"If I had more time I would have written a shorter letter." Who knew I'd end up making my longest video yet? But I had a lot on my mind after finishing the series, and I'd love to know how everyone else felt about the show.
Completely agree with all of your points. The show felt very off, very disappointing to me. The only part where I disagree is the flashbacks. They felt more like interruptions than expansions of the story. I thought they took away from the continuous format of the story that the game told much better.
@@iamlsusam The show was nothing compared to the game and I get the feeling you haven't played the game. Otherwise you wouldn't say that, because their relationship was way more flourished in the game. The emotional moments hit harder in the game as well. Felt rushed and it felt like they used their platform for their woke agenda. Which is fine if it doesn't take away from the actual story/ characters, but it did.
💯 Agreement. First two episodes are good and pretty faithful adaptations. Episode 3 is where the messages of the Show fell short of the Games message. Bill & Frank's story was more This Is Us than The Last Of Us. They have too perfect a life in a Post-Apocalypse with just the two of them. Game Bill was surviving on a knife's edge. Struggling to keep the infected at bay. I think if they reworked the story of the show to mirror the game more. Have Bill & Frank lose parts of the town. Bill angry at Frank for distractions, and himself for letting things fall apart. Have life be a struggle for them. Maybe have a FEDRA vehicle spring one of Bill's Traps, killing the crew, but still making it salvageable. One problem. The area would be surrounded by infected from the noise. Bill says the battery on it is the only way to restore his truck, but he won't risk it to grab it. Frank goes alone to get the battery, but gets infected. Now there are two ways they can do this. 1) Go the game route beat for beat. 2) Have Frank return, say Bill was right and apologize. Then have Bill apologize for his cowardice and not helping him. Frank gets put to rest from poison or drug OD. Bill buries him in the hole they met in with a strawberry garden as a memorial. I have some more story changes I'd make, but I'll do it in other comments.
Wish they’d kept the part where Ellie has the chance to escape with Henry and Sam, but jumps down and chooses to stay with Joel. That’s a pivotal moment in their relationship.
I wish they had just given us Sam and Henry without the boring melodrama with Kathleen. The scene where Henry shot Sam was so much more impactful in the game when he had been a cheerful optimist before then. He spoke about barbeques and riding motorcycles, he laughed and smiled. Him having a mental breakdown and shooting himself was heartbreaking. In the show he was already glum most of the time and guilt-ridden from giving up Michael. Don't even get me started on Michael, they made him sound like Jesus, it was so heavy-handed and hammy.
@@kwk111Neil Druckmann is a narcissist hack who surrounds himself with yes-men and has an inflated ego because of how rabid and insufferable TLOU stans are. Craig Mazin just simply doesnt understand the source material, at all.
I'm really glad I wasn't the only one who felt this way, I absolutely loved the game and still really enjoyed the show largely due to the great performances but by the end I just felt left quite empty by a conclusion that didn't feel natural and a relationship between Joel and Ellie that didn't feel earned. I got so tired of the amount of tell don't show throughout the show about how scary and bad Joel was when the character in the show never felt that way at all. In the final episode I found it almost comical when Marlene's character talked about how an entire unit of her best men barely made it here, wondering how this terrifying man was able to get here at all... but minus literally two incidents (one of which nearly killed joel) this world never seemed all that threatening or deadly especially when compared to that of the game.
"not a killing machine", did we play the same game? You literally kill hundreds of people throughout the game, if not more. And again, my whole point was that you could still have a lot of impact in those scenes even with violence throughout, like I mention with Game of Thrones. Obviously all of this is subjective, so we can agree to disagree on that idea, but saying Joel is not a killing machine in the game is just objectively wrong lol
@@serbio26 I think the issue is that, considering the amount of times it has characters talk about his reputation, the show still wants Joel to be seen the same way he was in the game but doesn't really earn it. I guess the point could be that he was more capable in the past, but to me that feels like a weird trade off since Joel's aging and loss of confidence don't really factor in much during the big moments in this story.
Eh a show won't be exactly like a game just joelenellie the whole time would be boring as hell, seriously have someone play the game who only watched the show they will most likely be bored as hell.
The relationship between Joel and Ellie that didn't feel earned? How many times do you have to put your life on the line or save someone's life in order to earn a relationship?
Daniel, you managed to materialize my thoughts and feelings about the series that I didn't even fully develop. You made them clear, with a perfect choice of words and editing of the scenes from the series and the game. Thank you for this, can't wait for the next essay.
You nailed it right off the bat; the game is all about Ellie and Joel's relationship, and the show didn't give them enough time together. If they wanted to expand the story, have 13 episodes, or spread it over two seasons. Once Joel fully embraces Ellie in ep 9, it felt rushed, like he was being deceptive. This was my big problem with Ep 3. I'm all for seeing more of Bill, but what a waste of time when it hurts Joel and Ellie's arc.
I find that’s more of a problem with tv as a whole nowadays, not just tlou. Most shows nowadays are only 8 or so episodes long with about 50 minutes or so of runtime. Granted, I think most of the shows I’ve watched do about the best they can with such a tight frame, tlou included, but the common complaint of shows being “too rushed” could easily be fixed by having more than 8 episodes
Another thing that made David’s moment slightly worse was how Joel and Ellie were attacked at the university by his man, they had sneakily escaped, posed no threat, they could’ve been left alone but David’s dumb man attacked him with a stick. They killed in self defense. So when David’s giving his big speech and says a “Crazy” man attacked and was traveling with a little girl doesn’t hit like it does in the game. In the game you HAD to kill at least 5-7 guys between Joel and Ellie and it was brutal. So it made sense to call him a “crazy man” but in the show it just doesn’t work. They want the big pay offs from the game without laying groundwork.
Totally agree. I also thinking not having David and Ellie have to work together fighting infected was a mistake. You start to trust David while you fight with him so when he turns on you it is even more impactful.
@@PeachesandCream225agree I knew that David was bad from the start but despite it I was still shocked how fucked up he was. In the show David tells ellie straight away about knowing Joel, in the game he installs a fake sense of security and ellie having control when we learn that he was in control all the time. It was a perfect example of grooming. In the series we know David is bad straight away with how he deals with his community. Ellie knows not to trust him in the game from the start but she still becomes closer to him after fighting together and we as players do the same so the revelation was impactful
Yeah, also the actor does an alright job as this "manipulative preacher," but he doesn't scream David imo. I pictured Steven Ogg in the role, and it felt way better.
@@PeachesandCream225 this is maybe the least important aspect of game David that the show David was lacking, but note-worthy enough: in the game David had dark-gray scruffy hair and beard. This gave him a slight abstract resemblance to Joel. There was a subtle sense of familiarity to him, for the player and in-universe for Ellie. This added to the sense that maybe he could be trusted.
It's really important that this video exists. Among the sea of praise the show is getting (and rightfully so), it's still not above scrutiny. And rather than some of the typical UA-cam vids that just want to fawn over or trash a popular thing, it is valuable to have *real critical analysis* from those who don't just love the source material, but UNDERSTAND the reasons why the source material works the way it does. This is truly excellent stuff. Needless to say, I agree with virtually all of it. I don't think anything in the show reaches Game of Thrones S8 levels, but otherwise yea. The lack of infected, and rushed relationship at the center of the story are the big issues, but I love your examination of both Joel and Ellie's individual characters. On a surface level, everything is there, but there's a nuance to knowing how subtle personality changes have an effect on how their arcs read onscreen. A less violent Joel and a more assertive Ellie both feel to me like the show coded these characters based on how they are in Part 2, but it retroactively alters how Part 1 feels. I can't say I'm a fan of the cordycepts changes either, since the fungal network and tendril mouths were more to set up a shocking moment violating Tess, than anything that actually factors into the story ever again. Over-explaining Ellie's immunity now creates plot holes (she would have been scanned living with FEDRA and it would have come up). I could go on, bringing up Kathleen, but I really don't want to sound ungrateful, because HBO really has achieved something special with this series. It's hard for me to call the adaptation a failure when casual audiences still reacted to all the key beats exactly the way the story intended. And that's what's most important.
I appreciate you saying so! I rarely get negative on this channel so whenever I do, I make sure I put in the time to get it right. I think nitpicky channels like Cinema Sins are just bad for film criticism, and I'd hate to get lumped into that category lol
This is exactly how I felt when I finished the show the ending didn’t feel earned and the show could’ve definitely benefited with more time and more care given to the protagonists. A big issue I had was how obvious it was that David was a cannibal from the moment the episode began it was clear they were eating people and that David was crazy with zero ambiguity and no time to think maybe David was a good person something that was present in the game.
I didn't think it was immediately obviously he was a cannibal, but I definitely agree that they made him seem quite slimy right off the bat, which totally lessens the moment when Ellie finds out the truth.
Fully agree. We played through Part 2 when the show was on and one of the biggest differences was the lack of THREAT we felt when watching the show. Obviously we knew the broad beats they would explore, but it really lacked the tension from the infected. I think it would have been best to end season 1 at the conclusion of the Sam & Henry plotline, and fill it out with more episodes of them struggling to survive, fight and gather precious resources - whilst also bonding more
I was literally thinking the same thing. Perfect cutoff point for a first season that would have allowed them to do everything they needed. Even if those moments were totally different from what we saw in the game, just anything to build more tension that enforced their bonding
Omg thank you! I was trying to explain to my friends who haven't played the game why this show needed to be longer and bleaker, the world is supposed to feel scary and awul so that when you get to those brief moments of hope and peace they really make an impact. The pacing felt so wrong to me, it genuinely didn't seem like the post apocalypse was all that bad which makes the stakes far less intense. And ditto with the Joel and Ellie relationship the pay off of the final scene is very much not rewarding when the relationship was so rushed, he was way to soft at the beginning of the show for me, the great character arc for him fell flat because it felt more like emotional whiplash. He would be fine then snap, especially with the Ellie fight when he tried to dump her on his brother, that didn't feel like show Joel at all because his character was so different. The ending too. I wasn't mad at the show just let down. It didn't feel lazy and I could tell a lot of people involved really cared but all in all it fell apart for me.
Exactly, I would never call anyone who worked on this show lazy, and in many ways everyone did some incredible work, especially the cast and crew. But all these rushed feelings totally killed my enjoyment of the show, and it left me feeling more disappointed the more I watched.
@@StarRain6 I think to fix it's pacing issues it should have been either a 20 episode series or split the story of the first game into 2 seasons. So essentially yes I think it needed to be closer to 15 hours to round out the world and characters. And no I don't think the Uncharted movie needed that since the games aren't as story heavy and the movie was a much looser adaptation of that source material.
@@StarRain6 For starters although yes the show would have more time for the Joel and Ellie relationship to develop which I think would be helpful, with 20 episodes it would obviously be more than that. I don't know what even gave you that idea. More episodes could lead to more world building, more actual Infected being shown and various characters given more time to be developed on screen. You're assuming quite a lot of a theoretical show runtime. If you personally like the length of the show then fair enough. I found it weirdly paced and that it rushed through some character and plot developments so wish they had given it more episodes. Also tbh although it's not JUST about "JoelnEllie adventures" as you called it they are literally the focal point of the game and show. They are the driving force and their character arcs are dependent on eachother. If you think 20 episodes of their story (which is literally the point of the show) would be atrocious, I really don't get what you're even getting out of the show.
Very little infected, missing character beats, Ellie's immunity explanation, thank you for clarifying the major problems I had with this adaptation. Production, acting, and music were all stellar, but there are indeed important elements that were lost in translation.
@@Good_Boy_3000 Not only that, but if that's what made Ellie immune, then why don't the fireflies just get a pregnant woman and have her get bit when she gives birth again? Realistic? No. But neither is their explanation!
This video deserves way more attention. I agree completely as someone who loves The Last of Us and I felt similarly that others had missed the ways the series fell short of the game. It's hard to live up to one of the best stories in gaming, but they did have the tools.
Like, when Halo was getting adapted, I knew it would be a let down. The creators didn't seem to even be fans of the game, and Amazon? They're not even in the same ballpark as HBO lol So I had I hopes for TLOU, but yeah, the game is still far superior to me
You articulated so many of my thoughts in this video. Especially about the function of the Bill section for Joel. At this point Joel's motivation is simply honour Tess' dying wish. Bill's advice to ditch her serves as an viable alternative for Joel. Having him choose to reject Bill's advice felt like a small but crucial decision because it gave Joel agency in this mission to deliever Ellie himself. Instead Joel's motivations without this crucial decision could as well be just being guilt tripped by Tess or conveniently already heading out to find Tommy so I might as well.
Excellent point! Their farewell together really makes it clear too, that Joel is actively making this choice that Bill disagrees with, even saying to him something like "you're never gonna make it."
Could not agree more. After a few episodes in, I realised there was something off with this adaptation, but I couldn't see anyone else doing anything other than singing the shows' praises. You are 100% correct. There is not enough time spent with Joel and Ellie. We constantly cut to the perspective of others when we should stay with theirs for the majority of the show. Its not important why adversaries act the way they do, through some deviating back story side plot, only how Joel and Ellie perceive their confrontations. The game represents a near year long journey with Joel and Ellie and the pacing of the game really makes you feel this. The show doesnt make it feel like the two characters have spend much time together at all. All of Joels character changes come spilling out far too easy, rather than having the change dragged out of him against his will. One big upset for me was the scene where Ellie first kills a human with a gun. In the game, Joel scolds her instead of thanking her and its a brilliant show of his mindset at the time, how he is purposely keeping her at distance. The TV shows version of this scene skips the scolding and jumps straight into an emotional one. It is no longer a scene for Joel, but one for Ellie instead, and it is inferior. The TV show ending didnt land for me at all. No one who played the game in 2013 can forget how gobsmacking the ending of the game was. Players experienced a cocktail of shock, disgust, shame, and heartbreak upon initial completion of the game as the weight of Joels actions dwelled on them. The show in comparison just felt flat.
This is a fair and calculated review! Well Done! Craig Mazin needs to hear this feedback. I hope that these humble criticisms can break through all the praise and be taken seriously.
This is an incredibly well articulated and level headed take. It’s been a very odd feeling as the show has received near universal praise, specifically for being a “masterpiece adaption”, but it’s refreshing to see some folks in the comments and otherwise who are as passionate about the source material who have felt like lunatics for not being enraptured by the show. The beautiful part about it receiving so much love as a series is that even as a dietary version of the story, it still connected with people so strongly, which is a testament to the power of the game. But it’s like hearing Taylor Swift doing a kazoo-only cover of a Led Zeppelin song (no disrespect to T-Swizzle) or taking the ingredients of a delicious casserole and putting it all in a blender, raw, unbaked and lacking proper nutritional sustenance 🫰 Anyway, this was a truly excellent video, and I hope people go into it with an open mind.
