Even J. Michael Straczynski hated the idea and wrote it solely because he was contractually obligated to do so. He still hates it from what I can tell.
And he did that at least once more, when he took Strange's and Clea's love to help revert the collapse caused by Galactus consuming pretty much all the cosmic entities in the Dark Multiverse.
Liefeld always drew characters with disproportionate body parts. When he did Cable the head was the size of a tic-tac while everything below the neck was Hulk size.
This is an undertaking, to look back at these moments. Some were mind boggling, and still reflect on how much is possible within any comic book universe / reboot / continuity / stuff of nightmares One More Day still hurts. Sigh
It's really sad for Secret Empire the way they handled it. If they had revealed in the very next issue after Steve said "Hail Hydra" that his reality was rewritten by the cosmic cube, they probably would have saved the story who's pretty interresting. But yeah, just throwing the "Anti Nazi" symbol as a "He was a nazi all along" is quite yikes.
never forget that the "original" cap is still a nazi in the end of secret empire, what cubic did was bring an image of the anti-nazi cap we know and love but thats not actually the "original" one
@Oren Black nah The original cap backstory was rewritten to make him believe that he was a hydra double agent all along and the allies used the cosmic cube to change history and make him the Cap America its really confusing but the point is the original cap still believed that he was a hydra agent and the allies were the one who changed history, Kobic created another cap (which is the current one) and he was the one who smacked the original
As someone who has Autism the way Heroes in Crisis handle the topic of mental illness infuriated me, along with pissing me off via the story-arc being a clear case of Dan Dido showing his contempt for Legacy Characters due to once again screwing Roy out of the happy ending he deserved by killing him in the first half, and ordering a complete character assassination on Wally.
Not to be mean, but Heroes in Crisis was meant to be about Post Traumatic Stress disorder, not all mental illness. The writer was a veteran of Iraq/Afghan wars as a CIA agent. His story originally did not even have Wally in it. Dan DiDio told him to use Wally. King was hoping to show effect of constant fighting will mess someone up. Everyone believed that Wally murdered people...except the story explicitly stated that Wallys PTSD trigged a side effect in his powers.
@@Lukecash2 PTSD don't makes you a murder, especially for a character like Wally is just too off Plus Harley Quinn winning against justice league is just nonsense
I was wondering what could possibly top one more day. I didn’t hate secret empire though. It’s comics, it was obvious the real Steve would show up sometime, it was just the how that needed to be told. I actually really enjoyed the first 2/3 of secret empire.
Tbh. I read the compiled version with all the issues and I found that to be much better in terms of caps imagery. Because I didn't have to wait a year to know it wasn't rlly him
Wanna hear something terrible? There was a moment in the ultimate universe where quick silver and scarlet witch did the diddly do and Wolverine was watching from the bushes…
I feel that one more day is way worse than secret empire because one more day’s Effects are still ongoing were secret Empire effects wrapped up at the end of its ark.
I haven't read comics for awhile now; But last I've read about Spider-Man was pretty good, and is basically Nick Spencer saying "Hey those last few years of Spider-Man was a mistake". And if I remember correctly, Nick Spencer was also helping with the Ghost Rider book, where Mephisto is replaced by Johnny Blaze, to maybe retcon away One More Day.
I’m glad you admitted that people in the 90s only read X-men and Spider-Man. You hear people lying all the time about how they’ve always read avengers and black panther etc. image was the big thing in the 90s
I wasn’t even reading Marvel on those days. Not for nothing, but back then their stories were largely impenetrable to new readers. It really felt like you needed to have read the last three decades of comics to even know who anyone was and what was going on, and when I was a kid I didn’t have the money or the proximity to comic shops to ever hope to catch up. There wasn’t even an Internet to speak of at the time, so I had no alternatives. I read DC, they were easier to follow.
I never heard that before. And I totally would understand why he felt that way. BUT!!! They kinda sorta maybe did do a "wink and a nodd" to secret Empire in Endgame. When Cap is in the elevator with the hydra agents and says hail hydra in dudes ear. Just throwing it out there
@@thegangsternerd5230 yeah but I think in a interview,Chris Evans was asked if he would do it,he said he wouldn't since he knows more about cap than the idiots who made hydra supreme
@@redhood7650 actors shouldn't get to deacide what movies they do that what contracts i never would guessed Chris Evans as one of they overlay sensitive
@@matthewjones2095 actually no. He understands that the character of cap would never do anything to do with hydra,and the writers who did the storyline don't like the fact that the star Spangled man is white.
I remember when Heroes Reborn came out. Before even the first issue was out, it was known it would only be a one year run. The four titles were given to Liefeld and Lee and they were given free reign; and it worked: the titles were re-vitalized. The criticisms of the run itself, however, are very validly on point.
