This is what the Marshall Plexi 1987 LEAD and 1986 BASS versions EXCEL at!
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- In this video I compare two amazing 1970 Marshall JMP 50W amps - one is the Lead version (model no. 1987) and one is the Bass version (model no. 1986). This is a great opportunity to make this comparison since these amps where built within days from each other. I'm Comparing all EQ and Gain settings, you can navigate to what you're interested in using the time tags below. I'm using a 2010 Gibson Les Paul Custom Black Beauty and I play both amps through a 1971 Marshall 4x12 model no. 1960A (G12M25 75Hz Celestion Pulsonic Greenbacks).
00:00 Introduction
02:01 Section 1 - Gain comparison Bright Channels (playing from 02:13)
04:26 Section 2 - Gain comparison Normal channels (playing 04:34)
06:35 Section 3 - EQ comparison summary rhythm riff (playing 07:10)
08:35 Section 4 - EQ comparison summary solo (playing 09:01)
09:57 Section 5 - EQ comparison summary cleans (playing 10:21)
11:03 Section 6 - Comparing all 4 inputs (playing 11:19)
12:59 Section 7 - EQ comparison solo (playing 13:12)
15:31 Section 8 - EQ comparison rhythm (playing 15:31)
18:41 Section 9 - EQ comparison cleans (playing 18:41)
21:06 Section 10 - Circuit differences and how they influence tone
24:20 Section 11 - Comments
Check out the evolution of the circuit from 59 Bassman via JTM45 via JMP 50 etc here:
The 10 most Classic Marshall Amp Schematics are THIS SIMILAR!
• The 10 most Classic Ma...
Johan you are getting better and better at this. Looking forward to the next 30 years’ worth of videos from you.
I like the seismic activity in the knob cam.
Hahaha! ;-) thanks my friend!
A whole lotta love in this presentation!
As the happy and proud new owner of this particular bass amp I say a special thank you for this demo😀
The bass model was a beast. I loved the 1986. I have spent a lot of time building bass, lead JTM45 models and transitions with SS vs tube rectifiers, etc. One thing to note are power transformer voltages, etc. Everything makes a difference...some more than others. Once you start messing with cathode bypass caps, and coupling caps, filtering transformer voltages, you will find one model will be a Goldilocks version, (this one is JUST RIIGHT). Great vid.
Thanks, yeah theses had the same OT, PT and choke.
I love how the camera is holding on for dear life hahaha Great stuff man
Thanks Simon! 😉
The camera vibrating is how you know it's loud.
Awesome! I have a 1986 bass version from '68 (similar circuit I believe) and always wondered what a good comparison with a 1987 lead would sound like. Thanks for making all of the great Marshall videos!
Thanks Travis, great to hear that!
Diggin’ these chords with these amps! Really lovely🫡 👌🏼
Awesome comparison, stay safe my friend. People need more music in this world and less aggression.....peace
Stay safe from communists? Yes, stay safe from the enslavers that want us dead and otherwise further enslaved. Stay free!
I bought my 72’ super bass (100 wt) over thirty years ago. Love it ✨
I been waiting for a video like this forever, Thank you so much Johan!!
Thanks Wesley, great to hear that!
"...really interesting comparison...". I could not agree more. I love these in-depth videos, thanks a lot Johan!
I need to see this video multiple times.
Thanks Bengt, it’s great to hear that! Have a nice weekend!
Awesome comparison of tones ! Both amps have unique sounds.
Great video, Johan !!!
Thanks Cliff!
Hey Johan, incredibile video. I learned so much about my Marshalls today ;). keep up the excellent work!!!! Super cool!
Thanks Raphael, great to hear that!
Loving those new long format videos Johan!
Thanks! Its really good to hear that!
Really cool!! Thanks for the video as always
Thanks!
Thanks for the schematic comparisons as well as the rest of the video :)
Thanks Joe!
I like both amps. They both have great sweetspots.
Thanks Jens!
Johan : I love you.
Cheers my friend! :-)
Love the detail here johan. You've really got under the skin of these amps. Oh yes and rocked the hell out of them as it should be done.
Thanks Darren! :-)
Throughout the video I kept liking different amps depending on how you set them .At the end the lead for me by a short half head pipped at the post !
Great videos, enjoy watching them
Thanks David! I’m glad to hear that
Thanks for making this video Johan. I recently built a custom 69 Plexi Lead 50 watt and I can certainly hear the same vibe as the 1987 in my amp. I’m totally in love with my Plexi! It’s such an amazing tone and that crunch tone from a Plexi is unparalleled I think! Have an amazing day.
Thanks Jay! You have a great day too!
