Johan Segeborn as for this amp i have to say its pretty sweet and would say its tones are the sweetest ive heard in a long time.....also my les paul is complete here are the changes to a standard les paul traditional 2008 desert burst, 1.klusons changed to grover 502-c locking tuners. 2.total pro re-fret with hi quality vintage fret wire. 3.classic&classic plus changed for seymour duncan slash pro 2 humbuckers. 4.vintage wiring loom and switchcraft pots the one that help with treble bleed also vintage bumble bee caps and switchcraft jack. 5.faber hybridge vintage aged nickel bridge with 3 titanium saddles and thee bell brass saddles. 6.lightweight aircraft grade aluminium tailpiece and good straplocks. 7.hand made bone nut. and boy does she sound sweet i truly am happy ive turned a good guitar into an awesome guitar.
I have a 1971 Marshall metal panel. I love the early Hendrix and Cream tones which were more of the bass circuit JTM 45/100. I changed the tone stack to super bass with a 100pf bright cap on Volume I and put in a switch to go to split/shared cathode (lead/bass) 47k nfb. I have the .1 output caps. Compared to the .022 output caps you just have to lower the bass knob to 4. With the .022's I would set the bass at 10. The split/shared is a nice way to go from warm to bright in a nice way. I think the 500pf or higher is overkill and makes a bright Marshall too bright. Also no .068 bypass cap it gives more mids. I love the big fat sounds of the early Marshalls. Excellent video!
Coolest demo ever! Wild how when one change is made, it alters the tone completely! And, I'm amazed at how much better it sounds doing it the Marshall way, by changing several things to get to the 71 or 74 lead spec (for example)! PS - That stock 1987x tone NEEEDS the bright cap AND 47k NFB to be awesome (IMHO)!
Alters it for sure, but is still ALL Marshall! Just goes to show that even with the component differences, it's all still in the Marshall family. My '74 1992 was modded to full on Super Lead specs, and has a cascaded pre-amp, and is a gain monster! I love the last ('74-'76) of the metal face era amps! With the cascade, it sounds like a meaner, and gainier, chewier and gritty angry relative of my '78 2203, which sounds killer in it's own right. Nails perfectly ACCEPT " Restless and Wild" tone as a reference. I love this stuff immensely..Great Video Johan and Mattias! Please keep 'em coming! Johan-do you or do you have any plans to do a knobs setting demo? It would be a killer way to show how tonally diverse these old jems are! My personal fave is pres:7, bass 4, mid 10, treb 7, preamp (vol II)10, volume to taste!
+Dr. Dan Amplifiers Thanks Dan! Yeah considering the small differences in circuit between many of the classic Marshall models, it amazing that many players are ready to buy one of each :-)
This is really fantastic. It inspired me to make some of these modes to my JTM45 clone, starting with the feedback resistor switch. Marshall has done all kinds of stuff with the FB resistor. Mine currently has the original JTM spec 27k from the 16Ω tap, which is a lot of NFB, though I've also seen 47k here. The later 100k came variously from the 8Ω or 16Ω tap, and I have one schematic of of a 1987 Lead MkII that shows 47k from the 4Ω tap, which is equivalent to 188k from the 16Ω tap - not much NFB at all! Fun stuff! Thanks again for yet another great video.
Thanks :) yeah i wonder what it would be like to increase the NFB resistor instead of lowering it, would like to hear the the difference sometime - Mattias
You should! I installed the switch yesterday, and just for fun, set it up to go from 27k (stock) to 247k. (The switch puts a 220k in series with the stock 27k.) It's off the rails in that position. With the amp up full, it's almost uncontrollable. Fun, yes, but is it too much of a good thing? Today, I'm changing the series resistor back to 68k, making a total of 95k, which is close enough... There was one year or two when Marshall had very little feedback. These amps were characterized by going from off to LOUD with the slightest touch of the knob. I once had a 100W head that I suspect was from this period. I named it the "Ear Splitter."
I guess you have to be a huge Marshall fan to really appreciate this. All these examples just sound to me like the general "Marshall sound", but with slightly different knob settings. I guess that's why I always like to have various completely different amps at my disposal, so I get get a truly wide range of sounds for different applications. :)
+George Kollaros The Reference amp here is a 1987x with a removed bright cap, the setting with bright cap engages a 500pF cap. The stock 1987X has a 4700pF bright cap which gives it a bright almost harsh tone. Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn I think George meant "stock" with no bright cap. That is how I use mine. A stock early 90's 1987x with no bright cap is pure Marshall heaven. :)
fantastic video Johan and Mattias. Congratulations. I always deny to remove the bright cap from my 1987x but I should finally do it.... I love this gentle playing of yours Johan.
PureToneAmps Thanks so much! :) just do it, and if you still feel you need a bright cap, maybe a 500pF or even lower would sound better in your ears. - Mattias
I want it stock as a reference sound but I hate the range of the bright volume. I'm afraid I'm gonna leave it there afterall. Cool amp Mattias. Enjoy it.
Great video! I was planning to do some of this mods to my 1987 clone, specially the switchable tone stack, now I know the differece in tone it makes on the same amp, and will evaluate if it worth the trouble to me. Keep on rockin' Johan!
there is a difference but they are so minute. I think it is amazing if someone was so dialed into their tone they knew what they were looking for and went for that specific year/mod. I always feel like a great guitarist can make anything sound good. This is just the next level of narrowing a tone to a specific flavor.
I've always liked the idea of one Marshall with multiple Marshall amp sounds. That's why I liked the JMD when it came out. I still like it, so easy to dial multiple Marshall tones at ease. This amp is similar to that idea. I like it.
if you can show in the schematic where in the diagram of the amp we can do it that mods at least the bright cap and the 0.68 bypass cap on v2 .. explain it in the schematic like a other videos.. would you please '
20 years ago I never would have said, pedals are so close to the tone you just need a good tube amp. It's true, All I really need for my sound is a good clean tube amp, an OD pedal, a reverb pedal, and a tiny bit of echo delay.
Cool Amp. I did a similar thing with my home built Marshall 50 but I also have a switch to change the cap following V1 from .022uF to .0022uF as a lot of Super Leads used the lower value. I also have a switch which essentially changes the circuit to a JCM800 style preamp and it also can take a valve rectifier like a JTM45 or it can be solid state.
The increase in value of the V1 cathode bypass resistor from .68uF to 330uF that you get when switching from split to shared cathode gives a ton more bass which changes the character of the amp the most(but only when the cap after V1 is the larger value of .022uF as the .0022uF strips out lots of bass also). Secondly the tonestack values, the earlier is more scooped.I never put a bright cap in mine as I think they sound terrible. I prefer the earlier circuit as it seems more flexible and full sounding, also prefer the solid state rectifier as the tone is more consistent.
Wow. At first I was thinking, I like all of them...then 8:53 and I thought, Okay I love the change to the bass stack..then more love...then 10:40...then I remembered, I don't have to pick a favorite....I can just like it all...and as always...want it all. haha. Thanks to you both!
For me, the best gain tone was stock. Most likely built and evolved that way for a reason. I though you were wise (yet again) to show the clean sounds. I found there to be more musically usable and nuanced tones. Including some Strat-like tone. I respect the mods he had made to the amp. Thank you for sharing.
