I have e63 177 , and had prior gen before , new engine feels and reacts like a next generation of engine it’s so much better for me, it likes to rev hi and keeps on going .
I don't think statements like this are fair. The transmission has a huge part in how the car feels and I suspect you are not comparing Apples with Apples. If you had the two on and engine dyno and were comparing, fair enough but in different chassis with different hardware AND software the comparison isn't that valid.
The 177 I had albeit far less power than the 157 was far more responsive to the throttle pedal. The 157 (dynoed stock at 630bhp and 850nm of torque at 36k mile ) feels very powerful all the way to the red line but my modest 500hp c63a 177 engine ran out of ideas closer to the red line. Ofcourse the transmission on the 177 was absolutely brilliant and the set up of the car was far more modern and the car was far more playful
If you sleeve the M157 and put aftermarket forged pistons and rods, are those new rods and pistons changing the play from bottom to top (on the wrist pin) like an M177 or is that not possible?
Thanks for this especially including the bmw N/S63. I have been confused why people are bending rods so much with N/S63 when they're not terribly designed. Some make 800whp, some barely can make 650 Your english actually makes it clearer for me to listen to, I appreciate hearing you explain it different ways, no need to apologize
Idk why they chose the stupid silitec surface for the M157 when they already had it figured out on the m156 with the LDS surface. That alone would get them to 200tkm imo. They updated it on the m278 but never on the m157 and idk why
To what did they update the cylinder walls on m278 and from what year? I am looking into buying a cls550 2014 and a little worried about that problem with wall scoring.
@@nerijusjuska645 2014 could have the problematic one. I know they changed it from 2015 onwards. Tbh I'd rather stay away from it if it has the silitec stuff. These problems usually occur around the 100-130tkm mark. The m278 has a couple of other problems too but idk THAT much about it. If you pick a 2015 model you should be fine, they might be a bit more expensive than the earlier models but not having to replace a core engine for 25-30k in a couple of years is worth it imo
@@derLeomitmBenzer been looking for info about this engine, but never saw anywhere written that they updated cylinder walls coating from silitec to anything else. The one i am looking at is 97k km. There arent many options nowadays to buy a low mileage 550 and even this new info makes it harder.
@@nerijusjuska645 yeah its hard to find written down informations. I only know it from mechanic friends a couple of YT videos and stuff i read in forums. And i know the pain of finding the right car, i was suuper happy to find my C63 from a army guy stationed here in germany. Full service record and no hard driving. Here in germany they get f'ed to shit by the usual suspects. Keep your eyes open. Low milage isn't everything imo. If the engine can take it a higher milage one with good service is sometimes better
@@derLeomitmBenzer 25-30k for engine replacement? Thats more than i would pay for the car im buying :D. Here where i live i know that full repair for the engine with sleeves and all that is around 10k euro. of course not sure about the longevity of the repair, havent experienced that myself. Anyway if i am going to buy the car i will do a pre purchase inspection, maybe the mechanic will tell me something. The owner when i met him to inspect the car showed me how the car drives, zero complaints, gears shifting smothly no weird engine noises. nothing to point out wrong about it. just that front of the engine has some oil leaks i didnt like that, and one more thing i didnt like that he has never done trans oil change. And the way he drives showed me that i think the car was abused. well atleast he says that he changed oil every 7k km with liquimoly 10w60.
m177 > m113k > Late 2015+ m278 > m157 The late 278 over the m157 because smaller bore, longer piston skirt and better bore liner. But it still had potentially bent rods throughout m157 and 278 production apparently.
Tasks , have you done RMS replacement? Rear seal that leeks oil doe w213 e63 and similar ? Some say oil separator is somehow related to it . Wanted to check if that was something you’ve seen.
It will be interesting to see how the 177 motors last for long term durability and very high mileages (stock application) I think the hot side motors make too much heat in the V and will cook all wires and seals?
