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So many channels have done this with the wrong cars. I put K&Ns on my 5th gen 4Runner and it makes a world of difference. Stop using sports cars. Use them on SUVs and Trucks. Especially with the 4Runner, replacing the filter makes the whole thing a cold air intake. You don't need the trd pro cold air intake, the OEM one is already one, just missing the K&N filter.
@@DonutsReview the problem with putting them on trucks or SUVs is that they are meant to be operated off road, on construction sites, or farms, where they will be subjected to far higher amounts of airborne dust and dirt that could be sucked into the engine. Seems like a pretty poor use case for a filter that’s meant to increase air intake by doing a less effective job of filtering the air. After all, there’s only so much room for the filter under the hood, which is usually already filled with the paper filter. So you can’t make the surface area of the filter much bigger, and if your not forcing induction, then the only way to get a naturally aspirated engine to suck more air through the same size filter is to make the holes in the filter bigger and therefore less restrictive. I agree they can produce a little more horsepower (and improve the exhaust note), but unless we’re talking about a truck that’s used solely for towing on pavement, or a pavement poseur SUV that only gets near dirt when driving by road construction on the way to the mall, then it’s a pretty dubious application for these filters, in my humble opinion. (Oh, and I say this as someone with an AIRAID CAI on his pavement poseur SUV. And yes, it did add some horsepower and combined with the 3” cat-back exhaust system, sounds sweet as hell! 😁 if I have to head for the dirt, the factory box goes back in.)
@@RickinICT what's the stats like 90% of off road vehicles purchased never goes off road. I understand that you'd need normal filters off road, but it's worth talking about the experience with K&N on road. It changes the driving dynamic so much. Also lost 2 mpg on local drives but gained 2 mpg on longer drives.
Same with exhausts in naturally aspirated engines. Engine in Clio 3 RS with stock exhaust usually overdelivers in terms of power, but the exhaust note is a bit quiet. Touch the exhaust and you lose 15-20 HP instantly.
This is very true, especially for the Eventuri. It is expensive for what it is, although I really do like the noise from mine, and the low end improvement in driveability.
On the exhaust front the benefit really comes from removing restrictions e.g. cats, ppf etc. Weight is the other benefit from exhaust changes but again its quite marginal.
@@Freshiemaster it's not just restrictions in a naturally aspirated engine, there's something called exhaust scavenging that happens around certain RPM, by going catless you might bring down the scavenging effect to lower RPMs, and sure, you will boost the mid-range, but you'll lose the top end and obviously power. That's why some cars (like mentioned Clio) don't like better flowing exhausts, the factory one provides plenty of flow while optimizing exhaust scavenging for max power.
@@arekb5951 the only advantage you can get with exhausts is completely removing catalitic converters AND totally reworking the header to scavenge properly with the reduced backpressure
@@danielcasillas1133 I think still no... Maybe few extra hp, but with the money they cost, you better put them in something more efficient... So, still No!
@@danielcasillas1133 intake tuned and catback exhuast will net you no more 10% percent of power from a stock naturally aspirated engine anything more your talking about full exhuast engine internals cams and proper race intake box and torttle body and proper ecu work not just a tuned like motec or fcon.
I’ve installed aftermarket intake system on my bmw 118i. Best decision ever. Don’t think I got any power increase but the car felt more lively. Not to mention the sound! Got that aggressive blow off sound.
I did notice a slight gain in torque between the filters on the bmw as it being NA usually hard to get bhp from stuff like this but torque seems to get increased with more flow on naturally aspirated engines
Gauze filters allow dirt particles to enter the intake which wears out the rings and adds to valve deposits, especially with DI engines. Think about those modded Honda Civics blowing smoke from the tailpipe from a K&N filter. The dirt gets into the oil and shows up in Used Oil Analysis as silicon, and extra tin, from the rings.
Thoroughly entertaining. Once upon a time I had a tuned 320i, mapped with a new ECU and special filters. I worked on a road construction site that was very dusty and the filters got blocked. Found that out when I got on to the motorway and the engine gulped air. It swallowed the S&M gear and was a tow job. Just buy Mahle from a shop that has a high turnover. Cheap stuff on eBay may be delivered to your door, but can be old and flabby or cracked.
On certain cars especially if you get a tune, yes. You might think its nothing to gain 6 but you gotta think that's 6 WHP which is quite a bit more in crank HP if you could do the math
this came in handy for me. I dont have an expensive or a fancy car, I only have a 1.4 NA 2016 corsa, I've tried different filters to try and get a slight power increase. I've had universal filters, a ram air system and now using an enclosed carbon fibre filter with direct cold intake pipe drawing air from the largest open gap under the bonnet. at times it can really pull strong and at times it doesnt pull as good. makes me consider about the heat shielding.
This confirm that: I've always run oiled foam air filter on my offroad toys and new drop in paper filter in my cars. Never had a problem. A tune with manifold will bring more hp to the table that a 600$ intake. Just as a reference a 5.7 Toy Tundra use the same air filter as a 3.5 Tacoma🤓
I thought i will take a chance and installed a bmc drop in filter and was suprized by the improved fuel economy from my 1.4 zetec s. I also had a fairly new oem filter previously so i did not thought i would see any improvement. From a power point of view not much if any. But seems like a bit more power low end not sure.
Very good subject, new opportunities for you guys and excellent videos for us. Cone filter are so funny on NA engine. No power gain but the noise is so exciting.
Although this topic was tested so many times, I really like this video more. Good job. Btw, I bought 4seasons gen3 tires for my daily and they are superb
Could you do a tyre video for dummies? Just explaining the meaning of all the numbers and how you choose the tyre number (or thats fully determine by the car model etc.) Thanks
That Skoda still sounds like a pretty nippy car. I'd be very interested in something even lower, like a 1.0 TSi EA211 or a DV5 in their lowest states of tune. I'm not massively surprised with filters, Mat at Carwow lost a little power at all but the top end by putting a K&N filter in his 996... but gained noise... which is the only reason he kept it in.
To be honest I thought, that the results will be quite opposite. That the naturally aspirated M3 will see a negligible increase and the turbo charge octavia would have the same power because the turbocharger will be "always" able to push needed air.
Just ask your self “ why do manufactures use paper filters?” Believe me stick with paper . I’ve used K&N ,Green cotton and pipercross. All they do is allow more dirt into your engine and shorten its life.
Absolutely! If you want to trash your engine from lousy filtering, use a K&N filter. If you want to see how awful the K&N is compared to a paper filter, look at the “Project Farm” test.
Not claiming to be an expert or anything, but my intuition says that especially for the NA car, you would need to give it a tune to take advantage of the extra air coming into the engine?
As much as I appreciate these tests as to what happens at the rev limit, I really care more about the drivability and whether it will create valleys or smooth out the torque graph in the range that I drive. Else a video is just academic and purely for the drag strip.
So are is review saying that the OEM filter and close airbox is better then an open filter for a tube car?. I have an E90 335i and I believe that a close airbox is better. I'm also tuned with stock turbos
Yes please have more test. Like obd/chip tuning on natural aspirated engines will it make an big difference. Or hp difference in octane 98 fuell against Shell V-Power or the diesel versions. Or semi synthetic oil vs fully synthetic oil will it gain some hp.
