I just wish GW would credit their artists in the books, and especially the sculpt designers in the assembly instructions. By name. That doesn’t cost them anything to support their artists.
I came here to say something about this, I would feel a lot better about GWs kind of high prices if I felt like the money was going to pay the designers (both game and miniatures) other artists and writers who actually build the settings instead of padding GWs bottom line; and whether or not they actually were, I think it would make people feel better about the cost if we at least knew who sculpted and painted our favourite mini.
Supporting the artists is actually the cost GW wants to avoid. Imagine the phrase "Franchina and Pirinen are joined by Blanche on their new game" , stripped of all the knwoledge of what lies behind those names. It makes the difference between "take my money!" and scrolling over. More than 3M went in Trench Crusade. For the exact reasons Dana says in the video now that money will be converted in - a lot - of time spent by the hobbysts painting, playing, discussing on discord and commenting in blogs. Those hobbysts will very less likely buy a new gw army as a 2025 project, time and money are a limited resource. GW does not want you to follow the creators you love, it wants you to associate the entire hobby with GW itself.
Never going to happen thanks to the previous lawsuits. The plaintiffs tried to use the case that they were not breaking copyright and IP law because GW didn't own the rights, their artists did. Now everything is credited to GW thanks to them.
Are they? Depends where you live. UK and EU are better off. US? Better work extra shifts. NZ and AUS? "Have you sold your firstborn yet?" But it gets interesting if you see it from the other side. Products from the US like ProAcryl or Kingdom Death are fairly expensive for people in the EU.
@@tristanellis-mascoll1171 And prices may be getting worse for US buyers if those Trump tariffs on all imports gets implemented. Because GW WILL raise their prices to cover that.
@@tristanellis-mascoll1171 Non-EU and UK based gamers are definitely worse off price-wise, but that's expected considering import costs and doesn't at all mean prices are good over here. It's still price gouging and mindless capitalistic greed.
The real problem for me is GW doesn't credit the artists who design, paint, write and illustrate their universe. I'm happy to support artists, I just spent 400 bucks on the trench crusade kickstarter, I'm not happy to support a corporation that takes advantage of its workers.
Posted it elsewhere, but they used to. Then someone who was making bootleg 40k stuff took them to court after getting a C&D, saying that the artists owned the designs, not GW. After they won the case, they stopped crediting individuals.
Highly agree on the 5$ per mini, though I think the whole concept of a "right price" is just something impossible to set in a real world scenario, for someone the 50 bucks you mentioned is just a matter of "I'll cook something at home for dinner instead of eating something out, so I can buy me some gray tiny people...", for others that amount of money is all they can spend in like 4 months including paint, brushes and what not... It's really a difficult subject to tackle...
The only time I hear about minis being too expensive is when it's in regard to Games Workshop and it has nothing to do with the $/hr. enjoyment value of their products. It has to do with things like price comparisons between other retailers' models of similar quality; of the ridiculous markup U.S. customers have to pay compared to their U.K. counterparts; the disparity in cost per model between a $60+ box of ten figures and a $40 box for a single figure; and the frequent price hikes they impose annually or when a new box (or edition) is released.
The problem isn't that Miniatures are Overpriced per se. Regardless of the exact price, if those prices are going up faster than my household income, that feels bad. Likewise, when companies take to somewhat consumer-hostile practices, such as "Please flush all your books down the toilet in less than three years" and "Starter box costing the same but containing less stuff", that's gonna add a certain level of Feel-Bad that takes away from the amount of money I'm willing to part with.
Rogue Hobbies released a video a few days ago where she took the plunge into Gunpla, and showed how much you can get for so little money. Like buying a kit that's practically the size of a 40K knight for a fraction of the cost. And those kits not only have different color sprues (no painting required), they've mastered having multi color sprues (yes, different color parts all on one sprue). And for the most part, after assembly all you might want to add is some panel lining and maybe a little weathering and you're done. But given that GW's biggest market is the US, but most players don't play at GW locations or events, all it would take is one company to make good quality, lower priced minis that are similar, but legally distinct, and GW will be in a lot of trouble.
Really depends on the country you're in - even something like an RG Gundam here in Canada isn't really what I'd call cheap - but Gundam also vary wildly in price even at the same grade depending on the kits. An RG will go for $40 - $250 CAD. HG will be like $70 - $650 CAD (this is not a typo). PGs will be like $350 - $1500 CAD. I have a friend with a large gunpla collection and he's spent more on it than I imagine most 99% of wargamers ever will on models. For context a box of 10 primaris marines here will go about $60 at an LGS. I'm not saying the gundam kits aren't a marvel of injection mold technology compared to what GW does but, for me, they aren't super cheap.
@@Weaver_Games While that is true, I'd imagine that kits for war gaming, that would be handled more often, would probably top out at the HG level at best, and many probably wouldn't even need to be that high up the complexity scale. And while HG may be expensive in Canada, in the US most are well under $100.
@@JMcMillen The thing about GUNPLA that’s truly impressive, is that they’ve actually been about to make working joints on the sprue. Highly recommend the video where Adam Savage assembled a top tier model.
@ONIMOT100 My main point was that Gunpla offers lots of amazingly engineered plastic kits for a fraction of what GW charges for. Yes, a kit for war gaming does need to be able to stand up to constant handling, but that still doesn't justify the ridiculous pricing from GW.
I like GW minis but getting back into the hobby I'm genuinely gobsmacked at some of the price inflation. An early 2000s all plastic land raider costs over a hundred dollars! There are some "new" kits over 20 years old floating around in shelves with an MSRP inexplicably still set to $40 or more. And despite rising costs the newer models tend to have fewer options, fewer poses and often contribute fewer points to an army for each dollar you spend. There's an anecdotal story about how at a major GT event a few years ago, Adeptus Custodes players did the impossible: according to one event manager at the scene, there were more Callidius Grav Tanks (an expensive Forge World resin model) on tables in the event than the company had ever sold. Imagine the hubris it must take to set multiple expensive limited release model kits as top tier tournament units in a codex but then Jack up prices so high that in one regional event there are possibly more counterfeit models present than the company has ever sold legitimate versions of. Resin models can be produced for pennies of labor and material especially with modern 3D printing technology. And yet _a single Adeptus Custodes on resin Gyrfalcon Jetbike costs $80._ At a certain point, the price has become so absurd that GW only has itself to blame when dozens of customers brazenly take counterfeit products to play major tournaments in its flagship headquarters instead of paying for the models produced there on site.
Play historics. £20 for a rulebook that doesn't change every 3 years. Perry plastics for ~£20 for 40 plastic minis ... Some miniatures are expensive but there are way cheaper alternatives out there. eg play Mordheim with a printed warband and hand made terrain - you can do that super cheap if you're smart
Value per time: excellent, affoardble hobby. I think the feeling is grounded in the target group being either young people with too little of disposable income to begin with or adults that are facing increasing costs of life - being charged premium prices by a company that makes record profits with a business model of FOMO, artificial scarcity, premium pricing, regular edition changes and model of the month hype, not paying artists and developers well and a ruthless IP control. I am not against a company selling at a profit, but if you're kinda dick about it, people will complain.
So glad someone else brought up the $/hr way to look at it. I’ve been doing that for so many different things and it makes me feel way less guilty about buying fun things for myself.
I work at a comics & collectibles shop; on one hand these types of hobby items are 'boutique' and frivolous and the companies that produce them can command a 'boutique' price if the market can bear it. It's not insulin or groceries or feminine hygiene products, nobody *needs* Warhammer or Batman or MtG. ON THE OTHER HAND, I do think that a lot of hobby prices are inhibitory to adoption and 'install base.' It's fine if you want to charge a premium price and milk your whales, just don't be surprised if new kids can't afford to buy into your ecosystem and your product dies with the previous generation.
You are making some great points. And i am pretty much on board with those. Where i get touchy is when a certain british wargaming company starts to invalidate my game pieces by outright removing them from game play or making new rules that invalidate the models i build according to previous rules they published. And before anyone says: Well but if you play with friends, it does not matter. To which i say: generally right, unless all your friends play to tournament rules of said big system. But now i joined a small wargaming club that generally plays a certain skirmish wargame produced by a spanish company. A much better experience.
If your definition of fair pricing is "whatever the market will bear", then there's not much to discuss - any price is "fair" from that perspective. However, there's never been any proof that the hand of the free market is connected to a functioning brain, so I think we can do better. Given that GW doesn't pay their creative staff well, the material cost of their products is small, and they aggressively engage in predatory marketing practices enabled by their size relative to the competition, I don't think it's likely that their prices are objectively fair or good for the hobby. The biggest harm is the exclusion and gate-keeping effect created by pricing people out of the hobby. This hobby can be a wonderful way to connect with people you might otherwise not meet, but not if they can't afford to join in.
That depends on how much production and labor does cost. Sculpting (paying an artist) isn't cheap. I'm not interested in GW minis at all. But injection molded plastic (that's what they mostly are) from them seems overpriced in comparison to what a sometimes much more complex and larger scale model kit (scale model tanks, airplanes etc.) does cost. Limited production run resin models (75 mm, busts etc.) are not cheap, but that is mostly justified (sculpting, making master models, molds, resin casting).
As someone who is mainly into the hobby for painting and not gaming, I’d say a lot of them are but a lot of historical and stuff like reaper is actually quite fair if not cheap. James Workshop is definitely too damn expensive though, I can get a box of historical minis with $ left over, 2 gunpla kits, a nice large scale model kit, or 3-5 metal earth kits for the price of a single chaplain marine
There's always 3rd party resin copies of Warhammer sculpts. It would be nice to have the artists credited with them, but since GW doesn't credit them and has a sort of monopoly on the whole setting, I don't feeling bad buying them/printing them myself. Especially because the quality is comparable, although I prefer to use a cement than superglue (and have to be careful with resin dust).
GW minis are grossly overpriced as are most miniatures.......and lets not even bring into account, the quality!!!! Having to remove mold lines or fill gaps.........yeah, I dislike paying for unfinished or defective products, let alone overhyped companies. Yes, most hobbies are overhyped and well over priced, just like all the paints and tools that go with them.
