Bench Dog Holes Drilled to Machine Shop accuracy without a CNC
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- Drilling bench dog holes are tedious maybe even boring, but not hard with the Parf Guide Mk2 thesmartwoodshop.com/rons-store
Parf Guide MK2 bit.ly/3evFNgg - Навчання та стиль
Alway living up to the name " Smart Wood Shop". Great job. I have been looking for this system to do my dog holes. My first bench I meticulously measured and drilled the holes with a brace and bit to give me the control to get the holes evenly spaced and bored straight through. As you mentioned, It is a lot of work. As I love my brace and bit drill I do not want to do my entire workbench top by this method.
Thanks again Ron.
My solution to this problem worked very well for me. I used a new Pegboard panel to locate pilot holes with a bit that fit the pegboard holes. I then came back and redrilled the dog holes up to size. No Parf tools required, and every hole was on one inch spacing. The Parf tools may be a marvel for accuracy, but you can't tell me that the pegboard holes are not really VERY accurate as well.. I'm happy with the results. It took a lot of nerve to drill that first hole thru my inch and a half thick beautiful birch panel, for sure. Now, my biggest problem is protecting that beautiful surface. Bench Dogs and other Armor tools and gadgets fit perfectly. It was stories about the Parf tools that motivated me. Simple things are best!
Robert Robinson, i had the same thought on planning mine. Glad it worked out for you and thanks for sharing.
I never completed my system based on the same principles. I wanted to build a cutting station for my track saw and just bought the Parf guide after mistakenly buying a similar jig from WP.
Robert, I like the pegboard idea. Question, after you drilled the pilot holes (with the bit that fit the pegboard holes) , what did you use to then drill the dog holes so they were perfectly centered with your pilot holes? Thanks.
@@befmx31 I used a 3/4 Dia Forstner bit. It followed the pilot holes perfectly. I have two Bench Dog and two rockler Dogs as well as three Armor holdowns, and a half dozen Rockler bench cookies with standoffs that fit these Dog holes perfectly. The bench is 1.5 inch thick birch laying on 3/4 inch Baltic Birch plywood.
THANK YOU.
I love the parf system. I use it for every surface in my workshop, including some jigs I can use in my vise for planing and sharpening.
I haven't predrilled the back like you did though. I'm hitting myself for not even thinking about it. Definitely adding that to all new drills I do with the parf 👍
Taking the time to be precise is always the right move. Great job! Just like we use a hole saw for a hardware hole in a door coming at it from both sides to avoid blowout also the right move.
I'm about to do the parf guide holes on my STS2 build tomorrow, so very timely video. Thanks.
Drilling the assembly holes in the top and bottom at the same time - great time saver!
I am retired and live in the UK and I like to play around doing a few woodworking projects. I have the Parf Guide System Mark 2, which I used to make a top last autumn.
I am now working on making my second top. I use 18 mm MDF, 1220 mm by 610 mm (4' by 2'). So far I have been doing it for about 8 hours over 2 days and have done 3 rows of 20 mm holes, with 3 more to go. It sounds tedious, but for me, there is a sense of achievement in making the tops. When working with MDF you definitely should use the dust extraction system. The second time around, to do the drilling I bought an inexpensive corded drill plus a canister vacuum cleaner, with a power outlet, purchased from a Lidl supermarket in the UK.
I have followed Peter Parfitt's recommendation and drilled 3 mm pilot holes every 48 mm on the outside. These can then be drilled out to 20 mm if required and would probably avoid the corner problem that you mentioned.
I've done this. It is very tedious as you said. They also make a vaccum port for that drilling jig that works well for dust collection. I used it with the bluetooth remote button on my vac hose to produce no dust while drilling a zillion of these holes.
I started on my version of the total station this weekend, building a rolling base for it for my shop.
