What Fuels Tom Ripley's Insanity?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 вер 2020
- Spotify: tinyurl.com/y7jlldzt
Apple Podcasts: tinyurl.com/y9qvbax9
Patreon: / raidersofthelostpodcast
TikTok: / raidersofthelostpodcast
Google Podcasts: tinyurl.com/yxq5unaz
Full Episode
• The Greatest Serial Ki...
#raidersofthelostpodcast #tomripley #thetalentedmrripley - Фільми й анімація
Tom was very close to finally be his authentic self with Peter and we clearly see how good he made him feel. Tom had obvious romantic feelings for him, feelings he couldn't manage when he was obsessed with Dickey. The first time he met Peter at the opera, he immediately got his attention and later on, we see how vulnerable he was with him while playing the piano at his side. The film suggests they exchanged more than what was shown on screen (a kiss ? An intimate relation ?). I think Tom chose to kill Peter over Meredith because It was easier to create a story around his disappearance whereas Meredith came aboard with family. I feel sad for Peter, he was such a beautiful person.
Couldn’t agree more!
At Ripley's degree of psychopathy, I would find it very difficult for him to form a lasting relationship with anyone whether it be Dickie or Peter.
@@MultiSUPERLATIVO Yes, we never got to see how Tom would behave in a lasting relationship beyond the superficiality of adoration. The tragic aspect of Tom lays within the glimpses of humanity that were encouraged by Peter's kindness. But his lack of remorse/compassion, violence, manipulation, fragile ego of a little boy...are all very incompatible with love. People on the psychopathy spectrum are disconnected with the interiority of others, they just pretend to understand or care but they are driven by selfishness and insecurity.
@@Sikanda. I very much agree with you. There is no possibility of a lasting/healthy relationship for someone like Ripley. His destiny is the realm of solitude and he knows it: he is ultra-intelligent.
He showed he did want to kill Meredith (which would make sense as she was the last remaining thread) more than Peter when he asked her "are you here alone?"
Had she been alone he would have stayed with Peter IMO.
I don't see Tom Ripley as being a pure psychopath. I don't think he intended or wanted to kill Dickey, and believe he had genuine remorse (crying scene at the opera).
I think that's one reason the movie works so well because Tom's true nature is so debatable and nuanced. Straight up psychopaths (like the source material) make boring characters, whereas Tom Ripley was tragic/Shakespearean.
Was it a coincidence that he took Shakespeare to Italy and no clothes? The Bard who seemed to understand the psychological intricacies of murder from the inside out:
Tis safer to be that which we destroy than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy!
I feel like Tom doesn’t have to kill Peter at the end. He could just tell Meredith that he’s traveling under the name of Tom as disguise and not tell anybody about it. It would have somewhat explained his “duplicity” even if both Peter and Meredith met each other on ship. Just my two cents.
Also Marge is gonna miss her friend Peter who Meredith saw on the boat so i dont think he is in the clear just yet
This movie has an interesting blend of the great Gatsby and American psycho.
I totally see that
nice.
Indeed
Brilliant
You can almost hear Tom thinking, “If I had Dickie’s money, I would live so much better than he does”.
Yup
Spot ON......Most middle-class folks when exposed to the super rich, feel they could do so much better in every aspect.
Peter, regardless of his sexuality..is probably the best person in the film.. intelligent, talented, sensitive, and more. He is a person a audience member can aspire to be...
what do you mean regardless of his sexuality ahaha
What do you mean regardless of his sexuality??
@@LaraTang LMFAO
what is bad about his sexuality?
@@pozlock1997 What a stupid question. Peter sux peters, that's what's bad about his sexuality.
Tom was sinister from the start in New York when he dishonestly took a thousand dollars (about 10 thousand dollars today) from Dickie's dad just so he could live his fantasy at his expense. Sociopaths don't care about living as someone else. Tom has a dark side that he's either fallen into when he was younger or has a psychological disorder, but definitely not sociopathy.
Thanks for the insight, he does seem to have an eventual lack of conscience after killing Dickie. To so non-nonchalantly live as Dick Greenleaf just hours after killing him. So you could say where a psychopath has no conscious and a sociopath has a weak conscious, maybe he was a sociopath first then became a psychopath.
@@raidersofthelostpodcast_ Psychopaths are born psychopaths; you can't become one or stop being one. It's a condition where parts of the brain don't function.
People do, however, become sociopaths. Its official term is Anti Social Personality Disorder (ASPD). It joins the "socio" and the "path" because ASPDs has many similarities to psychopaths. One other nickname for ASPD is "secondary-psychopath".
People become ASPDs from neglect, usually by their parents. Neither psychopaths nor ASPDs has a conscience. If a psychopath has been neglected, he won't get any disorders because they don't care, so you can't be a psychopath and a sociopath.
*Conscious means being awake.
Tom certainly doesn't have much of a conscience, but he has a connection with classical music and CARES enough to put effort into leading another life. Neither ASPD nor psychopaths have care.
I'd like to add, I read a review, haha, Tom is described as a young sociopath/psychopath. I love the story, I find it intriguing, don't get me wrong. I've read the book also. Seems Tom wanted to be rich or wealthy, he'd been running some money schemes, he wanted to be somebody, not a nobody. The book talks about I think it's his aunt, she kind of taunted him emotionally and was very stingy with her money and gave Tom just about enough to survive on and little more. To me, that's sort of his motive so to say; he wanted money and he didn't want to be a nobody. Probably still falls in having low self esteem or not liking his position in society. Many people want to improve their job status, but not by killing others to get there. In the subsequent Ripley books he's still running schemes for money. The emotional side I could hardly begin to describe; that would be a lot of analysis. Yes, great movie, I love it.
