Serum Powder seems EXTREMELY unnecessary in this deck whereas something like Eternal Witness to get back one of our very few Dubious Challenges that get countered or that we wiff on would be worlds better, something to consider. Edit: Or maybe some other creatures to hit off of challenge or another way to cheat them in more efficiently than an easily dealt with creature like Through the Breach! Elesh Norn, Platinum Emperion, Griselbrand, something!
drahydra yes that is not the greatest but if we hit it off of Dubious Challenge then we will likely have many other creatures to choose from anyways, also worst case scenario, remember Dubious Challenge is a may effect. It was just an example of a much better card than Serum Powder.
As much as I enjoy your game play Seth, your ability to power through the Deck Tech in 30 seconds is probably the most impressive thing about this video.
I've been running a variant of this deck. While I still lose quite often, it's such a high to pull off the win that I have ordered a number of the cards to build a real life version of the deck to play at my LGS. Thank you, Seth and Nishiguchi Yoshinori! The gambler in me can't get enough of this! :^)
From Runed Halo's Judge Rulings on Gatherer "5/1/2008 You can still be attacked by creatures with the chosen name." You don't have to connect or deal damage with Champion of Rhonas. you just have to exert it. Would have gotten around not being able to cast it. OP was already at negative life totals.
Love the white line over the last opponent's name, as if it isn't displayed at the top of the screen and on every single 'Waiting for dandroid' message.
Louise Drake if you watch the video, you'll see that it was only allowing players to cast spells on opponents' turns rather than only allowing players to cast spells on their own turns.
@seth If I remember correctly the sole reason the powders were in the deck was to mulligan to get hands where you would have powder in them with things like excess lands so that you are exiling just stuff you don't need to win. Like even if you have the powder in hand if you have essential combo pieces you take a regular mulligan rather than a powder mulligan. This helps to improve the odds of having a nuts draw even if you are at hands of say size 4 or 5.
Pretty much just their to thin your deck at the start from being 60 cards to around 50 ish as if your able to remove 6 non essential cards having your deck at 54 your draw your hand of 6 leaving 48 cards left your odds have greatly increased verses a deck of 54 cards with a 6 card hand. As with all things held constant a smaller deck is always more consent at hitting a card if their is the same number of them in it.
The steel deck boxes are great. Just keep in mind if you're planning on getting one that they are heavy and difficult to store, but they're eye-catching and you'll never worry about your cards.
Yeah, I've got a couple. They are heavy (probably not ideal for carrying around 10 decks in your backpack) but they are great for your more expensive decks since they seem close to indestructible.
I like the new one video format and I like how it gets people to actually check out the article, but maybe slow down just a bit so I tell what you're saying in the deck tech lol, maybe 40 seconds instead of 30 seconds kinda deal
This deck might want some Wall of Omens and/or Thraben Inspector. It would help with consistency when you don't have the turn 3 or 4 win, and gives Flickerwisp another target.
Why does this deck not has Glimmerpoint Stag instead of Borrding Saurian? It can be used to give pseudo-vigilance to Champion of Rhonas if needed, and if used for the Dubious Challenge combo doesn't fold to removal like the Saurian does.
I like how this deck-builder essentially decided to cap their win-rate at 45%. Maybe it was from a challenge to win a tournament with a deck that's guaranteed to have no favorable matchups hahaha.
I saw the deck tech and thought, "this is great for against the odds." then I watched the videos and thought, "maybe not even good enough for against the odds?"
Idea #1: Replace all serum powder with 2 madcap experiments and two platinum emperion for alternative turn two options. Idea #2: Run a playset of Blitz Hellion for additional targets that go back in your deck at the end of your turn, no matter who controls them. At worst you go up a creature and don't swing for 7. Idea #3: Run Blossoming Defensive to protect the champion of rhonas in place of serum powder, and run a couple dragonlord In the place of one-ofs
Id switch out the crumble to dust in the side for beast within. Hits everything, and you can flicker the token. In this application, id take beast within.