All you need is ONE marshall...and places big enough that you are allowed to actually use it. Not too many of those around sadly. That's why this channel is so fun. If i tried to run a marshall 100 watter (or even a 50) turned up all the way I'd end up evicted and/or in jail. ha! keep it up.
Cooooool Demo Johan! 👍 But should I take it as a hint? That I don't need my 70+ Marshall amps and only keep one? 😄😄😄😄😄 It's a very instructive video clip that can help people get some grasp over how the development of the Marshall circuit changed the tone over the years. PS. And as you mentioned I the vids, components like resistor brand, valves, caps filtering and transformers also effect tone as well variance in tolerance and drift of components... Thanks for the clip! Helps me too! Best regards plexi
Another ace video by you Johan! Here's my two cents: all mods sound good but the reference sounded the best overall, at least to my ears. One can't go wrong with any of these configs. It's a great service you're doing to the guitar community by putting these videos out man! Keep 'em coming! Cheers!
Since you know a lot about Marshall amps, mind if I ask you a question? For a Jimmy Page sound (playing through a les paul), what do you think is the best amplifier to buy (I'm willing to buy used, if necessary) for around $1000?
thanks for another great video Johan...as for the amp, I liked it in the stock configuration for the most part. I guess they got it right in the beginning!
Bright caps are only engaged when volume/gain pots are set relatively low, once you turn up past 4 - their effect dies off anyways. Carvin solved this problem with a push pull volume pot for those low volume players. Another way to get past any harshness is to use long unbuffered guitar leads. That’s what is really behind all this, these engineers were solving the issues of touring musicians of the time with long guitar leads. They weren’t worrying about bedroom musicians 30 years into the future
No, that is wrong. You can definitely hear the effect of a bright cap as soon as you move away from "10". Moreover, in a Marshall Plexi circuit, low settings of the volume pot with the bright cap engaged are shrill sounding because highs receive full gain from that stage while mids and lows are dampened by the pot series resistance. In this type of circuit, you really need to use higher settings of the pot to appreciate the advantage of having the bright cap engaged. The rule of thumb is: You like low settings of vol I pot on your Plexi because you use it as a clean amp or you can't use higher settings because you don't have a master volume/attenuator? --> Disengage the bright cap You use high settings of vol I because you have a master volume/attenuator and you use the crunch tone of your Plexi? --> Engage the bright cap
loved the shared cathode, the bypass cap on V2 make the sound more compressed, probably give it a nice 3D feel to the playing...the bright cap was a little much, maybe a weaker effect would be to my liking. Making the negative feedback resistor smaller, gives the amp less gain and volume, which i also like very much. great for cleaner stuff... love this vid!
Great work ! I miss a bit comparing NFB taken from 8 or 4 ohms feed from the ohms selector and the 1974 680 nF at Presense Pot. But all in all great work !!!!
Very cool amp and video! Call me crazy but I think I liked the stock 1987x best. All sounded great though, very cool to be able to get all those iconic tones through a single amp!
Super trevlig video! Sålde min gamla 800 för några år sedan då den lät lite väl högt haha. Äran hade varit på min sida men vore trevligt att träffas, du kanske inte stött på en nittonårig gitarr lirande gear nerd förr? (y)
I really like the idea of "organic" tone shaping. I frequently substitute different NOS tubes in the V1 and V2 positions of my main amp to get different sounds. The difference in tone between tubes can be dramatic, and some tubes sound more "Fender" (lower gain & less compression) while other tubes sound much more "Marshall" (higher gain, heavy compression, and mid-range boost). I'm currently planning to have my amp modded with multiple parallel preamp tubes and switches on the face panel to toggle between them. If I can find a way to use a footswitch to toggle between the different tubes, that would be even better.
Stock was my preference as more open and 3d except for some of the finger picking that has the split cathode which to my ear opened it even more. But by all means tweak away! Much Thanks to you Johan, Matt and Peter.
+Lars Sig Thanks Lars! yeah when there are big differences between the settings and the same EQ settings are used throughout some settings will sound too bright or too dark. Cheers
Love it! Side question: have you ever used a Kemper profiling amp? I am curious to see how close a Kemper can get to profiling a cranked vintage plexi. Cheers!
+Matthieu R Thanks Matthieu! I have, they do more modern amps like JCM900 or Rectifier great in terms of tone, the dynamics of a real amp is harder to emulate though. I hope to demo it soon! Cheers Johan
Yes the caps swaps are key to a much improved tone in these amps. George Metropoulis did a very detailed analysis on his site of making one of these 1987X's sound "better". Involved a lot of pricey swaps including transformers to get it to sound "right". Better IMO to pickup one of the very well made hobbyist 1959/1987 clones floating out there in ebay land or on some of the enthusiast sites. Some of those guys do impeccable build work and these amps often sell for something in the 900-1200 ranged depending on 50w/100w and transformers used. I personally went with the "cheaper" Magnetic Components "Classic Tone" series and couldn't be happier with the tone from my OT. I suppose others prefer Mercury Magnetics, Heyboer, Merren, etc... but to me price aside, I thought the Classic Tone actually sounded "More Marshally" with the Heyboer a very close 2nd. I just don't think Marshall tried as hard as the folks on the Metro site did to capture the "magic" of the old Plexi circuits and get the parts right.
+D1m3b4gD4rr3ll It can be needed be done with cheaper components. In this clip Aleksander Niemand used the cheapest possible components to get a great plexi tone ua-cam.com/video/1Nj3HL-9-Xw/v-deo.html
Johan I love this video and all of them you make! What tap was used the most for NFB ? I have been tweaking on my 1970 SB to lead spec. My NFB is tied to speaker jacks. When I moved it to 4 ohms and used a 120K resistor it made the amp so much more versatile! Bass notes become way more controllable and it feels way less sterile. Better wider tonal character and feel. I hate the 47k resistor too much neg feedback chokes the hell out of these amps. Everyone should try it. I tried all of the standard stock arrangements first and when I tried it with the NFB wire unhooked I was blown away how it cleaned up especially at lower volumes. So I decided to go with some NFB but not too much. You should really try it out sometime. Even 100K on the 4 ohm but 120K is that much better. Almost makes it fenderish when you back off the guitar volume to clean it up. but still has all of the treble and grind you need for the CURANG too!!. Very guitar responsive.
Great video Johan! But is it me or the sound is a bit too compressed this time? I find the amp tone good but to my ears it sounds a bit too much compressed for some reason. Did you use any pedal or booster before the amp? I much prefer a more raw sounding Marshal instead. Maybe they did change something which resulted in a more compressed tone? Maybe that is what your friend wants! Thanks again!
I think the early 68' only had the 27k feedback resistor on bass models. Also the tap the feedback is takin from should be noted. Great video though! All of them are!
Igår var jag o en polare på 4sound i Jönköping och testade lite stärkare. Jag nämnde vid ett tillfälle, Segeborns grymma youtubekanal, för han som jobbade i butiken. Han log lite och en annan snubbe vid namn Peter tittade fram. Ni förstår sammanhanget va??:)
Peter är grym.. Han har moddat min 1987x med plexiboost med push/pull via treblevredet, samt stock återställningsbar PPIMV på baksidan.. Låter helt magiskt! Borde dock se över min bright cap.. tror med idelt googlande att värden runt 120pf skulle göra susen!