Great video! I've got an EP3 and just installed a tegiwa induction kit where the filter sits inside a box and the scoop goes up towards the scuttle pannel. The throttle response feels better and the noise is great. Do you think this test is relatable to the majority of cars and kits out there?
That Gruppe M kit is particularly effective. Though on the genuine Gruppe M, the smooth mould side is on the outside of the duct instead of the instead of the duct, which is not ideal (Formula One intake ducts most definitely have the smooth mould side on the inside, and the coarse side on the outside!).
Hot air is REALY bad, especially for turbo spark ignition engines, since the chance of uncontrolled detonation is increased. In order to avoid pinging, the ECU should retard ignition to compensate, leading to even more loss of power than the loss of air density alone.
They are absolutely Savage when you do that. Did the first G Power SK2 in the UK and the first Rotrex based UK made kit too. Was insane. Vortech based ESS is also excellent.
@@salmanjanjua4039 Sadly, I went with Active Autowerke and the HKS GTS8550 which had such issues that HKS USA pulled out of the United States instead of fixing all their bad blowers.
@@tyrereviews A natural expansion to other products would be rims. How much does a heavier/lighter rim, with the same tyre, affect the ride/handling/acceleration/braking etc? How much difference in tyre width fits to a 6", 6,5", 7" wide rim? Let's say I already have this X inch rim, what tyre widths can I fit to it?
@@tyrereviews No!!! This is good. I admit to being tempted with an Eventuri for my Audi ( they do look very nice and they claim up to 25 bhp extra!!) You just saved me a load of wasted cash. Thank you!
I’d vote for a filtration follow-up, find a lab to test the quality of the filtration- I’ve always wondered if some of these high flow filters are allowing dirty air enter the engine - actually potentially damaging the engine. Maybe an interview with an engineer to get perspective on just how damaging abrasive air can be on an engine
Definitely more of a difference on a turbo engine, when you do the next video maybe just stick to the ea888 gen3 engine and do a selection of induction kits/filters. So pipercross, bmc, k&n, ramair, forge, racing line, eventuri and stock.
Filter alone won’t do much change, you need to remap the computer that regulates amount of air let in the engine. Computer controls amount of air mixture with fuel to burn and create power. When you remap your engine, only then you would make use of filter that lets more air thro. Be aware more air means more dust. K&N filter has oil over it to prevent that, but it also gets dirty faster cus of that. I would avoid it and just use stock air filter.
Jonathan, thanks for the interesting swerve in terms of subject matter - As someone else has said, not only do these aftermarket filters make no worthwhile performance improvement, As you called out, Project Farm has proven just how much more dirt they let into the engine too, so they are to be completely avoided - spend your money on OE or else top quality aftermarket standard filters instead!
Many guys switch old used paper filter to new K&N or other high flow filter and are astonished by "HOW MUCH MORE HP NOW I GOT, IT FEELS A LOT NIPPIER etc." But they do not take into account that they are comparing OLD USED filter vs NEW. As the comparison should be NEW vs NEW where difference is minimal. Thanks for video.
When you think about it logically it's not a surprise. The Manufacturers who spend millions developing Cars, Engines and everything about them design the most efficient airflow. Unless you change multiple items and parameters, a one item change is not going to work wonders.
Yes and no. I agree that the M3's intake was pretty much maxed out from the factory. But there are still Tons of cars out there that have a restrictive intake and can be improved upon
It's strange but the airbox is called a suction silencer in the bmw etk. And believe me, in my 328 e46, the box has a strange shape with hole and short hose going nowhere. So remove the component 'lowering the sound' and it might be possible to gain something... at least a better sound, a far better sound, oh my god. Installing a carbon Simota is the first piece I would change if I had to change of bmw. (the cone breathes the air coming from the region of the anti-fog light).
I know for a fact that K&N filters give you 1 extra horsepower. Because when you buy one, it comes with one K&N sticker and everyone knows you get 1 hp per sticker...
@@tyrereviews if you can fit it in the budget you should check out the Eventuri air intake plenum for the E92. I have followed Matt Moreman from Obsessed Garage for some time and he installed that modification; it ended up sounding absolutely insane. His UA-cam channel is just called Obsessed Garage if you feel like looking it up. Thanks as always for the videos!
Paper filters are used in hospital grade HEPA filtration systems. If you want more power while retaining top notch OE grade air filtration, just use more filter area, like what BMW has already done in this instance.
perfromance drop in filter seem to only work for cars with rather restrictive intake from factory cars like bmw m have excelent factory intake that is already insulated and have great flow so its harder to improve upon those cars with just a drop in filter.
Excellent video, really enjoyed it. Looking forward to see the E92 build series. Could you cover what you have done to it so far to get it up to scratch? That would make for an interesting video. I have seen the Project Farm video on filtration. As a lifelong K&N user it was quite shocking. Safe to say that I have gone back to OE paper filters on all my vehicles. That tiny increase (if any!) in power is not worth drawing dirt through the engine. Clean, genuine paper filter at every service for me now. If you could do a video on this that would be great. With your level of attention to detail it would be an eye opener for a lot of people! Keep up the good work.👍
Performance air filter makes a positive difference if it's a part of a comprehensive upgrade, involving at least exhaust and dyno tuning. In modern cars induction systems are very well engineered and if you only change the filter it may lower the performance and increase MPG. Sometimes it will give you the impression of a better performance because of change in the torque curve but those go away quickly as soon as you start recording times or put your car on a dyno :/. For small but noticeable performance gains just keep an eye on the tires pressure and get rid of unnecessary junk from your car :D
I have Pipercross on my Mk6 Jetta. While power increase is minimal, the biggest difference is how much more responsive it's got in low throttle as well as off-on throttle situations.
This feeling is called “freer” but I guess it will not last more than 3k kilometers until you loose this feeling. With oil filters like K&N you have the same feeling for 9k kilometers. Waiting your experience if you have 1-2 min for a comment sir.
Best Intakes are with a completely closed box, tube optimized with a symmetrical cone filter in it. Sucking air really from the outside with a light ram effect. Got one in my 2019 Mustang 5.0 and was really impressed with the result of throttle response and low rpm torque!
Because the engine does indeed breath easier when using an air filter with HOLES in the media. Hahaha. A bump in power anywhere in the rev range is expected... technically. 🤷🏻♂️ But I’d rather my engine breath CLEAR Air. 👍🏻
Interested to see how these affected the power curves on each run. Its not just about peak power figures, sometimes they can add in the mid range and increase the overall area under the curve. I guess not all high flow air filters have bigger holes either. If you add surface area by increasing the number of folds for example you can increase airflow without increasing the size of the holes. Obviously manufacturers will optimise components based on a number of factors, cost and performance being 2 of them. On a high performance car like the m3 I would expect performance is given a bit more priority. And we all love the sound of an induction kit!
This made me chuckle, back in my youthful days i owned a Integra type r, air filters were an area of hot debate ie 50% believed in stock, the other 50% stated better performance with other filters. I was in the stock camp. Good seeing your great testing methodology being used on other car related stuff.
Please stick to tyres I went over the comments and generalization is all over the place. I’ve seen some good improvements on older cars, backed by the data of the rolling road. I’ve got the impression that there are loads of dependencies and at least some of the reputated brands do invest quite some time in design and testing. I respect your work and test results, but they are only valid for the tested cars and tested filters.
