Finally an educated speaker who delves into the living empty vessel that has no redeeming attributes from a clinical perspective. It's so sad that these people suck the life out of their prey and then are able to discard and never look back. The only way to heal and move forward is to know that there is nothing you can do to change their behavior and it is never your fault. You are a faceless subject, a target that has been surveyed for gain. The grieving and beating up of one's self is a waste of time because you never had anything and therefore have nothing to grieve over. There is no loss because it was all a facade! Where we fail as humans is when we allow access. We must learn how to sniff them out to avoid repeat trauma. I've heard, " I will love you with everything I have!" "I' will adore you for all eternity," however if you don't follow the script you are punished! They will never commit! Empty words from an incubus that has no empathy, no boundaries, and is a pathological liar. The worst is the desperation one feels trying to obtain an equal exchange that will never come. You are used on every level, reeled in, then objectified for their sexual appetite and alienated when you challenge them on any level. These individuals are anti social and incapable of sharing. It is the loneliest feeling that can only be described as, "To know you is to know pain." You are merely a target for your material and psychological assets, then controlled. Their end game is destruction! I have always felt as well as read that their behavior was intentional, however I'm not sure they realize what they are doing because they live in their own reality and therefore have no conscious, nor accountability. They have an insatiable appetite for power, however they are lazy and expect everything handed to them. Thank you for explaining this in a way that makes sense!
Perfectly said! However they DO know EXACTLY what they are doing do not be fooled! They know and they don't care to change for the sake of others feelings or wellbeing. Their selfish tactics work for them and that's all that matters!
Thank you Doctor Sam for saying something that I have been ruminating over in my mind but have never articulated. The fact that my soon-to-be ex-husband is not a human being. I have always feared the judgement of others that would come from me trying to explain that after living with him I do NOT feel that he is a human being. Even though truly it is the exact way to describe his interaction with the world and those of us in it with him. I will not get into discussions about soul here, but I firmly believe that he lacks something... some integral coding that the rest of us have and that thing is what makes us humane, i.e. human... whatever that thing is, he does not have it. It's all so very frightening and sad, all at the same time. And conversely an isolating dichotomy for me when discussing our relationship because it seems inhumane for ME to suggest that he isn't human to those who havent experienced his narcissistic abuse.
Are you sure it's not just the lack of deeper forethought that those with narcissism have? I've been thinking of this quote of the prof's, "you have to be stupid to think you can manipulate everyone and everything". Definitely butchered the quote, but don't lose sight of that I guess
@@MM-ej7du nah .. His of lack of forethought was one of the FIRST things I noticed. That and his complete lack of empathy toward his elderly dog. I believe to be human one must be HUMANE. Our humanity isn't really in "what" we are but actually in how we treat the world around us. Narcs aren't the least bit humane. Not even towards themselves. Think about it, if they actually cared for themselves they would maintain healthy relationships with those that love them EVEN IF it was for no other reason than personal advancement and survival. Narcs do the opposite of this. Their self hatred is their motivator ....and at the same time to be denied at all costs. It's crazy making to try and dissect, but whatever that recipe is that allows them to be this way has removed something integral to being human in my experience.
@@TheeCuteness my soon to be ex husband used to make this big show of putting out food for hedgehogs, it was a small cuteness in a sea of total emotional withdrawal and nothingness (devoid of any care that any human experienced including me, he has total disdain for my feelings). When I ended it we've remained in the same house, and he has been mortified by me finding out about who he really is, including unfaithfulness going back at least 4 years. As I separated finances, he won't buy any cat food, as he says cats are mine and therefore no longer feeds his hedgehogs nor gives any care about them when he made such a thing of it. He just used it to gain points. He doesn't care about anything and including himself. His room is vile dirty with bed linen unchanged for months. Praying for him to leave. I have kids so I can't easily leave
They love it that that they don't pay the price.. so true, dear Professor Sam ! Thank you as always for your precious sharing of these aspects ! Francesca
I’ve noticed a pattern in that when you do thoughtful or considerate things they seem to act out passive aggressively a short time later (wtf moments). I questioned if this was just in my mind and became more of an observer with careful attention that I wasn’t creating a self- fulfilling prophecy by anticipating such behaviors. My conclusion- harmony seems to be unbearable for them. You may get at most two weeks of elevation “harmony” if you’re lucky but the roller coaster will rapidly descend.
It was about six months into my marriage when I realized that my husband had a problem with PEACE. The longer there was peace, the more unsettled he would become until finally he would start some kind of drama. The day I pointed this out to him was actually the first time I saw the real him. I looked right into dead and empty eyes that EXPLODED hatred in my direction. He was so angry that I had called out the dysfunction and Insanity of his behavior that he actually left the house for two days. When I realized that those two days he was gone was like a vacation for me, I started plotting my exit. It took me six more months to get everything together to leave and I have not looked back since. I'm not afraid of the narcissist. Thanks to Dr. V. I see them for this sad, empty and shadow filled beings that they are.
I agree and have experienced this myself, time after time. Ironically, everytime I would make a statement to another stating how well our marriage was doing, his drinking was minimal, things were calm and normal....SHIT would hit the fan!!! I know what you mean thinking we are manifesting this craziness. Our divorce should be finalized soon. 😁
@@pisces_chick2511 I totally understand that experience. I have affectionately nicknamed it Charlie Brown and the football. Have you ever seen an old Charlie Brown cartoon? Lucy is always trying to get Charlie to kick a ball that we ALL know as soon as he takes a swing at, she's going to snatch away and make him fall on his head. It's that same exact feeling that you get with a narc. You believe everything is a-ok and we are all on the same page and it's your turn to kick and wham!.....you find yourself flat on your back, head split open...wondering how and why you trusted them to begin with after they've snatched the ball out from under you so many times... We have been thru alot, we narc survivors.
@@-Mitra- I wish you the same. Our strength is innumerable because we have survived the unsurvivable.... we have risen where they fell.. and the strength we now possess gives us the ability to fly. I wish for any person who has survived the narc abuse to do one thing everyday. And that is to Pat yourself on the back for SURVIVING, continuing to love, and coming out the other end still a human being. None of these things could have been accomplished by the person who abused us. We are stronger than we ever thought that we were, but more importantly to me we are stronger than THEY ever thought we were. I was with him for four years. But because he was a trucker it was very easy for him to hide the parts of his personality that he did not want me to see. There was a lot of emotional and mental abuse and grooming during the first two years something I didn't realize until after I left. But yes once we were living together every single day and I saw the real him I couldn't stay. I had no idea about narcissism but I was very lucky that a friend of mine sent me one of Dr V's videos while I was planning my escape. It all fell into place after that. His covert narcissism, his mother's grandiose narcissism and how we're all just extensions of her image. Like the rest of you I'm very grateful for Dr Vaknin. Without his help I probably would have delayed things longer and fell from more of the tricks to return. It wasn't easy which is why I'm proud of all of us.
I have a question for Sam... The last person I was involved with had very strong narcissitic, psychopathic, and sadistic qualities. He also struck me as a person with a diagnosis of asperger's, and actually questioned whether or not he was on the spectrum. He would openly admit to having a desire to cause pain, and having the inability to love. He also admitted that all of what he said regarding romance, and love, was part of "his game," of getting lots from a woman, without giving anything. He would of course follow up with words and actions that reflected his care for me, only to ghost me for the slightest reason. This of course left me confused. My question is: Is it typical for a Narcissist/Saddist to boast or admit their tactics to a person whom they've used them on? Has anyone experienced a Narcissistic individual admitting to their tactics?
Yeah that's usually the M.O. if you have the temerity to call them out. They'll tell you why they are the way they are and pinpoint their narc. injuries as children. Now you are reviled for injuring them again. Take these brags as a warning hiding in plain sight and go while you can.
I thought he was very dumb (total turn-off btw) to boastfully divulge his MO, which he was trying to use on me. I couldn't (and still cant) understand why you would lay your strategy bare in font of your target?! I did, however, derive pleasure by outsmarting him and actually really started liking him and I haven't liked somebody for a long time. So maybe he was not so stupid after all . Notice, I didn't say love .l never loved him .I loved the patchy AF shared fantasy though. We are so similar it's scary and I understand him well, i dont condone, but get it. Even better now thanks to prof. Sam. I could always see through him so easily and his attempts to manipulate /lie to me . He told me he was testing me a few times. So often he laid it out in front of me. I think it was a game. Maybe from my side. Oh , I wanted all of him, wanted to bathe in the depths of his soul . Dangerous , dark., excciting. I could have willingly been everything to him. Mother, whore, lover, security , safety. Best supply he ever had - going into it with eyes wide open (kind of) - I just didnt like the lies, deceit and promiscuity. I laid that bare to him. We were still in the love bombing phase when i broke it off, or maybe it was him going half contact .who cares. Anyway, his loss .he is worthless to me. Can't do life, love or business with him. Can't trust him. I believe you have a choice in how you treat people. Even as a narc. . And you should be able to differentiate between quality grades of supply. I'm on the spectrum myself somewhere, I'm sure, but I choose to treat people well. Love is the mission of my life, with all its deviations - there must be some magic somewhere. Things I ponder.: What happens if you make a shared fantasy reality? Why don't narcs. Get bored living the same cycles over and over again? If you're in your 50s shouldn't you be clever enough to wise up. Evolve ffs! @Prof. Sam ....you're one in a million. Very sexy and evolved 🙃 thank you ! NB: 5 months no contact. We're done. Yet I still dream of a life with him. Maybe it was love after all.
