This is an excellent video. High quality, clear and concise information, without any fluff, stupid jokes, or ridiculous music. Really appreciate that. Great to hear from someone who actually understands the system and can explain it so well.
@@alexhatcher8812 This is a tricky question, but the bottom line is machoism, plus some actual road & manufacturing problems reported to/at GMC. Molding or stamping rectangular panels is easier, for alignment purposes. This is also an artifact of the newer computer-design programs, where reference positions have to be measured by robotic sensors. I worked at IBM on this, and curved surfaces are a bitch to get right. Major cost & reject issues, particularly for fiberglass & composites. The real truckers reported mud & snow & ice packing issues inside round wheelwells, and we had similar issues for the combat vehicles. My guess is that a rectangular well drops or ejects impacted material better, since it has more lateral flexure movement inherently. Over-sized wheels do not seem to be an issue, since the jounce & rebound & forward-back are based on clearance dimensions, any direction. Lastly, the small-commercial contractors seem to prefer squared-off truck bed wheel wells, so that they have flat surfaces to attach boxes to, or lay stuff on, such as sheets of plywood. Round wells are terrible if you have ever tried to pack a truck-bed full with square boxes or objects. PassItOn.
I have a 2018 RAV4. The rear motor also activates during “kickdown” when overtaking. This even happens at high speeds too, when the gas pedal is floored. This is according to the graphic display screen on my car.
Thank you for this video Professor Kelly. The sign of a superior instructor is one who has the ability to convey information to students in such a way that they can explain it to others. I feel I can give a quick elevator speech on the subject, maybe not all the model numbers and gear ratios, but at least the concepts.
We have a 2012 Prius and a 2020 R4H (also an e-tron but that's another topic) so I am finding your videos interesting and informative! I would have enjoyed having you as a teacher way back when I was in college. Nice work.
I understand the highlander has a solenoid to control the gear reduction planetary, which I read about somewhere, and I was hoping to find a video from you that shows / explains it, but have not found one. Thanks for all of your videos, very helpful and useful.
3:10 1FM is indeed the "axle" code used in the 2.4 Estima hybrid & also the Alphard hybrid in Japan. Btw thank you for your videos. I've actually been to Weber State university before but did not know such a good programme existed for auto mechanics.
Thanks. Greetings from a UC Berkeley ME. I just bought a 08 Highlander Hybrid. Your explanations are hell of a lot more fun than reading the hundreds of pages owner's manuals ... thanks.
Thanks for the video, I found it very educational. The only discrepancy I noticed from my ‘06 Highlander is it’s mounted reversed from your videos descriptions.
It's like looking at the future mechanic's shop. Complete reassembly and plugging in of a new rear end and barely getting your hands dirty. Great informative video as always!
This is the reason why I have a Rav4 hybrid rather than a regular Rav4. I've been a Toyota tech for 25 years and I have NEVER seen any problem with this electric rear axle. Compare that to the coupler problem commonly associated with Gen 3 Rav4.
Interesting video, first time I have seen inside one of these hybrid transaxle motors, will need to get up to speed with your Prius series of videos, G'day from Australia.
I just realized that these rear axles could be great for projects--- I looked them up on ebay and they were only $250 used... Wow, this would be an easy EV conversion build.
I am considering purchase of a 2021 Rav 4 Prime, and I assume the rear drive axle will be this Q211, or a variation on it. I'm glad that you pointed out the cooling fins and the need to keep them free of mud, I probably wouldn't think of that myself. I've watched your P610 deep dive video a couple of times now. I bought a Prius Prime last year, and your deep dive video is far and away the best explanation of the Prius transaxle I've ever seen. Thanks for doing these videos!
@@WeberAuto 50kW should be enough if it is compact 3d hatchback for everyday office-home driving and more - can use two of those transaxles in 4wd scheme, so having 100kW
John @ Weber Auto, when are you going to do the newer 2020 of the RAV4 Hybrid AWD, and the Prime? I would really like to see that as I have one. These videos you make are the best informational videos out on vehicles. Thank you for doing them.
