When Vegan Isn't Woke Enough (Re: Is It Wrong To Be Vegan?)
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- Maybe using others as an excuse not to go vegan isn't very woke. And please shut up about quinoa.
0:00 - Intro
2:24 - Don't be fruitarian
4:04 - Hey guys, did you hear about cars?
6:31 - Vegan is too much, I guess?
8:36 - Farkin white people
13:41 - Quinoa because of course
15:01 - Using Indigenous cultures as a shield SO PROGRESSIVE!
18:44 - Everyone can't go vegan so nobody should?
19:39 - It's all about balance or something
23:51 - Final thoughts
Is It Wrong To Be Vegan?
• Is It Wrong To Be Vegan?
Why the vegan diet is not always green
www.bbc.com/future/article/20...
No, Lettuce Is Not Worse For The Environment Than Bacon
archive.thinkprogress.org/no-...
A Guide to Understanding and Avoiding Cultural Appropriation
www.thoughtco.com/cultural-ap...
Cultural appropriation: everything is culture and it’s all appropriated
www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article...
Vegetarianism: The Story So Far
theveganoption.org/2016/01/22/...
Quinoa
marcfbellemare.com/wordpress/...
ideas.repec.org/p/tow/wpaper/...
/ the-biggest-threat-to-...
I stopped eating animals because of human rights
www.opendemocracy.net/en/tran...
Nomads
newint.org/features/1995/04/0...
Definition of veganism
www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan...
Cars, planes, trains: where do CO2 emissions from transport come from?
ourworldindata.org/co2-emissi...
US GHG Emissions
www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sour...
Climate change
www.who.int/heli/risks/climat...
www.who.int/news-room/fact-sh...
Extremists are keeping dogs on chains
www.nathanwinograd.com/extrem...
Support an Effective Animal Charity
animalcharityevaluators.org/
Support the Channel
Patreon: / unnaturalvegan
Amazon Store Page: www.amazon.com/shop/unnatural...
Shirts: teespring.com/stores/unnatura...
Socials (that I rarely use)
Twitter: / unnaturalvegan
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I'm watching this video on my weekly transatlantic flight to pick up my pineapples and quinoa
😂 Lololol can you grab me some avocados and almonds when you’re out?
hahaha.... lol
The quinoa argument pisses me off so much. Not only does it ignore the fact that it is not an item exclusive to vegans, but quinoa is now commonly grown outside of latin america so we're not all consuming stolen grains lol.
@@Wooplot ive still yet to eat quinoa since becoming vegan a few years ago
LMAO
“The vegan in my group took a lot of airplane flights therefore veganism isn’t better for the environment.” Ummmmmmmmmmm 🤔
Well, I am an Indian and for a matter of fact I am a Jain too. I know my permission don't / shouldn't matter but hey, you have all my permission to experiment the hell out of Indian food. And if something comes out yummy.. Do lets us know. 😊
Also, many vegan chefs of various cultures depend on white dolls buying their cookbooks, right? Thank you for your comment!
Thanks! I will refer to you if anyone asks. You have my permission if you ever want to cook Swedish food. 😄
I really admire the Jains! I became a vegan because of them! I used to wear a Swastika because that’s the Jain holy symbol, but a White guy wearing that gets a lot of grief!😂
@@monicaolsson7608 Love the Scandinavians too!🙋♂️
Excellent comment. ahahaha
i can't take any conversation seriously when both parties are wearing overalls and sitting cross-legged by candlelight
In a tent inside, being forcefully quirky. I cannot ;)
Right? The LARPing is laughable.
I don't know how you consistently pull every thought out of my head but... thank you.
Aww geez! Love your channel.
It would be nice if you gals did a collab. Would love to see my two favorite UA-camrs do something together.
I now believe that humans are carnivores
@@pjryon2276 good for you!! You're awesome!
@@charlieaustin1942 thankyou
I find it so frustrating, and... disheartening, honestly, that all discussions about veganism with non-vegans seem to have this unspoken rule that animal ethics should either be briefly mentioned or just ignored entirely. Just bringing it up at all is considered a personal attack because it's such a heinous practice, but as a result it goes unspoken and vegans are expected to pivot around one of their strongest points for the sake of the non-vegans personal comfort. As a result we end up having discussions about environmentalism and personal health which, while still strong, mostly focus on the self-interest of the non-vegan and ignore this massive pile of suffering we're inflicting on those who can feel it. The tremendous pressure I feel to ignore this, and the cruel reality which is this being the most effective way to get people to sometimes give a shit is... exhausting.
this.
So true! I faced the same problem with most of my family members 🙄
To be fair, the ethical arguments are not effective against most non vegans. Most people do not and will never consider an animal's life as equal to their own. If that is ever going to change, it will be retroactively, after affordable lab grown meat has rendered animal based meat obsolete for generations.
@@SonofKalas22 I'm not vegan (nor do I necessarily think others should be) because I see an animals life as being equal to my own, I'm vegan because I don't see an animals life as being equal to my moderate convenience and pleasure. Too often these debates are framed like this, as Life vs. Life, which is a false choice--for many, many people in the developed world it's slaughter vs inconvenience, but that's a much more difficult discussion for the non-vegan to have so it's often re-framed as something more palatable to them.
Nitpicks aside, I agree with your broader point though--people will come around to meat reduction only when it's cheaper, more convenient, and tastes the exact same. My angst in the original post was precisely due to this agreement, and the dispirited way such a realization has made me feel.
