1967 Turbo Camaro - GM HEI Large Cap Distributor Timing Control with Holley Sniper EFI
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- Опубліковано 2 лют 2018
- Complete instructional video on how to modify and install your GM HEI Large Cap Distributor with 4 pin module for use with the Holley Sniper EFI System. I apologize for the volume changes, not proud of it. If you don't already have a Sniper EFI System or need parts for this project speak with Chris @ EFISystemPro.com and he'll get you going. I bought the parts below elsewhere but I hadn't found EFI System Pro yet.
VIDEO INDEX:
1:08 - Special Thanks Speech (Riveting!)
2:28 - Parts Introduction
5:01 - Locked Out Mechanical Advance
6:18 - Replace Vac Canister with Manual Knob
7:54 - Establishing Reference Angle / Timing
12:54 - Phasing the Rotor
16:00 - Wiring the Distributor
19:43 - Holley ECU/Software Setup (Minimum Signal Voltage)
27:25 - Static Timing Checks & Inductive Delay
30:32 - GM HEI Timing Control Final Test
31:42 - Conclusion - Thanks for Watching!
In this video we used a generic branded GM HEI Distributor for a Chevy 250ci Inline 6, sourced from "SkipWhite" on eBay: www.ebay.ca/itm/352082630332
We also used a MSD Module Delete Harness from Speedway Motors: www.speedwaymotors.com/MSD-88...
...and their GM HEI manual adjustment knob: www.speedwaymotors.com/HEI-Ex...
You could use a spare HEI cap (with holes drilled below the brass wire terminals) but even though one was seen in the video, it wasn't needed as the SpeedWay adjustment knob made it so easy.
That's it for new parts. The Holley Sniper EFI system was purchased from EFISystemPro.com a few months ago and seems to run our Large Cap Distributor for timing control perfectly.
Check out TurboCamaro.ca for extensive detail on HEI timing control and anything else relevant to this project.
A special thanks to Ethan Meixsell for providing all the music. His work is fantastic, check it out at www.ethanmeixsell.com.
Thanks for watching! - Авто та транспорт
Just wanted to tell you that you'r video help me figure out my timing with the Holley efi. I'm running a ford 300 and no one makes parts to link up with the Holley system. I got 2000 miles on your system thanks again. 😃👍👍👍👍👍
I'm glad it worked out for you. It's great to have an alternative that works while avoiding expensive hard to find parts. Thanks for watching!
Hey man, how is the drivability on the 300 after you’ve locked out the HEI? I’m doing the exact same thing on my truck now
Thanks for making this. You gave me the confidence to go out and buy and mod an HEI for my AMC 304. I placed the coil driver INSIDE the HEI housing to minimize wiring. Mag pickup, +12v and points wires only going to the distributor. Runs great. Holley told me I needed a CD box and MSD Distributor (they dont make an AMC dual sync) for my 2bbl Sniper, but this mod saved me hundreds!
That's a great idea to stash the driver in the cap. Only concern is have would be interference (RFI) from it on your magnetic pickup. Obviously its not an issue if you have it running great. I've heard so many people having issues with RFI I was fairly conservative with the install to prevent it. It saved me a ton of money as well. Nice work!
Awesome, didn't know you could do that with an HEI.
I'll get the Holley EFI going first and running properly then set up my electric fans then tackle the ignition.
Great video!
According to the video I was able to do the same thing in my jeep cj6. In line 6 242 engine and not v8 and its working so good.exactly what I was looking for. Works great for over a year
Exactly what I've been looking for, maximum info tech so informative. Thanks from Aus
Awesome videos, stumbled across the channel trying to understand how to turbo my carb’d sbc 350 in my Firebird. A lot of awesome info and content in the videos I watched! Can’t wait to see more! Keep it up!
Thanks for the feedback. Glad you're finding it useful. Still lots more videos to come.
Perfect, subscribed and I’ll be watching from here on out, thanks!
Awesome video! Worked great on my truck and way cheaper than buying there distributor.
Fantastic! I'm glad you gave it a try. I've had this running for years now and don't regret it for a second. Parts are widely available and you could revert back to stock without too much trouble. Hundreds cheaper, especially if you already have a compatible distributor.
This just helped me out alot great instructional videos
brandon cruthirds I'm glad you like them. Still more to come about Sniper EFI setup and turbo related configs. Thanks for watching.
Yea I have a 306 I built for my truck in picture and I'm going with a turbo but I wasn't sure how the sniper would work with it your videos pretty much was my deciding factors to go turbo with sniper
That's great! That's pretty much why ive made these videos. Be sure to check with EFISystemPro.com as a good spot to buy as Chris offers great customer service after the fact and free shipping like all the other big names. I doubt I could have made this video without his help. If you need any help along the way let me know.
Turbo Camaro ok sounds good I appreciate it I'll probably use the dual sync just for ease of installation and I'm gonna half to buy one anyway
My biggest thing I think is going to be tuning timing and fuel for boost are u using the built in fuel regulator
Great video! I used all the same parts you did except I used a DUI cap and rotor and I had to use a msd magnet pickup extension. I have a question too. I got it hooked up and get a tach signal to the display when cranking but no spark. I also noticed that the wire colors on the HEI module delete harness (same one you got) doesn’t match up with the sniper harness. Green and purple are swapped. I couldn’t tell if yours is that way is too. I copied your ignition settings in the software too. Any ideas?? I’ve tried to turn the pickup fine tune knob either way in case my cap and rotor are not quite aligned right.