@@chrislail3824 It really is top tier. I bought some battletech cause I really was feeling like painting some hard paneled mech stuff - the prices were also cheap so I was happy. But they use ABS plastic - their scuplts come out doughy and low detail. The edges aren't always perfectly straight, etc. The quality difference is very obvious once you're up close and personal with it.
@@Weaver_GamesIt is not ABS. It is some PVC blend. But yeah, details are soft, and it is a pain to clean the sculpt. Would be great if they just did PS kits instead.
I think people tend to conflate the price of the minis themselves with the price to play the game. Im happy to pay 30 quid for a 10 man squad of GW minis, the issue would be if I had to buy 6 copies of that box to be able to play at a 2k point game for example
Today's multi-part mono pose models from GW are overpriced all the way, and they will get more expensive. And then they decide to squat them, and you have to buy more. I stick to what I have for beer and pretzel games and print what I don't have already. Just my 2 cents
This is exactly how I view my hobby purchases, whether it's a video game or a model kit. If I didn't buy and play with model kits, I'd spend that money on a video game or on books or whatever, and if I get a bunch of hours of enjoyment out of that leisure activity then I consider it money well spent.
A really important thing for me is the intention of the creator or company made it for. As much as the value of things varies from person to person, the seller ultimately chooses the price. At the end of the day, miniatures are still products. And products are usually made with a purpose in mind. Miniatures made for painting and display are usually a different price than something that's meant to be a piece in a game. GW stuff is priced like models for painting and display but are designed to be game pieces. And the price per model isn't even consistent
I get loads of hours of enjoyment out of my minis. And then they get to sit on my shelf to come own and get played with, feels pretty good value to me.
It's hard to judge for me because I don't know how much cost goes into the mini GW produces. They have to pay the designers that come up with the concept art and artwork, computer guys that design the model in whatever software they use, then they have to cut the model into pieces in such a way that no part sticks out of the horizontal plane when it's made in the injection mold. The mold itself costs multiple 10000€. Then there's storage, logistics and so on. With all that in mind idk what a fair price would be. Any company that produces minis will obviously have to sell hundreds/thousands of them before breaking even. What I do agree is that GW models - at least things like normal heroes on foot for example - *feel* overcosted. A normal Space Marine character is what 30€+ these days? That seems too much!
They are very overpriced, compare them to Gunpla, which still need all the same things, but also have the added cost of engineering and more advanced injection molding techniques.
@@henryfleischer404 Do you have a source that shows that their injection molding is more advanced than GW's? What makes it more advanced? I agree that GW minis are probably very overpriced and we are paying a lot for the label (just like Apple etc). It would be interesting to know what a fair and realistic price would actually be.
That's why I never really understood the people that just throw money at the hobby, dislike painting, and play flavor of the month. Clearly you could find a more balanced game for a fraction of the price that doesn't include the painting you despise.
Dollar per hour is a metric I've been using for almost 20 years now, and it doesn't steer me wrong, especially with miniatures where I get so much out of painting and assembling, and then having a game to play with them after is just gravy.
As somebody who collects both of the games listed- GW is on-par with both Infinity and Malifaux. The difference is in game size, but collecting a faction in Infinity will definitely cost you about the same as a 40k army/collection
I think your analysis is overall very good. I agree that entertainment-hours are a good metric. And, style matters; if for example GW's sculpts set ones heart aflutter, and other companies' don't... But still, GW's prices leave an ashen taste in my mouth. Without accusing any other manufacturer of being overpriced I can say that GW is, because... A lot of comparable plastic mini sets from their competitors are way cheaper (Oathmark/Frostgrave, Mantic, Fireforge Games, Victrix, Gripping Beast), and the economies of scale are on GW's side! (And that's without bringing up Bandai or Tamiya.) But... Well, under your analysis, I'd say that most minis that aren't polystyrene are way overcosted. I mean, they are, in terms of value to the consumer, right? I can forgive metal and resin and PVC minis if I want (like all the Privateer Press stuff!), and say "minis of that sort Just Cost More", or I can dodge and say "the game uses fewer models", but... It makes me a hypocrite, doesn't it? A metal mini isn't "better", but I acknowledge that they always cost more and just shrug and accept it, because if it's only available in metal... But is that so different than shrugging and accepting it when a plastic mini costs more for no reason? Being sympathetic to production-costs doesn't ACTUALLY make the product more-functional for me. (And you're right that Lego tends to be a much more-expensive hobby than mini-painting, but it doesn't have to be! Average AFOL behavior of buying expensive sets to build once, versus efficient Lego hobby of having sorted parts and building and rebuilding with them.)
I actually think you’re right. I subconsciously have felt this way about this hobby for awhile. Thank you for breaking it down. Also I really enjoyed the super close up painting you had in the back drop while you were doing this vid. Have learned allot from your skill. Keep up the great vids. More please !
Are miniatures prices high? I would say mostly yes. But GW prices have been ridiculous since ever, and nowadays with the pressure of the executives and trimestral payoffs, it's just insane. They are overpriced, not because they are not very well designed, and the kits are awesome. All of that is true. But GW games (the big ones) need HUNDREDS of your local currency to get to a playable army. HUNDREDS. And as with the rest of the GW logic, is absolutely by design. You can purchase a whole army (or 95% of it) for some games for 100 of your currency. For me personally, if I cannot make an almost fully playable to the standart point value for hundredish bucks, the miniatures are expensive. Even just for painting, some GW solo figures (And don't make me start with the big ones) are absolutely overpriced. But people buy them so that is the price they have. So I don't buy them, nor I play GW games.
And the "1 dollar / hour" mental gymnastics I hate. Quality always over quantity. Most Indie games would not be worth it by that metric, and almost all AAA-open-world-collectathon-grind-fest would be the best games ever. Heck, LoL and the other are the best "Buck per hour" and they are not that great....
For me it's not the cost of the model it's self. Its the change in cost over time. I took a 10 year break from table tops from 2013-2023. When I came back to the ttwg hobby model kits from GW were now twice what I had paid for them a decade early. The thing is, in some cases they were the same model kits and boxes that I had paid $40 10 years ago were inexplicably double that now. Considering other companies offer reasonable and well sculpted models why is GW so far out of whack? I am fine with things like a rise in the cost of plastics. That box that was once 40 should be 50 or 60 now. But 80? 50 for a single character model? GW seems to find the reasonable price for models and adds a $20 we know your gonna buy this anyway tax on top of it. Could be why their stock went up 12% last quarter. That's a huge jump that major economic sectors can only dream about.
Of these archetypes, I'm primarily a kitbasher. There are very few things that I have bought and put together without at least some minor alterations. I tend to buy things because they remind me of something else, which I can then combine with another thing to tweak it to resemble it even more. When I buy miniatures I prefer boxes that contain sprues with lots of modular bits, because the amount of options available is enjoyable for me. Back when I first started the hobby, I could get a box with a regiment for Warhammer at a price of about 25€. This usually came with pieces to make 20 complete miniatures, plus extra limbs and heads that could be used with green stuff and some extra work to make a further amount of complete ones. That I felt to be a pretty good monetary value for what I got.
In my country, a cheap miniature is around USD2.00. Up to USD4.00 I consider it to be average price, and more than that I'll say it's expensive. Most brands don't work here, so we have to import. This means GW, Atomic Mass, Corvus Belli... all those big brands are of the park... on the category of "gee ya rich". 3d prints and locals are cheap enough though. Proxies ftw
Thanks Dana for the positive tone, and bringing some perspective that sometimes gets lost. "How much is a miniature worth?" - whatever I'm (or anyone) is willing to pay for a hobby that can be enriching, creative, lets us bond with friends and community, take a mental break from the "real" world, etc. Everyone's situation is different as is the choice we make when we spend our discretionary hobby dollars. I personally think hardcore golfers are insane for the $s they spend on their obsession errrrr hobby, but for a lot of them it's as worth it to them as is me spending $s on plastic crack for my pile of potential. People rail on about GW prices but they are a business and as long as the market will bear their pricing, they'll continue to charge what they do.
I have my own definition of prices. I call it the MPM Coefficient - money per movie coefficient. It's like 20 Euro for a 2 h movie is an acceptable price. Most of our hobby expenses are way under that sum. Sometimes I think 10 Euro per hour is okay. Other times it's 1 Euro per hour or less. I owned a small sports car for sone years. Last weekend I got invited to a shooting range. I buy ootics for birding. Miniature painting is not an expensive hobby - especially if your immune like me to FOMO.
I think it really depends on the quality of the miniature. If the miniature is low poly and not very detailed, it shouldn't cost more than $2USD. If it has more detail, meaning the artist spent a lot of time on it, then the cost could be higher and still reasonable. I agree with you when you say intention has a big influence on our cost expectations. I'm a painter (not a gamer), so I am willing to pay a little more for some beautifully sculpted minis. But 3D files, now that's a different story... most average packs of minis average at $1USD a mini, and that's a great deal. Thanks for sharing, Dana!
A friend of mine has told me that I get the cost per hour part of collecting miniatures backwards; and I suspect many other tabletop gamers do this as well. He pointed out that I will spend a disproportionate amount of money and time on a single 'boss monster', which I will only use once. This is partly true. I tend to save my best painted coolest minis for the climactic battle at the end of a series of scenarios. Although I will eventually reuse them, they don't come out very often. And I have gone to great lengths to get some of these figures, resorting to buying a complete set of minis, for just the right one. I tend to see the more expensive figures as a larger input into the aggregate cost of playing the game. And the extra time to paint them is still hobby time well spent
Thanks Dana. For me, I'm much more likely to value something I am buying because I want to paint it, than buying to fill out an army. In general, models are good value, as you say, for hours spent using them. I tend to think GW models are about 30% too expensive, still the thing that really turns me off a GW model price wise is the sneaky price increases which they are always, always, making (and often on models that are out of stock, so you can't even buy it before the price increase). When I look at other model companies, their models are usually not good enough, but when they are they cost of shipping tends to make them similar in price to a GW model - and if I go the GW store and buy stuff, I can meet people and make friends, which is worth money. Plus, our local GW is really good for painting and playing in store, which again, is worth money.
