Kicking Peter Tomasi and Dan Jurgens off Superman and Action Comics before either were ready to leave so Brian Michael Bendis could take over and shit on everything they did in their runs is one of the worst decisions in recent memory for me.
Andrew M that might be a bit extreme XD but he is one of, if not, the best writers for Superman definitely, his Actions Comics Rebirth run was incredible. It’s a shame Bendis was given the character when Dan DiDio admitted he “moved [Tomasi and Jurgens] off” the titles because they’d “been on there for a while”. I’m dreading when they give Bendis Batman, because they will eventually, Ill be dropping Batman for the first time in years when that happens.
@@amead78 Now, now, they can both suck in their own special ways. Actually I find it ironic that, according to Bendis, one of his formative experiences was finding out his parents interacted with a spy and Tom King was in the CIA. Apparently real life secret services+super hero writing don't mix well
One of the worst decisions Marvel has ever made: Side-lining Tony Stark in his own comic at exactly the same time he was the biggest attraction in the movies.
Guy let’s not dance around this. It’s all about the agenda! They didn’t care about you he store owner. They didn’t care about the fans! They didn’t care about the money lost by not taking advantage of the movies popularity.They hired sjw people with personal agendas. They used the whole industry to push there personal politics! Rather it be gay rights feminism or just democrats ve republican! At the expense of the story! They have people that have openly displayed a hatred of men or whits people. Now I’m ok with diversity and inclusion. But not this anything but a white mail thing that seemed to be the point! I loved and read marvel comics as long as I could read. Hell even before that I was watching cartoons. I’m 51 now. But I was driven away as they took the story’s and characters l loved were disgraced! As the writers we’re allowed to disrespect the people that pay to read the books. I love woman heroes and blade and storm are some of my favorite characters. But even they were bad unrecognizable. Like that racist statement they mad storm say about ( how at lest there are not a bunch of mayonnaise shops opened yet in a Harlem neighborhood) racist! I wish you guy well. But as for me I’m boycotting marvel and all Disney till the identity politics stop or they go out of business. Hurts me to say. But better out of business then giving us gay wolverines and safe space snowflakes! How did we get to this point?
Making Barbara Gordon no longer be Oracle, not keeping Geoff Johns on during rebirth, not planning New 52 The drawing out of Jane Foster as Thor Bendis
The poor distribution of comics in general has been a longtime problem. But as for Vertigo, wasn't that a WB decision? I've heard the story that a WB executive heard how much DC was paying Vertigo creators and ordered them to cut it out.
That's what I've been saying over and over. The "SJWs killed Vertigo" narrative is straight nonsense. The line was left without a rudder when founder Karen Berger exited in 2012 (by the way, Berger could be described as a *huge* SJW and during its peak of success, Vertigo comics were full of the kind of themes that people claim were recently introduced and killed the line)., And then there was a series of questionable moves like reabsorbing some of the characters back into the mainstream DC Universe. For YEARS there were threats that WB was gonna discontinue the line, then they eventually tried to relaunch it. Finally, WB mandated that DC's branding become more streamlined so they shuttered Vertigo and a couple other imprints. I have no idea where this "SJWs ran Vertigo into the ground" alternative narrative started but it strikes me as pure fantasy.
i think hiring bendis to write superman was just a terrible idea from the very beginning because he ruined everything by getting rid of my boy Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy and aging him up for garbage.
Nicholas Burns Or proper credit. Stan was a great editor, but Spider-Man and Doctor Strange he did not create. All Steve Ditko. Same for several Kirby creations.
IMHO, the biggest boneheaded move ever was DC's decision to to end the original Crisis by destroying the simple, elegant, beautiful solution to continuity conundrums that was the multiverse, and instead merged all settings and all characters into a single, all-encompassing timeline on one lone world. The result was a quarter century of books hobbled on launch by a need to not tell stories but to explain who this version of the character was in terms of every story you’d ever read that no longer counted. Ultimately, nothing ever fit quit right while some characters, Hawkman in particular, became virtually unreadable. I said in 1986, and I say now, the better idea would’ve been to have left Earth-1, Earth-2, and all the other Earths as places that still existed that could be re-visited from time to time, while simply moving the main focus of the DCU to a new, updated Earth.
