Did Led Zeppelin Steal The "Stairway To Heaven" Riff?
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2016
- Stephen remains impartial as he investigates claims that guitarist Jimmy Page stole rock's most iconic guitar riff from another song.
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Stephen Colbert took over as host of The Late Show on Tuesday, Sept. 8, 2015. Colbert is best known for his work as a television host, writer, actor, and producer, and best known for his charity work teaching English as a second language on Tunisian date farms. Prior to joining the CBS family -- and being officially adopted by network president Les Moonves -- Colbert helmed “The Colbert Report,” which aired nearly 1,500 episodes and required Stephen to wear nearly 1,500 different neckties. The program received two Peabody Awards, two Grammy Awards, and several unwelcome shoulder massages. It won two Emmys for Outstanding Variety Series in 2013 and 2014, both of which appear to have been lost in the move. Colbert is pronounced koʊlˈbɛər, according to Wikipedia. His understudy is William Cavanaugh, who will be hosting The Late Show approximately one third of the time. Good luck, Bill!" - Розваги
Goodness... whoever wrote the first vi II V I has some major moneys coming
You only need 4 chords for 85% of rock and punk...
Pop is the same 4 or 5 chord progressions...
Okay , if that's the case why doesn't Taurus remind us of ALL THOSE OTHER vi II I chord progressions? hmm? Suggest a few - any? There's only one song Taurus immediately reminds us of melodically - "Stairway", albeit a far less sophisticated version. Add the fact that Jimmy Page toured with Spirit when he was in The Yardbirds and that's game, set and match buddy. QED.
yeah, i mean the foo fighters used the exact same descending pattern as is used in stairway to heaven and taurus. It's a musical technique, not a signature riff
Taurus is just a basic guitar pattern. If you could sue over that everyone would be fucked royally by anyone who has the rights to a learn to play guitar cd. The opening riff of Stairway isn't sophisticated at all. A basic pattern with few add ins is not enough to sue over, even if it actually did sound the same to a trained ear.
beethoven
lol QED you say...
[minor 6th, major 2nd, major 5th, major 1] - lovingly called "six two five one" accompanied by a Key by most Jazz musicians, is a very common chord progression in many forms of Jazz, a ridiculous amount of Jazz Standards feature them. Most Jazz standards are filled with a small family of chords like that. That's what I'm saying. I'm not accusing Spirit of plagiarising (6 2 5 1)s, I'm _kinda_ saying everyone and their dog have played that pattern at some point in their lives.
You seem awfully invested, I don't care that much either way. You can 'win' if you want to.
*EG: _"hey bobby, gimme a 6 2 5 1 in B, We have a new Pianist"_
Descending bass lines are one of the most common tricks in music. And Page pairs it with an ascending line in contrary motion that is absent from Spirit's piece. And the two riffs end in different ways.
Yeah, imagine if Vivaldi sued every composer that came after him for using a circle of fifths progression. (Not that Vivaldi was the first to use it, but whatever :P )
+Terncote no there not listen again
To my ears it's actually cadence/phrasing that makes them different. Both slow and two beats per chord (pretty typical for a ballad honestly) but Spirit just strums through the chords in a pretty pedestrian way (no offense intended) whereas Page arpeggiates the chords and, because of that, there is a melodic component to the way Page plays it - almost a classical music kind of aesthetic - that is completely absent from Taurus. Play the two on piano (and play Stairway with the musicality and phrasing of a pianist playing Debussy or Satie) and the difference is clear.
Now, all that aside, it is very similar in actual harmonic structure... but that isn't enough to actually call it plagiarism in a court of law for me, given how many other things have that same harmonic structure. It's like that Blurred LInes/Marvin Gaye suit - the two songs are midtempo R&B songs in G, but have some differences in execution, which apparently doesn't matter these days...
+Terncote +1
I don't think led zeppelin is screwed... Sure, they both start out slow and accoustic, and they have a similar vibe, but the note progression is significantly different.
not "significantly different", just flashier and more sophisticated. Would Jimmy Page have written the intro to Stairway in the way he did if he hadn't heard Taurus? Seriously doubt it. Not sure if that's technically plagiarism but spare us the "similar vibe, similar but different" nonsense, leave that to Page/Plant's legal team.
Rex Mundi Flashier ad more sophisticated could already be considered transformative.
It is very likely that Jimmy Pagge was influened by Taurus, but you can't sue someone because they got inspired by you.
wiet111
Doubt you'd feel that way if someone stole the wheels on your fkin car and put em on a flashier looking rolls royce. :)
Rex Mundi Theft and copying are radically different. Stairway to heaven did not suddenly make Taurus worthless.
If I designed a car, and someone copied that design but altered it significantly, that is fine.
the biggest problem is they toured with the band Spirit the year before they released Stairway to Heaven. Spirit played the song every night.
I don't really think they should get sued for it, I mean, you don't see pop stars suing each other for all using the same 4 chords
Nai Birbduck right. In modern music now there’s so many music that sounds the same but they don’t care.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Am F C G *insert catchy relationship lyrics*
Haha, oh you sweet summer child 😂
That part of the song is not even under dispute. The descending bass line is in literally hundreds of songs. "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" comes to mind.
Was that George Harrison or Paul who wrote that? My Guitar Gently Weeps? Can't remember but whichever one wrote it there was a case about it... I think it was Harrison and I believe he lost. Please though, correct me if I'm wrong.
