This was actually a really good debate - despite lots of the comments calling her autistic and other meme shit, she's actually pretty intelligent and makes some pretty good arguments, respect to her
honestly this is one of the best debates on his channel despite her mic, really interesting thought provoking stuff for me atleast (although i havent given the vegan debate much thought so far since i dont even like meat that much (although i guess thats more of a vegetarian thing))
Destiny asked if they'd donate eggs and they said no, implying they have eggs, implying they're female. But maybe they just went along with it cause they didn't want to reveal their sex.
When she tried to argue that we could just invade mexico without a fuck ton of problems arising from it from the rest of the world because of that was what pushed me towards the “she’s autistic lmao” side.
This is the closest I've come to seeing someone curbstomp you destiny. Usually you are curbstomping white nationalists, but this gal really gave you a run for your money. When you started making "might is right" arguments it was pretty clear that as it stands, you don't have a very consistent or compelling argument against her on this. I certainly don't agree with your views on this, now or in the past, but I like that you were willing to have the conversation with her, it's one of the best you've uploaded I think.
Imagine thinking Destiny curbstomps people. his fans are fucking delusional, the guy loses every time. Here's Destiny's schtick; "do you have a source? Do you have a peer reviewed study? Who are the peers? Whatever, I don't like the methodology of that study." Dude's a fucking loser who operates on false premises to trick little idiots like you. He makes constant arguments from authority, he's a low level joke. You could show him video evidence and he'd deny it because there's no "peer reviewed" studies
I love how the person who destroys destiny isn't youtubers who've effectively dedicated their lives to political discourse, but some random vegan fan uwu
eartianwerewolf That's what happens when you shape your ideologies based on the absolute worst people. I think that most people can agree that hypocrites are annoying, but how easily that became an absolute law in his belief system speaks a lot about how he wants to distance him self from these groups. Everyone is bad, dumb, and a hypocrite, you can't force yourself to be something different. It's been a long time coming, but I'm glad that someone finally asked (kind of) why he would prioritize consistency over outcome when the indicators points to him being a consequentalist.
The Rustiest Venture Yeah dude i know it was on a stream i’m not retarted but i thought this dude who made the comment started the video without watching it on the stream because why would you watch the video if you’ve seen the stream?
A dead cow or pig can feed dozens of people, whereas a dead chicken or fish can only feed one or two people. Fewer animals have to be killed for a diet of beef/pork than for a diet of chicken or fish. On the other hand, beef contributes disproportionately to climate change.
Jesse Bracho I state a fact of how we value creatures. Usually humans have the wherewithal or presence of mind to think that actions have consequences. Animals do not. «We value animals equal to humans because they are equal» -Big Brain
Jesse Bracho No, I made a statement of reality. We value humans over animals. Thats a factual descriptive claim, not a normative one. Learn the diffrence. Then I made a qualification on my next comment, as to one of the reasons why I think its correct of us to value humans over animals. If you are not going to engage with an argument, please don’t reply.
Krippaxxus, Eredarlord of the salty Legion Don’t have a good vocabulary, so you can say «omg big words». Then you have to be slow, so you can say «omg u talk too fast». Then just ignore logic. Then you will win every single debate.
This lady has no idea how drug culture works if she thinks going to a bunch of dealers and asking "Hey who's your supplier?" is in any way a practical idea.
Matt D. Nelson That is also not a practical option for many people, due to time constraints. [4-12]-hour round trips every [5-14] days just aren't something most people can fit into their schedules. For the people who can do this, they still have to weigh the risks of jail time and sustained unemployment.
Riotdrop She can say that all she wants. Doesn't make it true. Marijuana has incredible medicinal value. It helps treat a myriad of psychological disorders. Some people just use it for general stress relief, which is important for overall wellness, but bud can be used for so much more. It can be used to treat pain - especially nerve pain. Honestly it's the closest thing we have to a panacea for neurological disorders. If people I care about are being helped, why would I undermine that? Why would I not want to back the most reliable source, whatever it may be? Even those who use it as a "luxury" help guarantee it's easily available for those who need it, and the fact that not everyone in the market has a medical necessity helps keep the price reasonable for those who do.