Yes! A new Much Abrew to help pass the time at my overnight job! Shit yeah! Plus it involves Dubious Challenge! Man...I opened a Dubious Challenge in BOTH of my pre-release packs from Kaladesh, and then opened THREE MORE in the booster box I bought. Very sad, so I'd love to build this deck and actually use those damn things!
What about take out the simian or the powders for 4 copies of reason/believe? scry 3 before dubious diminish the chance to fail and the "believe" half could really be usable in this shell or even JTM
Since you replied, I'll elaborate. I can see this deck with -4 CoR, -4 Powder, -Dosan, -Eidolon. Replace them with 3 Emperion, 2 Madcap, 4 Simian Spirit Guide, and another mainboard Iona or Void Winnower. Land would only need to change slightly. Maybe a red draw spell to toss your Emrakuls back into the deck?
Silly question. Do you make the intro part of the video in PowerPoint? I was hearing a faint click on some of the slide transitions had flash backs to watching a work presentation.
Ladies and gentlemen, I have the answer to this Dubious Challenge puzzle. One card to make sure we hit near 100%. The card is CONGREGATION AT DAWN. Instant for WGG, search up 3 creatures, shuffle, then put those 3 on top in any order. Spirit Guide, Enabler, Finisher. Turn 3 finisher with the nut draw.
How about reworking the mana base to have more plains, and replace some cards to run Endless Horizon? That should help to get Dubious Challenge to hit anything relevant.
Hi Goldfish, just started my journey into MTG Online. I really like your channel and Twitch live streams. Want to know how to buy a deck from your Online Website MTG Goldfish. I am really interested in the 8 whack Goblin deck, want to purchase the online (Tix). Can you please make a tutorial video how to purchase any deck from your website and what to do if the purchase is completed (If you pay with pay-pal or "Tix"). Would the deck be transferred to your MTG Online account or is there a special code in order to unlock the deck in your own account ? I prefer to pay with pay-pal, reason just created my MTG Online account and do not have any Tix to purchase the deck. A tutorial video would be very helpful. Keep up the good work. Greetings from South-Africa.
I did one just a few weeks ago! www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/getting-started-on-magic-online-for-20-2018-edition You can skip over the first part, which is about getting a Magic Online account, but after that it shows how to buy a deck with tix.
Speaking of which, there's an "anything goes" tournament, including bugged cards, in the Getting Serious room on MODO this month that I've been invited to watch :D
Magic Online is such a piece of shit software. Yeesh. If a certain open source software made by a handful of people in their free time can do a better job, why can't a multi-billion dollar company? Pathetic.
Out of curiosity what is the exact calculation? My current assumption is you do odds of hitting an enabler given you hit a finisher * the odds of hitting a finisher given that you hit an enabler (pop size = deck size -1, and sample size = 9 for both). Is this the correct way of doing it?
Population size is the number of cards in the deck, then the population size would be the number of cards we're seeing with Dubious Challenge (which is 10, and then 9 for the second).
Thanks for quick reply That was my first thought, but things get weird when you have a different number of enablers and finishers remaining, as order changes the answer by a couple of percentage points.
The pay off is the question. Even playing monogreen charbelcher would be cool as chancellor can be cast with the lands that you bring out. I saw you did an instant deck tech a long time ago and it was pretty awesome. It may be set up well in this meta as its just a fast deck.
So I might be thinking about this the wrong way, but in match 1 since your opponent had hexproof due to leyline, wouldn't dubious challenge allow you to put both exiled creatures into play under your control since you can't target the opponent, or would the spell fizzle/cannot be cast due to not having a valid player target?
Great video. Can you please encourage historic standard? It's a format that allows cards of any age as long as the whole deck was in standard together eg Esper Control (from RTR Standard) and Bant Company. It's great on a budget and gives Standard playables a home after rotation.
Hunted Troll and Hunted Lammasu seem like castable mediocre Dubious challenge hits. Emancipation Angel, Dust Elemental and Saltskitter are weird but could work. I don't know. Maybe Dubious challenge should have been less Dubious.
I think the idea is that champion can be hit off of dubious challenge to cheat a payoff into play. This changes the math to make your odds of winning better if you draw one of your payoffs. However, you have to wait a turn. Pretty risky.
