Bro the power 9, dual lands, Gaies Cradle, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Dark Ritual, Jeweled lotus, Ancient Tombs, City of Traitors, Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, are all super healthy for the format whenever one rich douchebag just sneaks that into a casual game bro trust me bro. It's all good for the format bro.
@@Kyouto_c I think the most important rule in any game, especially multiplayer is "everyone is responsible for their own fun." I do think if you only have one deck you might avoid cards that will get you not invited back, but if everyone takes ownership of their cards and their plays, it greatly reduces the amount of negative feelings towards a particular person or deck. If I can use my main deck, I'm happy to lose lol
@@IIIHUSKIII "No matter how many secret lairs they try to peddle" Or alternates, or the 40,000 plus card pool. Nah man, you're right, it's like UNO. That's why Uno's as popular as MTG!
I can mostly agree with this. Imo, the best thing to do whenever you play with new people is just talk with them. What do they play? What do they dislike? What cards do they think should be banned? Personally, I don’t hate land removal, but other people do. Personally I don’t like winter orb but maybe someone is fine with playing against it. I just feel like people police shit too hard. Just have fun and figure out what works best with your pod.
@@joeymorin7 its part of the game, there are too many broken cards to start doing a banlist at this point. If you dont like communication, go play pauper edh
Rule 0 introduces more issues than it solves and in fact it makes communities less communicative and more toxic. If a card is legal, it is LEGAL. Who is banning it? And why? Because that person doesn't like that card? The most healthy thing is allowing cards that are legal, too be indeed legal
rule 0 works best when playing with people for longer than 2 games. Its just a die roll if you are playing with randoms (I try to scale based on interaction level for this reason), but if you have a playgroup youve played with for a while you can get a grip of their character and what they like to play against.
Bro the power 9, dual lands, Gaies Cradle, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Dark Ritual, Ancient Tombs, City of Traitors, Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, are all super healthy for the format whenever one rich douchebag just sneaks that into a casual game bro trust me bro. It's all good for the format bro.
My experience so far: So wait everyone uses mana in this game? Okay that is the most important strat is controlling that then! I will make a land destroy deck! Them: GET OUT OF MY GD HOUSE RIGHT TF NOW! Me: What? What? WHAT?! Watches them play a 4 turn win strat* Now THIS is balanced magic! If it isn't on the ban list, ima playing it and I will consider it poor sportsmanship to try and control other people and how they play the game. Everyone has interaction and tons of Lands in their deck, and even my best strip mine rotations couldn't keep up with the land draw of 4 decks. Considering most ppl play on a mana curve of 4, it shouldn't take more than a couple turns to bounce back so I think ppl should relax a bit on Land Destroy. Especially with the amount of Polykraken decks I have seen brought to brick and morter stores. You know what I mean. Turn 1 blightsteel is pretty common in my meta :P I agree with the notion of communicating with the group before hand, that had helped me find games with my boogie man land destroy deck lol
My playgroup and i got heavy into cedh. It got a little stale after a while so we took a list of cedh staples and blanket banned them, made new decks adhering to said list and its worked a treat. Most fun weve had playing in ages. No unwritten rules, anything goes as long as u adhere to the banlist 🎉
@@errrzarrr Let's say we blanket banned the cedh staples in casual edh. This would encourage creative deck building. (Sol ring would be banned so people would have to build more creatively for example. Thats one slot free from the auto include.) Lower the barrier for entry (no one playing a £200 Cards like mana crypt or £40 dockside in their power lvl '7') No more vague house rules and unwritten laws. (No more feel bad moments, everyone just trying to make the best deck they can within the constraints.) Unify house rules in LGS's. (No worry that your deck might not be legal from lgs to lgs) Create a clear definition of edh to cedh. (If people want to player the strongest Cards they simple play cedh. If they want to play obscure jank they play casual edh. No need for vague power levels)
This has always been a EDH paradox to me when it comes to CEDH: how boring the games are since everyone uses the 1% staples so you basically have 10 cards different in the deck and the rest is staples and interaction LOL ;p
@@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299 it has it's pros and cons, that's for sure. The way I see it, however, is that if you can make a janky card work in cedh it feels all the more rewarding!
I feel it’s a symptom of competitive 1v1 players entering a more social/multiplayer format and the lines between Cedh and casual blur more often. Also, I have watched people say “just a precon” and steam roll late game because everyone left them alone.
No Its a symptom of edh arms races at different lgs' causing the power creep in casual The line between cEDH and higher power casual is firmer than it was in 2013
9:57 isn't this single play already "a story", though? What happens after tthe boil? Everyone scoops and leaves? Or do you have a whole other half of the game with a different dynamic? If you watch some channels that show commander games, almost every game is kind of the same stuff happening again and again, only with slightly different pieces. It really starts to look kinda like a board game, but I mean this in a bad way. MTG is more complex than any (or almost any) board game, removing some of its most unique game pieces and lines only serves to make it more boring. I think we could just as well flip your arguments around. Maybe if your fun hinges on having the same kind of game every time without being disturbed, that is something you should expect from your pod, not from the whole format, or random strangers.
Honestly, relative power levels are the only thing I bother caring about when it comes to Rule 0- I don't want to take a modified PreCon against cEDH power levels, but even then I understand that two decks that are at the same relative power level will not be balanced against each other- some strategies and builds are going to inherently shit all over other strategies and builds. If I'm playing a low-to-the-ground aggressive deck, its going to maul most combo decks. Part of the game is understanding that fairness is rare- even two identical decks played against each other can have better draws where one blows out the other- and that skill comes from understanding how to tips odds in your favor, through deck building, good play decisions, and even just having a good attitude towards losing. I've played goofy little jank/meme decks and I don't demand people modify their decks to make it fair, I just understand that I may get to do something funny and then I'll probably die horribly. I've played high-powered, ultra-consistent decks and understand that it can make me a target. And I've seen people bring their 9-10 cEDH deck and get stomped because someone with a 6 had a counterspell and open mana at the right time. Just play the game, enjoy yourself, and learn to learn from the game and your local meta.
Mass land destruction is fine if you have a way to end the game right after. I run Armageddon in my slivers to either bait out a blue counter spell or shut everybody off from heroic intervention/ other protection when I do a combo to get the entire deck out. I don’t use it saltily. It’s important to explain that. But when people want to rule zero alternate win conditions or other personal problem cards, that gets extremely tiring.
The game is generally falsely advertised when it comes to the vibes, this game isnt competitive in the slightest. Its as competitive as someone calling taking a dump a competitive game.
