Who's your favorite villain turned hero? Read the full essay on Comic Book Herald: www.comicbookherald.com/when-supervillains-go-good-20-heroic-character-transformations/
Venom flash Thompson and in his own legacy character an becoming mentor in the form of andi Benton the current host of the scream symbiote in her own just cancelled scream series one of marvels best in years #screamforscream
Venom(Eddie Brock) is a top ten fav comic book character of all time for me. More for the Symbiote Venom than Eddie Brock, he was a real jerk in the 90's. Nowadays I am extremely happy with Brock's character development (Cates). It's very coo to see Cap himself extend the hand to invite Eddie Brock/Venom to The Avengers.
Another great video, Matt. Oh, BTW, Eddie did go back to being a villain as Venom during the John Byrne reboot of Amazing Spider-man that happened right after the end of the 90’s clone saga and just before JMS’ run( but most people forget that because Byrne’s run was shit). Also, what would you classify Harley as these days? And Cyclops doesn’t suck, he’s just had crappy writers who forget how capable and badass he is when he’s not fixated over Jean. Which is why I like him much better with Emma. But, I’ll give you professor X. Once they revealed that he was in love with Jean( What IS it about her), I never looked at Charlie the same way again.
@Frank Castle it would considering there are a lot of elements later that contributed to the symbiote itself becoming more heroic and good natured as the series went on
I don't know, I liked his character arc in the "Crisis of Infinite Comic Commentators" storyline. I mean his redemption arc in that was touch. Who would have guess'd he'd sacrifice himself to give Linkara the time to stop the amalgamation of Comichistorian//ComicExplained, too bad the following reboot put him back to square One. Though they did hint at this character shift in the Issue "It's a Wonderful Life Matt Draper" when he had that dream sequence, but MAN the fans were upset it was a fake out.
The one that bugs me the most was Sandman. The character had a genuine and natural change of heart. Was a hero for over a decade. Then Jo Q took over and boom, mind whip
Joe Quesada the one enemy of Spider-Man more evil than Norman Osborn. The fact that One More Day was his own personal "Break up Peter and Mary Jane so I can put him with a fictional version of my daughter" fanfiction was pathetic. The fact that he wants Peter to be a permanent teenager even though him growing up, becoming an adult and having to balance adult life with his Spider-Man duties is more interesting is stupid too.
I don't think it was Joe Q who turned Sandman evil. If I recall, it happened during the John Byrne "reboot" on Spider-man, where he either forgot that Sandman was no longer a villain, or knew and did not give a fuck. Since then, Sandman has almost died twice and both times, decided to make peace with Spider-Man. I think the most recent time in Chip Zdarsky's Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, and he hasn't been seen since (that I am aware of)
dbzfan22 : It wouldn't have been the first time Byrne didn't give a f*(k about a character's established history. Part of why Sandman as a hero was so good is because it was so believable he could be redeemable. Flint Marko always seemed more greedy than really EVIL for the hell of it. Back in the early stories he came across as a guy who only saw his powers as a means to a quick buck than wanting to hurt people. With not one but two similarly powered villains created to fill his villainous boots, turning him back just seems pointlessly regressive. Especially after he'd joined the Avengers! HE WAS AN AVENGER!
It doesn’t matter if it’s Quesada, Byrne, Bendis, or whoever because the problem is the practice. The act of being like, I don’t know or care about the established/current plot, Imma do what I want, is disrespectful and most of the time, pis poor story telling. It’s great to do your own thing and change things up, but it should make sense with the larger narrative. Because of this common practice, I don’t care to read everything and don’t believe in the 616 or whatever DC is being called (Nu52/Rebirth). Because for me, every time there’s a new author it becomes a new universe. I don’t view Remender’s Venom being the same Venom Bunn had. Those are 2 different Venoms [+]
16:47 Sabretooth is a villain that should stay irredeemable IMO. Villains like Two Face, Mr Freeze, Magneto, some versions of Penguin and so on I could buy as heroes. But a heroic Sabretooth doesn't fit him to me. Just like I couldn't imagine a heroic Joker, Green Goblin, Reverse Flash, Bullseye, Victor Zsasz, Ra's Al Ghul, General Zod, Darkseid, Brainiac and the like.
They actually gave The Joker his owe series once, where he fought other Batman villains like Two-Face, the Royle Flush Gang and others. If it'd stuck (i.e. made money) we might've seen a reformed Joker. Thank goodness it tanked.
