BRICK - Thin vs Traditional - Get the details right!
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- Опубліковано 16 бер 2020
- In this episode The Build Show sponsored by www.dorken.com/en/ we'll be discussing the differences between traditional brick and thin brick which gets installed almost like stucco on the outside of your house.
Link to article by Joe Lstiburek - www.buildingscience.com/docum...
and another by Dr Joe worth reading
www.buildingscience.com/docum...
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I really enjoy how you explain things not only for fellow construction pros, but also for casual watchers, do-it-yourselfers, and everyone in between. Thank you, Matt!
Last minutes summary really showed the value of the product, thanks Matt.
Matt thank you so much for doing videos like this! Love to learn about the technology behind proper building techniques.
Excellent discussion, Matt. Thanks so much! Rick
Love the information on thin 🧱. Thank you
Love it Matt! These are your bread and butter videos!! Keep em coming/bring them back!
I personally like the thin brick, but not necessarily for a whole house install. I like using it on the foundation. You can apply it straight to it with no fuss. It gives it that timeless/farmhouse look
Awesome video, very technical in nature. I'd like to see a video on the cost of zip board versus traditional particle board penalty expense really worth it I know you've done videos on this once in the past what's a direct comparison underneath a stucco finish it's a little bit more of the Deep dive
Great video!
Matt, with PROSOCO as a sponsor (great products btw) am curious as to why their liquid masonry sealers were not mentioned as a method to greatly reduce moisture intrusion? (Applied after facade system has cured out.)
'If it can't dry - it will DIE!!!!' Great illustration Matt.
One of my favorite quotes from David Nicastro!
I grew up with a bricklayer, so prefer regular brick. But thanks for another great show and showing me an option that may work for me later.
Really surprised that you haven't done a video on Earthship homes. VERY VERY unique!!
Bricks - with tile cement - held onto plastic, and plastic - with a few screws - held onto wood.
😱😱😱
What could go wrong?!
Agreed, if you want something durable, skip the bricks entirely, go for ICF with rebar
Best channel!
Never been a fan of thin brick. It doesn’t allow for decorative brick detailing. Unless you were to get alot of custom pieces. There are also thin brick systems with tracks where where you slip the brick into the track. This is another alternative to getting an air barrier with thin brick.
do you know brand name of that system?
Omg grade requirements my first hiccup on my 1st build 😵 looks like my existing foundation wont meet current code ...sitting here watching your channel convincing myself the added expense is bitter sweet .. Sux cuz my entire frame budget is about to be spent on concrete but i can now re- arrange things better ...
Love that! My girl and I are tile people.
Matt, thoughts on Speedy Mason thin brick installation panels. I am using them in a couple of months for my first floor exterior. Faux stone for 2nd floor.
Worth noting that certain types of stucco finish like Acrylic and certain traditional plasters are functionally waterproof or hydrophobic. You can have this kind of siding without the wet sponge effect.
Interesting. Finally, a comment that conveys useful information. I'll looks this up.
Yes, good comment. Can you tell us more about the names of those particular stucco manufacturers or any other identifying/purchasing info?
@@ivanhannel There are a number of manufacturers for synthetic acrylic stucco. The ones I've used are Decoplast and BMI. It will be more expensive than standard cementitious stucco finishes.
For a more traditional option, you can apply a lime plaster that is then burnished and sealed with natural oils. This will be fairly expensive to do, as it requires a skilled applicator to make the end product waterproof, and it will require some periodic resealing.
"We'll see you next time."?!? What happened to "On the Build Show!"... My world has been rocked...
I used Glenn Gery's thin brick system on my garage dormer. It is a sheet metal formed substrate and the thin brick is glued on. Then the joints are mortared. I used it for the lighter weight on the dormer. The rest of the garage is real brick. I did cut my own thin brick from full size bricks.
Well, yeah, you can tell thin brick from normal brick if you know what to look for. Normal brick should have depth around door and window cutouts. Use of brick on a pop-out where normal brick isn't feasible is a dead giveaway that you can see from down the street... no need to even get up close and personal.
dlwatib
Yet it is considered acceptable. More ” lick and stick”
What barrier would be best on the wood sheeting before the dimple mat goes on? Self healing peal and stick?
