I always loved that my 740 Volvo used Mahle filters and I think pistons.. we were religious about those filters. One day I’ll build back my resto mod 740 that is nice to travel and eats roads. So much space to make your own subframe,motor mounts and even for a AWD system.
Having been fortunate enough to do a factory tour at Cosworth, it was amazing to see the steps taken from start to finish. A lot of which are not covered here. These guys are the peak of the industry. The real good stuff cameras are not allowed anywhere near.
Thats almost exactly what i do everyday 😳 (with medical parts). CAM programming… get that shit working… then getting it accurate… tight tolerances selfcontrol via programmed probe… tool breakage management…. Getting the pallet loader ready… and hope that i dont need to call the service at the next monday morning 😅 (sorry for possible mistakes in my pronunciation... german here 🤷♂️) (Just read it with an heavy german accent 😂)
@@afrimlargimi16382 it depends heavily on the point of view (from your perspective thats obviously right). But my Customers (and Customers in general) tolerate their parts with a reason. I always say im as accurate as i have to be. As a process optimizer i need to consider a lot of things... making the process as fast as possible (to make a profit out of it) while keeping the customer happy beeing the top concerns. i also heavily doubt that parts that are milled on a machine with that size (DMU monoblock 65, 75 or even bigger) get down to that tolerances... milling in general as i believe. but thats very interesting. with such small tolerances the ambient temperature control has to be a critical factor. how do you manufacture your parts? Wire EDM?? Again sorry for eventual grammar errors 😅
THE most successful F1 engine. Cosworth DFV. Twelve times an F1 driver had a DFV at their backs when winning a title. Units progressively developed proved competitive from 1968 until 1982, when the turbocharged engines had finally started to become more reliable and performant.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 For a road racing engine staying NA makes a lot of sense as the throttle response will normally allow the driver to make better use of traction while cornering. For maximum power of course the turbo engine is going to be able to make more...but lowest lap times are the goal and more power often doesn't translate into lower times. When the Penske Team first got their 917/30's driver Mark Donahue complained that the throttle response was non-existent which made them very difficult to drive. Porsche engineers scoffed at them saying 'It's a racing engine and we don't worry about part throttle power'. Penske then made their own spool valves for the FI system which would allow good control all through the throttle range and even though they made less maximum power...they allowed Donahue to drive it much faster. On the Porsche test track when the modified spool valves were tested, over the Porsche engineers objections, Donahue cut several seconds from the cars lap record which proved the point that drive-ability means more than absolute maximum power.
Here's one for you, of the two types of performance pistons it's generally accepted that forged, like you see here, is stronger than Hypereutectic. However when Kawasaki designed and developed that silly fast turbocharged H2R they released about 7 or 8 years ago (if it was longer than that please don't remind me, I don't need to feel any older than I am) they went with Hypereutectic instead of forged pistons. They found during development of it that forged is indeed stronger than Hypereutectic, until you start getting into the ridiculous combustion chamber temperatures that go along with turbocharging a racing engine, seems that at those temperatures forged pistons start losing their strength wherein Hypereutectic one's dont.
Erm, try putting up a video on how to prevent people from kidnapping ones kids and see how quickly it gets banned by UA-cam. I know from experience, as that's exactly what UA-cam did, and they wouldn't listen yo any appeals. Tells you who they are.
Last time i remember MMC pistons being used was in the V10 era. Honda used them in 2004 and 2005 seasons.Their aluminium piston in 2003 weighed 251g, then 2004-2005 seasons their MMC pistons weighed between 210g to 226g. A 40 to 25g saving is around a 10% saving!
So we are still looking for a better "alloy", but not "too exotic".? A quick glance at the periodic table tells us we have only Ceramics left, but thats a good thing..
Yeah. I look forward to when they can start upgrading their engines again. Would wish teams had a. It more leeway in the aero though so we could see some more variation
Given the long history of the ICE, as well as Cosworth's experience (and its database), it doesn't seem that "crazy" to me. Been in the product development world for 30 years as an ME, spending most of my time as contract engineering and product development. That diverse environment, where we don't iterate much on what already is, has been really exciting. One project I'm working on a nitro-infused cold coffee machine, then I'm working on flow and structural analysis of wind turbine blades. My advice to engineers who are enticed by constant challenges like that are to find employment with those contract development firms.
Well crap! I feel ancient at 63! Just kidding, you do whatever you want to at whatever age as I’m doing exactly that at 63. Good luck to you my friend.
At 59 now, I know I would never have qualified for a job at Cosworth, although I could quite happily sweep the workshop floors should they have a vacancy for that position. 😉
I worked for Porsche factory team during the 919 programme and all of the machines we used for manufacturing were DMG Mori. The capabilities of modern manufacturing is simply mind boggling. I remember having an SS pin for a clevice on the car manufactured, this pin was 43.4mm long and 2.04mm wide with a ball on either end and it within 1 micron.
I recently went to DMG in Bielefeld for a training course. On the way to the training center there is a huge model of the 919 that was milled from a solid block of aluminum.
its amazing when you think the industrial revelation wasn't that long ago really. Before that we made every nut and bolt to fit together, not any nut on any bolt.
I am a CNC machinist. Been doing it a long time, and consider myself pretty good. That machine that can turn ovals at 3000 rpm is absolutely mental. Even a slight oval. That machine must be made out of unobtanuum to stay rigid!
I'm betting the tour and the talking points were written by marketeers, not engineers. And the person saying the story was told this is what to say if you want to keep your cuhsy job.
This was fascinating! Seriously, by the title and past videos on other channels I thought that this would be a factory tour kind of thing. I could watch machine tools and their operators all day.
Not sure about the comments below, that Aluminium and Beryllium mix well, as an alloy. Our company did some of this for Space applications, and there was a problem with the thermal expansion rates of the various crystallites, within the matrix. As a result, after very heavy thermal cycling, there became zipper faults, and delaminations within the materials, which could not be repaired during the repressurization cycles. As such, these materials will have a defined cycling life, at or over their thermal cycling regimen. Beryllium moves very little, Aluminium moves a lot, and does not recover if strained to crushing (especially in oxygen atmosphere). Inside the piston, that may not be a problem, but just the atomic bonding dimensions seem to be against this. Somebody probably compared the atomic weights, and decided that an alloy would be lighter. Why NOT make Aluminium and Lithium pistons, like they do for airframes and spacecrafts. I'd like to see some F1 cars using AL/LI pistons as a test. Would they melt into failure after 10-miles, or not. Active cooling could be used.
