The slot card is a 40 yrs old design, and it's intended for cards much smaller than the mainboard. They should develop a new connection standard where the user is free to place the gpu anywhere inside the case or outside.
More than 40 even, expansion cards with an edge connector that slots into a plastic socket on a main board actually date back over 60 years to the IBM 1401, which launched in 1959.
Have you ever seen ISA cards? And I don't just mean graphics cards. But daughter boards, sound cards, professioal ones with MIDI-Controllers etc. And the "micro-chips" of the eighties and nineties were heavy..... Some of those cards are huge chonkers, the size is not a problem, the size and weight of the air cooling solutions is. Pretty much all exetension cards of today are either smaller and lighter or lighter than their 80s or 90s counterparts, or equal in weight with EMI Shielding. The only exceptions are graphics cards, and nvme SSD extension cards, in both cases due to their cooling solutions. I think bothof you seem, due to your comments, have only ever worked with post-2000 Hardware. The mid-noughties were indeed a period of maximum lightness though, which while it wasn't the minimum that the extension card form factor was designed for, did almost certainly influence the design of PCIe and it's sockets. And even back the there were critical voices that thought that the x1 slot, the back then most used one would be too short for a proper mechanical connection.
Really appreciate the extra care to tackle a subject that is very important to a certain subsect of the community, namely the SFF people, but not at all the larger “catch-all” crowd. Hope the channel is going great and everyone is having a great holiday!
This video is a lifesaver! After spending a couple days and trying out two different Phanteks riser cables for my vertical GPU bracket, I changed the PCIE settings from Auto to 3.0 on my B550 Tomahawk and it works!! Thank you so much!
Imagine having a perfect hard line custom loop and you flash the BIOS to discover the riser cable will add 2 hours of reassembly just to change 1 BIOS setting. One of Dante's circles for sure!
5:55 "As far as I'm aware there is not a single case on the market right now that comes equipped with a PCIe gen 4 riser cable inside the box". Funnily enough, the Dan A4-SFX, the case shown off at 0:59 and 11:57, actually does come with a PCIe Gen 4 riser with it's latest revision, and for me at least it worked flawlessly out of the box with a b550 mobo and an RTX 3000 GPU.
I actually came back after a day ago from watching this; just because I wanted to say thank you so freaking much. I was only knees almost in tears, because I bought a pcie 3.0 vertical mount for my system which by standard is 4.0 I also had a bios update right after I installed the mount; so I sat there thinking it had to be that install. I was going back and forth trying to reboot 50x over and I even reinstalled windows twice; all to find out that it was the riser cable. Not the windows install that was causing the black screens/freezes. Simply changing the bios setting from auto to 3.0 fixed the issue. You sir are an angel and deserve way way way more credit than anyone can give you.
The only riser cable I've been able to find that is Gen4 is made by LinkUp. A 20cm right angle cable runs just under $60 USD on Amazon. It's frickin ridiculous! So far, everything works just fine if I keep the one PCI-E x16 slot locked down to Gen3 on an Asus X570 Crosshair VIII Hero with a Sapphire Nitro+ SE RX 5700XT. I went through all the trial and error testing on my own rig when I first got my 5700XT about 9 months ago and everything led to the riser cable. I've told people about this and they just blew it off and kept blaming the drivers. I'm really happy to see someone in the media mainstream backing this up.
Watching this on my phone (and not even fullscreen at times), it's so easy to overlook the mad amount of detail that goes into every single A/B roll you guys shoot. When I log into UA-cam on a nicer 1440p monitor however, everything just pops! Other channels fumble so much more with their video production, but here it's always crystal clear, silky smooth, colour-corrected to the nth degree and overlaid with some of the best audio work around. Soooo much respect for the hard work and astounding skill level from HWC, hope you guys can continue to grow in 2021 and get every ounce of the recognition you deserve!
I allways get DPC latency issues with riser cables. My system starts to produce wierd audio and video stutters. Doesn't matter if the cable is cheap or expensive.
As a service Technician, I thank you. Was seeing this issue most on the Thermaltake cables with their VIEW line of cases. Plenty of good cards getting blamed. When some customer assembled builds came in for diagnostic and a riser cable was used, we go for the cable first.
I'm in this boat. I could not get my Gigabyte Z390 or my new GB Z690 to work on Auto Gen in X16, I know Compatability is sketchy but mobo manufacturers need to start listing compatibility for this issue
I used a Gen 3 riser cable a few hours ago to pair with my 3080. Ended in disaster caused my mobo to go into a inescapable boot loop, even when plugging the GPU directly back into the mobo. Always change the gen of PCIE in the bios when using one of these cables is what I've learned, or better still take the plunge and buy a true Gen 4 riser cable. It saves a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted.
Louqe includes a gen4 riser cable in the ghost s1. also, it has become mainstream in europe... but its still expensiv. a new gen4 riser from louqe also coasts 60€ btw, and the riser looks weird
I bought it separately for a Build I wanted to do. But changed the case and no longer need it, so I have not tried it out. But they're definately available!
@@perdomot They're available every once in a while on Amazon. Just picked one up last week. They post updates on their Twitter feed for when they'll have inventory available in different locations.
Great video! 2 weeks ago after installing a 3060Ti in my Thermaltake Core G3 case I went through this issue. It would work perfectly until you went to run something that really taxed the system like Time Spy, Port Royal etc... where it would just fail randomly. I tried everything to figure out what was causing it. On the bench with the card plugged directly into the MB it was fine, but with a different MB, RAM, CPU, PSU, fresh install of Win10 etc... and then 6 different riser cables from 4 different manufacturers (including 2 Thermaltake cables that were supposed to be the same as what came with the G3 case) and only the original cable would display anything at all. Finally I put the system back to how it originally was and contacted Thermaltake tech support and after a few back and forth e-mails they suggested switching to Gen 3 PCI, it was on auto, I switched it to Gen 3 and bam fixed...
I went into the build expecting to encounter this issue, but I'm one of the lucky ones. Raijintek Ophion w/ PCIE3 riser with RX6800 XT (PCIE4) and ASUS B550i (PCIE4) booted up fine. I did use the same NVME drive that already had Radeon drivers pre-installed while on a motherboard with PCIE3.
I cannot thank you enough. I was about to RMA my Aorus WB 3080, I motherboard mounted it and ran some new tubing, and NO MORE BSODS, NO MORE BLACK SCREENS OR CRASHING. I’m so happy. I’m looking forward to coverage on gen 4 riser cables.
Bought a gen 4 pcie and a thermaltake s300 and it works surprisingly well. Gpu stays at 65c under full load. S300 has plenty of room between the vertically mounted gpu and glass
have to say thank you so much...had a riser sitting around trying to figure out how to get it to work for awhile and then your ASUS options did the trick... thank you now I got better air flow in my 011 dynamic...Thank you!!!
First, let me say it's stupid that these are being called "riser" cables. They're extension cables, not risers. A riser is a rigid daughterboard. Second, automatic version setting on the slot does not mean it negotiates a slower speed when the connection is bad. It's not a modem or ethernet cable. The version used is the maximum supported by both the system and the peripheral. If you plug a revision 4 card into a revision 4 slot, then the slot is going to run at revision 4. The simple passthrough extension cable doesn't change that negotiation. It just breaks the system when the signal degrades too much to be usable.
Well, what to call a cable that does the exactly same thing as a riser, but is a cable? A "riser-like cable"? A "cable that does what a riser does"? A "cable that functions the same way as the rigid cards we're calling risers"? Why not "riser cable"?
It completely depends on the case you use it in. My case has a stock PCIe 3.0 riser card, it has to be used due to the case layout (as in it raises the card above the socket), can't use the stock card because it doesn't work with PCIe 4.0. it has to be used due to how the card mounts in the case (well above the PCIe slot) so yeah it's a riser cable
Netluxe TV It has been working without any issue! I tried a riser cable from LINKUP as well, but that wasn’t a good experience when forcing PCIE gen 4 in the BIOS/UEFI.
D'Mitry, good rant sir. I am impressed by your multiple shooting days for this video. Took me a minute to notice the differences because you hid them so well. Here's to 2021 and I am excited for all your next level video content sir.