Serum Powder seems EXTREMELY unnecessary in this deck whereas something like Eternal Witness to get back one of our very few Dubious Challenges that get countered or that we wiff on would be worlds better, something to consider.
Edit: Or maybe some other creatures to hit off of challenge or another way to cheat them in more efficiently than an easily dealt with creature like Through the Breach! Elesh Norn, Platinum Emperion, Griselbrand, something!
The Serum Powder is more to exile really bad hands, so you have a higher chance of hitting off of dubious challenge.
planetsabc not when you are exiling more and more of your "hits", like Emrakul or Dubious Challenges
Eternal Witness would actually be pretty bad in this deck, because you really don't want to be giving those to your opponent.
drahydra yes that is not the greatest but if we hit it off of Dubious Challenge then we will likely have many other creatures to choose from anyways, also worst case scenario, remember Dubious Challenge is a may effect. It was just an example of a much better card than Serum Powder.
"Maybe 5 finishers is not enough".
-Seth '2018'
AeroEdits aye lmao🤣🅱️
Should have a couple bloghtsteel colossus as finisher or progenitus..sorry if my spelling is off
@Solomon Dragon I like bloghtsteel colossus better anyway :D
"Huh? I can't cast flicker wisp?" "It's our turn,I'm very confused"
Comedic gold^
Although this deck floundered, the Dubious Challenge did more work than I expected. Thanks Olive!
"That is the money shot"
- Seth, 2018, on a supposedly family-friendly series.
the drumroll was hilarious, keep these up loving them!
As much as I enjoy your game play Seth, your ability to power through the Deck Tech in 30 seconds is probably the most impressive thing about this video.
I've been running a variant of this deck. While I still lose quite often, it's such a high to pull off the win that I have ordered a number of the cards to build a real life version of the deck to play at my LGS. Thank you, Seth and Nishiguchi Yoshinori! The gambler in me can't get enough of this! :^)
Could have exerted flickerwisp into play G1
nope because he cant atack because runed halo blocks the atack
From Runed Halo's Judge Rulings on Gatherer "5/1/2008 You can still be attacked by creatures with the chosen name." You don't have to connect or deal damage with Champion of Rhonas. you just have to exert it. Would have gotten around not being able to cast it. OP was already at negative life totals.
ah ok, i thought it cant atack. thank u
Love the white line over the last opponent's name, as if it isn't displayed at the top of the screen and on every single 'Waiting for dandroid' message.
Only Seth would see one untapped plains and go "oh god...not mana tithe please" hahaha
Wow I imagine that bugged Dosan effect would actually be a really interesting (probably blue) card.
I would love for this card to exist, but would hate playing against it.
KYLE ROBERT KOVACS what's the bug?
Louise Drake if you watch the video, you'll see that it was only allowing players to cast spells on opponents' turns rather than only allowing players to cast spells on their own turns.
I wish I had an instant to see if you could still play things on the opponent's turn.
Rule of Law + Knowledge Pool
Really enjoyed the in-depth ending commentary. Thx Seth!
“Our opponent can sit on counterspells”.... if only you had a boseiju
This is why we need Seth to test our jank so that we only use the highest quality jank we can.
@seth If I remember correctly the sole reason the powders were in the deck was to mulligan to get hands where you would have powder in them with things like excess lands so that you are exiling just stuff you don't need to win. Like even if you have the powder in hand if you have essential combo pieces you take a regular mulligan rather than a powder mulligan. This helps to improve the odds of having a nuts draw even if you are at hands of say size 4 or 5.
Pretty much just their to thin your deck at the start from being 60 cards to around 50 ish as if your able to remove 6 non essential cards having your deck at 54 your draw your hand of 6 leaving 48 cards left your odds have greatly increased verses a deck of 54 cards with a 6 card hand. As with all things held constant a smaller deck is always more consent at hitting a card if their is the same number of them in it.
Good call!
Dubious Challenge doesn't dig you deeper, Seth, it shuffles the deck after the selection.
Really enjoyed the game between your dubious challenge deck and the madcap experiment deck. Both crazy 4 cmc sorcery from the same set.
Also would have loved to see your opponent who had problems with dubious challenge punt on that dromoka and emrakul at the end.