When you spoke of the person who can provide the three S or at least two of the three consistently I know that’s why he keeps coming back to me. He figures out a way to get in again. I knew it was fake this time- the apology the profession of love the profession of change- all fake, all bound by the lines of the fantasy- he only took one week to start withholding sex. I finally broke things off at the month mark. Sex only every 4-5 days with nothing in between, is not enough for someone who “supposedly” loves you, “feels a unique connection”, says “you’re perfect for me”, etc etc. and who formerly showed you that they have a high sexual ability....I’m done for good.
This explains me......Im saving this video esplained my life ....hearing this is like you were in my life and saying my story....it made me laugh ...i know its not funny but learning about NARCISSISM has helped me to finally detach from the madness.....I am now working on me and my issues.
You are absolutely brilliant! You have no idea how much you have helped me to understand ... it's absolutely a terrible experience, even with all this knowledge, but it makes it easier to process. Thank you so much Sam
Thank you 🙏 so much professor Vankin , from the bottom of my heart 🤍 my awakening compassion is growing the more I listening to your most beautiful insights 🌺
I recommended your channel to someone feeling trapped in an abusive relationship with a parent, and received this reply “We tried to watch him, but we have a really hard time thinking of our Father as a person with NPD. Plus he talks about relationships and stuff, like people choosing people with NPD when they are adults. We were children and born of him....so to us that just seems different.” Thought you might be interested.
They must be intellectually challenged to have missed the 90+ videos on my channel that deal with narcissistic parents and their children. groups.google.com/g/narcissistic-personality-disorder/c/kA1vtsqWAiI?pli=1
I’ve been following Johnny Deb’s trial and he sounds like the person you described as providing the three elements of a shared fantasy: rich, romantic and creative. Amber Heard still destroyed her shared fantasy with him and went straight to his yugular. Could her narcissists’ need for depression after a shared fantasy have been her hidden agenda all along? I’m struggling to understand a narcissist’s need for mortification. Is there a sadistic element? How can a human being enjoy causing harm to others who love them? How can self injury be satisfying to a person?
It isn't enjoyable, I think the reason is because we've experienced just the same thing that we do, a lot of us aren't aware of our behaviours or what we're doing but we do become aware eventually
They are stuck in a loop of repetition compulsion that doesn’t end until they die. I took my kids and left when it got violent. I knew he would kill me if I stayed.He stalked me for a year. I finally got a divorce. He went on to become a registered sex offender and commit 4 felonies and sire four more children. He died last year only a few months after my father. I was so relieved he was no longer on Earth.
My ex used suicide as his most favorite way of manipulation. I was expected to stop him every time to "prove my love real."... Everything became a game of real or fake for him.
You mention that NPD's sometimes flee into alcoholism. I (BA, CADC) have worked at a drug and alcohol treatment center for several years. We see a lot of co occurring disorders, such as borderline (mainly female), histrionic, psychotic, schizoaffective, various depressive states, bipolar, PTSD, etc., but not much NPD. I should add that we cater to the high functioning alcoholic/addict, so the prevalence of co occurring NPD/SUD might be different at facilities that cater to low bottom substance abusers. Alternatively, some of the patients might have NPD, but it is masked by a more dominate disorder such as PTSD.
They hide. They pretend like they are victims. In the context of a rehab clinic they are sneakily compliant, and behave as though they have other mental disorders that attribute them the victimhood they seek and feel in that situation. I would wager a very high percentage are misdiagnosed as histrionic/bipolar/schizophrenic because those are the features most prevalent at the time of admission. Also to procure the sympathy from family members... There are just so many benefits! All these other disorders, in the context of rehab invoke sympathy and an affirmation of helplessness = blamelessness. I encourage you to follow up with those people after they've left the clinic.
… “BEING” a Narcissist and/or psychopath IS the punishment. Life long punishment. The empty, soulless existence is more punishment than anything a human could do. Regardless if they can acknowledge it, it’s crystal clear from the outside. It is a sad state
Sam, if you ever find time in one of your future videos, there is an open question on which I was unable to obtain an answer yet: Do Narcissists think that the emotional world of the people around them is just the same as theirs? Do they believe that other people operate in the same way? Do Narcissists realize that they are different?
I am a someone who has experienced multiple partners with some level of narcissistic personality issues. It seems almost as if each relationship I get into my partner is progressively more narcissistic by nature and more sadistic. It's very frustrating for me. I am very self educated on psychology because of my own struggles with mental illness, trying to understand why I do and don't do things to benefit my thrive, and my desire to find relief and healing from my maladaptive behaviours. As an adult I have been diagnosed with PTSD, OCD, GA, SEVERE CYCLICAL DEPRESSION. As a child BIPOLAR DISORDER. If I could use one word to describe my life it would be trauma, 2 trauma and tragedy, 3 add blessings, 4 add adventures. My emotions supercede my wise conscientious mind. Its like I have two selves and when I am hurt, betrayed, shamed , or fear being abandoned by a partner, family member, or a close friend I can feel my emotional other self hi Jack my body and force my wise mind into the passenger seat which says to me "here we go about to lose control and do something stupid which will make her look bad, get into trouble, be counterproductive to the end goal or flat out humiliate hersellf. Whatever it is she's probably going to regret doing it). My wise mind is very developed and self aware. More than most ppl in general healthy minded or not. Which is why I think Ive skated by a proper diagnosis of either CPTSD or more likely BPD(of course I am not a scholar. So, this is based on an under educated assumption. Just to be clear). My emotional mind, which is impulsive, loud, hasty, fearless, temporarily shameless, venomous, hateful, vindictive, calculating, cruel, sadistic rage filled, violent, and protective of my self, ppl I love, and the underdog is exponentially stronger than wise mind is to control it, when it has been activated. I believe that my perpetual symbiotic toxic enmeshment with narcissistic/psychopathic partners has been my Achilles heel in life and I have spent my life as a narcissists appendage and supply to be degenerated, disposed of, regurgitated into the next narcissistic situation less new and less valued by partner and self each and every go around. Which is perplexing to me because it seems with more experience and more knowledge of the topics and subjects that affect my life and choices pervasively and persistently that I have devoted so much of my energy in seeking knowledge to arm myself against and to heal myself from, the worse off I am and more deeply I am engulfed in the destruction of myself within a relationship. Although I am acutely aware of what tell signs to be aware of when sizing up a partner. It is like I am completely vulnerable and magnetically drawn to this situation by my emotional self while my wise self(which I relate as the masculine) is warning and feigning disappointment to my emotional self(the feminine and more persuasive part of me). I would like to expand on what I mean by my emotional self being stronger than my wise minded self. Ultimately my wise minded self is like a sage. He is a magician, a shaman, a wise man who has lived many lifetimes. He doesn't need to be aggressive. He does not need to be the center of attention. He is looking for conflict or fights. He enjoys a healthy debate or an intellectual conversation. He enjoys exploring the depths of my mind. Using my library and outsourcing other archives of knowledge to enrich my own and to philosophize on profound ideas and hypotheses as well as analyze,critique, and problem solve and conclude. He is humble and profound with the inate understanding that he is always a teacher and always a student. Always evolving, growing, and changing. He is not a mother or a father. He will try and guide you, advise you but let you make mistakes and get injured and then will record all the knowledge gained from the mistake and put it in the archives of my conscience whether singular or shared. It gets filed and stored and is vast. His strength is in wisdom and knowledge like a stable and steadfast, infinite strength. It isnt acutely affected in a positive or a negative way so it isn't reactive to situational stimuli. He just stands and observes staying somewhat neutral in action only lending advice. My emotional self is feminine,dualistic, pacifying, overly protective mother enmeshed with temperamental, emotionally irregulated child. The child has to have its way and is narcissistic as a defense mechanism from the severe, complex traumatic injuries i incurred from a multitude of abuse, abandonment, neglect, and loss that I endured in childhood and steadily throughout life to currently. My traumas are many and have persisted throughout my life through many different situations and ppl. The combination of the temper tantrum throwing child and the need of the mother to soothesay the child mixed with the fierce protective instinct of a mother protecting her offspring is the acute abnormal super power that enables my emotional self to hijack and over power my wise self in the moments where I feel I've been hurt, humiliated, abandoned, or I'm protecting a loved one or someone I see being bullied. It is extremely powerful and quickly fleeting strength. Then it collapses back to the abused child and grief stricken mother(empath). Debilitated in a frozen, always hypervigillent and defensive, cerebral cortex mindset.