Hey now, I like Taylor Swift well enough lol. I said “no disrespect”, but I suppose that doesn’t mean **** to some. But I don’t care how talented she is, NOBODY can pull off a kazoo cover of “The Rain Song”. And I stand by that haha
Huge video. Thank you for this undertaking. I particularly agree with your point that the more poignant moments of the show did not feel earned, and it wasn't until I watched your video that I understand why I felt that way as the show aired.
Completely agree with your analysis and conclusion on why they missed the boat! Love the series but making 9 episodes to cover the first game was not enough.
My other post was kind of long, so I thought I'd break it up into more than one. Another thing I didn't like about the show as compared to the game: Like you said, they took their time with Joel warming up to Ellie and their bonding (in the game). One could SEE what was happening through their actions and dialogue. In the show they kind of threw it in the viewer's face (in case they're too stupid to get it, I guess?), and rushed it. Like Henry saying something like, "You're not her father, but you were someone's." As if the viewer can't realize that Ellie is going to be important to him at some point, as Sarah was. We don't need a hammer blow to the head with that stuff. Show, don't tell, and all that. There was another line of dialogue that was a little too on the nose, too, in that same vein, but I forget what it was or what episode it was in. (Edit: I think it was the Bill and Frank episode when Ellie was reading the note that Bill left. Saying he found that one person to make everything worthwhile and "saved him." BAM! Thanks, show, just in case we miss it completely later on * eyeroll * ) And I really hated that they focused on some little fairy tale life for Bill and Frank (yeah, okay, two DECADES - in an APOCALYPSE - of all the food you can eat and all the wine you can drink and very little Infected or Hunters coming to take it away), instead of having a jaded Bill, as you've said, showing how Joel could end up with no one going that route. And I missed the Bill/Ellie interactions. Bill's Town in the game was one of the best parts and they just ruined it. There's more, but this is getting long, too.
lmao that's how I felt writing this video! Every time I thought I was done I had more issues that I wanted to talk about, and hence the 33 minute length lol. Honestly I still felt like I had more to complain about, but then this video would just be 4 hours long and it'd have taken me months to finish XD
@@daniel_netzel Right? 😄 If I wanted to cover everything I wanted to cover, I'd just have to make my own damn video. (No one's going to read a two page length essay in the comment section, heh.)
Dude finally someone gets it. I thought i was going crazy with all the praise. I felt like it was a bit more shallow and missed a lot of the major themes and subtleties of the game. Thank you for understanding how these "minor changes" fundamentally change the characters.
Honestly, if the show had managed to (narratively) translate everything the game did it would still be the lesser version by virtue of the visuals not being able to stack up, and the musical score not being where it needs to. But more importantly the game had Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson, who have a quintessential chemistry with one another that Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey simply can't compete with. The unsung succes of The Last of Us (game) is really those two actors working so well together.
While I think that Pedro and Bella were amazing, and had some terrific chemistry, I do agree that there's just no competing with Troy and Ashley, they were pitch perfect every step of the way.
excellent video! You are very correct about the number of infected people shown in the series and the elimination of the spores; the infection lost much narrative weight. In the last episode I was thinking; If Bill and Frank, the elderly couple at the cavin or the members of the commune, can live peacefully, Eli's sacrifice is simply unnecessary.
Thank you man. I appreciate you putting out a lot of the stuff I was keying into while watching and no one else was saying. Keep at the dream; you got something to say and I'm really grateful you said it
Amazing analysis, thank you for that. My thoughts - whilst the show had its moments, it was not at the level of HBO quality say some scenes here and there, and two or three episodes that all the others paled too much in comparison, and which really could have been short stories unrelated to the rest of the series. The exclusion of the spores was a very strange decision considering us as the audience could have sympathised with a world where air born particles were a major risk and masks a necessity called upon in certain situations. Why they talked about the hive mind of the infected but never touched on it again I do not know. I felt show Bella was over acting in some parts, being an unnecessary bad ass or overly swearing in scenes that did not ask for it. In game Ellie was a sweet innocent child, with some fire, struggling with the burden of existence that starts to weight on all of us from the transition of childhood into adolescence - the realisation that the world is not the Disney we all thought it was. Add this to the reality of the environment she exists in, and her burden, we see her slow corruption through Joel’s instinctual parenting, and the necessities of survival in that world. Pedro was a poor choice for Joel. He is too soft, in game Joel cannot break down, a hardened shell of a man made by what he has had to endure. He cares not for death, or emotions, he lost all of that the day his daughter died. He simply goes on because it is in his nature, he survives on instinct in the same way he parents on instinct. Ellie is in direct contrast to this, and the reason why they are the perfect catalyst for changing one another with their opposing forces, a yin and yang so to speak. I did not feel this in the show. Both Bella and Pedro’s reactions and actions in many situations were not reflective of the characters the show was attempting to build. There was very little rapport to justify their love for one another let alone enough chemistry. The inclusion of flash backs was a nice touch that gave necessary exposition, and gave those of us who played the games something new to work with, however they were not consistent which I feel would have added a nice touch if included in every episode. CGI was off in some parts too and looked at least a decade old in terms of quality. I did enjoy many aspects of the show, however the game was a perfect 10 for its ability to derive an emotional response that no game came close to. The scenes of respite in the game, those moments where conversation naturally took place, that was everything. We grew with the characters, understood them. In the show, we did not. A caveat - I like both Bella and Pedro. But they had no business in these roles. The heads of the show wanted to stand out above other shows, yet they messed with a recipe that made a perfect cake more than was necessary.
perfectly articulated. i haven’t played the game for years, so I sensed something was off about the show but couldn’t put my finger on what changes sunk the show so hard. you described it exactly. well done!
Some really good points here that I definitely agree with. Refreshing to hear as I've only seen praise for this show and not much in the way of actual criticism
Such a great video. Reflects exactly how I've been feeling about the show. Feels like a genuine relief that someone else was thinking on my wavelength.
It's been cathartic seeing so many comments feel the same way, on this video and elsewhere online, scrolling through IMDb reviews of the final episode shows a lot of people feeling similarly.
I 100% agree with all your takes on this. This video needs exponentially more views. It was a great adaptation but I finished it feeling almost indifferent by the end because it just…wasn’t the same story. For me I loved episode 3, and a good amount of the backstory was interesting. I just don’t like that the cost of that backstory was losing what felt like 1/3 of an already short show. Your point on making the finale- the shortest episode- start with that flashback….it’s just like disrespectful almost lol.
You hit all the points that I was thinking. They really needed to cut the episode with Bill to show more of ehat happened at the university and show more of the cannibal section. They should not have been afraid to show the brutal violence from the game. I too, am afraid from season 2. Spoilers: I hope they don't kill Joel off soon since in the show we haven't spent that much time with him to show how much he matters to Ellie. Great video.
Ah, THANK YOU for this video. I think you really hit on something here. I've never played this game, but I've watched others play on UA-cam and I've watched "movie" versions on here where people paired the cut scenes with the parts of the game that they got through successfully, and I really love the story. I watch it a lot and it's one of my favorite stories of any medium. I, too, think the HBO series was rushed and I didn't like the changes they made to the characters. That's NOT Joel, NOT Ellie, definitely NOT Tess and definitely NOT Bill. The actors did fine with what they were given, and it was an okay series, just like an alternate universe of the story, but it just missed a lot of things. I was complaining on another video that there weren't enough Infected in the series and no matter how many times I said "I KNOW it's about Joel and Ellie and other things and not just 'some zombie show'", other commenters were, well, complaining about my complaint, and saying things like "it's not some shooty-shooty-bang-bang video game, it's a SHOW." Duh. I said I KNOW that. Anyway, I got so frustrated with the commenters not getting where I was coming from, I ended up just deleting my comment (along with all their responses, heh). You've said it a lot better than what I was trying to convey. I kind of wish I had kept my comment up, I would have just directed everyone to this video to shut them up. I was disappointed with the show. But, hopefully it will make a lot more people watch the game version.
It's one of my favorite stories too, genuinely moved me in a way that I have rarely experienced in life. But yeah, the comments are a mixed bag, plenty are willing to engage in a discussion but there are a LOT of fans who just spam hate at anyone who has a critical opinion of the show, and it's happening all over twitter and reddit too, some people just can't handle hearing a different perspective
@@daniel_netzel Yes, this. People take everything so personally and just get violent over the simplest things. It's like - hey, I'm not attacking YOU personally, I just have a different opinion than you do, which I am entitled to. We can agree to disagree and not throw insults and hate at everybody. But everyone's so negative and nasty about everything on the 'net these days. They see different opinions as a personal affront and "hear" the opposing view in their heads as "yelling" when the person writing the comment meant no such thing. Everybody in the universe doesn't have to have the same opinions or like the same things. Sheesh.
I’m so glad you made this and happy you made the Game of Thrones comparison (in a few ways). Like you said with GoT: the storytelling and character development do not have to be a separate thing from the violence. They go well together, so it’s upsetting the show takes so much away there where Game of Thrones kept its violence impactful to the very end (in my opinion). The other GoT comparison is one I’ve made as well; they’re both rushed. I find it strange that Game of Thrones gets so much hate for its last season or two for being rushed, but The Last of Us is getting praised when it does the same thing. It just really confuses me to be honest.
Great critique. When some friends told me that the show had surpassed the game, I strongly disagreed, while having many of your points in mind. I said that in order to justify my opinion, I'd have to elaborate a lot. If my friends spoke English I'd send this video to them.
It was amusing how everyone on the journey (Tess, Bill, Henry, etc.) would stop and directly tell Joel the same "do ANYTHING for the ones you love" message. Cut to them as Star Wars ghosts applauding as he blasts his way through a hospital full of allies and the last hope of humanity.
Brilliant video essay, couldn't agree more. Although I belong to the shameful minority of people who haven't played the game yet, I'm still in awe and amazement every time I see the gameplay videos on UA-cam. And you were very spot on with that GOT comparison. Theoretically, the plot points do make sense, but in action they fall short because of the limited runtime. Best of luck for the future videos and warmest greetings from Iran❤
Thank you! Not everyone has access, or the ability to play these games, but watching through gameplay on UA-cam is still totally valuable. I missed out on Demon's Souls forever ago (never had a PS3) so I watched a playthrough, nowhere near the same but I'm glad I still got to see what that game was all about. But for TLOU? It's arguably the best game to just sit and watch in the first place lol, it's so cinematic and film-like even in the gameplay but especially the cutscenes, and as long as you're seeing more than just the cutscenes, you can still be totally immersed in that world.
Yeah it felt rushed. I did not expect the emotional winter part to be done in one episode... Show should've been longer. Also, every single emotional moment hit way waaayyy harder in the game.
The cast was terrible. Pascal was more like a soft tampon wearing version of Joel and Ramsay is far too annoyingly upbeat for someone in the apocalypse and completely misses the light and shade personality of Ellie.
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@@drewkiely901 10 seconds of seeing Ellie from the series and I stoped watching it. Polar opposite.
If it's a missed opportunity in your eyes then how come the showrunners are great? It skims through the plot and adds unnecessary fillers and the fillers are just agenda... Also the cast is bad
I agree man, on a technical level, the show was great: vfx, score, set design, acting(in some cases), but I also have a few issues. Mainly that I felt that the overall first season didn’t feel as organic as it should’ve been, the separate stories or events were good on there own but as a whole I don’t think they fit well. As far as adaptions of video games go it’s really good, but I can’t say I’m in love with the show. I feel weird about it because it does a lot right but I’m just not into like a majority of people.
I agree! And it's strange because Chernobyl follows so many different POVs and they all work perfectly, but yeah they just didn't mesh all that well for me, it just feels like a lot of disparate stories at the end of the world rather than any focused narrative, and that focused narrative is a huge part of what made the game so memorable for me.
I think the fact that Joel is not as ruthless in the show makes his rampage at the end feel much more significant and impactful. When faced with the potential death of his new daughter, he goes from a violent but not that ruthless guy, and turns into a killing machine willing to do anything to not have to face that loss again. Had he been just as brutal from the start, the final rampage would have just felt like more of the same, and not the emotionally-driven brutal act of selfishness and fear that it was in the show.
I get where you're coming from, it's clearly how the writers of the show felt, but that's where I disagree. Most of the violence in the game is clear self defense, everyone in that world immediately tries to kill you so we just kill them first. There's still a vast difference between killing a bunch of cannibals who were trying to eat you or raiders who just shoot on sight, and mowing down scientists and soldiers who are literally just trying to save the world. To me in the show it just felt off because we even see other characters who have lost children(Maria) or characters who deeply care for Ellie(Marlene), but neither of them are going on a mass shooting to protect someone and I think the whole point is that this is not just a universal reaction, other people faced with this choice would make the right decision, or would find another way of saving Ellie that didn't involve murdering a bunch of innocent people. And again, this is kind of the entire point of TLOU Part 2, which is why this is such a sticking point for me. I feel like all of the emotional weight behind that story stems from the idea that some people just really don't know how to handle loss. But I appreciate your thoughtful comment. It's refreshing to see someone say more than just "L take bozo" and actually offer some genuine opinions.
@@daniel_netzel I struggle to get your point, in utter honesty. Joel reacted like none of the mentioned characters probably would have reacted because, well, he's a different character indeed but, quite most importantly, there are different circumstances and characterisics at hand. First, Joel ain't like Maria or Marlene. He has no attachment whatsover to a particular community, nor feel responsible for them or the whole world, he feels responsible only for Ellie and his brother. Them aside, he's basically a cynical survivalist loner. That's an aspect that alone brings weight towards making a choice over another. Secondly, Maria lost a child and so did Joel, except losing Ellie would have meant going through that trauma a whole second time. Again, Maria may love Tommy but she's a leadership figure surrounded by a whole community she's clearly in touch with. For Joel, Ellie is an abundant 3/4 of his world. The same applies to Marlene: she leads a revolutionary group and is in touch with a specific community, in this case the type of community acting as "freedom fighters" who hold the ambition of saving the whole world. And she indeed cares for Ellie, but mostly because (in the show) she made a promise to her mother, and is merely protecting her from afar; nothing even barely comparable to actively risk your life to protect her for months, sharing traumatic experiences and overcoming immense obstacles together, protecting and caring for each other all the way through. The bond formed in that way is way, way, way more adamant and visceral. Last but not least, Marlene and the Fireflies rushed way too fast towards the goal of murdering Ellie to get the vaccine/cure, making Joel unable to emotionally process what the fuck was happening. The cold, almost scorn attitude of the Fireflies (both in the game and show but possibly even more in the second) just added insult to injury; for someone struggling to emotionally process the situation and coming from a whole 20 years of unresolved trauma, those Firefly soldiers symbolized the wolrd delivering the ultimate spit on his face. On the general argument regarding the failure of adaptation, I'll agree to disagree because I think the disagreement comes from an entirely different perspective or, if one prefers, ideological/philosophycal take. To me adaptation means exactly what it says, adapting: and adapting means bending, enough to fit a different environment without ever breaking. That's what "adaptation" means to me. You gain things you didn't get, and you lose some along the way, and that's because the two mediums ain't superior to one another, they are just very different and will inevitably get different results, but I think the show has been faithful to the source as much as it could reasonably be. But again, this is my very specific perspective. Beyond that, I do believe the show has its own proper flaws but I blame them to budget contraints rather than fundamental flaws in the writers' vision. I mean, the budget was still considerable (and it showed) but this first season remained a bet that may have struggled to pay itself, if something worked the wrong way.