1) Active cooling is of course used in F1 engines, it is called an 'oil gallery'. It sprays the pistons with oil from below. Also common in high power cars. 2) As far as I remember, AlLi has limited hot strength, thus the nr. 1 alloy is still AA2618 or derived from it (average piston crown temp can be >250 or 300°C, derived from softening curves). And also, the price is of concern, believe it or not. Today, there is a tendency to go back to steels and use a design more like the pistons shown here. The pressures are getting ever higher year by year. An Al piston must be very tall in a turbo engine. 3) The piston weight is not the most important parameter. The piston pin is WAY more important, it is the single most important part, because as a connecting element, it affects both piston and conrod. And as long these are made of steels.... 4) It has become of lesser interest to reduce piston weight, because modern F1 engines don't rev very high anyway (forces are ~ m.r.omega²). 5) Al and Be, of course mix very well indeed. Just look at a phase diagram, not a single ordered phase in it! Perhaps you had some foreign element? 6) In fact, the pistons Mika Hakkinen won his two titles with were made from Albemet. A birdie told me they had Be detectors at the factory, and any dry process was strictly prohibited. Ferrari thus protested and since then Be is banned above a certain w%. But it is still used as alloying element. Where? I wont tell. 🙂And also you probably wear a belt buckle containing Be.
I worked for an aerospace company that built the turbine blades for jet engines. I ran a CMM machine and the tolerances at machining division were sometimes +/- 0.0015 of inch. We worked with single crystal castings that the entire blade was one crystal top to bottom. The machining cos worth is doing is similar to aerospace jet engines. What an interesting place to work! Great video, brings back some good memories and I learned a thing or two about F1.
I’ve worked in both F1 as engineering, (using Siemens NX and Solidworks) and programming mazak twin turret cnc lathes, and also for Martin Baker making parts for the Ejection seats used in airforce jets, and the manufacture processes are almost identical. What some may not realise is, in F1 there is a ZERO acceptance for any tolerance deviation, whereas in Ejector seats, there’s a lot more scope! The other side of the story is, F1 teams are happy to pay ridiculous amounts of money for the most simplest things, yet military contracts want to save money on everything!!
Most military items are much larger and more mass produced, even the typhoon may reach 750. Where as f1 only need a handful of engines/chassis of each design. Also there is less risk of tolerance where human flight is involved. But if you see the production process of the latest military jet engines you will see some things even f1 doesn't get involved with. There are many technologies that have filtered down from military/aircraft world into f1 such as carbon composites.
The level of precision, engineering and technology involved in F1 still amazes me. It’s on another planet and right up there with aerospace engineering. The fact just one piston costs £50k is astounding and no doubt is one reason why just a F1 power unit costs more than an entire car in other motorsports like Indycar or a Le Mans Hypercar.
One part that was not covered that i feel is remarkable is the pistons only have 2 ring stacks compared to a traditional 3 ring stack, very cool right up thank you,
My old moped tuning kit had 2 piston rings... I swear the commenters (and presenter) are making this out to be much more complicated than it really is - as if some F1 circlejerk is taking place.
Wow I didn't realize it took this much work and technology for Pistons. Can't imagine the work that goes into the engine block crank cams. Awsome video
Brilliant, very interesting thank you and Cosworth. Before just increasing ones turbo boost or oversize injectors people need to watch this to understand why an engine designed for say 250bhp will blow when producing 400bhp without being redesigned and using all correct components. Thank you again. Not only the engine design but those engineering machines are amazing. Shame I’m in my 70s, after this I would like to be an apprentice again!
Coming from machining myself, it really seems like it only cost £50,000 per unit because they just sort of can charge that much. Nothing so far has been super exotic.
cost is estimated by how much waste product comes out and energy "hours and people" to put in to one final product, i bet there are millions are wasted in R&D. same in bikes for example . one in 100$ one is 5-6k same fucking product same shape and function
also we forget there are 2 kind of engineers. one wich allows himself +- 1-2% error margin, and one with 0.05 to 0.1% acceptable error, if not, just redo until its perfect. michelin star chefs are as good as normal chefs and vice versa . the precision makes the price tag and difference
This has become an educational video that should be watched by all engineering colleagues undergoing orientation in all automotive companies. Thank you!
Wow, this video is so interesting! I can't believe how sophisticated the process of making pistons for Formula 1 cars is. The advanced technology and attention to detail is really impressive. Thanks for sharing the fascinating pictures and information from the factory. I learned a lot of new things about this industry.
Cosworth does not have an F1 Engine Program and is mainly involved in the IndyCar Series. The vast majority of F1 Engine manufacturers use Mahle Pistons from Germany. Even the Ferrari Team uses Mahle.
Mercury marine racing division 2.5 litre 2 cycle v 6's racing motors use mahle pistons I own one and will rev 10000+ rpm and every stroke is a power stroke
That was certainly an eye opener. I've rebuilt quite a number of engines in my life but that's the first time I've seen an impressive parts production video especially by a huge manufacturer like Cosworth. Thanks for the great show mate.
It's quite fascinating to watch a technology that has come so far and is so incredibly refined, yet is certain to not exist in the next century, and possibly sooner.
I love F1 because its truly the absolute pinnacle of Engineering and Technology being harnessed by the handful of human beings capable of being able to control the power these engines produce. F1 drivers are not drivers. They're pilots. I think the skills needed to fly an F22 Raptor are the same skills needed to win in F1.
I was a jet pilot and I'm here to tell you that these F1 drivers are head and shoulders above modern jet pilots, as good as they have to be. Driving a race car like these at race speeds is constant concentration for as long as the race is. Flying a military jet demands total concentration for much shorter periods of time and the actual flying is really pretty easy. Pilots are very busy systems managers, and there is a lot to manage and communicate, but the planes are so automated, it leaves more time for the pilot to focus on the mission (which is good). In any case, the best of the best top drivers in the world are a very select breed. I flew A7Es 2 tours to Vietnam and made about 200 carrier landings, so I have some feel for what goes on.
This is very cool, but may not be so relevant to current F1 pistons - i may be corrected, but I understand they've been using steel pistons for some years, because the aluminium pistons that were strong enough to withstand the forced induction pressures and loads were actually heavier and less reliable than the steel. Basically the same reason high performance/racing diesels use steel pistons.