I wish the Rules Committee were more proactive with the list, hitting some unpopular cards that apply unengaging board states. Ban Companion Zone, Lesson Spells aren't allowed in a sideboard because you can choose to resolve the loot option of Learn abilities. Companion cards can still be played in the 100 cards, just can't run it in the Companion Zone. To add to that, 1/5 of the Companions already can't be used as a companion due to conflicts in the Commander Rules.
I played when Standard had a stasis deck my "friend" had one.. it was miserable to play against. Give me interaction in my game. If my opponent is playing a deck where his hardest choice is which counter to play I won't play him again willingly.
The biggest issue of unwritten rules imo is that they make land decks way stronger than they should be. I could take an archelos infinite turns deck with the Magosi Waterveil combo, run none of the cards on the salt list, and probably still generate as much salt as any of them. Wotc hasnt really made a non-salty means to combat decks whose land bases swing for the fences
This kind of *heavy* reliance on social contracts to balance the game also disproportionately impacts people with ASD or other neurodivergent traits. Navigating these kinds of social situations with non-neurodivergent people can be very difficult, even when you're trying very hard. Ironically, a game like Magic tends to disproportionately attract those of us with ASD precisely *because* the rules of the game are so well defined and meticulously articulated. To then enter a format where the main rules of engagement aren't written down anywhere, aren't consistently agreed upon or upheld, and require that you have a social negotiation not just before every game but within each game itself - it's really stressful and intimidating.
I just wanted to respond and say I struggle with the social cues and unwritten rules like I won a game via alt win condition and everyone was bummed out and mad and said it was shitty an I basically cant use that deck cause of it
I don't have ASD, and I still find the politics of commander to be a dealbreaker. It's just No Fun™ to have to manage other people's feelings at the table.
The format desperately needs a ban list, but the rules committee for Commander are basically run by Libertarians with a 'the market will figure it out' mentality.
Would a pod of decks that are all similar in price be balanced? Assuming all cards are priced at their normal/cheapest printings. Like instead of sitting down and everyone saying their deck is a "7" what if everyone knew how expensive their deck was? Would that lead to more fair an balanced power levels in games?
Even with similar monetary costs, experience and mindful deck construction can weigh the scales for a given deck. Some decks are expensive for the scarcity of the cards, not for their power, not to mention variant arts and promos. That said, budgetary restraints can work for the purposes of trying a new deck
@@otterfire4712 I think an equally priced pod would illegitimize a lot of salt because it takes out pretty much all unfairness or unbalanced aspects of magic. (that being the wallet of different players) How can anyone say a card, combo or deck is unfair when they could've had it too?
@@PoketRokets to a degree I can see that. My friend group can all pretty much afford to run Armageddon, but almost none of us run it because of how toxic it is, attacking a player's mana base is far more painful than removing a player's graveyard. Committing war crimes are generally in bad taste, even on a budget.
Playing cards with a high salt score depend on the power level you want to play at, if your are playing high power decks, I really don't see the problem in running pieces like cursed totem or collector ouphe, since most of the time this is the only thing that will stop people from winning with a combo on turn 4/5
Commander as a "board game experience" does not work even in concept, or does any of you usually go to your Friends to play Monopoly and brings their own gamepiece which is allowed to roll an extra dice when moving? No, why. Because in Board games one player hosts them and brings all the pieces, therefore they are all Balanced to the same standard.
The commander banlist really is a joke, When you want to build a cedh deck, the easiest thing to do is to go the legacy banned list / vintage restricted list and pick up all of those cards that are legal in commander, since those clearly are too powerful. Does this work always? no. Does it get you a very strong deck? yes, especially if you play a good value commander and shove in thoracle, dockside and breach, at that point, as long as you have a stable mana base + tutors you will win a decent amount of games
The RC's stance is honestly baffling. If a game-warping card is $80 then it doesn't need a ban because nobody plays it because it's expensive! Oh but if a really good card is cheap then they can't ban it either because it's too ubiquitous (Sol Ring being the biggest example, where the RC has stated it would 100% be banned today if it wasn't so common). They just... don't want to ban cards at all. It makes for an utterly miserable experience because decks can run over $200 and you just have no idea if it will be playable in any given group because powerlevel is all over the place. Oh boy it's time to guess if my LGS has a houserule that counterspells return the card to hand, or if they only have proxied cEDH! Another game where I drove out 15 minutes to lose because someone else played 4 pieces of ramp under Rhystic Study without paying for it even after I told him what will happen.
Why do you even look at the bann list when you play casually? Just talk to your friends what experience you are after and then try to follow what you agreed upon. If one player plays a Deck that dos not fit the playgroup, then communicate that! Are you playing Casual EDH with random strangers? If you have a group of friends to play EDH with I would assume before you even buy/build a deck you talk about it and ask for the opinion of the others and what changes can be made to better fit your environment. There will always be CEDH no matter what card you bann. There will always be a small number of Tier 1 decks and if someone is willing to play the “best legal deck” in a casual pod, then that person will always be able to do so, regardless of what the bann list looks like.
I've played both Yugioh for 13 years and MTG for 10, and it always shocks me how unwilling MTG is to ban cards. I know people at WotC and EDH players don't want a massive banlist like Yugioh has, but there are all there these soft-banned cards due to rule 0. I feel that Rule 0 is ineffective and if there is an unfun or broken card, it should be banned. I think that any card with AT LEAST a 2.00 or higher on the salt score should be banned
generally speaking, that's because the people making the banlist for commander aren't an actual ruling body. and because it's supposed to be a casual format. you aren't playing for money so everything goes and it's up to playgroups to say otherwise, because everyone has a different understanding of what is fun and what should be allowed. all in all i'm of the belief there should be no banlist. because every group is different. sure, that butchers cedh but honestly if they have an issue with the banlist being abolished they make their own banlist since their intending to be a competitive take on the format.
"all in all i'm of the belief there should be no banlist." I AGREE! What I'm saying is if the rules committee has a banlist, then they should update the banlist more than once every few years
@@priinceoftiime its not even a real banlist tbh, its more of a vibes check. they even say to take the banned cards as guidelines of what else shouldnt be used.
@@DarkDiamondInc "These cards are not legal without prior agreement from the other players in the game, and may steer your playgroup to avoid other, similar cards." I've never read this part of the commander website before, thank you for pointing that out to me!
We have a guy at our LGS that breaks out a well tuned deck against new players with precons and we stopped that nonsense. People I’ve noticed don’t have a Rule 0 conversation. Ive had to walk away from a pod because the people seemed toxic and didn’t want to disclose how their deck functioned. I always tell people how many turns it takes me to win with my best hand and the sort of strategy I’m going for. And I try to match the vibe. I don’t have a ton of super tuned decks. One of super tuned decks is theft. Because if someone is playing broken extra turn spells or trying to sneak in a blightsteel colossus then I’m definitely going to help my self to their buffet.