Nvm it was Georgey boy. He lost...
david wildgust He did? Well that's excellent seeing as the song he was accused of "unintentionally infringing" upon was "He's So Fine". Yea like a guy like him a well established musician from one of the most inspirational band in history would have written anything close to that 2 note garbage. This whole Zeppelin thing does have me worked up though I love LZ but.. yea I'd have to be an idiot to continue ignoring the evidence of Page and Plant consistently taking others riffs and lyrics. This sucks man.
david wildgust I don't think they stole everything but.. man oh man. There is a pattern here and not just with Page but Plant too. I could see an innocent t mistake happening here and there maybe once or twice you know? But it's like 12 songs atleast. Lyrics and riff, I would say "Hey, that descending bass line with the ascending chromatic guitar line is just a neat trick musicians have been using for centuries." But come on... Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me more than that and you're just an asshole and I'm ignorant". I love Led Zeppelin so much... But i'm to smart not to see the pattern.
Okay I knew about the Moonwalk but it's not like he or anyone else sued over a dance move. Michael Jackson didn't try to copyright it(I don't think). What I'm saying is there have been several instances where Page and Plant have been caught using others material and not crediting them, being taken to court fighting it and losing and being forced to credit the original creator. That in my eyes just ain't right. I would agree with you if it hadn't happened already several times. They took Muddy Waters stuff and yea they made it better but the should have credited the man. Same with Babe I'm Gonna Leave You, Dy'er Ma'ker (This one got me through tough times), and Black Dog. Three songs that I love so so SO much... All three were not Led Zeppelins original creation. Page and Plant chose not to credit the original artist but instead credit themselves. That is wrong. Very, very wrong it hurts music in general and I'm honestly afraid that they did the same with Stairway. ONE case is you know acceptable shit happens but not 12. It's wrong. I'm a diehard fan. But they were wrong. and in a sense they are thieves and it hurts to say that. It does, but I'd be a fool not to accept it.
That's not even close. C'mon, what's next? Get plagiarism charges for playing the G chord?
G is mine. Back off :P
are you deaf?
+Jerry Tripp are you?
not even close? hmm... same exact chord progression same key.
ikr
I mean, even if they HAD ripped Spirit off, they ended up writing the most iconic rock song of all time. I think that kinda makes up for it.
Plus, those descending chords are so very common in music, so if this is the basis for a lawsuit everyone is screwed.
+Muzikgod have you ever heard chim chim cheree from the classic Mary Poppins?
So metaphorically I robbed a bank & then used the money in stockmarket investment just to earn even more & suddenly became a billionaire. That'd make it up for me just cause I was a clever thief ???.
+Erik Rettig I think with art is so different. Van Gogh became famous redoing every other painter's works with his own style and is universally praised
Painting & making Music are different in so many ways. Yes, they're both revovling around the artistic concept but they're not the same. Van Gogh was just re-doing other works he liked with the mention of such works. But Led Zeppelin took all the credits for themselves for years & never actually mentioned anything about re-doing works. Instead they made it "Their Song".
Zep will always suck.
are they similar? yes, however I don't think they are the same.
It seems the stairway to heaven is faster and I think one added note
the progression is completely different, the only similarities are the tempo, the fact that it is acoustic and the starting point of the riff. If you listen to the rest of the songs they are entirely different as well. This is a bullshit copyright claim.
They stole all their lyrics so how do you not think they stole this?
It's not just these two songs they stole, it's the whole of the 1st album except one song
It's a very common chors progression. From a musicians standpoint it is not the same.similisr yes but if you where to say it was stolen then you clearly do not have any understanding of music.
Its a step down progression from A. if you put that in any song it's suddenly plagiarism? bullshit.
A minor progression with a falling chromatic bass.
... and identical phrasing.
They stole lyrics to a few of their songs as well. Ugh..
No it isn't.
They've been accused of this for such a long time, and the first bars of the intro are such a small part of the song (the rest being non-comparable), and this level of similarity is acceptable by precedent in so many other instances...
I don't think you should be able to sue a guitar player for playing something similar to music that he/her has heard in the past and it's unknowingly inspiring them for a second. Unless you're drawing from your past experiences with music, the only way to come up with entirely new music would be to completely screw around with no rhyme or reason all the time
I agree that the whole concept of litigation like this is absurd. Did they put it on an album? Did it sell - should Zepplin countersue? Improving sounds, riffs, melodies, makes marked improvement from one generation to another. For one artist to spite another for solely monetary gain and not for the love of the music - well its lame. Shame on Taurus or whoever they are for deciding out of the blue decades later - you know that sounds a little like how this song started - lets SUE em - just a classless act of greed and an attack upon generations of fans whom love that song. No matter what happens Zepplin - fan for life.
In fairness .... It's not Spirit who brought the suit. It's lawyers for the estate of its founder. I think this is the intellectual property equivalent of ambulance chasing. It's petty, but it's not the artists who are at fault.
Led Zeppelin ripped Spirit off. Everyone knows that. Even normal people who aren't actually musicians can say that.
I feel like there is enough variation in the melody to say there shouldnt be legal action over it.
If the were musicians they wouldn't say it.
Only musician who didn't get his material from others was the first one. The rest build upon what they've heard and learned by other musicians.
Led Zeppelin has a song that no other artist has ever been able to top. The Spirits are just trying to cash in. They should die.
I Provide Useless Statistics for Your Pleasure I don't honestly know if you're a troll or trying to be painfully funny. Stairway To Heaven isn't even that iconic, you idiot. It's a good, ripped-off song that Spirits created before Led Zeppelin were even there & then they were just kids trying to make it big by obviously stealing other musicians' ideas. Period.
