It will not work, a refrigerator works on the basis of cold things stay cold. It cannot fight heat. Do what jay does, just put it in a cardboard box with a portable AC unit.
I'm holding out for the diagonal through the 4th dimension GPU mounts so I can mount my graphics card in the hyper-euclidean space between vertical and horizontal
o11 dynamic evo. normal mounting of my zotac 4090 gives slightly worse GPU temps at benefit of slightly better CPU temps, vertical mounting is the exact opposite. However what's key is that with normal mounting, my 12VHPWR cable for the GPU is horribly bent against the side tempered glass panel in order to close it, with vertical mounting, that issue doesn't exist. Definitely will work differently for different cases.
....maybe in fact your lady/man situation is in fact so diar you need to have a hottie on that super hot $1000 PCB you want to see for comfort as another player totally rocket jumps gibing you to kingdom come in an old quake style death-match! ... Sorry man I was just playing a little bit assuming you mean vertical card mounting... maybe your card has an awesome graphic and light scheme and your MB is Naked... and since a lot of folks don't use anything other than a GPU this is an option ... Personally my HAF942 case is already pretty old so likely my next build will replace it - since case labs went under ... I looking at a large wall-mount DIY thing though as honestly I always wanted to do one of those and I could get creative with my water cooling plumbing if I didn't have case constraints to worry about ... I liked the ones I seen others come up with and since I am sure I could do something like it I figured why the heck not =)
That looks awesome in a smaller case, like the Meshify C! Also, seeing how close to the motherboard the card mounts, it seems like they could make the bracket wider and use two extension cables to enable a second pci-e card (sound/capture) or even SLI with 2 dual slot cards. Obviously it wouldn't be ideal (and need better support for the bracket for SLI), but could work with adequate cooling especially in full tower cases.
This is a pretty cool approach for vertical mount GPUs. However, rather than supplying two full length DP cables, I would have preferred CableMod supply 3 DP & 1 HDMI short length cables that stick out just past the PCI slots. The full length cables going to the monitors then connect to these short extension cables just outside the chassis case. This would make it much easier to disconnect a monitor cable from the PC, without having to pull the GPU out to do it.
@@xSirDingo Yeah, I just found a post where they said they switched from short extenders to long cables because people with cheap cables had problems. Kinda sad tbh.
When we launched the product originally, we were using DP adapters that routed just outside of the slats. The issue here is that some people had low quality DP cables that they were using. Lower quality DP cables cannot pass signal through adapters/extension cables, that is the entire reason we relaunched this kit actually, we had to make all new DP cables because people were thinking the bracket was defective, but we found that some monitor DP cables are just not able to pass signal through adapters/extensions. This is why we include full replacement DP cables now, so everyone gets a great out of box experience. :)
Seems like this would be a bear to unplug though once everything is mounted. Maybe rather than making new cables (that probably added yet more cost because of new tooling or whatever) and removing the ability to easily disconnect them, higher quality ones could have just been included along with the short extensions? It might have also been cool to have the short extensions terminate at pass-throughs mounted between the horizontal slats. That would allow for way easier plugging/unplugging without having to hold a loose cable end with the other hand or removing the card altogether.
@@DefMunkyYT we didn't change the pricing of the bracket even with the tooling costs of the new cables, we left it the same. But including extensions + replacement cables would have required added cost as that's more cables included. Additionally, once it's installed, how often are the vast majority of people swapping their hardware on their system? :)
@@Colaman112 yes but I believe his version was fairly close to the side panel and it was overheating. I could be wrong though. If the temps are good for this one I will be buying this.
@@chrishunter7065 He might have multiple videos like that but if you search for one called "Fact-Check: CableMod's Vertical GPU Thermals vs. Stock Case", you find one with this exact product (or atleast a prototype of it) compared to a horizontal mount and integrated vertical mount (in Colermaster H500M case).
Kotton, many cases like Thermaltake View series come with a vertical bracket and a dedicated slot on the case so you can have both the vertical GPU while being able to retain the use of the pcie slots. I did it with my TT view 71 and had vertical GPU and some m2 drives and a network card on pcie and worked just fine. I did not like the look so I went back traditional.
cac2244 the problem with those cases is that the GPU can't get any air because it's so close to the side panel. Because of that you will either have higher temperatures or will have to turn the fan speed up which will make the PC louder.
it would be cool to somehow have this bracket allow low profile pci-e cards to fit behind the gpu so that you can have your gpu mounted vertically and then a bunch of low profile expansion cards behind it.
Well Jayz, OCD perfectionism aside, GPU sag is bad because of potential damage to the PCI-E slots. If the weight isn't directly rested on the slot, it's a win, regardless of aesthetics IMO.
I'm thinking vertical mounting would be great with water cooled cards, the fan choking would be a non issue and it would allow you to display the flow beautifully.
As to the comment about why they mount video cards with the cooler side down: All cards for PC's started out mounting with the components side up. Including when they first started to make "higher end" video cards back in the 1990's (which means GPU, heat sinks, fans, capacitors etc) were on the TOP of the card. However they soon realized there was a design flaw with this method as so many cards would collect dust on top of these components. This dust would cause cooling issue - as well accumulated dust or whatever else fell on the card could cause a short between pins on IC's. Also fans were subject to items falling into them. So to avoid this they simply flipped the cards upside down. (I remember the first time I purchased a higher end video card back in the early 1990's I was convinced I was sold a faulty video card because it looked like they installed it upside down thinking how is this going to work the pins will be reversed? Anyhow ever since then pretty much all cards are made with the components side down.
Hi AstarOfDavid. That's a new one. At the time the most often stated "logic" behind the change had to do with better utilisation of cooler air at the "slot" end of system cases, and the justifications were more about the need to limit the amount of heat dumped directly into the more critical "CPU" side. Either way, having hot components on the "underside" of a PCB (as with PCIe gfx cards in a "standard" ATX tower setup) is itself a "design flaw" that arguably creates more thermal issues than it solves.
Hmm, funny, I heard a totally separate story for why PCIe cards have bottom-facing fans. I heard that it was done so that motherboards could be made with ISA and PCI slots right next to each other, using the same slot in the back of the case, because the PCB is offset relative to the bracket. In those days, everybody needed at least 2-3 slots, and given that it's impractical to put more than 7 slots in a case, it makes sense to give users the freedom to use all their slots any way they want, so they don't have to think about how many of each specific standard they want when buying a motherboard.