Honestly, the Hydra Cap wasn't that awful. OBVIOUSLY Marvel would go along with the "this is the real Cap, not a fake" because otherwise it would spoil the entire story.
You forgot when Superman renounced his American citizenship, and when Captain Steve Rogers randomly beat up a bunch of drafted US soilders during the Vietnam war.
actually it was revealed in issue 2 of captain america that his past was alterd forcefully to bad bad angry fanboys shouting "nazi" was the only thing mention anyone heard of it
@@jojomojofofo The avengers suck anyway. The MCU ruined movies and comics and it inspired garbage like the new 52 and DC rebirth and Doomsday clock and three Jokers and Daredevil one more day and flash forward and heroes in crisis. Rob Liefeld youngblood in my opinion is a lot like the MCU. However youngblood is the MCU done right. I like a lot of 90s image comics and valiant comics characters. Spiderman is overrated My Life as a Teenage Robot is a million times better.
@@iamnotawfulanymore3873 What are you talking about? Say what you want about MCU, don't blame it for ruining Avengers, comics or movies, they did that well enough themselves. And definitely not comparing to Youngblood... And I'm sorry where are you hearing this garbage of inspiring New 52? New 52 was planned by Dan Didio for years before creation of the MCU and had nothing to do with it. It was meant to not be weighed down by 70 years of continuity. DC Rebirth was made to restore hope to the DC Universe and was basically another standard DC Rebirth. Doomsday Clock failed because of delays on the book and was meant to restore pre-Flashpoint continuity. Three Jokers was not bad and agin, has no inspiration from MCU. Same case with Flash Forward and Daredevil: One More Day, which is actually good unlike the original One More Day because Chip Zdarsky is an actual writer unlike Joe Quesada.
You can be intelligent and understand a story and still not like it. You can like scrambled eggs and hate hard boiled eggs....doesn't mean you don't understand hard boiled eggs, it's just subjective. I am finding out I don't like Cates writing...I'm in the minority. I liked the 2nd Thor movie, I'm in the minority there too. It's subjective.
I liked Ultimatum, actually, especially Jonah Jameson's regrets for hating Spiderman after seeing him risk his life to save as much people as he could.
I believe that’s more about Bendis cleaning up after Ultimatum. It’s the best Jameson character moment I can think of, but it’s not really a credit to the main storyline itself.
Glad someone else caught that too! They also attributed the retcon of Xorn not actually being Magneto to Morrison's run as well, but I believe that was a different writer that retconned that.
That's right. I know that Chuck Austen took over the book after Morrison left and introduced the other Xorn while Claremont started a new Excalibur series at the same time that reintroduced Magneto as alive. Both happened within just a few months of Morrison's run, showing how much Marvel was eager to undo that plot point. Which was a real shame. Magneto has a joking throwaway line during New X-Men about how his secondary mutation is always coming back and I don't know why they couldn't have just left the Xorn/Magneto revelation as it was and was, leave him dead for more than just a few months, and then bring him back in a more hand-wavey/less convoluted way than all that while not having to undo any of Morrison's run. I assume it was because Claremont wanted to use Magneto and might as well make him happy.
What's weird about the destruction of Genosha and the death of all those mutant is that the X-Men blame humanity for it when the real culprit was Charles' mutant twin sister,. And they should know this.
What's weird about the destruction of Genosha and the death of all those mutant is that the X-Men blame humanity for it when the real culprit was Charles' mutant twin sister,. And they should know this.
I'm glad enough time has passed that "Death Of Superman" and "Clone Saga" aren't on this list, since they're the ones every old fan hates but unlike every other entry on this list they actually led to some good stories and character development.
Thing about Death of Superman and even Captain America's assassination during Marvel Civil War I was that both characters were meant to be permanently killed. Thankfully the fans caught wind of both plans and DC/Marvel had to changed their minds.
@@user-Andrew90000 Same with Death of Superman... and that really exploded the trend of "no one stays dead in comics." Yeah resurrections had happened before but not very often, but after the resurrection of Superman, they were like "if they did it to Superman, they can do it to anybody."
As I recall, Marvel did not walk back Cap not being a Hydra at the end. Good Captain America was the Cosmic Cube creation, based on the memory of Good Cap (when Cap had forgotten he was evil- (the had Cube originally restored his memory, making him evil again)). And I'm pretty sure they still have the two Caps running around to day (evil one in jail).
@@goldenstatewarriors9418 Yea, they kinda had to rush it due to the backlash. I like the stuff Nick Spencer puts out and I still wonder what he would've wrote, if he was able to write what he planned to write. I just viewed Hydra Cap like Red Son Superman.
