pretty sure that was the quote that forced my hand to click buy. I love that this thing uses aesthetics from MS's 1976 flight sim. Take one lap and you'll see where the R&D went.
Considering Ams2 is still being developed it's a little unfair at this stage to compare! ams2 are bringing out revisions almost daily I suggest you revisit this comparison at least until after launch
Considering AMS2 is still in early access and probably has a good 6-8 months till it's a more fully baked title it may be a bit premature to make this comparison as I think there is a lot of car/track tuning that needs to happen in AMS2. Possibly returning to this a little after AMS2 has been fully released will give a better comparison.
After giving it 4hrs I gave up it's too buggy for me I refunded the game. I do have faith in Reiza but not the choice of game engine they chose. They should of went with RF2 engine. They put their bets on an unproven engine that's known for bugs and the community is responding appropriately.
Outstanding video. I am familiar with all the tracks and cars showcased here in both sims, having spent quite a lot of time with them as they are some of my favourite, and have to agree with your conclusion. At this point rF2 physics and FFB feels more refined. I still enjoy AMS2 a lot and it will improve. Another car on a whole different level in rF2 is the Porsche Cup. Please make other non obvious cross-sim analysis: this is very interesting, original and rarely done. PS: the MP4 f1 car is terrifying to drive
The cup car is outstanding. It completely up-ends my understanding of driving with its crazy tendency to under/over steer while varying between states of braking, coast and power. It takes about a day to stop crashing on the first lap before I can use it, and afterwards I'm slower in every other car. I truly hate the car as much as I love the amazing job they did modeling it.
@@Ermz Default setup is very unstable and problematic. I suggest to use this one: forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/porsche-cup-ai.64187/page-3#post-1020891. It makes the car much more stable without altering its character.
AM2 is fantastic, and still has a lot to improve, as it is a receiving release that will be updated for a long time. Sensational physics, beautiful graphics, and soon it will be the best simulator available. Congratulations Reiza !!
I think this video was way too early to make. You should have compared the exactly same cars, using Reiza DLC. There is a difference in FFB within the AMS2, and it's still in Ea, so we don't know what will change. I just drove VIR in rain with MCR, and the FFB in AMS2 is excellent - rumble on straights, more agressive vibrations depending on kerb roughness, lockup feel etc. BUT - Lancer RS has significantly less feedback on kerbs, almost none. Not sure if it's because of softer suspension and setup, or if it's not a finished car yet. AMS2 is too forgiving and easy to drive in wet. But if I had to choose between rF2 +10% realism and AMS2 weather, diverse content, UI, updates and overall fun, I would play AMS2. And it's still in EA. rF2 is here 7 YEARS and still far from perfect...
Agree. I already wrote my thoughts above about the details. But, yes, road cars have tall and soft suspensions compared to race cars. As it happens, the MCR S2000 may be one of the vehicles that needs a tweak to tone down the sharpness of its feedback. It should be similar to its sister car, the MRX. However, depending on how your wheel is set-up, you might think the MRX is off and the MCR is better. Reiza is the master of balancing and calibrating all this stuff and will do so here prior to the actual release of v1.0. I can drive every car in AMS with the same FFB setting and they all feel like they are in the same physics universe and all feel appropriate relative to each other. 8 years later in rF2 I still cannot do this.
Your reply tells me that your the type of person that Reiza is listening to for the feel of the sim. personally prefer to feel what the cars front wheels are doing on the road surface to know when on the limit of front end grip while turning and trail braking. rumble on straights, aggressive vibrations depending on kerb roughness, is far from feeling like a true sim, all that information will drown out the important details of grip when on the limit in corners. shame they didn't decide to add arcade mode for those who believe the jerking going on in the wheel means great FFB. the pendulum effect is a joke, and can't believe it's in a 2020 game. as the game is now, it would have been better if it was developed into a drifting title.
@@keckz92 To avoid starting endless discussion about ffb, I will tell you this: I think the best ffb in sims is in rF2 and AMS1. The rest is worse with their own advantages and disadvantages. But I don't have a problem with AMS2, I know what the car is doing. It's certainly better than ACC at some situations. Physics however are a different story...
rFactor 2 has an excellent weather system, an upcoming UI overhaul, consistent updates, fairly regular paid and free content releases, and tons of great mods. If you find AMS2 more fun, I’m not trying to convince you otherwise, but you may want to give rF2 a second look.
@@jamesmathai1138 I give rF2 a "second look" all the time. I play it for a while, then some old bug pisses me off, and I go to other sims. Recently developer priorities have been pissing off the community, the paid content is rushed. Nobody has listened that Nurburgring needs optimization yet they gladly take the money. Just read the forums about endless problems S397 ignores.
They are all built from the same original ISI engine, in case you did not know. rF is the son of rFPro. rF2 is an off-shoot of rF. AMS is an off-shoot of rF. Madness is an off-shoot of rF. AMS' advancements over rF are so obvious within 10 seconds of driving. AMS (1) has hard core features that rF2 (and AMS 2 temporarily!!!!) does not have. Madness has features that rF2 does not have. Every dev can choose to continue to develop and focus on various elements as they see fit, but the "genes" are all the same source.
If you think there is a lack of feedback in AMS 2, you haven't configured your wheel/FFB properly. It's a bit tricky to configure at this EA state, but lack of micro or macro detail is not one of the issues. And, the two "road" cars you tested are completely different vehicles, so it should be a complete coincidence if they ended-up with the same lap times (is the BMW AWD?). Unfortunately, AMS 2 is not yet in a polished or convenient state (for controller and FFB set-up among many other issues). Let's say at 2 months prior to release, it is approximately where rF2 was 2 or 3 YEARS after its release... (I was there from day 1 of beta and lived through it all.) Some of us have FFB and handling equal or superior to rF2 already. It requires some experimentation with settings to "balance" Gain versus "LFB," which is probably badly named since it is not the "low forces boost" of other titles. It is more complex and does not mask any regular forces. Likewise, all road and chassis feedback is present even if "FX" is set to zero, but you can get more if you prefer by adding with that slider. I do look forward to your thoughtful and technically-relevant review and comparison of AMS 2 in about two to three months time :)
Marc Collins I agree with you. I’ve been with rF2 from the very beginning (Zane rF1, for that matter). AMS2, with properly tuned Low Force Boost (I use 60-80 on my TSXW), has detailed FFB that is very similar to rF2. I’m guessing the reviewer had the force boost set way too low.