Amen. Especially when every creator decided to ignore it as soon as possible 😂 I enjoyed Crisis, but none of its aftermath. It's the reason why DC reboots the entire line now every 5 years it seems like.
I pretty much agree with you. Rather expected some locks placed on all the worlds that would only permit passage every few years. They wasted many characters that were very beloved, or just had real potential. If the 1984 dc fans had any idea on how it would end, they would have made one hell of a stink beforehand.
It's hard to beat politicising the characters and running off two thirds of your readership. Everyone loved cap punching nazis - no one liked him "always" being one.
I think these gentlemen are spot on. I'm glad they didn't get too hung up on the whole anti-SJW arguments, because the real issue has always been piss poor marketing. The comics should have been plugged in the movies. Writers should be compensated if their ideas are used in a film. Legacy characters ARE FINE but they should not supplant a main character until their popularity rises. They could be given their own books and one shots and feature but let them build their own fanbase. Comics should be packaged with pre ticket buys. Comics should be turned into a dynamic format and added to Disney +. Lastly Marvel and DC gotta get out to these shops and do stands and giveaways, and endorsements. The industry is on life support because they need a cash infusion and new ideas. Comic culture is American culture and they should act like it.
Why is it so baffling that a manufacturer would want to distribute their own product? Walmart, Target, and others do it today. Also remember back in the 1930's through the 1960s most of DC Comics were distributed by their own distributer. No question Marvel fumbled the execution, but the business model is standard operating procedure across various markets.
While I admit that it was a bit strange to change all the main characters in print when the MCU was taking off in popularity (especially considering that DisneyCorp is usually a HUGE stickler for synergy and IP consistency across all media), I'm not sure I believe that it was a true loss in terms of pulling in new readers from the movie audience. At that point, there had been fairly successful Marvel movies in the theaters for a decade, and Marvel had already done their best to try to capitalize on that: Blade covers where he looks like Wesley Snipes, the X-Men being made to more resemble their movie incarnation, all that.... I don't remember it moving the needle. I don't know if Perch and Carter will have a different perspective as retailers (or if they were even in the business at that point), but I clearly remember all the lamentations in the forums, and industry pro interviews, and even talking to my local retailers.... There was a general sense of disappointment that the popularity of the movies appeared to translate to a net zero increase in comics sales. I remember people saying "Well... maybe what we need to do is set up a comics kiosk right at the cinema so that as the audience walks out of the movie, they can immediately buy the comics... because they sure ain't seeking out their local comics store and starting a sub!" So ultimately, they gave up. I think that's what it was... Marvel in particular decided that it really doesn't matter what goes on at the cineplex, it doesn't have any significant impact on the bottomline of the publishing business, so they might as well just do their own thing.
Perch and Uel are my two favorite guests on this show. I liked you having them on together. No one talked over anyone else. Not sure if it's been mentioned, but removing comic books from the newsstand was a mistake in my opinion. Also, making them too expensive for younger readers also hurts sales in the industry. I discovered comic books on the newsstand and eventually progressed to the comic book store. I'd have never stepped into a comic book store if comics weren't available so affordable on the newsstand.
Your timeline is way off on the mcu/avengers point. When the first Avengers came out up until Inifinity War you had all of the movie Avengers well represented. Several graphic novels featuring the movie team, Avengers Assemble, Hickmans Avengers initially. The All New All Different Avengers came way after the Avengers peak. I’d venture they felt confident enough to switch up their mains while the movies show different characters after seeing the movies don’t really impact sales that directly
I’m sure it was a calculated decision, but comic bending the knee and letting the SJW types almost take control of the industry has been the biggest blunder so far. You can come back from bad writing, crappy art, gimmicky comics, countless reboots, and #1’s. Forcing customers to your competition or out of comics completely is not something easily corrected.
I think The ramping up of Executive Meddling is a big factor in the decent of the Big Two. Until Iron Man, I feel that Marvel and DC were pretty much left alone to write their stories. Since Time Warner already owned DC, I think were used to it, But Marvel Studios started putting the pressure on
This video was soooo so so soooo do damn good. It was so good that i was swinging my feet on a park bench like u would do after you tasted the best bbq of ur life. Enjoying the whole thing lol. Great job.
I Was a lol Spider-Man fan for 37 years until that abomination of a story line one more day/brand new day when that travesty was released I sold my collection and walked away.