I thought Countdown was great because I had no idea what was coming up next. Many of the character arcs were great character building. For instance, Countdown is the series that build Harley Quinn into a solo character who can carry a title.
All Star Batman and Robin had the creepiest implications of csa from Batman towards Robin too. That comic was like actually physically revolting. It forever ruined "The Dark Knight Returns"
One More Day is worse than Secret Empire IMO because its all because Quesads doesnt relate to readers anymore. his editorial decisions to Marvel are abysmal. his dad died of lung cancer and suddenly theres an edict that no one is allowed to smoke in the marvel universe anymore.
And Secret Empire wasn't terrible. Issues 0-6 was pretty good. Captain America: Steve Rogers #1 was awful tho. But HYDRA Ca lasted for 1.5-2 years. One More Day has lasted for over 13 so far.
As a comic fans since I was a child I was unaware people hated some of these stories especially Cap's Hail Hydra moment. I loved that story in the end he betrays the Red Skull lmao. It was the only thing interesting during Civil War 2 .
_"...because Xorn's mutation caused his brain to develop into a star..."_ Yeah, this is the moment everyone should have bailed. Plenty of mutations could justify that helmet and being powerful, but this one? Already *silly.*
Marvel had filed for bankruptcy a few years earlier. They had to undo the damage to quality and content that had happened during the Revlon years, and were willing to be more silly and experimental in an effort to bring readers back.
There was mistake describing Magneto here. You said described Magneto being Xorn, killing Jean Grey and then dying in Cassandra Nova's attack on Genosha. The order went, Magneto apparently dies in Genosha, Xorn is introduced and then revealed to be Magneto (which was a big reveal partly because readers last saw him die on Genosha and had not seen him since), who then kills Jean Grey and then Wolverine slices his head off. The images went along with this but the dialogue didn't. But yeah, the Xorn/Magneto confusion was messed up and incredibly convoluted.
Your xorn/magneto timeline is wrong. Magneto had “died” in Cassandra Nova’s attack on Genosha BEFORE Xorn arrived - right at the start of Morrison’s run. The beheading you show in the panels is by wolverine only a page or so after he kills Jean
i actually like countdown: the disjointed bizarre nature of the story was the point. It tied in with the Final Crisis later on,which i thought was also incredibly underrated
Please stop using "One More Day" in lists about bad comic book story lines. Not because you're wrong to include it, but because I don't want to be reminded of it.
I understand the reasons people didn't like Secret Empire, but as a dramatic and edgy story, it was an enjoyable read for me. Also, the artwork is pretty spectacular from page to page.
After Heroes Reborn, Rob Liefield make his Captain America comics that he never had the chance to make into a new one where it's the same story but he used Fighting American.
I honestly didn’t mind Secret Empire. Obviously it was pretty controversial turning Cap into a fascist dictator, but isn’t the point of a well-made story to challenge the convictions of its characters? Some parts were a bit unnecessary and weird tho. Hydra managed to make everyone think history was completely different overnight and some really dumb elements from Civil War 2 carried over. I just think everyone overreacted after the “Hail Hydra” line and that tainted their overall thoughts of the whole event.
Your appraisel of New 52 Wally West is unfair because they reintroduced Wally West as black teenager with Iris West as an African American. This back Wally West was given the iconic Kid Flash costume and name. The fan backlash against this rebooted Wally West revolved around erasing the family with kids Wally West had build with his wife Linda and shunting two decades of Wally West stories to Barry Allen.
My personal Hate List- most are probably Spiderman 10. Identity Crisis. It was boring. 9.Batman vs KGBeast ( left him for dead before rewrite) 8. Professor X's evil sister 7.Ms Marvel giving birth to her lover 6.Maira Mataggart saying she has no regrets in the afterlife( after all the awful things shes done!) 5.ASM#400- Aunt Mays death was later said to a clone. Takes the emotional pecos away! 4.Venom Dark Story- Unnecessary' 'Dark' backstory of Brock before Venom 3.Spiderman Reign- MJ died of Spidey Radioactive Sperm 2.Sinners Past- Osborn slept with Gwen. 1. One MORE( Friggin') Day
Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder was never a reboot. It was done in the same flavour as All Star Superman. A fun story that has no real basis in continuity. No one knew it would suck so badly.
2:45 "he must wear a specially designed helmet to risk incinerating everyone around him." Surely he wears the helmet to reduce/prevent the risk of that happening?
How can you believe they wouldn't pull the rug on cap being a hydra plant? I actually liked the storyline bc it got me so invested hoping that it wasn't true! That's what comics are best at anyway.. seeing what works. And let's not forget what we're responsible for when they let us vote on a batman story..🤐
A lot of people loved ultimatum.. that’s how I found out about it and and that’s why they brought characters from that universe to the marvel 616 universe
Well, I loved Secret Empire. I think it was a very good swerve that Cap was Hydra. I immediately knew something was wrong with him. And that Kobrik (the personification of the Cosmic Cube) had something to do with it.
