@@MasterHellish-Gaming I've recently been getting into opentd, and installed some helipads, but I'm not quite sure how they work. I'm not sure if you've already made some tutorials on them, but i can't find any. Any chance you could make a short on them?
One thing that should be mentioned: Some of these rules are recommendations, and some rules are absolutes because they _will_ eventually come back to bite you. Also, I reorganized the list. _General items:_ Rule 1: Do not cross the tracks. *(Recommendation)* Rule 5: Split off before merge on. *(Effectively Absolute. I would only break the rule if the distance between them is **_several_** train lengths, like 3 or 4 or more.)* Rule 6: Corners should be longer than a train length. *(Recommendation)* Rule 3: Place a signal before track splitting. *(Recommendation, but you have to place them somewhere anyways, so why not do it right)* _Items that apply if you followed rule 1:_ Rule 4: Junction parts should be at least one train length. *(Only actually applies to the track between the splits and merges. And on top of that, it's only a recommendation)* Rule 2: Place signals before track merging. *(Recommendation.)* But on short sections after track crossings (i.e. you broke rule 1 and 4) *absolutely* do not place this signal. _Items that apply if you broke rule 1:_ Rule 8: Leave a train length after crossings tracks and before the next signal. *(Absolute)* Rule 7: If rule 8 wouldn't allow you to place a signal between the junctions, move them further apart. (Or leave out that signal to make it one long junction if you have to.) *(Absolute.)*
Great to understand the junction rules to apply when trying to design your own junctions. I often find my junctions work fine until they get busy and blocked, I find out when my profits plummet!
A thing you need to remember for junctions is that sometimes it's better to create a sub optimal junction because it's faster to get more APM. But with build whilst paused on you can build without worrying about time Not blindly copying is great advice as it helps you learn rather than not understanding why it works
Very good explanation of the Split before Merge rule, which I never fully understood before. Knowing the reason why you do it (at 8:47) somehow made it click.
I also like the cloverleaf as it allows trains to turn around on the odd occasion they need to. Eg to get around gridlock, they went to a weird depot to be serviced/replaced etc
If you build the outside of a cloverleaf with the 4 diagonals, you can have a contraflow inner, where you swap the left and right directions temporarily. That helps with the merge: split rule. All you do is leave a tile for your required signals, and then put a bridge (or tunnel) at each end on one driving side only, and pass the other track under the bridge and run it on the "wrong side" within the junction, then pass it under the other bridge back to the "right" side at the other end of the inside of the junction. You then work out how to complete the missing directions for the junction between those two bridges. I hope that was clear enough :D
It's usually easier to build two 3-way junctions side-by-side instead of a 4-way junction as 3-way junctions have much simpler design. This is especially the case when you start building junctions with multiple lines in each direction.
One more thing for newish players - heavy trains have a lot of inertia. Aim to keep those ones on the flat bits in the junction and the lighter trains can do the bridges if it is a mixed goods/pax junction. Same with stations - keep the loaded trains flat and the unloaded trains can be the ones that change height.
In early versions of the game there was an additional rule "don't turn left to go right" (or the other way around) because the pathfinding could get confused and trains could get lost, but I think this is resolved in the latest version of OpenTTD, maybe on very very big junctions this could be an issue not sure. And one additional rule is "tunnels instead of bridges" if possible, because tunnels do not have a top speed limit. But there are situations where bridges are more useful as shown in the video
Yes there are a lot of different variations. That is why I went for the general logic of junction design rather than showcasing lots of specific junctions.
Depends on your many-to-many system. Keep all trains of 7 length and resolve each intersection according to the length. Also create waiting lines using entry-exit signals or just expand the loading station to how many trains assigned to that station in cause
What do you think of rail highways? E.g. that there are 2 lanes in each direction, and every 8-9 tiles there are conditional one-way signals, and a lane switches right after them, so if one train is stuck for some reason or is slower, then another train can pass him.
You need to be very good with advanced signals really for it to work. The thing is, in OpenTTD, trains path generally speaking via the shortest route, so all your trains will switch sides depending on which is technically shorter. To stop them doing that, you have to know how to add pathfinding penalties to make them prefer the route that is slightly longer as appropriate. You also need to know how to build "prio blocks" for the highway to work properly. You're better off planning - if you must have different speed trains - in advance which is going to be fast and which slow and treat them as nested routes that are separate but run together for the aesthetic. Follow MH's tips about bridges and tunnels to keep your lines separate but you'll need more space to pass the slow lines under the fast lines or v.v.