I think Civil War destroyed Iron Man in the comics and he hasn’t recovered since mindwipe or not. Spider-man OMD is another choice. X-men and their place in Marvel anyone ? Their iron clad hold on Chris Claremont. To me: I enjoyed some of Marvel All-New, All-Different titles and that is more due to the Marvel writers at the time. Now DC on the other hand: Now there is a mess around you. Legacy heroes without saying and their over reliance on making every hero feels like Batman with the dead parents thing. Flash Rebirth and Flashpoint destroyed Barry Allen as a hero and he hasn’t recovered from it since. Wonder Woman rogue gallery anyone ? Plus what’s the purpose of a Superman family if you cannot commit to it.
It's funny, because before I watched this video, I was thinking about Marvel/ Heroes World during my morning meditations. LOL. I initially thought it made sense only because (1) you would think there would be some cost savings in owning a distributor. Stan Lee thought Martin Goodman made a mistake in closing Atlas Distribution. (2) You would have the ability to create a sales force (ala the National Enquirer) that would give you competitive advantages. Instead, as Wes pointed out, they did nothing in terms of infrastructure to improve Heroes World capacity. Also, they made Heroes World the exclusive distributor which means you reduced your revenue streams and you made your B2B sales strategy more complicated than it needed to be or was desired. In my mind, it was the worst decision EVER because it lead to Diamond becoming a monopoly and a myopic sales/distribution environment. It's only being corrected today out of desperate necessity.
Social justice was the business plan. And propaganda was the selling point. As a reader myself, I have no problem with female leads and characters who are racially or ethnically diverse or who don't fit the norm physically. But DAMMIT, MAKE A GOOD STORY! Don't expect people to support your work just because your trying to pander to them in the most basic, dumbed down, insulting way possible! Show me that you have talent and leave your emotional angst outside the door! No wonder comics(Marvel/DC) is dying😡
Marvel did have a version of the Avengers that looked and felt like the MCU version. It was the Ultimates...the first 2 volumes by Mark Millar had more to do with the MCU version of the Avengers than Jack and Stan's. And I'm totally convinced that the All New versions of the Marvel characters were a litmus test to be able to swap out aging and expensive actors and still have a Thor, Iron Man and Cap on movie screens.
This was a great discussion! I am very new to comics, learning as much as possible, and there are aspects (many) of the industry that I didn't know about. Love that you have fans and store owners in your videos. Thanks!
Magneto and Scarlet Witch's is regarded as boring and of no interest to most Marvel writers (clearly proven by only 5 appearances together in 5 decades), which is why the retcon is popular with many fans of Wanda, who already has her own narrative involving Chaos Magic and Chthon, which is far removed from Magneto's more street level politics, making connecting the two characters awkward and contrived. Only Pietro has any interesting stories with Magneto, because they actually have common themes and both inhabit the street level political landscape. The retcon may have been motivated by Perlmutter's anti-Fox agenda, but from a storytelling standpoint, HoM had already made it a dead end for writers. Feige is likely to cement the retcon by going the Kurt Busiek route and making Scarlet Witch a Chaos Magic wielding Witch, bringing her own lore to the fore, and tying it to Doctor Strange and Blade. The retcon is likely here to stay, especially as MCU Scarlet Witch is vastly more popular than 616 Scarlet Witch. Much of Marvel's new 2015 legacy characters were motivated by a progressive agenda, but not all were bad. Ms. Marvel was actually an example of it done right, and Sam becoming Captain America, Gwenpool, SpiderGwen, were all at least interesting, even if not executed well. Even Iron Heart, so atrociously introduced by Bendis, was somewhat redeemed by Ewing and Zub later. Introducing new characters was fine in principle, but Alonso was far too strident, and should have taken a more nuanced approach. He was alas about as subtle as a Galactus in a restaurant. Why do Marvel expect readers to pay big prices for outdated single strip comics with minimal content? US comics should move to the anthology format that Japan, France, and the UK have all been using for decades. The single strip format is antiquated and is the least persuasive format to attract new fans. Anthology format enables acquiring fans of multiple characters to one comic, which could prove a huge success if done right.
Ri ri Williams.... Doesn't get anymore insulting than that and turning Steve Rogers into a Nazi for a year made me stop reading Marvel altogether. When I think of Marvel now I just want to throw up. Same for DC comics 5G.
