The End For The Front Derailleur? | GCN Tech Show 334
Вставка
- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- Has this week seen the beginning of the end for front derailleurs? Alex and Ollie share their thoughts as pros are spotted using the Classified system at the Giro D'Italia.
Plus, this weeks hot tech is ACE, we have the new SRAM RED, the most expensive bike in the world, speedy new tyres from Pirelli, more tech spotted at the Giro, our favourite comments of the week and of course the bike vault!
🏆 Win 1 of 3 pairs of Pirelli P ZERO RS tyres!
Enter here 👉 gcn.eu/GCNPirelliCompetition
In association with @Pirelli
Useful Links:
GCN Tech Uploader 👉 gcn.eu/techuploader
Everything Cycling. All In One Place 👉 www.globalcyclingnetwork.com
Visit the GCN Shop 👉 gcn.eu/gcnshop
GCN WhatsApp Channel 👉 gcn.eu/GCNwhatsapp
GCN Instagram Broadcast Channel 👉 gcn.eu/instagrambroadcast
Watch more on GCN Tech...
📹 How A Bike Tyre Is Made | Pirelli Factory Tour
👉 • How A Bike Tyre Is Mad...
📹 Watch our Editor’s Choice Playlist 👉 gcntech.co/EditorsChoice
📹 Watch the latest GCN Tech Show 👉 gcntech.co/GCNTechShow
🎵 Music - licensed by Epidemic Sound 🎵
when i hop - baegel
#gcntech #gcn #cycling #roadcycling #roadbike #bike #bikes #bikelife #biketech #SRAM #pirelli #newtech #olympics #olympicbikes
📸 Photos - © Velo Collection (TDW) / Getty Images & © Sprint Cycling Agency
Brought to you by the world’s biggest cycling channel, the Global Cycling Network (GCN), GCN Tech is the only channel you need for all things bike tech - past, present and future.
Simply put, we’re obsessed with tech: we seek out and showcase the best in bikes, components, tech, accessories, upgrades and more from races and events, tech shows and product launches across the globe to bring you the best in road bike technology.
We’ve also got great maintenance videos to help you get the most from your bike; pro-bike tours from all the biggest races; special features and the weekly GCN Tech Show. We also take a deeper look into the future of cycling, apps, smart tech and virtual riding.
Join us on the channel and the GCN App to submit your content, vote on the latest tech and keep abreast of exciting new trends.
Thanks to our sponsors:
Pinarello Bikes: gcn.eu/Pinarello
Topeak Tools: gcn.eu/Topeak
Camelbak: gcn.eu/Camelbak
Canyon Bikes: gcn.eu/-Canyon
Pirelli Tyres: gcn.eu/Pirelli
Orbea Bikes: gcn.eu/Orbea
Vision Wheels: gcn.eu/Vision
Wahoo Fitness: gcn.eu/Wahoo-Fitness
Park Tool: gcn.eu/-parktool
Selle Italia: gcn.eu/SelleItalia
SiS: gcn.eu/ScienceInSport
Zwift: gcn.eu/Zwift
Silca: gcn.eu/Silca
MET Helmets: gcn.eu/methelmets
Strava: gcn.eu/strava
ShadowStand: gcn.eu/ShadowStand
Precision Fuel & Hydration: gcn.eu/precisionhydration
AGU: gcn.eu/AGU
Elitewheels: gcn.eu/Elitewheels
Watch our sister channels:
Global Cycling Network - / @gcn
GCN Racing - / @gcnracing
Global Triathlon Network - / @gtn
GCN Italia - / @gcnitalia
GCN en Español - / @gcnenespanol
GCN auf Deutsch - / @gcnaufdeutsch
GCN en Français - / @gcnenfrancais
GCN Training - / @gcntraining
Global Mountain Bike Network - / @gmbn
GMBN Racing - / @gmbnracing
GMBN Tech - / @gmbntech
Electric Mountain Bike Network - / @embn - Спорт
Will you be ditching your front derailleur? 👀
Only on mountain bike sadly as no new groupset with double or triple
Gravel bike be having front derailleur
@@mlee6050 Why are you keeping the front derailleur?
@@gcntechI'm just not a fan of single chainring, I always liked having double or triple, even though 99% I'm using 53 11, drop to 39 is nice on 10% hill, most times I always enjoy double than thinking of single chainring
On mountain bike I always had triple and 26" wheels, on velomobile as notice crank or bottom bracket to drop to 40% of gear ratio I'm looking to go 1x12
Just saw your other comment, I don't mind more maintenance as I also enjoy building my own wheels and bikes from scratch, no cheating like some say bike build but brought wheels already made
Have an Rohloff on my cross country bike. Saves so much time in maintenance and reliability.
Never on my road bike.
so they brought back the good old 3-speed hub...nice.
Next year: aero coaster brake
I wish the three speed hub I rode with as a kid had those kinds of efficencies.
Ya know, at the prices being bandied about, a Rohloff looks positively affordable, and a hell of a lot more reliable and enduring.