Hi Sam. If you see this, I have a question (or rather, sequence of them) that I haven't seen discussed anywhere. Apologies if it is too long winded, but I will get to the point eventually after I give some background information first. If you do take the time to answer this, thanks very much in advance, though I understand if it is too long, but I believe you are THE person that may know the best answer to this and I believe you may agree it's not easy to discuss this subject in a brief manner. It is about justice. The uncanny thing is that I was writing this while watching this video and then after I finished you touched on the subject from around 25mins onwards. This is actually the first time I have asked any kind of question publicly or even talked about it, other than with a few people I know. It may also be the last. I'm not sure. I have had therapy consultations and researched thoroughly since it happened to make sense of it all, but have not been outspoken, though I do believe it is a subject that more people need to learn about and be aware of, BEFORE being ruined by it. I always ended up back on your videos, since they seem the most factual and I would prefer not to be misinformed. Maybe I should not even. be writing this on UA-cam, but it may be the way I can get an answer to this. I went through a terrible experience with someone who had every trait of a covert/fragile/vulnerable narcissist. There's literally no other possible explanation for her actions from start to finish. Everything that didn't make sense, suddenly made sense after I had learned all about it. Although this finished over half a year ago, I still realize new, shocking things even to this day that I overlooked at the time. I am also still not fully rid of the entanglements she left behind, though I should be after one more thing is settled. I won't to into detail about what happened further because I'm sure this may already be too long for you to spend time reading already. I'll skip to the present. I am pretty good at remaining neutral in communications by this point, but I am still human, so not perfect in this regard. Aside from dealing with outstanding issues, I have remained out of contact. I only left one email address as the single avenue of communicating those matters, though she tried to push that boundary by contacting me other ways. I did not yield and simply blocked, reminding her that is a boundary push. That email will also be closed off after this one remaining final matter is settled and I fully intend to adhere to that. I have not looked at what she is up to, though well meaning people have come and told me sometimes. I told them they're being used and they quickly realized and agreed, then stopped. I actually don't want to know, so I don't find that part difficult. I am not tempted to look, etc. Though she is watching what I do constantly online. It's quite obvious and I see through it but I suppose I can't do much about someone using fake accounts to watch me. I also get people from her side watching who would surely have no interest in what I'm doing of their own accord. I did tell her I had figured out what she is. I know this was wrong, but I had already done it before I learned it was a futile endeavor. Of course she never admitted a thing, not that, nor any of her actions. She even tried to call me bipolar, which was almost comical because of all the mental issues out there, it's basically the ”polar opposite” (excuse the expression) of what I'm like, so if she had even done 30 seconds of research before accusing me she would've realized that was the least appropriate thing to call me. I guess it was the only mental issue she knew the name of and just threw it out without being concerned with any kind of accuracy. I on the other hand, researched thoroughly for months and exhausted every other possible avenue before coming to the conclusion I did. I actually first began to seek out whether I have the issue, only to discover quite the opposite. On some level I actually wanted to believe that it was my fault rather than accept that she could be this thing I had now discovered exists, but I could not argue with the facts. If I told the story start to finish I doubt anyone aware of the subject could come to any other conclusion. Since I already told her what she is and that I am educated on all the techniques she employs and they will no longer work, I point them out whenever she uses them in emails, etc., and remind her that they won't work. Of course it falls on deaf ears (or rather, blind eyes), but it's my way of not allowing boundaries to be pushed. I am going along with her side of resolving this final issue, even though it is also an entitled boundary push, on the provision that after I have done the final action she wants me to do, she will never attempt to contact me again, in any way, directly or indirectly. Not by sending others. Not by approaching people I know. Nothing. I told her to put this in writing because she cannot be trusted and that's all I ask from my side. Anyway, from what I can gather, I seem to be managing a lot better than some people do. Maybe I'm wrong. Regardless though, I have always felt justice is a big deal, my whole life. This brings me to my point and question. Whatever flaws I may have, there are certain principles I hold important, such as people standing by their word. Without that, what do we have as principles? In fact, I do that to the point it's a bad thing. I stand by what I've said to the bitter end even it causes huge self-suffering and the other person is not doing their part. This is at direct odds with someone who promised everything and turned out to be the complete opposite of what they portrayed. So my point is, this one thing still bothers me and is the one thing I can't let go of. The question of how can someone just do that and get away with it? How can they give their word on so many things, betray it all and just get away with it? I know that is overly idealistic and in reality is they can and she did... But there's always a small part of me that feels, though walking away is the number one solution, how can you just let them get away with it? Right or wrong, I'm just being honest about how I feel. So my question is, what does this mean about me? Is this a normal reaction? I don't have many of the problems others do, I can get over and accept a lot of things, but I just can't accept someone getting away with that and not even owning up to what they did. As foolish as I may now feel to admit it, everything from my side was true and real. I stayed completely in line with what I had said even when I shouldn't have and should've just called it quits. I should've handled it better, been smarter and recognized what I was dealing with earlier, but then again, I was not educated on what I was dealing with. I only learned after it was over and I tried to find out what I had done wrong after being repeatedly told it was my fault, though factually that didn't make any sense. Now I see that what happened is, I unintentionally forced her to have a meltdown by holding up a mirror, that resulted in her running away from accountability for her actions (after secretly setting up another life, whilst still planning the rest of ours), because I consistently pointed out that her actions are the opposite of the image she so aggressively tried to tell and force me to see her as. I wanted to see her as that, but I couldn't because I couldn't ignore facts. This was, at the time, purely because her behaviors didn't make sense and I have a tendency to point out things that don't add up and I had reached the point of letting abusive behaviors go too many times. I had not yet learned what I was truly dealing with. I had always made excuses for her, but I had a limited tolerance for that. I take a lot, but that doesn't mean there's no limit. She mistook my kindness for weakness and my silence for ignorance. What does that make me? That's not my question, but is a side question. I don't know if I have CPTSD, or I'm just a normal upset person, or I would be classified as something else, but in any case, this is what happened. As much as I accept what happened is what it is and it's futile to do anything about it other than walk away, what does it mean that I just cannot let go of the fact that someone simply gets away with it and gets to do it again and again? I'm not talking about revenge. That's the last thing I want. In fact the foolish part of me even sometimes feels sorry for her and wants to help make her face what she is and fix it, but I quickly dismiss that, now that I know better and I am fully aware that there is no way to fix it. I am just talking about people being accountable for what they have done. I know it will never happen, but there's just a part of me that wants her to admit what she did. Never mind even regretting or being sorry. I have no interest in redemption. It's impossible. I could never forgive what was done and have every intention of being permanently cut off, but at least just to admit what she did. I know that will never happen, but if I simply can't let go of that one thing, is this an issue within myself? I would think it's a normal human trait and sense of justice, but what would you say on this matter? How do I get past that? I know it sounds simple, but it is not as easy as it sounds. Is this extreme sense of justice an unhealthy trait? A healthy trait? Neither? Is there something wrong with me, or am I just simply a person who has been wronged and has trouble swallowing that fact? I experienced every single trait and manipulation tactic in the NPD book from her, but this is the one thing I can't seem to get past. It seems though I figured her out, I'm still trying to fully figure out myself... If you end up reaching the end of this message, again, thanks in advance.
@@samvaknin Thank you Sam. Yes, this is what concerns me. I am not actually doing anything to seek justice, I just don't feel like I am able to let it go and get on with my life due to this one point. I want to, but I am just not sure how. Most things I just decide to do, then do, but this doesn't seem that simple. It still bugs me daily.
@@cindyc Thanks. Your summary is extremely accurate. I guess if you look at it this way it should seem more laughable than traumatic. Though I wish it was as easy as just choosing to see it as laughable. On the other hand, it's also kind of sad and pathetic. The last part you said: "Complete denial is the only way she can live with herself." This seems the case too, but sadly not for reasons such as actually feeling guilt and remorse due to empathy. It would seem from what I have learned that this is more out of shame. Being able to live with themselves in terms of not feeling ashamed of looking bad, or accepting they've shameful. I see that as quite different than if it were done out of genuine remorse. I am not sure, but I wonder if that implies deep down at least they know what they've done and that it's unforgivable.