"i don't mind sweatshops where the company has to install bars on the windows and nets in the staircases to prevent their workers from committing suicide but i have a problem with drug cartels and people who are anti gay rights" that seems like some fucking skewed priorities to me
The entrapment with the drug thing leading into the vegan meme still warms my heart to this day. This has to be the best debate about veganism on YT for sure.
I don't see why this needs to be so complicated. Animals can have emotions, experience fear, pain, anxiety, curiosity, etc. I don't want to cause negative emotions without a really good reason. For the record, I'll join the 1000.
He has lycan now he should be plant based 4 days a week or something Or atleast he should do something about his emissions since he flies around so much
She was abit hard to understand at times but she danced rings around destiny for the most part. Not often someone wants to talk who is capable of half of what she did.
Even though the mic quality is bad, this debate really felt like it went the distance, exploring way more than other crappy vegan debates. I think the biggest take away from this is that we all can and should make a good faith effort to be more morally consistent instead of hand-waiving away these issues because we nihilistically think we cant make a difference.
*I think the biggest take away from this is that we all can and should make a good faith effort to be more morally consistent instead of hand-waiving away these issues because we nihilistically think we cant make a difference.* Not everyone necessarily takes consistency to be a virtue worth striving towards.
Correct me if Im wrong here but on the whole "might is right" argument, it seems like destiny misrepresents his own ideals to some degree. Because I believe what he wants to argue is not the ability of a species to punish you for not following the social contract, rather I believe that criteria would be better described as "is there something for me to gain from a social contract with the species / is there an insentive for me" So for example, a pig doesnt have anything to offer me for not killing it, it wont further my life in any way and protection from the species is irrelevant considering our position of might. Similarily that would apply to almost all animals, except for for instance Bees since they play a huge roll in spreading pollen and a form of social contract that would prohibit me from killing them would thus benefit me greatly since killing them would have a huge negative effect on my life. Basically you inconvenience yourself by keeping pigs alive and not eating them whereas you would heavily inconvenience yourself by KILLING bees for instance. Feel free to discuss this point with me, that was just a thought i had while listening to that discussion.
I'm not sure why you posit that certain animals/insects are exceptions, when all Earth-dwelling animals coexist in an ecosystem that requires a balance between populations of every species. The food chain isn't just bees > plants > people. It isn't a food chain at all, but a food web. Some general understanding of ecology will remedy this confusion.
@@6oth6amer6irl So you assume that every species on the planet is equally important for human life just because we all share an ecosystem? Thats a bold statement. Id venture a guess and say all pigs in the world could die at the same time and the human race would still survive. If all bees died, thats another story. But Im sure your general understanding of ecology will allow you to demonstrate why that wouldnt be the case.
Was there ever a follow up to this debate? I wonder what his stance currently is, other than he still feels no moral obligation to take animals into consideration.
Destiny said he spent more time thinking about it here ua-cam.com/video/0TofHR-brgs/v-deo.html He even mentions that he got DESTROYED in this debate! (not really but he said that she had a more ironed out position on veganism than him)
Lemme guess: Destiny's going to do some SOCIAL CONTRACT memes to make an incredibly contrived argument that he thinks removes all moral considerstion from animals and therefore allows him to keep eating animals?
IM Wercs you cant be in Favor of veganism and live in a privileged society and care for the enviroment at the same time. Those are contradicting. You would have to sacrifice one of those to have the other. If you want to live in a privileged society then you have to damage the enviroment and eat animals. Every aninals well being is beings interfered with by the society you live in and you canr get around this unless you live in another planet
Alexander there is no fallocy with what i said im simply responding to what vegans say when they claim that sentience is importnant on what we pur moral consideration on. I know your not a vegan but im attacking their point of view because they are picking and choosing what animals they value more than others. And its arbituary because the notion of sentience is ridiculous and its The arguments they use against meat eaters for eating meat when we dont have moral consideration for chickens cows and pigs i can say the same thing to them when they kill millions of animals who try to eat the plants and interfere with crops and and all the instects they kill and all the cities they build over ecosystems. With such a claim like that that vegans are forced to make the only consistant point of view which is an all or nothing senerio because they are injecting a moral obligation when talking to meat eaters which poisons the well and it fundamentally opens the door for the all or nothing senerio when i acknowledge the arbitrary notion of how important sentience is with insects and other animals. Its fundamentally different in your case when your talking about medicine for people. With that whatever the net positive is for that tbat would probably be best for society. And your not injecting some type of immorality for the people who dont get the medicine. With vegans they HAVE to care about any bring who has the capabilty of having sentience or their argument falls apart
drug cartels arent the entire industry. theyre a very small source, especially when youre talking about shrooms or lsd or any kind of psychedelics. most are locally grown.
