I thought she might have been guilty in the beginning but after watching the trial I don't see any proof of guilt I see so much reasonable doubt it's overwhelming.
Me too. The prosecution's case is so crazy. From the very beginning. Dog missing, basement floor redone, phones gone, texts messages deleted and so many bum dials at the crucial moments and on and on its beyond crazy how they arrested her in the first case. They didn't investigate EVERYONE which I find very telling. Also the Albert's NEVER came out in the early morning with Ambulances, police cars at their front lawn and Brian Albert is a cop for goodness sake. That's in cops DNA to investigate what's happening in their lawn. The missing videos, the Sally port video of Proctor at that very tail light. Higgins going to work though he's off and going through the whole station though they are told they are NOT on this case. Omg on and on terrible inconsistencies.
Yup. The evidence doesn't add up. The injuries. The impact. The physics of it. All the arguments are rubbish. Trash in American. You cannot do that damage striking a body. The phone the glass. Where tge bidy was the speed of impact. In reverse on slippery road. The pieced were on impact with the other vehicke which was on video on the driveway.
There is no honest explanation for a 45 year old woman calling her parents at 1:10 am, 4:40 am, and 4:42 am other than she just ran over John O'Keefe in a fit of rage. There is no honest excuse for telling John's niece at 5 am to call Mr. Camerno to pick her up other than she knew John was never coming home again. At both 1 am and 5 am Karen read also didn't bother to take off her shoes when she entered John's house. Jen and Kerry did because everyone knew that John O'Keefe hated shoes in the house. And Mr. Camerano shovelled out the snow inside the garage from Karen Read leaving the door open. The only person who knew Johnwas never come home was Karen Read
There are some people who will never even entertain the idea that law enforcement would ever lie about something so serious. A “conspiracy” doesn’t necessitate everyone knowing someone is being framed. All it takes is a handful of people and the rest taking their word for it.
Or just plain of incompetence and lack of curiosity in everyone not within the little circle. Some that know, may not know the full story but it’s just what they need to do. People act like a conspiracy framing required EVERYONE involved in the case to now. But it could literally just be a few in the house (if thats where what Happened), Trooper Proctor or Bukchenic or a higher up, and the DA Morrisey. I know Brian Albert’s reputation is absolute TRASH among many members of the BPD, and a dirty cop could have a LOT of dirt on just the right people to convince them to look the other way. Heck, he’s been doing it for years while beating many of coworkers to a bloody pulp.
No conspiracy, they just use that instead of saying crazy. It's alot of a few people covering for evil deeds, some are just lazy and the rest can't make anyone else look bad. They have no evidence of Karen being guilty.
🛑🛑🛑🛑🛑 I think the pig DNA came from Chloe eating pigs ears, which are treats for dogs, before attacking John! There’s no doubt in my mind that the marks on John’s arm are indeed animal bites and scratches, specifically dogs, because I’ve had them myself and they are almost identical to those! 🛑🛑🛑🛑🛑
Entertaining? I also knew nothing coming in and also hasn't proven their case. Not even close. I don't trust the "investigation" (solo cups, etc). I believe several witnesses perjured themselves in testimony, particularly Proctor and Higgins. Several other Troopers seemed to be either incompetent or dishonest. A great many other cw witnesses seemed dishonest to me, particularly the McCabes and Alberts. And rather inexplicably, Lally played the audio clip where Read said (paraphrasing) "You know he was beaten up by Brian and Colin Albert? I mean, we're all in on the same joke, right? My taillight is cracked and John is pulverized." Buhkenik and Lally claim that's a confession, while she literary said it was a joke AND specifically said Brian and Colin did it. I mean... I believe Lally has brought in so many dodgy witnesses and so much dodgy evidence, I think he must be deliberately trying a dishonest case. ANYWAY, I have seen dozens of things that give me reasonable doubt and I believe the prosecutor is dishonest. A more general note on how I personally look at trials: take OJ. It kind of looked like he did it, but it strongly looked like the police had indeed planted evidence. Perhaps merely framing a guilty man. But you know how they say that if a juror thinks a witness lied about something, they can choose to disregard all their testimony? I personally see that as extending to entire organizations, like the police. If I think some of them are dishonest or cooking evidence... there's a real good chance I'll dismiss the police department altogether and all the evidence they collected. And good luck with that, prosecutor.
Karen's histrionics that morning caused her to be targeted. She was being told John never entered the house. She knew nothing about his injuries at that point. She had just noticed a cracked taillight that morning and was fixated on it. And she was foggy. She hadn't slept properly and panicked when she woke up and John was not there and hadn't called. She has an annoying personality type. I can see why everyone was annoyed by her. But she was irrational, in grief and hysterics, trying to understand what happened and blaming herself. We don't know what happened. The ME doesn't know what happened, why would anyone else? He died from the brain bleed and hypothermia. It is clear to me a dog attack was involved. I see no evidence John was struck by a vehicle.
Agree. One man decided that John was hit by a car. He never even considered John made it inside. Meanwhile those injuries occurred inside that house. That’s why the dog was rehomed and the basement floor was replaced. Mission accomplished. Six weeks in and everyone is hyper focused on a tail light. Karen is innocent. The prosecution’s expert re-enactment professional put the nail in the coffin. Meanwhile Karen lost her job and her health insurance over a lie. The spotlight needs to shine bright on this corrupt police department.
Yes, she was trying to work out what could have happened based on what they were telling her. It’s sad that she’s in this position simply bc she believed people at that terrible time of confusion and stress. These witnesses for the prosecution are disgusting people.
The pig DNA they found on John most-likely came from the dog. Big dogs favorite long lasting dog chew treats are " dried pigs ears" My dogs chew on one all day. "They are a very common dog treat!
If the police had actually investigated inside of the house then they would have known what type of treats Chloe ate. However, the cops didn't investigate their buddies because they are corrupt and dirty.
@@marlbboro8091 Really? You eat bacon bits, and it goes through your body, and then comes out through broken skin? Or are you saying, he got the scratches on his arm, and he rubbed the bacon bits into the wounds? So, if i eat pepperoni, then i cut my finger on a knife, if i lick my bleeding finger, i will taste the pepperoni? I doubt a biology expert would agree with this. I think it makes more sense to assume they are dog bites, and the treats the dog ate had bacon in it
@lizgee5331 oh yes, it's so fun to lose your love, your jobs, your healthcare, all your assets, friends and freedom. She can't even go for a drive. And to have a million nasty women go out of their way to say everything negative possible about you. Your medical & personal business put out everywhere. Who wouldn't love that?
I'm pretty sure it was in 5 seconds as well.. when I heard that, as someone who has driven in the snow nearly 20 years, I thought her tires were stuck on slush or snow.. entirely possible.. my vehicle has been stuck in 2 inches of snow before, the tires just-a-spinning! It's embarrassing but happens.
@@karinaz8756, I’m absolutely shocked these cops drink driving , Higgins , proctor ,Albert , do they think they are above the law , or their badges can protect them? It’s been an eye opener watching this fiasco
If they did the video would be missing or apparently Canton the laws of physics are different than any place in the face of the earth maybe cameras don’t work there.
@@mafortu9032 to make up for that broken Ringcam phenomena, cellphones seem to work quite easily in that block.. To stop cellphones from working you need to smash them and cut up the SIMCARD, otherwise in close proximity of any size butt they start googling, dialing and texting.
I went into this thinking she hit him by accident. But after watching this whole trial, I just don’t believe she had anything to do with this and someone else did this.
Makes no sense how the tail light looks like that,because the Dighton Massachusetts cop said that the tail light had a crack in it.He never said that 90 percent of the tail light was gone. 😂And he was the cop that was waiting for them to come tow the SUV to Canton.
The FBI and Federal Grand Jury found no evidence to support an alleged “frame job” or “conspiracy”. It ends there. There will be no indictments….if there were to be or any charges, it would’ve happened previously.
I doubt it very much. Indict with what? There’s no more evidence to indict them with John’s death than there is to indict Karen. The police did a dreadful job and that is going to deny John justice.
@@traci2669 It's not 'crazy talk' to know they are the sole ones responsible for for the murder of John O'Keefe. Namely Brian Albert, Colin Albert, & Brian Higgins. The Feds didn't give the defense those 3,074 pages that is exculpatory for Karen Read if they thoughyt she killed John.
Proctor has free speech, just like the rest of us. Let's see her attorneys texts talking about her. Better yet, let's see KRs texts to and from Turtle Boy. Rules for thee, but not for me.
@@Barb417 you don’t have free speech from employers. Especially when it is regarding to whatever you are working on. Imagine if your boss discovered that you called a client, boss, or other employee a see you next Tuesday and you made fun of their medical conditions and you hoped they would unalive themselves? You will be fired.
@@Barb417proctor is disgusting I feel sorry for his children especially daughter with a dirty cop dad that talks like that about women. Are you a dirty proctor
🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪, hello Vinny, from Ireland, have to say, am sick of the judge talking, getting up, down, walking around her chair, never seen a judge interfere so much, and have watched all the major trials from America the last 20 years. I'm seriously sick of listening to her.
Lol Irish fan here too. Totally agree. The judge seems to me to be working on behalf of the prosecution. When the defence speaks she upholds every objection made against them even if it makes no sense. She also sighs and huffs and acts fed up with their efforts. So biased. Turns out the people involved know her. She should never have taken the case.