My favorite was Dent, just too bad it was too brief. Incidentally, another one I was just as disappointed was The Riddler. During that same period with Dent, Riddler lost his memory (he knew Batman's secret Identity) and became a private investigator. It was nice change of pace for the character and gave him an out from being a rather predictable villain. He even joined Batman's secret detective forum to help pool their brainpower to solve difficult crimes. He could have been a great ally that skirts the line and always be tempted to prove his villainous superiority but finds happiness from the acceptance of his peers. Alas, it was not meant to be.
Danial Duval : I've always felt The Riddler might be redeemable since reading a story from an alternate timeline, world or whatever where he'd finally killed Batman in one of his puzzle-traps and he was sad about it. He revealed to a gathering of other villains that he always respected Batman's ability to solve his riddles, secretly knowing he'd escape. Now that Batman was gone he felt lost without a worthy challenge. It reminded me of when it was revealed that Bloodshot subconsciously pulls his shots to miss Batman. I wish Dent had held on too, especially since in some stories, even as Two-Face, there are occasional glimpses of Harvey's virtues still in there somewhere.
I MEAN, WE CAN ALSO ADD TO THE LIST(EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT ENTIRELY COMICBOOK CHARACTERS) -STARSCREAM(ARMADA & IDW) -SETSUNA HIGASHI -ELLEN KUROKAWA -TOWA AKAGI -JENNIKA (IDW) -RURU AMOUR -AMANE KASAI
I'd go with Black Adam. When Jerry Ordway remade him as an honorable fallen hero who was merely manipulated by an evil host, that changed the character forever. Even though reboots have wiped away the Ordway version, his remaking of Black Adam into an anti-hero has lasted (thanks in large part to Geoff Johns further remaking him as basically DC's Doctor Doom - a foreign leader who is honorable but with an ethos that isn't compatible with modern heroes).
What about The Rogues from The Flash comics, they mostly flip flop between helping the Flash or trying to rob banks and the Trickster (the first one) reformed and joined the FBI
In the 70s and 80s, Flash was as much a counselor for the Rogues as a hero stopping them. He helped Heatwave and Doctor Alchemy reform. He saved Captain Cold from committing murder-suicide over a failed romance. And, all the Rogues famously came to his rescue against Abra Cadabra in the final issue pre-Crisis. That issue was the one that really set the stage for the core Rogues to be forever on the fence, neither good nor bad. It was Cary Bates' final contribution to the Flash.
And then Geoff John's came along and retcon the redemption of Heatwave, Piper and Trickstet. I like Geoff but sometimes he needs to leave well enough alone!
If I had a nickel for every time Venom turned sides, I would be able to buy a Snickers bar. In all seriousness, this was a great follow up to your Heroes turn evil video.
Hawkeye always intended to a hero, but he was mistaken for a villain, and it took a while for him to clear up the confusion. So that one should have an asterisk by it. There was never a point when he needed redemption.
I know I'm 9 months late but this is a fantastic video! You're right: whenever a villain becomes a hero they are often immediately switched back. Doctor Doom always should've stayed a hero. Also, you forgot about Loki.
The biggest missed opportunity in Marvel history is Red Hulk's lack of bitching facial hair! Imagine if Thunderbolt Ross hulked out and his moustache hulked out to a handle bar or mutton chops.
They turned Clayface good in early DC rebirth. It was actually a well done story. Sadly, like the Sandman before him, I don't think it stuck. But it should have. It really should have.
Yeah. I think having riddler as a sort of rival detective to batman like they did in the early 2000's was a great idea and I'm sad they reverted him to a criminal again. I also think that penguin works best in the crime boss/informant role that he filled in new batman adventures, rather than a full on supervillain.
This is the first time I didn’t get a notification for a channel I have notifications on for. Either way great episode. Interesting topic. “Underwater asshole” cracked me up for some reason.
@@birdsamora9925 I mean, there were times where he showed little to no hesitation for committing evil actions to capture Aang in Book 1 like the Kiyoshi Warriors episode. So he was bad, but certainly redeemed much much later on.
Comic writers seem to prefer to opt to make heroes into villains for really stupid reasons rather than taking the time and effort to show a character becoming a better person. It's pretty sad all in all.
I love your content dude! Amazing and fun vid. Clearly you need to read The Superior Octopus comic, because that miniseries firmly planted Otto as a hero forever in my heart
Surprised no mention of Harley Quinn, probably the most obvious example. Some others: Sandman (didn't stick but might be coming back), Rhino (didn't stick but hints of it coming back), Lizard (off and on constantly), Juggernaut (is that real?), Black Cat, Galactus (off and on, it's complicated), Vision, and probably my favorite Kaine Parker. Hm... Is this trope more common in Marvel than DC?