Hi @@ThoolooExpress. Initially the only "upside down" card slot was the AGP port and it's introduction had no effect whatsoever on the number of cards a system could technically be populated with. In practice it may have resulted in people shifting their first PCI card down one slot to spare it from being overheated by their graphics card (and to allow more airflow to the gpu) but that was usually no big deal, even on m-ATX boards, given the vast majority of users typically used only two discrete cards by that stage (a gfx card and a dial-up modem). The same applies to later mixed PCIe/PCI boards. Some transition boards took advantage of the slot offset relative to the bracket to allow the user to populate either a PCIe slot or it's accompanying PCI slot (but not both - either choice would physically block access to the other slot). That design undoubtedly cost the manufacturer more but still didn't limit the maximum number of cards a given system could use and actually gave the user more freedom to mix and place PCI/PCIe cards as they chose. I suspect the AGP slot electronically needed to be closer to the CPU and that the "upside-down" build of the AGP/PCIe cards was influenced both by the thermal considerations of doing so (so as to not overheat the SB/CPU) and the economic need to conform to existing backplate/case design.
5:14 I just 3d printed my design for a GPU support. It's just a pillar where the airborne section of my GPU can rest on. Prevention is better than fixing.
Bought this after seeing this and other reviews. One BIG CAVEAT: in many cases you will not be able to mount a fan or rad underneath this bracket so be aware of this tradeoff that this card can cut down on your case's cooling capacity. The only way to move your gpu up a little bit is to move up the entire bracket assembly, which may not be possible. I wish there was some way to adjust the height of it. It fills up the entire pcie section on the back of my case and i need to boost it up a bit (i have clearance space) to put a bottom radiator / fan underneath.
I know this is an old video lol I'd love to see a test showing how the gpu thermals do with that adapter compared to it being mounted standard. I'd hope, with the added distance from the front panel, it would perform the same as standard.
@Wopsil actually I think with the open heatsink styled cards it would actually be better since heat rises and when you mount it horizontally since now there are more exposed sides?
@Wopsil actually it depends on the case, I dropped 8 degrees putting my 2070 super vertical because the airflow under the card wasn't the best when compared to the top of the case
This is the same thought I had, that this bracket would allow normally unsupported cases (such as my Corsair Carbide Air 540) to use vertical GPU mounting. I may consider it at some point, although it'll move my card back and I'll have to ditch the PowerLink (or it'll interfere with my front fans)
@@Xenoray1 I also modded my NZXT H700 to use the CM adapter. Just had to trim out the six horizontal slats and it fit perfectly. I actually prefer the CM one since you can directly access the back of the graphics card. It mounts it pretty close to the MB as well so you get plenty of air flow for the GPU fans.
@@Jenachy yeah that was our approach with this bracket, we wanted to put one on the market that required no case modding, but also one that allows for proper airflow to your GPU to ensure you don't choke your GPU, increasing thermals, and reducing clocks. :)
I have a Corsair 460X Crystal Series Glass case and use the CoolerMaster vertical gpu bracket to mount my Strix 2080TI and it fits and looks amazing. No cooling issues at all with 6 Corsair HD120 fans. System is quite quiet too. I was going to go with a larger case but I like the 460X because I can pick it up easy and carry it under my armpit with one arm when I take it out on my patio every once in a while to do a dust blow out on the whole system.
When you integrate it into a permanent build, have a couple holes for fans (blowing outwards) cut into the side of the case. This should help with the thermal issue that everyone is worried about. RGB fans. Kinda tricky with glass, but I know you're pretty resourceful.
Hey, if you wanted to use the upper 4x slot in Skunkworks, it looks like there's space to move the CableMod adapter one slot down... Oh, and because of the metal slots remaining in the original cases, wouldn't it be easier to route the right-angle cables BEFORE screwing the adapter in place?
@@ForeverMasterless this is true, $20 more you can get get the vertical mount it changes the look of your pc and all the weight is on the case not the motherboard.
I 3d printed a custom vertical GPU mount. Works great and didn't require any cutting because the Lian Li case I used doesn't have dividers just slightly oversized covers.
PSA: Don't bend the riser cable right at the ends like that, roll it around something to pre-form your bends. Better still, the ThermalTake premium cable is more flexible and better for off-set bends.
Food for thought: Would thermals be better is the fans were facing into the centre of the case rather than out? Or for that matter, would GPU thermals be better if they could be mounted with the fans facing up (ie upside down mounting with the fans on pull instead of push)?
I recently realized that in a tower case with the GPU card mounted directly on the MoBo the gpu chips are actually on the top of eventual gpu-water-block. This means that any air accumulated in the water-block would actually separate the surface in need of cooling from the rest of the water. It would be rather extreme case to completely separate the gpu hot surface from the water - a lot of air needs to accumulate there, but given that in such classic configuration the gpu (and water-block) face is looking down you might not notice it until your gpu performance start to drop considerably.
From a perspective of putting anything as you want to, this thing does have potential to serve a purpose of custom built chassis configurations from scratch where you don´t have much to choose from to mount parts onto.
@jayztwocents - So, with vertical mounting is there any 'latency' when you use a cable on the graphics card vs physically on the board? I noticed when I tried the vertical mount that came with my Genome Deepcool case, I was experiencing a lot of latency and crashing. Just curious.
In that particular mid tower it not only looks VERY noice but being fixed in the center it prevents the card from being choke, as Jay said. I have seen so many vertical mount cases that position the gpu almost flush against the side of the case it stops being funny.
I'm glad companies are becoming less wasteful. Accessing a QR code with your phone isn't much of an extra hassle to having a bigass manual in every language known to pluto
@@pcfreak1992 why would you want to see the original manual for some product that went out 5 years ago? I mean, it's like having the manual for a sandy lake cpu. I'm sure you lost it or don't remember where you stored it.
@@somedude2492 some things last longer than a few years. Especially a metal bracket can be interesting even in a few years if you happen to buy a case that doesn't support vertical mounting. Of course I don't need a manual for it myself but there are other examples of components where you might want a manual.
i love vertical GPU mounts, i made a video where i used a coolermaster vertical GPU mount in my S340 Elite, i did have to do some slight modifications but it turned out great. if you are thinking about doing it go for it its worth it.
Thing here is that you actually have to cut through the PCIe separators on the case in order to be able to connect the HDMI cable to the port on the graphics card.
