The Big Questions In Climbing Nutrition: Protein, Recovery & Vegetarians
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Nutrition for climbing can be quite a complex topic - in a way it's very similar to the physical training. There's a lot of moving parts which interact with each other in a multitude of ways and many of us spend years trying to understand how it all works!
In today's video we've got Tom sat down with Mina and really dialling things back to "the basics" in terms of nutrition. What are those key things that really make a BIG difference and items that you should aim to address as a matter of priority. For sure, there are some interesting, geeky things that can be done with supplements, micronutrients, periodisation and diet strategies, but we'd like to point out that these things should ONLY be focused on once you've sorted many of the items/themes in this discussion today.
If you're unsure if you're hitting these key areas yourself, have a look at Mina's bespoke nutritional reports which are at the cutting edge of what's being done in climbing nutrition at the moment. Everything is built into our own platform, you submit food diaries, we break it all down and tell you want really matters going forward. Even if you're not interested in working on a 1:1 nutritional plan afterwards, there's so much value and detail to use in your training AND performance!
Intro: (0:00)
Advice on nutritional intake for climbers: (0:47)
Signs of under-fueling: (4:18)
How long before a session should you eat?: (6:18)
Advice for vegetarians: (8:55)
Is whey protein useful?: (12:23)
Nutrition tips for people who spend lots of time working: (13:24)
Advice for recovery: (16:30)
Outro: (20:10)
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I can’t not just stare at the crocs when they’re in view 😩 haha
they are beautiful
Very hippie
With climbing videos/channels I feel like I'm the only climber who needs to lose weight, not gain
I have a body type that likes to put on muscle and fat. It’s very hard for me to maintain a calories deficit and stay somewhat lean. I have to go on long runs several times a week because I refuse to steadily starve myself.
@@bryanbryan6108 I recently watched Dave McLeod's video on keto from quite a while ago, where he talks about himself having had that same problem, even while expending loads of energy as a professional athlete and keto completely solving it for him. Might be interesting to you as well.
@@bryanbryan6108 mate I'm sorry, but in order to lose weight, you will have to "starve" yourself.. By that I don't mean eat a tin of tuna and an apple a day and nothing else. But you cannot lose weight without being in a caloric deficit. Wether you do it by expending more or decreasing your intake really doesn't matter for the weight loss.
However, you do reach a max of how much you can increase expenditure, since there is a limit to how much you can recover from.
Also I personally find it much easier to skip a meal, than to go for a 10 mile run
@@TheTMschannel well they were saying how they expend more so that they don’t have to cut their intake as drastically. I think the way you’re using ‘starve’ is very different from the way the original comment was using it. Expending more will put you in a caloric deficit.
This was such a great video! It was great to go over the general things to be thinking about in your diet. I normally just eat when I’m hungry and don’t think much about what I’m eating!
Thank you Mina for your time and expertise! Super well summed up :)
This has been an eyeopener for me. I just realized that I‘m chronically underfueled. Thanks a lot!
Glad to hear it’s been useful
What an interesting video and some really useful answers. Thanks!
Me watching this video while I'm eating a massive burger sums up my attitude to nutrition
Hey we’ve all done it! 😅
Nothing's wrong with that. A (good quality) Burger has everything you need: protein, fat, carbohydrate.
i should eat more burgers.... I am trying to gain mass. Without success :( I eat around 2500 calories a day and still just my lanky (1.86m) 69 kg self
@@siccodewilt1 a little lighter than you, but multiple body composition scans have suggested my resting metabolic rate is over 2500 calories a day and has been increasing. May need to genuinely consume more as I think I get above 3000
Yes to burgers 3 times a week minimum !
Very informative video! Thank you!
Where does fat burning and calorie deficit fit into the big picture. Climbers like to stay lean where as body builders or people who lift weights generally do bulking and cutting cycles. If you are consuming enough or more than enough protein but running a calorie deficit will you still build muscle? Also one other question. Whats the downside to fasting and then consuming rather large numbers of calories in a relatively short amount of time?
@@Zzzzzzzzzzzzjjjj thank you so much for the info!! I need to study much more about nutrition. Its such a complex subject but this info is greatNd i will try to get my hands on that book!! Thanks again!!
Do you guys do a podcast? These episodes would be great to listen to on the move.
When I tune into a UK-based sports performance group, I expect to hear about beetroot juice!
Only kidding, great stuff here. Nice to hear discussion of caffeine as an ergogenic aid. I think many coaches understand it is one of the very few purported ergogenic aids that actually has an empirically observable effect, but often the focus seems to be on the "energy" or mental acuity effects of caffeine. Most of us use it to "wake up" but don't realize the potent beneficial effects on intramuscular calcium handling and subsequent force production (what climbers really care about). I think you are educating athletes on a level that only a tiny fraction of sports performance experts can manage. Kudos.
Thanks! 😊
For reference , where does Tom's jacket sit on the hydration indication colour scale ? 😁
Good video thanks.
😂 It’s at “drink 2 cups of weak tea immediately!”
This is amazing!!!