Bought a MST Cold air intake kit for my old Audi A3 8V 1.4TFSI 122hp and the difference was feelable, way better on higher revs, more responsive and was 0.1s faster :) and it keeped the car cold on higher speed + lower consumption on high speeds Cons was that the car was weak under low rpm... +the sound it maked was insane, but a lot of noise in dayli driving. didnt dyno test it.
That may happen if you dont know how to coat the filter correctly because alot of people put too much oil. But if you do one pass with the spray on each pleat then you will never have anything to worry about.
Yeah but that’s not interesting.... because then you can’t be negative about what is everyone is doing. Now everybody will watch this because they are offended because they have it on their cars.
OEM's for all their detractors do know the odd thing on vehicle design after all, Aftermarket Air filters are really only good for emptying your wallet.
Bigger holes means more air... and more dirt. Project Farm channel have a great film on the dirt filtering (or lack thereof) of high flow filters. I know I'm not using them anymore especially for the minuscule power gains
I’m right with you on this one - a K&N used to be the first thing I did to my cars - no longer since watching the project farm vid! And this video only serves to confirm they’re a complete waste of money.
Some Tuner not related to this video said on a completely other topic something to performance filters. He asked his mechanic on how the turbine blades looked like from cars with performance filters. He said like sanded or something like that. On the other hand I hat a very short period this kind of filter. My blade looks like it had eaten some bigger rocks 😂
Don't be afraid to make content that is not directly about a car tyre - this was fantastic. The main part I watch your content is your meticulousness and how easy it is to understand your explanations and logic. Thumbs up.
Think the panel or cone filters make sense for a car that sees most of it time on track... but any considerable road driving I think outweighs the pros of them pretty fast... can spend all the money you want on mods but if it can't run reliably whats the point aye!
I was going to mention that project farm video right as you mentioned it. That K&N test was ridiculous. I've used K&N before and I probably never will ever again.
The car is pulling back ignition timing hard for some reason, I suspect it's a stuck wastegate and it's overboosting but I've not had time to check yet
I watched several videos to consider cold air system or just performance filter. One an engineer showed a dry filter from AEM beat K & N in flow and filtration. I had old school Nova SS used a K & N with a lunati racing cam in 406 small block not sure if dud better than a Delco. My Monte pulled 305 out 454 in again k vrs AC. With the immense torque uncertain. I compared K & N to the AEM notice the AEM has more filtering. Just like the video stated and demonstrated. The k had 2 layers of oiled cotton guaze vrs AEM 4 fine weave cotton. It helps my off the line sluggish problem I modified my Silverado air cleaner it really woke it up. MPG is better engine sounds better, exhaust I'd quieter until apply more throttle then sunds very throaty. It makes the hills easier no more 4th to 3rd a lot, take off is much better. Try it and see what uou think. K& N 79.99 AEM 59.99 Both can be cleaned and are one dry other oil.
So there are two different situations to discuss here. 1. The NA engine. There engines are pure unaided air pumps. They can suck air in as much as configuration allows (intake, exhaust, intake and exhaust valve overlap, intake valve timing using the variable valve timing actuators/pinions they may have if it's the case, and so on). The other things that matter when talking power are kind of fixed: ignition timing advance and air fuel ratios. However as you've seen the first run produced quite a bit of power and that was because the engine was cooler after it was probably stopped for a while to strap the car on the dyno. Once heat soak comes into play you will see a drop in performance no matter what you do, more evident than with turbocharged engines, simply because they suck in volume and not mass, because that's how they work. 2. the turbo charged engine. These engines are load tuned, meaning that at a certain RPM and acceleration pedal opening the ECU software targets a certain load. load is directly proportional with the mass of air. This means that depending on the conditions (intake air temperature, atmospheric pressure) the ECU software will adjust the turbo wastegate up and down to make it push the desired amount (read "mass") of air to hit its target. If the conditions are harsher (higher IATs, lower baro pressure, less permissive air filter, and so on) you will simply see higher wastegate duty cycle - read "the turbo will work harder" so reach that target. With the factory calibration it will eventually hit it no doubt, even if there will be like 0.2-0.5 seconds delay due to the more aggressive actuation for the wastegate. So no matter what you do these turbocharged engines will stay around the load target at each RPM point. The only things that will affect power will be the ignition timing andvance and air fuel ratio which may vary if the post filter (intake) temps are high and/or the intake manifold air temps (BAT - boosted air temps) are above a certain threshold, which will make the AFRs go richer and the timing go less aggressive to prevent knock, both having a negative effect on peak torque at each RPM point (torque * RPM * some constant will give you the actual power). As a conclusion, these high performance air filters will not add that much power, usually none at all. Yes ,the factory or OEM-like paper filters seem more dense but also look at the total surface compared to the cotton wet or dry performance filters from KN, AEM, RamAir, Green, whoever: the factory filders have a larger surface even if when comparing 1cm2 with 1cm2 the OEM-like seems more restrictive. The intakes are sized properly so that with the OEM manifolds, exhaust systems, catalythic converters, turbos when it's the case, and so on, no chocking will actually occur in normal conditions. Another common mistake people do when they add cone filter intakes is that they neglect the radiant heat which is now sucked by that filter, while with the factory air box the air is drawn from outside the car, totally or at least partially. And one more thing people get tricked by when replacing the factory intakes with aftermarket intakes which also have a different Mass Air Flow sensor housing is that at the beginning they will see an increase in power due to the increase in air flow and leaner AFRs. But that happens one or two pulls before the ECU adapts with the fuel trim mechanism and compensates for the air flow deviation just like it does between summer and winter, or with fuels which may have more or less oxygenated additives in them (usually ethanol). When the car gets modified, even with an ECU tune, these better flowing filters come into play and indeed may bring performance past a certain point. Up until that point they are like trying to get a drop of water through a 16mm garden hose or through a 1000mm industrial drain tube, the drop of water with go through both with the same speed because it will not be enough to have enough restriction. However when you start pumping more water the 16mm garden hose will show its weaknesses compared to the 1000mm industrial drain cement tube. Long comment for an youtube post, but I hope this clears it all :)
*"When the car gets modified, even with an ECU tune, these better flowing filters come into play and indeed may bring performance past a certain point"* So which modifications are you referring to here? And does it depend on aspiration? Asking because you seem to know your stuff :)
@@solitaryclusterofneurons598 Yes it depends on aspiration. Basically if you test different air filters (OEM, OEM equivalent, aftermarket, cone filters of various kinds) you will not see any differences (or too small to even care,
I have a current generation mini cooper S. I've had that on a dyno with a stick filter and an ITG panel filter. With the ITG I made an extra 5hp and about 8nm torque. Not massive gains and I wouldn't say it adds power. The main reason I got is for noise. Most likely a placebo affect but the car seems slightly more responsive too
Is this small gain without any remap or piggyback and without other mods? Intested because my 230i has the B48 engine like the current Cooper S (though is longitudinal mounted, with air- water charge cooler and different tune from factory)
@@peterwatson9047 it added 3hp in standard form. I was getting a bluespark tuning box fitted at the same time with that fitted the filter was adding a 5hp gain. (tested with both itg and standard filter)
Damn lol so disappointing , and I was really thinking of putting a short ram to give my 2010 maxima a little bit of a boost 😭😭but thank you very much because that would've been money down the drain
it should be noted that gains are going to vary based on each vehicle tested. some vehicles have better stock airboxes than others. due to increasing emissions regs, most vehicles nowadays actually come with cold air intake setups from the factory. or at least, they have much bigger filters than the engine needs to run efficiently. still, some of these cars have smaller filters or extremely complex routing. changing it out for a completely new setup with a different size filter can actually yield gains. the hp increase on the VW most most likely due to the radius on the tube at its opening, more so than the filter itself. thank you for testing all these with the hood down. thats a detail that a lot of companies like to omit in order to show bigger gains.