@@thememaster7 Very true, the brain of a psychopath is wired differently which is why It could even be diagnosed in children. A sociopath can be created later in life due to triggering experiences, bad relationships. In both cases, they share similarities such as the lack of empathy.
Tom clearly shows guilt for some of his crimes
Toward the end of the film on the boat Tom asks Meredith if she's alone. He couldn't kill her because Aunt Joan & co. would have known she was missing. Look at Tom's face when he tells Meridith that he's not with Peter. He seems to process what he has to do, then he looks at her and his smile seems forced. Because of that I have to agree that Tom had feelings for Peter, the one person he did feel comfortable around. Definitely one of my favorite films. Meredith & Peter are my favorite characters, I wish they had more screen time.
Totally agree! He saw Peter as someone whom he could be himself with
I agree with the take that Tom had genuine feelings for Peter and saw him as a person he could have an honest relationship with.
The tragic irony of the story is that Tom’s own actions led to a situation where he is forced to kill the only person who has loved him for him, essentially dooming himself to a life full of deceit.
The implication after the credits roll is that Tom will need to continue to impersonate Dickie for Meredith and her family while his lover lies dead in the cabin below. Rather dark if you think about it.
Brilliant movie and so well casted
Great comment!
I have been in love with films my entire life. This is the one and only movie that I will ever describe as being perfect. The visual, the attention to detail, the seamless transitions.
Agree so much!
Love the movie as well, just saw you mentioned attention to detail. I completely agree with this except for in one scene at dickies’ house, the vinyl for Miles Davis’ album, Tutu, can be seen on a shelf. This album didn’t release until 1986 and I’m fairly sure the movie took place around the 1960’s haha.
watch the devil all the time if you haven't already.
@@Shawnkaysal the editing, too is spot on. This film got nominated for oscars for good reason. The setting of Italy in the summertime of 1950s, is so, so gorgeous.
The plot is so good. I will definitely try to read the book. Did you watch Hitchcock's Vertigo? Amazing plot.
Tom tells Dickie that his gifts are lying, forging signatures, and impersonating others. I didn’t like Freddy, but I felt sympathy for Tom as the mistreated outsider. Brilliant film.
They really make you empathize with him before his murders
Yeah, the genius of the film is making you sympathise with the soiciopath as all the other characters are such vile people
No, he lied, scammed, and stole and took what wasn't his. When Freddy Miles comes on the scene Tom knows that his Friendship is threatened. Also with The "Tommie" sneer especially on The Boat in The Book Version Vic Simmons one of Tom's Friends yelled at him and said "Oh For C-S Sake Tommie just shut up!' My cousin is like that, he'll give you the brushoff in a heartbeat. You'll make plans then he'll stand you up at the last minute because someone else manipulated him to do what he wanted.
@@laminage 💯
Idk because I just watched the movie for the first time and I liked everyone except for Tom. I knew Tom was a weird creep the moment I saw him. And I went into this movie blind with never seeing the trailer or even heard of the movie.
For me, Marge's scene confronting Tom about Dikie's rings is the most powerful (along with Dickie's murder)
It's an excellent portrayal of the truth that comes out, no matter what lies may come at you ...Marge sees Tom's hand in his poket and blood coming through the fabric of his robe and know he will try to kill her too.
Another valid point is how women were treated as second class citizens, the portrayal is just spot on ..... ultimately the murder is not solved because "the men think they know better" and have filed the whole affair without having the full picture by not believing or involving Marge.
And although Marge has very good reasons to be taken seriously, she is merely treated as a neurotic while Tom get to go free.
Sorry to say, I've seen this type of scenario in real life all too often.
Great assessment
Remember when Ripley says "let me hold you Marge." like he was holding Dickie in the boat.
I 100 percent agree! It portrays so intensely how oppressed women were during this period in time.
@@kenzwal3104 I don’t think it does at all just because she knew the truth and it was suppressed by the dad. I don’t think that was the message of that twist in the movie and it’s kind of a stretch to say it’s a display of women being oppressed IMO
Well women are the most emotional creatures on the face on this earth. Marge was spot on, but was also blinded by her love for an asshole like Dickie. It’s easy to see why she appeared neurotic.
I think an important pillar to Tom’s character is that the audience is never given the feeling that he’s actually in control. He constantly seems like he’s just in over his head or dealt a bad deal that he has to solve every thirty minutes or so. It’s easier to see him as a victim of circumstances that he attempts to make advantages of but faces consequences. It’s what keeps us sympathetic for him despite him ultimately being a really awful person. His fate was deserved due to how he tore apart Marge’s love life. He’s not as sympathetic in the book as he plans out the murder with Dickie and more, has much more control over it and is overall a snake from the get go.
Great points
That exactly.
I don't know why, but at some point in the movie I started feeling major fear and stress for tom, and those feeling stayed with me for about an hour and a half..
Every time I thought he was gonna flee, and give up, he tried another route, another lie, another attempt at masking and shaping himself as this peacefull high class person which he so wanted to be.
But he never seemed to solve a single problem without raising a couple more.
Some people are just that type of person. Idk why I wanted shit to work out for him, maybe because we knew he didn't want to kill dickie, and then didn't want that single mistake to ruin the little potential he had of getting the life he was slowly realizing he craved.
I mean, Dickie was a cheater lol, Tom caused Marge grief but her relationship with Dickie was shitty, there’s also when she talked to Tom about how Dickie can ignore or disregard people, including her
Just saw this movie last night, and I thought it was incredibly kino-tier. From my perspective, Peter was the first and only person that Tom didn't kill without remorse. He didn't like Dickie or his friend, but Peter was someone he could be genuine with. The ending of the film serves to illustrate the fact that the web of deceit he's put so much effort into to cover his crime will no longer work in his favor, making him a prisoner of his own cleverness and "talents".