Idk right I see his point in terms of an environmental impact. Does destiny have the capacity to change other people into being more people? Certainly in a strictly logical sense Destiny's moral kitchen doesn't make sense but there is a level of abstraction within this food system that does discourage consumer power in terms of veganism, no?
Not directly and thats her point buying weed from a dealer who somehow is linked to the cartel in anyway supports them and supports them directly. If you buy from dispensaries which isnt that hard or from a dealer who grows his own you arent contributing directly or in any meaningful way.
Regarding the people in India doing the scamming, it's hard to pinpoint culpability for a different reason: many of the scammers in India got there by being tricked into a really shitty contract where they owe the company for thousands.
Ethical shroom use? Grow them yourself, super easy. Just buy a grow kit, set and forget and you are golden in a month or two. Still have shrooms left from my covid lockdown grow.
State-of-the-art machine learning algorithms are still basically just a bunch of matrix multiplications. Most of them are deterministic systems, they don't exactly get a life of their own. The probabilistic ones just inject random noise to get a measure of uncertainty, but turn out to be equivalent to statistical methods that have been available for decades, it's just that now we can run higher dimensional models than before. The argument that we should apply morality to fancy regression models is absurd.
Has a destiny already admitted that veganism is morally right he just doesn't switch because he loves meat too much? It was a good debate but I'm not really sure why this debate keeps happening honestly
The problem with being concerned about the ethics of the products you are buying is that exploitation is rampant everywhere. You would have to go full fucking unibomber and live off the land to avoid it.
Until this girl's "We could invade Mexico" argument I thought she was doing a very logical and intelligent building of an argument. As soon as she made that argument and all of her points and arguments after it were super irrational and defensive. Disappointing
The worst part of this debate was the last 5 minutes. The person is kind of talking out of their ass about AI. There is no reason your neural net (what they're talking about) can't have randomized elements post-training (for "personality" or something). Nobody would try to argue that a neural network spread across multiple hardware units was many individuals in the first place, but a duplication of a network many times, even if all instances would behave entirely deterministically, provided the same inputs, would all be individual.
Destiny's argument wasn't that humans are naturally moral, it was that, when placed in a normal "human" environment, healthy humans always become moral and gain an ability to reciprocate values. On the other hand, animals don't gain that in a normal, healthy animal environment.
Allergic to avocados unfortunately. Reason I ask is because I'm going to attempt a vegan diet. I still need to do the proper research this weekend and consult my allergist but I want to give it an honest and sincere attempt just to see how it goes. I'm curious to see how I'll fair as a construction worker with a vegan diet. Thanks for the advice.
Yeah even though I'm not vegan I don't think it's possible to agree against it I think it's better for him to not be entirely consistent on his beliefs rather than changing them on the fly xD
Cartoonish "you don't NEED to do drugs" ignores reality. If not, why do those people do it, then? People don't need to relax. People don't need to escape their problems. People can survive without ever venting, relaxing or enjoying even a moment of their lives. But they want those things. Sounds like a stupid argument. Buying drugs because I have no other way to relax does not make me responsible for whatever murders any drug cartel commits. Just as buying a steak doesn't make me responsible for the immoral activities of the meat industry. It may have a small effect, yes, but even if I hadn't bought that steak or those drugs, they'd still exist.
Ah, y'know what? It did turn out to be an interesting debate. However, it was rather dry, and I think the lady is a little too naive to think that Destiny is going to make such life-altering dietary changes because of her word. Still, I take back my previous comment about her being an idiot.
The training is the training of the attachment to the human, without the presence of humans the pig would not have been able to even recognize the human much less rescue it's life, probably not a pot belly pig but many animals in the wild (such as boars) are liable to gut you on contact.