My brain exploded at 9:58...I'm truly humbled...at how smart car people are...I hate working on cars/fords...got a 2019 Toyota Camery Hybrid Le...no problems in 3 years
Professor. You could have a million+ views if you tore apart a Model 3 in the same fashion as your other videos. The school needs to buy a dual motor version so you can see the front and rear drive units.
Hi, professor . Want to first thank you i gained much more Knowledge watching your channel to my long time experience in Automotive technologies , if i was 40 years younger it would be a privilege to join your class at the Weber University , want to ask if you ever or going to cover another hybrid technology Used in Mitsubishi /Hyundai transmissions like the 6 speed A6MF2H which uses a clutch instead of a Torque converter
We just got the 2017 highlander hybrid, and having independent front and rear motors providing traction is better than having an open front to rear differential on the non-hybrid model which only temporarily engages front-rear lock via electromagnetic coupling after detecting slippage. Coupled with traction control which mimic limited slip differential between left and right wheels both front and back, there is almost never a time where the awd-i requires more traction. I understand from other sources that, as well as at launch, the awd is also engaged when turning and going uphill up to 25 mph.
Brian K It is much better to have electromagnetic coupling instead of this electric invention. Here is how electric awd "works" in Rav4: ua-cam.com/video/so8JLIYc1yU/v-deo.html
@@LDubsChannel iv driven one. 17 highlander. Complete garbage in snow, wheel spins a few times than gives up for a few seconds, (spins with very little torque)
thank you very much for this useful video , can you next time explain power transmission for electrical car however it the same idea but the design is different , wish you all the best
I've been trying to use my non-engineer brian to understand how I could make classic or antique cars hybrid axle vehicles. Something like this might work as the heart and brain I've been trying to find. I also hope your explanation will help me reach my goal of 40 MPG in my Lincoln Mark Vii 😂
On my 2012 highlander the unit is mounted opposite of what you said. The half shaft outputs are the rear of the unit. The drain and fill plugs are on the drivers side. Maybe you mis spoke or the rav is different. threw me off haha. Thanks for posting this info!
I wish you could get hold of the rear drive of the 2012-2018 PSA Peugeot-Citroën HYbrid4 system. I am planning to do a similar review, as it deserves some light thrown on it. Wish I could work with you.
Please make a video about Volvo T8 electric rear axle or similar GKN eAxle drive unit - those are actually able to drive a car by themselves in pure EV modes, though I imagine are similar in concept to this Q211.
Great video. So the electric motor is bathed in oil? Wouldn't that create a lot of drag at those high rpm? And at 244 volts doesn't it conduct electricity?
I am a follower an a fun of your channel from Nairobi Kenya. I am a vehicle mechanic and really interested in hybrid vecle mechanics because of shortage of technicians with this knowledge of hybrids vehicles here. I love to know if and where I can get more training manuals on these vehicles.
Hi Professor, About a year ago I was driving my 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid up a slightly steep hill when I noticed the car started to vibrate seriously. I parked and called my not too highly technical mechanic (for Hybrid) come and check and probably fix up the car. We changed the transmission fluid in the main Transaxle but the vibration continued. On his way driving the car to another garage the vehicle shut down. It was then Towed to the other garage where the transmission mechanic told me that main Transaxle was damaged. I got another in Sierra Leone from the same model vehicle but the car did not start, ordered one through a friend from USA it still did not start up. I was also told to change the Inverter/Converter, I initially got one from a 2009 Highlander that involved in accident in Sierra Leone, the car did not still Start. Bought another Inverter/Converter from the USA the car is still not starting. About three months to this issue I did use the car for Towing a Lexus RX 300 for a distance of about 40km. By the way I live in Sierra Leone, West Africa. Prof. please advise in this regard what should I do to fix this car up. My email address is musafrancisbaba@yahoo.com Warm Regards
thank you sooooo much for your breakdown video. very helpful to understand what i am up against. I have a leak on the driver’s side shaft/case seal. Was told it needed the whole motor-axle replaced $1500 new + $1000 labor. Toyota Service: "Looks like truck is drove off road" (sic). I have yet to find breakdown of parts within motor-axle case to see if i could source just the final gear bearing. Do you have any such breakdown? i suspect it really isn't a serviceable part. both sides have a small amount of in/out play but the leaking side has some side-side play in it. Idk: 2009 w 205k miles. Hard to justify entire replacement and I can’t tell if salvage parts include the stub shaft subassembly and seal. i have not seen any video on actually uninstalling/installing unit from vehicle. seems like it shouldn't be to hard, but are there any Toyota surprises there? thx, k miller
Sorry if this has already been asked/answered, but what would the estimated power split range be for the RAV4 hybrid system under normal and low traction conditions? For example (a total guess) under normal front/back min split of 90/10 and under low traction max split of 60/40 or 50/50? Since there is no transfer case to "disconnect" the rear e-diff, some power must always be provide to the rear e-diff to avoid drag, hence my 90/10 instead of 100/0.