Hey, great explanation of how and why this will work. I do have a question however. You had to put a Holley coil driver inline between the sniper and the coil. I have a Fitech 30004 system. Do i need to purchase a coil driver like you did? OR is that not needed with the fitech systems?
You'd have to double check with FiTech, but my understanding is the FiTech units have the coil driver function built in. However I couldn't say if they all do by default, or only on specific models. I have heard this method will work with a FiTech though, so your future is bright 👍
I see this video is a few years old now. You would think Holley would develop an HEI conversion kit for those of us who don't have ordinary cars with the option of getting a fancy dual-sync distributor. I will be doing the conversion on my 1979 International Scout. Mostly because I want to use the rev limiter function offered by the Holley Sniper EFI. I have a very low redline of less than 4000 RPM and I want to ensure I don't over-rev the engine. Thanks for the comprehensive video!
I agree. I wondered if I was wasting my time with this video as it seemed like a no brainer to produce a kit for this, and I thought this process would be "phased" out for a cheap Holley kit. Unfortunately they just keep releasing dual syncs that cost a fortune and aren't any better than working with what we already have. Either way, thanks for watching and good luck on your project!
Awesome video, I think I understand what was going on at about the 19:47 mark through the software point, but where did you come up with the voltage rating? Also I have a 6al box, so I should only have to remove my existing yellow wire and use the coil drive wire from the msd box correct?
+Benjamin Leibecki the minimum signal voltage defaults to 0, and Holley recommends a .35 default so injury increased mine to .65 to ensure a clean trigger signal. I ended up with a .195 inductive delay, but honestly their was little change get between .130 and .195. As far as wiring that sounds right, it's exactly the same as hooking up an MSD distributor as far as which wires, and definitly don't use the yellow wire.
forgive me for asking a dumb question but do you have to have the holley coil driver? or can you use the module?
🤪 a really good video, really detailed, and I got to tell you, your alternator is going to squeal like a sumbitch. There's almost zero v-belt contact patch on that pulley. Yeah, you got to go around that pulley at least a third of the way around that pulley, to have that alternator function at all.
Glad you found the video helpful. Good eyes on the alternator belt. I had some charging issues (as you predicted) and have added a 2nd belt just for the alternator and it's great now. Never had any squealing but definitely intermittent low voltage at the time. Thanks for commenting!
Currently trying this on my 72 Oldsmobile 455. I had to make some modifications to the phasing fixture to fit. What I'm curious to know is if you're purple and green wires from the MSD delete line up with the Holley sniper efi harness. Mine are actually switched and both Holley and MSD couldn't tell me the reasoning why
Hey, you caught me in the garage so the answer is gonna be quick. My sniper harness is reversed from the MSD delete. The Snipers purple wire feeds to the MSD's green and The Sniper Green goes to purple on the MSD. I suspect it's a simple mistake on one of their parts, but you could pop the pin on one of them and reverse it. My engine has been running for years like this without issue. Enjoy!
@@TurboCamaro67 thank you so much for checking. I'll leave it as is for now
Again, awesome video, I do have 2 quick questions though. I am running an msd6al ignition box with my hei, so should I select cd box, or magnetic in the software. Next question is on the 15* static timing, should I be using an adjustable timing light set at 15* and looking for 0* on the balancer, or should the timing light be at 0* and I look for 0* while cranking? Sorry for the long post but I’m a little lost on the timing part
Hey, glad you enjoy the videos. I haven't used a CD box with the Sniper before but, my understanding is you'll choose "CD Box" to use the system without timing control. Once you know it all works you'll change it to "Magnetic" and use it with timing control. If your using 15°, you'll set the timing to 15° (timing mark on the balancer typically 'left' of your 0° tab. Then with your light set to 15°, you'll see the timing mark at 0°. As a confirmation, If you set the light to 0° you'll see the balancer mark slide to where you originally set it to the 'left' of the 0° tab.
I should mention, the 'left' remark is for clockwise rotating engines. It would be the opposite on counterclockwise engines.
I have a sniper set up on my Suzuki samurai and I want to add the timing control. The stock distributor uses a magnetic pickup. Do you think it would work? Do I need to bypass the factory module like you did? The phasing looks like it will be easy. Thank you.
I'm not knowledgeable about your specific application, but in theory it should work for virtually any vehicle with a similar HEI style distributor. It's a simple setup to use a stock distributor once you wrap your head around it. Unfortunately I just don't know if your module will bypass the same as the GM one I used.
So if i lock out the hei that i have do i rotate the engine to tdc at zero or 34 degrees before tdc
Sorry for the delay, you want your TDC on the compression stroke to occur at your reference angle. In the video at about 8:30 I talk about this being at my chosen angle, which was 45°. From there you want to ensure your distributors sensor is phased around your engines peak timing, which will vary from 25-38° depending on your engine configuration. I hope I was still able to help and it makes some sense.
I know this is an older video, but I wanted to ask if you are still using and still happy with using the HEI distributor? We have a Sniper and a HEI/Ford hybrid distributor in my son's 1966 Mustang with a swapped 1990 5.0. If done correctly, will this give him the economy of a vacuum advance setup? Thanks.
