Diver's Insatiable Desire for Adventure Leads to Cave Diving Disaster | Dave Shaw Case Analysis
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze case of Dave Shaw?
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There is no bigger 'nope' than going cave diving
Except perhaps, on a carbon composite hull submarine diving to the titanic…..lol.
Don't tell that to the cave divers, I used to watch Dive Talk and those guys will tell you over and over how safe it is if you do everything right. Even after all that though you won't catch me dead cave diving.
Update: I just went to check their channel because I haven't in a while and Woody had to get medevac'd the other day after a dive. I knew they were full of it.
😂👍👍👍♥️
😂👍👍👍♥️
I'm right there with you.
The first rule of cave diving - never go cave diving.
That is also the second, third and fourth rule of cave diving.
💯😂
Lol exactly!!!
FACT!
There are actually five basic rules of cave diving that are widely subscribed to by cave divers. They are meant to improve safety of divers in these dangerous environments and have been deduced through many tragic deaths:
1) Always use a continuous guideline to the surface.
2) Save two-thirds of the total air supply for returning to the surface.
3) Carry at least three lights during the dive.
4) Limit dive depth to that appropriate for the gas being breathed
5) Be well trained in cave diving and mentally prepared for the dive.
While cave diving carries many inherent risks and is something I would never try (even regular open water diving scares me), I have been fascinated to learn more about the discipline from the "DIVE TALK" channel. What at first seemed to me to be a suicide mission with huge risks is actually an advanced skill that CAN be performed safely with proper equipment and training. Cave divers must be extremely skilled in their movements in the water, and their understanding of SCUBA technology and protocol.
Of all the rules number five is the most important. While there have been cases such as Dave Shaw's death where an eminently experienced diver has died in a cave, by far the most common cause of underwater cave fatalities is when divers without proper training venture into these environments. Even divers considered "advanced" in open water skills can become quickly disoriented in a cave environment due to darkness, silting out (when much gets stirred up and obscured visibility), or panic when they lose track of the route back. Cave Divers systematically reduce these risks through training. Divers that are not cave certified and using proper equipment should NEVER enter a cave environment.
No one can ever convince me that cave diving is safe
I don't think any cave divers would try to convince you of that. Even just regular scuba diving in open water is very dangerous, I wouldn't discourage anyone from it because I personally love it and it's amazing, but every diver I know is aware of the risks. Proper training also emphasizes the risk - I'll never forget being told in my first dive lesson that if I accidentally held my breath while ascending it could cause my lungs to explode.
I’m much more likely to die driving to the cave than actually diving in it.
@@drummercve2398 That's not even close to true.
@@flingonber if you get a driving licence and stick to the rules of the road, then driving is generally safe. Same goes for any type of diving (not just cave diving).
@@flingonberdamn. I'm a chronic breath holder. Love the idea of diving but I would die in a second
Has to suck to be his wife and kids and know your loved one prioritized their fun over their responsibilities to you.
Living one''s "life on the edge" is not compatible with having a wife and family. It can't be had both ways.
"Prioritized". 🤓
Yes, how can such people risk their lives when other human beings are depending on them? I am surprised that his wife let him go?
It''s not only financial support, it is also emotional connection and family structure.@@commonsense2680
@@commonsense2680 imagine thinking you have the power to "let" another adult human being do... well, anything.
I’ll never understand the NEED to recovery a corpse at any cost, including another death. The person’s dead. Furthermore, they died doing something they loved. Leave them there! Just like Mt. Everest where hundreds(?) Of corpses are naturally laid to rest when their mission to climb a dangerous summit failed. This idea that the dead have to be put into parks (cemeteries) is so weird to me. My dad is out at sea too and that’s where he belongs.
Good thought
@katesshby3066 I too do not understand a ‘recovery’🎉with a clear deceased + in precarious position where it’s dangerous for others to retrieve. Sentiments, plaques , & memoriams can still be done to reflect their lives
right. the person is gone & doesn’t need rescuing. it’s crazy to think that people risk their lives because we have strongly held social constructs/norms tied to death
I can see the point when people don't know what happened to a loved one and they just disappeared. But certainly not worth risking other lives
Well, there's simple sanitation to consider in general, but I do agree, that there's no real reason to recover a body in a situation where the recovery is also high risk (e.g. in the death zone above 8,000 meters or in an under water cave).