@@lululiga333 hi Lulu,thanks for that,She is an attention seeker,wants to make sure she is seen and heard,it's a huge case in Boston,the defence did try and get rid of her,but to no avail, I don't understand Vinny not noticing how involved she is in interfering,by the way,,where is John's long sleeve shirt,??I might have missed that,, cheers,🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
At the end of the day, to a neutral couch juror, the Commonwealth has provided: A clear understanding of what the tables at the Waterfall look like, contaminated evidence, missing footage, proof of a google search unrelated to proving Karen ran over John, and proof of a couple having a fight all couples have had.
There is reasonable doubt. If I was on the jury I would have to vote NG. Karen should not testify. Bad idea. She could turn her reasonable doubt case into a prison sentence. I think she’s too high strung to be up on that stand.
Why did defence not ask a single witness why no photo was taken of the tail light before it went on the tow truck? Here in the UK the tow truck driver HAS to do it protect himself from accusation of damage!
What Proctor said and texted was awful. But much more important is how could he possibly be objective in this investigation? It’s like the song by Shaggy…”Wasn’t me”
He never ONCE considered John was in that house. Karen said she saw John heading towards the front door when she left. The house should have been searched before the basement was replaced and the house sold at a loss.
Yep , it’s gone from a crack until the car went to the sally port , after that it wash a smashed off lens , Also logically speaking , if the lens was smashed at the sally port , then those pieces of lens found on the lawn were definitely planted there !
Did the red solo cups give it away? Or was it the butt dials. If anyone else had a dead cop in their yard they would be detained in a cop car while their house was being searched. I knew this was set up from day 1. House sold basement floor replaced and the dog rehomed . One cop covering for his cop friends.
Hey Vinnie and chat, I started watching the trial because EDB was covering it. I knew very little except a brief summary. I wasn’t familiar with any of the conspiracy theories, and had never heard of turtleboy until he was brought up in trial. I have to say that I am stunned that at this point in the prosecution’s case that we still don’t know how JO actually died. I’m even more shocked by the horrible evidence collection, the discarded cell phones, all of the butt dials, and don’t get me started on that Trooper Proctor and his text messages. Unless Lally produces a video of Karen hitting JO and driving off, I don’t know how any of the jurors get to guilty. I think sadly, we will never know what happened to JO due to the early determination by that trooper that it was Karen and never investigated any other possibility. Sure, free Karen Reed, but I’m mostly upset that we may not see any Justice for this, by all accounts, decent and kind man who’s life was tragically ended and the children whom seem to have lost all of their parental figures. I say shame on Lally and Proctor for not doing a proper investigation. JO deserved that at the least. Thanks for your coverage. I really enjoy you “unplugged”
The whole reason they are using 3rd party defense is b/c Karen wants justice for John. She puts herself through this to bring the McAlberts to the public spotlight. She always had a surplus of reasonable doubt.
I agree. I’ve been learning this evidence mostly in real time during the trial. One of my first questions was about the scratches/cuts on his arm, and the lack of bruises on the rest of his body. Another was the contested search by Jen McCabe. I’m still waiting to see the defense’s argument but the CW’s experts didn’t convince me. The fact that that none of them saw the body from the house or came out… that was weird. But as the case has progressed I’ve been horrified by the lack of proper evidence collection, the confusing info, the apparent bias of those working on the case. The ring doorbell footage of her taillight does not look like the photo taken once the police had the car. The CW still hasn’t had the ME testify yet and that reconstruction expert… yikes. Even if he had been smooth and confident on the stand his theory of how the accident supposedly happened seems improbable at best. I think for me, it seems the CW is asking us to believe a lot of coincidences. Phones destroyed a day before discovery, phone calls deleted by accident, screenshots turned over instead of devices, no bruises anywhere on John’s body, an inverted video, missing portions of video, etc. It seems the only thing I have to reconcile with the defenses case is when she was hysterical at the scene she said multiple times, “did I hit him!”? Could I have hit him? I hit him!” in different combinations, depending on who is asked. I can imagine someone thinking that after driving home intoxicated. And shame oh her (and all of them) for that. But the FBI’s crash Re-constructionists (from a neutral 3rd party not paid for by the defense) don’t believe the accident could have occurred the way the CW says it did. For me, that’s enough to set aside her comments as anxious blurt-outs. There is a lot of evidence that makes me think another incident took place… something involving a fight. It could have even been an accident. The multiple male samples oh John’s pants gives me an idea what happened. But I agree-one of the worst parts is how little respect John has received. As I heard a NY attorney say it, “If this had happened here there would have been hundreds of officers at the hospital, there would be public grief, and he would certainly be called ‘Officer O’Keefe.’ In this case? They didn’t even come out of the house.” Karen’s constitutional right-and by extension, all of our right-to a fair trial is being decided now. So of course we are focused on Karen and the trial. Buy the real tragedy is that a man died and those who could have helped to bring his family closure were biased and so sloppy I doubt we’ll ever have resolute answers, let alone a conviction. When I observe Canton police, the DA, the powerful families, even this judge it feels like “something is rotten in the state of Denmark.”
The biggest question I've had is HOW, currently, people still believe she's guilty, despite everything we've seen saying otherwise. (Don't get me wrong, I think maybe she could have done it but the investigation and the presentation of this case shows soooo much reasonable doubt that legally I don't believe she can be convicted.) The overwhelming answer from people has been 'Occam's Razor', its the simplest answer that she hit him with the car... but it's NOT! To believe she did it, with the theory the CW has provided we have to ignore all laws of physics, all forensic medical analysis and all common sense! (Before you even get to the suspicion behaviour of everyone in that house that night - the Canton butt dials and brainworms are apparently a thing. You have to do some real mental gymnastics. We maybe could have gotten there before they had Trooper 'Expert' on the stand. It's sooo telling that they spent so much more time, money and attention on defending the 'Hos long...' search than they have on proving KR did this. They could have spent that money on an independent reconstructionist. However, my theory is that no independent entity would take THAT data (or lack thereof as they measured nothing and the position of JO'S resting place was pointed out by someone who wasn't even on the scene until after he was taken to hospital) and put their reputation on the line to present this. Its a real s*!t show. I also had no context before watching this. I'd just finished the Daybell trial and went back to catch up with this one and my British butt is STUNNED that this even got to trial. I've never seen anything like it, except maybe the OJ trial.
@@Ieezeca I completely understand what you’re saying. I just hope that once this case is over, the FBI figures out what actually happened and that whomever it was is criminally charged. Listening to the voicemails this morning only proved she was genuinely pissed at him and trying to get him to come home. If she hit him, she didn’t even realize it. But I have a feeling the experts are going to say his injuries did not come from being struck by a vehicle
Can't wait for when closing arguments happen, I like when closing arguments take place because it sounds so much better when it's puts together & makes more sense of everything, I still think defense is winning, I really don't think Karen at all did this, John's arm definitely looks like a dog attack & his face was beaten up, maybe John didn't go in the house Maybe John was beaten up on the front lawn & the dog attacted John & John passed out in the snow cause he was beaten up so bad & John then frozed to death with having hypothermia & the Alberts & the McCabes knew what had happened & they all tried covering it up. Because they all knew they would all be held accountable & because Trooper Proctor knew the families & Trooper Proctor Hated Karen & Trooper Proctor Tampered with the evidence & made it look like it was Karen that did this. one thing, is, The Judge is very Biased she always sustains everything, she always rushes everything, she always has an attitude, I don't care very much for this Judge.. She should of been removed.. I believe Karen is definitely 100% not guilty & all the ones involved should be charged & if I was Karen after this is over I would file a civil suit & sue them all.
Vinnie, Who books your guests on your main show? They need fired! Asap. Try getting credible people on like Andrea Bukhart or Melanie Little who actually show intelligence, have watched the whole trial and have common sense. Thanks
Too many things don’t add up. Wrong addresses, wrong reports, blood dna with 3 male profiles on his clothes yet no blood dna on the car. The house dig up, the dog rehomed The proctors 2nd family . Come on no one gets that special treatment unless it’s being covered. Pig ear dog treats are pig DNA One girl in the house that night had a breakdown and hasn’t worked since. Tell me that isn’t intimidating. It’s a real sad case.
I came into this knowing nothing. I believe all people involved were drunk. Three options: 1. There was a fight, and he was hit and thrown out. Don't think they meant to kill him and thought he left. 2. Karen hit him unknowingly because she was also drunk 3. The dog attacked him, he fell, hit his head and passed out in the cold. The owners of the house didn't know how to explain a dead man on their property, so they aligned their story. The problem is that the police decided on one option and then tried to fit the evidence.
I completely agree. Those are the three lines of inquiry the police should have investigated, and ruled out with credible evidence until they had one. But since these are three very plausible options, and none can be ruled out, they cannot convict Karen, they just cannot. That is more than reasonable doubt.
That photo Vinnie has up is a complete sham. That’s what it looked like after the police finished pulling it apart! How can they talk about the light at all when no one took a contemporaneous photo of it before it was placed on the tow truck? If you had a completely apolitical, unbiased crown prosecution service reviewing all major cases before they are allowed to go forward like we do here in the UK,I’m sore this case would have been thrown out.
In most court houses of the US, this case would have been thrown out or rejected with deep apologizes to the victims family by the DA. No US lawyer I have heard of has no idea how this trial got to trial. The investigation itself has a few dozen things that trigger reasonable doubt, and that’s without any testimony.
@@rachelann9362 Nancy Grace. She never met an (even just) ACCUSED, (not even technically a defendent yet) she didn't want to guillotine as soon as she heard their name. Even The Inquisition or the KGB would have been going "Nancy..babe..you need chill.."