Remember the lead engineer at Cosworth said the Valkyrie engine 6.5l v12 can run for 60k miles until rebuild while the AMG one can go 30k miles until rebuild NA all day think if F1 kept NA hell in V8 era the cars were realiable as todays smh NA all day i wont change my mind
The NA V8's lasted like maybe 500 miles. And that was because of the 18k rpm regulation that strangled power. They would've been much worse if they were allowed to rev out.
I'm not so sure. The margins are so thin in F1 today, even if they had an engine that reliable, they'd immediately find a way to eke out a few extra tenths at the expense of that reliability.
Moved away from NA due to global idealism, F1 is a large spectacle and if they can perform well with hybrid engines, your daily driver can too! I personally think modern F1 is choked by some of the regulations, unlike its earlier days but that’s just me. I understand why they have made some choices that they have but, I love F1 for the innovation side. We don’t really hear much about that anymore aside from top side aero.
@@codyfrance2537 bro they turbo easily drop the compression ratio and they have more power smh turbos don't even rev to 11k during racing.......it's about the engineering any man can put Force induction n a car but who can get take a plain engine and get most from it????? That the beauty in this sport
When machining, chatter raise aren’t linked to rotational speed raises, it can be, but chatter isn’t linear, so you may as well reduce it by raising speeds, it really depends on your machine’s geometry and how it’s made, your tool holders, your spindle, your axis…
12:27 wrong. Chatter happens when there isn't enough chipload, not that it is running too quickly unless referring to rpm without taking feed rate into account
I'm a machinist for mega large parts, I'm skilled in tolerances of a few microns and eccentric boring. But there are techniques here that are amazing like the oval turning at 3000 RPM. Unbelievable. But all the other tech like Vericad, CMM and DFM are all standards for most CNC machine shops. It's not low tech boring work anymore.
How many hundreds of thousands do Yamaha turn out for worldwide mass market bikes compared to the few dozen made by Cosworth for a handful of F1 teams?
A very good friend of mine did shock valve machining for F1. It is demanding work during testing season with prototypes having to be made in 3 or 4 materials etc. Lots of overnighting to Europe, same day machining and anodizing etc etc. I like seeing the 14 year old ginger working the dyno controls at 19:53 😆
great video guys, love seeing the nitty gritty of some of the most advance production techniques. The series on rolls royce aircraft engines is worth a watch if anyone hasn't seen it. Cosworth seem to be pickup up more and more hyper car customers lately, congrats to the whole team. Even the new Bugatti!
I would have liked to hear more about the valve train, specifically valve springs. They’re right up there with pistons as highly stressed components, especially at the ‘impossible’ engine speeds modern F-1 engines see.
Yes, you're right. The pneumatic valve springs of the old V10 F1 engines used aluminium "discs" carrying a rubber seal, that acted very much like a piston. The air pressures were not trivial either, and those skinny aluminium discs deflected enough to see with the naked eye. They also acted as an upper valve guide - the tolerance to the pnuematic cylinder providing radial location for the top of the valve stem. And the inertia loads were just as high - the valve head movement often followed the piston crown as closely as possible for maximum opening, so they had similar peak accelerations and velocities. Temperatures were not quite as fierce, though, giving some respite.
That’s one thing I’ve never seen explained to my satisfaction is pneumatic valve springs. As an auto technician for 25 years I understand engines pretty well. I still have many questions about how those work. Fascinating!
Thanks for the awesome inside and factual look at the engineering. Can I suggest you fine tune your focusing technique? There's digital assists to make sure the correct thing is in focus - super important in settings like this!
i'm from the US so grew up with "How It's Made" (Canadian show btw). until this video, i was unfamiliar with its Eastern European counterpart, "How Is Made"
@Nismo11 Which is all totally scalable of course. The question is not only the mass, but the _number_ of pistons. A 500cc Twin, in V8 format is a 2000cc engine. Potentially same pistons, very similar stresses, etc. Watching videos about oil development for F1 engines, engine developers (and specifically Cosworth), supply Castrol, Mobil, etc. with V Twin "motorcycle" style test engines for oil trials (and therefore not supply any _secret tech_ to the oil companies).
how is the project of driving upside down in a tunnel going? i havent heard any updates about it (unless i missed it) thats the whole reason i subbed to this channel, something never before done.
Given that downforce to generate 3 to 5 g is easily done, it is trivial to design a car that will stick to the roof of a tunnel once travelling at sufficient speed. It would thus seem as though this "challenge" is thus trivial. However, perhaps the difficult part is transitioning from the right way up on the ground, to climbing the wall and getting onto the roof. I believe the tunnel barrel roll in The Italian Job was camera trickery, and not actually real in any way. Although, with enough momentum, a "loop the loop" using centrifugal forces to keep the vehicle pinned to the inverted surfaces for a moment is technically quite possible. Much like the old "Wall of Death" motorcycle stunts, where centrifugal forces kept the bike pinned to a vertical cylindrical wall.
@@garagecedric thats what i thought as well but the last time i looked they had already invested alot of money into it or so they said. i just wanna know whats going on with it.
Not just cost, but they probably underestimated the logistical nightmare of building and taking down the upside down track structure, also doubt anyone would insure them. I mean it is cost in the end but I bet their estimates were off by a factor of 10 when it started involving a construction project.
Pistons have come a long way since those in my 1954 Ford Popular. I think they were wooden pistons judging by the amount of oil that used to get by them.
That was really interesting. I was surprised how short the pistons are. I've overhauled engines but only my own day to day driver cars, nothing high tech.
You'd be surprised how often engineers send cnc machine shops parts that "can't be manufactured". Generally a good machinist will be able to invent a tool to create whatever feature the engineer wants. I used to take lathe carbide groovers and grind them into a weird L shape, with a relief for face grooving. I used them to pick out and sweep capture grooves. I had like fifty little carbide inserts in different sizes with different angles for different diameters and groove designs.
It's actually more complex than that. One of my senior engineering projects looked at wristpin design. You get into forces not just from acceleration, but from it's own rate of change called "jerk".