Ah basil Karol wasn’t always the typical clay face we think of. That was the second clay face. During the story Mud Pack, Basil takes the blood of the other 2 clay faces at the time to become more like the second. Love that story.
I'm used to you seeming like serious or like an omniscient storyteller, so when you make little jokes at the expense of comics like what you said about "bat and cat" have me dying 😂
With the Thunderbolts you could say it’s half and half. The original team members Mach(Beetle), Atlas(Power Man), and Songbird(Screaming Mimi) have left their villain life behind but Baron Zemo, Fixer, and and Techno went back with their original identities and are more villains than heroes. My favorite run of team Thunderbolts is when the ones who chose to be heroes help B List villains. Mach, Atlas, Songbird, Blizzard, Joy Stick, Radioactive Man, and Speed Demon.
He also managed to miss Black Cat (stuck, mostly {excluding that one weird period with Bendis}) and Riddler (didn't stick). Also, I have no clue if this counts, but there have also been heroic versions of Green Goblin and Hobgoblin. The problem is that neither of them were the original villains turned good, but random people taking up the mantle for heroics.
I think one of my personal favorites will always be Emma frost especially since while she may not agree with Xavier she teaches alongside him solely because she doesn't want to see young mutants grow up like she had to
Actually Matt, Hawkeye wasn't a bad guy because of money. He was jealous of Iron Man's sucess as super hero, and wanted to prove that he could be a crime fighter as well. However in his first adventure as hero, the cops thought he was thief and chased after him, resulting in his meeting with Black Widow, who seduce Clint to join her in the battle against Iron Man
Pretty ironic how a hero named Rogue stayed a hero loyal to the X-Men. In my mind, Superior Spider-Man was Otto’s real ending. What’s wrong with the new Secret Wars?
Me, finding out Morbius only has the hand suckers in the cartoon even though I really should have put that together: "My disappointment is..... immeasurable. And my day is ruined."
I prefer villains turning good more so than heroes turning bad. When heroes become evil it feels kinda forced. Meanwhile it feels like there is more care put in villains becoming good. Thats just my opinion however.
I hate what Marvel did with Superior Spider-Man... They practically "One More Day'd" Otto's entire character and flushes it down the drain... He's now back as the OG Otto Octavius... The original Otto Octavius' heroic death in the Superior Spider-Man run was amazing... his clone's run was also interesting, even if not as tightly written. Then Marvel just Mephisto'd the entire thing... it sucks...
Wow just wow, I knew some of the most well known Marvel heroes/anti-heroes were villains at first but seeing them back to back just... Damn, Marvel knows what sells don't they? It makes for more interesting stories I think.
IMO villains should only be turned good if they have redeeming qualities, if they know and care that what they've done is wrong, feel remorse for their evil actions and are willing to do whatever they have to to make up for them. And also if they can keep them interesting when they make them heroes. That's why I don't like DC's attempts at an anti heroic or completely heroic Harley Quinn. She was better as a villain.
@Frank Castle Back when she was a villain people used to root for her to see Joker for who he really was and leave him. She could have left him but stayed a villain. They didn't do that though.
The symbiote was given to "nobody" Lee Price so that Eddie could rescue them and they would work on their relationship, that is the entire framework of their story, it was to show the symbiote as an exploited person. :/
Agent Venom flash Thompson and in his own legacy character an becoming mentor in the form of andi Benton the current host of the scream symbiote in her own just cancelled scream series one of marvels best in years #screamforscream although eddies redemption is also important as well I would like to see agent venom and indeed flash get his own video and by proxy as a result a video on andi and scream
What about Captain Cold? He was always a lot more moral than other villains, refusing to hurt civilians and not using violence except absolutely necessary. When Inertia killed a Flash, the Rogues got so mad they murdered his ass. And in Forever Evil, where Lex Luthor fought the Crime Syndicate (Not Injustice League), Cold was the only other villain besides Luthor of the event that stayed on the side of good. And there is also Azrael, Bane, Deadshot, Harley Quinn, Catman, Atomic Skull, Killer Frost, Mr. Freeze, Star Sapphire and the rest of the rainbow Lantern Villains, the Suicide Squad in general (Which is weird that it wasn't mentioned as it was name dropped during the Thunderbolts segment). The video was 70% X-Men and 30% everything else.