Anything you would do for stucco should work here. It's basically a 3-coat stucco system with the 3rd coat being replaced by the brick. Your lath fasteners will penetrate your water resisting barrier, just as is the case with stucco. So long as you have good ventilation between the back of your stucco or thin brick wall and the sheathing you won't get an accumulation of moisture and things should dry out fine. Just as with stucco, the weak link is poor detailing of door and window installations. Pay attention to those. That's where the damaging water gets in. And water WILL get in, so make sure it has a way out.
Great detail. My stucco guy said I could stucco over existing wood siding. But with this thin brick would you recommend removing siding and then installing the dimple mat, lathe etc? Who has the best white thin brick selection?
Hi Matt. I'm currently planning a CMU house in Florida. The CMU will be waterproofed with Polywall's blue barrier then stuccoed. Can the thin brick be attached directly to that because it won't rot and is waterproofed or do it still need the air gap you mentioned here? The thin brick will only be in areas at the front of the house. Thanks.
When the build is complete will you or will you not have an overhang? If not, would you please demonstrate the hose trick with a children's umbrella?
Is thin brick an option as a skirt around a home over an unvented block crawl space wall? If so, is a rain screen a good idea or not?
Matt completely off topic but please make a video on best practices for pre wiring low voltage cabling for audio & video
Thin brick would be good for fake fire places. All that money being wasted on stucco, I rather go with lifetime full brick. Thin brick might be ok for a model home but it won't last in the colder temperatures.
Why do you say in colder temperatures, brick will not last? I live in Alberta, Canada, go to Edmonton and Calgary on a regular basis, I have seen many buildings with brick on them, I am over the age of 50, and I know there have been a few buildings either renovated or torn down that were at least 80 years old according to news reports with brick on them. All of these buildings have seen temps in the winter time of -30, -40 or more, and the brick is still on the building? I can understand if the brick got water on it and then the temp drops below zero, there may be a chance of it possibly being damaged, but nothing major?
@@larryreddecliff2284 I'm pretty sure there aren't buildings in Calgary that have 80-year-old *thin* brick (tile) on them. They have full brick, which is what the OP recommended.
@@larryreddecliff2284 that's what I was talking about freezing rain getting on it and cracking it. Happens when contractor work closer to winter. Even in Ohio it happens. Why I suggest reg brick because it's less likely to fail. Thin brick is what I was saying won't last.
@@larryreddecliff2284 The guy is talking about thin brick disadvantage not full brick.Its people like you that go into stores to buy toilet roll in this day and age of fake news!
@@RussellNelson330 If it never fails, you might never know it's thin brick. The "brick" on the local CVS looked very convincing, with an angled sill just below the windows and no thin edges showing; it didn't seem to be affected by the snow and ice. But then a car hit it and you could see what it really was. But it looks real again now that it's fixed.
Do you need an air gap if your installing on concrete backer on a steel barn? Flat metal/house wrap/backer board with thin brick installed.
Building a brick house out of wood and plastic, how McMansion of you.
And how would you do it? Are you going to ignore what the client wants and can afford? Yep, just refuse the job because you're not building "McMansions", as if your opinion is important at all. There is no doubt in my mind that you're not a builder.
Julian Cate
Actually I think his point is that people are gradually getting away from traditional building practices and cheapen down the final product. It’s certainly not the builders fault, but probably the developer, the architect, and the customer. Whenever I see ” lick and stick”, little fireplace bump outs, vinyl siding on chimneys, and other things that just look fake, fake, fake I just have to wonder who would accept that, especially on a multi million dollar home.
@@kurtvonfricken6829 You are giving the original poster too much credit. I think he thinks that a brick wall is made of nothing but bricks. And to your point, if you have a budget - say $1 million - the trade-off is space or finery. That is, you can opt for a big house, which will require more basic materials, and thus leave less money for stone/brick facades, fireplaces, patios, etc... or you can opt for a smaller home that uses finer materials. Personally, I think the video revealed that this home was being built well and real money was being invested to make sure the home was water/air/bug tight and that it would last. Whether you agree with the choice of methods and materials is a completely separate issue that has absolutely nothing to do with ensuring that a home achieves air/water/bug tightness and durability while satisfying the space demands of the customer. Separate issue.
Julian Cate
Agreed, just seems to be that we've past the tipping point of what is considered acceptable, but if people buy it what can you say? I've seen homes worth/ sold for over $1 million with a chimney covered with vinyl siding or sometimes they completely forgo the chimney and have a little bump out to contain a gas fireplace and put a couple shingles on the little roof covering the little shack stuck on the side of the house. Structurally they are correct but I just don't understand why anyone would want this.