As someone who uses a mana crypt and swaps it around between every single deck I have, that’s nonsense. Mana Crypt is NOT easy to obtain for everyone, or even the majority.
150 bucks is not easy to obtain, its easy for people with a lotta free money, but most causal players cant be dropping 150 on a card. its like saying a tesla is easy to obtain, it is, if you have a fuckton of excess money.
@@daltronius the comment we are both replying to is lamenting the way people play commander on mtgo, since mana crypt is easy to obtain, for an example. i agree that the crypt is hard to get in paper, but based on the comment above, the power level discussion sounds a lot worse playing fictional cards.
I was just talking to my buddy about how everyone hating land destruction, is a LARGE reason why green is so good in casual edh. So its ok for the green player to have 10 lands on turn 5, but its not ok to stop that strategy. Its ok to stop someones combo piece, its ok to board wipe to stop the player who goes wide with token creatures, its ok to destroy mana rocks, its ok to destroy mana dorks, its ok to stop any players strategy except for land ramp? This makes green ridiculously strong in casual edh as you literally arent able to stop the ramp which is a major part of green. You could also potentially just make a deck that wins off of lands which would probably not do that well in cedh, but would excel in casual edh, because no one is going to stop your win con due to this "no destroying land" rule.
I feel like people don't really understand the land destruction argument. Because land destruction is important. Mass land destruction is when things get frustrating. If everyone's lands are getting nuked that is just going to cause games to drag on. Targeted land destruction does need to become more accepted.
I’ve definitely found that even without infinite combos, lands is the best strategy in casual. The problem is there aren’t a lot of ways to deal with it other than mass land destruction. Mwonvuli Acid Moss and Stone Rain are not great cards, but Armageddon and Ravages of War will make everyone at the table hate you (and the landfall player will be in the best position after it). So there just aren’t a lot of strategies that counter land decks besides just winning first.
@@Lukaz2009 yeah I mean if you destroy all lands and then win shortly after that's fine imo, but dragging a game on for no reason is definitely annoying.
@@Lukaz2009 I agree though, if someone is playing mono color and has nykthos shrine to nxy, it should be ok to destroy that shit lol an extra 8 mana or whatever from one land is wild lol
@@liberty2087 yeah for sure, all you can do is hope when your pod sees the green player ramping the first 3-4 turns, that they at least attack that player, otherwise it doesn't matter if it's a short or long match, you will probably lose to the person with 2x the mana everyone else has lol.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it is not the individual cards that should be banned but the combination strategy associated with those cards that should be banned. What if you ran Grisselbrand in a janky demon tribal battlecruiser deck with Lord of the Pitt? What if Thassa’s Oracle was in a deck without Ad nauseum and was just in an artifact merfolk deck? I have Gollos as my five color Maze’s end gates commander. It hasn’t won a single game. Just run good cards in bad decks to balance them out. Sometimes bad decks need good cards to keep them afloat in MtG. Run Iona, but you have to hard cast her and you can’t put Painter’s Servant in the deck. There, problem solved.
I've played in a game (a non-cEDH) where one of the 2 tryhards at an LGS brought a Jorn stax cEDH deck which has Stasis (because the 2 tryhards are the worst sort of Spikes); it was unfun on many levels.
@@shaylic3795 It's a paid pod, so there's no discussion to be had other than the fact that it's the non-cEDH pod and you can't have a 2-card combo involving your commander as one of the cards. However, one of the tryhards hasn't been there in several weeks, and the Jorn stax guy has kinda chilled a little bit as a result.
This is a social format and as such, a ban list makes no sense. You have to man up and start asserting yourself and having conversations. If you aren't going to do that, and instead passive aggressively sit there with your mouth shut hoping everyone can read your mind, you're going to have a bad time in basically every playgroup and frankly in the rest of your life as well. Commander players are the absolute worst for this because so many of them think "social format" means "casual jank tribal" I've met the types as well, the people who will cry and moan if you swing at them with a 2/3 on turn 4. Or they get visibly shaken if you strip mine their cabal coffers because "HEY THAT'S LAND DESTRUCTION THATS UNFAIR!!!" Sorry sweetie, it's time to put your big boy pants on and realize this is an interactive game not your show and tell story time from 1st grade. You're allowed to play that way but if you want everyone else to you better start talking before hand, and if the majority of people in that pod say "no," then it's time to either adapt or find new people.
This annoying conversation is why my group shuns commander for vintage. We're all trying to win and we aren't trying to apologize for it. That being said, no one plays a deck twice in one night if it wins...
@@davideresenterra9648 I run a lot of interaction already in decks that I can match people with. The reason why many people like rule 0 is if there are three other people at the table who are playing cards that prolong the game, or remove agency from players, there is not enough card advantage in a single deck to warrant the claim that removal fixes the problem. Another point is that if you are the deck at the table with much more removal than your opponents, you can sometimes overpower the rest of the table even by playing fairly and you encounter the same issue of a loss of player agency. I am all for being confused by rule 0 because its a bandaid fix in random pods, I agree there, but when you play with an established group, its a requirement to communicate with people you play with. you dont have to call it anything special, its just to ensure people are having a good time.
I respect this channel a lot because of the banlist opinions. Anytime you mention things should obviously be banned you get shouted down and the rules committee shirking their responsibilities and enabling it don't help
Me after laying MTG for over half my life: The game is broken and that in itself is the fun. If you get pub stomped after a quick 15 minute game just excuse yourself and find another group to play with. FNM's playgroups as a whole are pretty good at weeding out the power pumper players and softly forcing them to play with the other power pumper pusher uppers, like I recommend that you even ask these try-hards to try one of your own decks so they can experience the power lvl your play group is comfortable with if you have to play with them and are already known to play ''HIGH POWER''. Personally I think CEDH is a big enough to leave the nest and have it's own ban lists to ''casual EDH'' after playing EDH for the last 10+ years and only seeing CEDH grow. Also me after playing MTG for over half my life hot take: Catastrophe is underrated as a win con; your behind blow up the creatures, your ahead blow up the lands and solidify your dominance! ;p LOL
I think we also need a new set of people determining the ban list, bc the current list actually is so short. The longer they skimp on banning cards bc they're too afraid of banning too many, the faster newbies will be pushed away as they witness more and more games ending before they've started.
Like if someone Thassas us turn 3, they might as well have just mugged everyone and left. The only difference is that mugging wastes much less of our time.
You mean to tell me that players are finally noticing that rule 0 is awful and don’t work? Oh gee golly gosh, it’s almost like me and some other people have been pointing it out for years only to be ignored.
No. Pre-game conversations are where people discuss these 'unwritten' rules before they play. In this way the rules aren't 'unwritten' anymore and become shared, and people can opt in or out.