For the Skoda, should've go with K&N 33-2865 air filter, at least that's more common and easier to get than any other aftermarket drop in air filter. Anyway, The results are quite accurate for the EA888. Really benefit from less restrictive air flow, but suffer with 'non shielded' and 'non boxed' 'cold' air intake.
Best bang for buck for turbo engines, stage 1 remap. Dyno, tune, and you're off with more hp and torque. If all you want is great performance from what you have. Just use quality or oem filters, and change the oil as often as possible.
Interesting, results were as expected though. Removing air box and sucking in warm/hot air from engine bay is never going to help. I tend to change my paper filter twice as often as you should with an OE spec one.
So what exactly happened?... 6:28 BMW Natural Aspirated - saw NO increase in power with any filters, except the dirty K&N which dropped 10hp 8:16 Skoda Turbo - Pretty much no difference as well, just 6 hp extra with the Ramair Air filter! 8:26 Conclusion: Don't spend money in expensive air filters! :)
Guessing the NM numbers were torque? it looks like the K&N got your 10NM in the BMW and both aftermarket filters got you around 10NM in your turbo car. I had an NA car that gained 13whp with just an intake (no tune)...or about a 5% gain. It was dynoed several times with several configurations and repeatable results. Yes, most intakes don't make sense and most will need a tune to make a pitiful amount of difference. The 13whp was my one hit wonder.
Sometimes changing the airfilter system can even significantly lower your power. Most cars' stock airbox is pretty basic, but pulls fresh air from outside. Cheap "upgrades" often require you to remove that airbox and put a round filter under the hood. This makes you pull in (much) warmer air, since it is now pulling air from next to the engine. My tip is: generally it is hardly any use to change the airfilter setup, unless the original system is very restrictive. And even if that is the case, sometimes it is better to then slightly modify the stock setup. The airbox in my car had a sort of restrictive pipe inside the airbox. This was easily removed, it was just clipped into place (so I didn't even have to break anything). The only thing I then did was put in a flat K&N airfilter and for less then 40 euro I was done. Not sure how much I gained, probably low single digits in HP and maybe around 10-15 Nm, but the investment was very low and the car feels a more responsive on the throttle, mostly in the lower to mid RPM range. It also sounds a bit nicer, which is a bonus.
bmc or K&N drop in filter your gonna get 1-2% percent better at best the intake sound engine response is deffinitly a bonus if your in to those sought of thingi have brz mt have bmc filter tuned and carback exhuast makes about 15 extra hp combine not a significant bump in power but the car feels great better engine response more race car sound.
Really interesting review, one area that would be nice to see is throttle responses and or turbo spool time. I've felt no more power with mods like these but it "felt" like I had better throttle responses... I wonder whether a neutral rev responses time would be a measure. An overlay of torque figures would have been interested as they did see gain! Either way a very fair test all things considered.
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So many channels have done this with the wrong cars. I put K&Ns on my 5th gen 4Runner and it makes a world of difference. Stop using sports cars. Use them on SUVs and Trucks. Especially with the 4Runner, replacing the filter makes the whole thing a cold air intake. You don't need the trd pro cold air intake, the OEM one is already one, just missing the K&N filter.
@@DonutsReview the problem with putting them on trucks or SUVs is that they are meant to be operated off road, on construction sites, or farms, where they will be subjected to far higher amounts of airborne dust and dirt that could be sucked into the engine. Seems like a pretty poor use case for a filter that’s meant to increase air intake by doing a less effective job of filtering the air.
After all, there’s only so much room for the filter under the hood, which is usually already filled with the paper filter. So you can’t make the surface area of the filter much bigger, and if your not forcing induction, then the only way to get a naturally aspirated engine to suck more air through the same size filter is to make the holes in the filter bigger and therefore less restrictive.
I agree they can produce a little more horsepower (and improve the exhaust note), but unless we’re talking about a truck that’s used solely for towing on pavement, or a pavement poseur SUV that only gets near dirt when driving by road construction on the way to the mall, then it’s a pretty dubious application for these filters, in my humble opinion.
(Oh, and I say this as someone with an AIRAID CAI on his pavement poseur SUV. And yes, it did add some horsepower and combined with the 3” cat-back exhaust system, sounds sweet as hell! 😁 if I have to head for the dirt, the factory box goes back in.)
@@RickinICT what's the stats like 90% of off road vehicles purchased never goes off road. I understand that you'd need normal filters off road, but it's worth talking about the experience with K&N on road. It changes the driving dynamic so much. Also lost 2 mpg on local drives but gained 2 mpg on longer drives.
Do you have discount on app?
I buy carly!
@@ingcool27 Use the code "TYRES" for 20% off
The intake system on M cars are generally fantastic from stock. The only true benefit from aftermarket is sound.
Same with exhausts in naturally aspirated engines. Engine in Clio 3 RS with stock exhaust usually overdelivers in terms of power, but the exhaust note is a bit quiet. Touch the exhaust and you lose 15-20 HP instantly.
This is very true, especially for the Eventuri. It is expensive for what it is, although I really do like the noise from mine, and the low end improvement in driveability.
On the exhaust front the benefit really comes from removing restrictions e.g. cats, ppf etc. Weight is the other benefit from exhaust changes but again its quite marginal.
@@Freshiemaster it's not just restrictions in a naturally aspirated engine, there's something called exhaust scavenging that happens around certain RPM, by going catless you might bring down the scavenging effect to lower RPMs, and sure, you will boost the mid-range, but you'll lose the top end and obviously power. That's why some cars (like mentioned Clio) don't like better flowing exhausts, the factory one provides plenty of flow while optimizing exhaust scavenging for max power.
@@arekb5951 the only advantage you can get with exhausts is completely removing catalitic converters AND totally reworking the header to scavenge properly with the reduced backpressure
Short answer: “No.”
Long answer: “Possibly, but no.”
Thank you
Well on a regular car no but if it's tune then yes
@@danielcasillas1133 I think still no... Maybe few extra hp, but with the money they cost, you better put them in something more efficient... So, still No!
@@danielcasillas1133 intake tuned and catback exhuast will net you no more 10% percent of power from a stock naturally aspirated engine anything more your talking about full exhuast engine internals cams and proper race intake box and torttle body and proper ecu work not just a tuned like motec or fcon.
On a stock motor, no
On a built motor, yes
I’ve installed aftermarket intake system on my bmw 118i. Best decision ever. Don’t think I got any power increase but the car felt more lively. Not to mention the sound! Got that aggressive blow off sound.
I did notice a slight gain in torque between the filters on the bmw as it being NA usually hard to get bhp from stuff like this but torque seems to get increased with more flow on naturally aspirated engines
Gauze filters allow dirt particles to enter the intake which wears out the rings and adds to valve deposits, especially with DI engines. Think about those modded Honda Civics blowing smoke from the tailpipe from a K&N filter. The dirt gets into the oil and shows up in Used Oil Analysis as silicon, and extra tin, from the rings.