Cave diving has got to be the scariest thing that a person can do. Nothing could make me do that😮
My BIL knew him briefly thru the diving community, said he was reckless and dangerous. The recovery idea was just ego, Dreyers family had come to terms with him not being recovered.
Yup. That’s why he had a documentary crew there. He was chasing clout.
I'm pretty sure this was not the kind of closure they were looking for.
This video just reminded me to freshen up on my floating body bagging skills.
Doc your spectrum of stories and analysis is awesome. This story is so tragic chasing adrenaline is never a good idea.
Nah these cave dive videos have been popular lately I figured he would shamelessly start covering them.
"I FiGuReD He WoUlD ShamElEsSlY sTarT CoVeriNg TheM."@@Ken-fh4jc
@@Ken-fh4jcCaving and cave diving videos have been popular for years now.
@@Ken-fh4jc oh lord. Have a good new years.
@@Ken-fh4jcwho hurt you?
Bungee jumping, sky diving, and especially cave diving for body recovery at récord depths seems really, really, REALLY UNWISE!
I'm terrified of heights, absolutely TERRIFIED, but if I was forced to choose I'd rather go sky diving than cave diving. I feel like it would be over much more quickly. The panic and struggle underwater in a confined space... #nothanks 😱😱😱😱
I went sky diving and completely lost control of my body coming out of the plane. That was a one and done experience. I'm not diving in a swimming pool. I prefer my burial to happen after I die.
Bungee jumping is relatively safe though
Until it isn't 😂@@MenitaK
@@defundhollywood3259 I used to be okay with heights; climbed trees all the time and even fell out of a few but after being on the ground at the WTC on 9/11 and watching those people fall (a memory that does NOT wane with age) and imagining what must have gone through their minds on the way down just turned me 180 degrees on heights. Then I started having dreams my kids and I were hanging from collapsing bridges and such and I could only save one; great dreams like that. I don't know if I'll ever get on a plane again. I am a true ground dweller.
I like calm and watching the grass grow.
Most divers would never attempt the dives that Dave attempted, mostly because of the dying part.
Just because you Can do something, doesn't mean you Should.
So tragic. The only silver lining is the fact that his escapades didn’t get anyone else killed. He truly seemed to have a death wish. Like an ordinary death just wouldn’t do
More like a birth wish.
Cave diving is always hella dangerous. Even 20m deep you are in a lot of danger.
He hurt his family 😪
"his escapades didn’t get anyone else killed. " The last one almost killed Don...
Dave Shaw lacked patience. He cared about others at the risk of endangering himself. He lived a free and unrestrained life. Unfortunately, for everyone who loved him, his inability to think twice cost him dearly. You’re off to a great start, Dr. Grande. Here’s to a bright and optimistic new year!
He didn't only endanger himself though, he also risked passengers on his plane and other divers.
Did he want to retrieve the body for the family, or get glory from breaking a record?? Smh he was the architect of his own demise
There are quite a few people like Dave who will keep pushing until they end up dead. It seems to give us a constant feed of interesting stories and videos of how stupidity and bad judgement can easily kill. The final remarks by Dr Grande about Dave's selfish motives of endangering others in order to get a thrill seems to describe the Ocean Gate event. Selfish, dangerous, and being funded by the money of people being subjected to great danger for a thrill.
"There are quite a few people like Dave who will keep pushing until they end up dead."
That's fine as long as they don't endanger other people. More importantly, is that they don't have a wife and children
@@MrStringybarksadly many people care more about their own entertainment than their children’s emotional welfare
Always find this tragic when people die trying to retrieve a dead body, seems so pointless.
Very pointless.
I don't think it's pointless at all. People want the remains of their loved ones recovered & properly laid to rest (according to their own personal beliefs and feelings).. it may not matter to you, but it matters greatly to some others. 💜
@fragrancememoir2350 You forget soldiers were buried in the sea for hundreds of years. Why risk more death to retrieve a shell of a body.
@adaboy4z I hear you.. but if someone is willing.. then I am sure that the family would appreciate it. ... unfortunately he lost his life in his attempt, but that was a risk that he was very aware of & totally willing to take. I also think he wanted to be successful at breaking the record of the deepest body retrieval... so he was definitely motivated on a personal level.
@@fragrancememoir2350true , but to let others risk their lives to give you some peace of mind is selfish
I m so glad my brother quit diving.