Exactly 🙏
I love Dickie's character the petulant spoiled heir who oozes charisma and passion but can't settle down and commit to anything.
Same!
I'm not so sure at the end Mr. Greenleaf has no suspicions of Tom. When Marge goes into hysterics on the dock and he pulls her back on the boat he says, "now is not the time." That made me think he was going to pursue it further down the line.
These fella in the dark shirt is correct in this conversation. Tom cries when he kills as he's killing Peter because he's got feelings for him and feels a potential relationship may have ensued, but he has to take him out since he will be exposed once Meredith and Peter see him simultaneously. But nice try guy in the red or peach shirt
yeah he definitely had feelings for peter and was very sad that he had to kill him
No Tom mad if u have feelings for someone u don't kill them!
Red shirt guy is correct actually
He would’ve killed Meredith over Peter if she wasn’t with her family 100%
@@donnahobbs5174 I don’t think u saw the movie or real life but ok
A few points:
2:40 Ripley is not on a 'killing spree'. He kills Dickie [in an act that could be seen as 'self defense' and was the intention by director Anthony Minghella on the audio commentary] and then Freddie [out of necessity]. The ultimate way he gets out is framing Dickie for Freddie's murder and convincing the police he committed sucuide. So 2 murders. The peter killing follows later which leads to...
5:09 with everything neatly tied up [or so he thinks] he is escaping from Italy with Peter in what is meant to be the equiverlent of riding off into the sunset with the love of his life. When his lie [which occured even before he meet the real Dickie] to Meredith comes back to haunt him, he tells Peter they've staying inside in an effort to try and save things. When Peter mentions he did see Meridith, he know he'll have to kill him [out of, again, necessity] and ruminates to himself that his 'riding off into the sunset' ending is not going to happen ['I'm going to be suck in the basement forever, arn't I']. When he says 'Better to be a fake somebody [what Meredith and the other characters see him as] than a real nobody' Peter says that's the last thing he is, the only character to do so and proving that Tom's ultimate fate is not the happy ending, but losing the one person who loved him for being Tom due to his actions. As he strangles him, he wants to know why Peter loved him [one of the reasons Peter gives, 'Tom is not a nobody' reinforcing the earlier point] to reinforce the loss. Hence why Ripley cries at the end. He might be 'free' in body, but his mind is forever in hell.
Killing Spree is defined by a killer who kills two or more people in a short period of time. Tom kills 2 in a very short period of time which classifies it as a killing spree in my opinion then Peter very soon after
@@raidersofthelostpodcast_ No. You're incorrect on this one. Chris Watts killed 3 people in one night, but it wasn't a killing spree. The definition is ignoring a lot of elements.
Tom discovers a new endeavor: To outdo Dickie in everything..to be a better Dickie than Dickie.
Well observed, definitely to be a more sophisticated and cultured Duckie, using his allowance to buy interesting pieces of art etc
That’s because Tom’s not really assuming Dickie’s identity but is more Tom playing the role of Dickie. Obviously adaptation allows for artistic licence.
Ofcourse Tom wanted to settle as Tom with Peter and end being Dickie. When he met Meredith on the boat the first question he asked was are you alone. The question implies if he could kill her because that way there would be no one with a trace of him being Dickie but unfortunately since she was with her whole family he had no choice but to kill Peter.
👌👌
I mean, he did have a choice. He could have chosen to be outed as a murderer rather than killing someone he loved. Tom didn't want to make that choice, but it was there.
My take on the film Ripley is his family disowned him because they found out he was gay, and that’s what caused his spiral into poverty, self loathing, and need to become other people.
Not like them, become them.
I’m sure the director told Matt Damon something similar to that affect, so he would know how to play Ripley.
It would explain why for most shots of this movie, Damon resembles more of a lost, injured puppy than anything else.
Great take!
Thanks for this great analysis. Agree with all what was said about the sheer quality of this film. I have watched it multiple times and appreciate new details with each viewing.
Thanks!
Tom is NOT explicitly gay, but yes he did love Peter. That he loved Peter is not really up for debate if you actually absorbed the character arc and paid attention to his emotional journey aside from the killings. He’s capable of love, he simply lacks a conscience. By suggesting that he was only using Peter, you’re confusing a sociopath with a psychopath-and Tom Ripley is a definite sociopath. Sociopaths feel intense emotions, whereas psychopaths have no emotions whatsoever. The fact that Tom cradles Dickie and shows even a flicker of remorse is proof of that. The fact that he cries leading up to killing Peter is also proof of that. Conversely, a psychopath would have no qualms about his actions. A psychopath would certainly not have taken the time to talk to Peter and soothe him and strangle him so intimately; he would have gotten it over with quicker and more callously. Now, both a psychopath and a sociopath would still have carried out the murders, but you’re incorrectly assuming that because he killed several people that he’s a psychopathic serial killer with no feeling. Not so. The entire Dickie relationship sets him up as a clear sociopath with extreme feeling, so that the by the time we get to his relationship with Peter, we share in his desperation at the prospect of finally having a life. We share his flicker of optimism before it’s tragically snuffed out-when the repercussions of what he’s done come back to haunt him like a curse and even a chance at love cannot compel him to fight his insatiable urge to checkmate his opponent… and in this case, his opponent is Meredith. Not Peter. She’s the obstacle. She’s the one who suddenly holds the cards just when it seemed like a happy ending. Also… FYI… the author who created him (and the Tom Ripley fan base) know him as a sociopath, not a psychopath. Furthermore, the entire Tom Ripley franchise depicts him as someone who feels genuine love and affection for people; and he does regret the senseless killings which take place in The Talented Mr Ripley.