Of course these are different characters with different circumstances, but my point was that mass murder is just not a default setting for most people, regardless of what's at stake. Some faced with the same choice would make the sacrifice for the greater good, but even the most protective parents would do anything to find another way of saving their child, most people wouldn't just kill without mercy and go full terminator mode regardless of the situation. I think such extreme action from Joel needs to have its precedent, the breadcrumbs that can build to such an act of atrocity. People don't just become mass shooters overnight, and the game's Joel is clearly established as incredibly violent as soon as we take control after the prologue, but HBO Joel spends half of the show demonstrating the opposite, he tries to defuse conflict, not escalate it. So ultimately that is where it fails as an adaptation for me, naturally no story is going to translate perfectly or identically when switching mediums, but in your words you describe bending, not breaking, and these changes did break it for me. But of course we can agree to disagree, I know plenty of people loved the show, and I envy you guys, I really do. But yeah, all of these changes were much more than nitpicks for me, it may seem like hyperbole from your perspective but I genuinely mean it when I say that this fell apart completely as an adaptation for me.
I think the show highlights one of the problems with the original game's ending, namely that the game's ending fails to make the possibility of the cure under the circumstances and the cost to achieve it believable. The show (I can't recall how the game approaches it) attempts to frame the situation as a moral debate around consent; Joel points out that the Fireflies lied to Ellie and are sacrificing her without asking her, that what happens to her life isn't their choice. Marlene attempts to equivocate by saying it isn't up to him either, suggesting he's being just as selfish; she speculates that Ellie would have chosen to do the right thing. Joel remains silent in the face of this, but that's an artifice of the writing forcing Joel's silence so that he can't be allowed to give the obvious retort: that, if Marlene believes Ellie would have given her her consent, why didn't she ask her? As a question of consent, the Fireflies are forcing Ellie to give up her life, and Joel is saving her from being forced. Ellie was not given a chance to choose by the Fireflies; Joel was not given a chance to *ask* by the Fireflies. The way the show frames the conversation, Joel is objectively correct to have done what he did. Even as a utilitarian debate between the needs of the many (the world) outweighing the needs of the few (Joel, Ellie), the game and the show both fail to make the argument for the sacrifice being a worthwhile thing. Indeed, the second game outright gives us the answer, that the surgeon couldn't find a cure despite having experimented on several other subjects; unwittingly, Joel's cover story to Ellie after she wakes in the car is the god's honest truth. And really, what more can be expected from a so called surgeon with only a bachelor's in biology? I mean, do they have the manufacturing facilities needed to develop the cure, produce it, and disseminate it? And who gets the cure anyway? I'm sure all the Fireflies get it, but who else, I have to wonder? The game and the show are both hyper realistic settings, but the ending of the first game, and the position the second game seems to take around Joel's final choice, requires you to engage in purely magical thinking, wherein your disbelief and basic critical thinking skills have to be abruptly jettisoned to accept its premise. That's why damn near everyone sides with Joel; the Fireflies simply don't make their case, and Joel has to be actively prevented from defending himself through the artifice of the Writer to allow the uncertainty within the narrative to stand on its flimsy foundations. This is one of the biggest problems people have with the second game, that despite all available evidence clearly pointing to Joel having done the right thing, the narrative insists his choice was monstrous and selfish, and he isn't allowed to defend his choice in the myriad of obvious ways. Whatever the show, and the game, were trying to say or encourage the audience to consider, it fails because the premise of the ending doesn't add up; to most people, Joel made the right choice, and that was enough.
I haven’t seen the show so I can’t comment on it, but my feeling when they announced the show was, this must be for people who haven’t played the game. For me, the game told its story well enough that I didn’t have any interest in seeing a remake, particularly when it looks virtually identical to the original.
One of my biggest issues with the show is that even though Pedro Pascal is a good actor, is that he doesnt look much like Joel from the videogame. Now Hugh Jackman, as well as Gerard Butler, yes those two do bear a strong resemblance to him. In fact, I would say Gerad Butler is a more apropiate choice, given that Hugh Jackman is like 6'3ft, while Joel is an man more of average height, I assume, and Jackman might look a little too imposing a figure when you see him onscreen. Another person I think was miscast was frankly the girl who played Ellie. In fact I think the girl who played the youngest daughter on Last Man Standing, would've been a better fit.
Fantastic analysis. 100% agree with your take here. Your deep understanding of theme, character, and story are very evident in this critique. Well done.
I think you have really figured this out nicely...the whole conundrum of changing aspects of the game story vs maintaining the game storyline in piecewise fashion, leading to "problems" in the show.
This is a good video. I have some similar complaints as you (although it looks like I may be more positive overall on it, I'm at like a 4/5 for the show while the game is a 5/5). It feels like the show could have used at least 1 more episode to give us more just Joel and Ellie time. I will say in the shows defense I watched it with a few other people who hadn't played the game and they didn't have the same complaints I had, at least not to the same extent. Or at least it didn't seem to really bother them as much. Obviously that's a small sample size, but it is interesting I do wish we had more infected and I do wish Joel was shown as more brutal and Ellie as less so. Showing Ellie as immediately vicious was one of my first (and maybe biggest) problem with this adaption Also I hope you don't get too much hate for this video. The Last of Us fandom is weird, you have the ultra positive and the extremely negative and it can be a big shit show. I enjoy this reasoned take from you and understand it comes from a love for the source material
Well it's already my most disliked video, so off to a great start I guess lol People have already been spamming dislikes without even watching it just because I have a critical opinion, which is pretty sad, but what can ya do? lol
@@daniel_netzel Ha yeah it happens sadly. At least you never made a video specifically about Part II, that brings out fanatics on a whole new level. I use to visit the last of us subreddit but since the show has started it feels like criticism isn't welcomed much at all, but then the Part II subreddit is just a massive hate boner. So really it's hard to find a good place where disagreements are not downvoted completely and discussion can actually happen
I watched a lot of great creators get blasted with hate, and obviously the game itself, it was a really ugly time to be honest. People treated Part II like the worst thing to ever happen to art, and I could not disagree more.
I also watched the series with people who didn't play the game, didn't have the same complaints and they really liked it, especially the first 5 episodes. After episode 5 they felt it was rushed. I think that's the biggest complain from everyone, whether they played the game or not.
Excellent breakdown! All your arguments felt so considered and robust yet also easy to follow - both in the script and visual editing. Good on you for getting this point of view out there. (and equally big props to you for replying to so many comments here).
EXACTLY! I watched the first episode and thought it was a great adaptation. Then the ending with the soldier came and immediately knew this show was not going to be as good as the game. The scene was changed very slightly. But that change immediately made me realize the writers on this (who btw weren't the same as on the first game despite what they want you to believe) don't understand the story. In the game Joel and Tess end up killing the soldiers, but it's not to protect Ellie. It's to protect themselves. They are two people who will do anything to survive and in this case they use the distraction of Ellie stabbing the guy testing her to kill the soldiers. Then right after they question Ellie about her infection before being forced back on the run. In the show Ellie does end up stabbing the soldier as well, but they don't manage to get the upper hand regardless and get held at gunpoint, which I feel like the soldier would just fire at that point in that world. But he doesn't and Joel just somehow charges straight at him and doesn't get shot in the head. This short little sequence already mischaracterizes Joel in a couple of ways that are very crucial. 1. He and Tess are not the expert smugglers who can deal with hordes of "zombies" and people at a time. No they are actually quite incompetent as they get the jump on a guy pissing, get held at gunpoint having to bargain everything just to survive. Then when Ellie stabs the soldier they still can't overpower him and only kill him when Joel by the grace of god doesn't get shot point blank. 2. Joel is already attached to Ellie and sees her as his daughter. So much so that he would give up his life for her sake. There are couple of smaller characterizations, but this kinda captures the gist.
The Kathleen storyline was a big miss for me. It placed too much focus on melodrama involving a bland nothing character the writers did nothing substantive with, when the audience would've been happy with the focus entirely on Sam and Henry for those episodes.
I know this might be a controversial video to publish, but I'm very excited to watch it. I think 1-2 more episodes with just Joel and Ellie would have solved a lot of my issues w/ the show.
I think the main obstacle that every adaptation of a videogame to a different medium has to circumvent is the fact that videogames are an interactive form of art. That is their primary strength. When you try to adapt something as specifically made to be played as The Last of Us, that has a narrative so entangled with it's gameplay, you must make use of all the unique strengths of the new medium, that being TV in this case. I agree with pretty much everything you said. The show is really well made, well acted, with great production values; but as an adaptation, which it clearly tries to be, it falls short of the game. I think if they had divided the story of the first game into two seasons, maybe it would have turned better, specially for the character work and building up the relationships between them. Although, to be honest, I would've much preferred that they told us a different story than just retreading the same one with Joel and Ellie. I see it as a missed opportunity. Just imagine if they had shown us different parts of the world succumbed to the fungal outbreak. The different ways that different characters carry on with their lives in this God forsaken post-apocalyptic world. Imagine the countless stories that can be told in this world that have nothing to do with Joel and Ellie. But, oh well, we're not the owners of this IP so, in the end, all we can do is to endure and survive. At least we still have the games. Great video as always, Daniel. ✌🏻
The TV show succeeded for me when it veered away from the game and told new stories or simply changed characters completely (Bill as an example). I prefer the game and the personal experience of actual being joel/ellie throughout the experience versus being a fly on the wall throughout the tv experience. It's still a solid tv show in my opinion but it didn't blow me away like the game. My recommendation would be to tell a completely different story and make it a new experience all around ------ as it stands now it is going to be comparison piece between the show and game.
Simply put, you were spot on. I've watched many videos on the comparison between the game and the show. This is clearly the most spot on video, in my opinion. I appreciate your effort in putting this together. I only wish that the ahowrunnera can see this video and understand how they've messed up on a unique opportunity. I look forward to viewing more of your videos. You've gained a fan!
Great vid! Your arguments were exactly what I was pointing out to myself watching the show. I especially liked how how you mentioned the lack of the infected. With so much emphasis on the origins of the infection, I was surprised there weren’t more infected let alone any threats at all in general. The journey was the best part of the game and the show lazily portrayed every instance of that. Not to mention I was also highly disappointed in the portrayal of Ellie. I found myself being more annoyed of Ellie than rooting for her to survive.
I personally loved the show, but I am very glad that this video exists. In a sea of complaints that are just "the woke agenda ruined the show" it's very refreshing to see an actual critique of TLOU. I love to see videos that make points that I disagree with without them turning into some cringy culture war "I don't like that there's black people in this" bullshit. Great video! Subscribing right now!
As someone who played the game after watching the show, it was hard for me to notice small things like this, so thanks for bringing this up. I definitely agree that Joel and Ellie didn’t get enough screen time together, it felt like the ending came out of nowhere. I feel like if they had a few more episodes it could have went much better. I’m also wondering how they will do certain things when they start Tlou pt 2, since they got rid of spores (ifkyk).
Craig Mazin is incredible and he did so good with Chernobyl but so underwhelmed me - I never felt that same tension when playing the game. And 2 episodes in I’m rerouted to a side story which could easily have played in Season 2 Nice critique and you really landed on the fine details that could have made all the difference
You nailed it. Absolutely perfect assessment. I completely agree that in the game, even those who disagree with Joel's final choice and found it to be abhorrent--still EMPATHIZED with Joel and understood WHY he did it. He wasn't going to let this world take another daughter from him. I truly love TLOU and was similarly disappointed with the show. Bill and Frank's episode was beautiful, but was ultimately filler and not really on theme with TLOU. Their compound was safe and resources abundant. I didn't even feel the Strawberry scene was particularly beautiful, considering how well they'd already been eating!! In the game, QZ's suck, but at least you're safe from infected and get rations. In the show, I don't see why anyone would live in the QZ when there's almost no threat outside of it! And I just personally prefer Bill as a warning sign to Joel--"this is what you could become. A paranoid man that survives out of spite and has nothing and nobody." The letter Bill writes Joel in the show is just so on-the-nose, almost cheesy. =/
Your right about your points but honestly it seems like the solution to your issues with the show would be a 30 hour season that rivals the game in run time. Thats just not happening as much as I would have loved it. That would take so much money and couldn't be in the budget for a show that honestly before the first episode most people are always weary of video game adaptations.
Just came across your channel today and after seeing your Matrix video, I wanted to see more of your work and I was not disappointed. TLoU is and always will be my favorite game. I became emotionally attached to the game. As a father myself, I could feel the pain Joel had been through and watching him and Ellie bond, in some strange way, made me feel like I was watching my own life as I played through. So when the series finally came out, after waiting forever to see it, I was blown away by how good of a job they did capturing some of the most iconic scenes. I mean, if you did a side by side comparison, some of the scenes you would have a hard time distinguishing the series from the game. As for the "woke" stuff, personally I would have liked it to stick to the original storyline but it wasn't that big of a deal. I do completely agree that it felt like a rushed quick play. They definitely should have stretched it out. They had plenty of opportunities to let the character development play out more. It just didn't pull at my heart like the game did. All in all, I still very much enjoyed it. Maybe it was just my love for the game that left me wanting more from the show. If you happened to make it through my rant, I look foward to seeing more of your videos. Best of luck.
I think the show does well in showing Ellies change. But I do think some combat was missing and the ending was too short of an episode, it really left me wanting more.
It just all felt a little rushed to me, especially after how much time they took in the beginning. In the Pilot, I was optimistic, because they gave us so much more time with Sarah than we saw in the game so I was like "cool! They're going to do this for everything else!" and by the time I was a few episodes in I felt like I was watching the game on fast forward.