@@RaiderhornBAR Pre-game discussions are better served for established playgroups that you know you’ll play with for more than a single session, and much like explaining a bad take you kind of get tired of explaining your ground rules to every set of 2-3 new faces you’ll probably never see again. Assuming you can find a game. Secondly, even if pre-game discussions are held not everyone has or wants to build more than one list for every kind of mystery table they may come across, then if the discussion goes south it may mean that the deck you wanted to play may not be able to do what it wants. Lastly the rule 0 conversation is still merely guidelines for the game itself and not actual rules, and this means that they can be broken at any time making the discussion moot.
@@ThePencilWizard I see. It would seem to me that the tiredness comes from lots of exposure to different players and playgroups, but maybe you have a different idea. Fortunately people don't have to do a conversation and could just share their deck list and make decisions thereof. That functionality has existed for a few months now on SpellTable too, to input a link in their name heading. If people ask for clarity, which they are entitled to, or opt out or ask for a change, which it has been apparent that this hinges on the honesty of the players, that can be infringed upon, you're right. It's indicative of being, quite simply, a matter of talking about it, of which not everyone is good at either, quite frankly. Now I don't know where the idea that it's supposed to be fool-proof came from, if it was thought at all, it never was nor do I think that is its objective, but I think it's also quite alright for people to be skeptical and not 'jump on' with the clamour for such a solution. It's possible to have conversation be abused, and we know this too with its opposite. No one has disputed that. But as far as I'm concerned, if people discuss beforehand and there is lying, or selective dishonesty, or the rules are broken like you said, supposing there were any, for whatever it may be, that isn't the conversation going south like it's a failure but rather that is its success, and you've found who it is that you might not want to play with or replay with. If we take the purpose of pre-game discussion to be finding out what it is people would like to play, then you're right that it will help established playgroups. I think there are claims which, and not everyone agrees, that it helps in establishing new ones too. This isn't something held only in-person, you can readily find this on SpellTable too with titles such as "High Power No Mox" or "Precon chill" or "EDH 5-6 No Infinite." Some even host open to the public games that are cEDH with no Mox. These are not pre-game discussion per se but they are setting expectations the way a pre-game would, and a further discussion in the lobby would add to that but is certainly not required. And, there are games hosted online as well which don't make any restrictions or requests, and this is generally the case in real life too at locals. There's a surprising number of people who generally accept anything, to the point that, I think, they're the majority. As far as I've found it's more common that others encourage people to do what they want, and are quite thankful to those who actually talk about their decks.
@@ThePencilWizard So your problems are rule 0 is bad because you don't want to explain things(IE you don't actually want to use rule 0) you only want to run one single deck for every possible table you come across(by definition impossible,) and for some reason you feel obligated to keep playing with people who literally just lie/ignore the pre-game discussion? I'm sorry but absolutely none of these are convincing arguments for some mega ban list that bans every "my feelings got hurt by this" cards.
@@jamescobblepot4744 Some pretty bold leaps in what I stated, but I also assume you’re perfectly fine if I sit here and use Nadu to take 30 min turns. There’s no win con, just Nadu and cards that shuffle my hand and graveyard back together.
Dear EDH RC, PLEASE ban more cards. You're the only bulwark to the ceiling of degeneracy possible at a random LGS. Power scale is too subjective, and that's not accounting for intentional deception. We're all tired of arguments about who's deck is sweatier. We all want to be told what's not acceptable. We all want half to two thirds of the "designed to be forever EDH staples" cards banned. Just do it.
We all know no one wants to sit and watch the stax prison player hide behind humility/counterspells. Taking 8 minute turns, digging for thassa's oracle, as the only win condition in their entire 99. I for one came to commander partially to get away from those "I win if you can't play decks". I can't stop you from overuse of super busted stax. But I'm going to talk to you like I would any Grief player in modern. You are a sweaty basement timmy.
I’m not really a fan of board game magic. nobody else likes any resource interaction but me. This whole side of every color is pseudo banned by folks who don’t even understand 60 cards base magic. This format was supposed to be nothing. It’s a pain man.
The rules for edh are clearly defined. If you want to change the rules then go impose random arbitrary rules on your play group. We'll be over here using proxies, actually playing the game as intended while you guys bitch and moan about power levels and salty cards in Cedh (Casual commander) as normal commander includes cards like dark ritual etc. play by the rules and admit you "casual gamers" are the ones trying to change the rules, not us normal commander players who CBA with a bs struggle session before every single game.
You realize that it's the only format that is vintage format that doesn't just run multiple copies of the most broken cards in all history. I'd rather combo every day rather than deal with infinite turn vintage standard. It's also becoming the largest format in magic because of how broken running four copies of a single card can be in a deck nearly half the size.
The people complaining about rule zero being a bad thing are the same people who pretend theyre fine with getting all their lands destoryed and then hit with a stasis.
I fight through stax all the time. It's truly not that big of a deal assuming your mana curve doesn't start at 3+ (and if it does, you literally deserve to be staxxed out).
Bro the power 9, dual lands, Gaies Cradle, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Dark Ritual, Jeweled lotus, Ancient Tombs, City of Traitors, Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, are all super healthy for the format whenever one rich douchebag just sneaks that into a casual game bro trust me bro. It's all good for the format bro.
I think the general consensus is that you can bring these kinds of cards and decks, but be prepared for people to ask you to pick a different deck.
This, if my friendgroup is getting tired of my one deck i either use my other or ask for one of theirs to play.
@@Kyouto_c I think the most important rule in any game, especially multiplayer is "everyone is responsible for their own fun." I do think if you only have one deck you might avoid cards that will get you not invited back, but if everyone takes ownership of their cards and their plays, it greatly reduces the amount of negative feelings towards a particular person or deck. If I can use my main deck, I'm happy to lose lol
Just... just play the game, lol. You have to win boardgames, too.
Board games aren’t collector card games with “freedom of expression” as a driving selling point
@@Garl_Vinland well, according to wizards...
@@Garl_VinlandNeither is Magic the Gathering, so matter how many Secret Lairs they try to peddle.
@@IIIHUSKIII "No matter how many secret lairs they try to peddle" Or alternates, or the 40,000 plus card pool. Nah man, you're right, it's like UNO. That's why Uno's as popular as MTG!
Since Iona is something that is considered "unhealthy" then they should reevaluate the card(s) that can/will turn the game into solitaire.
I can mostly agree with this. Imo, the best thing to do whenever you play with new people is just talk with them. What do they play? What do they dislike? What cards do they think should be banned? Personally, I don’t hate land removal, but other people do. Personally I don’t like winter orb but maybe someone is fine with playing against it. I just feel like people police shit too hard. Just have fun and figure out what works best with your pod.