I'm just joking. I'm not a builder, and I live in a country where pretty much every single house is a brick house. I can poke fun at it but I can't really complain because I don't have to live with it. I just scratch my head at it and think it's bad taste, at least most of the time.
The editing is on point in this. Give your editor a high five.
From a guy who spent half his life as a stone mason..... those finished joints on the thin brick look horrible. Maybe should’ve had a bricklayer come in for that.
i also noticed that, im just a hobbyist!
Its bad, but I've seen real brick with even worse joints! Some friends bought a new house in Houston and all the brickwork is like in the video, and worse. Then I drive home to my 1950 brick house with nicely rounded mortar joints.
Any thoughts on the Dorken dimple mat vs. using the wrinkled WRB(I am at a loss for the brand or technical name)?
Im building a non inslulated pool shed that I want to do this on, could I just blueskin the exterior and fasten this with traditional metal lath? Or would I still have issues?
I can see using these in interiors like a fireplace, accent walls, or in bars or restaurants for decoration. I’d never put it outside. A few extra inches of concrete on the foundation would be well worth the cost. I can see diy people maybe doing it.
Less weight is less footprint tho, i think in the future we are going to see it more often because of that. Matter of time before the details are going to be more easier to install
Outside anywhere is going to fail big waste of time and money
If you design a *"Belt Course"* around the building at the story level, it would allow more air flow between the levels.
A composite band would give more of a cosmetic designed 🤓
Ps: if that backing product wash made from partial recycled plastic bottles would be great.
I'd like to see the flashing detail mentioned at 7:42 Any links? thx
Are you not putting overhangs on that roof?
Yes, he's mentioned in prior videos that the overhangs will come later as they're doing a special insulation.
I can't imagine what a tile setter would charge for this they all seem to be labor queens "they want more than they are worth" not to mention all the steps and materials this takes verses regular brick. Every thin brick usually cost more than regular brick. Seems like a whole lot of extra cost.
They probably made it cheap enough, but it looks flimsy to me. Tiles on a masonry structure could work (The Woolworth building in NYC is a one hudred year old building covered in tiles) but if the ground shifts even a little the tiles will fall. These will fall, I fear.
What bricklayer? When you build houses prefab these thin bricks can be robot applied. Check the link below! Way faster then applying bricks by hand, the robot doesn't take breaks and keeps going 24 / 7.
instagram.com/p/B8-8y2IhkEW/?
the savings come from reduced foundation cost that would be required to carry the big load of the real brick.
A 4” brick ledge is cheap compared to the hundreds of sq. ft. of dimple board, increased price of thin brick, and all the extra labor required for the steps involved in installation.
Grout job looks messy.
Thats how they want it around here. I know it's strange, but the last 5 or 6 brick houses I have seen they opted to go with a messy grout job.
gets acid washed and all the loose material washes off
Mason's call it jointing not grouting, we use mortar not grout. I think they tried to finish these joints the same way you would tile grout which explains the mess. As a bricklayer....I have no words. This is unacceptable and no an acid wash isnt fixing this, it could clean the face but the brush marks all through the joints nah.
@@DRS659 if that was my project -the final product @ 6:14 - it would be torn down and placed quietly in the dumpster. Horrendous looking work.
@@johnmartin8378 fuck sorry if I was being harsh dude, thought this was permanent and intended as a finished product
If I had 2" of insulation over my zip, what fastener would I use to hang the Delta Dry Stucco and Stone or Delta Dry and Lath? Trufast Grip-Deck TubeSeal might be good, unless the Rodenhouse washer creates too much bulge for the scratch coat.
WOW...you ended the video without the customary "ON THE BUILD SHOW". You're losing it.....lol. Always appreciate the info. If I lived in Austin, you're the only builder I would use to build my house!
If you could afford him .... he he
As a mason I get that it's a product of the time we live in. However I don't understand the application where full brick could be used at a better price point.
There's definitely smart places to use them for the lighter weight and ceiling ability that's about it though.
are you saying real brick is actually cheaper??
@@JimDalrympleII absolutely Jim. In almost every application full brick is cheaper. In most applications thin brick is significantly more.