I have the Parf Guide System too and I approve this message! 😉
I've had the chance to use this table a couple of times now. It's fun to whip out in front of people:) I can see what people are talking about when they say the legs are delicate, but they're design to support a "mostly" vertical load, not be torqued from the side or pushed back into place. If you just let the table open or close on it's own and don't force anything, it works great ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxyFZUPFEey-PuqsPMxqaykBhgA1LWxFHh Once it's set up, it's pretty solid. My only gripe would probably be related to the clamps provided. They're not the highest quality. They do the job, so no big deal, but they could be better. All in all, pretty cool gadget.
Make life easier with the parf guide--go to TSO Products and get a set of the close fit bench dogs and a set of speed knobs. The close fit dogs are super tight like the parf guide dogs and the added hole/speed knob makes it much easier to both push the dogs in as well as pull them out. I built my bench with the mark-1 system and it is super accurate and an absolute joy to work with (the mark-2 was not out at the time)
Yep no doubt about it... drilling holes is definitely boring
I see what you did there
Ron, Thanks for the inspiration. I received my Perf Guide MK2 a couple weeks ago and just can't settle on material. The only quality 12mm I can find in my area (Boise ID) is Baltic Birch but it is heavy. How are you feeling about the birch ply you sourced recently and how many ply does it have?
I really like it and it doesn't seem too heavy.
Hi Ron! I’m really enjoying this little series. I purchased plans for you PCB and, like you, decided the Parf 2 was the way to go. My plan is to use a hoist I mounted in the ceiling of my garage to “store” the bench and allow me to back my pickup under. Did you make the bottom from 1/2” material?
The bench is all 12mm and the horses are 18mm
Ron, I'm about to build my first PTS with dog holes, but I can't justify the cost of the parf guide so i'm planning on using my router to cut the holes. Would you recommend using a boring bit for all of the holes or would it be better to create a template and use a bearing bit to slowly nibble away at each hole?
what type of bit did you use? Upward Spiral bit?
On the corner holes, you just freehand those?
Or you could get a $17 piece of pegboard that’s already machine shop accurate on 1” centers and use it as a template along with a Vix bit... then hang it on the wall for additional tool storage when you’re done
I recently bought a sheet of pegboard, the holes were not accurate. Luckily I used it for a wall mounted tool board, no real accuracy required.
@@jeffhildreth9244
I guess it would be accurate enough for bench dog holes.
Thanks!
@@jeffhildreth9244
Update..
I went to Lowe’s and checked the pegboard they carry and the holes are all exactly 1” on center and square.
I checked several random locations and checked the diagonals on both 4” and 8” and surprisingly they were dead on accurate to the 1/64.
Guess you just need to check your sheet first to make sure it’s good before using as a template
@@cheyneturbyfill4727 It's not that the holes weren't exactly 1" apart.. the lines of the holes were 1/4 " off of the ends and sides ie not squared to the edge.
@ It should be easy enough to rip the edges parallel to the hole patterns.
In the video you mentioned time savings by using the holes and not needing a tape measure. Can you make a video for newbies that want to know the benefits of having the holes on the different table tops (workbench, miter station, etc) and how to use them for different applications to save time
Finished drilling my holes, used a Forstner bit and a homemade template. No blowout, but edges are a little sharp, best way to ease them? Roundover bit in the router, sandpaper, or leave them square/rough?
The Parf chamfer cutting tool. It's the perfect size and angle chamfer if you decide later to get any of the Parf super dogs, etc...
Chamfer but in router, you already have it and it takes no time at all
It's too bad a person couldn't rent that system. Seems a little extreme to build a couple of bench tops. Hundreds of dollars for a jig that will only get used a few times. Not knocking the system, it looks very well made and very accurate, but unless you're making bench tops for a living, it seems a little steep. I guess that tells you a lot about my budget! LOL
I'm absolutely confident that cnc accuracy is entirely unnecessary for clamps.
Proper measurement and good straight and true squares to start with, you can get dog holes as accurate as you’ll ever need without a jig that costs hundreds. A guy who is supposed to be an expert like Ron should know this and teach it instead. Maybe he gets a cut of jig sales?