Thoroughly entertaining. Once upon a time I had a tuned 320i, mapped with a new ECU and special filters. I worked on a road construction site that was very dusty and the filters got blocked. Found that out when I got on to the motorway and the engine gulped air. It swallowed the S&M gear and was a tow job.
Just buy Mahle from a shop that has a high turnover. Cheap stuff on eBay may be delivered to your door, but can be old and flabby or cracked.
Would be interesting to make a try with NO filter at all... just to see, maybe assuring it gets fresh air. Nice work as always Jonathan!
put 3 inch exhaust, high performance cat, cherry bomb and k/n filter on my 1984 f150 4x4, 4.9 back in 1985, went from 13 mpg to 18 low 21 high mpg
and extra BARP
On certain cars especially if you get a tune, yes. You might think its nothing to gain 6 but you gotta think that's 6 WHP which is quite a bit more in crank HP if you could do the math
Awesome vid! Congrats for venturing away from tyres!!! I can imagine it wasn't an easy decision but it worked!
Thanks! 👍
Should have had an enclosed filter also, my Seat Ibiza cupra dynod at 195bhp completely stock, on the same dyno with a inclosed system it made 206
this came in handy for me. I dont have an expensive or a fancy car, I only have a 1.4 NA 2016 corsa, I've tried different filters to try and get a slight power increase. I've had universal filters, a ram air system and now using an enclosed carbon fibre filter with direct cold intake pipe drawing air from the largest open gap under the bonnet. at times it can really pull strong and at times it doesnt pull as good. makes me consider about the heat shielding.
But the sound
@@tyrereviews it definitely sounds better than some wee chavs 1L corsa C with a Halfords filter 😂😂
Torque does get increased, which translate to strong acceleration; whether that's noticeable is different matter.
Did you repeat the test with the same filter for internal test consistency, such as car heating? You did.... Well-done.
smaller displacement cars will have decent gains. 6HP and extra 10-20nm is considered good especially because they're cheap and easy to install.
The only way to get more performance from an air filter is to increase air flow. That is only possible if you reduce the filtration of the air filter.
Overall the clean K&N gave the best power and torque then
This confirm that: I've always run oiled foam air filter on my offroad toys and new drop in paper filter in my cars.
Never had a problem.
A tune with manifold will bring more hp to the table that a 600$ intake.
Just as a reference a 5.7 Toy Tundra use the same air filter as a 3.5 Tacoma🤓
I've never seen a K&N filter that dirty! IF the paper one was that soiled, you'd be happy if the Beamer even started up!😂
I used to have the injen cold air intake with K&N filters. They do allow for more HP, but you’re giving up air filtration quality. Now I stick to OEM.
I thought i will take a chance and installed a bmc drop in filter and was suprized by the improved fuel economy from my 1.4 zetec s. I also had a fairly new oem filter previously so i did not thought i would see any improvement. From a power point of view not much if any. But seems like a bit more power low end not sure.
Very good subject, new opportunities for you guys and excellent videos for us.
Cone filter are so funny on NA engine. No power gain but the noise is so exciting.
I love the noise
Although this topic was tested so many times, I really like this video more.
Good job. Btw, I bought 4seasons gen3 tires for my daily and they are superb
Great to hear! Let me know how you find them once you've some miles on them
Could you do a tyre video for dummies? Just explaining the meaning of all the numbers and how you choose the tyre number (or thats fully determine by the car model etc.) Thanks
I'll put it on the list :)
That Skoda still sounds like a pretty nippy car. I'd be very interested in something even lower, like a 1.0 TSi EA211 or a DV5 in their lowest states of tune.
I'm not massively surprised with filters, Mat at Carwow lost a little power at all but the top end by putting a K&N filter in his 996... but gained noise... which is the only reason he kept it in.
I went back to paper, but I can't wait to get the eventuri in full time, just for noise if not power!
The BMW engineers did a fantastic job of optimizing the air cleaner so that it was not a hindrance.
To be honest I thought, that the results will be quite opposite. That the naturally aspirated M3 will see a negligible increase and the turbo charge octavia would have the same power because the turbocharger will be "always" able to push needed air.
I would guess VW aimed for longevity so went with lots of filtration
nice test, nice geeking out ! love it !
keep up the good work
Definitely wanna see those tested
Very nice real life application of project farm experiment
Didn't expect you also watch project farm 😅
He's a geek and I'm a geek. I don't expect him to watch me though :D
Just ask your self “ why do manufactures use paper filters?”
Believe me stick with paper .
I’ve used K&N ,Green cotton and pipercross.
All they do is allow more dirt into your engine and shorten its life.
Absolutely! If you want to trash your engine from lousy filtering, use a K&N filter. If you want to see how awful the K&N is compared to a paper filter, look at the “Project Farm” test.
Here in the US, k&n claim slight increase 🤣 why do I want to get oil on my map censor.
Try the skoda again mapped. Vag cars choke up with stock intake.
Once it's fixed :)
Not claiming to be an expert or anything, but my intuition says that especially for the NA car, you would need to give it a tune to take advantage of the extra air coming into the engine?
I'm going to find out :)
Eventuri said, that vehicle must achieve higher speed to fully enhance incremental air mass into the system. So test on dyno wont prove it.
As much as I appreciate these tests as to what happens at the rev limit, I really care more about the drivability and whether it will create valleys or smooth out the torque graph in the range that I drive.
Else a video is just academic and purely for the drag strip.
So are is review saying that the OEM filter and close airbox is better then an open filter for a tube car?. I have an E90 335i and I believe that a close airbox is better. I'm also tuned with stock turbos
Really nice with e REAL Air Filter review.
Big fan of Projectfarm too. 👍👍
Yes please have more test. Like obd/chip tuning on natural aspirated engines will it make an big difference. Or hp difference in octane 98 fuell against Shell V-Power or the diesel versions. Or semi synthetic oil vs fully synthetic oil will it gain some hp.
They're all now on the list to do :)
A whole 2.48% power increase on the Skoda. Probably within the range of error of the dyno?
It was a consistent gain across all runs and power dropped back to stock at the end so I'd call it geniune
but it did have more torgque (m3)
Great video! I've got an EP3 and just installed a tegiwa induction kit where the filter sits inside a box and the scoop goes up towards the scuttle pannel. The throttle response feels better and the noise is great. Do you think this test is relatable to the majority of cars and kits out there?
tegiwa are great guys! Every car will react differently, so it's just a rule of thumb
That Gruppe M kit is particularly effective. Though on the genuine Gruppe M, the smooth mould side is on the outside of the duct instead of the instead of the duct, which is not ideal (Formula One intake ducts most definitely have the smooth mould side on the inside, and the coarse side on the outside!).
just buy a new OEM filter, and spend money on good wheels and tires
Did you perform more than one test for each filter?
Because the ECU needs to learn and rebuild some tables.
Yes, 4-6 runs as the ecu adapted
Hot air is REALY bad, especially for turbo spark ignition engines, since the chance of uncontrolled detonation is increased. In order to avoid pinging, the ECU should retard ignition to compensate, leading to even more loss of power than the loss of air density alone.