I gotta say, I love the bloopers / outros to the video now. XD Also, Jay, what cooler is in the Meshify C ? Been wanting to do this but worried it won't fit with the cooler I have
I used this riser cable on my 780 ti and it failed under load. Then plugged my 960 and no problems tried the 780 ti again and failed, I put the 780 ti into the mobo and worked perfect!?
For the price of that you may as well just buy a case with vertical mount. Like this and a h500 costs more than a h510i elite, which also comes with an extra TG side panel, RGB strips, and RGB fans.
The main use for this adapters is for mini itx cases where you no need to sacrifice anything ( just one pcie) but then the adapter requieres 7 PCI slots. Great idea coolmod.
90% sure you can put those fans on the front of the case and they'll clear the front panel, that way you could fit the bigger cards in. I have a different fractal case and it works on mine
Well, that's because this mounting mechanism doesn't put your graphics card close to the side panel, thus not choking your cooler. Also, the title says "WHITHOUT affecting cooling"
no difference for me - now if you compared the temps to a vertical mount CLOSE to the glass vs temps with this one, you'll get a minor increase, I'm sure.
How are you plugging in the display port/hdmi/whatever cable with the "mesh" that gets created by the normal PCI slot cover things? I can't imagine those are wide enough to actually fit the cable between when mounted vertically.
You have to cut the horizontal slot covers. Idk why he didn't mention it, it's pretty much 90% of the process and a deal breaker for most people I assume.
This one is inset so you run the cable between the horizontal "bars". That's the whole reason it comes with those angled cables. No cutting is needed with these. Cooler Master and Phanteks make the ones you have to cut the bars with, or just use a Cooler Master case as it doesn't have those separators because of their adapter.
It's all high quality materials and components involved, there is indeed a price to that. Riser cable, the bracket itself with screws, and then two display cables. You definitely get what you pay for with this solution. Additionally, you don't need to mod your case to accommodate for it like you do with other vertical brackets. :)
@@beerenmusli8220 I did get that, in some cases it will be a few degrees warmer not really an issue, but there is a lot of cases with central vertical mounting as well, and this thing it totally not worth 80 USD, that is just a rip off.
@@muSPKwow it is not "in some cases" , it is in very case with vertical GPU mounting close to the side panel. And it is also more than "a few degrees" , it is enough to overstep the threshhold of thermal throttleling. And it is absolutely worth 80$, because it is a great way to showcase your GPU without affecting thermals. For the eyecatcher that it is, 80$ is absolutely worth it, if you compare it to other eye cathing mod parts.
@@beerenmusli8220 No its not in every case if that is was what you tried to say, and no one in there right mind would spend 80 USD on this accessory. Yes its just a few degrees, but also depends on case air flow and how many case fans you got. Only reason to buy this is if you are too lazy to rebuild your system in a new case.
@@muSPKwow Anyone serious about overclocking and aesthetics would choose this bracket instead of a case with vertical mounting close to the tempered glass panel. It also gives you the flexibility to use any case that fulfills your other needs, regardless if it has vertical mounting or not. IMO The price is right with two DP cables, especially considering the attention to detail and quality that Cablemod puts in their products.
Here's a crazy thought: this trend to mount GPUs vertically is a good indicator that, like with Optical Drives, having more than one PCI slot is not something most users actually need anymore. Most other "expansions" predominantly connect to your PC via a USB port, from cheap Bluetooth/WiFi dongles to expensive Sound Cards and audiophile DACs. So why won't manufacturers do away with PCIe slots to replace them with a second socket for the GPU or a MXM (Mobile PCI Express Module) like slot ? This way we could even mount proper tower coolers on the GPU and get rid of most of the issues with thermals during GPU intensive workloads or choose for ourselves how much VRAM we want to install (full size VRAM would also be cheaper to produce since they wouldn't need to be so small).
Crazy that i've seen this video just now. Love my Meshify C and would like to have this Vertical bracket... but would it fit with Dark rock pro 4 cooler and RTX 2060 Gaming Z...
The founders edition in this video is 267mm long. And it looks to me like at most there is 10mm between it and the front fans in the video. Look up the length of your card and make an educated guess.
On my X570 board it actually is a performance increase, my chipset fan is literally millimeters away from the GPU and is blocked by 98%. With a vertical stand the chipset fan can get cool air and the chipset went down in degrees. And yes, i get that this was made before we went back to the 90's with chipset fans but still, a must have for me.
Just for the record, I have a Coolermaster Cosmos 2 case (that I am gradually modding/improving and love) and it actually has 10 PCI slots. I intend to buy this cablemod piece and installing it in the Cosmos still allows the two top PCI-E 16X slots on my Asus Rampage VI Extreme to be used and my GPU is watercooled anyway so air is not an issue. So no loss at all in this case. Yet, since the motherboard already has a 10GB/NIC onboard I can still install a capture card and a sound card if I want to. I know the Cosmos 2 is an old case but here it has an advantage with its 10 PCI-E slots. I use an external Radiator so ample of space inside.
"Necessary" in this case is a matter of taste.Honestly, so is the "loss of practicality." On my old (486 through, oh, first gen i7) builds, this wouldn't fly, since I used sound cards, NICs and the like. My current build? Only has a video card. So if I wanted to do this, I could and it would probably work for years (until I needed to add... I don't know, a USB 4.1 port expansion or something.) Would I actually use this? I kind of doubt it, unles I were doing some sort of "showoff" build. And honestly, even if I were doing a "showoff" build on my current PC? I'd need a bracket that held the card vertically "upside down." My shroud has nothing (Asus Strix 1080ti.) The backplate and "top" have any lighting I'd use.
@@thehunter4873 who said buying different clothes is unnecessary? The point is it is not necessarily unnecessary. Because some do it for looks even if it blocks the pcie esp if they don't use it outside of a gpu. Just like how some remove car seats to make the car lighter. But if you need the seats then yes removing them would be a bad idea
I did make a vertical mounting bracket on one pc that mounted the card hanging down towards the front of the case without blocking any ports, but it was a very large case and you could say it looked less then elegant. not my pc btw, just an old acquaintance. he needed all of the other pci slots for RAID controllers.
It's nice, but by blocking ALL your other PCIE slots, now you might as well go ITX, and if you're gonna go ITX, you can go NCase M1 for which you can also get a vertical mount if you're willing to cut your chassis, or even a DanCase, but the latter doesn't have a window option. Only other trick is that Small Form Factor chassis are really a challenge to build in.