The 2020 Highlander Hybrid has the Toyota Hybrid System II with a four cylinder gas engine and a smaller MG3 rear motor - similar to the 2020 RAV4. Toyota claims that with this new "e-four" system the rear motor, while being smaller, can deliver more torque to the rear wheels than the previous system. Is this done with gear reduction as explained in this video about the Q211?
The yellow label states the motor produces 67 horse power. That would be just enough To use it in an electric conversion in a subcompact car from the 80’s. Like my ‘88 crx hf which made 59hp from the 55mpg 1.5L 8valve engine and still got up to 80mph on the freeway weighing only 1700 pounds. The only issue would be the final weight after conversion with all the batteries if 67hp would be able to get it up to a 75mph speed limit. The new 2021 sienna awd has an electric motor in the back but it’s rated at 54hp.
Thank you for your great videos! I have one question: What if you are on a hilly offroad ride and the battery is empty - can the engine produce enough power to fully drive the real axle?
High voltage battery will never be truly 0 percent discharge. Also it will never be truly 100 percent charged. This is Toyota built in safety measures for long-term reliability. In real world battery is only going from 20 - 80 percent. A lithium ion battery lifespan is prolonged when it's being charged / discharge within that range. So in your case the ICE will be on high power as both motor and generator while MG1 , MG2 and MGR will all be on as both motor and generator to quickly replenish that battery and help push car up incline. This is my rough understanding but I'm no expert. Toyota hybrid system is truly a marvel of engineering.
WeberAuto they are starting to appear on eBay over here for not ridiculous money. It looks like the 2 motor/generators are mounted externally from what I can see from looking online. An interesting transaxle...
I'd always wondered if this rear drive unit would be good for doing an EV conversion on some small, light car. After seeing this presentation I suspect it would overheat in continuous duty.
Iv driven a highlander in the snow with this thing. Its very weak. Barely spins, has to think twice before spinning a little. Knowing toyota im sure that motor would not handle being a main motor.
@@vadimnesen8060 Hi, Mr. Nesen: Yes I was wondering about that. As we know, it seems to help to spin the wheels to get optimum snow traction. The motor is 50 KW.. with a LOT of torque after the reduction gearing. Seems like in snow it could spin. Does anyone know if the control system restricts MGR from spinning (slipping) the rear wheels? Can it be overridden by the operator? thx
Thank you very much for this useful video. I did not see any clutches. It means that rear motor always in use(rotor rotates always) ? And vehicle uses 4wd full time?
Thanks for the video! So does the rear motor actually get power from the ICE when the hybrid battery is depleted? Another question, in your experience does the rear motor provide adequate power to even be considered AWD and does it perform well in snowy, poor traction conditions? Curious how it would perform with light off-road such as a rocky fire road. Thanks.
this electric system looks to be perfect for rear drive of my chevy hhr... or would I need another one in front to share the load of normal street and freeway use? Thanks for your time in answering.
Interesting idea. There may some sort of aftermarket battery and controller that could power it. This system was not intended for continuous use, only for traction assist. It would overheat with continuous use.
Thank you very much for this video - highly informative. I accidentally dropped a fluid hard plastic straight tube attachment filler when I pumped in the fluid - apparently hasn't caused any damage. The tube was thick hard plastic about 6" long - what do you think?
When I drained front transaxle (CVT-I) fluid and refilled with fresh fluid, the quick release on the lube pump released the attached tube mentioned above and it fell inside the transmission case.