@@rfwillett2424"I wish the three speed hub I rode with as a kid had those kinds of efficencies."
Where can one find objectively measured efficiency data on this thing? Planetary gears are notoriously inefficient.
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 "notoriously inefficient?" I might agree that is marginal. Very marginal at that. Certainly not "notoriously inefficient." Heck, shave extra close in the morning and there you go - even steven.
Just because the pro peloton has adopted a new technology does not mean the death of the previous tech. Look at previous examples - carbon frames, disc brakes, electronic gears, integrated cockpits - there’s still a thriving market for metal frames, rim brakes, mechanical gears and separate bars and stems for those enthusiasts who cannot afford the price tag of these new technologies.
Guess which is more efficent, :
the 15 dollars front derailleur
the 1000 dollars hub ?
Red AXS derailleur is gonna run you more like $400.
@@JMurph2015nobody prefers the Red over a Dura-Ace😂
And tbh nobody besides the pros needs the two top tier groups…
@@JMurph2015 Then don't buy it. You must be great fun to go out drinking with. "Wot, your bottle of vodka only cost 50 Pounds? Mine cost a thousand..."
@@stephensaines7100 I'm just giving an actually fair comparison. A front derailleur from a Huffy is hardly a fair comparison to stuff being ridden by pros.
@@HeySers ok, but they were specifically talking about teams which used SRAM gear, so SRAM Red is the fair comparison.
It was used to facilitate the use 66T chainrings which lowers chain tension and improves drive train efficiency, first and foremost. Not so much aero, and theres a large weight penalty. Ineos did the calc to figure out for the flat section the gain in chain efficiency was worth the small deficit on the climb. For the 66T ring there is no small chainring option.
The limit on chain tension for power is going to be total gearing. Second is the number of teeth on the rear sprocket.
Week 62 of asking for a “The UCI has no jurisdiction here” T-shirt
I had one made by Spreadshirt. with crossed out UCI logo on the back 🙂
Can you show us on the doll where the UCI hurt you? 😂
Ill make these shirts if y'all will buy them 💯
Take the hint 😂
Flogging a dead horse.
Another super expensive stuff no one really needs. Okay the pros may need this but we just want to have fun.
Front derailleurs are just absolutely fine, just as mechanical shifting or rim breaks are.
Edit: I just realized this is basically a fancy and advanced hub gear like my 1970s opafiets has...
Could not agree more, it's all about selling more stuff.
brakes
Why do people cling to rim breaks, I don’t understand? There is plenty of unnecessary expense gear out there when you inevitably need stopping power you’ll be happy you have them. As a long time MTB who is very comfortable working on hydraulic breaks they are not complicated rim breaks or more of an annoyance in my opinion.
@@MiddleAgedMike Well for me I still use rim brake because i don't want to buy a new bike just to get discs. I know disc brakes are better and I'd love to switch to it but my 105 mechanical rim brakes work just fine.
@MiddleAgedMike some of us know how to set up our rim brakes....You clearly don't.
I'm still a 3x guy, so my front derailleur is not going anywhere but over the big, middle, and tiny rings. 3x9 mechanical for my dream build, Ollie and Joachim, and you can stop that mess about front derailleur killers. 😀
I absolutely love a touring triple when I’m not on a fixed. Tiny, big-ish, big and a nice wide 11-34 cassette is great for lazy days.
@@mattmatthews5414 Hopefully with friction shifting?
@@WerdnaLiten halfway between the bars and the water bottle on the down tube. Smooth single throws across as many cogs as I please.
I’m running 3x too. I wish there was a way to replace it though. Front derailleur never work right.
@@kalijasinFair enough, your need to replace it with another 3x, just don't succumb to the 1x campus bike craze, lol. And if all you need is a new front derailleur, lots of replacements out there, new and lightly used. And new-old-stock, too, I bought an NOS Campy triple crankset on eBay and I'll install it on a 90s steel-frame Marin. I just hope having all those gears doesn't confuse me. That's a big advantage of running 1x. :)
Yes! Got my bike in the bike vault after 3 attempts and it’s super nice! 😊
Where do I submit it mine?
@@gamby16a Look in the info page under the video for the uploader link.
@@gamby16a GCN Uploader link in the video description.
@@phil_d Fantastic! Thanks 🤓
I have yet to see any *independent* data on the % efficiency of the Classified system. I have yet to see any real disadvantage in a properly adjusted FD
Peak torque did it and it lined up with classified's claims
Last weekend I upgraded my Peugeot UO8 touring bike to a Stronglight triple crankset. Now it is 3x7 with the original Simplex downtube shifters. Super fun to ride and very reliable. Front derailleurs are great.
2x7 for me, stronglight 34-50 and 32 at the back. Shimano friction bar end shifters. All the gears you need ( but not necessarily the ones in between...)