I'm still very happy with the locked out and Sniper controlled HEI distributor. It's really never given me any trouble and seems to work flawlessly. Having the sniper control your timing, with a proper timing map, will give you the same, or better fuel savings as a vacuum advance setup. Not to mention you can monitor your timing in real time with the hand held controller and really fine tune the map for even more efficiency and savings. Your Mustang project sounds great!
So i'm trying to do this on my 1975 vette with an 1986/96 (there's a lot of mismatched parts, don't ask me I didn't build it) 350ci, but I see an issue. I noticed on the 6 cylinder caps, they have larger terminals, and smaller terminals on the 8 cylinder caps. I understand that the vacuum advance works by essentially moving the reluctor points, which pretty much works the same way as electronic control by delaying the signal, which means I should still be able to have it work. Problem is, that's only about 13-14 degrees of timing control. I'm wondering if I can even run 30 ish degrees of timing control with the small pins in the cap, or if it's pointless. Also, if that won't work, do you think it would be possible to rob the terminals from a 6 cylinder cap and modify an 8 cyl cap to house them?
Hey, I've never had the opportunity to try setting up HEI timing control on a V8, so I can't say for certain that it works. However, I expect the cap is smaller, and the internals are also smaller, thus not really changing the method. You'll still be locking it out, dropping it in toward Cy #1 on compression stroke as you normally would, setting a 47°ish reference angle and inputting it in the software before static tests. You just need to be able to dial in the angle to ensure proper rotor to cap terminal alignment, which may require an adjustable rotor or the speedway knob that I used. I don't believe the cap or terminal size will affect you much. Obviously the stock motor csn archive good spark with those parts, so if set right, electronic timing should work just as good.
Igniter vs Points distributor vs HEI
I have a 1990 Lincoln Town with the Windsor V8. Looking for tune-up advice, how to get the best fuel efficiency. upgrading does sound like less maintenance but questioning ROI Return On Investment? btw the car has sat for 8 years and running well on warm days. but if I don't let it warm up 20* F or colder and try to drive off after 10 min it seems rough until it gets to operating temp. also after 45 to 1hr idle to op temp. it will kill the motor most of the time when I change gears R or D. I haven't noticed during warmer days dying during gear change but I have only had it for three weeks.
Sounds like a professional carburator and timing tune up is in order, maybe even a carb rebuild. A new HEI system could resolve some of what you're dealing with, but it won't be less work or cheaper than just tuning what you have. As far as return on investment, you can always swap to an EFI system, then swap the carb back on if you sell. The money you spend on the EFI system can be more efficient than a properly tuned carburator, but the cost is mostly for the computer learning function and lack of physical tuning. The sniper EFI system still requires digital tuning for a lot of functions, but would probably work better out of the box than what you have as it is, but at a cost. Their are a hundred videos on how to rebuild, jet and tune a carb as well as timing, but I don't know which is better for you. If you love the car and have no intention to sell it, I support the switch to EFI.
Will this work on a older Chrysler mag pickup ignition if I lock it out?
Would I just use the coil driver from the sniper kit instead of the chrome cdi box?
Thanks.
Maybe... Probably? It should work as the tech is the same. Once you lockout the advance and use the coil driver the only part you need to figure out is the phasing. I just used a cheap eBay dizzy so almost anything can work if setup right.
Turbo Camaro Thanks,
You sure have some excellent vids posted and I’m working my way through them.
Worst case I found an HEI for mopars priced @ $69 plus the speedway motors timing adjustor for $22 on ebay.
Not sure Ive got enough room between engine and firewall for bug cap so will have to measure first.
Thanks again, I’m about to follow your vids step by step to upgrade software and reset my VE/ timing. tables
@@TheProchargedmopar sounds great. Yeah I've only ever done this on this car so I can't really say what will work and what won't. From what I hear, Holly won't help with any troubleshooting with it either. Works great for me. Just don't forget the Minimum Signal Voltage setting as it can only be done in the computer software. I look forward to hearing how it went.
Turbo Camaro That’s why we have you!!!
Hehe 😉
I bought the cable for laptop tuning with the kit. Still need to install new exhaust gaskets and O2 sensor.
Been driving it open loop so far with minor cold start adjustments from handheld. Base map has been surprisingly close on my Ford 390 FE where the sniper currently resides. 😆
Yeah it seems to do a great job with learning the fuel table. My warm up still isn't perfect but I've been meaning it out lots so it just takes a little trial and error.
A couple of more questions...
At 16:30 you say the wire that comes up into your distributor is a gray wire that comes from the coil driver. You then say that the wire in the distributor harness (yellow) goes up to the connector on the cap and jumps over to the tachometer out terminal (which you did not use because you did not have the correct isolating connector). Are you saying that if you have the correct GM style connector, you can connect the gray coil driver to that terminal? As I have my son's car set up now, I use that terminal for the coil input (-) yellow (from the Sniper harness). So, I do not need the yellow wire for the tachometer signal any longer and this terminal on the distributor can be used for the gray coil driver wire?
Are the large terminal (internal contact) distributor caps only for 6-cylinder vehicles? I have never seen one for an 8 cylinder.
When you get into the programming part of your video, your volume goes very low. Is there any way you could boost the volume in that section or copy that section and make a second video with the volume boosted? I am unable to hear it on my phone but I can with headphones on my PC. Just a FYI. Your video and your comments have been very helpful. Thanks.
