didnt want to lose more years to an ed. I thought that waiting would be more beneficial to animals than me dying while vegan lmaoo (it was my case, I respect those who could do both things!!!)
I think this is a beautiful example of putting one's recovery first and seeing the bigger picture.
Noooooo i used to love Tabitha Farrar when I was recovering......
Loved a charlatan
What's the digital gray square above the orchid leaf? Your fingers disappeared when you held them up there.
I do like Tabitha and have found her helpful in my recovery but this is a big no-no. I became vegan after I had started to struggle with my ED. At first, it was due to 'health' reasons, which I think was more my ED. But then I found out about all the ethical stuff. and it just clicked. Veganism and restrictive ED are two different things for me. I do not see nonvegan foods are foods anymore. It's not about calories or macros in those 'foods' (non-vegan products), because they are none of that for me. They are pain and suffering and I do not want to contribute to that if I don't have to.
Thanks for this video and the book recommendation. :)
Unfortunately i think, many professional have trouble seeing a distinction between veganism and certain super restrictive vegan diets. Idk that's just a guess. I actually do think it would be super bad for recovery to try to follow something super restrictive like keto or a version of veganism that is just as restrictive as keto.
Yes exactly. That's why it's so important that professionals understand that veganism is not merely a "diet." The idea would be to eat plentifully as a vegan.
When I was in treatment and had to order food, I was told to just pick the meat off the sandwich. I refused to sit at the table.
I had orthorexia and no longer fear food and that mindset began around the same time I became vegan
I recovered from my severe anorexia as a vegan 8 and a half years ago. I found veganism through Freelee (controversial perhaps). I was 13/14 at the time and I had already gone vegetarian at the age of 8 but until Freelee and other UA-camrs like her, I had no idea of the scale of animal suffering. The hospital I was staying at would not allow me to go vegan so I stayed veggie until I was discharged. However, they did try and secretly feed me meat multiple times. One time, they shredded pork through my pasta thinking i wouldn’t notice. Another time, they gave me a beef burger and this was in 2014 in the Scottish Highlands??? Mock meats, or ‘convincing’ mock meats were not a thing.
Anyways, when I got out I went vegan. Although I don’t agree with Freelees diet advice, her encouragement to eat such large portions was one of the main things that helped me in recovery. I went from weighing everything and eating 1/4 of a normal portion, to polishing off 2kg of rice and 1kg of lentils just between lunch and dinner. I didn’t restrict myself with raw til 4 and it’s rules on fat etc, I just took her portion advice😅 It’s been about 7 years since I ate like this and I honestly have no idea how I made room for it.
@21:10 ok yes, but I think that's like "self care" vs "selfishness". One is positive while the other is negative. If you just ate whatever with no refrain or care, I think that would be gluttony or on a similar thread swinging to the opposite extreme. Discipline and care for one's self and others is not a disorder, it's a life goal towards being a better person.
*get to the tofu of the book
Great video it really hit home. The bracelet thing made me so mad
Me too, me too... :(
Uh... Greta Thunberg recovered with vegan food. She would only eat vegan food, and if I recall correctly, a Thai vegan meal made her genuinely happy within her climate anxiety which caused her eating disorder.
Thanks so much for making this video. While I agree with some of Tabitha Farrar's positions on ED Recovery, I strongly disagree with her black/white position on veganism. I also found it interesting that she is someone who seems to absolutely adore, and has made her life about horses (owns or operates??/lives on a farm/horse stable I believe), she makes absolutely no connection to the cruelty that animals (including horses) endure. Would she eat horse meat I wonder... maybe she would, I don't know 🤷♀
I'll never forget my first time in ED inpatient treatment, I met a 40-something year old woman who had been a vegan since the 80s, clearly for ethical reasons. The first breakfast tray came, and she had to eat an egg for the first time in about 25 years. I will never forget the tears streaming down her face, and I knew it wasn't anything to do with her eating disorder.
Also want to point out that people experiencing eating disorders often tend to be very sensitive - which is why I believe I have met so many animal-lovers who are also bravely trying to recover. Sensitivity is a superpower and I believe it's fully possible to decipher the eating disorder voice vs. the voice that tells you a compassionate way of being is important.
For any vegans out there also trying to recover from an ED, there are providers out there who are vegan (RDs too) and others who will support you in it. You just need to look a little harder sometimes ❤❤❤❤.
Her crying over eating an egg was 100% because of her eating disorder.
Alsana was a great treatment center especially the understanding on veganism being for ethical purposes not just a “diet” eating variety of vegan foods not just “ vegetables and fruit” but plant based burgers pastry cooked meals with enough calories variety of carbs fats and protein
Great video!!!
I would LOVE to hear your take on Pride!
So just to put it out there, I have been suffering on and off over the years from anorexia and binge eating disorder- and I’m currently in my “eating disorder phase”. When I started a dietary vegan diet, all it did was fuel my eating disorder because I used it as a way to hide behind my disorder (like you mentioned in this video). Unfortunately it was not for me and so I do see why so many recovery programs don’t allow patients to stay vegan. Because it can be really hard to distinguish between ethical veganism and restrictive veganism and sometimes both can be true- which makes it more complicated. Not disagreeing with your video but wanted to put it out there that probably most often than not if you are recovering from ED you probably should give up veganism and see what the results are.