Darin Netherland Just because it can be done with time and true squares doesn’t make it nearly as easy to use at this tool. I’ve talked to a few people who used it and they LOVE the guide, knowing that they could do their holes without it. Surely have you have 1 or 2 “single purpose” tools in your shop.
I would love to be able to rent one, or group buy for a discount. At this point, I’m trying to find local friends that want to go in on buying one set for us to share.
@@JodyGates you.can make one just as accurate with a couple of pieces of steel/aluminum strap, using the same skills necessary to use the jig. In fact, making one will help you sharpen your skills and likely help you learn to save your money on these gimmicks early on.
Ron, you went with metric dimensions (96mm). Is your shop metric? If not why wouldn't you go with SI units for your workbench? Love your work, made one of your benches, but looking to make a 3 x 6 version and would like to have the capabilities you highlight of having the holes accurately machined. Thanks in advance for your posts and videos and for any input! cheers, -Will
I am an imperial shop, but find that mm works better for accuracy than the 1/16"+/- typical method. Also, base 10 is easier to add and subtract than fractions. Finally, cabinets and cabinet hardware are metric. I find that I work faster and more accurately with fewer errors when using mm. I use a tape measure that has both dimensions to help me translate to metric.
@@TheSmartWoodshop Thank you! Makes me wonder what it would take to convert my whole shop to metric...probably the subject of much debate and a whole 'nother post.... :)
The Part guide system only comes as metric, so if you want to use it, you do so in metric.
Why the hole separation 96mm and not e.g 100mm?
Industry Standard. The 32mm system goes back to WWII when it was determined that 32mm was the closest spacing gears would allow drill bits to be ganged up. All cabinet construction and hardward are 32mm.
How thick is your top? I made one from 3/4” plywood and the holes seem too tight for the dogs. I drilled 20mm holes for 20mm dogs. Is my top too thick....too much friction?
12mm but 18mm is fine as well. It must be your drill bit is not quite 20mm.
I put a micrometer on the bit included in the Parf Guide Mark2 and it is just over 19.8mm. This is why the holes are so tight. I have another 20mm bit that is closer and use that to finish any holes that I drill.
I am not sure as to the size of the actual bit, but commented on Peter Parfit's YT video about his usage of MDF (or Valcromat) for all his MFT style tops made using the Parf guide. I wanted to do several benches using his system, but didn't want the extra weight and water absorption of MDF. His reply was that plywood would yield holes too tight (using same included bit), due to the ply layers. I didn't understand why, but didn't doubt his assessment.
He said that plywood ( I'm going with Poplite for reduced weight) would work, if you took some extra time to touch up the holes with a sandpaper wrapped dowel to give just a little extra slack. Hand fitting each hole would be very tedious but worth it, IMHO.
@@carlbrothers Do you recall the source of your 20mm bit?
@@andrewbieger5004 yes it is the Amana Tool - (203201) 20mm Hinge Boring R/H 57mm .
Ron, do you chamfer the top of the holes?
Yes I chamfer the 20mm holes ua-cam.com/video/pUO8PIbgVY0/v-deo.html Detailing top 26:47 I show this in every build video.
If you have an mft top but it's getting a bit ratty, use it as a template for your new one. Plop it on top of a new sheet of ply, use a good 20mm Forster bit, put it in a drill and a vertical drill guide and just follow along. Piece of cake. I recommend screwing the old one down into the new piece of ply to eliminate any chance of movement. Us lost tite screws to leave small screw hole that can be easily filled.
I agree totally. In fact, I think the best time to make your next MFT top is when the first one is brand new and unspoiled. The one question I have is what is better, a good 20mm Forstner bit and drill guide, or a router pattern bit with top bearing.