I must admit I make the mistake of putting a signal on the exits of merges, probably because I still think in term of blocks rather than paths. I figured that "freeing" the block ASAP once a train exits the merge is best, although it isn't really necessary with pathing nowadays.
Yes, especially for those of us who cut our teeth playing TTO and TTDx - long before path signals were a thing - when signals only operated on blocks, then you wanted signals both immediately before *and* after each diverge. Remembering _not_ to do that with path signals takes a lot of effort!
It is ok to do on splits where we're talking about a mainline splitting to a sideline rather than a station. A sideline should be built to handle that capacity easily enough without backing up to the ML junction.
how about long trains? is it also applicable for that? im frequently using long trains especially cargos (both raw and processed). for passengers? maybe 10 cars
What about roundabouts? Single track roundabout can be deadlocking, but how about two track roundabout? It got me thinking if there is a clever multi-track roundabout that would work.
It's worse than that. When I do tutorials like this I don't actually make the money legitimately and I use the sandbox options to cheat it in so it wasn't even my money in the first place
I'm so happy you're still making OpenTTD tutorials!
Glad you like them!
@@MasterHellish-Gaming any chance you'd be able to make a new tutorial on helis?
@BlueAxoTV on what?
@@MasterHellish-Gaming I've recently been getting into opentd, and installed some helipads, but I'm not quite sure how they work. I'm not sure if you've already made some tutorials on them, but i can't find any. Any chance you could make a short on them?
@@BlueAxoTV ok
One thing that should be mentioned: Some of these rules are recommendations, and some rules are absolutes because they _will_ eventually come back to bite you. Also, I reorganized the list.
_General items:_
Rule 1: Do not cross the tracks. *(Recommendation)*
Rule 5: Split off before merge on. *(Effectively Absolute. I would only break the rule if the distance between them is **_several_** train lengths, like 3 or 4 or more.)*
Rule 6: Corners should be longer than a train length. *(Recommendation)*
Rule 3: Place a signal before track splitting. *(Recommendation, but you have to place them somewhere anyways, so why not do it right)*
_Items that apply if you followed rule 1:_
Rule 4: Junction parts should be at least one train length. *(Only actually applies to the track between the splits and merges. And on top of that, it's only a recommendation)*
Rule 2: Place signals before track merging. *(Recommendation.)* But on short sections after track crossings (i.e. you broke rule 1 and 4) *absolutely* do not place this signal.
_Items that apply if you broke rule 1:_
Rule 8: Leave a train length after crossings tracks and before the next signal. *(Absolute)*
Rule 7: If rule 8 wouldn't allow you to place a signal between the junctions, move them further apart. (Or leave out that signal to make it one long junction if you have to.) *(Absolute.)*
Rules are made to be broken ;)
Great to understand the junction rules to apply when trying to design your own junctions. I often find my junctions work fine until they get busy and blocked, I find out when my profits plummet!
A thing you need to remember for junctions is that sometimes it's better to create a sub optimal junction because it's faster to get more APM.
But with build whilst paused on you can build without worrying about time
Not blindly copying is great advice as it helps you learn rather than not understanding why it works
Very good explanation of the Split before Merge rule, which I never fully understood before. Knowing the reason why you do it (at 8:47) somehow made it click.
I also like the cloverleaf as it allows trains to turn around on the odd occasion they need to. Eg to get around gridlock, they went to a weird depot to be serviced/replaced etc
If you build the outside of a cloverleaf with the 4 diagonals, you can have a contraflow inner, where you swap the left and right directions temporarily. That helps with the merge: split rule. All you do is leave a tile for your required signals, and then put a bridge (or tunnel) at each end on one driving side only, and pass the other track under the bridge and run it on the "wrong side" within the junction, then pass it under the other bridge back to the "right" side at the other end of the inside of the junction. You then work out how to complete the missing directions for the junction between those two bridges.
I hope that was clear enough :D
It's usually easier to build two 3-way junctions side-by-side instead of a 4-way junction as 3-way junctions have much simpler design. This is especially the case when you start building junctions with multiple lines in each direction.
Ye, if there is room. Can get hard with long train lengths.
One more thing for newish players - heavy trains have a lot of inertia. Aim to keep those ones on the flat bits in the junction and the lighter trains can do the bridges if it is a mixed goods/pax junction. Same with stations - keep the loaded trains flat and the unloaded trains can be the ones that change height.
Does driving full trains downhill make them go faster?
@@sihy I don't think so. They didn't model that I don't think.
From what I know there isn't a speed difference between a full train and an empty one
In early versions of the game there was an additional rule "don't turn left to go right" (or the other way around) because the pathfinding could get confused and trains could get lost, but I think this is resolved in the latest version of OpenTTD, maybe on very very big junctions this could be an issue not sure.