+Erik Rettig so using a riff that spirit didnt even make is plagiarism other than that 5 second riff there is almost nothing same about the two songs
There is no fucking way that this can be considered stealing. All the other song is, is just going up the neck of the guitar, while playing the same two notes. The only similar notes are the first three notes. I hope that whoever is handling this case is at least a little educated on music.
You have to listen to the unedited version of the song, it's on UA-cam. And if you did know, They also stole Dazed and Confused by Jake Holmes originally created in 1967, they also stole whole lot of love from muddy waters originally from 1963. And about 50 other songs, more then half there work isn't original and obviously stolen. Members of led even opened for these bands before they were famous.
Check out the guitar tablature. Every four notes in the intro is a new chord and it is only played through twice. It's not just playing 2 strings while moving up the neck, lol. You start a 5-string barre chord at the 5th fret, then move down the neck. Not too terribly hard, but it took plenty of practice to get it figured out. And that is just the intro. I love Zep, but they are well known for "borrowing" heavily from other composers and bands.
*****
You need to listen to the actual song, it's on UA-cam. Also they opened for this band way back in the day, so they obviously knew about it. This isn't the first song they have stolen note from note or lyric by lyric. There's actual a good video on this, it's called "4 Famous musicians who stole there biggest hits". It has all the info and proof.
+Becky R Those notes do not make the A-minor chord, or anything close. Just sayin. Check out the tablature.
whoever wrote the first G, C, D song can pretty much sue EVERYONE I guess.
No, the two music passages are clearly a lot closer than just chords.
joeschultz2 It's a consecutive plucking of the strings. Only guitarists who're into music theory will understand this.
w9j15g
The standard that matters is whether the jury thinks the passage sounds the same. And it is very likely they will.
+joeschultz2 A jury of musicians would see things differently. Lay people have no place judgjng this case.
reviewz
Lay people are the ones who are going to decide. If a doctor commits malpractice, he doesn't have the right to ask for a jury of doctors. And Steven Colbert was right-it looks like Led Zep is screwed, by the sound of those two passages.
The day a chord progression can be copyrighted...
It's not even the same chord progression
btw thanks for your comment .....we don't need the courts filled with a million nonsense chord progression lawsuits ....MTW LA CA USA
ps..... especially 40 years later!
Terrible comment.
Bruh melodies, harmonies and lyrics. Anyways “rockers” stole the genre from Black folks. Now go live your best life on the back of Black peoples talent, and rock on 😆✌🏽
@@thedayones4918 bringing race into an irrelevant issue sounds like you're trying to start a fight. Or you're a troll.
Wow! A Stephen Colbert video that went trending and is not about Donald Trump?! Everybody give him a round of applause!
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smh lol
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Well that is pretty interesting. But what ever lol.
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It's just a standard descending minor chord progression played on the same instrument. How is that plagiarism? If Zeppelin plagiarized Taurus, then Taurus plagiarized the Beatles While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Go listen to George Harrison's acoustic version.
very good point.
True, the main reason it's an issue though is that Spirit used to open up for Zepplin, then not long after Taurus came out, "Stairway to Heaven" came out, and when asked where he got inspiration he would dodge the question by saying "I felt something else entered me and wrote the song, I cant really say I wrote it." Bottom line: He didn't do anything illegal, but he seemed a bit shady as if he thought he did something wrong to Spirit...and they didn't care.
You are right.
Pachelbel is in for some SERIOUS cash. His Canon in D chord progression has been ripped off since the 1690s. FFS how many ways can you arrange 12 notes and make it sound good? There's bound to be some repeats through time. It's mathematically inevitable.
Yep. 80% of all pop/rock music is based on the same three chords.
*four
Colin McGrail The Canon in D uses the SECOND most shopworn progression in popular music (yes, it has four chords). The FIRST most overused progression has only three chords: I--IV--V.
That would be hilarious... too bad Canon in D fell into the public domain 200 years ago. But yes, everyone seems to have ripped off Pachelbel... even Blues Traveler!!!!
***** Yes. There are literally thousands examples of great songs.
hate when people treat art like a patented invention. ART IS WHERE IT IS TODAY ON THE BASIS OF INSPIRATION AND BUILDING ON IDEAS. nothing is completely original. things are improved or twisted or mixed with other good ideas; that's how art has evolved. should Led Zeppelin have just avoided making Stairway to Heaven altogether, to avoid having a similar sounding guitar riff? Stairway to Heaven stands the tests of time as one of the greatest rock compositions of all time. And WAY more elements contributed to that, other than the simple riff.
Yeah u are right. This makes me listen to Stairway to heaven again . :)
Well said.
Nothin seemed stolen to me. It sounded completely different.
It's just the chord progression and acoustic guitar that are similar. Different tunes
If Zepplin loses this case I'm going to sue anyone who uses the E string because I just wrote a song that used the E string, which is totally my original idea
I'm suing anyone who uses a G chord.
this is ridiculous, that's just the same chords, it's a pretty popular order of chords.
A, Ab, G, F#, F, B, A is *not* a common order of chords.
yes, it is, i have a band and we have a song like this and I hadn't even heard stairway to heaven when we wrote that. It's basically just a halftone down 5 times. And remember you can do that from every starting tone (exuse my lack of english musical vocab)
Jim Knopf Still doesn't make it common. Common progressions use intervals based on the key that they're in... and chromatic lines are outside all of the common musical keys/modes.
On top of that, it's not completely chromatic, as the interval between the F and the B is a flat fifth, which by itself is also uncommon... combine the two and you have something very, very uncommon.
Descending bass lines are ridiculously common dude.