Trooper Paul on direct said Officer O'Keefe was hit at a certain location, and on cross he changed the location. He didn't include all the key cycles, so where did he get his data from? He is not qualified for the role of accident reconstructionist. Let's put it that way: as a prosecutor, would you call him to testify? According to him, the car hit him in the arm, he swung, hit his head on the curb, and is projected 20 feet away. The body would have been projected perpendicular or at an angle to the rood, not parallel to the road. If the taillight exploded at impact, there would be also cuts to the torso/hip area. I'm not an expert in aero dynamics, but the taillight flew upwards? He had very little evidence and a great deal of assumptions, not corroborated by science.
Does not Julie’s brother and 2 friends testimony count waiting in their truck behind Karen. They said they saw her alone sitting in her Lexus outside of 34 Fairview drive. Doesn’t it mean John had already exit the Lexus while she sat there alone with the interior car light on.
Yes, exactly. Karen let John out at the foot of the drive before pulling up to make room for the F-150 with the Ryan Nagle party in it. The F-150 got there at 12:23 am based on the texts. So, John was already walking up the drive at 12:22 am. The police photos of the property never show the hinged gate to the backyard that is next to the garage/drive (see Zillow). I think John went through that gate to pee before entering the party. But it was the exact same time that Chloe had been let out, and she went after his arm and caused him to fall on pool cement, twice. I think the Alberts found him dead hours later and tried to stage it as a plow accident. The theory about the basement was based on John's phone showing he took 80 steps and 3 sets of stairs. I think only his phone took the stairs. Someone took it inside to look at it. I think they took John's body out the same gate he entered, next to the drive, and then they moved it to the flagpole area in the Ford Edge that was Brian Albert's work vehicle. John's body was dragged from the vehicle and lost a shoe in the dark. There are many possibilities for exactly what transpired, but I think this was an unintended death, and I don't think John ever entered the house. I think he died in the backyard and had been in cardiac arrest for many hours when first responders found him in the front yard. They delayed pronouncing him, but he was long dead.
They said they saw both Karen Reid and John arrive at the same time. Then as they drive away, they saw the inside light in her vehicle and Karen Read in the driver seat. The reason the light was on is that John O'Keefe was stepping out of the vehicle. They did not see John outside in the dark but they did see Karen Read inside with the light on
I broke my shoulder in 3 different spots by falling into the back deck, i have a hard time recocile getting hit by a 7000+ vehicle and not have any broken bones
The only way a tail light is breaking while hitting someone is if there is something behind the person that keeps them from being pushed away and there would be obvious other injuries.
I hope you are Ok the shoulder its very painful. I felt in last December put my foot in a hole and fall and hit and dislocated my shoulder and it’s the most painful thing I ever had. I still have tiny pain but took me months to recover.
He gets hit by a car and his knees don’t get clipped. He isn’t hit in the ribs. If we would have started with the alleged car accident this wouldn’t have lasted 6 weeks.
How do you explain the body being found on a thick layer of snow, based on leaf blower video, where we see the blood? At 12.15am, there was barely any snow, based on library and street videos?
Why no pictures taken before it was towed. Thats crazy not to mention the one outside cop "Dighten cop" said there was a piece missing but not destroyed.
I started at the beginning not knowing anything and I actually laughed when defense said she was framed. After watching they have kind of convinced me. All the phones missing, butt dials, proctor. It’s all just too crazy. One thing is for sure they have not proven that Karen hit him.
This! I was kinda taken back when he said that in opening. The defense under promised and over delivered so far in this case. I've been shocked by the evidence and lack of evidence. The prosecution over promised and has severely under delivered . . . as in hasn't delivered at all to me from their confusing opening.
Trooper.Paul who is the reconstructionist couldnt even prove that.... it was probably, one way..... that does not prove she did it and he is what their case is built on. NOT GUILTY
Proctor’s behavior was unacceptable under any circumstance, at any job. If he doesn’t get fired (at the one occupation where they’re legally allowed to detain civilians) It will be the biggest judicial miscarriage of all. It alarms me that you think the only reason for a cop to be fired is if they do something illegal- what other job functions that way? And those are jobs with FAR lower stakes. My best friend has more regulatory oversight as a hair dresser! I think he’ll be fired, or there will be actual mobs with pitchforks outside their station. Let’s have higher expectations for the people we entrust with our safety and well-being. Another attorney made the fantastic point- imagine being a young woman pulled over for a dui or something; and the officer detaining you is Proctor. That’s not even touching on his inability to ever testify again- he might’ve impacted the Walsh case, for God’s sake.
Vinnie there’s a reason why we are here in your UA-cam channel. We value your insights! I believe you are a respectful, credible and honest human, in no way do I see you as a SENSATIONALIST!! 😊 You are very much appreciated, truly enjoy your lives and your reporting in COURT TV 😊
Most people today have CCTV cameras at their house. "They to will see what I see!" I watched all the videos of Karen driving by CCTV cams and there is NO WAY her light was as broken as the police showed the light! That rear light passing by the cams at night would show up on the inferred cctv cams as bright white light, as bright as a headlight! "with or without the brake pedal being depressed!" What the cops don't show you? Is video of Karen's SUV going past the same cameras she travelled on her route home with the light as broken, as cops show that light now! If they put the light back on the SUV and drive by the same cameras at night and compare it to Karen driving by those cameras on her way home. You would clearly see the huge difference! I've had CCTV cams for 25 years I can spot a broken tail light at night for over a mile away!
Hi Mike.. u must have multiple degrees to look down upon Nick the hairdresser. This case must be soo messed up that a hairdresser and a stay at home mom can figure it out and see math aint mathing. Just a thought from a illiterate human being. We all want justice for John. Who ever is guilty beyond reasonable doubt must go to jail. But you cannot be dishonest and untruthful if you want justice to prevail. Justice for those who are not guilty!!
I don't feel like a Karen Read supporter because I do not like her, even a little. However, these charges make no sense to me, as there is no evidence that John was struck by a car. I see no motive for anyone to hurt him. I'm inclined to think he suffered an unintended death in the backyard because he entered the gate next to the garage to pee before entering the party. It was the same time that Chloe was out, ~12:22 am. I think Chloe attacked John's arm and caused him to fall on pool cement, twice, and that he was found dead hours later and his phone was taken inside and upstairs. Then someone in that house made a drunken decision to stage it as a snowplow accident and John's body was taken through the same gate he entered and moved in the Ford Edge to the area of the flagpole. He was dragged from that vehicle and lost a shoe in the dark. If Karen had not come unhinged that morning, calling attention to herself and making herself a target with all the talk about the taillight, they probably would have blamed the plow. It's obvious the taillight pieces were planted.
For a person who doesn’t like KR you do spin a tale of speculation of what happened inside the house. the simplest explanation is she did it because of her unhinged jealousy, which I had no idea about till this trial. The truth comes out first ‘ I did it’ ‘ could I have done it.’ Why even think it if she saw him go in the house - purportedly. Makes zero sense her even questioning it. Every other theory is so convoluted. Police were idiots for messing this up big time and there is mountains of reasonable doubt and a guilty person will go free and the real victim here officer John o Keefe will never have justice. OJ 2.0 of this generation.
John looks like he was in a fight because he was in a fight. That’s why the basement floor was replaced and the house was sold at a loss. Don’t overthink it. The Prosecutor decided that John was hit by a car. He never even considered John made it inside. Red solo cups and grocery store bags ended this.
Some from that house killed him, the evidence doesn't tell us who but it does show some did. The evidence shows me that it most certainly is a frame job.
If our taillight looked like that photo, we wouldn’t say my tail light is cracked, we would say it’s missing or broken. I doubt it would be missing from hitting someone’s arm with not a single bone broken, not even black and blue. There is something else that happened to John. Fact is, the cops all had a life raft, and Karen didn’t. I don’t think they liked John or Karen.
So they want you to believe that after having 9 drinks, in heavy snow , and on a uphill curvy road, Karen Read drove 62' at 24 mph in reverse at night to hit John O'Keefe. I don't think that's possible. Most people wouldn't be able to handle a vehicle at that speed for 30' on dry roads in reverse
The trigger event was on the wrong key cycle. The trigger event happened during the tow. Joe Paul did not define any times when what he alleged happened. And, based on witness testimony, Karen was still waiting out front for John at 12:45 am.
The mileage of the trigger event was listed. And the milage when the car was seized was listed. And we knew where Karen Read drove in between , and the difference in milage is the same number of miles that Karen Read drove. So we know that the trigger event at that mileage occurred outside 34 Fairview
I don’t know how this isn’t talked about more tbh. We have video of her car hours after he’d been hit and it does not match the police evidence photo from a couple days later. Its appearance changed some time after his death, once in police custody. That should be the end of it, tbh. But people ignore it somehow.
@@foreverwander0320 maybe the defence will bring this up and more, should be interesting to see their evidence and thoughts, should be good, I’m sure they will show us that it couldn’t have happened the way the prosecution says it did, to me it’s all highly suspicious, proctor really was something else, he hated Karen!
You can see that her light is broken as she drives away. And she admitted in her nightline interview that her taillight was broken and she discussed it with Kerry Roberts and Jen McCabe at 5 am
Vinny is so relatable and I know he is going towards not guilty. I’m a first responder and honestly I’d say not guilty. Those marks really look like a dog bite and claw marks.
Was a first responder as an EMT then paramedic for a decade. The injuries were not from a hit and run. The arm always looked like an animal attack. This should never have gone to trial
Vinny, cmon I know you gotta play both sides but really and truly do you think in your heart of hearts that his injuries on arm are from tail light or more like dog bite?? Seriously
They did find some things. They were the ones who found the shoe. A few pieces of taillight too. But they showed up at like 5 pm when it was already dark and way more snow had accumulated.