There are dogs that can help people stand up... there are dogs that are trained to use their body as a support mechanism for people to use to stand. Like a prop. I have seen a video of a great dane holding a rope in it's teeth and the person grabbed the rope and the dog pulled to help him stand. So I believe a pig could be trained to do this as well.
Destiny got destroyed in this debate and it's not even a meme this time.
This was actually a really good debate - despite lots of the comments calling her autistic and other meme shit, she's actually pretty intelligent and makes some pretty good arguments, respect to her
Ed from what ive heard so far, id have to disagree
honestly this is one of the best debates on his channel despite her mic, really interesting thought provoking stuff for me atleast (although i havent given the vegan debate much thought so far since i dont even like meat that much (although i guess thats more of a vegetarian thing))
Not trying to meme, but are you sure this person is a she? I thought this guy was a he but I'm probably wrong.
Destiny asked if they'd donate eggs and they said no, implying they have eggs, implying they're female. But maybe they just went along with it cause they didn't want to reveal their sex.
When she tried to argue that we could just invade mexico without a fuck ton of problems arising from it from the rest of the world because of that was what pushed me towards the “she’s autistic lmao” side.
Destiny unironically got destroyed in this debate.
Wait someone beat me to this comment fuck.
Is Steven talking to a deep learning AI?
Yes
This is the closest I've come to seeing someone curbstomp you destiny. Usually you are curbstomping white nationalists, but this gal really gave you a run for your money. When you started making "might is right" arguments it was pretty clear that as it stands, you don't have a very consistent or compelling argument against her on this. I certainly don't agree with your views on this, now or in the past, but I like that you were willing to have the conversation with her, it's one of the best you've uploaded I think.
BattleWalrus Appeal to Tradition
girls make him nervous.
One year later and Steven still has nothing better than might is right PepeLaugh if you think might actually is right why are you debating mm
Imagine thinking Destiny curbstomps people. his fans are fucking delusional, the guy loses every time. Here's Destiny's schtick; "do you have a source? Do you have a peer reviewed study? Who are the peers? Whatever, I don't like the methodology of that study." Dude's a fucking loser who operates on false premises to trick little idiots like you. He makes constant arguments from authority, he's a low level joke. You could show him video evidence and he'd deny it because there's no "peer reviewed" studies
@@TheGr8one1022 good one kyle
She got him. She made him rationalize slavery for fuck's sake. He gave up of defending reciprocation to defending might makes right.
Negative Creep we keep pets as slaves and we think thats morally permissible lol
Nathan Dennis Vegans are against that. However, the nature of the pet industry makes it morally permissible to adopt an animal.
True Darkness but youll continue to have your dogs in your house
barges into stream
destroys destiny the most he’s ever been destroyed in a debate
refuses to elaborate
leaves the internet forever
GIGACHAD
@@nunixnunix04 GIGACHAD
I think this might be one of my favourite debates.
A+ Debate. Shes sounds like she's speaking through a can, but that was very well spoken and navigated.
In this episode, Destiny finds out his consistent beliefs aren't consistent.
I love how the person who destroys destiny isn't youtubers who've effectively dedicated their lives to political discourse, but some random vegan fan uwu
Chanson
Maybe, now all Destiny has left to "find out" is that there is no value to being consistent in the first place.
I also am not sure consistency is the most important metric of a moral system either.
eartianwerewolf That's what happens when you shape your ideologies based on the absolute worst people. I think that most people can agree that hypocrites are annoying, but how easily that became an absolute law in his belief system speaks a lot about how he wants to distance him self from these groups. Everyone is bad, dumb, and a hypocrite, you can't force yourself to be something different. It's been a long time coming, but I'm glad that someone finally asked (kind of) why he would prioritize consistency over outcome when the indicators points to him being a consequentalist.
Chanson the girl kept shifting the burden of proof
This is probably the first time Destiny has been unironically destroyed.
Best debate so far holy shit
123456789blaaa Dude you made this comment a minute ago this video is 2 hours along the debate hasn’t event started dude
I'm sure you can figure out how I managed to watch the whole thing.
The Rustiest Venture Yeah dude i know it was on a stream i’m not retarted but i thought this dude who made the comment started the video without watching it on the stream because why would you watch the video if you’ve seen the stream?
