The last of us is a more story-driven game if you cut or gloss over the passable bit of the game play you end up with a decent story. I'm just glad they did the first game + DLC in one go.
Look, the name of this show is The Last of Us, not Humongous Fungus Among Us or How Joel Got His Daddy Groove Back With Ellie - the Us referring to humanity, not just the two of them. The game had a limited scope in which to tell the story because we were playing as Joel or Ellie, so we had to experience these things as them and with fighting and stuff in order to be an interesting game. As you pointed out, the show wasn't limited in that way. So we got a bittersweet love story about Bill and Frank, who found love after the world went to hell and who left the world together on their own terms. They had a wonderful life and learned so much from each other, and Bill did his best to pass it on to Joel. Then we got the Kansas City rebels, who successfully took out an extremely brutal group of FEDRA. Like the Fireflies goals are supposed to be, they liberated the people of the city... and proceeded to be as brutal as the people they killed. In the end, they were ultimately doomed by Kathleen's obsession with revenge because she ignored the warning signs of the infected in order to find Henry, and that horde of infected were headed for the rest of the people of Kansas City. We get a short glimpse of a happy couple who left people behind long before the world as we know it ended, and they're doing fine. They're also funny as hell and I would have enjoyed more of them. Then we find Jackson, a community of people who are thriving because they all work together for the greater good, and also because they kill the bad people before they ever get close to the town. They elect their leaders, and it seems like everyone who is able takes turns on the more dangerous jobs like patrolling so there isn't any resentment or favoritism. Like Ellie said, this place works. We got a flashback where we met Riley and learned a lot more about Ellie, just like we learned about Joel in the first episode. Next, we have David's group, religious cannibals led by a charismatic narcissistic pedophile. They hid the truth from most of them, but some were already questioning not only what they were eating, but also David's leadership decisions too. Because of David's obsession with Ellie, the rest will probably starve to death now that their hunters are dead. Finally, we have the Fireflies, the ones Joel and Ellie were trying to get to. Instead of using some common sense and taking the time to talk to our duo, they decided to rush into performing a medical procedure that would kill Ellie without asking her what she wanted or even giving her a chance to talk to her surrogate father and explain her choice and say goodbye. They got the consequences of that decision. Woven in and around all of these stories about the last of us humans, we got the ongoing story of how Joel and Ellie evolved from barely tolerating each other into a found family duo of father and daughter who would do anything for each other, because they are a part of the last of us humans too. Naughty Dog couldn't tell the story that way, but HBO could - and The Last of Us was always the best because of the story, not the gameplay.
To me the biggest flaw is that some of the key elements from the main story felt a bit rushed, I was expecting the last episode to be the longest considering how much story there was still left, great adaptation but definitely having more time to develop the main characters would have benefited the show overall. great video btw.
Yes! I was expect at LEAST an hour. But I really felt it needed to be the longest episode at over an hour at 20mins. The whole episode up felt so rushed. Like they just wanted to end it as fast as they could
To be honest, the final part of the game that the final episode IS, doesn't contain much more story then you get in the show. It basically goes the same route but leaves the drowning of Ellie and the fight with multiple bloaters out of it. The hospital scene was almost 1 for 1 though the show doesn't manage to hit the highs of the games version as well. 1 thing that bothered me was the alteration of how Joel would find Ellie. He sees a directions on the wall where as in the game he has no clue, which in turn makes the desperation bigger and the "I don't have time for this" feel more significant. and the final "i swear" visually took Joel more energy to say then in the show. In the show he says it to fast without emotion. Which is partially the point of lying to Ellie but I feel the game shows more of the inner monologue without saying it. "this will come back to haunt me" - joels thoughts (at least thats how I interpreted the games version of events) the story overal I feel compared to the game is much better and cohesive. It all fits better and the things that happen are more logical in nature the the "for the sake of gameplay" elements in the game. Still love the game but love the story of the show more. Though like i said, the final episode did not convey the power of that section like the game did.
The last episode needed the tunnels sequence to show the infected threat then show joel trying to save ellie to get us in edge, then go to the hospital. It missed a little bit and that makes me sad 😔
You hit the nail on the head. I love the games, the show was good but... I just didn't care for Joel and Ellie as I did in the games. Their bond just did not feel strong. The lack of infected played a big part in this imo. In the game, their bond gets stronger as they constantly need to look out for each other as there is always a threat, be it infected or human danger. Everything felt too easy in the show. Their journey did not feel long. Appeared to be too much distraction, focusing on things that ultimately added nothing to the overall story.
See, and as someone who's only *watched* the game and watched the show, I feel a much stronger bond with Joel and Ellie in the show! So I dunno, maybe it's something where it really does come down to an extra attachment that you get through actually playing AS them. But just comparing the actual narratives and storytelling without the playing element? I'm more attached to pretty much ALL the characters and relationships in the show, if I'm being honest :) And with Joel and Ellie in particular, I think a lot of it just comes down to my love for Pedro and Bella's particular chemistry... Troy and Ashley are amazing of course, but they just come across to me as a little bit more "traditional doting father and precocious daughter" vibes by the time their bond solidifies. Whereas in the show, there's definitely still the father/daughter bond of course, and Joel's desire to protect Ellie, but they also just feel like genuine *friends* , too, like I just enjoy watching how much they enjoy each others' company and share a similar sense of humor. They really feel like kindred spirits in a way I didn't so much feel in the game. And I think it also helps that Joel was that little bit softer that so that they COULD fall into a natural chemistry, even while they maintained the same overarching story beats for the progression of their relationship. It made it more of a case of Ellie clearly starting to break down Joel's walls from pretty early on, but him just really trying to fight it out of a very clear and visceral fear of the risk he'd be taking by caring so much for her as he knew he could. Whereas in the game, it's not that all of that still isn't the case for him internally, but it's just SO subtle that their dynamic is still essentially him being a brick wall until he takes the leap and leaves with her from outside Jackson. And I really appreciate the subtlety of the character work in the game, but I think it makes it easier to feel the connection growing between them when Joel is that little bit less closed off and more vulnerable. So to each their own, but I just can't relate to not feeling the connection with Joel and Ellie in the show 🤷♀ Also I truly couldn't care less about there not being that many infected, but then I've never been a big action person and that's why I appreciate TLOU for NOT being a "zombie action show". I wouldn't like it if it was lol. Besides, I really do feel like it keeps the threat of the infected much higher when they ARE used sparingly, and when every time we see them they're very deadly, like how they were used in the show.
@@stephaniel2850 agree, you literally hang with them over 16 hours in the game, doing small talk and actually playing to survive each time, comparing both experiences, it's not only unfair but also stupid
That is a great point. In my opinion the biggest flaw about the show is that it changed things about the game that did not need to be changed. I would have liked if they kept everything from the game and expanded on tid bits that was hinted in the game. There were a lot of unnecessary personality changes. For example, Henry in the game was an equal to Joel. He was not afraid to be violent in order to protect Sam. Instead, we got an afraid version of Henry who could not survive without the assistance of Joel. Furthermore, in the game we had notes that detailed people like ish and the sewer dwellers. They could have easily expanded on that. Instead they decided to make a poorly written and easily forgettable character in Kathleen. The best episodes in my opinion was, 1, 2, and 8
This is a hindsight is 20/20 moment but if they had just one episode of Joel and Ellie as the only human characters having to navigate an area full of infected, sneaking around them and killing some of them with teamwork, along with using some more of the dialogue from the game it would have gone a long long way to make the show more interesting and understandable to some people. I only played the game when it first came out so I don't remember all the set pieces but I know there's more than enough moments of sneaking around clickers that could have been adapted into real Ellie + Joel Vs. the zombies moments that could have made them seem more dangerous but also added that sense of dependency on eachother.
Without infected, there is no danger, without the danger and fear there is no extreme need for the cure. In fact, without the infected, Ellie doesn't grow as a fierce fighter, bonding with Joel along the way. Wanted to love it I ended up liking it xx
Bingo. They walked across the entire US. Not only did it not feel like they had made that epic of a journey, the show made it feel as if they didn’t need to.
In the game for a majority of the time, the world is the villain. They go through these deadly cities where there are either infected at every corner, fascist soldiers or Hunters who are so rooted in survival that they actually hunt people. These encounters constantly keep Joel and Ellie on their toes leading to them having to put a lot of faith into each other, which makes their connection throughout the game seem really natural. Compare this to the show where they basically just go on a cross country trip where there are only really a couple encounters with danger. And other than some banter talk with each other and the David episode, imo there is not a lot shown that would make me believe that they end up having a father daughter relationship. Also, the good thing about the world being the villain for the game is that when the main antagonist of the game David shows up, it hits even harder. Up to that point Joel and Ellie have seen some messed up people, but nothing really personal. Until he shows up. Compare this to the show where they already inserted an antagonists story, it kinda waters down David. Good Show but it can't be compared to the game.
@@Dustyphoto915 but its not supposed to be an epic journey where Joel is a superhero that kills hundreds of zombies and soldiers. Its a character story where ellie and joel must learn to get over different situatiuons and they learn and bond on the way
@@ivanbobanovic No disrespect intended but that isn’t true. The story of TLoU and the world is both. The human crap and the adversarial relationship with the infected along this journey. You think walking across the US during an end of world event should be as easy as what the show depicted? It dosent have to be hundreds. Other than episode five we are talking about single digit infected encounters in an entire nine episode series. It was too drastic a departure from the world that the original content created.
@@Dustyphoto915 I’m getting burnt out on the “it’s a story about people” reply. It’s a story about both infected and humans that needed to be balanced just like the game. 🎤 drop
I actually enjoyed the fleshing out of side characters, except I do think the Riley-Ellie mall bit was unnecessarily long, but I agree with you on basically everything else. As good as the episode 5 infected scene was, Kathleen's death was definitely dumb, she literally just stood there with her gun raised and waited for the clicker to kill her lol
so you enjoyed wasting on entire episode on the fleshing out of characters that are already dead or are in the game for very brief periods of time, but you thought the fleshing out of actual main characters was too long?
It was hard to believe this lawless rebel faction that dissolved the military in their city was run by a short fat middle aged woman who looks like a lunch lady.
Loved the adaptation overall but my main problem with it was the lack of presence of the infected. They seemed absent most of the time. They were terrifying and very well done when they were there. But the part that really made the world in the game scary was that one or ten could be around any corner any time even a horde just roaming across the countryside. I didn’t feel the dread really most of time unless they were already there. Also side note: the tendrils thing would’ve been cool as a replacement to spores if they used it more than that one time in episode 2 but it never came up again after that and it made me miss spores
Nah man you can't have spores, we have this star studded cast and if they have to wear gas masks or not look like they have freshly shampooed hair in the apocalypse then how will they promote their new line of skin cream. But seriously though wtf were they thinking with only having the zombies in like 2 episodes. In most episodes there are either 1 or 2 zombies and the only time you actually remember that hey, this is a zombie apocalypse is in episode 2 and episode 5. Episode 9- 1 zombie at the very beginning in the past. Even though I was seriously holding out for Joel to fight a bloater or something but nope. Episode 8- 0 zombies even though it would've made people actually trust David if they saw him fighting off Infected with Ellie but nope. Episode 7- 1 zombie in the mall during the past. Episode 6- 0 zombies it's just Joel and Ellie bumbling around in Jackson and then the College. Which BTW the firefly evacuated because of raiders/infected but now there are no zombies so it's like, wtf did they leave for? Zombies should've been used more there is no excuse for this little amount.
@@pintolerance785 I 100% agree like they didn’t have to have as many as in the game because it was for gameplay purposes but at least have a handful of infected appear in each episode like a couple runners and a clicker would’ve been enough. Even if they don’t fight them every time, you can have them sneak by them as a cool nod to a grounded play through of the game. Just anything to keep the threat fresh in mind.
@@danielfrank2985 just wanted to point out that we get 1 appearance of a bloater and it only serves to kill some random guy we don't care about. Also there are no explicitly encountered Stalkers. And Clickers only appear in 2 episodes. Do you know how cool it would've been to see Joel and Ellie fight against a bloater? The biggest problem with the show is the same as the biggest problem with the second game. The pacing is obliterated, Episode 3 and 7 could've easily been spin off episodes and then boom there's 2 extra episodes where you can include more stuff. If they were only lined up for having 9 episodes to begin with Also in episode 9 isn't it weird how at the very end how they just have Joel and Ellie get to three elevator no problem like. The amount of empirical weight carried in the first game at the end with Joel defenseless running to the elevator carrying Ellie while being chased and repeating things to her that he said to his daughter as she died. Nah let's just cut that. It's not needed. BS.
@@pintolerance785 yeah a bloater showdown for the last episode in the tunnel sequence that they cut out would’ve been awesome and yeah a sequence where Joel and Ellie have to deal with stalkers in like the College for example would’ve been good. And I agree about the elevator it seemed jarring that Joel was just meandered over to the elevator without the remaining fireflies giving chase. It lost a lot of weight with that and the desperation of Joel to escape with Ellie
The hive mind thing didn’t come up again either. Nor the infected kiss crap. All of it was just showy plot points to appease game players. They would have had zero infected if they thought they could have gotten away with it.
I wholeheartedly agree. I think the biggest issue is that Joel and Ellie essentially become side characters to their own story. Instead of watching these two struggle through hunters and infected and occasionally coming across others, the show just rushes from one side character encounter to the next. Those side characters essentially become the focus of the show while Joel and Ellie take the back seat. That destroyed any opportunity for them to bond, for Joel to develop the paternal relationship with Ellie. And overall, it made the ending seem unjustified. Nothing has happened between them for Joel to feel such a strong attachment to Ellie.
@@leves777 I agree with you. I have only watched the show (no video game) and felt enraptured by the shows characterizations, including the bond between Ellie and Joel. In my eyes, one aspect of the show’s exploration is a father learning how to love a daughter again after closing off that part of himself with the death of Sarah. Not only is Joel closed off, Ellie does a good job of conveying the self-sufficiency of an adult, which makes it easy for Joel not to assume she needs the tender compassion of a parent. The turning point happens in Episode 8 when Ellie faces one of her greatest threats, the threat of rape, and where she’s forced to be the most violent she’s ever had to be to survive. When she stumbles out of the hall to see Joel, and he sees the distress on her face, he embraces her and calls her “babygirl” for the first time. This was heart-wrenching for me because it connected all that I’d mentioned above
Vi, I agree with you. Joel and Ellie should have been CENTRAL to the story. Hollywood's version of storytelling now is to give time to each and every character, so their little feelings don't get hurt ! In playing the game (which felt like a movie) - it was a great experience. WELL acted, with a compelling story that you felt. This new world is one where "everyone's" voice must be heard - unfortunately. Lastly, completely wasting the time of TWO full episodes on Bearded Love and Teen-Girl Love was an atrocity. That time could have been better-spent on enhancing the flow and focus of the show we tuned in to watch in the first place.
This show has alot of flaws but it doesnt change my opinion i think this is a pretty good show and im looking forward to how they handle the golfing in part 2
Good points. What's most problematic about the Bill/Frank episode is that they never interact directly with Joel and Ellie. If you invest that much time in presenting two characters you need to place them in the main story. Like you thoughI felt the Kathleen part was the worst. She was just not very believable or well constructed. Joel and Ellie just seemed to cross the country too easily too. We needed to see more infected to make the threat seem more urgent. It's really odd that some people think this series is perfect. It has real flaws. The individual episodes, aside from #4, are all generally well done but they don't fit together cohesively.
nail in the head with how easy it was for them to cross the country. almost makes me wonder why they even have people in the QZ if the outside country is 10x safer lmaoo
@@hammywoods Exactly. The world they created just wasn't believable for me. It was weird too how that couple that lived in a remote cabin were so nonchalant with Joel and Ellie walking into their home with guns. There were a number of moments like that which just took me out of the story, and made things less immersive and realistic.
I disagree with your assertion that “if you invest that much time in presenting two characters, you need to place them in the main story.” The 3rd episode was the first to make me tear up in this series, and it was a compelling one of love, connection, and finding a companion in what is an otherwise hopeless environment. The good thing about it, along with fitting Bill’s recluse personality and the self-sufficient environment he built around it, is that viewers aren’t bogged down or interrupted by the outside commentary that might happen with other people’s judgements about love. These two characters meet, and we see an uninhibited version of their love. We get to see it grow in a protected fortress. There are more ways, more lenses, from which to observe and explore two men in love, and this is one of them. I found it to be an interesting, even useful, frame.
@@reynemanzano I want to agree with your comment, but they could've easily ruled out Bill's Story entirely. The Purpose of Bill's Story is to show Joel that everyone needs someone, and living to live can lead to a reclusive life. The Game shows this by having Joel question everything Bill is doing, and seeing how shut out he is. They could've easily made the story half the episode and the other half just about Joel and Ellie passing by and he sees a letter. Though, in my opinion, if there's any I would've changed, it's make Left Behind take place after episode 9 and make the infected for prominent.
Those cut-aways and ep3 ep7 are not bad on their own, but they take away scene time that we could spend with Joel and Ellie. If they really want those cut-aways, they need more episodes.
Yeah I really missed Bill interacting with Joel and Ellie. I was really looking forward to that episode. Good standalone episode but not good for the overall show in my opinion.
Refreshing to see a video essay properly critique something on it merits and not just trying to hate on it. Like most things in life you can still critique something you like. One point I would say though is about Bill and Frank’s story is that in a world where you know what is coming later on, it was a nice touch to see a somewhat positive storyline in this world. In the first game it makes sense that you needed to see what would happen to Joel if he didn’t had something to love. But with the direction that the story takes in part two, i think it was servering the overall story better that you could see what happens if you got lucky enough to get old in this world
Thank you for seeing my intention here. I don't know when the pop culture got to the point that noting a few flaws means that "I hated the show". I agree wholeheartedly about the changes to Bill and Frank's story. I think the "punch" of the episode comes from the fact that we see their love blossom. In the game, we only get the bad times and therefore, there isn't a reference point for the love that they've lost.