Engine lifespan - when BMW conquered the Formula 1 with its turbo engines, the basis of the engine was a standard 4-cylinder BMW engine block, a USED one with at least 80,000 km runtime. That was because then the engine block had went through enough heat cycles to be completely stress-free, so that it would not warp when it came under the extreme thermal stress that a 900 hp-Formula One engine was exposed to.
I hate when you say, "The fuel explodes on top of the piston." The fuel- air mixture should never "explode" as that would be called detonation, which would destroy the engine. The correct term would be "ignite" where the fuel-air mixture burns in a smooth wave front of flame, which expands the air, pushing the piston down the cylinder in the power stroke. Please, stop the "explodes" misnomer!
The chairs those engineers are enjoying look like the one I had in my room in the late 90:s. I had that model because it was by far the cheapest 😂. It didn’t last a full cycle.
When you ask people about the cutting edge of Engineering, I think most would mention Boeing or NASA, but I’d argue that these guys, and Motorsport in general are also on that level. Engineers I worked with in the Oilfield think they’re smart, and they are, but what I did with my degree is nothing compared to this.
I was just going to say "chatter" is a lack of rigidity in either the part, tool, machine or a combination of all 3, not the machine trying to go too fast. But maybe I won't say that. Otherwise I enjoyed your video cheers
ummmm, the "expert" says piston pin deflection occurs when the fuel explodes..........no, fuel does a propogation burn with a smooth flame front....fuel explosions are detonation
F1 needs to relax some of their regulations.. they can do much more with these internal combustion engines with more exotic materials.. better efficiency, lighter weight and longer durability at the same time
I think these rules are voted on by the teams to a degree, and the teams don't want to double the already ridiculous price of their engines to be competitive.
A recently retired Mahle Motorsports employee, I really enjoyed this video. Cosworth is a very capable outfit 🏁
Mahle has my respect too- I've built street bottom ends with their pistons that went for 300K miles
Funny that, Mahle have a building next door to Cosworth and Mugen Honda is or was around the corner.
I always loved that my 740 Volvo used Mahle filters and I think pistons.. we were religious about those filters. One day I’ll build back my resto mod 740 that is nice to travel and eats roads. So much space to make your own subframe,motor mounts and even for a AWD system.
1990 Mahle pistons in the opel C20XE still rev. to 7000rpm
My Kawasaki ninja 250 fi Have 62mm stock piston..I'm going to set 63.5 mm..! Is there any problem will be create or what should i change ??
Having been fortunate enough to do a factory tour at Cosworth, it was amazing to see the steps taken from start to finish. A lot of which are not covered here. These guys are the peak of the industry. The real good stuff cameras are not allowed anywhere near.
Thats almost exactly what i do everyday 😳 (with medical parts).
CAM programming… get that shit working… then getting it accurate… tight tolerances selfcontrol via programmed probe… tool breakage management…. Getting the pallet loader ready… and hope that i dont need to call the service at the next monday morning 😅
(sorry for possible mistakes in my pronunciation... german here 🤷♂️)
(Just read it with an heavy german accent 😂)
Servus ich bin aus Bayern, braucht ihr eventuell meister aus dem bereich mechatronik? 😂
Same here, greetings from Italy 🍻
Yavohl!
Same here. An CMM operator. 20 microns is not that tight to be honest. Our tollerances are 0.005 microns.
@@afrimlargimi16382 it depends heavily on the point of view (from your perspective thats obviously right). But my Customers (and Customers in general) tolerate their parts with a reason. I always say im as accurate as i have to be. As a process optimizer i need to consider a lot of things... making the process as fast as possible (to make a profit out of it) while keeping the customer happy beeing the top concerns.
i also heavily doubt that parts that are milled on a machine with that size (DMU monoblock 65, 75 or even bigger) get down to that tolerances... milling in general as i believe.
but thats very interesting.
with such small tolerances the ambient temperature control has to be a critical factor.
how do you manufacture your parts?
Wire EDM??
Again sorry for eventual grammar errors 😅
THE most successful F1 engine. Cosworth DFV. Twelve times an F1 driver had a DFV at their backs when winning a title. Units progressively developed proved competitive from 1968 until 1982, when the turbocharged engines had finally started to become more reliable and performant.
From what I understood from a cosworth documentary from the 80s, is that Cosworth resisted using a turbo for as long as possible.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 For a road racing engine staying NA makes a lot of sense as the throttle response will normally allow the driver to make better use of traction while cornering. For maximum power of course the turbo engine is going to be able to make more...but lowest lap times are the goal and more power often doesn't translate into lower times.
When the Penske Team first got their 917/30's driver Mark Donahue complained that the throttle response was non-existent which made them very difficult to drive. Porsche engineers scoffed at them saying 'It's a racing engine and we don't worry about part throttle power'. Penske then made their own spool valves for the FI system which would allow good control all through the throttle range and even though they made less maximum power...they allowed Donahue to drive it much faster. On the Porsche test track when the modified spool valves were tested, over the Porsche engineers objections, Donahue cut several seconds from the cars lap record which proved the point that drive-ability means more than absolute maximum power.
Here's one for you, of the two types of performance pistons it's generally accepted that forged, like you see here, is stronger than Hypereutectic.
However when Kawasaki designed and developed that silly fast turbocharged H2R they released about 7 or 8 years ago (if it was longer than that please don't remind me, I don't need to feel any older than I am) they went with Hypereutectic instead of forged pistons.
They found during development of it that forged is indeed stronger than Hypereutectic, until you start getting into the ridiculous combustion chamber temperatures that go along with turbocharging a racing engine, seems that at those temperatures forged pistons start losing their strength wherein Hypereutectic one's dont.
More reliable by using toluene in 1983 LMAO😂
@@dukecraig2402 supercharged*
Good old fashioned UA-cam is back!? Straight to the point video
Erm, try putting up a video on how to prevent people from kidnapping ones kids and see how quickly it gets banned by UA-cam.
I know from experience, as that's exactly what UA-cam did, and they wouldn't listen yo any appeals. Tells you who they are.
Yep. And that is critical
Are we watching the same video? Its alot of talk from Mansel without him saying very much
Last time i remember MMC pistons being used was in the V10 era. Honda used them in 2004 and 2005 seasons.Their aluminium piston in 2003 weighed 251g, then 2004-2005 seasons their MMC pistons weighed between 210g to 226g. A 40 to 25g saving is around a 10% saving!
Banning beryllium was so incredibly stupid. Thanks ferarri...