Lol
debate me about it
I'm in your audience and I will go vegan
I quit eating beef and pig, but I'm not giving up birds and fish. LOL. Sorry. yes, I make judgements based on mental capacity.
eartianwerewolf
any objections to farming and eating human babies that don't also apply to birds and fish?
jr123 stfu
A dead cow or pig can feed dozens of people, whereas a dead chicken or fish can only feed one or two people. Fewer animals have to be killed for a diet of beef/pork than for a diet of chicken or fish. On the other hand, beef contributes disproportionately to climate change.
jr123 canniblism has disasturos health effects beyone eating chicken, fish etc and is also currently illigal.
Destiny made me vegan.
Thomas King he actually strengthened my stance on veganism
Woopboop made you vegan ;)
Well, I loved that guest. Holy shit. This person is seriously wonderful.
"a pig can't greet me hello or tell me a story, so they don't deserve to live" there's something missing in destiny's head
Makers Will yeah, it's pretty fucked up. I can never understand how humans can say that they're of more objective value than other animals
Mark K Because we value human babies over animal babies. Is that hard to fathom?
Jesse Bracho I state a fact of how we value creatures. Usually humans have the wherewithal or presence of mind to think that actions have consequences. Animals do not.
«We value animals equal to humans because they are equal» -Big Brain
Jesse Bracho Its the same logic you applied to my comment. Idiot.
Jesse Bracho No, I made a statement of reality. We value humans over animals. Thats a factual descriptive claim, not a normative one. Learn the diffrence.
Then I made a qualification on my next comment, as to one of the reasons why I think its correct of us to value humans over animals.
If you are not going to engage with an argument, please don’t reply.
This is the first time I am not memeing when I say destiny got destroyed in this debate..
Destiny actually destroyed himself with inconsistent logic in this debate.
Does this person have a channel?
She is intelligent.
Find her?
@@KickinAss1000 Unironically did you find more?
@@KickinAss1000 name is Woopboop
Damn. I love this woman.
Fun to see Destiny's own debate techniques used on him
OverRustle /
Does it make you weak and stinky?
Danny Doyle ehhh da fuck
what are his debate techniques called, so i can read up and be like him someday?
Krippaxxus, Eredarlord of the salty Legion Don’t have a good vocabulary, so you can say «omg big words». Then you have to be slow, so you can say «omg u talk too fast».
Then just ignore logic. Then you will win every single debate.
Honestly, this was great.
This has been one of the best debates to date, please do a follow-up in a month or so.
This debate made me a vegan. Been one ever since.
I actually enjoyed listening to this one! Thanks for posting
This was cute. Veganism was consumed in this collaborative document.
Let's go Vegstiny. Leave a better planet for your son :)
This lady has no idea how drug culture works if she thinks going to a bunch of dealers and asking "Hey who's your supplier?" is in any way a practical idea.
Matt D. Nelson That is also not a practical option for many people, due to time constraints. [4-12]-hour round trips every [5-14] days just aren't something most people can fit into their schedules. For the people who can do this, they still have to weigh the risks of jail time and sustained unemployment.
Riotdrop She can say that all she wants. Doesn't make it true.
Marijuana has incredible medicinal value. It helps treat a myriad of psychological disorders. Some people just use it for general stress relief, which is important for overall wellness, but bud can be used for so much more. It can be used to treat pain - especially nerve pain. Honestly it's the closest thing we have to a panacea for neurological disorders.
If people I care about are being helped, why would I undermine that? Why would I not want to back the most reliable source, whatever it may be? Even those who use it as a "luxury" help guarantee it's easily available for those who need it, and the fact that not everyone in the market has a medical necessity helps keep the price reasonable for those who do.
Maybe because she's not useless garbage so she wouldn't know about how drugs work.
True Darkness gr8 b8 m8
Riotdrop pleasant to be around vs productive to society
Woop doop did great. I really enjoyed that debate.
This is why you don't debate a robot, you'll lose
the funny thing is that rule utilitarianism makes veganism even more obligatory than act utilitarianism.
"i don't mind sweatshops where the company has to install bars on the windows and nets in the staircases to prevent their workers from committing suicide but i have a problem with drug cartels and people who are anti gay rights" that seems like some fucking skewed priorities to me
41:20 HOLY FUCK
So Destiny is unironically getting his ass handed to him. This is a great learning experience and I'm happy for everyone involved.