FFB should be one slider like in rF2 for forces. Having multiple adjustments like AMS2 is a flawed system that tries to add what is not there in the code in a canned effect way.
@@blotmaster1 I agree that if possible, fewer sliders are better. There are no canned effects in any of the existing sliders in AMS 2. They have all been removed by Reiza.
First thanks for taking the time to make it,Ive got all the Sims and enjoy them all,love sebring on RF2,Road America on AC exc....Some car and track combos are better on certain sims,Some people think graphics are important,some thinks physics,some think both.I think as a sim racer we are blessed to have so many sims to choose from.I enjoyed watching these vidios.
You should do the rF2 review again with the latest ASR F1 91 MP4/6, as they have really improved it. And then compare the AMS2 F-V10 Gen 2 with a suitable Custom FFB seatings file to be able to feel the full effect of a more detailed FDB experience.
The one thing I feel in rf2 that I don't in any other sim is an effect that I don't know the name of, but I'm going to call "brake caster." When you get heavy into the brakes in rfactor2, especially in a car with wide tires, you can feel the steering well try to return to center. Release the brake, and you can turn the car back in with less effort. No other sim I've driven yet seems to even try to capture this effect.
I wanted to come here ND say that this is the best review video I've ever seen, until your FFB comments on AMS, I haven't tired that combo but I'm sceptical that the FFB is as dull as you are making it out to be Edit': Apart from that, man you gave do much info and went into so mu h detail. Looking forward to more. This is how you do a review. Big up
@@ryanmazumder4535 They didn't. AMS1 was based on rFactor and AMS 2 is based on pCars2. What they are trying to achieve is AMS1 quality with pCars 2 graphics. So far it has taken many steps towards that but still miles to go.
Hey Ermin, as an amateur racing channel myself, I am pretty surprised (at UA-cam) that I haven't been recommended your Channel before?. I just read your ABOUT INFO TAB, and it "could be?" because you do RPG video's as well, and that I don't normally watch rF2 video's either. But as a person that has to agree with almost everything you say about AMS2, you might have just solely convinced me to finally give rF2 a try as well. I can tell you for sure though, that what keeps putting me off in both Raceroom & I always hear the same in rFactor 2, is the very confusing UI & non-intuitive setup pages for wheels, FFB, etc. I am very impressed by your discussion piece video here - so will subscribe - but just wanted to ask you if you have any R3E or RF2 FFB setup guides in your past video library?. Thanks for this very interested video... CHEERS
Now this is a comparison that is done very well! Your comparison is THE reason not to buy AMS2, despite the fact I really enjoyed AMS. Instead I went for the BMW in RF2, and I am enjoying it immensely.
Great video, Ermin. Are you planning on trying this again now that AMS2 has had another update? Do you plan on doing this every time AMS2 gets a new update? I believe the most recent update in AMS2 added the finer inputs.
Thanks for the comparison! Deffo not the best physics yet Has to be said. Ams2 is so fun and engaging tho just like youve said. So much potential! Why does anyone play sims if not to have fun? Too much hate for a potential future world beater with perfect vr performance, fun and unusual cars to drive and incredible and believable weather effects! Tell me annother game that handles all of these things as well as ams2!
I agree. There is something really fun with AMS2, where you can sit back with a cold beverage and just relax. Whereas rf2, you would definitely be more frustrated. I feel AMS2 physics is there or there abouts, but maybe the FFB is not up to par yet. Its good, but they just need to tweak it a bit before final release. AMS1 still has better FFB to me. The graphics in AMS2 is amazing though. rf2 has its moments with its clean clinical true to life look, but wow, AMS2 is another level. I never played PC2 so this is the first ive seen of engine, but wow, it looks so good.
@@jiltjes try 30-40 gain ; 80 low force ; 30-50 FX in AMS2 options. works great that way for my g27! . also i put spring effect and damper to 0 in the logitech profiler.
I’m regulary play ACC and refunded ams2 in 15mins. Graphic is amazing, physical model also acceptable, what force me to refund it was the lack of some more usual and known cars&tracks.
Cool Video! And I agree with all but maybe one statement, that off-roading a formula one car wouldnt feel like tiny explosives under your car. As someone who has personally driven his formula car off the track many times, I can tell you that the stiff suspension, doubled with how low to the ground you are, makes for a VERY uncomfortable ride. It's incredibly easy to go off track and lose all control because any type of bump off road, will either take your car off the ground, or completely bottom it out. Just wanted to give you the feedback on how that really feels :) Keep up the good videos!
How does the first Automobilista compare with these two? I would be really interested to know how you think Automobilista 1 compares with these two sims. I think it would be an interesting comparison particularly as I think AMS1 used the rFactor game/physics engine. Great comparison video. Your other video on the new FFB and brake update (v0.8.4.0) convinced me to get AMS2.
Hello and sorry to bother you Ermin , Maybe could help me out. i love F1 racing games and so far I'm struggling to find one to drive. I have Asseto Corsa and there are several F1 mods but few Online leagues. i have a reasonable setup with a G27 and a playseat challenge , but since i play racing games with VR ( automobilista 2 for example ) and because i don't have a triple monitor setup after i tried VR i cannot play without it, i've seen the Real mod for F12020 but its really not optimized . Do you have any suggestions ? Automobilista 2 seems to be a good alternative but it lacks on leagues or even the official tracks . I know that its a difficult question but im asking you since you have some experience in sim racing xD
I got ASM2 today, It was weird, I was correcting, and I didn't know why I was correcting, it was like instinctual. Maybe ASM2 gives you a good subconscious information how the car handles via the feedback on the steering. I also got into a correcting position at Adelaide which I remembered from Aryton Senna's 1991 Pole. I don't think that happened with Rfactor2. But I agree Rfactor2 gives you more feed back from the wheel. ASM2 tends to be more smooth, but more predictable, so maybe a tendency to correct faster and catch it quicker, making you less likely to loss control.
what kind of wheel and gear are you using for this to compare with? i ask because if you use a trustmaster t80 (just a example) or a direct drive wheel the result will be very different...
rF2...we can't compare realism with AMS2. AMS2 it's fun, but I go for a ride and I quit..I'm having so much more fun with rF2. I hope they improve even better the UI and the content.