Interesting observation, but you have to take under consideration very good heat control\efficiency of the radiators. I never had any increase of the temp over 92'C of the cooland and oil never over 104'C in S63 (tuned to 778bhp). It's well protected with heatshield pannels too, it looks like a tunnel to move hot air behind the engine, around the gearbox down the car on the road. In the G63 sometimes oil is 108'C, but i think it's less aerodynamic, hence this temps 🤷🏻♂️
950bhp on the wheels 😱😱 on stock interiors ! Do we need to check at some point the pipe sucking oil from the pan? I saw video where BMW M5 got this pipe stuck with gunk and engine full with oil suffered starvation of oil 😢
I think he had mentioned in other videos . Literally… STOCK. Maybe exhaust and intakes but after watching all of his videos I’m not touching mine . A tune with Weistec down pipes is enough to bend these connecting rods. My ML63 AMG is the “ performance “ package which comes with 18 PSI Boost from factory compared to the “non-performance “ which is 14 PSI. and I think it’s 560 hp at 540ft- tq ? I believe that’s max for these rods. I was going to tune mine but i don’t want 5,000 miles of “Fun” driving before I have to buy a new engine lol
@@austinmuncrief252 perhaps you mean m157? I think the m177 is the best modern AMG engine for “RELIABLE “ big power…. Like 800hp mark is no problem I think based on what I see. Lets see after 150k miles.
M113k pistons are not necessarily much stronger because they are still Hypereutectic (not forged). However, the m113k pistons are shorter for lower compression. The wrist pins and connecting rods are way stronger on m113k vs m113 NA.
Great explanation! You should do a M113K/M157/M177 side by side comparison.
M156 too
I know you will love to see the thermal/stress images/XRays of those pistons side by side under load/cold start/etc. Love your videos brother.
157 was kind of a stumble from an engineering point of view it seems... but they caught their balance with the 177 before fully face planting 😆
I have e63 177 , and had prior gen before , new engine feels and reacts like a next generation of engine it’s so much better for me, it likes to rev hi and keeps on going .
I don't think statements like this are fair. The transmission has a huge part in how the car feels and I suspect you are not comparing Apples with Apples.
If you had the two on and engine dyno and were comparing, fair enough but in different chassis with different hardware AND software the comparison isn't that valid.
The 177 I had albeit far less power than the 157 was far more responsive to the throttle pedal. The 157 (dynoed stock at 630bhp and 850nm of torque at 36k mile ) feels very powerful all the way to the red line but my modest 500hp c63a 177 engine ran out of ideas closer to the red line. Ofcourse the transmission on the 177 was absolutely brilliant and the set up of the car was far more modern and the car was far more playful
Which one do you think is more reliable on long term?
If you sleeve the M157 and put aftermarket forged pistons and rods, are those new rods and pistons changing the play from bottom to top (on the wrist pin) like an M177 or is that not possible?
Don‘t worry Tasos! That’s explained perfectly!!! If there are still people that don‘t get it, they should try something else…
Excellent video! Thank you for the breakdown. We understand perfectly! Very well said, sir!
Thanks for this especially including the bmw N/S63. I have been confused why people are bending rods so much with N/S63 when they're not terribly designed. Some make 800whp, some barely can make 650
Your english actually makes it clearer for me to listen to, I appreciate hearing you explain it different ways, no need to apologize
Idk why they chose the stupid silitec surface for the M157 when they already had it figured out on the m156 with the LDS surface. That alone would get them to 200tkm imo. They updated it on the m278 but never on the m157 and idk why
To what did they update the cylinder walls on m278 and from what year? I am looking into buying a cls550 2014 and a little worried about that problem with wall scoring.
@@nerijusjuska645 2014 could have the problematic one. I know they changed it from 2015 onwards. Tbh I'd rather stay away from it if it has the silitec stuff. These problems usually occur around the 100-130tkm mark. The m278 has a couple of other problems too but idk THAT much about it. If you pick a 2015 model you should be fine, they might be a bit more expensive than the earlier models but not having to replace a core engine for 25-30k in a couple of years is worth it imo
@@derLeomitmBenzer been looking for info about this engine, but never saw anywhere written that they updated cylinder walls coating from silitec to anything else. The one i am looking at is 97k km. There arent many options nowadays to buy a low mileage 550 and even this new info makes it harder.
@@nerijusjuska645 yeah its hard to find written down informations. I only know it from mechanic friends a couple of YT videos and stuff i read in forums. And i know the pain of finding the right car, i was suuper happy to find my C63 from a army guy stationed here in germany. Full service record and no hard driving. Here in germany they get f'ed to shit by the usual suspects. Keep your eyes open. Low milage isn't everything imo. If the engine can take it a higher milage one with good service is sometimes better
@@derLeomitmBenzer 25-30k for engine replacement? Thats more than i would pay for the car im buying :D. Here where i live i know that full repair for the engine with sleeves and all that is around 10k euro. of course not sure about the longevity of the repair, havent experienced that myself. Anyway if i am going to buy the car i will do a pre purchase inspection, maybe the mechanic will tell me something. The owner when i met him to inspect the car showed me how the car drives, zero complaints, gears shifting smothly no weird engine noises. nothing to point out wrong about it. just that front of the engine has some oil leaks i didnt like that, and one more thing i didnt like that he has never done trans oil change. And the way he drives showed me that i think the car was abused. well atleast he says that he changed oil every 7k km with liquimoly 10w60.