I understand that the Q211 in my Highlander Hybrid provides power to turn the rear axle when the computer determines it needs power to turn the wheels and I understand that the Q211 provides regenerative power for the battery when braking. What's going on with the motor between these two situations? Does the motor just "freewheel" - neither using electricity or producing it? Wouldn't just the turning of the motor inside the stator produce current and therefore resistance/drag?
Good question. The motor just free spins in that condition without generating any current due to the Inverter creating an open circuit in the stator coil circuits. Without current, there is just induced voltage and no power generation. I hope that helps.
The new 2018 Highlander Hybird AWD-i now possesses 308hp net system power as it received the new 2GR-FXS which gets direct injection & VVT-iW, as does the 2018 Lexus RX450h. I think the MGR is identical (it is hard to find info on the rear drive unit) so the power gains are likely from the gasoline engine change. Still finally a review on the MGR which seems to be glossed over, even in the PriusChat technical forums. A simple way of adding AWD to a SUV which customers demand without significantly altering the front drive HSD unit, but I question the effectiveness of only 67hp & 96lb/ft of torque can do in the real world however (especially when the front axle is stuck in snow for example). Personally compared to the Lexus RX450h, I find the newer Acura MDX Sport Hybird is similar in design but more elaborate; the MGR in the Lexus is replaced by two smaller electric motors on each rear axle independently, each rated at 36hp & 54lb/ft and can both help drive the wheels, regenerative brake or perform 'torque vectoring' by driving the outside wheel & regen the inner wheel.
Thanks for your feedback. Don't forget that MGR motor torque gets multiplied by the gear reduction factor of 6.859:1. 96 lb/ft becomes approximately 658 ft/lbs at the wheels (minus frictional losses of about 10%)
A 67 hp motor geared to deliver 658 foot lbs to the rear wheel is more than sufficient for slippery snow conditions. If this torque can't turn the rear wheels one has then encountered incredibly "grippy" snow and the only reason then it wouldn't go is if the hybrid is trying to push an immovable object or something. Nice thing about below freezing weather is that the rear motor has less likelihood of over heating when it's needed most.
Oh let me tell you, I own a 2006 hybrid highlander and the rear motor is nothing to scoff at. Off the line it easily chirps the rear wheels on pavement. (I assume they would spin if it weren't for traction control). At speed 67 hp can't be underestimated. That's roughly a similar power boost to a turbo. If you hit the gas softly it doesn't engage, but if you floor it you feel it engage like a turbo. In snowy conditions the tires are capable of putting even less power down than on pavement, so it's still plenty. The limit of the rear motor is found when climbing steep dirt trails and the front reals slip. Under those conditions the motor has a hard time taking up the slack. Same goes for very deep snow or mud. but as long as you're not expecting a full-blown 4wd it performs quite well as described above.
Great video, very informative! I have a question I'm trying to find the answer too. I just purchased a high mileage Highlander Hybrid, 2009, with 190K miles. It has a good service record but they don't recommend changing transmission fluid or rear axle fluid (I didn't even know about the rear axle until this video). What are your thoughts on the matter? I'm curious what you would recommend. Thanks so much!
The transmission fluid needs to be changed every 5 years or 150k miles. Be sure to use the official Toyota WS fluid. Same with the rear axle. Best wishes
Awesome, thanks!! All I have wanted to do was learn if I needed to and how to fill the rear electric motor in 08 HH. We do not get MPG that I see most others online get. Any idea on where to start to figure that out? Any common problems that would cause this? Toyota is no help.
Thanks. Toyota said nothing about it being bad but I don't know how much they actually checked. I thought It might be the spark plugs as I have 207,000. I bought it with 178,000 and don't know if they were ever changed. Runs fine and it is an expensive job to have them changed so I have opted not to yet. I do have a whine somewhere under the hood, sound similar to an alternator (bad ground) whine through a stereo, but seems to come from the engine bay. Don't know if its related. Very annoying.
This is an excellent video. High quality, clear and concise information, without any fluff, stupid jokes, or ridiculous music. Really appreciate that. Great to hear from someone who actually understands the system and can explain it so well.
I'm a retired GM engineer, and find this series to be extraordinarily good. Should be required "reading" for any electro-mechanical engineers.
why does GM have square wheel wells for round tires?