Hi Ermin, do you think rFactor2 is the province of high end DD setups or is there something for us guys with much smaller budgets and belt driven wheels made by, ahem, Thrustmaster, please excuse me 🤣 Seriously what do you think? (I do have a load cell on my brake pedal even if I put it there myself) your input gratefully received or anyone else ???
Thank you for the excellent video review. I own AMS2 and am cautiously optimistic. The one thing I wish reviewers would do is to specify the level of equipment they are using (as Mike at SimRacing604 does). We don’t all run direct-drive wheels and purpose-built sim rigs, and games react so differently depending on the equipment. I have been sim racing since 1999, own a 12 year-old Fanatec CSR on a wheel stand and an IKEA chair. Given my years playing, I am sufficiently competitive; but obviously in a different league to the direct-drive brigade in terms of fine tuning the FFB. I have so much respect for ACC as I could get my wheel to run beautifully despite the complex physics of that game.
AMS2 has had multiple updates since arriving on Steam, it is not the same game as last week, just improving by leaps and bounds. If math is correct, 8 updates in 6 weeks or so, that is all you need to know about AMS2, it is Early release and it is being updated like mad, and exactly on what us racers have brought up. I can't believe how good this game is, to me on my wheel, it is hands down the best racing in VR I have done, Even days old reviews are no longer valid this games development is moving so fast.
Also, if you like F1 and Prototypes, man they drive fantastic... that being said, this is a sim and very lively on gas, they've really addressed brakes in last update. Some of the slower cars don't do much for me, but the open wheel are the best I've driven, sense of speed is crazy good. Karts are off the charts, look up my Karting Video from Brazil and it will show you just how good it can be.
If AMS2 had more then one or two cars I wanna drive I’d probably buy it and try it. Great ffb, good physics, beautiful graphics and dynamic weather doesn’t mean anything to me if I can’t drive the cars I want. And not just one of the cars I want. I want as close to full fields as possible. Those cars would be> Group C Group 4 Group 5 Group 6 GTO GTU Late 90-2000s GT1-GT2 70s Prototypes 70s GT LeMans Sebring Daytona Road ATL Mid Ohio Long Beach Del Mar Spa Nordschleife
rF2's FFB is still the king I think. I still play many other titles instead of rF2 mostly for the fun and convenience. I agree on most of your points, but add the caveat (as you did) that it's still early days for AMS2 yet. They patch it every week with improvement. And I'm enjoying the ride.
Great comparison. I feel similar as you with these to. Ams2 is easier to drive and RF2 still feels the most engaging and life like. The curbs are brutal in RF2. And makes me wonder if they really feel like that pulling you in as no other sim feels that abrupt. Anyway great stuff!
Great comparison. My PC's mobo died on day 1 of Lockdown, so I can't play either of these right now! Hopefully A2 can raise its game to RF2 levels though.
Unfortunately I returned ams2 before my hour was up. I couldn't get either triples or my dd1 setup to a happy standard. Edited: after seeing good reviews I gave it another shot. Triples sorted and ffb feels really good. Not sure what hell I was doing before. Brakes are still a little off, still a little over steer on throttle on exit, and a slightly strange moving sensation like PC2 though this is only slight and in heavier cars (massively than PC2, I hated the feel of that game). Open wheelers are awesome. It's great fun and glad I gave it another shot. Oh and sounds on most cars are bad. But definitely going to be on this loads.
This is highly inadvisable except for a couple of specific wheels that are temporarily having issues. 50 is the "linear" setting and should be used always for all controller configurations unless you have really bad hardware (e.g., old Logitech G25 brake pedal with so little travel that it needs some help with a non-linear mapping).
@@marccollins1445 T300 here. Still broken on 50 for me. 100 instantly feels right compared to other sims. Probably a bug that will get sorted soon. Also accelerator is better on 100 as you get the full range of control. Brakes on 10. I am using g27 pedals with the T300 though.
AMS2 v1.0 should really be considered v0.98.0 since the game was rushed to v1.0 simply because they wanted to say they were out of early access. "v1.0" is still very unpolished and has several known major bugs that Reiza were aware of but released it anyway.
Except that in Rf2 the fastest way to get most cars around the track is with a ridiculous amount of slip angle, detached ARB.... Pissing away the most communicative FFB of all sims by allowing BS handling like that to be faster.
They could have made an evolution of AMS but they chose to go for a new engine. People were horrified by the arcade handling and they are trying to get closer to original AMS handling. Surely the sim will evolve even further but this is the situation right now and don't expect AMS 2 to evolve into a king of physics by final release.
@@CaseTheCorvetteMan Apparently the new one is better suited to Need for Speed. At least the original made the cars handle real sweeeeet and the handling was actually also challenging to drive, you had to be on top of your game.
@@CaseTheCorvetteMan Out of date? lol What is out of date is games calling themselves a sim when they are clearly simcade like AMS2. Who cares how long some computer code is out if it is great? Your statement is completely irrelevant and without deductive reasoning. Hey! The wheel was invented around 3500BC. That is much older technology. Is it too old to still be of use? Of course not! ps...AMS has better physics BECAUSE of the rF1 engine.
The realism King is Live for Speed. No one can compete in terms of physics and FFB. Very close to reality. When I tried Live for Speed and then AMS or rFactor 2, I feel like I’m driving a soap and not a car 😅
See, in real life there is per car only 1 feel. Also there is only 1 circuit. In gamingl and we have RF2, AMS, R3E, AC, ACC, AMS2 and wel all claim it being simulators while they all feel, look and sound different. In the end: just play the game you like and call it whatever you want to call it...simulator...simcade...arcade. Who cares. We are just playing games
It ok, rFactor 2 has only had 7 years of early access (still waiting for more features in the new rF2 UI, I don’t consider it a finished experience)... AMS2 is only 1 month in to EA, I’m sure it’ll pass rF2 as the 5th most popular Steam racing sim. 🙃
Based on Automobilista, I'd say they would have to use the rFactor 2 game engine to have a comparison. AM 1 simply sucked ass. Why don't you compare Starbucks and Folgers next!
