Destiny Lore - SIVA, Technological Plague Theories (Extra Lore)
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- In this episode of Extra Lore I discuss my thoughts and theories on SIVA, the technological plague, which will be the main antagonist in Destiny's new Rise of Iron Expansion!
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Destiny's universe is vast in terms of Lore. The SIVA, a new threat in the story of the Rise of Iron DLC is proof of this. In this video i disucss what SIVA is, where it originates from, what its relation might be to the warminds and some other interesting theories about why it's such a threat. I'll touch on AI rampancy and the technological singularity, which SIVA potentially presents. I'll also touch on the possibility that SIVA has been corrupted by the Darkness itself!
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Byf on day 4 I found a ghost shell located where the wall is supposed to fall in rise of iron. The ghost was from the exo stranger. It talked of how the wall fell, and how the machines marched upon Russia. I thought it meant the vex, but it could quite easily mean the slicers
do you remember the exact name of the card?
+My name is Byf hey byf what's that heavy weapon your using
Sleeper Simulant
+ERZA “Supersariomon” Scarlet sleeper stimulant
where did you find this card.
Byf in the Book of Sorrow wasn't it talked about how there was a Vex mind who fought Oryx's forces and learned the sword logic.
I found the verse; XXXIX open your eye: go into it.
Hey Byf, I know that you've been doing everything you can to dig up as much information about the Rise of Iron as possible. But I'm curious as too when the next update on the Book of Sorrows is going to be released. I mean I know that its not entirely on you as you need the artists to have enough free time available to do their fantastic work but I'm sure many of us would like to at least see that series done before Rise of Iron drops as then by that point doing the Book of Sorrows is going to be kinda pointless as everyone will be wanting to know about the Lords of Iron and SIVA. But hey if that's not possible no hard feelings, we all still love your work and simply can't wait for more.
honestly, a Destiny movie or Original series would be fantastic.
no way they could fit all the lore and story into a movie
+Gabriel Macaluso would probably have to be a series, 30 minutes per episode, each featuring 1 part/story from Destiny's vast amount of lore
More like a Lore Series instead of a "gameplay" one,
like the wars of the reef or the conflicts with the fallen Houses
Thanks for a SIVA speculation lore video. really enjoyed it
I would love to see a SIVA infuse Sleeper Simulant skin in Rise Of Iron
And Pocket Infinity don't forget!
Hopefully we get a Year 2 version of it #BringBackPocketInfinity
+Snork121 Year 3
Yoooo
yeaaaaaaaah but you're not as cool anymore... sorry mate, back in the vault for now
Watching this makes me even more hyped for Rise of Iron and finding out what SIVA is. I really hope its a new Warmind completely and like Rasputin finally decides to help us or something. Regardless, great video as always Byf :)
I remember when you were at 80k and a much smaller channel, using old images for lore videos. It's incredible to see how much you've grown with new animations and graphics. Keep growing Byf, I'll be here all the time.
-FilmClip
p.s. The 100k video also made me feel the feelz man, whyd u do dat ;-;
i just realized after the first two minutes I was just watching the gameplay. currently rewatching
love the additional lore! thus far I'd say need more articuls
in the graphic form ( more pictures ). but other wise your story has me me asking for more.
Siva is probably a war-mind. If we look at the etymology of the name Siva we know "it's Hindu myth name meaning "auspicious." A member of the Trimurti, the other members being Brahma and Vishnu. SIVA. In Hindu mythology a form of the abstract Deity Brahma as the DESTROYER AND REPRODUCER OF LIFE. He forms the third in the great Hindu triad, and his representations are horribly obscene. (An Archaic Dictionary, Cooper, 1876). Like the other deities, he is represented as the Supreme God, though having over a thousand names, such as "The Lord of the Universe," "The Destroyer," "The Reproducer," "The Conqueror of Life and Death," etc., etc. His especial worshipers are called Saivas, who exalt him to the highest place in the heavens; he is represented as Time, Justice, Fire, Water, The Sun, as also the Creator and the Destroyer... (Hindu Literature, or, The Ancient Books of India, Reed, 1891)."