The steel deck boxes are great. Just keep in mind if you're planning on getting one that they are heavy and difficult to store, but they're eye-catching and you'll never worry about your cards.
Yeah, I've got a couple. They are heavy (probably not ideal for carrying around 10 decks in your backpack) but they are great for your more expensive decks since they seem close to indestructible.
please suggest somebody run Dosan on commander clash, bugged mtgo theme night when?
I might play it next time I guest on an episode and just play it on turn three and call it a night ;)
You should try out Modern MODO Bugs.dek. Featuring Dosan, those cumulative upkeep creatures from Snowlemnity, any whatever else you can find.
Oh PLEASE do!
I really like the super abridged deck techs at the start of these. I find the normal ones too long and this was just enough for me to get everything.
Sweet! I plan on continuing with them.
I like the new one video format and I like how it gets people to actually check out the article, but maybe slow down just a bit so I tell what you're saying in the deck tech lol, maybe 40 seconds instead of 30 seconds kinda deal
Arbor Elf into Utopia Sprawl has been a pretty frequent play around here. Not sure what to think of that.
You know this bout to be a interesting one when Seth adds “the odds of hitting” on the very first dubious challenge
This deck might want some Wall of Omens and/or Thraben Inspector. It would help with consistency when you don't have the turn 3 or 4 win, and gives Flickerwisp another target.
New sponsors!
Why does this deck not has Glimmerpoint Stag instead of Borrding Saurian? It can be used to give pseudo-vigilance to Champion of Rhonas if needed, and if used for the Dubious Challenge combo doesn't fold to removal like the Saurian does.
Blasting station was a fun combo piece with beacon of creation back in the day.
I like how this deck-builder essentially decided to cap their win-rate at 45%. Maybe it was from a challenge to win a tournament with a deck that's guaranteed to have no favorable matchups hahaha.
I saw the deck tech and thought, "this is great for against the odds." then I watched the videos and thought, "maybe not even good enough for against the odds?"
Looks like we get two against the odds vids this week.
A new option for both finisher and enabler is Trostani. Maybe through her in there somewhere?
Idea #1: Replace all serum powder with 2 madcap experiments and two platinum emperion for alternative turn two options.
Idea #2: Run a playset of Blitz Hellion for additional targets that go back in your deck at the end of your turn, no matter who controls them. At worst you go up a creature and don't swing for 7.
Idea #3: Run Blossoming Defensive to protect the champion of rhonas in place of serum powder, and run a couple dragonlord In the place of one-ofs
Id switch out the crumble to dust in the side for beast within. Hits everything, and you can flicker the token. In this application, id take beast within.
Honestly, I have seen some hilarious Dubious Challenge decks actually perform well
Yes! A new Much Abrew to help pass the time at my overnight job! Shit yeah! Plus it involves Dubious Challenge! Man...I opened a Dubious Challenge in BOTH of my pre-release packs from Kaladesh, and then opened THREE MORE in the booster box I bought. Very sad, so I'd love to build this deck and actually use those damn things!
What about take out the simian or the powders for 4 copies of reason/believe? scry 3 before dubious diminish the chance to fail and the "believe" half could really be usable in this shell or even JTM
Great video and great channel!
Love the content; keep it up!!
Thanks!
I wonder if you would work Humble Defector in here. Pretty sweet with Brooding Saurian (pronounced SOAR-ee-an, nor SIR-ee-an)
I look at this deck, and I see the potential to stuff in Madcap-Empyrion as your backup plan.
Ohh, spicy.
Since you replied, I'll elaborate. I can see this deck with -4 CoR, -4 Powder, -Dosan, -Eidolon. Replace them with 3 Emperion, 2 Madcap, 4 Simian Spirit Guide, and another mainboard Iona or Void Winnower. Land would only need to change slightly. Maybe a red draw spell to toss your Emrakuls back into the deck?
Wait guys what about Jace?? The brainstorm effect could swing this solidly in your favor.
Jace could be pretty good.
From watching this channel I learned how to choose the correct creature playing against dubious challenge, I don't think I'm proud that I know this.
