How is Apple allowed to write such contract, this is a slavery contract , if the other party wants to raise a court against Apple they can't because they can't share any info, imagine a marriage contract which has the same conditions the husband can beat his wife but she can't share anything about it to any court until 10 years have passed, this is considered slavery and violation of freedom of speech.
One that is common and secondly it is only 3 pages and not crazy in its wording. I don’t agree with NDAs but nothing in there is outlandish. I would compare that to a preen-up it’s up to the person to decide if it is worth it based on the individual. Apple has a lot to lose so they make people that do business with them sign this. Louis is a successful business man and does not require this program to pay the bills so it is not worth it to him. A new adult that wants to get into this type of work it would be an appealing option because it gives instant access to a large client base and possibly free training. Both of these things Louis does not need.
@@mikebalentine the fact that it's common doesn't mean it isn't manipulative. Secondly, the fact that it's three pages doesn't mean much. Legal contracts are made by, and for, lawyers. One should always have their attorney look over a contract before signing, or at least have the options to do so. This is especially important where there is a power imbalance, such as with a large company like apple and small independent repair shops.
> NDA says that you're not allowed to talk about the existance of said NDA > NDA says you're allowed to talk about things that are publicly available and are common knowledge > Louis Rossmann the Chad, posts the text of the entire NDA online > The fact that you aren't allowed to talk about the NDA is now publicly available knowledge > Everyone is now allowed to talk about having signed this NDA Idk why, but this is by far the funniest loophole in all of this that I find
@@VndNvwYvvSvv Care to explain? If I were running a similar business (after today) and Apple offered me the chance to join the program, the existence of this NDA would be prior knowledge. It already exists today and I just heard the text of it read publicly on UA-cam, so by its own terms, that information has been excluded from protection from disclosure.
If you'd previously signed the NDA, you still couldn't state that you have signed the NDA. You could talk about the NDA in the context of Louis sharing the details, but there'd be a breach if you starting referring to your own signed NDA.
No no. It has to be prior knowledge to be allowed to talk about it so BEFORE you signed it. Which means people that signed before this video still can't say they have signed one or that it exists
@@terasestHammasratas does that count even if he never signed it? just knowing that there is an offer for an NDA discloses you to not speaking about it before an agreement?
@@terasestHammasratas thats questionable at the least. It's an agreement. If one party didn't agree there is no deal. There ain't no automatic presumption of agreement neither.
I have to applaud (and laugh at) the fact that a confidentiality agreement is like, "Hey, I know you haven't signed this yet, but don't share this agreement, it's confidential!"
It even contradicts itself, because it says you are allowed to talk about information known before you sign. So you should be able to talk about the contract even after signing it because you read it before signing.
If they don’t make you sign it the day you see it, then you can claim the contract itself was not included under the NDA…and you might be able to wiggle around it legally. Probably not, but I’m sure the reason they don’t give you more time is one that only helps them.
The nature of this NDA is troubling and should be used as an example of what a manufacturer is not allowed to do. Looks like we need laws to make these types of NDA illegal.
Ohhhh boy. Ya'll haven't heard of National Security Letters, I see? It's always funny when people think the pile of sand is bad but have no idea about the huge honking mountain range. The U.S. _is_ a police state. FYI in case ya hadn't heard.
@@raythe9264 Read the actual law documents. U.S. law is legitimately worse than Russia and Chinuh. I'm _not_ joking. The only provision of The Constitution still fully intact is the 13th amendment, and that's because it's functionally useless for anyone who isn't a corporation. The 13th was ruled in court, many times over, to have no effect on indentured servitude because it defines a penal violation with no attached penalty and therefore one cannot collect civil claims. However, it does explicitly legalize for-profit incarceration.
@@ChrisWijtmans Freedom of speech is something people don't fully understand it seems. Sure you are free to say whatever you want as long as it doesn't cause harm to others, but you also are not exempt from the consequences of what your words bring. If you say things you agreed to keep secret that would damage a company / individual's reputation or income that could have consequences. The intent of an NDA was to my knowledge, simply an agreement between parties as to what you were intending to not disclose and also what the consequences of failing to abide by it are/were. Whether you believe in that or not is irrelevant, as long as its enforced by the judicial system, but as I said previously the length of the maximum term of an NDA and its limits haven't been properly defined by congress or the courts.
I don't think that's how this works. He can say he's been offered to sign an NDA before signing it, but if he does sign, he can no longer talk about anything. (Which would be a confirmation obviously) but doesn't make the contract impossible afaik.
Nah, why would he remove it, once it landed here it was publicly available and it was not his fault, since he has not signed yet., but I am not a layer so maybe it is his fault :D
is there a time limit on that nda ? hint: no, all they have to do is to make personally identifiable info on everything , which they can, and they will
Nope, the repair Wiki was public knowledge BEFORE he signed the agreement. Besides, the agreement is between RRG and Apple, and the wiki is handled by a non-profit. But, having said that, if he signs (and then becomes a certified IRS), neither him, nor any employee of RRG can publish anything in the wiki until after 7Years of agreement termination.
The program probably isn't very good if they need that NDA to prevent people from talking about it. I am not a lawyer but that is very broadly written, lots of catch all wording. Would not make for good youtube videos lol.
I regularly need NDAs in my line of work. They don't need to be ridiculous. The bigger the company, the dafter they tend to be however. We always read every single line, and straight-up put lines through sections we have issues with. We will then go back to them and offer our NDA instead and tell them we will either use that or they can fix our found issues and we will check again. Most of the time we have no issues with this. On the odd occasion that the company gives us pushback, we wish them a good day and leave them to it. Amusingly, at that point, a surprising amount of them will suddenly do as we ask.
That is an astute way to handle this situation. On the other hand NDA, Non-Competes, and practically any Confidentiality Agreement must provide compensation to both parties to be valid. You can write the most eloquent contract, but if it doesn't have compensable vernacular, practically any legal counsel can squash the document. That's not to mean that a company like Apple would just give up at the first road block. They would of course exhaust all legitimate and more often than not illegitimate avenue of reciprocity until a magistrate put them on their heels and denied them any recourse. Even then companies like them are likely to be vindictive in any way possible.
@@bruceleealmighty The phrase to remember is "Vindictively Litigious." This is a legal term which, when presented, means the court has the obligation to evaluate the suing party's past behaviour in bringing actions which are deemed to be frivolous, untenable, or unsupported by law in order to bully the defending party. Be prepared to bring examples; they are usually not hard to find and the suing party's lawyer will hate you for it. 🙂 One other thing to remember is word 'or' does not preclude automatically 'and'. That is if someone asks if you want 'a','b', or 'c' it does not mean you must only pick one. You need a preceding clause to make that distinction. Examples: "Please pick one of 'a','b', or 'c'." - You must choose one and only one. "Please pick 'a','b', or 'c'" - You may pick zero or more without restriction.
Yes !! I'm proud of you !!! THAT'S how consumers SHOULD conduct business in ALL aspects ESPECIALLY with housing leases and rental agreements. I will not negotiate nor do business with ANY landlord or business that refuses to be fair. If they are serious about doing business they will cooperate with the consumer. WHEN will americans get it through their block head -- a business can only exist by REPEAT consumer buying. If you stop buying they go out of business. WHEN will americans stop being weak and cowardly and stop letting corporations, hospitals and other business dictate service and product and even hours of operation. The consumer has the power to control product, service and hours of operation. People need to stop demanding stupid internet connected toys and it will stop subscription nonsense and they WILL be forced to change their wayward ways.
I've been asked to sign NDA's a couple of times. I make sure I read the damn thing thoroughly and ask questions and if there is a issue I disagree with I'll draw a line through, initial and date - then photocopy. You'd be surprised how many companies shit themselves when someone reads the NDA. I've refused on several occasions especially when a US company tries to get me to sign something in legal bullshitese, on one occasion it started with "By the authority of the court of Santa Clara County, California" I handed it back and told the rep 'This isn't even worth contempt, we're in Ireland which is a sovereign state, with it's own judicial system. Come back with a proper NDA.'
"And you agree to the terms and conditions, and any changes we may create, by breathing the air on any planet whereupon we operate, and accept these terms that you would laugh at if they were on a box of dog biscuits..." Sir Terry Pratchett. Knighted by the queen of England for service to literature. As a knight, he made his own sword, throwing in a bit of meteorite (for the magic). And by f'ing English law, he couldn't carry his own f'ing sword. Ing, ing, ing!
@@drewt1717 tell that to Uruha Rushia. But then again, the NDA thing was just an excuse for them to backpedal from supporting her to straight up terminating her, so yeah. They don’t just do nothing, they use it as legal loophole to do whatever they want done.
They wouldnt want NDA under fair laws. They would have to worry about getting screwed. :D I heard some things about Delaware and i think whatever laws they have there, it would be biased towards companies and not the people.
@@asakayosapro Leaking shit that you're not supposed to leak is never a good light to be in. Them supporting her for possibly maybe having a boyfriend, vs "hey here's a bunch of confidential information in emails that nobody outside of the company I work for" isn't even a fruit and a fruit. It's like comparing apples and tires.
Here’s what I’ve learned in my 60 + years of existence. 1. There are no SMALL hills to die on. If people aren’t willing to stand up for the small things it is a guarantee you won’t stand up for the big things. I’ve used your service several times when you were located in New York. ( I’m in SC) what I absolutely appreciate about you is your integrity. But that comes with a cost. ( I’m fully aware) stick to you guns, let the chips fall where they may. In other words act accordingly. You’ll always be able to hold your head up. For what it’s worth , not much, you have my absolute respect.
How is Apple allowed to write such contract, this is a slavery contract , if the other party wants to raise a court against Apple they can't because they can't share any info, imagine a marriage contract which has the same conditions the husband can beat his wife but she can't share anything about it to any court until 10 years have passed, this is considered slavery and violation of freedom of speech.
Don't sign. If someone leaks NDA'd content and you publish it, I don't think you can get in trouble for hiding your source. But if you sign you are bound unless it's found unlawful.
Which determining if it is lawful or not will require either a court declaration in advance or some kind of "3rd party" arbitration which I use in quotes, because Apple's definitely going to make sure a "totally non-biased" arbitrator will be used. That's why they're pushing to have arbitration done in state that is *not* the one whose laws they're invoking for the NDA
In court, if a piece of information is thrown out as evidence because it came from a document/source/etc that was obtained improperly, the exact same information can be introduced as evidence if they can show it from another, properly-obtained source. It's possible that information subject to an NDA would fall under the same kind of thing.
Isn't it nice that it expires at the end of the day, pretty much leaving you with no possibility of consulting a lawyer. So nice of them to pressure someone into a NDA that expires in X hours
Yeah, I though that a bit dodgy too, lol! I'm not even sure that's even legal. I thought that you HAD to give someone AT LEAST 7 working days to go over any documentation and get back to you. Never heard of something that expires in a mere 24 hours. I smell bullshit...
The link to the document expires, but not the document itself. It's guaranteed that if you ask Apple to resend a link to sign that document, they would oblige and send a new one. The point in gaining access to the document is to download it and put it in front of a lawyer. Apple understands this. They also understand that it is unlikely the first document link sent will be signed instantly.
They'd simply use the NDA to stop you from talking about Apple repair as a subject. Then they would probably ignore you and still not give you the tools you need to do the repairs you want to do.
Good. I'm glad Louis was smart enough not to sign. Would you believe when I was working at big box pet store for a crappy part time job to get out of the house a few hours a week, the boss handed me a pen and told me I needed to sign an NDA? I was like wtf is that?! I had no clue. Basically if I signed it, I could be fired and sued if I badmouthed them on social media or told everyone the truth about how badly the animals get treated there. I video taped me burning my uniform until it melted into a gelatinous polyester liquid and posted it on Facebook and UA-cam and texted it to my boss when she asked me why I never showed up for work. Not worth all that for minimum wage, lol.