I agree, the show was definitely different than the game. I thoroughly enjoyed the show but really appreciate your points. I was shocked when I found out that it was going to end the game in season one. Way to short. I figured they would end when they got to Tommy. I didn't think about the lack of violence but definitely noticed the lack of infected. Maybe my love the for game filled some of the gaps when watching the show. Really enjoyed your take and video. My wife watched the show with me but never played the game. I might ask her opinions after making her watch this :)
The fact infected are few and far between in the show reflects how they felt in part 2 of the game to me: they felt more like an afterthought. The story is more concerned with the folly of men and society but as a result pushes the inciting incident to the wayside, making all those cool before infection day bits feel pointless. I only played part 2 recently and while it’s not as bad as I initially thought when it released, it’s nothing that phenomenal compared to the first. In fact I’d say part 2 and by extension the show adaptation will do next season will be the opposite of what I praised the first game’s story for when it first came out 10 years ago: it did everything right the walking dead - a bloated soap opera with zombies in the background - had been doing wrong for years. It may have the soul but the heart will have stopped. All the more reason my expectations for the remainder of the show are low and I think Naughty Dog should just move on from the franchise and not try to force a part 3 in a sloppy attempt to tie things up with a pretty bow. Life, no matter the state of the world outside of storytelling, doesn’t work that way.
After episode 5, there are no infected(minus one for each flashback sequence). I hear people argue that the game is about the Joel/Ellie relationship & not the infected. That's debatable. But the infected are a serious threat in the game, the first one at least. Not so much in this show. The biggest problem with it is it makes finding a cure almost irrelevant.
I try to make this argument all the time that they’ve fundamentally changed the characters of Joel and Ellie so much that they are unrecognizable. And all I constantly get back from them is that “they are the complete same”. Like no they are not. Show joel was emotionally vulnerable and nearly incapable of surviving in this neutered safe post apocalyptic world compared the brutal closed off killing machine he was in the game Show Ellie was still a little silly but was a complete rage monster that wanted to fight everyone at all times compared to her more silly, compassionate , pleaser persona she had in the game. The only recognizable thing about Ellie was that she says F*** a lot.
I really don’t get how people say this show is a masterpiece. It’s definitely good and a fine adaptation, but it’s so far from perfect or a masterpiece. If I wasn’t a fan of the games I don’t think I woulda watched the show past 3-4 episodes. It’s a 6 or 7/10.
TLoU is many great things, but I dont think it is a story with much of a commentary on the actual violence itself, which is repeatedly simply necessary in the setting. Dishonored or Spec Ops: The Line do that. TLoU is far more focused on loss and attachment and trauma and trust.
I’m actually really excited to see this analysis because as a major fan of the video game, I actually checked out of the show around episode 3 and couldn’t pinpoint what I didn’t like about it. Thanks for making this video! Excited to see what you say.
I loved Episode 3 as an episode of television, gorgeously done, but that was when I felt like the show was in trouble, because that same portion of the game feels like it should be somewhere around episode 6, with either a much longer first season or the story being split into two seasons. And that rushed feeling just got worse for me as it went along
@@daniel_netzel I just finished watching the video, and I agree with what you say. You make great points. I realized I actually checked out of the show around episode 2 (🤣) and I just came to an early realization that the show wasn’t for me because like you said, everything felt very rushed. The characters didn’t feel like themselves, and it didn’t have the same tone as the game where violence was as infectious as the infected themselves. You also made a good point when you said that Ellie seemed more fascinated by violence in this iteration than she was in the game, which was constantly being horrified by the world around her as she was exposed to more of it. Having her by my side saying “holy shit, Joel,” whether I was killing infected or people made me feel bad, and it actually made her killing David in such a violent way that much more impactful because you get the sense that Ellie *isn’t* a violent person and had to resort to it in order to save herself, which you hate that she has to do but it’s the way of their world. I also think they made Joel too soft in the show because they wanted people to “root” for him, but that felt like a disservice to the original Joel who was very much hardened by violence because of what he experienced. Like you said, there’s nothing wrong with an anti-hero and I would’ve loved to see them go in that direction more. I think the cast and crew are brilliant for what it’s worth, but the adaptation just wasn’t what I was looking for personally and you hit many of the reasons why it failed for me. Great video!
I'm glad I'm not alone! But yeah, that's basically how I felt about it all. Just too much key character changes that make it a different story, while still trying to tell the same story. I agree the cast and crew was phenomenal, no hate on any of them, Bella in particular needs an Emmy for her work, absolutely stunning performance.
@@daniel_netzel Yes, Bella is a talent! But like you said, too many key changes to characters while still trying to tell the same story. The changes in characters recontextualizes decisions (particularly ones made in game), and thus ends up telling a bit of a different story about them. I’m curious if they did that with Joel in particular because of what happens in TLOU2. If memory serves me right, a lot of people were furious that what happened to him happened either way so there was no need to make him softer at all😭. Oh well. Like I said to myself, we always have the games if that’s what we’d like to experience. Thanks again for making this video!
Beautiful job. Today is the day that The Last of Us part 1 comes to PC and can't wait to play it beacuse I want to see what they left out. I personally think they rushed it a little bit but in the other hand I think this is more powerful in terms of bringing video games to TV screens. Keep up the GREAT work Daniel.
Apparently it's not the greatest port at the moment, but hopefully they can patch out a lot of the issues. I've seen reports of lots of crashes and bugs right now though :/ Thank you my dude!
Great video. I really like your take about the "Adaptation" of the game to the movie. When i go to a movie based on a book i want to see that story. Seems obvious. I really hate when a movie or series is supposed to tell the story of a book or video game and they make so many changes that it's not the story i came to see. It's like ordering a bacon cheeseburger and getting tofu soup. No matter how the soup may be, it's not what i ordered. Give me what it says on the tin or it's just a scam. Look at all the machinima made from the game Silent Hill 3 for example. The entire story can be made into a movie that tells the story exactly as it is in the game. Those videos are well liked. The Hollywood movies made huge changes to the story and the characters. The fans hate those movies. Another example is the Mario movies. The 1st one is rightfully hated because it isn't anywhere near what the game is about. The new Mario movie is praised for being so much like the game. Why is this concept so hard to understand?
Having not played the games, I still largely agree with this perspective. The truncation of time when they're traveling felt like a missed opportunity to get quiet, intimate moments. I was expecting a more dangerous, enthralling, road trip, and instead it immediately skipped to their goal. Why was JOEL so necessary? Why couldn't anyone do this? It felt like I was missing episodes, particularly between the penultimate and finale, and I was supposed to just go with it. I still really liked the performances, but I don't know what to expect from the second season.
I was always interested in hearing more from people who hadn't played the games, so thank you for sharing your perspective. Especially considering its main influences(Children of Men, The Road) it really needed to be a more dangerous road trip in my opinion. It's a shame that even with its flaws, The Walking Dead(at least the first 6 seasons or so) is still the superior show of its kind. It makes you feel the danger all the time, but they build beautiful moments of character along the way, and oftentimes marry the two to create truly intense scenes.
I don't know that I necessarily agree that they could have done more episodes. I have no idea what the budget was, but I almost guarantee there were budgetary considerations there. But to your point they definitely could have devoted them differently. Wouldn't be surprised, too, that with s1's success s2 has a bigger budget.
I can't be bothered to find it now, but I read an interview with Craig Mazin where he mentioned that 9 episodes was what they asked for. Budget is always a consideration but it seems HBO was backing it a great deal.
Absolutely insane how this show was run by the writer of the game and creator of the franchise, yet feels like it was sabotaged. Like they wanted to rush through the story of the first game to get to Part II's events, but why? Why speedrun through the half of the franchise that is beloved by all to only get to the events of Part II (that led to one of the most vitriolic and contentious game releases ever seen) and then extend it to being told in seasons 2 and 3? That's something someone who is ambivalent to Part I but loves Part II would do, that's something I would do. Did I write this show? 😳
I 100% felt the same way. That the relationship between Joel and Ellie didn’t feel that deep….on top of everything you said, it felt that Joel and Ellie were almost equals when they met. Ellie was trained by fedra, pegged for leadership. What did Joel have to teach her about violence? pS- I never played the game. I only knew the story from HBO
I really have disagree because you're way too kind...of course you're video on this topic is great and of course they do not have to copy the scenes but there is one thing they didn't care about it's the intensity that's it. Remember the walking dead Negan killing Glenn...remember how everybody was shocked to the core how intense it felt...thats it. The last of us had to be Hardcore Drama but they don't know how it felt because they didn't play the game 🥱
I think they likely had a budget and episode conflict. HBO probably knew they had a hit but still…I mean before this Sonic is your best game adaptions in forever. I imagine they went “you tell this in one season and hook them”. Thus show wasn’t made for gamers as much as it’s a show for new fans to watch with gamers. Yes I think they could of split this into two 7 episode seasons. End right at the college fall. But I have the game, and now show fans have the game. They did it good, I still love the game more but they did this well. We can pick it apart, but I bet a lot of folks aren’t going to be on this granular comparison once season 2/pt 2 happens. I hope they continue remixing and adapting and changing things. We will get a more expanded season but for now…man I’m happy we got the show we did at the level we did.
From what I've read, HBO seemed pretty open to give them more episodes. Also, think of something like Dune. They had no idea how well that would perform or if they'd get to finish the story, but it's better to do something properly even risking leaving the story unfinished than to just condense everything out of that fear.
Very well said. Yeah I also shudder how Craig is planning to handle game 2 for the show considering game 1 was already extremely pacified and game 2 is even more extreme than game 2. I really wish we stopped having these creators who treats all movie and TV show audiences like emotionally and mentally stunted 3 yr olds whose only idea of "character development" and "morally grey characters and stories" comes from the MCU aka none. Like honestly, it felt like Hollywood felt the need to treat their audiences even dumber than before after that franchise became so popular. Some of it is understandable, but they don't seem to grasp the idea that there's another portion of the audience who hates the MCU for that same reason. If anything, part of the reason why I like Last of Us, Red Dead Redemption and Attack on Titan to name a few is because they ain't afraid to go to those extremes to further emphasize the story. Like what happened to the storytelling of the 90s that wasn't afraid to kill off the beloved characters because it's the only way to complete the message of the story? Like geez, I can't even imagine how badly Craig would've pacified Attack on Titan if he ever had to tell that story.
HBO was only committed to 9 episodes likely because of Pedro's schedule. Walter White, Tony Soprano, etc all had dozens of episodes to develop. If Mazin and Druckman had decided to spend the 9 episodes on just Joel/Ellie then they would have had a better developed character piece but lost all the scope that would justify the insane budget HBO obviously spent on this. I fully agree the shortcuts changed the show into a lesser version.
True, but we still see them both as violent very early on. Walter kills someone in the very first episode, and The Sopranos was only meant to be one season at first, establishing Tony as the same fundamental character right off the rip. They just continued the story when the show became such a huge success, but it wasn't about transforming him in any significant way.
I love the games, and also the show. I thought this was a well-balanced critique (and very well-made video), although I don't agree on everything. Violence in a game is very different from violence in a show. I think they wanted to avoid the trap many game adaptations make by include too much of the violence or action. That something is fun to play, doesn't make it fun to watch. And if you make the character in a TV show kill a lot of people (or infected) the feeling of danger goes down, and it makes them seem like an invulnerable superhero. Exactly what they didn't want for Joel. Furthermore, the amount of time that passes in the show is (roughly) the same as in the game. The bounding is there, it is just not shown the same. I do agree with some of your other points, mainly the infected. They should have made them a bigger threat, I think. Could have done that easily by trowing in a few here and there, they needed to sneak by (maybe even throw a brick or bottle). Ps. I got here from your comment on the React content video from DarkViperAU. Wanted to check out your channel and saw something I liked. Will also watch, like and comment on the other TLOU video you made. Trying to do my small part for the algo for creators who obviously deserve it. Keep up the great work.
I definitely hear where you're coming from, I certainly wouldn't want him to feel like a super hero, I just wish he still had that darkness like the games character. That's awesome, thanks dude! I only recently found his channel but he's doing some important work!
Great review. I concur. The lack of development of Ellie and Joel’s relationship is glaring. If I hadn’t played the game, their relationship would’ve seemed forced, and unrealistic. Knowing all they have gone thru, my mind filled in the blanks.
I think it is time in media. I feel you get most time in books, then games, tv and finally movies. It is one of the issues when you turn from one to another source. Yes tv gives you a lot more time compared to movies but no where near the time you can put to games or books. It is also a major issue with Last air bender change from show to movie.
"If I had more time I would have written a shorter letter." Who knew I'd end up making my longest video yet? But I had a lot on my mind after finishing the series, and I'd love to know how everyone else felt about the show.
I’ve really enjoyed the show, especially the Joel Ellie relationship!
Completely agree with all of your points. The show felt very off, very disappointing to me. The only part where I disagree is the flashbacks. They felt more like interruptions than expansions of the story. I thought they took away from the continuous format of the story that the game told much better.
@@iamlsusam
The show was nothing compared to the game and I get the feeling you haven't played the game. Otherwise you wouldn't say that, because their relationship was way more flourished in the game. The emotional moments hit harder in the game as well.
Felt rushed and it felt like they used their platform for their woke agenda. Which is fine if it doesn't take away from the actual story/ characters, but it did.
Meh game was pretty generic kinda ripped off POP 2008 especially the ending.
💯 Agreement. First two episodes are good and pretty faithful adaptations.
Episode 3 is where the messages of the Show fell short of the Games message.
Bill & Frank's story was more This Is Us than The Last Of Us.
They have too perfect a life in a Post-Apocalypse with just the two of them.
Game Bill was surviving on a knife's edge. Struggling to keep the infected at bay.
I think if they reworked the story of the show to mirror the game more.
Have Bill & Frank lose parts of the town. Bill angry at Frank for distractions, and himself for letting things fall apart.
Have life be a struggle for them.
Maybe have a FEDRA vehicle spring one of Bill's Traps, killing the crew, but still making it salvageable.
One problem.
The area would be surrounded by infected from the noise.
Bill says the battery on it is the only way to restore his truck, but he won't risk it to grab it.
Frank goes alone to get the battery, but gets infected.
Now there are two ways they can do this.
1) Go the game route beat for beat.
2) Have Frank return, say Bill was right and apologize. Then have Bill apologize for his cowardice and not helping him.
Frank gets put to rest from poison or drug OD.
Bill buries him in the hole they met in with a strawberry garden as a memorial.
I have some more story changes I'd make, but I'll do it in other comments.