@@cindyc Yes, well I guess these are all things I already know at the end of the day, but maybe have not fully swallowed. Thanks. The last part though, that's the thing, I was actually super careful and at least, in my view, I did not give out trust easily. In fact she always used to have a problem with how careful and slow I was. It wasn't shown in a nasty way at the time though, since this was the idealization phase and we are talking about someone covert / vulnerable / fragile after all. It was just constant questioning as to what's wrong with me? What's wrong with her? Do I hate her? AM I gay (said as a joke, but said A LOT), things like that. I just laughed it off and said nothing's. wrong, this is just how I am and I think adults should do things at a sensible pace in order to be careful. Even far into the relationship I was still getting questioned as to why I don't tell her anything about myself, though I literally couldn't think of things to tell by that point. It was like, what more do you wanna know? Although I think I was somewhat resistant, at the same time though, I was getting "bombed", which I am sure we are all very familiar with, so I guess I should've seen that as something wrong and resisted more. On the other hand, I did kind of think it was overboard, but I just put it down to her being overenthusiastic and in a way nice. I always wanted to think the best. And all of the super-early public, over the top Disney stuff, I just figured "Oh well, it's no harm, she just seems to be really happy, so I guess that's good". It's not really something I have ever been a part of before or been prone to doing, but I figured if that makes her happy, fine. I did often question though whether this was being handled more like a teen relationship than an adult one from her side. I just put that down to immaturity. Well I suppose in a way it is immaturity and in some part the insecurity I was constantly reminded of, but little did I know it was nowhere near that simple. Anyway, on a side note, it is kinda strange to talk to someone that actually understands what I am talking about and has experienced it. I have never been able to up to now. For sure, a few close people I know have been very understanding and great about it, but I sense they don't truly understand how deep it runs. I only had one person tell me "oh but that's normal, all girls are like that", which was a person I quickly distanced myself from! And yes, believe it or not, it was a girl who said that, not a guy! Anyway thanks for your insight, at the end of the day, as unpleasant as it may be, I know how it is and what has to be done. Although she is still finding way to drag it on even over half a year later. I am working on the final cut-off currently.
Hi dr. Vaknin, your insights are perfect. Are those traits/behaviours exclusively narcissistic/psychopathic? In other words, if someone act/feel precisely as you are describing in this video, can we be almost 100% sure, that he's a narcissist/psychopath or it could be something else? Thank you!
Only a qualified mental health diagnostician can determine whether someone suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and this, following lengthy tests and personal interviews. These may be of help - click on the links: vaksam.tripod.com/1.html vaksam.tripod.com/npdglance.html vaksam.tripod.com/faq82.html vaksam.tripod.com/faqpd.html
At least five narcs I know, have commented candidly about how Covid 19 is helping them socially,economically,etc. Meanwhile I'm trying not to throw up in my mouth all the time. I guess my mask would catch it if I lost any. Seriously I see many smiling through this pandemic.
My 1-year relationship with a guy just finished 3 weeks ago. He was asexual (i thought it would be temporary!), thought hugs were ridiculous, and thought of himself as probably a genius (I have to grant him an unusually high IQ part!). Never said I love you, and had a loyalty to a friend which he held above his loyalty to me. He had me drop all my friends (he didn't ask for it but threw a temper tantrum when I interacted with them) of a specific nationality because I had had a boyfriend of such nationality 10 years before. He kept comparing me to his father, who he calls a cockroach, for physically abusing his mother. I had to remove things to make room for his beloved friend's brief stay and called me hypocritical when I told him I wouldn't do it again; that I couldn't be moving things away to make room for other people in the little space we had for our own stuff. I helped him recover money he was owed for 10 years and gave him the company he wanted (and so did i!) daily for a whole year. In the last weeks I was scared to act in one way or another because probably either way would offend him. In the last conversation he reminded me of how I met him and liked him when he was free and called me abusive for wanting to control him...and how i had had "so many men" (2 in 10 years is too many?!) and using him. I didn't respond in a friendly loving way...I couldn't believe what I was hearing, but I still feel guilty thinking perhaps I missed something in showing him love. I question myself if I'm abusive (maybe trying to get him to show me his love was manipulation?) and,, yet, I miss him. Utterly confused. Using my head, I say: weird huh?
I am inspired. I think I’m seeing the situation I am in. You really remind me of my father. Yet you are telling the behind the mask. He is creepy. And he is after me. Destroying my ability to have autonomy. He is after me.
Is it possible for someone with NPD or psychopathy to be a truly devout Christian? Wouldn't that be a counterintuitive lifestyle and way of thinking to someone with these maladaptive personalities? Just curious what your thoughts are?
Sam Vaknin thank you for your reply. I think I understand. When you mention antisocial personality disorder it applies to both psychopathy and narcissism. Is that correct?
Psychopathy is the extreme form of Antisocial Personality Disorder. Currently, it is distinct from NPD. I have been advocating since 1995 to unify all cluster B disorders into a single diagnoses with various emphases and overlays.
Dr Vaknin, I have been watching your videos and try to as much as I can... I'm learning more all the time and yes I feel I am codependant, and I would try to communicate and fix things between me and my ex... I felt like I was his mom at certain times too. This is hard for me to share but I want your opinion and I hope you will respond please. Early in our relationship I felt something was going wrong, he was distant at certain times, rolling over in bed alot with his back towards me, withholding from me sexually. One night I was trying to talk to him with his back at me and I was pleading with him to talk to me and asking him what was wrong, or if there was someone else or why the lack of closeness including sex. He was angered by that and he quickly flipped over on top of me, grabbed my hands and held them to the mattress, looked me in the eyes and said "Is This what u Want!"... he frightened me and at many through our relationship especially when we are distant or had difficulties he would always target me with sex, saying things like I want him to be my eternal sex slave, that all I want him for is sex, even saying childish comments like I'm not a horndog all the time? How do u explain these actions Dr. Vaknin? Any feedback would be appreciated or a subject I could research? Thank u for your videos and understanding, I feel blessed I have u to refer to~
@@samvaknin I probably have the answer and It is what you say, and this video mentions it, dispoiling, degrade, control tactic but more than anything I always thought a sadist, and that smile you talk about... yes I've seen it many times, him and his happy go lucky world, it's all about fun and games, a playmate! Anytime I wanted to talk truth or reality he told me I need to forget that and learn to have fun, wow if that is not avoidant and projection, he hated when there were problems with him... fantasy future faker, I feel so fooled and preyed upon in a terrible fashion, thank u as always and will do my best to watch, listen and comment, there is so much more~
@@samvaknin Thank you for your reply! Your work and videos have helped me understand my narcissist better and answered all the questions that he didn't reply to.
Sam, how can I further explore this concept of the dead mother? Do you elaborate it in any text that is available online? And a curiosity: in choosing the term, was Schiele a reference?
unfortunately, they quote not only this verse from the Bible, there are religious narcs who simply pour quotations from the Bible and consider themselves to be "special called"
This is why i never get leading positions, im not a full fledged narcissist. Im more of a autistic, introverted person. However i have used violence on some narcissistic relatives. Maybe that makes me a psychopath? Either way... How can someone like me reach higher positions and becoming more sociopathic?
These truths heal more than meds
Finally an educated speaker who delves into the living empty vessel that has no redeeming attributes from a clinical perspective. It's so sad that these people suck the life out of their prey and then are able to discard and never look back. The only way to heal and move forward is to know that there is nothing you can do to change their behavior and it is never your fault. You are a faceless subject, a target that has been surveyed for gain. The grieving and beating up of one's self is a waste of time because you never had anything and therefore have nothing to grieve over. There is no loss because it was all a facade! Where we fail as humans is when we allow access. We must learn how to sniff them out to avoid repeat trauma. I've heard, " I will love you with everything I have!" "I' will adore you for all eternity," however if you don't follow the script you are punished! They will never commit! Empty words from an incubus that has no empathy, no boundaries, and is a pathological liar. The worst is the desperation one feels trying to obtain an equal exchange that will never come. You are used on every level, reeled in, then objectified for their sexual appetite and alienated when you challenge them on any level. These individuals are anti social and incapable of sharing. It is the loneliest feeling that can only be described as, "To know you is to know pain." You are merely a target for your material and psychological assets, then controlled. Their end game is destruction! I have always felt as well as read that their behavior was intentional, however I'm not sure they realize what they are doing because they live in their own reality and therefore have no conscious, nor accountability. They have an insatiable appetite for power, however they are lazy and expect everything handed to them. Thank you for explaining this in a way that makes sense!
Perfectly said! However they DO know EXACTLY what they are doing do not be fooled! They know and they don't care to change for the sake of others feelings or wellbeing. Their selfish tactics work for them and that's all that matters!
@@SC-sn3xs You are correct and after reflecting back I see the behavior as premeditated and strategic. It's unhealthy and toxic.
Thank you Doctor Sam for saying something that I have been ruminating over in my mind but have never articulated. The fact that my soon-to-be ex-husband is not a human being. I have always feared the judgement of others that would come from me trying to explain that after living with him I do NOT feel that he is a human being. Even though truly it is the exact way to describe his interaction with the world and those of us in it with him. I will not get into discussions about soul here, but I firmly believe that he lacks something... some integral coding that the rest of us have and that thing is what makes us humane, i.e. human... whatever that thing is, he does not have it.