Just so you know, they could still fire you for badmouthing them, though they technically couldn't fire you for speaking any particular truths that can't be regarded as proprietary company secrets. Of course, they could fire you for anything else that may happen to be convenient. Our problem, as it always has been, is our economic and political system. It's a system which empowers an enriches employers and oppresses and exploits workers.
In most jurisdictions, they would not have been able to fire you for refusing to sign. Usually, if you had already been working there, there would need to be "fresh consideration" surrounding your continued employment there. For example, if they were giving you a promotion and more responsibilities. Or they were moving you to an area where you'd be learning something new about their business. In a sense, they would have to present you with "something new" about your job, something that would reasonably warrant new terms or conditions surrounding your employment. Merely saying, "sign this or else you can't continue working for us" alone is not "fresh consideration" about your job. It sounds like nothing about your job and duties changed, they merely wanted to gag your first amendment rights. Such an NDA would not be enforceable. They would of course be welcome to have new employees sign the NDA you mentioned, but you were already there on previously agreed to terms. In a sense, you were already under contract. That said, it's not hard for an employer to just say, "please sign this, it won't have any impact on your job if you don't", wait a few months after you refuse to sign and then come up with a bogus reason to eliminate you or your job. However, if they do this with a number of people, the group could likely file a "wrongful termination" suit if they could prove that the business mostly only got rid of the people who didn't sign.
It's only an NDA when it is signed by both parties. Until then it's just a document containing words. DATA. Garbage in Garbage out. I do enjoy this move though. It provides full disclosure, to absolutely any party. Much like Right to Repair is supposed to be all about.
@@bruceleealmighty Technically and lawfully yeah, but what he did would still attract someone's ire. While apple won't be able to legally destroy Rossman, there are tons of other ways to screw him up while still within the legal system. Apple is still a big company with a lot of connections after all. He probably won't attract the executive level, but the middle management/branch managers (Espc PR department) would get angry at him because it would reflect poorly on their career profile. His existence would mean the incompetency of not being able to handle someone like him. The only real way Rossman could protect himself is to gain publicity and online evidence to protect himself. As long as Rossman still has a lot of netizens' support and attention, Apple won't be able to touch him as the cost would be too high to screw someone at his level. But once Rossman lost the internet protection, then things would start to get really shitty fast.
As a matter of principle, I never sign NDA's, so my advice would be "no". I definitely wouldn't sign an NDA that says I can't even discuss being under an NDA. That's actually pretty ridiculous, and sounds like they got it from a certain movie: "The first rule of our NDA is that you don't talk about our NDA".
i signed a NDA once, it was a nice one though so it only covered the "personal information" part of the job in general.. it was a few guff there like not giving out boss phone number and such aswell.. but i was all good with telling people that i have signed a NDA and what i have to follow.
I remember I signed one such NDA saying I couldn't even mention the NDA. It was entirely unenforceable and it was on a single sheet of paper. It looked like they hastily threw something together without consulting a lawyer.
This happens a lot with the big companies. I remember the story of CPM(I believe) and IBM where some IBM Execs came to the home of CPM's founder who wanted to implement it in their systems. according to the story CPM guy fluffed them off, going out on his boat and just partying like usual and not caring about the IBM guys, and when the IBM guys came to his home and he wasn't there, they tried to force his wife to Sign on NDA stating that she cannot disclose they were ever there. Apparently it was a big issue that arose, but I'm not sure of all the specifics. Either way these companies have a lot to lose with some things, so their NDAs are crazy.
Corporations pay the real taxes, hence they are allowed to write the laws. Payroll taxes won't cover crap. A government is like a kid in a candy shop - it will do anything for extra candy. ANYTHING. Just look at the city of Detroit.
@@ihavenoson3384 What of Detroit are you referencing? I've never been there or hear much from there. So I genuinely am curious as to what stands out about Detroit with respect to this topic.
@@anthonynelson6671 The city of Detroit from 1950 to 2013, culminating to a chapter 9 bankruptcy that terminated 7 billion USD of debt. The city has a long history of mismanagement corruption. "July 1992 / Moody's cuts Detroit's debt rating to junk status." 'Two city workers' pension plans had for nearly 25 years been paying out "13th month" checks.' That allegedly is mostly because after the freeway / highway systems were built, the business was no longer trapped there and moved into the suburbs to utilize the commuting options. The city allegedly reacted by raising taxes across the board, especially property taxes, which caused a lot of business and workers to leave the city. This culture of worsening overtaxing continues to this day. A city of 1.8 million population in 1950 is now under 700k. "Detroiters have a painful history with overtaxation, having been overtaxed to the tune of $600 million between 2010 and 2016 alone."
@@omsi-fanmark if they are expensive is because they are top lawyer, although why people would pay a lot of money to them. Of course there can be a lot of cheaper lawyer that can do their exact and maybe better work
@@Stewie4238 Having a high pricetag doesn't necessarily mean that someone has valued them at that price. They might have recently raised their prices, or worse, they might have only ever gotten customers by using their pricetag as evidence of competence. It's a classic problem in free markets... normally, the market pressures sellers to provide a good service at a low price. If someone is managing to stay in the market with a high price, then they're probably compensating for that high price with a _very_ good service. However, if customers use that fact as a heuristic for determining which services are good, then the entire mechanism breaks down, and sellers are incentivized to have a high price regardless of service quality.
Written and signed a few NDAs in the course of my businesses and there are some immediate and obvious red flags with this one. The time crunch, the lack of openness whatsoever, and complete control without flexibility all sounds like nopes from me. I'd pass! Good on you, Louis!
@@gingercat7925 It's not about making a profit off suing Louis, it's about silencing one of the biggest voices against their shitty practices forever, which in itself is an incalculable profit.
Don't do business with the people you do not trust. Apple has a lot of powerful lawyer looking for loop holes to get y. once you sign the NDA it will be worse.
when you normally sign an NDA, you get something clearly defined in return. but when it's unclear what you'll be getting in exchange, the odds clearly tip in their favor, and signing this contract becomes more like turning a blind corner at 120mph. these kinds of contracts should really be legally questionable.
the non legal term is a "lootbox" you buy the lootbox and have no clue what you get in return. So you can look at it as a lootbox agreement. Apple wont be playing nice with louis if he sign it, they would force louis to burn down hes company to remove all "not approved" documents and information. Or force luis to accept a apple zombie as hes boss.
Any NDA without comparable "considerstion" is legally void. Jimmy John's actually got sued for a similar NDA & non-compete they tried to enforce in minimum wage employees and settled for almost 2 million dollars in a class action.
7 years is a long time after termination .... A previous job I worked, my supervisor said "HR isn't there to protect employees, it's there to protect the company" I approach most contracts with skepticism. Most places are shocked I actually read them 🤣
I recently had a NDA expire from my student days, 10 years. Granted it was a sort of R&D company and the tech could be disruptive. Edit. My current job has a weird NDA, which is active from the time of signing, not termination of employment.
That NDA is basically a soft Gag order. Louis don’t do it and stick to your principles. It is your videos and creative genius that is why we are all here and why i can even open a device and fix it. Thank you Louis and stay strong stay yourself.
I went through this process up to this NDA part a few years ago, it's the same NDA you advised me not to sign. After reading it a few more times, I'm happy I did not sign it. It's not worth it.
Hire a subcontractor to sign the NDA. They can then sell you services related to the NDA tools without disclosing any information to you. They'll be able to calibrate the angle sensor for you without you being subject to the NDA. As a bonus you will be able to figure out what tools are available based on what services they can provide.
How is Apple allowed to write such contract, this is a slavery contract , if the other party wants to raise a court against Apple they can't because they can't share any info, imagine a marriage contract which has the same conditions the husband can beat his wife but she can't share anything about it to any court until 10 years have passed, this is considered slavery and violation of freedom of speech.
When it comes to NDA there are three things I look for before considering signing. 1) does it end? No end date leaves you vulnerable for anything you " Leak " in your old age 2) is there an ' out ' letting you off the hook due to time, payment, termination of the agreement that needed the the NDA plus 5 ( a reasonable number of years, not necessarily 5 ) years. 3) if you ' whistle blow ' that it is basically a pile of doo-doo you can't say ' cow pie ' about it. No end date, keeps them up to Bull activities and until the world blows up plus 5 years is a big red flag to post the NDA publicly and show that they are not actually following any ' right to repair '.
This NDA is silly. I wouldn’t say any. I do NDAs with my clients all the time. I do R&D and process development. It’s standard and perfectly reasonable in my world. There are non-competes too. Take a current client for example. I’m developing a drug and drug delivery system for his company. I’m forbidden from working on similar drugs for any competitors for the next 3 years. It’s no biggie though. I can do semiconductors or energy or a bunch of other stuff for a while… or spite him by taking my knowledge elsewhere if he doesn’t pay. lol
@@EnthalpyAndEntropy in this situation, he's 100% right. Louis has nothing to gain and everything to lose. Louis is not a contractor nor employee of Apple and is under no obligation nor has any need to sign one. I work in the computer industry and we use NDA's as well, to protect R&D proprietary properly, but nothing more. We don't use it to go after youtubers.
Tbh I'm surprised that I'm surprised by this... The crippling software game in use today, that removes functionality over time... and companies preventing repairs of their products are disgusting! You know the answer :) keep up the fight mate!
@@monsterhunter445 Gotta make the cat sign NDA too or else Clinton can talk on Louis' behalf! Then again Clinton might count as staff since he appears in videos, and any staff or associates or business partners were covered under the catch all BS in there.
Sometimes a big company will just assume you signed the NDA without actually ever verifying that you did. Just try to go forward without it and see what happens.
I remember playing flash games back when I was like 7 and they asked me if I was over 18. I, as an honest kid, would always press "no", but a lot of games just went ahead and played with no censorship. It's surprising how often buttons on web apps are completely useless.
For anyone reading this; A common trick among these types of vultures, lawyers etc, is to make you signa an binding agreement in a rush. Never sign anything when they don't give you ample time to think about it properly. It's a trick to get you nervous about the time constraint and make you think; "what if? I might loose out on this deal if I don't sign now". When you are nervous you generally get confused, but the use of such cheap tricks only shows that they are in an disadvantage.
Fun fact: Third party arbitration is used to protect Apple from potentially expensive class action lawsuits, and allows them to choose an arbitrator which will rule in their favor 100% of the time. There are people who had their primary source of income terminated by Patreon for no good reason other than that certain people at Patreon decided they did not like those people, they basically seized the money in their account, and when they tried to sue Patreon to get their money back and possibly get their accounts reinstated, the third party arbitrator pulled some insane bullshit to basically refuse them any recourse unless they were willing to spend insane amounts of money on lawyers. The arbitrators unilaterally declared things like "we have decided you're actually a corporation not a person, so we're going to require you to hire a team of corporate lawyers to defend yourself", etc.
Just be careful with anything that imposes a false time constraint, it's usually not in your best interest. Such tactics are usually used when they don't want your lawyer reviewing it and telling you about whatever problems are hidden in there.
True. I once declined a job offer from a company that tried to delay showing me the contract until my first day on the job. I insisted to be shown at least a non-signed draft in advance. When I received it, the draft was full of unreasonable constraints. No one with a brain would have signed such a document, unless they were pressured into it. To give this anecdote a nice finishing touch: The company was a subcontractor of the German Federal Government.
At my work place, we were reaching out to a new company for services. They asked us to sign their NDA. Being a public agency that we were, it was easier to have them sign our NDA instead. We offered a counter sign NDA document. Basically, we both just stood still. Maybe you can offer your counter sign NDA to Apple, with a one liner bull crap agreement.
You can do that but Apple gains nothing from having you on the program. In fact, they'd probably prefer for this program to not exist at all. They won't sign anything but this document which gives them complete control.
They know that their blanket NDA contract would be illegal in Delaware, that's why they have to explicitly write that in - to reassure themselves and to confuse the other party. It would also be illegal in many countries outside the US because an NDA that was signed without showing you the rest of the contract first will automatically become voided if you reject the other contract.