@@JetsDuck I'm not saying it's a life vs life situation, I'm saying that's how most people will see it hence it is an ineffective argument regardless of it's accuracy. I think that for most, the life vs convenience argument is equally ineffective. People don't value livestock except as food. That's the reality. I never said this was a position I hold.
It's completely misleading that they named the video "is veganism wrong" when really they are talking about environmentalism and the effects of this diet on the environment and randomly cultural appropriation.... I am so glad you did a reaction video to this, thank you!
pretending to be concerned about cultural appropriation, but look at that set! It's "Urban Outfitters Does A Cultural Appropriation" to the max over there!! 🤦🏻♀️ the floor pillows, rugs, tapestries, lighting .... com'on now
I was thinking that too...
Was thinking the same thing!!
Sorry about my comments. I have a mental illness
I apologize, I don't know what I'm saying. I have bi polar.Her book was so bad. Her videos are the best.
Swayze has been humanely slaughtering it lately... :) Rly good responses to both WIL and this, I have a feeling you are being just a bit more tough on these kinds of creators than in the past, I love it!
Haha she really has
Yeah... I mean... I was subscribed to WIL and I saw his response to UV about the ancient Egyptians. 'This should be good' I thought... I was right but for the wrong reasons. I started reading his 'defense' (or something) and I was like "wait, that's bs". Then I watched her video entirely and realized, the vegan lady has a point.
I didn't agree with his video about the enviroment, but I didn't realize, how manipulative and dishonest it was until I saw UV's response video. I really liked her well thought rational arguments and watched some more videos from her.
Soo.... Basically I am going vegan because WIL tried to convince me not to go vegan lol
@@juliak5374 This is amazing
@@juliak5374 WIL never tried to convince anyone not to go vegan, I mean say what you want about the video and it's content but saying it's intention was to make people anti vegan or explain why veganism is bad is just misleading
Sorry about my comments. I have a mental illness
So I'm only allowed to eat Swedish food then? As a vegan, that really sucks! 😆 No pasta, sushi, dhal, tacos or stirfry?! No bananas either? Only potatoes. Wait, potatoes was not grown in Sweden originally. They were imported. Oats it is then. Oats and carrots.
I know, it’s ridiculous, isn’t it?!
At least there is oatly ;D....I feel like a day would work... Breakfast is easy I think maybe if potato is okay and vegan kötbullar that could be lunch ....or are kötbullar also too stolen ..... So dinners left.....I guess chocolate cake counts?....
And almost no spices! No tasty food for us...
Same here from Germany.... potatoes (or maybe not) and Sauerkraut
Actually, not even carots as they originated from Afghanistan and were imported not thaaaat long ago to Europe (actually around the 11th Century to Spain... so I don't really know when they reached Sweeden, haha !). ^^'
You're stuck with grass, I guess. ^^
Basically all the dishes in the world are inherently appropriated from some other culture lol
No amount of finger-wagging about muh cultural appropriation will get me to stop eating falafel and sushi.
True. Cultures have been sharing aspect I'd their culture forever.
Well the ; the Italians want their pizza and spaghetti back oh wait China wants their pasta noodles back lol
Actually I change my mind. Humans are carnivores
I can't decide! I'm so sorry! I forgot to take my meds. My belief is that humans are carnivores
In France, an indépendant organisation called Carbone 4 estimated that eating vegetarian (not even vegan) is better than eating local, zero waste, not taking plane and recycling combined (2 ton co2 vs. 1.7 ton Co2) and is the single Best individual action one can make. I'm sure it's similar in other western countries
après même en étant vegan c'est ultra difficile d'avoir un bilans carbone correspondant aux accords de Paris, je suis à 2.5t par ans mais l'état correspond à 1.1t de mes émission donc c'est difficile de descendre plus bas (even being vegan , it's near impossible to go below 2t of CO2e)
@@Inconito___ Yes but going from the french average 11 ton CO2 to 2.5 or 3 is super great. You should be proud of yourself :) there is only so much we can do, at some point the state have to take initiative too it's not only on us citizen to take the burden of bending the climate change curve
I read something similar in the news in Sweden. I was actually very surprised.
@@Inconito___ j'habite en France depuis un peu mois! Out of curiosity, what vegan foods do you tend to eat here? Je viens d'Anglaterre et je ne peux pas trouver beaucoup de norriture comme par example soja que est abordable. So I eat more whole foods / beans! Hope that makes sense :')
@@indie360 Hi, in which city do you live ? You can find tofu in almost every store from 4 to 12euros. Specialised vegan shop can sell you big bag of tvp for
"my cultural Southern heritage food" made me chuckle ngl
I’m loving this ‘but nomads’ as the new ‘what if you were on a desert island?’ take. I can’t believe I bought a beyond burger when I could’ve cycled to Iran for a cow
This may be controversial but sometimes I get really sick of all this cultural appropriation nonsense.
I was thinking to myself the other day that when I have kids I want them to learn about other cultures and I was thinking once a week we could choose a country and find a dish to make. I also wanted us to learn about the culture too and I think it would be fun to get my kids engaged and help me pick food at the grocery store and help make supper.
I was also thinking of having some subscription services for different snack boxes around the world so my kids can enjoy different kinds of foods.
I have a best friend that's Chinese and I got to experience a lot of her culture. She would go to china a lot when she was younger and bring back souvenirs. I also went to her house a lot and they always made good food. This is something that's really important to me and I want my kids to be able to enjoy other cultures and I feel like it will help eliminate any prejudice and help them be more educated and aware about the world.