It is a common progression, it's just not common in Rock music. Many Waltzes use the same exact progression and tempo and can be seen a lot in French Gypsy music and French Crooners such as Edith Piaf. However there are other large rock bands that use this as well. Pink Floyd's "Is There Anybody Out There" uses the EXACT chord progression in the SAME key. In Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell's version of "Aint No Mountain High Enough" the Bassline does the same EXACT progression in the SAME key. Similarly, "I Me Mine" by The Beatles uses the EXACT chord progression in the SAME key, but different tempo (They also use it in Michelle in the key of F). It is a very common progression.
'Taurus' sounds like someone still learning the 'Stairway' intro and not being able to play it right.
Does Taurus have that awesome solo?
no but it's not about the solo it's not even about the song it's just about those few notes in the beggining
Ola Mola I know. My question wan't related to lawsuit.
If you listen to the whole songs, there's no way a person can confuse the two. The only way to even make it seem shady is to isolate a 10 second segment. But even then, it's a common chord sequence that is picked completely differently.
There's a reason "Stairway to Heaven" is still a hit and people still have trouble remembering the band Spirit and the song "Taurus." Jimmy Page was a much better songwriter.
***** I always love a thoughtful response
+Ematched but it's not about the whole song. it's just about those beginning chord progressions.
and Led Zep were on tour with the band before they wrote the song
I'm sure it's purely coincidence they toured in 69 and STH came out in 71.
+adrenacrumb seems far too convinient. Plus, LZ have a track record of maybe stealing songs. I love them, especially Stairway (my favourite song) but I've always thought it was stolen from Spirit
Davy Graham was there before, Cry me a river from 1959, he might sue Spirit!
Page probably was playing 'Stairway' , the guy from the other band heard it, copied it - then page finished stairway later properly = now the other idiots sue zep . They are just sorry they ran out of money.
+LastOfTheMaguas their song was already out when they toured
If Led Zeppelin are screwed, then so is Spirit. Because the opening to Taurus sounds like the Gilligan's Island theme song, which came out in 1964, three years before Taurus. If no one believes me, Google 'Stairway to Gilligan's Island.'
Spirit ripped off television program.
The animals house of the rising sun sounds like taris
Not sure if you're trolling or serious...
Killngorillas For the most part, I'm serious. I'll even do you one better. When Stairway to Gilligan's Island was released back in the 1970s, the band that put it together was sued for copyright infringement by Led Zeppelin.
Although, when I said Spirit ripped off a TV program, I was saying that tongue-in-cheek.
Also sounds like Johnny Rivers Summer Rain and honestly loads of songs from past 60 years. But none of them has that great guitar solo or inspiring lyrics.
... was he being sarcastic? I don't get it. i mean they were both slow and acoustic sounding, with accents at the beginning of each measure for sure, but why did he take the position of " THEY'RE SCREWED, because obviously they ripped them off" instead of "wtf? frivolous lawsuit money grabbers are dumb" ?
Yeah, I had heard that Jimmy Page pretty much ripped it off, but honestly I was positively surprised now when I actually heard it.
Same rhythm. Also Taurus sounds like it could be the harmony to Stairway to Heaven
the baseline is identical. they just added on top of it.
Because it's Stephen Colbert and everything he says is sarcastic. Him saying "they're screwed" really meant "this lawsuit is dumb."
+brett norris Maybe on the colbert report... not late show
Honestly, this whole spate of "new" copyright claims feels like it's the public only now catching up with the musical world. Charles Ives, all of rock'n'roll, John Williams, there are millions of instances of "copyright infringement" that have been permitted over the years, and the least pursued have been the theft of music by black artists to be used by white performers (look at Elvis stealing Hound Dog, for instance).
More than anything though, these kinds of cases should be prosecuted by musical experts. I would argue that judges do not have enough knowledge about music history and individual music cultures to properly prosecute these cases and have unknowingly grown up with musical-social bias. Music scholars have the knowledge to be able to tell between plagiarism, homage, allusion, and coincidental similarity. This is just a case of the public arriving at the party incredibly late.
Elvis didn't steal hound dog. The writers that have the publishing gave it to him
judges don't have or may not have knowledge about music construction, the same way experts of music don't have or may not have knowledge about copyright laws. If the court has insufficient knowledge about a certain topic or subject, the prosecution or the plaintiff can call an "expert witness" to the stand to testify whether such allegations have merit. the "expert witness"in this particular case would be a music expert, as you have suggested. They are to declare to the court whether such claims, based on their expertise, is true in their line of work or practice.
It should further be mentioned that Leiber & Stoller, the writers of 'Hound Dog', were white.
amor macalalad I know judges call experts in cases, but the majority of literature put forward by music scholars suggests that judges tend to misrule in cases of copyright, or at least put financial implications over cultural ones. All too often, the financial implications of copyright lead to cultural decisions, even when the original artists wish their music to be used by others. Look at all the copyright claims made by Bridgeport Inc., a company that bought up copyrights from the original artists to prosecute minor uses of material. There are plenty of music scholars with a good in-depth knowledge of copyright who could examine cases.
That's not to say all judges are wrong though - the Blurred Lines case is going to be a landmark because it's one of the first instances of non-melodic content being properly prosecuted. However, there is a tendency in law for judges to rule in favour of the more prominent artist (which is a slightly different conversation but one well worth having), which could have contributed to the Gaye estate winning against Robin Thicke.
This Zeppelin case will be potentially precedent-setting for the same reason - if Spirit can win against Zeppelin, it would signal a shift away from larger-artist-bias. If I remember rightly though, I think they've tried to claim before unsuccessfully, so not sure which way it will go.