Then why have any banlist at all?
@@Reluxthelegendyou can rule zero out the banlist aswell
@@DKODA97only if the rest of the table agrees. Hence the talking to them part -_-
@@joeymorin7 its part of the game, there are too many broken cards to start doing a banlist at this point. If you dont like communication, go play pauper edh
Rule 0 introduces more issues than it solves and in fact it makes communities less communicative and more toxic.
If a card is legal, it is LEGAL. Who is banning it? And why? Because that person doesn't like that card?
The most healthy thing is allowing cards that are legal, too be indeed legal
Rule 0 is only enforced if every player agrees if not it goes back to default rules
Unfortunately the rules committee doesn't agree. I want a better ban list before I want this commonly accepted
The rules committee isn’t even an official WotC rule maker, so even commander banking’s aren’t official
rule 0 works best when playing with people for longer than 2 games. Its just a die roll if you are playing with randoms (I try to scale based on interaction level for this reason), but if you have a playgroup youve played with for a while you can get a grip of their character and what they like to play against.
Bro the power 9, dual lands, Gaies Cradle, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Dark Ritual, Ancient Tombs, City of Traitors, Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, are all super healthy for the format whenever one rich douchebag just sneaks that into a casual game bro trust me bro. It's all good for the format bro.
My experience so far: So wait everyone uses mana in this game? Okay that is the most important strat is controlling that then! I will make a land destroy deck! Them: GET OUT OF MY GD HOUSE RIGHT TF NOW! Me: What? What? WHAT?! Watches them play a 4 turn win strat* Now THIS is balanced magic! If it isn't on the ban list, ima playing it and I will consider it poor sportsmanship to try and control other people and how they play the game. Everyone has interaction and tons of Lands in their deck, and even my best strip mine rotations couldn't keep up with the land draw of 4 decks. Considering most ppl play on a mana curve of 4, it shouldn't take more than a couple turns to bounce back so I think ppl should relax a bit on Land Destroy. Especially with the amount of Polykraken decks I have seen brought to brick and morter stores. You know what I mean. Turn 1 blightsteel is pretty common in my meta :P I agree with the notion of communicating with the group before hand, that had helped me find games with my boogie man land destroy deck lol
My playgroup and i got heavy into cedh. It got a little stale after a while so we took a list of cedh staples and blanket banned them, made new decks adhering to said list and its worked a treat.
Most fun weve had playing in ages. No unwritten rules, anything goes as long as u adhere to the banlist 🎉
Why should a non competitive format and fun format should have a ban list from a competitive format? If it is legal, it is legal.
@@errrzarrr
Let's say we blanket banned the cedh staples in casual edh.
This would encourage creative deck building. (Sol ring would be banned so people would have to build more creatively for example. Thats one slot free from the auto include.)
Lower the barrier for entry (no one playing a £200 Cards like mana crypt or £40 dockside in their power lvl '7')
No more vague house rules and unwritten laws. (No more feel bad moments, everyone just trying to make the best deck they can within the constraints.)
Unify house rules in LGS's. (No worry that your deck might not be legal from lgs to lgs)
Create a clear definition of edh to cedh. (If people want to player the strongest Cards they simple play cedh. If they want to play obscure jank they play casual edh. No need for vague power levels)
Who polices that in a playgroup@@errrzarrr
This has always been a EDH paradox to me when it comes to CEDH: how boring the games are since everyone uses the 1% staples so you basically have 10 cards different in the deck and the rest is staples and interaction LOL ;p
@@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299 it has it's pros and cons, that's for sure. The way I see it, however, is that if you can make a janky card work in cedh it feels all the more rewarding!
I feel it’s a symptom of competitive 1v1 players entering a more social/multiplayer format and the lines between Cedh and casual blur more often. Also, I have watched people say “just a precon” and steam roll late game because everyone left them alone.
No
Its a symptom of edh arms races at different lgs' causing the power creep in casual
The line between cEDH and higher power casual is firmer than it was in 2013
9:57 isn't this single play already "a story", though? What happens after tthe boil? Everyone scoops and leaves? Or do you have a whole other half of the game with a different dynamic?
If you watch some channels that show commander games, almost every game is kind of the same stuff happening again and again, only with slightly different pieces. It really starts to look kinda like a board game, but I mean this in a bad way. MTG is more complex than any (or almost any) board game, removing some of its most unique game pieces and lines only serves to make it more boring.
I think we could just as well flip your arguments around. Maybe if your fun hinges on having the same kind of game every time without being disturbed, that is something you should expect from your pod, not from the whole format, or random strangers.
Honestly, relative power levels are the only thing I bother caring about when it comes to Rule 0- I don't want to take a modified PreCon against cEDH power levels, but even then I understand that two decks that are at the same relative power level will not be balanced against each other- some strategies and builds are going to inherently shit all over other strategies and builds. If I'm playing a low-to-the-ground aggressive deck, its going to maul most combo decks. Part of the game is understanding that fairness is rare- even two identical decks played against each other can have better draws where one blows out the other- and that skill comes from understanding how to tips odds in your favor, through deck building, good play decisions, and even just having a good attitude towards losing. I've played goofy little jank/meme decks and I don't demand people modify their decks to make it fair, I just understand that I may get to do something funny and then I'll probably die horribly. I've played high-powered, ultra-consistent decks and understand that it can make me a target. And I've seen people bring their 9-10 cEDH deck and get stomped because someone with a 6 had a counterspell and open mana at the right time.
Just play the game, enjoy yourself, and learn to learn from the game and your local meta.
And whats your basis for relative powers?
Mass land destruction is fine if you have a way to end the game right after. I run Armageddon in my slivers to either bait out a blue counter spell or shut everybody off from heroic intervention/ other protection when I do a combo to get the entire deck out. I don’t use it saltily. It’s important to explain that. But when people want to rule zero alternate win conditions or other personal problem cards, that gets extremely tiring.
The game is generally falsely advertised when it comes to the vibes, this game isnt competitive in the slightest. Its as competitive as someone calling taking a dump a competitive game.
I wish the Rules Committee were more proactive with the list, hitting some unpopular cards that apply unengaging board states.
Ban Companion Zone, Lesson Spells aren't allowed in a sideboard because you can choose to resolve the loot option of Learn abilities. Companion cards can still be played in the 100 cards, just can't run it in the Companion Zone. To add to that, 1/5 of the Companions already can't be used as a companion due to conflicts in the Commander Rules.
I played when Standard had a stasis deck my "friend" had one.. it was miserable to play against. Give me interaction in my game. If my opponent is playing a deck where his hardest choice is which counter to play I won't play him again willingly.