This person was fantastic. Get WoopBoop back for more debates please.
You should make "Sleep Deprived Debates" a regular series. This was one of the best.
This person is BASED. Destiny should be honest and just say he's not vegan cause it's inconvenient and he only cares about himself.
The entrapment with the drug thing leading into the vegan meme still warms my heart to this day. This has to be the best debate about veganism on YT for sure.
Damn another convo involving veganism? Just go vegan already hahah
Or say that they are right, but you don't give a shit so they will stop with this crap.
I don't see why this needs to be so complicated. Animals can have emotions, experience fear, pain, anxiety, curiosity, etc. I don't want to cause negative emotions without a really good reason. For the record, I'll join the 1000.
Jrezky yeh but Destiny doesn't give a shit about animals' negative feelings
Alexinator Yeah but if he said the same about a stranger across the world it still isn't a good enough reason to deny them prosperity and fulfillment.
Destiny you are not a consequentialist. You said about the train problem you wouldn’t push the one person to save the 4, for instance.
a s o c i o p a t h w o u l d s a y t h a t
He's a rule consequentialist
seeing "Destiny would factory farm wards of the state with down syndrome" typed out on the document made me laugh hysterically for some reason
i guess it takes a literal cyborg to actually give destiny a run for his money
quality content right here boi
He has lycan now he should be plant based 4 days a week or something
Or atleast he should do something about his emissions since he flies around so much
She was abit hard to understand at times but she danced rings around destiny for the most part. Not often someone wants to talk who is capable of half of what she did.
Destiny actually got destroyed in this debate D:
She wiped the floor with him lol
Even though the mic quality is bad, this debate really felt like it went the distance, exploring way more than other crappy vegan debates. I think the biggest take away from this is that we all can and should make a good faith effort to be more morally consistent instead of hand-waiving away these issues because we nihilistically think we cant make a difference.
*I think the biggest take away from this is that we all can and should make a good faith effort to be more morally consistent instead of hand-waiving away these issues because we nihilistically think we cant make a difference.*
Not everyone necessarily takes consistency to be a virtue worth striving towards.
The answer is yes, just buy ethically sourced drugs, it is not unreasonable to know where they come from. Dont bring cartels into your area.
The social contract got destroyed in this debate
Destiny legitimately got destroyed in this debate, and he was the one who did it.
She led him to his self destruction
You’re selling her short
Destiny got totally veganized in this debate
Join the 1000 new vegan destiny challenge aha
Correct me if Im wrong here but on the whole "might is right" argument, it seems like destiny misrepresents his own ideals to some degree. Because I believe what he wants to argue is not the ability of a species to punish you for not following the social contract, rather I believe that criteria would be better described as "is there something for me to gain from a social contract with the species / is there an insentive for me" So for example, a pig doesnt have anything to offer me for not killing it, it wont further my life in any way and protection from the species is irrelevant considering our position of might. Similarily that would apply to almost all animals, except for for instance Bees since they play a huge roll in spreading pollen and a form of social contract that would prohibit me from killing them would thus benefit me greatly since killing them would have a huge negative effect on my life. Basically you inconvenience yourself by keeping pigs alive and not eating them whereas you would heavily inconvenience yourself by KILLING bees for instance. Feel free to discuss this point with me, that was just a thought i had while listening to that discussion.
Only in reality the consumption of meat is unhealthy for you and polutes the planet. So the only real reason for destiny is that it tastes good.
Seems like a pretty big inconvenience to me.
I'm not sure why you posit that certain animals/insects are exceptions, when all Earth-dwelling animals coexist in an ecosystem that requires a balance between populations of every species. The food chain isn't just bees > plants > people. It isn't a food chain at all, but a food web. Some general understanding of ecology will remedy this confusion.
@@6oth6amer6irl So you assume that every species on the planet is equally important for human life just because we all share an ecosystem?
Thats a bold statement. Id venture a guess and say all pigs in the world could die at the same time and the human race would still survive. If all bees died, thats another story.
But Im sure your general understanding of ecology will allow you to demonstrate why that wouldnt be the case.
Was there ever a follow up to this debate? I wonder what his stance currently is, other than he still feels no moral obligation to take animals into consideration.