Would absolutely love some further testing regarding impact on temperature, cause it would make sense that the airflow would be better on vertical setup?
Don't want to be negative but at ~ 5:46 that is not a mechanism. Something a person who knows a lot about cars should know Jay :) Mechanism has moving parts, that is just a bracket or if you want a more fancy word you could call it a fixture :) Anyway cool vid but for me a useless thing because I prefer a PC case without a window and without RGB. Just plain and simple (maybe I'm too old).
Why not mount the card to the bottom or from for the fans to take in air directly from outside? This just for the looks stuff seems silly to me, it may have an actual benefit for cooling.
I find the plantek pcie 4 vertical gpu kit has extremely low profile and doesn't hinder the airflow. What I like about the card is the quality of the cable, super insulated against interference. I was going to get the Lian Li for my Dynamic 011 but the cable appeared flimsy and a bit boxy. I suspect the Lian Li would have been far more sturdier and better stability but I was looking for a vertical mount that had a low footprint and didn't hindered the airflow. These were just my observations and I'm pretty sure Lian Li is an excellent product. Also, commonsense dictates you don't move it close to the glass.
I ordered an extra long extension cable so I can put my gpu in the fridge
I buried mine hundreds of feet in the ground. Works great! The cable cost a thousand bucks though.
What kind of temps do you get. I'm wondering if it's an investment
Linus Tech Tips actually put a computer in a fridge and measured temperature/performance if you haven’t seen
It will not work, a refrigerator works on the basis of cold things stay cold. It cannot fight heat. Do what jay does, just put it in a cardboard box with a portable AC unit.
@@BenjaminSodos well it cool my hands if Im out in the fridge, and I have a constantla 34-36 Celsius... sooo what?
I'm holding out for the diagonal through the 4th dimension GPU mounts so I can mount my graphics card in the hyper-euclidean space between vertical and horizontal
Sam Chaney Phenomenal!
Impeccable calculations!
Don't forget to account for L-Space. Where are you going to fit all the books? Does anyone have an orangutan?
Let´s make it a quantum gpu mount so the gpu is not vertical nor horizontal, but both and none at the same time, that must look cool as fuck
Little known hack, just duct-tape a paperback copy of Flatland to the rear of your GPU and your FPS will rise exponentially.
I vertically mount my network card so I get better signal
I vertically mount my CPU for better temperatures, but for some reason it's not working..
@@thesmart1000 😂😂
Consider getting an RGB network card so the singal will be even stronger!
@@thesmart1000 its by default vertically mounted
@@AliYassinToma depends on how is the case oriented though
lay the case flat and you get a vertical mounted gpu
How stupid this comment is..
@@OPAgusta r/wooooosh moron
CERN wants to know your location.
@@wyatts9646 ...
Tvg Gaminz what bud?
You guys should definitely test the cooling differences between horizontal & vertical mounting!
Its negligible.
Depends on the case
o11 dynamic evo. normal mounting of my zotac 4090 gives slightly worse GPU temps at benefit of slightly better CPU temps, vertical mounting is the exact opposite. However what's key is that with normal mounting, my 12VHPWR cable for the GPU is horribly bent against the side tempered glass panel in order to close it, with vertical mounting, that issue doesn't exist. Definitely will work differently for different cases.
Just trip the case over and now your GPU is vertical
Can't believe Jay didn't think of this before.
Genius
I have two hot UA-camr girlfriends and I am the best UA-camr ever and YOUR savior. Good bye dear eklvewnrfiure
Hi. Does anyone know a case as short as omeshify C or shorter but higher so I can fit 420mm radiator?
lol
$60 USD?
That costs as much as most peoples cases lmao
YEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP
Daxton Anderson I mean pci-e risers alone are around €40,-
@@uccarpiyuz What about Aliexpress PCIe extensions?
@Teamgeist more like 3 months
Daxton Anderson I paid 7$ for mine on eBay took 3 weeks, works perfectly no performance lost.
how to this with integrated graphics pls
yes
James Jaboneta technically it already is
Why would you do this?
@@absoluteai41 yes
....maybe in fact your lady/man situation is in fact so diar you need to have a hottie on that super hot $1000 PCB you want to see for comfort as another player totally rocket jumps gibing you to kingdom come in an old quake style death-match! ...
Sorry man I was just playing a little bit assuming you mean vertical card mounting... maybe your card has an awesome graphic and light scheme and your MB is Naked... and since a lot of folks don't use anything other than a GPU this is an option ...
Personally my HAF942 case is already pretty old so likely my next build will replace it - since case labs went under ... I looking at a large wall-mount DIY thing though as honestly I always wanted to do one of those and I could get creative with my water cooling plumbing if I didn't have case constraints to worry about ... I liked the ones I seen others come up with and since I am sure I could do something like it I figured why the heck not =)
I would have liked to see some footage from the back and the effort of plugging in cables without removing the actual slots.
facts dude like wtf 😂😂
That looks awesome in a smaller case, like the Meshify C! Also, seeing how close to the motherboard the card mounts, it seems like they could make the bracket wider and use two extension cables to enable a second pci-e card (sound/capture) or even SLI with 2 dual slot cards. Obviously it wouldn't be ideal (and need better support for the bracket for SLI), but could work with adequate cooling especially in full tower cases.
This is a pretty cool approach for vertical mount GPUs. However, rather than supplying two full length DP cables, I would have preferred CableMod supply 3 DP & 1 HDMI short length cables that stick out just past the PCI slots. The full length cables going to the monitors then connect to these short extension cables just outside the chassis case. This would make it much easier to disconnect a monitor cable from the PC, without having to pull the GPU out to do it.
AFAIK the retail version actually only has these short Adapters and you can choose between 2x DP or 1x DP 1x HDMI.
@@xSirDingo Yeah, I just found a post where they said they switched from short extenders to long cables because people with cheap cables had problems. Kinda sad tbh.
When we launched the product originally, we were using DP adapters that routed just outside of the slats. The issue here is that some people had low quality DP cables that they were using. Lower quality DP cables cannot pass signal through adapters/extension cables, that is the entire reason we relaunched this kit actually, we had to make all new DP cables because people were thinking the bracket was defective, but we found that some monitor DP cables are just not able to pass signal through adapters/extensions. This is why we include full replacement DP cables now, so everyone gets a great out of box experience. :)
Seems like this would be a bear to unplug though once everything is mounted. Maybe rather than making new cables (that probably added yet more cost because of new tooling or whatever) and removing the ability to easily disconnect them, higher quality ones could have just been included along with the short extensions? It might have also been cool to have the short extensions terminate at pass-throughs mounted between the horizontal slats. That would allow for way easier plugging/unplugging without having to hold a loose cable end with the other hand or removing the card altogether.