Never forget after doing an outdoor search and rescue exercise our instructor made a comment that stayed with me forever “most of the incidents you encounter is not so much newbies but the people who think they know what they are doing. The people who do a small or moderate challenge feel they are capable for the greatest challenge.
Thank you, Dr. Grande, for including the important detail that Shaw dived too close in time to piloting an aircraft. Many people leave this out of the story. It was in fact known among an increasing number of Cathay pilots that Shaw frequently made dives involving controlled ascent (ie, decompression stops) less than the 24 hour minimum required before flying a plane. Colleagues did not like it one bit. He was either going to lose his license, or potentially kill a planeload of people if he had not died in that cave. Shaw was a reckless amateur.
This is why I love Dr Grande’s video. For years I’ve read and watched a lot about the Nutty Putty cave incident - Dr Grande’s video was so well researched it included important details the mass of other videos have at all!
Yeah, that's profoundly irresponsible, and it puts the lie to the assertion that "he only risked his own life". He risked the life of everyone on the planes he was flying, violating some basic physiological realities that every diver is warned about in their basic open-water training. Inexcusable.
Great point. 😮
Good thing that Don was able to "detach" himself from the danger of being Dave's dive support. And that was the only life that Dave was risking, beside his own. Let be thankful for that (that he unalived himself in an underwater cave as opposed to while flying a plane..)
Let’s go!!!! Dr. Grande is the most reliable uploader!! I have a tiny UA-cam following and I know the level of commitment it takes to
Upload so regularly, and Dr. Grande never fails us!
Respect the elements.
Dr. Grande, your output is astonishing, yet quality stays consistent. Thank you.
he basically stole/rebranded information from the documentary called "Dave not coming back"
@@rrbearcatHow is retelling the same facts an act of theft? Is he supposed to create another story for the sake of originality? That would be absurd.
@@rrbearcat I would probably never watch the documentary. Dr Grande did me the favor of watching it and summarizing it with only the important information.
in terms of mental imagery this has got to be one of the most disturbing stories i’ve ever heard. his head came off & started to float away? ghastly
There's a terrific memoir, "Descent into Darkness", by a naval officer who was a salvage diver working on the battleships that were sunk at Pearl Harbor. One of the delightful aspects of that work was slogging through a stew of oil, industrial solvents, jagged metal, explosives, and human remains. But the only time he came close to full-on panic was during a dive when he discovered that a spider had stowed away in his brass hat diving rig!
Wow, cave diving is such an easy way to die. Appreciate how well you always research the technical side of your videos and don't spew out rubbish like many journalists.
Hmmm....my New Year resolution was to take more risks...me reconsidering
Reckless, impetuous, and unintentionally risking the lives of others. Dave Shaw and Stockton Rush of the OceanGate tragedy seem to share many of the same traits.
Comparing Dave to Stockton Rush is unjust, Dave always said, "If I make a mistake don't try to recover my body" Stockton Rush was a Capitalist Rat, with no respect for human life, he knew that submersible was not safe, besides that, he even charged money from people, the only lack of respect Dave had was for it's own life.
Hubris will get you every time.
These cave stories have really reminded me of Stockton Rush.
Dave shaw planned and executed a plan to recover the body of a missing diver. He also told everyone that they were not to go down after him if anything goes wrong...
There is a big difference. Dave was a good man with a big heart.
@@stevendavies1496 I think that they can't reach the humanity of the man, in trying to recover a body, from a 20 year old boy to his parents. He was a great man.
This man lived an extraordinary life but wanted to play famous hero so bad he died for a corpse.... no disrepect to the dead, but no corpse is worth a life.... sad all around
It wasn’t about playing “famous hero” as you put it. He wasn’t even looking for Deon’s body when he found it. He was breaking records, and he broke 4 (or 5) in that single dive. He saw the body and knew exactly who it was. Because he had found him, he felt it was his duty to bring him home. He wasn’t trying to be a “famous hero”. And when someone says “no disrespect”, they do in fact mean disrespect 🙄
"Dave loved to live on the edge of panic and death. I guess that is what made him [feel] alive rather than merely be alive."
Hello, Dr. Grande!
You always say "Thanks for watching". I say thank YOU, for your hard work, great content, brilliant wit, amazing sense of humor and well researched videos!