These diversity characters and their stories sadly were not the ultimate low point. I am 6 months behind the current publication schedule as I read my stuff on Marvel Unlimited, but the quality of art is dropping alarmingly fast now and it is being combined with really bad storytelling. Half of the stories seem to revolve around promoting the ideas of communism and the heroes have lost all of the moral integrity & personality they used to have. If there weren't any visual cues I would not be even able to recognize many of the characters.
I vote for Female Thor as the worst decision in comic book history. My mother who is Trinidadian and Chinese learned English reading Thor. My mom thought I was trolling her when I showed her the remake, a breast cancer lady Thor. It's hilarious how much salt in the wound followed: female thor movie, rewrites of the oath on Mjolnir, and captain marvel can lift it. I'm not a fan of Marvel but I look out for news on Thor just to get a laugh.
@@robertjacques6812 Aye, OMD was the beginning of the end, also what made me stop buying comics. The only comic I've bought since then was Death of Cap. Dunno why I even care anymore... nostalgia?
The Dark And Edge trend that DC brought to your universe after COIE,Hal Jordan becomes Parallax,the New 52,Heroes In Crisis ,Bendis in Superman and Legion Of Super-Heroes.In Marvel,JMS run In Amazing Spider-Man,Sins of Past and One More Day,most X-Men stuff after the 2000's,New Avengers of Bendis and ever crossovers written for him,the first Civil War puts the heroes in a eternal spiral of cinism and hypocrisy, All New All Different MArvel Now,Civil War 2 and Secret Empire.All that stuffs was very pretty bad for comic industry in my opinion.
Marvel changing/swapping their main characters identities at the height of the popularity of the MCU not only hurt their chance for more sales, but also hurt the new characters they were trying to introduce. It created a resentment among long times fans, while not attracting newer ones for the most part. I actually like some of those characters, but I admit that their introduction was done poorly. Rather than debuting alongside the already established heroes, it became a game of replacement and one-up manship that just divided things. Now those characters have a stain on them that will last a long time probably. For example I really like Nadia van Dyne and I believe written correctly she has an interesting backstory to explore. Take some of the silliness out of her books, write her more seriously, and maybe give her a slightly different super-heroine name/costume, and I feel people would've liked her much better. Now, people just think of the character and says "she sucks" and will probably not give her another chance. My whole first exposure to UA-cam comic book commentary was searching her name on YT and seeing a bunch of people tearing apart her books in videos for like 30 minutes straight. LOL Ideally they should've promoted the heck out of their already established characters that people knew from the MCU, and then giving the new characters their own identities and powers. It was a lack of vision not only monetarily, but creatively. I rambled too much, but it was an interesting video and made me think.
Ike Perlmutter's attempt to get rid of the X-men in the comics and shoehorn the Inhumans into that niche solely because they didn't own the Movie rights.
Kicking Peter Tomasi and Dan Jurgens off Superman and Action Comics before either were ready to leave so Brian Michael Bendis could take over and shit on everything they did in their runs is one of the worst decisions in recent memory for me.
Scarce Hyperion No one should be allowed to write Superman but Dan Jurgens.
Andrew M that might be a bit extreme XD but he is one of, if not, the best writers for Superman definitely, his Actions Comics Rebirth run was incredible. It’s a shame Bendis was given the character when Dan DiDio admitted he “moved [Tomasi and Jurgens] off” the titles because they’d “been on there for a while”. I’m dreading when they give Bendis Batman, because they will eventually, Ill be dropping Batman for the first time in years when that happens.
The same thing happened when Abnett and Lanning were fired off Guardians of the Galaxy
Scarce Hyperion The question will be, would Bendis be worse than Tom King?
@@amead78 Now, now, they can both suck in their own special ways. Actually I find it ironic that, according to Bendis, one of his formative experiences was finding out his parents interacted with a spy and Tom King was in the CIA. Apparently real life secret services+super hero writing don't mix well
One of the worst decisions Marvel has ever made: Side-lining Tony Stark in his own comic at exactly the same time he was the biggest attraction in the movies.
Letting chuck austin loose on the x-men! like a virus they never fully recovered.
That was pretty bad. I buy issues from his run for a $1 piece depending on who the artist is.
Your X-Men run is the worst of all runs of the mutants I belive.