I installed a Stronglight 99 triple two years back for C$100 from a bike shop with boxes of classic parts.. I was using TA, but replacement chainrings no longer available here in Toronto. I found a brand new 99 entire crankset (albeit one of the later ones with BSA threading) and have been ordering replacement rings from SPA Cycle in the UK. Even with the cost of mailing, it's cheaper than buying Shimano, or any other big name rings locally, and being made by Stronglight, the best alloy possible.
Bike originally came with a Maillard 7spd Sport freewheel, but I found I was bending axles, so went to a 6spd, same overall ratio spread, and shortened the axle 5mm. Never bent since. I still do 100km treks on it, trails and weather permitting. I'm mid Seventies...and save vast amounts of money not having to buy silly cycling outfits. I do wear quality padded gloves and shorts liners however. Comfort is everything, which means a fully broken in Swallow saddle.
That’s the beauty of 2x - you can always find and shift to the right gear without the compromise of big jumps between gears. This bike has also been my road bike in Barcelona for several months and I wouldn’t change it for that either
Beauty of 2x is less cross chaining and noise.
Go for a 3x, and you'll be able to grind in descent and spin on any climb.
@@___Bebo___ And chain and cog wear...
@@stephensaines7100 My less cross chaining statement covered that but thanks for the effort.
I’ll always have a front derailleur. It’s simple, works well, and gives me the ratios I need and want.
I would ditch mine in a heartbeat
You think a front mech 'works well'?
@@adamhindle9215Mine does
Have a triple on my race bike and love it for racing hilly courses, 1x is cool though, but a bit limiting especially if you like to toggle between high and low cadences
I’ve been riding mtb with a single chain ring for years. And you know what, it sucks . It was easier to trail ride with a triple chain ring. With 12 X 1 it feels like I’m always under geared or over geared. Maybe triples were slightly heavier. But you didn’t have a dinner plate for a cassette.
Interesting! Do you not like the low maintenance of 1x?
I agree completely. 'Low maintenance' is hardly a substitute for worse performance, plus you're hardly gaining when you factor in chain maintenance. I'm not skilled mechanically but as far as i recall i had one front mech problem in over 30 years and no chain issues. Nor is the 'seal of approval of the pros' an issue, that's just marketing. You can have all the gear you like but if you're overweight, got more miles on the clock than you'd like, or your joints have been battered into jelly all the tech in the world, except maybe an ebike, isn't going to help you. Unless you're a cosplayer which is something else again.
I'm riding 3x9 on my old MTB and I hate it, for me it feels like I have 3 sets of the same gears.I've ridden 1x12 MTBs and I loved it, maybe you should try changing your chainring to match your preferred cadence, or have you tried that already? I would love to have 1x on my road bike too, I don't mind having dinner plate on my rear wheel, my aero wheels are somewhat of a sombero already so it wouldn't make much of a difference.
Went 1x 10 years ago on the MTB, what's not to like.
No chain drop ever, only one shifter and loads of range. All you need to do is pair a 10-52 cassette with whatever chainring suits where you ride - 30t for me as I'm also on 160mm cranks.
My gravel bike has a 46t chainring and 11-46 cassette - plus use it with slicks as my road bike.
Totally agree. It's good for racing, and bad for everything else. With a triple, you have much more durability of your drivetrain. Chainrings, chain, everything works better and last more than double.
Great news…another proprietary part…will match the proprietary stem, post & bars…(in the bin with the polyurethane composite Far East rebranded frameset) when the new ‘black’ arrives…
Hate that all new mtbs are 1x12 and no even can fit an front derailleur. It's such a pain when u have a small uphill in the downhill and u have to shift through 8-9 gears. Just dropping the front one gear and one push to go 3 rear gears up was so much faster. Now i stallout every time ... hate it.
Don't worry, in 2-3 years time someone will reinvent the wheel and decide we're all better off with 2 or 3x upfront....
I've had the triple on every one of my bikes and very few problems, but more important, with triple durability. Mtbs with triple had chainsucks when they're young, but after some years worked quite fine, so I had a triple on my road bike too, because when I bought mine (2008) compacts were coupled with 12-27, and I like to climb a lot. Since then I have never regretted it, still riding the 2008 road with the original drivetrain (8-10k kms a year), and now I go gravel too, and I choose a double. Singles are good to race, and I stopped racing a decade ago.
And before someone come telling this is about inner gearing systems: I know it, but we all know is just a high-price gimmick. Inner gearings are less efficient and more expensive, not to mention durability and possibility of self-reparing. For a normal rider, it's a nonsense.
Great to hear you are still keeping the triple alive 🙌 We see lots of non racing cyclists going for 1x set-ups because it offers low maintenance. What do you think to that?
@@gcntech ty for your backup, but I can't get it, how can a system like 1X that has more frictions offers less mainteinance? I have no mainteinance at all, I only have to change my chain when it's time, and it lasts more than in a 1X, because it's larger and it works more straight.
@@gcntechLow maintenance? One less chain ring and front mech? Heaven forbid!
@@MicheleGardinifor the NORMAL rider, it makes the most sense.
The normal rider is the dude who buys a 10k bike that he rides weekly to a cafe. The bike is just a fun toy to play with. These stuff make cycling fun for them.