Answer: ACC if we are talking about Realism. Otherwise, if we are talking about the whole experience we can get, than we can do a comparison between the two titles
Funny you mention that. I just reinstalled ACC to try it with the DD1 and ended up hating it more than ever. What most sims give me in sheer joy, that game gives me the opposite. It's laboursome and unresponsive, with a tremendously banal tyre model. But it goes to show, different strokes for different folks.
@@Ermz agree. spent so much time trying to get a great FFB feel, and realized it's impossible. nice graphics, but it doesn't make up for the feel. would have preferred AC with the graphics improvement. another game that was a waste of $
Nice comparison. I am quite sure though that actually AMS2 grass is more realistic than RF2's. Cause grass is not perfectly flat like the track itself, and so In real life you will see cars bouncing around on grass, especially when you drive with 100km/h+ over them. I am pretty sure that 'the little explosions you feel when driving on the grass' are there to simulate the effects when driving into grass at fast speeds.
Comparing the Mitsubishi which is basically a road car to a race car of course the FFB is going to feel more muted. It doesn't mean it is less realistic. you should compare the same cars only on the same track otherwise you are introducing a bunch of variables that you don't know about. Also sounds to me your LFB value is wrong. To be fair, there is still some work to do but flat spots are there. You need about 70 LFB to feel them but they are there. Also, cars being harder doesn't make them more realistic. Some cars (V10 included) seem to have a bit too much grip but that doesn't mean it is wrong. These cars, besides being a different car (with AMS2 having TC due to the year of the car it is based on) were meant to be drivable for two hours at a time. They were not easy to drive but you certainly didn't get accute loss of traction all of the sudden. I find the rFactor 2 model too unforgiving for instance and based on my limited track experience (with a radical and a caterham) I find the AMS 2 model closer to what racing tires feel.
Awesome comparison. The only thing I'd say is you could make this video in a year and it might look completely different. AMS2 is still very much a work in progress.
You should check witch cars in AMS2 re closer to final state to get more polished experience when it comes to FFB, physic, feel ... Also comparing MIT and BMW doesnt tell you much .. I know you worked with what you do .. Try comparing the same cars. Take them from reiza bundle for rF2 .. I think some of those should be more finalized in AMS2 as well ... otherwise you are dealing with pc2 feeling mixing into it ..
![[UA] Team Vitality проти NAVI | IEM Cologne 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wttO1zVRTC0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #1 НАЧАЛО ПУТЕШЕСТВИЯ [Новый сезон] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/380Q7gLWGvk/mqdefault.jpg)
"When the sim dispenses with player hand-holding in order to render a more realistic driving experience, you generally know you're onto a winner."
pretty sure that was the quote that forced my hand to click buy. I love that this thing uses aesthetics from MS's 1976 flight sim. Take one lap and you'll see where the R&D went.
Ermz who mastered some of my favorite records does sim racing too? Thats a win-win, keep it up!
Appreciate the detailed comparison! Could you do one between ACC and rF2 GT cars?
Considering Ams2 is still being developed it's a little unfair at this stage to compare! ams2 are bringing out revisions almost daily I suggest you revisit this comparison at least until after launch
Considering AMS2 is still in early access and probably has a good 6-8 months till it's a more fully baked title it may be a bit premature to make this comparison as I think there is a lot of car/track tuning that needs to happen in AMS2. Possibly returning to this a little after AMS2 has been fully released will give a better comparison.
Try another year or two that's including squashing the bugs out from Pcars2
I would hope that it will not be as long an amount of time to be measured in years!
After giving it 4hrs I gave up it's too buggy for me I refunded the game. I do have faith in Reiza but not the choice of game engine they chose. They should of went with RF2 engine. They put their bets on an unproven engine that's known for bugs and the community is responding appropriately.
100% agreed, this is already out of date 3 weeks later, please make this more obvious in the videos title/description! :)
This comment aged very well
Outstanding video. I am familiar with all the tracks and cars showcased here in both sims, having spent quite a lot of time with them as they are some of my favourite, and have to agree with your conclusion. At this point rF2 physics and FFB feels more refined. I still enjoy AMS2 a lot and it will improve. Another car on a whole different level in rF2 is the Porsche Cup. Please make other non obvious cross-sim analysis: this is very interesting, original and rarely done. PS: the MP4 f1 car is terrifying to drive
The cup car is outstanding. It completely up-ends my understanding of driving with its crazy tendency to under/over steer while varying between states of braking, coast and power. It takes about a day to stop crashing on the first lap before I can use it, and afterwards I'm slower in every other car. I truly hate the car as much as I love the amazing job they did modeling it.
@@Ermz Default setup is very unstable and problematic. I suggest to use this one: forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/porsche-cup-ai.64187/page-3#post-1020891. It makes the car much more stable without altering its character.
AM2 is fantastic, and still has a lot to improve, as it is a receiving release that will be updated for a long time. Sensational physics, beautiful graphics, and soon it will be the best simulator available. Congratulations Reiza !!
Yeah i hope they dont make the same mistakes as in ams1.
I think they are on the good track.
@@DEracingx mistakes?
I'll admit i have only just picked up ams2 but the graphics are in no way beatifull, they are very dated
I think this video was way too early to make. You should have compared the exactly same cars, using Reiza DLC. There is a difference in FFB within the AMS2, and it's still in Ea, so we don't know what will change.
I just drove VIR in rain with MCR, and the FFB in AMS2 is excellent - rumble on straights, more agressive vibrations depending on kerb roughness, lockup feel etc. BUT - Lancer RS has significantly less feedback on kerbs, almost none. Not sure if it's because of softer suspension and setup, or if it's not a finished car yet.