There were pacing issues and most of the bonding between them was off-screen. Also, while there were some excellent additions and changes, there were also some odd omissions. Overall I think it would have worked better as 2 seasons with 8 episodes, each around 45 minutes
Even a simple moment like Joel finally allowing Ellie to help him take out some hunters with that rifle goes a long way. He didn't want to trust her even after she saved him from drowning, but was slowly persuaded to do so. In the show ellie just shoots that guy who tried to kills him and then he automatically teaches her how to hold and shoot a gun from the get go, completely taking the tension between them away.
You hit it on the head about the video game biasing your view on the narrative of the show. I’m like you with this show. Loved it, but I wanted some more…ie infected, Joel and Ellie. However, this is anecdotal, but my fiancée watched this show with me. She never heard of this game other than seeing it on our shelves. She absolutely hates zombie shows (TWD, etc). She absolutely loved this show and bought everything they were selling. Joel and Ellie’s relationship, danger in the world human and infected, and most of all understood Joel at the end, but hated that he lied to Ellie. “You only get betrayed by the people you trust”. Anyways, she will never play the game. She hates zombies lol. And she doesn’t want to watch me play it. She said this was the best show she’s seen, narratively, since Station Eleven. That’s enough for me. Also Mazin is a phenomenal writer and will take the criticism to heart. I’m sure there will be more infected next season and an overdose of Ellie and Joel before what we know happens. Great video. Cheers!
Oh wow thank you for presenting the non-gaming viewpoint also! This is exactly what I was wondering about the show. There's no way of watching this without a biased opinion if you've already played the game. The Station Eleven comparison makes me ponder if I would have had problems with that show also if I had read the book beforehand. Then again it's book to series rather than video game to series, so not even comparable in that sense. It's hard to imagine as Station Eleven is just so masterful in my opinion. Anyway, thank you for watching and the kind words!
My experience and my wife’s is exactly the same as yours and your wife’s. I told her for years to please watch me play the game or at least watch a UA-cam “movie” of all the cutscenes, which she was never interested in. She loved the show and I loved finally getting to tell her “I told you so.” 😂
Yeah, same experience here. My wife usually can’t take scary/gory content but became unexpectedly drawn into the story. There is no way she would have watched it without the focus on characters and their narratives (in favour of more infected action/horror sequences). I appreciated this adaptation for making the story accessible to a wider audience while also staying so close to the narrative of the game.
She loved it because it wasn’t a zombie show. I think that’s the disconnect that many are feeling. That world the show created was so void of momentum inspiring tension that defined the game. If you love abstract emotional tales told symbolically through side relationships then this was the “zombie” show for that fan. It was a drastic departure from the games world.
the original games whole point relied on the player gaining a connection with Joel an Ellie but the show seems to forget that and doesn't do it as well (with 4/9 eps diverting from Joel and Ellie), thus making the ending less impactful
Almost like games cant expand on the other characters like a tv show can because its through the pov of the player, a tv show of just 9 eps of elie and joel crossing the country doing the same thing every everywhere they go would get repetitive and boring
Me and my friend did notice the pattern of a very active and emotionally intense episode, followed by a slower, but largely character-building episode the next week and so on throughout the entire season. Not that it was horrendous pacing, but as an og fan of the game it does feel rushed. I think they tried to give breathers and processing time between the emotional beats, but it doesn't work as well in the as in the game because the show can't slow down and sit in a moment like the game. A lot of subtle character building in the game happens as players are directing the characters across locations, and travelling at their own pace. This allows for way more autonomy over the story, something the audience of the show has 0 control over. Being limited to a set of episodes led them to sacrifice a lot of those smaller character moments that really solidified their relationship and so many gaps are missing.
I think they made a mistake by cutting/altering the fight Joel and Ellie have over her using the gun to save Joel. It was such a significant moment because you see Joel is fighting giving her any praise because he doesn't want to get attached nor show Ellie that he is. He is in that gruff, defensive old man mode and it continues to cause strife between them. Then, he realises this and actually decides to open up to her by affirming "It was me or him", and this is where they both know that he's grown a soft spot for her.
"autonomy over the story" is a great way of putting it. It just seems like the subtle character building is impossible to adapt into a non-interactive medium.
This is a matter of taste. The expansion and additional writing filled out the show and set up a future for the series. All the stories "independent" of the main duo thematically loop back to the story (not just the plot.)
keeping in mind i haven't finished the show yet, but i also have kept a critical eye on the show while watching-and i say this as someone really interested in how media translates (i love literature, writing, art, etc), and who wholeheartedly supports disloyal adaptations and the need for changes in media translation. and i think there's a lot that the show did right, and also a lot that i just felt the game did better as vacuum media, and then a fair amount that i thought the show just fell short of. i think there were problems in adaptations where they changed some of the characterization and relationships and that changes the entire pacing of the show compared to the game, which made it feel more rushed for me. also the show seems to spell things out a lot more for us, or narrate things, and i prefer subtlety. and i thought there were specific moments i could pick out that i could tell the blend of game into show was just pretty seamed. i also think the show does better small writing than big writing, while i didn't have a notable criticism of the game's writing.
The game's storytelling feels far more subtle. I prefer that version as well, although it's also very nice to see how they've expanded on some elements.
I agree with everything you said! The left behind episode was too long compared to the length of the season. My few nitpicks are that Tess dying like that was unnecessarily gross, the fungi guy kissing her?? Come on. Poor Tess. Also I feel like they wrote Ellie to be so edgy and almost mean? I have absolutely no issue with Bella Ramsey but the way they wrote the character is a bit off I think. Also the "I'm too old and weak to protect her" from Joel was kind of s strange choice. Also I feel like they left a lot of the gore out? Many scenes would have benefited from showing the audience how gruesome the world is. I also understand that too much of showing the violence makes its impact lesser.
I agree with just about everything that you said. The driving force for the whole game was the gradual build up of Joel and Ellie’s relationship. We didn’t get much of that, compared to the side characters and what was going on around them. I loved the show, and it was a very faithful adaptation. But it lacked in what I would consider the most important thing. Joel and Ellie. Also more infected would’ve been nice. They had ample opportunities to throw an infected scene in the final few episodes. You should do your longer essay. I’d be curious to see what you have to say.
Your points are all so on point lmao, but yeah everything you said especially about the ending falling flat is my exact feelings, I think it’s because they really chose for the show to be a fan service rather then a good show, they chose to make the main story whatever since it doesn’t have to impress those who already know it, and instead they made it interesting by expanding on All our unanswered questions
I whole heartedly agree with you that they didn't spend enough time focusing on the ever growing relationship between Joel and Ellie. Because that's what the main storyline of the game was about and why it was so successful. It's not so much a journey to get a cure, more a journey from abject devastation to finding hope and a warmth in your heart again. They really needed to focus on that because like you said audience members watching a TV show don't get as emotionally involved as a gamer does controlling the action of the two main protagonists. I also felt a few more fight scenes with Joel and Ellie taking on the infected should have been aired because that's another way that you see the two being pulled closer and closer, as they go through those experiences together, covering each others backs. Like you I've enjoyed the series but it needed to be longer. The 'Left behind' episode was good, but totally in the wrong place, meaning that all the tension at the end of the previous episode was lost. It completely messed the continuity up of the story at that point. Because there was only one episode left after Ellie dispatched David it all got rushed for me. Ellie being distant and quiet with Joel was of course natural after what she'd been through, but it created that distance between them again, even though it wasn't a personal thing. Because of that they needed at least one more episode, if not two, in order to focus on how much closer Joel and Ellie had become and how much they meant to each other. Bringing them closer to each other again.They tried with the giraffe scene and Joel telling Ellie he'd got hope again because of her, but it all felt a bit rushed. In the game because they'd spent so much time on that changing relationship you really felt that by the time they'd reached the fireflies and the hospital they'd become inseparable and that they'd literally die for each other, and because of that it really made the ending hit so much harder. My only other issue is I wish they'd just left the two characters exactly as they were in the first game and not changed them. In other words don't make Ellie too tough, cold and streetwise when she was cocky, funny and vulnerable in the game and don't make Joel all weepy with Tommy and having panic attacks when he was cold, distant, but decisive in the game.
I hadn't considered that but it does feel very weird that we go from Joel being stabbed to a flashback episode to Ellie and David and then just to the end. Honestly, just a scene at the beginning of the ninth episode in which they process the events of the eighth episode would have been good. It does follow the plot beats of the game, but we really just needed more time with Joel and Ellie throughout. Thanks for watching!
Ya they didn't need to change the characters. Eliie for a lot of it just came off as cold hearted and creepy. Whereas in the game she was a bit rough around the edges and wouldn't be pushed around, but inside had a caring heart that didn't want to see people hurt. But in an attempt to display character development within the show, to me she just came off as a brat who needed to be given a taste of reality.
To me, the first season should have been spent showing the time between Sarah's death and the introduction of Ellie. Show what Joel and Tommy did to survive during the collapse of society. Show the brutality of fedra and the birth of the fireflies. Knowing the world and the stakes and knowing exactly the kind of person Joel is would have had much more pay off when Ellie arrives and slowly breaks down his walls. Also, I know the show apparently had a huge budget, but apart from a few episodes, I didn't see where that money went to.
@@0912sooliIt's in the top 20 most expensive tv/cable series. About $15 million per episode. HBO is owned by Warner Brothers, a public company. Any public company has their financials available for review.
Part 1 works as well as it does because of how great Joel and Ellie were. Everything about them is incredible, to include the acting and dialogue. They are extremely well crafted and the entire world is built around their interactions. In the show, they cared more about the world and some themes. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it misses what made the first game great and in the end it’s just a pretty good but not spectacular show.
Thank you for sharing this. It was exactly what I've been saying to my friends and during the week to week releases I was shocked to see that reviews for each episode were as high as they were. Glad to see a good and honest critique of the adaptation
Great essay. I made similar points about this. I care about the story so deeply, done first 5 times, including on Grounded mode, 2nd twice through and adored that too. I honestly just never warmed to Pedro/Bella like I did Troy/Ashley, it didn't feel like the chemistry was there, despite their best efforts. Look at the way Ashley Johnson looks at Troy Baker in interviews and you'll see what I mean, they're so in sync and it really made the original story fly for me. I say this even while totally appreciating and respecting the show and understanding why they dragged it in slightly different directions, it was a very good piece of television. I feel now like it just needed 15+ episodes if the intention was always there to deep dive on side characters, in ways I enjoyed them more than the leads. Bills episode was fully incredible, as was Henry's and David's. I also remember the scene with Ellie leaving Joel wounded and it almost trying to trick you into thinking she may leave him, when in the game it'd be completely out of the question by that point, you just knew how attached they were as the audience. Also Joel feels a lot weaker in the game, physically and emotionally, and I felt it really hurt his character. He forces Ellie to choose who to go with from Tommy's camp, even knowing she wanted to stay with him which is really cowardly, even if it is in self doubt more than selfishness, he puts her needs above his fears in the game for the most part and I think they missed an opportunity changing that moment from the game. Also his PTSD like flashes felt unnecessary, we know he's very damaged, it exaggerated his age for me and took away from the pillar he was as a lead in the game. I really don't think they gave enough opportunity to flesh out the building of the relationship on which the whole series is focused. It's like they went from odd couple to father daughter in 40 minutes and lost significant plausibility.
So, I agree with a lot of your complaints - however, I was at HBO for over 15 years- I worked on shows from the Wire, Sopranos, Deadwood etc. all the way thru season 1 of Westworld. A first season, especially of such an expensive show, is a GIANT financial bet - you're betting on the Showrunners, you're betting on the writing, the directors, the cast, the crew, the CGI folks, editors and the HBO folks shepherding the project along. Discovery wants return on their purchase of Time Warner and I guarantee you nobody can be sure of success until it airs and people's reactions to it. I think if they had more certainty, they'd have given enough $ for 12 episodes - with more expansion of characters and more fungal zombies to kill (not a lot more, but a few would have been nice). I saw many shows that I read the pilot script (True Detective season 1) and was blown away - it was the best I ever saw & I was convinced they had a hit - and then I saw the pilot script for the Leftovers and thought "meh, I don't get it" - only to now love it as an all time favorite. All that to say, as Studio executives, it's hard to know before you start shooting, what you've got - LoU had to be fantastically expensive with huge sets, tons of extras, heaps of apocalypse set dressing and tons of CGI - so you say "here's a bunch of $, go get em" and hope for a return of your investment. But you do limit it - notice episodes got leaner over time, felt rushed at the end - that's budget. LoU is a real hit for HBO, so I'd expect they'll trust everyone and Season 2 will be even better.
Its not very hard to tell TLOU show was gonna be a hit since the game was a masterpiece. They kinda dropped the ball with the show and everyone still considers it good. That's how good the game is. They didn't even do it justice and its STILL good. Joel and Ellie seemed way to rushed to be close to each other at all. Pedro doesn't do any of his own stunts in fighting or anything else so he is literally just a face in the show. Game is 10/10 but show is 5/10 which is still better than most shows.
Fair criticism. This is actually the exact type of thing I want MORE OF in TV. Streaming TV shows is the only audio visual medium where episodes can be standalone short films. I think this advantage is underutilized.
I don't really have a problem with fleshing out the side characters, to me it's wonderful world building. The issue comes from the show's runtime. It's not that too many episodes focus on other characters but there are too few episodes overall. If the show had a runtime of 12 episodes and the 3 we're missing all focused on just the struggles of Joel and Ellie it would make their journey feel as long as it actually is. Spacing out the encounters with others and giving more time to show how dangerous a dystopian world full of infected really is.
you’re so right. i was so surprised seeing that they made the last episode so short, because in the game there’s still quite some time in between david and the fireflies, but instead they just skipped right too it. i thought they were going to redeem themselves a bit by showing more joel ellie and infected for the last episode, before the fireflies. i also wanted to say that i loved how they expanded on the side characters comparison to the game, but if you’re going to focus that much on them , you have to make up the joel and ellie time. it felt like they were replacing joel and ellie’s screen time just a bit to focus on the other characters. and so i think for the pacing between joel and ellie to be better they should’ve made the show like 10 episodes long.
The last couple of episodes dropped it from “I Adore this show” to “I really liked it”. You hit the nail on the head with the constant sidetracking with side characters. Another issue with the infecteds absence for me was a seeming decline in the tension of action scenes. The 8ths fight with David being the exception. I also personally wasn’t a huge fan of the way they did the hospital scene as what compelled me personally was how the game made me feel mad and ready to kill everybody which sets up the second games themes so beautifully. The montage just didn’t make me feel like that but that could definitely just be me
Hmm good point on the hospital scene. So much is riding on the player feeling like Joel in that moment and the show didn't nail that exactly. I think I was more caught up in the way that they display the bodies and show that Joel isn't "taking any prisoners". It's difficult to evaluate if the game's version is better because of us being able to control Joel in that moment or if it is better because there's just more carnage. I think they set up the scene like that in the adaptation because they want to refer back to it in the second season. Thanks for watching!
@@criticalcoffee the game vs show issue was definitely a factor there that lead me to my opinion. I was hoping for it to start in a John wick style fight where you’re enthralled by the badassery and but gets messier and messier and more and more brutal as Joel is giving his entiretyfor this fight. And hoped the way it is shot would slowly pull us out of Joel’s head. I also wanted it to be way longer
They definitely changed the overall emphasis of the hospital scene. Both versions are good in my opinion. We play as Joel in the videogame, so it makes sense for the segment to feel as if we're in Joel's position, a father giving his all to not repeat a mistake. In the show, we witness Joel from an observer's perspective, so we witness Joel as he made a horrifying yet inevitable decision to save Ellie, like witnessing a tragedy or an accident without any control over what's happening
I never played the game, and this video is 100% the view that I had on the show. I’ve seen nothing but glowingly positive views on the show, and the whole time I’ve been like “yea it was a good show, but I’m not understanding the level of hype that this is getting”. I mean the obvious comparison everyone wants to make is to the walking dead and how much faster paced this is to that show. My response to that is 1. They’re from 2 different eras of TV 2. Slowing down the pacing of the last of us (not as slow as TWD is at some points) would have really helped this show
After the David episode I wanted to see some growth in their relationship by showing them working together vs other humans and zombies like in the game.
My only real problem with the show is the lack of time we get with Joel and Ellie. The game takes 14-20 hours to beat and in this show it’s only 9 one hour episodes. So with the bill and frank episode and the Ellie and Riley episode takes that down to 7 not including the first episode where Joel and Ellie don’t meet till the end of episode 1. We just don’t get enough time with them for their relationship to seem real. Yeah it’s a few weeks or months between episodes but we don’t see that progress it just suddenly they go from hating each other to loving each other. You see and feel their relationship develop in the game so much better than the show.
The show was as fleshed out as it could have been with the resource limitations of this type of media adaptation (game to film). Just as from novel to film, there is only so much ground that can be covered when condensing a 15 hour experience to a season of television while also expanding. While I agree with your points and the fact that the show on its own falls short because it ends up feeling thin: as a fan of the game, the expansion of the universe was more than satisfactory. The show works best as a complimentary piece to this universe and i’m excited to see what they do with the next chapter(s).
I really do like that we get more. It just feels like something was lost in the adaptation process. I note many times that the third episode is better than the game in many ways as we also got the good side off Bill and Frank's relationship. It's so important and makes their deaths more impactful. Maybe one day I'll feel the same way. It's a whole other thing that I can accept on its own terms. Time will tell. Thanks for watching!