Except the fia hates innovation
Aluminum MMC is a fascinating material, it’s a shame it’s so dam expensive to use.
Yes. And that is critical
So we are still looking for a better "alloy", but not "too exotic".?
A quick glance at the periodic table tells us we have only Ceramics left, but thats a good thing..
This is half of why I am so drawn to F1, the remarkable engineering
100% agree
Yup. What you did last year wont help you this year in F1.
Definitely. It’s amazing.
The engineering is exciting ,but the actual racing is yawn 🥱
Yeah. I look forward to when they can start upgrading their engines again. Would wish teams had a. It more leeway in the aero though so we could see some more variation
I bought a set of these at Auto Zone for my '72 Pinto Wagon. Huge improvement.
Lol😂😂
Crazy what engineers can do when they have been given simple task of "make the best piston you can"
The 919 evo by Porsche is an example of an entire car built on that logic
all that is needed is a fat wallet
Simple task eh, did you watch the video properly? 😂😂
And just look to GM to see bean counting at its best.
Given the long history of the ICE, as well as Cosworth's experience (and its database), it doesn't seem that "crazy" to me. Been in the product development world for 30 years as an ME, spending most of my time as contract engineering and product development. That diverse environment, where we don't iterate much on what already is, has been really exciting. One project I'm working on a nitro-infused cold coffee machine, then I'm working on flow and structural analysis of wind turbine blades. My advice to engineers who are enticed by constant challenges like that are to find employment with those contract development firms.
Absolute dream job to be building engines for Cosworth... I'm old now at 43, so kids.. don't waste your school days as I did.
It's amazing that they last longer than a minute.
Well crap! I feel ancient at 63! Just kidding, you do whatever you want to at whatever age as I’m doing exactly that at 63. Good luck to you my friend.
At 59 now, I know I would never have qualified for a job at Cosworth, although I could quite happily sweep the workshop floors should they have a vacancy for that position. 😉
Identify and Follow your passion. Money will follow on. Never chase money.
What do you mean by that? You can bet that almost everyone working at Cosworth was a star-level student.
I worked for Porsche factory team during the 919 programme and all of the machines we used for manufacturing were DMG Mori. The capabilities of modern manufacturing is simply mind boggling. I remember having an SS pin for a clevice on the car manufactured, this pin was 43.4mm long and 2.04mm wide with a ball on either end and it within 1 micron.
I recently went to DMG in Bielefeld for a training course.
On the way to the training center there is a huge model of the 919 that was milled from a solid block of aluminum.
its amazing when you think the industrial revelation wasn't that long ago really. Before that we made every nut and bolt to fit together, not any nut on any bolt.
@@dcallan812 Joseph Whitworth 1841.
I miss working on a DMG Mori DMU 50. I got excited that you referenced the same machine that I worked on at my first machining job!
A DMU 50 On your first job is pretty cool 👍
You are one lucky dog! Darn!
I saw the name on the Porsche 919 hybrid and had to Google it 😊😊😊😊
Bee stress reliever at 0:35 shows how intense CAD designing an F1 piston must get!
That’s a critical part
that's crucially needed if you have to work with Siemens software
@@Gizfreek I was happy working in NX until they made us go to Teamcenter
@@Gizfreek siemens makes me want to jump out of my window sometimes
Very interesting. I note that the staff at Cosworth is very young!
The level of precision, and tolerances is mind boggling. Amazeballs!
Fantastic! Thank you. It was also nice seeing all the normal, non-tagged and pierced young people.
I am a CNC machinist. Been doing it a long time, and consider myself pretty good. That machine that can turn ovals at 3000 rpm is absolutely mental. Even a slight oval. That machine must be made out of unobtanuum to stay rigid!
Right? The tooling these guys have access to is incredible! I guess that's what happens when you have F1 money backing you. 😄
It's not that big of a deal really. Eccentric turning make things like this pretty easy actually.
Haha. Any old shitty lathe can turn excentrically, just make sure it ain't level and backlash will do the rest....
Controlling the ovality however , that is another concept entirely.
I'm betting the tour and the talking points were written by marketeers, not engineers. And the person saying the story was told this is what to say if you want to keep your cuhsy job.
really nice to watch this - brought back memories of my days starting as a graduate engineer with Cosworth in 1999. 5 amazing years @Cosworth
This was fascinating! Seriously, by the title and past videos on other channels I thought that this would be a factory tour kind of thing. I could watch machine tools and their operators all day.
Not sure about the comments below, that Aluminium and Beryllium mix well, as an alloy. Our company did some of this for Space applications, and there was a problem with the thermal expansion rates of the various crystallites, within the matrix. As a result, after very heavy thermal cycling, there became zipper faults, and delaminations within the materials, which could not be repaired during the repressurization cycles. As such, these materials will have a defined cycling life, at or over their thermal cycling regimen. Beryllium moves very little, Aluminium moves a lot, and does not recover if strained to crushing (especially in oxygen atmosphere). Inside the piston, that may not be a problem, but just the atomic bonding dimensions seem to be against this. Somebody probably compared the atomic weights, and decided that an alloy would be lighter. Why NOT make Aluminium and Lithium pistons, like they do for airframes and spacecrafts. I'd like to see some F1 cars using AL/LI pistons as a test. Would they melt into failure after 10-miles, or not. Active cooling could be used.
This is why the JWST primary mirror is beryllium with gold coating. But expensive and extremely toxic
there is some use of allite super magnesium in F1 engines and transmissions
@@asicdathensmore expensive than my ex-wife. more toxic than my mother-in-law
1) Active cooling is of course used in F1 engines, it is called an 'oil gallery'. It sprays the pistons with oil from below. Also common in high power cars.
2) As far as I remember, AlLi has limited hot strength, thus the nr. 1 alloy is still AA2618 or derived from it (average piston crown temp can be >250 or 300°C, derived from softening curves). And also, the price is of concern, believe it or not. Today, there is a tendency to go back to steels and use a design more like the pistons shown here. The pressures are getting ever higher year by year. An Al piston must be very tall in a turbo engine.
3) The piston weight is not the most important parameter. The piston pin is WAY more important, it is the single most important part, because as a connecting element, it affects both piston and conrod. And as long these are made of steels....
4) It has become of lesser interest to reduce piston weight, because modern F1 engines don't rev very high anyway (forces are ~ m.r.omega²).