@@alexhatcher8812 This is a tricky question, but the bottom line is machoism, plus some actual road & manufacturing problems reported to/at GMC. Molding or stamping rectangular panels is easier, for alignment purposes. This is also an artifact of the newer computer-design programs, where reference positions have to be measured by robotic sensors. I worked at IBM on this, and curved surfaces are a bitch to get right. Major cost & reject issues, particularly for fiberglass & composites. The real truckers reported mud & snow & ice packing issues inside round wheelwells, and we had similar issues for the combat vehicles. My guess is that a rectangular well drops or ejects impacted material better, since it has more lateral flexure movement inherently. Over-sized wheels do not seem to be an issue, since the jounce & rebound & forward-back are based on clearance dimensions, any direction. Lastly, the small-commercial contractors seem to prefer squared-off truck bed wheel wells, so that they have flat surfaces to attach boxes to, or lay stuff on, such as sheets of plywood. Round wells are terrible if you have ever tried to pack a truck-bed full with square boxes or objects. PassItOn.
I have a 2018 RAV4. The rear motor also activates during “kickdown” when overtaking. This even happens at high speeds too, when the gas pedal is floored.
This is according to the graphic display screen on my car.
Thank you! Yes, I forgot to mention that.
Clear and informative. No boring repetition. Thanks for excellent presentation and a lot of work editing!
Thank you for this video Professor Kelly. The sign of a superior instructor is one who has the ability to convey information to students in such a way that they can explain it to others. I feel I can give a quick elevator speech on the subject, maybe not all the model numbers and gear ratios, but at least the concepts.
Awesome! Thank you very much
Professor, I will be watching your videos all in a row. Very informative and clear. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you very much!
This is just a fantastic clear explanation!!! Thanks a lot. Together with the other video gives a great explanation of how the Toyota hybrid eorks
Invaluable information. Thank you Weber State!
Thank you sir, great little motor for conversions of small FWD cars.
THANKS FOR THE GREAT INFO. YOUR TIME AND EFFORT ARE APPRECIATED.
Thank you!
We have a 2012 Prius and a 2020 R4H (also an e-tron but that's another topic) so I am finding your videos interesting and informative! I would have enjoyed having you as a teacher way back when I was in college. Nice work.
I understand the highlander has a solenoid to control the gear reduction planetary, which I read about somewhere,
and I was hoping to find a video from you that shows / explains it, but have not found one.
Thanks for all of your videos, very helpful and useful.
Awesome and informative. I just purchased a 2021 Camry Hybrid. Very impressed with it.
3:10 1FM is indeed the "axle" code used in the 2.4 Estima hybrid & also the Alphard hybrid in Japan.
Btw thank you for your videos. I've actually been to Weber State university before but did not know such a good programme existed for auto mechanics.
Love the explanation of drag - the cube and the un faired motorcycle.
Thanks. Greetings from a UC Berkeley ME. I just bought a 08 Highlander Hybrid.
Your explanations are hell of a lot more fun than reading the hundreds of pages owner's manuals ... thanks.
LOL, Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the video, I found it very educational. The only discrepancy I noticed from my ‘06 Highlander is it’s mounted reversed from your videos descriptions.
Thank you, I may have gotten it backwards
It's like looking at the future mechanic's shop. Complete reassembly and plugging in of a new rear end and barely getting your hands dirty. Great informative video as always!
Thank you! I don't like getting dirty ;)
Thank you so much for posting the videos!
Glad you like them!
Love the cutaway, so cool
Another really interesting, well explained and demonstrated video. Thanks very much.
Thank you Prof Kelly!
This is the reason why I have a Rav4 hybrid rather than a regular Rav4. I've been a Toyota tech for 25 years and I have NEVER seen any problem with this electric rear axle. Compare that to the coupler problem commonly associated with Gen 3 Rav4.
Hey Joe, heard any grumblings about a corroded power cable at the MGR in 2019-2021 Rav4 in salty states or Canada?
Amaisingly informative video.
Thank you.
Nice content!
Thank you!
Excellent explanation.
nice work! good walk thru
Excellent video Sir. Keep up the good work
Thank you!