Interesting comparison, and perfect work as usual. Great the comparison of the circuits. Strange, that ODs have been used in the Lead version. I very much hear my TAD JTM in the Bass version
Thank you so much! I have both of these but from '69. My 1987 is plexi planeled with the black paddle switches. The 1986 is metal paneled with chrome switches same as my 1987 from '71. I'm sure those Daly caps are OK in your 1986. Mine has those too but are being replaced today. Love your channel // Matt.
Thanks Matt! Glad to hear that. It’s almost always a good idea to change the filter caps on this old amps
Awesome comparison Johan. 👍🏼
Thanks Will!
Basically a super bass can still cook when cranked but if you want a good clean and fuller edge of breakup it will deliver a little better than a lead circuit. The lead circuit will shine for tighter downpicking and that extra 5% fire.
Great Demo!
..........the feeling I got was like listening to a full range of voicing. 😁😁😁😁😁😁😀😎 this video should be a producer’s guide to Marshall’s...
Thanks, that’s great to hear!
Johan! You have a magic touch that makes any guitar/amp-combination scream in a wonderfully satisfying way!
Rock on, brother!
Thanks brother!
Enjoyed the demo of the wide palette of Marshalls Amp tones, and your thorough and pragmatic method. Both sounded huge. I preferred the brightness of the 1987, but that made me wonder how both Amps would sound when using a guitar with Single Coil pickups. I was hoping you'd have a sound sample or two with those. I bet the Bass version would have seemed like a different beast. Subscribed, Thanks
Thanks, I’m glad to hear that! I didn’t have time for the Strat in this session unfortunately but Strats always work wonderfully with bass Marshalls.
Hi, Johan!
This is the most interesting comparison. Somehow more I liked 1987. Subjectively. Have a nice weekend! See you!
Z.
Thanks my friend! You have a great weekend too! See you
I love that bass overdriven. Would be great for Doom/Stoner Rock
Thanks!
If I'm not mistaken, Iommis Supergroup is very similar to a super bass
@@jaseyraw8843 There ya go. The original doom machine
Thank you Fender!
:-)
Maybe I’m sick but I prefer the cranked bass sound.😎
All these tones make me feel the rock!!! I love it. Thanks! What PUPs are you using. Vintage or ?
It was very interesting to hear a Lead and a Bass side-by-side like that, and to see a little of what makes them tick. Thanks for posting this comparison. Well done.
I think any reasonably competent rock player could get great tone out of either amp. Any differences between them or weakness of one vs. the other could easily be compensated for with pedals and/or speaker cabinet selection.
Of course, the ideal would be a two-guitar band with one of each model...
As to which _I_ would prefer to own? I think the 1986 Bass. If it's a bit too deep in the low end and conflicts with the bass or kick drum or whatever, that can easily be dealt with by a little knob-twisting. But it seems to be naturally resistant to producing ice-picky, fizzy sounds. I think that might be more versatile while still sounding great.
I "liked" this video before I even watched it. Johan and a couple Plexis? It's a no brainer, I'm in!
Thanks my friend! :-)
That Les Paul Custom now has Zakk Wylde’s autograph on its pickguard. I met him last year in Stockholm and brought the pickguard with me
There was a reason players of the day had their Bass models modified to Super Lead specs. Surely it's subjective. But my vote is JMP Super Lead.
Any replica by Germino Suhr or other of a non master volume JMP SL and buy a load box...so you can crank without the cops beating down your door.
But why did Gary Moore modify the other way then ?
Cool stuff! \m/
Thanks DMS! 🤘
The lead is like a tweed fender and the bass is REALLY like a tweed fender.. Marshall wasn't a brand of it own until the mid 70s with cascading gain stages. People always fully admit "oh the JTM45" was just a bassman rehoused" do they think there were any large differences during the plexi era?? a quick trip to SoloDallas will clear that up mighty fast..
Was expecting Bass to sound sweeter in isolation and Lead to have that cut thru harsh tone.
But Lead sounded way fuller and richer. Bass sounded like missing the meaty guitar frequencies.
Great video.
Thanks!
Interesting video, I had both way back in the dim and distant past,.. couldn't get on with the super lead at all... in the room with it....found it ice picky bright. I was using a tube screamer and graphic eq for boost at the front though. In this recording I probably prefer the super lead overall.
Great stuff again - I may have to call you Professor Segeborn from now on! The Lead was best overall but the Bass can really GROWL!!!!
Cool
Awesome comparison once again Johan… I own a 1959HW super lead which I love, but I must admit I’ve always been intrigued to the super bass dry and deep tone. Also, that Les Paul you are using just sounds amazing… can you tell me which pickup you are using in the bridge? Cheers
Thanks Alfonso! That’s a Burstbucker 2. Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn Love those pickups! They way they respond to increases in volume and/or gain is really cool...Gibson did a great job with those!
Great video comparison, I like both amp , I prefer a little bit more the super lead
Thanks, glad to hear it!