Erik Linder Va kul, mer pleximods åt folket. ja Peter är kung! PPIMV är väldigt användbart, har en i min med, men i klippet kördes den på fullt dock. tror också man klarat sig med ett lägre bright cap-värde, en smaksak. du får gärna återkomma med vad du tyckte, om du bestämmer dig för att byta värde :) ha det gött.
As a kid in the 80's I had and went through a dozen 1987 heads and tube combinations but could never get it right. I had to switch to 1959's to get the sound I was after; seems like these mods would have worked well.
Coolt som fan, men man blir ju helt matt av att lyssna och försöka förstå skillnaderna. Om ni måste välja en sättning, vilken skulle ni ta då? Har en 1987-klon som jag testat lite olika varianter av, nu är den typ som en 1987X tror jag. Låter skitbra, men kanske lite för likt min 2203. Man kanske skulle ta av bright-kondingen..
Tjenare Johan, känner igen namnet från Bojen. Din_mentor här ;) Ja kan tänka mig att det kan va jobbigt att särskilja ljuden, testat med hörlurar? Tycker definitivt du ska labba med brightcapen, antingen testa plocka bort den eller kanske välja ett lägre värde, ja så klart beroende på vad det sitter där idag då. hmm alla inställningar/moddar fyller sin egna lilla funktion men de moddar jag diggar mest är nog möjligheten till shared cathode och även 0,68 på V2. Peter som moddade min förstärkare heter woodstock på bojen.
Great demo, thanks. Unfortunately, the situations, where one can really crank up his amp that it unleashes this wonderful Marshall growl are much too seldom in real life - may it be in a band situation or even at home. So what stays left in 99% is, that you will use a pedal friendly amp and a good overdrive pedal. That' why I ended up with a Princeton Reverb with a 12" 100dB/A AlNiCo and a Box of Rock.
+Bob Boitt On the reference amp the bright cap was actually disengaged. The stock bright cap is only good for really high gain stuff, for anything else it's way to bright
Johan: I do like it with the cap disengaged. Leopold: I could see what you mean in a band many players like bright amps to cut through. to me, it hurts my ears and sounds brittle.
+Johan Segeborn What was the actual switching system for the different components? I'm interested in how the amp functions in terms of switching between the different components.
Diana Thompson My amp is a small Class A combo with no effects loop. I would love to have one so I can put reverb, delay, and EQ behind the pre-amp. The amp sounds fantastic as is, but an effects loop would make it EXACTLY what I want.
Hey Johan, maybe this is a late comment and question, hope you will see them! Congrats again on providing real tangible examples on how these differences sound! My question is, I have experienced 3 super basses (one 1972 and 2 1973), and all of them sounded fizzier than say, a super lead. From what I hearing in the example when in shared cathode mode, I'm hearing the same fizziness. Would you say shared cathode contributes to a fizzy sound, and going split cathode would alleviate that? THx.
NYC LP Player sounds like a cool idea! since it boosts both mid and gain it should be great as a boost, but of course only has 2 fixed modes: on/off = unable to set an exact boost volume, unless you make a more advanced mod of course, but try it - Mattias
Malmsteen was here in Melbourne 2015 and had 21 Marshall heads, he struggled for 25 minutes with feedback and squealing problems, then ended up just using 2 heads for the show and you couldn't tell the difference
Hey Johan Got any tone / eq tips for a marshall jcm800 2204x reissue head? I use a les paul traditional with classic 57 pickups and am finding some great tones working the guitar volume and tone knobs and boosting occasionally with an OCD Pedal (I don't use any distortion from the pedal -just the volume to hit the front of the amp a little harder) Given how many Marshall heads you have played - are there any standard bits of advice you would give for setting up a good classic rock tone? For example: 1) I see on some of the heads you turn the bass completely off - would you do this on the JCM800 2) You have also suggested a touch of bass via an eq pedal in the loop in some videos - would you do this on the JCM800? 3) Do you turn the Prescence off COMPLETELY? 4) treble settings (i, guessing very low as it is a very bright amp) I appreciate that the room, playing style etc all come into the equation but i am very sure that after all of these demos you must have a standard set up you know works best with each head type As always your most knowledgeable input would be appreciated
+Conrad Kriel Hi Conrad! 1) At high volumes I'd use as little bass as possible, provided that the sound is balanced on all strings. 2) I think the boosts of the outboard clip applies here too. 3,4) I always use as much treble and prescence as possible to use as much amp gain as possible, provided the tone don't get harsh, then I'd primarily compensate using the guitar pots Cheers Johan
Hi Johan Your response is much appreciated. I have stayed away from high treble and presence as i have found it harsh however i do work my volume and tone knobs, so ill give this a try this afternoon. I have finally got around to recording so as soon as i have some decent clips up ill send you links. Thanks again for the response
wow that is great, you are setting the standards here! I am the relatively happy owner of a 2245THW, what can Peter do for me ? Or I ask Aleksander Niemand as his Zagray! is making me feel like I have many of them plus more... Johan you need a Zagray! test vs the others to see how flexible it is. I am actually selling my 1960HW cabinet and keep my cream-back stack as you can tweak so much in a way that is so musically relevant on this marvel !
+e. tienne Thanks! I don't know if Peter offers this job but we can ask him if you want? And the Zagray! that's a big favourite of mine! There will indeed be more clips of that one later on. Cheers Johan
Johan. Tell your friend to try in stead of a 47K resistor and stock 100k tell him to try the stock 100k against a 220k or even a 270K in the NFB loop. That's what we've been running in all our Marshall's and Laney's it opens the amp up and every note feels like its alive right in you hand. just a thought didn't know if you guys had tried that yet its an incredible difference.
+Tim Stanley I never tried values that high. Seems like it would almost eliminate the negative feedback. Which output transformer tap are you connecting it to?
8 ohm tap. we used a 250K pot and a 220k or 270K resistor in the line and it brings the amp alive. Try it sometime its unbelievable if you like huge note definition.
+JED TAYLOR The Super Lead model 1959 had the same basic circuit until it was discontinued in 1990. And then the reissues have retained that basic circuit, which is not cascaded. I actually don't know how DSL and TSL have sourced the extra gain.
Johan that s very good, You ve as much possible, have expressed what you know about these amps. I m much appreciative that you do not add less than real time information. It is one of the great attributes you own in your service of content here on you tube. Enjoy yourself as well this burley weather week we ve experienced 4 tornadoes this week end and its been exciting and saddening as well. Again Johan , I thank you for your efforts.
Johan, do you understand the effect differences of a series gain stages verses stacked gain stages. I belive you do and this is my version albeit may not be exactly correct. In a short ......A series of gain stages can be one for each channel and a stack gain stage alignment can be one or both channels with both gain stages pushing together After I saw a video on running gain pedals in front of another it became the thought that this was stacked and series was one for each channel on the amp but not stacked. All in all I had made direct effort to play the different type of amps with the different alignment of gain stages.....to my amusement. They are offered on a few different amps and I ve not had the opportunity to get two amps made both ways.....But, I do have an idea the the pushing one to another creates more gain I wont say doubling because I ve not seen an amp where any two gain stages can be pushed without having some kind of noise gate.
Johan, as well as the amps do, I was thinking that they all do very well in how the tone evolves with the volume knob and the way they sound all have dynamic range to play in.....I will get a chance and learn the differences. Thanks as always for bringing the ability to open eyes and ears to the masses.
as far as I know, 500pF is not a common value. the 5nF cap was directly introduced during 67...from none/100pF value found on previous JTM series. But the right value is the one you like lol!