All-Star Batman & Robin is almost tolerable if you take the Linkara approach, and tell yourself that "Batman" is really a lunatic named Crazy Steve who stole the belt and the car, and is running around the city doing all this stuff.
I think the Hydra Cap is still the real Cap, technically. IIRC, the Cosmic Cube corrupted the real Cap and retconned his past. Then, the heroes convinced it to "remake" Cap from their memories and ideas of what Cap used to be. So the current Captain America is actually the fake one, because he was artificially constructed from all the good memories the Avengers had of him, and the real Cap died that day.
After "One More Day" it has become a running gag for me that Mephisto's goals always revolve around stealing character's marriages.
Even J. Michael Straczynski hated the idea and wrote it solely because he was contractually obligated to do so. He still hates it from what I can tell.
And he did that at least once more, when he took Strange's and Clea's love to help revert the collapse caused by Galactus consuming pretty much all the cosmic entities in the Dark Multiverse.
Mephisto: Divorce Attorney!
"Superhero" is my favorite superhero.
He doesn't afraid of anything
I was wondering if anyone else heard that lol
i went to the comments right after just to find a couple like this hahaha. Superhero, the true superhero.
ohkay its not just me
3:50 Yes everyone's favorite superhero SuperHero, I heard issue number one sells for lots of money.
2 hours. you beat me by 2 hours.
4 hours. 😂
lol
I thought I was hearing things I had to rewind like 3 times 😂
I had to run across the room and replay that part hahaha
Ultimates 3 writers be like:
What's this one gonna be?
You know what, let's make a F*cked up porno under the name of MARVEL cause that'd be hilarious
And then remove X-Men and F4 from existence.
Authors nowadays are really trying so hard to destroy the treasure Jack Kirby and Stanley left
@@notashark5189 And dare I say Rob Liefeld as well...!?
@@notashark5189 don't forget the infamous hydra cap shit.
@@notashark5189 Stan Lee made Professor Xavier in love with a teenage Jean Grey. He's done enough.
It never occurred to me before: but Diana could convievably have diplomatic immunity.
True but DC will never go down that route cause it won't fit the story
@@netonnaanigbogu8304 I think they brought it up with Aquaman in the animated Justice League. I think...
She did when she was an ambassador from Thymascaria. She wasn’t at the time.
Diplomatic immunity only goes so far. She was arrested for the murder of Maxwell Lord, iirc.
@@netonnaanigbogu8304 meanwhile, there's is only DOOM
Alternate Title: Comics Linkara has reviewed
He and Comic Tropes are my fav comic based channels
@@d4peters86 Same
I was thinking that
I don't think he ever reviewed Planet X.
@@goldenstatewarriors9418 Give it time
Liefeld always drew characters with disproportionate body parts. When he did Cable the head was the size of a tic-tac while everything below the neck was Hulk size.
This is an undertaking, to look back at these moments. Some were mind boggling, and still reflect on how much is possible within any comic book universe / reboot / continuity / stuff of nightmares
One More Day still hurts. Sigh
It's really sad for Secret Empire the way they handled it. If they had revealed in the very next issue after Steve said "Hail Hydra" that his reality was rewritten by the cosmic cube, they probably would have saved the story who's pretty interresting. But yeah, just throwing the "Anti Nazi" symbol as a "He was a nazi all along" is quite yikes.
never forget that the "original" cap is still a nazi in the end of secret empire, what cubic did was bring an image of the anti-nazi cap we know and love but thats not actually the "original" one
@Oren Black nah
The original cap backstory was rewritten to make him believe that he was a hydra double agent all along and the allies used the cosmic cube to change history and make him the Cap America
its really confusing but the point is the original cap still believed that he was a hydra agent and the allies were the one who changed history, Kobic created another cap (which is the current one) and he was the one who smacked the original
As someone who has Autism the way Heroes in Crisis handle the topic of mental illness infuriated me, along with pissing me off via the story-arc being a clear case of Dan Dido showing his contempt for Legacy Characters due to once again screwing Roy out of the happy ending he deserved by killing him in the first half, and ordering a complete character assassination on Wally.
dude, use more punctuation please.
Not to be mean, but Heroes in Crisis was meant to be about Post Traumatic Stress disorder, not all mental illness. The writer was a veteran of Iraq/Afghan wars as a CIA agent. His story originally did not even have Wally in it. Dan DiDio told him to use Wally. King was hoping to show effect of constant fighting will mess someone up.