At the very least, music scholars should perhaps be given more time to fully explain historical and cultural differences in music to judges in order to minimise ignorance, even if nothing can be done to get rid of ingrained bias. Plus with all these historical claims, there's an undeniable cash-grab side to most copyright claims today which should be addressed, so maybe a limitation period on how late you can claim before it becomes financially motivated?
+Geo Vice Elvis could have shown some gratitude towards the inspiring and preexisting music scene....
The believable and hilarious thing about this is that Zeppelin actually TOURED with these guys....
SO....hello....they obviously know em. And the music.
and jimmy page has spirit records in his collection i personally love zeppelin music but defending them in this situation is pointless but i must say suing them after all those years on behave on someone who is dead is a little strange but huh i guess someone is low on $$$
+Ola Mola Exactly, they could have filed the lawsuit long ago why now? Well, as you said, someone might be low on dough and Stairway alone sells more than Spirit so...
+N3WR3N41554NC3 it's because a remaster was released in 2014. making a new statute
+N3WR3N41554NC3 The band never had the money to sue.
+TragestyX +I-love-youtube-videos Oh ok
They don't sound like it's even close to the same song
the beginning is almost indistinguishable
Music fans have been discussing the similarity online for years now. Not the entire song, just the intro to 'Stairway'. The similarity is undeniable, you cannot listen to 'Taurus' without being reminded of 'Stairway'. What's in question is the more technical issue of premeditated and deliberate copyright breach by Jimmy Page. Led Zeppelin has become notorious for ("allegedly") copping licks and lyrics from other people. Hopefully the judge isn't tone deaf like you seem to be.
Rex Mundi seems highly unlikely that the part isnt stolen
Could you stop copy-pasting this bullshit comment? Plant's solo work was not interesting in the slightest, Houses of the Holy is good, but doesn't rank anywhere near close to the top of LZ's albums. Saying that I, II, III and especially IV can be "left to history" is quite frankly borderline idiotic.
Listen to the unedited version right here on UA-cam, it sounds just like it. And if you did know, They also stole Dazed and Confused by Jake Holmes originally created in 1967, they also stole whole lot of love from muddy waters originally from 1963. And about 50 other songs, more then half there work isn't original and obviously stolen. Members of led even opened for these bands before they were famous.
Jimmy Page stole from a lot more artists than just Spirit, but he always twisted the idea just enough to avoid legal problems.
Or not. There's a reason that the writing credits on the first few Zeppelin albums are very different today than they were when they were released. Lots & lots of settling out of court.
stairway is not even remotely stolen from them - it's simply very different
Whole Lotta Love and Dazed and Confused are just two examples of their "nicking" other people's songs.
The fact that the audience can't differentiate between the two songs really shows the intellect of the average audience that watches Stephen Colbert. You can't copyright Chord Progressions, and they aren't even the same chord progressions
Stairway is from 71, why is this lawsuit just coming up now?
Copyright stays with the owner as long as they live and years after death if not handed to another person. So at any time a lawsuit could be brought up in music, if there is a decent case.
The led Zeppelin re release, which renews the copyright, which gives the Spirit estate legal ability to sue. Notice estate; all of the member are dead. It's their money grubbing beneficiaries that want to go to court.
Because the guy who wrote the song didn't care; his family is suing, I think.
peaceandllov Right? Nobody understands that the songwriters were completely OK with it, its these greedy kids that heard a similar chord progression so they jumped on it with the re release. I have news for them: you can't copyright chord progressions. If you could, every church hymn writer would be out of business lol
+Sam Boyd Everyone's greedy. Everyone who actually has skin in the game, anyway.
Peepee poopoo
nah.. jimmy page clearly stole a riff from spirit, obviously not thinking about the internet in 40 years. its fine, they made a much better song with that stolen riff.
dosage13 Haha yeah and the solo was what made the song for me.
fur else
Wrong. 'Taurus' is just a warm-up exercise for guitarists. Spirit was well-known in their time with at least three songs high in the prog-rock charts. And they are ALL DEAD NOW! Who is doing the suing here???
It's not a riff.
all sounds like fur eliese to me
Really? I'm legitimately curious.
how??? ofc i dont know if they share the chord progression.
Its not all about chord progression. If you learn fur eliese on guitar you will feel the similarities and could derive stairway from it. The "hit home" melody and harmony notes that define the song are similar.
Even think about the three last notes before the stairway repeats it could be leading ito fur eliese. Many songs use the same old chord progressions but thats not usually what defines the song....i.e. most hendrix songs are 3 chords but its the melodies and the harmonies that give the song texture
Also youtube has may videos of musicians mashing them up. Wich kind of shows my point
Basically, what im saying is that i think it was highly likely that whoever it was that wrote the stairway rif was learning or playing fur eliese on guitar and jumbled it up a bit. They certainly share a vibe
Even the cover of Zep 2 (The Brown Bomber) was stolen from a WW1 photo with band members faces edited onto it. Guilty as charged! No further questions your Honor!
There are bootlegs of very early Led Zeppelin jamming on Spirit's riff to Fresh Garbage and there is no doubt that ONLY the first few notes were borrowed from Spirit's Taurus, but NOT ENOUGH to prove thievery. Page also confessed to owning several Spirit albums- both bands toured together, as well. There is also a 1968 track by Spirit called “It’s All The Same” which contains a drum solo by Ed Cassidy. A distinctive section of this is lifted, beat by beat, in Moby Dick in 1969.
There's one big difference...Zeppelin version actually sounds good :D
Raging Wampa false, Nothing Zeppelin does is good! 😂
You're a dumbass. Spirit is a great great band.
they are both good but nothing is stolen
Overrated as hell
The songs don't sound alike at all, The Spirit are screwed, yes.
You must be partially deaf...