The biggest issue of unwritten rules imo is that they make land decks way stronger than they should be. I could take an archelos infinite turns deck with the Magosi Waterveil combo, run none of the cards on the salt list, and probably still generate as much salt as any of them. Wotc hasnt really made a non-salty means to combat decks whose land bases swing for the fences
This kind of *heavy* reliance on social contracts to balance the game also disproportionately impacts people with ASD or other neurodivergent traits. Navigating these kinds of social situations with non-neurodivergent people can be very difficult, even when you're trying very hard. Ironically, a game like Magic tends to disproportionately attract those of us with ASD precisely *because* the rules of the game are so well defined and meticulously articulated. To then enter a format where the main rules of engagement aren't written down anywhere, aren't consistently agreed upon or upheld, and require that you have a social negotiation not just before every game but within each game itself - it's really stressful and intimidating.
"Neurodivergent" is a commie made up word, it doesn't exist, it's just losers.
I just wanted to respond and say I struggle with the social cues and unwritten rules like I won a game via alt win condition and everyone was bummed out and mad and said it was shitty an I basically cant use that deck cause of it
People with asd struggle with everything. No one cares.
I don't have ASD, and I still find the politics of commander to be a dealbreaker.
It's just No Fun™ to have to manage other people's feelings at the table.
@@arc-sd8sk absolutely I dont get how purposefully hamstringing yourself for narrative is fun
The format desperately needs a ban list, but the rules committee for Commander are basically run by Libertarians with a 'the market will figure it out' mentality.
Would a pod of decks that are all similar in price be balanced? Assuming all cards are priced at their normal/cheapest printings. Like instead of sitting down and everyone saying their deck is a "7" what if everyone knew how expensive their deck was? Would that lead to more fair an balanced power levels in games?
Even with similar monetary costs, experience and mindful deck construction can weigh the scales for a given deck. Some decks are expensive for the scarcity of the cards, not for their power, not to mention variant arts and promos.
That said, budgetary restraints can work for the purposes of trying a new deck
@@otterfire4712 I think an equally priced pod would illegitimize a lot of salt because it takes out pretty much all unfairness or unbalanced aspects of magic. (that being the wallet of different players) How can anyone say a card, combo or deck is unfair when they could've had it too?
@@PoketRokets to a degree I can see that. My friend group can all pretty much afford to run Armageddon, but almost none of us run it because of how toxic it is, attacking a player's mana base is far more painful than removing a player's graveyard.
Committing war crimes are generally in bad taste, even on a budget.
Playing cards with a high salt score depend on the power level you want to play at, if your are playing high power decks, I really don't see the problem in running pieces like cursed totem or collector ouphe, since most of the time this is the only thing that will stop people from winning with a combo on turn 4/5
Commander as a "board game experience" does not work even in concept, or does any of you usually go to your Friends to play Monopoly and brings their own gamepiece which is allowed to roll an extra dice when moving?
No, why. Because in Board games one player hosts them and brings all the pieces, therefore they are all Balanced to the same standard.
As a yugioh player that plays magic commander. All I know is the bazooka.
The commander banlist really is a joke,
When you want to build a cedh deck, the easiest thing to do is to go the legacy banned list / vintage restricted list and pick up all of those cards that are legal in commander, since those clearly are too powerful. Does this work always? no. Does it get you a very strong deck? yes, especially if you play a good value commander and shove in thoracle, dockside and breach, at that point, as long as you have a stable mana base + tutors you will win a decent amount of games
The RC's stance is honestly baffling.
If a game-warping card is $80 then it doesn't need a ban because nobody plays it because it's expensive!
Oh but if a really good card is cheap then they can't ban it either because it's too ubiquitous (Sol Ring being the biggest example, where the RC has stated it would 100% be banned today if it wasn't so common).
They just... don't want to ban cards at all. It makes for an utterly miserable experience because decks can run over $200 and you just have no idea if it will be playable in any given group because powerlevel is all over the place. Oh boy it's time to guess if my LGS has a houserule that counterspells return the card to hand, or if they only have proxied cEDH! Another game where I drove out 15 minutes to lose because someone else played 4 pieces of ramp under Rhystic Study without paying for it even after I told him what will happen.
Why do you even look at the bann list when you play casually?
Just talk to your friends what experience you are after and then try to follow what you agreed upon. If one player plays a Deck that dos not fit the playgroup, then communicate that!
Are you playing Casual EDH with random strangers?
If you have a group of friends to play EDH with I would assume before you even buy/build a deck you talk about it and ask for the opinion of the others and what changes can be made to better fit your environment.
There will always be CEDH no matter what card you bann. There will always be a small number of Tier 1 decks and if someone is willing to play the “best legal deck” in a casual pod, then that person will always be able to do so, regardless of what the bann list looks like.
Thats is why discuss before play, clarify before play!
I've played both Yugioh for 13 years and MTG for 10, and it always shocks me how unwilling MTG is to ban cards. I know people at WotC and EDH players don't want a massive banlist like Yugioh has, but there are all there these soft-banned cards due to rule 0. I feel that Rule 0 is ineffective and if there is an unfun or broken card, it should be banned. I think that any card with AT LEAST a 2.00 or higher on the salt score should be banned
generally speaking, that's because the people making the banlist for commander aren't an actual ruling body. and because it's supposed to be a casual format. you aren't playing for money so everything goes and it's up to playgroups to say otherwise, because everyone has a different understanding of what is fun and what should be allowed. all in all i'm of the belief there should be no banlist. because every group is different. sure, that butchers cedh but honestly if they have an issue with the banlist being abolished they make their own banlist since their intending to be a competitive take on the format.
"all in all i'm of the belief there should be no banlist." I AGREE! What I'm saying is if the rules committee has a banlist, then they should update the banlist more than once every few years
@@priinceoftiime its not even a real banlist tbh, its more of a vibes check. they even say to take the banned cards as guidelines of what else shouldnt be used.
@@DarkDiamondInc "These cards are not legal without prior agreement from the other players in the game, and may steer your playgroup to avoid other, similar cards." I've never read this part of the commander website before, thank you for pointing that out to me!
Old commander was just fine. Play what you have, and threat assess properly to try to win. That's it.
Stasis is my main stax piece in my Jorn $100 cedh deck lmao
We have a guy at our LGS that breaks out a well tuned deck against new players with precons and we stopped that nonsense. People I’ve noticed don’t have a Rule 0 conversation. Ive had to walk away from a pod because the people seemed toxic and didn’t want to disclose how their deck functioned. I always tell people how many turns it takes me to win with my best hand and the sort of strategy I’m going for. And I try to match the vibe. I don’t have a ton of super tuned decks. One of super tuned decks is theft. Because if someone is playing broken extra turn spells or trying to sneak in a blightsteel colossus then I’m definitely going to help my self to their buffet.