I'm a huge fan😊
Wishing you & your family a happy New Year!🎉❤
Well, he died doing something pretty crazy, which seemed to be his love.
The "world of diving" is something most of us never hear of. Its a niche to put it mildly.
He was reckless enough to marry and have 2 kids, and pay no attention to rather he might survive very long.
Much like many climbers on Everest, they place the summit's importance over every other thing in their life. Their family has to pick up the pieces if it goes bad.
Dr. Grande has the best variety of topics analyzed, this is one of my favorite UA-cam channels. Two enthusiastic thumbs up from me and my boo!
Why are some people attracted to fringe hobbies? To become a big fish in a small pond? To become an expert in a field that doesn’t need one? We used to tease my dad when he had hobbies like collecting fire extinguishers and sprinkler heads. I have a new appreciation for dad
Diving's terrific! It's as close as non-astronauts can get to space travel. Go a mere ten feet down and you're in a different world. We're really privileged to live in a time when such things are possible.
Cave diving is a death wish. So many things can go wrong exploring a cave, but doing underwater is crazy.
Doesn't have to be. There's a group down in Florida that's been doing astonishing work exploring and charting miles-long caves (wish I could recall the name they go by). They're extremely rigorous about gear, protocols, everything, and they've never had a casualty.
I advanced through scuba training to a master diver card with over 200 dives. Open water diving is a fun, safe recreation that the whole family can enjoy. However, there's no way that I'd ever cave dive. I won't even structure dive. I want to be able to have the open air directly above me, even if it's 130 feet above me at night. I was an Army medic and civilian paramedic and have also taken couple of scuba search and rescue/recovery courses. Not only do cave divers risk their own lives, they also risk the lives of their rescuers/recoverers if something goes wrong.
Did anyone ask you for your approval? Or ask you to cave dive? What is your issue, exactly? Are you upset that other people do things that they want to do and that you don't want to do? No one has to do a rescue or recovery dive either, if they choose not to.
Cave divers have saved lives too. As in the case of the Thai children. Have to respect the courage. I won't even use an elevator I'm so claustrophobic...
Scaredy Cat!
@@stt5v2002 Lmao I wondered the same. It's a weird flex.
Congratulations and TY for your Services!
The details of his long and solid history of loving risks and danger - and while being less than fully skilled - is very helpful to explain this diving death. Quite similar to the recent disturbing death of UA-camr pilot Jenny Blalock. In both cases one is therefore justified in withholding a certain amount of sympathy.
All sympathy for the ones who Loved him...
God. She got her dad killed tho so she’s even worse.
I'll never understand extreme sports/hobbies. You would never catch me cave diving. There seem to be so many of these kinds of stories.There's a fine line between being heroic and being reckless. His mission to retrieve a fellow cave diver's body was admirable but not worth risking your life over.
Having nearly drowned once myself I found being unable to breathe perhaps one of the most terrifying experiences of my life.
Thank you for covering this Dr G. Another sad tale of how precious life is and how fragile it can be.
I truly hope he didn't suffer and the nitrogen narcosis made him blissfully unaware of what was happening. Perhaps I'm being naive.
Your analysis of this case was excellent. I try to guess the "speculative diagnosis" you'll come up with. I concur with your summary and believe he overestimated his abilities and was addicted to danger - - a deadly combination.
It’s because you have a normal “craving” or threshold for adrenaline. Daredevil types are addicted to adrenaline just like substance abusers are addicted to the chemicals in drugs or alcohol.
I don’t get the attraction to dangerous excitement like we see in these kinds of trips. Never have, never will. Respect nature.
I remember seeing a documentary about this and it showed what his camera captured. He was attempting to cut his way out of a tangled line with a pair of scissors and he just became slower and more uncoordinated. I have to admit that has really haunted me ever since.
I think people like Dave Shaw (and others like Stockton Rush of the Titan submersible disaster come to mind) think nothing bad will ever happen to them because they are so very f**king special.
You couldn't be more wrong about Dave, he was a very humble man.
@@pixie89you knew him? Tell us about him.
@@pixie89 "he was a very humble man." His recklessness says otherwise...
Dr G, Happy New Year to you and your lovely Wife!!