I'm not sure about the size of the pickups between 6-8 cylinder engines. I guess I'm not sure I've seen pickups like these on anything but this cap, but I've only ever had this cap for this distributor so I can't really comment.
Take a look at the cars site www.turbocamaro.com and click on the build sheet and read the Holley Sniper EFI article. I wrote detailed instructions on the entire process including programming and I saved an EFI file there too. If you're still uncertain, I'll dust off my memory and try to answer.
Hey again, I had a chance to re-watch the video at that point and follow what you said, and... Yes. You can hook up the grey coil driver wire to your unused yellow wire cap terminal. Perhaps mock it up for a test run before you splice any wires in case colors are different,or your module had a different internal setup than mine. However the same spot on the distributor cap should work universally.
So I’m a bit confused with phasing (surprising I know) if the pickup, reluctor, and cap points are aligned at 45* at the crank (10* before your max of 35*) won’t it be attempting to spark at 45* before tdc? What brings the spark back into the 35* ignition range?
Yeah the phasing is a bit confusing for sure. Took me a while to wrap my head around it too. Essentially, you are intentuslly setting a specific higher advanced angle (45°) so that you can provide that reference angle to the Sniper so it knows that exact angle. It it knows that spot on the rotor is 45° then the Sniper software can calculate the amount of delay required to make it be 40°, 35°, 32°, 30°, 28° or whatever lower timing you have the Sniper software tuned at. Its simply retarding the timing back from 45° (or whatever reference angle you use) to make it the desired timing. Your goal is to establish that angle for the Sniper, while ensuring the 5-40° rotor curve will float around the cap terminals. That make sense?
Maybe. Lol so the only thing that needs to be aligned at the reference angle is the reluctor. Then the rotor needs to be aligned at the total timing angle? And yours just happened to be one and the same?
Yes, the reluctor needs to be as perfectly aligned as possible while at your designated reference angle that is above your maximum timing angle. I was pretty lucky as my cap has wider terminal contacts than some, and the °45 angle I went with worked well for phasing the rotor to the cap. I belive I made a slight adjustment using the fancy adjustment knob to align the reluctor right at 45°. The people I've been in contact with have been successful with this method using original GM parts and aftermarket distributors like mine. The theory is GM designed the cap and rotors to be properly phased in the normal timing angles of 10-36° as if they wernt, all the cars would run poorly. It seems complicated, but the hardest part is making sure you've picked a reference angle above your max timing where the reluctor lines up. You could easily turn the engine slightly either way and just use whatever angle is actually lined up. Might be 41° or 43° but as long as it's accurate and the rotor lines up with the terminals on the cap in your normal timing range the software can do the rest.
Got it. Thank you so much! Love your build!
Really interesting.
Have you thought about switching to a clutch fan, instead of the fixed power killer metal fan?
I have thought about it. I've actually since switched over to a fixed poly fan with 6 blades. Increased cooling and decreased some of the power loss due to the weight drop. However, electric fans would be great in combo with the Holley EFI system.
Thanks for this - one of the best sources of how to set up EFI timing control with a magnetic triggered distributor. I'm wondering if you wrestled with the idea of setting up timing control with a Hall Effect-triggered distributor, such as a points-type with a Pertronix Ignitor I conversion. If so, what led you to decide against it? If it's just because you wanted to use parts you already had, I can totally relate. There aren't distributors on the market that allow plug-and-play timing control for my engine, so I'm having to figure out my own way of doing too, so thanks again.
It was completely a matter of using what I already had. It's a $75 eBay distributorb and I wanted to make it work. I actually still have the original points distributor but didn't want to gut it for this project. Plus using a cheap aftermarket one made the project duplicatable.
@@TurboCamaro67 Thanks. One of the common themes I've found in my search for ideas is that magnetic pickups are susceptible to electromagnetic interference, making Hall Effect triggering preferable for this reason. However, millions of cars used the magnetic trigger HEI distributor you're using, and I've never heard about EMI-related issues with those. Have you had to overcome any EMI-related problems with your setup?
I had no magnetic interference issues. I had bought some copper coated tape with the thought of wrapping wires in and around the distributor but due to the lack of issues, I didn't waste my time. My research at the time made fee like a lot of the issues stemmed from guys running big bundles of power cables together and parallel to other signal wires. I avoided bunching power wires with anything other than power wires and I kept my distributor wires away from everything else. Have you found anyone suggesting the hall effect dizzy won't work for this, or is it just a concern that you haven't found anyone who's tried it?
@@TurboCamaro67 No, actually the opposite. Holley forums point to the most direct, Holley-supported solutions for timing control, which are their Hall Effect Hyperspark and Dual Sync distributors (neither of which has a version for the big Cadillac V8 I'm building). The less adventurous people putting a Sniper on their SBC or BBC can just grab one of those distributors and be on their way and accept the prevailing opinion that magnetic triggering should be feared because of the potential influence of EMI on digital controls. Those of us who either don't want to buy more expensive parts or don't have off-the-shelf solutions available for our cars appreciate you demystifying magnetic triggering for Sniper timing control on those forums and this video, so thanks again.
No problem. Since I completed the HEI mod they've gone ahead and made an inline 6 dual sync so if I was patient enough, I could have gone that route too. However I'm no sheep, and I prefer the same result at 20% of the cost. Good luck on your build!