AMS2 is too forgiving and easy to drive in wet. But if I had to choose between rF2 +10% realism and AMS2 weather, diverse content, UI, updates and overall fun, I would play AMS2. And it's still in EA. rF2 is here 7 YEARS and still far from perfect...
Agree. I already wrote my thoughts above about the details. But, yes, road cars have tall and soft suspensions compared to race cars. As it happens, the MCR S2000 may be one of the vehicles that needs a tweak to tone down the sharpness of its feedback. It should be similar to its sister car, the MRX. However, depending on how your wheel is set-up, you might think the MRX is off and the MCR is better. Reiza is the master of balancing and calibrating all this stuff and will do so here prior to the actual release of v1.0. I can drive every car in AMS with the same FFB setting and they all feel like they are in the same physics universe and all feel appropriate relative to each other. 8 years later in rF2 I still cannot do this.
Your reply tells me that your the type of person that Reiza is listening to for the feel of the sim. personally prefer to feel what the cars front wheels are doing on the road surface to know when on the limit of front end grip while turning and trail braking.
rumble on straights, aggressive vibrations depending on kerb roughness, is far from feeling like a true sim, all that information will drown out the important details of grip when on the limit in corners.
shame they didn't decide to add arcade mode for those who believe the jerking going on in the wheel means great FFB.
the pendulum effect is a joke, and can't believe it's in a 2020 game.
as the game is now, it would have been better if it was developed into a drifting title.
@@keckz92 To avoid starting endless discussion about ffb, I will tell you this: I think the best ffb in sims is in rF2 and AMS1. The rest is worse with their own advantages and disadvantages. But I don't have a problem with AMS2, I know what the car is doing. It's certainly better than ACC at some situations. Physics however are a different story...
rFactor 2 has an excellent weather system, an upcoming UI overhaul, consistent updates, fairly regular paid and free content releases, and tons of great mods. If you find AMS2 more fun, I’m not trying to convince you otherwise, but you may want to give rF2 a second look.
@@jamesmathai1138 I give rF2 a "second look" all the time. I play it for a while, then some old bug pisses me off, and I go to other sims. Recently developer priorities have been pissing off the community, the paid content is rushed. Nobody has listened that Nurburgring needs optimization yet they gladly take the money. Just read the forums about endless problems S397 ignores.
The FFB has already been modified and feel much more similar to rFactor 2.
Yup, RF2 about to die.
cool video, subbed! I just wished AMS2 was built on the RF2 engine like AMS1 was on RF1 engine.
They are all built from the same original ISI engine, in case you did not know. rF is the son of rFPro. rF2 is an off-shoot of rF. AMS is an off-shoot of rF. Madness is an off-shoot of rF. AMS' advancements over rF are so obvious within 10 seconds of driving. AMS (1) has hard core features that rF2 (and AMS 2 temporarily!!!!) does not have. Madness has features that rF2 does not have. Every dev can choose to continue to develop and focus on various elements as they see fit, but the "genes" are all the same source.
@@marccollins1445 Madness being based on ISI engine is an urban legend I think. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Space_Incorporated
I wished the same @Jonas Windey , but i think thet did the winning move!
Waiting on the finished AMS 2 review vs Rfactor as their FFB has been updated quite abit!
If you think there is a lack of feedback in AMS 2, you haven't configured your wheel/FFB properly. It's a bit tricky to configure at this EA state, but lack of micro or macro detail is not one of the issues. And, the two "road" cars you tested are completely different vehicles, so it should be a complete coincidence if they ended-up with the same lap times (is the BMW AWD?). Unfortunately, AMS 2 is not yet in a polished or convenient state (for controller and FFB set-up among many other issues). Let's say at 2 months prior to release, it is approximately where rF2 was 2 or 3 YEARS after its release... (I was there from day 1 of beta and lived through it all.) Some of us have FFB and handling equal or superior to rF2 already. It requires some experimentation with settings to "balance" Gain versus "LFB," which is probably badly named since it is not the "low forces boost" of other titles. It is more complex and does not mask any regular forces. Likewise, all road and chassis feedback is present even if "FX" is set to zero, but you can get more if you prefer by adding with that slider. I do look forward to your thoughtful and technically-relevant review and comparison of AMS 2 in about two to three months time :)
Marc Collins I agree with you. I’ve been with rF2 from the very beginning (Zane rF1, for that matter). AMS2, with properly tuned Low Force Boost (I use 60-80 on my TSXW), has detailed FFB that is very similar to rF2. I’m guessing the reviewer had the force boost set way too low.
FFB should be one slider like in rF2 for forces. Having multiple adjustments like AMS2 is a flawed system that tries to add what is not there in the code in a canned effect way.
Defend it it all you want but I don't have much hopes for a POS engine from Pcars
@@blotmaster1 I agree that if possible, fewer sliders are better. There are no canned effects in any of the existing sliders in AMS 2. They have all been removed by Reiza.
First thanks for taking the time to make it,Ive got all the Sims and enjoy them all,love sebring on RF2,Road America on AC exc....Some car and track combos are better on certain sims,Some people think graphics are important,some thinks physics,some think both.I think as a sim racer we are blessed to have so many sims to choose from.I enjoyed watching these vidios.
One thing i know for sure is which one is the King of UI.
Great vid mate, one new sub here!
You should do the rF2 review again with the latest ASR F1 91 MP4/6, as they have really improved it. And then compare the AMS2 F-V10 Gen 2 with a suitable Custom FFB seatings file to be able to feel the full effect of a more detailed FDB experience.
The one thing I feel in rf2 that I don't in any other sim is an effect that I don't know the name of, but I'm going to call "brake caster." When you get heavy into the brakes in rfactor2, especially in a car with wide tires, you can feel the steering well try to return to center. Release the brake, and you can turn the car back in with less effort. No other sim I've driven yet seems to even try to capture this effect.
wow yes i agree and this is huge. No other still even today after 1 year?
@@robben896 nope
Your word combination are F-ing awesome. I am going to sub just because you sound very intelligent.
Good on yah m8!
Keep this up
If you too want to sound intelligent you will lose all forms of swearing in your posts, including short forms.