Everyone believed that Wally murdered people...except the story explicitly stated that Wallys PTSD trigged a side effect in his powers.
Not trying to be rude but Autism isn't the same as PTSD.
I loved Heroes in Crisis, it showed vulnerability and the human extremes when it comes to PTSD.
@@Lukecash2 PTSD don't makes you a murder, especially for a character like Wally is just too off
Plus Harley Quinn winning against justice league is just nonsense
3:47 So how did they deal with Batman's mate "Super Hero?"
lol
loL
There is no one more day in Ba Sing Se...
I understood that reference
I was wondering what could possibly top one more day. I didn’t hate secret empire though. It’s comics, it was obvious the real Steve would show up sometime, it was just the how that needed to be told. I actually really enjoyed the first 2/3 of secret empire.
I'm in the same boat.
Tbh. I read the compiled version with all the issues and I found that to be much better in terms of caps imagery. Because I didn't have to wait a year to know it wasn't rlly him
Wanna hear something terrible? There was a moment in the ultimate universe where quick silver and scarlet witch did the diddly do and Wolverine was watching from the bushes…
It’s nice to see that the Spider Clone story is no longer the most hated comics.
I feel that one more day is way worse than secret empire because one more day’s Effects are still ongoing were secret Empire effects wrapped up at the end of its ark.
I haven't read comics for awhile now; But last I've read about Spider-Man was pretty good, and is basically Nick Spencer saying "Hey those last few years of Spider-Man was a mistake". And if I remember correctly, Nick Spencer was also helping with the Ghost Rider book, where Mephisto is replaced by Johnny Blaze, to maybe retcon away One More Day.
I’m glad you admitted that people in the 90s only read X-men and Spider-Man. You hear people lying all the time about how they’ve always read avengers and black panther etc. image was the big thing in the 90s
I wasn’t even reading Marvel on those days. Not for nothing, but back then their stories were largely impenetrable to new readers. It really felt like you needed to have read the last three decades of comics to even know who anyone was and what was going on, and when I was a kid I didn’t have the money or the proximity to comic shops to ever hope to catch up. There wasn’t even an Internet to speak of at the time, so I had no alternatives. I read DC, they were easier to follow.
“ Batman, Superhero, and Wonder Woman taking a year off.” You just read exactly what they write huh
Yeah even Chris Evans hates the infamous secret empire arc so much he won't do it
I never heard that before. And I totally would understand why he felt that way. BUT!!! They kinda sorta maybe did do a "wink and a nodd" to secret Empire in Endgame. When Cap is in the elevator with the hydra agents and says hail hydra in dudes ear.
Just throwing it out there
@@thegangsternerd5230 yeah but I think in a interview,Chris Evans was asked if he would do it,he said he wouldn't since he knows more about cap than the idiots who made hydra supreme
@@thegangsternerd5230 To be fair, that scene made sense to the overall story. He had to trick Hydra into giving him the mind stone.
@@redhood7650 actors shouldn't get to deacide what movies they do that what contracts i never would guessed Chris Evans as one of they overlay sensitive
@@matthewjones2095 actually no. He understands that the character of cap would never do anything to do with hydra,and the writers who did the storyline don't like the fact that the star Spangled man is white.
I remember when Heroes Reborn came out. Before even the first issue was out, it was known it would only be a one year run. The four titles were given to Liefeld and Lee and they were given free reign; and it worked: the titles were re-vitalized. The criticisms of the run itself, however, are very validly on point.
One more day made me officially give up on comics completely after 25 years of stanning. Thanks Joe Quesada, you ruined my childhood.
"visionary" is a word for Frank Miller alright.
God it's like a "best of" hits for Linkara.
I'll give "Spider's Man: Sin's Past: an honorable mention...
I knew that Secret Empire would be #1. No wonder Stan Lee hated it so much.
I honestly liked that moment in Endgame where Captain America says the line “Hail Hydra” and I thought of this moment.
Happy Easter everyone! Keep up the awesome work!
The Magneto/Maximoff twins retcon is ignored by fandom to this day
3:50 Batman, Superhero and Wonderwoman? Hahahahaha
Thought he would say Superman
lol
DC's big 2-1/2
Honestly, the Hydra Cap wasn't that awful. OBVIOUSLY Marvel would go along with the "this is the real Cap, not a fake" because otherwise it would spoil the entire story.
I bet it burns didio that people love 52 to this day, and tell anybody who will listen to ignore countdown
People love dunking on Quesada, and they should, but damn DiDio really did feel like the more aggressively destructive EIC.
You forgot when Superman renounced his American citizenship, and when Captain Steve Rogers randomly beat up a bunch of drafted US soilders during the Vietnam war.
actually it was revealed in issue 2 of captain america that his past was alterd forcefully
to bad bad angry fanboys shouting "nazi" was the only thing mention anyone heard of it
The complete Jason Aaron Avengers run.