I am familiar with this case and my admiration for you has reached another level upon realising the ‘extra research’ you undertook to present this story…
Love from Australia 🇦🇺
Happy New Year to you and Mrs. Grande! Another excellent analysis of human (mis) behavior. As an amateur diver I can say that even the “easiest” dive can be dangerous/fatal. Diving is a dangerous sport and cave diving is potentially highly lethal. The margin for error is nonexistent. Thank you for your incisive analysis, as always, Dr. G!
I get short of breath just hearing “cave diving”
As soon as you said he modified his rebreather, I knew that this would not end well
Reckless behaviour that endangers others is inexcusable. Remember eg Stockton Rush and the OceanGate pink-mist machine.
I wonder why his torch wasn't tethered to him...
The fact that they both were tied to the surface at the end, it's so sad yet heroic even though he did risk his life
He couldnt think anymore, the body he was trying to save, was now floating up.
He couldnt just let it float up and be recovered. So he died.
Not to sound callous but it's not brave to get yourself killed just for fame. A fireman dying to save someone is brave or something along those lines. What Dave did was egotistical and could have gotten others killed.
"heroic?" - watched too many Indiana Jones movies?
Why? My former husband loved deep-sea diving and is also a licenced pilot. He’s also a decorated Vietnam veteran who was a POW and was able to escape from the prison in Southeast Asia, during the war.
During our marriage he resisted the need to go diving, but since our divorce, he’s also lived on the edge. I see him as numb with a limited range of empathy. I hope he too doesn’t do anything foolish.
Thank you for this video, Dr. Grande! I look forward to your amazing videos in 2024. Happy New Year to you and your loved ones!
Congrats on your very smart move!
Thank you for analyzing this interesting case,Dr. Grande.❤ Your pov and effort on these videos is greatly appreciated,❤ I always look forward to your next one.❤
2nd cave accident analysis in just a couple months! Dr. Grande must have recently gone down the UA-cam caving accident rabbit hole, too! (The stories are so addictive 😭)
Yup that's what happened to me. Woody from Dive Talk just had a pretty freaky incident recently.
I heard quite a lot of them on Mr Ballens Channel. When I could still stand to watch his content, before getting burned out.
Happy New Years, Dr and Mrs Grande 🎉. I’m looking forward to an interesting year ahead thanks to your channel ❤
Spot on explanation of a re-breather. Great analysis.
Thank you for the detailed background of the incident. As a person growing up in the Northern Cape (Kuruman/Daniëlskuil region), this story is well known with admiration for Dave Shaw. Various documentaries of the incident depict the challenges and risks of recovering Deon's body, and the divers knew it well. In the end, his promise to the Dreyer family to retrieve Deon's body stood, despite the tragic end to his own life.
"his promise to the Dreyer family" - too bad, it was a "promise" the family had not asked for...
These type of people are explorers. They understand the risk. At least he died doing something he loved.
More than they love their own families
He emphatically DID NOT "understand the risk". If he did, he wouldn't have FLOWN AN AIRLINER hours after a technical dive to great depths. That's extreme recklessness verging on mass manslaughter.
There are bold divers and old divers but there are no old, bold divers 😂😂
Indeed
Sort of reminds me of the CEO of the submersible that imploded a while back. Irresponsible level of desire for adventure involving other people.
Fascinating analysis. Thank you, Dr. Grande!
All fine and dandy if he had not had children. Utterly selfish.
He was like the Evel Kneivel of diving
Dr. Grande, you are the most interesting/fun man to listen to on UA-cam.
Happy New Year.
Thank you for this interesting analysis Dr. Grande. It's one I that have never heard of nor considered before. I found your points so interesting about adventurists like Dave. How he was addicted to the dangerous drug of adventure and would have rather been dead than to lose his supply. Seeing the whole picture behind this story was very helpful in understanding what took place. Thank you
I think I may have heard this one on Mr Ballen too. Or one similar to it. You couldn't pay me enough to cave dive.
diving + cave = death wish
Happy New Year!
stories like this make me think about how strong some of our social constructs are, esp ones that center on death. there are people willing to risk their lives to try & retrieve dead bodies, as if it matters to the body. who does it matter to? the living, who over thousands of years have developed social norms. i can fully understand feeling weird that your loved one’s body is out there trapped or lost, but that feeling comes from being conditioned to think about things in certain ways based on the culture i grew up in. idk it’s just kind of crazy when you think about it
Funny thing was the dead diver family didn't ask for the body to start with...
