Oscillation is a byproduct of the way FFB works.. It is due to the FFB not knowing whether YOU have turned the wheel or it is an effect of movement caused by the reaction of the wheel to a movement caused by Road or car input.. Less Dampened wheel bases at higher force settings will be more prone to oscillatory behavior as the Armatures are lighter and the force exerted is greater. SimuCUBE and Asetek have slew settings which most other wheels do not that allows control of acceleration which significantly help in this respect as well The SimuCUBE Pro and other 20+ Nm wheels generally have much more Natural Damping due to the physical weight of the Armature.. There are ways through filtering to control Oscilation and those include using Friction to Electronically weight the wheel and Inertia to cause a resistance of initial direction change. Damping itself is normally rotation speed sensitive and for the most part is for fine tuning the feel of quick change moments but it generally is relatively light usage (hence why you generally have to add alot of damping to feel any effects) Speed Sensitive damping will help a little and more if they significantly up the damping levels to the point of over damping the system. Friction will work better but it weights the wheel down everywhere. inertia as mentioned before tends to work the best with a combination of friction and or damping to stop the initial movement quicker. So basically as a summary if you want your wheel to be as active as possible (feel every little detail) you will probably have to live with some degree of oscillatory behavior. The Good thing is that in this video I would say the oscillations are relatively well controlled even when swinging back and forth, a very badly controlled oscillation is one that is actually so strong that you are forced to let go of the wheel OR where when you are not holding the wheel they get so bad as to literally turn into the wall.. If you can have the back and forth and the car still maintains a fairly straight trajectory the oscilation power is not all that bad. Your arm weight is the major damping factor for oscillation which is why generally it is not recommended to let go of the wheel completely while driving.
Says oscillation isn’t fixed while showing that oscillation stops in the very same video segment, then you proceed to nudge it again it oscillates a bit then stops, not only that you don’t seem to know how to configure puthouse because even before this update I didn’t have oscillation issues, just properly dampen it. It’s hard to take this review seriously
Everything you hear from the reviewer is only his subjective opinion. There have been no innovative breakthroughs in the field of servo motors over the past decade. The experience of using various DD databases is great, with blind testing you will not be able to distinguish one base power from another, many of them are built on an industrial MiGE 130ST-M10010 engine, including simcube-1.VRS® Wheelbase DirectForce® Pro. Everything is controlled by the STM32 microcontroller. But everyone has their own handwriting, a lot depends on the software, which is constantly updated. Moza from two years ago and the current one are very different from each other, more than 12 software updates have been released. So take what you like best, taking into account the ecosystem and more profitable.
I have very different base settings so YMMV, I do agree that without a very tuned setup some things still feel robotic, whichever firmware you're on. Oscillation on my settings are at worst, more of a really small shake rather than a rattling side to side. Some games even have 0 oscillation which was impressive to me.
After the discount on r12 simagic is nowhere near the pricepoint when it comes to EU (499 vs 600) Also r12 has only 15bit encoder while simagic rocks 18bit
@@filipivan5125 In the video he compared it with a $800 Fanatec Clubsport DD. And even referenced it against an Asetek Invicta ($1,300 base only) and Simucube 2 pro ($1,380 base only). Prices will differ everywhere. Here in the US R12 and the Simagic Alpha mini are $40 difference. Price aside the Fanatec Clubsport DD, Moza R12, Simagic Alpha mini, Asetek La Prima, etc.. are all directly competing in that 10-12NM area. And imo all these bases shouldn't be above $500
I don’t have any problems with the oscillation anymore even after I let it go I could hit a curb other than the feedback no oscillation at all. The difference in force feedback was also very noticeable for me. And I’m not very happy with MOZA right now for a completely unrelated customer service situation. I told them I was going to light their ass up on UA-cam but like I sati that was a customer service issue.
Completely disagree. I feel everything way more now. And oscillations are almost fully gone. Bias review , compared to most people on discord agree w me
Thank you for testing back and fprth instead of placebo over one bit of adjustment! It only feels more natural. I hate how over played this update is. Because then it limits the brand improving even further when people just hype it up moza and other brands in the same way would go alright cool lets move foward onto other things lol. Also im sry testing isnt all different for preferences. If you feel more detail yoy feel more detail. If you feel more speed you feel more speed. If you feel it being more natural you feel that. Its not about what you like or prefer more its abour what you feel. Imo everyone has well over hyped it. We need more reviews like this.