Well thought out essay. My only complaint is that the no spore thing and hive mind work well. If spores were airborne the world would not survive at all. No one would be here. The hive mind works for the whole stepping on the fungi. Mycelium in real life connects all the green in a forest. In this world it works because the mycelium will target your direct location. The changes were necessary to make it as realistic as possible and have interesting suspense in the story.
Thanks! I agree with the spore change. It wouldn't be as entertaining if the actors were wearing gas masks any time there were infected. However, the hivemind thing is brought up in episode 2, utilized only once in the same episode and then forgotten completely. The later time that they are killed, they really don't react like they do in the second episode.
The show doesn’t hit as hard as the game does purely because there isn’t much of a lurking danger to come and kill Joel or Ellie as there is in the game. The last 5 or 4 episodes don’t even have infected in it which is ok, but where is the threat that is going after these characters we love? Even Bill and Frank’s episode had more danger in it than most of the show. I think that’s why most of the game fans don’t like the show is because Joel doesn’t have plot armor but he really doesn’t have much to fight other than The clickers, David, and I guess the fireflies? The only time we see someone competently hurt Joel is when that kid comes up from behind him and Ellie has to “save” him. Other than that, the fireflies don’t even feel like they are trying to fight back, it’s lacking the difficulty that it had in the game where Joel could die at any moment.
6:06 i really liked the kansas city episode because i think it plays on the second game’s narrative of the cycle of violence. through kathleen and her cynical villainy, joel (and more importantly) ellie are explicitly and violently shown what the costs of getting your revenge in blood are. but wow fantastic analysis!!
usually when it comes to video essays I disagree with, they very often find a way to make themselves very irritating for anyone who doesn't agree with it, but this is a great video. would highly suggest you make your 12 page nitpicky essay a thing.
I would love to see more TLOU content if you made it! I haven’t played the game but almost everything you said was a flaw for me as well. As someone unfamiliar with the game, the problem with the “introduce/kill off new characters + long flashbacks” story structure is that it made me more interested in the side characters than Joel and Ellie. And those episodes would always end with a feeling of forward progression in Joel and Ellie’s relationship which DID interest me, but we spent so little time digging into their relationship that the next time we’d get a new side character or a flashback that the show spent a lot of time with, I’d end up more interested in that again. It’s not that I’m uninterested in Joel and Ellie, but it feels like the writers are relying a bit on audiences already being invested as a result of playing the game. The way the side characters were written felt like an amazing complement to the story but I wish we had a longer season so we could’ve given Joel and Ellie’s relationship more focus. Also, side note, it really bothers me how much handholding Mazin and Druckman did in their podcast because it feels like they had so little faith in their audiences that they had to TELL us how to interpret the show, and it’s frustrating because I think I would’ve found Joel/Ellie more interesting if I had an organic experience of watching their journey.) And because I just came at it cold, a lot of it didn’t land for me. Although from the spoilers I already know of the second game (god damn, Mazin and Druckman spoiled so much in their podcast!), I think this season will be very rewatchable.
I for the most part enjoyed the show but I also agree it wasn't from perfect. As a massive fan of the game series, I am in the unfortunate position of being able to point out everything good that was missing in the series. I think my biggest issue is one of the things you talked about that being the pacing of the show. I think limiting it to 9 episodes was a huge mistake, especially with the timeline they planned to use. The fact the preoutbreak and summer season takes up the first 5 episodes of the show was a bad pacing decision, as it left only 4 episodes for the fall, winter, and spring season plus the expansion, one per episode. While I understand the summer season was the longest in the game it was not over half of it and it really took away from what they could put in the remaining half. Episode 8 in my opinion was the biggest example of a rushed timeframe due to this. In the game, the winter season is probably one of the most stressful as you are put in the perspective of Ellie as you fight against enemies way stronger than you in a cat-and-mouse game that lasts hours until a final climax where you fight David, and are finally reunited with Joel. The moment is probably one of the most emotional in the entire game as after hours of struggle you finally beat all odds and are safe in Joel's arms. In the show everything happens so much faster, with the entire episode lasting I think 50 minutes you really aren't given much time to build up any suspense or stress, everything just jumps from one event to another. You almost immediately find out that David is probably not looking to be besties and is part of the group that attacked Joel, Ellie is captured minutes into the pursuit, Ellie escapes not long after her capture, and David is killed just after her escape. All this leaves the final moment far less satisfying than in the game, they are also missing another key element Ill get to, but in the show when Joel and Ellie reunite its kind of seemed easy like there was very little struggle for either character to reach that point. There are more examples of this in other episodes but episode 8 was the greatest offender. Another issue was the general lack of application of a soundtrack to follow serious moments throughout the show. In the game, the music is in every scene and it hits you hard, in the show they made the music more as background for shots of Joel and Ellie traveling. There were a few times like in episode 9 with Joel in the hospital, but for most important scenes, like when Joel and Ellie reunite in episode 8, or Joel collapses in Episode 6 or when Sam and Henry die there is no music before and during, only sometimes after. There is an emptiness that can be achieved by complete silence but I don't feel it in the scenes provided. I've watched edits where the HBO show is intertwined with the music that played during the game at that point and the scenes hit 10x harder. The last of Us would not be nearly the same without its soundtrack and I was hugely disappointed with its underutilization. I really hope in season 2 they change this, but I have a feeling that its just not Craig's style for a soundtrack to play this role so I'm skeptical. I also believe there was too little Joel and Ellie throughout the runtime of the season, while I did like episodes 3 and 7 they did not have a place in a series this short, they definitely could have been integrated better and played alongside the main story then separately. Like could you imagine if Ellie met Bill and Frank, Bill would be so comprehensive of letting a child roam around his village while frank would be so caring kind of like Maria just as a homosexual uncle figure instead of a Mother figure. Or what if during the left behind episode spliced between moments of Ellie and Reily we saw Ellie desperately gathering supplies and bringing them back to Joel trying her best to save him which, could have shown a stark contrast between her succeeding in saving Joel where else in the end of the episode she failed to save Reily. Overall I just didn't get the same connection or attachment to the characters as I got from the game, and it sucks because I believe Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey are both talented and could have done it better if they were given the chance. Especially after watching their interviews together, they are so cute why wasn't it like this in the show. If Ashley Johnson and Troy Baker both looked at them and believed with their hearts they were Joel and Ellie why didn't I get the same experience, what were I missing that could have been. Maybe I'll get to see it in season 2, I just really hope they don't kill Joel off too fast since they are doing 2 seasons for the second game which leaves a lot of room for slowing things down. In conclusion, the show was decent, and while I did talk a lot of negatives here I do believe it held a lot of value, especially for people who have played the main game, do I think it is one of the best shows of all time? No probably not, but was it better than the manufactured garbage that's mostly coming out now? Yeah that's for sure. OH and episode 9 was just perfect like omg I was quite underwhelmed with the show as a whole and then they finish like that, like damn Craig, you really know how to finish strong! Edit: Forgot to mention the fact in episode 8 Pedro pascal didn't fight Troy Baker was probably the biggest disappointment I had since it would have been the perfect easter egg for people who played the game and would have been Ironic as hell. Or if they wanted to take it even further what I was thinking they could have done is have Troy as one of the guys Joel tortures for information and after kills him with a golf club just for extra irony points
I didn't spot the differences in the use of the soundtrack, but I'll definitely make a note of it the next time I watch the show. Good point! And yea, they definitely need to add more Joel and Ellie before the golfing in the next season. We don't get the bond between the two from the first season so the whole basis of the second season (Ellie feels bad about not spending more time with Joel) isn't there.
As someone who did not play the game and did not know the story, I had the same reaction. I felt like the show did an inadequate job of building up the relationship between Joel and Ellie. I think it would have been a better show if they had focused more on their relationship, even if it meant some deviation from the game story. Having said that, it wasn’t a bad show. I still enjoyed it. I just feel like it could have been better than it was. I understand that Joel goes away early in the second game and I think that if they just move on to the second game story and Pedro Pascal is gone after the first episode, the show may lose a lot of viewers, particularly if Ellie has to be replaced with an older actress.
I haven't played the game, so I come at this opinion from a different place than you have. After Episode 8 I decided to watch the cut scene movie from the game in order to familiarize myself with the narrative it presents and how close does this adaptation follow it before the conclusion of Episode 9. First, I feel 2 or 3 more episodes should have been made. This would have allowed for more character development to the side characters and understanding of how they got to their point of power or survival in the story. Seeing how the game didn't have any narrative on Kathleen a further episode on her rise would have added something missing from how humanity is surviving in these tough times. I feel there are 3 main narratives happening here; the different solutions to surviving as seen in FEDRA, Kathleen, Bill and Frank and the others, the development of new feelings/ existence-reasons of Joel and the growth to Ellie as she comes face to face with her needs to survive in the wilds of the world and not the wilds of FEDRA school. I feel the adaptation showed her change from troubled student to David face mutilator in a much clearer fashion. Then again, it could have just been Bella Ramsey doing such a superbly nuanced performance of this. Second, playing the game creates a connection to characters that no adaptation can replicate, as is true with reading the novel a film is based on would do. Not playing the game allowed me a blank slate on which to build upon. I enjoyed the watch and think I may need to play the game once it comes out later this month for PC.
Great video! I agree. Having played the game and knowing what to expect, I felt the show was great but didn't hit as hard, a big part of that is things seems to move very quickly, almost rushed with Joel and Ellie in the show vs the game.
They filmed it during COVID. That's why a lot of the scenes were only a handful of people, that's why only 9 episodes, I think they did amazing all things considered.
Great commentary. I was not familiar with the game and so came to the adaptation fresh. I enjoyed the first three episodes but then became very disappointed with the writing as it moved forward. I had trouble articulating to myself what exactly it was, but your video essay did a great job of that. I could not agree more with your criticisms. Would love to see the nitpicky longer version, too. Keep going!
I really enjoyed the show (coming from someone who enjoyed the game) But I think one of the flaws of the show was that they took interesting stories from the side characters, made an episode on each of those stories but forgot that as a series, the episodes are disconnected from the lack of interactions between Ellie and Joel. I started looking forward to the stories of the side characters more than when we have to go back to seeing Ellie and Joel travel.
As someone who's played the games, the show is just fine. I like it expanding the world rather then just focusing on Joel and Ellie (especially the Bill and Frank episode, nearly cried). I can see it being a mixed bag tho for anyone who didn't play/watch the games.
The main reason why the Last of Us video game story was so good was because of the relation between Joel and Ellie. If that is what is the biggest flaw in the adaptation then it is without a doubt a failed adaptation. Calling it the best video game adaptation every only implies that video game adaptations have a really low bar.
Totally agree with you. I did enjoy the show but I didn't feel the connection between joel and ellie that I got from the game. It makes me feel like the second season events won't have as great of an impact as they should.
For me, the budget, or lack there of, was responsible for the show’s shortcomings. Too few infected, lack of time to develop the key relationship, and rushed storylines in multiple episodes. I can understand HBO being cautious with a VG adaption. But compressing the first game into 9 episodes left too much out. And doing it on the cheap left out even more. On another note; I was terribly disappointed they chose to expand some characters but Ish’s story was cut down to a single drawing. I agree, it is unquestionably the best VG adaption ever made. But the potential was there for it to be even better.
I agree with you on the lack of infected and I really enjoyed the show. I do however think that side characters like bill and frank, Sam and Henry weren't as much expanded on but changed. For example in the game frank hated bill to the point his last written words were that dying was better than being with him. Also in the game Sam and Henry were part of a bigger group passing through Pittsburgh and got ambushed by the raiders. I don't have an issue that they did this but I don't think it's fair to say they were expanded upon ass much as changed to portray the story they want to tell.
I never played the game but I had similar thoughts to yours, so I don't think these complaints are just from people who played the game. Show overall was good, but not great. Main complaints were that it felt rushed, disjointed. I think the show needed about 20% more meat to it.
Honestly, the pacing is all over the place. Sometimes episodes feel rushed and other times it feels like it's taking forever to progress. The characters while played by the actors well; were an inferior version of their game counterparts (tommy being far from what he was in the game as a leader everyone can look up to)
really loved the video! so insightful and you captured how I felt really well. I think it’s just a lot of pacing issues. they wanted to please the gamers but also keep the story flowing, and it ended up being really great, but with issues that did affect it from being perfect. great video, subbed!!
Best part of the show was John Hannah at the begining. Sets the doom perfectly. The show let him down thereafter imo. Best video game adaptation is definitely Mortal Kombat form the 90s imo!
I'm really hoping that season 2 isn't TLOU Part 2. We need more of Joel & Ellie because, frankly, based on episode 7, Bella Ramsey can't carry a show yet.
The worst episode by far is Left Behind….the Riley flashback that we didn’t need and could have spent more time with our two main characters……I felt like I was watching Degrassi
Having played the game, I loved the back stories. I think they were mainly for people who didn't know the story and it replaced a lot of the game play. Overall I think they did a brilliant job of adapting the game. I had a little less sympathy for Joel at the end than I did playing the game though strangely.
To be honest watching the series is just like Watching a full summary of the game. People just don't want to accept that lot's of content from the game was cut on the show which literally make the show just an average series. Seriously they got me with the first half of the series because of the expansion and fleshed out characters but the actual theme of the game was not present in the series which is the zombie apocalypse and the dark side of humanity. I agree of what you said about the hivemind concept which was never elaborated on the show. I don't have a problem with episode 4 but episode 5 is a little bit off because the the new characters that we don't really care about. And for episode 8 seriously I think it's better if they made David as who he is in the game rather than being a preacher with a cult which was already used multiple times on this kind of horror genre. Anyway hope season 2 will be more expanded and explained well.
I thought they rushed Ellie and Joels relationship which is the most important thing about the TLOU story. Like when I sit down and think about it, I feel like Ellie and Joel were not very fleshed out in their relationship, and this (for me) really devalues the emotional moments in the show where they try to show how much they’ve bonded. For example, the giraffe scene, post-david fight, etc. I think they either should've added 2-3 more episodes that are Joel and Ellie-Centered, or make episodes 3 & 7 into Joel and Ellie episodes.
I definitely feel ya man, the repetitiveness was a bit much. Aside from the Bill and Frank episode, which I thought gave justice to Bill both in perspective and closure, every other episode just seemed to view all side characters as meaningless annoyances. If nothing else, choosing to let some of these characters live could of brought new ideas into not just later Seasons but also ideas for the 3rd Part of the Video game, plus it would of brought more intrigue and dialogue. And what the heck man, there could of been a little more interaction with the infected than what was offered!!! What was shown made it feel that it wasn't that big of a catastrophe, or at best, more of an isolated incident confined to the more urban settings. I get they want to highlight the 'Love' factor since they compound and harp on that note hard especially during the first 4 episodes but there's more to this story than emotions. And the "Rushed" aspect was especially significant with the last two episodes, which seemed back when they were filming that maybe they thought it wouldn't of made it that far so they opted to condense so much into 45 minutes because if it did go bunk they didn't want to spend any more than necessary. Well, I hope with the success that it has made will bring an absolute banger into Season 2 with more thought and "Love" into the episodes, and for Pete's sake give us more interaction with the infected!!!
I've never played the game. From that perspective, I enjoyed the series so far. But, as another commenter eluded to, I'm watching a show about a guy transporting a girl across country, in a world overcome by a weird fungus plague. I'm not watching a drama. There is a fine line. Some back story is necessary, and useful. But i don't want another walking dead (which I did enjoy for a while, until it became a drama). So far, that line has been walked very closely.
@@criticalcoffee i see it as “a tribute to the game” but not enough time to truly flesh out the story. I think for the first iteration of this game its ok. With the talent from Chernobyl they can build off of this with new stories. How about a standalone show of Tess, Marlene, the fireflies. Oh course they need to finish part two but rough start was worth it.
@@criticalcoffee i tend to equate a drama with interpersonal conflicts, secrets, etc. Whereas, this show spent much time on social dynamic, revealing what it's like outside the camps, the infected, etc. and less time on this or that person's personal trauma. There is some, but imo it was nicely balanced. In contrast, the early years of twd were entertaining. But later there was way too much focus on personal trauma/experience.
13:37 I actually think it is a problem because it makes the urgent necessity for a cure something... not so urgent. Cordyceps doesn't pose a huge threat as it looks like people have been thriving relatively well, like the ending of a pandemic. The weight for a cure feels kinda stupid, imo.
I think the reason they’re spending so much time on characters that aren’t Joel and Ellie is to make Abby’s story feel more fluid in Season 2 and not just interjected into the story
Great essay, in my opinion, regarding the "Halt episodes", even though, they felt disconnected from the main journey, I don't think they were near to pointless, because without them, Ellie and Joel would be extremely lucky. Every character introduced has a backstory that explains why they help Joel and Ellie. I feel like these backstories contribute with the journey, and how it develops, because without them, we would not know why a character would help them, and it would feel forced. Ellie's backstory is no different, part of the reason she stays for Joel when he gets stabbed and tells her to go is because she recalls Riley and then decides to stay, to not leave him behind we can see this at the end of said episode, right when she was about to cross the door. Although introducing characters and seeing them die may seem repetitive, I do think each death teaches us and the characters different lessons, which ultimately contribute to the decisions taken by the characters, however, it would take a longer commentary to explain the ways each of the deaths contribute, but as an example, Frank dying and changing Bill in a way that he now feels like sharing his goods with people he met As for Kathleen, the only reason we could think of to justify her just standing instead of shooting is constantly thinking on what her brother would've liked and the fact that Sam is with Henry, but the character itself does not seem empathetic towards other characters which contradicts it so much, not much to say about it.
