Great video and very informative. If -one day- you would make a video with M278 showing step by step how to change timing chain adjuster and valve that would be great for DIY'ers and you would be a legend in UA-cam :)
Nicely done video Tasos ! I have a 2013 ML350 with an M276 engine with the Loud noise on startup but only very intermittently. This happens more often on warm re-starts rather than initial cold starts, very odd. I know of the LI doc LI05.10-P-056435 but am doubtful this will repair my car as the noise is very LOUD as a cam adjuster would cause. I am considering my next move which may be the oil pressure check valve repair and see if it solves the problem...
Great insights from a man who knows what he's talking about. But i have changed my chain with the camshaft exhausters guiders and tensioners and tow new turbo's. Still the start is very noise but after two minutes all is well, it's got 311k on the clock. Do you know what i can check more?
Hi tasos here in Australia I have the m278 the camshaft adjuster did fits the new timing chain I have to replace all of them as will I notice that the teeth on the camshaft adjusters are not going in the new timing chain because they little thick to the skirt of the new timing chain so the teeth not going through to the end in it . Thank you buddy 🤞
HI Tasos ! hoping all is well! I just checked my timing chain through the oil fill hole and my chain looks like the new one with the 3 links but its not black its silver, my car is a 2014 E63s USA spec,my timing chain tensioners were also changed last year from the tapping noise ,thanks for explaining this, that makes perfect sense why the tensioners would make noise until the oil pressure built up.
I checked mine I defiantly have the unrevised first version chain in my engine, very disappointed, now I just checked Mercedes part catalog and guess what, since two weeks ago they revised that already revised tensioner in your hand ( part# 4700) you been comparing it to the first version that’s causes all these cold start noises that people hate with part# 0064, now like you always say, Go figure.
@@SlickJeff2020 Benz has a kit with 3 check-valves but based on what Tasos is showing, the oil is really leaking directly from the poor tensioner (steel piston sliding in an aluminium bore: genius!)
so to fix cold start (low/delayed oil pressure) timing tensioner rattle... dont bother with check valves BUT CHANGE TENSIONERS for the latest UPDATED VERSION. The original version was made to leak [big aluminum bore and a small piston to guarantee oil leak] The newer version limit oil leak without adding any seals by having a closer tensioner piston to bore adjustment. Question: why do they purposely make everything borderline junk??😂
Working on a 2014 GL450 with adjuster/Tensioner issues. It has the updated chain and engine has never been appart. This is a USA market vehicle. Thanks for the videos. My Greek boss says efharisto!
Tasos, how are you my orthodox brother ( hi from Georiga) wanted to ask you, im working on M278 to replace cam tensioners, i get rattling noise when starting the car, do you know if i need to allign cam to 40", or can i just remove the tensioner ? Thanks
Hi Tasos, thank you for the excelent explanation. I want to change timing chain on my mercedes cls 63, is it better to remove the engine or to remove only the front of the car? Thanks
I don't think you need to remove the engine for a timing chain. Note-- haven't done it yet, and I guess it depends on the car, but have worked on other timing gear (5.0L Jaguar SC).
Yah-Suu master Tasos: based on your smart video is this correct that "startup rattling" is caused only by old *tensioner* and fixed with only updated tensioner. (No need to replace new chain& gears, correct?) The new tensioner you show us has a tighter gap to keep oil pressure better, right? 🤗
Tasos Moschatos i thought when you repleace camshaft to the new one it will silve the problem . I thought m156 original camshaft was just made from wrong material or something . But yeah how sad
CarGuy TV The M156 production lasted 9 years. It doesn't matter if the car is a 2006 MY or 2015 C63 507 (the final M156 engine) camshaft and tappets issues are still occuring. Heck, I've seen valves hitting the pistons more so on later M156 engines, due to damaged tappets.
i can confirm this for a 2012 m278 at an official Mercedes service shop in Germany. Old Chain checked ok, new tensioners and check valves. Timing diagnosis using Xentry proved totally fine and not close to any limits from the degrees at the cam adjusters. 68' km on the clock.