It's all so very frightening and sad, all at the same time. And conversely an isolating dichotomy for me when discussing our relationship because it seems inhumane for ME to suggest that he isn't human to those who havent experienced his narcissistic abuse.
@Reunite The British Empire ?? Treatment? What do you mean...
It's real to everyone but the narcissist
Are you sure it's not just the lack of deeper forethought that those with narcissism have? I've been thinking of this quote of the prof's, "you have to be stupid to think you can manipulate everyone and everything". Definitely butchered the quote, but don't lose sight of that I guess
@@MM-ej7du nah .. His of lack of forethought was one of the FIRST things I noticed. That and his complete lack of empathy toward his elderly dog. I believe to be human one must be HUMANE. Our humanity isn't really in "what" we are but actually in how we treat the world around us. Narcs aren't the least bit humane. Not even towards themselves.
Think about it, if they actually cared for themselves they would maintain healthy relationships with those that love them EVEN IF it was for no other reason than personal advancement and survival. Narcs do the opposite of this. Their self hatred is their motivator ....and at the same time to be denied at all costs. It's crazy making to try and dissect, but whatever that recipe is that allows them to be this way has removed something integral to being human in my experience.
@@TheeCuteness my soon to be ex husband used to make this big show of putting out food for hedgehogs, it was a small cuteness in a sea of total emotional withdrawal and nothingness (devoid of any care that any human experienced including me, he has total disdain for my feelings). When I ended it we've remained in the same house, and he has been mortified by me finding out about who he really is, including unfaithfulness going back at least 4 years. As I separated finances, he won't buy any cat food, as he says cats are mine and therefore no longer feeds his hedgehogs nor gives any care about them when he made such a thing of it. He just used it to gain points. He doesn't care about anything and including himself. His room is vile dirty with bed linen unchanged for months.
Praying for him to leave. I have kids so I can't easily leave
Then No Contact it is!!!!!
They love it that that they don't pay the price.. so true, dear Professor Sam ! Thank you as always for your precious sharing of these aspects ! Francesca
True true and they are really proud.Some.have some guilts.but then they change their minds...and..They.show off.
I’ve noticed a pattern in that when you do thoughtful or considerate things they seem to act out passive aggressively a short time later (wtf moments). I questioned if this was just in my mind and became more of an observer with careful attention that I wasn’t creating a self- fulfilling prophecy by anticipating such behaviors. My conclusion- harmony seems to be unbearable for them. You may get at most two weeks of elevation “harmony” if you’re lucky but the roller coaster will rapidly descend.
It was about six months into my marriage when I realized that my husband had a problem with PEACE. The longer there was peace, the more unsettled he would become until finally he would start some kind of drama.
The day I pointed this out to him was actually the first time I saw the real him. I looked right into dead and empty eyes that EXPLODED hatred in my direction. He was so angry that I had called out the dysfunction and Insanity of his behavior that he actually left the house for two days. When I realized that those two days he was gone was like a vacation for me, I started plotting my exit. It took me six more months to get everything together to leave and I have not looked back since. I'm not afraid of the narcissist. Thanks to Dr. V. I see them for this sad, empty and shadow filled beings that they are.
I agree and have experienced this myself, time after time. Ironically, everytime I would make a statement to another stating how well our marriage was doing, his drinking was minimal, things were calm and normal....SHIT would hit the fan!!! I know what you mean thinking we are manifesting this craziness. Our divorce should be finalized soon. 😁
@@pisces_chick2511 I totally understand that experience. I have affectionately nicknamed it Charlie Brown and the football. Have you ever seen an old Charlie Brown cartoon? Lucy is always trying to get Charlie to kick a ball that we ALL know as soon as he takes a swing at, she's going to snatch away and make him fall on his head. It's that same exact feeling that you get with a narc. You believe everything is a-ok and we are all on the same page and it's your turn to kick and wham!.....you find yourself flat on your back, head split open...wondering how and why you trusted them to begin with after they've snatched the ball out from under you so many times... We have been thru alot, we narc survivors.
@@-Mitra- I wish you the same. Our strength is innumerable because we have survived the unsurvivable.... we have risen where they fell.. and the strength we now possess gives us the ability to fly. I wish for any person who has survived the narc abuse to do one thing everyday. And that is to Pat yourself on the back for SURVIVING, continuing to love, and coming out the other end still a human being. None of these things could have been accomplished by the person who abused us. We are stronger than we ever thought that we were, but more importantly to me we are stronger than THEY ever thought we were. I was with him for four years. But because he was a trucker it was very easy for him to hide the parts of his personality that he did not want me to see. There was a lot of emotional and mental abuse and grooming during the first two years something I didn't realize until after I left. But yes once we were living together every single day and I saw the real him I couldn't stay. I had no idea about narcissism but I was very lucky that a friend of mine sent me one of Dr V's videos while I was planning my escape. It all fell into place after that. His covert narcissism, his mother's grandiose narcissism and how we're all just extensions of her image. Like the rest of you I'm very grateful for Dr Vaknin. Without his help I probably would have delayed things longer and fell from more of the tricks to return. It wasn't easy which is why I'm proud of all of us.
Once you see a pattern .....It cannot be unseen!!!!
I have learned so much about the narcissist I am with from listening to your lectures. Thank you so much!❤
I have a question for Sam...
The last person I was involved with had very strong narcissitic, psychopathic, and sadistic qualities. He also struck me as a person with a diagnosis of asperger's, and actually questioned whether or not he was on the spectrum. He would openly admit to having a desire to cause pain, and having the inability to love. He also admitted that all of what he said regarding romance, and love, was part of "his game," of getting lots from a woman, without giving anything. He would of course follow up with words and actions that reflected his care for me, only to ghost me for the slightest reason. This of course left me confused. My question is: Is it typical for a Narcissist/Saddist to boast or admit their tactics to a person whom they've used them on?
Has anyone experienced a Narcissistic individual admitting to their tactics?
Boasting and bragging is the rule rather than the exception.
@@terrih4324 he was trying to turn you into the "dead mother" and that is so sad.
Yeah that's usually the M.O. if you have the temerity to call them out. They'll tell you why they are the way they are and pinpoint their narc. injuries as children. Now you are reviled for injuring them again. Take these brags as a warning hiding in plain sight and go while you can.
I thought he was very dumb (total turn-off btw) to boastfully divulge his MO, which he was trying to use on me. I couldn't (and still cant) understand why you would lay your strategy bare in font of your target?! I did, however, derive pleasure by outsmarting him and actually really started liking him and I haven't liked somebody for a long time. So maybe he was not so stupid after all . Notice, I didn't say love .l never loved him .I loved the patchy AF shared fantasy though. We are so similar it's scary and I understand him well, i dont condone, but get it. Even better now thanks to prof. Sam. I could always see through him so easily and his attempts to manipulate /lie to me . He told me he was testing me a few times. So often he laid it out in front of me. I think it was a game. Maybe from my side. Oh , I wanted all of him, wanted to bathe in the depths of his soul . Dangerous , dark., excciting. I could have willingly been everything to him. Mother, whore, lover, security , safety. Best supply he ever had - going into it with eyes wide open (kind of) - I just didnt like the lies, deceit and promiscuity. I laid that bare to him. We were still in the love bombing phase when i broke it off, or maybe it was him going half contact .who cares. Anyway, his loss .he is worthless to me. Can't do life, love or business with him. Can't trust him. I believe you have a choice in how you treat people. Even as a narc. . And you should be able to differentiate between quality grades of supply. I'm on the spectrum myself somewhere, I'm sure, but I choose to treat people well. Love is the mission of my life, with all its deviations - there must be some magic somewhere.
Things I ponder.: What happens if you make a shared fantasy reality?
Why don't narcs. Get bored living the same cycles over and over again?
If you're in your 50s shouldn't you be clever enough to wise up. Evolve ffs!
@Prof. Sam ....you're one in a million. Very sexy and evolved 🙃 thank you !
NB: 5 months no contact. We're done. Yet I still dream of a life with him. Maybe it was love after all.
@@tahea7988it wasn't
Very deep insights. The deepest of what has been written or spoken on the topic so far. Thank you!
I think their existence alone, the constant anxiety and depressive state is punishment enough for them. They are very miserable creatures 😢
When you spoke of the person who can provide the three S or at least two of the three consistently I know that’s why he keeps coming back to me. He figures out a way to get in again. I knew it was fake this time- the apology the profession of love the profession of change- all fake, all bound by the lines of the fantasy- he only took one week to start withholding sex. I finally broke things off at the month mark. Sex only every 4-5 days with nothing in between, is not enough for someone who “supposedly” loves you, “feels a unique connection”, says “you’re perfect for me”, etc etc. and who formerly showed you that they have a high sexual ability....I’m done for good.