I'll tell you why.
1- thin brick cannot be fired like standard brick without breakage. This means each one starts as a full brick then goes to the saw station to be cut.
Recently there is a German company who developed a machine that can manufacture them but that's a $3,000,000 machine that the brick yards haven't played off yet so they are passing on the cost.
2- The exterior application requires a type of lathe and scratch coat with a weep system which is an additional cost. That's not even mentioning dimple mat costs.
3- The application is not just stick and done. It's stick then grout and point each individual joint.
The only place it is saving cost is a bit of mortar and physical labor. But the physical laborers aren't the ones making the high dollars an hour. It's the Mason's who you just added labor to.
Joel Breinholt
Do they get 1 or 2 thin bricks from each real brick? Keep it up you are a dying breed. No one seems to want real masonry which is sad.
@@kurtvonfricken6829 its pretty odd to think about but manufacturers don't apply enough efforts into finishing the backs to get a 2nd brick. They almost always have conveyer marks as well as rough edges from being cut to size. It's even rare to have 2 finished ends now days.
Brick yards love the grog (crushed brick) that gives extra strength to new brick. So it's no skin off their backs to throw a bad batch or cuts back into the production cycle. In fact they rely on it similar to aggregate in concrete.
Back in the day we could demo a building and bring the debris to the grog pile for free. Not anymore though. It goes to concrete recycle for $10 a ton.
Thanks for the encouragement. It's always good to hear from people that appreciate the trades.
@@ILikeFreedomYo wow that's incredible. I always assumed think brick was cheaper because its so ubiquitous these days. Here's another question for you: Is there a viable way to build with brick in places that are seismically active? I live in an area with earthquakes. All the old buildings are brick, but almost no one builds that way any more due to earthquake codes. I'd love to build a true brick house someday, but lots of local guys tell me that's just not possible in this area.
If you put this on an icf house do you need the air gap behind the thin brick?
compare how many passes of labor: A)- real masonry, two procedures: 1) lay bricks and mortar; 2) clean-up. B)- thin-set brick, multiple procedures: 1) sheathing; 2) seal the sheathing; 3) apply dimple-mat and drip strips; 4) apply gray-coat; 5) apply scratch-coat; 6) thin-set bricks; 7) mortar the bricks; 8; clean-up. Seems like real brick would be more economical UNLESS it is used where brick looks odd (but when it is not supported from what appears to be a foundation, thin-set brick and stone looks WRONG - just an opinion).
Exactly, its for accents in places where real brick could not possibly be installed.
@@bigpjohnson yep, but as a designer, there is something to be said about truth in finishes. Having "lick-and-stick" veneer over a window or door looks silly without a lintel (real or faux).
@@timskufca8039 I wish we could go back to houses with 1-2 types of facades. I hate the new trend of 3-5 different facades and textures and fake balconies, its cheap and confuses the crap out of your eyes! But these are the times we live in.
How’s the cost compare to traditional brick?? Thanks for the great video! 💪🏻
More expensive.
Way more expensive and total flim flam and their finished product looks like absolute shit
Talking about which subs perform what task/spec on a job like a home build, do you have any guidelines you can share for a beginner like myself to ensure I've delegated all the tasks out to my subs and I don't end up in a situation on a project where a detail is missed because none of my subs picked it up in their costs?
Higher a competent GC to advise you, while you learn.
Or practice on someone else's house 😂😊😁🤔
Why reinvent the wheel?? Proper brick work will last for a long time.
alex jahui exactly. And it’s the best rain screen ever.
@@OHSCrifle dimple plastic mat screwed to the studs?? How long would it last? Seriously..With the expansion and contraction because of the weather those thin bricks will fall off on your head at anytime.
...Because the channel isn't sponsored by regular brick manufacturers.
James Bradwell
Actually I think full thickness and thin brick is made by the same companies.
@@kurtvonfricken6829 I was more referring to the plastic dimple matting that you're expected to screw to a stud wall then entrust to holding up the entire weight of the building's outer brick skin.
...This video was nothing more than a blatant paid advertisement. This channel has been getting pretty bad for this crap recently.
I get that folks have got to eat, but the channel was seemingly far more impartial in its recommendations when I first subscribed (which is the very reason I subbed in the first place).
Brick slips (thin brick) might be okay for low level buildings, but you must be careful of wind suction on high level buildings, needs a structural engineer to work out wind loads and suction issues....