Unfortunately the FBI won’t do sh**, however you’re going to hear a lot of early retirements and a police press release saying they will be reinforcing procedures from now on. Unfortunately the status quo stays the same.
It’s a real shame when crooked officers are allowed to retire. They get to keep their pension then. They should be fired, in my opinion. But if none of the Uvalde officers were fired for their gross inaction during a school shooting, I doubt these doofuses related to this case will face any real consequences
IMHO if I were a juror and found out after the trial that the homeowner replaced the flooring and rehoused the dog and that the judge has a known relationship with the family involved I would be furious. Not to mention that the judge may rule against the dog bite expert or limit the testimony of her and the highly qualified accident reconstruction experts. You know the ones with doctorates in engineering and bio mechanics. If the state is after justice and wants to punish the person who killed JO then let the defense experts speak. He and his family deserve better.
I'm Dutch and didn't know anything about this, until for the last month this case became popular on social media, I do hate drunk drivers but during the last few weeks became more and more in daubt if she did this.. and in this case 100% convinced it is better to let someone guilty walk free, just to make sure the Law and police follow procedures .. you need procedures to be lawful to protect others and yourself to get destroyed by dirty cops and incompetent Judges.
That picture of the cops outside in the snow could be looking for pieces of the tail light. But it doesn't say anything about what they found. And it doesn't show the tail light. That picture is just a distraction. Means nothing.
Where is his blood? His blood is where he died! And that wasn’t where he was found! Follow the facts! The Alberts replaced their basement floor. There’s your sense!!
You're making good points here for the prosecution. I'll admit, I was in the middle coming into this.. open minded, wasn't sure what to think.. However, you're mentioning the snowplows pushing stuff in big snow piles, making it unable to see.. and they specifically mentioned those pieces were found closer to where John was found.. in the fresh snow, not in the snow piles.. I'm not sure still about anything here.. but! I do know the MSP and Canton PD really screwed this up from the beginning. They mentioned an unattended death, not knowing the cause... why didn't they secure the crime scene? Treat it as a homicide from the first second.. if you find out it was an accident later on, then great. At least you have all the evidence properly cared for..
But there is NO way to tell what the tail light looked like BEFORE the cops had it in their possession. I’m not law enforcement and I would know to take photos. It’s ridiculous to use these photos for making one’s mind up. The photos mean nothing without some proof of before and after. Looking to the tail lights for proof is just clutching at straws.
There actually is a way, there is video of her pulling out of the driveway in the morning on her way to look for John. You can see the taillight and it looks mostly in tact-not broken as it appears in the police photos later.
It’s ridiculous to continue to believe that John died in a car accident and didn’t have a single broken bone. He flew through the air shattered a tail light with zero injuries below the chest. Why are we haggling over a tail light.
Vinnie, Good Evening.. How many different "F - Ups" will there be that are appealable, should Karen Read be found guilty? It seems like a lot... A LOT!
I have a question that is getting lost. If there was no car accident and she didn’t kill him, How did this guy get dead? Unless an alien came from outer space someone in that house must have done this. Don’t you think?
In the audio recording where Karen supposedly "confessed" (she said this was all a joke), Karen herself said John was beaten by Brian and Colin Albert. So there's that. The exact quote: "ok, you're aware he was beaten up by Brian and Colin Albert? We're all in on the same joke, right? My taillight's cracked and John is pulverized." Day 20, near the end of Buhkenik's direct.
At the end of the video where she hits johns car, you can see a lot of red in the right rear tail light as she drives away. It looks nothing like the tail light post-proctor. Case closed, it couldn’t have happened the way the prosecution said it did.
I think anyone who has ony watched a police crime drama could have done a better job at the crime scene. Chain of custody, evidence markers, photos of evidence in situ, proper evidence bags are all things that. seem to be unheard of by anyone investigating this crime.
I thought she might have been guilty in the beginning but after watching the trial I don't see any proof of guilt I see so much reasonable doubt it's overwhelming.
Me too. The prosecution's case is so crazy. From the very beginning. Dog missing, basement floor redone, phones gone, texts messages deleted and so many bum dials at the crucial moments and on and on its beyond crazy how they arrested her in the first case. They didn't investigate EVERYONE which I find very telling. Also the Albert's NEVER came out in the early morning with Ambulances, police cars at their front lawn and Brian Albert is a cop for goodness sake. That's in cops DNA to investigate what's happening in their lawn. The missing videos, the Sally port video of Proctor at that very tail light. Higgins going to work though he's off and going through the whole station though they are told they are NOT on this case. Omg on and on terrible inconsistencies.
Yup. The evidence doesn't add up. The injuries. The impact. The physics of it. All the arguments are rubbish. Trash in American. You cannot do that damage striking a body. The phone the glass. Where tge bidy was the speed of impact. In reverse on slippery road. The pieced were on impact with the other vehicke which was on video on the driveway.
There is no honest explanation for a 45 year old woman calling her parents at 1:10 am, 4:40 am, and 4:42 am other than she just ran over John O'Keefe in a fit of rage. There is no honest excuse for telling John's niece at 5 am to call Mr. Camerno to pick her up other than she knew John was never coming home again. At both 1 am and 5 am Karen read also didn't bother to take off her shoes when she entered John's house. Jen and Kerry did because everyone knew that John O'Keefe hated shoes in the house. And Mr. Camerano shovelled out the snow inside the garage from Karen Read leaving the door open. The only person who knew Johnwas never come home was Karen Read
There are some people who will never even entertain the idea that law enforcement would ever lie about something so serious.
A “conspiracy” doesn’t necessitate everyone knowing someone is being framed. All it takes is a handful of people and the rest taking their word for it.
Or just plain of incompetence and lack of curiosity in everyone not within the little circle. Some that know, may not know the full story but it’s just what they need to do. People act like a conspiracy framing required EVERYONE involved in the case to now. But it could literally just be a few in the house (if thats where what Happened), Trooper Proctor or Bukchenic or a higher up, and the DA Morrisey. I know Brian Albert’s reputation is absolute TRASH among many members of the BPD, and a dirty cop could have a LOT of dirt on just the right people to convince them to look the other way. Heck, he’s been doing it for years while beating many of coworkers to a bloody pulp.
This whole country is corrupt!
Politicians, Supreme Court, presidents, everywhere open your eyes! If they want to crucify you it will happen’
Most wouldn't. Most wouldn't.
No conspiracy, they just use that instead of saying crazy. It's alot of a few people covering for evil deeds, some are just lazy and the rest can't make anyone else look bad. They have no evidence of Karen being guilty.
These people are called "suckers". Or better yet, "copsuckers". "Bootlickers" as well.
🛑🛑🛑🛑🛑 I think the pig DNA came from Chloe eating pigs ears, which are treats for dogs, before attacking John!
There’s no doubt in my mind that the marks on John’s arm are indeed animal bites and scratches, specifically dogs, because I’ve had them myself and they are almost identical to those! 🛑🛑🛑🛑🛑
That could be it!
I thought the same thing.
The house had cops in it so....
There was pig dna?!
@@Bliss31 Obviously. Especially in the master bedroom.
I knew nothing coming in. The prosecution failed to prove their case. In my opinion.
Dissect that. Was the prosecution just not entertaining enough for you?
@Paula14609 well, considering most of it is lies, there's not much truth to dissect
Same ✓
Entertaining?
I also knew nothing coming in and also hasn't proven their case. Not even close.
I don't trust the "investigation" (solo cups, etc). I believe several witnesses perjured themselves in testimony, particularly Proctor and Higgins.
Several other Troopers seemed to be either incompetent or dishonest.
A great many other cw witnesses seemed dishonest to me, particularly the McCabes and Alberts.
And rather inexplicably, Lally played the audio clip where Read said (paraphrasing) "You know he was beaten up by Brian and Colin Albert? I mean, we're all in on the same joke, right? My taillight is cracked and John is pulverized."
Buhkenik and Lally claim that's a confession, while she literary said it was a joke AND specifically said Brian and Colin did it.
I mean... I believe Lally has brought in so many dodgy witnesses and so much dodgy evidence, I think he must be deliberately trying a dishonest case.
ANYWAY, I have seen dozens of things that give me reasonable doubt and I believe the prosecutor is dishonest.
A more general note on how I personally look at trials: take OJ. It kind of looked like he did it, but it strongly looked like the police had indeed planted evidence. Perhaps merely framing a guilty man.
But you know how they say that if a juror thinks a witness lied about something, they can choose to disregard all their testimony?
I personally see that as extending to entire organizations, like the police. If I think some of them are dishonest or cooking evidence... there's a real good chance I'll dismiss the police department altogether and all the evidence they collected. And good luck with that, prosecutor.
@@Paula14609 I've thought that the prosecution is funnier than any comedy act I've seen 😂😂😂
Karen's histrionics that morning caused her to be targeted. She was being told John never entered the house. She knew nothing about his injuries at that point. She had just noticed a cracked taillight that morning and was fixated on it. And she was foggy. She hadn't slept properly and panicked when she woke up and John was not there and hadn't called. She has an annoying personality type. I can see why everyone was annoyed by her. But she was irrational, in grief and hysterics, trying to understand what happened and blaming herself. We don't know what happened. The ME doesn't know what happened, why would anyone else? He died from the brain bleed and hypothermia. It is clear to me a dog attack was involved. I see no evidence John was struck by a vehicle.