If you ever play against me I'll be in trouble :)
Silly question. Do you make the intro part of the video in PowerPoint? I was hearing a faint click on some of the slide transitions had flash backs to watching a work presentation.
Sort of, it's a Goldfish tool, but it is power-point ish.
What about Bring to Light? You can make four colors.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to find new ways to cheat Emrakul into play early.
Glimmerpoint Stag
That should be one of the hits you want since it acts as an extra Flikerwhisp
Yeah, I think Glimmerpoint is next in line after Flickerwisp as far as enablers.
who knew seth could make the intro rhyme perfectly no matter who is the sponsor
If this Magic thing doesn't work out I might become a rapper.
Ladies and gentlemen, I have the answer to this Dubious Challenge puzzle. One card to make sure we hit near 100%. The card is CONGREGATION AT DAWN. Instant for WGG, search up 3 creatures, shuffle, then put those 3 on top in any order. Spirit Guide, Enabler, Finisher. Turn 3 finisher with the nut draw.
And for the record, I emailed Seth this about a week ago after the video came out.
No no no no no! At 8:21 You can still exert to get the wisp into play. You can still win!
Maybe you need a Below 7 mana card that works on multiple fronts, since the amount of finishers and enablers still seem to be odd.
48:31 "deck is inconsistent"- Seth
Would you say it's a dubious challenge?
It's the most accurately named card in Magic, I think.
24:58 "OH NO SO CLOSE TO THE NUTS"
- SaffronOlive, 2018
Love the art for the thumbnail
I guess it's time to build 61-card Dosan.
How about reworking the mana base to have more plains, and replace some cards to run Endless Horizon? That should help to get Dubious Challenge to hit anything relevant.
That's a spicy idea!
do people sometimes ask Saffron not to show their names?
I like the editing at 10:15
Can someone explain to me why is that deck running Primeval Titan? What land are they trying to win with? Grave Titan would be a better card.
wait seth probably better known as saffron olive, what happened to the ommulette from the quicksilver amulet deck tech...
Since this deck's deck tech video, I'm wondering if you can somehow make Dubious Challenge + Endless Whispers + Bronze Bombshell work
Sounds sweet!
I always forget how bad Serum Powder is and then I saw this.
No deck should be running that.
i agree
tell that to vintage dredge players
On 24:00 couldn't the opponent just block Rhonas with warden, block brooding with elvish visionary and sac the visionary to ping Rhonas?
Hi Goldfish, just started my journey into MTG Online. I really like your channel and Twitch live streams. Want to know how to buy a deck from your Online Website MTG Goldfish. I am really interested in the 8 whack Goblin deck, want to purchase the online (Tix). Can you please make a tutorial video how to purchase any deck from your website and what to do if the purchase is completed (If you pay with pay-pal or "Tix"). Would the deck be transferred to your MTG Online account or is there a special code in order to unlock the deck in your own account ? I prefer to pay with pay-pal, reason just created my MTG Online account and do not have any Tix to purchase the deck. A tutorial video would be very helpful. Keep up the good work. Greetings from South-Africa.
I did one just a few weeks ago! www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/getting-started-on-magic-online-for-20-2018-edition
You can skip over the first part, which is about getting a Magic Online account, but after that it shows how to buy a deck with tix.
Thanks my friend
16:34 "That is the moneyshot" lol
Wasn’t griselbrand another finisher in the original deck? That can fix your consistency issues
Griselbrand is another good option, yeah.
This feels like an against the odds deck, that seth hasn't built
I could be wrong, but would Grand Abolisher be better than Dromoka if you had to replace Dosan?
Grand Abolisher is just really hard for our deck to cast :(
Ah, that's a good point!
Anyone else having sound issues? It seems like the mic is constantly cutting in and out
Another deck that the leyline rekts!
I hope that this enchant will be un the next modern master
you only have a 14 card sideboard, summoning trap needed for control matchups
Bugged Dosan 😂
Speaking of which, there's an "anything goes" tournament, including bugged cards, in the Getting Serious room on MODO this month that I've been invited to watch :D
Magic Online is such a piece of shit software. Yeesh. If a certain open source software made by a handful of people in their free time can do a better job, why can't a multi-billion dollar company? Pathetic.