Your rider who plays at pretending to ride pro, goes for crits etc, is the minority.
A drop from 99.8 to 99.2% efficiency drop could be in the range of 2 watts or more? If the hub's aerodynamic gain is one watt, that 0.6% gain is not minimal if that lower gear is used much at all. So, the hub only provides a net gain in situations, like many timetrials, where the lower gear is a rarely used, but a significant advantage for the amount it is used.
The efficiency claims are really on the edge of credibility for a geared planetary, and I'm not aware of any third party validation of the claims.
The biggest problem is that you lose the efficiency in the specific climbing scenario where it really matters in a race. It doesn't matter as much on a standard drivetrain if it's losing a bit of efficiency in the faster scenario when the race leader is drafting anyway
You’d have to know the efficiency of the reference hub as well to make an accurate determination
@@wrwicky well planetary gearbox has a significant powerloss... this 1% is ridiculous.. and its surely more then that
1% loss of gannas 500watt avarage, is 5 watts lost thats massive
@@matsvancoppenolle5796 a good planetary gear normally run ~3% , I haven't seen anything to back up the "1%" claim at realistic torque and rotational speed.
I'm a bit of a techno-geek and an avid cyclist so when I first learned of the Classified Hub, I was interested in the technology. I was lucky enough to do a test ride at a local bike shop and I was delighted with the experience! I was in the process of doing a custom build on a new bike so the time was right to adopt the Hub. I purchased the Hub without rims for ~$1,000 and had it laced into Zipp 353s.
The frame is a Wilier Filante SLR which was fitted with a Shimano Ultegra groupset minus the front derailleur. I have a 52t 1x chainring in the front and I did install a K-Edge chain keeper to eliminate the possibility for chain drops - I've had none. My left DI2 shifter is wired into the Classified transmitter mounted in the left handlebar end (Classified provided the instructions on how to do this) and the right DI2 shifter controls my Shimano rear derailleur.
I'm very happy with what I've put together, but it's certainly not for everyone. I worked with a local bike shop that specializes in custom builds and there were some bumps along the way, but we got through them.
Them new Pirelli tyres £85 😮 that's wild
I ride 1x12 SRAM AXS on my gravel bike and 2x11 Shimano mechanical on my road bike. I like them both. As a recent adopter of 1x, there’s a lot to like…simplicity, clean look etc. Sure, the cadence isn’t always ‘just right’, but it’s fun to ride. I appreciate the innovation in the space. Ultimately it will lead to improvement.
Same but Shimano on both. Never thought I'd like the 1x12 as much as I do but it is great for gravel.
@@Hermod_Hermit why not 1x12 also for road?
@@Lenser I've begun seriously thinking about it.
@@Hermod_HermitI have Sram axs 1x with 10-33 cassette and 42T chainring. Considering going 44T with 10-36 cassette for more high end.
If anything obsoletes the front derailleur and of course chainrings, it won't be this 1x trend/fad, which works great for some people and situations and not so much for others. Rather, it'll be new or improved technology such as is described in this video. Which, of course, could eventually replace the rear derailleur and cassette/cogs with a similar technology. Ideally someday we'll have affordable, lightweight, reliable, durable and easy to use bike drivetrains with continuous gearing and wide gear ranges, to fit basically any real-world situation, matched with the ability to shift either completely manually, completely automatically, or something in-between, as you can on some cars these days, so that you'll always be in your ideal gear ratio, which either you, the computer or both decide on.
I'd love that, but am not holding my breath. And until then, I'm sticking with my ultra-reliable, very durable, not that expensive and fairly easy to use and maintain 3x10 10s setup on my road bike (53-40-30 x 12-23). It's never failed me and I can almost always find the ideal gear for the conditions I'm riding under. If I ever try to ride on steep mountains or bikepack, I'll just swap in a 12-30 and be set. I bet this is true of most cyclists, that their current gearing setup and drivetrain fit their riding needs nearly all of the time.
I'm of the opinion that standard road gearings are incredibly silly and pointless for anyone other than a downhill or flat racer.
Modern 12 speed rears from mtb/gravel can provide 500% range by themselves. A 42 x 10-51 provides the almost identical top end as 53-12, (42x11 is plenty for 99% of people) and obviously better climbing than 30-23. Normal people don't need 30 gears of spacing, and swapping both front and rear at once is a great way to drop or break a chain.
@@anthonyschroeder521 road benefits from small rear teeth jumps to maintain optimal cadence.
@@Lenser When racing sure. When putting around as normal riders do, it just doesn't matter. Besides the real cassette spacing for flats is actually not **that** dissimilar to road 12 speeds (or older 10/9 speeds that people seem to remember fondly). 10/12/14/16/18/21/24 is not huge. Dura-ace 11-34 has only 2 more gears over that range (7v9). Sure 20% gap at top speed, but realistically jumping into the 42/10 means you are flying anyways. The only big change are the last 2-3 in the mtb rears which IMO are more than worth it given the huge gearing assist it gives on steep inclines. Sure 2x/3x can increase that even more, but realistically it is more than already good enough.