Well said. I’m not a Karen fan, I’m a burden of proof fan.
Agree. One man decided that John was hit by a car. He never even considered John made it inside. Meanwhile those injuries occurred inside that house. That’s why the dog was rehomed and the basement floor was replaced. Mission accomplished. Six weeks in and everyone is hyper focused on a tail light. Karen is innocent. The prosecution’s expert re-enactment professional put the nail in the coffin. Meanwhile Karen lost her job and her health insurance over a lie. The spotlight needs to shine bright on this corrupt police department.
Yes, she was trying to work out what could have happened based on what they were telling her. It’s sad that she’s in this position simply bc she believed people at that terrible time of confusion and stress. These witnesses for the prosecution are disgusting people.
"Does the evidence add up?" Alex, Ill take "what is NO?" for $200
The pig DNA they found on John most-likely came from the dog. Big dogs favorite long lasting dog chew treats are " dried pigs ears" My dogs chew on one all day. "They are a very common dog treat!
All my dogs love them!
Yep!
If the police had actually investigated inside of the house then they would have known what type of treats Chloe ate. However, the cops didn't investigate their buddies because they are corrupt and dirty.
They also said it could be bacon bits in bar snacks he ate.
@@marlbboro8091 Really? You eat bacon bits, and it goes through your body, and then comes out through broken skin? Or are you saying, he got the scratches on his arm, and he rubbed the bacon bits into the wounds? So, if i eat pepperoni, then i cut my finger on a knife, if i lick my bleeding finger, i will taste the pepperoni? I doubt a biology expert would agree with this. I think it makes more sense to assume they are dog bites, and the treats the dog ate had bacon in it
They didn’t come close to meeting their burden. Judge should dismiss this and stop this continued hassle of an innocent person
I feel bad for people that walk around with no common sense
She's loving the attention. However, it's all bad attention as she is despicable
@lizgee5331 oh yes, it's so fun to lose your love, your jobs, your healthcare, all your assets, friends and freedom. She can't even go for a drive. And to have a million nasty women go out of their way to say everything negative possible about you. Your medical & personal business put out everywhere. Who wouldn't love that?
@@Ieezeca I'm talking about the judge
@@traci2669
I feel bad for people that would say this to other people... 😒
So her car accelerates from 0 mph to 24 mph in 60 feet. Not on your life unless she’s a stunt man on the side.
In snow.. even in perfect conditions would be hard.
While drunk.
I'm pretty sure it was in 5 seconds as well.. when I heard that, as someone who has driven in the snow nearly 20 years, I thought her tires were stuck on slush or snow.. entirely possible.. my vehicle has been stuck in 2 inches of snow before, the tires just-a-spinning! It's embarrassing but happens.
On a curved road too
@@karinaz8756, I’m absolutely shocked these cops drink driving , Higgins , proctor ,Albert , do they think they are above the law , or their badges can protect them?
It’s been an eye opener watching this fiasco
Why didn’t any cop wear body cameras when investigating the crime scene?
If they did the video would be missing or apparently Canton the laws of physics are different than any place in the face of the earth maybe cameras don’t work there.
Probably because the cops in Canton didn't want to incriminate themselves while they were plotting to frame Karen?
Exactly not in this town. In my county in another state they all have body cam. All it’s very convenient to hide the truth
@@mafortu9032 to make up for that broken Ringcam phenomena,
cellphones seem to work quite easily in that block..
To stop cellphones from working you need to smash them and cut up the SIMCARD,
otherwise in close proximity of any size butt they start googling, dialing and texting.
It was not mandatory in this state until after this case I believe.
I went into this thinking she hit him by accident. But after watching this whole trial, I just don’t believe she had anything to do with this and someone else did this.
I figured she was at least drunk. I don't even believe that anymore.
I am convinced it was snowing ❄️ that’s about all I can say for sure.
Same here
99% of people nowadays have cameras,ring cameras or something of the sort so where is any footage from neighbors?!?!
Same here
Makes no sense how the tail light looks like that,because the Dighton Massachusetts cop said that the tail light had a crack in it.He never said that 90 percent of the tail light was gone. 😂And he was the cop that was waiting for them to come tow the SUV to Canton.
That's right. Barros was standing around outside in the snow waiting with the SUV. What else is he going to do but be looking at it?
When Karen gets acquitted The FBI will indict The Alberts, Trooper Proctor &Tully with their 3,074 page report
That's just crazy talk
The FBI and Federal Grand Jury found no evidence to support an alleged “frame job” or “conspiracy”. It ends there. There will be no indictments….if there were to be or any charges, it would’ve happened previously.
💯 💥❣️
I doubt it very much. Indict with what? There’s no more evidence to indict them with John’s death than there is to indict Karen. The police did a dreadful job and that is going to deny John justice.
@@traci2669 It's not 'crazy talk' to know they are the sole ones responsible for for the murder of John O'Keefe. Namely Brian Albert, Colin Albert, & Brian Higgins. The Feds didn't give the defense those 3,074 pages that is exculpatory for Karen Read if they thoughyt she killed John.
No job in the world you can get away with talking about a person like that and still be employed other than being a cop.
They probably aren’t up on their sensitivity training in that department. 😂
You’re right, any other job and you would very likely be canned!
Proctor has free speech, just like the rest of us. Let's see her attorneys texts talking about her. Better yet, let's see KRs texts to and from Turtle Boy. Rules for thee, but not for me.
@@Barb417 you don’t have free speech from employers.
Especially when it is regarding to whatever you are working on. Imagine if your boss discovered that you called a client, boss, or other employee a see you next Tuesday and you made fun of their medical conditions and you hoped they would unalive themselves? You will be fired.
@@Barb417her texts aren’t incriminating 😂 you are a mcAlbert or are you dirty Jen 😂
@@Barb417proctor is disgusting I feel sorry for his children especially daughter with a dirty cop dad that talks like that about women. Are you a dirty proctor
This state is assigning guilt where it is not warranted!
🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪, hello Vinny, from Ireland, have to say, am sick of the judge talking, getting up, down, walking around her chair, never seen a judge interfere so much, and have watched all the major trials from America the last 20 years. I'm seriously sick of listening to her.
💯
💯❗️
Lol Irish fan here too. Totally agree. The judge seems to me to be working on behalf of the prosecution. When the defence speaks she upholds every objection made against them even if it makes no sense. She also sighs and huffs and acts fed up with their efforts. So biased. Turns out the people involved know her. She should never have taken the case.
On the money 👍
@@lululiga333 hi Lulu,thanks for that,She is an attention seeker,wants to make sure she is seen and heard,it's a huge case in Boston,the defence did try and get rid of her,but to no avail, I don't understand Vinny not noticing how involved she is in interfering,by the way,,where is John's long sleeve shirt,??I might have missed that,, cheers,🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
John was invited to that house, dropped off at that address, and found dead at that location. What else do you need?
Agreed, the excop who suggested that no house search BS is a phony and a fraud
At the end of the day, to a neutral couch juror, the Commonwealth has provided:
A clear understanding of what the tables at the Waterfall look like, contaminated evidence, missing footage, proof of a google search unrelated to proving Karen ran over John, and proof of a couple having a fight all couples have had.
And it was snowing.
Cannot forget Trooper Paul learned stuff . 😂
And the inverted video
And that KR’s taillight was broken in the AM of 1/29/22 when the cops did a welfare check on the children. Go look. The jury will find her guilty.
There is reasonable doubt. If I was on the jury I would have to vote NG.
Karen should not testify. Bad idea.
She could turn her reasonable doubt case into a prison sentence.
I think she’s too high strung to be up on that stand.
Why did defence not ask a single witness why no photo was taken of the tail light before it went on the tow truck? Here in the UK the tow truck driver HAS to do it protect himself from accusation of damage!
I'm sure that'll be coming up soon when they call their witnesses to the stand or at the very least, they'll put it out there in closing arguments
Here too! They do a report that looks like it’s missing.
Great point
What Proctor said and texted was awful. But much more important is how could he possibly be objective in this investigation? It’s like the song by Shaggy…”Wasn’t me”
Intimidating ME is rather arrogant.
He never ONCE considered John was in that house. Karen said she saw John heading towards the front door when she left. The house should have been searched before the basement was replaced and the house sold at a loss.
The chief of police Berkowitz is scared of Brian Albert.
Brian is the cops coke dealer
He’s not scared. One dirty cop protecting another dirty cop.
Probably scared of him cause he has something on him
In each others pockets no doubt
It was a crack! Not the entire light. That is what the tow truck said
That’s what Sgt. Barros said.
It was a crack, until the cops plucked it apart.
Cracked with a piece missing, but not completely destroyed is what he said.
Yep , it’s gone from a crack until the car went to the sally port , after that it wash a smashed off lens ,
Also logically speaking , if the lens was smashed at the sally port , then those pieces of lens found on the lawn were definitely planted there !
Ah, yes of course.
I came into this not knowing anything and after watching ONE day of court, I could see this for what it is. FRAME JOB and a disgrace to justice.
Did the red solo cups give it away? Or was it the butt dials. If anyone else had a dead cop in their yard they would be detained in a cop car while their house was being searched. I knew this was set up from day 1. House sold basement floor replaced and the dog rehomed . One cop covering for his cop friends.
Hey Vinnie and chat, I started watching the trial because EDB was covering it. I knew very little except a brief summary. I wasn’t familiar with any of the conspiracy theories, and had never heard of turtleboy until he was brought up in trial.