I'm guessing the vast majority of people watching this channel are doing low-rise projects, mostly residential. All Matt's projects are low-rise. High wind loads are a very real issue for high-rise buildings but then you are dealing with a whole different set of construction practices already. Wood framing is effectively out. Of course, for low rise, we still have to deal with hurricane force winds but that's a somewhat different problem of detailing.
Wind loads can an issue for stacked brick veneer if there are not enough anchors or if they rust out. Spalling is a problem if there are not enough expansion joints. Thin brick (hopefully with flexible grout) is often used on high-rise buildings just to avoid the danger of full-sized bricks chipping, spalling, or (rarely) actually falling out.
umassamherstlibraries.blogspot.com/2014/03/why-is-there-fence-around-library.html
In both examples of your standard brick and thin brick, I saw no reinforcement like brick ties, ladder ties, etc. That thin brick, eventually is going to peel off the house like a banana peel. The dimple board is adhered and screwed into the sheathing/studs but the brick are merely tiled to the dimple board. I would add brick ties every ft on center to keep the thin brick not only adhered with mortar but mechanically adhered as well. You know how a house expands and contracts. The sheathing and the brick are going to expand and contract at different ratios and it's not a matter of if, but when those thin brick start to pop.
I agree. And it is going to look like crap in a few years.
The dimples just create the air gap for drainage and drying. The synthetic Lath hold it on the house. Same as a stucco job. It’s a proven system
@@buildshow I do like the dimple board and I don't have near the home building experience as you, but in 15 years in the masonry restoration field I have seen a lot of thin brick installations needing full tear downs after as little as 5 years. This system with the synthetic lathe could completely solve the issues I mentioned and I watch and learn new building technology from your videos. Just adding my viewpoint as a professional in the masonry field. Not intending to bash or instigate, but discuss.
Does one still need all this water management if applying to the block foundation? If one doesn’t want exposed cinder blocks, can simply cover with brick veneer and no water management?
Can you clarify something for me Matt, please? Wether the brick is on the wall, roof or foundation is still load on the foundation, correct? Technically, the footings are carrying all the weight? And if not, please explain
Larry Reddecliff
I'm not Matt but anything stuck to the walls has to be supported by the foundation, there is nothing else that could be holding it up.
Well technically correct,
But real brick is installed with it's own footing just in front of the exterior walls. Just *brick ties* nailed to the studs every sqr foot
Mansard Manor
But matt said it wasn't supported by the foundation. I'm not sure what he means. The foundation is certainly holding up anything hanging off the walls. Perhaps he is referring to the fact that you don't need a brick ledge on your foundation?
The foundation supports it all either way. With regular brick, the load is separated from the structural load and brick ties just hold the brick from falling off. With thin brick, the load is ON the framing itself.
Researching different materials, If your doing a build you want to be connected like straw or hempcrete, I understand the rules all change. You want a continuous material to wick the water outside, soak heat into your build mass and not have a vapour barrier in the middle of the material. It seems interesting with modern construction how we invent all these technologies that are already obsolete in ancient construction.
Matt i live in san antonio im about to build my house and my architect put on my plans yellow pine but alot of people are telling me to install white wood so i dont now which one to buy Can you give me your opinion on the different 2x4
Pine and fir are used for structural studs. White wood is usually a LOT softer and not really meant to support structural loads. Be sure your studs are stamped with STUD on the certification marks! Otherwise you will most likely fail inspection and have to reframe.
People like white wood since its usually straighter. Its fine for a shed but not supporting walls.
just wondering what if the wall is made of concrete? does it stil need this mesh or this thin brick can ce install direct to the concrete wall?
Lets say you wanted to put rigid foam insulation around the exterior of your basement walls ( which will be underground) but the top 2-3 feet or so will be above ground. Obviously i'd want to cover the insulation with maybe stucco or this thin brick.. how would someone go about achieving an air gap if necessary?
What do you do with the rusted exposed rebar? At 35 secs in, you'll see it under the brick wall display.
Good eye. Saw it too. That'd be a whole show for that alone !!!
I have been a tile setter for 42 years and have done a fair amount of exterior brick veneer. Your tile setter cannot grout worth a crap. I would fire him. It's your house!