Great video, never gonna call Namor anything other than Underwater Asshole from now on. Also, Tom King Batman run video when? You clearly have... Opinions on that. Also, would love a video on the best Batgirl, Stephanie Brown!
I’m curious how familiar you are with IDW’s Transformers comics now, because they had quite a few villains turn back and try to redeem themselves. Even characters you’d normally think would never be redeemed turned over a new leaf.
I personally prefer the Maximoff twins as X-men characters and having them be characters who switch sides depending on what is happening. I really liked them in the animated series of Evolution and WTXM. I’m not super deep in their origins and comic history but I don’t care much for them as avengers characters.
Did you ignore Christos Gage's Superior Spider-Man series...? I would say Otto was redeemed. Especially after War of the Realms. Seems like you just stopped at Clone Conspiracy
Who's your favorite villain turned hero?
Read the full essay on Comic Book Herald: www.comicbookherald.com/when-supervillains-go-good-20-heroic-character-transformations/
Venom flash Thompson and in his own legacy character an becoming mentor in the form of andi Benton the current host of the scream symbiote in her own just cancelled scream series one of marvels best in years #screamforscream
Venom
Venom(Eddie Brock) is a top ten fav comic book character of all time for me. More for the Symbiote Venom than Eddie Brock, he was a real jerk in the 90's. Nowadays I am extremely happy with Brock's character development (Cates). It's very coo to see Cap himself extend the hand to invite Eddie Brock/Venom to The Avengers.
Another great video, Matt. Oh, BTW, Eddie did go back to being a villain as Venom during the John Byrne reboot of Amazing Spider-man that happened right after the end of the 90’s clone saga and just before JMS’ run( but most people forget that because Byrne’s run was shit). Also, what would you classify Harley as these days?
And Cyclops doesn’t suck, he’s just had crappy writers who forget how capable and badass he is when he’s not fixated over Jean. Which is why I like him much better with Emma. But, I’ll give you professor X. Once they revealed that he was in love with Jean( What IS it about her), I never looked at Charlie the same way again.
Rogue
"The clone fought a clone" ok we get it, it's a Spider-Man book
Agent Venom has got to be my favorite villains turned hero storylines
The original run on Agent Venom done by Rick Remender is my favorite comic story period! That's what I call truly amazing character development!
@Frank Castle it would considering there are a lot of elements later that contributed to the symbiote itself becoming more heroic and good natured as the series went on
???? Eugene was a villain/evil? [+]
Favorite villain turned hero is Matt Draper himself
Ugh I hate that guy.
😹
I don't know, I liked his character arc in the "Crisis of Infinite Comic Commentators" storyline. I mean his redemption arc in that was touch. Who would have guess'd he'd sacrifice himself to give Linkara the time to stop the amalgamation of Comichistorian//ComicExplained, too bad the following reboot put him back to square One. Though they did hint at this character shift in the Issue "It's a Wonderful Life Matt Draper" when he had that dream sequence, but MAN the fans were upset it was a fake out.
"No not you, Professor X, you'll always suck" Harsh but not entirely wrong 😂
Am i the only one who doesn't get it?
Drugs Let’s just say that Professor X in the comics isn’t entirely a good dude 😂
Charles Xavier is Marvel's greatest SuperVillain
The one that bugs me the most was Sandman. The character had a genuine and natural change of heart. Was a hero for over a decade. Then Jo Q took over and boom, mind whip
Joe Quesada the one enemy of Spider-Man more evil than Norman Osborn. The fact that One More Day was his own personal "Break up Peter and Mary Jane so I can put him with a fictional version of my daughter" fanfiction was pathetic. The fact that he wants Peter to be a permanent teenager even though him growing up, becoming an adult and having to balance adult life with his Spider-Man duties is more interesting is stupid too.
I don't think it was Joe Q who turned Sandman evil. If I recall, it happened during the John Byrne "reboot" on Spider-man, where he either forgot that Sandman was no longer a villain, or knew and did not give a fuck. Since then, Sandman has almost died twice and both times, decided to make peace with Spider-Man. I think the most recent time in Chip Zdarsky's Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, and he hasn't been seen since (that I am aware of)
Sandman as a hero was fantastic!
dbzfan22 : It wouldn't have been the first time Byrne didn't give a f*(k about a character's established history.
Part of why Sandman as a hero was so good is because it was so believable he could be redeemable. Flint Marko always seemed more greedy than really EVIL for the hell of it. Back in the early stories he came across as a guy who only saw his powers as a means to a quick buck than wanting to hurt people. With not one but two similarly powered villains created to fill his villainous boots, turning him back just seems pointlessly regressive. Especially after he'd joined the Avengers! HE WAS AN AVENGER!