They are not the same song, this is just a fake lawsuit intended to bankrupt Led.
Douglas Fulmer Never said they were the same song. Look up Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby" compared to Queen and David Bowie's "Pressure." Vanilla Ice got sued by Queen and Queen won because there was enough evidence to prove that the songs were slightly similar. Also I doubt a band like Led Zeppelin could go bankrupt, especially from a copyright lawsuit.
That's cool, they're making money now from the shitty non-original "sue them" system instead of from making new music and being the best they can for their fans. How pathetic....
Bonnzai No, I am actually an audiophile who listens from a better system than you and I can hear the difference.
So... it's
Giovanni Battista Granata - "Sonata di Chitarra, e Violino, con il suo Basso Continuo" ( composed 1659)
Davy Graham - Cry Me A River (recorded 1953)
then... soon after...
Spirit - Taurus (record 1967)
then... soon after...
New Trolls - I would buy a road in (1968)
then... soon after...
Thoughts by Crow (1969)
Then soon after... Led Zeppelin -Stairway to heaven (record 1970)
Case closed people!
Tuxedo Jim Broadway...Back in the day, Grandmama would listen to him.
Other hits included, "A Whole Lot of Love for You, Darling", and "Black-Colored Doggie."
Unforgettable.
They are very different
are you deaf? the differences are minute
+Jerry Tripp and yet you mention "differences"...
+Jerry Tripp I think you're deaf.
almost exactly the same. the progression is just a variation of beethovens fur elies anyway
+smcg really?
I don't hear it.
And listening to the song spirit right now and I still can't hear it. The only similarity are those little notes in the start but if you listen carefully those are still not the same
+Rosen Bar hm...well justice prevails:Led Zeppelin Won the case! 🙌
+poe zick www.wdrb.com/story/32300775/led-zeppelin-wins-copyright-case-over-stairway-to-heaven
🕶
+poe zick lets take a moment to remember the victory once again. Mm
Here is what I believed happened. (Ive been writing music for several decades now) Page and Plant listened to this song by Spirit and said "let's write a song around this part of the song" Which is not an uncommon thing to do for composers. They just didn't alter it enough to get away with it. It may interest Zepheads to know that this is the third plagiarism charge against the group including for the songs "Whole Lotta Love" and "Dazed and Confused. "
hanoc101 oh please their dick riders dont care that Zeppelin nothing but untalented thieves and hacks.
@hanoc101, r u serious?! it's a common chord progression w/the notes played in different order for each chord. definitely not note for note. & if anyone has a case against zep, it would b giovanni for a passage that is almost note for note, in a piece of music he wrote about 300 yrs ago. "Which is not an uncommon thing to do for composers". i agree, but there is no hard evidence that, that's what happened. i am also a composer of many yrs. it may interest u to know that this is not the 3rd charge. there have been many before this 1.
The major difference is that Jimmy is creating a melody with his chord choices, rather than just crawling down half step at a time like Taurus. Also, he ends on much better, completely different chord.
Jimmy Page even admitted owning the album that Taurus is on, along with two other Spirit albums, but said that he didn't remember buying it and had never heard the song. Hm.
"I don't remember" always work out in court.
They toured together.
So what if they toured together. You really think Page was listening while Spirit was on stage, or was he in the back partying?
***** It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that he heard the song when they were touring together. And given that he owns the album that it appears on, he presumably heard it on record at least once. To be generous, maybe it was a subconscious thing.
Two things. First, they never toured together. Both groups played at two different musical festivals. Second, Page said that he owns 5,000 albums and didn't even know that two Taurus albums were in it.
And finally the only similarity is in the fact that they are acoustical guitar bits with descending chord progression. The chords are not the same or in the same order.
Here are two poems titled "Trees". One by Joyce Kilmer and one by me. Are they the same?
I think that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree.
A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the earth's sweet flowing breast;
A tree that looks at God all day,
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;
A tree that may in summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;
Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain.
Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.
Joyce Kilmer
Some people are just like a tree
They grown along so quietly
That we can never fully see
Their beauty and their majesty
Then comes a day when they must die
And we are left to ponder why
How we could miss with open eye
A tree that nearly touched the sky
Me
just because one song is similar to another does not mean it ripped it off. In fact, modern radio pop recycles the same chord progressions over and over these days.
Blue skies--Irving Berlin
My funny valentine--Richard Rogers.
i agree. "blue skys "never occurred to me, but it's true.
They're different. And either way, it's mind blowing that someone can be sued over a combination of musical notes.
dis·il·lu·sioned
ˌdisəˈlo͞oZHənd/
adjective
disappointed in someone or something that one discovers to be less good than one had believed.
well when that someone make a shit ton of money and you get fuck all, some panties might get in a bunch
+TheAceJokers huh?
LazyWhiteK1d
DIS·IL·LU·SIONED
ˌDISƏˈLO͞OZHƏND/
ADJECTIVE
DISAPPOINTED IN SOMEONE OR SOMETHING THAT ONE DISCOVERS TO BE LESS GOOD THAN ONE HAD BELIEVED.
LazyWhiteK1d its a definition of the word disillusioned, it's very applicable to your situation
Ah, in fairness, you can definitely hear the similarity.
That's true. But there are thousands of similarly sounding songs not only in the rock genre, but overall. If descending cords and acoustic guitars are enough for an succesfull lawsuit, than it's not only LZ who's fucked, but the whole industry.
+overTIMe all of rock is based on three fucking chords. It's a mathematical certainty that eventually we will cover the same ground
Or is it the fact Jimmy Page copped a song from a band he was touring with and who's albums he owned - and knew he just had to barely change it to be safe because nobody cared about Taurus. I'm going to wait for the outcome of the case either way.