That stuff is more suited for interior use more areas not exposed to rain or sun
Why would it be any different than a 3-coat cement stucco? It's basically the first 2 coats of a stucco system with the brick replace the finish coat.
I've seen it hold up for decades in the rain and snow we have here in New England. There is even a building near me that was built in the 1980s with bathroom tile covering the exterior. It has to be detailed right, but full-depth brick veneer will fall apart if it's not detailed right too, even if it's installed over concrete blocks.
@@pcno2832 unless they have up graded then that stuff won't last.Why not just pay the price for the good materials and be done with it?I'm a one and done kind of person and that's just me.I refuse to be some companys guinea pig ,so they can use a person to get feedback that they don't really have a lot of money invested in,and make their fortune off me
Hi Matt, there is easer way to get thin brick fasade : in to out - studs+membrane+wood wool cement board+cement-polymeric glue+thin brick ! and vent distance don't needed. am i wrong?
Matt, the application with thin brick will never last 50 years in the north in south Florida yes
Why?
50 years? I’d be amazed if that flim flam lasted 50 months before they start popping off no matter where it’s done but in cold areas like NY I’ve seen that thin brick completely fail in just a few years. I would never do it outside anywhere
This video should be a collaboration with Half As Interesting
Interesting, but give me bricks and mortar any time .....
Matt, hello, cool decision to work with the whims of designers))
Але така технологія викликає дуже багато питань до її економічної складової. В порівнянні із звичайною (класичною) цеглою треба враховувати багато аспектів:
1). По-перше - це технологічність, тобто дуже малий захист від "дурака", тому що має мінімум 3 етапи в технологічному процесі (встановлення мембрани, штукатурка, оклейка плитки).
2). По-друге - це ціна, яка складається від 4 видів робіт (улаштування мембрани, штукатурка мембрани, оклейка плитки, затирання швів) та 5 видів матеріалів (мембрана + "цвяхи", суміш для штукатурки, клей, "плитка-цегла", суміш для затирання швів).
3). По-третє - це час, за який виконується ця робота, тому що щось мені підказує, що цей процес набагато довший за улаштування "класичної цегли".
До того ж, якщо порівнювати відверто, то постає велике питання - "Як кріпити мембрану? Невже на прості цвяхи? Чи вони повинні бути особливими, із спеціальною шляпкою? Або може треба використовувати якісь спеціальні саморізи?" Тому що те що я побачив, то вибачайте, але це повний "fucking shame". Такий спосіб фіксації не є обнадійливим, тому що бувають зони негативного тиску (коли дує вітер), тому що впливає вологість навколишнього середовища та температура... Але це вже лірика, впевнений, що виробник має чітку інструкцію та рекомендації по влаштуванню цієї мембрани.
Та якщо ще більш глибше зануритись, то не завжди обов'язково під класичну цеглу робити такий широкий фундамент. Достатньо, починаючи з висоти встановлення цегли, зробити монолітну консоль - тим самим зменшимо витрати на арматуру та бетон для фундамента в цій зоні (небагато, але краще ніж нічого).
Проте, така технологія допомагає вирішити багато дизайнерських рішень в будь-якій частині будинку, чи то консоль, чи то еркер, будь-який поверх, будь-що.
Matt, thank you for
coverage of such interesting topics!!!
Matt, What is the cost difference per sq/ft of Thin brick Vs. Regular brick?
I’m certainly not Matt but I think the price is similar.
Where I'm from thin brick is more expensive then doing real brick
Patrick Friesen
Isn’t it strange when something “fake” or made to trick you into thinking it is something else cost more than the thing you are trying to replicate? Imagine a fake Rolex watch that costs more than a Rolex.
Real brick is usually cheaper if its source locally, but if your not near any brick making operations, the fake stuff may be less. Then there is tera-cotta thin brick which is "a little too perfect" but costs almost nothing.
Can this be left as a rendered finish without the thin brick?
Matt, how about some "build show" SWAG from the network. Great way to increase profits and get the show out there.
Would concrete or cinder block wall need that air barrier behind thin brick? Definitely waterproofing material or “paint”.
OOOooooonn the BUIllld Show
Sorry, but "bricked" or "stone" popouts that don't tie-in to the foundation just scream FAKE!
Yes, whenever I see brick in places it could not be held up physically, it screams “FAKE”. I can’t believe more people don’t notice it and call it out. Too many people don’t care about details, it will only get worse.
