The Mongols Are Actually Scared Of The Byzantines
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
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Age of Empires 4 guides, AoE4 casts and gameplay are here for all civilzations, including the Byzantines, Japanese, English, Chinese, Zhu Xi's Legacy, HRE, Order of the Dragon, Mongols, Delhi Sultanate, Rus, French, Jean d'Arc, Abbasid, Ayyubids, Ottomans & Malians.
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#ageofempires #ageofempires4 #aoe4
I have finally figured out how to manage my expectations when watching Drongo: if the video title implies that one side will win, 100% it's the other side gonna win.
It's a brand new expansion 🥺
In a brand new patch
Of brand new 1453😂
Cathaphracts are huge. With their charge they can reliable get on the backline like we saw often in this game
Had loue rewalled the middle entrance and put a keep there, he wouldn't have had issues with these raids that keep bypassing his units
This one is a good demonstration of why you shouldn't overestimate the longbow's performance against armored units. And even very good Byzantine players are still autopicking the western merc contract even when it's the worst of the three in the matchup and spamming longbows even when landsknechts would be better, it shows how the civ still hasn't been fully figured out yet.
Also a good demonstration that walling off half the map with undefended palisades doesn't really do anything. A few units can make a hole somewhere and then they're in your unwalled base before they take any damage. Walls are largely pointless alone, you need to use them together with defensive buildings and/or units.
Stop it already. Byzantines do poorly across all ranks and still you nimwits keep saying "hurr durr they just haven't been FIGURED OUT YET". The problem isn't that they haven't been figured out. The problem is that you are too slow to figure out that they suck.
Palisades provide you with map control, awareness and time for little wood investment. You see the best players in the world building them in almost every single match. And they don't "combine" them with defensive structures nor units. You have a very strange subjective opinion.
@@JamesCh. they don't provide you with actual map control if you use them like that. Sure they can serve as a tripwire and temporarily block stuff like relic-collecting monks or traders, but if you don't respond to that tripwire bring broken in any way until the raiders get to your base then it doesn't really get you anything. If those same walls are actually tight around your base though? That time that the raiders have to take torching down the walls is spent getting shot at by any ranged units you have in your base and maybe your TC, and your villagers are right there to repair the wall and maybe put up an outpost.
It's definitely not every high level match that someone builds long palisades across the whole map like that, and they often do wall off areas in the way I'm advocating. Walls and towers are common RTS mechanics and using them together instead of separately lets you put the cheap high HP of the wall in front of the ranged-damage-dealing tower, which allows them to be more effective than the sum of their parts. Walls were very fiddly to place and unreliable in this game until the recent wall update solved some of the issues of stuff like chopthroughs and I think it's led to AoE4 players who got used to avoiding using them in high level matches neglecting some of the fundamentals about how to use them in an RTS.
I agree, for some reason Longbows men perform surprising well even against armor or cav. The only thing that flattens Longbows are mangonels.
@@AlphaSections I was making the opposite point, longbows only seem like they're effective against armored units until they all die. If you spam longbows against a composition like keshik/MaA then you're going to wind up with an army that has half the effective DPS of the opponent's, less than half the HP, and not enough move speed to run away, you'll feel like you're doing well because you'll kill a few units as they move toward you but when they reach you it'll be over in a few seconds.
In this match the decisive engagement was at 24:30, the mangonel contributed very little and only got one hit off before it was destroyed, but then most of the longbows were killed by men-at-arms. The only reason any longbows at all were able to retreat was that the keshiks were distracted by the villagers who showed up to attempt a keep drop. Drongo was begging the Byzantine player to make crossbows and he finally did, but it wound up being too late to recover. As I see it, overinvestment in longbows against armored units is a very common cause of lost matches for the Byzantines in these casts.
Cats don’t feel like they’re worth the increased cost compared to knights for the reasons you said. They’re slow (for cav), no charge, trample feels…kinda strange? Only impactful if you’re trampling with quite a few of them, but they’re so hard to mass because they cost so much. I’d like to see them get buffed in some way. Either cost reduction or speed increased maybe? Not sure what the solution is.
I’ve also thought that maybe I’m just using them wrong. Trying to use them the same way I would knights and that’s maybe not how they’re supposed to be used and I haven’t found what they’re good for yet? Idk, I’ll wait til someone better than me (which is most people) figures that out 😅😅
They aren't worth the cost and they actually become more cost inefficient in Imperial relative to knights.
Cat to Elite Cat gets +45 HP, +1 armor and +5 damage. That is +12,5% HP and +18% damage.
Knight to Elite Knight gets +40 HP, +1 armor and +5 damage. That is +17% HP and +20% damage. From a relative perspective again it means that the knight gets 36% more HP out of his upgrade (17/12,5) and 11% more damage (20/18) than the Cata does.
Catas main problem is that their damage output is pathetic. They are too slow, they don't get standard charge, their damage per hit is only +3 over knights (27 vs 24 and 32 vs 29 respectively) and their trample is situational as you need to hit at least 4 units per cataphract to have the same impact as standard charge, and even then you spread the damage instead of concentrating it. All this despite costing 180/150 resources (compared to 140/100).