Have they gotten lax? I received no wiring connectors with my holley sniper efi master kit.
I don't know, I had a nice supply of them... But that was over 2 years ago now. The connectors were a nice touch too.
@@TurboCamaro67 great video btw I plan to do this with my hei distributor so I can control it instead of buying hyperspark. I know I've seen other vids where people said they got new studs for the intake as well as a fuel pump blockoff plate in their kits as well, but those too were older videos.
Wow, that's a shame they're not including those. The extra pieces were what really sold me on the kit. Thanks for watching my vids!
hey man, we've spoken before. i have a queastion. if you mechanically lock out the distributor from advancing, how does the timing advance? even if the sniper controlled when the signal comes in, the distributor/ rotor isnt lined up.
im trying to understand.
When you lock out the distributor, you line everything up at a pre-determined "reference angle" that is AHEAD/advanced of real time. Then you provide that reference angle to the sniper software and it controls timing by simply firing the spark the designated number of milliseconds required after the reference angle to be fired at the desired degree of timing. So it's really just delaying the spark in order to control timing. For instance, if you give it a reference angle of 45° and then tell it to idle the engine at 15°. It waits for the 45° to come around on the crank, then delays the time it takes to have 30° pass on the crank and then fires the coil. If you want it to be 36° at wide open throttle, it'll have to act quicker as it only needs to delay 9° before it fires. Tons of calculations for it to do, but it's very accurate and simple once you wrap your head around it.
@@TurboCamaro67 so itll spark before or after the rotor/cap line up and just arc at the appropriate time?
It'll fire the spark at exactly the desired timing degree, and because you aligned the rotor with the reluctor and a spark plug terminal when you setup the reference angle, it will be near the spark terminal every time it fires.
@@TurboCamaro67 well, thats a fixed timing then. unless you move the rotor or the whole distributor since you bolted the advance mechanism together. thats what im not getting. all the mechanics are bolted together non mobile.
Yes, the rotor is fixed because the advance is locked out. But the spark is still fired at the desired degree. If you didn't lock out the mechanical advance it would throe off the reference angle and the snipers computer timing wouldn't be accurate.
can this be done with the dissy in the engine? I cant get mine out without pulling the engine and i really dont want to do that
It certainly could. You just need to be able to lout out the top portion. If you can accomplish that without pulling the distributor you'd be able to rig up the cable/sensor I'm sure. Obviously easier if it's out, but if you can get at it good enough you should be fine.
@@TurboCamaro67 thankyou! the sniper efi can also work without dissy input to control timing right? if i dont do it?
Unfortunately, the sniper requires input from the sensor in the distributor to know when to fire the spark to control timing. You can setup the sniper to run the engine but keep the distributor set to mechanically control timing as it was originally designed to do. Once your satisfied with the fuel setup on the sniper, you can add timing control later.
@@TurboCamaro67 awesome thanks!
So, hopefully, you reply to this, but can you use any of the triangles? It also has 2 half triangles. Can you use one of those?
Yes, if you are installing the distributor at say, 45° like me, you can "dial" it to the closest triangles that line up. I'm not sure about these half triangles you speak of. If you go to the TurboCamaro website, and email me directly with a photo I can try to help. Of if you have the part # for the distributor?
Wow, that is a REALLY good video. Thank you.
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching.
Your crank signal wires (green and purple) don't match on the connector you have green going to purple and purple going to green was that intended? I'm doing the same set up and was scratching my head at it
Yes, for whatever reason the colors are not coordinated correctly. The instruction I reviewed at the time confirmed you had to swap the wires to have it function correctly. Unfortunately it's been years now and I can't recall the rationale for it.
Sounds good thanks. Was the instructions you followed from efipros?
@@hoythenderson8827 Could have been, their wasn't much available on timing control with a large cap dizzy. I know it made sense at the time but I'm not certain about the source.
@@TurboCamaro67 did you have bad rf with your system?
So we're does the coil neg. Hook up on the other end ( that jumper wire)
The other spade terminal (coil negative) is not used in my configuration. The yellow wire coming off the module is feeding the negative side from the smaller connector just below the unused one. Nothing is required on the larger negative connector. I used to run an analog tachometer off that spade but now run it off the Sniper harness.
@@TurboCamaro67 I'm trying to do the same thing for my ACES EFI I bought the MSD ICM delete wire and the adjustable knob I'm trying to figure out how to signal the coil , gonna make the locking plate today
@@davidturner6397 I don't know anything about your EFI system, but the Sniper has the coil driver, which is fired by the Sniper EFI system once it receives a "trigger" from the sensor in the distributor. If your system has something similar, it should work to fire your coil with the right setup. Happy to help with any other questions.