This. I tried to get into it because I liked Aaron’s Thor run but.... it was so BAD!
@@jojomojofofo The avengers suck anyway. The MCU ruined movies and comics and it inspired garbage like the new 52 and DC rebirth and Doomsday clock and three Jokers and Daredevil one more day and flash forward and heroes in crisis.
Rob Liefeld youngblood in my opinion is a lot like the MCU. However youngblood is the MCU done right.
I like a lot of 90s image comics and valiant comics characters.
Spiderman is overrated
My Life as a Teenage Robot is a million times better.
I love his tun
secret empire was an 1970s redo
@@iamnotawfulanymore3873 What are you talking about? Say what you want about MCU, don't blame it for ruining Avengers, comics or movies, they did that well enough themselves. And definitely not comparing to Youngblood... And I'm sorry where are you hearing this garbage of inspiring New 52? New 52 was planned by Dan Didio for years before creation of the MCU and had nothing to do with it. It was meant to not be weighed down by 70 years of continuity. DC Rebirth was made to restore hope to the DC Universe and was basically another standard DC Rebirth. Doomsday Clock failed because of delays on the book and was meant to restore pre-Flashpoint continuity. Three Jokers was not bad and agin, has no inspiration from MCU. Same case with Flash Forward and Daredevil: One More Day, which is actually good unlike the original One More Day because Chip Zdarsky is an actual writer unlike Joe Quesada.
Secret Empire is so underrated.. I really enjoyed the story
@@noneofurbusinesss6761 Agreed. These people aren't very bright.
You can be intelligent and understand a story and still not like it. You can like scrambled eggs and hate hard boiled eggs....doesn't mean you don't understand hard boiled eggs, it's just subjective.
I am finding out I don't like Cates writing...I'm in the minority.
I liked the 2nd Thor movie, I'm in the minority there too.
It's subjective.
Damn, so close. Linkara reviewed 8 out of 10 of these stories.
I liked Ultimatum, actually, especially Jonah Jameson's regrets for hating Spiderman after seeing him risk his life to save as much people as he could.
I believe that’s more about Bendis cleaning up after Ultimatum. It’s the best Jameson character moment I can think of, but it’s not really a credit to the main storyline itself.
Yeah that was very much not what happened in New X-Men. The genocide of Genosha is literally the 1st story of Morrison's run.
Glad someone else caught that too! They also attributed the retcon of Xorn not actually being Magneto to Morrison's run as well, but I believe that was a different writer that retconned that.
That's right. I know that Chuck Austen took over the book after Morrison left and introduced the other Xorn while Claremont started a new Excalibur series at the same time that reintroduced Magneto as alive. Both happened within just a few months of Morrison's run, showing how much Marvel was eager to undo that plot point.
Which was a real shame. Magneto has a joking throwaway line during New X-Men about how his secondary mutation is always coming back and I don't know why they couldn't have just left the Xorn/Magneto revelation as it was and was, leave him dead for more than just a few months, and then bring him back in a more hand-wavey/less convoluted way than all that while not having to undo any of Morrison's run. I assume it was because Claremont wanted to use Magneto and might as well make him happy.
What's weird about the destruction of Genosha and the death of all those mutant is that the X-Men blame humanity for it when the real culprit was Charles' mutant twin sister,. And they should know this.
Another title for this list: Top 10 Comics Linkara Has or Will Review
Hey Jules, I didn't realize you did WhatCulture Comics too. Will have to listen to more :D
What's weird about the destruction of Genosha and the death of all those mutant is that the X-Men blame humanity for it when the real culprit was Charles' mutant twin sister,. And they should know this.
i came to the conclusion a long time ago,that humans AND mutants in the marvel universe are too dumb to live
Before Watching: Obligatory 'One More Day' mention incoming?
EDIT: Of course
You forgot that the sex tape in Ultimates 3 was aired on network television. Insane.
I'm glad enough time has passed that "Death Of Superman" and "Clone Saga" aren't on this list, since they're the ones every old fan hates but unlike every other entry on this list they actually led to some good stories and character development.
Thing about Death of Superman and even Captain America's assassination during Marvel Civil War I was that both characters were meant to be permanently killed. Thankfully the fans caught wind of both plans and DC/Marvel had to changed their minds.
@@Graeystone no, if I remember correctly death of Cap America was very good written and his revival was... Well it have no sense
@@user-Andrew90000 Same with Death of Superman... and that really exploded the trend of "no one stays dead in comics." Yeah resurrections had happened before but not very often, but after the resurrection of Superman, they were like "if they did it to Superman, they can do it to anybody."