I almost forgot, one of my biggest pet peeves is brick/ masonary dormers. In a wood-frame house, what could possibly be holding up the masonary dormer? It almost has to be FAKE brick? Dormers should not be clad in masonry unless it goes down to the foundation.
asdf
It’s made from brick, but I see your point.
@@kurtvonfricken6829 I agree. Treat this material just as you would a thick brick. That's always been my approach.
@asdf In theory you are right. But when people use the L-shaped corner pieces it APPEARS to be a thick material. My approach is to pick one route or the other but to be consistent. Either use it in a way that mimics thick brick in every detail of appearance ... or ... detail corners, edges, openings, ... so that it is clearly, visually, perceived as a thin material. When I do the latter I prefer to use a tile that actually looks "tile-like", for example porcelain or a square cut polished stone.
Can thin brick assembly apply to split brick? ( 1 3/4 wythe)
Matt, how about some shows detailing real state-of-the-art masonry as it's practiced in Mexico and South America? We could learn a lot from cultures that build in a way that's completely different from our own. At least in the American southwest, we're adopting European stick building methods that aren't as appropriate to our climate as South American masonry.
dlwatib So true, so many incredible techniques from around the world and we continue to build tinder boxes that rot out or burn down.
I completely agree with this. I live in Phoenix. I believe Matt did a video about his Christian charity work in perhaps the Dominican Republic or some Central American country and he did show some of the construction methods there. But that would be really cool. I can imagine if we had used adobe through Phoenix, it would be like a giant Santa Fe.
It comes down to climates and HVAC. That would work in dry areas, but probably wouldnt fare as well in humid, rainy Texas. We also use air conditioning a lot, which works better in a decently weatherproofed wood frame versus masonry walls that love to suck up water. Masonry homes in humid areas tend to have moisture and mold issues. Its why most houses were built with wood that could dry out.
A major problem here in Texas is imported labor installed stucco just like back home. Its not entirely their fault that they're not trained to do it correctly for our humid and rainy climate. 2-10 years down the road and the stucco has to be stripped to repair water damage on a whole lot of houses.
6:17 Can't imagine anyone being happy with this
Nope. But then I've seen a lot of real brickwork that is as bad or worse.
The downside of thin brick is that the mortar is so thin that you cant tool it as much. A wheeled raker would probably pull all of it out.
since he forgot. "ooon the build show"!!
So, is that better than the McNear thin brick wall system that uses a metal back plate to glue the bricks on?
Metal can rust and expand/contract. I think the speedymason panels are a better choice. Would love to hear others thoughts.
@@bigbob3772 Thanks. I never heard of that system. www.speedymason.com/
what are the cost differences? or is it more break even?
It can be cheaper or more expensive, it just depends. some thin bricks are actually cast in a mold and made to their exact size. And some cast thin "bricks" are actually concrete, in that case probably cheaper. Other thin bricks start as full size bricks that have been cut down into think bricks, in which case probably more expensive, because there is an added expense in cutting the bricks.
I'm a residential designer. Pet peeve ... I'm a big fan of thin brick and stone veneer. However I always detail it consistent in appearance with full size brick. So don't do things with it, such as using it on dormers, that you wouldn't do with thick brick. Use the L-shaped corner pieces. Give thought to window and door openings and headers. Strive for a result that looks like thick brick in all its details... On the other hand, thin tiles, nicely squared, are understood to be a thin material. On a modern house thin tiles can make a beautiful exterior finish, very sleek. They can be detailed to appear thin, as they are.
Excellent points. Appreciate the comments
to me nothing beats a brick facade with a decent 3 or 4" cavity. All the weight is on the foundation and not reliant on the screws holding the dimple mat on
I don’t disagree. However a 1” gap is plenty
@@buildshownot according to the rest of the world that actually has standards
I'm not a builder. I'm looking at moving to a new home and many have the thin brick for siding. Reading comments here, it sounds like the thin brick approach is not as good as traditional full bricks. Is this correct? If I'm looking at living in the house for 25 years, should the thin brick hold up OK? Thanks
Gettin' nerdy! Lol
How do you sealwhere the fasteneris punching through your dorken mat?
Not necessary with the air gap. Nothing to force water inside
@@buildshow could wind pressure not drive the moister in?
What we used to call 'stick-a-brick' in the UK!