I use direct too.. We have sagging problems. Think we need a new ATX form. This form factor design by Intel is from the dinosaur ages, when graphics cards were light with 40mm fans😄.
I'll place a formal request to the editors of tech channels in general. Please make a few macros to display a little description when an acronym is used for first time each video, just a tiny text in a corner that stays for 2 seconds. Like "PSU: Power Supply Unit." Because you guys are forgetting about the people only trying to get into PC building for the first time, throwing acronyms around like we all are experts already. Make it welcoming for new people.
I just upgraded to a Ryzen 5 from FX-6300 and new mobo. Transferred my RX 580 and dealt with crazy instability/crashes/freezing/restarting. Removed the riser cable and it's fine now. This video is my validation I've made a solid decision to stop vertically mounting my card.
Few months ago I did just about the same. From an FX system to a R 5, even have an rx 580. Thing is I built in a glass side panel case. Back of the gpu isn't as aesthetically pleasing as the MB. For a bit more coin I can get a custom gpu backplate. Seems to me an acrylic plate would be more of a heat problem as these cards run hot as it is.
6:40 - Because of manufacturing tolerance and variations. Very interesting to see how such small margins in something that passes QC for PCI-E 3.0 makes the difference for 4.0
Welcome to the world of signal integrity. In electronics clock lines are very critical and based on the materials and purity of the cable this can create issues such as drift and even signal loss.
@@whitest_kyle Same here. I have one from Linkup running my 6900 XT, with SAM(Resizable Bar) enabled and working. 0 issues. But yeah 100+ for a cable is expensive.
Mine is Gen3 but I built a PC with the Thermaltake Core P5 and before getting it, I've read reviews. All reviewers said, the supplied riser cable is awful and almost everyone has problems with it. They recommended to get the premium riser cable from Thermaltake and with that one I didn't have any problems in the past 2 years.
This video is a life-saver. Was getting a black screen on boot with my new 3070 plugged in through the NR200P riser cable, and was genuinely confused, as the graphics card was getting power and seemed to be running. Plugged in my old RX 470, went to the BIOS on my B550i, changed to Gen. 3, and voilà: got the all too familiar ‘Insert boot media’. Gonna be interesting going forward to see Gen. 4 riser cables, and how they price in relation to current ones. Thanks!
Ugh, it's such a pain! Especially when you update the BIOS and it resets to its default settings. It takes 30 minutes to try and change the PCIEx16 to Gen 3. I emailed NZXT asking if they will make a PCI-E Gen 4 riser cable, and they've said that they have no plans to do so in the future.
Among all the tech-channels I follow you are the only ones who have already covered this issue, yet. Thank you for covering it! While it does not impact my own build, because I prefer to let my graphics card breathe, I advise people on PC hardware in my job and there are enough people out there who will be glad to have someone tell them about this.
Optimum tech is another one that brought up this issue. He mainly focuses on SFF stuff so it makes sense that you've probably never heard of him. But he did a video about this a while ago. You won't see something like this from mainstream youtubers cause they are usually making big builds. And if they did SFF builds they were not putting 5000series GPUs in them, they were putting 2080s in there. Which does not cause the issue, since they are only PCIE gen 3.
I almost smash my new ROG RTX 3080 TI OC 12G!!! I have been getting a lot of problems like BLACK SCREEN, No Video Card detected, Code 43, Load vender.dll fail error Please install VGA driver error! I have Install and uninstall drivers lots of times and the only problem is this RISER CABLE!!!!! As soon as I remove the RISER CABLE and put the GPU directly IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you get a chance to chat with a MOBO manufacturer, I think a cool feature would be if you don't have anything installed (cpu/gpu/ram/storage), the bios would still come up when pluging into the onboard HDMI, regardless of what components are installed and working. It might cost $5-$10 in parts to make it work, but it definitely would be a value add.
It's not just Gen 4 GPU to Gen 4 MoBo. I have a 2080Ti on an x570 normally working fine without issues using the riser cable. However certain GPU intensive games ether crash or BSOD for some reason. I decided to remove the riser cable yesterday, and behold. System was much more stable on heavy GPU load.
I removed my riser cable after watching this video and noticing on the Superposition benchmark that my GPU wouldn't go above 60 degrees. I plugged it directly into the motherboard and immediately achieved a score several thousand points higher and temperatures increased to 75 degrees because my card can actually work now. I couldn't overclock the card previously and my OC is working now. I should have dumped this cable long ago. Thanks Hardware Canucks!
Broooo! I was having so much trouble with my computer after upgrading my cpu. I was this close to RMA'ing my graphics card!! But this video solved my problem!! I did everything! I refreshed bios, reinstalled windows.. this was the only thing that helped! Got rid of the corsair riser cable I was using and now the computer works perfectly! Thank you Dimitri!
I am a pre-computer era person and somewhere along the way I do remember it being public knowledge that there is an electrical formula that you use to adjust timing for the length of the trace. So to me that makes sense. Now the real question to ask is when will MFG's and OEM's allow you to adjust that timing in the case of extenders. I guess that could be a feature that people would pay money for, so it seems like they would eventually implement it, but who knows, copyright crap has ruined countries even and I can not even express how copyright has destroyed electronics repair and information regarding board design.
Link up has a gen 4 cable. I have 15cm riser and it cost $60 from Amazon. Plugged it in and it booted right up didn’t have to switch from gen 3 to 4 in bios. Running a 3800x with a evga ftw3 3090. My gen 3 cable gave me issues at first.
I just had to explain all these issues to a friend of mine when he asked me "Why dont you have your gpu in a vertical mount?" Until it gets to be more reliable im not doing it.
Only watercooled GPU should be mounted vertically anyway, it's not great when it comes to thermals. It's hard to understand for me why would people hinder performances for looks, I mean it's not a car, only you can see it and when you use it you don't look at it at the same time anyway, I can somewhat understand adding custom bodies on cars, weights more but looks better, waste of money too for a performance hit (slower+more gas, longer braking distance) but you get people to look at you I guess.
i think it depends on the case. i have a sharkoon case with a vertical mounted GPU. When full load my 2060 reaches max 75 degrees, but it also takes me 2 sec to open the front glass panel since i have my pc on my desk. At full load the gpu reaches max 68 degress when front panel is open. Now i have 3 intake at the bottom which is case fans, im gonna swap them with aftermarket fans in January
@@tacticalcenter8658 That depends entirely on the individuals case. A vert GPU in my case would probably fair better as my bottom fans would blow directly onto the heat grills whilst the GPU would still have at least 5-7cm gap in front of it, so when the GPU fans come on it would be getting cool air from the front and the bottom, rather than right now it only getting air from the bottom.
@@HalfDayHero depends on many factors. Doubtful that your opinion is going to make a difference. The only way a side mount is going to work is if you convert the PCI express area to the very mount. But not the extra vert mounts next to the glass on the majority of cases even if it looks like you might have enough room. Even bottom fans don't help on those. Look at fluid dynamics modeling software. It's just not going to go where you want it to go based on looking at it. It's been tested outside of cfd software as well showing no benefits. You can try a baffle to force air on the one side but this can be a bit weird in some cases and being that it's going so narrow it might not want to go that direction, but this all depends on all sorts of factors. Overall it's not idea. There may be some exceptions, but overall it's a pipe dream.
The same day you upload the video I get my PCI 3.0 riser cable by cooler master. I have the AMD r9 390 GPU ...when I install the riser cable and I open a 4k video or a game my GPU crash everytime the GPU usage goes 100%. After a long searching I found your video and I change my PCI slot Gen from the noon to 2.0 from 3.0 and that works perfectly without fps dropping. So if somebody have the same problem as me change your Gen slot PCI to 2.0 if you have 3.0 or to 3.0 If you have 4.0 . (My MSI x370 gaming pro carbon motherboard didn't have that option so I updated the bios to the lates beta version ) thank you for the video Dimitri ❤️
Having a Phanteks shift, I had issues when I plugged my 5700xt in and I had to return it. The cable I later found was the problem (I can only assume the cable couldn't provide some power or data for the GPU, even in gen 3 mode for the mobo I had crashes). I hope more companies make gen 4 cards now that both brands make PCIe gen 4 cards.