When we find a dish we really like I can remake it and maybe tweak it and maybe make some fusion dishes.
I honestly don't know how this can be seen as a bad thing. Even if I didn't do all the research on the culture, making fusion dishes is fun and maybe there are some ingredients you don't have or don't like so mixing something more familiar with a dish is nice. It's really hard not to think "fuck off!" to all the people that have criticisms about this but I really feel like if we start taking cultural appropriation more seriously, it will only make more of a divide. Can I really not enjoy anything unless it's from my own culture? The thought of that makes me so sad...
That's amazing! And not really controversial among sane people. It's only controversial to vocal "I live in a twitter bubble" types.
I apologize, I don't know what I'm saying. I have bi polar.Her book was so bad. Her videos are the best.
That video is very confusing. So illogical, missing out on so much and weird Focus on certain topics that either aren’t explained properly or are just not thought through.
Thanks for responding, I really liked this one a lot!
Im a Mexican trans-woman and i notice many people nowadays confuse braiding hair or preparing traditional dishes from other countries which is cultural exchange as cultural appropriation
Yea it’s really gotten out of control over the last 5 years.
Indeed.
Imagine thinking you own a particular food dish because your ancestors cooked it sometimes....
HUMANS ARE FRUGIVORES
COOKED FOOD IS TOXIC
VIRUSES DO NOT EXIST
THERE IS NO PANDEMIC
VACCINES ARE TOXIC
KNOWLEDGE AND PROPER EDUCATION HELP A LOT
@@cookingisevil5829 I’m quickly learning that people who say “educate yourself” or “education will help” on the internet are the least educated people.
What is that girl talking about. I'm peruvian, I grew up eating quinoa, everybody is able to afford quinoa.
Thanks, a lot of people in the comments are coming up with a lot of bullshit about this, and it is very pleasing reading a direct account that agrees with the data and that proves them wrong.
It's basically because far-left woke types have circled around to full on racism. UV alluded to it in the video, but basically these people seem to think that no non-white people can have any responsibility, take care of themselves, or do anything really, and it's all up to (and the fault of) white people.
@MdoubleHB ??? Okay...
@@JA-qi7zt Sorry about my comments. I have a mental illness
@Swayze's teacher that book had no scientific back up. It was crap.
Thank you for responding to this video. The original video is an illogical answerless mess. I really worry that young teens are going to watch their video and feel like becoming vegan is bad, wrong or causing harm to others. Pure rubbish. Thank you for putting out all the facts, and speaking the truth! 👩🏫🐱🐶🐷
My first introduction to veganism was a community of black (American, Midwestern) vegans. It's so weird to hear the "white people though" statement. 🤷
"Be chill about your veganism" woooooooooow. that's... embarrassing for them. 🤦
Afaik, percentage wise, more people of color are vegan in the US than people that are white. None of these anti vegan arguments make sense, it's a dishonest tactic of throwing emotionally charged sh*t at the wall and seeing what sticks. 'Hmm let's try some woke bullshit, tell them quinoa seeds are squeezed from dead Indian babies or something.' the wokies eat it up ofc, simply because they want to, not because it has any merit as an argument.
I think it's wrong that they wear matching overalls, but that's just me.
As an Indian i don't care who tries cultural Indian foods or not. The problem is west always called eastern people week,underdeveloped because we eat more vegetables. But suddenly now veganism is a thing and they are telling us how to do it. I talk to so many Americans on social media(gaming purpose) who tells me soya chunks ate bad i should eat soya beans, how much legums i should eat a day and etc. Its frustrating to hear that now they wanna tell everyone how to eat more vegetables based balanced diet,when we are doing it for thousands of years and you just started.
Good point! I’m an American with family in Greece, and they’ve always eaten aheavy vegetable and legume based diet for... idk, a few thousand years
People online are such know it alls lolol
@. Koyeli. Mukherjee. Don't just group the entire west together!The West and the East are not singular collective bodies that all believe and practice the same things they are meerly a collection of indavidgials with different beliefs lifestyles and actions some bigots some not!Don't group me in with westerners who are bigots and/or claim I'm somehow responsible for their beliefs and actions or that some of their bigotry somehow falls on me!!!!!
First, most people in the West also ate a predominately plant-based diet until industrialisation in the 19th century, and meat and dairy are still a big part of Indian cuisine. India does have amazing vegetarian food, but it's not quite accurate to say 'we've been doing it for a thousand years and you just started'.
Second, they are probably talking to you as an individual, not a representative of the entire Indian nation. Just because your country is known for something, doesn't mean you individually are automatically knowledgeable or 'right' about that thing. Equally, just because one random vegan on the internet expressed an opinion about soya to you, doesn't mean Westerners collectively are telling Indians how to eat (if anything, Indian food is celebrated within veganism a lot more than it's criticised)
I'm so sorry! I forgot to take my meds. My belief is that humans are carnivores
I eat alot of watermelon. I also grow it myself 9 months out of the year.
you have watermelonbabys? lol
Sorry about my comments. I have a mental illness
You'll be so much more annoyed with them after watching there video on zero waste.
Edit: Why are all the replies so wierd
*their
Sorry about my comments. I have a mental illness
@@davidbrownstein3259 ok
I apologize, I don't know what I'm saying. I have bi polar.Her book was so bad. Her videos are the best.