You see a lot of this stuff in mtgo, especially if you 1 vs 1. Cards aren't 1 billion dollars there. Mana Crypt is easy to obtain, for example.
As someone who uses a mana crypt and swaps it around between every single deck I have, that’s nonsense. Mana Crypt is NOT easy to obtain for everyone, or even the majority.
150 bucks is not easy to obtain, its easy for people with a lotta free money, but most causal players cant be dropping 150 on a card. its like saying a tesla is easy to obtain, it is, if you have a fuckton of excess money.
@@daltroniuson mtgo, mana crypt goes for about fifteen bucks.
@@GellyGelbertson so for a fictional manacrypt yea,.im talking in paper, the way most people play, other than proxies ur not finding one under 150.
@@daltronius the comment we are both replying to is lamenting the way people play commander on mtgo, since mana crypt is easy to obtain, for an example.
i agree that the crypt is hard to get in paper, but based on the comment above, the power level discussion sounds a lot worse playing fictional cards.
10:39 I like this analogy
They should ban more cards in Commander just to lower the overall power level of the format.
the worst part of commander is the stupid politics
Reddit having terrible takes - nothing new
I was just talking to my buddy about how everyone hating land destruction, is a LARGE reason why green is so good in casual edh. So its ok for the green player to have 10 lands on turn 5, but its not ok to stop that strategy. Its ok to stop someones combo piece, its ok to board wipe to stop the player who goes wide with token creatures, its ok to destroy mana rocks, its ok to destroy mana dorks, its ok to stop any players strategy except for land ramp? This makes green ridiculously strong in casual edh as you literally arent able to stop the ramp which is a major part of green. You could also potentially just make a deck that wins off of lands which would probably not do that well in cedh, but would excel in casual edh, because no one is going to stop your win con due to this "no destroying land" rule.
I feel like people don't really understand the land destruction argument.
Because land destruction is important. Mass land destruction is when things get frustrating. If everyone's lands are getting nuked that is just going to cause games to drag on. Targeted land destruction does need to become more accepted.
I’ve definitely found that even without infinite combos, lands is the best strategy in casual. The problem is there aren’t a lot of ways to deal with it other than mass land destruction. Mwonvuli Acid Moss and Stone Rain are not great cards, but Armageddon and Ravages of War will make everyone at the table hate you (and the landfall player will be in the best position after it). So there just aren’t a lot of strategies that counter land decks besides just winning first.
@@Lukaz2009 yeah I mean if you destroy all lands and then win shortly after that's fine imo, but dragging a game on for no reason is definitely annoying.
@@Lukaz2009 I agree though, if someone is playing mono color and has nykthos shrine to nxy, it should be ok to destroy that shit lol an extra 8 mana or whatever from one land is wild lol
@@liberty2087 yeah for sure, all you can do is hope when your pod sees the green player ramping the first 3-4 turns, that they at least attack that player, otherwise it doesn't matter if it's a short or long match, you will probably lose to the person with 2x the mana everyone else has lol.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it is not the individual cards that should be banned but the combination strategy associated with those cards that should be banned.
What if you ran Grisselbrand in a janky demon tribal battlecruiser deck with Lord of the Pitt?
What if Thassa’s Oracle was in a deck without Ad nauseum and was just in an artifact merfolk deck?
I have Gollos as my five color Maze’s end gates commander. It hasn’t won a single game.
Just run good cards in bad decks to balance them out. Sometimes bad decks need good cards to keep them afloat in MtG. Run Iona, but you have to hard cast her and you can’t put Painter’s Servant in the deck. There, problem solved.
I've played in a game (a non-cEDH) where one of the 2 tryhards at an LGS brought a Jorn stax cEDH deck which has Stasis (because the 2 tryhards are the worst sort of Spikes); it was unfun on many levels.
Did you guys discuss your decks before hand?
@@shaylic3795 It's a paid pod, so there's no discussion to be had other than the fact that it's the non-cEDH pod and you can't have a 2-card combo involving your commander as one of the cards. However, one of the tryhards hasn't been there in several weeks, and the Jorn stax guy has kinda chilled a little bit as a result.
This is a social format and as such, a ban list makes no sense. You have to man up and start asserting yourself and having conversations. If you aren't going to do that, and instead passive aggressively sit there with your mouth shut hoping everyone can read your mind, you're going to have a bad time in basically every playgroup and frankly in the rest of your life as well. Commander players are the absolute worst for this because so many of them think "social format" means "casual jank tribal" I've met the types as well, the people who will cry and moan if you swing at them with a 2/3 on turn 4. Or they get visibly shaken if you strip mine their cabal coffers because "HEY THAT'S LAND DESTRUCTION THATS UNFAIR!!!"
Sorry sweetie, it's time to put your big boy pants on and realize this is an interactive game not your show and tell story time from 1st grade. You're allowed to play that way but if you want everyone else to you better start talking before hand, and if the majority of people in that pod say "no," then it's time to either adapt or find new people.
This annoying conversation is why my group shuns commander for vintage. We're all trying to win and we aren't trying to apologize for it. That being said, no one plays a deck twice in one night if it wins...
Those no fun cards make for interesting matches if everyone runs them. It can lead to some bizarre and fun late game.
What would be maximum amount of cards that could be in banlist?
If they're not written, they're not rules.
Also, if you get salty about stuff, counter or remove it. It's your fault if you don't and then complain.
They are social constructs, so while you might be able to do these things in deckbuilding, it can make a bad experience for people
@@alexanderficken9354 run more interaction
@@davideresenterra9648 I run a lot of interaction already in decks that I can match people with. The reason why many people like rule 0 is if there are three other people at the table who are playing cards that prolong the game, or remove agency from players, there is not enough card advantage in a single deck to warrant the claim that removal fixes the problem.
Another point is that if you are the deck at the table with much more removal than your opponents, you can sometimes overpower the rest of the table even by playing fairly and you encounter the same issue of a loss of player agency.
I am all for being confused by rule 0 because its a bandaid fix in random pods, I agree there, but when you play with an established group, its a requirement to communicate with people you play with. you dont have to call it anything special, its just to ensure people are having a good time.
I respect this channel a lot because of the banlist opinions. Anytime you mention things should obviously be banned you get shouted down and the rules committee shirking their responsibilities and enabling it don't help
Me after laying MTG for over half my life: The game is broken and that in itself is the fun. If you get pub stomped after a quick 15 minute game just excuse yourself and find another group to play with. FNM's playgroups as a whole are pretty good at weeding out the power pumper players and softly forcing them to play with the other power pumper pusher uppers, like I recommend that you even ask these try-hards to try one of your own decks so they can experience the power lvl your play group is comfortable with if you have to play with them and are already known to play ''HIGH POWER''.