I have to say that I am stunned that at this point in the prosecution’s case that we still don’t know how JO actually died. I’m even more shocked by the horrible evidence collection, the discarded cell phones, all of the butt dials, and don’t get me started on that Trooper Proctor and his text messages. Unless Lally produces a video of Karen hitting JO and driving off, I don’t know how any of the jurors get to guilty. I think sadly, we will never know what happened to JO due to the early determination by that trooper that it was Karen and never investigated any other possibility. Sure, free Karen Reed, but I’m mostly upset that we may not see any Justice for this, by all accounts, decent and kind man who’s life was tragically ended and the children whom seem to have lost all of their parental figures. I say shame on Lally and Proctor for not doing a proper investigation. JO deserved that at the least. Thanks for your coverage. I really enjoy you “unplugged”
The whole reason they are using 3rd party defense is b/c Karen wants justice for John. She puts herself through this to bring the McAlberts to the public spotlight. She always had a surplus of reasonable doubt.
I agree. I’ve been learning this evidence mostly in real time during the trial. One of my first questions was about the scratches/cuts on his arm, and the lack of bruises on the rest of his body. Another was the contested search by Jen McCabe. I’m still waiting to see the defense’s argument but the CW’s experts didn’t convince me. The fact that that none of them saw the body from the house or came out… that was weird.
But as the case has progressed I’ve been horrified by the lack of proper evidence collection, the confusing info, the apparent bias of those working on the case. The ring doorbell footage of her taillight does not look like the photo taken once the police had the car. The CW still hasn’t had the ME testify yet and that reconstruction expert… yikes. Even if he had been smooth and confident on the stand his theory of how the accident supposedly happened seems improbable at best.
I think for me, it seems the CW is asking us to believe a lot of coincidences. Phones destroyed a day before discovery, phone calls deleted by accident, screenshots turned over instead of devices, no bruises anywhere on John’s body, an inverted video, missing portions of video, etc. It seems the only thing I have to reconcile with the defenses case is when she was hysterical at the scene she said multiple times, “did I hit him!”? Could I have hit him? I hit him!” in different combinations, depending on who is asked. I can imagine someone thinking that after driving home intoxicated. And shame oh her (and all of them) for that. But the FBI’s crash Re-constructionists (from a neutral 3rd party not paid for by the defense) don’t believe the accident could have occurred the way the CW says it did. For me, that’s enough to set aside her comments as anxious blurt-outs.
There is a lot of evidence that makes me think another incident took place… something involving a fight. It could have even been an accident. The multiple male samples oh John’s pants gives me an idea what happened.
But I agree-one of the worst parts is how little respect John has received. As I heard a NY attorney say it, “If this had happened here there would have been hundreds of officers at the hospital, there would be public grief, and he would certainly be called ‘Officer O’Keefe.’ In this case? They didn’t even come out of the house.”
Karen’s constitutional right-and by extension, all of our right-to a fair trial is being decided now. So of course we are focused on Karen and the trial. Buy the real tragedy is that a man died and those who could have helped to bring his family closure were biased and so sloppy I doubt we’ll ever have resolute answers, let alone a conviction.
When I observe Canton police, the DA, the powerful families, even this judge it feels like “something is rotten in the state of Denmark.”
The biggest question I've had is HOW, currently, people still believe she's guilty, despite everything we've seen saying otherwise. (Don't get me wrong, I think maybe she could have done it but the investigation and the presentation of this case shows soooo much reasonable doubt that legally I don't believe she can be convicted.) The overwhelming answer from people has been 'Occam's Razor', its the simplest answer that she hit him with the car... but it's NOT! To believe she did it, with the theory the CW has provided we have to ignore all laws of physics, all forensic medical analysis and all common sense! (Before you even get to the suspicion behaviour of everyone in that house that night - the Canton butt dials and brainworms are apparently a thing. You have to do some real mental gymnastics. We maybe could have gotten there before they had Trooper 'Expert' on the stand. It's sooo telling that they spent so much more time, money and attention on defending the 'Hos long...' search than they have on proving KR did this. They could have spent that money on an independent reconstructionist. However, my theory is that no independent entity would take THAT data (or lack thereof as they measured nothing and the position of JO'S resting place was pointed out by someone who wasn't even on the scene until after he was taken to hospital) and put their reputation on the line to present this. Its a real s*!t show.
I also had no context before watching this. I'd just finished the Daybell trial and went back to catch up with this one and my British butt is STUNNED that this even got to trial. I've never seen anything like it, except maybe the OJ trial.
Hey fellow lawnerd ❤😊
@@Ieezeca I completely understand what you’re saying. I just hope that once this case is over, the FBI figures out what actually happened and that whomever it was is criminally charged. Listening to the voicemails this morning only proved she was genuinely pissed at him and trying to get him to come home. If she hit him, she didn’t even realize it. But I have a feeling the experts are going to say his injuries did not come from being struck by a vehicle
Can't wait for when closing arguments happen, I like when closing arguments take place because it sounds so much better when it's puts together & makes more sense of everything, I still think defense is winning, I really don't think Karen at all did this, John's arm definitely looks like a dog attack & his face was beaten up, maybe John didn't go in the house Maybe John was beaten up on the front lawn & the dog attacted John & John passed out in the snow cause he was beaten up so bad & John then frozed to death with having hypothermia & the Alberts & the McCabes knew what had happened & they all tried covering it up. Because they all knew they would all be held accountable & because Trooper Proctor knew the families & Trooper Proctor Hated Karen & Trooper Proctor Tampered with the evidence & made it look like it was Karen that did this. one thing, is, The Judge is very Biased she always sustains everything, she always rushes everything, she always has an attitude, I don't care very much for this Judge.. She should of been removed.. I believe Karen is definitely 100% not guilty & all the ones involved should be charged & if I was Karen after this is over I would file a civil suit & sue them all.
It already came out that they all agreed to say he never went into the house. Which made it obvious that he did.
Vinnie, Who books your guests on your main show? They need fired! Asap. Try getting credible people on like Andrea Bukhart or Melanie Little who actually show intelligence, have watched the whole trial and have common sense. Thanks
Don’t think he can get many credible guests that’s why he has what he has
@@michellesayers5346 I'm sure if they reached out they'd have a few who would do it even for free. Lawyer Mark Bederow would be a great guest
@@michellesayers5346anyone would be better than Kevin. I think he is also accused of faking cancer to get in the news several years ago
Agreed.. can’t stand to see it
They r animal bites . I dont think the car gave him those cuts or bruises.
The jury is also allowed to be so disgusted with Proctor, McCabe or Lally that they just acquit. Jury nullification.
All Americas should learn and know about Jury Nullification. Even though we aren't "supposed" to know, if you get my meaning.
@@dailyqwikbytes it’s the last thing big brother wants people to know. But they have every right.
@@Joeypots Precisely.
@joeypots
Actually I think there's a very good chance that will happen. If I were on the jury that's exactly what I would do.
Too many things don’t add up. Wrong addresses, wrong reports, blood dna with 3 male profiles on his clothes yet no blood dna on the car. The house dig up, the dog rehomed
The proctors 2nd family . Come on no one gets that special treatment unless it’s being covered. Pig ear dog treats are pig DNA
One girl in the house that night had a breakdown and hasn’t worked since. Tell me that isn’t intimidating.
It’s a real sad case.
I came into this knowing nothing. I believe all people involved were drunk. Three options:
1. There was a fight, and he was hit and thrown out. Don't think they meant to kill him and thought he left.
2. Karen hit him unknowingly because she was also drunk
3. The dog attacked him, he fell, hit his head and passed out in the cold. The owners of the house didn't know how to explain a dead man on their property, so they aligned their story.
The problem is that the police decided on one option and then tried to fit the evidence.
I completely agree. Those are the three lines of inquiry the police should have investigated, and ruled out with credible evidence until they had one. But since these are three very plausible options, and none can be ruled out, they cannot convict Karen, they just cannot. That is more than reasonable doubt.
I think there may be more to it - the cops have a lot more liability than your options allow.
That photo Vinnie has up is a complete sham. That’s what it looked like after the police finished pulling it apart! How can they talk about the light at all when no one took a contemporaneous photo of it before it was placed on the tow truck?
If you had a completely apolitical, unbiased crown prosecution service reviewing all major cases before they are allowed to go forward like we do here in the UK,I’m sore this case would have been thrown out.
In most court houses of the US, this case would have been thrown out or rejected with deep apologizes to the victims family by the DA. No US lawyer I have heard of has no idea how this trial got to trial. The investigation itself has a few dozen things that trigger reasonable doubt, and that’s without any testimony.
This case would have been thrown out in 80% of the U.S.
He’s a dirty cop supporter
@@rachelann9362 Nancy Grace. She never met an (even just) ACCUSED, (not even technically a defendent yet) she didn't want to guillotine as soon as she heard their name. Even The Inquisition or the KGB would have been going "Nancy..babe..you need chill.."
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Trooper Paul on direct said Officer O'Keefe was hit at a certain location, and on cross he changed the location. He didn't include all the key cycles, so where did he get his data from? He is not qualified for the role of accident reconstructionist. Let's put it that way: as a prosecutor, would you call him to testify? According to him, the car hit him in the arm, he swung, hit his head on the curb, and is projected 20 feet away. The body would have been projected perpendicular or at an angle to the rood, not parallel to the road. If the taillight exploded at impact, there would be also cuts to the torso/hip area. I'm not an expert in aero dynamics, but the taillight flew upwards? He had very little evidence and a great deal of assumptions, not corroborated by science.
Vinnie thinks he’s good though 😂
Oh, I don't even want to get started on Trooper Paul he's a joke, an absolute joke
John’s arm shattered a tail light but didn’t sustain any fractures or broken bones. That didn’t happen.