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Lobdell's runs were so much worse. in 8 issues of his 2nd run, he did more damage than 6 years of his first. Austen's run was "meh" and easily fixed.
Guy let’s not dance around this. It’s all about the agenda! They didn’t care about you he store owner. They didn’t care about the fans!
They didn’t care about the money lost by not taking advantage of the movies popularity.They hired sjw people with personal agendas. They used the whole industry to push there personal politics! Rather it be gay rights feminism or just democrats ve republican! At the expense of the story! They have people that have openly displayed a hatred of men or whits people. Now I’m ok with diversity and inclusion. But not this anything but a white mail thing that seemed to be the point! I loved and read marvel comics as long as I could read. Hell even before that I was watching cartoons. I’m 51 now. But I was driven away as they took the story’s and characters l loved were disgraced! As the writers we’re allowed to disrespect the people that pay to read the books. I love woman heroes and blade and storm are some of my favorite characters. But even they were bad unrecognizable. Like that racist statement they mad storm say about ( how at lest there are not a bunch of mayonnaise shops opened yet in a Harlem neighborhood) racist! I wish you guy well. But as for me I’m boycotting marvel and all Disney till the identity politics stop or they go out of business. Hurts me to say. But better out of business then giving us gay wolverines and safe space snowflakes! How did we get to this point?
Making Barbara Gordon no longer be Oracle,
not keeping Geoff Johns on during rebirth,
not planning New 52
The drawing out of Jane Foster as Thor
Bendis
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The poor distribution of comics in general has been a longtime problem.
But as for Vertigo, wasn't that a WB decision? I've heard the story that a WB executive heard how much DC was paying Vertigo creators and ordered them to cut it out.
That's what I've been saying over and over. The "SJWs killed Vertigo" narrative is straight nonsense. The line was left without a rudder when founder Karen Berger exited in 2012 (by the way, Berger could be described as a *huge* SJW and during its peak of success, Vertigo comics were full of the kind of themes that people claim were recently introduced and killed the line)., And then there was a series of questionable moves like reabsorbing some of the characters back into the mainstream DC Universe. For YEARS there were threats that WB was gonna discontinue the line, then they eventually tried to relaunch it. Finally, WB mandated that DC's branding become more streamlined so they shuttered Vertigo and a couple other imprints. I have no idea where this "SJWs ran Vertigo into the ground" alternative narrative started but it strikes me as pure fantasy.
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I like Nadia Pym but she shouldn't have headlined a title.
She should have been Janet's sidekick in a Sting of the Wasps ongoing comic.
i think hiring bendis to write superman was just a terrible idea from the very beginning because he ruined everything by getting rid of my boy Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy and aging him up for garbage.
Comics is one of those weird industries where everyone looks down on you for making money. I REALLY don't understand why.
Not a Bendis fan, but his Batman/Daredevil pitch sounded amazing.
Marvel not wanting to give royalties. The legacy of Stan Lee.
But I heard Brian Michael Bendis got something for SMITSV and credits on the 2 MCU SM movies
Nicholas Burns Or proper credit. Stan was a great editor, but Spider-Man and Doctor Strange he did not create. All Steve Ditko. Same for several Kirby creations.
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I hated all new all different marvel. I lost all my favorites wolverine Logan,captain America steve,and thor but thank god my favorites are back
IMHO, the biggest boneheaded move ever was DC's decision to to end the original Crisis by destroying the simple, elegant, beautiful solution to continuity conundrums that was the multiverse, and instead merged all settings and all characters into a single, all-encompassing timeline on one lone world. The result was a quarter century of books hobbled on launch by a need to not tell stories but to explain who this version of the character was in terms of every story you’d ever read that no longer counted. Ultimately, nothing ever fit quit right while some characters, Hawkman in particular, became virtually unreadable. I said in 1986, and I say now, the better idea would’ve been to have left Earth-1, Earth-2, and all the other Earths as places that still existed that could be re-visited from time to time, while simply moving the main focus of the DCU to a new, updated Earth.
Amen. Especially when every creator decided to ignore it as soon as possible 😂 I enjoyed Crisis, but none of its aftermath. It's the reason why DC reboots the entire line now every 5 years it seems like.
I pretty much agree with you. Rather expected some locks placed on all the worlds that would only permit passage every few years. They wasted many characters that were very beloved, or just had real potential. If the 1984 dc fans had any idea on how it would end, they would have made one hell of a stink beforehand.