Destiny said he spent more time thinking about it here ua-cam.com/video/0TofHR-brgs/v-deo.html He even mentions that he got DESTROYED in this debate! (not really but he said that she had a more ironed out position on veganism than him)
Also known as that one time Destiny got destroyed for real.
This was wholesome.
yeah just dont look at the chat, wtf
Interested in learning more about this lady's life lmao
Lemme guess: Destiny's going to do some SOCIAL CONTRACT memes to make an incredibly contrived argument that he thinks removes all moral considerstion from animals and therefore allows him to keep eating animals?
no he lost.
IM Wercs you can be a vegan and care for the enviorment and live ib a privileged society those of self contradicting
IM Wercs you cant be in Favor of veganism and live in a privileged society and care for the enviroment at the same time. Those are contradicting. You would have to sacrifice one of those to have the other. If you want to live in a privileged society then you have to damage the enviroment and eat animals. Every aninals well being is beings interfered with by the society you live in and you canr get around this unless you live in another planet
Alexander its impossible to live in a sustainable society and claim to be a vegan and care about animal life unless you live on another planet
Alexander there is no fallocy with what i said im simply responding to what vegans say when they claim that sentience is importnant on what we pur moral consideration on. I know your not a vegan but im attacking their point of view because they are picking and choosing what animals they value more than others. And its arbituary because the notion of sentience is ridiculous and its The arguments they use against meat eaters for eating meat when we dont have moral consideration for chickens cows and pigs i can say the same thing to them when they kill millions of animals who try to eat the plants and interfere with crops and and all the instects they kill and all the cities they build over ecosystems. With such a claim like that that vegans are forced to make the only consistant point of view which is an all or nothing senerio because they are injecting a moral obligation when talking to meat eaters which poisons the well and it fundamentally opens the door for the all or nothing senerio when i acknowledge the arbitrary notion of how important sentience is with insects and other animals. Its fundamentally different in your case when your talking about medicine for people. With that whatever the net positive is for that tbat would probably be best for society. And your not injecting some type of immorality for the people who dont get the medicine. With vegans they HAVE to care about any bring who has the capabilty of having sentience or their argument falls apart
drug cartels arent the entire industry. theyre a very small source, especially when youre talking about shrooms or lsd or any kind of psychedelics. most are locally grown.
"So you're now consequentialist that does not care for the consequence"
Idk right I see his point in terms of an environmental impact. Does destiny have the capacity to change other people into being more people? Certainly in a strictly logical sense Destiny's moral kitchen doesn't make sense but there is a level of abstraction within this food system that does discourage consumer power in terms of veganism, no?
First I don’t agree with her but if you think about it deeply even if you bought weed from a non cartel wouldn’t the economy grow for both
Not directly and thats her point buying weed from a dealer who somehow is linked to the cartel in anyway supports them and supports them directly. If you buy from dispensaries which isnt that hard or from a dealer who grows his own you arent contributing directly or in any meaningful way.
Steven thinks his belief systems are consistent while in reality he doesn't even know which belief systems he has.
I'll take a 1v5 of her 5 times before I watch Tonka scream ad homonyms and talk about how he'll fight him.
You should make a podcast for your debates if you don't already have one.
there are whales who protect seals fron orcas and humans from sharks
Regarding the people in India doing the scamming, it's hard to pinpoint culpability for a different reason: many of the scammers in India got there by being tricked into a really shitty contract where they owe the company for thousands.
He actually for the first time got destroyed. Non meme style.
Ethical shroom use? Grow them yourself, super easy. Just buy a grow kit, set and forget and you are golden in a month or two. Still have shrooms left from my covid lockdown grow.
It sounds like she got a cancerous lung removal under water.
"It is morally neutral for us to enslave Mexico?"
D-man: "Yeah, I guess so."
destiny actually did get destroyed in this debate
Well I now know Destiny is pro psychedelics. Peace to you, brother. Spread the word.
The chat is kinda dumb here
State-of-the-art machine learning algorithms are still basically just a bunch of matrix multiplications. Most of them are deterministic systems, they don't exactly get a life of their own. The probabilistic ones just inject random noise to get a measure of uncertainty, but turn out to be equivalent to statistical methods that have been available for decades, it's just that now we can run higher dimensional models than before. The argument that we should apply morality to fancy regression models is absurd.
ladyvanda Same applies to humans. Probably.