Brad Moran Exactly.
It doesn't matter how similar they are. All that matters in copyright law is if one was copied from the other.
Theyre both slow acoustic picked chords, thats been done A LOT, once you learn music theory you learn that a ridiculous amount of music is the exact same thing played differently, i wouldnt be suprised is Page thought of it, recorded it, and just so happened to sound similar. Ive came up with riffs before and had people go, "isnt that just so and so by so and so?" Then after hearing it im just like, well shit... On a Side note Page is a genius. Hes written a ton of fills, riffs, and solos that are undisputedly his.
In 2016, a jury found that there were no obvious similarities between the two songs but were not allowed to hear the tracks, only see the sheet music for them.
The entire song is different so it's weird that they're being sued for the intro but still... that intro is most DEFINITELY stolen :D. I mean come on! They sound almost exactly alike :D
No they don't. You must be tone deaf.
Brad Moran actually I play guitar which makes it even more obvious how similar these two songs are. The chord progression is the same, the rhythm is exactly the same... the only thing that differs is the sequence of tones in the same chords.
It'd be as if I played Knocking on heaven's door but played a slightly different sequence of strings in the same chords
+Gapi P dude i play and that doesnt matter at all they are barely similar its no big deal
not really taurus just keeps lowering. Plus if you sue because two songs are close but not quite by 2020 we wont have anymore music
+Gapi P that is true man!
The starting few notes of that progression is really, really common.
The biggest waste of the court system I can imagine. The common notes are nothing more than an extremely worn progression that could be found in dozens of other songs. Furthermore, the music following this simple note series bears no resemblance to Taurus at all. It should be thrown out as a spurious claim, and the judge should assess the plaintiffs with court costs and make them compensate Plant and Page for their time.
i 2nd that emotion but would also add howard stern for pressuring randy california's family to sue.
Literally the only things taurus has in common is harmonic progression, and a descending chromatic bass line, neither of which is copyrightable, the only things that are copyrightable are melody and lyrics, and taurus has nothing resembling the actual melody of stairway to heaven.
It's an idea. Descending melodic bass line. Dangerous precedent, at this rate, the Bach foundation is in for a huge payday
Led Zep and most other bands in the 60-80s "stole" stuff from other bands, there is a long list of stuff Led Zep has "stolen". That's because before the days of money hungry lawsuits it was pretty acceptable. What, do you think it took Spirit 45+ years to notice?????
Metallica's "Welcome Home" riff was stolen from Bleak House's "Rainbow Warrior" which was stolen from The Strawb's "Down by the Sea". It just the kinda shit that happened back then.
i wouldnt call it stealing so much as sampling...
Actually Metallica bought the rights of that song because they made a similar rift, they also bought it for way more of what it's worth as a apology. Led has like 50+ songs there currently being sued for right now. Not only that, led opened for a lot of the bands they stole from. Sometimes people make similar music, but led obviously stole more then half there songs/instrumental and still hasn't given a dime to the people who made it.
Or being inspired by.
Bob dykan stole dont think twice from who will feed your chickens
lol the song was released over 40 fucking years ago and they decide to sue now?
They have been trying to sue since the song for a long time now, led is just a fucking asshat scumbag.
It's because now that song is worth serious bank
The thing that makes this case interesting was not only was Jimmy Page aware of Taurus, he had the album this song was on at the time and Led Zeppelin appeared with Spirit a couple times. They were well aware of both Spirit and their music before Stairway to Heaven was written. It is very likely inspired or copied. In the lawsuit, Page has repeatedly said there is no inspiration here and absolutely no similarity. He even said Mary Poppins is closer to Stairway than Taurus is. This is a pretty dangerous way to go with this, especially since Zeppelin has had to settle similar cases in the past.
If you take a word " babe" out of Zeppelin's lyrics half of the lyrics will be gone.
Haha, I thought similarly of their use of "babe" in their songs, however, Stairway to Heaven, oddly enough, doesn't have a single "babe" lyric in it.
Only from the casual songs. Their best, including No Quarter, Achilles Last Stand, Immigrant Song, Houses of the Holy, and of course Stairway have barely any filler words.
That 5th note descending lone is also used in "My Funny Valentine". Maybe that author should sue Spirit?
And there was a classical piece even earlier, that sounds more like S.T.H., than Taurus does.
I say there's no valid case here.
Don't step on the Zep!
If the riff don't fit, you must aquit!
Easier to edit this way since I'm on this phone-
"5 note descending line"
If the two passages sound substantially the same, then you copied. Ask George Harrison. That Zep passage is closer to Spirit than My Sweet Lord was to He's So Fine.
If you know jackshit about music theory you'd say this is not plagiarism.
Dazed and confuzed & lemon song thats plagiarism not this shit.
First, court precedent on music copyright states you can't copyright a chord progression alone. Second, this chord progression is simply known as a "chromatic descending tetrachord" or a "lamento bass," and it's been used by composers from at least the 1600s on, from Purcell's "When I am laid in Earth" to Bach's Crucifixus from the B minor mass, to old standards like "Chim Chim Cheree" to more modern pop. Perhaps the earliest strong resemblance is Giovanni Battista Granata's "Sonata di Chittarra e Violino" published in 1659, but the basic structure of the progression goes back further to Andalusian guitar riffs of the 1500s and perhaps earlier. Perhaps Led Zeppelin was inspired by this specific song, but it could also have been literally hundreds of other pieces that have used this progression for at least 400 years.