In Brasil there's a company that used to make a traditional kind of cheese here and they transitioned to make tofu the same way
They are called Uai Tofu
@@K.Kitbex I believe it is. The cool thing about Uai Tofu is that it was a dairy farm for a few generations and the current owner decided to change. I think that's really brave
@@K.Kitbex oh! I just remembered Fugini. They are a company that makes canned sauces and stuff like canned corn and peas. They are slowly tuning everything vegan. Started with mayo and white sauce, already substituted their Bolognese with tvp. I love it. They have cheap products and have a great distribution. In a country so big with so little and expensive vegan options, that's great!
Sorry about my comments. I have a mental illness
I apologize, I don't know what I'm saying. I have bi polar.Her book was so bad. Her videos are the best.
I thought the thumbnail was a still from portlandia
Their video was sad.. they didn’t even try.. it’s like they went into just wanting to show that vegans aren’t perfect.. as if all vegans think they’re perfect. Are we honestly still playing that old cliche still?
There's a lovely Sri Lankan woman who runs my local "Little India" grocery store and she loved giving me and my roommate cooking tips and tells us to make her favorite dishes and tell her how they turn out! It's one anecdote, but she has expressed that she appreciates young generations exploring the food of her culture; and I of course love exploring new cuisine I never grew up with in the first place. I also love that white people/ others not necessarily belonging to other cultures are trying to define literal cooking as appropriation...
When I tried to explain cultural appropriation to my Rwandan boyfriend (when we saw photos of white people getting married in traditional Rwandan clothes) he said he thinks it's nice and literally didnt understand why he should be offended.
That’s actually not what most bipoc in the US would define as cultural appropriation. As a POC I have no problem and many people I know have no problem with white people or others wearing our traditional clothes, eating our food, learning our language/culture. The problem is when those people try and pass off our culture as their original idea or represent something as our culture in a way that doesn’t actually align with it. For example, selling Indian saris at forever 21 and calling them scarf dresses or posting a recipe called “Easy Indian curry” when curry is not a type of Indian food and none of the ingredients resemble any traditional Indian dish.
@@mayakashyap7141 this is the best explanation of cultural appropriation I’ve ever heard.
@@mayakashyap7141 I've heard the accusation that people 'present [our] culture as their original idea' a lot, but I have I've almost never actually seen anyone do it. If a person were to buy a sari (or 'scarf dress',) at Forever21, they almost certainly know the style is originally from India and are very unlikely to claim it was invented by a Westerner or worn by medieval Europeans.
Equally curry is a great example of a dish that it's actually very difficult to pin down to a specific cultural group. Most modern curry recipes were developed in the West (particularly the UK) decades or even centuries ago, originally by South Asian immigrants who ran restaurants and adapted their food to local tastes. In the period since, they underwent a lot of cultural morphing to arrive at their present form.
Based on your definition, both calling curry Indian and not calling curry Indian could be considered cultural appropriation.
My problem with cultural appropriation as a concept is that it is so amorphous it's impossible to actually apply. There is no authority on which group cultural practices 'belong to' nor who is a member of that group nor any authority on what is and is not offensive or respectful. The result is just giving people on the internet (many of whom don't even identify with the culture in question) a reason to be morally offended at something no matter how benign it may be.
Personally, the line I draw is with disrespecting things with particular spiritual or cultural significance flippantly e.g. wearing Native American headdresses for Halloween, beyond that 'cultural appropriation' is a normal human practice that all groups have done for as long as we've had culture.
Sorry about my comments. I have a mental illness
I apologize, I don't know what I'm saying. I have bi polar.Her book was so bad. Her videos are the best.
Yay, I was hoping for a video on this!
To be honest, I choose my 97% vegan life not worrying what others want to say about me. Haha i know I am minimizing my harm, and living how my body feels best.
same!
Veganism at the very least means not giving your money to torture factories when you're not being forced to. If you're that close why not go another 3% when there are vegan alternatives to just about every food you might have a weakness for?
@@Lucas43434 you were so close to being respectful, why not go that last 3% and actually be respectful?
@@therabbithat Didn't mean to sound disrespectful, but if I did it's only because I take this issue very seriously.
@@Lucas43434 I also take this issue very seriously, as I have never consumed animal flesh since being a zygote, but I am also realistic. It would be unrealistic of me to say I am 100 percent unless I live off the land and produce everything my self, I can not be sure that it hasn’t caused any harm, correct? It is interesting you just assume it’s me unable to control my “cravings” though.... it’s not all about consumption of foods as I am sure you are aware. To be honest, expecting perfection and gatekeeping in this community is a huge problem. How disheartening would it be for someone to try and dip a toe into the vegan world, just to be in trouble for not being 100 percent perfect. So I am happy at a realistic 97 percent, thank you.
I'm glad you're doing a video on this. I normally like goodfulls content, as i think they're doing a great job of showing people the variety of foods you can have on a vegan diet when creative, but this video was disappointing to say the least.
Tearing apart this video in the most ethical and practical way possible. Love it!
Really appreciate these responses. Organized, well reasoned, and thorough as always.
You're videos are so amazing, they make you think rationally. I feel like the fact that you don't have millions of subscribers says a lot about the world
Can you review Greg doucette's "sugar is, good for you" video?
Can we just call it cultural appreciation? I eat these foods because I like them!
Generally, international foods are what brings us together. My experience having multicultural friends is that everyone loves to share their food with each other.
Same here! Using their logic, I (white guy) should only be eating at white-owned European restaurants because otherwise I'd be appropriating other cultures. Like give me a break.