5) Al and Be, of course mix very well indeed. Just look at a phase diagram, not a single ordered phase in it! Perhaps you had some foreign element?
6) In fact, the pistons Mika Hakkinen won his two titles with were made from Albemet. A birdie told me they had Be detectors at the factory, and any dry process was strictly prohibited. Ferrari thus protested and since then Be is banned above a certain w%. But it is still used as alloying element. Where? I wont tell. 🙂And also you probably wear a belt buckle containing Be.
@@emefff Good Info. Thanks
I worked for an aerospace company that built the turbine blades for jet engines. I ran a CMM machine and the tolerances at machining division were sometimes +/- 0.0015 of inch. We worked with single crystal castings that the entire blade was one crystal top to bottom. The machining cos worth is doing is similar to aerospace jet engines. What an interesting place to work! Great video, brings back some good memories and I learned a thing or two about F1.
I think you meant .00015 inch.
I’ve worked in both F1 as engineering, (using Siemens NX and Solidworks) and programming mazak twin turret cnc lathes, and also for Martin Baker making parts for the Ejection seats used in airforce jets, and the manufacture processes are almost identical.
What some may not realise is, in F1 there is a ZERO acceptance for any tolerance deviation, whereas in Ejector seats, there’s a lot more scope! The other side of the story is, F1 teams are happy to pay ridiculous amounts of money for the most simplest things, yet military contracts want to save money on everything!!
Most military items are much larger and more mass produced, even the typhoon may reach 750. Where as f1 only need a handful of engines/chassis of each design. Also there is less risk of tolerance where human flight is involved. But if you see the production process of the latest military jet engines you will see some things even f1 doesn't get involved with. There are many technologies that have filtered down from military/aircraft world into f1 such as carbon composites.
Engine sounds from the dyno tests would have been great…
The level of precision, engineering and technology involved in F1 still amazes me. It’s on another planet and right up there with aerospace engineering. The fact just one piston costs £50k is astounding and no doubt is one reason why just a F1 power unit costs more than an entire car in other motorsports like Indycar or a Le Mans Hypercar.
Not to forget the small production volume and strict quality control that would be uneconomical at mass production level.
No wonder, f1 is revered as the pinnacle of automotive engineering. Great stuff!
One part that was not covered that i feel is remarkable is the pistons only have 2 ring stacks compared to a traditional 3 ring stack, very cool right up thank you,
My old moped tuning kit had 2 piston rings... I swear the commenters (and presenter) are making this out to be much more complicated than it really is - as if some F1 circlejerk is taking place.
Wow I didn't realize it took this much work and technology for Pistons. Can't imagine the work that goes into the engine block crank cams. Awsome video
This whole video just makes me miss my machine shop days. Tolerances of 0.01mm were routine. I miss it.
The two phrases where one: close enough for government work. And two: I can't see it from my house.
@@phukfone8428 1 more phrase...."It ain't going to Indy."
Brilliant, very interesting thank you and Cosworth. Before just increasing ones turbo boost or oversize injectors people need to watch this to understand why an engine designed for say 250bhp will blow when producing 400bhp without being redesigned and using all correct components. Thank you again. Not only the engine design but those engineering machines are amazing. Shame I’m in my 70s, after this I would like to be an apprentice again!
It's never too late!!!
Except the 2JZ and the Coyote, you can double the HP reliably and still will have some left on the table for when you really need it.
@@UrsulavonBIt literally is when you’re old.
I worked at Cosworth back in the early 90's. Was an interesting job.
Coming from machining myself, it really seems like it only cost £50,000 per unit because they just sort of can charge that much. Nothing so far has been super exotic.
cost is estimated by how much waste product comes out and energy "hours and people" to put in to one final product, i bet there are millions are wasted in R&D. same in bikes for example . one in 100$ one is 5-6k same fucking product same shape and function
also we forget there are 2 kind of engineers. one wich allows himself +- 1-2% error margin, and one with 0.05 to 0.1% acceptable error, if not, just redo until its perfect. michelin star chefs are as good as normal chefs and vice versa . the precision makes the price tag and difference
This has become an educational video that should be watched by all engineering colleagues undergoing orientation in all automotive companies. Thank you!
Wow, this video is so interesting! I can't believe how sophisticated the process of making pistons for Formula 1 cars is. The advanced technology and attention to detail is really impressive. Thanks for sharing the fascinating pictures and information from the factory. I learned a lot of new things about this industry.
Cosworth does not have an F1 Engine Program and is mainly involved in the IndyCar Series.
The vast majority of F1 Engine manufacturers use Mahle Pistons from Germany.
Even the Ferrari Team uses Mahle.
Mahle have a building next door to Cosworth's in Northampton so I would put money they are made here.
Also; they made V8s and had a V6 prototype
@@Lazerus2008 GM uses Mahle in several motors here in USA..... EXCELLENT !!
Mercury marine racing division 2.5 litre 2 cycle v 6's racing motors use mahle pistons I own one and will rev 10000+ rpm and every stroke is a power stroke
That was certainly an eye opener. I've rebuilt quite a number of engines in my life but that's the first time I've seen an impressive parts production video especially by a huge manufacturer like Cosworth. Thanks for the great show mate.
I see clearly why even someone with your experience called this day one of the most interesting experiences of your life. WOW!!
It's quite fascinating to watch a technology that has come so far and is so incredibly refined, yet is certain to not exist in the next century, and possibly sooner.
All Engineering students should watch this video.
Its a nice little introduction to quite a number of topics
コスワースTJ2006エンジンピストン、
ヤマハOXエンジンピストン、
無限ホンダエンジンピストン、
ハートV8エンジンピストン
マーレのコンロッド付きで持ってます。
ルノーRS9のエンジンヘッドもあります。
absolutely fascinating stuff! Precision precision and more precision on every little detail just to built 1 piston! Really incredible!
I love F1 because its truly the absolute pinnacle of Engineering and Technology being harnessed by the handful of human beings capable of being able to control the power these engines produce. F1 drivers are not drivers. They're pilots. I think the skills needed to fly an F22 Raptor are the same skills needed to win in F1.