It doesn’t matter if it’s Quesada, Byrne, Bendis, or whoever because the problem is the practice. The act of being like, I don’t know or care about the established/current plot, Imma do what I want, is disrespectful and most of the time, pis poor story telling. It’s great to do your own thing and change things up, but it should make sense with the larger narrative. Because of this common practice, I don’t care to read everything and don’t believe in the 616 or whatever DC is being called (Nu52/Rebirth). Because for me, every time there’s a new author it becomes a new universe. I don’t view Remender’s Venom being the same Venom Bunn had. Those are 2 different Venoms [+]
Riddler's run as a private detective was really fun. I really think Eddie would've been a fun addition to a JLI style book.
Too bad DC ruined it when they turned him back to evil for no reason.
It feels so surreal returning to a time before all the Morbius memes
Agreed if only he knew
16:47 Sabretooth is a villain that should stay irredeemable IMO. Villains like Two Face, Mr Freeze, Magneto, some versions of Penguin and so on I could buy as heroes. But a heroic Sabretooth doesn't fit him to me. Just like I couldn't imagine a heroic Joker, Green Goblin, Reverse Flash, Bullseye, Victor Zsasz, Ra's Al Ghul, General Zod, Darkseid, Brainiac and the like.
So true.
I’m scared of darkseid being turned into sympathic villain
Flash is a good version of reverse Flash😂😂
I wouldn’t even buy Mr. Freeze as a hero tbh. The only thing he cares about is his wife. Most villains should just stay villains.
They actually gave The Joker his owe series once, where he fought other Batman villains like Two-Face, the Royle Flush Gang and others. If it'd stuck (i.e. made money) we might've seen a reformed Joker. Thank goodness it tanked.
My favorite was Dent, just too bad it was too brief.
Incidentally, another one I was just as disappointed was The Riddler. During that same period with Dent, Riddler lost his memory (he knew Batman's secret Identity) and became a private investigator. It was nice change of pace for the character and gave him an out from being a rather predictable villain. He even joined Batman's secret detective forum to help pool their brainpower to solve difficult crimes. He could have been a great ally that skirts the line and always be tempted to prove his villainous superiority but finds happiness from the acceptance of his peers. Alas, it was not meant to be.
And, Joker lost his memory once, I think. Becoming Joe Kerr.
Danial Duval : I've always felt The Riddler might be redeemable since reading a story from an alternate timeline, world or whatever where he'd finally killed Batman in one of his puzzle-traps and he was sad about it. He revealed to a gathering of other villains that he always respected Batman's ability to solve his riddles, secretly knowing he'd escape. Now that Batman was gone he felt lost without a worthy challenge. It reminded me of when it was revealed that Bloodshot subconsciously pulls his shots to miss Batman.
I wish Dent had held on too, especially since in some stories, even as Two-Face, there are occasional glimpses of Harvey's virtues still in there somewhere.
I MEAN, WE CAN ALSO ADD TO THE LIST(EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT ENTIRELY COMICBOOK CHARACTERS)
-STARSCREAM(ARMADA & IDW)
-SETSUNA HIGASHI
-ELLEN KUROKAWA
-TOWA AKAGI
-JENNIKA (IDW)
-RURU AMOUR
-AMANE KASAI
19:00 9 Clayfaces? Talk about muddying the waters.
I'd go with Black Adam. When Jerry Ordway remade him as an honorable fallen hero who was merely manipulated by an evil host, that changed the character forever. Even though reboots have wiped away the Ordway version, his remaking of Black Adam into an anti-hero has lasted (thanks in large part to Geoff Johns further remaking him as basically DC's Doctor Doom - a foreign leader who is honorable but with an ethos that isn't compatible with modern heroes).
What about The Rogues from The Flash comics, they mostly flip flop between helping the Flash or trying to rob banks and the Trickster (the first one) reformed and joined the FBI
I thought about including The Rogues, but it got too complicated.
@@MattDraper Yeah I understand but either way the video was still awesome
Matt Draper - them blue collar boys need love too 🥺
In the 70s and 80s, Flash was as much a counselor for the Rogues as a hero stopping them. He helped Heatwave and Doctor Alchemy reform. He saved Captain Cold from committing murder-suicide over a failed romance. And, all the Rogues famously came to his rescue against Abra Cadabra in the final issue pre-Crisis. That issue was the one that really set the stage for the core Rogues to be forever on the fence, neither good nor bad. It was Cary Bates' final contribution to the Flash.