The film itself, and indeed the character’s entire motivation, suggest that he did truly love Peter and that’s what makes the film a beautiful tragedy. He finally finds someone who loves him for who he is-without pretending… without having to change his appearance or his persona. Peter loves Tom-and Tom doesn’t have to pretend to be anyone else to win him over. He’s spent his life avoiding being Tom Ripley; he finally found someone to sail off into the sunset with and he can stop the games… only that’s when Meredith shows up and ruins everything. And Ripley, being a sociopath, feels that he has no choice but to do what he does best to get away. You see, the problem with the theory that he’s knowingly using Peter all along and that he intends to eventually kill him, is that it doesn’t make for a very good ending and it robs us of the tragedy. It turns a beautiful tragedy and a beautiful character into a run of the mill slasher. If everything he said is merely a manipulation, then there’s really nothing special about this movie or this character. He’s just another psychopath with a kill list… but we already know that’s not true. Everything Tom does is for self-preservation. And being with Peter-being safe with Peter-requires no drastic act of self-preservation. In fact, the best thing he can at that point is be himself and lead a quiet future together. Without Peter as the anchor who could finally make Tom stop… then you’re suggesting that it was just a string of killings and that Tom has no complexity whatsoever. He makes a bunch of kills, has zero feelings about anyone, and there was no payoff for us because the movie just simply ends without any evolution to the character. There was a beginning… an inciting incident… a climax… and no end? The whole thing flatlines on a plateau? What the hell is the point of the movie or the character if you don’t feel the same sense of tragedy that makes him somewhat likable and human? Most people don’t notice that the entire film is shot from Tom’s perspective. And by that I mean he is present in each and every scene; we don’t cut away to conversations which don’t include him; he’s always present or hiding in the bushes. There’s a reason for that. To help humanize him. This is HIS tragic story, not theirs.
Where you’re wrong is that Tom didn’t need Peter’s identity. He’d already gotten away with all the murders. He could never hope to replace someone like Peter given that he was a recognizable musician and conductor. No, Tom loved Peter. And more importantly, he loved that Peter loved HIM. But the only way to avoid being caught was to get rid of Peter and snuggle up to Meredith as Dickie until he could make a clean getaway-and likely kill her in the process, so that no one is left to connect Tom and Dickie. Remember, she caught him traveling under “R” at the beginning. As I said before, he’s capable of love, he simply lacks a conscience. Love is grand… but not if it gets in his way. And one might even say that killing Peter was, to Tom, an act of mercy; to prevent him from learning the truth about him. Don’t forget that for a moment he wishes they could stay in their room, which is a very simple fix to his problem. But as the reality sets in that he’s not going to pull this off, and Peter starts asking more and more questions, Tom starts to fall apart and make mistakes.
Basically, Tom did not go into anything INTENDING to kill anybody or to take over their lives; doing those things was simply a means to an end when he was cornered. This is not a movie about an identity thief and a mimic; this is a movie about a troubled young man whose complexities manifest in sociopathic killings. You’re thinking of him as someone who kills in order to take over identities, but he’s not. He’s a person who realizes that he has a talent for impersonating people and it helps him to get away with murder. Look closer. He didn’t want to kill Dickie; it happened in a heated moment in which Tom was insulted and challenged and defensive. He lost control. Otherwise he could have killed Dickie long ago; he had plenty of opportunities to kill him and take over his life. He only did it when he had to. Likewise, he didn’t intend to kill Freddie or he would have tracked him down and done it ages ago, to get him out of the way and keep Dickie for himself. No, it’s not until he was caught-and even then, when cornered, he let Freddie leave. It wasn’t until Freddie talked to the woman downstairs and was absolutely certain that Tom was posing as Dickie that Tom had no other choice but to bash in his skull. And then again with Marge-throughout the movie, Tom could have done away with her and had Dickie all to himself if he was a psychopath. He could have forged a letter from Marge, pretending to break up with him, when in truth Marge was very much dead. But no, she continued to be a thorn in his side and he didn’t do away with her because she was no threat to him. It was only when Marge found Dickie’s rings and suspected him of murder that Tom had no other choice but to plan on her demise. So you see, believing that Tom has some plan orchestrated in advance is just plain wrong. Suggesting as much can only mean that you don’t understand the movie or the character.
As for the homosexuality… Tom is not explicitly a closet homosexual. He might be… but the creator of the character has expressed that she does not believe him to be gay. Across five novels and three films he’s portrayed as potentially bisexual, though his relationships with women are not explored in The Talented Mr Ripley. As I said already, he’s a sociopath who feels intense emotions for everyone, regardless of their gender. Now, if you consider the film version of The Talented Mr Ripley to be a standalone piece and you wish to discount the five novels and two other films (Ripley Under Ground and Ripley’s Game) as being part of the same canon/universe, then sure you can choose to believe that he’s a straightup closet case. Director/screenwriter Anthony Minghella certainly took some liberties in expanding upon the homoeroticism and even added material which does not appear in the book. But if you want a broader understanding of who Tom is by reading the novels and seeing the other films, he’s a sociopath and a con-artist who will go to any length to get away with the things he’s done. But he detests murder unless it’s absolutely necessary. That is a trait which is very much present in the film. Killing Dickie was an impulse when he felt bullied and threatened… and having gotten away with it, he kept going every time he was cornered. Moreover, Tom continues to live as Tom Ripley in subsequent installments of the franchise; he is not depicted as a serial identity thief because Tom Ripley has no reason to hide. He only dons a new identity when a situation calls for it.
Great comment!