@@ruhelamin1952 Actually, swapping the tensioners does require less work and effort. Here is a link to the MB procedure: ua-cam.com/video/i3Quf8enhSk/v-deo.html Plus, if the old chain is okay, why change something that is working as it should. Generally, as an owner, i feel that taking care of the issue is good but depends on how you use the engine. I cannot clearly say what makes the difference, but most cars with m278 that are simply driven will show a worn timing chain between 150 and 230 thousand kilometers. I have seen plenty of videos from people owning a m278 car and that do have the rattle on startup but do not even say something about it. Like, "it has always sounded that way" so why complain. If i wasn't informed about what to look for when buying a m278 car i wouldn't have noticed either. So, long story short, and as Mercedes state it in their documents for the procedure, most likely you will be fine (for a normal lifespan up to 200.000km i assume). Of course, as an enthusiast, i wanted to have everything done so that now with 72.000km on the clock i can be sure that the engine will stay in top shape for years to come.
Hi Tasos, I want to ask you a question. I have 2012 cls63 using M157. I noticed when it passed 20,000Miles it start jerking on cold start. When the cold start end after you start the car, and pull out from parking, when you really really touch the throttle, the RPM start going up and down really crazy, from 800-1400rpm jumping. This happen only after cold start, and sometimes it also happen when you go from deadstop let say from the red light. I have a tune on my car, already change the air filter, spark plug but the problem still exist. Do you know whats wrong? is it of the middle balancer and already loose timing chain with the tensioner? because merdeces is known to have a balancer issue. I seen many AMG owner with tune or stock is having this problem, i would say most of them have this issue when the car is 20k miles and up. please share your though. thanks for the video!
Hello. I also noticed my car does this. when I start it cold and drive off I just press easily on the accelerator and it goes away. Its not too bad for me now
lucky you it will be cheap, here: oily crankcase breather causes dirty throttle body to mess up the idle position. The Fix: - clean throttle bore and flap - service crankcase breather Furthermore: all the oil that got sucked in created "carbon" deposits on intake valves... So concider removing your intake plenum and cleaning valves when doing an early spark plugs change. I wonder if master Tasos approves my diagnosis/repair assessment..? 👍🏻
Tasos Moschatos from that video, it sounds like these one way valves can help both new and old style tensioners if the 157 is making rattle noise at cold start, is that correct ?
Bayhas Kana the M157/M278 engines from 2015 and up they already have this valves, the engines with the old timing chain doesn't have these valves unfortunately.
Tasos Moschatos great to know! Sounds like I need to take my upper cover off and see what version tensioners I have exactly, it’s a US 2014 GL63, I can see I have newer chain through oil filler, and EPC is saying I have newer tensioners... yet I get the 5sec rattle at cold start, will see
Excellent, just buying an M157 and glad to have found your channel
Really informative video, there isn’t much out there on the m278. I’m glad you’re sharing your experiences with it here on YT.
Thank so you much for these videos Tasos.
Great video and very informative. If -one day- you would make a video with M278 showing step by step how to change timing chain adjuster and valve that would be great for DIY'ers and you would be a legend in UA-cam :)
Excellent video
Great video
Nicely done video Tasos ! I have a 2013 ML350 with an M276 engine with the Loud noise on startup but only very intermittently. This happens more often on warm re-starts rather than initial cold starts, very odd. I know of the LI doc LI05.10-P-056435 but am doubtful this will repair my car as the noise is very LOUD as a cam adjuster would cause. I am considering my next move which may be the oil pressure check valve repair and see if it solves the problem...
Nice amigo!
Great insights from a man who knows what he's talking about. But i have changed my chain with the camshaft exhausters guiders and tensioners and tow new turbo's. Still the start is very noise but after two minutes all is well, it's got 311k on the clock. Do you know what i can check more?