Oh pipex is the brand you said pipe across which was confusing it sounded like you were describing the setup lol okay so my thought was correct
I just want to say that dyno reads wheel hp, of course it will be less than what BMW says, their measurement is crank hp.
Wish you used an ITG which apparently are the best filter to get, used in F1 and I've heard WRC but haven't found any evidence of that.
Make filtration test! :)
:D
@@tyrereviews Really looking forward 2 it, i already have a KN panel. So i dont know if im gonna throw it out, or get the cone with shield😅
I'll continue to use what the manufacturer recommends.
I love anything this guy puts out, even if it isn't fully tyre related, he is just so meticulous with his testing.
Thanks dude :D
Go check out project farm like he said, if you like this meticulous testing you will surely enjoy project farm as well.
I found the best way to get more airflow into my M3's engine was to bolt on my supercharger.
haha nice :)
@@tyrereviews You have great content by the way. Thank you very much!
@@rev68 Appreciated :D
They are absolutely Savage when you do that. Did the first G Power SK2 in the UK and the first Rotrex based UK made kit too. Was insane. Vortech based ESS is also excellent.
@@salmanjanjua4039 Sadly, I went with Active Autowerke and the HKS GTS8550 which had such issues that HKS USA pulled out of the United States instead of fixing all their bad blowers.
“10 power”
“Hot air bad, even if it’s lots”
Couple quotes in there made me laugh 😂
Finally a not a tyre related video in Tyre Reviews channel
I hope I can sneak a few in without upsetting too many people :)
@@tyrereviews A natural expansion to other products would be rims.
How much does a heavier/lighter rim, with the same tyre, affect the ride/handling/acceleration/braking etc?
How much difference in tyre width fits to a 6", 6,5", 7" wide rim? Let's say I already have this X inch rim, what tyre widths can I fit to it?
@@TS-gg9dk Also on the list :)
@@tyrereviews Great! Love watching your videos. Quality content! 👍💪
@@tyrereviews No!!! This is good. I admit to being tempted with an Eventuri for my Audi ( they do look very nice and they claim up to 25 bhp extra!!) You just saved me a load of wasted cash. Thank you!
I’d vote for a filtration follow-up, find a lab to test the quality of the filtration- I’ve always wondered if some of these high flow filters are allowing dirty air enter the engine - actually potentially damaging the engine. Maybe an interview with an engineer to get perspective on just how damaging abrasive air can be on an engine
Great idea with the interview :) I'll get researching
Read my post.
Definitely more of a difference on a turbo engine, when you do the next video maybe just stick to the ea888 gen3 engine and do a selection of induction kits/filters. So pipercross, bmc, k&n, ramair, forge, racing line, eventuri and stock.
Project Farm did scientific analysis of the filtration.
ua-cam.com/video/sJ3L-E-ufYo/v-deo.html
Yes they do. This is one of the better pages about it www.project200.com.au/dm-iso5011/
Stick to OEM, all I needed to know when LLF got his M4 tuned at Pure Turbos, they recommended the OEM housing and filter.. They make 800hp+ monsters
I did not know that! BMW make a wicked intake!
@@tyrereviews I know right, lol I was just re-watching - ua-cam.com/video/6Oa9ZBH9OWw/v-deo.html&ab_channel=LivingLifeFast - 3:40 secs
don't forget the insurance increase for a "performance" filter too!
allothernamesbutthis no increase in us lol
@@tyrereviewsMost OEM spend millions designing intakes. No after market sources do.
Filter alone won’t do much change, you need to remap the computer that regulates amount of air let in the engine. Computer controls amount of air mixture with fuel to burn and create power.
When you remap your engine, only then you would make use of filter that lets more air thro. Be aware more air means more dust. K&N filter has oil over it to prevent that, but it also gets dirty faster cus of that.
I would avoid it and just use stock air filter.
Jonathan, thanks for the interesting swerve in terms of subject matter - As someone else has said, not only do these aftermarket filters make no worthwhile performance improvement, As you called out, Project Farm has proven just how much more dirt they let into the engine too, so they are to be completely avoided - spend your money on OE or else top quality aftermarket standard filters instead!
Many guys switch old used paper filter to new K&N or other high flow filter and are astonished by "HOW MUCH MORE HP NOW I GOT, IT FEELS A LOT NIPPIER etc."
But they do not take into account that they are comparing OLD USED filter vs NEW.
As the comparison should be NEW vs NEW where difference is minimal.
Thanks for video.
Solid point :)
When you think about it logically it's not a surprise. The Manufacturers who spend millions developing Cars, Engines and everything about them design the most efficient airflow.
Unless you change multiple items and parameters, a one item change is not going to work wonders.
I can't wait to try it with the exhaust and remap
Yes and no. I agree that the M3's intake was pretty much maxed out from the factory. But there are still Tons of cars out there that have a restrictive intake and can be improved upon
its a shame that the BMW guys forgot to retest all those common faults tho eh? hahahahah
It's strange but the airbox is called a suction silencer in the bmw etk. And believe me, in my 328 e46, the box has a strange shape with hole and short hose going nowhere. So remove the component 'lowering the sound' and it might be possible to gain something... at least a better sound, a far better sound, oh my god.
Installing a carbon Simota is the first piece I would change if I had to change of bmw. (the cone breathes the air coming from the region of the anti-fog light).
What have we learned? That Eventuri are a bunch of theives 😂
But they Look good
@@shredthetrack6858 That is all you are buying. Looks.
@@machtschnell7452 and sound
I know for a fact that K&N filters give you 1 extra horsepower. Because when you buy one, it comes with one K&N sticker and everyone knows you get 1 hp per sticker...
oo I need more stickers
Excited for the E92 series; I’ll keep an eye out!
I can't wait to actually do it! I've been trying to get this done for nearly 2 years now!
@@tyrereviews if you can fit it in the budget you should check out the Eventuri air intake plenum for the E92. I have followed Matt Moreman from Obsessed Garage for some time and he installed that modification; it ended up sounding absolutely insane. His UA-cam channel is just called Obsessed Garage if you feel like looking it up. Thanks as always for the videos!
@@curtr.5083 I've seen it and it's absolutely dreamy, I just don't think I'll have the budget: (
@@tyrereviews it is super expensive; no worries!
Paper filters are used in hospital grade HEPA filtration systems. If you want more power while retaining top notch OE grade air filtration, just use more filter area, like what BMW has already done in this instance.
perfromance drop in filter seem to only work for cars with rather restrictive intake from factory cars like bmw m have excelent factory intake that is already insulated and have great flow so its harder to improve upon those cars with just a drop in filter.
Excellent video, really enjoyed it. Looking forward to see the E92 build series. Could you cover what you have done to it so far to get it up to scratch? That would make for an interesting video.
I have seen the Project Farm video on filtration. As a lifelong K&N user it was quite shocking. Safe to say that I have gone back to OE paper filters on all my vehicles. That tiny increase (if any!) in power is not worth drawing dirt through the engine. Clean, genuine paper filter at every service for me now. If you could do a video on this that would be great. With your level of attention to detail it would be an eye opener for a lot of people! Keep up the good work.👍
That's a good idea for a video, though if I look at all the costs involved I might end up crying! I'll add it to the list
Performance air filter makes a positive difference if it's a part of a comprehensive upgrade, involving at least exhaust and dyno tuning. In modern cars induction systems are very well engineered and if you only change the filter it may lower the performance and increase MPG. Sometimes it will give you the impression of a better performance because of change in the torque curve but those go away quickly as soon as you start recording times or put your car on a dyno :/. For small but noticeable performance gains just keep an eye on the tires pressure and get rid of unnecessary junk from your car :D
I have Pipercross on my Mk6 Jetta. While power increase is minimal, the biggest difference is how much more responsive it's got in low throttle as well as off-on throttle situations.