@@ThiccNutt it's a risk we shouldn't take, I can sort of understand since most cases don't rely on the cables like in my case, which leads to less of a need to make them, but then again people keep wanting to waste money to make their GPUs look different and then they get the gen 3 cables and make things worse. It's a mess right now.
Omg dude yes. Even prior to gen 4, the Shift consistently had riser cable issues. I can't tell you how many RMA's and riser cable swaps I had to do just to get things working
@@Smashologist Thats a major bummer! Thankfully I got a free gen 3 cable from them when it shipped with a pcie gen 2 cable and I verbally stated to them its shocking theyd ship old tec with a new case, so far no issues with my 3.0 cable thankfully.
As far as I remember, the Dan A4 that you held in your hand in the beginning of the video comes in it’s recent version with a 3m PCIe gen4 riser cable.
Thank you so much!!!!!!! I’ve spent the last 2 hours trying to figure it out. I have the ASUS TUF GAMING X570-Plus. I upgraded my case to the Thermaltake P3 and it was my first time dealing with Riser Cables. My RTX 3090 Founders Edition finally works again. I did exactly as you explained in the video, went into the bios and changed AUTO to Gen3. Everything now works! Thanks again!
Thanks so much for this video @Hardware Canucks! This video really helped me especially building everything externally before putting it in the case. However, for those out there who may still have boot issues, I had to enable PCIe Bifurcation in order for the system to boot. This may be due to 2 x M.2 Nvme ssd installed. I have the latest bios for my B550-i from Asus (2403).
Hey man, an absolute thanks for this. I have custom water cooled my PC and for months I have random issues with my PC of Asrock X570 Taichi and Phanteks Riser Cable and 5700XT. It works sometime, but BSOD and random boot issues are driving me mad. RMAed my ram, did a lot of A-B testing, took it out for checking in computer shop, disassembled my PC completely and reseated everything, and finally reached a conclusion that it is the riser cable to blame. A painful lesson it certainly is.
I had a phanteks riser cable connected to my 3080 and at first saw some artifacting at times when playing, then it stopped booting, I troubleshoot it and found out it was the riser cable. Now I know the reason why the riser cable failed, thank you!!
A year or two ago: Don't use vertical GPUs, they're horrible for thermals and can have issues with reliability Now: WTF these things are awful for thermals and reliability!!
Thanks for posting this. I was beside myself trying to find the source of the slow bios screen updates and the blue screens. It didn't add up. I exchanged the card as defective and the same thing happened again. Finally started suspecting the riser as the cause when I stumbled on your video. The fact that you could downgrade the PCIE gen4 to gen3 was new to me. It finally brought an end to a two day investigation.
Uhm isn't the problem that the riser cables are just 3.0 and you are trying to connect a 4.0 motherboard and 4.0 gpu together? You need a 4.0 riser cable, or you have to go to your bios and set your PCI-E to 3.0 (because of the riser cable).
@@masterpNL1983 FFS man, obviously this video is made for people who don't know about such things... If you are such an expert, why are you watching beginner videos? Just reading the comments here, it's again obvious several people came across this exact issue and were helped by this video. If you don't want help, and don't want to offer any yourself, why are you here?
@@OriginalMergatroid Lmao! Such a frustration. This got nothing to do with a beginner video or expert level, it's just common sence - 1+1 = 2. Same thing you could wonder is why won't you get USB 3.0 speed if you are using a USB 2.0 Cable in a 3.0 slot. Common sense. And read the manual if you are buying a 3.0 riser cable, it's all mentioned in the manual. So, this video is f.. useless.
Is time remove the slot type PCIE and make a new standard cable link between GPU n motherboard. Imagine the possibility of customization without the need to "Slot" your GPU.
I got a Linkup 4.0 riser around 4 or 5 months ago when I got my 5700xt (sapphire nitro+ ... whatever the f it's called). Works great. If Amazon runs out, just get in touch with Linkup and they will make one to your specs and it will come fairly quickly. It was about 90 bucks when I got it but I wanted to take advantage of the whole 4.0 infrastructure these days... storage, CPU and GPU.
This is Not Only a Problem with PCIe 4.0, I also Had a Problem with PCIe 3.0 especially with the Phanteks Risers. They are pretty poorly shielded, so i Had Problems with some GTX 700 i owned, namely a 770 Lightning and a 780 FE. I head weird Lock ups during startup or no Video Output at all... When i switched to a GTX 970 FE the Problem was solved. I was on the Phone with EVGA, Asus, Phanteks, my retailer and even Nvidia didn't know what was going on. Riser cables usually add a Lot of Problems, especially the Low Quality ones, but in some cases there are necessary...
I don't trust those pcie extension cable at all. As you mentioned, maybe there were some performance or compatibility issues, and it's NOT a riser, A small PCB with a bunch of components hard soldered, that's a riser. It's expensive but it guarantees performance and safety. Thank you for bringing up this topic to the public.
My linkups Ultra PCIe 4.0 riser cable has been working flawlessly no performance degradation seen. My case is a node 202, so it came with a PCIe riser card that doesn't work with PCIe 4.0 and caused all kinds of issues. Went with Linkups and haven't had an issue since. I've put many hours of gaming on the system since I've installed the riser cable with absolutely no issues. The longest gaming sessions I've put into my system at any one times was 27 hours.
Did you have problems even when you went back to 3.0? I'm having BSOD even when setting the motherboard to use PCIE 3, I have the linkups arriving tomorrow so I really hope this will help.
I was having these symptoms with an ASUS 3080 TUF. After a ton of testing, I sent it back to ASUS on an RMA. Waiting to hear back from them. Maybe this is it all along!
Most likely! Have a 3080 TUF as well. Just posted my story here as well. You wouldn't believe the shit I've gone through. Also 2 out of 4 RAM sticks where DOA, so that made it even more complicated. And having a custom loop was very time consuming to take it apart every single time. Working fine since setting to GEN 3. Glad he posted this video, a lot more would have had this issue in the future
I found this out pretty quick with my x570 and rx5600xt, but not before I sent the cable back to thermaltake because I knew the gpu was good. Sadly gen 4 riser cables are more expensive and not really worth it to me.
I ran into this issue 6mos ago with my X570 Tomahawk and Aorus RX5700XT using an EZ-DIY Riser in a Define R6. It would reach post and access BIOS but frequently crashed loading Windows/was unstable. Thankfully the BIOS has a manual PCIe Gen3 switch, been rock stable since.
I have the Cooler master Vertical GPU bracket Version 2, which runs flawless without any problems or errors so far, not even after long intensive gaming sessions. I did however have to manually set the PCI-E X16 mode to Gen 3. I recommend the following: 1. Put the graphics card directly into the motherboard slot. 2. boot your PC and install the GPU drivers. 3. Set the PCI-E X16 mode to Gen 3 in the BIOS. 4. Boot your PC again to see if it works with Gen 3. 5. Install vertical GPU bracket. Should work instantly without any problems.
actually the PCIE 3.0 speeds doesn’t actually slow down the gpu that much, Gamers Nexus did a test video on it with a rtx4090 and the performance drop isn’t too significant.
This topic and video could be refreshed every couple of years. And yours in particular is by far the best out there after this many years. I recently have had a few months worth of issues with the rtx4090 on a Phanteks gen4 riser. I've had the card RMA twice, ran the bios in gen3 mode and still getting random crashes. If I had more up to date info on this I would have built into a new case without a riser from day 1. This may be just 4090 specific due to the higher bandwidth demand of the GPU but I was not expecting to have so much drama. Great vid give us more
Just wanted to add after watching again. My crashes are very very random, so bench testing beforehand would be useless. My PC can run for a week with no issues then suddenly crash.
@@thundereagle4130 yes, but pci-e spec is too narrow and so blower fans on those cards are rather small. Blowers seem to have a decently quiet sound compared to rpm. Problem is they’re too small and so they have to spin rather quickly
LOL aw man, if only I had discovered this video just one week earlier. I just went through WAY too much time trouble shooting occasional sound loss, audio pops and crackers, and many MANY BSoDs with "video scheduler internal error". It was 3 or 4 lost nights before I had the thought..."I wonder if it's the riser card?" And yeah, of course settings the BIOs for auto to gen 3 fixed everything right away. Great video, great summary of exactly WHY my riser card was the problem. Also thank you for making me feel better about kicking down to gen 3.