To be clear, I'm not the only one whose noticed this. The gravel/offroad community has seen this problem for ages, and it does seem like manufacturers are finally coming around now that gravel is becoming more high-profile in racing etc. Heck, SRAM XPLR offers 10/11/13/15/17/19/21/24 up to 44 explicitly for this extremely realistic use case.
Greetings from my 2008 hybrid bike with a SRAM DualDrive II hub (3 internal gears) and an 1-by 8 speeds derailleur (575% ratio when using 11-34 cassette)
If you drill a small hole in one of the SRAM brake levers then you will have the lightest electronic groupset and SRAM will have the second lightest 😊
I recently changed my gravel bike and roadbike to 1x setup. At first i was struggling to find my cadence rhythm. After few more days to adopt the setting and i feel the change is like a holy grail.
That's awesome! What is it about 1x that you like so much?
@@gcntech With SRAM AXS I definitely couldn't be bothered to keep track of yet ANOTHER battery.
With mechanical systems it's a pain to set up the FD on a frame without barrel adjuster mount for the FD cable.
With 1x I'm much faster to accelerate from sloping crossroads (no need for a sluggish front shift). I like to be out of the thick of it quickly.
So far I've never managed to make a 1x drivetrain drop a chain.
In the realm of electronic groupsets opting for 1x saves real money.
I tried to buy a Classified hub with the parcours disc for my TT recently. We couldn’t get the battery to fit in my Profile Design extensions. Classified never replied to me or the bike shop with a fix. Doubt Ineos or Pogacar would have this issue. I bought a Zipp Super9 disc and a Ceramic Speed aero OSPW instead, for the same price. No extra gear, but it looks cool
The weight question isn’t just a matter of how many grams, but it’s also how it changes the centre of gravity of the bike. I’ve got a Mtb with a 14 speed rolhoff hub system and the handling aspect can be significant. But it is bomb proof and ultra reliable.
i would happily go for just full internal gear hub but i am waiting for 3x3 hub because i prefer high gear range and relatively low amount of gears.
as for the wattage savings using the Classified hub. no numbers have been given for the losses in the system compared to a normal setup, only aero watts given here.
planetary gears are not 1:1, they have losses as everything else. if the loss here outweigh the aero gain then we can send classified > /dev/null 2>&1
stop spewing out a company's ads without all the numbers
That Sturdy TT, is easily the most SuperNice Bike to get a “Nice”, but it was jaunty angle and a friend of the show (which is always a tougher standard)
Front mechs on Colnago C68s have to be mounted a fraction higher than what's considered normal, this appears to be because of the laid back relaxed seat-tube hence the front hanger is also laid back.
You can easily fix the bluetooth issues with some sort of NFC handshake between hub and rear derailleur. On top of that I am not sure if classified system allows much higher step between gears then front chainrings, but if so you could eliminate overlap and efectively double the range of cassette and have either smaller 9x or even smaller cassette (therefore lighter) or having much tighter gearing on current 11 or 12
I can see the drawbacks in road racing with the Classified system (unless during time trials). For gravel, it can be a game changer because I would gues that the increments are smaller between all the gears with the Classified system compared to a 1-by setup.
I biked past Alex and Ollie a few hours ago on the River Road, under the George Washington Bridge. In the 1 second I had to decide what to say, all I could do was point and say, "...Alex! ...Ollie!" They said "Hey!" which was nice of them. Hope that getting recognized isn't annoying, haha. Enjoy GFNY, and welcome to New York!
I already ditched my front derailleur when I got my 48tooth Sram aero chain ring, riding 1X this year.
Dehydrated... that was me two days ago. I was on mile 70 of 85, about 4,500 feet into 5,000 feet and it was about 90 degrees. I was drinking water, but it was the first warm day of the year. It's not joke and hit me really hard.
Thing with one-by is cross chaining. Classified with a huge chainring allows you to run bigger cogs, so does two-by. The loss is not to be underestimated. 10 tooth cogs are inefficient and eat your chain. I think one-by is bad for road, the classified hub would allow me to run in the middle of the cassette as well...
Classified does not have a 10 tooth cog. And in general cross chaining is less with one-by because the single chainring is in the middle.
@@moviebeans And that's good! it doesn't need it, you can run a bigger chain ring.
In a two-by you _should_ only run half your cassette...
And then it's more efficient chain-line wise.
In One-by you will run huge cassettes with 10 tooth cogs, which you actually need.
I think one-by is really wished to work (me too) but unpractical on the road.
For the everyday rider for flat and mountains, it is just suboptimal in my opinion.
I wish it could be simpler
So in summary the Classified system adds minimal weight, reduces drag by a minimal amount and increases mechanical resistance by a minimal amount. Does it...cost a minimal amount too?
The aero drag might offset the mechanical loses at Ganna-warp speed by for the average Joe?
The only benefit I can think of, which you didn't touch on, is clearance for wider tyres on gravel bikes while maintaining gear ratios.