Did anyone try to bypass the Cathode Follower on a Marshall? And with what results? It seems not to be necessary, and it should give a ´colder´ sound. I am aware that it will reverse the phase, but I am not sure it matters, and if it does you could change the wires on the output.
You are right, but that amp is a strange animal. It has shared cathode components in the first stage, the tonestack is inside the FB loop, and it has a different phase inverter than other Marshalls, so who knows how much the missing cathode follower influences the sound :-) But thank you for your answer, and your fantastic videos.
looks like bass tone stack + 0.1 capacitors would make a bigger difference in lower frequencies and give different sound. For most cases I'll prefer refernce sound.
Hi, i have a Marshall JCM 800 MK II 100 watts head, I want to ask you if that amp have a bright cap or not?. I want to ask If that bright cap can make better de tone of my mk II or don't need it? Can you help me with this please?
Hi,. Yes it has a bright cap, if it's stock that is. if it'is better with or without it is subjective to what you like. did you like the sound of the 1987 with or without the bright cap the best? That could be your primary guide. either way, if you bring it to a amp tech he can disconnect it very easily, and you can try it both ways. Thanks. //Mattias
Hi Johan, just letting you know I tried the bass tone stack with the 2104, sounds great but the low end is a little sagy. I can see why they used this tone stack for the super bass, adds a lot of bass. I will change it back to stock though. Luke
There are many things you can mod with that kind of an amp, because of its point-to-point wiring. It's just Valhalla for "experiment guys" like me! According to me, the 500pF bright cap in a Marshall it's a far too high value. I also removed mine from my Mesa Boogie .50 Caliber+ from 1988, which I've been modifying for years now! The Long Tail Pair resistors and the coupling capacitors, as well as the Negative Feedback are the main components you can tweak according to your taste.
Best Marshall demos ever!! This guys off the rails!!
+Tim Stanley Thanks my friend!
Tim Stanley Thanks man! - Mattias
Very welcome guys!!
Very welcome guys!!
Johan Segeborn as for this amp i have to say its pretty sweet and would say its tones are the sweetest ive heard in a long time.....also my les paul is complete
here are the changes to a standard les paul traditional 2008 desert burst,
1.klusons changed to grover 502-c locking tuners.
2.total pro re-fret with hi quality vintage fret wire.
3.classic&classic plus changed for seymour duncan slash pro 2 humbuckers.
4.vintage wiring loom and switchcraft pots the one that help with treble bleed also vintage bumble bee caps and switchcraft jack.
5.faber hybridge vintage aged nickel bridge with 3 titanium saddles and thee bell brass saddles.
6.lightweight aircraft grade aluminium tailpiece and good straplocks.
7.hand made bone nut.
and boy does she sound sweet i truly am happy ive turned a good guitar into an awesome guitar.
Pure gold. If only I'd seen this when it was uploaded (six.. SIX... years ago). It'd have saved me a lot of tears (and money)....
Their demos are the best. Long live the Marshall amps!
+Eduardo Nucci Thanks Eduardo!
The shared cathode mod is the best thing to my ears. That really made the amp feel more alive!
+john tone I really like that mod too. As well as the 0.68 cap
I have a 1971 Marshall metal panel. I love the early Hendrix and Cream tones which were more of the bass circuit JTM 45/100. I changed the tone stack to super bass with a 100pf bright cap on Volume I and put in a switch to go to split/shared cathode (lead/bass) 47k nfb. I have the .1 output caps. Compared to the .022 output caps you just have to lower the bass knob to 4. With the .022's I would set the bass at 10. The split/shared is a nice way to go from warm to bright in a nice way. I think the 500pf or higher is overkill and makes a bright Marshall too bright. Also no .068 bypass cap it gives more mids. I love the big fat sounds of the early Marshalls. Excellent video!
+tonebender69 Thanks! Great feedback
.68 cap adds mids so funny you said no cap adds mids.
Coolest demo ever! Wild how when one change is made, it alters the tone completely! And, I'm amazed at how much better it sounds doing it the Marshall way, by changing several things to get to the 71 or 74 lead spec (for example)!
PS - That stock 1987x tone NEEEDS the bright cap AND 47k NFB to be awesome (IMHO)!
+Andy K Thanks! So good to hear that!
Andy K thanks so much for the kind words! :) - Mattias
Alters it for sure, but is still ALL Marshall!
Just goes to show that even with the component differences, it's all still in the Marshall family. My '74 1992 was modded to full on Super Lead specs, and has a cascaded pre-amp, and is a gain monster! I love the last ('74-'76) of the metal face era amps! With the cascade, it sounds like a meaner, and gainier, chewier and gritty angry relative of my '78 2203, which sounds killer in it's own right. Nails perfectly ACCEPT " Restless and Wild" tone as a reference. I love this stuff immensely..Great Video Johan and Mattias! Please keep 'em coming!
Johan-do you or do you have any plans to do a knobs setting demo? It would be a killer way to show how tonally diverse these old jems are!
My personal fave is pres:7, bass 4, mid 10, treb 7, preamp (vol II)10, volume to taste!
It's about time a video like this came out. I really dig what you have done here. Awesome tones and easily heard and explained!!! Wicked
+Dr. Dan Amplifiers Thanks Dan! Yeah considering the small differences in circuit between many of the classic Marshall models, it amazing that many players are ready to buy one of each :-)
Dr. Dan Amplifiers thank you, glad you liked what we did! :) - Mattias
Don’t know how I’m just finding this video. This is simply amazing!
This is really fantastic. It inspired me to make some of these modes to my JTM45 clone, starting with the feedback resistor switch. Marshall has done all kinds of stuff with the FB resistor. Mine currently has the original JTM spec 27k from the 16Ω tap, which is a lot of NFB, though I've also seen 47k here. The later 100k came variously from the 8Ω or 16Ω tap, and I have one schematic of of a 1987 Lead MkII that shows 47k from the 4Ω tap, which is equivalent to 188k from the 16Ω tap - not much NFB at all! Fun stuff! Thanks again for yet another great video.
Thanks :) yeah i wonder what it would be like to increase the NFB resistor instead of lowering it, would like to hear the the difference sometime - Mattias
You should! I installed the switch yesterday, and just for fun, set it up to go from 27k (stock) to 247k. (The switch puts a 220k in series with the stock 27k.) It's off the rails in that position. With the amp up full, it's almost uncontrollable. Fun, yes, but is it too much of a good thing? Today, I'm changing the series resistor back to 68k, making a total of 95k, which is close enough...
There was one year or two when Marshall had very little feedback. These amps were characterized by going from off to LOUD with the slightest touch of the knob. I once had a 100W head that I suspect was from this period. I named it the "Ear Splitter."
I guess you have to be a huge Marshall fan to really appreciate this. All these examples just sound to me like the general "Marshall sound", but with slightly different knob settings. I guess that's why I always like to have various completely different amps at my disposal, so I get get a truly wide range of sounds for different applications. :)
Truly AMAZING tone. Thanks for sharing it with us !
+jcm 900 Thanks! Glad to hear that. I loved it too :-)
jcm 900 Thanks man - Mattias
The stock sound is the most balanced, not too bright, not too bassy, not too smooth. Stock 1987x all the way!