90 more res idk tight@@johanlassen6448
so heres what i do- im not a byz main but i have been trying my hand. i use eastern so---> keshiks mixed in i use a timing push just a few CATS like 3-5 if i can get more great but i dont push it- i just run keshisks to make up the charge difference and then back it up with lemons or ghulams even. i like using ghulams because they can build your siege in the field still which feels really good idk i havent played enough im not a pro i just like using keshiks to back up CATS
another thing you have to consider is that with CATS you have access to camels too... so while CATS seem weak... they could also be paired with camel riders. so... yes knights get better value at their upgrades breakthroughs- but what if you minus 20% im not saying CATS should depends on camels to be better than knights for that cost but... something to consider
@@APcraft747 What you are saying about Camels is not an advantage to Catas. It just means Camels weaken enemy cavalry. Would do the same when combined with any cavalry.
So yes there are units in the Byzantine roster that can create synergy effects (sort of), but that goes for all rosters.
Khaganate palace looked pretty solid there
btw Yes, Teardrop Shields boost Limitanei movement speed by 15%
Cataphract has great synergy with Cistern of the first Hill if you opt for a fast castle strategy. The idea is pretty much the same with french: get free kills and heal up, eventually overwhelm the opponent and camp TC/production. Even without the landmark, cataharcts are still valuable cuz their ability allow them to ignore unit block and snipe out key targets during important fights. For anyone who play a bit french/rus should know, using gold cavalry directly as the front line&charge into the enemy is never cost effective regardless of any civlization, which is not the problem of cataphracts.
one day drongo will discover how to pronounce limit ah nei
but not this day
17:07 I think your color blind bro. teal and yellow are not similar. I thought you were gonna say teal and blue.
Yeah tbh they're not even close lol
I never thought to dive the Keshiks so far back, therefor forcing portions of the enemies units to defend their vills . Most people would have used the Keshiks in the main fights, but this is a much smarter way to go about it.
as a mongol player the Byzantines scare me still
What does the springals emplacement mean in what or which building and what kind of strat he is talking about? Thank you ❤
Cataphracts are expensive to the point that they become difficult to mass, and as strong as the unit is, I will always take a mass of knights over a support squad of cataphracts
If you are trying to mass cataphracts I think you have the wrong idea.
Now I know you were just saying how you _can't_ mass cataphracts, that was like your whole point, but I'll repeat myself: bunching up in large fights, as support or no, _really_ isn't their tactical niche. I think a better comparison vs knights would be their raid unit potential given their abilities and statblock.
mass elite cats + triumph destroys everything
@@Palozon That just means cataphracts have less utility than knights because knights are also great raiding units, but can also be easily massed in order to be part of your main army
@@CloudCuckooCountry versatility, not utility, but I see your point.
good day 😊
15:27 I much prefer the original civilization colors. Don't change the colors in future uploads to red and blue please.
Love your vids, have a nice day!
Another day, another Byzantine loss. When will this civ get boosted?
I think it would be interesting if all knights had the active ability to charge instead of the passive
You made 1700 vids lol
As a South African I don't approve of the accent 😂
Byzantine winrate vs Mongols: 47,3%.
I mean... yeah its better than against a lot of other civs. But still below 50%.
Also... who the fuck goes for Palatinate School? All that does is make your massively cost inefficient unique units somewhat cost inefficient instead.
Bro i know you are dissapointed with byzantines, but i truly feel you are not making an effort to make them work for you. I mean, I made them work and Im not that good at this game, so im sure you can make them work too
@@patriciogonzalez9329 Eh, no. I have not shelled out 15 USD for a scam.
@@johanlassen6448 soooo you are endlessly complaining about a civ you haven't played? Don't you see the problem with that?
@@patriciogonzalez9329 No, I don't. If I want to buy a car and see that it is a piece of shit I will complain about it. I won't first buy to "earn" the right to complain, that would be retarded. The point is that until the devs deal with this shit civ I am not shelling out money for it.
@@patriciogonzalez9329💯
Drongo, why you dont cast French games?
Everyone just loving those Byzantines.
they surrender before he loads in
Because they're lame
Thats the reason im afraid to play aoe4: i cant deal with raids and it pisses me off :(
It's a matter of practice. Being afraid is one thing, but you know what and why you are afraid of, you can always be better if you want to.
I love rushing, it's one of my main strategies, and I do it because I hate being on the defense side of a match, but along the way you find people, civs and build orders that force you to defend, and you learn, and you adapt.
Maybe a practice partner could help? The game is fun, and I do know that queue anxiety is a thing, but I truly hope you find a way to enjoy the game like others do. (We could play some customs too, if you want to get some practice in, I'm not a pro player, started playing a couple of months ago :) )
It is funny that almost no top players of aoe3 or aoe2 sticked with aoe4
How can age of empires 3 and 4 be worse than age of empires 2 and 1 😮
how can a baboon type such a literate question 😮
@@AussieDrongothanks drongo for all the awesome content. Sorry there's so many negative comments sometimes! Hope they don't get to you at all!