Tom was also seconds away from murdering marge once he realizes he’s been discovered for having Dickies jewelry. The fictional city was also partially filmed at the real beach town “Positivo” just south of Rome.
100%
Love the conversation and it’s fine to get different interpretations
🤝
Fantastic observations here, enjoying it
Thanks Ben!
Great discussion, really good points
Thanks!
Matt Damon's portrayal of the very ambiguous, cunning and somewhat sympathetic villain Mr Tom Ripley. Was one of the first times where I actually wanted the villain to get away with his crimes. I think it's because the way that Matt portrays the character, he's actually the most likeable character in the entire movie. As he's surrounded by snobs and ungrateful privileged douchebags.
Peter was cool though
I agree with the black shirt guy... that’s how I see Tom and Peter’s relationship
The black shirt guy appreciates it 👌😎
I only agree up to a certain level. Tom and Peter's chemistry was palpable since they bumped at the theatre, but the key here is that he was about to achieve his full fantasy of money, adoring company (maybe not love), and leaving his crimes behind.
The easiest way to prove that Tom values Peter highly at least as a companion if not a lover, is to compare his treatment of Meredith vs Peter. The mental process is a little long but very illustrative:
We can feel the impending threat as soon as Meredith spots him on the boat and he becomes rigid - Tom has a track record of killing when he loses his cool, and Peter only brings out his calmest, most comfortable self. But now he's not, and by now he's learnt to use murder as a getaway.
So it's clear what's going through his mind at the start of the conversation with Meredith. The way he talks about her "reward" for spotting him makes me shiver. However, she's not alone so he can't take her overboard. And her family has seen him as well so he can't gaslight her as an obsessed woman crushing on this bad boy legend. So he tries to engage plan C (the double life) by charming her with an overt promise of romance and meetings at set times; and again not only does she dismantle that plan by mentioning Peter, but Peter himself enquires him about the kiss.
So his last "reasonable" option is to bring Peter on board with this double life plan, an idea Peter doesn't even remotely entertain since without context he takes it as a sign of a forever closeted life.
Now, after all remotely viable options have turned into dust, here's when Tom decides it's going to be an either himself or Peter situation. And he makes his choice.
Tom is intrinsecally the exact same person throughout this final bit - it's only been a few minutes after all. However his mental process was inverted when looking at the people involved in this incident:
- He was going to murder Meredith (a pawn) as his first option, then gaslight her, then play her, and only if none of that was possible, let her live in peace. He doesn't consider her as a human, he only considers the practicalities: throwing her overboard would be fastest and relatively easy to get away with had she been alone.
- For Peter, who he at least appreciates, the process is reversed: Tom goes through 4 different plans before even considering telling Peter about Meredith's presence, and never even openly telling him the truth of why that is a problem. Tom is tortured by his actions and doesn't want to lose Peter's adoration (this might be his use to Tom, an ego booster). So it's only when his last desperate attempt fails that he comes to that determination.
TL;DR Tom would've killed Meredith right away without a second thought, but only does Peter when he sees no other way out.
@@faytdp I think Peter was an example of another one of Tom’s manipulation victims, the first being Dickie. Tom ,as said in the video, runs into people that see right through his facade, like Hoffman’s character. But Tom, as a sociopath, finds people that are blinded by his insanity or believe the false self he portrays. Peter trusted Tom, and Tom likely found some comfort by his presence, but Tom never cared for Peter, and Tom used him.
Incredible movie. Thank you for pointing out so many interesting points. Fabulous cinematography. LOVE this movie. I already liked Matt Damon, and it was my first Jude Law movie and they are both incredible in their roles. Matt with his subtleties and Jude with his charm and stiking appearance. Yes, and the female cast not soon forgotten!
🙌
He definitely had feelings for Peter. And remember after he kills dickie and he just cuddles with his body!! Likeeee that’s pretty sus
Yeah super messed up 😂
i do think tom wanted to stay with peter, just like he wanted to stay with dickie, but if peter had ever changed his mind about tom, i think he wouldve killed him. i think he only killed peter because merediths family were also on the boat, or else he wouldve only killed meredith
great discussion
Thanks!
Great analysis
This was an interesting conversation and analysis between the two of you. I also found this film fascinating. Can you recommend any other dramas similar to this one? Or perhaps not similar but which deal with mental illness and its consequences in people’s lives?
Primal Fear is another great one!
@@raidersofthelostpodcast_ Thanks!
Great acting, great directing, great writing, great score. It was perfect, perfect. Down to the last minute detail. My mind is blown by how I've never heard of this film until earlier today. It's easily my favourite movie. This is what all movies should be. It has great depth, but it is also just enthralling to watch even without thinking too hard. I'd recommend it to everyone if i didn't think it would be a bit concering to them😂.
🙏🙏
Saw this movie for the first time yesterday and its definitely one of my favorite movies of all time
Same!
I think Freddy was actually very insecure and possibly had feelings for Dickie. Philip Seymour Hoffmans portrayal was so brilliant and subtle that the things Freddy tried to keep secret weren’t even recognized by most of the viewing audience
Plus Freddy is over playing his masculinity by bragging about women often
Exactly!
I think Freddie saw Tom as a user and just because a man has feelings for and cares about a male friend, does not mean that there are repressed homosexual urges.
My theory is Dickie and Freddy liked eachother and Freddy saw Tom as a rival and Tom also saw Freddy as a rival for Dickies affection
Freddie likes Dickie as an equal. He had contempt for Tom as someone from a lower class.
I love this film. I believe Ripley loved Peter, I also think Peter and Dickie had a relationship.
I also love Ripleys Game. John malkovich is a really good Ripley
One of our favorite fictional characters!