The formula V10 in ams has traction controll so the forgiving factor might be exegarated because of that.
I wanted to come here ND say that this is the best review video I've ever seen, until your FFB comments on AMS, I haven't tired that combo but I'm sceptical that the FFB is as dull as you are making it out to be
Edit': Apart from that, man you gave do much info and went into so mu h detail. Looking forward to more. This is how you do a review. Big up
I would love this comparison with AMS1
Please do this. 😉
Ams 1 had great flatspotting i wonder why they got rid of it 🤔
rF2 >AMS1>AMS2
@@ryanmazumder4535 They didn't. AMS1 was based on rFactor and AMS 2 is based on pCars2. What they are trying to achieve is AMS1 quality with pCars 2 graphics. So far it has taken many steps towards that but still miles to go.
@@DEracingx For the moment it is like that
What wheel you drive with? Like your sense of explaining things! Subbed!
Hey Ermin, as an amateur racing channel myself, I am pretty surprised (at UA-cam) that I haven't been recommended your Channel before?. I just read your ABOUT INFO TAB, and it "could be?" because you do RPG video's as well, and that I don't normally watch rF2 video's either. But as a person that has to agree with almost everything you say about AMS2, you might have just solely convinced me to finally give rF2 a try as well. I can tell you for sure though, that what keeps putting me off in both Raceroom & I always hear the same in rFactor 2, is the very confusing UI & non-intuitive setup pages for wheels, FFB, etc. I am very impressed by your discussion piece video here - so will subscribe - but just wanted to ask you if you have any R3E or RF2 FFB setup guides in your past video library?. Thanks for this very interested video... CHEERS
You need to do this again, ams2 improved lots this year.
Now this is a comparison that is done very well! Your comparison is THE reason not to buy AMS2, despite the fact I really enjoyed AMS. Instead I went for the BMW in RF2, and I am enjoying it immensely.
set a race up il beat you easy
@@ceff01 Bruh what did he do to u? And plus lol
Great vid! Which wheel do u use? Also, ffb in ams2 is really good in some cars e not that good on others... the level of detail is very different
Great video, Ermin. Are you planning on trying this again now that AMS2 has had another update? Do you plan on doing this every time AMS2 gets a new update? I believe the most recent update in AMS2 added the finer inputs.
Thanks for the comparison! Deffo not the best physics yet Has to be said. Ams2 is so fun and engaging tho just like youve said. So much potential! Why does anyone play sims if not to have fun? Too much hate for a potential future world beater with perfect vr performance, fun and unusual cars to drive and incredible and believable weather effects! Tell me annother game that handles all of these things as well as ams2!
I agree. There is something really fun with AMS2, where you can sit back with a cold beverage and just relax. Whereas rf2, you would definitely be more frustrated. I feel AMS2 physics is there or there abouts, but maybe the FFB is not up to par yet. Its good, but they just need to tweak it a bit before final release. AMS1 still has better FFB to me.
The graphics in AMS2 is amazing though. rf2 has its moments with its clean clinical true to life look, but wow, AMS2 is another level. I never played PC2 so this is the first ive seen of engine, but wow, it looks so good.
True! The ffb was made for the G29 as a place holder. Is going to be much better in the near future
@@jiltjes try 30-40 gain ; 80 low force ; 30-50 FX in AMS2 options. works great that way for my g27! . also i put spring effect and damper to 0 in the logitech profiler.
I’m regulary play ACC and refunded ams2 in 15mins. Graphic is amazing, physical model also acceptable, what force me to refund it was the lack of some more usual and known cars&tracks.
@@arrakis101010 unlucky
Cool Video! And I agree with all but maybe one statement, that off-roading a formula one car wouldnt feel like tiny explosives under your car. As someone who has personally driven his formula car off the track many times, I can tell you that the stiff suspension, doubled with how low to the ground you are, makes for a VERY uncomfortable ride. It's incredibly easy to go off track and lose all control because any type of bump off road, will either take your car off the ground, or completely bottom it out. Just wanted to give you the feedback on how that really feels :) Keep up the good videos!
How does the first Automobilista compare with these two?
I would be really interested to know how you think Automobilista 1 compares with these two sims. I think it would be an interesting comparison particularly as I think AMS1 used the rFactor game/physics engine.
Great comparison video. Your other video on the new FFB and brake update (v0.8.4.0) convinced me to get AMS2.
Hello and sorry to bother you Ermin , Maybe could help me out. i love F1 racing games and so far I'm struggling to find one to drive. I have Asseto Corsa and there are several F1 mods but few Online leagues. i have a reasonable setup with a G27 and a playseat challenge , but since i play racing games with VR ( automobilista 2 for example ) and because i don't have a triple monitor setup after i tried VR i cannot play without it, i've seen the Real mod for F12020 but its really not optimized . Do you have any suggestions ? Automobilista 2 seems to be a good alternative but it lacks on leagues or even the official tracks . I know that its a difficult question but im asking you since you have some experience in sim racing xD
I got ASM2 today, It was weird, I was correcting, and I didn't know why I was correcting, it was like instinctual. Maybe ASM2 gives you a good subconscious information how the car handles via the feedback on the steering. I also got into a correcting position at Adelaide which I remembered from Aryton Senna's 1991 Pole. I don't think that happened with Rfactor2. But I agree Rfactor2 gives you more feed back from the wheel. ASM2 tends to be more smooth, but more predictable, so maybe a tendency to correct faster and catch it quicker, making you less likely to loss control.
what kind of wheel and gear are you using for this to compare with? i ask because if you use a trustmaster t80 (just a example) or a direct drive wheel the result will be very different...
Do agree ...great content...question what do think about the 2 now with the current AM2 update
Or instead of using the abs forces through the wheel, why not get a load cell brake from fanatec or a hydraulic brake from heusinkveld?
the one and only king - ACC
gt3 is boring
Agree with lit. Good sim but boring.
rF2...we can't compare realism with AMS2. AMS2 it's fun, but I go for a ride and I quit..I'm having so much more fun with rF2. I hope they improve even better the UI and the content.