Good job. They are really good at marketing and hype. Unfortunately most people will be happy as it is natural to want validation for their purchases. Until they have actually tested others. And the sad fact is that most, not all, reviewers are not going to want to offend manufacturers. Ironically it's harder because the more popular the channel gets the more there is to lose.
You’ll believe the one dissenting review, but not the others who have and test this. lol conformational bias is a helluva drug. Not only does this tester not know how to configure outhouse but they also show improvements to oscillation while saying oscillation isn’t fixed in anyway, yea cmon just call it for what it is friend. Now I’m not saying they don’t have faults but this video definitely does not inspire confidence in their testing at all
@@wandrinsheep except this is not the only dissenting view. It is also evident that moza has been lagging behind and this attempt at catch up, which is commendable, is still proof of it
there is no such thing is FFB 3.0 its just a marketing show.. artificial jerky software FFB 2.0 that can support true force of full force (like logitech and fanatec) is true and legit though
This is probably the worst video I’ve watched in a while while reviewing a beta
Agreed.
About oscillation. There is a setting in the moza pithouse where you can dampen the wheel based on the speed you are going. Completely fixes it...
Some people have bo clue.. moza now leading brand. Fannytech gone thank god.
Fannytech xD
@Andybarney555 you spoke too soon. Corsair bought fanatec and it's here to stay! Probably will be better than ever.
People tend to stay away from damping effects since they ultimately dampen the ffb detail aswell
@@Squeezy01 sure but it seems the force feedback detail in that situation (the oscillation) is unwanted?
Oscillation is a byproduct of the way FFB works.. It is due to the FFB not knowing whether YOU have turned the wheel or it is an effect of movement caused by the reaction of the wheel to a movement caused by Road or car input..
Less Dampened wheel bases at higher force settings will be more prone to oscillatory behavior as the Armatures are lighter and the force exerted is greater. SimuCUBE and Asetek have slew settings which most other wheels do not that allows control of acceleration which significantly help in this respect as well The SimuCUBE Pro and other 20+ Nm wheels generally have much more Natural Damping due to the physical weight of the Armature..
There are ways through filtering to control Oscilation and those include using Friction to Electronically weight the wheel and Inertia to cause a resistance of initial direction change. Damping itself is normally rotation speed sensitive and for the most part is for fine tuning the feel of quick change moments but it generally is relatively light usage (hence why you generally have to add alot of damping to feel any effects)
Speed Sensitive damping will help a little and more if they significantly up the damping levels to the point of over damping the system. Friction will work better but it weights the wheel down everywhere. inertia as mentioned before tends to work the best with a combination of friction and or damping to stop the initial movement quicker.
So basically as a summary if you want your wheel to be as active as possible (feel every little detail) you will probably have to live with some degree of oscillatory behavior.
The Good thing is that in this video I would say the oscillations are relatively well controlled even when swinging back and forth, a very badly controlled oscillation is one that is actually so strong that you are forced to let go of the wheel OR where when you are not holding the wheel they get so bad as to literally turn into the wall.. If you can have the back and forth and the car still maintains a fairly straight trajectory the oscilation power is not all that bad.
Your arm weight is the major damping factor for oscillation which is why generally it is not recommended to let go of the wheel completely while driving.
Says oscillation isn’t fixed while showing that oscillation stops in the very same video segment, then you proceed to nudge it again it oscillates a bit then stops, not only that you don’t seem to know how to configure puthouse because even before this update I didn’t have oscillation issues, just properly dampen it.
It’s hard to take this review seriously
Indeed...
Could you explain what settings to use as an example, please ? 😊
@@TrueBlade-1889 he already say it , damping.
Turning up natural inertia stops the oscillations.
Just to add, the beta software also works with the R9 bases and below now
Good thing the firmware is still in beta testing
i´d love a moza r12 vs simagic alpha mini video
Everything you hear from the reviewer is only his subjective opinion. There have been no innovative breakthroughs in the field of servo motors over the past decade. The experience of using various DD databases is great, with blind testing you will not be able to distinguish one base power from another, many of them are built on an industrial MiGE 130ST-M10010 engine, including simcube-1.VRS® Wheelbase DirectForce® Pro. Everything is controlled by the STM32 microcontroller. But everyone has their own handwriting, a lot depends on the software, which is constantly updated. Moza from two years ago and the current one are very different from each other, more than 12 software updates have been released. So take what you like best, taking into account the ecosystem and more profitable.