+George Kollaros The Reference amp here is a 1987x with a removed bright cap, the setting with bright cap engages a 500pF cap. The stock 1987X has a 4700pF bright cap which gives it a bright almost harsh tone. Cheers
Thanks for clearing this up! I think that YOUR 1987x (reference) amp is the most balanced!
George Kollaros Yeah it sure is a superb allround rock tone! :) - Mattias
@@JohanSegeborn ok wow, i had a 1987x for years and never loved it, i think probably because of this cap. if only id known!
@@JohanSegeborn I think George meant "stock" with no bright cap. That is how I use mine. A stock early 90's 1987x with no bright cap is pure Marshall heaven. :)
fantastic video Johan and Mattias. Congratulations. I always deny to remove the bright cap from my 1987x but I should finally do it.... I love this gentle playing of yours Johan.
PureToneAmps Thanks so much! :) just do it, and if you still feel you need a bright cap, maybe a 500pF or even lower would sound better in your ears. - Mattias
+PureToneAmps Thanks man! Glad to hear it. And you should take the leap with the 1987X! :-)
I want it stock as a reference sound but I hate the range of the bright volume. I'm afraid I'm gonna leave it there afterall. Cool amp Mattias. Enjoy it.
If I'll start screwing it I'll won't stop. I may remove that cap that makes the bright volume having a bad range......
+PureToneAmps it's probably better to have it as a reference amp considering the great tones you ger from your Pure Tone Amps
I like the way you did this comparison, rotating back to the benchmark!
Phat! So many classic tones in 1 head!
+hrstrat57 Thanks! :-)
The sound of rock!
+ADDICTED TO GEAR Thanks, indeed!
This is Great!!!!!! You always find the coolest stuff.
+Crimson Ghost Thanks! Glad you like it!
Johan, as always it was awesome!
+Andrew Zeleno Thanks Andrew! Glad to hear that man. Cheers
Great video! I was planning to do some of this mods to my 1987 clone, specially the switchable tone stack, now I know the differece in tone it makes on the same amp, and will evaluate if it worth the trouble to me.
Keep on rockin' Johan!
+Silvio Miano Thanks! You too man!
Silvio Miano Thanks for the kind words! :) - Mattias
there is a difference but they are so minute. I think it is amazing if someone was so dialed into their tone they knew what they were looking for and went for that specific year/mod. I always feel like a great guitarist can make anything sound good. This is just the next level of narrowing a tone to a specific flavor.
I've always liked the idea of one Marshall with multiple Marshall amp sounds. That's why I liked the JMD when it came out. I still like it, so easy to dial multiple Marshall tones at ease. This amp is similar to that idea. I like it.
+Chuck Nix Thanks Chuck!
Bright Cap 500pf ..0.68 Bypass cap on V2 two great mods# well done over the top this compared,, good job mr segeborn
+Orlando Aranguren Mendez Thanks! Glad to hear it!
if you can show in the schematic where in the diagram of the amp we can do it that mods at least the bright cap and the 0.68 bypass cap on v2 .. explain it in the schematic like a other videos.. would you please '
Really appreciate the clean portion of the demo as well. Thank you.
20 years ago I never would have said, pedals are so close to the tone you just need a good tube amp. It's true, All I really need for my sound is a good clean tube amp, an OD pedal, a reverb pedal, and a tiny bit of echo delay.
This will probably be one of my fave videos on this channel
Cool Amp. I did a similar thing with my home built Marshall 50 but I also have a switch to change the cap following V1 from .022uF to .0022uF as a lot of Super Leads used the lower value. I also have a switch which essentially changes the circuit to a JCM800 style preamp and it also can take a valve rectifier like a JTM45 or it can be solid state.
+neptune sundial Cool, which of the switches on your amp did you think influenced tone most?
The increase in value of the V1 cathode bypass resistor from .68uF to 330uF that you get when switching from split to shared cathode gives a ton more bass which changes the character of the amp the most(but only when the cap after V1 is the larger value of .022uF as the .0022uF strips out lots of bass also). Secondly the tonestack values, the earlier is more scooped.I never put a bright cap in mine as I think they sound terrible. I prefer the earlier circuit as it seems more flexible and full sounding, also prefer the solid state rectifier as the tone is more consistent.
7:42 sounds good with lead circuit and all the gain specs. scorps lovedrive !
+alex allastair Thanks, I love Scorpions
Wow. At first I was thinking, I like all of them...then 8:53 and I thought, Okay I love the change to the bass stack..then more love...then 10:40...then I remembered, I don't have to pick a favorite....I can just like it all...and as always...want it all. haha. Thanks to you both!
+Rick McCargar Thanks Rick :-)
Thanks for the positive feedback, appretiate it! :) - Mattias
Johan Segeborn
My pleasure, I love these videos!
dinmentor
You are welcome, and thanks for doing it. Love these videos! P.S. can you link to your youtube channel so I can follow you too? Thanks!
For me, the best gain tone was stock. Most likely built and evolved that way for a reason. I though you were wise (yet again) to show the clean sounds. I found there to be more musically usable and nuanced tones. Including some Strat-like tone. I respect the mods he had made to the amp. Thank you for sharing.
+Jim Grandstaff Thanks Jim
All you need is ONE marshall...and places big enough that you are allowed to actually use it. Not too many of those around sadly. That's why this channel is so fun. If i tried to run a marshall 100 watter (or even a 50) turned up all the way I'd end up evicted and/or in jail. ha! keep it up.
+Eli Friedmann Thanks! Yeah they're loud as heavy industrial machinery!! :-)
absolutely.
Cooooool Demo Johan! 👍 But should I take it as a hint? That I don't need my 70+ Marshall amps and only keep one? 😄😄😄😄😄
It's a very instructive video clip that can help people get some grasp over how the development of the Marshall circuit changed the tone over the years.
PS. And as you mentioned I the vids, components like resistor brand, valves, caps filtering and transformers also effect tone as well variance in tolerance and drift of components...
Thanks for the clip! Helps me too!
Best regards plexi
+pleximaster Thanks my friend! Whatever you do, DONT show this clip to your wife ;-)
My favorites are definitely the reference tone and the 50W Bass setting, maybe with a slight edge toward the 50w Bass setting.
+Keith Frey Thanks Keith!
And all these are switchable to this is what I did to my jvm this and more so it can do ever option love these videos :)
+NIKKI REAGAN Thanks, Glad you like them! :-)
Wow I wish I had this amp with the mods!!
amazing tones, all different, yet all Marshall.
+the Eiger Advocate Thanks, great to hear that!
Another ace video by you Johan! Here's my two cents: all mods sound good but the reference sounded the best overall, at least to my ears. One can't go wrong with any of these configs. It's a great service you're doing to the guitar community by putting these videos out man! Keep 'em coming! Cheers!
+morbidrockerdude Thanks, really glad you like the videos!
Hi .......Johan Happy Newyear !! All the Best Awesome Channal
+cy p Happy New Year to you too Cy!
Funny i was looking for the instruction video to put together my Ikea 'Voorstock' and came across this. Was not disappointed. : D
+Kelly Jackson hahahaha! Swedish furniture or Swedish dudes playing guitar? I see the connection :-)
Since you know a lot about Marshall amps, mind if I ask you a question? For a Jimmy Page sound (playing through a les paul), what do you think is the best amplifier to buy (I'm willing to buy used, if necessary) for around $1000?