Oh the side characters definitely do serve a purpose! Hopefully I didn't imply something like that. My problem stems more from the fact that those plotlines draw attention away from the main focus of the narrative (that being Joel and Ellie's bond becoming stronger though hardships culminating at the end when Joel goes ballistic and lies to Ellie about what actually happened). I really like the interpretation that Kathleen hesitates because she recognizes that she is doing a horrible thing. Something her brother wouldn't want her to do. I didn't get that sense while watching the show, and I don't know how they could have emphasized that better. A lot is riding on the performance. It just kinda feels bizarre that it happens twice in such a short amount of time. Also the "kids die all the time" thing just feels _so evil_. I know it's drawing attention to Joel's decision in the end, but it felt just kinda clumsy. The infected just happen to pop out of that spot. Kansas City raiders are just distracted enough that the crew can get away. Kathleen finds JUST THE RIGHT TIME to confront the crew, only to be attacked by the infected. Idk, it just seems convenient all around in a "lol I guess we have to figure out a way that Ellie doesn't get shot in this scene" kind of way.
Great review! I would add two key aspects that also detract from the narrative and relate to the bad pacing: 1. The framing: this means the manner in which information is presented actually influences our attitudes and decision making. Take a look at Joel throughout the series; I think that one of the reasons of struggling to connect with the bond between Joel and Ellie is because of the way that the former is framed. They subtly present him in a demeaning light to make the ending less ambiguous. I suspect this has to do with an attempt to try to make the story fit better with the second part of the game. Even in the podcast despite Mazin saying the opposite, you’ll find out that they contradict what they say and firmly believe Joel was in the wrong instead of presenting it in an ambiguous way and letting the spectator decide. That in combination with the lack of run time dedicated to Joel and Ellie makes it fall flat. 2. The world building: while the Bill and Frank episode was a great story, it actually does a disservice to the narrative because it places little to no thought on the pacing and world building. They present a utopia that doesn’t hold up the more one thinks about it after watching it. This is often repeated throughout all 9 episodes, and the lack of infected is actually included here. They tried to set the story apart so much that ended up removing any sense of sudden danger. In the end I think the flaws might be explained because it seems no one challenged Mazin and Druckmann’s ideas. They became friends which is nice and all, but that very bias ended up hurting the quality of the series. While the show is enjoyable, is nowhere near close to Chernobyl or other prime HBO shows.
It’s a pilot season, they’re character n world building. All the characters revolve around Joel n Ellie. I do not want EVERYTHING being about them. The theme is how scary Love is, bc it results in loss. A common literary theme. Just like the game, the infected aren’t the horror, protecting Love is.
I love the concept of a 'pilot season'. Yeah, we're actually just going to drag our feet for 10 hours and then the show begins. While there are numerous other shows that are fire from the beginning. First impressions are incredibly important. Would my implementations take away from the theme of love being scary? Not really. In fact I think the show being about its protagonists would probably make it more accessible and not feel so disjointed. If you want to do a show about this world (e.g. World War Z, the book, not the movie) then do that. There's nothing stopping you from doing that. There's no denying that the focus of the show is supposed to be Joel and Ellie. They're in every episode, the narrative begins with Joel and Sarah and it ends with Joel and Ellie. I'm not asking that they're in every scene and that every time that they're not on screen somebody should ask "gee, golly, where did Joel and Ellie go?" Of course not. What I am asking is the narrative to focus on the characters that they've established as important. Ellie is a POTENTIAL CURE for the entire world. The thing that Joel "wants" is to deliver Ellie to the fireflies, and the thing that "needs" is to face the trauma of losing his daughter. If the viewer's focus is constantly pulled away from this character arc, then the show doesn't land it's final punch of Joel lying to Ellie.
Also the infected ARE actually a source of horror in the show. The cold opens of episodes 1 and 2 make that very, very clear by leaning on body horror.
I think too many people were expecting a show that was specifically meant for the video game fans. There's nods and winks here and there, but the storyline doesn't do that. It's not just a video game adaptation to the writers, it's like any other post apocalyptic series. I didn't know the game beyond a few key points in the story, but learning more about the game framed the show more negatively for me because then I had that expectation. The pacing works best if you go without the shadow of the game and sit with the storytelling elements rather than the plot points. Ellie and Riley's stories were meant to reveal key elements to the world building including how the youth sees their society and how they react to larger organization like Fedra and the Fireflies and I like how they take the time to build on it for viewers who are new to the story.
The show is rushed and not as immersive as the game. The season should have been 13 episodes. There were 12 chapters in the game and one DLC. Episode 3 entirely wastes time focusing on Bull instead of Ellie and Joel’s character development. Imo the story should have been told chronologically. The first episode should have chronologically showed the events of the outbreak and Joel and Ellie’s origin in the outbreak.
@@DarkEclipce Because it is the source material. The show is very unclear what this story is actually about wasting time focusing on side characters. The game is clear it is about Joel and Ellie’s relationship and lives.
@@petermj1098 but that’s the problem. A tv show and a video game are very different experiences. The immersive-ness of the video game comes from when you play as the characters and walk in their shoes. For the show the immersive-ness comes from getting to know the world and the characters. You have to meet them where they’re at instead of trying to make it what it can never be.
@@DarkEclipce This is HBO that made Game of Thrones that combined action pieces as much as human interactions. They are just being lazy with the production. Like two former Game of Thrones actors are the main stars of the show. HBO watchers who didn’t play the game would assume it would have a scale similar to Game of Thrones.
Great to see some well-scripted critism on the show! I've tried to word my frustrations with the writing/pacing/etc but I fear it comes off as bashing when I don't mean it to be. I've had very bad experiences with show-only fans being super defensive and not being open to any criticism about the show so its really jarring to see this comment section be so civil lol. Regardless, you put a lot of my feelings of the show into words. I would've loved to see maybe an extra episode, with a show original min-plot that is just Joel and Ellie. I kept feeling like the momentum the show did such a great job of building up was never really followed up on in the next episode. It never keeps momentum going because of those 'Halt' episodes as you perfectly described them. As good as those aside episodes were, they really did draw a lot of attention away from Joel and Ellie's building dynamic, leaving us with long gaps of time away from our leads*. Of course in the game you get to spend long stretches of time just with Joel and Ellie (mostly gameplay with some dialogue interatcions sprinkled in) but the show replaces that spare time with other character's stories. I could see how that would make sense on paper as a writer, giving that time to building other character's stories, but in execution we have the hindsight of seeing some of that spare time needed to be given to Joel and Ellie. Their most vital plot moments were doing all the heavy lifting when they really could've used that extra time to build more foundation.
Thanks for watching and the kind words. I think one episode more would have definitely helped. Or maybe that's too simple of an answer. It's clear that the focus of the show was the world rather than the "journey". I don't know if one episode with just Joel and Ellie would fix that. Idk it's tough.
I agree. Great adaptation and because of the link with the game it felt as enjoyable and engaging as those top tier shows you mentioned. But just as a show it's probably slightly below.
Tbh, I Feel like the Bill and Frank episode was so beautiful that it singlehandedly made the show worth it. I mean, we HAVE Joel and Ellie and every else and their story in the game. I loved playing the game and Joel and Ellie story is told perfectly. I love this Joel and Ellie so much, Bella and Pedro are perfect. But we have that story already. Don't get me wrong, their story is amazing. Just Bill and Frank was such a masterpiece of love and the acting was incredible. The acting is incredible in the show,but this was just a tiny bit above par in my mind.
I can't stand the "this story is about the characters" anymore, what story isn't about the characters? The infected are mainly the reason of why the characters are the way they are, if your story about a zombie apocalypse is gonna ignore the rules that you set about them, then maybe you should focus on writing a different story. I hope they fix the lack of sense of danger from the infection in season two.
I honestly think they should have made the entire first game 2 seasons so it didn't feel as rushed. Maybe end season one with Sam & Henry's death. That would have given us more time with the characters up to that point. I still loved the series though.
The "disjointed storytelling" as you put it wasn't really the problem. It gave us great storylines that were more compelling than the journey of Ellie and Joel. The problem was they abandoned that style to set up a rushed finale in the hospital. In another timeline, assuming we would only get 9 eps again, I would either have sacrificed the bombastic, natural ending at the hospital for more of the world and characters to be fleshed out, OR a more fitting idea would be an extra long final episode that ends with the hospital. As a non-player of the games, I loved every episode except the finale. As a whole, the only things I would have changed about the show on would be the overuse of tropes, particularly the phantom bites and the surprise attacks. I lost count of the phantom bites count, but after Riley and Ellie both got one i became more aware of it, then of course we had to see Ellie's mom get a phantom bite the final ep. The surprise attacks are expected since it probably happens in the game a lot, but soooo many of them are used to force us into a new plot point, and I started to question how good at being in this world Joel really was since they kept getting surprised so often.
This is the best videogame adaptation ever made. But what's crazy is, *it could have been even better.* I agree, it's still not on the level of HBO's best, and I think the flaws stand out, because: 1) they were unnecessary. and 2) they were avoidable. It's clear to me the change to the fungus was only an excuse to set up that weird kiss for Tess. It literally never factored into anything ever again. This is what I mean. Riley's Left Behind DLC is a tiny fraction of backstory, it's not meant to take up a large chunk of the plot. Craig and Neil could take as many episodes as they needed to tell this story, so the weird pacing of the series is no fault but their own. They were so eager to expand on the world of The Last of Us, that the core relationship took a back seat. How does that happen? Sure, we don't get enough time to flesh Kathleen out, but also, she shouldn't even be here, she's redundant because David is going to be the same but better, and parts like that could have been best spent on more bonding between Joel and Ellie. When episode 6 happens and they have their big fight, it's more than halfway through the season. Ellie decrying that Joel is the only one who hasn't left her rings hollow because we just haven't seen them together. It's the same with the plight of The Fireflies. We just haven't seen enough of the infected, for humanity's desperation for the cure to carry much weight. We've got several episodes of people managing the post apocalypse just fine because there are no threats! (This is probably the most damning criticism of episode 3 I can muster, because in isolation, it's the best entry of the season). This was a great show, but it had missed opportunities.
Really excited to actually watch the show for myself. I only ever watched a letsplay of the game so im inrerested to compare the two and see how they'd feel from that perspective.
I think it would have been fine to have more languorous scene chewing. This is a simultaneously grotesque and beautiful post apocalypse and there’s no real rush in the overall plot. Could have taken a page from Call Me By Your Name or 28 Days Later in this regard. Some story beats obviously are punctuated with urgency but most of it doesn’t need to be rushed and as a result there’s something immersion breaking about a constant sense of urgency when the narrative itself doesn’t necessitate that urgency. This leaves only the people who are making the thing were being rushed, and so it’s a little immersion breaking because you just intuitively sense this alien urgency arises from within our own world.
Good Analysis and I generally agree with the exception of the last episode. My least favourite episodes were 5 and 4. I agree the Kathleen character failed as she didn't feel real for all the effort they made to humanize her. It generally felt rushed. I really felt it fumbled on the last episode. In sharp contrast to episode 8, it felt like a low energy version of what is in the game, and Joel's actions felt more cold blooded and homicidal. For me that is a huge deal since it undermines season 2 if they are going to follow the same story as the second game.
Big game lover here. I had really high expectations for the show and overall I think the adaptation was really well made BUT... there's something lacking on the TV show because it never hooked me 100% and didn't feel tottally imersed on the Apocalyptic world. I just kept watching it every sunday because I'm a big fan of TLOU . For me the 2 main flaws are: 1 - Everything looked rushed. Not enough time to develop the characters and the adventure. Never truly bonded with the characters. For example, when Tess dies. I had 0 emotion with her death. As well with the cannibals, did not creeped me at all. Personally I think they could have made the 1st game in 2 seasons at least. 2 - The lack of pure and raw violence like we see in the games. With that comes the lack of infected as well. Maybe I'm hard to please but the TV show is far from being one of the best like many people say. Really happy that they staied truthfull to the source material because most adaptations are ruined because of getting away from the original. Not this One. As well, my favourite parts of the TV show are the extra content that they made like the intro from the 1st episode and the jakarta part. Hoping that, after a rushed 1st season, they improve with the critiques and I think that after finishing already with the plot of the 1st game they can get creative with the story. There's still huge potencial for the TV show if they make it right. TLOU 2 game has big flaws so that leaves space creative writing for the upcoming seasons. I rate the TV show 7/10 overall. The TLOU first game... Still one of my favourite story telling video games ever. Sorry for my bad english😅
its easy for this show to be good. the original story in the game was very flushed out for a game so i didnt expect it to be bad. but .... they definitely could have sone a better job. the lack of infected was a real let sown for me.
Ellie bit David and told him that he is infected so maybe he believes her and that explains why he going to hunt her down and ... even though the building is on fire
I haven't played the game (maybe I will in the future) and disagree with some of your points. 1. Cathrine monologuing made sense. Her goal wasn't for Henry to be dead, but to kill him herself to get revenge and closure over he brother. A quick headshot wouldn't have satisfied her grief, she needed to draw it out. 2. We have to get the entire backstory of Joel and Elli before the end with the fireflies, otherwise the ending just wouldn't have hit. Also the abrupt ending of the show wouldn't have the same effect if you could indulge in extra episodes afterwards. 3. Elli's background story is no filler episode at all. It's literally about the main character and answered quite a bit of important questions about her. It also serves to build tension since you're not gonna know if Joel's gonna be alright. 4. Flashing out the single episode characters works great imo, since their characterization automatically tells us more about Joel and Elli. And you need a bit more action and variety in an TV show since it's not interactive like a video game is.
I think as someone who has never played the games, the only episode where I really felt like my time was wasted was with the flashback episode with Ellie and that other girl. It felt *way* too long.
The biggest flaw is that the infected have a story to tell. This show wanted so badly to make the infected unimportant but they really are. They spent so much time telling side stories. They forgot the third main character, protagonist just as much as Joel and Ellie, the infected.
interesting critique. first one that I don't have a counter to, and one that I'm interested in hearing elaborated. What aspects of the infected do you think were left out? and in what ways do you think the infected could have been fleshed out?
@@reynemanzano maybe how did cordyceps evolve into this hivemind system? Maybe answer sam's question : If people are still conscious after being infected? And I guess there just wasn't enough chaos caused by infected. They didn't feel that chaotic although they're super dangerous
@@reynemanzano In a world called the Last of Us, the infected have won. They are the main protagonist. In the game each cringy ass click lets you know danger is ahead but also game play, the fun and tension that drive the story, and the thing that bonds Ellie and Joel. By minimizing infected so drastically from the game, they destroy the rationale for all of our other characters motivations. You can’t minimize the infected that much. It was a mistake.
@@Heisen_burger-dude The steak was too small but the vegetables and potatoes were very good. But I ordered a steak. Maybe when I put my second order in a year from now, the chef will give me a bigger steak.
@@Heisen_burger-dude dumb take. There's a difference between not getting enough to can't get enough. There's a huge difference in Arcane season 1 to the TLOU and it's in the story telling. Maybe watch more well written media and come back here.
@@Vizible21 dude maybe you should learn beying not a toxic f*ck in the internet. My comment doesnt insult anyone. You want to test media knowledge? I literally played the game long before your ass even heard from tlou
funny how the scenery is more important than joel and ellie and relationships of characters, which is more important than infected, yet there isn't much going on scenery wise to remind you this isn't just a post apocalyptic future, it's one covered in spores/tendrils. So the scenery was a passive focal point but also didn't involve the key element of the plot, cordyceps.
For me the flaw is lack of action scenes that expands more of the hardships and developing bonds. They rarely showed the infected. Could've added 20-30 minutes more every episode to show those
That Joel impersonation was actually on point. I didn't even plan it.
Naughty Dog:👀
The last of us is a more story-driven game if you cut or gloss over the passable bit of the game play you end up with a decent story. I'm just glad they did the first game + DLC in one go.
Look, the name of this show is The Last of Us, not Humongous Fungus Among Us or How Joel Got His Daddy Groove Back With Ellie - the Us referring to humanity, not just the two of them. The game had a limited scope in which to tell the story because we were playing as Joel or Ellie, so we had to experience these things as them and with fighting and stuff in order to be an interesting game. As you pointed out, the show wasn't limited in that way.
So we got a bittersweet love story about Bill and Frank, who found love after the world went to hell and who left the world together on their own terms. They had a wonderful life and learned so much from each other, and Bill did his best to pass it on to Joel.
Then we got the Kansas City rebels, who successfully took out an extremely brutal group of FEDRA. Like the Fireflies goals are supposed to be, they liberated the people of the city... and proceeded to be as brutal as the people they killed. In the end, they were ultimately doomed by Kathleen's obsession with revenge because she ignored the warning signs of the infected in order to find Henry, and that horde of infected were headed for the rest of the people of Kansas City.
We get a short glimpse of a happy couple who left people behind long before the world as we know it ended, and they're doing fine. They're also funny as hell and I would have enjoyed more of them.
Then we find Jackson, a community of people who are thriving because they all work together for the greater good, and also because they kill the bad people before they ever get close to the town. They elect their leaders, and it seems like everyone who is able takes turns on the more dangerous jobs like patrolling so there isn't any resentment or favoritism. Like Ellie said, this place works.
We got a flashback where we met Riley and learned a lot more about Ellie, just like we learned about Joel in the first episode.
Next, we have David's group, religious cannibals led by a charismatic narcissistic pedophile. They hid the truth from most of them, but some were already questioning not only what they were eating, but also David's leadership decisions too. Because of David's obsession with Ellie, the rest will probably starve to death now that their hunters are dead.