As I recall, Marvel did not walk back Cap not being a Hydra at the end. Good Captain America was the Cosmic Cube creation, based on the memory of Good Cap (when Cap had forgotten he was evil- (the had Cube originally restored his memory, making him evil again)). And I'm pretty sure they still have the two Caps running around to day (evil one in jail).
Yeah, this is why I didn't like it, it made a confusing hash of it in the end.
Yeah they screwed up the ending, but that was not the original plan.
@@goldenstatewarriors9418 Yea, they kinda had to rush it due to the backlash.
I like the stuff Nick Spencer puts out and I still wonder what he would've wrote, if he was able to write what he planned to write.
I just viewed Hydra Cap like Red Son Superman.
@04:40
What are you talking about. That is the greatest line ever penned in a comic
I burst out laughing when he described All-Stat Batman & Robin. I think that one shoulda topped the list
Honestly secret war actually pretty good
I thought Countdown was great because I had no idea what was coming up next. Many of the character arcs were great character building. For instance, Countdown is the series that build Harley Quinn into a solo character who can carry a title.
All Star Batman and Robin had the creepiest implications of csa from Batman towards Robin too. That comic was like actually physically revolting. It forever ruined "The Dark Knight Returns"
Captain America took over the world without breaking any laws too.
I didn’t hate secret empire. I really enjoyed it. It played on reader’s expectations.
One More Day is worse than Secret Empire IMO because its all because Quesads doesnt relate to readers anymore. his editorial decisions to Marvel are abysmal. his dad died of lung cancer and suddenly theres an edict that no one is allowed to smoke in the marvel universe anymore.
And Secret Empire wasn't terrible. Issues 0-6 was pretty good. Captain America: Steve Rogers #1 was awful tho. But HYDRA Ca lasted for 1.5-2 years. One More Day has lasted for over 13 so far.
Love your videos, keep it up
saying "EVERYONE" and even being so bold as to put it in all-caps is a great way to get people to disagree with you. why bother ?
As a comic fans since I was a child I was unaware people hated some of these stories especially Cap's Hail Hydra moment. I loved that story in the end he betrays the Red Skull lmao. It was the only thing interesting during Civil War 2 .
_"...because Xorn's mutation caused his brain to develop into a star..."_
Yeah, this is the moment everyone should have bailed. Plenty of mutations could justify that helmet and being powerful, but this one? Already *silly.*
What about his brother, whose brain had become a black hole - because apparently that’s the opposite and can ALSO be contained by an iron helmet...
Marvel had filed for bankruptcy a few years earlier. They had to undo the damage to quality and content that had happened during the Revlon years, and were willing to be more silly and experimental in an effort to bring readers back.
I absolutely loved the intrigue of Secret Empire! Made me read Captain America again.
I think they bungled the explanation of hydra cap and how, who and what cosmic cube Cap was.
I'd like to suggest a dishonorable mention for the X-Men storyline 'The Draco,' or really anything Chuck Austen had written.
Yes. Thank you.
How about Cry for Justice and its decision to kill off Lian Harper? Because, you know, we can't have superheroes who have children.
There was mistake describing Magneto here. You said described Magneto being Xorn, killing Jean Grey and then dying in Cassandra Nova's attack on Genosha. The order went, Magneto apparently dies in Genosha, Xorn is introduced and then revealed to be Magneto (which was a big reveal partly because readers last saw him die on Genosha and had not seen him since), who then kills Jean Grey and then Wolverine slices his head off. The images went along with this but the dialogue didn't. But yeah, the Xorn/Magneto confusion was messed up and incredibly convoluted.
Well, I guess not everyone hated The Clone Saga. I remember enjoying it.
Keep up the gd videos bro👍
How did spiderman the clone saga not make this list?
Your xorn/magneto timeline is wrong. Magneto had “died” in Cassandra Nova’s attack on Genosha BEFORE Xorn arrived - right at the start of Morrison’s run. The beheading you show in the panels is by wolverine only a page or so after he kills Jean
Ultimates 3 makes a good case for why incest apologists should be oppressed.
i actually like countdown: the disjointed bizarre nature of the story was the point.
It tied in with the Final Crisis later on,which i thought was also incredibly underrated
Heroes Reborn killed Captain America writer Mark Gruenwald.
In the words of SF Debris: "Rob Liefeld made a comic so bad it may have killed a man!"
Back in my day we called superhero superman.
honorable mention would Brian Michael Bendis run on x-men
Please stop using "One More Day" in lists about bad comic book story lines. Not because you're wrong to include it, but because I don't want to be reminded of it.
I understand the reasons people didn't like Secret Empire, but as a dramatic and edgy story, it was an enjoyable read for me. Also, the artwork is pretty spectacular from page to page.