Does not Julie’s brother and 2 friends testimony count waiting in their truck behind Karen. They said they saw her alone sitting in her Lexus outside of 34 Fairview drive. Doesn’t it mean John had already exit the Lexus while she sat there alone with the interior car light on.
Yes, exactly. Karen let John out at the foot of the drive before pulling up to make room for the F-150 with the Ryan Nagle party in it. The F-150 got there at 12:23 am based on the texts. So, John was already walking up the drive at 12:22 am. The police photos of the property never show the hinged gate to the backyard that is next to the garage/drive (see Zillow). I think John went through that gate to pee before entering the party. But it was the exact same time that Chloe had been let out, and she went after his arm and caused him to fall on pool cement, twice. I think the Alberts found him dead hours later and tried to stage it as a plow accident. The theory about the basement was based on John's phone showing he took 80 steps and 3 sets of stairs. I think only his phone took the stairs. Someone took it inside to look at it. I think they took John's body out the same gate he entered, next to the drive, and then they moved it to the flagpole area in the Ford Edge that was Brian Albert's work vehicle. John's body was dragged from the vehicle and lost a shoe in the dark. There are many possibilities for exactly what transpired, but I think this was an unintended death, and I don't think John ever entered the house. I think he died in the backyard and had been in cardiac arrest for many hours when first responders found him in the front yard. They delayed pronouncing him, but he was long dead.
They said they saw both Karen Reid and John arrive at the same time. Then as they drive away, they saw the inside light in her vehicle and Karen Read in the driver seat. The reason the light was on is that John O'Keefe was stepping out of the vehicle. They did not see John outside in the dark but they did see Karen Read inside with the light on
Have we seen the police body cams yet?? Oh wait....no we haven't because THEY WEREN'T WEARING THEM 🙄
File it with the disappearing video. I counted four times so far.
I broke my shoulder in 3 different spots by falling into the back deck, i have a hard time recocile getting hit by a 7000+ vehicle and not have any broken bones
The only way a tail light is breaking while hitting someone is if there is something behind the person that keeps them from being pushed away and there would be obvious other injuries.
I hope you are Ok the shoulder its very painful. I felt in last December put my foot in a hole and fall and hit and dislocated my shoulder and it’s the most painful thing I ever had. I still have tiny pain but took me months to recover.
He gets hit by a car and his knees don’t get clipped. He isn’t hit in the ribs. If we would have started with the alleged car accident this wouldn’t have lasted 6 weeks.
Why would she testify. They have this won. The only thing that could do is snatch defeat from the hands of victory.
Afterwards, she can participate in news documentaries and get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and get the truth out!
Msp is totally incompetent I hate living in Norfolk county
I came into this case with no preconceived notions of guilt or innocence. So far the prosecution has not met the burden of proof.
Not even close!
How do you explain the body being found on a thick layer of snow, based on leaf blower video, where we see the blood? At 12.15am, there was barely any snow, based on library and street videos?
Why no pictures taken before it was towed. Thats crazy not to mention the one outside cop "Dighten cop" said there was a piece missing but not destroyed.
I started at the beginning not knowing anything and I actually laughed when defense said she was framed. After watching they have kind of convinced me. All the phones missing, butt dials, proctor. It’s all just too crazy. One thing is for sure they have not proven that Karen hit him.
This! I was kinda taken back when he said that in opening. The defense under promised and over delivered so far in this case. I've been shocked by the evidence and lack of evidence. The prosecution over promised and has severely under delivered . . . as in hasn't delivered at all to me from their confusing opening.
No way she’s guilty
Trooper.Paul who is the reconstructionist couldnt even prove that.... it was probably, one way..... that does not prove she did it and he is what their case is built on. NOT GUILTY
I would rather witness 5 guilty citizens skate charges before witnessing 1 innocent citizen go to prison for a stretch.
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Proctor’s behavior was unacceptable under any circumstance, at any job. If he doesn’t get fired (at the one occupation where they’re legally allowed to detain civilians) It will be the biggest judicial miscarriage of all. It alarms me that you think the only reason for a cop to be fired is if they do something illegal- what other job functions that way? And those are jobs with FAR lower stakes. My best friend has more regulatory oversight as a hair dresser! I think he’ll be fired, or there will be actual mobs with pitchforks outside their station. Let’s have higher expectations for the people we entrust with our safety and well-being. Another attorney made the fantastic point- imagine being a young woman pulled over for a dui or something; and the officer detaining you is Proctor. That’s not even touching on his inability to ever testify again- he might’ve impacted the Walsh case, for God’s sake.
The "planted" taillight pieces are so phony!
The cops were planting broken pieces of taillight and others were looking for the planted pieces of taillight. Team work makes the dream work.
There is a difference between "cracked" and "broken"
Would it had been a good idea for the defense to FOIA record images of prior police dog attacks for comparison, Was Higgins plow swabbed for testing?
They never investigated them, until the Feds came in
This should come out in defence
Was there blood on her car taillight?? Noo right?
Vinnie there’s a reason why we are here in your UA-cam channel.
We value your insights!
I believe you are a respectful, credible and honest human, in no way do I see you as a SENSATIONALIST!!
😊 You are very much appreciated, truly enjoy your lives and your reporting in COURT TV 😊
Vinnie your cool AF.. adore you. You smart and handsome and I learn a lot about law by watching you thank you
He’s biased on this
Most people today have CCTV cameras at their house. "They to will see what I see!" I watched all the videos of Karen driving by CCTV cams and there is NO WAY her light was as broken as the police showed the light! That rear light passing by the cams at night would show up on the inferred cctv cams as bright white light, as bright as a headlight! "with or without the brake pedal being depressed!" What the cops don't show you? Is video of Karen's SUV going past the same cameras she travelled on her route home with the light as broken, as cops show that light now! If they put the light back on the SUV and drive by the same cameras at night and compare it to Karen driving by those cameras on her way home. You would clearly see the huge difference! I've had CCTV cams for 25 years I can spot a broken tail light at night for over a mile away!
Just pure gaslighting. They want us to pretend that we didn’t see what we saw. That tail light was broken when Karen hit John’s car.
Hi Mike.. u must have multiple degrees to look down upon Nick the hairdresser. This case must be soo messed up that a hairdresser and a stay at home mom can figure it out and see math aint mathing. Just a thought from a illiterate human being. We all want justice for John. Who ever is guilty beyond reasonable doubt must go to jail. But you cannot be dishonest and untruthful if you want justice to prevail. Justice for those who are not guilty!!
I don't feel like a Karen Read supporter because I do not like her, even a little. However, these charges make no sense to me, as there is no evidence that John was struck by a car. I see no motive for anyone to hurt him. I'm inclined to think he suffered an unintended death in the backyard because he entered the gate next to the garage to pee before entering the party. It was the same time that Chloe was out, ~12:22 am. I think Chloe attacked John's arm and caused him to fall on pool cement, twice, and that he was found dead hours later and his phone was taken inside and upstairs. Then someone in that house made a drunken decision to stage it as a snowplow accident and John's body was taken through the same gate he entered and moved in the Ford Edge to the area of the flagpole. He was dragged from that vehicle and lost a shoe in the dark. If Karen had not come unhinged that morning, calling attention to herself and making herself a target with all the talk about the taillight, they probably would have blamed the plow. It's obvious the taillight pieces were planted.
For a person who doesn’t like KR you do spin a tale of speculation of what happened inside the house.
the simplest explanation is she did it because of her unhinged jealousy, which I had no idea about till this trial. The truth comes out first ‘ I did it’ ‘ could I have done it.’
Why even think it if she saw him go in the house - purportedly. Makes zero sense her even questioning it.
Every other theory is so convoluted.
Police were idiots for messing this up big time and there is mountains of reasonable doubt and a guilty person will go free and the real victim here officer John o Keefe will never have justice.
OJ 2.0 of this generation.
Don’t be silly 😂
@@marlbboro8091I disagree. I don’t think that’s the simplest explanation. It asks us to believe a lot of coincidences and faulty physics.
@@marlbboro8091there is absolutely 0 chance he died from a car strike
John looks like he was in a fight because he was in a fight. That’s why the basement floor was replaced and the house was sold at a loss. Don’t overthink it. The Prosecutor decided that John was hit by a car. He never even considered John made it inside. Red solo cups and grocery store bags ended this.
There’s got to be a reason that the prosecution hasn’t called ME. Defence will
She is coming today
Her testimony doesn’t support a car accident.
The shoe coming off should not assume it came off because of a car accident. They could have dragged him outside and his shoe coukd have come off.
He’s knocked out of his shoes but held onto a glass? Didn’t happen.
Another plant to make it look like he was hit by a car.
Small town, terrible policing, circus court, zero justice for john's family. Absolitely terrible and waste of taxpayer money.
Have you seen the crazy shovelling of snow? Have you seen some of the pieces were so clean, and they were supposed to be under the snow?
Yes! Proctor is SUSS!
Some from that house killed him, the evidence doesn't tell us who but it does show some did. The evidence shows me that it most certainly is a frame job.
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If our taillight looked like that photo, we wouldn’t say my tail light is cracked, we would say it’s missing or broken. I doubt it would be missing from hitting someone’s arm with not a single bone broken, not even black and blue. There is something else that happened to John. Fact is, the cops all had a life raft, and Karen didn’t. I don’t think they liked John or Karen.
I agree 100%! I wouldn’t say cracked.. it’s so bad in their pics, I would honestly the rear end was crashed.