From where I'm standing, I basically only paint GW models because those are the painting competitions I attend and the games I (infrequently) play. But a single kill team can take me a really long time to paint (1-2 months) which is longer than what an equivilently priced video game would give me. (Astro Bot, my most recently purchased game, took me about 2 ish weeks).
I think most people will agree it is GW models that are overpriced, specifically the 40K stuff (not sure about AoS). I mainly collect 3 games as a painter with intent to play - Necromunda, Infinity and Carnevale. Necromunda kits tend to be a bit better value than 40K kits I would say and we consistently get new interesting Resin figures (not that I buy many of these). Infinity is still a small game compared to 40K and the minis are metal but similar to Necromunda you are getting individual sculpts rather than squads of slightly different versions of the same model. Prices are comparable to GW. Carnevale is from a small company, TTCombat, and all the figures are resin a box of 5 different sculpts costs £30 (I'm in the UK) and new additions to the gangs are constantly being released (vampires, priests, mad scientists and the cult of Dagon amongst them). How do I rate them value wise considering my interests in the hobby -Carnevale best and Necromunda currently worst as if I want more Escher all I can do is buy the same 2 boxes I have or some of the old resin kits.
Even GW has some boxes with great prices. I bought the Agents of the Imperium Boarding patrol for ~105€. It was 31 models (20 voidsmen, 9 starstriders + 1 dog and 1 assassin), so around 3,4 € per model. And I've used those models to play Kill Team, Rogue Trader RPG and even the Aliens RPG. I buy mainly to paint, so I think more about ''fun per dollar'', rather than ''points per dollar'', which is where things start to get funky with GW.
Being mostly a painter, I think $5 is decent for a mini! I’m not at all mad at a $5 4-pack from Wizkids either, just depends on what I think will be fun in my collection. And I’m happy to pay more for a cooler piece here and there! And on the sidenote, I totally think “rules” should be free, nice books and other materials obviously have to cost money. But “rules” can and should be open, shared, and taught, I mean if ye want a fun, welcoming gaming group and community anyways!
Good video and I have often (also in my role as a gameshop salesperson) engaged in the same kind of analysis for roleplaying or board games, comparing them to a trip to the movies which only lasts for one night whereas other stuff will get repeated use. However you only cover the "how much is it worth to you" angle and I think it can also be vital to consider how much it cost to make the product. Because if the price seems way higher than the cost to make it, we as consumers will get angry and resentful even if we buy it. A lot of Warhammer people are like this. They feel like they have no other option because "it's the game everyone else is playing" or "they still make the best minis" but they still think that GW is gouging them with inflated prices creating a very negative atmosphere.
I started Warhammer back in 1996 and have seen the prices go crazy since then. Back then you could get 20 space marines for $25, now you get one for $40 or more. I understand material prices go up but still when a can of primer costs $20 and 10 models cost you at least $55 it is nuts.
Budgeting and patience are good skills to develop. I do feel like my friends that get upset at model prices tend to A: only play games workshop games and B: try to buy models/units that cost about 500usd all at once in a small amout of time. Me and my gf dont have a lot fo money so we both spend about 40 bucks a month on minaitures/paints. I forgot how much one can accomplish with patience and savings hehe. Thabks for believing in us dana. We always get stoned and watch your videos together.
Considering forex to my country, I consider USD3.50 a good amount of money to 1 hour of fun. I think that's a good rule of thumb. I never added up how much I spent on miniatures. You know... for sakes of... you know... why would I want to know? hahaha help me 😅
Measuring value as cost per hour is a great way to look at the hobby. It's also how I justify paying GW prices. I will spend a lot more time on a GW model than, say, WizKids. In the end, the cost per hour is probably pretty close. Of course, it also helps that I only buy a couple of GW sets per year. I'm not exactly blowing the bank on them.
I enjoy assembly and painting too a point , but it's a means to an end and ultimately I want to play a game. That stuff just gets in the way. Therefore, I don't count pre-game prep as "entertainment value." It's more akin to assembling IKEA furniture for me.
As somebody into collecting both tabletop minis and Gunpla, bringing up Gunpla kits down here in the comments is asinine to this discussion. Are they more advanced? Yeah. Are they built to handle wargaming with the intention that you paint them up to your liking? Not really.
I feel like a lot of individual model and unit kits are genuinely overpriced and done so with the intent of driving customers towards buying "value" sets like Christmas boxes or army sets. Yeah you didn't really NEED to buy a full blown army box that was more costly than just buying the box of troops that you initially wanted but somehow it's less expensive than buying that single box because you're getting so much more.
Get a 3d printer, learn 3d modeling, join a community, keep that community encouraging and positive and inclusive, share your works, let everyone's prints and games be free.
Wondering... what would people pay for a hand-sculpted custom polymer clay mini? I make some for friends and myself, but wouldn't know where to begin if I were to market them. Opinions?
You argued the issues well. We're obviously not going back to 30 Space Marines for £10 (I was there, as Elrond said). I've always been more modeller than gamer and looking at the Mark VI armour the pricing in terms of mass of plastic doesn't seem so far from an aircraft model kit.
I'd agree with this argument if some of that added value of a model that comes from it's rules was being paid in royalties to the people who write the rules. But it doesn't. So instead this has further convinced me that the price of these models is a scam, except now I also think the people who write the games are being scammed by these companies as well as the consumers who by them.
It's difficult to say that GW's minis are worth what they charge, when other miniatures companies who produce comparable products (in the broad strokes) give you double or more the models for half the price. How much should a squad of 10 soldiers with guns cost? That's subjective. But GW expects you to fork over $65+ for 10, while its competitors will give you a box of 24-30 of them for $35. (Some of them, like Wargames Atlantic, even come with all or most of the special weapons options a Guardsmen squad requires, and specialty bits sellers exist to plug holes in other manufacturers' kits). Whether GW's products are uniquely high quality enough to justify their prices is also subjective. I mean, Wargames Atlantic has at least one Guard-alike kit (the Raumjagers) sculpted by Bob Naismith, a man with a proven "Warhammer-quality" track record. (And, not to knock Mr Naismith, but I personally think the Raumjager kit is the _weakest_ in the "Death Fields" range). More importantly, there are _levels_ of greater expense to consider. A big centerpiece dragon from GW might cost well over $100. Whereas Archon Studios will sell you a whole range of very nice, big centerpiece dragons (in hard plastic)...for under $40. And Archon Studios doesn't expect a single customer to buy more than one of each sculpt any more than GW expects it of their big centerpiece models. This underscores a central theme: whatever is reasonable to charge for miniatures, GW exceeds that by a wide margin. Not coincidentally, this is why their _profit margins_ are something like 30-40%. In an economy where, in most industries, companies with margins after expenses of 10% are considered Very Successful. Most people don't have a problem with miniatures prices in general. They have a problem with prices from Games Workshop _specifically._ Because Games Workshop's products are so much higher than their closest competitors, which goes directly to enriching their shareholders. It's not need, it's GREED.
I personally think a single small mini should be about 5 unless it's in a squad. A medium single mini 7 and 10 for a large mini. A squad should be no more than a 1$ per mini, and should be sold with maximum squad size. Context for me as a hobbieist I don't enjoy painting but love everything else
First of all, I only paint miniatures, I do not play much, and only with friends, so I do not care about the meta or the "hot new stuff". Pre-pandemic I tried to stay around 1-1.5€ at miniature, now I updated to 2-2.5€ for GW. Is it impossible? Almost, but between, ebay, vinted, thrift stores, friends and job lots I got around 300 miniatures for less than 400€ in the last 5 years. Also I sell what I do not paint, so I have technically spent much less or gain a little bit of pocket money. How much a miniature should cost, in my opinion? No more than 1€ each. Better half the price.
I spend enough money on my cardboard crack that I don’t have a leg to stand on to criticize the price but I have enough spite towards Games Workshop that I’m gonna criticize them anyway. I haven’t bought minis in years since I barely keep up painting all the minis I modeled and printed myself
I fully agree with this, 2 hours at the cinema costs more than a lot of mini kits whereas I can spend 10s of hours just on building aqnd painting. Already a cheap per hour hobby prior to playing with them That being said RPGs are even cheaper by this metric because you need one or two books between 4-5 people and you can get 100s of hours out of them
I always say that 40k is an expensive game but it's not really that expensive as a hobby. I personally really like building and painting to what I deem a high level. I'll probably spend 10 - 12 hours on a mini. So for a box of 10 let's say 100 hours - so even if I could hobby 25 hours a week it would still take me a month to get through a box. If instead of hoarding plastic like a dragon people just bought a new kit after they were done their previous kit I bet they would find things far more affordable. Obviously if you're trying to be a competitive tournament player then you're looking at spending a mad amount of money to try to stay on top of the meta. Also, as to the raw cost - I won't pretend GW is cheap. I also won't say the BS they do with their codices didn't bother me back when I played - but I also don't find that here in Canada their prices are that out of line with the competition. Most LGS here have 20% off the GW list price. Some even do 30% off but are prohibited from listing the prices online. I was recently looking at Malifaux and they were like $60 - 70 CAD for a box of 4 minis - and a box of intercessors here is about $60 CAD and you get 10 of them so... seems like it's mostly in line with most wargaming prices - albeit perhaps at the top end?
I don’t play any war games, but I do love building models of all kinds, and RC cars. With that, when you compare the price of GW kits to kits like Tamiya, I think GW is WAY overpriced. For the price of some of their bigger vehicles, I can build a fully functional RC car. I do love GW models, and I’ve bought several. But the high price did take away a little bit of the enjoyment I got out of building them.
Excellent video! Don’t forget the “value of your imagination and anticipation of thinking about and finally getting the expected miniatures! Are miniatures too expensive? Answer- that depends …..