Yes both the furniture and the men are from Sweden but one of them is better made and better built : p
some of these tones remind me of Zep tones too!
riktigt intressant. Bra jobbat pöjka
Tommy Köllner Tack för de goda orden :) - Mattias
+Tommy Köllner (Sonofamustangford) Tackar så mycket!
thanks for another great video Johan...as for the amp, I liked it in the stock configuration for the most part. I guess they got it right in the beginning!
Bright caps are only engaged when volume/gain pots are set relatively low, once you turn up past 4 - their effect dies off anyways. Carvin solved this problem with a push pull volume pot for those low volume players. Another way to get past any harshness is to use long unbuffered guitar leads. That’s what is really behind all this, these engineers were solving the issues of touring musicians of the time with long guitar leads. They weren’t worrying about bedroom musicians 30 years into the future
No, that is wrong. You can definitely hear the effect of a bright cap as soon as you move away from "10". Moreover, in a Marshall Plexi circuit, low settings of the volume pot with the bright cap engaged are shrill sounding because highs receive full gain from that stage while mids and lows are dampened by the pot series resistance. In this type of circuit, you really need to use higher settings of the pot to appreciate the advantage of having the bright cap engaged. The rule of thumb is:
You like low settings of vol I pot on your Plexi because you use it as a clean amp or you can't use higher settings because you don't have a master volume/attenuator? --> Disengage the bright cap
You use high settings of vol I because you have a master volume/attenuator and you use the crunch tone of your Plexi? --> Engage the bright cap
loved the shared cathode, the bypass cap on V2 make the sound more compressed, probably give it a nice 3D feel to the playing...the bright cap was a little much, maybe a weaker effect would be to my liking. Making the negative feedback resistor smaller, gives the amp less gain and volume, which i also like very much. great for cleaner stuff... love this vid!
+Jakob Stumpf Thanks Jakob!
LOVE YOUR CHANNEL .ENJOY ALL YOUR VIDEOS.
+JayJKay HouseOfHarley's Thanks! Glad to hear that'!
Yep George I agree..great Melody's.
I am going to have to start saving up for a Les Paul. Tasty. The amp sounds awesome in all configurations. Maybe I should move to Sweden.
+hachewie Haha,, you are so welcome here!
Great work ! I miss a bit comparing NFB taken from 8 or 4 ohms feed from the ohms selector and the 1974 680 nF at Presense Pot. But all in all great work !!!!
clean tone's so fucking beautiful
+은용진 Thanks the 50W bass configuration was a joy to play with cleans
Very cool amp and video! Call me crazy but I think I liked the stock 1987x best. All sounded great though, very cool to be able to get all those iconic tones through a single amp!
+Slashaholic Anonymous Thanks! Yeah it's a great amp as-is too.
Vilka legender!
Då inväntar vi bara den dagen jag får komma och varar guest i din kanal haha!
+Mike Hudson haha! Har du några video idéer, så säg till!
Super trevlig video!
Sålde min gamla 800 för några år sedan då den lät lite väl högt haha. Äran hade varit på min sida men vore trevligt att träffas, du kanske inte stött på en nittonårig gitarr lirande gear nerd förr? (y)
+Mike Hudson Jodå, gitarr och gearnerdar av alla de sorter! :-) Vilken stärkare spelar du på nu då?
Johan Segeborn
Gått igenom en hel del, 65' deluxe, orange dual terror, vox ac30 men landat på en Egnater Rebel 20 nu.
Funderar dock på en victory!
i thought the stock 1987X (reference) sounded the best? lol Great work fellas nice demo!
Thanks, the reference sound is just plain great so i understand why you think so :) - Mattias
awwnawmang ya I am Luke warm on the mods. These are the amps I actually use and they just sound so good stock . Thanx guys and always fun
The stock sound was great. No reason to mess around with it. Just rock out with it and enjoy it!
I really like the idea of "organic" tone shaping. I frequently substitute different NOS tubes in the V1 and V2 positions of my main amp to get different sounds. The difference in tone between tubes can be dramatic, and some tubes sound more "Fender" (lower gain & less compression) while other tubes sound much more "Marshall" (higher gain, heavy compression, and mid-range boost). I'm currently planning to have my amp modded with multiple parallel preamp tubes and switches on the face panel to toggle between them. If I can find a way to use a footswitch to toggle between the different tubes, that would be even better.
That's a cool idea!
Stock was my preference as more open and 3d except for some of the finger picking that has the split cathode which to my ear opened it even more. But by all means tweak away!
Much Thanks to you Johan, Matt and Peter.
+BicycleJoe LoFiSoundAndVision Thanks, the reference version had a removed bright cap here though.
Awesome, i prefered the stock sound though. I found some of the settings to be too nasaly, bright or fuzzy sounding
+Lars Sig Thanks Lars! yeah when there are big differences between the settings and the same EQ settings are used throughout some settings will sound too bright or too dark. Cheers
Yeah i'm quite aware of that effect. Usually i prefer the '68 lead, bass or superbass models
Love it!
Side question: have you ever used a Kemper profiling amp? I am curious to see how close a Kemper can get to profiling a cranked vintage plexi.
Cheers!
+Matthieu R Thanks Matthieu! I have, they do more modern amps like JCM900 or Rectifier great in terms of tone, the dynamics of a real amp is harder to emulate though. I hope to demo it soon! Cheers Johan
Johan Segeborn Try it with a tube power amp for a real air moving experience. Let us know your thoughts! :-)
Yes the caps swaps are key to a much improved tone in these amps. George Metropoulis did a very detailed analysis on his site of making one of these 1987X's sound "better". Involved a lot of pricey swaps including transformers to get it to sound "right". Better IMO to pickup one of the very well made hobbyist 1959/1987 clones floating out there in ebay land or on some of the enthusiast sites. Some of those guys do impeccable build work and these amps often sell for something in the 900-1200 ranged depending on 50w/100w and transformers used. I personally went with the "cheaper" Magnetic Components "Classic Tone" series and couldn't be happier with the tone from my OT. I suppose others prefer Mercury Magnetics, Heyboer, Merren, etc... but to me price aside, I thought the Classic Tone actually sounded "More Marshally" with the Heyboer a very close 2nd. I just don't think Marshall tried as hard as the folks on the Metro site did to capture the "magic" of the old Plexi circuits and get the parts right.
+D1m3b4gD4rr3ll It can be needed be done with cheaper components. In this clip Aleksander Niemand used the cheapest possible components to get a great plexi tone
ua-cam.com/video/1Nj3HL-9-Xw/v-deo.html
Johan I love this video and all of them you make! What tap was used the most for NFB ? I have been tweaking on my 1970 SB to lead spec. My NFB is tied to speaker jacks. When I moved it to 4 ohms and used a 120K resistor it made the amp so much more versatile! Bass notes become way more controllable and it feels way less sterile. Better wider tonal character and feel. I hate the 47k resistor too much neg feedback chokes the hell out of these amps. Everyone should try it. I tried all of the standard stock arrangements first and when I tried it with the NFB wire unhooked I was blown away how it cleaned up especially at lower volumes. So I decided to go with some NFB but not too much. You should really try it out sometime. Even 100K on the 4 ohm but 120K is that much better. Almost makes it fenderish when you back off the guitar volume to clean it up. but still has all of the treble and grind you need for the CURANG too!!. Very guitar responsive.
Wow!! The ending of the words is 500pf.