Wish they’d kept the part where Ellie has the chance to escape with Henry and Sam, but jumps down and chooses to stay with Joel. That’s a pivotal moment in their relationship.
I wish they had just given us Sam and Henry without the boring melodrama with Kathleen. The scene where Henry shot Sam was so much more impactful in the game when he had been a cheerful optimist before then. He spoke about barbeques and riding motorcycles, he laughed and smiled. Him having a mental breakdown and shooting himself was heartbreaking.
In the show he was already glum most of the time and guilt-ridden from giving up Michael. Don't even get me started on Michael, they made him sound like Jesus, it was so heavy-handed and hammy.
@@kwk111Neil Druckmann is a narcissist hack who surrounds himself with yes-men and has an inflated ego because of how rabid and insufferable TLOU stans are. Craig Mazin just simply doesnt understand the source material, at all.
I'm really glad I wasn't the only one who felt this way, I absolutely loved the game and still really enjoyed the show largely due to the great performances but by the end I just felt left quite empty by a conclusion that didn't feel natural and a relationship between Joel and Ellie that didn't feel earned. I got so tired of the amount of tell don't show throughout the show about how scary and bad Joel was when the character in the show never felt that way at all.
In the final episode I found it almost comical when Marlene's character talked about how an entire unit of her best men barely made it here, wondering how this terrifying man was able to get here at all... but minus literally two incidents (one of which nearly killed joel) this world never seemed all that threatening or deadly especially when compared to that of the game.
"not a killing machine", did we play the same game? You literally kill hundreds of people throughout the game, if not more. And again, my whole point was that you could still have a lot of impact in those scenes even with violence throughout, like I mention with Game of Thrones. Obviously all of this is subjective, so we can agree to disagree on that idea, but saying Joel is not a killing machine in the game is just objectively wrong lol
@@serbio26 I think the issue is that, considering the amount of times it has characters talk about his reputation, the show still wants Joel to be seen the same way he was in the game but doesn't really earn it. I guess the point could be that he was more capable in the past, but to me that feels like a weird trade off since Joel's aging and loss of confidence don't really factor in much during the big moments in this story.
Eh a show won't be exactly like a game just joelenellie the whole time would be boring as hell, seriously have someone play the game who only watched the show they will most likely be bored as hell.
@@StarRain6 🤣
The relationship between Joel and Ellie that didn't feel earned? How many times do you have to put your life on the line or save someone's life in order to earn a relationship?
Daniel, you managed to materialize my thoughts and feelings about the series that I didn't even fully develop. You made them clear, with a perfect choice of words and editing of the scenes from the series and the game. Thank you for this, can't wait for the next essay.
Thank you so much for the kind words!
You nailed it right off the bat; the game is all about Ellie and Joel's relationship, and the show didn't give them enough time together. If they wanted to expand the story, have 13 episodes, or spread it over two seasons. Once Joel fully embraces Ellie in ep 9, it felt rushed, like he was being deceptive.
This was my big problem with Ep 3. I'm all for seeing more of Bill, but what a waste of time when it hurts Joel and Ellie's arc.
I find that’s more of a problem with tv as a whole nowadays, not just tlou. Most shows nowadays are only 8 or so episodes long with about 50 minutes or so of runtime. Granted, I think most of the shows I’ve watched do about the best they can with such a tight frame, tlou included, but the common complaint of shows being “too rushed” could easily be fixed by having more than 8 episodes
Another thing that made David’s moment slightly worse was how Joel and Ellie were attacked at the university by his man, they had sneakily escaped, posed no threat, they could’ve been left alone but David’s dumb man attacked him with a stick. They killed in self defense. So when David’s giving his big speech and says a “Crazy” man attacked and was traveling with a little girl doesn’t hit like it does in the game. In the game you HAD to kill at least 5-7 guys between Joel and Ellie and it was brutal. So it made sense to call him a “crazy man” but in the show it just doesn’t work. They want the big pay offs from the game without laying groundwork.
But in the game, David’s men attacked first as well. And Ellie still argues with David that they didn’t have a choice, just to a lesser degree.
Totally agree. I also thinking not having David and Ellie have to work together fighting infected was a mistake. You start to trust David while you fight with him so when he turns on you it is even more impactful.
@@PeachesandCream225agree I knew that David was bad from the start but despite it I was still shocked how fucked up he was. In the show David tells ellie straight away about knowing Joel, in the game he installs a fake sense of security and ellie having control when we learn that he was in control all the time. It was a perfect example of grooming. In the series we know David is bad straight away with how he deals with his community. Ellie knows not to trust him in the game from the start but she still becomes closer to him after fighting together and we as players do the same so the revelation was impactful
Yeah, also the actor does an alright job as this "manipulative preacher," but he doesn't scream David imo. I pictured Steven Ogg in the role, and it felt way better.
@@PeachesandCream225 this is maybe the least important aspect of game David that the show David was lacking, but note-worthy enough: in the game David had dark-gray scruffy hair and beard. This gave him a slight abstract resemblance to Joel. There was a subtle sense of familiarity to him, for the player and in-universe for Ellie. This added to the sense that maybe he could be trusted.
It's really important that this video exists. Among the sea of praise the show is getting (and rightfully so), it's still not above scrutiny. And rather than some of the typical UA-cam vids that just want to fawn over or trash a popular thing, it is valuable to have *real critical analysis* from those who don't just love the source material, but UNDERSTAND the reasons why the source material works the way it does.
This is truly excellent stuff. Needless to say, I agree with virtually all of it. I don't think anything in the show reaches Game of Thrones S8 levels, but otherwise yea. The lack of infected, and rushed relationship at the center of the story are the big issues, but I love your examination of both Joel and Ellie's individual characters. On a surface level, everything is there, but there's a nuance to knowing how subtle personality changes have an effect on how their arcs read onscreen. A less violent Joel and a more assertive Ellie both feel to me like the show coded these characters based on how they are in Part 2, but it retroactively alters how Part 1 feels.
I can't say I'm a fan of the cordycepts changes either, since the fungal network and tendril mouths were more to set up a shocking moment violating Tess, than anything that actually factors into the story ever again. Over-explaining Ellie's immunity now creates plot holes (she would have been scanned living with FEDRA and it would have come up). I could go on, bringing up Kathleen, but I really don't want to sound ungrateful, because HBO really has achieved something special with this series. It's hard for me to call the adaptation a failure when casual audiences still reacted to all the key beats exactly the way the story intended. And that's what's most important.
I appreciate you saying so! I rarely get negative on this channel so whenever I do, I make sure I put in the time to get it right. I think nitpicky channels like Cinema Sins are just bad for film criticism, and I'd hate to get lumped into that category lol
This is exactly how I felt when I finished the show the ending didn’t feel earned and the show could’ve definitely benefited with more time and more care given to the protagonists. A big issue I had was how obvious it was that David was a cannibal from the moment the episode began it was clear they were eating people and that David was crazy with zero ambiguity and no time to think maybe David was a good person something that was present in the game.
I didn't think it was immediately obviously he was a cannibal, but I definitely agree that they made him seem quite slimy right off the bat, which totally lessens the moment when Ellie finds out the truth.
Fully agree. We played through Part 2 when the show was on and one of the biggest differences was the lack of THREAT we felt when watching the show. Obviously we knew the broad beats they would explore, but it really lacked the tension from the infected. I think it would have been best to end season 1 at the conclusion of the Sam & Henry plotline, and fill it out with more episodes of them struggling to survive, fight and gather precious resources - whilst also bonding more
I was literally thinking the same thing. Perfect cutoff point for a first season that would have allowed them to do everything they needed. Even if those moments were totally different from what we saw in the game, just anything to build more tension that enforced their bonding
I have been waiting for someone else to articulate this for ages I’m so glad that you have so succinctly here. Wonderfully written and excellently put
I appreciate you saying so!
This is a take that I didn’t really consider, especially having played the games for as long as I have. Very well-made video
It's not the take I intended, but yeah, I had a lot of thoughts on the show lol. thanks for watching!
Omg thank you! I was trying to explain to my friends who haven't played the game why this show needed to be longer and bleaker, the world is supposed to feel scary and awul so that when you get to those brief moments of hope and peace they really make an impact. The pacing felt so wrong to me, it genuinely didn't seem like the post apocalypse was all that bad which makes the stakes far less intense. And ditto with the Joel and Ellie relationship the pay off of the final scene is very much not rewarding when the relationship was so rushed, he was way to soft at the beginning of the show for me, the great character arc for him fell flat because it felt more like emotional whiplash. He would be fine then snap, especially with the Ellie fight when he tried to dump her on his brother, that didn't feel like show Joel at all because his character was so different. The ending too. I wasn't mad at the show just let down. It didn't feel lazy and I could tell a lot of people involved really cared but all in all it fell apart for me.
Exactly, I would never call anyone who worked on this show lazy, and in many ways everyone did some incredible work, especially the cast and crew. But all these rushed feelings totally killed my enjoyment of the show, and it left me feeling more disappointed the more I watched.
Well theres only 9 episodes of course it wont cover every little thing, did you want the uncharted movie to be 15 hours too?
@@StarRain6 I think to fix it's pacing issues it should have been either a 20 episode series or split the story of the first game into 2 seasons. So essentially yes I think it needed to be closer to 15 hours to round out the world and characters.
And no I don't think the Uncharted movie needed that since the games aren't as story heavy and the movie was a much looser adaptation of that source material.
@@pongo5000 20 episodes of joelenellie would be atrocious. Its not just about joelenellie adventures ugh.
@@StarRain6 For starters although yes the show would have more time for the Joel and Ellie relationship to develop which I think would be helpful, with 20 episodes it would obviously be more than that. I don't know what even gave you that idea. More episodes could lead to more world building, more actual Infected being shown and various characters given more time to be developed on screen. You're assuming quite a lot of a theoretical show runtime.
If you personally like the length of the show then fair enough. I found it weirdly paced and that it rushed through some character and plot developments so wish they had given it more episodes.
Also tbh although it's not JUST about "JoelnEllie adventures" as you called it they are literally the focal point of the game and show. They are the driving force and their character arcs are dependent on eachother. If you think 20 episodes of their story (which is literally the point of the show) would be atrocious, I really don't get what you're even getting out of the show.
Very little infected, missing character beats, Ellie's immunity explanation, thank you for clarifying the major problems I had with this adaptation. Production, acting, and music were all stellar, but there are indeed important elements that were lost in translation.
I loath Ellie's immunity explanation.
With their explanation, the infected should just ignore Ellie.
@@Good_Boy_3000 Not only that, but if that's what made Ellie immune, then why don't the fireflies just get a pregnant woman and have her get bit when she gives birth again? Realistic? No. But neither is their explanation!
@@SeparateWay I bet they could just dissect an infected for the mycelium mouth tendrils and get exposure that way.
@@Good_Boy_3000 to be fair thats just a doctors theory, the same doctor who was gonna steal her brain to make a miracle cure.
@@SeparateWay Ellie's mother could of already been immune.
the show was entirely too short for me to buy into joel and ellie's relationship. they really needed to give it more time and substance
Well too late for that now. Neil's gonna make Joel meet golf club *again.*
This video deserves way more attention. I agree completely as someone who loves The Last of Us and I felt similarly that others had missed the ways the series fell short of the game. It's hard to live up to one of the best stories in gaming, but they did have the tools.
Like, when Halo was getting adapted, I knew it would be a let down. The creators didn't seem to even be fans of the game, and Amazon? They're not even in the same ballpark as HBO lol So I had I hopes for TLOU, but yeah, the game is still far superior to me
You articulated so many of my thoughts in this video. Especially about the function of the Bill section for Joel. At this point Joel's motivation is simply honour Tess' dying wish. Bill's advice to ditch her serves as an viable alternative for Joel. Having him choose to reject Bill's advice felt like a small but crucial decision because it gave Joel agency in this mission to deliever Ellie himself. Instead Joel's motivations without this crucial decision could as well be just being guilt tripped by Tess or conveniently already heading out to find Tommy so I might as well.
Excellent point! Their farewell together really makes it clear too, that Joel is actively making this choice that Bill disagrees with, even saying to him something like "you're never gonna make it."
Could not agree more. After a few episodes in, I realised there was something off with this adaptation, but I couldn't see anyone else doing anything other than singing the shows' praises.
You are 100% correct. There is not enough time spent with Joel and Ellie. We constantly cut to the perspective of others when we should stay with theirs for the majority of the show. Its not important why adversaries act the way they do, through some deviating back story side plot, only how Joel and Ellie perceive their confrontations.
The game represents a near year long journey with Joel and Ellie and the pacing of the game really makes you feel this. The show doesnt make it feel like the two characters have spend much time together at all. All of Joels character changes come spilling out far too easy, rather than having the change dragged out of him against his will.
One big upset for me was the scene where Ellie first kills a human with a gun. In the game, Joel scolds her instead of thanking her and its a brilliant show of his mindset at the time, how he is purposely keeping her at distance. The TV shows version of this scene skips the scolding and jumps straight into an emotional one. It is no longer a scene for Joel, but one for Ellie instead, and it is inferior.
The TV show ending didnt land for me at all. No one who played the game in 2013 can forget how gobsmacking the ending of the game was. Players experienced a cocktail of shock, disgust, shame, and heartbreak upon initial completion of the game as the weight of Joels actions dwelled on them. The show in comparison just felt flat.
This is a fair and calculated review! Well Done! Craig Mazin needs to hear this feedback. I hope that these humble criticisms can break through all the praise and be taken seriously.
This is an incredibly well articulated and level headed take. It’s been a very odd feeling as the show has received near universal praise, specifically for being a “masterpiece adaption”, but it’s refreshing to see some folks in the comments and otherwise who are as passionate about the source material who have felt like lunatics for not being enraptured by the show.
The beautiful part about it receiving so much love as a series is that even as a dietary version of the story, it still connected with people so strongly, which is a testament to the power of the game. But it’s like hearing Taylor Swift doing a kazoo-only cover of a Led Zeppelin song (no disrespect to T-Swizzle) or taking the ingredients of a delicious casserole and putting it all in a blender, raw, unbaked and lacking proper nutritional sustenance 🫰
Anyway, this was a truly excellent video, and I hope people go into it with an open mind.
Bro be careful, the Swifties are everywhere.
Hey now, I like Taylor Swift well enough lol. I said “no disrespect”, but I suppose that doesn’t mean **** to some. But I don’t care how talented she is, NOBODY can pull off a kazoo cover of “The Rain Song”. And I stand by that haha
Huge video. Thank you for this undertaking. I particularly agree with your point that the more poignant moments of the show did not feel earned, and it wasn't until I watched your video that I understand why I felt that way as the show aired.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching :)
Completely agree with your analysis and conclusion on why they missed the boat! Love the series but making 9 episodes to cover the first game was not enough.