The easy solution is to mount your GPU the way it was intended, directly into a motherboard PCIe slot. Why do you think there are no RAM module risers?
@Russell White I'm way too German for that. :D Functionality, stability, performance, thermals, noise first. And since the desk top is for the displays (that's where the magic happens after all) and not the case, looks are the least of worries.
Gaming is about enjoyment anyway. If a prettier PC give you more enjoyment than 10% fps, why not? Specifically I don't think I mind get only 70fps out of something that is capable of 80, if I could get a aesthetically pleasing build. I don't do vertical mount due to stability issue, but I can totally understand why people want it.
Motherboard manufacturers should work on adding a switch on the board for gen3. Especially on ITX boards meant for sff. That way you can toggle gen3 as default for dealing with bios updates and bios resets.
They have such a thing in bios already but the issue is that your riser needs to be just good enough for you to get that slow video signal and struggle to get to the setting. Once you get gen 3 set you just restart and take care of the other bios settings, then avoid clearing cmos.
@@Braffy Even though I'd appreciate it, with gen 5 peeking just slightly on the horizon (already wtf), I don't think it's worth the effort/return for manufacturers. Within 2 years this switch "is obsolete", I'd rather see universal bios used across each platform (without manufacturer flavoring and chipset factory default settings instead of aggressive brand selling settings) and them having auto detect whether you're using gen3 or gen4 or whatever gen via firmware/bios, much easier for beginners and veterans alike.
The differences are because of manufacturing variability. Keep in mind that every time you go through a connection there is a time delay. For example each connector that your signal goes through might be worth 2ns. With delays stacking up it could cause signals to fall outside their specified capture window. Don't forget signal attenuation through the connections and wires which could cause data eyes to be too small.
Not necessarily, it really depends on a number of factors. i used a Gen 4 riser from Thermaltake and it was 14 inches long and I had no data loss or bandwidth issues
@@tonyd0001 That is what the OP was saying, it might have a difference or it might not because there is a lot of manufacturing variability. He was saying could and might. You have a riser that works but someone else might get one that doesn't. As signal speed increases your signaling window gets smaller and smaller. If your cable isn't good quality you will have problems.
DUDE🤩 you safed my system! I have build a new pc and since 2days i got no respone, no picture from my 3080! Then i changed in the bios the output to gen3 and i finaly got e picture from my 3080
thank you so god damn fucking much for making this video. had some random problems with my gpu/windows, and then right after my riser cable broke. obviously i didnt know it was my riser cable so i got scared my gpu broke (3080 ti) and did a bunch of troubleshooting for software issues hoping it wasnt a hardware thing, but nothing worked. finally after feeling defeated as shit i remembered your vid and tried remounting my gpu normally and now it works like a charm, thank you so fucking much, you saved me tears man.
Recently installed a Phanteks riser cable using 6800 GPU on a B450f ASUS ROG mobo. No issues. Bandwidth is 13.47 GB, not bad for 3.0 x16 ! Great video ! Now I need to plug-in my 5800X and test the Resizeable BAR support on a B450f mobo, hope this works !!!
Never really liked the idea of riser cables just to do vertical GPU mounts. It usually leads to worse GPU temps/performance and introduces another point of possible failure. The only real use for it is with SFF builds where you don't really have a choice.
Speaking of compatibility: how does the NZXT hoodie work together with the Cooler Master chair?
There's compatibility issues. The hoodie keeps rebooting.
Hoodie also has a fire hazard, they gotta recall it. Even Cooler Master can’t handle it.
I think there’s a lot of static energy between them
It actually works. I had a cooler master cooler in an nzxt case and it worked.
Needs more rgb IMO
I almost returned my 3000 GPU because of my riser cable i thought it was the GPU it wasn't until I plugged it straight into the MB. great video.
same here
I was basically in the same boat, Once I realised it was the riser I bought a new case so I won't need a riser
Same here
hey yo howd you get that 3000 series when theres no stock anywhere?
@@whyers4782 there is stock. I was in a group for alerts and managed to pick a gpu up within a week
Ah yes, classic Dmitri talking about riser cables, wearing an nzxt hoodie, sitting on a coolermaster chair in a video sponsored by corsair
He's a legend for that
Bought and paid for.
The slot card is a 40 yrs old design, and it's intended for cards much smaller than the mainboard. They should develop a new connection standard where the user is free to place the gpu anywhere inside the case or outside.
More than 40 even, expansion cards with an edge connector that slots into a plastic socket on a main board actually date back over 60 years to the IBM 1401, which launched in 1959.
Have you ever seen ISA cards? And I don't just mean graphics cards.
But daughter boards, sound cards, professioal ones with MIDI-Controllers etc.
And the "micro-chips" of the eighties and nineties were heavy.....
Some of those cards are huge chonkers, the size is not a problem, the size and weight of the air cooling solutions is.
Pretty much all exetension cards of today are either smaller and lighter or lighter than their 80s or 90s counterparts, or equal in weight with EMI Shielding.
The only exceptions are graphics cards, and nvme SSD extension cards, in both cases due to their cooling solutions.
I think bothof you seem, due to your comments, have only ever worked with post-2000 Hardware.
The mid-noughties were indeed a period of maximum lightness though, which while it wasn't the minimum that the extension card form factor was designed for, did almost certainly influence the design of PCIe and it's sockets.
And even back the there were critical voices that thought that the x1 slot, the back then most used one would be too short for a proper mechanical connection.
I think all Hardware Canucks videos are interesting. Even if they are about riser cables.
This is more of a PSA and guide to help folks in case they think they have a DOA GPU, mobo or CPU. ;)
@@HardwareCanucks it's still interesting to me. ;) i watch even if i know the info.
Are you implying Riser cables are not an interesting topic in and of itself?
Jking ofc, I get what you mean ;)
Does Bryan know you are cheating? He will be heart broken
@@pacifiststormtrooper8839 and Greg lol
@7:15 magic hair
POOF!
I saw it too hahaha. And the water in the glass + the blue watch. Laughed so much!
Was watching on TV and just came to post this... It was oddly distracting!
That was the “main question I probably have” at that moment lmao
Really appreciate the extra care to tackle a subject that is very important to a certain subsect of the community, namely the SFF people, but not at all the larger “catch-all” crowd.
Hope the channel is going great and everyone is having a great holiday!
This video is a lifesaver! After spending a couple days and trying out two different Phanteks riser cables for my vertical GPU bracket, I changed the PCIE settings from Auto to 3.0 on my B550 Tomahawk and it works!! Thank you so much!
Every second build on Facebook PC pages with Gen 4 GPU problems seems to have a riser cable.
BINGO
Imagine having a perfect hard line custom loop and you flash the BIOS to discover the riser cable will add 2 hours of reassembly just to change 1 BIOS setting. One of Dante's circles for sure!
Happened to me last week. I was freaking TF out!
That’s what I had on my custom loop! I was fxxked up!
Excellent video by Dmitri. Really like it when he focuses on such practical info and avoids more subjective stuff that starts pointless flame wars.
5:55 "As far as I'm aware there is not a single case on the market right now that comes equipped with a PCIe gen 4 riser cable inside the box".
Funnily enough, the Dan A4-SFX, the case shown off at 0:59 and 11:57, actually does come with a PCIe Gen 4 riser with it's latest revision, and for me at least it worked flawlessly out of the box with a b550 mobo and an RTX 3000 GPU.
I actually came back after a day ago from watching this; just because I wanted to say thank you so freaking much.
I was only knees almost in tears, because I bought a pcie 3.0 vertical mount for my system which by standard is 4.0
I also had a bios update right after I installed the mount; so I sat there thinking it had to be that install. I was going back and forth trying to reboot 50x over and I even reinstalled windows twice; all to find out that it was the riser cable. Not the windows install that was causing the black screens/freezes.