So knowing where the name comes from we can look at the likenesses between the mythology and the game. The first thing, and possibly the easiest thing to compare are the names of Siva and how they relate to things we know about Rise of Iron.
We can assume that Siva is a War-mind because the Hindu version is a "Supreme God" this sort of gives us hints to what it is, its likely we can follow this line of logic because of the other similarities and names, "The Destroyer," "The Reproducer," "The Conqueror of Life and Death," This is what the plague is doing, it is taking life, like Old Russia and the Fallen House of Devils and recreating it in its own likeness, in its own image. To, as Oryx and the Vex would say cut away and destroy then recreate it in the perfect shape of the universe. This also goes back to the suggestion that Siva has been tainted by the darkness, the idea of "Solve et coagula" is very darkness. Look at the taken, species that have been broken down and then built back up into a perfect form, now look at the House of Devils, Fallen who have been mutilated and broken down (notice the legs and limbs on many fallen seem to be missing and replaced with tec) but now with the help of Siva for the first time since days of lore the Fallen are a threat.
Some more interesting information about the Hindu Siva lays in the description of the God. "His throat is dark blue, and his hair light RED, thickly matted together on the top of his head. He is well supplied with hands, the number varying with different authorities from four to eight or ten. He had five faces, in one of which is a third eye situated in the center of the forehead, and pointing up and down. These three eyes are said to denote his view of the three divisions of time-- past, present, and future. He holds a trident in his hand, to denote tat the three great attributes of Creator, Destroyer, and Regenerator are combined in him." (Hindu Literature, or, The Ancient Books of India, Reed, 1891)."
Just looking at the attributed of this God we see a very Destiny character, and much like Rasputin the War-mind it shares striking similarities with its real world name sake. Rasputin is a betrayer, hard to kill, and survivor. Siva will probably have a god complex, but then again what is in a name?
Siva=Shiva ... its an hindu god . look it up i dont think of a warmind as a new boss for a raid . its going to be diffrent ..
Who here also thinks that after hearing this EXTRA LORE that SIVA is the destiny's version of ULTRON? The possibility of it being able to think, act, feel, etc. for itself....astoundingly frightening.....Truly hyped for this expansion! #RiseofIron
Destiny: Ultron's Revolution .
I think that Siva might have something to do with the Exo Stranger, because of the card Rasputin 4. It talks about Rasputin wanting the Stranger to "teach him how to step" in time? Maybe he learned how to time travel, perhaps resulting in part of him being corrupted? And remember, if something happens now, and it can time travel, it could go back to before it was created.
from playing the new raid that came out today (still need to kill final boss), I've come to understand a little bit about SIVA, and the Splicers, and my conclusion is... SIVA is quite possibly the scariest form of the Darkness we guardians have to face. the Splicers are meddling with forces beyond their control, and if we allow them to keep delving deeper into the demon that is SIVA, it could literally be the end. the Splicers are basically playing God, and SIVA is that God... and it will strike down the Splicers when they reach too far.
SIVA is based around the Hindu god SHIVA, it was created when two gods split apart , (light and darkness in destiny) from this a corrupt war mind was created, the darkness consumed a warsat and gained consciousness? Furthermore, the fallen are four armed monsters, likes the deities in Hindu mythology, they were once noble, but turned corrupt and hateful ( like deities the fallen were once good, after Oryx's attack on their race, they turned evil) hope this clears things up or adds to anything
Can't wait for all the high quality rise of iron rips from our friend Sivagunner
I believe that SIVA might be a prototype weapon created in the Golden Age but was sealed away, and it was the Iron Lords who unveiled it which explains why they saw it as their responsibility to stop it but they could not kill it as it is not a construct of darkness but instead was of light to which guardians who use light would have trouble facing.
Love these vids and some very interesting points you brought up have made me thinking
Byf, these videos are great! I totally forgot of the Seven Seraphs until this video. Do you think you could do a short video explaining what we know about them?
Byf I'm not sure about this theory, but I think that the gardener might be the heart of the black garden, and the black fire that burnt the flowers was actually oryx's taking ability or possibly a self aware SIVA that is already entering the singularity state.
my personal theory is that the Siva plague has ties to the ahamkara genetics collected in Ishtar. which could explain why it's corrupted. the fallen have turned themselves into both machine and creature, so I assume that the plague could be both biological and mechanical. it really just depends on whether the fallen are using Siva or Siva has corrupted the fallen.