How's the peeping Tommy, how's the peeping
Also he tells Marge and Peter, when Dickie dose something wrong I feel I've done something wrong. You can watch this film over and over and always find something new. It never gets old, plus the beauty of this film from location to costume, it's just a work of art
@@olivelgemmell7251 Freddie is just a genius character _Love him
I must have seen this film about 10 times, back in the 90s. including last week.
Brilliant insight
Thanks!
I just saw the movie last night and I was really impressed: one of the best movies I've seen in a while. I downloaded the book to try to understand the story better. In the end, I was left with serious doubts whether Dickie's father sent Ripley to do exactly what Ripley ended up doing. One thing: as an extremely shrewd and alert businessman, how did he not notice the very serious issue of the rings found by Marge? He also knew that Ripley was the killer, I suspect that!
The surprising exchange between Tom and Mr. Greenleaf's detective at the balcony was scary. The father investigated Tom's life from beginning to end and knew well who he was. Dickie, as it turned out, had problems with American justice.
Did Mr. Greenleaf not plan it all and Tom Ripley fell into the trap like a duckling?
I appreciate engaging conversation about Ripley’s behavior, both conscious and unconscious. When I heard Andrew Scott was going to be playing Ripley in the new Showtime production, I finally broke down and started reading all the books. Until now, I had never been interested to continue reading the stories. They’re going to do 5 seasons, one season for each book. After digging even deeper into Ripley’s persona, I think Andrew Scott is going to be phenomenal. The actor portraying him has to be suave, innocent, brilliant, arrogant, able to impersonate behavior and mannerisms, and a touch sexually ambivalent. Andrew Scott has commented that with Ripley being called “queer”, it really does require a bit of ambivalence. I’m excited. I loved book 2.
Love Patricia Highsmith's books! Definitely check out her others like Strangers On A Train. Can't wait for Andrew Scott's interpretaiton
@@raidersofthelostpodcast_ Glad I’m not alone 😁. I’ve never been a huge audiobook fan, because I often find myself zoning out and realizing I’m lost because I wasn’t paying attention to the story. But I’ve done a lot of road trips the past couple months, and decided to get the whole series on audiobook. I have to say, in book 2, when someone ends up using a rock for something 🤫🤭…I literally found myself with my mouth wide open in shock 🙀😳. I cannot wait to see how that scene plays out with Andrew Scott, omg. When I finish up I’ll look into her other books. I appreciate the recommendations. I hope you will breakdown the Showtime episodes when they come out, because I can only imagine what a goldmine it will be to unravel. Ripley is quite an amazingly complex character.
@@danip3270 enjoy!! They’re such great stories, and he’s such a relented actor!
rly rly good breakdown
Thanks!
Tom definitely has feelings and is sincerely attracted to peter. Just look at the very first time they meet. It’s almost a bit like the cliche of „love at first sight“. Look at toms reaction. Of course as a sociopath and pathological liar you will always use and exploit people, foes and loved ones alike cause he is a SOCIOPATH! (Clearly evident by the way he is killing Peter on the boat)
So I believe Tom deep inside wished it would have worked out with Peter, to whatever extent, but the reality of Toms web of lies will always catch up and demand sinister adjustments so he can stay out of trouble.
This movie since I’m a young adult was always one of my all time favorite movies. It’s just a miracle of a movie.
By the way yesterday I watched the quasi original “plain solei” from 1960 and obviously it doesn’t even come close being as good as the talented mister Ripley, but DANG Alain delon was one handsome man. Jude law and Alain delon both were just amazing looking actors in their prime.
🙌🙌🙌🙌
I think Tom liked both Dickie and Peter. But he was way more attracted to Dickie and that’s why it was easier for him to get rid of Peter. In a way it was like he did the math and decided that it was too much of a cross to bear to settle living and being with Peter when he really was more drawn to the beautiful blondie Adonis that he eliminated.
I. Can watch this film a thousand times....
Same!
No he killed Peter because he wanted to hide his lie, he couldn't kill Meridith as she was with others who saw him, but he loved him n thought he can live life with him happily. So ,it's not easy to hide truth. Basically killing Peter puts him back to square 1.
Exactly
Awesome analysis of this movie it is a classic.
Thanks!
@@raidersofthelostpodcast_ don’t mention it !
Glasses fella is totally right on the disagreement, I don’t even think it is open to interpretation. He gets away with the murders on the outside unlike first adaptation plein soleil ripley just get caught but on the inside he is not free.
At 1:09. Tom also hates Freddie because he was the other gay man vying for Dickie's attentions. There are choice moments in the movie where I got the feeling that Freddie also had a past romantic crush on Dickie. Freddie quickly susses out what Tom is up to at Dickie's beach house because Freddie, probably years ago, tried the same with Dickie. But Dickie rebuffed him and Freddie made his peace with it. Now Tom comes along, with his boyish charm and chiseled good looks, and Freddie panics that he will successfully turn Dickie "to the dark side" (finally make him gay). So Freddie viciously marks his territory every time Tom intrudes. Tom also susses this out, hence why he loathes Freddie from the get-go. Competition for your crush's attentions is never a fun situation, instigating feelings like envy and vengeance, which both Freddie and Tom felt roiling within them.
I always wondered why he didn't get rid of Meredith as opposed to Peter?
He chose to get rid of anything connecting him to his true self!
Is it a deliberate artistic choice or a screenplay fallacy?
I realize that at that level of screenwriting, it can't be a fallacy, yet, it's how I feel like.
Minghella's version of the story is by far superior to other ones. I've seen them all!