Finally, we have the Fireflies, the ones Joel and Ellie were trying to get to. Instead of using some common sense and taking the time to talk to our duo, they decided to rush into performing a medical procedure that would kill Ellie without asking her what she wanted or even giving her a chance to talk to her surrogate father and explain her choice and say goodbye. They got the consequences of that decision.
Woven in and around all of these stories about the last of us humans, we got the ongoing story of how Joel and Ellie evolved from barely tolerating each other into a found family duo of father and daughter who would do anything for each other, because they are a part of the last of us humans too.
Naughty Dog couldn't tell the story that way, but HBO could - and The Last of Us was always the best because of the story, not the gameplay.
To me the biggest flaw is that some of the key elements from the main story felt a bit rushed, I was expecting the last episode to be the longest considering how much story there was still left, great adaptation but definitely having more time to develop the main characters would have benefited the show overall. great video btw.
Yes! I was expect at LEAST an hour. But I really felt it needed to be the longest episode at over an hour at 20mins. The whole episode up felt so rushed. Like they just wanted to end it as fast as they could
To be honest, the final part of the game that the final episode IS, doesn't contain much more story then you get in the show.
It basically goes the same route but leaves the drowning of Ellie and the fight with multiple bloaters out of it.
The hospital scene was almost 1 for 1 though the show doesn't manage to hit the highs of the games version as well.
1 thing that bothered me was the alteration of how Joel would find Ellie.
He sees a directions on the wall where as in the game he has no clue, which in turn makes the desperation bigger and the "I don't have time for this" feel more significant.
and the final "i swear" visually took Joel more energy to say then in the show.
In the show he says it to fast without emotion. Which is partially the point of lying to Ellie but I feel the game shows more of the inner monologue without saying it.
"this will come back to haunt me" - joels thoughts (at least thats how I interpreted the games version of events)
the story overal I feel compared to the game is much better and cohesive. It all fits better and the things that happen are more logical in nature the the "for the sake of gameplay" elements in the game.
Still love the game but love the story of the show more.
Though like i said, the final episode did not convey the power of that section like the game did.
I honestly would have loved a 22 episode season.
There wasn't any story left out - just action.
The last episode needed the tunnels sequence to show the infected threat then show joel trying to save ellie to get us in edge, then go to the hospital. It missed a little bit and that makes me sad 😔
You hit the nail on the head. I love the games, the show was good but... I just didn't care for Joel and Ellie as I did in the games. Their bond just did not feel strong. The lack of infected played a big part in this imo. In the game, their bond gets stronger as they constantly need to look out for each other as there is always a threat, be it infected or human danger. Everything felt too easy in the show. Their journey did not feel long. Appeared to be too much distraction, focusing on things that ultimately added nothing to the overall story.
See, and as someone who's only *watched* the game and watched the show, I feel a much stronger bond with Joel and Ellie in the show! So I dunno, maybe it's something where it really does come down to an extra attachment that you get through actually playing AS them. But just comparing the actual narratives and storytelling without the playing element? I'm more attached to pretty much ALL the characters and relationships in the show, if I'm being honest :)
And with Joel and Ellie in particular, I think a lot of it just comes down to my love for Pedro and Bella's particular chemistry... Troy and Ashley are amazing of course, but they just come across to me as a little bit more "traditional doting father and precocious daughter" vibes by the time their bond solidifies. Whereas in the show, there's definitely still the father/daughter bond of course, and Joel's desire to protect Ellie, but they also just feel like genuine *friends* , too, like I just enjoy watching how much they enjoy each others' company and share a similar sense of humor. They really feel like kindred spirits in a way I didn't so much feel in the game.
And I think it also helps that Joel was that little bit softer that so that they COULD fall into a natural chemistry, even while they maintained the same overarching story beats for the progression of their relationship. It made it more of a case of Ellie clearly starting to break down Joel's walls from pretty early on, but him just really trying to fight it out of a very clear and visceral fear of the risk he'd be taking by caring so much for her as he knew he could. Whereas in the game, it's not that all of that still isn't the case for him internally, but it's just SO subtle that their dynamic is still essentially him being a brick wall until he takes the leap and leaves with her from outside Jackson. And I really appreciate the subtlety of the character work in the game, but I think it makes it easier to feel the connection growing between them when Joel is that little bit less closed off and more vulnerable.
So to each their own, but I just can't relate to not feeling the connection with Joel and Ellie in the show 🤷♀
Also I truly couldn't care less about there not being that many infected, but then I've never been a big action person and that's why I appreciate TLOU for NOT being a "zombie action show". I wouldn't like it if it was lol. Besides, I really do feel like it keeps the threat of the infected much higher when they ARE used sparingly, and when every time we see them they're very deadly, like how they were used in the show.
@@stephaniel2850 agree, you literally hang with them over 16 hours in the game, doing small talk and actually playing to survive each time, comparing both experiences, it's not only unfair but also stupid
That is a great point. In my opinion the biggest flaw about the show is that it changed things about the game that did not need to be changed.
I would have liked if they kept everything from the game and expanded on tid bits that was hinted in the game.
There were a lot of unnecessary personality changes. For example, Henry in the game was an equal to Joel. He was not afraid to be violent in order to protect Sam.
Instead, we got an afraid version of Henry who could not survive without the assistance of Joel.
Furthermore, in the game we had notes that detailed people like ish and the sewer dwellers. They could have easily expanded on that. Instead they decided to make a poorly written and easily forgettable character in Kathleen.
The best episodes in my opinion was, 1, 2, and 8
This is a hindsight is 20/20 moment but if they had just one episode of Joel and Ellie as the only human characters having to navigate an area full of infected, sneaking around them and killing some of them with teamwork, along with using some more of the dialogue from the game it would have gone a long long way to make the show more interesting and understandable to some people. I only played the game when it first came out so I don't remember all the set pieces but I know there's more than enough moments of sneaking around clickers that could have been adapted into real Ellie + Joel Vs. the zombies moments that could have made them seem more dangerous but also added that sense of dependency on eachother.
@@Riskofdisconnect yes exactly this!! This would have been excellent
Without infected, there is no danger, without the danger and fear there is no extreme need for the cure. In fact, without the infected, Ellie doesn't grow as a fierce fighter, bonding with Joel along the way. Wanted to love it I ended up liking it xx
Bingo. They walked across the entire US. Not only did it not feel like they had made that epic of a journey, the show made it feel as if they didn’t need to.
In the game for a majority of the time, the world is the villain. They go through these deadly cities where there are either infected at every corner, fascist soldiers or Hunters who are so rooted in survival that they actually hunt people. These encounters constantly keep Joel and Ellie on their toes leading to them having to put a lot of faith into each other, which makes their connection throughout the game seem really natural. Compare this to the show where they basically just go on a cross country trip where there are only really a couple encounters with danger. And other than some banter talk with each other and the David episode, imo there is not a lot shown that would make me believe that they end up having a father daughter relationship.
Also, the good thing about the world being the villain for the game is that when the main antagonist of the game David shows up, it hits even harder. Up to that point Joel and Ellie have seen some messed up people, but nothing really personal. Until he shows up. Compare this to the show where they already inserted an antagonists story, it kinda waters down David.
Good Show but it can't be compared to the game.
@@Dustyphoto915 but its not supposed to be an epic journey where Joel is a superhero that kills hundreds of zombies and soldiers. Its a character story where ellie and joel must learn to get over different situatiuons and they learn and bond on the way
@@ivanbobanovic No disrespect intended but that isn’t true. The story of TLoU and the world is both. The human crap and the adversarial relationship with the infected along this journey. You think walking across the US during an end of world event should be as easy as what the show depicted? It dosent have to be hundreds. Other than episode five we are talking about single digit infected encounters in an entire nine episode series. It was too drastic a departure from the world that the original content created.
@@Dustyphoto915 I’m getting burnt out on the “it’s a story about people” reply. It’s a story about both infected and humans that needed to be balanced just like the game. 🎤 drop
I actually enjoyed the fleshing out of side characters, except I do think the Riley-Ellie mall bit was unnecessarily long, but I agree with you on basically everything else. As good as the episode 5 infected scene was, Kathleen's death was definitely dumb, she literally just stood there with her gun raised and waited for the clicker to kill her lol
Oh yeah the bloater ripping Perry's head off in the background was great.
Just about everything in the riley/ellie episode was in the left behind dlc
so you enjoyed wasting on entire episode on the fleshing out of characters that are already dead or are in the game for very brief periods of time, but you thought the fleshing out of actual main characters was too long?
@@realyopikechannel literally💀
It was hard to believe this lawless rebel faction that dissolved the military in their city was run by a short fat middle aged woman who looks like a lunch lady.
Loved the adaptation overall but my main problem with it was the lack of presence of the infected. They seemed absent most of the time. They were terrifying and very well done when they were there. But the part that really made the world in the game scary was that one or ten could be around any corner any time even a horde just roaming across the countryside. I didn’t feel the dread really most of time unless they were already there.
Also side note: the tendrils thing would’ve been cool as a replacement to spores if they used it more than that one time in episode 2 but it never came up again after that and it made me miss spores
Nah man you can't have spores, we have this star studded cast and if they have to wear gas masks or not look like they have freshly shampooed hair in the apocalypse then how will they promote their new line of skin cream.
But seriously though wtf were they thinking with only having the zombies in like 2 episodes. In most episodes there are either 1 or 2 zombies and the only time you actually remember that hey, this is a zombie apocalypse is in episode 2 and episode 5.
Episode 9- 1 zombie at the very beginning in the past. Even though I was seriously holding out for Joel to fight a bloater or something but nope.
Episode 8- 0 zombies even though it would've made people actually trust David if they saw him fighting off Infected with Ellie but nope.
Episode 7- 1 zombie in the mall during the past.
Episode 6- 0 zombies it's just Joel and Ellie bumbling around in Jackson and then the College. Which BTW the firefly evacuated because of raiders/infected but now there are no zombies so it's like, wtf did they leave for?
Zombies should've been used more there is no excuse for this little amount.
@@pintolerance785 I 100% agree like they didn’t have to have as many as in the game because it was for gameplay purposes but at least have a handful of infected appear in each episode like a couple runners and a clicker would’ve been enough. Even if they don’t fight them every time, you can have them sneak by them as a cool nod to a grounded play through of the game. Just anything to keep the threat fresh in mind.
@@danielfrank2985 just wanted to point out that we get 1 appearance of a bloater and it only serves to kill some random guy we don't care about.
Also there are no explicitly encountered Stalkers.
And Clickers only appear in 2 episodes.
Do you know how cool it would've been to see Joel and Ellie fight against a bloater?
The biggest problem with the show is the same as the biggest problem with the second game. The pacing is obliterated, Episode 3 and 7 could've easily been spin off episodes and then boom there's 2 extra episodes where you can include more stuff. If they were only lined up for having 9 episodes to begin with
Also in episode 9 isn't it weird how at the very end how they just have Joel and Ellie get to three elevator no problem like. The amount of empirical weight carried in the first game at the end with Joel defenseless running to the elevator carrying Ellie while being chased and repeating things to her that he said to his daughter as she died. Nah let's just cut that. It's not needed. BS.
@@pintolerance785 yeah a bloater showdown for the last episode in the tunnel sequence that they cut out would’ve been awesome and yeah a sequence where Joel and Ellie have to deal with stalkers in like the College for example would’ve been good. And I agree about the elevator it seemed jarring that Joel was just meandered over to the elevator without the remaining fireflies giving chase. It lost a lot of weight with that and the desperation of Joel to escape with Ellie
The hive mind thing didn’t come up again either. Nor the infected kiss crap. All of it was just showy plot points to appease game players. They would have had zero infected if they thought they could have gotten away with it.
I wholeheartedly agree. I think the biggest issue is that Joel and Ellie essentially become side characters to their own story. Instead of watching these two struggle through hunters and infected and occasionally coming across others, the show just rushes from one side character encounter to the next. Those side characters essentially become the focus of the show while Joel and Ellie take the back seat. That destroyed any opportunity for them to bond, for Joel to develop the paternal relationship with Ellie. And overall, it made the ending seem unjustified. Nothing has happened between them for Joel to feel such a strong attachment to Ellie.
I thought the side characters were all useful for world-building purposes... and you need some of that in a 1st season?
@@leves777 I agree with you. I have only watched the show (no video game) and felt enraptured by the shows characterizations, including the bond between Ellie and Joel. In my eyes, one aspect of the show’s exploration is a father learning how to love a daughter again after closing off that part of himself with the death of Sarah. Not only is Joel closed off, Ellie does a good job of conveying the self-sufficiency of an adult, which makes it easy for Joel not to assume she needs the tender compassion of a parent. The turning point happens in Episode 8 when Ellie faces one of her greatest threats, the threat of rape, and where she’s forced to be the most violent she’s ever had to be to survive. When she stumbles out of the hall to see Joel, and he sees the distress on her face, he embraces her and calls her “babygirl” for the first time. This was heart-wrenching for me because it connected all that I’d mentioned above
Vi, I agree with you. Joel and Ellie should have been CENTRAL to the story.
Hollywood's version of storytelling now is to give time to each and every character, so their little feelings don't get hurt !
In playing the game (which felt like a movie) - it was a great experience. WELL acted, with a compelling story that you felt.
This new world is one where "everyone's" voice must be heard - unfortunately.
Lastly, completely wasting the time of TWO full episodes on Bearded Love and Teen-Girl Love was an atrocity.
That time could have been better-spent on enhancing the flow and focus of the show we tuned in to watch in the first place.
It's less "Last of Us" and more "This is Us"
@@iamtheiceman It's so easy to spot right-wingers in reviews lol
"show bad because homo" ok
This show has alot of flaws but it doesnt change my opinion i think this is a pretty good show and im looking forward to how they handle the golfing in part 2
especially compared to the video game, but if i want that i can go play that. gr8 show tho, my damn who's never played the game loved the show
😂 Golfing, oof, I didn't even think about this!! Abby better be fuckin stacked too!! 💪
Golfing 😅😭😭😭
Golf was such an unexpected side mechanic for a gritty dystopian game.
If by looking forward to part 2 you mean the absolute shitshow mess that will come. Yes I agree
Good points. What's most problematic about the Bill/Frank episode is that they never interact directly with Joel and Ellie. If you invest that much time in presenting two characters you need to place them in the main story. Like you thoughI felt the Kathleen part was the worst. She was just not very believable or well constructed. Joel and Ellie just seemed to cross the country too easily too. We needed to see more infected to make the threat seem more urgent. It's really odd that some people think this series is perfect. It has real flaws. The individual episodes, aside from #4, are all generally well done but they don't fit together cohesively.
nail in the head with how easy it was for them to cross the country. almost makes me wonder why they even have people in the QZ if the outside country is 10x safer lmaoo
@@hammywoods Exactly. The world they created just wasn't believable for me. It was weird too how that couple that lived in a remote cabin were so nonchalant with Joel and Ellie walking into their home with guns. There were a number of moments like that which just took me out of the story, and made things less immersive and realistic.
@flx I pretty much agree with OP. It was good but was added to virtue signal. I think we need a word for not wanting to see two gay men kiss haha.
I disagree with your assertion that “if you invest that much time in presenting two characters, you need to place them in the main story.” The 3rd episode was the first to make me tear up in this series, and it was a compelling one of love, connection, and finding a companion in what is an otherwise hopeless environment. The good thing about it, along with fitting Bill’s recluse personality and the self-sufficient environment he built around it, is that viewers aren’t bogged down or interrupted by the outside commentary that might happen with other people’s judgements about love. These two characters meet, and we see an uninhibited version of their love. We get to see it grow in a protected fortress. There are more ways, more lenses, from which to observe and explore two men in love, and this is one of them. I found it to be an interesting, even useful, frame.
@@reynemanzano
I want to agree with your comment, but they could've easily ruled out Bill's Story entirely. The Purpose of Bill's Story is to show Joel that everyone needs someone, and living to live can lead to a reclusive life.
The Game shows this by having Joel question everything Bill is doing, and seeing how shut out he is.
They could've easily made the story half the episode and the other half just about Joel and Ellie passing by and he sees a letter.
Though, in my opinion, if there's any I would've changed, it's make Left Behind take place after episode 9 and make the infected for prominent.
Those cut-aways and ep3 ep7 are not bad on their own, but they take away scene time that we could spend with Joel and Ellie. If they really want those cut-aways, they need more episodes.
Yeah I really missed Bill interacting with Joel and Ellie. I was really looking forward to that episode. Good standalone episode but not good for the overall show in my opinion.
Refreshing to see a video essay properly critique something on it merits and not just trying to hate on it. Like most things in life you can still critique something you like.
One point I would say though is about Bill and Frank’s story is that in a world where you know what is coming later on, it was a nice touch to see a somewhat positive storyline in this world. In the first game it makes sense that you needed to see what would happen to Joel if he didn’t had something to love. But with the direction that the story takes in part two, i think it was servering the overall story better that you could see what happens if you got lucky enough to get old in this world
Thank you for seeing my intention here. I don't know when the pop culture got to the point that noting a few flaws means that "I hated the show".
I agree wholeheartedly about the changes to Bill and Frank's story. I think the "punch" of the episode comes from the fact that we see their love blossom. In the game, we only get the bad times and therefore, there isn't a reference point for the love that they've lost.
There were pacing issues and most of the bonding between them was off-screen. Also, while there were some excellent additions and changes, there were also some odd omissions. Overall I think it would have worked better as 2 seasons with 8 episodes, each around 45 minutes
Even a simple moment like Joel finally allowing Ellie to help him take out some hunters with that rifle goes a long way. He didn't want to trust her even after she saved him from drowning, but was slowly persuaded to do so. In the show ellie just shoots that guy who tried to kills him and then he automatically teaches her how to hold and shoot a gun from the get go, completely taking the tension between them away.