Great video Louis. I also got offered a job once for which I had to sign an NDA before getting any information about what it actually meant. This is an abusive practice and should not be accepted as such.
Louis should do a collab with one of the "legal" channels to go over the NDA (and because he's loaded now , he might even pay them with legal tender as opposed to the , much coveted, *eXpoSure* ). Considering some of the clauses , they might not even be legally binding/enforceable
How is Apple allowed to write such contract, this is a slavery contract , if the other party wants to raise a court against Apple they can't because they can't share any info, imagine a marriage contract which has the same conditions the husband can beat his wife but she can't share anything about it to any court until 10 years have passed, this is considered slavery and violation of freedom of speech.
@@rossmanngroup I understand the allergy to collabs as a marketing tool (so maybe it should be called something else) but it really is vital for the spreading of ideas. As sad as it may be, getting on Joe Rogan Experience and explaining the fuckery that companies engage in to disrupt our basic rights is the best way (in my estimation) to address this issue. I read you as a humble man who would wince at the exposure, but I would love to see that. P.S. Thank you
@@rossmanngroup You should really change your mind on that Louis, You're brilliant and we wanna see you on other platforms; doesn't have to be this legal bullshit but you were great on LTT and CBC dude what the fuck come on
NO, DO NOT cull yourself, and your potential ability to point something out to us that you feel we should know. Your voice is more important than that. Also, thank you for all you do. You sir, have my respect.
What I would do is take the NDA to your lawyer and have him adjust it a little, sign it, and send it back. They are a HUGE company and may not notice but even if they do your not out anything.
Rule #1. Any short deadline on signing is evidence an agreement is bad for you. They gave you a short artificial deadline as a tactic to limit your ability to think. #2. No powerful person or corporation ever EVER offers you anything good unless they absolutely have to. #3. It is not a good idea to sign any non-disclosure agreement of any kind when you’re in the business of disclosing things. Rule #0: if you sign anything of significance, write the agreement yourself and have them sign it.
@@MiantNo. I will be the first-ever powerful entity to offer you something good just because I am so very nice. That’s the kind of guy I am. You can sign my “agreement” in advance of that day.
@@parkloqi Rules 1 and 3 are things I agree with you on, and off the top of my head, I can't think of a case where 0 could ever be a bad idea. I certainly don't offer things to anyone unless I'm getting something out of it, even if that something is information gotten from seeing how they act differently in reaction to and result from the gift. An exception to this being the people I trust most, and that's a very short list, let me tell you. You may think that those are the people that'll screw you over faster than anyone, but this is only true for those with near-zero emotional awareness, people that can't pick up on vocal cues, body language, etc., and thus wind up treating those people horribly, oftentimes without meaning to. This skill will also heighten your ability to know *who* to trust. To those with an abundance of both power and empathy, it often feels the best course to appear cold to the public so as to avoid the parasites of the world, those lazy bloodsuckers that self-righteously demand that you give all you possess to them simply because their laziness and idiocy prevents them from earning it for themselves, and should you refuse, not only will they accuse you of selfishness for your unwillingness to cater to theirs, they'll smear your name to all who will listen. And by the time it gets to that extraordinarily gullible friend or lover of the person in question with power and empathy, the negatives of the story will be amplified, and a handful of others thrown in.
Okay, maybe my rule #2 was a bit overstated. I meant to say, #2 The Apple corporation is now full-psychopath and will go out of its way to harm anyone within reach, unless it first becomes clear to them there’s a substantial upside in not committing any particular atrocity.
Provision of schematics with every sale should be mandatory, the argument being that lack of provision is an implicit admission of unreliability, contravening public safety. Information can be, like flight, dangerous, and require safety rules. 👀
I have signed, and written, quite a few NDAs in my time, including one with Apple (not the worst I came across by far). I'm not a lawyer, and I always had a legal team review anything I put my signature to. I would recommend you do the same. Also - I probably wouldn't sign that agreement - it's a long way off "Mutual protection"
it overall seems like them wanting to be able to control what he can talk about, they can just make up something that is suddenly now "protected information" under such a wide blanket statement and prevent him from speaking up about
As an information management consultant (ret.), I negotiated large purchase agreements. The Apple "mutual" NDA is particularly absurd considering that this company was initially built with tiny, owner-operated dealerships. This agreement reminds me of a multi-million dollar purchase agreement for which IBM's only obligation was to deliver crates to a loading dock labeled with the word "Computer." No implied or expressed warrantee as to the crate's contents or usability.
Don't do it. You're the kind of person who needs to speak their mind and this will shackle you. I wouldn't mind at all if you did because I think if you learn anything useful you'd make good decisions based on that information. But I ultimately believe speaking your mind is more valuable.
SO you need to sue apple and request discovery, to find out everyone who signed this, and then ask as part of the discovery for them to talk about this program. Edit: And it probably needs to be a class-action lawsuit.
The irony is that if he DID sign the NDA, he'd be obligated to go through their hand-picked "third-party" arbitrator to "settle" any such disputes. Patreon vs Lauren Southern proved how bullshit these arbitrators are.
Louis wants to help people and fix devices but is literally being blocked to fixing certain devices. This would help reduce e-waste, save customers money by repairing these devices and create more jobs to repair these devices. Keep up the great work Louis, you are doing everything you can to make a change.
This document should be use to wipe ourselfs after a trip to the toilet, on a more serious note this contract seems so shady. I wonder if this could be used to start some sort of investigation into this program. There's so much BS in there it kinda scares me (not really but...) I would like to hear more from a law side, there has to be a loop hole we can exploit against this "Contract". Edit: I forgot to thank you Louis for sharing this!
Defeating the NDA: Do a charitable good deed by hiring a bum with no assets, esp a terminal one that just needs his remaining time made comfortable. Bum signs the NDA & all contracts in their own name, get the full works, then set up a disclosure trigger, whereby unless Bum actively resets the disclosure clock… so a week after his passing… everything becomes public and as he has no assets or estate… there are no assets and he’s dead so there’s nothing to to sue for, and no one to sue😂 Any lawyers in Louis’ club that can see any gaps in this?
Hey Louis =) I'm a portuguese silent supporter. Please keep going with your important mission and sh*t on that NDA. I truly believe that your actions will have consequences here in Europe, in the long term, one way or another. Keep going bro, be strong
@@clorofilaazul há sim =) infelizmente não consigo apoiar o Louis financeiramente mas estou bastante atento a esta luta dele, que já anda um pouco a ser a nossa aqui em Portugal. Um abraço
Section 3 is lawyer-speak for, "You are free to continue discussing your wages, hours, and working conditions as required by the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)". Yeahhhh, they made that law NDA-proof. And if any employer ever tells you that you can't discuss how much you make with your other employees, immediately turn around and shout how much you make and your job title. THAT is to get you out from under the at-will employment laws. "Oh, you were laid off? That's allowed. OH you were fired immediately after telling your coworkers how much you make in response to the email management sent illegally telling you you could not talk about your wages? Well I guess your former employer has a room temperature IQ and a six-figure fine coming their way!""
Did I understand correctly that you can discuss information that has already been made public by a third party? If so, it would be a shame if someone were to leak all proprietary info, thus allowing anyone under this nda to speak freely about anything regarding the program.
That NDA is probably OK for other people to sign, but if they get your signature on an NDA, I reckon it could be used as leverage to quiet you in the future.
Do remember that you can strike through (single line) and / or re-write anything in a document that you sign. If you make changes to the agreement, it's up to them to sign off on the changes. This isn't some ToS where you only have the option of hitting Agree or Disagree. The law is also not written in stone, it is very much up to interpenetration.
I wanted to make a comment while watching this video about "they want you to be their slave to exchange for nothing", but you make the same conclusion as me at the end of the video. I'm glad you did. You're a man with respect and it's cost a lot, but not this shitty contract. Good job👍.
Apple asking you to sign an NDA is like Willie Wonka asking you to say you can never taste, touch, smell, touch, record, or even comment on its candy during or after a tour of his factory.
I negotiate NDAs (MTAs, DUAs, Teaming Agreements, etc) for a living. If you care, here is a lot of comments. 1) Mutual NDA assumes both parties may be discloser or receiver. This could be preference, but take care what you disclose. 2) I always make effective the date of last signature, unless back dating is necessary because someone was on a site with Confidential Information (CI) at a prior meeting (it happens). 3) I would reject that CI definition (I recommend looking at major Universities definitions of CI, but in general, it should be far more rigid than "anything", include clear markings when applicable, and if verbal or visual, reduced to writing later and so marked. In addition, as I work for a major research public university, I cannot agree to keep confidential that such an agreement exists, I can only agree to keep confidential the particulars. 4) I execute a couple hundred NDAs a year with industy, other universities, other countries, federal, etc. 2 and 3 look like very standard language. That 1-2-3 list of exclusions is normal (usually ranging between the same 3-6 exclusions you'd see when googling. I see section 3 a lot in reference to Open Record Acts and the like. Basically the NDA will not protect CI if a lawful order (deposition, Open Records Act, etc) requires the disclosure and the disclosing party complying with said order is not in breach of the NDA. Regarding whether "does the NDA prohibit me from discussing the purpose of the NDA if said purpose later becomes unlawful?" I would suggest legal counsel, but in general I would guess no (or that you'd have a hard time deciding later that something you both signed and agreed was confidential information was suddenly (and unilaterally) not confidential. Sorry I cant help more here. 5) Section 5. I don't accept gag orders or prior approvals that may be withheld indefinitely, though I would say industry considers it standard in commercialization. I do not see the benefit to you in agreeing to section 5 as written (again, I would, at most, agree to keep confidential the contents of the NDA upon signing, but neither that such an agreement exists nor statements regarding the purpose statement/subject matter). I'd only agree to the contents of the NDA and standard "you can't use my logo/branding in your statements, sites, etc". 6) Delete 'tangible'. Its pointless and splitting hairs that arent helpful (unjust return/destroy all CI). Under law, some definitions of intangible property, which could be CI, are patents, patent applications, and the ever elusive 'trade secrets'. Otherwise standard, agreeable language. 7) I refuse anything over 3-5 years on principle, unless we're talking a drug development cycle that needs something unique (usually 12 years). I suspect if you asked "why 7? what is the intent here?" they would say "its our standard template". It's in the disclosing parties "best interest" to enforce an NDA for as long as possible, something I don't allow in Academic NDAs with industry partners. Why the christ would you and Apple need 7 years on the "use and disclosure of" the confidential information of this purpose statement? 1 year is enough, if your just having a talk. NDAs can be extended, and trade secrets are preputial until they are no longer trade secrets. I would be good with this, if the duration was much shorter (or if you were engaging in a 3 year contract with Apple, then 3 years it is... why 7?). 8) Termination is good looking imo (your obligations to not share with the world all the Confidential Information you saw survives the agreement and is standard fare). I would say that non-terminating nature regarding the CI is normal, though the stupidly long agreement duration itself should be 6mo, 1yr-2yr at most, unless there is a compelling reason for longer agreement length. 9) Governing law is shit. There are only 3 acceptable situations imo for you. 1) Governing Law, Jurisdiction, and Venue in your home state, 2) Both parties agree to go silent (no governing law), or 3) Cross Venue (law, and jurisdiction) of the non-moving party (meaning in the defendants home state). Delaware might be an option for you though. I also don't accept arbitration or mediation because I work for a University, and anything that removes a Judge from making the final say is a problem for a State Agent. I see the value for non-State/Federal agents, though again, I might take issue with the venue in CA. And again, I don't like that they are scoping all of the arbitration process as CI. This might be normal, but again, I reject all arbitration and mediation in favor of Courts of law, which have clear language on what is and isnt in the public domain. Do with that what you will sir.
It would be very easy to compare original to the submitted and find it was modified. It would take gross incompetence on apples part for that to fly. I don't think they would fall for it.