Simply changing the bios setting from auto to 3.0 fixed the issue.
You sir are an angel and deserve way way way more credit than anyone can give you.
Holy fuck why is this the only channel talking about this issue. Riser Cables are basically snake oil right now with gen 4.
The only riser cable I've been able to find that is Gen4 is made by LinkUp. A 20cm right angle cable runs just under $60 USD on Amazon. It's frickin ridiculous! So far, everything works just fine if I keep the one PCI-E x16 slot locked down to Gen3 on an Asus X570 Crosshair VIII Hero with a Sapphire Nitro+ SE RX 5700XT. I went through all the trial and error testing on my own rig when I first got my 5700XT about 9 months ago and everything led to the riser cable. I've told people about this and they just blew it off and kept blaming the drivers. I'm really happy to see someone in the media mainstream backing this up.
Watching this on my phone (and not even fullscreen at times), it's so easy to overlook the mad amount of detail that goes into every single A/B roll you guys shoot. When I log into UA-cam on a nicer 1440p monitor however, everything just pops! Other channels fumble so much more with their video production, but here it's always crystal clear, silky smooth, colour-corrected to the nth degree and overlaid with some of the best audio work around. Soooo much respect for the hard work and astounding skill level from HWC, hope you guys can continue to grow in 2021 and get every ounce of the recognition you deserve!
I allways get DPC latency issues with riser cables.
My system starts to produce wierd audio and video stutters.
Doesn't matter if the cable is cheap or expensive.
I even have this when plugged directly into the motherboard. Seems to be an RTX3000 thing.
As a service Technician, I thank you. Was seeing this issue most on the Thermaltake cables with their VIEW line of cases. Plenty of good cards getting blamed.
When some customer assembled builds came in for diagnostic and a riser cable was used, we go for the cable first.
I'm in this boat. I could not get my Gigabyte Z390 or my new GB Z690 to work on Auto Gen in X16, I know Compatability is sketchy but mobo manufacturers need to start listing compatibility for this issue
I used a Gen 3 riser cable a few hours ago to pair with my 3080. Ended in disaster caused my mobo to go into a inescapable boot loop, even when plugging the GPU directly back into the mobo. Always change the gen of PCIE in the bios when using one of these cables is what I've learned, or better still take the plunge and buy a true Gen 4 riser cable. It saves a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted.
So how did you finally brake up that boot-loop?
Thank you so much!!!! Switching this build to gen 3 worked and I stumped myself and three other techs in town trying to figure this out!
Louqe includes a gen4 riser cable in the ghost s1. also, it has become mainstream in europe... but its still expensiv. a new gen4 riser from louqe also coasts 60€ btw, and the riser looks weird
I bought it separately for a Build I wanted to do. But changed the case and no longer need it, so I have not tried it out. But they're definately available!
Is Loque still selling the S1? I was interested in it but it doesn't appear to be on sale for the USA.
@@perdomot They're available every once in a while on Amazon. Just picked one up last week. They post updates on their Twitter feed for when they'll have inventory available in different locations.
@@tfernandes113 Thanks for the info, appreciate it.
@@perdomot there is plenty in europe
Great video! 2 weeks ago after installing a 3060Ti in my Thermaltake Core G3 case I went through this issue. It would work perfectly until you went to run something that really taxed the system like Time Spy, Port Royal etc... where it would just fail randomly. I tried everything to figure out what was causing it. On the bench with the card plugged directly into the MB it was fine, but with a different MB, RAM, CPU, PSU, fresh install of Win10 etc... and then 6 different riser cables from 4 different manufacturers (including 2 Thermaltake cables that were supposed to be the same as what came with the G3 case) and only the original cable would display anything at all. Finally I put the system back to how it originally was and contacted Thermaltake tech support and after a few back and forth e-mails they suggested switching to Gen 3 PCI, it was on auto, I switched it to Gen 3 and bam fixed...
Bam, losing performance.
That's all you did.
I went into the build expecting to encounter this issue, but I'm one of the lucky ones. Raijintek Ophion w/ PCIE3 riser with RX6800 XT (PCIE4) and ASUS B550i (PCIE4) booted up fine. I did use the same NVME drive that already had Radeon drivers pre-installed while on a motherboard with PCIE3.
I cannot thank you enough. I was about to RMA my Aorus WB 3080, I motherboard mounted it and ran some new tubing, and NO MORE BSODS, NO MORE BLACK SCREENS OR CRASHING.
I’m so happy. I’m looking forward to coverage on gen 4 riser cables.
Bought a gen 4 pcie and a thermaltake s300 and it works surprisingly well. Gpu stays at 65c under full load. S300 has plenty of room between the vertically mounted gpu and glass
have to say thank you so much...had a riser sitting around trying to figure out how to get it to work for awhile and then your ASUS options did the trick... thank you now I got better air flow in my 011 dynamic...Thank you!!!
PCIe 4 risers are expensive for a reason. You need either shielding or active signal boosting. A proper gen 4 riser is likely going to be very stiff.
I have a feeling that PCIe Gen 5 will have worse problems with riser cables.
It will be wireless
They'll just make L shaped mobo's no riser cable needed 😂😂😂😂😂😂
First, let me say it's stupid that these are being called "riser" cables. They're extension cables, not risers. A riser is a rigid daughterboard.
Second, automatic version setting on the slot does not mean it negotiates a slower speed when the connection is bad. It's not a modem or ethernet cable. The version used is the maximum supported by both the system and the peripheral. If you plug a revision 4 card into a revision 4 slot, then the slot is going to run at revision 4. The simple passthrough extension cable doesn't change that negotiation. It just breaks the system when the signal degrades too much to be usable.
Well, what to call a cable that does the exactly same thing as a riser, but is a cable? A "riser-like cable"? A "cable that does what a riser does"? A "cable that functions the same way as the rigid cards we're calling risers"? Why not "riser cable"?
It completely depends on the case you use it in. My case has a stock PCIe 3.0 riser card, it has to be used due to the case layout (as in it raises the card above the socket), can't use the stock card because it doesn't work with PCIe 4.0. it has to be used due to how the card mounts in the case (well above the PCIe slot) so yeah it's a riser cable
I have a new Louqe Gen 4 riser cable working on an ASUS X570-I motherboard and RX 5700XT w/ the Gen4 PCIE option selected in UEFI.
Netluxe TV It has been working without any issue! I tried a riser cable from LINKUP as well, but that wasn’t a good experience when forcing PCIE gen 4 in the BIOS/UEFI.
D'Mitry, good rant sir. I am impressed by your multiple shooting days for this video. Took me a minute to notice the differences because you hid them so well. Here's to 2021 and I am excited for all your next level video content sir.
Laughs in direct connection
Weird enough. My 6800xt keeps shutting down during games with direct connection. No issues with gpu raiser....
@@BigBoss-ps6vk That sounds like a improper grounding in relation to the motherboard mounted.
@@BigBoss-ps6vk You gotta screw it with confidence. Don't forget to wear your Live Strong bracelet. 😂😂😂
@@PSYCHOV3N0M bruh how are the verge references still a thing
I use direct too.. We have sagging problems.
Think we need a new ATX form.
This form factor design by Intel is from the dinosaur ages, when graphics cards were light with 40mm fans😄.
ooooh someone's been using that fancy Asus hdr monitor, review coming soon?
I'll place a formal request to the editors of tech channels in general. Please make a few macros to display a little description when an acronym is used for first time each video, just a tiny text in a corner that stays for 2 seconds. Like "PSU: Power Supply Unit." Because you guys are forgetting about the people only trying to get into PC building for the first time, throwing acronyms around like we all are experts already. Make it welcoming for new people.
I second that motion
I just upgraded to a Ryzen 5 from FX-6300 and new mobo. Transferred my RX 580 and dealt with crazy instability/crashes/freezing/restarting. Removed the riser cable and it's fine now. This video is my validation I've made a solid decision to stop vertically mounting my card.
Few months ago I did just about the same. From an FX system to a R 5, even have an rx 580. Thing is I built in a glass side panel case. Back of the gpu isn't as aesthetically pleasing as the MB. For a bit more coin I can get a custom gpu backplate. Seems to me an acrylic plate would be more of a heat problem as these cards run hot as it is.