You hit it on the head about the video game biasing your view on the narrative of the show.
I’m like you with this show. Loved it, but I wanted some more…ie infected, Joel and Ellie.
However, this is anecdotal, but my fiancée watched this show with me. She never heard of this game other than seeing it on our shelves. She absolutely hates zombie shows (TWD, etc). She absolutely loved this show and bought everything they were selling. Joel and Ellie’s relationship, danger in the world human and infected, and most of all understood Joel at the end, but hated that he lied to Ellie. “You only get betrayed by the people you trust”.
Anyways, she will never play the game. She hates zombies lol. And she doesn’t want to watch me play it. She said this was the best show she’s seen, narratively, since Station Eleven.
That’s enough for me. Also Mazin is a phenomenal writer and will take the criticism to heart. I’m sure there will be more infected next season and an overdose of Ellie and Joel before what we know happens.
Great video. Cheers!
Oh wow thank you for presenting the non-gaming viewpoint also! This is exactly what I was wondering about the show. There's no way of watching this without a biased opinion if you've already played the game. The Station Eleven comparison makes me ponder if I would have had problems with that show also if I had read the book beforehand. Then again it's book to series rather than video game to series, so not even comparable in that sense. It's hard to imagine as Station Eleven is just so masterful in my opinion.
Anyway, thank you for watching and the kind words!
My experience and my wife’s is exactly the same as yours and your wife’s. I told her for years to please watch me play the game or at least watch a UA-cam “movie” of all the cutscenes, which she was never interested in. She loved the show and I loved finally getting to tell her “I told you so.” 😂
I didn't play the game but I agreed with all the video's points. I don't think it's game-specific complaints at all.
Yeah, same experience here. My wife usually can’t take scary/gory content but became unexpectedly drawn into the story. There is no way she would have watched it without the focus on characters and their narratives (in favour of more infected action/horror sequences). I appreciated this adaptation for making the story accessible to a wider audience while also staying so close to the narrative of the game.
She loved it because it wasn’t a zombie show. I think that’s the disconnect that many are feeling. That world the show created was so void of momentum inspiring tension that defined the game. If you love abstract emotional tales told symbolically through side relationships then this was the “zombie” show for that fan. It was a drastic departure from the games world.
I thought it was fine but pacing was a big issue which worries me in terms of how the sequel will be adapted.
the original games whole point relied on the player gaining a connection with Joel an Ellie but the show seems to forget that and doesn't do it as well (with 4/9 eps diverting from Joel and Ellie), thus making the ending less impactful
Almost like games cant expand on the other characters like a tv show can because its through the pov of the player, a tv show of just 9 eps of elie and joel crossing the country doing the same thing every everywhere they go would get repetitive and boring
Which 4 episodes?? All I can remember actually "diverting" are episode 3 and 7....Rest all are pretty much focused on Joel and Ellie.
Me and my friend did notice the pattern of a very active and emotionally intense episode, followed by a slower, but largely character-building episode the next week and so on throughout the entire season. Not that it was horrendous pacing, but as an og fan of the game it does feel rushed.
I think they tried to give breathers and processing time between the emotional beats, but it doesn't work as well in the as in the game because the show can't slow down and sit in a moment like the game. A lot of subtle character building in the game happens as players are directing the characters across locations, and travelling at their own pace. This allows for way more autonomy over the story, something the audience of the show has 0 control over. Being limited to a set of episodes led them to sacrifice a lot of those smaller character moments that really solidified their relationship and so many gaps are missing.
I think they made a mistake by cutting/altering the fight Joel and Ellie have over her using the gun to save Joel.
It was such a significant moment because you see Joel is fighting giving her any praise because he doesn't want to get attached nor show Ellie that he is. He is in that gruff, defensive old man mode and it continues to cause strife between them. Then, he realises this and actually decides to open up to her by affirming "It was me or him", and this is where they both know that he's grown a soft spot for her.
"autonomy over the story" is a great way of putting it. It just seems like the subtle character building is impossible to adapt into a non-interactive medium.
This is a matter of taste. The expansion and additional writing filled out the show and set up a future for the series. All the stories "independent" of the main duo thematically loop back to the story (not just the plot.)
keeping in mind i haven't finished the show yet, but i also have kept a critical eye on the show while watching-and i say this as someone really interested in how media translates (i love literature, writing, art, etc), and who wholeheartedly supports disloyal adaptations and the need for changes in media translation. and i think there's a lot that the show did right, and also a lot that i just felt the game did better as vacuum media, and then a fair amount that i thought the show just fell short of. i think there were problems in adaptations where they changed some of the characterization and relationships and that changes the entire pacing of the show compared to the game, which made it feel more rushed for me. also the show seems to spell things out a lot more for us, or narrate things, and i prefer subtlety. and i thought there were specific moments i could pick out that i could tell the blend of game into show was just pretty seamed. i also think the show does better small writing than big writing, while i didn't have a notable criticism of the game's writing.
The game's storytelling feels far more subtle. I prefer that version as well, although it's also very nice to see how they've expanded on some elements.
I agree with everything you said! The left behind episode was too long compared to the length of the season. My few nitpicks are that Tess dying like that was unnecessarily gross, the fungi guy kissing her?? Come on. Poor Tess. Also I feel like they wrote Ellie to be so edgy and almost mean? I have absolutely no issue with Bella Ramsey but the way they wrote the character is a bit off I think. Also the "I'm too old and weak to protect her" from Joel was kind of s strange choice. Also I feel like they left a lot of the gore out? Many scenes would have benefited from showing the audience how gruesome the world is. I also understand that too much of showing the violence makes its impact lesser.
thank you for making valid points and criticisms and not just hating to hate
I try my best! Thank you for watching!
I agree with just about everything that you said. The driving force for the whole game was the gradual build up of Joel and Ellie’s relationship. We didn’t get much of that, compared to the side characters and what was going on around them. I loved the show, and it was a very faithful adaptation. But it lacked in what I would consider the most important thing. Joel and Ellie. Also more infected would’ve been nice. They had ample opportunities to throw an infected scene in the final few episodes. You should do your longer essay. I’d be curious to see what you have to say.
Your points are all so on point lmao, but yeah everything you said especially about the ending falling flat is my exact feelings, I think it’s because they really chose for the show to be a fan service rather then a good show, they chose to make the main story whatever since it doesn’t have to impress those who already know it, and instead they made it interesting by expanding on All our unanswered questions
I whole heartedly agree with you that they didn't spend enough time focusing on the ever growing relationship between Joel and Ellie. Because that's what the main storyline of the game was about and why it was so successful. It's not so much a journey to get a cure, more a journey from abject devastation to finding hope and a warmth in your heart again.
They really needed to focus on that because like you said audience members watching a TV show don't get as emotionally involved as a gamer does controlling the action of the two main protagonists.
I also felt a few more fight scenes with Joel and Ellie taking on the infected should have been aired because that's another way that you see the two being pulled closer and closer, as they go through those experiences together, covering each others backs.
Like you I've enjoyed the series but it needed to be longer. The 'Left behind' episode was good, but totally in the wrong place, meaning that all the tension at the end of the previous episode was lost. It completely messed the continuity up of the story at that point.
Because there was only one episode left after Ellie dispatched David it all got rushed for me. Ellie being distant and quiet with Joel was of course natural after what she'd been through, but it created that distance between them again, even though it wasn't a personal thing.
Because of that they needed at least one more episode, if not two, in order to focus on how much closer Joel and Ellie had become and how much they meant to each other. Bringing them closer to each other again.They tried with the giraffe scene and Joel telling Ellie he'd got hope again because of her, but it all felt a bit rushed.
In the game because they'd spent so much time on that changing relationship you really felt that by the time they'd reached the fireflies and the hospital they'd become inseparable and that they'd literally die for each other, and because of that it really made the ending hit so much harder.
My only other issue is I wish they'd just left the two characters exactly as they were in the first game and not changed them. In other words don't make Ellie too tough, cold and streetwise when she was cocky, funny and vulnerable in the game and don't make Joel all weepy with Tommy and having panic attacks when he was cold, distant, but decisive in the game.
I hadn't considered that but it does feel very weird that we go from Joel being stabbed to a flashback episode to Ellie and David and then just to the end. Honestly, just a scene at the beginning of the ninth episode in which they process the events of the eighth episode would have been good. It does follow the plot beats of the game, but we really just needed more time with Joel and Ellie throughout.
Thanks for watching!
Ya they didn't need to change the characters. Eliie for a lot of it just came off as cold hearted and creepy. Whereas in the game she was a bit rough around the edges and wouldn't be pushed around, but inside had a caring heart that didn't want to see people hurt. But in an attempt to display character development within the show, to me she just came off as a brat who needed to be given a taste of reality.
To me, the first season should have been spent showing the time between Sarah's death and the introduction of Ellie. Show what Joel and Tommy did to survive during the collapse of society. Show the brutality of fedra and the birth of the fireflies. Knowing the world and the stakes and knowing exactly the kind of person Joel is would have had much more pay off when Ellie arrives and slowly breaks down his walls. Also, I know the show apparently had a huge budget, but apart from a few episodes, I didn't see where that money went to.
The money went to fake 6 star reviews and 10/10s on imdb
This show was g_y 🗑️
Also why race swap sarah
More checkbox ticking then grading a sat test
Where did you hear that it had huge budget?
@@0912sooliIt's in the top 20 most expensive tv/cable series. About $15 million per episode.
HBO is owned by Warner Brothers, a public company. Any public company has their financials available for review.
Part 1 works as well as it does because of how great Joel and Ellie were.
Everything about them is incredible, to include the acting and dialogue. They are extremely well crafted and the entire world is built around their interactions. In the show, they cared more about the world and some themes. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it misses what made the first game great and in the end it’s just a pretty good but not spectacular show.
Thank you for sharing this. It was exactly what I've been saying to my friends and during the week to week releases I was shocked to see that reviews for each episode were as high as they were. Glad to see a good and honest critique of the adaptation
Thank you for watching and the kind words!
Great essay. I made similar points about this. I care about the story so deeply, done first 5 times, including on Grounded mode, 2nd twice through and adored that too. I honestly just never warmed to Pedro/Bella like I did Troy/Ashley, it didn't feel like the chemistry was there, despite their best efforts. Look at the way Ashley Johnson looks at Troy Baker in interviews and you'll see what I mean, they're so in sync and it really made the original story fly for me. I say this even while totally appreciating and respecting the show and understanding why they dragged it in slightly different directions, it was a very good piece of television. I feel now like it just needed 15+ episodes if the intention was always there to deep dive on side characters, in ways I enjoyed them more than the leads. Bills episode was fully incredible, as was Henry's and David's. I also remember the scene with Ellie leaving Joel wounded and it almost trying to trick you into thinking she may leave him, when in the game it'd be completely out of the question by that point, you just knew how attached they were as the audience. Also Joel feels a lot weaker in the game, physically and emotionally, and I felt it really hurt his character. He forces Ellie to choose who to go with from Tommy's camp, even knowing she wanted to stay with him which is really cowardly, even if it is in self doubt more than selfishness, he puts her needs above his fears in the game for the most part and I think they missed an opportunity changing that moment from the game. Also his PTSD like flashes felt unnecessary, we know he's very damaged, it exaggerated his age for me and took away from the pillar he was as a lead in the game. I really don't think they gave enough opportunity to flesh out the building of the relationship on which the whole series is focused. It's like they went from odd couple to father daughter in 40 minutes and lost significant plausibility.
So, I agree with a lot of your complaints - however, I was at HBO for over 15 years- I worked on shows from the Wire, Sopranos, Deadwood etc. all the way thru season 1 of Westworld. A first season, especially of such an expensive show, is a GIANT financial bet - you're betting on the Showrunners, you're betting on the writing, the directors, the cast, the crew, the CGI folks, editors and the HBO folks shepherding the project along. Discovery wants return on their purchase of Time Warner and I guarantee you nobody can be sure of success until it airs and people's reactions to it. I think if they had more certainty, they'd have given enough $ for 12 episodes - with more expansion of characters and more fungal zombies to kill (not a lot more, but a few would have been nice). I saw many shows that I read the pilot script (True Detective season 1) and was blown away - it was the best I ever saw & I was convinced they had a hit - and then I saw the pilot script for the Leftovers and thought "meh, I don't get it" - only to now love it as an all time favorite. All that to say, as Studio executives, it's hard to know before you start shooting, what you've got - LoU had to be fantastically expensive with huge sets, tons of extras, heaps of apocalypse set dressing and tons of CGI - so you say "here's a bunch of $, go get em" and hope for a return of your investment. But you do limit it - notice episodes got leaner over time, felt rushed at the end - that's budget. LoU is a real hit for HBO, so I'd expect they'll trust everyone and Season 2 will be even better.
Its not very hard to tell TLOU show was gonna be a hit since the game was a masterpiece. They kinda dropped the ball with the show and everyone still considers it good. That's how good the game is. They didn't even do it justice and its STILL good. Joel and Ellie seemed way to rushed to be close to each other at all. Pedro doesn't do any of his own stunts in fighting or anything else so he is literally just a face in the show. Game is 10/10 but show is 5/10 which is still better than most shows.
Fair criticism. This is actually the exact type of thing I want MORE OF in TV. Streaming TV shows is the only audio visual medium where episodes can be standalone short films. I think this advantage is underutilized.
I don't really have a problem with fleshing out the side characters, to me it's wonderful world building. The issue comes from the show's runtime. It's not that too many episodes focus on other characters but there are too few episodes overall. If the show had a runtime of 12 episodes and the 3 we're missing all focused on just the struggles of Joel and Ellie it would make their journey feel as long as it actually is. Spacing out the encounters with others and giving more time to show how dangerous a dystopian world full of infected really is.
you’re so right. i was so surprised seeing that they made the last episode so short, because in the game there’s still quite some time in between david and the fireflies, but instead they just skipped right too it. i thought they were going to redeem themselves a bit by showing more joel ellie and infected for the last episode, before the fireflies.
i also wanted to say that i loved how they expanded on the side characters comparison to the game, but if you’re going to focus that much on them , you have to make up the joel and ellie time. it felt like they were replacing joel and ellie’s screen time just a bit to focus on the other characters. and so i think for the pacing between joel and ellie to be better they should’ve made the show like 10 episodes long.
The last couple of episodes dropped it from “I Adore this show” to “I really liked it”. You hit the nail on the head with the constant sidetracking with side characters. Another issue with the infecteds absence for me was a seeming decline in the tension of action scenes. The 8ths fight with David being the exception. I also personally wasn’t a huge fan of the way they did the hospital scene as what compelled me personally was how the game made me feel mad and ready to kill everybody which sets up the second games themes so beautifully. The montage just didn’t make me feel like that but that could definitely just be me
Hmm good point on the hospital scene. So much is riding on the player feeling like Joel in that moment and the show didn't nail that exactly. I think I was more caught up in the way that they display the bodies and show that Joel isn't "taking any prisoners". It's difficult to evaluate if the game's version is better because of us being able to control Joel in that moment or if it is better because there's just more carnage.
I think they set up the scene like that in the adaptation because they want to refer back to it in the second season.
Thanks for watching!
@@criticalcoffee the game vs show issue was definitely a factor there that lead me to my opinion. I was hoping for it to start in a John wick style fight where you’re enthralled by the badassery and but gets messier and messier and more and more brutal as Joel is giving his entiretyfor this fight. And hoped the way it is shot would slowly pull us out of Joel’s head. I also wanted it to be way longer
They definitely changed the overall emphasis of the hospital scene.
Both versions are good in my opinion. We play as Joel in the videogame, so it makes sense for the segment to feel as if we're in Joel's position, a father giving his all to not repeat a mistake. In the show, we witness Joel from an observer's perspective, so we witness Joel as he made a horrifying yet inevitable decision to save Ellie, like witnessing a tragedy or an accident without any control over what's happening
I never played the game, and this video is 100% the view that I had on the show. I’ve seen nothing but glowingly positive views on the show, and the whole time I’ve been like “yea it was a good show, but I’m not understanding the level of hype that this is getting”. I mean the obvious comparison everyone wants to make is to the walking dead and how much faster paced this is to that show. My response to that is 1. They’re from 2 different eras of TV 2. Slowing down the pacing of the last of us (not as slow as TWD is at some points) would have really helped this show
Wish they kept the Bill and Ellie banter. Also wish they had David and Ellie fight off infected.
After the David episode I wanted to see some growth in their relationship by showing them working together vs other humans and zombies like in the game.
It was pretty much just a tough road trip. Other than David, nothing that would make me believe that they are now bonded for life
My only real problem with the show is the lack of time we get with Joel and Ellie. The game takes 14-20 hours to beat and in this show it’s only 9 one hour episodes. So with the bill and frank episode and the Ellie and Riley episode takes that down to 7 not including the first episode where Joel and Ellie don’t meet till the end of episode 1. We just don’t get enough time with them for their relationship to seem real. Yeah it’s a few weeks or months between episodes but we don’t see that progress it just suddenly they go from hating each other to loving each other. You see and feel their relationship develop in the game so much better than the show.
The show was as fleshed out as it could have been with the resource limitations of this type of media adaptation (game to film). Just as from novel to film, there is only so much ground that can be covered when condensing a 15 hour experience to a season of television while also expanding.
While I agree with your points and the fact that the show on its own falls short because it ends up feeling thin: as a fan of the game, the expansion of the universe was more than satisfactory. The show works best as a complimentary piece to this universe and i’m excited to see what they do with the next chapter(s).