I have to disagree. Lore, Rules, your time spent with a miniature - all these things are arbitrary and have nothing to do with the miniature's value or its production cost. A miniature does not contain 8" movement inside, and the fact that it depicts a certain character has nothing to do with its quality! The price and value of a product should be judged by its objective characteristics: the quality of sculpt and material, the cost of production etc. Unfortunately, the availability/rarity of an item do affect its cost, but even then there are some reasonable price limits, and we're not talking about obsolete and vintage models right now anyway.
Just to clarify: obviously, the market plays its role in how the prices are, and we often judge the price of a product by comparing it to similar products. But that is far more reasonable than judging it by some purely subjective metric that has nothing to do with the production or other things that actually affect the prices.
I'm fine with the price of GW miniatures. The market has shows time and again that they have priced them correctly as people keep buying them and their profit grows every year. If people are priced out of GW, there are plenty of other alternatives out there. Not every product is for everybody. GW is the Kleenex/Bandaid of the miniature wargames industry. With the brand recognition comes the ability to set their prices for the market in a way that reflects their brand. There are plenty of cars that are made on the exact same line and with similar parts as another, but they charge a much higher price because of the brand.
Not sure to be honest. I think there is far more that goes into each and every model than people realise, and all companies releasing models (not just GW) are in the business of making money. Recently, crit role models failed to hit the numbers required to be released in a financially viable way, and so they ave been cancelled. Ultimately, the consumer is the one that sets the price that they think is "ok". For every model purchased, the company (no matter the size) begins to ask, can we charge more. And on and on it goes. Demand drives the market. GW cops a flogging here, but frankly the tallest poppy is *always* the first to be targeted. They produce amazing models, and have an insanely large catalogue.
Value is on the eye of the beholder. Are GW models worth the price? Yes, I personally believe the models are worth it. Sometimes. 40k or AoS requiring so many models is not worth it. Kill team, Necromunda, Mordheim, Underworld, Warcry, and the like feel way more valuable because the amount needed is much lower. Needing to spend $1000+ for necessary models to play a game drives their value down. But spending $50-60 on the same models and I can paint, and play them makes them well worth the cost
They cost too much for the consumer they should be vastly less, they cost next to nothing to produce for the manufacturer but yet we pay 80$ for like 10 models which is ludicrous it should cost no more than 20$ per small infantry kit and maybe 50-100$ for larger amounts or for larger models
Im always on the line between GW minis being "too expensive" and "fair". This is how I see it: Why its unfair: > For the amount of plastic/models, you get less and less with new iterations. > The most popular factions also get some of the worst value kits across the game (less models, higher priced, and monopose) > Newer model kits are static, hard to kitbash, or just straight up push to fix resold at a premium price > The options for "value" play is limited or nonexistent. IMHO Age of Sigmar's Combat Patrol equivalent is some of the best value, has more minis on average, and include a comprehensive game mode. All for a base price that is LESS than combat patrol boxes, not including the extra third-party discount from local hobby stores. > Some countries have BS markup compared to expected exchange rates between currencies. Why its Fair: > If you diverge from certain factions, there are armies that have so much extra value from the extra bits you get, and the ability to kitbash for added value (GSC and Orks) is amazing. > The majority of kits being multipose is a huge seller for me. Unless I'm getting a model at a huge discount, why would I pay for a model kit that is always the same 3 poses? A lot of model manufacturers are mono pose, and that is my biggest pet peeve. > The kits are well made and sculpted really nicely. While some might come off as "uninspired", it's a long way off from the 90's as far as I am concerned. > Many manufacturers' models just "don't look right." This might be my own bias, but I feel a lot of plastic models look goofy proportion-wise. I've only really liked GW, Warlord games, Perry Brothers, and Atomic Mass games. Beyond that, a lot of manufacturers just seem to miss the mark on quality, and sometimes they charge premium prices on top of that. > GW makes their models in UK, not China. Same reason I buy Gundam kits. They are designed and manufactured in Japan, not China. I can't stress the importance of localized industries. If it brings jobs and money back into the country, then I'm for it.
But if you look at Wargames Atlantic or Firelock or North Star, you get multipart variable pose minitures at a much lower price point than GW. If you look at Bandai you get insane comparisons. Average 6-8 inch high Real Grade is about the same price as a GW 30mm hero. Mere HG kits are about half that.
@@Octarinewolf I won't disagree with you on either of those points. I would add Wargames Atlantic is kind of "everywhere" with their kits. I can't see myself buying alot of their stuff unless Im already starting an army for another game system, and 1 or more of their kits might be good proxies/kitbash fodder. But for the value they are good (even if some of their models are a bit funny proportions wise). Gundam and other Bandai kits are nice, but they don't really have a place for alot of wargames. Though, if Bandai wanted to get into small-scale wargaming and make small multipart kits, I would be VERY interested to see how they approach it. But love their models; just wish I could do something with them, lol.
THe three companies I mention sho it is possible to make a profit on smaller production runs thena GW using the same technologies. Which makes them a good comparator for GW's prices. Bandai have produced three different wargames rulesets I know of for Gundam (One was an RPG/Wargames ruleset based on Mekton). Which might be a problem is they were all in Japanese and haven't been translated and two were for ranges of prepained mostly vinyl 1/300 and 1/400 scale models. They also had Hex and small scale mecha figure games before Battletech (The two Fang of the Sun Dougram games inspired Battletech and the plastic kits in the original Battle Droids were the Dougram and Roundfacer 1/300 kits) You are suggesting that GW's IP justifies the price, when Gundam is every bit as much an IP about selling plastic model kits.and manages cheaper better quality (On a technical basis) boxes.
@@Octarinewolf I think despite the markup, there is still a fair value for alot of the model kits currently sold by GW. Though that list is unfortunately dwindling as GW makes changes to their lineup (mainly Space Marines, despite being the figure head, they are some of the worst value for the price). I do think for the price you pay, you get quality sculpts with high detail that are not a pain to build. After searching I do see Atlantic Games is now produced in the USA. So I don't think GW has much ground to say they can't keep their prices down. But I also wouldn't say your a dummy for buying GW models (at least some of them) as alot of similar miniature makers are charging 50-60 a box. I'm always keeping an eye out for model manufacturers that have great looking models that are cost effective. My problem is that I haven't found many manufacturers that seem inspired beyond Warhammer, or bolt action's miniatures (but I'm a historical nerd, so I might be biased there). Alot of Syfy miniatures feels cheap or weird. I wish I could explain better, but a lot of manufacturers models feel off. I want to say it's because GW has had decades to perfect their styles (think about how weird the fantasy and rogue trader stuff is. Interesting but kinda funky tbh).
Are some brands expensive? Yes. Has that priced people out of certain games? For sure. Are other games significantly better value for money? Absolutely! Are they overpriced? Companies continuing to be in business suggests not. What's a miniature worth? I pay for it twice, once with money and again with time, so the value judgement here is spotty :)
hmmm, unpainted figures $7.50 to $10 for a standard size (32 mm) figure (Canadian $$). Painted to a tabletop standard, $25 or more. For larger figures, more detailed etc, anywhere from 15$ up to $60, unpainted. Painted would add to that of course. Those numbers assume Good quality scuplts with nice detail etc. All dollar amounts Canadian. Interesting video, keep up the good work.
Is Games Workshop more expensive? I think it depends where in the world you live. WherexI am, Infinity, Marvel and Malifaux are as expensive or more expensive on a model by model basis, but you need fewer of them for a game. Historicals and Mantic are cheaper, but smaller and have fewer options. I think it depends a lot on what you want. I don't think Games Workshop are cheap, but I don't buy into a view that everything else is fine and they are over priced.
GW in particular is grossly over priced, I live in NZ, and their products can be up to 50% more expensive than their UK RRP. This was originally highlighted when forgeworld changed to regional pricing. An australian youtuber compared the warlord titan on GBP vs AUD, and showed that it was going to cost $1000 AUD more, and that was before shipping.
i still think this is a cheap hobby, special how many hours i spend on it. is gw Expensive yes, but i don't care, I'm proud that its made in the uk its paying UK salaries and i can always get a game of Warhammer where ever i go, unlike other game systems
Only some are such as GW. Example one ton of the type of plastic they use is at anytime 400-600 dollars per ton that is nothing... plastic tech is cheaper now than it was 20 years ago but it cost more (when adjusted for inflation today) the part that costs the most by far are the boxes its not even close paper and cardboard boxes are many more times more expensive.
Personally I think Warhammer should priced about half of what they are now. Seems more legit and fairly priced. Much to my dismay I will continue to pay the existing price because I'm a sucker.
I just wish GW would credit their artists in the books, and especially the sculpt designers in the assembly instructions. By name.
That doesn’t cost them anything to support their artists.
look on warhammer +, they barely credit people on the animations. insane.
I came here to say something about this, I would feel a lot better about GWs kind of high prices if I felt like the money was going to pay the designers (both game and miniatures) other artists and writers who actually build the settings instead of padding GWs bottom line; and whether or not they actually were, I think it would make people feel better about the cost if we at least knew who sculpted and painted our favourite mini.
Supporting the artists is actually the cost GW wants to avoid. Imagine the phrase "Franchina and Pirinen are joined by Blanche on their new game" , stripped of all the knwoledge of what lies behind those names. It makes the difference between "take my money!" and scrolling over. More than 3M went in Trench Crusade. For the exact reasons Dana says in the video now that money will be converted in - a lot - of time spent by the hobbysts painting, playing, discussing on discord and commenting in blogs. Those hobbysts will very less likely buy a new gw army as a 2025 project, time and money are a limited resource. GW does not want you to follow the creators you love, it wants you to associate the entire hobby with GW itself.
Never going to happen thanks to the previous lawsuits. The plaintiffs tried to use the case that they were not breaking copyright and IP law because GW didn't own the rights, their artists did. Now everything is credited to GW thanks to them.
are miniatures overpriced? not overall. are GW minis overpriced? yes. definitely yes.
Are they?
Depends where you live.
UK and EU are better off.
US? Better work extra shifts.