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I still kinda like the jsa predating the jla and them existing in the same universe. But I do agree in keeping most things separate
It's hard to beat politicising the characters and running off two thirds of your readership.
Everyone loved cap punching nazis - no one liked him "always" being one.
I think these gentlemen are spot on. I'm glad they didn't get too hung up on the whole anti-SJW arguments, because the real issue has always been piss poor marketing.
The comics should have been plugged in the movies.
Writers should be compensated if their ideas are used in a film.
Legacy characters ARE FINE but they should not supplant a main character until their popularity rises. They could be given their own books and one shots and feature but let them build their own fanbase.
Comics should be packaged with pre ticket buys.
Comics should be turned into a dynamic format and added to Disney +.
Lastly Marvel and DC gotta get out to these shops and do stands and giveaways, and endorsements.
The industry is on life support because they need a cash infusion and new ideas. Comic culture is American culture and they should act like it.
It would be really cool if Disney+ had motion comics.
The anti sjws are the most annoying scum to ever live.
One More Day. Bendis in DC. Hickman's X-Men. New 52. Pregnant Spiderwoman. Injustice.
Why is it so baffling that a manufacturer would want to distribute their own product? Walmart, Target, and others do it today. Also remember back in the 1930's through the 1960s most of DC Comics were distributed by their own distributer. No question Marvel fumbled the execution, but the business model is standard operating procedure across various markets.
That is true, but Marvel's poor execution makes you question if they knew that's why they were out to own a distributor.
Why couldn't they just replace Glob Herman with Glob Kamala Khan, so we could keep sexy Ms. Marvel Carol Danvers.
While I admit that it was a bit strange to change all the main characters in print when the MCU was taking off in popularity (especially considering that DisneyCorp is usually a HUGE stickler for synergy and IP consistency across all media), I'm not sure I believe that it was a true loss in terms of pulling in new readers from the movie audience.
At that point, there had been fairly successful Marvel movies in the theaters for a decade, and Marvel had already done their best to try to capitalize on that: Blade covers where he looks like Wesley Snipes, the X-Men being made to more resemble their movie incarnation, all that.... I don't remember it moving the needle. I don't know if Perch and Carter will have a different perspective as retailers (or if they were even in the business at that point), but I clearly remember all the lamentations in the forums, and industry pro interviews, and even talking to my local retailers.... There was a general sense of disappointment that the popularity of the movies appeared to translate to a net zero increase in comics sales. I remember people saying "Well... maybe what we need to do is set up a comics kiosk right at the cinema so that as the audience walks out of the movie, they can immediately buy the comics... because they sure ain't seeking out their local comics store and starting a sub!"
So ultimately, they gave up. I think that's what it was... Marvel in particular decided that it really doesn't matter what goes on at the cineplex, it doesn't have any significant impact on the bottomline of the publishing business, so they might as well just do their own thing.
Perch and Uel are my two favorite guests on this show. I liked you having them on together. No one talked over anyone else.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but removing comic books from the newsstand was a mistake in my opinion. Also, making them too expensive for younger readers also hurts sales in the industry.
I discovered comic books on the newsstand and eventually progressed to the comic book store. I'd have never stepped into a comic book store if comics weren't available so affordable on the newsstand.
3. Quesada canceling X-men:Hidden Years
2. Taking Claremont off of Uncanny the 2nd time
1. Letting Lobdell come back for 8 issues right after
personally i would really love another marvel and dc comics crossover because that would be fantastic and tons of fun
Your timeline is way off on the mcu/avengers point. When the first Avengers came out up until Inifinity War you had all of the movie Avengers well represented. Several graphic novels featuring the movie team, Avengers Assemble, Hickmans Avengers initially. The All New All Different Avengers came way after the Avengers peak. I’d venture they felt confident enough to switch up their mains while the movies show different characters after seeing the movies don’t really impact sales that directly
I’m sure it was a calculated decision, but comic bending the knee and letting the SJW types almost take control of the industry has been the biggest blunder so far. You can come back from bad writing, crappy art, gimmicky comics, countless reboots, and #1’s. Forcing customers to your competition or out of comics completely is not something easily corrected.