But with that message nobody will watch this clip... clickbait af
This feeling is called “freer” but I guess it will not last more than 3k kilometers until you loose this feeling. With oil filters like K&N you have the same feeling for 9k kilometers. Waiting your experience if you have 1-2 min for a comment sir.
Best Intakes are with a completely closed box, tube optimized with a symmetrical cone filter in it. Sucking air really from the outside with a light ram effect.
Got one in my 2019 Mustang 5.0 and was really impressed with the result of throttle response and low rpm torque!
Must sound great too..
So glad you referenced Project Farm test. It was one of the best out there. Thanks for making the vid!
He's great :)
No more HP but between 6 and 10 Nm more torques from everything except the stock filter
Because the engine does indeed breath easier when using an air filter with HOLES in the media. Hahaha.
A bump in power anywhere in the rev range is expected... technically. 🤷🏻♂️
But I’d rather my engine breath CLEAR Air. 👍🏻
Interested to see how these affected the power curves on each run. Its not just about peak power figures, sometimes they can add in the mid range and increase the overall area under the curve. I guess not all high flow air filters have bigger holes either. If you add surface area by increasing the number of folds for example you can increase airflow without increasing the size of the holes. Obviously manufacturers will optimise components based on a number of factors, cost and performance being 2 of them. On a high performance car like the m3 I would expect performance is given a bit more priority. And we all love the sound of an induction kit!
This made me chuckle, back in my youthful days i owned a Integra type r, air filters were an area of hot debate ie 50% believed in stock, the other 50% stated better performance with other filters. I was in the stock camp. Good seeing your great testing methodology being used on other car related stuff.
Nice car :D I always wanted a DC2 then 5 then got an SW20
Please stick to tyres
I went over the comments and generalization is all over the place. I’ve seen some good improvements on older cars, backed by the data of the rolling road. I’ve got the impression that there are loads of dependencies and at least some of the reputated brands do invest quite some time in design and testing. I respect your work and test results, but they are only valid for the tested cars and tested filters.
Bought a MST Cold air intake kit for my old Audi A3 8V 1.4TFSI 122hp and the difference was feelable, way better on higher revs, more responsive and was 0.1s faster :) and it keeped the car cold on higher speed + lower consumption on high speeds
Cons was that the car was weak under low rpm...
+the sound it maked was insane, but a lot of noise in dayli driving.
didnt dyno test it.
The oil coated filters coat the maf sensor and they become contaminated and stop working.
That may happen if you dont know how to coat the filter correctly because alot of people put too much oil. But if you do one pass with the spray on each pleat then you will never have anything to worry about.
@Rob K. understood but it defeats the purpose of fitting a performance air filter if the maf can’t read the airflow and temp.
I see you only gave the peak figures, be interesting to see if any difference throughout the rev range
Yeah but that’s not interesting.... because then you can’t be negative about what is everyone is doing. Now everybody will watch this because they are offended because they have it on their cars.
OEM's for all their detractors do know the odd thing on vehicle design after all, Aftermarket Air filters are really only good for emptying your wallet.
Aftermarket "performance" manufacturers mostly earn money from RICErs.
Bigger holes means more air... and more dirt. Project Farm channel have a great film on the dirt filtering (or lack thereof) of high flow filters.
I know I'm not using them anymore especially for the minuscule power gains
I’m right with you on this one - a K&N used to be the first thing I did to my cars - no longer since watching the project farm vid! And this video only serves to confirm they’re a complete waste of money.
i was about to tell the Project Farm test on the filters too
Some Tuner not related to this video said on a completely other topic something to performance filters. He asked his mechanic on how the turbine blades looked like from cars with performance filters. He said like sanded or something like that.
On the other hand I hat a very short period this kind of filter. My blade looks like it had eaten some bigger rocks 😂
Project farm was mentioned in the video and linked in the desc :) Also yikes @Nordlicht
@@tyrereviews i thnink no big deal besides its look. There was never anything wrong and the turbine has over 200.000km.
Don't be afraid to make content that is not directly about a car tyre - this was fantastic.
The main part I watch your content is your meticulousness and how easy it is to understand your explanations and logic.
Thumbs up.
Thanks :D
Didnt produce power BUT the torque increased a lot though. Less restrictive so the car can climb through the revs quicker.
I agree, especially in Automatic cars
Think the panel or cone filters make sense for a car that sees most of it time on track... but any considerable road driving I think outweighs the pros of them pretty fast... can spend all the money you want on mods but if it can't run reliably whats the point aye!
I was going to mention that project farm video right as you mentioned it. That K&N test was ridiculous. I've used K&N before and I probably never will ever again.
What happened to your Octavia? That whole on the curve, what did it mean?
The car is pulling back ignition timing hard for some reason, I suspect it's a stuck wastegate and it's overboosting but I've not had time to check yet
I watched several videos to consider cold air system or just performance filter.
One an engineer showed a dry filter from AEM beat K & N in flow and filtration.
I had old school Nova SS used a K & N with a lunati racing cam in 406 small block not sure if dud better than a Delco.
My Monte pulled 305 out 454 in again k vrs AC. With the immense torque uncertain.
I compared K & N to the AEM notice the AEM has more filtering.
Just like the video stated and demonstrated.
The k had 2 layers of oiled cotton guaze vrs AEM 4 fine weave cotton.
It helps my off the line sluggish problem I modified my Silverado air cleaner it really woke it up.
MPG is better engine sounds better, exhaust I'd quieter until apply more throttle then sunds very throaty.
It makes the hills easier no more 4th to 3rd a lot, take off is much better.
Try it and see what uou think.
K& N 79.99
AEM 59.99
Both can be cleaned and are one dry other oil.
So there are two different situations to discuss here.
1. The NA engine. There engines are pure unaided air pumps. They can suck air in as much as configuration allows (intake, exhaust, intake and exhaust valve overlap, intake valve timing using the variable valve timing actuators/pinions they may have if it's the case, and so on). The other things that matter when talking power are kind of fixed: ignition timing advance and air fuel ratios. However as you've seen the first run produced quite a bit of power and that was because the engine was cooler after it was probably stopped for a while to strap the car on the dyno. Once heat soak comes into play you will see a drop in performance no matter what you do, more evident than with turbocharged engines, simply because they suck in volume and not mass, because that's how they work.