Awesome video but I have a strange question for you. When setting my static timing I disconnected the fuel pump relay and confirmed that the fuel pump was not running however the engine still starts and runs for a few seconds then shuts off. No matter how many times I tried it the engine would continue to start which shouldn't happen without fuel pressure. Do you know if there are any seals that could be leaking allowing the engine vacuum to pull fuel into the engine? I've looked at every diagram I can find but can't seem to find the information I'm looking for
Interesting question. I assume you have the Holley Sniper, and if so I'm still not certain. It's possible you're getting a few drips pulled through the injectors, or just residual from within the fuel line. I'd be sure it wouldn't stay running without pressure, but having a couple drops of fluid in the intake may be enough to get it started. I'd bet that eventually, 4-5 starts in, it will become difficult to start or it won't start at all. If it's preventing you from setting the static timing, you could always pull the plug wires off the plugs (not the cap) and with them tucked away safley to the side, crank it and get it done. Just don't zap yourself with a loose lead 😉
@@TurboCamaro67 thank you for getting back to me so quickly. Yes getting zapped really sucks. I thought the same thing that it may be some residual fuel allowing it to start but after attempting it almost a dozen times and it starting every time really started confusing me. I even used my remote starter and cranked it over for 30 seconds with the ignition off but as soon as I turned the ignition on it started again but will only run for about 4 seconds and then shuts off. This system has been kicking my butt. It is almost as if it is getting fuel around the Injector seals. I've seen the injector seals leak on the Holley two-barrel throttle body injectors but I'm not very familiar with this sniper kit
Unfortunately I'm not aware of any part of the system designed to intentionally allow fuel through, but it does seem that way. I'd consider doing it my way (leads off the plugs) and see how it goes. If it starts and runs fine otherwise and the timing is working I'd not be too worried about it. It is odd though. Hmm, how you considered pulling the relay and the fuel line to the Sniper?
@@TurboCamaro67 that was actually the first thing I did was pull the relay and remove the fuel line from the throttle body. It's almost as if the vacuum created by the engine is pulling fuel somehow because with the fuel lines disconnected it won't start, and if it did then I would definitely have one hell of a problem LOL. I will be working on it some more tomorrow, with a little bit of luck I will finally get this thing running
Very interesting.. well with both of those things pulled you should be able to get the static timing done and at least move on from there. Perhaps the issue will present itself again and be easier to solve at that time
Hi Turbo! Are you still happy with this conversion? I'm about to do this, with the help of your video, but I don't want to compromise any reliability at all. It still works well? Thanks again!
Funny you ask this now. I was doing some more tuning on the EFI the other day, and decided to check the timing accuracy with a couple different static timing settings. With zero maintenance since this video it still works perfectly. I laugh at the thought of doing anything but this simple HEI mod to obtain electronic controlled timing. Good luck with the setup and let me know if you need any clarification.
Thank you so much. I have the Sniper in my 4x4, that I take out offroading on long trips in the desert, so total reliability is my goal. Do you see going this route as decreasing reliability at all, or maybe even improving it? A stock HEI distributor seems pretty solid, and parts are readily available, so I'm kind of torn on whether to mess with it. Thanks again!
@@brianm7879 I honestly feel it's the best possible method of obtaining electronic timing via Sniper EFI. As long as you don't experience any radio interfence, I don't see any disadvantage. Cheap, easy mod, and parts, like you said, can be found anywhere. It just works.
@@TurboCamaro67 Once again, much appreciated! I'll post back results when I'm done.
Would one be able to use the super sniper 650 kit and still be able to do this to the distributor for the ecu self learn to be able to adjust the timing while under boost.
As well as no boost. Thinking on runing it completely stock for a while to get a feel for how it is stock then swap to a different manifold and split headers to a muffler then back to duals. Get a feel for the holly sniper with headers on stock engine no port lumps, cam or roller rockers or big valves. Then later on rebuilding the engine with better rods an pistons nothing crazy. Keep in mind all of this is for a 67 c10 something different. Has a muncie 3 speed and 3.73 gears. So its definitely going to be interesting seeing what it does and how each thing changes the torque and hp curve.
I'd say I, and Holley would recommend this method. It's good to upgrade one thing at a time and ensure components function seperatley before doing everything and then troubleshooting to figure out what the issue is. Plus, the sniper can go on any engine so if you decide to go a different direction, it's not like you're throwing money away on it. As for timing control with the Super Sniper, I can't be sure. Mine is the regular version with the external coil driver. My understanding is they put the driver inside the Super Sniper but who knows if it's the same device or how it will function. If I were to take a guess, I'd say it will probably work if hooked up the same way. I just can't see why it wouldn't. I'd spend a bit of time figuring out if it has been done before, or the difference between how you hookup the distributor from one Sniper to the other, as If they're the same wiring and nothing seems different, then the chances are good it will work. If the Super Sniper has extra wires or demands a specific sensor or somthing odd, you might be setup for disappointment. Keep in mind Holley doesn't support this method as its a slightly complex DIY and avoids purchasing their expensive distributor. You won't get help from them.
I personally havent found anyone that's done the super sniper everything looks to be the same but that doesn't mean it is setup the exact same. 250 bucks for the hyperspark distributor doesnt really seem that much vs spending time on a HEI distributor just to get it to adjust the timing as needed.
Yeah if you don't already have an HEI and they make a compatible distributor for your engine then that's probably the way to go. I had my HEI already and it was only $45US so more of a budget approach. Plus they didn't (don't?) make a compatible dizzy at the time.
Ahhh okay I see why you did it now that makes sense. I am glad to hear that they just started making a compatible distributor for the L6 250 engines.
Are u still running this setup
Yes, not once have I had problems with it. Once I got through the install and initial setup it has been a perfect solution to timing control. Besides the EFI system, this method doesn't introduce anything that can fail, it's a hollowed out distributor with a single sensor. The only questionable part is the origin of the distributor, but you can use an OEM one of you want, I just did it on the cheap and it works well.