As a retired IT employee, and developer, it would be very easy to automate and validate a returned documents for any changes. Hey, they caught Dan Rather of CBS news with falsified document's about President Bush's time in the national guard . He ran with it, got egg on his face, and had to retire, and some of his staff were fired. Yes there bureaucracy's in hugh corporations that things get lost or overlooked, they didn't get to be their size by letting things go by them without checking that ever I is dotted, and every t was crossed.
Make a sub company with one employee who signs the NDA. You can always close that company if the NDA is the deathtrap you think it is --- and share that AS FACT without breaking anything specifically covered in the NDA. P.S.: a heirless Apple hater on their deathbed will leak it all soon enough.
Never ever ever sign an NDA. If if you don't breach the NDA purposely, you might 1: breach it by accident or 2: say something that they take you to court for based on the NDA even if they won't win.
He doesn't even have to breach it by accident. All Apple needs to do is claim that he did. They have billions of dollars with which to abuse him through frivolous litigation. They would try to ruin him before he even gets his day in court.
@@duckpwnd that's what I meant by my second point. The NDA gives them an 'in' on which they can sue. They just need to find something tangentially related to whatever is covered by the NDA.
Ever since I started as an IT technician. I've always had issues with Apple. Mainly the warranties and being able to replace parts. But recently, it's been the allegations regarding the treatment of workers, in some of its suppliers factories. And if Apple does enough to police this. I'm sure there are many companies who also do not investigate enough.
Given that you have an excellent, well known, repair business and would not want to jeopardize that - in addition to your 2nd job as an advocate for the right to repair. You could do the following: 1. disassociate yourself from the business (aside from being the owner) 2. create a new representative for the business 3. new representative joins the apple repair program, signing the NDA, etc. I believe this would protect you in the sense that you would be able to still discuss Apple's failings (though without being privy to the program details), but allow your business to make use of specialized equipment or procedures necessary for the newer devices. This assumes that Apple's repair program is valuable, a positive and not a negative for your business. As you have pointed out, very hard to know given that all information is firewalled behind the NDA.
They'll send people down to trip you up and then sue you. You can't trust them, but I think you already know that. Not being able to talk about things driving you crazy is not going to make you less crazy.
F*** that for a joke! Suggestion: spin off a "Rossman Repair Group 3" sister company. Appoint a CEO you trust - not yourself - and then use RRG3 to do all the repairs that require the Apple specific stuff one can not access without this NDA/IRP program. RRG2 can contract out to RRG3, and you just ensure you never read the RRG3 NDA. Ownership could be a little tricky, but then, isn't that what shell companies are for? Isn't that how all the big boys play anyway? On second thought, better remove the "Rossman" name from your spin-off company entirely. Whatever you do, good luck!
First and I got to say, when I do my tech business, I will do an inverse of an NDA. A sort of open contract where open hardware, software and community all fuse together like a dragon ball character. Believe me. One day it will happen. 🎉
Unless you are working on your own hardware made in-house, I doubt you will be able to go without abiding by certain standards and pay/be paid for plenty of these corporations for various contracts or access to their property/software.
I've noticed a couple of loopholes. 1) "In this agreement, confidential information means ... regarding Company's interest in the IRP program (the 'purpose'). Confidential information also includes ... the possibility of Company becoming an IRP and ... this Agreement. -> Your interest and the possibility of you joining the IRP program is confidential, but not the information you'll receive from or via the IRP program. 2) Confidential information does not include information that ... or (iii) is rightfully received by Recipient ... without a duty of confidentiality. -> All information you've received up to and including this NDA is also not included under this NDA 3) For the avoidance of doubt ... confidential information does not include information about ... working conditions -> Anything that the IRP provides or does affects the conditions of your work and are therefor not confidential 4) Each party awknowledges that the other party may, currently or in the future, (i) make or use ... service, or technologies ... (ii) develop information ... or (iii) evaluate, invest in or do business with its competitors or potential competitors. Neither party's execution of this Agreement nor its receipt of any confidential information will restrict such activities -> If you so desire to use Google or some lobbying group or whatever against Apple or its IRP, this agreement cannot restrict such activities with this agreement. So basically, any information you've received until now and anything you would receive after this NDA is not considered confidential and this NDA cannot be used to stop you from using its information in e.g. YT videos or your RTR efforts.
Any contract can be edited by both parties, I would ask for a hard copy edit every "may not" by striking out the "not" sign it send it back. If they accept the modified contract you are obligated to follow it but being able to do all the things you want to do so meh. If they dont accept it then meh. There is a chance that someone messes up accidently or deliberately and your home free.
A few years ago I was looking to buy an internet phone. Either Apple or Samsung. I research how many times each company had be sued by Regulators and how they treat their customers. I bought Samsung and have not suffered any problems with my phone. I WILL NEVER buy an Apple product. Great video, Louis Thanks. Best wishes from Bangkok.
You know they're going to watch this video and close that loophole you mentioned. The merch looks great Louis! love the designs. Will definitely be picking a shirt up
It sounds like, if you sign it, it starts retroactively from the moment you received the nda. By publicly discussing the prior to signing the nda I could see them saying you broke the nda. 2. General rule: almost all time sensitive offers are scams. 3. If they were proud of what they were offering would they have you sign an nda or would they want the free advertising. 4. You might have more power than you think. If you don’t really need them they have no power over you. Negotiations may be in order.
Sounds a lot like there needs to be a right to repair bill in Delaware. Seeing as how it has the highest concentration of corporate headquarters in the country* and so many contacts are signed based on their laws out could be very useful.
Mercedes-Benz electric vehicle owners in North America who want a little more power and speed can now buy 60 horsepower for just $60 a month or, on other models, 80 horsepower for $90 a month. We don't own our stuff! TY, Louis for all you do!
A job I recently signed up has in its contract a clause where you agree to, for the rest of your life, not recommend the products of a competitor. I wonder how this would be enforced at all, if it’s not a first amendment violation. But I think it’s mostly there just to annoy you out of the thought of recommending a competitors product
Find a trustee, make her / him create a company next to you named "Not-Louis Rossmann Group", who can sign the NDA and give you parts of the proceeds. You forward customers that have possibly fixable devices to Not-Louis Rossman Group, which is right next door, who then can repair the device instead 💀
"Sure, you can barely fix our stuff. All you gotta do is stop telling people how much we suck."
What a deal!!
It's not even that. It's "do you want to find out if repair is allowed? all you have to do is lay your neck on this wooden block and close your eyes"
he will find out if he can repair after he signs it and might no longer be allowed to run his business, let alone his YT channel and RTR activism.
Don't you dare.
No. Just no.
How is Apple allowed to write such contract, this is a slavery contract , if the other party wants to raise a court against Apple they can't because they can't share any info, imagine a marriage contract which has the same conditions the husband can beat his wife but she can't share anything about it to any court until 10 years have passed, this is considered slavery and violation of freedom of speech.
Any agreement that expires in a day so you cant get proper legal counsel to look over it shouldnt be signed.
This. They're using legalese to manipulate constituents with FOMO/FUD.
Yup... the epitome of signing under duress.
One that is common and secondly it is only 3 pages and not crazy in its wording. I don’t agree with NDAs but nothing in there is outlandish. I would compare that to a preen-up it’s up to the person to decide if it is worth it based on the individual. Apple has a lot to lose so they make people that do business with them sign this.
Louis is a successful business man and does not require this program to pay the bills so it is not worth it to him. A new adult that wants to get into this type of work it would be an appealing option because it gives instant access to a large client base and possibly free training. Both of these things Louis does not need.
@@mikebalentine Just like with any "great offer if you sign up right now", if it's such a good deal, it will still be available tomorrow.
@@mikebalentine the fact that it's common doesn't mean it isn't manipulative. Secondly, the fact that it's three pages doesn't mean much. Legal contracts are made by, and for, lawyers. One should always have their attorney look over a contract before signing, or at least have the options to do so. This is especially important where there is a power imbalance, such as with a large company like apple and small independent repair shops.
> NDA says that you're not allowed to talk about the existance of said NDA
> NDA says you're allowed to talk about things that are publicly available and are common knowledge
> Louis Rossmann the Chad, posts the text of the entire NDA online
> The fact that you aren't allowed to talk about the NDA is now publicly available knowledge
> Everyone is now allowed to talk about having signed this NDA
Idk why, but this is by far the funniest loophole in all of this that I find
Your comment needs more upvotes
Nice!
It's not a valid loophole for 1 and maybe 2 reasons, but the proposition is amusing.
@@VndNvwYvvSvv Care to explain?
If I were running a similar business (after today) and Apple offered me the chance to join the program, the existence of this NDA would be prior knowledge. It already exists today and I just heard the text of it read publicly on UA-cam, so by its own terms, that information has been excluded from protection from disclosure.
If you'd previously signed the NDA, you still couldn't state that you have signed the NDA. You could talk about the NDA in the context of Louis sharing the details, but there'd be a breach if you starting referring to your own signed NDA.
The NDA is now public knowledge. This means that, according to the NDA, everyone can now talk about the NDA. You did a great service.
No no. It has to be prior knowledge to be allowed to talk about it so BEFORE you signed it. Which means people that signed before this video still can't say they have signed one or that it exists
They can’t say they have signed it but they can say it exists because it not a fault of their own that it is now public.
it is the NDA offered to Louis not the one offered to other repair shops.
@@avinashshaheed9597 There's a clause for info available to public
If you're really asking for an opinion: don't do it, they'll find a way to block you to talk about Apple repair altogether.
Yeah, I wouldn't sign that.
@@terasestHammasratas does that count even if he never signed it? just knowing that there is an offer for an NDA discloses you to not speaking about it before an agreement?
@@terasestHammasratas thats questionable at the least. It's an agreement. If one party didn't agree there is no deal. There ain't no automatic presumption of agreement neither.
@@terasestHammasratas no. He didn't sign it, so he didn't breach it, because he didn't agree to it.
I don’t even think its just about repair at that point
I have to applaud (and laugh at) the fact that a confidentiality agreement is like, "Hey, I know you haven't signed this yet, but don't share this agreement, it's confidential!"
Can they sue you for sharing it ? Even if you didn't sign it.
@@2nmingo no
Audacity.
@@2nmingo
You can sue everybody for everything.
It even contradicts itself, because it says you are allowed to talk about information known before you sign. So you should be able to talk about the contract even after signing it because you read it before signing.
Wait... They only gave you one day to review and sign a legal document? That right there would make me give it a pass.
If they don’t make you sign it the day you see it, then you can claim the contract itself was not included under the NDA…and you might be able to wiggle around it legally. Probably not, but I’m sure the reason they don’t give you more time is one that only helps them.
yup, don't sign. Never buy something or sign something when teh other party is pressuring you to do it.
Yup, never make legal decisions under duress.
@@LeeHawkinsPhoto wouldn't that type of contract offer be illegal though?
Yeah that in itself seems sus, as if they dont want you to take this crap pas your lawyer
The nature of this NDA is troubling and should be used as an example of what a manufacturer is not allowed to do. Looks like we need laws to make these types of NDA illegal.
The limits of what an NDA can do and for how long it remains in effect has never been fully defined and explored, that should trouble a lot of people.
its not legal.
We need enforcement of the laws, rather than lawyers collecting millions off of people desperately trying to prove they have "freedom"
Ohhhh boy. Ya'll haven't heard of National Security Letters, I see?
It's always funny when people think the pile of sand is bad but have no idea about the huge honking mountain range.
The U.S. _is_ a police state. FYI in case ya hadn't heard.
@@raythe9264 Read the actual law documents. U.S. law is legitimately worse than Russia and Chinuh. I'm _not_ joking. The only provision of The Constitution still fully intact is the 13th amendment, and that's because it's functionally useless for anyone who isn't a corporation. The 13th was ruled in court, many times over, to have no effect on indentured servitude because it defines a penal violation with no attached penalty and therefore one cannot collect civil claims. However, it does explicitly legalize for-profit incarceration.