I was a jet pilot and I'm here to tell you that these F1 drivers are head and shoulders above modern jet pilots, as good as they have to be. Driving a race car like these at race speeds is constant concentration for as long as the race is. Flying a military jet demands total concentration for much shorter periods of time and the actual flying is really pretty easy. Pilots are very busy systems managers, and there is a lot to manage and communicate, but the planes are so automated, it leaves more time for the pilot to focus on the mission (which is good). In any case, the best of the best top drivers in the world are a very select breed. I flew A7Es 2 tours to Vietnam and made about 200 carrier landings, so I have some feel for what goes on.
driver you have just made me thro my tv in the bin , this stuff is great brain food thanks
This is very cool, but may not be so relevant to current F1 pistons - i may be corrected, but I understand they've been using steel pistons for some years, because the aluminium pistons that were strong enough to withstand the forced induction pressures and loads were actually heavier and less reliable than the steel. Basically the same reason high performance/racing diesels use steel pistons.
Amazing.. The level of care and detail @ Cosworth is more involved than NASA !!
Thank you and good to see NX and Vericut in action. Did a lot with them both some years ago and enjoyed the job immensely. Cheers
Remember the lead engineer at Cosworth said the Valkyrie engine 6.5l v12 can run for 60k miles until rebuild while the AMG one can go 30k miles until rebuild NA all day think if F1 kept NA hell in V8 era the cars were realiable as todays smh NA all day i wont change my mind
Sure buy your going to sacrifice a lot of hp/L and eficiency
The NA V8's lasted like maybe 500 miles. And that was because of the 18k rpm regulation that strangled power. They would've been much worse if they were allowed to rev out.
I'm not so sure. The margins are so thin in F1 today, even if they had an engine that reliable, they'd immediately find a way to eke out a few extra tenths at the expense of that reliability.
Moved away from NA due to global idealism, F1 is a large spectacle and if they can perform well with hybrid engines, your daily driver can too!
I personally think modern F1 is choked by some of the regulations, unlike its earlier days but that’s just me. I understand why they have made some choices that they have but, I love F1 for the innovation side. We don’t really hear much about that anymore aside from top side aero.
@@codyfrance2537 bro they turbo easily drop the compression ratio and they have more power smh turbos don't even rev to 11k during racing.......it's about the engineering any man can put Force induction n a car but who can get take a plain engine and get most from it????? That the beauty in this sport
It's Saturday evening and I'm watching a piston video.
When machining, chatter raise aren’t linked to rotational speed raises, it can be, but chatter isn’t linear, so you may as well reduce it by raising speeds, it really depends on your machine’s geometry and how it’s made, your tool holders, your spindle, your axis…
12:27 wrong. Chatter happens when there isn't enough chipload, not that it is running too quickly unless referring to rpm without taking feed rate into account
You make a good point ; that statement on the Video , did not match my experience.
I'm a machinist for mega large parts, I'm skilled in tolerances of a few microns and eccentric boring. But there are techniques here that are amazing like the oval turning at 3000 RPM. Unbelievable. But all the other tech like Vericad, CMM and DFM are all standards for most CNC machine shops. It's not low tech boring work anymore.
Correction: The longer the stroke, the slower the crankshaft revolutions must be. For the shorter stroke, the opposite applies.
Yarp.
Or conversely the longer the stroke the faster the piston speed and acceleration
Amazing how Yamaha can do a set of pistons that'll rev to 17500 for £500
How many hundreds of thousands do Yamaha turn out for worldwide mass market bikes compared to the few dozen made by Cosworth for a handful of F1 teams?
Can those pistons do 2-3k miles of CONTINUOUS reliable operation at the top of the rpm range while delivering 800+ hp?
It looks much like my Yamaha Fazer 250 LE, 2008, piston, I use in Brazil 😅
Cool factory. Congratulations to the Cosworth team.
A very good friend of mine did shock valve machining for F1. It is demanding work during testing season with prototypes having to be made in 3 or 4 materials etc. Lots of overnighting to Europe, same day machining and anodizing etc etc. I like seeing the 14 year old ginger working the dyno controls at 19:53 😆
Well done! Thank you for this. You answered several questions that I’ve long been wondering about. Great Job
great video guys, love seeing the nitty gritty of some of the most advance production techniques. The series on rolls royce aircraft engines is worth a watch if anyone hasn't seen it. Cosworth seem to be pickup up more and more hyper car customers lately, congrats to the whole team. Even the new Bugatti!
Nigel Mansells son?
Good job on presenting, very informative and kept me interested right to the end
The tolerances are crazy when at room temperature that a f1 won't start iys too tight. They all get pre heated
Great video and very informative.
I would have liked to hear more about the valve train, specifically valve springs. They’re right up there with pistons as highly stressed components, especially at the ‘impossible’ engine speeds modern F-1 engines see.
Yes, you're right. The pneumatic valve springs of the old V10 F1 engines used aluminium "discs" carrying a rubber seal, that acted very much like a piston. The air pressures were not trivial either, and those skinny aluminium discs deflected enough to see with the naked eye. They also acted as an upper valve guide - the tolerance to the pnuematic cylinder providing radial location for the top of the valve stem. And the inertia loads were just as high - the valve head movement often followed the piston crown as closely as possible for maximum opening, so they had similar peak accelerations and velocities. Temperatures were not quite as fierce, though, giving some respite.
That’s one thing I’ve never seen explained to my satisfaction is pneumatic valve springs. As an auto technician for 25 years I understand engines pretty well. I still have many questions about how those work. Fascinating!
The Race F1 tech show explained them well. Great insight into pros and cons @scottsmith4315
Excellent report! Greetings from Buenos Aires.
Thanks for the awesome inside and factual look at the engineering. Can I suggest you fine tune your focusing technique? There's digital assists to make sure the correct thing is in focus - super important in settings like this!
I like how Monza is being used as a yardstick for engine durability.
An excellent episode 🎉🎉🎉. Do you cover MotoGP engine?
Thanks for sharing this with us
You did an excellent job explaining this topic; I learned many new things!
i'm from the US so grew up with "How It's Made" (Canadian show btw). until this video, i was unfamiliar with its Eastern European counterpart, "How Is Made"
Ahh glad this video is back up! Any insight why it was taken down for a few days?
This a perfect example of why low volume items may not be done CNC. It may be faster to just do it manually.
Thank you for the video.. It's impressive how tiny this F1 pistons are. I thought our McLaren pistons are small but this is top notch engineering 👍
I definitely NEED these pistons in my daily driver
Mee too👍
I need some for my V12 supercar build 😆
You can have whatever you like, if you got the money.