Why not have a Phage the untouchable in the deck? Dubious Challenge Phage is an instant win \o
Haven't watched the whole video, but won't the opponent choose the color for Iona so it will be worthless?
What about playing 1 or 2 Nahiri?
Out of curiosity what is the exact calculation? My current assumption is you do odds of hitting an enabler given you hit a finisher * the odds of hitting a finisher given that you hit an enabler
(pop size = deck size -1, and sample size = 9 for both). Is this the correct way of doing it?
Population size is the number of cards in the deck, then the population size would be the number of cards we're seeing with Dubious Challenge (which is 10, and then 9 for the second).
Thanks for quick reply
That was my first thought, but things get weird when you have a different number of enablers and finishers remaining, as order changes the answer by a couple of percentage points.
16:36 I don't know if money shot is the best term to use in that scenario haha.
Seth, can you make a deck that uses chancellor of the tangle??
That is not mono green charbelcher
Sounds like a challenge. Any ideas?
The pay off is the question. Even playing monogreen charbelcher would be cool as chancellor can be cast with the lands that you bring out. I saw you did an instant deck tech a long time ago and it was pretty awesome. It may be set up well in this meta as its just a fast deck.
So I might be thinking about this the wrong way, but in match 1 since your opponent had hexproof due to leyline, wouldn't dubious challenge allow you to put both exiled creatures into play under your control since you can't target the opponent, or would the spell fizzle/cannot be cast due to not having a valid player target?
Chris Keyser it can’t be cast as there are no legal targets. It needs you to target an opponent.
I thought that too for a second, but actually you can't even cast the Dubious Challenge if you can't choose an opponent as a target.
Why assemble the Knowledge Pool lock when you can just cast Dosan and do the same thing?
True :)
1st game, 2nd match. (around 9m40s) Why not play Heath instead of forest. get more deck thinning before you play dubious challenge?
Great video. Can you please encourage historic standard? It's a format that allows cards of any age as long as the whole deck was in standard together eg Esper Control (from RTR Standard) and Bant Company. It's great on a budget and gives Standard playables a home after rotation.
I'll have to look into it!
Awesome. It's great to see you interact with your community!
Uhhh, in the humans game you blocked out the username under the player icon, but not in the dialogue boxes.
#1 thing i would do is probly turn those serum powders into faithless looting
@57:02 you forgot to block out the name in the top-left corner. Edit: and a couple times in the bottom-right.
MTGO displays player names about everywhere. It's almost impossible to censor it with some kind of minimal static overlay.
I tried :(
What video editing software do you use?
Lightworks.
Did Seth just say “money shot”?!?
Hunted Troll and Hunted Lammasu seem like castable mediocre Dubious challenge hits. Emancipation Angel, Dust Elemental and Saltskitter are weird but could work.
I don't know. Maybe Dubious challenge should have been less Dubious.
Did seth hide the last opponents name? Because you can still see it at the very top left so im confused why there was a white box on his name
I felt bad because they couldn't figure out dubious challenge.
But you left the name uncensored in the very top bar
yeah thats what i was confused at tbh
you tried to censor the name of an opponent but it was still visible in two different places :p
I said dosan was bugged in the deck tech!
I was so confused when the sponsor of the show wasn't CardKingdom...
i know this is a brew, but through the breach seems so much better than the exert guy and you already have red mana
I agree.
I think the idea is that champion can be hit off of dubious challenge to cheat a payoff into play. This changes the math to make your odds of winning better if you draw one of your payoffs. However, you have to wait a turn. Pretty risky.
I had the same bug in the ravnica guantlet, got a refund
"This bird, devastating" Should have run Lightning bolt, so you could blot the bird (I guess path to exile would work too)
Yeah, having no removal at all is rough.
Quicksilver > Champion > Piper
piper is kinda bad... just saying
Brooding... Surians?
Yea i had the same problem fro the past 2 weeks with dosan
I wanna see a madcap deck
Grand Abolisher instead of Dosan?
I considered Grand Abolisher, but it seems hard to cast thanks to the double white.
Games start at 2:49.