6:40 - Because of manufacturing tolerance and variations. Very interesting to see how such small margins in something that passes QC for PCI-E 3.0 makes the difference for 4.0
Welcome to the world of signal integrity. In electronics clock lines are very critical and based on the materials and purity of the cable this can create issues such as drift and even signal loss.
Can't wait to see some real gen4 risers on the market!
Yep, especially the price....
Linkup is making them and I'm running one with my 5900x and 3070FE with no issues! Edit: but yeah they're expensive
@@whitest_kyle Same here. I have one from Linkup running my 6900 XT, with SAM(Resizable Bar) enabled and working. 0 issues. But yeah 100+ for a cable is expensive.
louqe incudes one in the case and u can buy one seperatly
I have one, really good. No issues what so ever
Mine is Gen3 but I built a PC with the Thermaltake Core P5 and before getting it, I've read reviews. All reviewers said, the supplied riser cable is awful and almost everyone has problems with it. They recommended to get the premium riser cable from Thermaltake and with that one I didn't have any problems in the past 2 years.
This video is a life-saver.
Was getting a black screen on boot with my new 3070 plugged in through the NR200P riser cable, and was genuinely confused, as the graphics card was getting power and seemed to be running.
Plugged in my old RX 470, went to the BIOS on my B550i, changed to Gen. 3, and voilà: got the all too familiar ‘Insert boot media’.
Gonna be interesting going forward to see Gen. 4 riser cables, and how they price in relation to current ones. Thanks!
Ugh, it's such a pain! Especially when you update the BIOS and it resets to its default settings. It takes 30 minutes to try and change the PCIEx16 to Gen 3. I emailed NZXT asking if they will make a PCI-E Gen 4 riser cable, and they've said that they have no plans to do so in the future.
7:15 whoa - sudden hair gel is sudden lol. DING +1
“A custom PC builder living hell.”
But thanks to your work it’s making things better.
Among all the tech-channels I follow you are the only ones who have already covered this issue, yet. Thank you for covering it! While it does not impact my own build, because I prefer to let my graphics card breathe, I advise people on PC hardware in my job and there are enough people out there who will be glad to have someone tell them about this.
Optimum tech is another one that brought up this issue. He mainly focuses on SFF stuff so it makes sense that you've probably never heard of him. But he did a video about this a while ago. You won't see something like this from mainstream youtubers cause they are usually making big builds. And if they did SFF builds they were not putting 5000series GPUs in them, they were putting 2080s in there. Which does not cause the issue, since they are only PCIE gen 3.
@@mattevans1643 I have seen a few videos from optimum tech and liked them. I'm just not a regular there.
I almost smash my new ROG RTX 3080 TI OC 12G!!! I have been getting a lot of problems like BLACK SCREEN, No Video Card detected, Code 43, Load vender.dll fail error Please install VGA driver error! I have Install and uninstall drivers lots of times and the only problem is this RISER CABLE!!!!! As soon as I remove the RISER CABLE and put the GPU directly IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you get a chance to chat with a MOBO manufacturer, I think a cool feature would be if you don't have anything installed (cpu/gpu/ram/storage), the bios would still come up when pluging into the onboard HDMI, regardless of what components are installed and working. It might cost $5-$10 in parts to make it work, but it definitely would be a value add.
It's not just Gen 4 GPU to Gen 4 MoBo. I have a 2080Ti on an x570 normally working fine without issues using the riser cable. However certain GPU intensive games ether crash or BSOD for some reason. I decided to remove the riser cable yesterday, and behold. System was much more stable on heavy GPU load.
I removed my riser cable after watching this video and noticing on the Superposition benchmark that my GPU wouldn't go above 60 degrees. I plugged it directly into the motherboard and immediately achieved a score several thousand points higher and temperatures increased to 75 degrees because my card can actually work now. I couldn't overclock the card previously and my OC is working now. I should have dumped this cable long ago. Thanks Hardware Canucks!
The "Ghost S1" from LOUQE has actually a very good gen four risercable
Broooo! I was having so much trouble with my computer after upgrading my cpu. I was this close to RMA'ing my graphics card!! But this video solved my problem!! I did everything! I refreshed bios, reinstalled windows.. this was the only thing that helped! Got rid of the corsair riser cable I was using and now the computer works perfectly! Thank you Dimitri!
I really appreciate you showing us where the BIOS setting is on each different motherboard brand. Great video mate!
I am a pre-computer era person and somewhere along the way I do remember it being public knowledge that there is an electrical formula that you use to adjust timing for the length of the trace. So to me that makes sense. Now the real question to ask is when will MFG's and OEM's allow you to adjust that timing in the case of extenders. I guess that could be a feature that people would pay money for, so it seems like they would eventually implement it, but who knows, copyright crap has ruined countries even and I can not even express how copyright has destroyed electronics repair and information regarding board design.
Interesting
Link up has a gen 4 cable. I have 15cm riser and it cost $60 from Amazon. Plugged it in and it booted right up didn’t have to switch from gen 3 to 4 in bios. Running a 3800x with a evga ftw3 3090. My gen 3 cable gave me issues at first.
I just had to explain all these issues to a friend of mine when he asked me "Why dont you have your gpu in a vertical mount?" Until it gets to be more reliable im not doing it.
Vert mounts also block airflow getting to the gpu. Don't bother unless your gpu is water cooled.
Only watercooled GPU should be mounted vertically anyway, it's not great when it comes to thermals. It's hard to understand for me why would people hinder performances for looks, I mean it's not a car, only you can see it and when you use it you don't look at it at the same time anyway, I can somewhat understand adding custom bodies on cars, weights more but looks better, waste of money too for a performance hit (slower+more gas, longer braking distance) but you get people to look at you I guess.
i think it depends on the case. i have a sharkoon case with a vertical mounted GPU. When full load my 2060 reaches max 75 degrees, but it also takes me 2 sec to open the front glass panel since i have my pc on my desk. At full load the gpu reaches max 68 degress when front panel is open. Now i have 3 intake at the bottom which is case fans, im gonna swap them with aftermarket fans in January
@@tacticalcenter8658 That depends entirely on the individuals case. A vert GPU in my case would probably fair better as my bottom fans would blow directly onto the heat grills whilst the GPU would still have at least 5-7cm gap in front of it, so when the GPU fans come on it would be getting cool air from the front and the bottom, rather than right now it only getting air from the bottom.
@@HalfDayHero depends on many factors. Doubtful that your opinion is going to make a difference. The only way a side mount is going to work is if you convert the PCI express area to the very mount. But not the extra vert mounts next to the glass on the majority of cases even if it looks like you might have enough room. Even bottom fans don't help on those. Look at fluid dynamics modeling software. It's just not going to go where you want it to go based on looking at it. It's been tested outside of cfd software as well showing no benefits. You can try a baffle to force air on the one side but this can be a bit weird in some cases and being that it's going so narrow it might not want to go that direction, but this all depends on all sorts of factors. Overall it's not idea. There may be some exceptions, but overall it's a pipe dream.
The same day you upload the video I get my PCI 3.0 riser cable by cooler master. I have the AMD r9 390 GPU ...when I install the riser cable and I open a 4k video or a game my GPU crash everytime the GPU usage goes 100%. After a long searching I found your video and I change my PCI slot Gen from the noon to 2.0 from 3.0 and that works perfectly without fps dropping. So if somebody have the same problem as me change your Gen slot PCI to 2.0 if you have 3.0 or to 3.0 If you have 4.0 . (My MSI x370 gaming pro carbon motherboard didn't have that option so I updated the bios to the lates beta version ) thank you for the video Dimitri ❤️
this topic even gets more complicted! I own a 3080 Suprim X and a 3080 TUF and with the same riser cable the Suprim X works but the TUF doesnt!
Having a Phanteks shift, I had issues when I plugged my 5700xt in and I had to return it. The cable I later found was the problem (I can only assume the cable couldn't provide some power or data for the GPU, even in gen 3 mode for the mobo I had crashes). I hope more companies make gen 4 cards now that both brands make PCIe gen 4 cards.