And then Geoff John's came along and retcon the redemption of Heatwave, Piper and Trickstet. I like Geoff but sometimes he needs to leave well enough alone!
If I had a nickel for every time Venom turned sides, I would be able to buy a Snickers bar.
In all seriousness, this was a great follow up to your Heroes turn evil video.
This video is a lot of fun, Matt! I had no idea Hawkeye started as a villain.Redemption is always an interesting theme when done right.
Thanks, man! I bet I’ll piss a lot of people off with this, just like the “heroes gone bad” video haha
Hawkeye always intended to a hero, but he was mistaken for a villain, and it took a while for him to clear up the confusion. So that one should have an asterisk by it. There was never a point when he needed redemption.
@@wtk6069
He was an antagonist, just like Wolverine, Morbius, Moon Knight. He's technically a killer, but he's not a villain.
I know I'm 9 months late but this is a fantastic video! You're right: whenever a villain becomes a hero they are often immediately switched back. Doctor Doom always should've stayed a hero. Also, you forgot about Loki.
Rogue: sacrifices herself for Wolverine.
Me: BuT hE cAn ReGeNeRaTe doE 🤔
This was probably before his regeneration powers had become that powerful.
“Did hawkeyes heroism stick? I would say yes”
(Covers face in both hands)
You haven’t seen Hawkeye freefall yet have you Matt?
Yikes, that's rough, buddy.
Now I have. Thanks, I hate it.
Don’t even know what it is, but I’m scared to look.
I needed this video after rehab thank you
Agent Venom is my favorite Venom but yeah nailed it on the head how I felt who took over after Flash Thompson.
The biggest missed opportunity in Marvel history is Red Hulk's lack of bitching facial hair!
Imagine if Thunderbolt Ross hulked out and his moustache hulked out to a handle bar or mutton chops.
I think Joker should be a irredeemable villain but Mr Freeze, penguin, killer croc and Riddler could be interesting as Batman’s allies
They turned Clayface good in early DC rebirth. It was actually a well done story. Sadly, like the Sandman before him, I don't think it stuck. But it should have. It really should have.
dbzfan22 yeah the status quo thing
Riddler has a good run as a private detective. I’d recommend it.
dravenpop oh I know that
Yeah. I think having riddler as a sort of rival detective to batman like they did in the early 2000's was a great idea and I'm sad they reverted him to a criminal again. I also think that penguin works best in the crime boss/informant role that he filled in new batman adventures, rather than a full on supervillain.
I like this slightly more casual tone! I think you should do more like this, where you think it's appropriate. :)
"The Underwater Asshole."😂😂😂😂 Love it, Bro! Great Content as always, Man!👍
5:40
oh yeah
it's MORBIN TIME
This was a great video! Well researched and lots of good info
This is the first time I didn’t get a notification for a channel I have notifications on for. Either way great episode. Interesting topic. “Underwater asshole” cracked me up for some reason.
I'd say Zuko, but since Avatar does have comics, I think he counts ^^
Technically he was never bad
@@birdsamora9925
eh, maybe...
@@birdsamora9925 I mean, there were times where he showed little to no hesitation for committing evil actions to capture Aang in Book 1 like the Kiyoshi Warriors episode. So he was bad, but certainly redeemed much much later on.
I LOVED this video, thank you!!!
Great stuff man! Always waiting for a new vid to appear in my feed.
This is such a fun video
Comic writers seem to prefer to opt to make heroes into villains for really stupid reasons rather than taking the time and effort to show a character becoming a better person. It's pretty sad all in all.
galactic85 I wonder why that is
I love your content dude! Amazing and fun vid. Clearly you need to read The Superior Octopus comic, because that miniseries firmly planted Otto as a hero forever in my heart
yup I'm reading that now
Edit: that and spider-man 800
"Ocean Drive" eh? You truly are a man of culture, Mr.Draper.
I love the interjections
"- who sucks -"
"no one cares"
Thank you, Matt!
8:21 Draper: the thunderbolts
Me: The who?
Draper: thunderbolts.
Me: Sunderwhats?
Draper: thunderbolts!
Me: HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
“The underwater a******, joined the Invaders as a force for good!” bah, love your videos!!!
Surprised no mention of Harley Quinn, probably the most obvious example.