Hi Ermin, do you think rFactor2 is the province of high end DD setups or is there something for us guys with much smaller budgets and belt driven wheels made by, ahem, Thrustmaster, please excuse me 🤣 Seriously what do you think? (I do have a load cell on my brake pedal even if I put it there myself) your input gratefully received or anyone else ???
Yo. Can you do this comparison again with the new force-feed back model in ams2?
Thank you for the excellent video review. I own AMS2 and am cautiously optimistic. The one thing I wish reviewers would do is to specify the level of equipment they are using (as Mike at SimRacing604 does). We don’t all run direct-drive wheels and purpose-built sim rigs, and games react so differently depending on the equipment.
I have been sim racing since 1999, own a 12 year-old Fanatec CSR on a wheel stand and an IKEA chair. Given my years playing, I am sufficiently competitive; but obviously in a different league to the direct-drive brigade in terms of fine tuning the FFB. I have so much respect for ACC as I could get my wheel to run beautifully despite the complex physics of that game.
It's time for you to do the test again now the FFB has been updated. Oh yes, you did :)
AMS2 has had multiple updates since arriving on Steam, it is not the same game as last week, just improving by leaps and bounds. If math is correct, 8 updates in 6 weeks or so, that is all you need to know about AMS2, it is Early release and it is being updated like mad, and exactly on what us racers have brought up. I can't believe how good this game is, to me on my wheel, it is hands down the best racing in VR I have done, Even days old reviews are no longer valid this games development is moving so fast.
Also, if you like F1 and Prototypes, man they drive fantastic... that being said, this is a sim and very lively on gas, they've really addressed brakes in last update. Some of the slower cars don't do much for me, but the open wheel are the best I've driven, sense of speed is crazy good. Karts are off the charts, look up my Karting Video from Brazil and it will show you just how good it can be.
The FFB of AMS2 has much improved since this video tho
If AMS2 had more then one or two cars I wanna drive I’d probably buy it and try it. Great ffb, good physics, beautiful graphics and dynamic weather doesn’t mean anything to me if I can’t drive the cars I want. And not just one of the cars I want. I want as close to full fields as possible.
Those cars would be>
Group C
Group 4
Group 5
Group 6
GTO
GTU
Late 90-2000s GT1-GT2
70s Prototypes
70s GT
LeMans
Sebring
Daytona
Road ATL
Mid Ohio
Long Beach
Del Mar
Spa
Nordschleife
Very good review. Held your decision till the very end 😉
rF2's FFB is still the king I think. I still play many other titles instead of rF2 mostly for the fun and convenience.
I agree on most of your points, but add the caveat (as you did) that it's still early days for AMS2 yet. They patch it every week with improvement. And I'm enjoying the ride.
Great comparison. I feel similar as you with these to. Ams2 is easier to drive and RF2 still feels the most engaging and life like. The curbs are brutal in RF2. And makes me wonder if they really feel like that pulling you in as no other sim feels that abrupt. Anyway great stuff!
rF2 is very very configurable. You need to go into your controller json file and edit under Force Feedback the "Rumble strip pull factor#".
blotmaster1 that’s right. I forgot about that. Thanks
@@TJRSIM Your welcome :)
rFactor 2 is still the King. You truly are the King of kings Juda Ben Hur.
I absolutely love your simracing content! Go on :)
Great comparison. My PC's mobo died on day 1 of Lockdown, so I can't play either of these right now! Hopefully A2 can raise its game to RF2 levels though.
Sorry to hear about the PC problem,timing sucks...Hope you get it fixed soon!
Unfortunately I returned ams2 before my hour was up. I couldn't get either triples or my dd1 setup to a happy standard.
Edited: after seeing good reviews I gave it another shot. Triples sorted and ffb feels really good. Not sure what hell I was doing before. Brakes are still a little off, still a little over steer on throttle on exit, and a slightly strange moving sensation like PC2 though this is only slight and in heavier cars (massively than PC2, I hated the feel of that game). Open wheelers are awesome. It's great fun and glad I gave it another shot. Oh and sounds on most cars are bad. But definitely going to be on this loads.
Has AMS2 improved much since release/this video was made?
You should take up writing as well, the words and placement choices kept me wanting to hear more.
great video
exactly my thoughts
What car is that at 8:19?
Another class vid. Excellent content.
Mate what was your in game ffb settings
Make sure you change steering sensitivity from 50 to 100. Transforms the ffb.
This is highly inadvisable except for a couple of specific wheels that are temporarily having issues. 50 is the "linear" setting and should be used always for all controller configurations unless you have really bad hardware (e.g., old Logitech G25 brake pedal with so little travel that it needs some help with a non-linear mapping).
@@marccollins1445 T300 here. Still broken on 50 for me. 100 instantly feels right compared to other sims. Probably a bug that will get sorted soon. Also accelerator is better on 100 as you get the full range of control. Brakes on 10. I am using g27 pedals with the T300 though.
AMS2 v1.0 should really be considered v0.98.0 since the game was rushed to v1.0 simply because they wanted to say they were out of early access. "v1.0" is still very unpolished and has several known major bugs that Reiza were aware of but released it anyway.
Every sim that tries to compete with RFactor 2 in realism will have an uphill battle and will lose
Except that in Rf2 the fastest way to get most cars around the track is with a ridiculous amount of slip angle, detached ARB.... Pissing away the most communicative FFB of all sims by allowing BS handling like that to be faster.
Kind of a bit early to be making these sort of calls.... One is incomplete and not out of pre-release... The other has been out for years...
They could have made an evolution of AMS but they chose to go for a new engine.
People were horrified by the arcade handling and they are trying to get closer to original AMS handling.
Surely the sim will evolve even further but this is the situation right now and don't expect AMS 2 to evolve into a king of physics by final release.
The engine AMS uses is about 7-10 years out of date.
@@CaseTheCorvetteMan Apparently the new one is better suited to Need for Speed.
At least the original made the cars handle real sweeeeet and the handling was actually also challenging to drive, you had to be on top of your game.
Do you race real cars?