You can't buy my love though😂😂😂@@bomberaustychunksbruv4119
"what does it take to design a piston to rev to 20,000 rpm?" I dunno... lets ask Honda motorbikes in the 80's!
Yamaha from 07-14
In this case, very tiny pistons and low reciprocating mass! 😋
@Nismo11 Which is all totally scalable of course. The question is not only the mass, but the _number_ of pistons. A 500cc Twin, in V8 format is a 2000cc engine. Potentially same pistons, very similar stresses, etc. Watching videos about oil development for F1 engines, engine developers (and specifically Cosworth), supply Castrol, Mobil, etc. with V Twin "motorcycle" style test engines for oil trials (and therefore not supply any _secret tech_ to the oil companies).
It's a small engine, really small engines have gone a lot faster
Pneumatic valve spring!
Fuel and air does not explode, it burns. Two different combustion processes.
And the highest load on the pin isn't from combustion, it's from the transition at TDC from exhaust intake stroke.
Thanks for the great explanation. I have been a machinist for many years and you explain things very well.
When your tool to make your stuff is orders of magnitude more complex than what its making
Brilliant and informative video, thank you
3:18 called W H A T?
Siemens NX
🤣🤣🤣
Semen and ex
that whole piston is work of art, no sharp edges at all
A very enlightening video of the motor sport piston design and manufacturing process. Brillent and well worth watching.
T6 isn't quenched
how is the project of driving upside down in a tunnel going? i havent heard any updates about it (unless i missed it) thats the whole reason i subbed to this channel, something never before done.
Clickbait for you to follow this channel for as long as possible😂
I dont think it will ever happen, just to much money needed
Given that downforce to generate 3 to 5 g is easily done, it is trivial to design a car that will stick to the roof of a tunnel once travelling at sufficient speed.
It would thus seem as though this "challenge" is thus trivial.
However, perhaps the difficult part is transitioning from the right way up on the ground, to climbing the wall and getting onto the roof.
I believe the tunnel barrel roll in The Italian Job was camera trickery, and not actually real in any way. Although, with enough momentum, a "loop the loop" using centrifugal forces to keep the vehicle pinned to the inverted surfaces for a moment is technically quite possible. Much like the old "Wall of Death" motorcycle stunts, where centrifugal forces kept the bike pinned to a vertical cylindrical wall.
@@garagecedric thats what i thought as well but the last time i looked they had already invested alot of money into it or so they said. i just wanna know whats going on with it.
Not just cost, but they probably underestimated the logistical nightmare of building and taking down the upside down track structure, also doubt anyone would insure them. I mean it is cost in the end but I bet their estimates were off by a factor of 10 when it started involving a construction project.
Geez all them gears on the front of that Gordon Murray V12 is insane.
Think they eliminate the requirement for timing chain or cam belt changes.
Pistons have come a long way since those in my 1954 Ford Popular. I think they were wooden pistons judging by the amount of oil that used to get by them.
That was really interesting. I was surprised how short the pistons are. I've overhauled engines but only my own day to day driver cars, nothing high tech.
This is like a behind-the-scenes training video of a pro athlete, except its for the car. Really pushing the limits for performance
Love this stuff. Worked in Federal Mogul. Tech 3D line operator. Bradford Pin R.I.P
You'd be surprised how often engineers send cnc machine shops parts that "can't be manufactured".
Generally a good machinist will be able to invent a tool to create whatever feature the engineer wants.
I used to take lathe carbide groovers and grind them into a weird L shape, with a relief for face grooving. I used them to pick out and sweep capture grooves.
I had like fifty little carbide inserts in different sizes with different angles for different diameters and groove designs.
It’s blown my mind how short the stroke is and how compact the block is 😮
I recall forces on reciprocating parts increase exponentially being squared when rpm doubles?
Correct
@@BrokeWrench red line on tack is there for a reason..
It's actually more complex than that. One of my senior engineering projects looked at wristpin design. You get into forces not just from acceleration, but from it's own rate of change called "jerk".
Engine lifespan - when BMW conquered the Formula 1 with its turbo engines, the basis of the engine was a standard 4-cylinder BMW engine block, a USED one with at least 80,000 km runtime.
That was because then the engine block had went through enough heat cycles to be completely stress-free,
so that it would not warp when it came under the extreme thermal stress that a 900 hp-Formula One engine was exposed to.
I hate when you say, "The fuel explodes on top of the piston." The fuel- air mixture should never "explode" as that would be called detonation, which would destroy the engine. The correct term would be "ignite" where the fuel-air mixture burns in a smooth wave front of flame, which expands the air, pushing the piston down the cylinder in the power stroke. Please, stop the "explodes" misnomer!
I been wondering why that always sounded weird. But stop thinking about it right away so I can watch the video. But I definitely agree
The chairs those engineers are enjoying look like the one I had in my room in the late 90:s. I had that model because it was by far the cheapest 😂. It didn’t last a full cycle.
Brilliant video, thx 😊 from a race retired engineer.
When you ask people about the cutting edge of Engineering, I think most would mention Boeing or NASA, but I’d argue that these guys, and Motorsport in general are also on that level. Engineers I worked with in the Oilfield think they’re smart, and they are, but what I did with my degree is nothing compared to this.
You just have to love Cosworth
I was just going to say "chatter" is a lack of rigidity in either the part, tool, machine or a combination of all 3, not the machine trying to go too fast.
But maybe I won't say that.
Otherwise I enjoyed your video cheers
Good report , but couldn't you squeeze in just a tiny audible dyno run for gearheads sake. 😐
DLC, i was expecting to hear about WPC aswell. The amount of r&d is crazy.
Interesting topic. I'd like to see Destin visiting actual F1 piston factory.
ummmm, the "expert" says piston pin deflection occurs when the fuel explodes..........no, fuel does a propogation burn with a smooth flame front....fuel explosions are detonation
close enough, welcome back captin sparkles
F1 needs to relax some of their regulations.. they can do much more with these internal combustion engines with more exotic materials.. better efficiency, lighter weight and longer durability at the same time
I think these rules are voted on by the teams to a degree, and the teams don't want to double the already ridiculous price of their engines to be competitive.
that's already happened. mandated aluminium pistons aren't a thing. they were back in 2013 when Cosworth made F1 engines, but not today.
Id just abolish F1 and setup a new company