Lick and stick. Cheap, stick on architectural features.
I live somewhere where it gets windy. I'd take solid brick any day of the week.
Anyone remember "full brick" construction. What we call solid right now is half the thickness of the old 1910 "full brick" houses.
Wow you selling that .
That what weep holes are for.
Lets see that house in five years
im going to use composite when i build my house
Composite what?
what about "THE BUILD SHOW"in the end ???!!!
So if thin brick is that great, why doesn't this guy have it on his own home?
It's MORE expensive than traditional brick.
He’s actually building his house, from the ground up. I wouldn’t be surprised to see it on the build
Did he say it was better? nope.
big bob
Yes, I think it is close. Every one of those thin set bricks was once a real brick. They take bricks and cut off the outside. I think you can get two thin-set brick pieces from an actual brick.
@@kurtvonfricken6829 I am doing thin brick, and the quote for full brick was cheaper.
heads up ...I always paint my stucco after finish to keep the water out ...letting stucco fill up with water every time its rains is un acceptable to me
Unless you're using a synthetic elastomeric paint, it doesn't keep water out. It will help shed water but paints are designed to be permeable. If they weren't, paint would peel off whenever water got behind it.
I have installed the brackets on complete commercial building additions meeting up to decades old real brick over 35 years ago. It looked great but we had people like myself with 10 plus years of experience in tile and marble. We also used a mortar bag and tooled the mortar joints to make it authentic looking.
Not sure how much it saved, but like mentioned in the video you don’t need to allow for this to go to the foundation. Really great for the bump outs of stucco and other details.
As far as the mess of mortar on the face you can seal the brick or have the brackets presealed with a wax coating on the front face.This would allow you to install the thin brick float the mortar on was the face off and tool the joints. Then use a steam pressure washer to remove the wax.Sounds like a lot of work
But the results would be as similar to brick as possible. The same for mortared stone veneer.
Great video showing the Dorken dimple mat and synthetic lath, I plan to use that on home and commercial products and the finishes are wide open from there. Really glad you posted this video.
In Cleveland two young kids died when a brick column fell on them. I know that brick is not really designed to hold sideways loads like a hammock causes, but then again they need to be strong enough to not fall over if they get bumped by a lawnmower or leaned on. How should that column have been built to prevent this tragedy?
Wouldn't nailing this into Zip sheathing compromise the Zip sheathing?
Nailing any siding on will. However building science studies have shown that when you have a rain screen the effect is small.
Can that be called a brick??
Most building supply reference this product as a *Brick Veneer*
Mansard Manor
But most brickwork done on residential construction over the last 60 or so years is also called brick veneer to distinguish it from full thickness brick walls. I think thin brick veneer or adhesive brick is a better term.
You can tell by weep holes on starter course of real brick vs brick veneer.
DOUBLE RAINBOW AT 10:35 !!!
@ 2:24 says "the house is bearing the weight instead of the foundation"........I'm no Engineer... But isn't the foundation holding up the house? So what's actually changed except the weight of the brick in this case (Air gap aside)
I’m trying to figure that one out too!
He means it's not sitting on the foundation. Full brick houses have their framing inset from the edge of the foundation so the brick can sit on it. Houses with regular siding have framing right on the edge.
So basically, its just a few screws holding up that whole Delta dry and lath..
Correct me if I'm wrong...
Dave Smith truth. (same as any stucco over framing. Which I personally would avoid at any cost). Stucco belongs on masonry.. only.
Scott Haugh So what is wire lath made for?
A thin brick assembly weighs only a little more than a 3 coat stucco assembly. With standard fastening schedules it's well within acceptable loads.
@@OHSCrifle It should never be installed in any humid/rainy climates for sure. Dry areas only! I've seen more than a few stucco homes get stripped down to repair water damage here in Houston.
Sean M just because you can doesn’t mean you should. And that’s why I said “I personally”... just not a fan of stucco on wood framing. I think it’s asking for water penetration problems.
Let’s talk about how to get the durability of real brick. Use real brick.
The end.
Attaching all the extra weight just for looks is a bad idea, just don’t do it.
And yes it is noticeable, thin walls are a dead giveaway.
At least he's doing it right with the Dorkin system to let it drain. I see tons of houses where they just screw Hardie over the Tyvek and set the thin brick or stone. That will bite the owner in the ass down the road!
Why regular brick got holes ?