Interesting video, first time I have seen inside one of these hybrid transaxle motors, will need to get up to speed with your Prius series of videos, G'day from Australia.
Thank you! The series can be found here: ua-cam.com/play/PLIn3FrDiB1lyzmzZNBM24V_FsyuDx8ow_.html
Very good video. Thanks a lot and congratulations for your excelent work. 1,000 Likes!!!
Thank you!
Thank you
Wow, very interesting and clear, easy explanation. Thank You..................Jay
Thank you!
Thank you so much for sharing. Stay safe and God bless.
Thank you! You too!
Thank you!! Great video.
Thank you
Thank you!
I just realized that these rear axles could be great for projects--- I looked them up on ebay and they were only $250 used... Wow, this would be an easy EV conversion build.
I had exactly the same impression!
How did you look it up on eBay, I couldn’t find any
I wouldn't. Its a weak unit.
I'm thinking maybe an old VW Beetle would be fun with it
Have you found anybody that has successfully used this as a primary drive unit for a dune buggy or some other type of project??
I still think it’s very cool how the professor just rips away at the cut away
Thanks for watching
Thank you for sharing
Thank you!
good vid john.
Thank you!
Thanks you sir.
thanks for this video ...
Thank you!
Great video
nice video! thank you!
Thank you!
I am considering purchase of a 2021 Rav 4 Prime, and I assume the rear drive axle will be this Q211, or a variation on it. I'm glad that you pointed out the cooling fins and the need to keep them free of mud, I probably wouldn't think of that myself. I've watched your P610 deep dive video a couple of times now. I bought a Prius Prime last year, and your deep dive video is far and away the best explanation of the Prius transaxle I've ever seen. Thanks for doing these videos!
Thanks! I just bought one for an EV conversion, just what the "Doctor" ordered to replace a VW air-cooled pan!
excellent way to convert some small car to an EV
It sure is! But a very small car
@@WeberAuto 50kW should be enough if it is compact 3d hatchback for everyday office-home driving
and more - can use two of those transaxles in 4wd scheme, so having 100kW
@@WeberAuto have you had a chance to look into outlander's phev rear transaxle?
RAV4's is air-cooled, how about outlander's? is it liquid-cooled?
John @ Weber Auto, when are you going to do the newer 2020 of the RAV4 Hybrid AWD, and the Prime? I would really like to see that as I have one. These videos you make are the best informational videos out on vehicles. Thank you for doing them.
Thank you.
Thank you!
Thanks! You are awesome 👍
Thank you very much!
Thanks
Thanks!
Thank you Bruno! That was is kind.
Good job bravo.
Thank you!
My brain exploded at 9:58...I'm truly humbled...at how smart car people are...I hate working on cars/fords...got a 2019 Toyota Camery Hybrid Le...no problems in 3 years
How long hybrid models last?
Excellent video, outstanding I would say.
Thank you!
Professor. You could have a million+ views if you tore apart a Model 3 in the same fashion as your other videos. The school needs to buy a dual motor version so you can see the front and rear drive units.
oisiaa completely agree. Munro’s channel is getting lit up by tearing down Tesla’s. There’s a market for this. Good luck.
Thanks for getting back to me so fast. I wonder what losses would be having to take voltage from 288v to 650v. prices are really low,$250/500 ea.
Hi, professor . Want to first thank you i gained much more Knowledge watching your channel to my long time experience in Automotive technologies , if i was 40 years younger it would be a privilege to join your class at the Weber University , want to ask if you ever or going to cover another hybrid technology Used in Mitsubishi /Hyundai transmissions like the 6 speed A6MF2H which uses a clutch instead of a Torque converter
We just got the 2017 highlander hybrid, and having independent front and rear motors providing traction is better than having an open front to rear differential on the non-hybrid model which only temporarily engages front-rear lock via electromagnetic coupling after detecting slippage. Coupled with traction control which mimic limited slip differential between left and right wheels both front and back, there is almost never a time where the awd-i requires more traction. I understand from other sources that, as well as at launch, the awd is also engaged when turning and going uphill up to 25 mph.
Thank you for your feedback! Yes, there are three modes of operation. It is a pretty cool system.