Personally I think CEDH is a big enough to leave the nest and have it's own ban lists to ''casual EDH'' after playing EDH for the last 10+ years and only seeing CEDH grow.
Also me after playing MTG for over half my life hot take: Catastrophe is underrated as a win con; your behind blow up the creatures, your ahead blow up the lands and solidify your dominance! ;p LOL
Rhystic study is casual change my mind.
I think we also need a new set of people determining the ban list, bc the current list actually is so short. The longer they skimp on banning cards bc they're too afraid of banning too many, the faster newbies will be pushed away as they witness more and more games ending before they've started.
Like if someone Thassas us turn 3, they might as well have just mugged everyone and left. The only difference is that mugging wastes much less of our time.
You mean to tell me that players are finally noticing that rule 0 is awful and don’t work? Oh gee golly gosh, it’s almost like me and some other people have been pointing it out for years only to be ignored.
No. Pre-game conversations are where people discuss these 'unwritten' rules before they play. In this way the rules aren't 'unwritten' anymore and become shared, and people can opt in or out.
@@RaiderhornBAR Pre-game discussions are better served for established playgroups that you know you’ll play with for more than a single session, and much like explaining a bad take you kind of get tired of explaining your ground rules to every set of 2-3 new faces you’ll probably never see again. Assuming you can find a game.
Secondly, even if pre-game discussions are held not everyone has or wants to build more than one list for every kind of mystery table they may come across, then if the discussion goes south it may mean that the deck you wanted to play may not be able to do what it wants.
Lastly the rule 0 conversation is still merely guidelines for the game itself and not actual rules, and this means that they can be broken at any time making the discussion moot.
@@ThePencilWizard I see. It would seem to me that the tiredness comes from lots of exposure to different players and playgroups, but maybe you have a different idea. Fortunately people don't have to do a conversation and could just share their deck list and make decisions thereof. That functionality has existed for a few months now on SpellTable too, to input a link in their name heading. If people ask for clarity, which they are entitled to, or opt out or ask for a change, which it has been apparent that this hinges on the honesty of the players, that can be infringed upon, you're right. It's indicative of being, quite simply, a matter of talking about it, of which not everyone is good at either, quite frankly. Now I don't know where the idea that it's supposed to be fool-proof came from, if it was thought at all, it never was nor do I think that is its objective, but I think it's also quite alright for people to be skeptical and not 'jump on' with the clamour for such a solution. It's possible to have conversation be abused, and we know this too with its opposite. No one has disputed that. But as far as I'm concerned, if people discuss beforehand and there is lying, or selective dishonesty, or the rules are broken like you said, supposing there were any, for whatever it may be, that isn't the conversation going south like it's a failure but rather that is its success, and you've found who it is that you might not want to play with or replay with.
If we take the purpose of pre-game discussion to be finding out what it is people would like to play, then you're right that it will help established playgroups. I think there are claims which, and not everyone agrees, that it helps in establishing new ones too. This isn't something held only in-person, you can readily find this on SpellTable too with titles such as "High Power No Mox" or "Precon chill" or "EDH 5-6 No Infinite." Some even host open to the public games that are cEDH with no Mox. These are not pre-game discussion per se but they are setting expectations the way a pre-game would, and a further discussion in the lobby would add to that but is certainly not required. And, there are games hosted online as well which don't make any restrictions or requests, and this is generally the case in real life too at locals. There's a surprising number of people who generally accept anything, to the point that, I think, they're the majority. As far as I've found it's more common that others encourage people to do what they want, and are quite thankful to those who actually talk about their decks.
@@ThePencilWizard So your problems are rule 0 is bad because you don't want to explain things(IE you don't actually want to use rule 0) you only want to run one single deck for every possible table you come across(by definition impossible,) and for some reason you feel obligated to keep playing with people who literally just lie/ignore the pre-game discussion? I'm sorry but absolutely none of these are convincing arguments for some mega ban list that bans every "my feelings got hurt by this" cards.
@@jamescobblepot4744
Some pretty bold leaps in what I stated, but I also assume you’re perfectly fine if I sit here and use Nadu to take 30 min turns.
There’s no win con, just Nadu and cards that shuffle my hand and graveyard back together.
Dear EDH RC, PLEASE ban more cards. You're the only bulwark to the ceiling of degeneracy possible at a random LGS. Power scale is too subjective, and that's not accounting for intentional deception. We're all tired of arguments about who's deck is sweatier. We all want to be told what's not acceptable. We all want half to two thirds of the "designed to be forever EDH staples" cards banned. Just do it.
Agree
"These cards aren't fun."
That's your opinion, and your job to work around. If you don't like playing MtG, why are you playing MtG?
Has to be the worst eh channel I've ever come across.
If you want more cards banned because you don’t enjoy interacting with them, then you don’t like MTG.
True. From now on we should all play Shahrazad loop decks, and if you don’t like it, it’s because you hate mtg.
@@liberty2087 👍😀
We all know no one wants to sit and watch the stax prison player hide behind humility/counterspells. Taking 8 minute turns, digging for thassa's oracle, as the only win condition in their entire 99. I for one came to commander partially to get away from those "I win if you can't play decks". I can't stop you from overuse of super busted stax. But I'm going to talk to you like I would any Grief player in modern. You are a sweaty basement timmy.
I’m not really a fan of board game magic. nobody else likes any resource interaction but me. This whole side of every color is pseudo banned by folks who don’t even understand 60 cards base magic. This format was supposed to be nothing. It’s a pain man.
no one cares about what you think, resource destruction is cancer.
The rules for edh are clearly defined. If you want to change the rules then go impose random arbitrary rules on your play group. We'll be over here using proxies, actually playing the game as intended while you guys bitch and moan about power levels and salty cards in Cedh (Casual commander) as normal commander includes cards like dark ritual etc. play by the rules and admit you "casual gamers" are the ones trying to change the rules, not us normal commander players who CBA with a bs struggle session before every single game.
This is honestly a horrible take, commander is such a bad format
You realize that it's the only format that is vintage format that doesn't just run multiple copies of the most broken cards in all history. I'd rather combo every day rather than deal with infinite turn vintage standard. It's also becoming the largest format in magic because of how broken running four copies of a single card can be in a deck nearly half the size.
Fortunately, you don’t have to play it ;)
The people complaining about rule zero being a bad thing are the same people who pretend theyre fine with getting all their lands destoryed and then hit with a stasis.
I fight through stax all the time. It's truly not that big of a deal assuming your mana curve doesn't start at 3+ (and if it does, you literally deserve to be staxxed out).