Ugh this resonates so completely. Good for you!!
Thank you for helping all of us to understand why we have to completely let go even if he comes back let him go
Painfully true Sam .... thank you
You’ve become like an older wise brother beside a colleague to me.
This explains me......Im saving this video esplained my life ....hearing this is like you were in my life and saying my story....it made me laugh ...i know its not funny but learning about NARCISSISM has helped me to finally detach from the madness.....I am now working on me and my issues.
Same here :)
@@007lutherking work on yourself in private, trust me.
You are absolutely brilliant! You have no idea how much you have helped me to understand ... it's absolutely a terrible experience, even with all this knowledge, but it makes it easier to process. Thank you so much Sam
Always have a way with words that makes me cry laughing - thank you Sam
You do a amazing jobs explaing in words that many cant after experiencing them even in the working field.
Holy Shit! I'm his smothering triangulating mother and his disapproving incompassionate father! All in one! Mind blown!
Thank you 🙏 so much professor Vankin , from the bottom of my heart 🤍 my awakening compassion is growing the more I listening to your most beautiful insights 🌺
Excuses for writing professor Vaknin name wrongly 🌺
Swipe Right is Always The Best Way!
I recommended your channel to someone feeling trapped in an abusive relationship with a parent, and received this reply “We tried to watch him, but we have a really hard time thinking of our Father as a person with NPD. Plus he talks about relationships and stuff, like people choosing people with NPD when they are adults. We were children and born of him....so to us that just seems different.”
Thought you might be interested.
They must be intellectually challenged to have missed the 90+ videos on my channel that deal with narcissistic parents and their children. groups.google.com/g/narcissistic-personality-disorder/c/kA1vtsqWAiI?pli=1
It’s all your fault for being so prolific ;)
Thanks for the list!
I’ve been following Johnny Deb’s trial and he sounds like the person you described as providing the three elements of a shared fantasy: rich, romantic and creative. Amber Heard still destroyed her shared fantasy with him and went straight to his yugular. Could her narcissists’ need for depression after a shared fantasy have been her hidden agenda all along? I’m struggling to understand a narcissist’s need for mortification. Is there a sadistic element? How can a human being enjoy causing harm to others who love them? How can self injury be satisfying to a person?
l
It isn't enjoyable, I think the reason is because we've experienced just the same thing that we do, a lot of us aren't aware of our behaviours or what we're doing but we do become aware eventually
Projection in other words, I think that is the main point of narcissism.
Narcissism is parasitic, that is my understanding of it. I wish i didn't exist.
They are stuck in a loop of repetition compulsion that doesn’t end until they die. I took my kids and left when it got violent. I knew he would kill me if I stayed.He stalked me for a year. I finally got a divorce. He went on to become a registered sex offender and commit 4 felonies and sire four more children. He died last year only a few months after my father. I was so relieved he was no longer on Earth.
Would a narcissist who finally recognises patterns of their behaviours be suicidal?
Mortification can lead to suicidal ideation but rarely to suicide.
My ex used suicide as his most favorite way of manipulation. I was expected to stop him every time to "prove my love real."... Everything became a game of real or fake for him.
@@christenmabel6011 my first ex. ugh.
You mention that NPD's sometimes flee into alcoholism. I (BA, CADC) have worked at a drug and alcohol treatment center for several years. We see a lot of co occurring disorders, such as borderline (mainly female), histrionic, psychotic, schizoaffective, various depressive states, bipolar, PTSD, etc., but not much NPD.
I should add that we cater to the high functioning alcoholic/addict, so the prevalence of co occurring NPD/SUD might be different at facilities that cater to low bottom substance abusers. Alternatively, some of the patients might have NPD, but it is masked by a more dominate disorder such as PTSD.
They hide. They pretend like they are victims. In the context of a rehab clinic they are sneakily compliant, and behave as though they have other mental disorders that attribute them the victimhood they seek and feel in that situation. I would wager a very high percentage are misdiagnosed as histrionic/bipolar/schizophrenic because those are the features most prevalent at the time of admission. Also to procure the sympathy from family members... There are just so many benefits! All these other disorders, in the context of rehab invoke sympathy and an affirmation of helplessness = blamelessness. I encourage you to follow up with those people after they've left the clinic.
The "mousetrap"!!!! unbelievable paradigm 🐀 😬
… “BEING” a Narcissist and/or psychopath IS the punishment. Life long punishment. The empty, soulless existence is more punishment than anything a human could do. Regardless if they can acknowledge it, it’s crystal clear from the outside. It is a sad state
This world will never understand itself.
Religiously document enablers' wrongdoings then expose/prosecute/abandon. Ruin supply.
Sam, if you ever find time in one of your future videos, there is an open question on which I was unable to obtain an answer yet: Do Narcissists think that the emotional world of the people around them is just the same as theirs? Do they believe that other people operate in the same way? Do Narcissists realize that they are different?
I answered the very same question in one of the comments.
I am a someone who has experienced multiple partners with some level of narcissistic personality issues. It seems almost as if each relationship I get into my partner is progressively more narcissistic by nature and more sadistic. It's very frustrating for me. I am very self educated on psychology because of my own struggles with mental illness, trying to understand why I do and don't do things to benefit my thrive, and my desire to find relief and healing from my maladaptive behaviours. As an adult I have been diagnosed with PTSD, OCD, GA, SEVERE CYCLICAL DEPRESSION. As a child BIPOLAR DISORDER. If I could use one word to describe my life it would be trauma, 2 trauma and tragedy, 3 add blessings, 4 add adventures. My emotions supercede my wise conscientious mind. Its like I have two selves and when I am hurt, betrayed, shamed , or fear being abandoned by a partner, family member, or a close friend I can feel my emotional other self hi Jack my body and force my wise mind into the passenger seat which says to me "here we go about to lose control and do something stupid which will make her look bad, get into trouble, be counterproductive to the end goal or flat out humiliate hersellf. Whatever it is she's probably going to regret doing it). My wise mind is very developed and self aware. More than most ppl in general healthy minded or not. Which is why I think Ive skated by a proper diagnosis of either CPTSD or more likely BPD(of course I am not a scholar. So, this is based on an under educated assumption. Just to be clear).
My emotional mind, which is impulsive, loud, hasty, fearless, temporarily shameless, venomous, hateful, vindictive, calculating, cruel, sadistic rage filled, violent, and protective of my self, ppl I love, and the underdog is exponentially stronger than wise mind is to control it, when it has been activated. I believe that my perpetual symbiotic toxic enmeshment with narcissistic/psychopathic partners has been my Achilles heel in life and I have spent my life as a narcissists appendage and supply to be degenerated, disposed of, regurgitated into the next narcissistic situation less new and less valued by partner and self each and every go around. Which is perplexing to me because it seems with more experience and more knowledge of the topics and subjects that affect my life and choices pervasively and persistently that I have devoted so much of my energy in seeking knowledge to arm myself against and to heal myself from, the worse off I am and more deeply I am engulfed in the destruction of myself within a relationship. Although I am acutely aware of what tell signs to be aware of when sizing up a partner. It is like I am completely vulnerable and magnetically drawn to this situation by my emotional self while my wise self(which I relate as the masculine) is warning and feigning disappointment to my emotional self(the feminine and more persuasive part of me).
I would like to expand on what I mean by my emotional self being stronger than my wise minded self. Ultimately my wise minded self is like a sage. He is a magician, a shaman, a wise man who has lived many lifetimes. He doesn't need to be aggressive. He does not need to be the center of attention. He is looking for conflict or fights. He enjoys a healthy debate or an intellectual conversation. He enjoys exploring the depths of my mind. Using my library and outsourcing other archives of knowledge to enrich my own and to philosophize on profound ideas and hypotheses as well as analyze,critique, and problem solve and conclude. He is humble and profound with the inate understanding that he is always a teacher and always a student. Always evolving, growing, and changing. He is not a mother or a father. He will try and guide you, advise you but let you make mistakes and get injured and then will record all the knowledge gained from the mistake and put it in the archives of my conscience whether singular or shared. It gets filed and stored and is vast. His strength is in wisdom and knowledge like a stable and steadfast, infinite strength. It isnt acutely affected in a positive or a negative way so it isn't reactive to situational stimuli. He just stands and observes staying somewhat neutral in action only lending advice.