@@DefMunkyYT we didn't change the pricing of the bracket even with the tooling costs of the new cables, we left it the same. But including extensions + replacement cables would have required added cost as that's more cables included. Additionally, once it's installed, how often are the vast majority of people swapping their hardware on their system? :)
please do a vertical temp comparison
This!
Gamer's Nexus did that couple of months ago.
@@Colaman112 yes but I believe his version was fairly close to the side panel and it was overheating. I could be wrong though. If the temps are good for this one I will be buying this.
@@chrishunter7065 He might have multiple videos like that but if you search for one called "Fact-Check: CableMod's Vertical GPU Thermals vs. Stock Case", you find one with this exact product (or atleast a prototype of it) compared to a horizontal mount and integrated vertical mount (in Colermaster H500M case).
Kyle did one with this same mount
So you lose all other pci slots ... ? This is the best we can do? not sure about this one but love you jay cool vid
Kotton if your not using the other slots then it won’t matter
Kotton, many cases like Thermaltake View series come with a vertical bracket and a dedicated slot on the case so you can have both the vertical GPU while being able to retain the use of the pcie slots. I did it with my TT view 71 and had vertical GPU and some m2 drives and a network card on pcie and worked just fine. I did not like the look so I went back traditional.
cac2244 the problem with those cases is that the GPU can't get any air because it's so close to the side panel. Because of that you will either have higher temperatures or will have to turn the fan speed up which will make the PC louder.
Use PCIe riser to use other slots.
it would be cool to somehow have this bracket allow low profile pci-e cards to fit behind the gpu so that you can have your gpu mounted vertically and then a bunch of low profile expansion cards behind it.
Well Jayz, OCD perfectionism aside, GPU sag is bad because of potential damage to the PCI-E slots. If the weight isn't directly rested on the slot, it's a win, regardless of aesthetics IMO.
I'm thinking vertical mounting would be great with water cooled cards, the fan choking would be a non issue and it would allow you to display the flow beautifully.
As to the comment about why they mount video cards with the cooler side down: All cards for PC's started out mounting with the components side up. Including when they first started to make "higher end" video cards back in the 1990's (which means GPU, heat sinks, fans, capacitors etc) were on the TOP of the card. However they soon realized there was a design flaw with this method as so many cards would collect dust on top of these components. This dust would cause cooling issue - as well accumulated dust or whatever else fell on the card could cause a short between pins on IC's. Also fans were subject to items falling into them. So to avoid this they simply flipped the cards upside down.
(I remember the first time I purchased a higher end video card back in the early 1990's I was convinced I was sold a faulty video card because it looked like they installed it upside down thinking how is this going to work the pins will be reversed? Anyhow ever since then pretty much all cards are made with the components side down.
Hi AstarOfDavid. That's a new one. At the time the most often stated "logic" behind the change had to do with better utilisation of cooler air at the "slot" end of system cases, and the justifications were more about the need to limit the amount of heat dumped directly into the more critical "CPU" side. Either way, having hot components on the "underside" of a PCB (as with PCIe gfx cards in a "standard" ATX tower setup) is itself a "design flaw" that arguably creates more thermal issues than it solves.
Hmm, funny, I heard a totally separate story for why PCIe cards have bottom-facing fans. I heard that it was done so that motherboards could be made with ISA and PCI slots right next to each other, using the same slot in the back of the case, because the PCB is offset relative to the bracket. In those days, everybody needed at least 2-3 slots, and given that it's impractical to put more than 7 slots in a case, it makes sense to give users the freedom to use all their slots any way they want, so they don't have to think about how many of each specific standard they want when buying a motherboard.
Hi @@ThoolooExpress. Initially the only "upside down" card slot was the AGP port and it's introduction had no effect whatsoever on the number of cards a system could technically be populated with. In practice it may have resulted in people shifting their first PCI card down one slot to spare it from being overheated by their graphics card (and to allow more airflow to the gpu) but that was usually no big deal, even on m-ATX boards, given the vast majority of users typically used only two discrete cards by that stage (a gfx card and a dial-up modem).
The same applies to later mixed PCIe/PCI boards. Some transition boards took advantage of the slot offset relative to the bracket to allow the user to populate either a PCIe slot or it's accompanying PCI slot (but not both - either choice would physically block access to the other slot). That design undoubtedly cost the manufacturer more but still didn't limit the maximum number of cards a given system could use and actually gave the user more freedom to mix and place PCI/PCIe cards as they chose.
I suspect the AGP slot electronically needed to be closer to the CPU and that the "upside-down" build of the AGP/PCIe cards was influenced both by the thermal considerations of doing so (so as to not overheat the SB/CPU) and the economic need to conform to existing backplate/case design.
The outro was awesome nice one Jay.
Respect
just wanted to say that I appriciate that you are using the same case as I have, the attempt at making it useful for me specifically is astounding! :P
“You’re going to lose your pcie accessories slots”
**leaves video**
What did you think was gonna happen dummy, 😂
@@peterjohnson1379 it would be designed in a way that you could have at least 1 slot free
@@Darkheart19981 Providing there's room in the case, what about positioning the bracket along the vertical plane to free up some slots?
I've got the phanteks one on the way and I'm just gonna cut a fuckin hole in it for the network card antenna lmao
@@jamesaron1967 I was under the impression that most cases only have 7 expansion slots and this bracket seems to take up all of them
I used one of these in my lian li 011 case with aorus GeForce rtx 2070 super very much worth it visually and plenty of space for airflow
"Come with me if you want to lift".... 💪😌 I want one!
That is a great shirt!
yep I actually want to buy one for my colleague I don't lift but he does, respect for his efforts
Hell yeah.
*But it's so satisfying to look at the centre, this is how it should be*
5:14 I just 3d printed my design for a GPU support.
It's just a pillar where the airborne section of my GPU can rest on. Prevention is better than fixing.