That’s a definite chance - esp after hearing the investigators texts ☺️
So they want you to believe that after having 9 drinks, in heavy snow , and on a uphill curvy road, Karen Read drove 62' at 24 mph in reverse at night to hit John O'Keefe. I don't think that's possible. Most people wouldn't be able to handle a vehicle at that speed for 30' on dry roads in reverse
Apparently Karen Read is a professional stunt driver at night when she's hammered and driving in a snowstorm.
I can’t get past 4 instances of missing video that would prove that Karen’s tail light was in tact.
@@karinaz8756 💯 If looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... It's a cover up.
@@snowwhite2524 the prosecution is never getting passed that house being searched. The shoddy investigation is the cherry on top.
The trigger event was on the wrong key cycle. The trigger event happened during the tow. Joe Paul did not define any times when what he alleged happened. And, based on witness testimony, Karen was still waiting out front for John at 12:45 am.
The mileage of the trigger event was listed. And the milage when the car was seized was listed. And we knew where Karen Read drove in between , and the difference in milage is the same number of miles that Karen Read drove. So we know that the trigger event at that mileage occurred outside 34 Fairview
When Karen left to go search for John, and she bumped his car, you see her light is intact !
I don’t know how this isn’t talked about more tbh. We have video of her car hours after he’d been hit and it does not match the police evidence photo from a couple days later. Its appearance changed some time after his death, once in police custody. That should be the end of it, tbh. But people ignore it somehow.
@@foreverwander0320 maybe the defence will bring this up and more, should be interesting to see their evidence and thoughts, should be good, I’m sure they will show us that it couldn’t have happened the way the prosecution says it did, to me it’s all highly suspicious, proctor really was something else, he hated Karen!
You can see that her light is broken as she drives away. And she admitted in her nightline interview that her taillight was broken and she discussed it with Kerry Roberts and Jen McCabe at 5 am
@@bethpatriots7290 funny how that video of Karen and Jen at the tail light dissapeard. not broken to pieces maybe cracked
Vinny is so relatable and I know he is going towards not guilty. I’m a first responder and honestly I’d say not guilty. Those marks really look like a dog bite and claw marks.
Was a first responder as an EMT then paramedic for a decade. The injuries were not from a hit and run. The arm always looked like an animal attack. This should never have gone to trial
I think the Alberts will skate, unfortunately! I think Proctor will take the biggest hit. The Alberts will once again let him take the fall!
Considering Proctors higher up was part of the text stream and they have not said a word for 2 years, I worry.
It can be a motor vehicle accident with a snow plow. Brian Higgins needs to be fully investigated
Vinny, cmon I know you gotta play both sides but really and truly do you think in your heart of hearts that his injuries on arm are from tail light or more like dog bite?? Seriously
Couldn’t agree with you more as the prosecution failed to connect the dots!
A special squad went over the ground, each man standing right next to the other and they found nothing.
They did find some things. They were the ones who found the shoe. A few pieces of taillight too. But they showed up at like 5 pm when it was already dark and way more snow had accumulated.
Yes Vinnie the technology evidence proves the sickening, crumbling frame job, the defense has not even started. Beyond reasonable doubt.
Unfortunately the FBI won’t do sh**, however you’re going to hear a lot of early retirements and a police press release saying they will be reinforcing procedures from now on. Unfortunately the status quo stays the same.
It’s a real shame when crooked officers are allowed to retire. They get to keep their pension then. They should be fired, in my opinion. But if none of the Uvalde officers were fired for their gross inaction during a school shooting, I doubt these doofuses related to this case will face any real consequences
The FBI will confirm that John wasn’t hit by a car. That will go miles in helping Karen clear her name.
IMHO if I were a juror and found out after the trial that the homeowner replaced the flooring and rehoused the dog and that the judge has a known relationship with the family involved I would be furious. Not to mention that the judge may rule against the dog bite expert or limit the testimony of her and the highly qualified accident reconstruction experts. You know the ones with doctorates in engineering and bio mechanics.
If the state is after justice and wants to punish the person who killed JO then let the defense experts speak. He and his family deserve better.
Tow truck driver said it was cracked not broken out like that and no way could JOs body broke it out like that.
Fbi needs to carry this through
And Kevin lives in his mother’s basement!
Nick Rocco has intelligence and states facts!
Kevin is brain 💀
I'm Dutch and didn't know anything about this, until for the last month this case became popular on social media, I do hate drunk drivers but during the last few weeks became more and more in daubt if she did this.. and in this case 100% convinced it is better to let someone guilty walk free, just to make sure the Law and police follow procedures ..
you need procedures to be lawful to protect others and yourself to get destroyed by dirty cops and incompetent Judges.
His shoes came off in that house ! That shoe was planted like the rest.
Impossible
@@bethpatriots7290 not Impossible It’s fact! His own phone data shows him using stairs !!!! Jen Jen best be careful 😂
That picture of the cops outside in the snow could be looking for pieces of the tail light. But it doesn't say anything about what they found. And it doesn't show the tail light. That picture is just a distraction. Means nothing.
Police department takes up half the city budget but not a single cop had a bodycam. This never should have gone to trial.
Where’s all the blood??!
WHY DID THE POLICE NOT TAKE PHOTOS OF THE CAR/tail light WHEN SEIZED? case closed
"Allegedly" Vinnie. Innocent until proven guilty!
It takes 408 pounds of pressure they said to cause that light to shatter, apparently it will come in from expert.
Then it was impossible for the taillight to break from on tapping John's bumper
Where is his blood? His blood is where he died! And that wasn’t where he was found! Follow the facts! The Alberts replaced their basement floor. There’s your sense!!
You're making good points here for the prosecution. I'll admit, I was in the middle coming into this.. open minded, wasn't sure what to think..
However, you're mentioning the snowplows pushing stuff in big snow piles, making it unable to see.. and they specifically mentioned those pieces were found closer to where John was found.. in the fresh snow, not in the snow piles.. I'm not sure still about anything here.. but! I do know the MSP and Canton PD really screwed this up from the beginning. They mentioned an unattended death, not knowing the cause... why didn't they secure the crime scene? Treat it as a homicide from the first second.. if you find out it was an accident later on, then great. At least you have all the evidence properly cared for..
But there is NO way to tell what the tail light looked like BEFORE the cops had it in their possession. I’m not law enforcement and I would know to take photos. It’s ridiculous to use these photos for making one’s mind up. The photos mean nothing without some proof of before and after. Looking to the tail lights for proof is just clutching at straws.
There actually is a way, there is video of her pulling out of the driveway in the morning on her way to look for John. You can see the taillight and it looks mostly in tact-not broken as it appears in the police photos later.
It’s ridiculous to continue to believe that John died in a car accident and didn’t have a single broken bone. He flew through the air shattered a tail light with zero injuries below the chest. Why are we haggling over a tail light.
Vinnie, Good Evening..
How many different "F - Ups" will there be that are appealable, should Karen Read be found guilty? It seems like a lot... A LOT!
I have a question that is getting lost. If there was no car accident and she didn’t kill him, How did this guy get dead? Unless an alien came from outer space someone in that house must have done this. Don’t you think?
His friends roughed him up and then set her up😑
He got beaten up
Fight in the house, he fell back and cracked his head open, the shady LE connection mcalberts covered it up. it's that simple.
In the audio recording where Karen supposedly "confessed" (she said this was all a joke), Karen herself said John was beaten by Brian and Colin Albert.
So there's that.
The exact quote: "ok, you're aware he was beaten up by Brian and Colin Albert? We're all in on the same joke, right? My taillight's cracked and John is pulverized."
Day 20, near the end of Buhkenik's direct.
John was also missing 3 liters of blood that wasn't in the yard.
At the end of day, a man is dead. He's gone and the case has been all about a woman who is still alive. Where is the justice for Officer O'Keefe?
It seems she would rather the focus be on him and who killed him too.
Blame the cops that framed Karen . They couldn’t be bothered to come outside when he was dying on the lawn.
polycarbonate material is designed to be impact resistant and can take on 900 pounds of impact.
But somehow John’s arm shattered and his arm wasn’t broken or fractured.
I want to hear from the ME. If the injuries on his arm were caused by being hit with car then wouldn't there be glass in his wounds?
It’s just impossible to get those wounds from a car strike
Does anyone not see the cuts are on the inside of the arm not outside how would that happen
They are on the outside
Nope. The shoe in the snow is black. I don't see white soles.
This trial is just a circus.
Pig DNA= Chloe had pig ears or some other pork based "treat" before she attacked John O'Keefe.
What evidence
Pig DNA-: dog food ???also no broken bones ?? Surely impact would break his arm ? No broken bones seen! Very strange to me!
I had a dog at one time that couldn't be around people. When someone came over, I would give him a pigs ear to keep him occupied.
@@kristenpino4635 yep exactly! Our boy loves a pigs ear too! Explains it somewhat doesn’t it! Xx
Vinnie has Dog punctures.
😅😂😅
At the end of the video where she hits johns car, you can see a lot of red in the right rear tail light as she drives away. It looks nothing like the tail light post-proctor. Case closed, it couldn’t have happened the way the prosecution said it did.
A re enactment with a car like Karen’s in John’s driveway in the same conditions with the taillight in tact may be helpful.
Great show as always
I think anyone who has ony watched a police crime drama could have done a better job at the crime scene.
Chain of custody, evidence markers, photos of evidence in situ, proper evidence bags are all things that. seem to be unheard of by anyone investigating this crime.
You mean red solo cups and grocery store bags isn’t protocol?