Hmm sends like I can do this with a straight edge and two reference measurements. Such as length x width draw The straight likes where they make an xv for the center point of the drill bit. Then use the hole saw
Nice, what wood are you using?
ua-cam.com/video/Q6vqRujjQQg/v-deo.htmlsi=x8v1rg7XzHrhRu9b
Can’t find the parf guide in stock anywhere.
Set up for notification so you can get one sooner. UJK is trying to catch up, but orders are way up. tsoproducts.com/accessories/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system-mark-ii/?aff=3
It’s now back in stock thanks 👍👍👍👍
Try TSO, that's where I got mine.
The only drawback to using the Parf Guide is the cost if only using one time.
where can you rent a Parf guide for 20 bucks?
You will end making more, we all do.
The drawback is that they are in such demand you have to get on a waiting list to get one.
You may make one table now, but you can make more later. You could then rent it out to friends or come drill their tables for them for a fee.
Hi Ron, Bought the plans (very nice and detailed BTW), do you think the Perf Guide MK2 is superior to the WoodPecker ITEM #:HOLE-BORING-JIG-2019-GROUP ?
I don't have any experience with the WoodPecker boring jig, but the Parf Guild looks like it would be more accurate. I don't know how the WP sets up a perfect 90 with the small grid. If WP will loan me one, I will give it a try.
@@TheSmartWoodshop the template has three guide pins (two on one side and one on a second side for alignment, pins are obviously removable). As long as your side are perpendicular your hole grid will be also.
@@johnmatthews7497 I bought and used the woodpecker guide, I sold it off, not accurate, and compounds any errors as you go. When running the router with a 1/2 bit (which is what they recommend) the jig moves ever so slightly as you press the router against the guide. By the time you complete the pattern, it's no longer accurate.
What distance from the edge do you start the first line of holes?
81 mm if you plan on using festoon quick clamps
I haven't checked out your web site, yet. Do your plans come out in non metric ?. please
All plans are both except the latest: The Smart Total Station. From now on all plans are metric only. I find no need for imperial. My shop is imperial based and I find no need for imperial plans. Metric is easier and more accurate to build and works well in an imperial shop.
Ron Paulk
That is a very brave statement! I‘m German, so I grew up with metric and even in my senior year in highschool in Florida I could never figure out the sequence of drills in a stand, far too many fractions that I could not relate to. Granted you could learn the sizes in Chinese if need be, but anybody will understand the decimal system immediately.
@@TheSmartWoodshop
I would prefer that architects and millwork companies use metric but to say metric is more accurate is grossly inaccurate. Metric is easier if you have difficulties adding fractions but it is absolutely not more accurate.
Does one need That many holes in a workbench?
IMO this jig is not worth the money. One can DIY something similar with scrap and with a little patience the same levels of accuracy can be achieved.
I'd heard the jig reference a couple of years ago and looked it up. Thought ver1 was pricey. Thought myself that with care and due diligence you could make your own.
Though because the one you buy would be in metal and not wood .... it won't wear like the wooden one. I can see the expense if you finish carpentry for a living and make / remake bench tops as they wear out. For a DIY'er I agree with you it's darned pricey.
Thought many times myself .... I could hit up the local hardware store for some lengths of aluminium and carefully measure and drill my own 3/4/5 setup, and for a DIY'er .... be close enough.
I think if you do a lot of these, you actually just buy a CNC. If you do very few of these, I don't know that a 200 dollar jig is justified. I don't really see the scale where this makes much sense.
99% of the woodworkers will not benefit from that Parf Guide. You tube has several instructional videos on drilling the holes which I found and used to make my table ,which will give you excellent results . Don’t waist the money.
How you plan to use the holes matters greatly in this. With the precision of the Parf Guide system you not only get clamping capabilities but the ability to use the holes for dogs to hold work and a track saw or saw guide at a perfect 90.
I've found that I don't use any of my holes past the first 2-3 feet from my clamp and for what I do with them, I can place them randomly and it wouldn't matter. $200 might be worth it for someone with different applications though I suppose.