Was discussing animal agriculture land use the other day on FB - and someone tried to use an article saying 'why being vegan isn't always green' to try and rebute my statement that meat is much worse for the environment. In the article it literally said 'you cannot deny meat is the worst food group to the environment' it was fucking laughable
They look lk characters on portlandia
Yeah, it feels like a Portlandia skit without the humor
The weird sort of infantilizing pillow fort aesthetic is also just off-putting. These are grown adults, not children. Also the woman's demeanor and facial expressions just seem off. She seems kinda like a teacher talking to a really dumb child and trying SO hard not to be patronizing, but failing.
I thought the exact same thing! It's like a Portlandia nightmare because it's not parody at all, yet it tries all of this chaotic goofiness to deliver a completely serious conversation lol.
Sorry about my comments. I have a mental illness
I apologize, I don't know what I'm saying. I have bi polar.Her book was so bad. Her videos are the best.
The thing with "cultural appropriation" is that I most often see it in the west and much much less (or close to none) in the actual countries that are being "appropriated". Wearing cultural clothes or eating their foods are very often appreciated and seen as a sign of respect (of course, if you are respectful about it, as with everything else). Every time I make any dish from any of my friends cultures, them and their families are really excited about it. The only times I see people complain about this are either white people (ironically) or a small amount of dispora (and A LOT of disporas disagree with them), which is a pretty small percentage of their "people".
Yeess!!
I was waiting for this video!!
Huh, thank you for the new perspective on quinoa. I'll check that out.
7:45 Environmental issues are also ethical issues. If we are talking about how we ought to act, then we are talking about ethics. And when are discussing environmental issues we are talking about how we ought to act, so these are also discussions about ethics.
Thanks UV for such a good response video!
Yes, yes, yes! Love your counterpoints to each argument ✨👌
That Goodful video makes me so irrationally angry! I come across these "arguments" on social media all the time and it's exhausting. People debunk them left and right, but they get parroted again and again. Can people just stop for a moment and listen instead of hiding behind "wokeness" and effectively hurting the people they use as a shield against veganism? It's so dumb.
Thank you Swayze for making this video. I will refere to it when I come across this stuff again.
I'm so happy you covered this video. I watched it when it first came out and just thought, oh great more "It's ok to not be vegan even though we are capable bullshit ". I took it as a piece non-vegans could use to justify their anti-vegan stance but honestly the most irritating thing for me personally in the video was when they mentioned foods like avocado and quinoa. Plenty of people particularly following other "healthy" diets (keto, paleo, low-carb etc) eat these foods regularly. They aren't exclusively vegan but they acted as if the increase in demand was purely from veganism alone.
I clicked this so fricken fast.
same lol
I liked it so fricken fast..
Sorry about my comments. I have a mental illness
I apologize, I don't know what I'm saying. I have bi polar.Her book was so bad. Her videos are the best.
Thank you, I love your balanced commentary!
Been craving your content recently LMAO
I think that on the point of cultural appropriation it is important to make a distinction between appropriation and appreciation. I think trying new foods and tweaking recipes is pure appreciation. You’re not appropriating when you are just interested in trying new foods. I think opening a vegan restaurant and cooking a cuisine that isn’t from your culture and you’re mixing cuisines and it’s a fusion restaurant it’s good to make that clear. Don’t lead people to believe it’s authentic food from that cuisine, but that’s more about not misleading people than appropriation but I could be wrong.
Cultural appropriation is an idea that has merit at its base, but has become twisted to the point that it's meaningless. The original idea is something like, don't take the religious iconography of a culture and use it in your commercials, or other things that are blatantly disrespectful. But it's just become a stupid woke-contest talking point where people use it to attack others for perceived slights.
@@orirune3079 that’s why I think it’s important to make a distinction between appropriation and appreciation. You can’t just call everything appropriation just because you want to come across as super woke.
@@julieannelovesbooks But even the 'appropriation' vs. 'appreciation' distinction is difficult to apply, because there isn't likely to be consensus (even within the source culture) about what counts as which.
One Japanese person may view dressing as a Geisha/Meiko to be appropriative, another may view it as appreciative. One Jamaican might view wearing dreadlocks and listening to reggae appropriation, another appreciation of Jamaican culture.
Even as a Westerner - I frequently watch/read East Asian media which features...creative...interpretations of Christianity/European culture. Hellsing, for example, is based on 20th century Protestant-British-Knights fighting against Catholic-Vatican-Priests with vampires and a lot of references to the Queen. I love it, but if were to apply the same standards to non-Western creators that we do to Westerners, and I were in any way religious, maybe that would count? Point is, it's a fuzzy line.
@@merrymachiavelli2041 you are absolutely right. It’s a fuzzy line and there’s no clear cut answer to what belongs in what category. I just mentioned it because I think it’s important to think about. I felt like the creators of the original video were just so scared of negative feedback that everything from other cultures becomes lava that you can’t touch or use or enjoy.
One thing I always like to point out when talking about appropriation is oppression. As a white person I can dress a certain way, behave a certain way and change all of these things whenever I feel like without being oppressed the same way the people are where the clothings and behaviors come from. My body and my life aren’t policed the way other people’s bodies are, especially people from minority groups. This is why I don’t have such a problem with the way Christianity is depicted in things like anime, because historically speaking Christians have been the oppressors, not the oppressed. Therefore (mis)representation is less dangerous because these people are widely accepted and not dismissed for their religion. I’m not talking on an individual basis though. Everyone has their own experiences and I can’t speak to that. I’m sure some people have been ridiculed for their religion even in Christianity. But as a group they aren’t oppressed. As far as I know Christianity is still the largest religion by population, at 31% of all people on earth.