Bought this after seeing this and other reviews. One BIG CAVEAT: in many cases you will not be able to mount a fan or rad underneath this bracket so be aware of this tradeoff that this card can cut down on your case's cooling capacity. The only way to move your gpu up a little bit is to move up the entire bracket assembly, which may not be possible.
I wish there was some way to adjust the height of it. It fills up the entire pcie section on the back of my case and i need to boost it up a bit (i have clearance space) to put a bottom radiator / fan underneath.
Love the new ad, best part is Phil's laughter at the end
I know this is an old video lol I'd love to see a test showing how the gpu thermals do with that adapter compared to it being mounted standard. I'd hope, with the added distance from the front panel, it would perform the same as standard.
@Wopsil actually I think with the open heatsink styled cards it would actually be better since heat rises and when you mount it horizontally since now there are more exposed sides?
@Wopsil actually it depends on the case, I dropped 8 degrees putting my 2070 super vertical because the airflow under the card wasn't the best when compared to the top of the case
lol never stop including the bloopers, love it
I've been running the cooler master bracket. I had to modify my case for it. If this bracket was available I might have gone this route.
So you dont have a supported case for it ? Like cm maker
@@Xenoray1 nope. I modded my Phanteks Enthoo PRO M Tempered glass case.
This is the same thought I had, that this bracket would allow normally unsupported cases (such as my Corsair Carbide Air 540) to use vertical GPU mounting. I may consider it at some point, although it'll move my card back and I'll have to ditch the PowerLink (or it'll interfere with my front fans)
@@Xenoray1 I also modded my NZXT H700 to use the CM adapter. Just had to trim out the six horizontal slats and it fit perfectly. I actually prefer the CM one since you can directly access the back of the graphics card. It mounts it pretty close to the MB as well so you get plenty of air flow for the GPU fans.
@@Jenachy yeah that was our approach with this bracket, we wanted to put one on the market that required no case modding, but also one that allows for proper airflow to your GPU to ensure you don't choke your GPU, increasing thermals, and reducing clocks. :)
I have a Corsair 460X Crystal Series Glass case and use the CoolerMaster vertical gpu bracket to mount my Strix 2080TI and it fits and looks amazing. No cooling issues at all with 6 Corsair HD120 fans. System is quite quiet too. I was going to go with a larger case but I like the 460X because I can pick it up easy and carry it under my armpit with one arm when I take it out on my patio every once in a while to do a dust blow out on the whole system.
When you integrate it into a permanent build, have a couple holes for fans (blowing outwards) cut into the side of the case. This should help with the thermal issue that everyone is worried about. RGB fans. Kinda tricky with glass, but I know you're pretty resourceful.
"getting it to fit in there is going to be a challenge" I am so disappointed you didn't do anything with that comment lol
Hey, if you wanted to use the upper 4x slot in Skunkworks, it looks like there's space to move the CableMod adapter one slot down...
Oh, and because of the metal slots remaining in the original cases, wouldn't it be easier to route the right-angle cables BEFORE screwing the adapter in place?
The cable plugs are extra long... so they insert easily through the bars...
Sagging on a bracket like that is *WAY* better than it sagging in your motherboard. I’m going to get one for that purpose alone!
Or you could just spend like 15 bucks for a gpu brace....
@@ForeverMasterless this is true, $20 more you can get get the vertical mount it changes the look of your pc and all the weight is on the case not the motherboard.
I 3d printed a custom vertical GPU mount. Works great and didn't require any cutting because the Lian Li case I used doesn't have dividers just slightly oversized covers.
PSA: Don't bend the riser cable right at the ends like that, roll it around something to pre-form your bends. Better still, the ThermalTake premium cable is more flexible and better for off-set bends.
$20 shipping for a $60 product is a showstopper for me. Hope they'll make this product available on Amazon so free shipping is a possibility.
For 80 USD you can get a new case with vertical mounting, this is a total ripoff in pricing.
Honestly it's such a cheap product they should just be selling it for £20
2:13 I watch your videos at work, and I'm gonna need you to not make me laugh that hard please.
Food for thought:
Would thermals be better is the fans were facing into the centre of the case rather than out? Or for that matter, would GPU thermals be better if they could be mounted with the fans facing up (ie upside down mounting with the fans on pull instead of push)?
I recently realized that in a tower case with the GPU card mounted directly on the MoBo the gpu chips are actually on the top of eventual gpu-water-block. This means that any air accumulated in the water-block would actually separate the surface in need of cooling from the rest of the water. It would be rather extreme case to completely separate the gpu hot surface from the water - a lot of air needs to accumulate there, but given that in such classic configuration the gpu (and water-block) face is looking down you might not notice it until your gpu performance start to drop considerably.
From a perspective of putting anything as you want to, this thing does have potential to serve a purpose of custom built chassis configurations from scratch where you don´t have much to choose from to mount parts onto.
I got vertical mounted 25GB hard drive and now its 1TB
@jayztwocents - So, with vertical mounting is there any 'latency' when you use a cable on the graphics card vs physically on the board? I noticed when I tried the vertical mount that came with my Genome Deepcool case, I was experiencing a lot of latency and crashing. Just curious.
Now how do you plug in your video cables? They become obstructed by the ancient pci e slots...
extension cable connected
In that particular mid tower it not only looks VERY noice but being fixed in the center it prevents the card from being choke, as Jay said. I have seen so many vertical mount cases that position the gpu almost flush against the side of the case it stops being funny.
Skip to 12:15; that's when the video finally gets good.
Love the Arnold shirt!
I'm glad companies are becoming less wasteful. Accessing a QR code with your phone isn't much of an extra hassle to having a bigass manual in every language known to pluto
Except for when you want to access it five years from now and their website got redesigned and the product isn't supported anymore.
@@pcfreak1992 why would you want to see the original manual for some product that went out 5 years ago? I mean, it's like having the manual for a sandy lake cpu. I'm sure you lost it or don't remember where you stored it.
@@somedude2492 some things last longer than a few years. Especially a metal bracket can be interesting even in a few years if you happen to buy a case that doesn't support vertical mounting. Of course I don't need a manual for it myself but there are other examples of components where you might want a manual.
Exactly - instead of including 10+ papers per packaged product, you include 1 with a link (+QR code) to a guide. :)
This is a pretty simple product. A manual would've easily fit on that piece of paper.
What about the new 40 series? Would it hold them at 3.75 slot gpu 😂
i love vertical GPU mounts, i made a video where i used a coolermaster vertical GPU mount in my S340 Elite, i did have to do some slight modifications but it turned out great. if you are thinking about doing it go for it its worth it.