Some others: Sandman (didn't stick but might be coming back), Rhino (didn't stick but hints of it coming back), Lizard (off and on constantly), Juggernaut (is that real?), Black Cat, Galactus (off and on, it's complicated), Vision, and probably my favorite Kaine Parker.
Hm... Is this trope more common in Marvel than DC?
“Absolute nothing of a character: Lee Price” 😂
I like Lee Price. He could have been better tho [+]
The best thing Lee price ever did was facilitate brocks return as venom
The best thing Lee price ever did was facilitate brocks return as venom
Love your work man, keep it up💙✨
“The underwater asshole” that threw me off and I cracked up for a couple of minutes.
Ah basil Karol wasn’t always the typical clay face we think of. That was the second clay face. During the story Mud Pack, Basil takes the blood of the other 2 clay faces at the time to become more like the second. Love that story.
7:37 That one page is a cosmic horror in of itself.
My favorite was Deadpool as Wade said" I'm good for money sometimes I'm bad for money as long as I'm having fun with said money"
u make great videos my man
Now I wonder if there is a good guy that turned villainous and stayed that way.
I'm used to you seeming like serious or like an omniscient storyteller, so when you make little jokes at the expense of comics like what you said about "bat and cat" have me dying 😂
With the Thunderbolts you could say it’s half and half. The original team members Mach(Beetle), Atlas(Power Man), and Songbird(Screaming Mimi) have left their villain life behind but Baron Zemo, Fixer, and and Techno went back with their original identities and are more villains than heroes.
My favorite run of team Thunderbolts is when the ones who chose to be heroes help B List villains. Mach, Atlas, Songbird, Blizzard, Joy Stick, Radioactive Man, and Speed Demon.
I loved the Thunderbolts.
Very nice video. I would like to have seen The Juggernaut on this list. Keep up the good work.
You missed at least two other important turns: Wonder Man (sticked) and Juggernaut (didn't stick).
He also managed to miss Black Cat (stuck, mostly {excluding that one weird period with Bendis}) and Riddler (didn't stick).
Also, I have no clue if this counts, but there have also been heroic versions of Green Goblin and Hobgoblin. The problem is that neither of them were the original villains turned good, but random people taking up the mantle for heroics.
@@b.parker1740 True. But the heroic Green Goblin of the 90’s Phil Urich became the new psychotic Hob Goblin in the post-Brand New More Day era
I think one of my personal favorites will always be Emma frost especially since while she may not agree with Xavier she teaches alongside him solely because she doesn't want to see young mutants grow up like she had to
Favorite villains turned hero’s has to be well magento and zuko from the avatar last air bender series and that’s about it
Actually Matt, Hawkeye wasn't a bad guy because of money. He was jealous of Iron Man's sucess as super hero, and wanted to prove that he could be a crime fighter as well. However in his first adventure as hero, the cops thought he was thief and chased after him, resulting in his meeting with Black Widow, who seduce Clint to join her in the battle against Iron Man
I will always think of venom as a villan
Ironically at this point he's probably spent more as a anti hero then a villain but most cartoons show him as a villain anyway
I'm sorry, did I mishear that? Did I hear the suggestion that Cyclops sucks?
1:00 can’t describe namor any better 😂
Pretty ironic how a hero named Rogue stayed a hero loyal to the X-Men.
In my mind, Superior Spider-Man was Otto’s real ending.
What’s wrong with the new Secret Wars?
Me, finding out Morbius only has the hand suckers in the cartoon even though I really should have put that together: "My disappointment is..... immeasurable. And my day is ruined."
I think this topic was tackled woth the most nuance in superior spider man.
I just love hawkeye, his backstory is my favorite
Missed opportunity to say Xavier will always be a jerk at the end there.
I feel like the next video in this series should be heroes given the edge lord treatment (or Grim and Gritty reinventions)
I prefer villains turning good more so than heroes turning bad. When heroes become evil it feels kinda forced. Meanwhile it feels like there is more care put in villains becoming good. Thats just my opinion however.
I can see that. Villains turning good is usually more of a process than heroes turning bad. It's more of a character arc than just a twist.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Harley Quinn
I hate what Marvel did with Superior Spider-Man... They practically "One More Day'd" Otto's entire character and flushes it down the drain... He's now back as the OG Otto Octavius...
The original Otto Octavius' heroic death in the Superior Spider-Man run was amazing... his clone's run was also interesting, even if not as tightly written.
Then Marvel just Mephisto'd the entire thing... it sucks...
Wow just wow, I knew some of the most well known Marvel heroes/anti-heroes were villains at first but seeing them back to back just... Damn, Marvel knows what sells don't they? It makes for more interesting stories I think.