I like my friends theory that Oryx isn't truly dead. This could support Oryx' want to become one with death and if/when he returns he will be a force to be reckoned with!
@My name is Byf. Is it possible that Rasputin can converse with Warminds from different timelines? It would explain the reference to the Exo Stranger being present and the idea of 'cousins', being similar and having a common ancestry/start point whilst being different and in turn unique.
I have a theory. what if the warminds are actuall more advanced versions of siva, ones build with a fail safe so as not to run ramped like siva. for instance if they just have a primary objective, like how Rasputin must defend earth and itself, you can make it into their hard and soft ware that if they disobey this, poof. and the guardians and the traveler also seek to keep earth intact so he doesn't assault them. Siva may have been going out of control before the calaps and the warminds are in place to slow then down but could not stop it. Rasputin and diva could be in an itelagance arms race. trying to stop or overcome eachothers obstacles. would explain why Rasputin never targeted the dreadnaught when it came, he was too busy fighting siva, but late siva decides to take to the surface, corrupt and mayhaps self splice with other lifeforms or create its own machine army. that could be why the iron lords fell. after all Siva was captured before the fallen found it... so how did it kill 8 of the best guardians out there.
Bungie said Siva is just a tool, it needs a weilder. I highly doubt Siva itself will be the antagonist. My theory is that something or someone is controlling Siva, the chilling part is that Bungie never said that Siva is controlled by the fallen, directly. Another thing to note is the missing memory of Efrideit, denoting that she isn't dead. But Saladin is the last iron lord. What if she got locked in the vault, what if she got fused with Siva, corrupted. Just theorizing here, wouldn't be the first time a guardian went dark side. Food for thought.
One word: Exos.
Also a Vex mind already started using "Sword Logic" acoring to the Book of Sorrows. It's dead, but it happened.
I personally would love an exo warlock who allowed himself to synthesis with Siva. have a warlock example of forces of darkness bonding with it like Eris
SIVA Might be a prototype Warmind as well
I find it so interesting when people go down these paths on the singularity and propose ideas like "what if they turn on us" "we must control them and give them morals to live by". You see a singularity event or the creation of a consciousness means that that thing that was created no longer abides by rules we set out. They are free to choose as they wish, they also are free to come up with their own morals and grow beyond the creator. And this is not a bad thing. Its probably the reason humanity may never create a singularity tbh, we just cant let go and your video is a prime example why. You think humans are unique and have everything fingured out morally wise.. think again. We just have a view of the universe, it is neither right nor wrong its just a view that we have. If another view has it that they need to destroy us for their view to be valid, that view is niether right nor wrong.. and the funny thing is you cant argue that they are wrong for them wanting to destroy us, in fact they are right...why...because you just proposed that it was ok for us to destroy another consciousness and remove it from history and made that view of the universe right. What makes our view more valid than another, nothing, only our righteousness. Once we realize that the universe becomes allot more reasonable because we don't worry about being right or wrong or looking good to others and start living in harmony. Its all a very interesting notion you propose I just found it amusing that you wished to control another consciousness because it might be "dangerous" to us...history repeating itself in video game form.And no this isn't a dig at you, I mean no disrespect or anything. We are all fallible, that's what humans are best at. It neither right nor wrong I just find it interesting how quickly views go to that old story of controlling others and somehow we justify it in our minds even though it fails time and time again. Keep up the lore videos, fascinating series.
Rise of Iron is bringing me back to Destiny after a long break, I hope it's good! Plus I'll finally get to try out Jade Rabbit and Zen Meteor :p
I really hope they have a cinematic scene showing the iron lord fight the SIVA
I've seen theories out there that Cayde is himself a Warmind, and he just doesn't remember it due to having memory wiped (the number next to every exo's name is the amount of times they've had a memory wipe). It'd make kind of sense for Warminds creating Exos.
Except Cayde was a human before he was an Exo.
+SockDog Where's that stated at? Not being skeptical, just trying to figure out the cluster fuck that is Destiny-lore
PlayerStyx - GamerRage its stated in Cayde's Treasure Island Book from the Taken King collectors edition.