@@CaseTheCorvetteMan Out of date? lol What is out of date is games calling themselves a sim when they are clearly simcade like AMS2. Who cares how long some computer code is out if it is great? Your statement is completely irrelevant and without deductive reasoning.
Hey! The wheel was invented around 3500BC. That is much older technology. Is it too old to still be of use? Of course not!
ps...AMS has better physics BECAUSE of the rF1 engine.
These two titles are more authentic than ACC?
The realism King is Live for Speed. No one can compete in terms of physics and FFB. Very close to reality. When I tried Live for Speed and then AMS or rFactor 2, I feel like I’m driving a soap and not a car 😅
And people are still sleeping on Automobilista 1
RF2 is the king of physics, period
See, in real life there is per car only 1 feel. Also there is only 1 circuit. In gamingl and we have RF2, AMS, R3E, AC, ACC, AMS2 and wel all claim it being simulators while they all feel, look and sound different.
In the end: just play the game you like and call it whatever you want to call it...simulator...simcade...arcade. Who cares. We are just playing games
Excellent video , give AMS2 a chance is far from what it will end up as.
Los gráficos son una parte muy importante del realismo del juego. No se puede hablar de simulación realista con gráficos que no lo son.
Is iRacing better than those two games?
Only for the competitive online racing which is awesome. Rf2 is better for actual driving experience imo.
Hard to hear your voice between the music beats.
Are you compraring rF2 with AMS2??? Really???. rF2 is the best ever. No point
funny how the 1st ams for me is totally on par if not better than rf2
Iracing And Assetto Corsa.
Cool vid man.. definite subscribe for me
Time for an update after the FFB update.
Try Indycar on Project Cars 2
It ok, rFactor 2 has only had 7 years of early access (still waiting for more features in the new rF2 UI, I don’t consider it a finished experience)... AMS2 is only 1 month in to EA, I’m sure it’ll pass rF2 as the 5th most popular Steam racing sim. 🙃
Based on Automobilista, I'd say they would have to use the rFactor 2 game engine to have a comparison. AM 1 simply sucked ass. Why don't you compare Starbucks and Folgers next!
Starbucks? Seriously? Why would you drink that overpriced swill? Why would you drink Folgers either?
@@blotmaster1 stay on target! Stay on target! I can't wait to see what you consider good coffee!
@@PizzaChet Enjoy your swill. :)
Do this again with the latest update
I still vote for Atari's Enduro.
I'm going to give AMS2 some time to bake. I'm sure it'll get better in time.
Rfactor 2 has mod support, AM2 doesn't.
*case closed*
This vid is about realism. Considering most mods are built by people without direct access to cars/data mods would make it less realistic
@d c refined and pulished? Jajajaja
Yea, but then again nothing compares to Rf2 physics, all the other sims fall way short .
Assetto Corsa Competizione wins the realism battle lol
Assetto corsa competizione is a arcade game compared to rf2 and the first Assetto corsa
Assetto Corsa Cometisione is Sim-Cade
Answer: ACC if we are talking about Realism. Otherwise, if we are talking about the whole experience we can get, than we can do a comparison between the two titles
Funny you mention that. I just reinstalled ACC to try it with the DD1 and ended up hating it more than ever. What most sims give me in sheer joy, that game gives me the opposite. It's laboursome and unresponsive, with a tremendously banal tyre model. But it goes to show, different strokes for different folks.
ACC ??? It must be a joke
@@Ermz
agree. spent so much time trying to get a great FFB feel, and realized it's impossible.
nice graphics, but it doesn't make up for the feel.
would have preferred AC with the graphics improvement.
another game that was a waste of $
Well it seems a matter of preference. I cant play other games once i’ve tried Acc..
Nice comparison. I am quite sure though that actually AMS2 grass is more realistic than RF2's. Cause grass is not perfectly flat like the track itself, and so In real life you will see cars bouncing around on grass, especially when you drive with 100km/h+ over them. I am pretty sure that 'the little explosions you feel when driving on the grass' are there to simulate the effects when driving into grass at fast speeds.
With AC not being a money dump - I still play regular AC
Erm Assetto Corsa?
AMS2 VR tweeked is best
where is the mclaren?
great now bring the project cars content to ams2
AMS2 is beta the other one has been there for years. AMS2 is better in VR because it runs smoother.
R Factor 2 Vs Ams 2 Vs Iracing ?
I think iRacing, being a simcade, does not apply.
@@BeckMax IRacing a Simcade? Bollocks.
Comparing the Mitsubishi which is basically a road car to a race car of course the FFB is going to feel more muted. It doesn't mean it is less realistic. you should compare the same cars only on the same track otherwise you are introducing a bunch of variables that you don't know about.
Also sounds to me your LFB value is wrong. To be fair, there is still some work to do but flat spots are there. You need about 70 LFB to feel them but they are there.
Also, cars being harder doesn't make them more realistic. Some cars (V10 included) seem to have a bit too much grip but that doesn't mean it is wrong. These cars, besides being a different car (with AMS2 having TC due to the year of the car it is based on) were meant to be drivable for two hours at a time. They were not easy to drive but you certainly didn't get accute loss of traction all of the sudden. I find the rFactor 2 model too unforgiving for instance and based on my limited track experience (with a radical and a caterham) I find the AMS 2 model closer to what racing tires feel.
Awesome comparison. The only thing I'd say is you could make this video in a year and it might look completely different. AMS2 is still very much a work in progress.
Assetto Corsa Copmetizione is my response - sorry
How disappointing so much potential with AM2 but they failed to deliver RF2 is still with all its fault the undisputed KING
AMS2 is early acess , rFactor2 was made years a go , so ....
You called the BMW 'lumbering'? They feel lumbering in simulations but in real life they are awesome. Anyway, interested comparison by a rF2 fanboi.
You should check witch cars in AMS2 re closer to final state to get more polished experience when it comes to FFB, physic, feel ... Also comparing MIT and BMW doesnt tell you much .. I know you worked with what you do ..
Try comparing the same cars. Take them from reiza bundle for rF2 .. I think some of those should be more finalized in AMS2 as well ... otherwise you are dealing with pc2 feeling mixing into it ..
Rfactor 2 !