I think The ramping up of Executive Meddling is a big factor in the decent of the Big Two. Until Iron Man, I feel that Marvel and DC were pretty much left alone to write their stories. Since Time Warner already owned DC, I think were used to it, But Marvel Studios started putting the pressure on
This
This video was soooo so so soooo do damn good. It was so good that i was swinging my feet on a park bench like u would do after you tasted the best bbq of ur life. Enjoying the whole thing lol. Great job.
ANAD Marvel was a ridiculous decision indeed, it was too much too quick.
I Was a lol Spider-Man fan for 37 years until that abomination of a story line one more day/brand new day when that travesty was released I sold my collection and walked away.
I think Civil War destroyed Iron Man in the comics and he hasn’t recovered since mindwipe or not. Spider-man OMD is another choice. X-men and their place in Marvel anyone ? Their iron clad hold on Chris Claremont.
To me: I enjoyed some of Marvel All-New, All-Different titles and that is more due to the Marvel writers at the time.
Now DC on the other hand: Now there is a mess around you. Legacy heroes without saying and their over reliance on making every hero feels like Batman with the dead parents thing. Flash Rebirth and Flashpoint destroyed Barry Allen as a hero and he hasn’t recovered from it since. Wonder Woman rogue gallery anyone ? Plus what’s the purpose of a Superman family if you cannot commit to it.
Please, the Marvel's legacy character are more worst.
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They need to open there eye s to see and listen to the fans.
It's funny, because before I watched this video, I was thinking about Marvel/ Heroes World during my morning meditations. LOL.
I initially thought it made sense only because (1) you would think there would be some cost savings in owning a distributor. Stan Lee thought Martin Goodman made a mistake in closing Atlas Distribution. (2) You would have the ability to create a sales force (ala the National Enquirer) that would give you competitive advantages.
Instead, as Wes pointed out, they did nothing in terms of infrastructure to improve Heroes World capacity. Also, they made Heroes World the exclusive distributor which means you reduced your revenue streams and you made your B2B sales strategy more complicated than it needed to be or was desired.
In my mind, it was the worst decision EVER because it lead to Diamond becoming a monopoly and a myopic sales/distribution environment. It's only being corrected today out of desperate necessity.
Social justice was the business plan. And propaganda was the selling point.
As a reader myself, I have no problem with female leads and characters who are racially or ethnically diverse or who don't fit the norm physically. But DAMMIT, MAKE A GOOD STORY! Don't expect people to support your work just because your trying to pander to them in the most basic, dumbed down, insulting way possible! Show me that you have talent and leave your emotional angst outside the door!
No wonder comics(Marvel/DC) is dying😡
Marvel did have a version of the Avengers that looked and felt like the MCU version. It was the Ultimates...the first 2 volumes by Mark Millar had more to do with the MCU version of the Avengers than Jack and Stan's. And I'm totally convinced that the All New versions of the Marvel characters were a litmus test to be able to swap out aging and expensive actors and still have a Thor, Iron Man and Cap on movie screens.
1:27 There is a non political reason for this relating to the MCU....... but we're not here to have normal conversations are we?
The purposeful decision by most publishers to discontinue self-contained stories ---- effectively making floppies incomplete products !!
This was a great discussion! I am very new to comics, learning as much as possible, and there are aspects (many) of the industry that I didn't know about. Love that you have fans and store owners in your videos. Thanks!
Spider man One More Day was so bad that I haven't cared about thecharector since
10 years of Dan Slott didn't help.
Edit: I will say, Spider-Man: Life Story was pretty good, you might enjoy that, it made me miss him again.
Magneto and Scarlet Witch's is regarded as boring and of no interest to most Marvel writers (clearly proven by only 5 appearances together in 5 decades), which is why the retcon is popular with many fans of Wanda, who already has her own narrative involving Chaos Magic and Chthon, which is far removed from Magneto's more street level politics, making connecting the two characters awkward and contrived. Only Pietro has any interesting stories with Magneto, because they actually have common themes and both inhabit the street level political landscape.
The retcon may have been motivated by Perlmutter's anti-Fox agenda, but from a storytelling standpoint, HoM had already made it a dead end for writers. Feige is likely to cement the retcon by going the Kurt Busiek route and making Scarlet Witch a Chaos Magic wielding Witch, bringing her own lore to the fore, and tying it to Doctor Strange and Blade. The retcon is likely here to stay, especially as MCU Scarlet Witch is vastly more popular than 616 Scarlet Witch.