Wait, I need to stop making homemade salsa until Mexico says it's OK? No more homemade pizza til Italy weighs in? No more ice cream, mayonnaise (French) or sushi? Beer was invented in Egypt; what are we going to do about that?
As an Italian I officially allow you to make pizza.
Honestly food and music tend to be a grey area in appropriation. Especially since it’s a way to share your culture with people. Eating curry isn’t seen the same as doing a sacred/traditional dance.
No it's bullshit
always on the point; always! you did it again!!!keep going.
You're the only vegan channel on UA-cam I enjoy watching. I'm not vegan myself for medical reasons, though I do enjoy lots vegan foods. II like that you seem pretty logical, practical, and insightful. ✌💚🤘
Goodful had a recipe where they put roasted squash in a taco. Some of their recipes lack protein, from my starting to watch the channel.
Great video, Swayze.
The use of a samosa as an example of "stealing" food from a culture is especially hilarious, since potatoes originated in the Americas and were brought over to Europe/Asia sometime within the past 500 years.
Ahahaha almost like they have no idea what they're talking about.
HUMANS ARE FRUGIVORES
COOKED FOOD IS TOXIC
VIRUSES DO NOT EXIST
THERE IS NO PANDEMIC
VACCINES ARE TOXIC
KNOWLEDGE AND PROPER EDUCATION HELP A LOT
I forgot to take my meds! Just ignore what I wrote!
@Swayze's teacher what is with you weird trolls all over her videos?
@@orirune3079 I forgot to take my meds.
Regarding cultural appropiation, I'd say the issue is that Samosa is now portrayed as a "Hot Pocket", meaning you change the "identity" of a traditional food, instead of educating yourself on the traditions behind it. I don't think the idea of eating foods from different cultures is a problem, but the transformation from, for example, a South Asian dish to a vegan trend is. Also the point about non white vegan existing is weak imo, because if you look at veganism nowadays, yes, there are people who do it for ethical, religious, enviornmental or other positivly justifiable reasons that are non white, but there is a significant increase of people who go vegan because it's the new hot thing people are doing. And here lies the issue when talking about cultures. It's awesome that a lot of people are becoming vegan especially from an ethical pov, however, them adopting traditional dishes from various cultures and claiming them as their own, aka vegan hot pockets instead of south asian samosa and then criticizing those same cultures for also having traditional dishes with animal products is very ignorant and harmful.
When I say "they" I don't mean it on an individual level, but they as the community of vegans that are vegans just because it's trendy and they feel superior for caring for animals and the environment, without actually caring. In an era of globalization, it's natural for cultural exchange to occur, nonetheless, there are various forms in which it can occur and because of the past, historically certain cultures have been seen as less then and have been discriminated against. Nowadays lines are a bit blurry because of willing or forced immigration that happened over the last centuries, hence why it is important to give credit where credit is do and respectfully adopt into your diet in this case a dish from a different culture, while educating oneself in regards to it.
During the Roman Empire, for example, when they conquered a new territory they would start the "romanization" process, which meant forcefully implementing their language, culture, technology, currency etc. onto the inhabitants of the newly conquered territory, while erasing the identity of the conquered ones, but keeping whatever they deemed useful and implementing it as their own element of identity and culture. In other words, cultural appropiation. Going back to current times, this is why it's important to credit the culture when promoting a certain dish. Like when you eat pasta, you think of Italy and Italians. Even though there is pasta everywhere nowadays, you can pin point a culture and region attributed to it. If we rebrand a traditional plant based vegan dish into a marketable vegan dish, eventually it will be impossible to pin point the origins of that dish and risk to contribute to a slow process of erasing elements of some cultures. This leads to the supremacy of a certain part of the population of one wannabe homogeneous culture, which actually is heterogeneous and discriminatory. And this is detrimental to the communities affected that also is transferred to an individual level.
Sorry for my potential mistakes, I'm not native english.
I wish I could like this comment 100x
Why wouldn't it be called vegan hot pockets when the dish is called hot pockets by meat eaters? And also, what is the big deal with which country came up with which food? I appreciate it and I will eat it and replicate it and tweak it as I see fit. Cultural appropriation is a concept I don't understand anyway, but especially not in food.
And about veganism being a trend - I'll tell you right now, being vegan is not easy. Depending where you're from of course, you might not have any vegan restaurants, shops, clothes. Not to mention the social stigma, which exists and I feel it every time I go somewhere where there's food, like dinner parties, or lunches or barbecues. Or even just casual hangouts where there's non-vegan snacks (various jinds of chips). I find that my go to response to why I'm not eating anything animal is I am alergic. So it stops all inquisition because I'm sick of it.
So, it's not so easy and I guarantee that whoever is doing it because it's "trendy" will last a couple of months at most. Also, these people are in the minority, so I don't know why they even warrant a mention.
For quinoa though, I would suggest watching a dw documentary called superfoods. Talks of the environmental impact of the quinoa hype. It is an interesting documentary
Thanks for the video. Interesting analysis and conclusion.🌱
Comment for the algorithm!
All hail the totally fair and not broken algorithm!
@@davidlovesyeshua Sad but true
Sorry about my comments. I have a mental illness
One thing that makes people shit on other cultures' styles and food less is....those people being familiar and comfortable with those foods and styles. More people embracing those things is good for everyone I would think!
Couldn’t make it through the first couple minutes lol (of that other video… not this one hah)
Their video is so grating. 🤦♀️ if they were too scared to be forthcoming, they shouldn’t have made the video at all.