NZ and AUS? "Have you sold your firstborn yet?"
But it gets interesting if you see it from the other side.
Products from the US like ProAcryl or Kingdom Death are fairly expensive for people in the EU.
@@tristanellis-mascoll1171 And prices may be getting worse for US buyers if those Trump tariffs on all imports gets implemented. Because GW WILL raise their prices to cover that.
@@tristanellis-mascoll1171 Non-EU and UK based gamers are definitely worse off price-wise, but that's expected considering import costs and doesn't at all mean prices are good over here. It's still price gouging and mindless capitalistic greed.
The real problem for me is GW doesn't credit the artists who design, paint, write and illustrate their universe. I'm happy to support artists, I just spent 400 bucks on the trench crusade kickstarter, I'm not happy to support a corporation that takes advantage of its workers.
Even video games list all of the artists who work on a game. Why not GW?
Posted it elsewhere, but they used to. Then someone who was making bootleg 40k stuff took them to court after getting a C&D, saying that the artists owned the designs, not GW. After they won the case, they stopped crediting individuals.
your collection is coming along quite nicely!
hell yes thank you for noticing Brent!
Highly agree on the 5$ per mini, though I think the whole concept of a "right price" is just something impossible to set in a real world scenario, for someone the 50 bucks you mentioned is just a matter of "I'll cook something at home for dinner instead of eating something out, so I can buy me some gray tiny people...", for others that amount of money is all they can spend in like 4 months including paint, brushes and what not... It's really a difficult subject to tackle...
Plenty of miniatures are pretty fairly priced!
Not the case for Warhammer at least for the last decade, of course, but still plenty!
As long as most GW releases are instantly sold out, prices aren't going down, only up.
The only time I hear about minis being too expensive is when it's in regard to Games Workshop and it has nothing to do with the $/hr. enjoyment value of their products. It has to do with things like price comparisons between other retailers' models of similar quality; of the ridiculous markup U.S. customers have to pay compared to their U.K. counterparts; the disparity in cost per model between a $60+ box of ten figures and a $40 box for a single figure; and the frequent price hikes they impose annually or when a new box (or edition) is released.
^This. This is a uniquely Games Workshop problem, because only Games Workshop goes to such lengths to price gouge their customers.
The problem isn't that Miniatures are Overpriced per se. Regardless of the exact price, if those prices are going up faster than my household income, that feels bad. Likewise, when companies take to somewhat consumer-hostile practices, such as "Please flush all your books down the toilet in less than three years" and "Starter box costing the same but containing less stuff", that's gonna add a certain level of Feel-Bad that takes away from the amount of money I'm willing to part with.
Rogue Hobbies released a video a few days ago where she took the plunge into Gunpla, and showed how much you can get for so little money. Like buying a kit that's practically the size of a 40K knight for a fraction of the cost.
And those kits not only have different color sprues (no painting required), they've mastered having multi color sprues (yes, different color parts all on one sprue). And for the most part, after assembly all you might want to add is some panel lining and maybe a little weathering and you're done.
But given that GW's biggest market is the US, but most players don't play at GW locations or events, all it would take is one company to make good quality, lower priced minis that are similar, but legally distinct, and GW will be in a lot of trouble.
Really depends on the country you're in - even something like an RG Gundam here in Canada isn't really what I'd call cheap - but Gundam also vary wildly in price even at the same grade depending on the kits. An RG will go for $40 - $250 CAD. HG will be like $70 - $650 CAD (this is not a typo). PGs will be like $350 - $1500 CAD. I have a friend with a large gunpla collection and he's spent more on it than I imagine most 99% of wargamers ever will on models. For context a box of 10 primaris marines here will go about $60 at an LGS. I'm not saying the gundam kits aren't a marvel of injection mold technology compared to what GW does but, for me, they aren't super cheap.
@@Weaver_Games While that is true, I'd imagine that kits for war gaming, that would be handled more often, would probably top out at the HG level at best, and many probably wouldn't even need to be that high up the complexity scale. And while HG may be expensive in Canada, in the US most are well under $100.
@@JMcMillen The thing about GUNPLA that’s truly impressive, is that they’ve actually been about to make working joints on the sprue. Highly recommend the video where Adam Savage assembled a top tier model.
Those kits aren't build to handle wargaming tho
@ONIMOT100 My main point was that Gunpla offers lots of amazingly engineered plastic kits for a fraction of what GW charges for. Yes, a kit for war gaming does need to be able to stand up to constant handling, but that still doesn't justify the ridiculous pricing from GW.
I like GW minis but getting back into the hobby I'm genuinely gobsmacked at some of the price inflation. An early 2000s all plastic land raider costs over a hundred dollars! There are some "new" kits over 20 years old floating around in shelves with an MSRP inexplicably still set to $40 or more. And despite rising costs the newer models tend to have fewer options, fewer poses and often contribute fewer points to an army for each dollar you spend.
There's an anecdotal story about how at a major GT event a few years ago, Adeptus Custodes players did the impossible: according to one event manager at the scene, there were more Callidius Grav Tanks (an expensive Forge World resin model) on tables in the event than the company had ever sold.
Imagine the hubris it must take to set multiple expensive limited release model kits as top tier tournament units in a codex but then Jack up prices so high that in one regional event there are possibly more counterfeit models present than the company has ever sold legitimate versions of. Resin models can be produced for pennies of labor and material especially with modern 3D printing technology. And yet _a single Adeptus Custodes on resin Gyrfalcon Jetbike costs $80._
At a certain point, the price has become so absurd that GW only has itself to blame when dozens of customers brazenly take counterfeit products to play major tournaments in its flagship headquarters instead of paying for the models produced there on site.
Play historics. £20 for a rulebook that doesn't change every 3 years. Perry plastics for ~£20 for 40 plastic minis ... Some miniatures are expensive but there are way cheaper alternatives out there. eg play Mordheim with a printed warband and hand made terrain - you can do that super cheap if you're smart
And no bean counter decides your French Imperial Guard is suddenly obsolete in the latest codex.
Use historics to play Turnip28.
Value per time: excellent, affoardble hobby.
I think the feeling is grounded in the target group being either young people with too little of disposable income to begin with or adults that are facing increasing costs of life - being charged premium prices by a company that makes record profits with a business model of FOMO, artificial scarcity, premium pricing, regular edition changes and model of the month hype, not paying artists and developers well and a ruthless IP control.
I am not against a company selling at a profit, but if you're kinda dick about it, people will complain.
"are miniatures are too expensive?" Yes.
So glad someone else brought up the $/hr way to look at it. I’ve been doing that for so many different things and it makes me feel way less guilty about buying fun things for myself.
I work at a comics & collectibles shop; on one hand these types of hobby items are 'boutique' and frivolous and the companies that produce them can command a 'boutique' price if the market can bear it. It's not insulin or groceries or feminine hygiene products, nobody *needs* Warhammer or Batman or MtG.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I do think that a lot of hobby prices are inhibitory to adoption and 'install base.' It's fine if you want to charge a premium price and milk your whales, just don't be surprised if new kids can't afford to buy into your ecosystem and your product dies with the previous generation.
You are making some great points. And i am pretty much on board with those. Where i get touchy is when a certain british wargaming company starts to invalidate my game pieces by outright removing them from game play or making new rules that invalidate the models i build according to previous rules they published.
And before anyone says: Well but if you play with friends, it does not matter. To which i say: generally right, unless all your friends play to tournament rules of said big system.
But now i joined a small wargaming club that generally plays a certain skirmish wargame produced by a spanish company. A much better experience.
If your definition of fair pricing is "whatever the market will bear", then there's not much to discuss - any price is "fair" from that perspective. However, there's never been any proof that the hand of the free market is connected to a functioning brain, so I think we can do better.
Given that GW doesn't pay their creative staff well, the material cost of their products is small, and they aggressively engage in predatory marketing practices enabled by their size relative to the competition, I don't think it's likely that their prices are objectively fair or good for the hobby.
The biggest harm is the exclusion and gate-keeping effect created by pricing people out of the hobby. This hobby can be a wonderful way to connect with people you might otherwise not meet, but not if they can't afford to join in.
That depends on how much production and labor does cost. Sculpting (paying an artist) isn't cheap. I'm not interested in GW minis at all. But injection molded plastic (that's what they mostly are) from them seems overpriced in comparison to what a sometimes much more complex and larger scale model kit (scale model tanks, airplanes etc.) does cost. Limited production run resin models (75 mm, busts etc.) are not cheap, but that is mostly justified (sculpting, making master models, molds, resin casting).
As someone who is mainly into the hobby for painting and not gaming, I’d say a lot of them are but a lot of historical and stuff like reaper is actually quite fair if not cheap.
James Workshop is definitely too damn expensive though, I can get a box of historical minis with $ left over, 2 gunpla kits, a nice large scale model kit, or 3-5 metal earth kits for the price of a single chaplain marine
There's always 3rd party resin copies of Warhammer sculpts. It would be nice to have the artists credited with them, but since GW doesn't credit them and has a sort of monopoly on the whole setting, I don't feeling bad buying them/printing them myself. Especially because the quality is comparable, although I prefer to use a cement than superglue (and have to be careful with resin dust).
GW minis are grossly overpriced as are most miniatures.......and lets not even bring into account, the quality!!!!
Having to remove mold lines or fill gaps.........yeah, I dislike paying for unfinished or defective products, let alone overhyped companies.
Yes, most hobbies are overhyped and well over priced, just like all the paints and tools that go with them.
GW has amazing quality, there’s no denying that compared to other companies
@@chrislail3824 It really is top tier. I bought some battletech cause I really was feeling like painting some hard paneled mech stuff - the prices were also cheap so I was happy. But they use ABS plastic - their scuplts come out doughy and low detail. The edges aren't always perfectly straight, etc. The quality difference is very obvious once you're up close and personal with it.
@@Weaver_GamesIt is not ABS. It is some PVC blend.
But yeah, details are soft, and it is a pain to clean the sculpt.
Would be great if they just did PS kits instead.