Hi tasos here in Australia I have the m278 the camshaft adjuster did fits the new timing chain I have to replace all of them as will I notice that the teeth on the camshaft adjusters are not going in the new timing chain because they little thick to the skirt of the new timing chain so the teeth not going through to the end in it . Thank you buddy 🤞
HI Tasos ! hoping all is well! I just checked my timing chain through the oil fill hole and my chain looks like the new one with the 3 links but its not black its silver, my car is a 2014 E63s USA spec,my timing chain tensioners were also changed last year from the tapping noise ,thanks for explaining this, that makes perfect sense why the tensioners would make noise until the oil pressure built up.
Antimatter Hi, busy like always but all is well thanks for asking.
I checked mine I defiantly have the unrevised first version chain in my engine, very disappointed, now I just checked Mercedes part catalog and guess what, since two weeks ago they revised that already revised tensioner in your hand ( part# 4700) you been comparing it to the first version that’s causes all these cold start noises that people hate with part# 0064, now like you always say, Go figure.
@@SlickJeff2020 Benz has a kit with 3 check-valves but based on what Tasos is showing, the oil is really leaking directly from the poor tensioner (steel piston sliding in an aluminium bore: genius!)
so to fix cold start (low/delayed oil pressure) timing tensioner rattle... dont bother with check valves BUT CHANGE TENSIONERS for the latest UPDATED VERSION.
The original version was made to leak [big aluminum bore and a small piston to guarantee oil leak]
The newer version limit oil leak without adding any seals by having a closer tensioner piston to bore adjustment.
Question: why do they purposely make everything borderline junk??😂
@@glasser2819 is the oil leak a serious issue? It would be a shame if you have new chain and tensioner but get oil leak and have to replace tensioner.
Thank you very mach
Working on a 2014 GL450 with adjuster/Tensioner issues. It has the updated chain and engine has never been appart. This is a USA market vehicle. Thanks for the videos. My Greek boss says efharisto!
I think 2014 USA CLS also has the updated chain but not the return valves. Am unsure about the tensioners.
Tasos, how are you my orthodox brother ( hi from Georiga) wanted to ask you, im working on M278 to replace cam tensioners, i get rattling noise when starting the car, do you know if i need to allign cam to 40", or can i just remove the tensioner ? Thanks
Is it possible you can find a new chain on a car but old tensioners?
Hi Tasos, thank you for the excelent explanation.
I want to change timing chain on my mercedes cls 63, is it better to remove the engine or to remove only the front of the car? Thanks
I don't think you need to remove the engine for a timing chain. Note-- haven't done it yet, and I guess it depends on the car, but have worked on other timing gear (5.0L Jaguar SC).
I have a question .. with the new chain and tensioner .. does the m278 still rattle for a quick second on startup . Even with the new check valve
Yah-Suu master Tasos:
based on your smart video is this correct that "startup rattling" is caused only by old *tensioner* and fixed with only updated tensioner.
(No need to replace new chain& gears, correct?)
The new tensioner you show us has a tighter gap to keep oil pressure better, right?
🤗
the tensioner, correct, but also check valves for the cylinder head so that the oil cannot flow back or away from the tensioner.
Hello Tasos, I am working on M276. Please let me know if timing procedure is same as M278 .Thanks
Maybe some one has an part number for the old timing chain on m278?
добрый день . подскажите как проверить метки грм на собранном моторе мерседес гл . мотор 278. 4.7турбо
How much does this job cost?
Thank you
Hello does the m157 and m278 share the same timing chain components ? As In I keep finding kits for m278 when I search m157 timing chain kit
Where are you located?
Wait I taught m278 2014 and up they have new chain?
Timing gears and overall build of timing chain was much better on M156 but ofc in newer engine they had to change and make something worse
CarGuy TV hi, at least they find the problem and they fix it but with the m156 they didn't do nothing with the camshafts issue. Thanks
Tasos Moschatos i thought when you repleace camshaft to the new one it will silve the problem . I thought m156 original camshaft was just made from wrong material or something . But yeah how sad
CarGuy TV The M156 production lasted 9 years. It doesn't matter if the car is a 2006 MY or 2015 C63 507 (the final M156 engine) camshaft and tappets issues are still occuring. Heck, I've seen valves hitting the pistons more so on later M156 engines, due to damaged tappets.