@@ChrisWijtmans Freedom of speech is something people don't fully understand it seems.
Sure you are free to say whatever you want as long as it doesn't cause harm to others, but you also are not exempt from the consequences of what your words bring.
If you say things you agreed to keep secret that would damage a company / individual's reputation or income that could have consequences.
The intent of an NDA was to my knowledge, simply an agreement between parties as to what you were intending to not disclose and also what the consequences of failing to abide by it are/were.
Whether you believe in that or not is irrelevant, as long as its enforced by the judicial system, but as I said previously the length of the maximum term of an NDA and its limits haven't been properly defined by congress or the courts.
Well, you talked about this NDA, so if you sign it, you already breached it. So the answer is a resounding NO, do not sign it.
Technically he hasn't signed it yet, so he can't breach a contract he hasn't signed yet.
A no isn't enough. The only reasonable response for this impudence is a "Go f yourself!"
I don't think that's how this works. He can say he's been offered to sign an NDA before signing it, but if he does sign, he can no longer talk about anything. (Which would be a confirmation obviously) but doesn't make the contract impossible afaik.
Nah, why would he remove it, once it landed here it was publicly available and it was not his fault, since he has not signed yet., but I am not a layer so maybe it is his fault :D
The first rule of Fight Club has force of law.
Don't.
It'll probably immediately make you violate it for even having the Repair Wiki.
If they didn't disclose it to him then it can't be covered under the NDA, but they'd still try to make it stick.
is there a time limit on that nda ? hint: no, all they have to do is to make personally identifiable info on everything , which they can, and they will
Nope, the repair Wiki was public knowledge BEFORE he signed the agreement. Besides, the agreement is between RRG and Apple, and the wiki is handled by a non-profit. But, having said that, if he signs (and then becomes a certified IRS), neither him, nor any employee of RRG can publish anything in the wiki until after 7Years of agreement termination.
Don't forget him making this video would violate the NDA if he signs it
Not if that's published by a separate legal entity. Rossman Repair Group is not Louis Rossman
The program probably isn't very good if they need that NDA to prevent people from talking about it. I am not a lawyer but that is very broadly written, lots of catch all wording. Would not make for good youtube videos lol.
Yep!
Yeah. Also allows Apple leverage over you so a double red flag.
Only benefits Apple, I wouldn't do it.
Plus making a deal won't make issues disappear. Samsung and others follow Apple's footsteps as well.
As well it uses arbitration, which is for companies that have skeletons they want to keep hidden. At least in my observations.
I regularly need NDAs in my line of work. They don't need to be ridiculous. The bigger the company, the dafter they tend to be however. We always read every single line, and straight-up put lines through sections we have issues with. We will then go back to them and offer our NDA instead and tell them we will either use that or they can fix our found issues and we will check again. Most of the time we have no issues with this. On the odd occasion that the company gives us pushback, we wish them a good day and leave them to it. Amusingly, at that point, a surprising amount of them will suddenly do as we ask.
That is an astute way to handle this situation. On the other hand NDA, Non-Competes, and practically any Confidentiality Agreement must provide compensation to both parties to be valid. You can write the most eloquent contract, but if it doesn't have compensable vernacular, practically any legal counsel can squash the document. That's not to mean that a company like Apple would just give up at the first road block. They would of course exhaust all legitimate and more often than not illegitimate avenue of reciprocity until a magistrate put them on their heels and denied them any recourse. Even then companies like them are likely to be vindictive in any way possible.
@@bruceleealmighty The phrase to remember is "Vindictively Litigious." This is a legal term which, when presented, means the court has the obligation to evaluate the suing party's past behaviour in bringing actions which are deemed to be frivolous, untenable, or unsupported by law in order to bully the defending party. Be prepared to bring examples; they are usually not hard to find and the suing party's lawyer will hate you for it. 🙂
One other thing to remember is word 'or' does not preclude automatically 'and'. That is if someone asks if you want 'a','b', or 'c' it does not mean you must only pick one. You need a preceding clause to make that distinction. Examples:
"Please pick one of 'a','b', or 'c'." - You must choose one and only one.
"Please pick 'a','b', or 'c'" - You may pick zero or more without restriction.
Yes !! I'm proud of you !!! THAT'S how consumers SHOULD conduct business in ALL aspects ESPECIALLY with housing leases and rental agreements. I will not negotiate nor do business with ANY landlord or business that refuses to be fair. If they are serious about doing business they will cooperate with the consumer.
WHEN will americans get it through their block head -- a business can only exist by REPEAT consumer buying. If you stop buying they go out of business. WHEN will americans stop being weak and cowardly and stop letting corporations, hospitals and other business dictate service and product and even hours of operation. The consumer has the power to control product, service and hours of operation. People need to stop demanding stupid internet connected toys and it will stop subscription nonsense and they WILL be forced to change their wayward ways.
We usually have overarching NDAs with our partners
I've been asked to sign NDA's a couple of times. I make sure I read the damn thing thoroughly and ask questions and if there is a issue I disagree with I'll draw a line through, initial and date - then photocopy. You'd be surprised how many companies shit themselves when someone reads the NDA. I've refused on several occasions especially when a US company tries to get me to sign something in legal bullshitese, on one occasion it started with "By the authority of the court of Santa Clara County, California" I handed it back and told the rep 'This isn't even worth contempt, we're in Ireland which is a sovereign state, with it's own judicial system. Come back with a proper NDA.'
"And you agree to the terms and conditions, and any changes we may create, by breathing the air on any planet whereupon we operate, and accept these terms that you would laugh at if they were on a box of dog biscuits..."
Sir Terry Pratchett. Knighted by the queen of England for service to literature. As a knight, he made his own sword, throwing in a bit of meteorite (for the magic). And by f'ing English law, he couldn't carry his own f'ing sword.
Ing, ing, ing!
But did anyone come back with a proper NDA? I doubt it. Because what NDA really means is "Nobody Does Anything".
@@drewt1717 tell that to Uruha Rushia.
But then again, the NDA thing was just an excuse for them to backpedal from supporting her to straight up terminating her, so yeah. They don’t just do nothing, they use it as legal loophole to do whatever they want done.
They wouldnt want NDA under fair laws. They would have to worry about getting screwed. :D
I heard some things about Delaware and i think whatever laws they have there, it would be biased towards companies and not the people.
@@asakayosapro Leaking shit that you're not supposed to leak is never a good light to be in.
Them supporting her for possibly maybe having a boyfriend, vs "hey here's a bunch of confidential information in emails that nobody outside of the company I work for" isn't even a fruit and a fruit. It's like comparing apples and tires.
Here’s what I’ve learned in my 60 + years of existence. 1. There are no SMALL hills to die on.
If people aren’t willing to stand up for the small things it is a guarantee you won’t stand up for the big things. I’ve used your service several times when you were located in New York. ( I’m in SC) what I absolutely appreciate about you is your integrity. But that comes with a cost. ( I’m fully aware) stick to you guns, let the chips fall where they may. In other words act accordingly. You’ll always be able to hold your head up.
For what it’s worth , not much, you have my absolute respect.
Thank you
dale?
How is Apple allowed to write such contract, this is a slavery contract , if the other party wants to raise a court against Apple they can't because they can't share any info, imagine a marriage contract which has the same conditions the husband can beat his wife but she can't share anything about it to any court until 10 years have passed, this is considered slavery and violation of freedom of speech.
Me too. I am a very satisfied customer also. His business has Integrity. Something is not so common these days.
>let the chips fall
Nooooo not my PPCBUSG3HOT
Don't sign. If someone leaks NDA'd content and you publish it, I don't think you can get in trouble for hiding your source. But if you sign you are bound unless it's found unlawful.
We need someone to fall on the sword that has nothing to lose. Air all that dirty laundry
Well, I mean, by publish, publish meta data and indexed information, as opposed to documents that may be considered apples IP
Which determining if it is lawful or not will require either a court declaration in advance or some kind of "3rd party" arbitration which I use in quotes, because Apple's definitely going to make sure a "totally non-biased" arbitrator will be used.
That's why they're pushing to have arbitration done in state that is *not* the one whose laws they're invoking for the NDA
In court, if a piece of information is thrown out as evidence because it came from a document/source/etc that was obtained improperly, the exact same information can be introduced as evidence if they can show it from another, properly-obtained source.
It's possible that information subject to an NDA would fall under the same kind of thing.
@@slycordinator Seems kinda like a weird catch-22 on that
A good rule of thumb is never sign NDA's with any company that lobbies against right to repair.
Isn't it nice that it expires at the end of the day, pretty much leaving you with no possibility of consulting a lawyer. So nice of them to pressure someone into a NDA that expires in X hours
I’m confused what’s the nda between Louis and apple even doing there?
Yeah, I though that a bit dodgy too, lol!
I'm not even sure that's even legal.
I thought that you HAD to give someone AT LEAST 7 working days to go over any documentation and get back to you.
Never heard of something that expires in a mere 24 hours.
I smell bullshit...
@@TheMurlocKeeper Its a contract, they can be rather freeform. If it was a summon or something similar then youd be right about the response time
@@adamlynch9153 Louis applied to the IRP-Program as an April Fools, and apparently apple took it seriously xD
The link to the document expires, but not the document itself. It's guaranteed that if you ask Apple to resend a link to sign that document, they would oblige and send a new one. The point in gaining access to the document is to download it and put it in front of a lawyer. Apple understands this. They also understand that it is unlikely the first document link sent will be signed instantly.
They'd simply use the NDA to stop you from talking about Apple repair as a subject. Then they would probably ignore you and still not give you the tools you need to do the repairs you want to do.
My thoughts exactly.
Basically they asked Louis to hand them his balls on a platter.
Just goes to show how scummy these companies are
Yup, your absolutely correct!!
Good. I'm glad Louis was smart enough not to sign. Would you believe when I was working at big box pet store for a crappy part time job to get out of the house a few hours a week, the boss handed me a pen and told me I needed to sign an NDA? I was like wtf is that?! I had no clue.
Basically if I signed it, I could be fired and sued if I badmouthed them on social media or told everyone the truth about how badly the animals get treated there.
I video taped me burning my uniform until it melted into a gelatinous polyester liquid and posted it on Facebook and UA-cam and texted it to my boss when she asked me why I never showed up for work. Not worth all that for minimum wage, lol.
Just so you know, they could still fire you for badmouthing them, though they technically couldn't fire you for speaking any particular truths that can't be regarded as proprietary company secrets. Of course, they could fire you for anything else that may happen to be convenient. Our problem, as it always has been, is our economic and political system. It's a system which empowers an enriches employers and oppresses and exploits workers.
Best "I quit" ever
Too many people just sign whatever these days (we've been conditioned to it) so they get confused when someone refuses.
In most jurisdictions, they would not have been able to fire you for refusing to sign. Usually, if you had already been working there, there would need to be "fresh consideration" surrounding your continued employment there. For example, if they were giving you a promotion and more responsibilities. Or they were moving you to an area where you'd be learning something new about their business. In a sense, they would have to present you with "something new" about your job, something that would reasonably warrant new terms or conditions surrounding your employment. Merely saying, "sign this or else you can't continue working for us" alone is not "fresh consideration" about your job. It sounds like nothing about your job and duties changed, they merely wanted to gag your first amendment rights. Such an NDA would not be enforceable. They would of course be welcome to have new employees sign the NDA you mentioned, but you were already there on previously agreed to terms. In a sense, you were already under contract.
That said, it's not hard for an employer to just say, "please sign this, it won't have any impact on your job if you don't", wait a few months after you refuse to sign and then come up with a bogus reason to eliminate you or your job. However, if they do this with a number of people, the group could likely file a "wrongful termination" suit if they could prove that the business mostly only got rid of the people who didn't sign.
so u just resorted to polluting the world to stick it to the man.... great....
Only Rossman would discuss an NDA on his channel. Well done!