So even changing BIOS settings isn't a solution? This is really disheartening to hear, I was planning a 3060Ti Shift build for spring...
@@ThiccNutt it's a risk we shouldn't take, I can sort of understand since most cases don't rely on the cables like in my case, which leads to less of a need to make them, but then again people keep wanting to waste money to make their GPUs look different and then they get the gen 3 cables and make things worse. It's a mess right now.
Omg dude yes. Even prior to gen 4, the Shift consistently had riser cable issues. I can't tell you how many RMA's and riser cable swaps I had to do just to get things working
@@Smashologist Thats a major bummer! Thankfully I got a free gen 3 cable from them when it shipped with a pcie gen 2 cable and I verbally stated to them its shocking theyd ship old tec with a new case, so far no issues with my 3.0 cable thankfully.
Try switching it to the 2nd slot on your motherboard. It should be a x8 slot. you can check the pin out to see if it is.
As far as I remember, the Dan A4 that you held in your hand in the beginning of the video comes in it’s recent version with a 3m PCIe gen4 riser cable.
3m!?
You mean 3dm?
@@OutOfNameIdeas2 nope. I mean 3M the manufacturer of the cable.
Really good video. It was missing something about this in a known channel and with a lot of testing!
Thank you so much!!!!!!! I’ve spent the last 2 hours trying to figure it out. I have the ASUS TUF GAMING X570-Plus. I upgraded my case to the Thermaltake P3 and it was my first time dealing with Riser Cables. My RTX 3090 Founders Edition finally works again. I did exactly as you explained in the video, went into the bios and changed AUTO to Gen3. Everything now works! Thanks again!
Thanks so much for this video @Hardware Canucks! This video really helped me especially building everything externally before putting it in the case. However, for those out there who may still have boot issues, I had to enable PCIe Bifurcation in order for the system to boot. This may be due to 2 x M.2 Nvme ssd installed. I have the latest bios for my B550-i from Asus (2403).
They're not the most ideal solution, but having the vertical GPU looks amazing
Not this generation.
@@WooBino. Well, for hard-line water cooling systems, a vertical GPU is gonna bring the look of the PC to another level
@@Jay-mk8no not worth the frame loss. I took my vertical out after a day. Why add an additional cable that’s only for looks?
@@WooBino. Frame loss? What are you talking about?
@@Tommy-T448 Had stutters and lost FPS when I had my GPU in vertical with a good brand vertical bracket and cable.
Hey man, an absolute thanks for this.
I have custom water cooled my PC and for months I have random issues with my PC of Asrock X570 Taichi and Phanteks Riser Cable and 5700XT. It works sometime, but BSOD and random boot issues are driving me mad. RMAed my ram, did a lot of A-B testing, took it out for checking in computer shop, disassembled my PC completely and reseated everything, and finally reached a conclusion that it is the riser cable to blame. A painful lesson it certainly is.
I had a phanteks riser cable connected to my 3080 and at first saw some artifacting at times when playing, then it stopped booting, I troubleshoot it and found out it was the riser cable.
Now I know the reason why the riser cable failed, thank you!!
A year or two ago: Don't use vertical GPUs, they're horrible for thermals and can have issues with reliability
Now: WTF these things are awful for thermals and reliability!!
Why is it bad for thermals?
This video is going to save a lot of people a lot of stress. Awesome work!
Thanks for posting this. I was beside myself trying to find the source of the slow bios screen updates and the blue screens. It didn't add up. I exchanged the card as defective and the same thing happened again. Finally started suspecting the riser as the cause when I stumbled on your video. The fact that you could downgrade the PCIE gen4 to gen3 was new to me. It finally brought an end to a two day investigation.
Great explanation. Much needed and helped me. Thanks man
Uhm isn't the problem that the riser cables are just 3.0 and you are trying to connect a 4.0 motherboard and 4.0 gpu together? You need a 4.0 riser cable, or you have to go to your bios and set your PCI-E to 3.0 (because of the riser cable).
Um, isn't that what the entire video is about?
@@OriginalMergatroid and why would you make an entire video about a riser cable 3.0 that won't be able to operate on a PCI-E 4.0 slot?
@@masterpNL1983 FFS man, obviously this video is made for people who don't know about such things...
If you are such an expert, why are you watching beginner videos? Just reading the comments here, it's again obvious several people came across this exact issue and were helped by this video.
If you don't want help, and don't want to offer any yourself, why are you here?
@@OriginalMergatroid Lmao! Such a frustration. This got nothing to do with a beginner video or expert level, it's just common sence - 1+1 = 2. Same thing you could wonder is why won't you get USB 3.0 speed if you are using a USB 2.0 Cable in a 3.0 slot. Common sense. And read the manual if you are buying a 3.0 riser cable, it's all mentioned in the manual. So, this video is f.. useless.
Is time remove the slot type PCIE and make a new standard cable link between GPU n motherboard.
Imagine the possibility of customization without the need to "Slot" your GPU.
Sooo glad I found this video!!. I just installed a rtx370 and I would lose display signal but when I mounted directly to mobo it wouldn't.
I got a Linkup 4.0 riser around 4 or 5 months ago when I got my 5700xt (sapphire nitro+ ... whatever the f it's called). Works great. If Amazon runs out, just get in touch with Linkup and they will make one to your specs and it will come fairly quickly. It was about 90 bucks when I got it but I wanted to take advantage of the whole 4.0 infrastructure these days... storage, CPU and GPU.
I was definitely getting riser cable issues back when I built my phanteks shift in 2017. It was a fucking nightmare
3:56 I see what you did there..
This is Not Only a Problem with PCIe 4.0, I also Had a Problem with PCIe 3.0 especially with the Phanteks Risers. They are pretty poorly shielded, so i Had Problems with some GTX 700 i owned, namely a 770 Lightning and a 780 FE. I head weird Lock ups during startup or no Video Output at all... When i switched to a GTX 970 FE the Problem was solved. I was on the Phone with EVGA, Asus, Phanteks, my retailer and even Nvidia didn't know what was going on. Riser cables usually add a Lot of Problems, especially the Low Quality ones, but in some cases there are necessary...
I don't trust those pcie extension cable at all. As you mentioned, maybe there were some performance or compatibility issues, and it's NOT a riser, A small PCB with a bunch of components hard soldered, that's a riser. It's expensive but it guarantees performance and safety. Thank you for bringing up this topic to the public.
Got my Gen4 riser cable off Amazon for $61 have not had any issues with my 3090 and my x570 Taichi using said cable.
Exactly.
If I may ask, which cable did you purchase exactly? I haven't found any true Gen 4 cables on Amazon Germany.
@@ThiccNutt The LINKUP 4.0 cable works for me. 3090 and an Asus x570 Pro WS Ace. Available on Germany.
@@MultiFeesh Awesome, thanks! I just found it.
Now to find out what length is needed for the Evolv Shift 2 Air :D
@@ThiccNutt 24 cm should be your best bet. For a single vertically mounted GPU.
Oh the sweet irony with that hoodie.
My linkups Ultra PCIe 4.0 riser cable has been working flawlessly no performance degradation seen. My case is a node 202, so it came with a PCIe riser card that doesn't work with PCIe 4.0 and caused all kinds of issues.
Went with Linkups and haven't had an issue since. I've put many hours of gaming on the system since I've installed the riser cable with absolutely no issues. The longest gaming sessions I've put into my system at any one times was 27 hours.
Did you have problems even when you went back to 3.0? I'm having BSOD even when setting the motherboard to use PCIE 3, I have the linkups arriving tomorrow so I really hope this will help.
@@110hoppy110 nope, when I was still using the stock riser card that came with the case and went back to PCIe 3 it all worked fine.
@@madmax2069 Thank you. I have seen a couple people who still had problems so hopefully this will solve my issue if not I guess I need to RMA my GPU.
“No case comes with gen4 riser on the market”, Ghost S1 cries in the corner.
Keywords, on the market
@@Athasin you can order ghost s1 on Amazon right now, shipping is in January though
@@qingohyeah6775 Sooooo it's not on the market yet then? So the point still stands.