My other post was kind of long, so I thought I'd break it up into more than one. Another thing I didn't like about the show as compared to the game: Like you said, they took their time with Joel warming up to Ellie and their bonding (in the game). One could SEE what was happening through their actions and dialogue. In the show they kind of threw it in the viewer's face (in case they're too stupid to get it, I guess?), and rushed it. Like Henry saying something like, "You're not her father, but you were someone's." As if the viewer can't realize that Ellie is going to be important to him at some point, as Sarah was. We don't need a hammer blow to the head with that stuff. Show, don't tell, and all that. There was another line of dialogue that was a little too on the nose, too, in that same vein, but I forget what it was or what episode it was in. (Edit: I think it was the Bill and Frank episode when Ellie was reading the note that Bill left. Saying he found that one person to make everything worthwhile and "saved him." BAM! Thanks, show, just in case we miss it completely later on * eyeroll * )
And I really hated that they focused on some little fairy tale life for Bill and Frank (yeah, okay, two DECADES - in an APOCALYPSE - of all the food you can eat and all the wine you can drink and very little Infected or Hunters coming to take it away), instead of having a jaded Bill, as you've said, showing how Joel could end up with no one going that route. And I missed the Bill/Ellie interactions. Bill's Town in the game was one of the best parts and they just ruined it.
There's more, but this is getting long, too.
lmao that's how I felt writing this video! Every time I thought I was done I had more issues that I wanted to talk about, and hence the 33 minute length lol. Honestly I still felt like I had more to complain about, but then this video would just be 4 hours long and it'd have taken me months to finish XD
@@daniel_netzel Right? 😄 If I wanted to cover everything I wanted to cover, I'd just have to make my own damn video. (No one's going to read a two page length essay in the comment section, heh.)
Dude finally someone gets it. I thought i was going crazy with all the praise. I felt like it was a bit more shallow and missed a lot of the major themes and subtleties of the game. Thank you for understanding how these "minor changes" fundamentally change the characters.
Honestly, if the show had managed to (narratively) translate everything the game did it would still be the lesser version by virtue of the visuals not being able to stack up, and the musical score not being where it needs to. But more importantly the game had Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson, who have a quintessential chemistry with one another that Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey simply can't compete with. The unsung succes of The Last of Us (game) is really those two actors working so well together.
While I think that Pedro and Bella were amazing, and had some terrific chemistry, I do agree that there's just no competing with Troy and Ashley, they were pitch perfect every step of the way.
excellent video!
You are very correct about the number of infected people shown in the series and the elimination of the spores; the infection lost much narrative weight.
In the last episode I was thinking; If Bill and Frank, the elderly couple at the cavin or the members of the commune, can live peacefully, Eli's sacrifice is simply unnecessary.
Thank you man. I appreciate you putting out a lot of the stuff I was keying into while watching and no one else was saying. Keep at the dream; you got something to say and I'm really grateful you said it
I appreciate that!
Amazing analysis, thank you for that.
My thoughts - whilst the show had its moments, it was not at the level of HBO quality say some scenes here and there, and two or three episodes that all the others paled too much in comparison, and which really could have been short stories unrelated to the rest of the series. The exclusion of the spores was a very strange decision considering us as the audience could have sympathised with a world where air born particles were a major risk and masks a necessity called upon in certain situations. Why they talked about the hive mind of the infected but never touched on it again I do not know.
I felt show Bella was over acting in some parts, being an unnecessary bad ass or overly swearing in scenes that did not ask for it. In game Ellie was a sweet innocent child, with some fire, struggling with the burden of existence that starts to weight on all of us from the transition of childhood into adolescence - the realisation that the world is not the Disney we all thought it was. Add this to the reality of the environment she exists in, and her burden, we see her slow corruption through Joel’s instinctual parenting, and the necessities of survival in that world.
Pedro was a poor choice for Joel. He is too soft, in game Joel cannot break down, a hardened shell of a man made by what he has had to endure. He cares not for death, or emotions, he lost all of that the day his daughter died. He simply goes on because it is in his nature, he survives on instinct in the same way he parents on instinct. Ellie is in direct contrast to this, and the reason why they are the perfect catalyst for changing one another with their opposing forces, a yin and yang so to speak. I did not feel this in the show. Both Bella and Pedro’s reactions and actions in many situations were not reflective of the characters the show was attempting to build. There was very little rapport to justify their love for one another let alone enough chemistry.
The inclusion of flash backs was a nice touch that gave necessary exposition, and gave those of us who played the games something new to work with, however they were not consistent which I feel would have added a nice touch if included in every episode. CGI was off in some parts too and looked at least a decade old in terms of quality.
I did enjoy many aspects of the show, however the game was a perfect 10 for its ability to derive an emotional response that no game came close to. The scenes of respite in the game, those moments where conversation naturally took place, that was everything. We grew with the characters, understood them. In the show, we did not.
A caveat - I like both Bella and Pedro. But they had no business in these roles. The heads of the show wanted to stand out above other shows, yet they messed with a recipe that made a perfect cake more than was necessary.
perfectly articulated. i haven’t played the game for years, so I sensed something was off about the show but couldn’t put my finger on what changes sunk the show so hard. you described it exactly.
well done!
Some really good points here that I definitely agree with. Refreshing to hear as I've only seen praise for this show and not much in the way of actual criticism
Such a great video. Reflects exactly how I've been feeling about the show. Feels like a genuine relief that someone else was thinking on my wavelength.
It's been cathartic seeing so many comments feel the same way, on this video and elsewhere online, scrolling through IMDb reviews of the final episode shows a lot of people feeling similarly.
@@daniel_netzel Absolutely!
I 100% agree with all your takes on this. This video needs exponentially more views. It was a great adaptation but I finished it feeling almost indifferent by the end because it just…wasn’t the same story.
For me I loved episode 3, and a good amount of the backstory was interesting. I just don’t like that the cost of that backstory was losing what felt like 1/3 of an already short show. Your point on making the finale- the shortest episode- start with that flashback….it’s just like disrespectful almost lol.
You hit all the points that I was thinking. They really needed to cut the episode with Bill to show more of ehat happened at the university and show more of the cannibal section. They should not have been afraid to show the brutal violence from the game. I too, am afraid from season 2.
Spoilers: I hope they don't kill Joel off soon since in the show we haven't spent that much time with him to show how much he matters to Ellie.
Great video.
Ah, THANK YOU for this video. I think you really hit on something here. I've never played this game, but I've watched others play on UA-cam and I've watched "movie" versions on here where people paired the cut scenes with the parts of the game that they got through successfully, and I really love the story. I watch it a lot and it's one of my favorite stories of any medium.
I, too, think the HBO series was rushed and I didn't like the changes they made to the characters. That's NOT Joel, NOT Ellie, definitely NOT Tess and definitely NOT Bill. The actors did fine with what they were given, and it was an okay series, just like an alternate universe of the story, but it just missed a lot of things. I was complaining on another video that there weren't enough Infected in the series and no matter how many times I said "I KNOW it's about Joel and Ellie and other things and not just 'some zombie show'", other commenters were, well, complaining about my complaint, and saying things like "it's not some shooty-shooty-bang-bang video game, it's a SHOW." Duh. I said I KNOW that.
Anyway, I got so frustrated with the commenters not getting where I was coming from, I ended up just deleting my comment (along with all their responses, heh). You've said it a lot better than what I was trying to convey. I kind of wish I had kept my comment up, I would have just directed everyone to this video to shut them up.
I was disappointed with the show. But, hopefully it will make a lot more people watch the game version.
It's one of my favorite stories too, genuinely moved me in a way that I have rarely experienced in life. But yeah, the comments are a mixed bag, plenty are willing to engage in a discussion but there are a LOT of fans who just spam hate at anyone who has a critical opinion of the show, and it's happening all over twitter and reddit too, some people just can't handle hearing a different perspective
@@daniel_netzel Yes, this. People take everything so personally and just get violent over the simplest things. It's like - hey, I'm not attacking YOU personally, I just have a different opinion than you do, which I am entitled to. We can agree to disagree and not throw insults and hate at everybody. But everyone's so negative and nasty about everything on the 'net these days. They see different opinions as a personal affront and "hear" the opposing view in their heads as "yelling" when the person writing the comment meant no such thing. Everybody in the universe doesn't have to have the same opinions or like the same things. Sheesh.
Couldnt agree more, i felt they became best friend in a snap of fingers
I’m so glad you made this and happy you made the Game of Thrones comparison (in a few ways). Like you said with GoT: the storytelling and character development do not have to be a separate thing from the violence. They go well together, so it’s upsetting the show takes so much away there where Game of Thrones kept its violence impactful to the very end (in my opinion).
The other GoT comparison is one I’ve made as well; they’re both rushed. I find it strange that Game of Thrones gets so much hate for its last season or two for being rushed, but The Last of Us is getting praised when it does the same thing. It just really confuses me to be honest.
Great critique. When some friends told me that the show had surpassed the game, I strongly disagreed, while having many of your points in mind. I said that in order to justify my opinion, I'd have to elaborate a lot. If my friends spoke English I'd send this video to them.
It was amusing how everyone on the journey (Tess, Bill, Henry, etc.) would stop and directly tell Joel the same "do ANYTHING for the ones you love" message. Cut to them as Star Wars ghosts applauding as he blasts his way through a hospital full of allies and the last hope of humanity.
Brilliant video essay, couldn't agree more. Although I belong to the shameful minority of people who haven't played the game yet, I'm still in awe and amazement every time I see the gameplay videos on UA-cam. And you were very spot on with that GOT comparison. Theoretically, the plot points do make sense, but in action they fall short because of the limited runtime. Best of luck for the future videos and warmest greetings from Iran❤
Thank you! Not everyone has access, or the ability to play these games, but watching through gameplay on UA-cam is still totally valuable. I missed out on Demon's Souls forever ago (never had a PS3) so I watched a playthrough, nowhere near the same but I'm glad I still got to see what that game was all about. But for TLOU? It's arguably the best game to just sit and watch in the first place lol, it's so cinematic and film-like even in the gameplay but especially the cutscenes, and as long as you're seeing more than just the cutscenes, you can still be totally immersed in that world.
Season 1 felt like a missing opportunity. The cast was great, showrunners were great, they just should have given us a bit more like 10-12 episodes.
Yeah it felt rushed. I did not expect the emotional winter part to be done in one episode...
Show should've been longer. Also, every single emotional moment hit way waaayyy harder in the game.
The cast is bad.
The cast was terrible. Pascal was more like a soft tampon wearing version of Joel and Ramsay is far too annoyingly upbeat for someone in the apocalypse and completely misses the light and shade personality of Ellie.
@@drewkiely901 10 seconds of seeing Ellie from the series and I stoped watching it. Polar opposite.
If it's a missed opportunity in your eyes then how come the showrunners are great?
It skims through the plot and adds unnecessary fillers and the fillers are just agenda...
Also the cast is bad
I agree man, on a technical level, the show was great: vfx, score, set design, acting(in some cases), but I also have a few issues. Mainly that I felt that the overall first season didn’t feel as organic as it should’ve been, the separate stories or events were good on there own but as a whole I don’t think they fit well. As far as adaptions of video games go it’s really good, but I can’t say I’m in love with the show. I feel weird about it because it does a lot right but I’m just not into like a majority of people.
I agree! And it's strange because Chernobyl follows so many different POVs and they all work perfectly, but yeah they just didn't mesh all that well for me, it just feels like a lot of disparate stories at the end of the world rather than any focused narrative, and that focused narrative is a huge part of what made the game so memorable for me.
I think the fact that Joel is not as ruthless in the show makes his rampage at the end feel much more significant and impactful. When faced with the potential death of his new daughter, he goes from a violent but not that ruthless guy, and turns into a killing machine willing to do anything to not have to face that loss again. Had he been just as brutal from the start, the final rampage would have just felt like more of the same, and not the emotionally-driven brutal act of selfishness and fear that it was in the show.
I get where you're coming from, it's clearly how the writers of the show felt, but that's where I disagree. Most of the violence in the game is clear self defense, everyone in that world immediately tries to kill you so we just kill them first. There's still a vast difference between killing a bunch of cannibals who were trying to eat you or raiders who just shoot on sight, and mowing down scientists and soldiers who are literally just trying to save the world. To me in the show it just felt off because we even see other characters who have lost children(Maria) or characters who deeply care for Ellie(Marlene), but neither of them are going on a mass shooting to protect someone and I think the whole point is that this is not just a universal reaction, other people faced with this choice would make the right decision, or would find another way of saving Ellie that didn't involve murdering a bunch of innocent people.
And again, this is kind of the entire point of TLOU Part 2, which is why this is such a sticking point for me. I feel like all of the emotional weight behind that story stems from the idea that some people just really don't know how to handle loss.
But I appreciate your thoughtful comment. It's refreshing to see someone say more than just "L take bozo" and actually offer some genuine opinions.
@@daniel_netzel I struggle to get your point, in utter honesty. Joel reacted like none of the mentioned characters probably would have reacted because, well, he's a different character indeed but, quite most importantly, there are different circumstances and characterisics at hand. First, Joel ain't like Maria or Marlene. He has no attachment whatsover to a particular community, nor feel responsible for them or the whole world, he feels responsible only for Ellie and his brother. Them aside, he's basically a cynical survivalist loner. That's an aspect that alone brings weight towards making a choice over another.
Secondly, Maria lost a child and so did Joel, except losing Ellie would have meant going through that trauma a whole second time. Again, Maria may love Tommy but she's a leadership figure surrounded by a whole community she's clearly in touch with. For Joel, Ellie is an abundant 3/4 of his world. The same applies to Marlene: she leads a revolutionary group and is in touch with a specific community, in this case the type of community acting as "freedom fighters" who hold the ambition of saving the whole world. And she indeed cares for Ellie, but mostly because (in the show) she made a promise to her mother, and is merely protecting her from afar; nothing even barely comparable to actively risk your life to protect her for months, sharing traumatic experiences and overcoming immense obstacles together, protecting and caring for each other all the way through. The bond formed in that way is way, way, way more adamant and visceral. Last but not least, Marlene and the Fireflies rushed way too fast towards the goal of murdering Ellie to get the vaccine/cure, making Joel unable to emotionally process what the fuck was happening. The cold, almost scorn attitude of the Fireflies (both in the game and show but possibly even more in the second) just added insult to injury; for someone struggling to emotionally process the situation and coming from a whole 20 years of unresolved trauma, those Firefly soldiers symbolized the wolrd delivering the ultimate spit on his face.