I really do like that we get more. It just feels like something was lost in the adaptation process. I note many times that the third episode is better than the game in many ways as we also got the good side off Bill and Frank's relationship. It's so important and makes their deaths more impactful.
Maybe one day I'll feel the same way. It's a whole other thing that I can accept on its own terms. Time will tell.
Thanks for watching!
Well thought out essay. My only complaint is that the no spore thing and hive mind work well. If spores were airborne the world would not survive at all. No one would be here.
The hive mind works for the whole stepping on the fungi. Mycelium in real life connects all the green in a forest. In this world it works because the mycelium will target your direct location.
The changes were necessary to make it as realistic as possible and have interesting suspense in the story.
Thanks! I agree with the spore change. It wouldn't be as entertaining if the actors were wearing gas masks any time there were infected. However, the hivemind thing is brought up in episode 2, utilized only once in the same episode and then forgotten completely. The later time that they are killed, they really don't react like they do in the second episode.
The show doesn’t hit as hard as the game does purely because there isn’t much of a lurking danger to come and kill Joel or Ellie as there is in the game. The last 5 or 4 episodes don’t even have infected in it which is ok, but where is the threat that is going after these characters we love? Even Bill and Frank’s episode had more danger in it than most of the show. I think that’s why most of the game fans don’t like the show is because Joel doesn’t have plot armor but he really doesn’t have much to fight other than The clickers, David, and I guess the fireflies? The only time we see someone competently hurt Joel is when that kid comes up from behind him and Ellie has to “save” him. Other than that, the fireflies don’t even feel like they are trying to fight back, it’s lacking the difficulty that it had in the game where Joel could die at any moment.
6:06 i really liked the kansas city episode because i think it plays on the second game’s narrative of the cycle of violence. through kathleen and her cynical villainy, joel (and more importantly) ellie are explicitly and violently shown what the costs of getting your revenge in blood are. but wow fantastic analysis!!
usually when it comes to video essays I disagree with, they very often find a way to make themselves very irritating for anyone who doesn't agree with it, but this is a great video. would highly suggest you make your 12 page nitpicky essay a thing.
Thank you for the kind words and watching!
Same, I would love the 12-page nitpicky essay too!
I would love to see more TLOU content if you made it! I haven’t played the game but almost everything you said was a flaw for me as well. As someone unfamiliar with the game, the problem with the “introduce/kill off new characters + long flashbacks” story structure is that it made me more interested in the side characters than Joel and Ellie. And those episodes would always end with a feeling of forward progression in Joel and Ellie’s relationship which DID interest me, but we spent so little time digging into their relationship that the next time we’d get a new side character or a flashback that the show spent a lot of time with, I’d end up more interested in that again. It’s not that I’m uninterested in Joel and Ellie, but it feels like the writers are relying a bit on audiences already being invested as a result of playing the game. The way the side characters were written felt like an amazing complement to the story but I wish we had a longer season so we could’ve given Joel and Ellie’s relationship more focus.
Also, side note, it really bothers me how much handholding Mazin and Druckman did in their podcast because it feels like they had so little faith in their audiences that they had to TELL us how to interpret the show, and it’s frustrating because I think I would’ve found Joel/Ellie more interesting if I had an organic experience of watching their journey.) And because I just came at it cold, a lot of it didn’t land for me. Although from the spoilers I already know of the second game (god damn, Mazin and Druckman spoiled so much in their podcast!), I think this season will be very rewatchable.
I for the most part enjoyed the show but I also agree it wasn't from perfect. As a massive fan of the game series, I am in the unfortunate position of being able to point out everything good that was missing in the series. I think my biggest issue is one of the things you talked about that being the pacing of the show. I think limiting it to 9 episodes was a huge mistake, especially with the timeline they planned to use. The fact the preoutbreak and summer season takes up the first 5 episodes of the show was a bad pacing decision, as it left only 4 episodes for the fall, winter, and spring season plus the expansion, one per episode. While I understand the summer season was the longest in the game it was not over half of it and it really took away from what they could put in the remaining half.
Episode 8 in my opinion was the biggest example of a rushed timeframe due to this. In the game, the winter season is probably one of the most stressful as you are put in the perspective of Ellie as you fight against enemies way stronger than you in a cat-and-mouse game that lasts hours until a final climax where you fight David, and are finally reunited with Joel. The moment is probably one of the most emotional in the entire game as after hours of struggle you finally beat all odds and are safe in Joel's arms. In the show everything happens so much faster, with the entire episode lasting I think 50 minutes you really aren't given much time to build up any suspense or stress, everything just jumps from one event to another. You almost immediately find out that David is probably not looking to be besties and is part of the group that attacked Joel, Ellie is captured minutes into the pursuit, Ellie escapes not long after her capture, and David is killed just after her escape. All this leaves the final moment far less satisfying than in the game, they are also missing another key element Ill get to, but in the show when Joel and Ellie reunite its kind of seemed easy like there was very little struggle for either character to reach that point. There are more examples of this in other episodes but episode 8 was the greatest offender.
Another issue was the general lack of application of a soundtrack to follow serious moments throughout the show. In the game, the music is in every scene and it hits you hard, in the show they made the music more as background for shots of Joel and Ellie traveling. There were a few times like in episode 9 with Joel in the hospital, but for most important scenes, like when Joel and Ellie reunite in episode 8, or Joel collapses in Episode 6 or when Sam and Henry die there is no music before and during, only sometimes after. There is an emptiness that can be achieved by complete silence but I don't feel it in the scenes provided. I've watched edits where the HBO show is intertwined with the music that played during the game at that point and the scenes hit 10x harder. The last of Us would not be nearly the same without its soundtrack and I was hugely disappointed with its underutilization. I really hope in season 2 they change this, but I have a feeling that its just not Craig's style for a soundtrack to play this role so I'm skeptical.
I also believe there was too little Joel and Ellie throughout the runtime of the season, while I did like episodes 3 and 7 they did not have a place in a series this short, they definitely could have been integrated better and played alongside the main story then separately. Like could you imagine if Ellie met Bill and Frank, Bill would be so comprehensive of letting a child roam around his village while frank would be so caring kind of like Maria just as a homosexual uncle figure instead of a Mother figure. Or what if during the left behind episode spliced between moments of Ellie and Reily we saw Ellie desperately gathering supplies and bringing them back to Joel trying her best to save him which, could have shown a stark contrast between her succeeding in saving Joel where else in the end of the episode she failed to save Reily. Overall I just didn't get the same connection or attachment to the characters as I got from the game, and it sucks because I believe Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey are both talented and could have done it better if they were given the chance. Especially after watching their interviews together, they are so cute why wasn't it like this in the show. If Ashley Johnson and Troy Baker both looked at them and believed with their hearts they were Joel and Ellie why didn't I get the same experience, what were I missing that could have been. Maybe I'll get to see it in season 2, I just really hope they don't kill Joel off too fast since they are doing 2 seasons for the second game which leaves a lot of room for slowing things down.
In conclusion, the show was decent, and while I did talk a lot of negatives here I do believe it held a lot of value, especially for people who have played the main game, do I think it is one of the best shows of all time? No probably not, but was it better than the manufactured garbage that's mostly coming out now? Yeah that's for sure.
OH and episode 9 was just perfect like omg I was quite underwhelmed with the show as a whole and then they finish like that, like damn Craig, you really know how to finish strong!
Edit:
Forgot to mention the fact in episode 8 Pedro pascal didn't fight Troy Baker was probably the biggest disappointment I had since it would have been the perfect easter egg for people who played the game and would have been Ironic as hell. Or if they wanted to take it even further what I was thinking they could have done is have Troy as one of the guys Joel tortures for information and after kills him with a golf club just for extra irony points
I didn't spot the differences in the use of the soundtrack, but I'll definitely make a note of it the next time I watch the show. Good point!
And yea, they definitely need to add more Joel and Ellie before the golfing in the next season. We don't get the bond between the two from the first season so the whole basis of the second season (Ellie feels bad about not spending more time with Joel) isn't there.
As someone who did not play the game and did not know the story, I had the same reaction. I felt like the show did an inadequate job of building up the relationship between Joel and Ellie. I think it would have been a better show if they had focused more on their relationship, even if it meant some deviation from the game story. Having said that, it wasn’t a bad show. I still enjoyed it. I just feel like it could have been better than it was. I understand that Joel goes away early in the second game and I think that if they just move on to the second game story and Pedro Pascal is gone after the first episode, the show may lose a lot of viewers, particularly if Ellie has to be replaced with an older actress.
I haven't played the game, so I come at this opinion from a different place than you have. After Episode 8 I decided to watch the cut scene movie from the game in order to familiarize myself with the narrative it presents and how close does this adaptation follow it before the conclusion of Episode 9. First, I feel 2 or 3 more episodes should have been made. This would have allowed for more character development to the side characters and understanding of how they got to their point of power or survival in the story. Seeing how the game didn't have any narrative on Kathleen a further episode on her rise would have added something missing from how humanity is surviving in these tough times. I feel there are 3 main narratives happening here; the different solutions to surviving as seen in FEDRA, Kathleen, Bill and Frank and the others, the development of new feelings/ existence-reasons of Joel and the growth to Ellie as she comes face to face with her needs to survive in the wilds of the world and not the wilds of FEDRA school. I feel the adaptation showed her change from troubled student to David face mutilator in a much clearer fashion. Then again, it could have just been Bella Ramsey doing such a superbly nuanced performance of this. Second, playing the game creates a connection to characters that no adaptation can replicate, as is true with reading the novel a film is based on would do. Not playing the game allowed me a blank slate on which to build upon. I enjoyed the watch and think I may need to play the game once it comes out later this month for PC.
Great video! I agree. Having played the game and knowing what to expect, I felt the show was great but didn't hit as hard, a big part of that is things seems to move very quickly, almost rushed with Joel and Ellie in the show vs the game.
Well I humbly disagree with all of you, I think this is the best we could have gotten, I really think they nailed it.
I'm glad you liked it!
They filmed it during COVID. That's why a lot of the scenes were only a handful of people, that's why only 9 episodes, I think they did amazing all things considered.
Your mum was filmed during covid
Great commentary. I was not familiar with the game and so came to the adaptation fresh. I enjoyed the first three episodes but then became very disappointed with the writing as it moved forward. I had trouble articulating to myself what exactly it was, but your video essay did a great job of that. I could not agree more with your criticisms. Would love to see the nitpicky longer version, too. Keep going!
I really enjoyed the show (coming from someone who enjoyed the game)
But I think one of the flaws of the show was that they took interesting stories from the side characters, made an episode on each of those stories but forgot that as a series, the episodes are disconnected from the lack of interactions between Ellie and Joel. I started looking forward to the stories of the side characters more than when we have to go back to seeing Ellie and Joel travel.
As someone who's played the games, the show is just fine. I like it expanding the world rather then just focusing on Joel and Ellie (especially the Bill and Frank episode, nearly cried). I can see it being a mixed bag tho for anyone who didn't play/watch the games.
The main reason why the Last of Us video game story was so good was because of the relation between Joel and Ellie. If that is what is the biggest flaw in the adaptation then it is without a doubt a failed adaptation. Calling it the best video game adaptation every only implies that video game adaptations have a really low bar.
Totally agree with you. I did enjoy the show but I didn't feel the connection between joel and ellie that I got from the game. It makes me feel like the second season events won't have as great of an impact as they should.
For me, the budget, or lack there of, was responsible for the show’s shortcomings.
Too few infected, lack of time to develop the key relationship, and rushed storylines in multiple episodes.
I can understand HBO being cautious with a VG adaption. But compressing the first game into 9 episodes left too much out. And doing it on the cheap left out even more.
On another note; I was terribly disappointed they chose to expand some characters but Ish’s story was cut down to a single drawing.
I agree, it is unquestionably the best VG adaption ever made. But the potential was there for it to be even better.
I agree with you on the lack of infected and I really enjoyed the show. I do however think that side characters like bill and frank, Sam and Henry weren't as much expanded on but changed. For example in the game frank hated bill to the point his last written words were that dying was better than being with him. Also in the game Sam and Henry were part of a bigger group passing through Pittsburgh and got ambushed by the raiders. I don't have an issue that they did this but I don't think it's fair to say they were expanded upon ass much as changed to portray the story they want to tell.
I never played the game but I had similar thoughts to yours, so I don't think these complaints are just from people who played the game. Show overall was good, but not great. Main complaints were that it felt rushed, disjointed. I think the show needed about 20% more meat to it.
Great to get this perspective as well!
Honestly, the pacing is all over the place. Sometimes episodes feel rushed and other times it feels like it's taking forever to progress.
The characters while played by the actors well; were an inferior version of their game counterparts (tommy being far from what he was in the game as a leader everyone can look up to)
really loved the video! so insightful and you captured how I felt really well. I think it’s just a lot of pacing issues. they wanted to please the gamers but also keep the story flowing, and it ended up being really great, but with issues that did affect it from being perfect. great video, subbed!!
Thank you so much for watching!
Best part of the show was John Hannah at the begining. Sets the doom perfectly. The show let him down thereafter imo. Best video game adaptation is definitely Mortal Kombat form the 90s imo!
Well thought out and well presented. Keep it up.
Thank you!
I'm really hoping that season 2 isn't TLOU Part 2. We need more of Joel & Ellie because, frankly, based on episode 7, Bella Ramsey can't carry a show yet.
The biggest flaw is Pedro pascal didn’t use a Texan accent
The worst episode by far is Left Behind….the Riley flashback that we didn’t need and could have spent more time with our two main characters……I felt like I was watching Degrassi
Having played the game, I loved the back stories. I think they were mainly for people who didn't know the story and it replaced a lot of the game play. Overall I think they did a brilliant job of adapting the game. I had a little less sympathy for Joel at the end than I did playing the game though strangely.
Because the show made him out to be some degenerate who goes crazy. In the game you are Joel. It’s personal.
To be honest watching the series is just like Watching a full summary of the game. People just don't want to accept that lot's of content from the game was cut on the show which literally make the show just an average series.
Seriously they got me with the first half of the series because of the expansion and fleshed out characters but the actual theme of the game was not present in the series which is the zombie apocalypse and the dark side of humanity. I agree of what you said about the hivemind concept which was never elaborated on the show.
I don't have a problem with episode 4 but episode 5 is a little bit off because the the new characters that we don't really care about.
And for episode 8 seriously I think it's better if they made David as who he is in the game rather than being a preacher with a cult which was already used multiple times on this kind of horror genre. Anyway hope season 2 will be more expanded and explained well.
I thought they rushed Ellie and Joels relationship which is the most important thing about the TLOU story. Like when I sit down and think about it, I feel like Ellie and Joel were not very fleshed out in their relationship, and this (for me) really devalues the emotional moments in the show where they try to show how much they’ve bonded. For example, the giraffe scene, post-david fight, etc. I think they either should've added 2-3 more episodes that are Joel and Ellie-Centered, or make episodes 3 & 7 into Joel and Ellie episodes.
I definitely feel ya man, the repetitiveness was a bit much. Aside from the Bill and Frank episode, which I thought gave justice to Bill both in perspective and closure, every other episode just seemed to view all side characters as meaningless annoyances. If nothing else, choosing to let some of these characters live could of brought new ideas into not just later Seasons but also ideas for the 3rd Part of the Video game, plus it would of brought more intrigue and dialogue. And what the heck man, there could of been a little more interaction with the infected than what was offered!!! What was shown made it feel that it wasn't that big of a catastrophe, or at best, more of an isolated incident confined to the more urban settings. I get they want to highlight the 'Love' factor since they compound and harp on that note hard especially during the first 4 episodes but there's more to this story than emotions. And the "Rushed" aspect was especially significant with the last two episodes, which seemed back when they were filming that maybe they thought it wouldn't of made it that far so they opted to condense so much into 45 minutes because if it did go bunk they didn't want to spend any more than necessary. Well, I hope with the success that it has made will bring an absolute banger into Season 2 with more thought and "Love" into the episodes, and for Pete's sake give us more interaction with the infected!!!
I've never played the game. From that perspective, I enjoyed the series so far. But, as another commenter eluded to, I'm watching a show about a guy transporting a girl across country, in a world overcome by a weird fungus plague. I'm not watching a drama. There is a fine line. Some back story is necessary, and useful. But i don't want another walking dead (which I did enjoy for a while, until it became a drama). So far, that line has been walked very closely.
Just out of curiosity, if it isn't drama, then what do you see it as? Not trying to start anything, I'm just genuinely curious
@@criticalcoffee i see it as “a tribute to the game” but not enough time to truly flesh out the story. I think for the first iteration of this game its ok. With the talent from Chernobyl they can build off of this with new stories. How about a standalone show of Tess, Marlene, the fireflies. Oh course they need to finish part two but rough start was worth it.
@@criticalcoffee i tend to equate a drama with interpersonal conflicts, secrets, etc. Whereas, this show spent much time on social dynamic, revealing what it's like outside the camps, the infected, etc. and less time on this or that person's personal trauma. There is some, but imo it was nicely balanced. In contrast, the early years of twd were entertaining. But later there was way too much focus on personal trauma/experience.
13:37 I actually think it is a problem because it makes the urgent necessity for a cure something... not so urgent. Cordyceps doesn't pose a huge threat as it looks like people have been thriving relatively well, like the ending of a pandemic. The weight for a cure feels kinda stupid, imo.
I think the reason they’re spending so much time on characters that aren’t Joel and Ellie is to make Abby’s story feel more fluid in Season 2 and not just interjected into the story
It'll be very interesting to see how they adapt the second season.