Same with the Dan A4 v4.1 purchased last month, it comes with a 3M™ 8KC3-0726-0300 PCIe® x16 Gen4 riser
@@Dazzxp Most cases in this review are sold out right now. In your logic, most of them are "not on the market"
I was having these symptoms with an ASUS 3080 TUF. After a ton of testing, I sent it back to ASUS on an RMA. Waiting to hear back from them. Maybe this is it all along!
Most likely! Have a 3080 TUF as well. Just posted my story here as well. You wouldn't believe the shit I've gone through. Also 2 out of 4 RAM sticks where DOA, so that made it even more complicated. And having a custom loop was very time consuming to take it apart every single time. Working fine since setting to GEN 3. Glad he posted this video, a lot more would have had this issue in the future
I found this out pretty quick with my x570 and rx5600xt, but not before I sent the cable back to thermaltake because I knew the gpu was good. Sadly gen 4 riser cables are more expensive and not really worth it to me.
Oof, hope they return it quickly.
I ran into this issue 6mos ago with my X570 Tomahawk and Aorus RX5700XT using an EZ-DIY Riser in a Define R6. It would reach post and access BIOS but frequently crashed loading Windows/was unstable. Thankfully the BIOS has a manual PCIe Gen3 switch, been rock stable since.
I have the Cooler master Vertical GPU bracket Version 2, which runs flawless without any problems or errors so far, not even after long intensive gaming sessions. I did however have to manually set the PCI-E X16 mode to Gen 3. I recommend the following:
1. Put the graphics card directly into the motherboard slot.
2. boot your PC and install the GPU drivers.
3. Set the PCI-E X16 mode to Gen 3 in the BIOS.
4. Boot your PC again to see if it works with Gen 3.
5. Install vertical GPU bracket.
Should work instantly without any problems.
Yeah you buy a brand new PCIe4 motherboard, you buy an expensive graphics PCIe4 card and then use a PCIe3 cable to slow down the system to PCIe3.
actually the PCIE 3.0 speeds doesn’t actually slow down the gpu that much, Gamers Nexus did a test video on it with a rtx4090 and the performance drop isn’t too significant.
I just want to know which monitor that is behind, its catching my eye a lot.
want to know this too
It is the Asus professional monitor. I forgot the model name, but it did come out in the last few months.
It's a tiny monitor. Too small.
Very nice topic as usually. Just encountered an issue with Cooler Master Riser cable yesterday and was not understanding the issue.
Thanks !
This topic and video could be refreshed every couple of years. And yours in particular is by far the best out there after this many years. I recently have had a few months worth of issues with the rtx4090 on a Phanteks gen4 riser. I've had the card RMA twice, ran the bios in gen3 mode and still getting random crashes. If I had more up to date info on this I would have built into a new case without a riser from day 1.
This may be just 4090 specific due to the higher bandwidth demand of the GPU but I was not expecting to have so much drama.
Great vid give us more
Just wanted to add after watching again. My crashes are very very random, so bench testing beforehand would be useless. My PC can run for a week with no issues then suddenly crash.
A way to avoid removing the riser cable is to plug your monitor into onboard graphics and change the bios setting 👍
Yeah if your cpu supports on board graphics 👍
Can we just get a spec for vertical pci-e cards. The way they get mounted is trash. Blowing air into a backplate. How on earth was that ever a design
They already exist, they are called ''blower coolers''.
@@thundereagle4130 yes, but pci-e spec is too narrow and so blower fans on those cards are rather small. Blowers seem to have a decently quiet sound compared to rpm. Problem is they’re too small and so they have to spin rather quickly
LOL aw man, if only I had discovered this video just one week earlier. I just went through WAY too much time trouble shooting occasional sound loss, audio pops and crackers, and many MANY BSoDs with "video scheduler internal error". It was 3 or 4 lost nights before I had the thought..."I wonder if it's the riser card?" And yeah, of course settings the BIOs for auto to gen 3 fixed everything right away.
Great video, great summary of exactly WHY my riser card was the problem. Also thank you for making me feel better about kicking down to gen 3.
The easy solution is to mount your GPU the way it was intended, directly into a motherboard PCIe slot. Why do you think there are no RAM module risers?
It's about space management. A riser intends to use in a small PC case.
@@Shutobu Motherboards for small cases could be L shaped to support mounting the gpu directly without riser.
Knowing the tight timings on PCIe, I wonder why they ever became a thing beyond showcase builds for trade shows.
@Russell White I'm way too German for that. :D Functionality, stability, performance, thermals, noise first. And since the desk top is for the displays (that's where the magic happens after all) and not the case, looks are the least of worries.
Gaming is about enjoyment anyway. If a prettier PC give you more enjoyment than 10% fps, why not? Specifically I don't think I mind get only 70fps out of something that is capable of 80, if I could get a aesthetically pleasing build. I don't do vertical mount due to stability issue, but I can totally understand why people want it.
@@yitongma8941 That's what I mean though. If you enjoy looking at the machine, fine. If your priority is using it...
@@finestPlugins how sad would the modding community be with people like you
@@mullerstephan Did you actually read and understand my initial comment?
Did Dmitry take a shower halfway through the video? what happened to his hair at 7:14?
He removed the riser cable from his hair.
@@WimiBussard LMFAO!
This completely solved the crashing, no signal black screens and very choppy and erratic behavior. Lifesaver article.
Thanks for making this video! I was going crazy trying to figure out why my 3080 was not displaying the BIOS.
Motherboard manufacturers should work on adding a switch on the board for gen3. Especially on ITX boards meant for sff. That way you can toggle gen3 as default for dealing with bios updates and bios resets.
They have such a thing in bios already but the issue is that your riser needs to be just good enough for you to get that slow video signal and struggle to get to the setting.
Once you get gen 3 set you just restart and take care of the other bios settings, then avoid clearing cmos.
@@DJAbraxoOfficial That's what I mean, a hardware side switch or jumper so that you don't need to boot into the bios to set it
@@Braffy Even though I'd appreciate it, with gen 5 peeking just slightly on the horizon (already wtf), I don't think it's worth the effort/return for manufacturers. Within 2 years this switch "is obsolete", I'd rather see universal bios used across each platform (without manufacturer flavoring and chipset factory default settings instead of aggressive brand selling settings) and them having auto detect whether you're using gen3 or gen4 or whatever gen via firmware/bios, much easier for beginners and veterans alike.
The differences are because of manufacturing variability. Keep in mind that every time you go through a connection there is a time delay. For example each connector that your signal goes through might be worth 2ns. With delays stacking up it could cause signals to fall outside their specified capture window. Don't forget signal attenuation through the connections and wires which could cause data eyes to be too small.
Not necessarily, it really depends on a number of factors. i used a Gen 4 riser from Thermaltake and it was 14 inches long and I had no data loss or bandwidth issues
@@tonyd0001 That is what the OP was saying, it might have a difference or it might not because there is a lot of manufacturing variability. He was saying could and might. You have a riser that works but someone else might get one that doesn't. As signal speed increases your signaling window gets smaller and smaller. If your cable isn't good quality you will have problems.
DUDE🤩 you safed my system! I have build a new pc and since 2days i got no respone, no picture from my 3080! Then i changed in the bios the output to gen3 and i finaly got e picture from my 3080
thank you so god damn fucking much for making this video. had some random problems with my gpu/windows, and then right after my riser cable broke. obviously i didnt know it was my riser cable so i got scared my gpu broke (3080 ti) and did a bunch of troubleshooting for software issues hoping it wasnt a hardware thing, but nothing worked. finally after feeling defeated as shit i remembered your vid and tried remounting my gpu normally and now it works like a charm, thank you so fucking much, you saved me tears man.
Recently installed a Phanteks riser cable using 6800 GPU on a B450f ASUS ROG mobo. No issues. Bandwidth is 13.47 GB, not bad for 3.0 x16 !
Great video !
Now I need to plug-in my 5800X and test the Resizeable BAR support on a B450f mobo, hope this works !!!
Never really liked the idea of riser cables just to do vertical GPU mounts. It usually leads to worse GPU temps/performance and introduces another point of possible failure. The only real use for it is with SFF builds where you don't really have a choice.