Ha, unfortunately not! That said, I paid ~$1,000 for just a Hub, one piece 12 speed cassette, and the electronics that go along with the Hub. A DI2 Ultegra front derailleur is ~$250, but I added a $100 K-Edge chain keeper so in the end the Hub cost me an extra $850. I feel it was worth the investment, but I can certainly see where a lot of people wouldn't want to spend the money.
66 tooth chain ring?!!? Holy moly 😮
What's the difference in weight of a front derailleur and a chain keeper? I've even been frustrated by gravel bikes without the front derailleur. Bad chain lines and extreme cassettes with huge gaps 😕
I reckon the Classified hubs will take off for TTs because any major contender will have a team car behind them and the aerodynamic benefit is so substantial. Plus I think it is seen as more acceptable to slightly modify a TT setup in this way. Taking off in road racing feels less likely, especially since groupset manufacturers likely won't be keen.
GCN: "Classified is the future of cycling"
Pogacar: Hold my beer
Bike tech: the only genre of consumer technology videos I can think of where the comments all actively hate on every new tech development. I remember when the hating was on electronic groupsets and hydraulic disc brakes. There is a real "If I don't need it for my bike, nobody needs it for theirs" kind of attitude.
Personally, I don't care whether this gear system is going to win over the peloton or not. It is just fun to see some teams trying new things.
Alex needs to consult the marketing department to defend his invisible chain:
247g lighter! Frictionless!
Universally compatible!
SUPERNICE!
If I had a 9-50 cassette there would be no need for front derallieur. But there are things about different bikes design that limits things, and also whats available to which cost. So I ended up with 11 speed 30-46 GRX and 11-34 cassette , which is very good.
I'm using the Classified system since last September and it's really cool!
the powerloss (of an epicyclic planetary gearbox) is not too much to stomach?
@@siitan83 I have the Classified Hub and the power loss is negligible! Per Classified's peer reviewed study, it's 99.8% efficient in 1:1 mode and 99.2% when in 1:.686 mode.
There goes Ollie's 'mad scientist' laugh again after Alex's dehydration clip! 🤣😂
Classified rear hub...replace some inside parts with 6/4 ti to reduce weight?
No front derailleur, 36 speeds in the rear, rubber chain, and a rear derailleur that doubles as a kick stand! What progress!
At 2:10 you say 1-4 watts saved from removing the front derailleur is huge, but at 8:30 that 0.8% mechanical efficiency losses are miniscule. I guess both could be true in that all hubs have some losses so it's a relative thing, but I'd guess the pros and cons of the system are pretty close.
How many of you remember the Sturmey Archer internal 3 speed with a Benlux derailluer with a three speed cog. Okay, so that was 1960's tech and weighed a ton. Ah, but it never broke or wore out. :-)
"Benelux". Available in both double and triple. I had both at various times, along with a wide ratio SA 4spd hub! I just checked discussion of this online. Google "Cyclo (Benelux) or ? derailer." Google will want to correct that misspelling, but the discussion is misspelled, so go with the first hit.
Have one of each w/wo ultegra DI2 - if you are not climbing mountains it’s all fine. 165mm crank arms work well on flats and hills with 1x.
You went over the performance benefits in quite a bit of detail. But as an amateur cyclist, without a pro team budget, I am interested in a cost analysis. How does the cost compare to having a front derailleur, say an Ultegra wireless? (Again, not a pro racer, so I don't use Dura Ace.)
The "Rear Hub Kit" (no rim/spokes) is around £1500. By the time you factor in all the "bits and bobs" postage, and the slightly higher cost of buying individual parts the best (cheapest), way with Shimano is buy a complete group (£1300) and sell the bits you dont need, to get the bits you do. if you want a quick-ish sale say £250, closer to £350 if you can wait. So £2500-ish + Chainring (say £80) and you have to have the hub built in to your rim.
Maybe you could pull it off for £2700 if you grab a few discounts.
The best way is Probably Sram Force Etap Axs 1x: £950 + Hub kit+ wheel build and selling the cassette you might get it done for under £2500.
But you have to factor in the on going cost too, a cassette used in 1x has maybe 2/3 of the life span of a 2x if you're lucky, and there is no lower tier/aftermarket/budget option to fall back on in the meantime if it craps out when the old bank balance isn't looking too healthy.
And if Classified goes belly up (lets face it, nobody's clambering for this with the economy as it is) you have a very expensive paper weight.
@@chris1275cc Thanks Chris.
Thanks for all your work. Got a question about all your films from GCN? They were great!
17:40 Giant Cadex Tri (KrisBlu's bike) also have that wide fork and seatstay design.
Thats the only bike i know of using that design thats attainable by public.
Will be great talking point on Sunday ride , I weigh 20 stone so any help with component weight and wattage will be great , also I like to have better equipment than others .
I was big fan of the single chainring on mtb, because of the simplicity. But on roadbike you need a wider ratio, and finer gears, so you would need 15-16 gears on the rear to reach the similar comfort, what we already had at 2x11 speed - i do not think it would be even lighter.