Great essay, in my opinion, regarding the "Halt episodes", even though, they felt disconnected from the main journey, I don't think they were near to pointless, because without them, Ellie and Joel would be extremely lucky.
Every character introduced has a backstory that explains why they help Joel and Ellie. I feel like these backstories contribute with the journey, and how it develops, because without them, we would not know why a character would help them, and it would feel forced. Ellie's backstory is no different, part of the reason she stays for Joel when he gets stabbed and tells her to go is because she recalls Riley and then decides to stay, to not leave him behind we can see this at the end of said episode, right when she was about to cross the door.
Although introducing characters and seeing them die may seem repetitive, I do think each death teaches us and the characters different lessons, which ultimately contribute to the decisions taken by the characters, however, it would take a longer commentary to explain the ways each of the deaths contribute, but as an example, Frank dying and changing Bill in a way that he now feels like sharing his goods with people he met
As for Kathleen, the only reason we could think of to justify her just standing instead of shooting is constantly thinking on what her brother would've liked and the fact that Sam is with Henry, but the character itself does not seem empathetic towards other characters which contradicts it so much, not much to say about it.
Oh the side characters definitely do serve a purpose! Hopefully I didn't imply something like that. My problem stems more from the fact that those plotlines draw attention away from the main focus of the narrative (that being Joel and Ellie's bond becoming stronger though hardships culminating at the end when Joel goes ballistic and lies to Ellie about what actually happened).
I really like the interpretation that Kathleen hesitates because she recognizes that she is doing a horrible thing. Something her brother wouldn't want her to do. I didn't get that sense while watching the show, and I don't know how they could have emphasized that better. A lot is riding on the performance. It just kinda feels bizarre that it happens twice in such a short amount of time.
Also the "kids die all the time" thing just feels _so evil_. I know it's drawing attention to Joel's decision in the end, but it felt just kinda clumsy. The infected just happen to pop out of that spot. Kansas City raiders are just distracted enough that the crew can get away. Kathleen finds JUST THE RIGHT TIME to confront the crew, only to be attacked by the infected. Idk, it just seems convenient all around in a "lol I guess we have to figure out a way that Ellie doesn't get shot in this scene" kind of way.
Great review! I would add two key aspects that also detract from the narrative and relate to the bad pacing:
1. The framing: this means the manner in which information is presented actually influences our attitudes and decision making. Take a look at Joel throughout the series; I think that one of the reasons of struggling to connect with the bond between Joel and Ellie is because of the way that the former is framed. They subtly present him in a demeaning light to make the ending less ambiguous. I suspect this has to do with an attempt to try to make the story fit better with the second part of the game. Even in the podcast despite Mazin saying the opposite, you’ll find out that they contradict what they say and firmly believe Joel was in the wrong instead of presenting it in an ambiguous way and letting the spectator decide. That in combination with the lack of run time dedicated to Joel and Ellie makes it fall flat.
2. The world building: while the Bill and Frank episode was a great story, it actually does a disservice to the narrative because it places little to no thought on the pacing and world building. They present a utopia that doesn’t hold up the more one thinks about it after watching it. This is often repeated throughout all 9 episodes, and the lack of infected is actually included here. They tried to set the story apart so much that ended up removing any sense of sudden danger.
In the end I think the flaws might be explained because it seems no one challenged Mazin and Druckmann’s ideas. They became friends which is nice and all, but that very bias ended up hurting the quality of the series.
While the show is enjoyable, is nowhere near close to Chernobyl or other prime HBO shows.
It’s a pilot season, they’re character n world building. All the characters revolve around Joel n Ellie. I do not want EVERYTHING being about them. The theme is how scary Love is, bc it results in loss. A common literary theme. Just like the game, the infected aren’t the horror, protecting Love is.
I love the concept of a 'pilot season'. Yeah, we're actually just going to drag our feet for 10 hours and then the show begins. While there are numerous other shows that are fire from the beginning. First impressions are incredibly important.
Would my implementations take away from the theme of love being scary? Not really. In fact I think the show being about its protagonists would probably make it more accessible and not feel so disjointed.
If you want to do a show about this world (e.g. World War Z, the book, not the movie) then do that. There's nothing stopping you from doing that.
There's no denying that the focus of the show is supposed to be Joel and Ellie. They're in every episode, the narrative begins with Joel and Sarah and it ends with Joel and Ellie. I'm not asking that they're in every scene and that every time that they're not on screen somebody should ask "gee, golly, where did Joel and Ellie go?" Of course not.
What I am asking is the narrative to focus on the characters that they've established as important. Ellie is a POTENTIAL CURE for the entire world. The thing that Joel "wants" is to deliver Ellie to the fireflies, and the thing that "needs" is to face the trauma of losing his daughter. If the viewer's focus is constantly pulled away from this character arc, then the show doesn't land it's final punch of Joel lying to Ellie.
Also the infected ARE actually a source of horror in the show. The cold opens of episodes 1 and 2 make that very, very clear by leaning on body horror.
I think too many people were expecting a show that was specifically meant for the video game fans. There's nods and winks here and there, but the storyline doesn't do that. It's not just a video game adaptation to the writers, it's like any other post apocalyptic series. I didn't know the game beyond a few key points in the story, but learning more about the game framed the show more negatively for me because then I had that expectation. The pacing works best if you go without the shadow of the game and sit with the storytelling elements rather than the plot points. Ellie and Riley's stories were meant to reveal key elements to the world building including how the youth sees their society and how they react to larger organization like Fedra and the Fireflies and I like how they take the time to build on it for viewers who are new to the story.
The show is rushed and not as immersive as the game. The season should have been 13 episodes. There were 12 chapters in the game and one DLC.
Episode 3 entirely wastes time focusing on Bull instead of Ellie and Joel’s character development.
Imo the story should have been told chronologically. The first episode should have chronologically showed the events of the outbreak and Joel and Ellie’s origin in the outbreak.
@@petermj1098 Again you’re just comparing it to the game
@@DarkEclipce Because it is the source material. The show is very unclear what this story is actually about wasting time focusing on side characters. The game is clear it is about Joel and Ellie’s relationship and lives.
@@petermj1098 but that’s the problem. A tv show and a video game are very different experiences. The immersive-ness of the video game comes from when you play as the characters and walk in their shoes. For the show the immersive-ness comes from getting to know the world and the characters. You have to meet them where they’re at instead of trying to make it what it can never be.
@@DarkEclipce This is HBO that made Game of Thrones that combined action pieces as much as human interactions. They are just being lazy with the production. Like two former Game of Thrones actors are the main stars of the show. HBO watchers who didn’t play the game would assume it would have a scale similar to Game of Thrones.
Great to see some well-scripted critism on the show! I've tried to word my frustrations with the writing/pacing/etc but I fear it comes off as bashing when I don't mean it to be. I've had very bad experiences with show-only fans being super defensive and not being open to any criticism about the show so its really jarring to see this comment section be so civil lol. Regardless, you put a lot of my feelings of the show into words.
I would've loved to see maybe an extra episode, with a show original min-plot that is just Joel and Ellie. I kept feeling like the momentum the show did such a great job of building up was never really followed up on in the next episode. It never keeps momentum going because of those 'Halt' episodes as you perfectly described them. As good as those aside episodes were, they really did draw a lot of attention away from Joel and Ellie's building dynamic, leaving us with long gaps of time away from our leads*. Of course in the game you get to spend long stretches of time just with Joel and Ellie (mostly gameplay with some dialogue interatcions sprinkled in) but the show replaces that spare time with other character's stories. I could see how that would make sense on paper as a writer, giving that time to building other character's stories, but in execution we have the hindsight of seeing some of that spare time needed to be given to Joel and Ellie. Their most vital plot moments were doing all the heavy lifting when they really could've used that extra time to build more foundation.
Thanks for watching and the kind words. I think one episode more would have definitely helped. Or maybe that's too simple of an answer. It's clear that the focus of the show was the world rather than the "journey". I don't know if one episode with just Joel and Ellie would fix that. Idk it's tough.
I agree. Great adaptation and because of the link with the game it felt as enjoyable and engaging as those top tier shows you mentioned. But just as a show it's probably slightly below.
Tbh, I Feel like the Bill and Frank episode was so beautiful that it singlehandedly made the show worth it. I mean, we HAVE Joel and Ellie and every else and their story in the game. I loved playing the game and Joel and Ellie story is told perfectly. I love this Joel and Ellie so much, Bella and Pedro are perfect. But we have that story already. Don't get me wrong, their story is amazing. Just Bill and Frank was such a masterpiece of love and the acting was incredible. The acting is incredible in the show,but this was just a tiny bit above par in my mind.
I can't stand the "this story is about the characters" anymore, what story isn't about the characters? The infected are mainly the reason of why the characters are the way they are, if your story about a zombie apocalypse is gonna ignore the rules that you set about them, then maybe you should focus on writing a different story. I hope they fix the lack of sense of danger from the infection in season two.
I honestly think they should have made the entire first game 2 seasons so it didn't feel as rushed. Maybe end season one with Sam & Henry's death. That would have given us more time with the characters up to that point. I still loved the series though.
FREEZE FRAME!! Great critique
(this was my "can I try to be Alt Shift X" video)
Thanks for watching!
⏸️ 😚
The "disjointed storytelling" as you put it wasn't really the problem. It gave us great storylines that were more compelling than the journey of Ellie and Joel. The problem was they abandoned that style to set up a rushed finale in the hospital.
In another timeline, assuming we would only get 9 eps again, I would either have sacrificed the bombastic, natural ending at the hospital for more of the world and characters to be fleshed out, OR a more fitting idea would be an extra long final episode that ends with the hospital.
As a non-player of the games, I loved every episode except the finale. As a whole, the only things I would have changed about the show on would be the overuse of tropes, particularly the phantom bites and the surprise attacks. I lost count of the phantom bites count, but after Riley and Ellie both got one i became more aware of it, then of course we had to see Ellie's mom get a phantom bite the final ep. The surprise attacks are expected since it probably happens in the game a lot, but soooo many of them are used to force us into a new plot point, and I started to question how good at being in this world Joel really was since they kept getting surprised so often.
But what are you going to show instead Joel and Ellie sneaking through areas killing guys for 3 episodes?
I agree the Joel/Ellie relationship fell flat in the show by the end in compared to the game, so much of that time we spent with them was lost
This is the best videogame adaptation ever made. But what's crazy is, *it could have been even better.* I agree, it's still not on the level of HBO's best, and I think the flaws stand out, because:
1) they were unnecessary.
and 2) they were avoidable.
It's clear to me the change to the fungus was only an excuse to set up that weird kiss for Tess. It literally never factored into anything ever again. This is what I mean. Riley's Left Behind DLC is a tiny fraction of backstory, it's not meant to take up a large chunk of the plot. Craig and Neil could take as many episodes as they needed to tell this story, so the weird pacing of the series is no fault but their own. They were so eager to expand on the world of The Last of Us, that the core relationship took a back seat. How does that happen? Sure, we don't get enough time to flesh Kathleen out, but also, she shouldn't even be here, she's redundant because David is going to be the same but better, and parts like that could have been best spent on more bonding between Joel and Ellie.
When episode 6 happens and they have their big fight, it's more than halfway through the season. Ellie decrying that Joel is the only one who hasn't left her rings hollow because we just haven't seen them together. It's the same with the plight of The Fireflies. We just haven't seen enough of the infected, for humanity's desperation for the cure to carry much weight. We've got several episodes of people managing the post apocalypse just fine because there are no threats! (This is probably the most damning criticism of episode 3 I can muster, because in isolation, it's the best entry of the season). This was a great show, but it had missed opportunities.
Really excited to actually watch the show for myself. I only ever watched a letsplay of the game so im inrerested to compare the two and see how they'd feel from that perspective.
I think it would have been fine to have more languorous scene chewing. This is a simultaneously grotesque and beautiful post apocalypse and there’s no real rush in the overall plot. Could have taken a page from Call Me By Your Name or 28 Days Later in this regard. Some story beats obviously are punctuated with urgency but most of it doesn’t need to be rushed and as a result there’s something immersion breaking about a constant sense of urgency when the narrative itself doesn’t necessitate that urgency. This leaves only the people who are making the thing were being rushed, and so it’s a little immersion breaking because you just intuitively sense this alien urgency arises from within our own world.
Good Analysis and I generally agree with the exception of the last episode. My least favourite episodes were 5 and 4. I agree the Kathleen character failed as she didn't feel real for all the effort they made to humanize her. It generally felt rushed. I really felt it fumbled on the last episode. In sharp contrast to episode 8, it felt like a low energy version of what is in the game, and Joel's actions felt more cold blooded and homicidal. For me that is a huge deal since it undermines season 2 if they are going to follow the same story as the second game.
Big game lover here. I had really high expectations for the show and overall I think the adaptation was really well made BUT... there's something lacking on the TV show because it never hooked me 100% and didn't feel tottally imersed on the Apocalyptic world. I just kept watching it every sunday because I'm a big fan of TLOU .
For me the 2 main flaws are:
1 - Everything looked rushed. Not enough time to develop the characters and the adventure. Never truly bonded with the characters. For example, when Tess dies. I had 0 emotion with her death. As well with the cannibals, did not creeped me at all. Personally I think they could have made the 1st game in 2 seasons at least.
2 - The lack of pure and raw violence like we see in the games. With that comes the lack of infected as well.
Maybe I'm hard to please but the TV show is far from being one of the best like many people say. Really happy that they staied truthfull to the source material because most adaptations are ruined because of getting away from the original. Not this One. As well, my favourite parts of the TV show are the extra content that they made like the intro from the 1st episode and the jakarta part.
Hoping that, after a rushed 1st season, they improve with the critiques and I think that after finishing already with the plot of the 1st game they can get creative with the story. There's still huge potencial for the TV show if they make it right.
TLOU 2 game has big flaws so that leaves space creative writing for the upcoming seasons.
I rate the TV show 7/10 overall.
The TLOU first game... Still one of my favourite story telling video games ever.
Sorry for my bad english😅
its easy for this show to be good. the original story in the game was very flushed out for a game so i didnt expect it to be bad. but .... they definitely could have sone a better job. the lack of infected was a real let sown for me.
Ellie bit David and told him that he is infected so maybe he believes her and that explains why he going to hunt her down and ... even though the building is on fire
13:09 this was implied in the game as a letter from Ellie’s mom
I haven't played the game (maybe I will in the future) and disagree with some of your points.
1. Cathrine monologuing made sense. Her goal wasn't for Henry to be dead, but to kill him herself to get revenge and closure over he brother. A quick headshot wouldn't have satisfied her grief, she needed to draw it out.
2. We have to get the entire backstory of Joel and Elli before the end with the fireflies, otherwise the ending just wouldn't have hit. Also the abrupt ending of the show wouldn't have the same effect if you could indulge in extra episodes afterwards.
3. Elli's background story is no filler episode at all. It's literally about the main character and answered quite a bit of important questions about her. It also serves to build tension since you're not gonna know if Joel's gonna be alright.
4. Flashing out the single episode characters works great imo, since their characterization automatically tells us more about Joel and Elli. And you need a bit more action and variety in an TV show since it's not interactive like a video game is.
"Elli's background story is no filler episode at all"
Point me towards the moment where I said that this episode was filler.
I think as someone who has never played the games, the only episode where I really felt like my time was wasted was with the flashback episode with Ellie and that other girl. It felt *way* too long.
I DEMAND the nitpicky essay!
The biggest flaw is that the infected have a story to tell. This show wanted so badly to make the infected unimportant but they really are. They spent so much time telling side stories. They forgot the third main character, protagonist just as much as Joel and Ellie, the infected.
Yes!
interesting critique. first one that I don't have a counter to, and one that I'm interested in hearing elaborated. What aspects of the infected do you think were left out? and in what ways do you think the infected could have been fleshed out?
Lmfao shut up. This is exactly what TWD did and that's why that show is shit
@@reynemanzano maybe how did cordyceps evolve into this hivemind system? Maybe answer sam's question : If people are still conscious after being infected? And I guess there just wasn't enough chaos caused by infected. They didn't feel that chaotic although they're super dangerous
@@reynemanzano In a world called the Last of Us, the infected have won. They are the main protagonist. In the game each cringy ass click lets you know danger is ahead but also game play, the fun and tension that drive the story, and the thing that bonds Ellie and Joel. By minimizing infected so drastically from the game, they destroy the rationale for all of our other characters motivations. You can’t minimize the infected that much. It was a mistake.
I kinda wish there was more infected but other than that the show was perfect
The fact that we wanted more of this series than less means they did an awesome job
no it doesn’t. Still being hungry after you ate dinner, does not mean the food was good.. it means portions were too small.
@@ez6888 it means what you ate was good
@@Heisen_burger-dude The steak was too small but the vegetables and potatoes were very good. But I ordered a steak.
Maybe when I put my second order in a year from now, the chef will give me a bigger steak.
@@Heisen_burger-dude dumb take. There's a difference between not getting enough to can't get enough. There's a huge difference in Arcane season 1 to the TLOU and it's in the story telling. Maybe watch more well written media and come back here.
@@Vizible21 dude maybe you should learn beying not a toxic f*ck in the internet. My comment doesnt insult anyone. You want to test media knowledge? I literally played the game long before your ass even heard from tlou
funny how the scenery is more important than joel and ellie and relationships of characters, which is more important than infected, yet there isn't much going on scenery wise to remind you this isn't just a post apocalyptic future, it's one covered in spores/tendrils. So the scenery was a passive focal point but also didn't involve the key element of the plot, cordyceps.
Not enough infected! But great overall.
For me the flaw is lack of action scenes that expands more of the hardships and developing bonds. They rarely showed the infected. Could've added 20-30 minutes more every episode to show those