I miss Agent Venom. It was nice to see him show up in the 2018 Venom annual.
Thumbs up solely for the shade thrown at the Morbius movie. (The video was good, too)
Let’s not forget about Spidey Foes the Black Cat & Sandman
IMO villains should only be turned good if they have redeeming qualities, if they know and care that what they've done is wrong, feel remorse for their evil actions and are willing to do whatever they have to to make up for them. And also if they can keep them interesting when they make them heroes. That's why I don't like DC's attempts at an anti heroic or completely heroic Harley Quinn. She was better as a villain.
@Frank Castle Back when she was a villain people used to root for her to see Joker for who he really was and leave him. She could have left him but stayed a villain. They didn't do that though.
Here tv show is awesome though.
Matt draper doing a Cyclops and it prof x video would be GREAT
The symbiote was given to "nobody" Lee Price so that Eddie could rescue them and they would work on their relationship, that is the entire framework of their story, it was to show the symbiote as an exploited person. :/
[Spoilers]
Shame Megatron from the 2005 IDW Comics isn't in this vid. Would love to see you cover his arc.
I knew you’d make one. Also why wasn’t Megatron here?
Sabretooth should never have been made a hero .
You forgot about Harley Quinn
Agent Venom flash Thompson and in his own legacy character an becoming mentor in the form of andi Benton the current host of the scream symbiote in her own just cancelled scream series one of marvels best in years #screamforscream although eddies redemption is also important as well
I would like to see agent venom and indeed flash get his own video and by proxy as a result a video on andi and scream
"Why doesn't Batman just kill his villians?"
See Black Widow's internal issues
Magneto and Black Adam are my favourites.
I liked it when Clayface became good for a bit in the 2004 show "The Batman" because there were two clayfaces, Ethan and Karlo
Folks are still raw about that Lex return to villainy. Now you know how Sinestro and Black Adam fans feel!!
Damn, you hear that? It's this video. It HONKS.
And yes, to quote Kitty Pryde, Professor X is a jerk, but #CyclopsWasRight.
What about Captain Cold? He was always a lot more moral than other villains, refusing to hurt civilians and not using violence except absolutely necessary. When Inertia killed a Flash, the Rogues got so mad they murdered his ass. And in Forever Evil, where Lex Luthor fought the Crime Syndicate (Not Injustice League), Cold was the only other villain besides Luthor of the event that stayed on the side of good.
And there is also Azrael, Bane, Deadshot, Harley Quinn, Catman, Atomic Skull, Killer Frost, Mr. Freeze, Star Sapphire and the rest of the rainbow Lantern Villains, the Suicide Squad in general (Which is weird that it wasn't mentioned as it was name dropped during the Thunderbolts segment). The video was 70% X-Men and 30% everything else.
Great video, never gonna call Namor anything other than Underwater Asshole from now on. Also, Tom King Batman run video when? You clearly have... Opinions on that. Also, would love a video on the best Batgirl, Stephanie Brown!
Hey Matt, you should check out Peter David's run of Captain Marvel. Genis-Vell is easily my favorite Captain Marvel.
I’m curious how familiar you are with IDW’s Transformers comics now, because they had quite a few villains turn back and try to redeem themselves. Even characters you’d normally think would never be redeemed turned over a new leaf.
Namor is the original Vegeta
“The underwater asshole” got me
I personally prefer the Maximoff twins as X-men characters and having them be characters who switch sides depending on what is happening. I really liked them in the animated series of Evolution and WTXM. I’m not super deep in their origins and comic history but I don’t care much for them as avengers characters.
I love how a lot of these are just "well he wasn't really evil to begin with, and he's not really good now. He's just a huge asshole".
Can somebody helps me? When Emma stopped being Black King?
How can anyone mention Thunderbolts without bringing up Songbird and Mach?
WHAT IS YOUR DEAL WITH CYCLOPS!????
Still love your channel
Didn’t Annihilus ally with cosmic heroes in annihilation scourge last year?
Did you ignore Christos Gage's Superior Spider-Man series...? I would say Otto was redeemed. Especially after War of the Realms. Seems like you just stopped at Clone Conspiracy
He's definitively back to being old bad guy Otto at the end of that series.
Agreed. Was a great series.
I liked Scarlet Spider's turn in season 4 of Ultimate Spider-Man
1:00 "the underwater asshole"
If that doesn't encapsulate who the f*** name or is then I don't know what will