Ha, no one cared even 3 years later
Thing here is that you actually have to cut through the PCIe separators on the case in order to be able to connect the HDMI cable to the port on the graphics card.
I gotta say, I love the bloopers / outros to the video now. XD
Also, Jay, what cooler is in the Meshify C ? Been wanting to do this but worried it won't fit with the cooler I have
That looks like one of the Cooler Master hyper 212 coolers
Yep, maybe a modded or black version of a 212 evo, from coolermaster.
I used this riser cable on my 780 ti and it failed under load. Then plugged my 960 and no problems tried the 780 ti again and failed, I put the 780 ti into the mobo and worked perfect!?
Last time I was this early my verticality mounted GPU was 40c
wat xD
One more time in English, please?
Ha ha!
that's what i get horizontally under full load 😂😂
For the price of that you may as well just buy a case with vertical mount. Like this and a h500 costs more than a h510i elite, which also comes with an extra TG side panel, RGB strips, and RGB fans.
The main use for this adapters is for mini itx cases where you no need to sacrifice anything ( just one pcie) but then the adapter requieres 7 PCI slots. Great idea coolmod.
$20.00 Flat Rate Shipping!? Hard to justify a total cost of $79.90 for this.
its worth it, i have one
Well worth it. Got mine on eBay for 50 bucks with free shipping.
Yeah, you could get a new case with vertical mounting like a NZXT H500i
@@Charlie-et4td true but then it would be right up on the glass.
I wish there was something like this to put a regular GPU into a low profile case.
how the hell do you plug in the display cable when you have the vertical metal pieces covering the ports
I had to remove the metal pieces, it was painfull but looks amazing
extension cable connected
90% sure you can put those fans on the front of the case and they'll clear the front panel, that way you could fit the bigger cards in. I have a different fractal case and it works on mine
I remember back in 2004, Silverstone added vertical mounts to their cases. But we used them for lighting switch mounts at that time.
And at no point was temperatures discussed, thanks for that
Well, that's because this mounting mechanism doesn't put your graphics card close to the side panel, thus not choking your cooler. Also, the title says "WHITHOUT affecting cooling"
This will help 5700XT's with bad mounting pressure.
8:40
@@broklond and im a transformer - you get the point?
ye da fk?
Test the thermals
same temps, different aesthetics
hotter
no difference for me - now if you compared the temps to a vertical mount CLOSE to the glass vs temps with this one, you'll get a minor increase, I'm sure.
good. I HEVE reaction VDIEO
currently using a generic riser, im using it for mining. bought it for $5.
so far so good, no extra noise or heat from the DIY vertical GPU setup.
Bruh, admittedly I don't watch you regularly but the fact you have zip up hoodies is awesome! why do people not do that to much anymore.
How are you plugging in the display port/hdmi/whatever cable with the "mesh" that gets created by the normal PCI slot cover things? I can't imagine those are wide enough to actually fit the cable between when mounted vertically.
You have to cut the horizontal slot covers. Idk why he didn't mention it, it's pretty much 90% of the process and a deal breaker for most people I assume.
@@Ginbly38 Confirmed deal breaker. Thanks for the info!
This one is inset so you run the cable between the horizontal "bars". That's the whole reason it comes with those angled cables. No cutting is needed with these. Cooler Master and Phanteks make the ones you have to cut the bars with, or just use a Cooler Master case as it doesn't have those separators because of their adapter.
You simply install the display cables to the GPU, and then route them out the back, then install the bracket screws.
@@DefMunkyYT Ah, cool! Wasn't clear from the vid, but makes sense!
It's not worth 60$
especially since you get a new case with a bracket for 80€/$
Wat wtf that’s almost more then my case
Just the pci-e extension is worth like 35-40 bucks. Aluminium+work on the piece is worth maybe 5 bucks. 15 dollars that cablemod wins is fair enough.
My pc was only $10.
It's all high quality materials and components involved, there is indeed a price to that. Riser cable, the bracket itself with screws, and then two display cables. You definitely get what you pay for with this solution. Additionally, you don't need to mod your case to accommodate for it like you do with other vertical brackets. :)
Way too expensive at 80 USD (20 USD shipping cost lol), you are better off just buying a new case with vertical mounting.
I think you did not get that that almost always cuts the airflow off the GPU and therefore is resuliting in bad thermals.
@@beerenmusli8220 I did get that, in some cases it will be a few degrees warmer not really an issue, but there is a lot of cases with central vertical mounting as well, and this thing it totally not worth 80 USD, that is just a rip off.
@@muSPKwow it is not "in some cases" , it is in very case with vertical GPU mounting close to the side panel. And it is also more than "a few degrees" , it is enough to overstep the threshhold of thermal throttleling. And it is absolutely worth 80$, because it is a great way to showcase your GPU without affecting thermals. For the eyecatcher that it is, 80$ is absolutely worth it, if you compare it to other eye cathing mod parts.
@@beerenmusli8220 No its not in every case if that is was what you tried to say, and no one in there right mind would spend 80 USD on this accessory.
Yes its just a few degrees, but also depends on case air flow and how many case fans you got. Only reason to buy this is if you are too lazy to rebuild your system in a new case.
@@muSPKwow Anyone serious about overclocking and aesthetics would choose this bracket instead of a case with vertical mounting close to the tempered glass panel. It also gives you the flexibility to use any case that fulfills your other needs, regardless if it has vertical mounting or not. IMO The price is right with two DP cables, especially considering the attention to detail and quality that Cablemod puts in their products.
Here's a crazy thought: this trend to mount GPUs vertically is a good indicator that, like with Optical Drives, having more than one PCI slot is not something most users actually need anymore. Most other "expansions" predominantly connect to your PC via a USB port, from cheap Bluetooth/WiFi dongles to expensive Sound Cards and audiophile DACs. So why won't manufacturers do away with PCIe slots to replace them with a second socket for the GPU or a MXM (Mobile PCI Express Module) like slot ? This way we could even mount proper tower coolers on the GPU and get rid of most of the issues with thermals during GPU intensive workloads or choose for ourselves how much VRAM we want to install (full size VRAM would also be cheaper to produce since they wouldn't need to be so small).
Cooler Master's vertical GPU mount doesn't take up more length. So you could use it in smaller cases. Check it out.