@@FrozenThrog Sorry, you're right - my plastic knowledge is not high level
Very well said 😁 Dana
I think people tend to conflate the price of the minis themselves with the price to play the game. Im happy to pay 30 quid for a 10 man squad of GW minis, the issue would be if I had to buy 6 copies of that box to be able to play at a 2k point game for example
Today's multi-part mono pose models from GW are overpriced all the way, and they will get more expensive. And then they decide to squat them, and you have to buy more.
I stick to what I have for beer and pretzel games and print what I don't have already.
Just my 2 cents
This is exactly how I view my hobby purchases, whether it's a video game or a model kit. If I didn't buy and play with model kits, I'd spend that money on a video game or on books or whatever, and if I get a bunch of hours of enjoyment out of that leisure activity then I consider it money well spent.
I just accept that when I buy stuff for MCP, a lot of that price is for the brand (Marvel)
A really important thing for me is the intention of the creator or company made it for. As much as the value of things varies from person to person, the seller ultimately chooses the price. At the end
of the day, miniatures are still products. And products are usually made with a purpose in mind. Miniatures made for painting and display are usually a different price than something that's meant to be a piece in a game. GW stuff is priced like models for painting and display but are designed to be game pieces. And the price per model isn't even consistent
I get loads of hours of enjoyment out of my minis. And then they get to sit on my shelf to come own and get played with, feels pretty good value to me.
It's hard to judge for me because I don't know how much cost goes into the mini GW produces. They have to pay the designers that come up with the concept art and artwork, computer guys that design the model in whatever software they use, then they have to cut the model into pieces in such a way that no part sticks out of the horizontal plane when it's made in the injection mold. The mold itself costs multiple 10000€. Then there's storage, logistics and so on. With all that in mind idk what a fair price would be. Any company that produces minis will obviously have to sell hundreds/thousands of them before breaking even.
What I do agree is that GW models - at least things like normal heroes on foot for example - *feel* overcosted. A normal Space Marine character is what 30€+ these days? That seems too much!
They are very overpriced, compare them to Gunpla, which still need all the same things, but also have the added cost of engineering and more advanced injection molding techniques.
@@henryfleischer404 And now Bamco prints everything in China for 1/30th the wage a GW factory worker makes in the UK
@@Weaver_Games How about Kotobukiya then, last I checked they were quite proud of manufacturing everything in Japan?
GW's profit margin on plastic is quite good per their reports.
@@henryfleischer404 Do you have a source that shows that their injection molding is more advanced than GW's? What makes it more advanced?
I agree that GW minis are probably very overpriced and we are paying a lot for the label (just like Apple etc). It would be interesting to know what a fair and realistic price would actually be.
That's why I never really understood the people that just throw money at the hobby, dislike painting, and play flavor of the month. Clearly you could find a more balanced game for a fraction of the price that doesn't include the painting you despise.
Dollar per hour is a metric I've been using for almost 20 years now, and it doesn't steer me wrong, especially with miniatures where I get so much out of painting and assembling, and then having a game to play with them after is just gravy.
GW are far too expensive compared to other manufacturers with equally good miniatures and better games. (Infinity, Malifaux)
As somebody who collects both of the games listed-
GW is on-par with both Infinity and Malifaux. The difference is in game size, but collecting a faction in Infinity will definitely cost you about the same as a 40k army/collection
I think your analysis is overall very good. I agree that entertainment-hours are a good metric. And, style matters; if for example GW's sculpts set ones heart aflutter, and other companies' don't... But still, GW's prices leave an ashen taste in my mouth. Without accusing any other manufacturer of being overpriced I can say that GW is, because... A lot of comparable plastic mini sets from their competitors are way cheaper (Oathmark/Frostgrave, Mantic, Fireforge Games, Victrix, Gripping Beast), and the economies of scale are on GW's side! (And that's without bringing up Bandai or Tamiya.) But... Well, under your analysis, I'd say that most minis that aren't polystyrene are way overcosted. I mean, they are, in terms of value to the consumer, right? I can forgive metal and resin and PVC minis if I want (like all the Privateer Press stuff!), and say "minis of that sort Just Cost More", or I can dodge and say "the game uses fewer models", but... It makes me a hypocrite, doesn't it? A metal mini isn't "better", but I acknowledge that they always cost more and just shrug and accept it, because if it's only available in metal... But is that so different than shrugging and accepting it when a plastic mini costs more for no reason? Being sympathetic to production-costs doesn't ACTUALLY make the product more-functional for me. (And you're right that Lego tends to be a much more-expensive hobby than mini-painting, but it doesn't have to be! Average AFOL behavior of buying expensive sets to build once, versus efficient Lego hobby of having sorted parts and building and rebuilding with them.)
I actually think you’re right. I subconsciously have felt this way about this hobby for awhile. Thank you for breaking it down. Also I really enjoyed the super close up painting you had in the back drop while you were doing this vid. Have learned allot from your skill. Keep up the great vids. More please !
That's a beautiful Noise Marine.
Are miniatures prices high? I would say mostly yes. But GW prices have been ridiculous since ever, and nowadays with the pressure of the executives and trimestral payoffs, it's just insane.
They are overpriced, not because they are not very well designed, and the kits are awesome. All of that is true. But GW games (the big ones) need HUNDREDS of your local currency to get to a playable army. HUNDREDS.
And as with the rest of the GW logic, is absolutely by design.
You can purchase a whole army (or 95% of it) for some games for 100 of your currency.
For me personally, if I cannot make an almost fully playable to the standart point value for hundredish bucks, the miniatures are expensive.
Even just for painting, some GW solo figures (And don't make me start with the big ones) are absolutely overpriced. But people buy them so that is the price they have.
So I don't buy them, nor I play GW games.
And the "1 dollar / hour" mental gymnastics I hate. Quality always over quantity. Most Indie games would not be worth it by that metric, and almost all AAA-open-world-collectathon-grind-fest would be the best games ever. Heck, LoL and the other are the best "Buck per hour" and they are not that great....
For me it's not the cost of the model it's self. Its the change in cost over time. I took a 10 year break from table tops from 2013-2023. When I came back to the ttwg hobby model kits from GW were now twice what I had paid for them a decade early. The thing is, in some cases they were the same model kits and boxes that I had paid $40 10 years ago were inexplicably double that now. Considering other companies offer reasonable and well sculpted models why is GW so far out of whack? I am fine with things like a rise in the cost of plastics. That box that was once 40 should be 50 or 60 now. But 80? 50 for a single character model? GW seems to find the reasonable price for models and adds a $20 we know your gonna buy this anyway tax on top of it. Could be why their stock went up 12% last quarter. That's a huge jump that major economic sectors can only dream about.
Of these archetypes, I'm primarily a kitbasher. There are very few things that I have bought and put together without at least some minor alterations. I tend to buy things because they remind me of something else, which I can then combine with another thing to tweak it to resemble it even more. When I buy miniatures I prefer boxes that contain sprues with lots of modular bits, because the amount of options available is enjoyable for me. Back when I first started the hobby, I could get a box with a regiment for Warhammer at a price of about 25€. This usually came with pieces to make 20 complete miniatures, plus extra limbs and heads that could be used with green stuff and some extra work to make a further amount of complete ones. That I felt to be a pretty good monetary value for what I got.
In my country, a cheap miniature is around USD2.00. Up to USD4.00 I consider it to be average price, and more than that I'll say it's expensive. Most brands don't work here, so we have to import. This means GW, Atomic Mass, Corvus Belli... all those big brands are of the park... on the category of "gee ya rich". 3d prints and locals are cheap enough though. Proxies ftw
Thanks Dana for the positive tone, and bringing some perspective that sometimes gets lost. "How much is a miniature worth?" - whatever I'm (or anyone) is willing to pay for a hobby that can be enriching, creative, lets us bond with friends and community, take a mental break from the "real" world, etc. Everyone's situation is different as is the choice we make when we spend our discretionary hobby dollars. I personally think hardcore golfers are insane for the $s they spend on their obsession errrrr hobby, but for a lot of them it's as worth it to them as is me spending $s on plastic crack for my pile of potential. People rail on about GW prices but they are a business and as long as the market will bear their pricing, they'll continue to charge what they do.
I have my own definition of prices. I call it the MPM Coefficient - money per movie coefficient. It's like 20 Euro for a 2 h movie is an acceptable price. Most of our hobby expenses are way under that sum. Sometimes I think 10 Euro per hour is okay. Other times it's 1 Euro per hour or less.
I owned a small sports car for sone years. Last weekend I got invited to a shooting range. I buy ootics for birding. Miniature painting is not an expensive hobby - especially if your immune like me to FOMO.
I think it really depends on the quality of the miniature. If the miniature is low poly and not very detailed, it shouldn't cost more than $2USD. If it has more detail, meaning the artist spent a lot of time on it, then the cost could be higher and still reasonable. I agree with you when you say intention has a big influence on our cost expectations. I'm a painter (not a gamer), so I am willing to pay a little more for some beautifully sculpted minis. But 3D files, now that's a different story... most average packs of minis average at $1USD a mini, and that's a great deal. Thanks for sharing, Dana!
A friend of mine has told me that I get the cost per hour part of collecting miniatures backwards; and I suspect many other tabletop gamers do this as well. He pointed out that I will spend a disproportionate amount of money and time on a single 'boss monster', which I will only use once. This is partly true. I tend to save my best painted coolest minis for the climactic battle at the end of a series of scenarios. Although I will eventually reuse them, they don't come out very often. And I have gone to great lengths to get some of these figures, resorting to buying a complete set of minis, for just the right one. I tend to see the more expensive figures as a larger input into the aggregate cost of playing the game. And the extra time to paint them is still hobby time well spent
Thanks Dana. For me, I'm much more likely to value something I am buying because I want to paint it, than buying to fill out an army. In general, models are good value, as you say, for hours spent using them. I tend to think GW models are about 30% too expensive, still the thing that really turns me off a GW model price wise is the sneaky price increases which they are always, always, making (and often on models that are out of stock, so you can't even buy it before the price increase). When I look at other model companies, their models are usually not good enough, but when they are they cost of shipping tends to make them similar in price to a GW model - and if I go the GW store and buy stuff, I can meet people and make friends, which is worth money. Plus, our local GW is really good for painting and playing in store, which again, is worth money.