On the general argument regarding the failure of adaptation, I'll agree to disagree because I think the disagreement comes from an entirely different perspective or, if one prefers, ideological/philosophycal take. To me adaptation means exactly what it says, adapting: and adapting means bending, enough to fit a different environment without ever breaking. That's what "adaptation" means to me. You gain things you didn't get, and you lose some along the way, and that's because the two mediums ain't superior to one another, they are just very different and will inevitably get different results, but I think the show has been faithful to the source as much as it could reasonably be. But again, this is my very specific perspective. Beyond that, I do believe the show has its own proper flaws but I blame them to budget contraints rather than fundamental flaws in the writers' vision. I mean, the budget was still considerable (and it showed) but this first season remained a bet that may have struggled to pay itself, if something worked the wrong way.
Exactly his point makes no sense
Of course these are different characters with different circumstances, but my point was that mass murder is just not a default setting for most people, regardless of what's at stake. Some faced with the same choice would make the sacrifice for the greater good, but even the most protective parents would do anything to find another way of saving their child, most people wouldn't just kill without mercy and go full terminator mode regardless of the situation.
I think such extreme action from Joel needs to have its precedent, the breadcrumbs that can build to such an act of atrocity. People don't just become mass shooters overnight, and the game's Joel is clearly established as incredibly violent as soon as we take control after the prologue, but HBO Joel spends half of the show demonstrating the opposite, he tries to defuse conflict, not escalate it.
So ultimately that is where it fails as an adaptation for me, naturally no story is going to translate perfectly or identically when switching mediums, but in your words you describe bending, not breaking, and these changes did break it for me. But of course we can agree to disagree, I know plenty of people loved the show, and I envy you guys, I really do. But yeah, all of these changes were much more than nitpicks for me, it may seem like hyperbole from your perspective but I genuinely mean it when I say that this fell apart completely as an adaptation for me.
I think the show highlights one of the problems with the original game's ending, namely that the game's ending fails to make the possibility of the cure under the circumstances and the cost to achieve it believable. The show (I can't recall how the game approaches it) attempts to frame the situation as a moral debate around consent; Joel points out that the Fireflies lied to Ellie and are sacrificing her without asking her, that what happens to her life isn't their choice. Marlene attempts to equivocate by saying it isn't up to him either, suggesting he's being just as selfish; she speculates that Ellie would have chosen to do the right thing. Joel remains silent in the face of this, but that's an artifice of the writing forcing Joel's silence so that he can't be allowed to give the obvious retort: that, if Marlene believes Ellie would have given her her consent, why didn't she ask her? As a question of consent, the Fireflies are forcing Ellie to give up her life, and Joel is saving her from being forced. Ellie was not given a chance to choose by the Fireflies; Joel was not given a chance to *ask* by the Fireflies.
The way the show frames the conversation, Joel is objectively correct to have done what he did. Even as a utilitarian debate between the needs of the many (the world) outweighing the needs of the few (Joel, Ellie), the game and the show both fail to make the argument for the sacrifice being a worthwhile thing. Indeed, the second game outright gives us the answer, that the surgeon couldn't find a cure despite having experimented on several other subjects; unwittingly, Joel's cover story to Ellie after she wakes in the car is the god's honest truth. And really, what more can be expected from a so called surgeon with only a bachelor's in biology? I mean, do they have the manufacturing facilities needed to develop the cure, produce it, and disseminate it? And who gets the cure anyway? I'm sure all the Fireflies get it, but who else, I have to wonder?
The game and the show are both hyper realistic settings, but the ending of the first game, and the position the second game seems to take around Joel's final choice, requires you to engage in purely magical thinking, wherein your disbelief and basic critical thinking skills have to be abruptly jettisoned to accept its premise. That's why damn near everyone sides with Joel; the Fireflies simply don't make their case, and Joel has to be actively prevented from defending himself through the artifice of the Writer to allow the uncertainty within the narrative to stand on its flimsy foundations. This is one of the biggest problems people have with the second game, that despite all available evidence clearly pointing to Joel having done the right thing, the narrative insists his choice was monstrous and selfish, and he isn't allowed to defend his choice in the myriad of obvious ways.
Whatever the show, and the game, were trying to say or encourage the audience to consider, it fails because the premise of the ending doesn't add up; to most people, Joel made the right choice, and that was enough.
I haven’t seen the show so I can’t comment on it, but my feeling when they announced the show was, this must be for people who haven’t played the game. For me, the game told its story well enough that I didn’t have any interest in seeing a remake, particularly when it looks virtually identical to the original.
you said it best. it just "looks" like the original.
One of my biggest issues with the show is that even though Pedro Pascal is a good actor, is that he doesnt look much like Joel from the videogame.
Now Hugh Jackman, as well as Gerard Butler, yes those two do bear a strong resemblance to him. In fact, I would say Gerad Butler is a more apropiate choice, given that Hugh Jackman is like 6'3ft, while Joel is an man more of average height, I assume, and Jackman might look a little too imposing a figure when you see him onscreen.
Another person I think was miscast was frankly the girl who played Ellie. In fact I think the girl who played the youngest daughter on Last Man Standing, would've been a better fit.
Fantastic analysis. 100% agree with your take here. Your deep understanding of theme, character, and story are very evident in this critique. Well done.
This is THE best analysis I’ve seen on the series. You hit the nail in the head a dozen times. Awesome work!!
I think you have really figured this out nicely...the whole conundrum of changing aspects of the game story vs maintaining the game storyline in piecewise fashion, leading to "problems" in the show.
This is a good video. I have some similar complaints as you (although it looks like I may be more positive overall on it, I'm at like a 4/5 for the show while the game is a 5/5). It feels like the show could have used at least 1 more episode to give us more just Joel and Ellie time. I will say in the shows defense I watched it with a few other people who hadn't played the game and they didn't have the same complaints I had, at least not to the same extent. Or at least it didn't seem to really bother them as much. Obviously that's a small sample size, but it is interesting
I do wish we had more infected and I do wish Joel was shown as more brutal and Ellie as less so. Showing Ellie as immediately vicious was one of my first (and maybe biggest) problem with this adaption
Also I hope you don't get too much hate for this video. The Last of Us fandom is weird, you have the ultra positive and the extremely negative and it can be a big shit show. I enjoy this reasoned take from you and understand it comes from a love for the source material
Well it's already my most disliked video, so off to a great start I guess lol People have already been spamming dislikes without even watching it just because I have a critical opinion, which is pretty sad, but what can ya do? lol
@@daniel_netzel Ha yeah it happens sadly. At least you never made a video specifically about Part II, that brings out fanatics on a whole new level. I use to visit the last of us subreddit but since the show has started it feels like criticism isn't welcomed much at all, but then the Part II subreddit is just a massive hate boner. So really it's hard to find a good place where disagreements are not downvoted completely and discussion can actually happen
I watched a lot of great creators get blasted with hate, and obviously the game itself, it was a really ugly time to be honest. People treated Part II like the worst thing to ever happen to art, and I could not disagree more.
I also watched the series with people who didn't play the game, didn't have the same complaints and they really liked it, especially the first 5 episodes. After episode 5 they felt it was rushed. I think that's the biggest complain from everyone, whether they played the game or not.
Excellent breakdown! All your arguments felt so considered and robust yet also easy to follow - both in the script and visual editing. Good on you for getting this point of view out there.
(and equally big props to you for replying to so many comments here).
Great video, Daniel. Well done.
Many thanks!
Nice to see you back. This is brilliant. Thankyou.
Thank you!
EXACTLY! I watched the first episode and thought it was a great adaptation. Then the ending with the soldier came and immediately knew this show was not going to be as good as the game. The scene was changed very slightly. But that change immediately made me realize the writers on this (who btw weren't the same as on the first game despite what they want you to believe) don't understand the story.
In the game Joel and Tess end up killing the soldiers, but it's not to protect Ellie. It's to protect themselves. They are two people who will do anything to survive and in this case they use the distraction of Ellie stabbing the guy testing her to kill the soldiers. Then right after they question Ellie about her infection before being forced back on the run.
In the show Ellie does end up stabbing the soldier as well, but they don't manage to get the upper hand regardless and get held at gunpoint, which I feel like the soldier would just fire at that point in that world. But he doesn't and Joel just somehow charges straight at him and doesn't get shot in the head.
This short little sequence already mischaracterizes Joel in a couple of ways that are very crucial.
1. He and Tess are not the expert smugglers who can deal with hordes of "zombies" and people at a time. No they are actually quite incompetent as they get the jump on a guy pissing, get held at gunpoint having to bargain everything just to survive. Then when Ellie stabs the soldier they still can't overpower him and only kill him when Joel by the grace of god doesn't get shot point blank.
2. Joel is already attached to Ellie and sees her as his daughter. So much so that he would give up his life for her sake.
There are couple of smaller characterizations, but this kinda captures the gist.
I didn't play the game and I adored the show, but I appreciate your nuanced take on the flaws of this adaptation!
Well glad someone agrees with me !
Well put my friend, great job and great analysis.
Thank you!
The Kathleen storyline was a big miss for me. It placed too much focus on melodrama involving a bland nothing character the writers did nothing substantive with, when the audience would've been happy with the focus entirely on Sam and Henry for those episodes.
I know this might be a controversial video to publish, but I'm very excited to watch it. I think 1-2 more episodes with just Joel and Ellie would have solved a lot of my issues w/ the show.
haven't been this nervous uploading in a while tbh
@@daniel_netzel you shouldn't be
@@daniel_netzel Vid is a banger. Thanks for making it!
If you want the full last of us experience, play the game.
If you want the "The last Filler of us" watch the show.
I think the main obstacle that every adaptation of a videogame to a different medium has to circumvent is the fact that videogames are an interactive form of art. That is their primary strength.
When you try to adapt something as specifically made to be played as The Last of Us, that has a narrative so entangled with it's gameplay, you must make use of all the unique strengths of the new medium, that being TV in this case.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The show is really well made, well acted, with great production values; but as an adaptation, which it clearly tries to be, it falls short of the game. I think if they had divided the story of the first game into two seasons, maybe it would have turned better, specially for the character work and building up the relationships between them.
Although, to be honest, I would've much preferred that they told us a different story than just retreading the same one with Joel and Ellie. I see it as a missed opportunity. Just imagine if they had shown us different parts of the world succumbed to the fungal outbreak. The different ways that different characters carry on with their lives in this God forsaken post-apocalyptic world. Imagine the countless stories that can be told in this world that have nothing to do with Joel and Ellie.
But, oh well, we're not the owners of this IP so, in the end, all we can do is to endure and survive. At least we still have the games.
Great video as always, Daniel. ✌🏻
I really wish the first game had been made into 2 seasons, I really think that would have solved a lot of issues for me
The TV show succeeded for me when it veered away from the game and told new stories or simply changed characters completely (Bill as an example). I prefer the game and the personal experience of actual being joel/ellie throughout the experience versus being a fly on the wall throughout the tv experience. It's still a solid tv show in my opinion but it didn't blow me away like the game. My recommendation would be to tell a completely different story and make it a new experience all around ------ as it stands now it is going to be comparison piece between the show and game.
Simply put, you were spot on. I've watched many videos on the comparison between the game and the show. This is clearly the most spot on video, in my opinion. I appreciate your effort in putting this together. I only wish that the ahowrunnera can see this video and understand how they've messed up on a unique opportunity. I look forward to viewing more of your videos. You've gained a fan!
Great vid! Your arguments were exactly what I was pointing out to myself watching the show. I especially liked how how you mentioned the lack of the infected. With so much emphasis on the origins of the infection, I was surprised there weren’t more infected let alone any threats at all in general. The journey was the best part of the game and the show lazily portrayed every instance of that. Not to mention I was also highly disappointed in the portrayal of Ellie. I found myself being more annoyed of Ellie than rooting for her to survive.
I personally loved the show, but I am very glad that this video exists. In a sea of complaints that are just "the woke agenda ruined the show" it's very refreshing to see an actual critique of TLOU.
I love to see videos that make points that I disagree with without them turning into some cringy culture war "I don't like that there's black people in this" bullshit.
Great video! Subscribing right now!
As someone who played the game after watching the show, it was hard for me to notice small things like this, so thanks for bringing this up. I definitely agree that Joel and Ellie didn’t get enough screen time together, it felt like the ending came out of nowhere. I feel like if they had a few more episodes it could have went much better. I’m also wondering how they will do certain things when they start Tlou pt 2, since they got rid of spores (ifkyk).
Craig Mazin is incredible and he did so good with Chernobyl but so underwhelmed me - I never felt that same tension when playing the game. And 2 episodes in I’m rerouted to a side story which could easily have played in Season 2
Nice critique and you really landed on the fine details that could have made all the difference
You nailed it. Absolutely perfect assessment. I completely agree that in the game, even those who disagree with Joel's final choice and found it to be abhorrent--still EMPATHIZED with Joel and understood WHY he did it. He wasn't going to let this world take another daughter from him. I truly love TLOU and was similarly disappointed with the show.
Bill and Frank's episode was beautiful, but was ultimately filler and not really on theme with TLOU. Their compound was safe and resources abundant. I didn't even feel the Strawberry scene was particularly beautiful, considering how well they'd already been eating!! In the game, QZ's suck, but at least you're safe from infected and get rations. In the show, I don't see why anyone would live in the QZ when there's almost no threat outside of it! And I just personally prefer Bill as a warning sign to Joel--"this is what you could become. A paranoid man that survives out of spite and has nothing and nobody." The letter Bill writes Joel in the show is just so on-the-nose, almost cheesy. =/
Agreed on all counts. Beautifully articulated
Your right about your points but honestly it seems like the solution to your issues with the show would be a 30 hour season that rivals the game in run time. Thats just not happening as much as I would have loved it. That would take so much money and couldn't be in the budget for a show that honestly before the first episode most people are always weary of video game adaptations.
Just came across your channel today and after seeing your Matrix video, I wanted to see more of your work and I was not disappointed. TLoU is and always will be my favorite game. I became emotionally attached to the game. As a father myself, I could feel the pain Joel had been through and watching him and Ellie bond, in some strange way, made me feel like I was watching my own life as I played through. So when the series finally came out, after waiting forever to see it, I was blown away by how good of a job they did capturing some of the most iconic scenes. I mean, if you did a side by side comparison, some of the scenes you would have a hard time distinguishing the series from the game. As for the "woke" stuff, personally I would have liked it to stick to the original storyline but it wasn't that big of a deal. I do completely agree that it felt like a rushed quick play. They definitely should have stretched it out. They had plenty of opportunities to let the character development play out more. It just didn't pull at my heart like the game did. All in all, I still very much enjoyed it. Maybe it was just my love for the game that left me wanting more from the show. If you happened to make it through my rant, I look foward to seeing more of your videos. Best of luck.