Confused by the last part. You are showing inductive delay adjustments because the timing advances upon applying throttle; but isn't that what is supposed to happen since you have total timing set at 36 degrees?
Yeah I should have spent a few seconds explaining the Inductive Delay. The total timing was set to 36° but I had the timing set as a static number there and when the vehicle is revved, it should hold the static number. I was adjusting the Inductive Delay to "sync" the electronic timing across all RPMs.
@@TurboCamaro67 Thanks for the answer. I can't figure out how you are using your sniper desktop software to tune the ECU directly? I do not see a usb port on my handheld.. Trying to do this by tuning on the handheld and getting backfire thru intake.
I am also using a msd box, but selected "magnetic" for ignition because that is the only option that allows you to program base/total timing. Thanks in advance
The laptop requires a seperate cable that you plug into the throttle body instead of the handheld. You can buy a Y cable to run both simultaneously but it's not a Holley option yet.
I didn't use an ignition box but it should be a similar setup. Did you get the Sniper running without timing first or are you doing it all at once? Be sure your reference angle is accurate and in the compression stroke or it'll be 180° off and backfire forever. These sort of issues usually end up being something silly.
@@traceytoolsllc813 u can use the SD card. Save tune on card then insert card into laptop open it and make adjustments. Never saw any y cable
At 14:39 if you can't fit the speedway timing knob could you just rotate the distributor
Do you have the part numbers for the coil driver and the msd module delete wiring harness bud.
Is great to see this on a 6cyl, every internet search I do of this great information you cover is normally for v8s. @turbocamaro
Hey, glad you like the content. Unfortunately rotating the distributor doesn't adjust the sensor to rotor independently, thus potentially needing the knob to fine tune the rotor phasing. The coil driver came with my EFI kit but it's part number is Holley 556-150 and the delete harness is a GM HEI module cable, MSD 8861.
@@TurboCamaro67 ah yes thanks for confirming that , I've found I can cut the shaft down and change the gear drive cog on a hei unit from a jeep amc 232 or 258 to fit my gmh 6cyl 202ci motor. As no one makes a large cap hei for my motor. A jeep hei should be the same process with locking out and modding as your Chevy hei hey ? Thanks
Yeah the tech should be the same and it's mostly mechanical with a sensor so as long as the gear and shaft are right it should work. Good luck with it for sure.
@@TurboCamaro67 great will see how it turns out. Thanks again
i wonder if i could use the sniper coil driver to convert my hei for my FITECH
from Al now that's a fun idea. I couldn't say if that would work but I'd be interested to know if it does.
or i wonder if i can combine a computer controlled large cap hei out of a cadillac with my pontiac hei
from Al yeah I really have no idea, I bought the GM large cap HEI used in this video for a low price, and if you can get a coil driver or something similar for the Fitech you might have a more predictable result.
so your large cap distributor is nothing special? Did your kit come with the coil driver?
from Al yes, my kit from EFISystemPro came with the driver. I believe they all do now. My large cap distributor is just a coil in large cap that they used from the late 70's to 90's. eBay has them cheap for like $70.
I'm confused, if the rotor is fixed, and the reluctor is fixed, how is the timing being controlled? If nothing moves?
The distrivutor is tuned to a specific ADVANCED reference point. The whole thing is advanced (forward in time) to a specific reference angle and you give that angle to the Holley Sniper system. Then the Holly Sniper controls the timing by delaying the spark exactly the right amount to coincide with the desired timing. Imagine the Holley Sniper being set ahead of everything and all it does is wait for the distributor to catch up and then fires the coil at that moment. Normally the distributor tells the coil to fire the moment it reaches the desired timing, now it's just a reference device to tell the sniper how long to wait to fire the coil. It's a weird concept to wrap your head around.
@@TurboCamaro67 it's also relying on the spark to jump further between the rotor and cap since at lower rpm the spark being retarded, would be a bigger gap between the rotor and cap since the rotor is no longer moving closer to the pins on the cap. Did I get that right?
This is true except I discussed "phasing" the rotor in the video. Essentially you are setting it up and adjusting so that the rotor will be in the best spot when the spark is expected. I installed that adjustable knob so that things could be moved in case the rotor was going to be out of alignment with the cap, but in the video it worked out that it lined up on the first try. So the spark jump distance is a concern, but if setup correctly, is not an issue with this timing method. I'd you were to buy a special Holley distributor to use for timing control with the sniper, these issues would be eliminated. The advantage is price and using more stock parts, if those things are important to you.
@@TurboCamaro67 I'm not sure you're understanding me.. and I just want to understand this better.. basically with the reluctor.. (because both are now solid) static and the rotor static.. the only way i can see advance happening is that the ICU is telling the coil to fire when it wants.. however that doesn't physically move the rotor for timing nor does it move the reluctor because neither move.. at any time.. therefore.. when the coil fires it's jumping a longer arc at times to the pin on the cap.. because nothing changes the rotor position.. Unlike the stock setup where the coil fires when the reluctor tells it to.. it has it's own vacuum advance and the rotor has mechanical advance.. Because you've set it up to 45 degrees my guess that is when the rotor would be at the pin.. when the timing is retarded.. the gap between the pin and the rotor would have more distance and possibly a weaker spark.. because the coil is firing.. late to the pin because again.. the pin and the rotor no longer time the spark.. am I correct?