At least the stakes were extreme with the earth isolated, outside the chitauri, inside a Nazi empire. No way in, no way out.
Only people who don’t actually read comics but love to complain didn’t like secret empire, only a fool or a novice thought cap was actually hydra
@@johnnieriot13 FACTS!!!!!
@@johnnieriot13 The reason its so hated is because the Captain America: Steve Rogers #1 series leading up to it was bad.
After Heroes Reborn, Rob Liefield make his Captain America comics that he never had the chance to make into a new one where it's the same story but he used Fighting American.
I honestly didn’t mind Secret Empire. Obviously it was pretty controversial turning Cap into a fascist dictator, but isn’t the point of a well-made story to challenge the convictions of its characters? Some parts were a bit unnecessary and weird tho. Hydra managed to make everyone think history was completely different overnight and some really dumb elements from Civil War 2 carried over. I just think everyone overreacted after the “Hail Hydra” line and that tainted their overall thoughts of the whole event.
And then one of the best superhero movies of all time goes and casually references number one
I literally stopped reading Spider-Man after "One More Day".
Really, no Sins Past? Okay, we all want to forget this story...
"Batman, superhero, and wonder woman"
Edit: *EVERYONE* noticed it.
Your appraisel of New 52 Wally West is unfair because they reintroduced Wally West as black teenager with Iris West as an African American.
This back Wally West was given the iconic Kid Flash costume and name. The fan backlash against this rebooted Wally West revolved around erasing the family with kids Wally West had build with his wife Linda and shunting two decades of Wally West stories to Barry Allen.
"Batman, Superhero, and Wonder Woman all taking a sabbatical"
My personal Hate List- most are probably Spiderman
10. Identity Crisis. It was boring.
9.Batman vs KGBeast ( left him for dead before rewrite)
8. Professor X's evil sister
7.Ms Marvel giving birth to her lover
6.Maira Mataggart saying she has no regrets in the afterlife( after all the awful things shes done!)
5.ASM#400- Aunt Mays death was later said to a clone. Takes the emotional pecos away!
4.Venom Dark Story- Unnecessary' 'Dark' backstory of Brock before Venom
3.Spiderman Reign- MJ died of Spidey Radioactive Sperm
2.Sinners Past- Osborn slept with Gwen.
1. One MORE( Friggin') Day
Enter the Phoenix needs to be on this list
This is pretty much a perfect list...
Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder was never a reboot. It was done in the same flavour as All Star Superman. A fun story that has no real basis in continuity. No one knew it would suck so badly.
2:45 "he must wear a specially designed helmet to risk incinerating everyone around him." Surely he wears the helmet to reduce/prevent the risk of that happening?
How can you believe they wouldn't pull the rug on cap being a hydra plant? I actually liked the storyline bc it got me so invested hoping that it wasn't true! That's what comics are best at anyway.. seeing what works. And let's not forget what we're responsible for when they let us vote on a batman story..🤐
A lot of people loved ultimatum.. that’s how I found out about it and and that’s why they brought characters from that universe to the marvel 616 universe
Well, I loved Secret Empire. I think it was a very good swerve that Cap was Hydra. I immediately knew something was wrong with him. And that Kobrik (the personification of the Cosmic Cube) had something to do with it.
How tf you didn't put the ultimates at number 1 ?
There is a distinct lack of Superior Spiderman in this video. Other than that, it's great!
ah yes. Man in Bat Costume, Wonderous Female, and Super Hero. My favorite DC Trio
It was the real Rogers, but timey Wimey and it still lead to captain America saying hail hydra in the movies so
I actually Love Secret Empire. Best Captain America Story Line in Years
FACTS!
All-Star Batman & Robin is almost tolerable if you take the Linkara approach, and tell yourself that "Batman" is really a lunatic named Crazy Steve who stole the belt and the car, and is running around the city doing all this stuff.
It was fun to read that serie - new interesting approach
I wonder if Miller was actually trying to sabotage the All-Star line and intentionally wrote a horrible comic.
I honestly loved Secret Empire
I think the Hydra Cap is still the real Cap, technically. IIRC, the Cosmic Cube corrupted the real Cap and retconned his past. Then, the heroes convinced it to "remake" Cap from their memories and ideas of what Cap used to be. So the current Captain America is actually the fake one, because he was artificially constructed from all the good memories the Avengers had of him, and the real Cap died that day.
Secret Empire became a great story once you got past the shock of Hydra Captain America.
I really love All-Star Batman & Robin still to this day. Its a shame so many people hated it.
Am I the only person that noticed him saying "Batman paints himself yellow" when it was Robin?
I'm genuinely surprised that the clone saga wasn't on here