It's only an NDA when it is signed by both parties. Until then it's just a document containing words. DATA. Garbage in Garbage out.
I do enjoy this move though. It provides full disclosure, to absolutely any party. Much like Right to Repair is supposed to be all about.
@@bruceleealmighty Technically and lawfully yeah, but what he did would still attract someone's ire. While apple won't be able to legally destroy Rossman, there are tons of other ways to screw him up while still within the legal system. Apple is still a big company with a lot of connections after all. He probably won't attract the executive level, but the middle management/branch managers (Espc PR department) would get angry at him because it would reflect poorly on their career profile. His existence would mean the incompetency of not being able to handle someone like him.
The only real way Rossman could protect himself is to gain publicity and online evidence to protect himself. As long as Rossman still has a lot of netizens' support and attention, Apple won't be able to touch him as the cost would be too high to screw someone at his level. But once Rossman lost the internet protection, then things would start to get really shitty fast.
@@sleepypotato7183Already intimated thus.
@@sleepypotato7183 Apple has been trying to fuck over Rossmann for a long time now. He has been on their radar for years already. This changes nothing
As a matter of principle, I never sign NDA's, so my advice would be "no".
I definitely wouldn't sign an NDA that says I can't even discuss being under an NDA.
That's actually pretty ridiculous, and sounds like they got it from a certain movie: "The first rule of our NDA is that you don't talk about our NDA".
Court Battle Club
i signed a NDA once, it was a nice one though so it only covered the "personal information" part of the job in general.. it was a few guff there like not giving out boss phone number and such aswell.. but i was all good with telling people that i have signed a NDA and what i have to follow.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Nice one!!
Edit: But Now I’m picturing Louis as Tyler Durden 😳😳😬🥴🥴
I remember I signed one such NDA saying I couldn't even mention the NDA. It was entirely unenforceable and it was on a single sheet of paper. It looked like they hastily threw something together without consulting a lawyer.
This happens a lot with the big companies.
I remember the story of CPM(I believe) and IBM where some IBM Execs came to the home of CPM's founder who wanted to implement it in their systems.
according to the story CPM guy fluffed them off, going out on his boat and just partying like usual and not caring about the IBM guys, and when the IBM guys came to his home and he wasn't there, they tried to force his wife to Sign on NDA stating that she cannot disclose they were ever there. Apparently it was a big issue that arose, but I'm not sure of all the specifics.
Either way these companies have a lot to lose with some things, so their NDAs are crazy.
It always baffles me how these types of corporate bullying is NOT illegal.
They really get away with too much
These corporations are the ones that, through lobbying "activities", help the lawmakers see the benefit of allowing stuff like this.
Corporations pay the real taxes, hence they are allowed to write the laws. Payroll taxes won't cover crap. A government is like a kid in a candy shop - it will do anything for extra candy. ANYTHING. Just look at the city of Detroit.
@@ihavenoson3384 What of Detroit are you referencing? I've never been there or hear much from there. So I genuinely am curious as to what stands out about Detroit with respect to this topic.
@@anthonynelson6671 The city of Detroit from 1950 to 2013, culminating to a chapter 9 bankruptcy that terminated 7 billion USD of debt. The city has a long history of mismanagement corruption. "July 1992 / Moody's cuts Detroit's debt rating to junk status." 'Two city workers' pension plans had for nearly 25 years been paying out "13th month" checks.'
That allegedly is mostly because after the freeway / highway systems were built, the business was no longer trapped there and moved into the suburbs to utilize the commuting options. The city allegedly reacted by raising taxes across the board, especially property taxes, which caused a lot of business and workers to leave the city. This culture of worsening overtaxing continues to this day. A city of 1.8 million population in 1950 is now under 700k.
"Detroiters have a painful history with overtaxation, having been overtaxed to the tune of $600 million between 2010 and 2016 alone."
They had at least whole year and best lawyers to prepare the NDA and the contract, while they give you just 24 hours to check it. That's sick.
They just try to screw him over. Always worth a shot.
"Best-paid lawyer" does not automatically mean "best lawyer".
@@omsi-fanmark if they are expensive is because they are top lawyer, although why people would pay a lot of money to them. Of course there can be a lot of cheaper lawyer that can do their exact and maybe better work
Such a short timeline on any contract basically means they don't want you to be able to consult with legal assistance.
It's a hell of a red flag.
@@Stewie4238 Having a high pricetag doesn't necessarily mean that someone has valued them at that price. They might have recently raised their prices, or worse, they might have only ever gotten customers by using their pricetag as evidence of competence.
It's a classic problem in free markets... normally, the market pressures sellers to provide a good service at a low price. If someone is managing to stay in the market with a high price, then they're probably compensating for that high price with a _very_ good service. However, if customers use that fact as a heuristic for determining which services are good, then the entire mechanism breaks down, and sellers are incentivized to have a high price regardless of service quality.
Written and signed a few NDAs in the course of my businesses and there are some immediate and obvious red flags with this one. The time crunch, the lack of openness whatsoever, and complete control without flexibility all sounds like nopes from me. I'd pass! Good on you, Louis!
DON'T DO IT !
They're just waiting for you to blurt out just one or two wrong words to sue your ass into oblivion. Please Louis, don't fall for this.
Louis is successful, but even he would be a rounding error in terms of the amount of money Apple could/would get out of him.
@@gingercat7925 It's not about making a profit off suing Louis, it's about silencing one of the biggest voices against their shitty practices forever, which in itself is an incalculable profit.
FINISH HIM! XD
Don't do business with the people you do not trust. Apple has a lot of powerful lawyer looking for loop holes to get y. once you sign the NDA it will be worse.
@@abdc2990 ^this
when you normally sign an NDA, you get something clearly defined in return. but when it's unclear what you'll be getting in exchange, the odds clearly tip in their favor, and signing this contract becomes more like turning a blind corner at 120mph. these kinds of contracts should really be legally questionable.
Well. They had to try, right?
@@heyhoe168 they mustn’t dare to, but governments ain’t breathing down their necks for it so yea
Seems like a lack of full disclosure.
the non legal term is a "lootbox" you buy the lootbox and have no clue what you get in return. So you can look at it as a lootbox agreement.
Apple wont be playing nice with louis if he sign it, they would force louis to burn down hes company to remove all "not approved" documents and information. Or force luis to accept a apple zombie as hes boss.
Any NDA without comparable "considerstion" is legally void. Jimmy John's actually got sued for a similar NDA & non-compete they tried to enforce in minimum wage employees and settled for almost 2 million dollars in a class action.
7 years is a long time after termination ....
A previous job I worked, my supervisor said "HR isn't there to protect employees, it's there to protect the company"
I approach most contracts with skepticism. Most places are shocked I actually read them 🤣
I recently had a NDA expire from my student days, 10 years.
Granted it was a sort of R&D company and the tech could be disruptive.
Edit.
My current job has a weird NDA, which is active from the time of signing, not termination of employment.
I have not signed a single work contract without making amendments and having them signed off. You're not wrong about it shocking people :-P
Are they usually long?
@@krazed0451 we can write amendments?????
@@krazed0451 This. Dont just read, strike off certain things that are total bullshit in the contracts.
While most of tech UA-camrs are licking Apple’s boots, you're speaking in our favor. Really appreciate that.
The only solution to such nda agreements, is dumping the internal details on War thunder/Minecraft discord servers.
Duh!
Louis Shaker Central
That NDA is basically a soft Gag order. Louis don’t do it and stick to your principles. It is your videos and creative genius that is why we are all here and why i can even open a device and fix it. Thank you Louis and stay strong stay yourself.
A Gag order that Louis self signs into, and agrees with whatever Apple wants Louis to do. What a deal, and without getting a dime. LOL.
By posting this video he had already made his choice. Ofc he wouldn't sign the NDA. Apple can kiss his fanni
@@kevinmeganck1302 "Taking it in slowly from Apple"
I went through this process up to this NDA part a few years ago, it's the same NDA you advised me not to sign. After reading it a few more times, I'm happy I did not sign it. It's not worth it.
Hire a subcontractor to sign the NDA. They can then sell you services related to the NDA tools without disclosing any information to you. They'll be able to calibrate the angle sensor for you without you being subject to the NDA. As a bonus you will be able to figure out what tools are available based on what services they can provide.
Honestly, this looks like a way to screw over independent repair by tying their hands while giving the repair store very little in return.
Correction: "...while giving the repair store NOTHING in return."
Repair tech here: I can't say much more than "you are correct"
I think I can safely say that anyway
How is Apple allowed to write such contract, this is a slavery contract , if the other party wants to raise a court against Apple they can't because they can't share any info, imagine a marriage contract which has the same conditions the husband can beat his wife but she can't share anything about it to any court until 10 years have passed, this is considered slavery and violation of freedom of speech.
When it comes to NDA there are three things I look for before considering signing. 1) does it end? No end date leaves you vulnerable for anything you " Leak " in your old age 2) is there an ' out ' letting you off the hook due to time, payment, termination of the agreement that needed the the NDA plus 5 ( a reasonable number of years, not necessarily 5 ) years. 3) if you ' whistle blow ' that it is basically a pile of doo-doo you can't say ' cow pie ' about it. No end date, keeps them up to Bull activities and until the world blows up plus 5 years is a big red flag to post the NDA publicly and show that they are not actually following any ' right to repair '.
Appreciate your wordsmith abilities!!!!!
No, don't sign any NDA.
They will get everything from you for the next amount of xxx years.
This NDA is silly. I wouldn’t say any. I do NDAs with my clients all the time. I do R&D and process development. It’s standard and perfectly reasonable in my world. There are non-competes too. Take a current client for example. I’m developing a drug and drug delivery system for his company. I’m forbidden from working on similar drugs for any competitors for the next 3 years. It’s no biggie though. I can do semiconductors or energy or a bunch of other stuff for a while… or spite him by taking my knowledge elsewhere if he doesn’t pay. lol
@@EnthalpyAndEntropy Louis doesn't work for Apple, no reason to sign.
@@SoloRenegade I get that. But numb nuts up there said not to sign one ever. That’s just stupid.
@@EnthalpyAndEntropy in this situation, he's 100% right. Louis has nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Louis is not a contractor nor employee of Apple and is under no obligation nor has any need to sign one.
I work in the computer industry and we use NDA's as well, to protect R&D proprietary properly, but nothing more. We don't use it to go after youtubers.
@@SoloRenegade yes, but you understand English, right? You know that any NDA is very different from this NDA, right?
Tbh I'm surprised that I'm surprised by this... The crippling software game in use today, that removes functionality over time... and companies preventing repairs of their products are disgusting! You know the answer :) keep up the fight mate!
Apple higher ups would have an impromptu party if they found out that Louis signed this.
😂
for real lol.
We got him and Clinton !
@@NathanaelCrapo I am laughing, but what I typed was not a joke, It is 100% my genuine opinion.
So yes, for real indeed.
@@monsterhunter445 Gotta make the cat sign NDA too or else Clinton can talk on Louis' behalf!
Then again Clinton might count as staff since he appears in videos, and any staff or associates or business partners were covered under the catch all BS in there.
Sometimes a big company will just assume you signed the NDA without actually ever verifying that you did. Just try to go forward without it and see what happens.
Reminiscent of Kevin Smith talking about Prince World because he never signed.
I remember playing flash games back when I was like 7 and they asked me if I was over 18. I, as an honest kid, would always press "no", but a lot of games just went ahead and played with no censorship. It's surprising how often buttons on web apps are completely useless.
Could make someone else "The Owner" of Rossmann repair group and make them sign this.
That's hilarious and likely true.
It was an E-sign thing that he has to sign to even access the program
For anyone reading this; A common trick among these types of vultures, lawyers etc, is to make you signa an binding agreement in a rush. Never sign anything when they don't give you ample time to think about it properly.
It's a trick to get you nervous about the time constraint and make you think; "what if? I might loose out on this deal if I don't sign now". When you are nervous you generally get confused, but the use of such cheap tricks only shows that they are in an disadvantage.