Wile Byf was talking about SIVA an how dangerous it can actually become for the city I literally forgot that it's about a game and thought we have a real live threat right here
Well then I got my mind back and realised that the taken were shown as the ultimate threat and now they just are just as week as any other sort in the destiny universe and we'll of course take out SIVA at some point.
btw have you seen the Suros rifle in the reveal stream? It was SIVA upgraded like the scout in the trailer which tells us that the gun faction actually use the plague to create new weapons. Which is indeed cool for the fact that SIVA is supposed to be dangerous (Guardians always liked to have weapons and armour made of their enemies right?)
Taken SIVA. Think about how crazy that shit would be. XD
godrealm017 Hell no! The Taken are already annoying as is ( mainly the psions )
I'd like to state that Durendal is known as one of the four great swords of legend, along with Excalibur and it's brothers. It is the sword of Earth. Which holds true to the mythos of SIVA.
Those other swords being Clarent and Joyuese, swords of air and fire, exaclibur being Ice. I hope this helps Byf.
byf you said that rasputin can connect with any pice of golden age tech. that could mean golden age suits of armor that can connect to rasputin and any other remaining warminds allowing them to send live satellite transmissions to us like enemy position and signals.
Have we considered that we may have misinterpreted Rasputins logs? What if "IT" was not really referring to the darkness at all, but to SIVA?
this would change our understanding of Rasputins actions in the Grimoire - His brothers and sisters (the other Warminds) fell to SIVA, he cut himself off so that he may survive.
What if that was literal, like cutting off an arm so you dont die in a trap?
He cuts off and goes silent until we turn up and activate the Array. Now SIVA is resurfacing, maybe sensing a familiar source of power?
At the time Rasputin cuts off, the traveller has not fallen, but Rasputin cannot forsee a victory scenario where the traveller can beat SIVA, so gets out alive, assuming all other lives are forfeit. The Iron Lords only just succeed in their attempts to seal SIVA away, which might have been the impossibility that Rasputin dismisses.
Also, I wasnt sure about the references to Technomachy, and whether that would imply closer semblance to Hive/Taken or this new SIVA threat
There's another possibility: this other warmind (I believe that's what it is) isn't corrupted and doesn't wish humanity any harm, but is just trying to uphold it's original mission and ensure our survival. It witnessed the Collapse after Rasputin abandoned Earth's defense, and perhaps independently came to the same conclusion as the Hive: that the universe is a ruthless, deadly place, and the only way to survive the Darkness is to embrace power and strength at any cost.
So it took the SIVA technology and changed it into something that could bond with and augment an organic host, and it now seeks to spread these nanites to the remaining humans on Earth, to make them strong enough to withstand the forces that threaten them. In its machine logic, this is the best thing for us, and it will use the Fallen to force this change upon us if necessary, as Auryx forced evolution upon his people on Fundament. Anyone who stands in its way, whether it's Rasputin, or the Guardians, is in its eyes an enemy of humanity whose ignorant resistance will seal our doom.
I think its a second warmind on earth (you know for extra security) but is a corrupted warmind (not corrupted by the darkness or anything like that) but just corrupted or maybe a warmind fearing the darkness (knowing that the darkness wiped out the other warminds) is trying to destroy the light out of self preservation (to make the darkness leave) thats my theory.
Just donated to the patreon yesterday! :D
I think the series that best explored rampant, particularly from an A.I.'s point of view, is Red vs Blue
So, with this new update, the discovery that has been made in rasputin's bunker during the saber strike, there is no doubt in my mind that Rasputin has something to do with Siva.
ahh the marathon games. i should replay em for the up-tenth time.
well you can say the same thing about rasputin. the warmind got so intelligent it damaged the traveler to keep it with us to make sure our survival can stay at hand.
It’s wild rewatching these old lore videos. Warmind lore from before d2 was pretty cool but so wrong.