My emotional self is feminine,dualistic, pacifying, overly protective mother enmeshed with temperamental, emotionally irregulated child. The child has to have its way and is narcissistic as a defense mechanism from the severe, complex traumatic injuries i incurred from a multitude of abuse, abandonment, neglect, and loss that I endured in childhood and steadily throughout life to currently. My traumas are many and have persisted throughout my life through many different situations and ppl. The combination of the temper tantrum throwing child and the need of the mother to soothesay the child mixed with the fierce protective instinct of a mother protecting her offspring is the acute abnormal super power that enables my emotional self to hijack and over power my wise self in the moments where I feel I've been hurt, humiliated, abandoned, or I'm protecting a loved one or someone I see being bullied. It is extremely powerful and quickly fleeting strength. Then it collapses back to the abused child and grief stricken mother(empath). Debilitated in a frozen, always hypervigillent and defensive, cerebral cortex mindset.
Thank you very much, Sam
Hi Sam. If you see this, I have a question (or rather, sequence of them) that I haven't seen discussed anywhere.
Apologies if it is too long winded, but I will get to the point eventually after I give some background information first.
If you do take the time to answer this, thanks very much in advance, though I understand if it is too long, but I believe you are THE person that may know the best answer to this and I believe you may agree it's not easy to discuss this subject in a brief manner.
It is about justice. The uncanny thing is that I was writing this while watching this video and then after I finished you touched on the subject from around 25mins onwards.
This is actually the first time I have asked any kind of question publicly or even talked about it, other than with a few people I know. It may also be the last. I'm not sure. I have had therapy consultations and researched thoroughly since it happened to make sense of it all, but have not been outspoken, though I do believe it is a subject that more people need to learn about and be aware of, BEFORE being ruined by it. I always ended up back on your videos, since they seem the most factual and I would prefer not to be misinformed. Maybe I should not even. be writing this on UA-cam, but it may be the way I can get an answer to this.
I went through a terrible experience with someone who had every trait of a covert/fragile/vulnerable narcissist. There's literally no other possible explanation for her actions from start to finish. Everything that didn't make sense, suddenly made sense after I had learned all about it.
Although this finished over half a year ago, I still realize new, shocking things even to this day that I overlooked at the time. I am also still not fully rid of the entanglements she left behind, though I should be after one more thing is settled.
I won't to into detail about what happened further because I'm sure this may already be too long for you to spend time reading already. I'll skip to the present.
I am pretty good at remaining neutral in communications by this point, but I am still human, so not perfect in this regard. Aside from dealing with outstanding issues, I have remained out of contact. I only left one email address as the single avenue of communicating those matters, though she tried to push that boundary by contacting me other ways. I did not yield and simply blocked, reminding her that is a boundary push. That email will also be closed off after this one remaining final matter is settled and I fully intend to adhere to that.
I have not looked at what she is up to, though well meaning people have come and told me sometimes. I told them they're being used and they quickly realized and agreed, then stopped. I actually don't want to know, so I don't find that part difficult. I am not tempted to look, etc. Though she is watching what I do constantly online. It's quite obvious and I see through it but I suppose I can't do much about someone using fake accounts to watch me. I also get people from her side watching who would surely have no interest in what I'm doing of their own accord.
I did tell her I had figured out what she is. I know this was wrong, but I had already done it before I learned it was a futile endeavor. Of course she never admitted a thing, not that, nor any of her actions. She even tried to call me bipolar, which was almost comical because of all the mental issues out there, it's basically the ”polar opposite” (excuse the expression) of what I'm like, so if she had even done 30 seconds of research before accusing me she would've realized that was the least appropriate thing to call me. I guess it was the only mental issue she knew the name of and just threw it out without being concerned with any kind of accuracy. I on the other hand, researched thoroughly for months and exhausted every other possible avenue before coming to the conclusion I did. I actually first began to seek out whether I have the issue, only to discover quite the opposite. On some level I actually wanted to believe that it was my fault rather than accept that she could be this thing I had now discovered exists, but I could not argue with the facts. If I told the story start to finish I doubt anyone aware of the subject could come to any other conclusion.
Since I already told her what she is and that I am educated on all the techniques she employs and they will no longer work, I point them out whenever she uses them in emails, etc., and remind her that they won't work. Of course it falls on deaf ears (or rather, blind eyes), but it's my way of not allowing boundaries to be pushed.
I am going along with her side of resolving this final issue, even though it is also an entitled boundary push, on the provision that after I have done the final action she wants me to do, she will never attempt to contact me again, in any way, directly or indirectly. Not by sending others. Not by approaching people I know. Nothing. I told her to put this in writing because she cannot be trusted and that's all I ask from my side.
Anyway, from what I can gather, I seem to be managing a lot better than some people do. Maybe I'm wrong.
Regardless though, I have always felt justice is a big deal, my whole life. This brings me to my point and question. Whatever flaws I may have, there are certain principles I hold important, such as people standing by their word. Without that, what do we have as principles? In fact, I do that to the point it's a bad thing. I stand by what I've said to the bitter end even it causes huge self-suffering and the other person is not doing their part. This is at direct odds with someone who promised everything and turned out to be the complete opposite of what they portrayed.
So my point is, this one thing still bothers me and is the one thing I can't let go of. The question of how can someone just do that and get away with it? How can they give their word on so many things, betray it all and just get away with it? I know that is overly idealistic and in reality is they can and she did... But there's always a small part of me that feels, though walking away is the number one solution, how can you just let them get away with it?
Right or wrong, I'm just being honest about how I feel.
So my question is, what does this mean about me? Is this a normal reaction? I don't have many of the problems others do, I can get over and accept a lot of things, but I just can't accept someone getting away with that and not even owning up to what they did.
As foolish as I may now feel to admit it, everything from my side was true and real. I stayed completely in line with what I had said even when I shouldn't have and should've just called it quits. I should've handled it better, been smarter and recognized what I was dealing with earlier, but then again, I was not educated on what I was dealing with. I only learned after it was over and I tried to find out what I had done wrong after being repeatedly told it was my fault, though factually that didn't make any sense.
Now I see that what happened is, I unintentionally forced her to have a meltdown by holding up a mirror, that resulted in her running away from accountability for her actions (after secretly setting up another life, whilst still planning the rest of ours), because I consistently pointed out that her actions are the opposite of the image she so aggressively tried to tell and force me to see her as. I wanted to see her as that, but I couldn't because I couldn't ignore facts. This was, at the time, purely because her behaviors didn't make sense and I have a tendency to point out things that don't add up and I had reached the point of letting abusive behaviors go too many times. I had not yet learned what I was truly dealing with. I had always made excuses for her, but I had a limited tolerance for that. I take a lot, but that doesn't mean there's no limit. She mistook my kindness for weakness and my silence for ignorance. What does that make me? That's not my question, but is a side question. I don't know if I have CPTSD, or I'm just a normal upset person, or I would be classified as something else, but in any case, this is what happened.
As much as I accept what happened is what it is and it's futile to do anything about it other than walk away, what does it mean that I just cannot let go of the fact that someone simply gets away with it and gets to do it again and again? I'm not talking about revenge. That's the last thing I want. In fact the foolish part of me even sometimes feels sorry for her and wants to help make her face what she is and fix it, but I quickly dismiss that, now that I know better and I am fully aware that there is no way to fix it.
I am just talking about people being accountable for what they have done.
I know it will never happen, but there's just a part of me that wants her to admit what she did. Never mind even regretting or being sorry. I have no interest in redemption. It's impossible. I could never forgive what was done and have every intention of being permanently cut off, but at least just to admit what she did.
I know that will never happen, but if I simply can't let go of that one thing, is this an issue within myself? I would think it's a normal human trait and sense of justice, but what would you say on this matter? How do I get past that? I know it sounds simple, but it is not as easy as it sounds.
Is this extreme sense of justice an unhealthy trait? A healthy trait? Neither? Is there something wrong with me, or am I just simply a person who has been wronged and has trouble swallowing that fact? I experienced every single trait and manipulation tactic in the NPD book from her, but this is the one thing I can't seem to get past.
It seems though I figured her out, I'm still trying to fully figure out myself...
If you end up reaching the end of this message, again, thanks in advance.
There is a fine line between ruminative obsession and seeking justice.
@@samvaknin Thank you Sam. Yes, this is what concerns me. I am not actually doing anything to seek justice, I just don't feel like I am able to let it go and get on with my life due to this one point. I want to, but I am just not sure how. Most things I just decide to do, then do, but this doesn't seem that simple. It still bugs me daily.
@@cindyc Thanks. Your summary is extremely accurate. I guess if you look at it this way it should seem more laughable than traumatic. Though I wish it was as easy as just choosing to see it as laughable. On the other hand, it's also kind of sad and pathetic.
The last part you said: "Complete denial is the only way she can live with herself."
This seems the case too, but sadly not for reasons such as actually feeling guilt and remorse due to empathy. It would seem from what I have learned that this is more out of shame. Being able to live with themselves in terms of not feeling ashamed of looking bad, or accepting they've shameful. I see that as quite different than if it were done out of genuine remorse. I am not sure, but I wonder if that implies deep down at least they know what they've done and that it's unforgivable.