I wish they had an amp group they named 'Rhythm' , as opposed to just 'Lead' and 'Bass'.
That joke aside, this is a great video - tells me a lot about the classic Marshall amps and their characteristics - thank you.
I tend to subscribe to the notion that the Bass amp tends to work really well for clean/slightly overdriven sounds, while the Lead definitely has that crunch that many love. I also found that the more pronounced Gain stage makes for more soloing choices on the Lead amp.
Be interesting how the 100 W versions compare?
Thanks! ;-) We’ll do the Super Lead/Bass too soon. I did a part of that one hear as well: ua-cam.com/video/dvzYTZXIKeg/v-deo.html
Johan..you are so good at these experiments..want to be guitar tech????..Come to Florida..Great job
Thanks Robbie, sounds great! :-)
Really missing the live drum loops!
Glad you like those!
Very scientific Brother-the truth about the great-warm distorted Marshall sounds-Guitar and Bass, flipsides of the same coin !
Thanks David!
I sub’d
Question, shouldn’t you be wearing hearing protection with those amps!?
Great video if you don’t know the differences!😎🎸
Thanks!
Great video as always. How does the normal channel from 1986 sound? It's manageable or it's too dark?
Did you watch the video??
nope, and have you iistened to it?@@qddk9545
The bass model was made exactly one decade to the day before Mount St. Helens erupted. I do not think that is a coincidence, strum carefully!
Hahaha! 🤣
yeaaaaaaaaaaaah !!!!!!!
Funny thing is that us freaks tend to think that the ´Mustard caps´ like in the Bass version are the holy grail of caps for a Marshall. The Orange drops are normally used for
quality Fender type builds, and is thought of as being brighter.
Hi can you do a demo with a 1965 Stratocaster on the marshall superbass?
Jimmy Page’s number 1 is a Super Bass. Interesting. The 100+ watts and headroom must be significantly different than the 1986.
I thought it was a 1969 Super Lead but I may be wrong
@@JohanSegeborn According to his Anthology book, it’s the super bass. He has great photos! Cheers! (Serial no: SB/A10053)
Thanks! Interesting
@@JohanSegeborn He used both lead and bass models but his number 1 is a superbass.
What do you think of the Ceriatone Plexi Clones? Thanks
I saw the dispute about capacitors in the file and I do agree : differents capacitors have different tonality. And when talking about Orange drop you have to point out the model. An OD715 is very different from a 225P or 6PS. Differents materials and building. 225P are polyester like the Mullard and could be not so far tonaly speaking.
They’re 223J orange drops. We’ll investigate it in a video
@@JohanSegeborn Hi Johan, 223J is not the model but the value ! 22 plus three zero means 22000 = 22nF. J means tolerance 10%.
@@schmolly75 🙂
To me, the Lead had better clean-ish sounds, and had more clarity where as the bass had better crunch sounds. But I bet both of them would sound Amazing together.
They both sound amazing but except for clean tones in section 5 I prefer the Lead because it has more grit and a thicker distortion
Thanks Francesco!
Johan could we please hear a demo of the 1986? I have always wanted you to demo one! Just to add to the vintage amps recordings library that you have unconsciously created lol
There very seldom quality demos of the 1986 model
Hi Andreas, the Bass in this video is a 1986
@@JohanSegeborn Oh no I meant like a separate video, likt the past vintage amps series where you set the amp to settings you liked and just jammed some riff
👍
1986 bass is certainly more musical to my ears. the1987 is shrill and lacks some mid complexity for my taste, in any setting. i have the 1964 lead and bass 50watt model from 1974 and the slp1959 reissue 100watt from 1993. they have exactly the same differences that the 1986 bass and 1987 lead have in this video. i prefer my 1964 over my 1959 and your 1986 over your 1987, 9 out of 10 times! but i absolutely agree with all your comments. try putting the pedal output of the original guvnor pedal to high input 1 and the loop output of the guvnor (with a mono cable) to high input 2 of the 1987 with your volume 1 on 7 and your volume 2 on 8 and your treble knob between 0 and 6. set presence and mid according to taste and keep your bass as low as your channel 1 requires for bright but full enough tone. the pedal off is the 1 bright channel and the pedal on is the distortion of the guvnor into channel 2. set guvnor with full level, treble and mid on 7, bass on 3 and gain on 7 or 8 at the most. tell me if you like the cleaner brighter and more dynamic channel 1 and the fatter heavier and more flat out distorted channel 2, at the flick of the guvnor pedal s switch! use a humbucker in the bridge position for higher gain and play with your guitar volume knob on the non distorted sound with the guvnor off. if you play with low output single coils keep your guitar volume and tone control a bit down if the sound is to shrill. with humbuckers you can use a boss ge-7 after the output of the guvnor and into channel 1 for a cleaner sound. set the ge-7 with less gain on than off. if you want higher and more cutting gain from your 1986 bass amp, just use any kind of treble booster in the high channel 1 input of your amp. this was a really great video!!!!!!!!!!!! johan, thanx a lot!!!!!!!!!!!! greetings from athens greece
Thanks Apostolos! I’m definitely gonna try that! Cheers from Sweden
How close can a 1987 get to a 1986 tone wise? I noticed the tones from low input vol 1 of the 1987 sounded VERY similar to the high input vol 1 of the 1986. It's just a very short example of each, but I jumped back and forth the best I could, seemed really close.