And one additional rule is "tunnels instead of bridges" if possible, because tunnels do not have a top speed limit. But there are situations where bridges are more useful as shown in the video
Tunnels do take up mores space annoyingly
@19:00 You could do a clover leave with four lines in stead of two and do the merge after the split.
Yes there are a lot of different variations. That is why I went for the general logic of junction design rather than showcasing lots of specific junctions.
In always up for a refresher on signals in OpenTTD!
Depends on your many-to-many system. Keep all trains of 7 length and resolve each intersection according to the length.
Also create waiting lines using entry-exit signals or just expand the loading station to how many trains assigned to that station in cause
Hi Hellish - Still working though standard tutorials, think this on advanced for this on yet. Be back to this on soon. Cheers for all Videos.
I'm going to do a little bit of rearrangement to the playlist sometime soon
What do you think of rail highways? E.g. that there are 2 lanes in each direction, and every 8-9 tiles there are conditional one-way signals, and a lane switches right after them, so if one train is stuck for some reason or is slower, then another train can pass him.
As a general rule I like them, but I find that the switching can sometimes slow the trains down more than just having no switching
You need to be very good with advanced signals really for it to work. The thing is, in OpenTTD, trains path generally speaking via the shortest route, so all your trains will switch sides depending on which is technically shorter. To stop them doing that, you have to know how to add pathfinding penalties to make them prefer the route that is slightly longer as appropriate.
You also need to know how to build "prio blocks" for the highway to work properly.
You're better off planning - if you must have different speed trains - in advance which is going to be fast and which slow and treat them as nested routes that are separate but run together for the aesthetic. Follow MH's tips about bridges and tunnels to keep your lines separate but you'll need more space to pass the slow lines under the fast lines or v.v.
I have just started this game again, since childhood. I have made a few videos and it is obvious I should watch more tutorials like this 😂
@@riiksbergplays first learn the hotkeys!
@Gil-games This I have to do 😁 Is there a list somewhere?
@riiksbergplays I made a video about it.
@@Gil-games ^^ I second that, even if you just start with the ones you use most of the time, like for landscaping, autorail, bridges, and tunnels.
@@RustyWalker I can't promote my vid here, to answer you: q-w-e, a, b, t
Please be very careful when placing URL's in your video description. 2 out of 3 URL's are not working cause you use the "◄" symbol in the URL itself.
I must admit I make the mistake of putting a signal on the exits of merges, probably because I still think in term of blocks rather than paths. I figured that "freeing" the block ASAP once a train exits the merge is best, although it isn't really necessary with pathing nowadays.
I must admit you just educated me on the mistake I still make, even on a new network I made last night. 😮
You do it right! There is no reason to remove signals, if trains clog up, the problem is somewhere else! Or the throughput of it is low.
Yes, especially for those of us who cut our teeth playing TTO and TTDx - long before path signals were a thing - when signals only operated on blocks, then you wanted signals both immediately before *and* after each diverge. Remembering _not_ to do that with path signals takes a lot of effort!
It is ok to do on splits where we're talking about a mainline splitting to a sideline rather than a station. A sideline should be built to handle that capacity easily enough without backing up to the ML junction.
@ after a week of reflection and checking save files, I still do this blindly.
I will, fr, use this fascinating knowledge in Locomotion 👌
how about long trains? is it also applicable for that?
im frequently using long trains especially cargos (both raw and processed). for passengers? maybe 10 cars
What about roundabouts? Single track roundabout can be deadlocking, but how about two track roundabout? It got me thinking if there is a clever multi-track roundabout that would work.
I used roundabouts and at low-to-medium traffic they work well.
i always prefer tunnels instead of bridges, tunnels don't have speed limits 😉
But they do reduce acceleration so they're not as good using in places where trains will be speeding up
@MasterHellish-Gaming Huh... Never noticed that 🤣
👍
Clovers definitely don't work, I used them a lot and had the network jammed the whole time.
They work, but definitely a bad solution for a simple problem. However if it got jammed, it means you messed up something else
could you not have just used tunnels at 9:45 just had either split go a different direction lol
I love how during the video you lost about 1 million in game
It's worse than that. When I do tutorials like this I don't actually make the money legitimately and I use the sandbox options to cheat it in so it wasn't even my money in the first place
Oh no, it started so well. Then the "bad" junction's signal removal, then the clover leaf. Argh
You are a junction!
Your face is a junction?
Rule 1-7 is absolutely good, but 8 is just made up, urban legend, not true, bogus 😊😊😊