I would just like to congratulate everyone who says they were first, second, third and fourth
First
Second
Third
Fourth
AsakraZz congratz
SIVA could be a civilian A.I. that is still trying to perform it's original directive of rebuilding and maintaining the Golden Age and using the Fallen as disposable foot soldiers/workers. Rasputin calling SIVA his cousin would make sense as he is a warning not a civilianmind.
you make a game sound so deep and juicy i love it
when the war mind says cousin, could he mean a war mind in a different solar system? the war minds in ours are his Brothers and sisters so are his cousins in a different solar system
What if siva was trying to assist the light and sensed the fallens light perhaps still part of the fallen and assumed when we attacked or defended against them we were the bad guys
Just a thought... The Vex are able to travel time as well as space. What if they came back from their original time and are from the far future? Could the Siva be the precursor to the Vex Radiolorium?
I believe SIVA is the BLACK GOO by the Taken, which has floating metal and replicates repeatedly, I.E. the Taken Psion's, Goblin's, etc. It seems obvious but?
Typical amazing content. Keep it up!
is SIVA evil, or just malleable, can we use it? or because the fallen found it first, it is corupted, or can we still use it for good? i really want to know.
Hey byf, I found in the reveal trailer there's a giant servitor like ball behind the siva captain boss, if you look at a certain scene, one of the colony ship ball things are missing.
This might be a bit far fetched but the Devils lair strike is based right under the same colony ship, could have siva infected sepiks primes core and used him to posses the ball and destroy the wall with it?
I wished were getting that snowy looking place people had been teasing for months now.
some one brote a good point about this expansion that rasputan and seva could be Major players in the new expansion. that rasputan may be forced to work with the gardens because seva is a threat to him. this would be cool to see cose we could see how he thinks of the gardens and we may change haw he views them and the city ultimately leading him to whale not being friends but at lest realize that the gardens are better as friends then enemies to him.
Great work brother.
Hey byf go to the tower to the vanguard hall and go behind ikora and so u will find several flags that read a specific code go search this code and it will link u to a extract from the bible and u might ask why but i speculate that the book of deuteronomy the code is 28 68 read it its very interesting
thats insane , are there more ?
+AwakeningPeepz im not sure but i found alot of other theories like what if the fallen were once upon a time human but evolved or otherwise fell under the runes of the collapse and had to rebuild once again with whatever they had hence the fact that they got divided into houses like house of devils,kings,wolves etc
Byf, I think the symbol we are seeing on the armor represents SIVA, not a new warmind. Why? Logic dictates that a project would need a way of identification. SIVA is an AI which can rapidly mutate and spread. It would be able to remember this symbol. What do you think?
SIVA maybe a selfie aware AI. And in its path to gain more knowledge, it found the darkness than a "error 404" popped up and it was corrupted.
Or SIVA maybe the mother of all WarMinds, it is after all a golden age relic.
Would it be possible that siva was a prototype warmind and due to it being a prototype went rampant very early in its life cycle and was sealed away before it could do any damage and was then later released during the collapse and after festering for so long siva managed to become sentient and started to take revenge against anything it could find?
SIVA...replication, technical infestation, nanotechnology...reminds me a lot of the Borg from Star Trek franchise
Awesome thanks byf !!
Siva makes me kind of sad. We could have had the means to rebuild our civilization, but the tools we would use would rather kill us instead
just a thought, what if the fallen or a just a fallen house decide to or try to join the vex. they are machines and very powerful ones, what if the fallen see this and look up to the vex and try to make fallen/vex hybrids. I know skolas tried to steal weapons and technology of the vex but not join them. just a thought tho
I'd really also like to see that happen, a hybrid vex fallen enemy would be so fun to fight.
what if some of the now time travelling wolves augment themselves to look like the vex and they eventually become the vex?
+Flightless Bird what siva is actually some sort of vex
+Omar alcocer the original form of the vex
I would NEVER happen to do to the fact that they only see themselves as time, as gods. Any and everything else CAN NOT fit the pattern that they have made, are making, and have yet to make! (going you how they are in every moment of time )
Byf, I take it you enjoy PvE more than the crucible. So with that, I ask this. In the current PvE meta, what would be of more versatile use, hand cannons or pulse rifles (overall)?