I do the hr per dollar math. That's a good way to remind yourself that you will really enjoy a thing and it doesn't cost you that much in return.
From where I'm standing, I basically only paint GW models because those are the painting competitions I attend and the games I (infrequently) play. But a single kill team can take me a really long time to paint (1-2 months) which is longer than what an equivilently priced video game would give me. (Astro Bot, my most recently purchased game, took me about 2 ish weeks).
I think most people will agree it is GW models that are overpriced, specifically the 40K stuff (not sure about AoS). I mainly collect 3 games as a painter with intent to play - Necromunda, Infinity and Carnevale. Necromunda kits tend to be a bit better value than 40K kits I would say and we consistently get new interesting Resin figures (not that I buy many of these). Infinity is still a small game compared to 40K and the minis are metal but similar to Necromunda you are getting individual sculpts rather than squads of slightly different versions of the same model. Prices are comparable to GW. Carnevale is from a small company, TTCombat, and all the figures are resin a box of 5 different sculpts costs £30 (I'm in the UK) and new additions to the gangs are constantly being released (vampires, priests, mad scientists and the cult of Dagon amongst them). How do I rate them value wise considering my interests in the hobby -Carnevale best and Necromunda currently worst as if I want more Escher all I can do is buy the same 2 boxes I have or some of the old resin kits.
Even GW has some boxes with great prices.
I bought the Agents of the Imperium Boarding patrol for ~105€.
It was 31 models (20 voidsmen, 9 starstriders + 1 dog and 1 assassin), so around 3,4 € per model.
And I've used those models to play Kill Team, Rogue Trader RPG and even the Aliens RPG.
I buy mainly to paint, so I think more about ''fun per dollar'', rather than ''points per dollar'', which is where things start to get funky with GW.
Being mostly a painter, I think $5 is decent for a mini! I’m not at all mad at a $5 4-pack from Wizkids either, just depends on what I think will be fun in my collection. And I’m happy to pay more for a cooler piece here and there!
And on the sidenote, I totally think “rules” should be free, nice books and other materials obviously have to cost money. But “rules” can and should be open, shared, and taught, I mean if ye want a fun, welcoming gaming group and community anyways!
Hey Dana, nice to see you again
i pretty much exclusively only buy GW stuff and i think the prices are fooking ridiculous.
Good video and I have often (also in my role as a gameshop salesperson) engaged in the same kind of analysis for roleplaying or board games, comparing them to a trip to the movies which only lasts for one night whereas other stuff will get repeated use.
However you only cover the "how much is it worth to you" angle and I think it can also be vital to consider how much it cost to make the product. Because if the price seems way higher than the cost to make it, we as consumers will get angry and resentful even if we buy it. A lot of Warhammer people are like this. They feel like they have no other option because "it's the game everyone else is playing" or "they still make the best minis" but they still think that GW is gouging them with inflated prices creating a very negative atmosphere.
I started Warhammer back in 1996 and have seen the prices go crazy since then. Back then you could get 20 space marines for $25, now you get one for $40 or more. I understand material prices go up but still when a can of primer costs $20 and 10 models cost you at least $55 it is nuts.
I have the strangest urge to make a Dokken-themed Noise Marine now.
I adore the noisemarine you painted.
Budgeting and patience are good skills to develop. I do feel like my friends that get upset at model prices tend to A: only play games workshop games and B: try to buy models/units that cost about 500usd all at once in a small amout of time.
Me and my gf dont have a lot fo money so we both spend about 40 bucks a month on minaitures/paints.
I forgot how much one can accomplish with patience and savings hehe. Thabks for believing in us dana. We always get stoned and watch your videos together.
Considering forex to my country, I consider USD3.50 a good amount of money to 1 hour of fun. I think that's a good rule of thumb. I never added up how much I spent on miniatures. You know... for sakes of... you know... why would I want to know? hahaha help me 😅
The wildly divergent (and often exorbitant) prices are due to one thing: marketing.
Measuring value as cost per hour is a great way to look at the hobby. It's also how I justify paying GW prices. I will spend a lot more time on a GW model than, say, WizKids. In the end, the cost per hour is probably pretty close. Of course, it also helps that I only buy a couple of GW sets per year. I'm not exactly blowing the bank on them.
Amazing noise marine btw
yes they are (GW) and look at gundams
Just getting into the hobby, recent subscriber, appreciate the content. Thank you!
I think some are, even sellers on etsy are selling proxies for the same price or close to GW prices.... without adding the shipping cost 😅
I enjoy assembly and painting too a point , but it's a means to an end and ultimately I want to play a game. That stuff just gets in the way. Therefore, I don't count pre-game prep as "entertainment value." It's more akin to assembling IKEA furniture for me.
As somebody into collecting both tabletop minis and Gunpla, bringing up Gunpla kits down here in the comments is asinine to this discussion. Are they more advanced? Yeah. Are they built to handle wargaming with the intention that you paint them up to your liking? Not really.
I feel like a lot of individual model and unit kits are genuinely overpriced and done so with the intent of driving customers towards buying "value" sets like Christmas boxes or army sets. Yeah you didn't really NEED to buy a full blown army box that was more costly than just buying the box of troops that you initially wanted but somehow it's less expensive than buying that single box because you're getting so much more.
Get a 3d printer, learn 3d modeling, join a community, keep that community encouraging and positive and inclusive, share your works, let everyone's prints and games be free.
Ah yes, just get into an entirely different hobby which requires both space and the willingness to work with toxic chemicals. Just that shrimple.
Wondering... what would people pay for a hand-sculpted custom polymer clay mini? I make some for friends and myself, but wouldn't know where to begin if I were to market them. Opinions?
As a traditional hand-sculptor? They're worth about $10/mm on my end for the pricing start of a commercial master sculpt.
You argued the issues well. We're obviously not going back to 30 Space Marines for £10 (I was there, as Elrond said). I've always been more modeller than gamer and looking at the Mark VI armour the pricing in terms of mass of plastic doesn't seem so far from an aircraft model kit.
I'd agree with this argument if some of that added value of a model that comes from it's rules was being paid in royalties to the people who write the rules. But it doesn't. So instead this has further convinced me that the price of these models is a scam, except now I also think the people who write the games are being scammed by these companies as well as the consumers who by them.
It's difficult to say that GW's minis are worth what they charge, when other miniatures companies who produce comparable products (in the broad strokes) give you double or more the models for half the price. How much should a squad of 10 soldiers with guns cost? That's subjective. But GW expects you to fork over $65+ for 10, while its competitors will give you a box of 24-30 of them for $35. (Some of them, like Wargames Atlantic, even come with all or most of the special weapons options a Guardsmen squad requires, and specialty bits sellers exist to plug holes in other manufacturers' kits).
Whether GW's products are uniquely high quality enough to justify their prices is also subjective. I mean, Wargames Atlantic has at least one Guard-alike kit (the Raumjagers) sculpted by Bob Naismith, a man with a proven "Warhammer-quality" track record. (And, not to knock Mr Naismith, but I personally think the Raumjager kit is the _weakest_ in the "Death Fields" range). More importantly, there are _levels_ of greater expense to consider. A big centerpiece dragon from GW might cost well over $100. Whereas Archon Studios will sell you a whole range of very nice, big centerpiece dragons (in hard plastic)...for under $40. And Archon Studios doesn't expect a single customer to buy more than one of each sculpt any more than GW expects it of their big centerpiece models.
This underscores a central theme: whatever is reasonable to charge for miniatures, GW exceeds that by a wide margin. Not coincidentally, this is why their _profit margins_ are something like 30-40%. In an economy where, in most industries, companies with margins after expenses of 10% are considered Very Successful.
Most people don't have a problem with miniatures prices in general. They have a problem with prices from Games Workshop _specifically._ Because Games Workshop's products are so much higher than their closest competitors, which goes directly to enriching their shareholders. It's not need, it's GREED.
GW minis are ridiculously expensive compared to many other companies.
I personally think a single small mini should be about 5 unless it's in a squad. A medium single mini 7 and 10 for a large mini.
A squad should be no more than a 1$ per mini, and should be sold with maximum squad size.
Context for me as a hobbieist I don't enjoy painting but love everything else
First of all, I only paint miniatures, I do not play much, and only with friends, so I do not care about the meta or the "hot new stuff".
Pre-pandemic I tried to stay around 1-1.5€ at miniature, now I updated to 2-2.5€ for GW.
Is it impossible? Almost, but between, ebay, vinted, thrift stores, friends and job lots I got around 300 miniatures for less than 400€ in the last 5 years. Also I sell what I do not paint, so I have technically spent much less or gain a little bit of pocket money.
How much a miniature should cost, in my opinion? No more than 1€ each. Better half the price.
I spend enough money on my cardboard crack that I don’t have a leg to stand on to criticize the price but I have enough spite towards Games Workshop that I’m gonna criticize them anyway.
I haven’t bought minis in years since I barely keep up painting all the minis I modeled and printed myself
I fully agree with this, 2 hours at the cinema costs more than a lot of mini kits whereas I can spend 10s of hours just on building aqnd painting. Already a cheap per hour hobby prior to playing with them
That being said RPGs are even cheaper by this metric because you need one or two books between 4-5 people and you can get 100s of hours out of them
lol the shade of 2 hours of Origami King.
I always say that 40k is an expensive game but it's not really that expensive as a hobby. I personally really like building and painting to what I deem a high level. I'll probably spend 10 - 12 hours on a mini. So for a box of 10 let's say 100 hours - so even if I could hobby 25 hours a week it would still take me a month to get through a box. If instead of hoarding plastic like a dragon people just bought a new kit after they were done their previous kit I bet they would find things far more affordable. Obviously if you're trying to be a competitive tournament player then you're looking at spending a mad amount of money to try to stay on top of the meta.