It would be interesting to know how you calculate your general daily needs. I know it's very specific to each individual but I've been trying to find some kind of "formula" across internet on which I could base my nutritional plan and adjust then if necessary and I couldn't find a single one from a reliable source.
Also thanks for the great content, your channel is a gold mine for whoever is interested in climbing 👍👌
It's called your base (or basal) metabolic rate. There are plenty of online calculators to give you an estimate, but they are of course crude as all individuals vary and activity level can make a huge difference. If you want to actually do anything with the answer you'll probably end up counting calories too, which takes a lot of motivation. Good luck!
Look up a TDEE calculator
really liked it
It was 16hr between eating and my climbing sessions today
Really interesting. Thanks! Any advice for post-session recovery meals when you mostly train in the evening? I sometimes don't get back from a session until 9:30PM/ 10:00PM, and find that eating at that time can interfere with my sleep.
Also interested in this...
Come and get involved with something like Lattice 365! This is exactly the type of support and discussion we have going on over there 😊
@@LatticeTraining Haha! Nice plug! I have been considering it actually. Just with everything being so up in the air atm in terms of access to training facilities (we're currently in lockdown in Wales), it's difficult to make any sort of commitment...
@@ZeroOneKarl :-D
Eat an almost full meal sometime before the training and throw in a protein bar or shake and maybe BCAA’s during or right after and see if that interferes with sleep at all
What are your thoughts on deload phases?
It looks like I have almost all the signs of under-fueling (especially the resorting to caffeine and difficulty in recovering after a hard session). Yet for the current standards I have some body fat that I could get rid of (even though I'm for sure not overweight). So the question is, could you still be under-fueled and yet have not-optimal body composition?
Yes.
It'd be useful to hear how climbers can consume adequate fuel while on a weight cut. For my part, I've cut 5 kg in 4 months (185 cm tall, 97 kg to 92 kg) without ever feeling hungry, but in the last two weeks I've had wretched sleep from waking up hungry in the middle of the night. I've tried eating more to get my sleep on track but so far no luck. The part about sleep loss is admittedly specific but balancing weight cutting with fueling workouts seems applicable to many climbers.
1) does it matter which macronutrient (fat Vs carb) we use for most of our calories after a work out?
2) lentils + rice, quinoa, chickpeas are carb bombs and to get enough protein you end up getting a lot of calories, is there a way around it?
1) I think carb is more important as it refuels the glycogen stores in the muscles. Fat cannot do that as effiecently
2) That is where Tofu might come in handy. It has a higher protein/carb ratio. However, it still contains some carbs. If you worry about that, try a protein supplement such as pea/rice protein
1). Ideally you want to focus on replenishing carbohydrates, especially if it’s a higher intensity work out. That said, include some healthy fats in there as they are great for your body too.
2). If you are an omnivore then there are other less calorie/carb dense sources of protein like fish, meats, dairy and eggs. If vegan then plant based sources are your options.
Add cheese 🧀
@Abel Abel tofu is actually pretty lean, but if you want more leaner vegan protein sources then seitan and TVP are great. if you want more fatty protein sources, tempeh is a good one
Would love to know what the take on intermittent fasting in terms of recovery does. E.g. Train on an evening then not eating until lunch the next day?
You need to eat
I've been doing intermittent fasting for most of this year and it's actually improved my performance and energy levels. However I always eat after training so try to time my workouts around my fasting schedule. I've noticed I actually have more energy when training fasted but I know it's different for each individual.
Is there any issue with antioxidants (eg vitamin C) inhibiting training adaptations? By reducing inflammation, aren't they also reducing the signal to the body to get stronger?
Yes, research has shown that high doses of antioxidants (participants vitamins C and E) can blunt endurance training adaptations. I wouldn’t supplement at high doses alongside high training loads but the levels you get from fruit and vegetables is fine.
I hope Lattice would make a video of energy expenditure during climbing! Like an average kcal per minute.
My theory is that it is so low in total kcal/energy output that you do not burn your Glycogen storage :P It will be fun to see what the science says :)
You can find the METs values for climbing via google if you have a search 😊
How do you all feel about intermittent fasting?
How cold is it in that room
👍
It just dawned on me that Tom is the British spin-off Alex Honnold
I wish I was less aware of nutrition.
vein in the doods neck be lit
Long term ketosis, no need to worry so much about when to eat, since blood sugar stays extremely stable at all times. However is there any obvious drawback once you are fully keto adapted?
The crocs
should i be counting my cal?
Did Mina kill a pack of mud puppies on the way to the interview?
We should not take milk lightly though because it is often hard for our body’s to digest and can harm our digestive systems and or cause different problems for certain people
green crocks
& no bonking & for recovery cold showers😘
most seeds have bad fat profiles, honestly stay away from pufas, most foods have bad omega 3/6 profiles expect for chia , flax, and hemp. good fats are more saturated and mono unsaturated.
Kind of curious about how much she jumps to carbohydrates as a source of energy. Given that low-carb and even no-carb diets are so popular these days, I think that can't be entirely accurate. I myself have been doing a very low carb diet for a while and have felt fairly successful in my climbing.
dave macloud is a low carb guy and he also has carbs after a training session, i think
my interpretation is that you might not even need much carbs after training, but that she is saying just dont eat zero carbs. e.g. dont only eat a salad or dont only eat an egg etc.