I get what your trying to say! Dont worry about saying it perfectly. If I ever need work done on my M177, it will go to you!
So M177 > M113K > M157 :)
m177 > m113k > Late 2015+ m278 > m157 The late 278 over the m157 because smaller bore, longer piston skirt and better bore liner. But it still had potentially bent rods throughout m157 and 278 production apparently.
Tasks , have you done RMS replacement? Rear seal that leeks oil doe w213 e63 and similar ? Some say oil separator is somehow related to it . Wanted to check if that was something you’ve seen.
10:29 take a very smart wise man to know he may not always be right.
It will be interesting to see how the 177 motors last for long term durability and very high mileages (stock application) I think the hot side motors make too much heat in the V and will cook all wires and seals?
Interesting observation, but you have to take under consideration very good heat control\efficiency of the radiators. I never had any increase of the temp over 92'C of the cooland and oil never over 104'C in S63 (tuned to 778bhp). It's well protected with heatshield pannels too, it looks like a tunnel to move hot air behind the engine, around the gearbox down the car on the road.
In the G63 sometimes oil is 108'C, but i think it's less aerodynamic, hence this temps 🤷🏻♂️
That’s the trade off imo. Hot V = way more heat soak. Can’t be good in the long run.
Great Video, Thank you. By the Way I have M176 Engine. I am thinking about put Liqui Moly Mos 2 in for every oil change is this a good Idea?
Damn I was so set on getting a S212 E63S, but this made me scared. What if you keep the power stock, will it be reliable or is it an easy pass?
Yasss! Compare m156 and m113k vs the 177/157
Tasos, whats is stock length for wastegate actuator shaft (from base to centre of hole)? Car CLS 63s 2017 m157
Thank you Sir. I keep my M156 forever ( 160,000 miles ) but I will get m177 for play. If i have a lot of money then I can play with the m156 go figure
950bhp on the wheels 😱😱 on stock interiors !
Do we need to check at some point the pipe sucking oil from the pan?
I saw video where BMW M5 got this pipe stuck with gunk and engine full with oil suffered starvation of oil 😢
bro you helped me soo much !!!!!!!!! thank you SUBSCRIBED
I love it!
yes, ive been waiting for this
Stock m177 vs stock m157 long-term?
That's THE question
Thank you for video. Can you advise what you think is a comfortable maximum HP/Torq for the stock M177?
I think he had mentioned in other videos . Literally… STOCK. Maybe exhaust and intakes but after watching all of his videos I’m not touching mine . A tune with Weistec down pipes is enough to bend these connecting rods.
My ML63 AMG is the “ performance “ package which comes with 18 PSI Boost from factory compared to the “non-performance “ which is 14 PSI. and I think it’s 560 hp at 540ft- tq ? I believe that’s max for these rods. I was going to tune mine but i don’t want 5,000 miles of “Fun” driving before I have to buy a new engine lol
@@austinmuncrief252the m177 is fine for 900+ hp
@@austinmuncrief252 perhaps you mean m157? I think the m177 is the best modern AMG engine for “RELIABLE “ big power…. Like 800hp mark is no problem I think based on what I see. Lets see after 150k miles.
I can’t decide which one to get W213 E63s M177 or W212r E63s M157? Help pls.
From this video, you need to go to m177. But mine 2014 e63s runs solid, it’s approaching 94k miles.
Tasos, on a boosted m113 NA, at what point is it worth swapping pistons to m113K type? I.e. how much stronger are m113k pistons?
M113k pistons are not necessarily much stronger because they are still Hypereutectic (not forged). However, the m113k pistons are shorter for lower compression. The wrist pins and connecting rods are way stronger on m113k vs m113 NA.
@@AMGmeister Will the m113k gudgeon pins fit NA pistons and rods?
I think what you are trying to say Tosos, is …. M157 SKIPS LEG DAY😅 🚫💪
m177 can last for high km? i mean 200km+?stock one
nope, blown at 145k km, south Denmark weather
So that’s what’s causing cylinder scoring in m157
M177 v M113K ?
M177
@@TasosMoschatos By how much of a margin though? If I want a 700whp engine to put in my w126. Which would you choose between the two?
First :)
M157 vs S63TU??? (Same year)