Do a video on SRAM Dual Drive. Early tech that has the same idea
I think Mr. Sturdy has to build a totally over the top bike stand for that beauty.
for a. race and wheel changes not for pro riders yet. but amatuer rider. perfect system, been eyeing one up for ages but hard to splash that cash. but i love 1x so i see myself doing it in future
How should we address the additional cost of a planetary gear hub, maintenance cost, and reliability? Peak Torque and Hambini have Podcasts on the product. They are both cycling engineering podcasts. Hambini greatly contested the efficiency claims. Peak Torque did an outdoor test (many variables) and decided the system was a performance gain.
It makes every single gear useable, unlike a 2x where only 6 of 11 don’t scrape. I love my 1x11 and will never go back to a front derailleur but would try this.
I’d love to see Alex do an extended review of the Classified system, across a range of different uses - high speed descents, long climbs, punchy climbs, a crit where he is on/off the power all the time, short rolling terrain involving frequent shifts in the planetary gears. Then give it to Hank for some destructive testing - bury it, ride it into the sea, etc.
Seeing as SRAM literally just lunched the new Red AXS, in 2x, I very much doubt it.
Thought I say it's great seeing Ollie while I'm waxing my chain, looking to buy the silca drip on when saved up
Awesome! You'll love it, did you see our video covering the chip strip 👉ua-cam.com/video/GJKNFzQHHgo/v-deo.html
@@gcntech I did, sadly at time I used wd40 to remove factory grease, be nice to go that route in future
#AskGCNTech How much bike frame material (aluminium, carbon etc...) can affect the peak power during a sprint?
The track bike is so hot, that the name melts away along with the images.
The hub weight and the blending of 1976 technology with electronics . Rohloff released a mechanical hybrid hub in 2004 .
For a saving of 1-4 watts!!! I’m still running mechanical shifters.
I invested in tubeless wheels last year and love them to bits. Should I be using foam inserts now also? I loved the simplicity of the system. #askgcntech
Probably until the hub becomes a lot more affordable, front derailleur will be here with us. Personally I don't hate setting up my front derailleur but it is not that easy. My bikes all have different chain line alignment and it will be hours to get a bike with parts from different manufactuers to have no chain rub at all.
For most of us the front derailleur will probably stick around 👀 Although, it's super interesting to see what could be coming down the line 👀
When I built up my road bike over 20 years ago it took forever to dial in my front derailleur's position and cable tension properly so that shifts were always smooth, quick and crisp, the chain never rubbed it no matter what gear combos I used--including the extreme ones I never use--and the chain didn't fall off the small or big ring or in-between the rings. I had to keep adjusting its height and angle on the seat tube along with chain tension, which was a major pain, but eventually I found the perfect settings and haven't had to worry about it since (my bike frame obviously didn't have dedicated front derailleur bosses which would have made this a lot harder). It's sort of akin to tuning a performance car for the kind of driving you like to do, which takes a while, but once it's done you generally don't have to mess with it again.
What about running a Classified system AND a front derailleur? Thinking super low gearing for super steep hills, bikepacking, loooong days out while mainaining small steps between shifts. (AKA new age 3X)
I have wondered about putting the Classified hub on a bike *WITH* a front derailleur. Assuming that I understand what it does, it would be like having a quadruple front chain set. This would give me 48 gears (I know, I know, there will be duplicate gear ratios all over the place), which would be hilarious 😂
Or I could put the hub on my old-school steel Mondonico, which has a Campagnolo Record “Racing Triple” (9-speed x 3). That would be 3x9x2 = 54 gears!
been watching new tech for 50 years. Complexity in energy tranfer isn't commercially viable unless it becomes standardized, and that has everything to do with serviceability
I rarely use my front derailleur so maybe having no front derailleurs would be OK for some uses. However, I would have preferred that bike technology move towards cheaper and lighter internal rear hub systems. Rear derailleurs can be damaged easily by road obstructions or even by a bike falling on the wrong side.
The losses on the classified system aren’t too bad. We’ve been saving dozens of watts every year on new bikes. We can spare a few watts here. I think we still have about 317 watts of savings left in the bank if my math is correct
If I gave back 317 watts I'd be going backward.
@@babygerald4645 I also did add in all the savings from skin suits or aero helmets. There are still more watts in the bank so I think you’re still moving forward.
Great content as always guys..did you purposely pit a halo around Ollie's head 😊
I would say that Decathlon has done a lot by way of reducing price barriers to entry on all points for cycling. Their clothing, safety gear and accessories are all much lower priced. I have purchased Van Rysel bibs for $100.00 Canadian and I am very pleased with them.
Haven’t used one for 6 years. Don’t miss it
Your article on Tadej's Giro TT bike came short on finding out what the prototype? unmarked wheels were.
More complicated service? Bluetooth required? Higher price? Not sure the average commuter or once a week rider would have any interest in this tech compared to a regular compact front derailleur and an 11, 36 on the rear....