This film is so high quality it's almost impossible to explain to people who don't see it that way
EXACTLY
I think Tom really wants to have a relationship with Peter but his past caught up with him
Finally saw this movie, and it's so amazing!!! I have since watched it multiple times, and I honestly think Tom could of gotten away with things if he had kind of admitted the truth. (To all of the people he lied too pretending to be Dickie, he could of said it was like a prince and the pauper situation). Said something like "Ya we impersonated each other from time to time. He wanted to be free to do whatever, and I just made appearances for him at events. " Or another thing he could have done was play into the narration of yeah he was gay, it was a secret we where together he felt bad and took off.
Side note-Jude Law was so gorgeous in the movie!!! Matt Damon was great in it too one of his best roles!
Jude is a golden god in this movie! LOL Glad you enjoyed it!
no, Peter was not a stepping stone. Tom truly loves Peter
This and American Psycho are some of my favorite films!
🙌
01:15-02:45 Freddie... Probably, one of the best acting in the movie... So, on-point!!!❤❤❤
I'm with the left guy here, Tom uses Peter as a steppingstone. Because I think Tom is not closet gay or gay at all. He just wants to be the charismatic, fun, rich and pretty guy like Dickie and at the end that is why he kills Peter and not Meredith, to have a future with her.
Greta point
I always thought it was peculiar the scene where Tom and Peter meet. Peter almost seems suspicious of Tom when they first meet, like he knows something noone else does. Idk if anyone else feels the same but thats the vibe I got
It is something that causes me a lot of curiosity when I see the mention that psychopathic people are insane.
I'm not a psychology scholar but whenever I see someone with the personality of Tom Ripley I, on the other hand, see a lot of articulation, deterrence, a high degree of intelligence and logistics in addition to charm and these are aspects of someone's personality that differ greatly from a state of insanity. Ripley comes from a background that is not made clear, at least not in the film. In the book I don't know. Nothing is said about his life, his traumas and family dramas. Ripley is not an ordinary unscrupulous climber. He is someone who, as the title says and especially in the adjectives that appear well in the opening of the film, has a very sharp cunning. The most interesting thing is how at the end of the story he is only unmasked by two persons (Frankie and Marge) and seems to get away with it. The best scene is Ripley being confronted by Frankie in the apartment after Dickie's death. Tom's expressions are scary, I'm not sure how to explain it, I don't know if it was intentional, but Matt Damon looked like a different person. All of Ripley's poverty of soul and misery was written on his face, the most powerful revulsion and hatred at having been unmasked.
When Marge cries on the other side of the door broke me recently
Legit
You two gentlemen are brilliant. . So many great intellectuals have attempted to explain this movie but have failed. You men have explained every aspect., and every scene, with simple words. You both have a great future. I hope your work becomes recognized for your outstanding intellectual assessment of film. Explaining the complex with easy words is rare. Wonderful., Wonderful, Wonderful David O'Brien
Thank you!
There’s really people like this on earth 🌍
I forgot everything since then, but I remember this movie was good.
Rewatch it!
It's perfection, like a Hitchcock classic
Just perfect
🙌
The ending is devastating
💯
I agree with the dark shirt guy about how Tom felt about Peter.
exactly
TTMR, this movie is such a classic and one of my favorites!!!❤❤❤ I've seen it, again and again...
03:00
04:55
05:10
06:09
07:00
09:00
Curious if either of you have read the book or looked at the differences between the two? With the impending Showtime series how much inspiration do you think they should take from the film compared to the book?
Yup! Patricia Highsmith is one of my favorite authors. I would say the movie is actually very loyal to the book, but has major differences of course especially the Jazz influence on the film. And also Dickie and Marge have a different relationship in the book vs the film. But overall I think they capture Tom brilliantly with Matt. We’ll see how the show goes, don’t usually have high hopes for tv show adaptations of films
@@raidersofthelostpodcast_ I haven’t read the book but my understanding is Tom’s a lot more ruthless where as Matt’s Tom has more humanity. Apparently in the book there’s a lot more ambiguity about Tom especially when it comes to his sexuality. You also have Meredith that’s a movie exclusive character. Also Peter who was changed from an acquaintance to Tom’s lover which adds to Tom’s humanity rather than just a ruthless serial killer.
@@justschr yeah the book version is comfortable with who is is as a killer, it’s also written through his perspective, super cool read
@@raidersofthelostpodcast_ I do kind of like the way Matt’s Tom is a bit more human and has somewhat of a conscious. I like the idea of Tom being haunted by his killings which is causing a domino effect of sorts. It’s definitely something the TV series could explore eventually leading to Tom losing his humanity and becoming a full on ruthless killer. Apparently they plan on adapting more than just the one Ripley novel.
@@justschr agreed, it allows the audience to empathize with him more
Everything you guys said about this movie, the quality, the acting, is 100% accurate and I hated it with a passion.
If they want to really understand, read the book
yep, and in the book, Tom doesn't fall in love with men. that was hellyweird's take on it.
Honestly, this movie is exceptional. I could not grasp its depth when I first saw it in the theatre when it was brand new. I found it boring, annoying, and disappointing the first time I watched it. I think I wanted some kind of cliche movie about a good-looking guy going to Europe and trying to steal another good-looking guy's girlfriend (not an identity). I had a crush on Matt Damon and Jude Law back then, and this was the shallow and ridiculous plot I'd hoped to see. I was also homophobic back then and was repulsed by the relationship between Peter and Tom. I'm so glad I've grown up and learned to appreciate this brilliant movie more and more each time I watch it.
Amazing!
Tom felt for Peter. He asked Late Blanchett if she was there with anyone because he wanted to off her instead but because she’s not alone he had to go with Peter instead.
You should probably read the books too books too , mainly because you get to know Tom a lot better.