They've been stealing and not giving credit for YEARS. If all the artists they've stole from came up and sued Led (which they'd be completely right to do) they'd be in court until the day they die.
They've had "inspiration" from a lot of bands...
There is a difference between stealing from and inspired by. You can make a case that other LedZep songs and lyrics are stolen, but can you say that a reggae band can sue another reggae band or a blues band can sue another blues band. These are just two songs from the similar genres. Can you honestly say that you're listen to the same song?
If you're making bank off someone's else's song and they're making none, that's called theft and plagiarism.
Rolling Ormond yes and Stairway to Heaven does not belong to Spirit.
Brenton Bolderoff Zep ripped off so many other artists, the Spirit case is small potatoes in any case.
+Rolling Ormond Finally, someone who has done their homework.
MrBrenman21 Yes they did; taking someone else's song and just cranking the volume doesn't mean you wrote it. Sorry :(
A lot of the RIffs Led Zeppelin as well as the Who used were lifted from other artist. There is a great series on line called everything is everything's a remix. IT has tons and tons of information and history.
1971 - Zep, "Stairway"
1968 - Spirit, "Taurus"
1963 - The Modern Folk Quartet, "To Catch a Shad"
Looks like Spirit should be sued as well
problem is they've stolen a dozen songs or more.
Face it, they're thieves
The problem is not that the chords are the same. The problem is that Led Zeppelin opened for Spirit and toured with them before Stairway was even written
Why the hell hasn't the statute of limitations run out on this claim?
Don't care, still the best music to listen to
It's a chromatic scale, you can't copyright a chromatic scale unless you are the one who first created the chromatic scale.
The important factor Stephen didn't mention: Spirit toured with Zeppelin. Jimmy Ripped it off. He made it a million times better, but he ripped that tune off.
Eh. That chord progression has been around since the 1600s. Besides, the opening chord progression doesn't take up the majority of the song.
All musicians steal from each other. Some call it "inspiration".
Its known for years now nothing new
so what they ripped a little part of a song that no heard of. its not like people gonna stop listening to stairway to heaven. its an all-time classic.
The guys from Led Zeppelin have heard of them . . .
Spirit was pretty big
Led Zeppelin and spirt toured together, and the thing thats fucked is that its not even the guitarist whos suing led Zeppelin but the front man of spirt
Good artists copy, great artists steal.
- Picasso
yeah colbert . You're right again. just like you were with your 2016 presidential election predictions. Well guess what? Zeppelin won the lawsuit. btw, you know nothing about chord progressions. That pattern has been around for centuries not decades. XD
mad cuz Zeppelin wrote the better version of their riff
The intro passages are largely the same. Not sure you can say which was better.
Attorneys for Jimmy Page and Robert Plant have argued that the distinctive opening guitar passage of “Stairway to Heaven” uses a common progression that has been around for hundreds of years.
In fact, a composition by Italian composer Giovanni Battista Granata uses this same progression-and nearly the same melody heard in “Stairway to Heaven.” The work, “Sonata di Chittarra, e Violino, con il suo Basso Continuo,” was composed in 1659.
The passage, which occurs at the 0:32, is strikingly similar to the “Stairway to Heaven” intro and has more in common with it than “Taurus,” the 1968 instrumental composition by the group Spirit that Page and Plant are accused of plagiarizing.
Now 357 years old, Granata’s composition is in the public domain and not subject to copyright.
Lost it when he said "They're screwed..."
That grin got me lol
inb4 content I.D. claim
Good artists copy, great artists steal.
Peace.
That was just a snippet and I havent heard the whole song of the "original" but its hard to create and maybe even impossible to have a good chord progression that hasnt been used before, and also arpegiating up chords isnt a totally new idea, but if Led Zepplin does have other songs that bear similar resemblences to other songs, then it may not be out of question that they took ideas from the "original" song.
Its an arpeggio over a very common chord progression. The defining moment of the zeppelin song is the syncopated 'dun dun du' at the end.
Jesus christ the mental hoops people will jump through to defend their idols. 9_9
They stole from every blues artist
James Monahan stoke isn’t really the right word
Literally every single genre of western music originated from the blues with this logic who ever created blues can pretty much sue every single musicians that came after him
I remember this being on the Colbert Report back in the day
really?
not surprised tho…
colbert is a bit of a puff piece
They have a segment about this on the documentary Everything is a Remix. Zeppelin took a lot of things from other artists.
Zep ripped off so many other artists - Small Faces, Willie Dixon, Ritchie Valens, Bert Jansch, Jake Holmes, Anne Deardon - whether or not they ripped off Spirit is pretty moot.
They did not sound the same to me at all xD
if these were both completely unknown bands the majority would say that it was stolen but since ppl already love zep too long they will deny it and that's human nature
as a guitar player, these riffs are super fucking similar. It's not just the chords, it's the rythym of the chords.
Led Zeppelin is the greatest cover band ever!! I don't care what anybody says
AND the greatest originals band too!
The worst part is this guy trying so hard to be funny😫😫
But he is funny. Are you a mad salty Lep Zeppelin fan?
+Lanz22 Are you a mad salty stephen colbert fan?
Are you a mad and salty nobody?
Wow, some bots start trolling me😱
Boio Wallace I'm the one asking the questions thank you.
There are similar elements but they are NOT identical. Also, as others have said it's only the intro of Stairway and the rest of the song is very unique. Zep has 'borrowed' from other artists in a much more obvious way than this with some old blues songs. Musicians are influenced by what we hear and there are only so many musical notes in the chromatic scale.
Anyone remember "Girl Watching Music' from the 60's. That's exactly what 'Taurus' sounds like, more so than 'Stairway'.