3:03 I am clicking the paper with the QR code and nothing happens
Hah! My case had a vertically mounted motherboard! It’s literally a box shape!
AUTOMATIC LIKE FOR THE ARNOLD SHIRT: Come with me if you want to lift :)
2:50 Not every card surely, why not just the smallest and the largest card?
For sli you put one vertically like this one and the other one to a mini fridge next to your case with also tempered glass for the looks
Crazy that i've seen this video just now. Love my Meshify C and would like to have this Vertical bracket... but would it fit with Dark rock pro 4 cooler and RTX 2060 Gaming Z...
The founders edition in this video is 267mm long. And it looks to me like at most there is 10mm between it and the front fans in the video. Look up the length of your card and make an educated guess.
"jay.exe has encountered an error" 😂😂😂
Well, I'd love to do this, but I can't run my headset without a soundcard, sooo...
External amplifier via USB type c
On my X570 board it actually is a performance increase, my chipset fan is literally millimeters away from the GPU and is blocked by 98%. With a vertical stand the chipset fan can get cool air and the chipset went down in degrees.
And yes, i get that this was made before we went back to the 90's with chipset fans but still, a must have for me.
Just for the record, I have a Coolermaster Cosmos 2 case (that I am gradually modding/improving and love) and it actually has 10 PCI slots. I intend to buy this cablemod piece and installing it in the Cosmos still allows the two top PCI-E 16X slots on my Asus Rampage VI Extreme to be used and my GPU is watercooled anyway so air is not an issue. So no loss at all in this case. Yet, since the motherboard already has a 10GB/NIC onboard I can still install a capture card and a sound card if I want to. I know the Cosmos 2 is an old case but here it has an advantage with its 10 PCI-E slots. I use an external Radiator so ample of space inside.
So by doing something unnecessary, you lose all practicality. Count me out.
Lorne Nix but it looks great
"Necessary" in this case is a matter of taste.Honestly, so is the "loss of practicality." On my old (486 through, oh, first gen i7) builds, this wouldn't fly, since I used sound cards, NICs and the like. My current build? Only has a video card. So if I wanted to do this, I could and it would probably work for years (until I needed to add... I don't know, a USB 4.1 port expansion or something.) Would I actually use this? I kind of doubt it, unles I were doing some sort of "showoff" build. And honestly, even if I were doing a "showoff" build on my current PC? I'd need a bracket that held the card vertically "upside down." My shroud has nothing (Asus Strix 1080ti.) The backplate and "top" have any lighting I'd use.
Why do it if it’s unnecessary then? Most people only have the gpu these days, so, to each his own
Cons29 by that logic why do anything that’s unnecessary? Like why buy different styles of clothes when it’s unnecessary
@@thehunter4873 who said buying different clothes is unnecessary? The point is it is not necessarily unnecessary. Because some do it for looks even if it blocks the pcie esp if they don't use it outside of a gpu. Just like how some remove car seats to make the car lighter. But if you need the seats then yes removing them would be a bad idea
60$ for a couple of sheets of metal is a bit of a rip off.....
Don't forget the 20 USD shipping cost, so in total 80 USD, you could get a new case with vertical mounting for that amount of money.
worth it
I rather buy a cheap Aliexpress PCIe extension and zip tie the Graphics card.
He mentioned product testing, and the fact that they tested multiple GPU'S is worth something
Who else is crying because they have a micro atx case with only 4 brackets?😐
EDDI me
Definitely me
Modify the vertical bracket to fit the mATX.
I did make a vertical mounting bracket on one pc that mounted the card hanging down towards the front of the case without blocking any ports, but it was a very large case and you could say it looked less then elegant. not my pc btw, just an old acquaintance. he needed all of the other pci slots for RAID controllers.
The Meshify C Case was the best case to do this mod in my opinion. Nice Video Sir.
Is the Post Malone build still a thing?
It is finished but old posty is too busy for the finale
In the background
I dont think Post Malone really cares
@@bhew7409 right on the nose
10:20 needs requires googly eyes
YES
AND a smiling mouth sticker or something
"Help me I'm trapped in a editing factory" ahahahahh
CoolerMaster did this years ago. Now Cablemod makes the same thing and all of a sudden it's revolutionnary.
It's nice, but by blocking ALL your other PCIE slots, now you might as well go ITX, and if you're gonna go ITX, you can go NCase M1 for which you can also get a vertical mount if you're willing to cut your chassis, or even a DanCase, but the latter doesn't have a window option. Only other trick is that Small Form Factor chassis are really a challenge to build in.
says gpu size
"ladies" 😂👌
"without affecting cooling"
shows no temps or benchmarks to validate claims.
Damnit Linus, now i'm gonna have to ask Steve to do a video about this.
Linus?
I trust him regardless of proof
UltraInstinctShaggy jay is secretly linus
“I digress.”
That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Yes, it means, what he thinks it means.
Would absolutely love some further testing regarding impact on temperature, cause it would make sense that the airflow would be better on vertical setup?
T'es partout toi décidément x)
Don't want to be negative but at ~ 5:46 that is not a mechanism. Something a person who knows a lot about cars should know Jay :)
Mechanism has moving parts, that is just a bracket or if you want a more fancy word you could call it a fixture :)
Anyway cool vid but for me a useless thing because I prefer a PC case without a window and without RGB. Just plain and simple (maybe I'm too old).
$80 shipped is pretty steep, that's the cost for a whole case and a good one at that. So, where's that Post Malone case? Wah wah
"Help me im trapped in an editing factory" hahahaha
What kind of lowlife turn on the bell just to dislike the video without even finishing it yet ?
Maybe a person that thought they could mount their integrated graphics vertically.
@@penumbrum3135 First he failed to download more RAM, and now this...
Some people are born assholes right out of the box.
Why not mount the card to the bottom or from for the fans to take in air directly from outside? This just for the looks stuff seems silly to me, it may have an actual benefit for cooling.
I find the plantek pcie 4 vertical gpu kit has extremely low profile and doesn't hinder the airflow. What I like about the card is the quality of the cable, super insulated against interference. I was going to get the Lian Li for my Dynamic 011 but the cable appeared flimsy and a bit boxy. I suspect the Lian Li would have been far more sturdier and better stability but I was looking for a vertical mount that had a low footprint and didn't hindered the airflow. These were just my observations and I'm pretty sure Lian Li is an excellent product. Also, commonsense dictates you don't move it close to the glass.