Fun fact: Third party arbitration is used to protect Apple from potentially expensive class action lawsuits, and allows them to choose an arbitrator which will rule in their favor 100% of the time. There are people who had their primary source of income terminated by Patreon for no good reason other than that certain people at Patreon decided they did not like those people, they basically seized the money in their account, and when they tried to sue Patreon to get their money back and possibly get their accounts reinstated, the third party arbitrator pulled some insane bullshit to basically refuse them any recourse unless they were willing to spend insane amounts of money on lawyers. The arbitrators unilaterally declared things like "we have decided you're actually a corporation not a person, so we're going to require you to hire a team of corporate lawyers to defend yourself", etc.
Citation needed. Interested if there's any (non hearsay) evidence of Patreon doing such things.
Just be careful with anything that imposes a false time constraint, it's usually not in your best interest. Such tactics are usually used when they don't want your lawyer reviewing it and telling you about whatever problems are hidden in there.
True. I once declined a job offer from a company that tried to delay showing me the contract until my first day on the job. I insisted to be shown at least a non-signed draft in advance. When I received it, the draft was full of unreasonable constraints. No one with a brain would have signed such a document, unless they were pressured into it. To give this anecdote a nice finishing touch: The company was a subcontractor of the German Federal Government.
At my work place, we were reaching out to a new company for services. They asked us to sign their NDA. Being a public agency that we were, it was easier to have them sign our NDA instead. We offered a counter sign NDA document. Basically, we both just stood still. Maybe you can offer your counter sign NDA to Apple, with a one liner bull crap agreement.
Unfathomably BASED.
@@anonded True, but money always wins in the US. Everywhere else (mostly), only FEAR is needed when poverty is only a week away.
You can do that but Apple gains nothing from having you on the program. In fact, they'd probably prefer for this program to not exist at all.
They won't sign anything but this document which gives them complete control.
They know that their blanket NDA contract would be illegal in Delaware, that's why they have to explicitly write that in - to reassure themselves and to confuse the other party. It would also be illegal in many countries outside the US because an NDA that was signed without showing you the rest of the contract first will automatically become voided if you reject the other contract.
Great video Louis. I also got offered a job once for which I had to sign an NDA before getting any information about what it actually meant. This is an abusive practice and should not be accepted as such.
Louis should do a collab with one of the "legal" channels to go over the NDA (and because he's loaded now , he might even pay them with legal tender as opposed to the , much coveted, *eXpoSure* ). Considering some of the clauses , they might not even be legally binding/enforceable
i don't really do collaborations
How is Apple allowed to write such contract, this is a slavery contract , if the other party wants to raise a court against Apple they can't because they can't share any info, imagine a marriage contract which has the same conditions the husband can beat his wife but she can't share anything about it to any court until 10 years have passed, this is considered slavery and violation of freedom of speech.
@@rossmanngroup I understand the allergy to collabs as a marketing tool (so maybe it should be called something else) but it really is vital for the spreading of ideas. As sad as it may be, getting on Joe Rogan Experience and explaining the fuckery that companies engage in to disrupt our basic rights is the best way (in my estimation) to address this issue. I read you as a humble man who would wince at the exposure, but I would love to see that.
P.S. Thank you
@@rossmanngroup *linus wants to know your location
@@rossmanngroup You should really change your mind on that Louis, You're brilliant and we wanna see you on other platforms; doesn't have to be this legal bullshit but you were great on LTT and CBC dude what the fuck come on
Not being allowed to say you’ve signed an NDA is a hard pass right from the start.
NO, DO NOT cull yourself, and your potential ability to point something out to us that you feel we should know. Your voice is more important than that. Also, thank you for all you do. You sir, have my respect.
What I would do is take the NDA to your lawyer and have him adjust it a little, sign it, and send it back.
They are a HUGE company and may not notice but even if they do your not out anything.
Rule #1. Any short deadline on signing is evidence an agreement is bad for you. They gave you a short artificial deadline as a tactic to limit your ability to think.
#2. No powerful person or corporation ever EVER offers you anything good unless they absolutely have to.
#3. It is not a good idea to sign any non-disclosure agreement of any kind when you’re in the business of disclosing things.
Rule #0: if you sign anything of significance, write the agreement yourself and have them sign it.
Would #2 apply to you if you became powerful?
@@MiantNo. I will be the first-ever powerful entity to offer you something good just because I am so very nice. That’s the kind of guy I am. You can sign my “agreement” in advance of that day.
@@parkloqi Rules 1 and 3 are things I agree with you on, and off the top of my head, I can't think of a case where 0 could ever be a bad idea.
I certainly don't offer things to anyone unless I'm getting something out of it, even if that something is information gotten from seeing how they act differently in reaction to and result from the gift.
An exception to this being the people I trust most, and that's a very short list, let me tell you.
You may think that those are the people that'll screw you over faster than anyone, but this is only true for those with near-zero emotional awareness, people that can't pick up on vocal cues, body language, etc., and thus wind up treating those people horribly, oftentimes without meaning to. This skill will also heighten your ability to know *who* to trust.
To those with an abundance of both power and empathy, it often feels the best course to appear cold to the public so as to avoid the parasites of the world, those lazy bloodsuckers that self-righteously demand that you give all you possess to them simply because their laziness and idiocy prevents them from earning it for themselves, and should you refuse, not only will they accuse you of selfishness for your unwillingness to cater to theirs, they'll smear your name to all who will listen. And by the time it gets to that extraordinarily gullible friend or lover of the person in question with power and empathy, the negatives of the story will be amplified, and a handful of others thrown in.
Okay, maybe my rule #2 was a bit overstated. I meant to say,
#2 The Apple corporation is now full-psychopath and will go out of its way to harm anyone within reach, unless it first becomes clear to them there’s a substantial upside in not committing any particular atrocity.
Apple wants you to sign an NDA. Remember, "Schematics or die."
Don't give them an inch. Your voice is too valuable.
Provision of schematics with every sale should be mandatory, the argument being that lack of provision is an implicit admission of unreliability, contravening public safety.
Information can be, like flight, dangerous, and require safety rules. 👀
I have signed, and written, quite a few NDAs in my time, including one with Apple (not the worst I came across by far). I'm not a lawyer, and I always had a legal team review anything I put my signature to. I would recommend you do the same.
Also - I probably wouldn't sign that agreement - it's a long way off "Mutual protection"
it overall seems like them wanting to be able to control what he can talk about, they can just make up something that is suddenly now "protected information" under such a wide blanket statement and prevent him from speaking up about
You might have broken that nda right there if that existence clause was in it
As an information management consultant (ret.), I negotiated large purchase agreements. The Apple "mutual" NDA is particularly absurd considering that this company was initially built with tiny, owner-operated dealerships. This agreement reminds me of a multi-million dollar purchase agreement for which IBM's only obligation was to deliver crates to a loading dock labeled with the word "Computer." No implied or expressed warrantee as to the crate's contents or usability.
It's basically just a gag order and getting bent over by Apple, in exchange for a few parts, I wouldn't have signed either.
No. It's a gag order in exchange for the privilege of finding you *if* you get a few parts.
Don't do it. You're the kind of person who needs to speak their mind and this will shackle you.
I wouldn't mind at all if you did because I think if you learn anything useful you'd make good decisions based on that information.
But I ultimately believe speaking your mind is more valuable.
SO you need to sue apple and request discovery, to find out everyone who signed this, and then ask as part of the discovery for them to talk about this program. Edit: And it probably needs to be a class-action lawsuit.
The irony is that if he DID sign the NDA, he'd be obligated to go through their hand-picked "third-party" arbitrator to "settle" any such disputes. Patreon vs Lauren Southern proved how bullshit these arbitrators are.
Louis wants to help people and fix devices but is literally being blocked to fixing certain devices. This would help reduce e-waste, save customers money by repairing these devices and create more jobs to repair these devices. Keep up the great work Louis, you are doing everything you can to make a change.
Thank you for sharing, this is amazing. What a dystopian world we are living in.
This document should be use to wipe ourselfs after a trip to the toilet, on a more serious note this contract seems so shady. I wonder if this could be used to start some sort of investigation into this program. There's so much BS in there it kinda scares me (not really but...) I would like to hear more from a law side, there has to be a loop hole we can exploit against this "Contract".
Edit: I forgot to thank you Louis for sharing this!
You know the correct answer, Louis.
Looking forward to the video where you describe the specific F off method.
I gave up on NDA's looooong ago.
Defeating the NDA: Do a charitable good deed by hiring a bum with no assets, esp a terminal one that just needs his remaining time made comfortable. Bum signs the NDA & all contracts in their own name, get the full works, then set up a disclosure trigger, whereby unless Bum actively resets the disclosure clock… so a week after his passing… everything becomes public and as he has no assets or estate… there are no assets and he’s dead so there’s nothing to to sue for, and no one to sue😂
Any lawyers in Louis’ club that can see any gaps in this?
From what I'm gathering, you even reading about this NDA on your UA-cam channel... violates the NDA that you haven't signed yet
No.
The only answer they deserve.
Hey Louis =) I'm a portuguese silent supporter. Please keep going with your important mission and sh*t on that NDA. I truly believe that your actions will have consequences here in Europe, in the long term, one way or another. Keep going bro, be strong
Deve haver mais portugueses por aqui. Isso é bom.
@@clorofilaazul há sim =) infelizmente não consigo apoiar o Louis financeiramente mas estou bastante atento a esta luta dele, que já anda um pouco a ser a nossa aqui em Portugal. Um abraço
Section 3 is lawyer-speak for, "You are free to continue discussing your wages, hours, and working conditions as required by the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)". Yeahhhh, they made that law NDA-proof. And if any employer ever tells you that you can't discuss how much you make with your other employees, immediately turn around and shout how much you make and your job title. THAT is to get you out from under the at-will employment laws. "Oh, you were laid off? That's allowed. OH you were fired immediately after telling your coworkers how much you make in response to the email management sent illegally telling you you could not talk about your wages? Well I guess your former employer has a room temperature IQ and a six-figure fine coming their way!""
Did I understand correctly that you can discuss information that has already been made public by a third party? If so, it would be a shame if someone were to leak all proprietary info, thus allowing anyone under this nda to speak freely about anything regarding the program.
This is what I call a "Smother" contract, where you will be muzzled, and everything is to their advantage. Tread lightly Louis!
Nah man, I'd say tread heavily... on their nutsacks.
That NDA is probably OK for other people to sign, but if they get your signature on an NDA, I reckon it could be used as leverage to quiet you in the future.
Do remember that you can strike through (single line) and / or re-write anything in a document that you sign. If you make changes to the agreement, it's up to them to sign off on the changes. This isn't some ToS where you only have the option of hitting Agree or Disagree. The law is also not written in stone, it is very much up to interpenetration.
I didn’t know that! Thank you
I'm sure you meant interpretation rather than interpenetration, but that's got to be the most hilarious auto correct I've ever seen 😂
I wanted to make a comment while watching this video about "they want you to be their slave to exchange for nothing", but you make the same conclusion as me at the end of the video. I'm glad you did. You're a man with respect and it's cost a lot, but not this shitty contract. Good job👍.
I'm glad you get to show the shadow side of their IRP by going through their process to this point.
Apple asking you to sign an NDA is like Willie Wonka asking you to say you can never taste, touch, smell, touch, record, or even comment on its candy during or after a tour of his factory.
NDA its all about the patents. We need more Jack Teixeira type people leaking company patents to the public.
@@blogdesign7126 but patents are publically avaivaible?
@@blogdesign7126 "I have no idea how patents work and I have loud opinions about it", there, fixed it for you!
@@blogdesign7126 I think you might mean trade secrets
@@Aquatarkus96 True Too.
I negotiate NDAs (MTAs, DUAs, Teaming Agreements, etc) for a living. If you care, here is a lot of comments.
1) Mutual NDA assumes both parties may be discloser or receiver. This could be preference, but take care what you disclose.