Also, as to the raw cost - I won't pretend GW is cheap. I also won't say the BS they do with their codices didn't bother me back when I played - but I also don't find that here in Canada their prices are that out of line with the competition. Most LGS here have 20% off the GW list price. Some even do 30% off but are prohibited from listing the prices online. I was recently looking at Malifaux and they were like $60 - 70 CAD for a box of 4 minis - and a box of intercessors here is about $60 CAD and you get 10 of them so... seems like it's mostly in line with most wargaming prices - albeit perhaps at the top end?
I don’t play any war games, but I do love building models of all kinds, and RC cars. With that, when you compare the price of GW kits to kits like Tamiya, I think GW is WAY overpriced. For the price of some of their bigger vehicles, I can build a fully functional RC car. I do love GW models, and I’ve bought several. But the high price did take away a little bit of the enjoyment I got out of building them.
Excellent video! Don’t forget the “value of your imagination and anticipation of thinking about and finally getting the expected miniatures! Are miniatures too expensive? Answer- that depends …..
I have to disagree. Lore, Rules, your time spent with a miniature - all these things are arbitrary and have nothing to do with the miniature's value or its production cost. A miniature does not contain 8" movement inside, and the fact that it depicts a certain character has nothing to do with its quality!
The price and value of a product should be judged by its objective characteristics: the quality of sculpt and material, the cost of production etc. Unfortunately, the availability/rarity of an item do affect its cost, but even then there are some reasonable price limits, and we're not talking about obsolete and vintage models right now anyway.
Just to clarify: obviously, the market plays its role in how the prices are, and we often judge the price of a product by comparing it to similar products. But that is far more reasonable than judging it by some purely subjective metric that has nothing to do with the production or other things that actually affect the prices.
I'm fine with the price of GW miniatures. The market has shows time and again that they have priced them correctly as people keep buying them and their profit grows every year. If people are priced out of GW, there are plenty of other alternatives out there. Not every product is for everybody. GW is the Kleenex/Bandaid of the miniature wargames industry. With the brand recognition comes the ability to set their prices for the market in a way that reflects their brand. There are plenty of cars that are made on the exact same line and with similar parts as another, but they charge a much higher price because of the brand.
Not sure to be honest. I think there is far more that goes into each and every model than people realise, and all companies releasing models (not just GW) are in the business of making money. Recently, crit role models failed to hit the numbers required to be released in a financially viable way, and so they ave been cancelled.
Ultimately, the consumer is the one that sets the price that they think is "ok".
For every model purchased, the company (no matter the size) begins to ask, can we charge more.
And on and on it goes.
Demand drives the market.
GW cops a flogging here, but frankly the tallest poppy is *always* the first to be targeted. They produce amazing models, and have an insanely large catalogue.
Value is on the eye of the beholder. Are GW models worth the price? Yes, I personally believe the models are worth it. Sometimes. 40k or AoS requiring so many models is not worth it. Kill team, Necromunda, Mordheim, Underworld, Warcry, and the like feel way more valuable because the amount needed is much lower. Needing to spend $1000+ for necessary models to play a game drives their value down. But spending $50-60 on the same models and I can paint, and play them makes them well worth the cost
They cost too much for the consumer they should be vastly less, they cost next to nothing to produce for the manufacturer but yet we pay 80$ for like 10 models which is ludicrous it should cost no more than 20$ per small infantry kit and maybe 50-100$ for larger amounts or for larger models
This noise marine is an absolutely loud howl, Dana!
Im always on the line between GW minis being "too expensive" and "fair". This is how I see it:
Why its unfair:
> For the amount of plastic/models, you get less and less with new iterations.
> The most popular factions also get some of the worst value kits across the game (less models, higher priced, and monopose)
> Newer model kits are static, hard to kitbash, or just straight up push to fix resold at a premium price
> The options for "value" play is limited or nonexistent. IMHO Age of Sigmar's Combat Patrol equivalent is some of the best value, has more minis on average, and include a comprehensive game mode. All for a base price that is LESS than combat patrol boxes, not including the extra third-party discount from local hobby stores.
> Some countries have BS markup compared to expected exchange rates between currencies.
Why its Fair:
> If you diverge from certain factions, there are armies that have so much extra value from the extra bits you get, and the ability to kitbash for added value (GSC and Orks) is amazing.
> The majority of kits being multipose is a huge seller for me. Unless I'm getting a model at a huge discount, why would I pay for a model kit that is always the same 3 poses? A lot of model manufacturers are mono pose, and that is my biggest pet peeve.
> The kits are well made and sculpted really nicely. While some might come off as "uninspired", it's a long way off from the 90's as far as I am concerned.
> Many manufacturers' models just "don't look right." This might be my own bias, but I feel a lot of plastic models look goofy proportion-wise. I've only really liked GW, Warlord games, Perry Brothers, and Atomic Mass games. Beyond that, a lot of manufacturers just seem to miss the mark on quality, and sometimes they charge premium prices on top of that.
> GW makes their models in UK, not China. Same reason I buy Gundam kits. They are designed and manufactured in Japan, not China. I can't stress the importance of localized industries. If it brings jobs and money back into the country, then I'm for it.
But if you look at Wargames Atlantic or Firelock or North Star, you get multipart variable pose minitures at a much lower price point than GW.
If you look at Bandai you get insane comparisons. Average 6-8 inch high Real Grade is about the same price as a GW 30mm hero. Mere HG kits are about half that.
@@Octarinewolf I won't disagree with you on either of those points. I would add Wargames Atlantic is kind of "everywhere" with their kits. I can't see myself buying alot of their stuff unless Im already starting an army for another game system, and 1 or more of their kits might be good proxies/kitbash fodder. But for the value they are good (even if some of their models are a bit funny proportions wise).
Gundam and other Bandai kits are nice, but they don't really have a place for alot of wargames. Though, if Bandai wanted to get into small-scale wargaming and make small multipart kits, I would be VERY interested to see how they approach it. But love their models; just wish I could do something with them, lol.
THe three companies I mention sho it is possible to make a profit on smaller production runs thena GW using the same technologies. Which makes them a good comparator for GW's prices.
Bandai have produced three different wargames rulesets I know of for Gundam (One was an RPG/Wargames ruleset based on Mekton). Which might be a problem is they were all in Japanese and haven't been translated and two were for ranges of prepained mostly vinyl 1/300 and 1/400 scale models. They also had Hex and small scale mecha figure games before Battletech (The two Fang of the Sun Dougram games inspired Battletech and the plastic kits in the original Battle Droids were the Dougram and Roundfacer 1/300 kits)
You are suggesting that GW's IP justifies the price, when Gundam is every bit as much an IP about selling plastic model kits.and manages cheaper better quality (On a technical basis) boxes.
@@Octarinewolf
I think despite the markup, there is still a fair value for alot of the model kits currently sold by GW. Though that list is unfortunately dwindling as GW makes changes to their lineup (mainly Space Marines, despite being the figure head, they are some of the worst value for the price). I do think for the price you pay, you get quality sculpts with high detail that are not a pain to build.
After searching I do see Atlantic Games is now produced in the USA. So I don't think GW has much ground to say they can't keep their prices down. But I also wouldn't say your a dummy for buying GW models (at least some of them) as alot of similar miniature makers are charging 50-60 a box.
I'm always keeping an eye out for model manufacturers that have great looking models that are cost effective. My problem is that I haven't found many manufacturers that seem inspired beyond Warhammer, or bolt action's miniatures (but I'm a historical nerd, so I might be biased there).
Alot of Syfy miniatures feels cheap or weird. I wish I could explain better, but a lot of manufacturers models feel off. I want to say it's because GW has had decades to perfect their styles (think about how weird the fantasy and rogue trader stuff is. Interesting but kinda funky tbh).
Are some brands expensive? Yes.
Has that priced people out of certain games? For sure.
Are other games significantly better value for money? Absolutely!
Are they overpriced? Companies continuing to be in business suggests not.
What's a miniature worth? I pay for it twice, once with money and again with time, so the value judgement here is spotty :)
Spectacular paintjob on that noisemarine
hmmm, unpainted figures $7.50 to $10 for a standard size (32 mm) figure (Canadian $$). Painted to a tabletop standard, $25 or more. For larger figures, more detailed etc, anywhere from 15$ up to $60, unpainted. Painted would add to that of course. Those numbers assume Good quality scuplts with nice detail etc. All dollar amounts Canadian. Interesting video, keep up the good work.
I mainly get minis that comes with a game ie CMON. I've Warhammer minis but I haven't assembled them.
Is Games Workshop more expensive? I think it depends where in the world you live. WherexI am, Infinity, Marvel and Malifaux are as expensive or more expensive on a model by model basis, but you need fewer of them for a game. Historicals and Mantic are cheaper, but smaller and have fewer options. I think it depends a lot on what you want. I don't think Games Workshop are cheap, but I don't buy into a view that everything else is fine and they are over priced.
GW in particular is grossly over priced, I live in NZ, and their products can be up to 50% more expensive than their UK RRP. This was originally highlighted when forgeworld changed to regional pricing. An australian youtuber compared the warlord titan on GBP vs AUD, and showed that it was going to cost $1000 AUD more, and that was before shipping.
i still think this is a cheap hobby, special how many hours i spend on it. is gw Expensive yes, but i don't care, I'm proud that its made in the uk its paying UK salaries and i can always get a game of Warhammer where ever i go, unlike other game systems
Games Workshop minis are ridiculously expensive for no other reason than they are greedy and enjoy taking advantage of their own fans.
Only some are such as GW. Example one ton of the type of plastic they use is at anytime 400-600 dollars per ton that is nothing... plastic tech is cheaper now than it was 20 years ago but it cost more (when adjusted for inflation today) the part that costs the most by far are the boxes its not even close paper and cardboard boxes are many more times more expensive.
They should cost what frostgrave minis cost 😊
Personally I think Warhammer should priced about half of what they are now. Seems more legit and fairly priced. Much to my dismay I will continue to pay the existing price because I'm a sucker.