(just wanna say hi to a fellow ultimate player who also climbs)
@@benja_mint I eat zero carbs and climb 2x week, workout 3x week, cardio 2-4x a week just fine.
@@arinaapetyan6637 Hi 😊😊 eccentric sport athletes unite!
Was only giving my interpretation of what she and others said. As a vegetarian, low/no carb would be almost impossible for me so I never even looked into it, don't know anything about it
Pea protein is the way, no need for meat or dairy
It’s not complete, and it messes with people’s digestion. There is also the industrial mono crop agriculture which is terrible for the soil and surrounding biome.
@cornerstonedome what do you mean it's not complete? Life is about the lesser of two evils, most things are bad for the Earth in one form or another, do you really think pea agriculture is worse than cow?
@@corneliousism They are complete. All plant proteins have all essential amino acids. We also have amino acid pools to draw from. All humans need to do is to eat enough calories. Unfortunately, Mina in the video is wrong and proteins combining myth was debunked decades ago. See ua-cam.com/video/Fhyfa48bK28/v-deo.html
milk is for babies, the whole "complete protein profile" thing has been debunked. theres no such thing as an incomplete protein source when it comes to real food. some lack in certain ammio acids but the body will store what it lacks and use what is more abundant. obivously if your eating only potatoes your entire life its going to be a problem, but if you eat just potatoes one day, just rice the next day, just almond butter the next, and just bread or oats the next, all those different types of amino profiles will most certainly satisfy the demand for growth. you do not need to mix different types of protien profiles for each meal.
Milk is also for grown ass people
@@apc3n lol no
@@apc3n milk comes from lactating females. It's designed for babies for rapid growth. As babies and children grow they're less adept to process the milk. Some less than others genetically as it's been proven. Sure you can eat it but you could also survive of fat food. Also grains aren't the best either. Mother is kale or spinach. The search continues
@@timtaylor9590Makes me wanna slam a glass of some nice 3%
1. Complete proteins have not been 'debunked', yes more recent studies show that you can store amino acids, and you so not required a complete protein profile for every meal. however the quality of proteins is going to make a big difference to your overall protein requirements. Eating complete protein meal after a workout is also a good idea.
2. Humans have been eating dairy for over 10000 years and have evolved lactase persistence to better facilitate consumption. Grains, nuts and leaves might also not 'intend' to be consumed. They are the limbs and children of an organism after all. The idea of intention within food products makes no sense whatsoever and there are much better arguments for reducing dairy consumption.
I eat 100% carnivore (meat, fish,eggs and butter) but no milk. Milk is for growing babies, and even when digestible for adults (few of us), it has too much sugars.The best food for all humans and especially athletes is ruminant meat. I am climbing solid 8a/b well into my 60's and get perfect recovery completely free from soreness and injury (not injured in 28 years of climbing 8a or better).
Since you are saying meat is the best food for all humans I assume you can back up your claims with scientific evidence and studies/reports? Or are you just assuming since it works fine for you it should also work for everybody else?
Also I wonder why so many of the best athletes in the world especially in climbing are either on a vegetarian or vegan diet. Alex Honnold and Gerlinde Kaltenbrunner for example, 2 of the most outstanding athletes of our time. Even Adam Ondra barely ever eats meat
Good for you that you’ve found something that works.
@@DerButzemann94 Young climbers are subject to food fads when they first start addressing nutrition, and meatless is the pushed the hardest from every angle. I was veggie age 15-29 myself (first wave of veggie fads in the '70s/80s; lots of tofu and yoga lol). Ondra tried vegan but started to get injured and seems to include at least fish more regularly. Meat is considered politically incorrect in certain circles, a big factor. On the other hand, Japanese climbers eat lots and lots of meat fish and eggs, and are the best as a group on the competitive scene.
When you are young and gifted and train very high volume, many can tolerate plant carbs better, but it is still not optimal. As you age, more animal protein becomes essential to train hard and stay lean.
@@terraflow__bryanburdo4547 Certainly seems like you put thought into your opinion on this, but it seems to be an opinion after all and not backed up with research. I've yet to stumble on a study which proves meat consumption actually makes you stronger than a balanced vegetarian diet. It simply doesnt make sense to me why it would, since theres nothing in meat that you cant find in other food sources. So yet again, I think you should do your homework first before stating "meat is the best food for all humans"
Too bad a plantbased diet is explained as being complicated. 👎 It's not - it's super easy to be plantbased once you've learn where to find full protein or how to combine different sources and there are plenty of athletes out there thriving on a plantbased diet! Dairy products contain estrogen, and there are studies out there showing that milk increases risk for prostate cancer in men and breast cancer in women. But as the dairy industry is such a political loaded question there is little interest in revising dietary guidelines. Time will tell, but one can ask why on earth baby calf milk would be healthy for grown-up human beings. Makes no sense whatsoever.
First comment after he said he is cutting out meat. „You need to take care of your protein“ .....
The way she adress this is just bad. It doesn’t matter which life style you have you always need to take care of you do a lot of sport.