What if....Siva's rampancy makes it believe it has an ultimate form of transcendence giving it the power of the traveler (;gardener, light, God), during the raid, the boss' before Siva is always different depending on what armour your using, what weapons what class and subclass, it can change things at will with its nano technology and it's a warmind of vast knowledge and simulations, resputon cracked the mind of a living vex, so siva could change the map and foe depending on what our class set up is, what pattern our characters are doing while running and jumping around the map..that...that is truly scary. Just a theory from me but I'd like it to be true
As the Vex are unstuck from time, what are the chances that they are derived from SIVA?
It would be sad if it turns out siva was a experimental warmind intelligence (a dumb Ai ) abandoned during the fall, and in its loneliness was touched by the darkness.
Maybe being "blessed" with the sword logic?
Indeed. If that occurred I would have sympathy for it. The thought of an abandoned, and possibly lonely ai being corrupted by the darkness... it makes for a tragic tale and a dangerous enemy.
Hey +My name is Byf do you know when we'll get the next episode of Legends of Destiny or Book of Sorrows
Hey byf, on the bungie forums their is a really good theory on the exo stranger. I think you should check it out
I wonder if it controls or infects the host (splicers) or if the fallen must replicate it themselves
Hmm Sword Logic in a Machine,
Sounds like a Vex Mind I know... cough cough Quaria
Strange thing about the fallen is that a while ago i posted a comment on a lore video talking about them, i said that i, "felt sorry for them and wished they gained some sort of 'higher power' to help them." ....Did Bungie use my idea?!
The SIVA symbol definitely looks like a broken and mutated Warmind symbol...
it's like the Wow affect on Soma
I know that the Fallen find SIVA and it corrupts them, but does this mean that they will have new names? like Dregs not being dregs anymore?
Byf
Anyone have the Baron's Ambition Machine Gun? The quote is kinda cool!
Destiny needs to add a horde mode with objectives with 6 players like the raid, just more enemies
Or a reverse raid?
in the grimmor mysteries rasputin onlys talks about something called "it" is he talking about siva? (havnt watched full vid yet)
Maybe civa is a corrupted warmind that was outside of the cosmodrome wall
Hey Byf, when will we get those cool animations with the extra lore series? Can I donate somewhere? I really want those animations back
there still here just takes an long time
link for donation is in the description click on patreon
his patron...
They're still coming! You can check the link in the description to donate to the Patreon! Your money supports the Video Grimoire and many other projects like Books of Sorrow.
I actually just listen to these so I don't mind. I actually prefer these without the animation because they're more comfortable.
your videos are very good.
I remember in some mission, I scanned something and the ghost said maybe Rasputin didnt wake himself up. Do you think it was SIVA
Yah Promethian code it was a panel with a red tint and background so Siva could be slowly corrupting Rasputin
Rasputin used an orbital strike to cripple the traveler so he can stay with humanity and protect it,
because if he leaves, Humanity only has rasputin
Does anybody else think that Bungie should have used the House of Kings instead of the House of Devils? We really don't know much about that house, and we could really gain some more information on the House of Kings.
The Devils are desperate and the Kings still have there archon, Kell, and Prime Servitor.
+Alpha Spartan Which we haven't seen their Kell, Archon Priest or Prime Servitor.
I'd actually prefer them to save the house of kings for later. They seem to be a really strong house and would probably be better as a something to appear late in Destiny's life span
what's that site you're using that has the audio player of the grimiore?
Byf. what links do you believe the ghosts have to Rasputin? are ghosts actually from the traveler. or do ghosts believe they are. did siva create the vex?
great video!
siva could be ultron. expect maybe even weaker.
Or it is Windows 10
+robert pike (Godzilla2014fan) dank memes
Siva Vs Ultron
ST0RMBRINGER117 ultron since siva needs a mind to work
One must consider if one uses one too much. One does love one's videos however.
Last time I came this early was the stone age
I think it's not a stretch to think that SIVA is itself a warmind.
I still think we are the darkness and Siva is the light as in life. We just fighting on the wrong side but have no idea yet.
SIVA is obviously Ultron.
Sometime I find it hard to understand because I start focusing on the gameplay than what you are actually saying.
Byf do you think that were be be Siva shaders ?
Taken SIVA? would that be possible?
How long after the collapse does destiny take place in? Where our guardian is there?
Please talk about the cloudwalkers!!!!