19:36 How to fix a dent in the wall 101:
- Overlay a gray rectangle over it 😁
I was forced to eat meat during my home province’s treatment. It killed me every time. They then wouldn’t even let me choose the vegetarian options like half the time. Did I mention it is the intensive program
In the province? Therefore no choice? Especially when you are basically getting formed in? And of course the way they ‘taught’ me how to eat meant I left not knowing I would eat. Well. I was back the next summer sicker than ever, needing ivs and tubes, and have so much trauma from things. I actually preferred being on the tube because it meant less meat. The province then funded for me to go out of province to a centre that allowed me not to eat meat, and guess what, I’m 4 years recovered from anorexia nervosa that was days away from killing me. I had given up.
I actually recovered from a giant relapse (anorexia nervosa). I thought I would lose more weight on veganism/raw but oh well... let's say that I learned how to eat again.
I think veganism is potentially a positive force for some people. I personally find it liberating to be able to evaluate food as a moral choice, with an effect on others, instead of only in terms of effect on me (weight or health or macros).
Great exploration of a nuanced topic
So is there comparative data of people who have actually recovered from eating disorders while remaining vegan as opposed to those who have had all food restrictions removed in their recovery (what the title of your video alludes to)? There's no data on ed recovery in this video. Does removing all restrictions lead to better recovery rates? Anorexia can be fatal, if I can remind you.
In my case , former bulimic veganism and Jesus (I know you are an atheist and I'm fine with that) was what actually help me recover and just like you, I was able to heal without therapy. What I don't get is how you can force someone to eat things they don't consider food to recover, isn't that worst? You're increasing the stress over food which is already not manageable for that poor person...
As a therapist on the road to licensure, those who are worth a damn know that we aren't to give advice. We aren't registered dieticians or experts on how vegans should eat. Hell, a large number of us can't even clinically diagnose patients. Therefore, it's completely unethical to suggest a client stop their vegan diets when actively recovering from an ED, and a client who feels pressured or forced to give up their vegan principles is completely within their rights to file a formal complaint against that therapist and ask for a new caregiver. What we can and should do is assist a client in reinforcing the meaning behind their vegan principles and support them even if their veganism isn't ethics based. We can also challenge any contradictions we hear in sessions with client permission. If you feel you are being mistreated in your counseling relationship, speak up. None of us can do and get better without open and honest communication.
I will say it still depends on the person. I was already vegan for yeeaars before I got my eating disorder and my eating disorder was bulimia. Like my problem was actually binging on heaps of (vegan) food so how does it make sense that I would give up veganism. I never experienced it as limiting. I simply don't see animals as food.
I am absolutely sure there have been people who turned vegan the second they needed to recover to hide behind it to be able to keep some sort of restriction. Look at individuals and individual feelings and situations!
Yeah, this is pretty annoying. I'm trying to recover from whatever category of ED laxative abuse falls under and I think I may actually need to go someplace as I'm now pooping black yet still feel tempted to use more. Only problem is you aren't allowed to be follow a vegan diet in the inpatient centers where I live. You can be vegetarian but you have to have eggs and dairy.
I couldn’t even be vegetarian in my home hospital which is the ONLY intensive program in my province. Therefore-no choice. I was already nearly being formed into the hospital (made involuntary) due to how sick I had become. The trauma of the hospital ‘food’ is still present 6 years on, and something I am still working through. I would NEVER go back to that home hospital. If I was formed in? I would refuse meat, period. Tube me, IV me, whatever, discharge me early, keep me longer, but I’m not doing it.
Therapist here I didn't know some clinics don't offer vegans vegan food in ED recovery clinics. That's mean. Yes, it's sometimes used to camouflage their eating disorder, but so are many other things like food allergies and you name it. Does that mean we shouldn't give lactose intolerants lactose free food? Like what?
Awesome video, thank you.
I mean, they wouldn’t get away with feeding someone who has a religious based diet what they cannot have.
This hurts my heart and the abuse of vulnerable individuals is disgusting.
I said it was my personally held spiritual beliefs and that ‘wasn’t good enough’. I still regret not going to patient advocacy…
Veganism actually helped me get over my eating disorder!
I recovered from anorexia on a vegan diet (10 years vegan now). Being forcefed meat as a child (which I ALWAYS found repulsive) likely spurred my control issues around food in the first place. If an eating disorder recovery center re-enacted that same trauma on me again, I probably never would have recovered.
Yes! Even as a BABY my parents could only get me to eat meat when it was covered in apricots or sweet potatoes or maybe carrots. Used to hate Sunday night dinners because it would typically be a steak (Ew) of some sort and I HATED plain meat. If in pasta or rice and veggies and sauce, I could manage a little bit. But not plain.
it especially doesnt make sense considering people with allergies or celiacs can have eating disorders. are they never going to recover bc they cant have peanut butter or wheat bread?