@@TurboCamaro67 To answer my own question.. I guess the reason why the rotor or reluctor doesn't have to move is because the rotor contact and the pin on the cap aren't finite points.. they are wide.. which means that there could be as much as 50 degrees when the rotor gets to the pin and when it leaves the pin.. because even though the engine balancer moves 45 degrees the rotor doesn't.. thanks a bunch you made me think about this.. and in essence.. why buy an expensive dumb distributor from msd or holley.. when really they aren't doing much.. the only question really is .. RF noise from the HEI.. distributor with the reluctor... yours seems to work fine though..
you said a few times this is a daily driver.. and what I like about this is it's a 3 year old video.. how is everything working? any fails left you beside the road with the sniper?
No fails related to the Sniper or it's timing control whatsoever. However I've had bottom end trouble for a while and figured out my machine shop misread the cam card. So, the car is off the road while I deal with that and other life issues. The sniper has been one of the best investments in the car. The Retrosound stereo has been great too!
@@TurboCamaro67 I'm so happy to hear that. Based on your video and testimony I think I'll go with the sniper quadrajet, I think It makes sense to use the hei as well since parts are so easy to get. How many kms do you have on your sniper?
The sniper is a solid unit for sure. I don't have any real records to track the exact kilometers, but my best guess is between 11-12000km's (approx 7000 miles). My commutes have remained short even though I've moved several times since my last video.
Thank you for the video!
I have a Ford 300 I6 that has a PerformanceDistributors aftermarket HEI distributor and am looking for Holley Sniper timing control. I'm going to dive in and give this a try.
And.... success.
Thank you again.
@@milesaway1980 how did it work out? Ive watched a couple of your videos and we have pretty much the same set up. Is throttle response better and what did you do for max timing at cruise? My dui distributor i curved for 14 intial, 20 mechanical advanced, for 34 at 2200rpm. Vacuum gives it 9 more with a limiter plate. It doesnt ping at all. Just curious if you had to change timing drastically from your stock dui curve when going electronic with the efi.
@@colerippeon3903 For the most part, the curve is a lot the same. However, you can fine tune it MUCH MUCH more accurately. You can set the timing you want for a given RPM and cylinder pressure (vacuum) on a big table, instead of just rate of change for mechanical and vacuum advance.
Then there's extras you can do like retarding timing when you're starting it (so you can run more base timing), retarding or advancing timing for temperature, etc.
It drives very similar, but those extras made it really worth it. Plus, if you have a problem area, you just adjust the problem area.
@@milesaway1980 thats awesome. Especially being able to retard when starting. My truck looooves alot of initial for get up, but once its hot, any more than 14, itll fight the starter. Hence why im all in at 2k rpms lol. Thank you for responding. Im gonna go this route for sure in the near future.
save a lot of time and money and just get a distributor for a 88-94 chevy pick up (small cap) and the holley system will control the timing. I did this on my 69 Camaro
You bet, their are other options but for my project you'd need a straight 6 compatible distributor and have the coil in cap is a nice way to keep the bay tidy. But if you have access to good compatible OEM parts then go that route for sure.
Is this how I would set up a hal effect dizzy
This method should work on hall effect and any other HEI distributor. Note that Holley/MSD is making new distributors that don't require these sort of mods for timing control.
@@TurboCamaro67 probably not for my application 1974 triumph spitfire 1500
Hah, your probably right. However they make one for my engine now. Still a pretty penny though.
@@TurboCamaro67 yea I just bought a new distributor to . I think I read in the install manual about hooking it up to mine. They also make a 123
Dizzy for the spit bluetooth programmable. Or maybe go with the safeguard to eliminate knock on my stock dizzy
@@TurboCamaro67 I used to have a 67 rs,ss Camaro 4 speed it had a sbs
And a 4 speed muncie back in the 80s I was told it
Originally had a 396/375hp
But later found out from the current owner it was a copo 427 out of the Van Nuys assembly plant in CA.
A dealer ordered 3 all dark green metallic. The guys at classic
Industries in HB. Traced the coul
Tag but couldnt make heads or tails of
It.... I guess I should have done my homework before I sold it for $1500.00. I did get a pretty nifty
Whirlpool side by side refrigerator .
Anyways kinda glad I never new
I had a lot of fun in high school
Back 1983 my junior year
Drove it about 15 year figured it
Was someone else's turn.
Had a 68 el caminos then a 87'
Porsche Carrera 911 targa Venetian
Blue , a 92'vette and now a 74'triumph spitfire. My wife is always bitching about "why did you get rid of the Camaro"
I miss the Porsche more it was BEAUTIFUL. But have to say
This spitfire is a lot of FUN
Super easy to work/modify
Cheap parts and Italian
Lines, gorgeous car
Like a big go cart
My best memories are being young
In that Camaro though my girl looked just like Marilyn Monroe.
Been married 32 years now she's
Still pretty haha!
Good times
WOW. this would work great on the Old Pontiac OHC6 engines., which have the Chevy 230/250 as a base and are topped with the Pontiac ohc head.
Yeah, the design could be interchanged with several motors. Fun to think about all the interesting combos. I'm a big fan of seeing rare and unlikely engine builds at car shows (and online of course).
Can't hear you
Yeah, not my best camera work for sure. Tough with the engine running too.
My instruction say 15