To summarize 1-4w (at pro speed) aerodynamic savings: that is huge! Btw: you could run 1x without a classified hub. 0,2% (400w (pro power)x0,002=0,8w) to 0,8% (400x0,008=3,2w) losses: Miniscule! Btw: on top there are additional losses from the 1x configuration, because the chain tends to run more diagonal compared to 2x. And the efficiency of the hub is worse where it matters most: uphill
Pogacar: massive statistical outlier.
So this Filippo Ganna, who came in second, must be some average pro cyclists. Good for him he saved this 1-4w, which elevated his performance out of the middle of rankings to this surprising second place. I guess he must have been very delighted about the results.
The big issue I have with the Classified system is moving the weight from the center of the bike under the rider in a very stable position to the rear of the bike. It’s not huge amount of weight, but would still mess with the handling. I think it is a great idea, but most of my riding nowadays is half gravel. I prefer to have the bulk of the weight centered.
There might be lot of valid issues with Classified but I'll buy you an ice cream if you can prove the difference in handling in a blind test.
I don't think about buying a Classified hub as long as it is not fully integrated in the electronic groupsets. Means: shifting with the STI and blips, automatic "big/small chainring" shifting with SRAM etc. That hub would be great for triathlon, but the last thing you want is another box glued to the aerobars
The Classified Hub transmitter mounts in the handlebar end and by default is hard wired to a sprint shifter button that mounts on the bar. That said, there is a nifty integration into a DI2 shifter that's a bit of a hack where you solder the wires from the Classified transmitter into the left DI2 shifter so you eliminate the extra button and just use a standard shifter. You cannot do this with SRAM though. My left DI2 shifter controls the Hub and the right DI2 shifter controls the rear derailleur.
The front derailleur will always be there. And rightfully so. All my bikes have triple chain rings.
No way. I still ride 3x10 Ultegra. Nothing beats the small steps and wide range and better chain line, I couldn't care less about the additional few hundred grams. Because thats not available anymore I am not buying a new bike. No kidding.
Remember the 1980's? Time trialers used a one by back then . 56 on the front , straight through block on the back.
My god that Sturdy is jawdropping.
I have the latest SRAM Rival on my bike. Can I buy some parts like cassette, chain and even chainrings from this new Red and install them on my bike?
How much does it reduce the gear ratio¿ so when Ineos were on that 60 ring. what would the second gear come down to when comparing it to a regular system?
So the aero savings of ditching the front derailleur of 1-4 watts are 'huge' and we just ignore the fact that the classified system is 99,2% efficient in the 'small ring' setting? Putting out 400w on a climb you already lose 3,2 watts that way so basically every time you're on a climb you are just about as efficient as with a front derailleur - at best
There is often forgotten factor regarding powertrains beside weight and aero - quite minor but still measurable - additional energy losses due to chain articulation, I recall several tests where 2x were proven superior even by few watts over 1x; maybe not such big difference here with so oversized chainring, can work for pro-rider (depending on route profile, too) still with 1x worse chain alignment would be observed on extreme ratios, using which is rather unavoidable i.e. in the mountains
Suspect Ineos were using the classified hub, because using a 2x system with a giant 60t chainring, it will shift like rubbish between big and little chainrings.
Furthermore, you could simplify the left hand shifter/brake lever to just a simple brake lever ==> weight saving and probably aero improvements too.
Another point, if you want to lower even more the weight and improve the aero, you should go to a .5 to 1 ratio instead of a .7 to 1. Then you change the cassette to an 11-21 (11 speed), when in the .5 ratio it is like multiplying by 2 the cassette, which would become a 22-42. Therefore, you'd have 22 real speeds 11x42, 11 to 22 by 1 tooth and 22 to 42 by 2 teeth. Assuming you're running a 53 front chainring, 53x42 is just a tad harder than a 39x31 ratio.
You get the advantage on the flat of 1 tooth between all the gears, and climbing 2 teeth between all the gears, much closer gear ratios to find your perfect cadence.
The cassette being smaller is lighter, the chain is also shorter, all weight savings and aero benefits. AND you can run a very short derailleur cage too, lighter more aero too.
For me Classified didn't go far enough in their innovation.
Weight on the Classified hub can't be a big issue as it's placed enter wheel, where the impact is minimal, I think 🙂
Can the gear ratio in the Classified Hub be changed? Is it lighter than a front mech and double chainset? If the answers to these questions are no then it won't replace the front mech for open road bunched racing.
I'll bet 99.999999% of people who ride bicycles couldn't name a pro biker let alone care what bike components they may or may not be using. Excluding Lance of course as we all know him as the sly fox who won 7 tour de France races. Otherwise all other pro bikers are pretty much unknown to most. I could be wrong though. Love your fix it channel :)
My next road bike is going to be equipped with classified 👍. Much cleaner setup. The interesting question is, will the new SRAM Red shifters be able to work natively with classified?
Oooo now that is a nice set up 🤤
You could clean the white bar tape with whitening toothpaste. Works super nice