An interesting companion documentary is Dave Not Coming Back. Goes into detail about the entire event and the other people involved. Great analysis.
Thanks Dr.Grande and a Happy New Year for you, all the best, health and what you wish for you and your loved ones, i love your channel!
Dr., you are the sane and stable father figure that so many people never had. On behalf of all of them - thank you.
Take a break from the internet.. sounds like an unhealthy parasocial dynamic
This comment is gold ❤️💯🙏
@@cutiepiebbright. love dr. grande but i can’t imagine referring to someone who is (despite how it may feel when you constantly consume someone’s content) a total stranger as my father figure
Like Fred Rogers, he's calm and steady and we can trust what he says because he teaches us good sense and helps us understand confusing and upsetting situations which makes us feel safer from them. And he comes across as caring for his audience. You're right, it is fatherly. I have a wonderful dad who was just like this. I can imagine how much it could mean to someone who didn't have a good father to experience a man taking the time with them this way.
In the documentary, I recall that they only showed Dave getting caught in the diving line of the diver he was trying to rescue. Dave couldn't get the lines untangled and drowned.
yep, it's best to watch the real documentary not this guys version/rebranding of it.
@rrbearcat Documentaries themselves are versions/rebrandings of actual events.
@@jannea4318 depends on if it's an original documentary or not. If it's a documentary that uses original material from another documentary, then sources need to be cited, in accordance with whatever standard being used MLA, APA, etc. etc.
Thank you as always for these videos and happy new year 🥳
Cave diving is insanely dangerous.
Dave Shaw was 50 years old at the time of the dive that resulted in his death and was obviously completely out of shape. That definitely would not be the time to make an extremely dangerous and physically demanding cave dive.
We will always support you, Dr Grande. Have a great year ahead.
This tragic story reminds me of the Titan submersible nightmare.
A lot of extreme sports people die of overconfidence.
"He even brought an extra body, his own"
Damn Doc!!! Chill!!!
I hope you're doing well Dr G, and fam. Happy new year
I highly recommend the documentary "Dave Not Coming Back" about David Shaw. It's really good.
Thank you, Dr. Grande, for this well done presentation.
Happy New Year to you and the beautiful Mrs. Grande ❤️🎊 Thank you for the analysis. I was really rooting for Dave to complete the mission alive. I appreciated the explanation on the diving terms, as I have little experience in this area.
Our society is filled with this guy
Dave was an Accident waiting to Happen . it seems .
Anything related to cave, water, mountain, hiking incidents is so fascinating to me
Happy New Year Dr Grande! You are loved in our home! ❤ 🌵 👓
"Brought back an extra body. His own." 😂😂😂
Happy New Year 🥳 Dr Grande 🍾🥂
Wow! A super interesting tale Todd!
Hi Dr. Grande✨🥂Happy New Year to you & yours…looking to continue the New with you! Thank you for all the knowledge
Happy New Year to you and your wife. God Bless you in the new year. I never miss any of your videos. ❤
Your upload schedule is incredible my man Dr grande. How do you manage to do so many videos so quickly?
He dove into our hearts and became stuck in the caves of our upper thoracic area, giving us heartburn, as we lay in our beds.
"He dove into our hearts" It was a different anatomy part of mine that he "dove into". Sorry to inform...
Thank you, Dr. Grande, for your excellent analyses on this channel. I always look forward to your content. Wishing you and Mrs. Grande all the best in 2024.
The Stockton Rush of self submersive operations.
I'd seen a few stories on this one before so I thought Dr. Grande had done this one before...but I guess not!
Suggestion for a future video: the case of the death of Shane Todd--would love to see Dr. Grande's analysis on that case.
‘Mostly due to the not wanting to die part’ you are the funniest person ever…. Much love to you and yours.
My interest in any hobby wanes when I see a body.
At least no one has commented about not diagnosing yet.
😂
He mentioned this guy flew crop-dusting planes. I was once driving thru rural Midwest for work and I watched a crop duster doing flips, barrel rolls, dramatic changes in altitude... basically he was just having fun. Seems like a great job for a thrill seeker
As a truck driver I've seen them, too. They're very dangerous simply because they drop so low to the ground, over and over and over. But it is neat to watch their skill. That must have been a sight!
Thank you! ❤Happy New Year 2024❤❤❤