Thanks for the video! Really loved your point of view!
Thanks for watching!
I think the show does well in showing Ellies change. But I do think some combat was missing and the ending was too short of an episode, it really left me wanting more.
It just all felt a little rushed to me, especially after how much time they took in the beginning. In the Pilot, I was optimistic, because they gave us so much more time with Sarah than we saw in the game so I was like "cool! They're going to do this for everything else!" and by the time I was a few episodes in I felt like I was watching the game on fast forward.
@@daniel_netzel Yeah, I feel like if the ending took as much time I would be way more forgiving, but I feel like its only a supplement to the gamers.
Thank you for putting my thoughts into a video!!!🙌🙌
Awesome video, thanks for helping me clarify my own thoughts.
Your essays are fantastic!
I agree, the show was definitely different than the game. I thoroughly enjoyed the show but really appreciate your points. I was shocked when I found out that it was going to end the game in season one. Way to short. I figured they would end when they got to Tommy. I didn't think about the lack of violence but definitely noticed the lack of infected. Maybe my love the for game filled some of the gaps when watching the show. Really enjoyed your take and video. My wife watched the show with me but never played the game. I might ask her opinions after making her watch this :)
The fact infected are few and far between in the show reflects how they felt in part 2 of the game to me: they felt more like an afterthought. The story is more concerned with the folly of men and society but as a result pushes the inciting incident to the wayside, making all those cool before infection day bits feel pointless. I only played part 2 recently and while it’s not as bad as I initially thought when it released, it’s nothing that phenomenal compared to the first. In fact I’d say part 2 and by extension the show adaptation will do next season will be the opposite of what I praised the first game’s story for when it first came out 10 years ago: it did everything right the walking dead - a bloated soap opera with zombies in the background - had been doing wrong for years. It may have the soul but the heart will have stopped. All the more reason my expectations for the remainder of the show are low and I think Naughty Dog should just move on from the franchise and not try to force a part 3 in a sloppy attempt to tie things up with a pretty bow. Life, no matter the state of the world outside of storytelling, doesn’t work that way.
As someone succinctly put it: The show isn't an adaptation of the first game, it's a prequel to the second.
After episode 5, there are no infected(minus one for each flashback sequence).
I hear people argue that the game is about the Joel/Ellie relationship & not the infected.
That's debatable.
But the infected are a serious threat in the game, the first one at least.
Not so much in this show.
The biggest problem with it is it makes finding a cure almost irrelevant.
I try to make this argument all the time that they’ve fundamentally changed the characters of Joel and Ellie so much that they are unrecognizable. And all I constantly get back from them is that “they are the complete same”. Like no they are not.
Show joel was emotionally vulnerable and nearly incapable of surviving in this neutered safe post apocalyptic world compared the brutal closed off killing machine he was in the game
Show Ellie was still a little silly but was a complete rage monster that wanted to fight everyone at all times compared to her more silly, compassionate , pleaser persona she had in the game. The only recognizable thing about Ellie was that she says F*** a lot.
I really don’t get how people say this show is a masterpiece. It’s definitely good and a fine adaptation, but it’s so far from perfect or a masterpiece. If I wasn’t a fan of the games I don’t think I woulda watched the show past 3-4 episodes. It’s a 6 or 7/10.
TLoU is many great things, but I dont think it is a story with much of a commentary on the actual violence itself, which is repeatedly simply necessary in the setting. Dishonored or Spec Ops: The Line do that. TLoU is far more focused on loss and attachment and trauma and trust.
I’m actually really excited to see this analysis because as a major fan of the video game, I actually checked out of the show around episode 3 and couldn’t pinpoint what I didn’t like about it. Thanks for making this video! Excited to see what you say.
I loved Episode 3 as an episode of television, gorgeously done, but that was when I felt like the show was in trouble, because that same portion of the game feels like it should be somewhere around episode 6, with either a much longer first season or the story being split into two seasons. And that rushed feeling just got worse for me as it went along
@@daniel_netzel I just finished watching the video, and I agree with what you say. You make great points.
I realized I actually checked out of the show around episode 2 (🤣) and I just came to an early realization that the show wasn’t for me because like you said, everything felt very rushed. The characters didn’t feel like themselves, and it didn’t have the same tone as the game where violence was as infectious as the infected themselves.
You also made a good point when you said that Ellie seemed more fascinated by violence in this iteration than she was in the game, which was constantly being horrified by the world around her as she was exposed to more of it. Having her by my side saying “holy shit, Joel,” whether I was killing infected or people made me feel bad, and it actually made her killing David in such a violent way that much more impactful because you get the sense that Ellie *isn’t* a violent person and had to resort to it in order to save herself, which you hate that she has to do but it’s the way of their world.
I also think they made Joel too soft in the show because they wanted people to “root” for him, but that felt like a disservice to the original Joel who was very much hardened by violence because of what he experienced. Like you said, there’s nothing wrong with an anti-hero and I would’ve loved to see them go in that direction more.
I think the cast and crew are brilliant for what it’s worth, but the adaptation just wasn’t what I was looking for personally and you hit many of the reasons why it failed for me. Great video!
I'm glad I'm not alone! But yeah, that's basically how I felt about it all. Just too much key character changes that make it a different story, while still trying to tell the same story. I agree the cast and crew was phenomenal, no hate on any of them, Bella in particular needs an Emmy for her work, absolutely stunning performance.
@@daniel_netzel Yes, Bella is a talent!
But like you said, too many key changes to characters while still trying to tell the same story. The changes in characters recontextualizes decisions (particularly ones made in game), and thus ends up telling a bit of a different story about them.
I’m curious if they did that with Joel in particular because of what happens in TLOU2. If memory serves me right, a lot of people were furious that what happened to him happened either way so there was no need to make him softer at all😭. Oh well. Like I said to myself, we always have the games if that’s what we’d like to experience. Thanks again for making this video!
Beautiful job. Today is the day that The Last of Us part 1 comes to PC and can't wait to play it beacuse I want to see what they left out. I personally think they rushed it a little bit but in the other hand I think this is more powerful in terms of bringing video games to TV screens. Keep up the GREAT work Daniel.
Apparently it's not the greatest port at the moment, but hopefully they can patch out a lot of the issues. I've seen reports of lots of crashes and bugs right now though :/ Thank you my dude!
@@daniel_netzel I'll wait for a couple of weeks before playing. Can't wait for the next upload :)
Great video. I really like your take about the "Adaptation" of the game to the movie.
When i go to a movie based on a book i want to see that story. Seems obvious.
I really hate when a movie or series is supposed to tell the story of a book or video game and they make so many changes that it's not the story i came to see.
It's like ordering a bacon cheeseburger and getting tofu soup.
No matter how the soup may be, it's not what i ordered.
Give me what it says on the tin or it's just a scam.
Look at all the machinima made from the game Silent Hill 3 for example.
The entire story can be made into a movie that tells the story exactly as it is in the game.
Those videos are well liked.
The Hollywood movies made huge changes to the story and the characters.
The fans hate those movies.
Another example is the Mario movies.
The 1st one is rightfully hated because it isn't anywhere near what the game is about.
The new Mario movie is praised for being so much like the game.
Why is this concept so hard to understand?
Having not played the games, I still largely agree with this perspective. The truncation of time when they're traveling felt like a missed opportunity to get quiet, intimate moments. I was expecting a more dangerous, enthralling, road trip, and instead it immediately skipped to their goal. Why was JOEL so necessary? Why couldn't anyone do this?
It felt like I was missing episodes, particularly between the penultimate and finale, and I was supposed to just go with it. I still really liked the performances, but I don't know what to expect from the second season.
I was always interested in hearing more from people who hadn't played the games, so thank you for sharing your perspective. Especially considering its main influences(Children of Men, The Road) it really needed to be a more dangerous road trip in my opinion. It's a shame that even with its flaws, The Walking Dead(at least the first 6 seasons or so) is still the superior show of its kind. It makes you feel the danger all the time, but they build beautiful moments of character along the way, and oftentimes marry the two to create truly intense scenes.
I don't know that I necessarily agree that they could have done more episodes. I have no idea what the budget was, but I almost guarantee there were budgetary considerations there. But to your point they definitely could have devoted them differently. Wouldn't be surprised, too, that with s1's success s2 has a bigger budget.
I can't be bothered to find it now, but I read an interview with Craig Mazin where he mentioned that 9 episodes was what they asked for. Budget is always a consideration but it seems HBO was backing it a great deal.
Thanks for putting into words my profound disappointment with this series and frustration I felt with this shows warm reception. Well said.
THANK YOU. My biggest gripe is that the show butt fucks any sort of subtlety
Absolutely insane how this show was run by the writer of the game and creator of the franchise, yet feels like it was sabotaged. Like they wanted to rush through the story of the first game to get to Part II's events, but why? Why speedrun through the half of the franchise that is beloved by all to only get to the events of Part II (that led to one of the most vitriolic and contentious game releases ever seen) and then extend it to being told in seasons 2 and 3? That's something someone who is ambivalent to Part I but loves Part II would do, that's something I would do. Did I write this show? 😳
I 100% felt the same way. That the relationship between Joel and Ellie didn’t feel that deep….on top of everything you said, it felt that Joel and Ellie were almost equals when they met. Ellie was trained by fedra, pegged for leadership. What did Joel have to teach her about violence? pS- I never played the game. I only knew the story from HBO
Dude this is exactly how I felt about the show and everytime I voiced it online Holy moly they came for me lol
I really have disagree because you're way too kind...of course you're video on this topic is great and of course they do not have to copy the scenes but there is one thing they didn't care about it's the intensity that's it. Remember the walking dead Negan killing Glenn...remember how everybody was shocked to the core how intense it felt...thats it. The last of us had to be Hardcore Drama but they don't know how it felt because they didn't play the game 🥱
You explained everything so well. The show fits the shoes of a weird spinoff.
I think they likely had a budget and episode conflict. HBO probably knew they had a hit but still…I mean before this Sonic is your best game adaptions in forever. I imagine they went “you tell this in one season and hook them”. Thus show wasn’t made for gamers as much as it’s a show for new fans to watch with gamers. Yes I think they could of split this into two 7 episode seasons. End right at the college fall. But I have the game, and now show fans have the game. They did it good, I still love the game more but they did this well. We can pick it apart, but I bet a lot of folks aren’t going to be on this granular comparison once season 2/pt 2 happens. I hope they continue remixing and adapting and changing things. We will get a more expanded season but for now…man I’m happy we got the show we did at the level we did.
From what I've read, HBO seemed pretty open to give them more episodes. Also, think of something like Dune. They had no idea how well that would perform or if they'd get to finish the story, but it's better to do something properly even risking leaving the story unfinished than to just condense everything out of that fear.
Very well said. Yeah I also shudder how Craig is planning to handle game 2 for the show considering game 1 was already extremely pacified and game 2 is even more extreme than game 2.
I really wish we stopped having these creators who treats all movie and TV show audiences like emotionally and mentally stunted 3 yr olds whose only idea of "character development" and "morally grey characters and stories" comes from the MCU aka none. Like honestly, it felt like Hollywood felt the need to treat their audiences even dumber than before after that franchise became so popular. Some of it is understandable, but they don't seem to grasp the idea that there's another portion of the audience who hates the MCU for that same reason.
If anything, part of the reason why I like Last of Us, Red Dead Redemption and Attack on Titan to name a few is because they ain't afraid to go to those extremes to further emphasize the story. Like what happened to the storytelling of the 90s that wasn't afraid to kill off the beloved characters because it's the only way to complete the message of the story? Like geez, I can't even imagine how badly Craig would've pacified Attack on Titan if he ever had to tell that story.
Thanks! I haven't played the game and the last episode soured the whole show for me - GOT-style. At least now I understand, how that happened.
I watched 3 episodes and I couldn't stomach watching anymore, The Last Of Us was one of my favorite all-time games and HBO destroyed the story!
HBO was only committed to 9 episodes likely because of Pedro's schedule. Walter White, Tony Soprano, etc all had dozens of episodes to develop. If Mazin and Druckman had decided to spend the 9 episodes on just Joel/Ellie then they would have had a better developed character piece but lost all the scope that would justify the insane budget HBO obviously spent on this. I fully agree the shortcuts changed the show into a lesser version.
True, but we still see them both as violent very early on. Walter kills someone in the very first episode, and The Sopranos was only meant to be one season at first, establishing Tony as the same fundamental character right off the rip. They just continued the story when the show became such a huge success, but it wasn't about transforming him in any significant way.
The TV show that I feel best explores violence and how it erodes ones humanity is Barry
Great analysis! Thank you
I love the games, and also the show. I thought this was a well-balanced critique (and very well-made video), although I don't agree on everything.
Violence in a game is very different from violence in a show. I think they wanted to avoid the trap many game adaptations make by include too much of the violence or action. That something is fun to play, doesn't make it fun to watch. And if you make the character in a TV show kill a lot of people (or infected) the feeling of danger goes down, and it makes them seem like an invulnerable superhero. Exactly what they didn't want for Joel. Furthermore, the amount of time that passes in the show is (roughly) the same as in the game. The bounding is there, it is just not shown the same.
I do agree with some of your other points, mainly the infected. They should have made them a bigger threat, I think. Could have done that easily by trowing in a few here and there, they needed to sneak by (maybe even throw a brick or bottle).
Ps. I got here from your comment on the React content video from DarkViperAU. Wanted to check out your channel and saw something I liked. Will also watch, like and comment on the other TLOU video you made. Trying to do my small part for the algo for creators who obviously deserve it. Keep up the great work.
I definitely hear where you're coming from, I certainly wouldn't want him to feel like a super hero, I just wish he still had that darkness like the games character. That's awesome, thanks dude! I only recently found his channel but he's doing some important work!
Great review. I concur. The lack of development of Ellie and Joel’s relationship is glaring. If I hadn’t played the game, their relationship would’ve seemed forced, and unrealistic. Knowing all they have gone thru, my mind filled in the blanks.
I deeply agree with this video. Every bit of it.
9:19, 13:33 & 17:51 were very well put
I think it is time in media. I feel you get most time in books, then games, tv and finally movies. It is one of the issues when you turn from one to another source. Yes tv gives you a lot more time compared to movies but no where near the time you can put to games or books. It is also a major issue with Last air bender change from show to movie.