I'm khmer and I admit I sometimes get slightly annoyed ad the new hip and trendy S-E asian restaurants held by white people that pop everywhere? Obviously not at the point of hating them and thinking that it's "wrong", hell, I eat there sometimes and yeah the food can be great.
It think the "appropriation" issue is obviously overblown, but I do understand a bit of the salt.
I don't know how it was where you live, but here for example Asian restaurants have a very bad reputation of being dirty, greasy and shady, there is even a word for the "chinese-restaurant sickness" because of the supposed poisoning by glutamate monosodium (very common in asian cuisine). They say we serve cat and dog food, etc...
But when white people open their chinese-french fusion tapas bar, now it's trendy and cool and everyone will buy their okay-ish pho for 15euros.
It's not "wrong", I'm glad these people have a thriving business and try new things. But yeah. Just a slight salty feeling in the throat nonetheless. At least I hope (and I think it's happening) that it helps break the stigma as people develop more interest in the food they discover, and they end up exploring asian restaurants more. Just kind of frustrated that people couldn't do that without it.
This obviously overlap far beyond veganism, and I think the defiance and annoyance from some POC comes from the very real experience of white people pinching their nose at traditionnal food but absolutely celebrating it when other white people make it. I hope it's clearer phrased that way. There is also a whole lot more to discuss about the "fetishisation" of "exotic" imagery in order to sell, but that's its own can of worms.
Cultural appropriation is not "wrong", it's just something that happens with good or bad consequences I believe. But I also think that it's not unreasonnable to expect from people deciding to appropriate another culture, in order to build a business, to at least educate themselves and really take the time to understand the ramifications of this appropriation.
(I'm specifically talking about business of course. If you like to cook indian food for yourself in your home I don't get why anyone would criticize you.)
Them going on about white appropriation followed by them appropriating other cultures actual need for animals to survive lol
Love this video! You made some excellent points and stuck to your vegan guns on this one :D
I am Mexican, Finnish, and Jewish. I hereby give people permission to put refried beans on their bagels and wash it all down with lots of coffee.
Seriously, food is all about cultural appreciation. So many "traditional" food were inspired by foods from other cultures. Mexican pastries were appropriated from the French. Tacos al pastor are cooked on a vertical spit. They got the idea from Lebanese immigrants in Mexico city making shawarma. Do the woke people eat potatoes? Because those are originally from South America. FFS let's enjoy stuff from other cultures. I have found vegan kimchee at Kroger affiliates. Kimchee on ramen is delicious. I am sure Cheap Lazy Vegan would have no problem with a round eye like me eating kimchee.
This is the best video that responded to this Goodful video I have seen.
I have had to go dairy free since I have developed either an allergic reaction to lactose or digestive issues when I eat dairy. So I have made conscious efforts to eat plant based meals fairly frequently throughout the week. Going completely plant based doesn’t work for me, as I often find myself still following old habits I would use when i was up to my ears dealing with an ED. Having to watch what I eat due to my health is okay for me, mentally. But pushing myself into such restrictions isn’t good for me. So I stick with fixing food that sounds good to me in the moment,it’s it’s the Beyond Brats, then that’s what’s for dinner. But if I feel like I want an egg or an animal product, then that’s whet I fix. Having found an Oat Milk I love has made my life that much easier.
😁😁so much passion to make the video, well done
The video they made is too strange
You thought "bacon though" was bad...
Introducing "cars though"
SMH
Fruitarians were included in the studies cited - I wish Unnatural Vegan went into more detail about what the share of people practicing varying degree of veganism. If there are so many fruitarians, then that could be a valid point on environmental footprint of vegan diets.
Thank you. This video from goodful was so off
You excited for freelees new video today, I'm interested to see what she could actually take from the videos you made
Freelee has a history of anorexia, bulimia, drug abuse and now she thinks she's a frugivore, lol. She should better stfu and stop spreading her eating disorders on social media
Source: Go to Dailymotion and search for "Anorexia, bulimia, eating disorders Part1 with Banana Girl"
your videos are amazing!!!
I would really like to know your opinions on veganism and poverty. Is it possible for someone that lives in poverty in America be vegan we are not just eating rice and beans in tomato sauce because “vegan meat. cheese and milk” is so expensive. And also things like supplements and vitamins.
She stated in this video that veganism isn’t against those who eat out of necessity. Being poor and not affording a vegan diet, is therefore necessary to eat what you can.
Swayze has made videos about food desserts, and reasons why people might not be able to go vegan, and there are legitimate reasons why one cannot.
Great video Swayze
I wonder how they'd respond to the "people will lose their livelihoods" argument regarding: the auto industry, the oil industry, the arms industry..!
Plus FAO estimates agriculture is 14.5% of ghg emissions while EPA says it’s only 10% because they use older models of the effect of methane
Not saying that I agree or disagree with veganism and the link to cultural appropriation, but I am disappointed you didnt present more information about cultural appropriation in general and instead, just went with the stance that you know little about it, it confuses you, and you dont understand it. You typically do research for other topics but I am confused as to why little effort was put into this point. Even if you personally dont care, you should be respectful and try to educate yourself about the impact it has on ethnic minorities and then present your opinion given studies you find on the subject like you normally do
I don’t get why Americans are so obsessed with the “purity” of a culture and are against culture fusion restaurants...cultures are constantly evolving especially in the US where they are always being exchanged and influenced by other cultures
Only through commentary channels can I just about tolerate watching videos like this by goodful or WIL :D
I often wonder if the anti ‘culture appropriation ‘ really only live according to what comes from their own culture. Oh and you might be interested in
MedCrams most recent video on meat and dairy. I thought it was interesting especially because they are a mainstream medical channel.