@@cindyc I suppose this is precisely why I find it to be an empty version of "knowing".
@@cindyc Yes, well I guess these are all things I already know at the end of the day, but maybe have not fully swallowed. Thanks.
The last part though, that's the thing, I was actually super careful and at least, in my view, I did not give out trust easily. In fact she always used to have a problem with how careful and slow I was. It wasn't shown in a nasty way at the time though, since this was the idealization phase and we are talking about someone covert / vulnerable / fragile after all. It was just constant questioning as to what's wrong with me? What's wrong with her? Do I hate her? AM I gay (said as a joke, but said A LOT), things like that. I just laughed it off and said nothing's. wrong, this is just how I am and I think adults should do things at a sensible pace in order to be careful. Even far into the relationship I was still getting questioned as to why I don't tell her anything about myself, though I literally couldn't think of things to tell by that point. It was like, what more do you wanna know?
Although I think I was somewhat resistant, at the same time though, I was getting "bombed", which I am sure we are all very familiar with, so I guess I should've seen that as something wrong and resisted more. On the other hand, I did kind of think it was overboard, but I just put it down to her being overenthusiastic and in a way nice. I always wanted to think the best. And all of the super-early public, over the top Disney stuff, I just figured "Oh well, it's no harm, she just seems to be really happy, so I guess that's good". It's not really something I have ever been a part of before or been prone to doing, but I figured if that makes her happy, fine.
I did often question though whether this was being handled more like a teen relationship than an adult one from her side. I just put that down to immaturity. Well I suppose in a way it is immaturity and in some part the insecurity I was constantly reminded of, but little did I know it was nowhere near that simple.
Anyway, on a side note, it is kinda strange to talk to someone that actually understands what I am talking about and has experienced it. I have never been able to up to now. For sure, a few close people I know have been very understanding and great about it, but I sense they don't truly understand how deep it runs.
I only had one person tell me "oh but that's normal, all girls are like that", which was a person I quickly distanced myself from! And yes, believe it or not, it was a girl who said that, not a guy!
Anyway thanks for your insight, at the end of the day, as unpleasant as it may be, I know how it is and what has to be done. Although she is still finding way to drag it on even over half a year later. I am working on the final cut-off currently.
Hi dr. Vaknin, your insights are perfect. Are those traits/behaviours exclusively narcissistic/psychopathic? In other words, if someone act/feel precisely as you are describing in this video, can we be almost 100% sure, that he's a narcissist/psychopath or it could be something else? Thank you!
Only a qualified mental health diagnostician can determine whether someone suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and this, following lengthy tests and personal interviews.
These may be of help - click on the links:
vaksam.tripod.com/1.html
vaksam.tripod.com/npdglance.html
vaksam.tripod.com/faq82.html
vaksam.tripod.com/faqpd.html
@@samvaknin thank you, i've read all of your material 😊 i'm asking for myself, that's why i double check 🤔
At least five narcs I know, have commented candidly about how Covid 19 is helping them socially,economically,etc. Meanwhile I'm trying not to throw up in my mouth all the time. I guess my mask would catch it if I lost any. Seriously I see many smiling through this pandemic.
Wowww .. very true. Watch too much movie . Shower a lot
That eyebrow intro. Gotta love it! xD
My 1-year relationship with a guy just finished 3 weeks ago. He was asexual (i thought it would be temporary!), thought hugs were ridiculous, and thought of himself as probably a genius (I have to grant him an unusually high IQ part!). Never said I love you, and had a loyalty to a friend which he held above his loyalty to me. He had me drop all my friends (he didn't ask for it but threw a temper tantrum when I interacted with them) of a specific nationality because I had had a boyfriend of such nationality 10 years before. He kept comparing me to his father, who he calls a cockroach, for physically abusing his mother. I had to remove things to make room for his beloved friend's brief stay and called me hypocritical when I told him I wouldn't do it again; that I couldn't be moving things away to make room for other people in the little space we had for our own stuff. I helped him recover money he was owed for 10 years and gave him the company he wanted (and so did i!) daily for a whole year. In the last weeks I was scared to act in one way or another because probably either way would offend him. In the last conversation he reminded me of how I met him and liked him when he was free and called me abusive for wanting to control him...and how i had had "so many men" (2 in 10 years is too many?!) and using him. I didn't respond in a friendly loving way...I couldn't believe what I was hearing, but I still feel guilty thinking perhaps I missed something in showing him love. I question myself if I'm abusive (maybe trying to get him to show me his love was manipulation?) and,, yet, I miss him. Utterly confused. Using my head, I say: weird huh?
I am in the same place , such horrible feeling.
1 year isn't long enough to really a know someone. I've spent 10 and still didn't know
Question: can a narcissist go from the interstitial phase to the shared fantasy again?
Yes.
I am inspired. I think I’m seeing the situation I am in. You really remind me of my father. Yet you are telling the behind the mask. He is creepy. And he is after me. Destroying my ability to have autonomy. He is after me.
Is it possible for someone with NPD or psychopathy to be a truly devout Christian? Wouldn't that be a counterintuitive lifestyle and way of thinking to someone with these maladaptive personalities? Just curious what your thoughts are?
Just curious why you do not search my channel.
Doctor, how does a Narcissist behave when he finds you too strong to control ?
Good question
I like your lecture. You are very pro . evidence base only
Thank you for all your incredible insight. Where does a sociopath fall in your studies? Is he/she considered a narcissist?
He is not considered at all. Like “empath”, “sociopath” is sheer media hype, not a clinical diagnostic entity. In short: bollocks.
Sam Vaknin thank you for your reply. I think I understand. When you mention antisocial personality disorder it applies to both psychopathy and narcissism. Is that correct?
Psychopathy is the extreme form of Antisocial Personality Disorder. Currently, it is distinct from NPD. I have been advocating since 1995 to unify all cluster B disorders into a single diagnoses with various emphases and overlays.
Sam Vaknin thank you very much. This now makes so much sense.
2 weeks same here...
Thank you
Dr Vaknin, I have been watching your videos and try to as much as I can... I'm learning more all the time and yes I feel I am codependant, and I would try to communicate and fix things between me and my ex... I felt like I was his mom at certain times too. This is hard for me to share but I want your opinion and I hope you will respond please. Early in our relationship I felt something was going wrong, he was distant at certain times, rolling over in bed alot with his back towards me, withholding from me sexually. One night I was trying to talk to him with his back at me and I was pleading with him to talk to me and asking him what was wrong, or if there was someone else or why the lack of closeness including sex. He was angered by that and he quickly flipped over on top of me, grabbed my hands and held them to the mattress, looked me in the eyes and said "Is This what u Want!"... he frightened me and at many through our relationship especially when we are distant or had difficulties he would always target me with sex, saying things like I want him to be my eternal sex slave, that all I want him for is sex, even saying childish comments like I'm not a horndog all the time? How do u explain these actions Dr. Vaknin? Any feedback would be appreciated or a subject I could research? Thank u for your videos and understanding, I feel blessed I have u to refer to~
You may wish to watch the well over 100 videos on the narcissist's sexuality on this channel (there is a playlist).
@@samvaknin I probably have the answer and It is what you say, and this video mentions it, dispoiling, degrade, control tactic but more than anything I always thought a sadist, and that smile you talk about... yes I've seen it many times, him and his happy go lucky world, it's all about fun and games, a playmate! Anytime I wanted to talk truth or reality he told me I need to forget that and learn to have fun, wow if that is not avoidant and projection, he hated when there were problems with him... fantasy future faker, I feel so fooled and preyed upon in a terrible fashion, thank u as always and will do my best to watch, listen and comment, there is so much more~
How long does mortification last? Or is it permanent?
It is temporary. The narcissist recovers his grandiosity and reactivates his false self.
@@samvaknin Thank you for your reply! Your work and videos have helped me understand my narcissist better and answered all the questions that he didn't reply to.
It makes me feel so sick
Spittin facts
Sam, how can I further explore this concept of the dead mother? Do you elaborate it in any text that is available online? And a curiosity: in choosing the term, was Schiele a reference?
Read Andre Green’s essay from 1983.
Can a narcissist or psychopath reenter another shared fantasy with the same person after they have exited and mortified?
Can you search the channel?
makes me want 😭cry 😢
a study of absolute subjectivity
unfortunately, they quote not only this verse from the Bible, there are religious narcs who simply pour quotations from the Bible and consider themselves to be "special called"
samvak.tripod.com/journal45.html
This is why i never get leading positions, im not a full fledged narcissist.
Im more of a autistic, introverted person. However i have used violence on some narcissistic relatives. Maybe that makes me a psychopath?
Either way... How can someone like me reach higher positions and becoming more sociopathic?
Rofl
Funny like he has so much more to do than to stalk anybody’s letvone you gorgeous self
The more I watch these videos the less sympathy I have for anybody that chooses to be with a narcissist.