Great books
Tom didn't care about Peter, any connection they had would have been Tom copying Peter.
Tom would have soon been copying someone else, which is about the only thing he really enjoys doing
I'm surprised red shirt could misunderstand the ending this much honestly.
For 20 years now every time. Every Time I see a corduroy jacket. I say “a corduroy jacket in Italy”.
Same 🤣🤣
Great summation guys and I don't think Tom wanted to kill Peter but had to because he couldn't kill Meredith and her parents.
And of course he’s always to get away with it like he alway does 😳
Exactly correct. Also there would be much less trace of Peter than an ultra wealthy family vanishing. No one is there to account for Peter going missing either.
@@andylymbo 👌
🤔 Don't remember Meredith's parents & I've watched this movie dozens of times....🤔
@@LadyTeePrinceLover she doesn’t die 👌
The guy with the glasses has the correct interpretation.
Thanks 🤓
Just watched it and I said damn this movie is well written with a ton of stars
So good!
I have no idea how he was planning to get rid of Peter. A dead body in a cabin is certainly going to look bad for Tom especially as Meredith has seen the two of them. He could try to throw Peter overboard but if someone sees him, then he has to kill that person, and on and on...
He probably would have left before anyone noticed
@@raidersofthelostpodcast_ True, I guess easier to disappear back then.
@@blondewriter99 For sure
He'd probably stash Peter's body somewhere in that enormous suite with all those closets. Then he'd high-tail it off the boat at the next port of call. However, he boarded the boat as Tom Ripley. So upon disembarkation, he'd have to change his identity ASAP so he wouldn't get caught. Now with half of Dickie's inheritance, Tom Ripley could easily forge a new identity and live in the lap of luxury somewhere in Greece, Turkey or the Middle East.
@@Luboman411 Of imagine he wouldn’t do anything, he can disembark and the crew wouldn’t notice the body for about an hour giving him plenty of time to get pretty far away
i think he was in love with peter that’s why killing him hurt him so bad
For sure
Tom IS the duality of man.
I definitely think that Ripley got himself into a bind after his first murder and I noticed the only time he goes into kill mode is when he’s back into a corner. When he’s about to be found out and eventually be discovered as the one who killed dickie. Even if it was in self defense, he could face life imprisonment or death sentence for it so seems to him, the thing to do to cover up his tracks as long as possible
Just taking a shot at this but I think the character Tom was highly introverted and like many introverts, he found a means to live outward through his art. In his case, his sculpture was himself. I think because he became so good at it however, he needed to challenge himself. As the offer was presented to persuade Dicky to go back to America, I was not his intent for the events to unfold as they did. Where in this theory he is so highly introverted that nobody ever gets to know him, he rarely if ever got to know himself socially. I would think for a first time he was feeling in a place he wanted to belong and not only the sudden abandonment but the mockery pushed him over the edge. In his world, most things don't operate by social function but manipulation and whatever he wanted to create in front over his curtains as he was a puppet master. I believe he also had a high level a narcism as ultimately everything he did was to feed his own ego even if he ever proclaimed to be a giver. I could go deeper in theory but I'll stop here. I do however now wonder what would have come about if he never had the falling out with Dicky. I see conflict somewhere in almost every instance which leads me to wonder further, had there ever been conflict in the past, It would be interesting if a back story could ever be released.
🙌
I love this movie.
Superb movie
Hmm the modern day George Santos
I think tom isnt a sociopath, but rather just super manipulative. The true horror of the film is tom getting away with no consequences.
Tom sounds like a major league Villain Sue, lol! And this movie has a serious victim-blaming issue!
I have seen a lot of fucked up movies before but this one is at the top of em all, been wanting to watch it for years but only had the chance to do so yesterday !
🤣🤣 it’s wild
@@raidersofthelostpodcast_ It is, had my attention the whole time, reacting to Ripley's thoughts and actions like I am a 10 year old kid discovering manipulation and evil for the 1st time ever .
@@anaszakiri genius writing and performance
What about marg he was going to kill.her too Peter saved her!
Yes!!! Absolutely right
What I loved about this film is that they made the protagonist a con artist in every sense of the word. You start off thinking he's a good guy, and the film ends with you having no idea what is real and what is fake; he effectively ends up being the antagonist. I mean, is he even Tom Ripley? Is this a fake ID as well? I know the film doesn't make it clear, but that's the point, you don't know what's real and what's fake, and the film cons you all the way throughout.
🙌🙌
In the end when he kills peter. He kill it in a boat. How is gonna get away with that ? And with all the Evidence against dickie i think that it will better to kill meredith and his family. They all think he is dickie ... What do you think about the end ?? he gets away with all the killings ?
We think he does! That’s his character. He always gets away with his crimes. He probably waits in the boat and leaves and changes identities again
He killed peter instead of meredith becasue he wants to live as a somebody, dickie, not tom nobody even though that was his authentic self. He is just a social climber and he was doing everything to get there. meredith is also loaded, so ,ore supply for him.
He did ask cate Blanchetts character if she was alone but her Aunty was there and it be easier to kill 1 person than 3
What did Tom do with Dickie's body? If the Police found Dickie's body they would know he didn't kill himself, because they would see where Tom Struck him on the head with the oar.
The body sunk to the bottom of the ocean, the police looked but never found it so Tom got lucky
Great book and great movie
🙌
I just ordered the book, looking forward to reading it!
@@TarahWolf enjoy!
The modern day female "The talented Mrs Ripley"
Lies get so complicated
I think you should have touched the point how no one believed Marge is a reflection of the patriarchal society we live and how no one believes women even if all facts point to the truth they tell.
I don't think he was insane. He was ambitious and killed Dickie by accident.