Nuff. Said.
beautifull as usuall thank you
+clinical depression Thanks! Glad to hear it!
Great video Johan! But is it me or the sound is a bit too compressed this time? I find the amp tone good but to my ears it sounds a bit too much compressed for some reason. Did you use any pedal or booster before the amp? I much prefer a more raw sounding Marshal instead. Maybe they did change something which resulted in a more compressed tone? Maybe that is what your friend wants! Thanks again!
I think the early 68' only had the 27k feedback resistor on bass models. Also the tap the feedback is takin from should be noted. Great video though! All of them are!
+SuperChamp - Thanks! I'm gonna ask Mattias, but I guess it's still at the (as far as Ive read) stock 8Ohm tap
Fantastic comparison! However we miss one important information for the bright cap: what was the volume setting?
I'd like to hear the difference of the 1987x with a tube rectifier vs solid state.
I think my fave was the 68.Good video,maybe some mods I can do.
Thanks Chad!
Awesome!
+Yann E. Thanks!
Igår var jag o en polare på 4sound i Jönköping och testade lite stärkare. Jag nämnde vid ett tillfälle, Segeborns grymma youtubekanal, för han som jobbade i butiken. Han log lite och en annan snubbe vid namn Peter tittade fram. Ni förstår sammanhanget va??:)
Tommy Köllner Hehe, Härligt att höra!! :) Peter är helt enkelt outstanding på förstärkare, och en jäkligt trevlig prick därtill :)
Peter är grym.. Han har moddat min 1987x med plexiboost med push/pull via treblevredet, samt stock återställningsbar PPIMV på baksidan.. Låter helt magiskt! Borde dock se över min bright cap.. tror med idelt googlande att värden runt 120pf skulle göra susen!
Erik Linder Va kul, mer pleximods åt folket. ja Peter är kung! PPIMV är väldigt användbart, har en i min med, men i klippet kördes den på fullt dock. tror också man klarat sig med ett lägre bright cap-värde, en smaksak. du får gärna återkomma med vad du tyckte, om du bestämmer dig för att byta värde :)
ha det gött.
As a kid in the 80's I had and went through a dozen 1987 heads and tube combinations but could never get it right. I had to switch to 1959's to get the sound I was after; seems like these mods would have worked well.
Coolt som fan, men man blir ju helt matt av att lyssna och försöka förstå skillnaderna. Om ni måste välja en sättning, vilken skulle ni ta då? Har en 1987-klon som jag testat lite olika varianter av, nu är den typ som en 1987X tror jag. Låter skitbra, men kanske lite för likt min 2203. Man kanske skulle ta av bright-kondingen..
Tjenare Johan, känner igen namnet från Bojen. Din_mentor här ;)
Ja kan tänka mig att det kan va jobbigt att särskilja ljuden, testat med hörlurar?
Tycker definitivt du ska labba med brightcapen, antingen testa plocka bort den eller kanske välja ett lägre värde, ja så klart beroende på vad det sitter där idag då.
hmm alla inställningar/moddar fyller sin egna lilla funktion men de moddar jag diggar mest är nog möjligheten till shared cathode och även 0,68 på V2.
Peter som moddade min förstärkare heter woodstock på bojen.
Great demo, thanks. Unfortunately, the situations, where one can really crank up his amp that it unleashes this wonderful Marshall growl are much too seldom in real life - may it be in a band situation or even at home. So what stays left in 99% is, that you will use a pedal friendly amp and a good overdrive pedal. That' why I ended up with a Princeton Reverb with a 12" 100dB/A AlNiCo and a Box of Rock.
I seem to like it in the stock configuration.
+asianviewer1 thanks
the .68 bypass cap is the missing element to the sound in my head
+vaughn6672 :-) Glad the video is put to some good use!
Funny I like the stock 1987X best.
+Bob Boitt On the reference amp the bright cap was actually disengaged. The stock bright cap is only good for really high gain stuff, for anything else it's way to bright
No way. The bright cap is a big improvement over the stock. But you can only appreciate this when you play live with a band.
Johan: I do like it with the cap disengaged.
Leopold: I could see what you mean in a band many players like bright amps to cut through.
to me, it hurts my ears and sounds brittle.
Johan Segeborn Agreed. This is the only mod I've done to my 1959 RI. Clip a leg of one cap and it's a totally different much more usable beast.
Negative feedback on a one k pot and 37k resistor you can dile in what you like. Did that mod to a jvm , worked well.
don't you mean a 100k pot?
This sounds super awesome.. i know Folkesson has some similar mods but i dont know if they are as good as those ?
+HearGear Thanks! Can't go wrong with either of those guys.
Ty for the videos. I dont like the bright cap sound.
+John Lindholm Thanks John, yeah that certainly has a limited applicability. Cheers
great test.....do you use stereo reverb?
A Plexi encyclopedia!
+borz666 Thanks! :-)
A Plexipedia if you will :D
+Johan Segeborn What was the actual switching system for the different components? I'm interested in how the amp functions in terms of switching between the different components.
+bob joe Hi, the pots are replaced with push/pull pots, so for instance the split cathode is activate by pulling one of the pots
Very cool demo of a very cool amp! I would love to have a couple mods done to my amp but I'm too chicken.
Just use pedals
Diana Thompson My amp is a small Class A combo with no effects loop. I would love to have one so I can put reverb, delay, and EQ behind the pre-amp. The amp sounds fantastic as is, but an effects loop would make it EXACTLY what I want.
johann nice video...i just bought a gibson artisan all original but i found that the neck pickup is way louder than the bridge...what should i do?
+silver stone Thanks! Try to lower it in its cavity and raise the bridge pickup.
Just take out the bright cap on a 87x and you are good to go. Great amp.
Hey Johan, maybe this is a late comment and question, hope you will see them! Congrats again on providing real tangible examples on how these differences sound! My question is, I have experienced 3 super basses (one 1972 and 2 1973), and all of them sounded fizzier than say, a super lead. From what I hearing in the example when in shared cathode mode, I'm hearing the same fizziness. Would you say shared cathode contributes to a fizzy sound, and going split cathode would alleviate that? THx.
+guitartonequest Hi! Fizziness may be more pronounced on a darker amp since the high end on a super lead is so much more prominent that it obscures it
guitartonequest shared cathode is a bit looser in sound, maybe that contributes also to this fizziness you have experienced.
May try the .68 on v2 on my Metro JTM45. Would it be a bad ideal to make that foot switchable using a converted unused speaker port?
+NYC LP Player Sounds interesting, would work as a cool boost pedal!
NYC LP Player sounds like a cool idea! since it boosts both mid and gain it should be great as a boost, but of course only has 2 fixed modes: on/off = unable to set an exact boost volume, unless you make a more advanced mod of course, but try it - Mattias
Jason does the jtm 45 have a bright cap?That might be a good mod for that amp.
the 500pF bright cap does the main job.
Malmsteen was here in Melbourne 2015 and had 21 Marshall heads, he struggled for 25 minutes with feedback and squealing problems, then ended up just using 2 heads for the show and you couldn't tell the difference
+PeterKaltsas whatever gets the job done ;-)
Hey Johan
Got any tone / eq tips for a marshall jcm800 2204x reissue head?