Brian K It is much better to have electromagnetic coupling instead of this electric invention. Here is how electric awd "works" in Rav4: ua-cam.com/video/so8JLIYc1yU/v-deo.html
Brian K so after some use have you noticed good traction in snow or poor traction conditions?
@@LDubsChannel iv driven one. 17 highlander. Complete garbage in snow, wheel spins a few times than gives up for a few seconds, (spins with very little torque)
thank you very much for this useful video , can you next time explain power transmission for electrical car however it the same idea but the design is different , wish you all the best
Thank you for your feedback.
I've been trying to use my non-engineer brian to understand how I could make classic or antique cars hybrid axle vehicles. Something like this might work as the heart and brain I've been trying to find. I also hope your explanation will help me reach my goal of 40 MPG in my Lincoln Mark Vii 😂
the MGR seems like a good electric motor setup for a old vw bug or bus
Looks like a great motor for converting small/medium sized classic cars. Just add inverter and battery.
On my 2012 highlander the unit is mounted opposite of what you said. The half shaft outputs are the rear of the unit. The drain and fill plugs are on the drivers side. Maybe you mis spoke or the rav is different. threw me off haha. Thanks for posting this info!
Another great video! Any chance of getting your hands on the Lexus 600h transmission?
Thank you! I am looking for one
Wow! You are very knowledgeable! Would be awesome to work with you
I wish you could get hold of the rear drive of the 2012-2018 PSA Peugeot-Citroën HYbrid4 system.
I am planning to do a similar review, as it deserves some light thrown on it.
Wish I could work with you.
Please make a video about Volvo T8 electric rear axle or similar GKN eAxle drive unit - those are actually able to drive a car by themselves in pure EV modes, though I imagine are similar in concept to this Q211.
Thank you for the suggestion! That would be interesting
John, great info. Do you know if Toyota has updated the MGR since 2011?
Great video. So the electric motor is bathed in oil? Wouldn't that create a lot of drag at those high rpm? And at 244 volts doesn't it conduct electricity?
thank you so much for this video! Is there any maintenance requirements (i.e. change of fluid) on the real axle?
Yes, but not until high miles. Thanks for watching!
I am a follower an a fun of your channel from Nairobi Kenya. I am a vehicle mechanic and really interested in hybrid vecle mechanics because of shortage of technicians with this knowledge of hybrids vehicles here. I love to know if and where I can get more training manuals on these vehicles.
Thanks. See www.weber.edu/evtraining
Hi Professor, About a year ago I was driving my 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid up a slightly steep hill when I noticed the car started to vibrate seriously. I parked and called my not too highly technical mechanic (for Hybrid) come and check and probably fix up the car. We changed the transmission fluid in the main Transaxle but the vibration continued. On his way driving the car to another garage the vehicle shut down. It was then Towed to the other garage where the transmission mechanic told me that main Transaxle was damaged. I got another in Sierra Leone from the same model vehicle but the car did not start, ordered one through a friend from USA it still did not start up. I was also told to change the Inverter/Converter, I initially got one from a 2009 Highlander that involved in accident in Sierra Leone, the car did not still Start. Bought another Inverter/Converter from the USA the car is still not starting. About three months to this issue I did use the car for Towing a Lexus RX 300 for a distance of about 40km.
By the way I live in Sierra Leone, West Africa. Prof. please advise in this regard what should I do to fix this car up. My email address is musafrancisbaba@yahoo.com
Warm Regards
thank you sooooo much for your breakdown video. very helpful to understand what i am up against. I have a leak on the driver’s side shaft/case seal. Was told it needed the whole motor-axle replaced $1500 new + $1000 labor. Toyota Service: "Looks like truck is drove off road" (sic). I have yet to find breakdown of parts within motor-axle case to see if i could source just the final gear bearing. Do you have any such breakdown? i suspect it really isn't a serviceable part. both sides have a small amount of in/out play but the leaking side has some side-side play in it. Idk: 2009 w 205k miles. Hard to justify entire replacement and I can’t tell if salvage parts include the stub shaft subassembly and seal. i have not seen any video on actually uninstalling/installing unit from vehicle. seems like it shouldn't be to hard, but are there any Toyota surprises there? thx, k miller
Nice. I'm really surprised by how small the motors are. Especially MG2. I thought the electric motors would have been MUCH bigger.