Hi Tasos, Can you install the new tensioner if you have old timing chain?
Yes
i can confirm this for a 2012 m278 at an official Mercedes service shop in Germany. Old Chain checked ok, new tensioners and check valves. Timing diagnosis using Xentry proved totally fine and not close to any limits from the degrees at the cam adjusters. 68' km on the clock.
But why? Labour is same so isn't it better to just get new chain whilst there?
@@ruhelamin1952 Actually, swapping the tensioners does require less work and effort. Here is a link to the MB procedure: ua-cam.com/video/i3Quf8enhSk/v-deo.html
Plus, if the old chain is okay, why change something that is working as it should.
Generally, as an owner, i feel that taking care of the issue is good but depends on how you use the engine. I cannot clearly say what makes the difference, but most cars with m278 that are simply driven will show a worn timing chain between 150 and 230 thousand kilometers. I have seen plenty of videos from people owning a m278 car and that do have the rattle on startup but do not even say something about it. Like, "it has always sounded that way" so why complain.
If i wasn't informed about what to look for when buying a m278 car i wouldn't have noticed either.
So, long story short, and as Mercedes state it in their documents for the procedure, most likely you will be fine (for a normal lifespan up to 200.000km i assume). Of course, as an enthusiast, i wanted to have everything done so that now with 72.000km on the clock i can be sure that the engine will stay in top shape for years to come.
My car has no codes...only on a cold start makes chain noise
Hi Tasos, I want to ask you a question. I have 2012 cls63 using M157. I noticed when it passed 20,000Miles it start jerking on cold start. When the cold start end after you start the car, and pull out from parking, when you really really touch the throttle, the RPM start going up and down really crazy, from 800-1400rpm jumping. This happen only after cold start, and sometimes it also happen when you go from deadstop let say from the red light. I have a tune on my car, already change the air filter, spark plug but the problem still exist. Do you know whats wrong? is it of the middle balancer and already loose timing chain with the tensioner? because merdeces is known to have a balancer issue. I seen many AMG owner with tune or stock is having this problem, i would say most of them have this issue when the car is 20k miles and up. please share your though. thanks for the video!
Hello. I also noticed my car does this. when I start it cold and drive off I just press easily on the accelerator and it goes away. Its not too bad for me now
lucky you it will be cheap, here:
oily crankcase breather causes dirty throttle body to mess up the idle position.
The Fix:
- clean throttle bore and flap
- service crankcase breather
Furthermore: all the oil that got sucked in created "carbon" deposits on intake valves... So concider removing your intake plenum and cleaning valves when doing an early spark plugs change.
I wonder if master Tasos approves my diagnosis/repair assessment..?
👍🏻
I also have that "problem" it only happens when the engine is cold. No need to worry, when it gets warm it drives smoothly. My car is stock btw.
Bicycle chain👈😜
Tasos, This is the process and valves everyone is talking about
ua-cam.com/video/lTJv0Snl858/v-deo.html
Bayhas Kana yes this is for the timing chain tensioner to keep some oil pressure inside when you turn off the engine
Tasos Moschatos from that video, it sounds like these one way valves can help both new and old style tensioners if the 157 is making rattle noise at cold start, is that correct ?
Bayhas Kana the M157/M278 engines from 2015 and up they already have this valves, the engines with the old timing chain doesn't have these valves unfortunately.
Tasos Moschatos great to know! Sounds like I need to take my upper cover off and see what version tensioners I have exactly, it’s a US 2014 GL63, I can see I have newer chain through oil filler, and EPC is saying I have newer tensioners... yet I get the 5sec rattle at cold start,
will see
@@bayhaskana7439 so what did you find? What's making the rattle