I use a les paul traditional with classic 57 pickups and am finding some great tones working the guitar volume and tone knobs and boosting occasionally with an OCD Pedal (I don't use any distortion from the pedal -just the volume to hit the front of the amp a little harder)
Given how many Marshall heads you have played - are there any standard bits of advice you would give for setting up a good classic rock tone?
For example:
1) I see on some of the heads you turn the bass completely off - would you do this on the JCM800
2) You have also suggested a touch of bass via an eq pedal in the loop in some videos - would you do this on the JCM800?
3) Do you turn the Prescence off COMPLETELY?
4) treble settings (i, guessing very low as it is a very bright amp)
I appreciate that the room, playing style etc all come into the equation but i am very sure that after all of these demos you must have a standard set up you know works best with each head type
As always your most knowledgeable input would be appreciated
+Conrad Kriel Hi Conrad!
1) At high volumes I'd use as little bass as possible, provided that the sound is balanced on all strings. 2) I think the boosts of the outboard clip applies here too. 3,4) I always use as much treble and prescence as possible to use as much amp gain as possible, provided the tone don't get harsh, then I'd primarily compensate using the guitar pots
Cheers
Johan
Hi Johan
Your response is much appreciated.
I have stayed away from high treble and presence as i have found it harsh however i do work my volume and tone knobs, so ill give this a try this afternoon.
I have finally got around to recording so as soon as i have some decent clips up ill send you links.
Thanks again for the response
+Conrad Kriel thanks looking forward to that. Cheers
wow that is great, you are setting the standards here!
I am the relatively happy owner of a 2245THW, what can Peter do for me ?
Or I ask Aleksander Niemand as his Zagray! is making me feel like I have many of them plus more... Johan you need a Zagray! test vs the others to see how flexible it is. I am actually selling my 1960HW cabinet and keep my cream-back stack as you can tweak so much in a way that is so musically relevant on this marvel !
+e. tienne Thanks! I don't know if Peter offers this job but we can ask him if you want? And the Zagray! that's a big favourite of mine! There will indeed be more clips of that one later on. Cheers Johan
Sounded best stock without the bright cap, frankly
Johan. Tell your friend to try in stead of a 47K resistor and stock 100k tell him to try the stock 100k against a 220k or even a 270K in the NFB loop. That's what we've been running in all our Marshall's and Laney's it opens the amp up and every note feels like its alive right in you hand. just a thought didn't know if you guys had tried that yet its an incredible difference.
+Tim Stanley I never tried values that high. Seems like it would almost eliminate the negative feedback. Which output transformer tap are you connecting it to?
8 ohm tap. we used a 250K pot and a 220k or 270K resistor in the line and it brings the amp alive. Try it sometime its unbelievable if you like huge note definition.
It also makes the presence knob way more active and usable.
Cool!
+Glauco Santiago Thanks man!
Johan do the tsl have cascading gain or are any of the superleads the same set up. of the modern setups. post 1980.
+JED TAYLOR The Super Lead model 1959 had the same basic circuit until it was discontinued in 1990. And then the reissues have retained that basic circuit, which is not cascaded. I actually don't know how DSL and TSL have sourced the extra gain.
Johan that s very good, You ve as much possible, have expressed what you know about these amps. I m much appreciative that you do not add less than real time information. It is one of the great attributes you own in your service of content here on you tube. Enjoy yourself as well this burley weather week we ve experienced 4 tornadoes this week end and its been exciting and saddening as well. Again Johan , I thank you for your efforts.
Johan, do you understand the effect differences of a series gain stages verses stacked gain stages. I belive you do and this is my version albeit may not be exactly correct. In a short ......A series of gain stages can be one for each channel and a stack gain stage alignment can be one or both channels with both gain stages pushing together After I saw a video on running gain pedals in front of another it became the thought that this was stacked and series was one for each channel on the amp but not stacked. All in all I had made direct effort to play the different type of amps with the different alignment of gain stages.....to my amusement. They are offered on a few different amps and I ve not had the opportunity to get two amps made both ways.....But, I do have an idea the the pushing one to another creates more gain I wont say doubling because I ve not seen an amp where any two gain stages can be pushed without having some kind of noise gate.
Johan, as well as the amps do, I was thinking that they all do very well in how the tone evolves with the volume knob and the way they sound all have dynamic range to play in.....I will get a chance and learn the differences. Thanks as always for bringing the ability to open eyes and ears to the masses.
The stock Marshall 1987x is good enough.
as far as I know, 500pF is not a common value. the 5nF cap was directly introduced during 67...from none/100pF value found on previous JTM series. But the right value is the one you like lol!
+NUFAV At Marstran a bunch of amps are documented and 500pF is actually a common value.
www.marstran.com/Historic%20Data%20Base.htm
NUFAV what he said ;) - Mattias
Did anyone try to bypass the Cathode Follower on a Marshall? And with what results?
It seems not to be necessary, and it should give a ´colder´ sound.
I am aware that it will reverse the phase, but I am not sure it matters, and if it does you could change the wires on the output.
+Kim Hansen Hi Kim! The Marshall Major doesn't have a cathode follower
You are right, but that amp is a strange animal.
It has shared cathode components in the first stage, the tonestack is inside the FB loop, and it has a different phase inverter than other
Marshalls, so who knows how much the missing cathode follower influences the sound :-)
But thank you for your answer, and your fantastic videos.
looks like bass tone stack + 0.1 capacitors would make a bigger difference in lower frequencies and give different sound. For most cases I'll prefer refernce sound.
+Andrey Grygoryev yeah the prominence of these mods depends very much on the settings
Any contact details/website/facebook page for Peter Sanglert?
uhh what am I possA do?
Hi, i have a Marshall JCM 800 MK II 100 watts head, I want to ask you if that amp have a bright cap or not?.
I want to ask If that bright cap can make better de tone of my mk II or don't need it?
Can you help me with this please?
Anyway, thanks for this amazing video, helps a lot of people to know the exactly diferrences of all those mods, thanks
Hi,.
Yes it has a bright cap, if it's stock that is.
if it'is better with or without it is subjective to what you like.
did you like the sound of the 1987 with or without the bright cap the best? That could be your primary guide.
either way, if you bring it to a amp tech he can disconnect it very easily, and you can try it both ways.
Thanks.
//Mattias
Thanks for the answer.
Have a good day, I hope we can chat more about marshall amps. Thanks
was the bass tone stack with out the bright cap as well ?
Luke Porter Yup, sure was. all individual mods are without the bright cap. (except the one with the bright cap setting) - Mattias
thanks iv had the bright cap in and out of my jmp2204, does the Super Bass tone stack work with the 2204 ?
+Luke Porter Havent tried that, it would make it a bit less raw probably
Hi Johan, just letting you know I tried the bass tone stack with the 2104, sounds great but the low end is a little sagy. I can see why they used this tone stack for the super bass, adds a lot of bass. I will change it back to stock though. Luke
There are many things you can mod with that kind of an amp, because of its point-to-point wiring. It's just Valhalla for "experiment guys" like me! According to me, the 500pF bright cap in a Marshall it's a far too high value. I also removed mine from my Mesa Boogie .50 Caliber+ from 1988, which I've been modifying for years now! The Long Tail Pair resistors and the coupling capacitors, as well as the Negative Feedback are the main components you can tweak according to your taste.
Oh my god did you say "C"heck out?! Where's our beloved swedish guitar nerd! :)
Did I pronounce it right by accident? :-)
yes you did! haha