I’m Mexican and I don’t give a damn if anyone wants to make tacos, enchiladas, etc...you love the food then make it! If they wanna open a Mexican restaurant...do it! That is not a problem. People need to stop assuming that every person in every culture is going to be offended. Stop walking on egg shells people. Do what you want, eat what you want. If your intentions are good, that’s all that matters. This is yet another fabricated, first world country problem.
As someone who does know what cultural appropriation is, it most certainly doesnt relate to food. It's not even an inherently negative thing, especially in art: see Gordon Bennett's 'Outsider'
Great video again!
I don’t know who you are and I’m not a subscriber, came to know about your book from Freelee she recommended it, I would like to buy 15 copies as gifts 🎁📚 since its science based. If there is a way I could still buy it please let me know. Tks.
I dislike so many of their arguments but particularly the one about groups that depend on the livestock industry for their livelihood. The right makes the same argument about fossil fuels and if we don’t replace fossil fuels there is no hope for the planet. Change is part of progress. It’s not easy but most necessary things aren’t easy.
I’m majoring in social anthropology and in our discipline that studies culture and social dynamics, cultural appropriation is just unavoidable for humans groups that are constantly in contact with each other. Condemning the so-called cultural appropriation is simply dumb and implies a definition of culture and society that is simply inaccurate and wrong.
We have several and several case studies reporting how groups interact with each other, and how these interactions bring cultural changes. Culture is dynamic and social phenomena such as migration and globalization are great examples of it.
And also, a pattern I have noticed in social media is that people who preach against cultural appropriation don’t even belong to X or Y culture that is being “appropriate”. And people who DO belong to X or Y culture that is being “appropriate” often would find simply dumb or funny such “appropriation”
We all know cultures borrow and interact with each other - but these interactions aren’t always benign, but are often based on power, exploitation, and violence. Debates about cultural appropriation start when a majority culture claims the products of a minority culture as its own or tries to profit from them. Then there’s loads of thorny issues involved.
If 2014 pseudo-intellectual tumblr shitposting was a video, it would be theirs. I've never seen two people speak so seriously while managing to saying nothing.
Wow. That video was just... absolutely inane and ridiculous on so many levels. Thank you for addressing it!
It's not helpful to say cultural appropriation is bad when it is so nuanced. People are very multi cultural these days. I'm not going to wear a sari but I'll eat a curry. One of England's national dishes is a curry. Scotland's haggis has its origins in middle Eastern cooking. And can it go the opposite way? Can I tell an Indian guy who's just moved to England he can't wear a black suit and bowler hat and don't you dare cook fish n chips. It's crazy! I know there is such a thing as cultural appropriation that IS problematic but to say nope sorry you can't eat that cultures food or wear anything remotely similar is crazy. How are we to celebrate each others cultures, experience something new?!
excellent!
#1~The idea that someone has to eat the exact foods that their ancestors ate is totally irrational and stupid...(going how far back in the generations?)(also we're all mutts. So, which ancestors are we only allowed to copy?)(and what if we want to eat beans, but our ancestors didn't have beans available?)
#2~There is a saying: "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". Anyone should be flattered that someone else wants to enjoy the food from their culture.
#3~There are no patents on recipes. There is nothing illegal or immoral about people making other cultures recipes. The idea that there is something wrong with a black person choosing to make a chinese recipe is just silly.
This "woke" business needs to stop.
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about eggs from pet backyard chickens? I’m almost completely vegan because it really bothers me to destroy a life in order to consume it, but I do eat eggs that I get from friends who have hens that are super happy and treated really well. They are literally pets. I feel ok about that 🤷🏻♀️
.
The only concern I have with taking eggs from my friend's backyard chickens is where the hens came from originally. If my friend had bought them from a garden supply store the chicks there come from hens from who knows where and the male chicks are still often killed right after hatching.
Just something to consider.
*edited a typo :)
That’s a good point, I’m not sure where their chicks came from 😔 I do know they have a rooster as well as hens but I don’t know where they got them from. I’m pretty new to all this so still figuring it out. I just see happy fluffy chickens running up when her daughter comes outside and her daughter picks them up and pets them and it seems like all is right with the world. Ugh! Why do all our systems have to suck 😫
@@MT-fk4ky it is frustrating having these effed up systems. I just do the best I can. Don't be too hard on yourself. You're doing great! :)
HUMANS ARE FRUGIVORES
COOKED FOOD IS TOXIC
VIRUSES DO NOT EXIST
THERE IS NO PANDEMIC
VACCINES ARE TOXIC
KNOWLEDGE AND PROPER EDUCATION HELP A LOT
Cultural appropriation as I've understood it is when a cultural item is taken and used for mockery or in a disrespectful manner, such as performing a religious ritual without being a believer in the religion or doing some other ceremony or wearing an item that has a level of seriousness attached without reason or appropriate seriousness, or when you take a cultural item that has in some way been denied to those who it originated from, like that thing with white fashion models with cornrows when that's still too often seen as an unprofessional or unattractive hairstyle on black people.
I guess this could occasionally be the case for certain vegan business owners if they're raising costs to sell to more well off vegans or selling ceremonious foods or pushing people from that culture out of the industry, but these are very niche circumstances that don't in any way reflect on veganism or vegans as a whole.
How exactly is making a chickpea curry worse than a butter chicken curry?