Woopboop 😍
Galloping Destiny! 1:37:31
THE ENDS JUSTIFIES THE MEMES
Has a destiny already admitted that veganism is morally right he just doesn't switch because he loves meat too much? It was a good debate but I'm not really sure why this debate keeps happening honestly
"I just lost a lot of fans too, but I'm ok with that." :D :D
Sound quality makes it unwatchable :-(
WoopBoop is adorable
this girl did to destiny what destiny did to amos yee
The problem with being concerned about the ethics of the products you are buying is that exploitation is rampant everywhere. You would have to go full fucking unibomber and live off the land to avoid it.
Waiting for the next Video.....
Until this girl's "We could invade Mexico" argument I thought she was doing a very logical and intelligent building of an argument.
As soon as she made that argument and all of her points and arguments after it were super irrational and defensive. Disappointing
The worst part of this debate was the last 5 minutes. The person is kind of talking out of their ass about AI. There is no reason your neural net (what they're talking about) can't have randomized elements post-training (for "personality" or something). Nobody would try to argue that a neural network spread across multiple hardware units was many individuals in the first place, but a duplication of a network many times, even if all instances would behave entirely deterministically, provided the same inputs, would all be individual.
Has there been a follow up debate?
She sure dodged that question pretty hard at 46:20
Don't all children require training or else they become feral children? I dont really see a way to reconcile this under this model.
Destiny's argument wasn't that humans are naturally moral, it was that, when placed in a normal "human" environment, healthy humans always become moral and gain an ability to reciprocate values. On the other hand, animals don't gain that in a normal, healthy animal environment.
Foxhound ah thanks for the clarification.
Shrooms? Destiny,since when are you an anprim?
Potentially Tired wtf is an anprim?
Brian Tan Anarcho Primitivist. Civilization is the bane of society
Potentially Tired doing shrooms doesnt mean you're an anprim lol wtf??
I'm allergic to soy and tofu and all varieties of nuts, is produce the only vegan food I can eat?
No - there's seitan, beans, legumes, seeds, lentils, and many packaged products.
Wren
And these would provide enough nutrients for someone who works outside and burns a lot of calories?
1Nostrand1 Easily. Also avocados and dates are good calorie sources.
Allergic to avocados unfortunately. Reason I ask is because I'm going to attempt a vegan diet. I still need to do the proper research this weekend and consult my allergist but I want to give it an honest and sincere attempt just to see how it goes. I'm curious to see how I'll fair as a construction worker with a vegan diet. Thanks for the advice.
Awkward silence got destroyed in this debate.
Yeah even though I'm not vegan I don't think it's possible to agree against it I think it's better for him to not be entirely consistent on his beliefs rather than changing them on the fly xD
Cartoonish "you don't NEED to do drugs" ignores reality. If not, why do those people do it, then? People don't need to relax. People don't need to escape their problems. People can survive without ever venting, relaxing or enjoying even a moment of their lives. But they want those things.
Sounds like a stupid argument. Buying drugs because I have no other way to relax does not make me responsible for whatever murders any drug cartel commits. Just as buying a steak doesn't make me responsible for the immoral activities of the meat industry. It may have a small effect, yes, but even if I hadn't bought that steak or those drugs, they'd still exist.
Ah, y'know what? It did turn out to be an interesting debate. However, it was rather dry, and I think the lady is a little too naive to think that Destiny is going to make such life-altering dietary changes because of her word. Still, I take back my previous comment about her being an idiot.
Are you debating Melissa Villaseñor? That sounds like her.
The training is the training of the attachment to the human, without the presence of humans the pig would not have been able to even recognize the human much less rescue it's life, probably not a pot belly pig but many animals in the wild (such as boars) are liable to gut you on contact.
SHE DID IT
There are dogs that can help people stand up... there are dogs that are trained to use their body as a support mechanism for people to use to stand. Like a prop. I have seen a video of a great dane holding a rope in it's teeth and the person grabbed the rope and the dog pulled to help him stand. So I believe a pig could be trained to do this as well.
Why give people a deadline to improve on and develop their opinions?