Much of Marvel's new 2015 legacy characters were motivated by a progressive agenda, but not all were bad. Ms. Marvel was actually an example of it done right, and Sam becoming Captain America, Gwenpool, SpiderGwen, were all at least interesting, even if not executed well. Even Iron Heart, so atrociously introduced by Bendis, was somewhat redeemed by Ewing and Zub later. Introducing new characters was fine in principle, but Alonso was far too strident, and should have taken a more nuanced approach. He was alas about as subtle as a Galactus in a restaurant.
Why do Marvel expect readers to pay big prices for outdated single strip comics with minimal content?
US comics should move to the anthology format that Japan, France, and the UK have all been using for decades. The single strip format is antiquated and is the least persuasive format to attract new fans. Anthology format enables acquiring fans of multiple characters to one comic, which could prove a huge success if done right.
Ri ri Williams.... Doesn't get anymore insulting than that and turning Steve Rogers into a Nazi for a year made me stop reading Marvel altogether. When I think of Marvel now I just want to throw up. Same for DC comics 5G.
These diversity characters and their stories sadly were not the ultimate low point. I am 6 months behind the current publication schedule as I read my stuff on Marvel Unlimited, but the quality of art is dropping alarmingly fast now and it is being combined with really bad storytelling. Half of the stories seem to revolve around promoting the ideas of communism and the heroes have lost all of the moral integrity & personality they used to have. If there weren't any visual cues I would not be even able to recognize many of the characters.
I vote for Female Thor as the worst decision in comic book history. My mother who is Trinidadian and Chinese learned English reading Thor. My mom thought I was trolling her when I showed her the remake, a breast cancer lady Thor. It's hilarious how much salt in the wound followed: female thor movie, rewrites of the oath on Mjolnir, and captain marvel can lift it. I'm not a fan of Marvel but I look out for news on Thor just to get a laugh.
Joe Quasada being born.
I kid I kid.
Or do I?
Wolverine origin and spider Man brand new/ one more day I hate so much neither character ever recovered
@@robertjacques6812 Aye, OMD was the beginning of the end, also what made me stop buying comics. The only comic I've bought since then was Death of Cap.
Dunno why I even care anymore... nostalgia?
LOL
The Dark And Edge trend that DC brought to your universe after COIE,Hal Jordan becomes Parallax,the New 52,Heroes In Crisis ,Bendis in Superman and Legion Of Super-Heroes.In Marvel,JMS run In Amazing Spider-Man,Sins of Past and One More Day,most X-Men stuff after the 2000's,New Avengers of Bendis and ever crossovers written for him,the first Civil War puts the heroes in a eternal spiral of cinism and hypocrisy, All New All Different MArvel Now,Civil War 2 and Secret Empire.All that stuffs was very pretty bad for comic industry in my opinion.
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@@Wes_From_TC Awesome Wes.
Wonderful conversation. Well done.
Marvel changing/swapping their main characters identities at the height of the popularity of the MCU not only hurt their chance for more sales, but also hurt the new characters they were trying to introduce. It created a resentment among long times fans, while not attracting newer ones for the most part. I actually like some of those characters, but I admit that their introduction was done poorly. Rather than debuting alongside the already established heroes, it became a game of replacement and one-up manship that just divided things. Now those characters have a stain on them that will last a long time probably.
For example I really like Nadia van Dyne and I believe written correctly she has an interesting backstory to explore. Take some of the silliness out of her books, write her more seriously, and maybe give her a slightly different super-heroine name/costume, and I feel people would've liked her much better. Now, people just think of the character and says "she sucks" and will probably not give her another chance. My whole first exposure to UA-cam comic book commentary was searching her name on YT and seeing a bunch of people tearing apart her books in videos for like 30 minutes straight. LOL
Ideally they should've promoted the heck out of their already established characters that people knew from the MCU, and then giving the new characters their own identities and powers. It was a lack of vision not only monetarily, but creatively.
I rambled too much, but it was an interesting video and made me think.
Video could have ended at 1:35 and it would have been fine.
Ike Perlmutter's attempt to get rid of the X-men in the comics and shoehorn the Inhumans into that niche solely because they didn't own the Movie rights.
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