I have very different base settings so YMMV, I do agree that without a very tuned setup some things still feel robotic, whichever firmware you're on. Oscillation on my settings are at worst, more of a really small shake rather than a rattling side to side. Some games even have 0 oscillation which was impressive to me.
Small steps to a big improvement is way better than taking big steps and having to take big steps back
Good video but what you fail to mention is Simagic Alpha mini. Which is really the R12's biggest competition in this price range
That's a good point! Maybe we should do a comparison video soon.
@@simsportgadget Yup, you really should
After the discount on r12 simagic is nowhere near the pricepoint when it comes to EU (499 vs 600) Also r12 has only 15bit encoder while simagic rocks 18bit
@@filipivan5125 In the video he compared it with a $800 Fanatec Clubsport DD. And even referenced it against an Asetek Invicta ($1,300 base only) and Simucube 2 pro ($1,380 base only). Prices will differ everywhere. Here in the US R12 and the Simagic Alpha mini are $40 difference. Price aside the Fanatec Clubsport DD, Moza R12, Simagic Alpha mini, Asetek La Prima, etc.. are all directly competing in that 10-12NM area. And imo all these bases shouldn't be above $500
@@filipivan5125 Where do you get the information from, what encoder is installed? Some sellers write 16 bits in the description.
I don’t have any problems with the oscillation anymore even after I let it go I could hit a curb other than the feedback no oscillation at all. The difference in force feedback was also very noticeable for me. And I’m not very happy with MOZA right now for a completely unrelated customer service situation. I told them I was going to light their ass up on UA-cam but like I sati that was a customer service issue.
3:18 great driving lol
Just ordered my R12 a few days ago. Can't wait for it to come in. Here's hoping it doesn't take a damn month for me to get it...
how long did it take?
Because i just bought one and i hope it comes this friday!!!
the only difference i felt was the significant reduction of occelastion in iRacing, assetto corsa is still the same, good update though
all i got to say is Moza is awesome, don't care what this fool said
Completely disagree. I feel everything way more now. And oscillations are almost fully gone.
Bias review , compared to most people on discord agree w me
3:11 - is this acc? Which track is it?
will old bases (v1, the 3 pins ones) get this too?
Да будет, можете даже сейчас это попробовать, поставив бета прошивку.
@@shev_a7777 spasivo
How about to add GT7 support, duh?
Thank you for testing back and fprth instead of placebo over one bit of adjustment! It only feels more natural.
I hate how over played this update is. Because then it limits the brand improving even further when people just hype it up moza and other brands in the same way would go alright cool lets move foward onto other things lol.
Also im sry testing isnt all different for preferences. If you feel more detail yoy feel more detail. If you feel more speed you feel more speed. If you feel it being more natural you feel that. Its not about what you like or prefer more its abour what you feel.
Imo everyone has well over hyped it.
We need more reviews like this.
Good job. They are really good at marketing and hype. Unfortunately most people will be happy as it is natural to want validation for their purchases. Until they have actually tested others. And the sad fact is that most, not all, reviewers are not going to want to offend manufacturers. Ironically it's harder because the more popular the channel gets the more there is to lose.
You’ll believe the one dissenting review, but not the others who have and test this. lol conformational bias is a helluva drug. Not only does this tester not know how to configure outhouse but they also show improvements to oscillation while saying oscillation isn’t fixed in anyway, yea cmon just call it for what it is friend. Now I’m not saying they don’t have faults but this video definitely does not inspire confidence in their testing at all
@@wandrinsheep except this is not the only dissenting view. It is also evident that moza has been lagging behind and this attempt at catch up, which is commendable, is still proof of it
No it won’t feel very good in ACC if your wheel rotation doesn’t match the in game rotation 😂
there is no such thing is FFB 3.0 its just a marketing show..
artificial jerky software
FFB 2.0 that can support true force of full force (like logitech and fanatec) is true and legit though
How can you review something that's still in beta and changing regularly?
Because people want the details now. I'm sure he'll do another video when the final version goes public.