2) I always make effective the date of last signature, unless back dating is necessary because someone was on a site with Confidential Information (CI) at a prior meeting (it happens).
3) I would reject that CI definition (I recommend looking at major Universities definitions of CI, but in general, it should be far more rigid than "anything", include clear markings when applicable, and if verbal or visual, reduced to writing later and so marked. In addition, as I work for a major research public university, I cannot agree to keep confidential that such an agreement exists, I can only agree to keep confidential the particulars.
4) I execute a couple hundred NDAs a year with industy, other universities, other countries, federal, etc. 2 and 3 look like very standard language. That 1-2-3 list of exclusions is normal (usually ranging between the same 3-6 exclusions you'd see when googling. I see section 3 a lot in reference to Open Record Acts and the like. Basically the NDA will not protect CI if a lawful order (deposition, Open Records Act, etc) requires the disclosure and the disclosing party complying with said order is not in breach of the NDA. Regarding whether "does the NDA prohibit me from discussing the purpose of the NDA if said purpose later becomes unlawful?" I would suggest legal counsel, but in general I would guess no (or that you'd have a hard time deciding later that something you both signed and agreed was confidential information was suddenly (and unilaterally) not confidential. Sorry I cant help more here.
5) Section 5. I don't accept gag orders or prior approvals that may be withheld indefinitely, though I would say industry considers it standard in commercialization. I do not see the benefit to you in agreeing to section 5 as written (again, I would, at most, agree to keep confidential the contents of the NDA upon signing, but neither that such an agreement exists nor statements regarding the purpose statement/subject matter). I'd only agree to the contents of the NDA and standard "you can't use my logo/branding in your statements, sites, etc".
6) Delete 'tangible'. Its pointless and splitting hairs that arent helpful (unjust return/destroy all CI). Under law, some definitions of intangible property, which could be CI, are patents, patent applications, and the ever elusive 'trade secrets'. Otherwise standard, agreeable language.
7) I refuse anything over 3-5 years on principle, unless we're talking a drug development cycle that needs something unique (usually 12 years). I suspect if you asked "why 7? what is the intent here?" they would say "its our standard template". It's in the disclosing parties "best interest" to enforce an NDA for as long as possible, something I don't allow in Academic NDAs with industry partners. Why the christ would you and Apple need 7 years on the "use and disclosure of" the confidential information of this purpose statement? 1 year is enough, if your just having a talk. NDAs can be extended, and trade secrets are preputial until they are no longer trade secrets. I would be good with this, if the duration was much shorter (or if you were engaging in a 3 year contract with Apple, then 3 years it is... why 7?).
8) Termination is good looking imo (your obligations to not share with the world all the Confidential Information you saw survives the agreement and is standard fare). I would say that non-terminating nature regarding the CI is normal, though the stupidly long agreement duration itself should be 6mo, 1yr-2yr at most, unless there is a compelling reason for longer agreement length.
9) Governing law is shit. There are only 3 acceptable situations imo for you. 1) Governing Law, Jurisdiction, and Venue in your home state, 2) Both parties agree to go silent (no governing law), or 3) Cross Venue (law, and jurisdiction) of the non-moving party (meaning in the defendants home state). Delaware might be an option for you though. I also don't accept arbitration or mediation because I work for a University, and anything that removes a Judge from making the final say is a problem for a State Agent. I see the value for non-State/Federal agents, though again, I might take issue with the venue in CA. And again, I don't like that they are scoping all of the arbitration process as CI. This might be normal, but again, I reject all arbitration and mediation in favor of Courts of law, which have clear language on what is and isnt in the public domain.
Do with that what you will sir.
Definitely do not sign an NDA unless they work with you on edits. If they expect you to sign theirs without edits that’s not a good idea.
You should make a modified copy that does allow you to disclose information and sign and send that back. Maybe it would slip through.
If Apple's bureaucracy is anything like NYC's, it might actually work
It would be very easy to compare original to the submitted and find it was modified. It would take gross incompetence on apples part for that to fly. I don't think they would fall for it.
@@jeromemuller962 Mate big tech gets hacked a lot due to negligence on their part so odds of them actually falling for it are high
@@jeromemuller962 you'd be amazed at how things work in big business lol
As a retired IT employee, and developer, it would be very easy to automate and validate a returned documents for any changes. Hey, they caught Dan Rather of CBS news with falsified document's about President Bush's time in the national guard . He ran with it, got egg on his face, and had to retire, and some of his staff were fired. Yes there bureaucracy's in hugh corporations that things get lost or overlooked, they didn't get to be their size by letting things go by them without checking that ever I is dotted, and every t was crossed.
Make a sub company with one employee who signs the NDA.
You can always close that company if the NDA is the deathtrap you think it is --- and share that AS FACT without breaking anything specifically covered in the NDA.
P.S.: a heirless Apple hater on their deathbed will leak it all soon enough.
Thanks for all your hard work fighting these morons and exposing the stupidity done to everyone unknowingly! SHAMEFUL
Never ever ever sign an NDA. If if you don't breach the NDA purposely, you might 1: breach it by accident or 2: say something that they take you to court for based on the NDA even if they won't win.
He doesn't even have to breach it by accident. All Apple needs to do is claim that he did. They have billions of dollars with which to abuse him through frivolous litigation. They would try to ruin him before he even gets his day in court.
@@duckpwnd that's what I meant by my second point. The NDA gives them an 'in' on which they can sue. They just need to find something tangentially related to whatever is covered by the NDA.
Ever since I started as an IT technician. I've always had issues with Apple. Mainly the warranties and being able to replace parts. But recently, it's been the allegations regarding the treatment of workers, in some of its suppliers factories. And if Apple does enough to police this. I'm sure there are many companies who also do not investigate enough.
Given that you have an excellent, well known, repair business and would not want to jeopardize that - in addition to your 2nd job as an advocate for the right to repair. You could do the following:
1. disassociate yourself from the business (aside from being the owner)
2. create a new representative for the business
3. new representative joins the apple repair program, signing the NDA, etc.
I believe this would protect you in the sense that you would be able to still discuss Apple's failings (though without being privy to the program details), but allow your business to make use of specialized equipment or procedures necessary for the newer devices.
This assumes that Apple's repair program is valuable, a positive and not a negative for your business. As you have pointed out, very hard to know given that all information is firewalled behind the NDA.
Louis isn’t the hero we thought we wanted, but is absolutely the hero we needed
💪🏽😎
They'll send people down to trip you up and then sue you. You can't trust them, but I think you already know that. Not being able to talk about things driving you crazy is not going to make you less crazy.
F*** that for a joke!
Suggestion: spin off a "Rossman Repair Group 3" sister company. Appoint a CEO you trust - not yourself - and then use RRG3 to do all the repairs that require the Apple specific stuff one can not access without this NDA/IRP program. RRG2 can contract out to RRG3, and you just ensure you never read the RRG3 NDA. Ownership could be a little tricky, but then, isn't that what shell companies are for? Isn't that how all the big boys play anyway? On second thought, better remove the "Rossman" name from your spin-off company entirely.
Whatever you do, good luck!
First and I got to say, when I do my tech business, I will do an inverse of an NDA.
A sort of open contract where open hardware, software and community all fuse together like a dragon ball character. Believe me. One day it will happen. 🎉
If you do, apply for a FUTO grant. This is exactly what they're looking for.
Do it!!!
Sort of like Copyleft
Unless you are working on your own hardware made in-house, I doubt you will be able to go without abiding by certain standards and pay/be paid for plenty of these corporations for various contracts or access to their property/software.
That's just the GPL
You'll need at the very least 48 hours for your lawyer to look it over. One week would be ideal. A 24-hour NDA is a BIG red flag.
I've noticed a couple of loopholes.
1) "In this agreement, confidential information means ... regarding Company's interest in the IRP program (the 'purpose'). Confidential information also includes ... the possibility of Company becoming an IRP and ... this Agreement. -> Your interest and the possibility of you joining the IRP program is confidential, but not the information you'll receive from or via the IRP program.
2) Confidential information does not include information that ... or (iii) is rightfully received by Recipient ... without a duty of confidentiality. -> All information you've received up to and including this NDA is also not included under this NDA
3) For the avoidance of doubt ... confidential information does not include information about ... working conditions -> Anything that the IRP provides or does affects the conditions of your work and are therefor not confidential
4) Each party awknowledges that the other party may, currently or in the future, (i) make or use ... service, or technologies ... (ii) develop information ... or (iii) evaluate, invest in or do business with its competitors or potential competitors. Neither party's execution of this Agreement nor its receipt of any confidential information will restrict such activities -> If you so desire to use Google or some lobbying group or whatever against Apple or its IRP, this agreement cannot restrict such activities with this agreement.
So basically, any information you've received until now and anything you would receive after this NDA is not considered confidential and this NDA cannot be used to stop you from using its information in e.g. YT videos or your RTR efforts.
Now to convince a judge of this when you opponent has a legal team with the budget of a small nation's GDP.
@@Kraligor For having a legal team with the budget of a small nation's GDP, the NDA was written shockingly amateurish
Any contract can be edited by both parties, I would ask for a hard copy edit every "may not" by striking out the "not" sign it send it back. If they accept the modified contract you are obligated to follow it but being able to do all the things you want to do so meh. If they dont accept it then meh. There is a chance that someone messes up accidently or deliberately and your home free.
@@mf_rat
I'm pretty sure that is common courtesy, but I suppose that is what email is for
Seems like they had you in mind when they drew up that NDA, LOL! Keep it real Louis!
A few years ago I was looking to buy an internet phone. Either Apple or Samsung. I research how many times each company had be sued by Regulators and how they treat their customers. I bought Samsung and have not suffered any problems with my phone. I WILL NEVER buy an Apple product. Great video, Louis Thanks. Best wishes from Bangkok.
You know they're going to watch this video and close that loophole you mentioned.
The merch looks great Louis! love the designs. Will definitely be picking a shirt up
It sounds like, if you sign it, it starts retroactively from the moment you received the nda. By publicly discussing the prior to signing the nda I could see them saying you broke the nda.
2. General rule: almost all time sensitive offers are scams.
3. If they were proud of what they were offering would they have you sign an nda or would they want the free advertising.
4. You might have more power than you think. If you don’t really need them they have no power over you. Negotiations may be in order.
Everyone should hear this. If for no other reason, to know how companies think.
Excellent video.
Can you imagine the look on Apple's face looking at this NDA info being read in this post!😅😅😅😅😅 The sound you hear is their heads exploding!!!!😂😂😂😂😂
Sounds a lot like there needs to be a right to repair bill in Delaware. Seeing as how it has the highest concentration of corporate headquarters in the country* and so many contacts are signed based on their laws out could be very useful.
Delaware is the corporate home to Du Pont, and some oil refinerys
Mercedes-Benz electric vehicle owners in North America who want a little more power and speed can now buy 60 horsepower for just $60 a month or, on other models, 80 horsepower for $90 a month. We don't own our stuff! TY, Louis for all you do!
Can I buy two $60 subscriptions and get 120 horsepower?
We need some legal takes on that NDA.
Hopefully some lawyer YT'ers will get on it.
A job I recently signed up has in its contract a clause where you agree to, for the rest of your life, not recommend the products of a competitor. I wonder how this would be enforced at all, if it’s not a first amendment violation. But I think it’s mostly there just to annoy you out of the thought of recommending a competitors product
I would love to see this nda doc in a flowchart setup, It would definitely clarify the madness of that doc for easier understanding. : )
Don't do it Louis! We're all grateful for what you talk about and fight for everyday!!
Find a trustee, make her / him create a company next to you named "Not-Louis Rossmann Group", who can sign the NDA and give you parts of the proceeds. You forward customers that have possibly fixable devices to Not-Louis Rossman Group, which is right next door, who then can repair the device instead 💀
Coincidentally, Not-Rossmann is incorporated in the Cayman Islands
NO