That bass amp roars .
Now we know why Hendrix
Plug his strat in to jack Bruce's bass amp.
When he blew Eric away
More balls with a single coil. Who give Jimi that advice. He was fresh from the states with no knowledge of Marshall amps at that point...
Maybe Jim himself? 🤘
Yeah good point.
I'm leaning towards the
Bass amp .
I play super strats think
It would cut through.
Used TSL in the past live.
Gain channel p 8 b 7 m7 t5
Ultra gain for leads.
Cut through a treat
Still sounded nice & thick.
Love your vids .
Thanks..
the UK...
@@JohanSegeborn
Hi Johan
Following on my Hendrix
Comment..just found out
When Jimi got here UK
the first band he jammed with before Cream was Brian Auger and the Trinity...they had a marshall stack. Jimi
Plugged in and turned every control to 10
Wailed feed back & steamed into Hey Joe.
Chas Chandler took him there.
Catch ya later.
Love your channel..
Not sure if the 1986 model(bass) has shared cathode in your test
Early lead and bass models and later 2100 combo amps with shared cathode sound particularly nice with strat and 6402 cones open back
I’m showing the circuits in section 10 in the video
Both are great, but the 1987 wins for me on all settings, I have a ‘69 metal panel that sounds very close to this one
Thanks!
Is this what, Duane Allman played? Wasn't it a 1987x or something?
Duane played a 68 JMP Bass model 1986
I have a Marshall Lead & Bass 50 watt combo Made in 1975 by Jeff the label on the inside says, I have been told the Lead part is 1987 & the bass is 1986 circuits, anyone have any knowledge of this this amp. it,s the same amp Paul Weller uses.
Cool amps indeed! I’m afraid I haven’t tried the 50 watter yet
is your lead and bass combo a model 2100 with shared cathode v1 first gain stage?
@@stevencancel1727 I am not sure what it has, I think from what I can find out it was a catalog only amp in the combo configuration.
Oh - and another suggestion. Your love for things "Americana" is obvious and makes someone like me feel good about being American. The fun stuff especially! Muscle cars, Coca-Cola, Gentleman Jack, Rock n' Roll, Gibson and Fender, Elvis, California dreaming, Summer babes. You should come over here more and spend time. Here's my suggestion though - you need to start incorporating the word "man" into your conversations and presentations! Like - Hey man. Check this out. We're gonna be playing this boss Marshall Plexi LEAD, man. And it's gonna be alright. :)
you cant be serious, one has an output transformer from a later period and coupling caps that sound a lot more modern, you simply cant compare these two amps as one is so extensively modded . the correct way to do this sort of comparison is to find two unmodded amps, and use the same glass, otherwise its an utter waste of time.
Well they both have PT - 1202-118, OT - 784-139. Are you referring to the different fonts on the OT? Feel free to provide reference.
@@JohanSegeborn the ot is from later period, jcm800 era. the fonts give it away. cmon johan, the coupling caps alone make the comparison silly.
I don’t think the brand of caps are that important actually, we can compare mustards, orange drops and affordable current no name caps to find out here on the channel. You’re right about the OT though, thanks for bringing it to my attention, it’s late JMP rather than 800 though?
@@JohanSegeborn Johan you're relentless, a true tone hound, I'm a devoted fan, however I have to point it out to you, mustard caps vs orange drops is a big deal, tonally, the orange ones are brighter with more bass, a lot more actually, these variances cause a perceived mid scoop effect. They pass a lot more bandwidth. The o/t is also a big deal, there is variation within batches of vintage o/t's due to less efficient winding methods that cause different winding patterns, this is the reason 10 plexis with sequential serial numbers will sound different. To have one made years later...
The OT is indeed a big deal. Let’s find out about the caps in a video. Maybe you’re right. Cheers
Marshall’s better when it copied by Russians and called Sovtek.
I use the bottom left input on my stock 71 1987. I turn the bright vol up to 6 just where the bright cap starts to lose it’s effect but if I plugged into the top left it would be a little too gainy for my base tone, but the bottom input is perfect.
Another bonus is that it’s 6db quieter so I don’t have to cut as many db’s on my Hotplate.