2. the turbo charged engine. These engines are load tuned, meaning that at a certain RPM and acceleration pedal opening the ECU software targets a certain load. load is directly proportional with the mass of air. This means that depending on the conditions (intake air temperature, atmospheric pressure) the ECU software will adjust the turbo wastegate up and down to make it push the desired amount (read "mass") of air to hit its target. If the conditions are harsher (higher IATs, lower baro pressure, less permissive air filter, and so on) you will simply see higher wastegate duty cycle - read "the turbo will work harder" so reach that target. With the factory calibration it will eventually hit it no doubt, even if there will be like 0.2-0.5 seconds delay due to the more aggressive actuation for the wastegate. So no matter what you do these turbocharged engines will stay around the load target at each RPM point. The only things that will affect power will be the ignition timing andvance and air fuel ratio which may vary if the post filter (intake) temps are high and/or the intake manifold air temps (BAT - boosted air temps) are above a certain threshold, which will make the AFRs go richer and the timing go less aggressive to prevent knock, both having a negative effect on peak torque at each RPM point (torque * RPM * some constant will give you the actual power).
As a conclusion, these high performance air filters will not add that much power, usually none at all. Yes ,the factory or OEM-like paper filters seem more dense but also look at the total surface compared to the cotton wet or dry performance filters from KN, AEM, RamAir, Green, whoever: the factory filders have a larger surface even if when comparing 1cm2 with 1cm2 the OEM-like seems more restrictive.
The intakes are sized properly so that with the OEM manifolds, exhaust systems, catalythic converters, turbos when it's the case, and so on, no chocking will actually occur in normal conditions. Another common mistake people do when they add cone filter intakes is that they neglect the radiant heat which is now sucked by that filter, while with the factory air box the air is drawn from outside the car, totally or at least partially.
And one more thing people get tricked by when replacing the factory intakes with aftermarket intakes which also have a different Mass Air Flow sensor housing is that at the beginning they will see an increase in power due to the increase in air flow and leaner AFRs. But that happens one or two pulls before the ECU adapts with the fuel trim mechanism and compensates for the air flow deviation just like it does between summer and winter, or with fuels which may have more or less oxygenated additives in them (usually ethanol).
When the car gets modified, even with an ECU tune, these better flowing filters come into play and indeed may bring performance past a certain point. Up until that point they are like trying to get a drop of water through a 16mm garden hose or through a 1000mm industrial drain tube, the drop of water with go through both with the same speed because it will not be enough to have enough restriction. However when you start pumping more water the 16mm garden hose will show its weaknesses compared to the 1000mm industrial drain cement tube.
Long comment for an youtube post, but I hope this clears it all :)
Great comment, thanks for taking the time to write it all up!
*"When the car gets modified, even with an ECU tune, these better flowing filters come into play and indeed may bring performance past a certain point"*
So which modifications are you referring to here? And does it depend on aspiration? Asking because you seem to know your stuff :)
@@solitaryclusterofneurons598 Yes it depends on aspiration. Basically if you test different air filters (OEM, OEM equivalent, aftermarket, cone filters of various kinds) you will not see any differences (or too small to even care,
I have a current generation mini cooper S. I've had that on a dyno with a stick filter and an ITG panel filter. With the ITG I made an extra 5hp and about 8nm torque. Not massive gains and I wouldn't say it adds power. The main reason I got is for noise. Most likely a placebo affect but the car seems slightly more responsive too
100% on the noise front :D 5hp is a notable increase
Is this small gain without any remap or piggyback and without other mods? Intested because my 230i has the B48 engine like the current Cooper S (though is longitudinal mounted, with air- water charge cooler and different tune from factory)
@@peterwatson9047 it added 3hp in standard form. I was getting a bluespark tuning box fitted at the same time with that fitted the filter was adding a 5hp gain. (tested with both itg and standard filter)
Would giving the ecu more time to adjust to the extra air effect the results? For example if you ran the Venturi for a week, then dyno again.
Yes brother you are correct
Damn lol so disappointing , and I was really thinking of putting a short ram to give my 2010 maxima a little bit of a boost 😭😭but thank you very much because that would've been money down the drain
it should be noted that gains are going to vary based on each vehicle tested. some vehicles have better stock airboxes than others. due to increasing emissions regs, most vehicles nowadays actually come with cold air intake setups from the factory. or at least, they have much bigger filters than the engine needs to run efficiently. still, some of these cars have smaller filters or extremely complex routing. changing it out for a completely new setup with a different size filter can actually yield gains.
the hp increase on the VW most most likely due to the radius on the tube at its opening, more so than the filter itself.
thank you for testing all these with the hood down. thats a detail that a lot of companies like to omit in order to show bigger gains.
For the Skoda, should've go with K&N 33-2865 air filter, at least that's more common and easier to get than any other aftermarket drop in air filter. Anyway, The results are quite accurate for the EA888. Really benefit from less restrictive air flow, but suffer with 'non shielded' and 'non boxed' 'cold' air intake.
Best bang for buck for turbo engines, stage 1 remap. Dyno, tune, and you're off with more hp and torque. If all you want is great performance from what you have. Just use quality or oem filters, and change the oil as often as possible.
Solid advice!
You can test the differential pressure over the filters using a vacuum cleaner, two boxes and pressure transmitters. You don't need cars to test that.
Interesting, results were as expected though. Removing air box and sucking in warm/hot air from engine bay is never going to help. I tend to change my paper filter twice as often as you should with an OE spec one.
1:12 seems like your filter sucked in neighbours cat
So what exactly happened?...
6:28 BMW Natural Aspirated - saw NO increase in power with any filters, except the dirty K&N which dropped 10hp
8:16 Skoda Turbo - Pretty much no difference as well, just 6 hp extra with the Ramair Air filter!
8:26 Conclusion: Don't spend money in expensive air filters! :)
I'd love to see some testing of wheels with different mass and see the impact to acceleration and braking
It's on the list :)
Guessing the NM numbers were torque? it looks like the K&N got your 10NM in the BMW and both aftermarket filters got you around 10NM in your turbo car. I had an NA car that gained 13whp with just an intake (no tune)...or about a 5% gain. It was dynoed several times with several configurations and repeatable results. Yes, most intakes don't make sense and most will need a tune to make a pitiful amount of difference. The 13whp was my one hit wonder.
Sometimes changing the airfilter system can even significantly lower your power. Most cars' stock airbox is pretty basic, but pulls fresh air from outside. Cheap "upgrades" often require you to remove that airbox and put a round filter under the hood. This makes you pull in (much) warmer air, since it is now pulling air from next to the engine.
My tip is: generally it is hardly any use to change the airfilter setup, unless the original system is very restrictive. And even if that is the case, sometimes it is better to then slightly modify the stock setup. The airbox in my car had a sort of restrictive pipe inside the airbox. This was easily removed, it was just clipped into place (so I didn't even have to break anything). The only thing I then did was put in a flat K&N airfilter and for less then 40 euro I was done. Not sure how much I gained, probably low single digits in HP and maybe around 10-15 Nm, but the investment was very low and the car feels a more responsive on the throttle, mostly in the lower to mid RPM range. It also sounds a bit nicer, which is a bonus.
bmc or K&N drop in filter your gonna get 1-2% percent better at best the intake sound engine response is deffinitly a bonus if your in to those sought of thingi have brz mt have bmc filter tuned and carback exhuast makes about 15 extra hp combine not a significant bump in power but the car feels great better engine response more race car sound.
Really interesting review, one area that would be nice to see is throttle responses and or turbo spool time. I've felt no more power with mods like these but it "felt" like I had better throttle responses... I wonder whether a neutral rev responses time would be a measure. An overlay of torque figures would have been interested as they did see gain! Either way a very fair test all things considered.
I'll see if i can work out a way to test that properly!