Yea they are very weak:(
Sorry if this has already been asked/answered, but what would the estimated power split range be for the RAV4 hybrid system under normal and low traction conditions? For example (a total guess) under normal front/back min split of 90/10 and under low traction max split of 60/40 or 50/50? Since there is no transfer case to "disconnect" the rear e-diff, some power must always be provide to the rear e-diff to avoid drag, hence my 90/10 instead of 100/0.
Does the transmission oil enter the electric motors and effect on winding or motors are sealed from the oil?
does - i version has differential lock? awd got an assisting rear dive, not major off road dive.
Excellent info! Thank You! Question: I own a 2013 HH with 150,000 miles and was wondering if this rear axle needed a fluid change?
Yes you should do the rear axle oil. Most of the time the rear drive is not running (so low loads) but it's still spinning
The 2020 Highlander Hybrid has the Toyota Hybrid System II with a four cylinder gas engine and a smaller MG3 rear motor - similar to the 2020 RAV4. Toyota claims that with this new "e-four" system the rear motor, while being smaller, can deliver more torque to the rear wheels than the previous system. Is this done with gear reduction as explained in this video about the Q211?
The yellow label states the motor produces 67 horse power. That would be just enough To use it in an electric conversion in a subcompact car from the 80’s. Like my ‘88 crx hf which made 59hp from the 55mpg 1.5L 8valve engine and still got up to 80mph on the freeway weighing only 1700 pounds. The only issue would be the final weight after conversion with all the batteries if 67hp would be able to get it up to a 75mph speed limit. The new 2021 sienna awd has an electric motor in the back but it’s rated at 54hp.
Good question, I do not know
I always wondered if one could adapt these into say the prius c
Great videos as always. I was wondering what kind of camera do you use?
Thanks, a Canon HD Camcorder
Thanx
Thank you for your great videos! I have one question: What if you are on a hilly offroad ride and the battery is empty - can the engine produce enough power to fully drive the real axle?
High voltage battery will never be truly 0 percent discharge. Also it will never be truly 100 percent charged. This is Toyota built in safety measures for long-term reliability. In real world battery is only going from 20 - 80 percent. A lithium ion battery lifespan is prolonged when it's being charged / discharge within that range. So in your case the ICE will be on high power as both motor and generator while MG1 , MG2 and MGR will all be on as both motor and generator to quickly replenish that battery and help push car up incline. This is my rough understanding but I'm no expert. Toyota hybrid system is truly a marvel of engineering.
Would it be possible to have an electric ⚡️ motor for each wheel and less gears
I hope you get a chance to do a gkn transaxle from a Mitsubishi Outlander phev.
Thank you! I will add it to my wish list. Have a good day
WeberAuto they are starting to appear on eBay over here for not ridiculous money. It looks like the 2 motor/generators are mounted externally from what I can see from looking online. An interesting transaxle...
Plastic wedges to assist removing covers ?
Same-O, Same-O for the 2021 year model RAV4?
I'd always wondered if this rear drive unit would be good for doing an EV conversion on some small, light car. After seeing this presentation I suspect it would overheat in continuous duty.
thanks , same question ?
If you were to modify it for continuous use, I'm sure an oil cooler wouldn't be too hard to add 😉
Iv driven a highlander in the snow with this thing. Its very weak. Barely spins, has to think twice before spinning a little. Knowing toyota im sure that motor would not handle being a main motor.
@@vadimnesen8060 Hi, Mr. Nesen: Yes I was wondering about that. As we know, it seems to help to spin the wheels to get optimum snow traction. The motor is 50 KW.. with a LOT of torque after the reduction gearing. Seems like in snow it could spin. Does anyone know if the control system restricts MGR from spinning (slipping) the rear wheels? Can it be overridden by the operator? thx
@@foxlies0106 that I do not know
Thank you very much for this useful video. I did not see any clutches. It means that rear motor always in use(rotor rotates always) ? And vehicle uses 4wd full time?
Yes, it is always rotating, but not always powered by the electrical system.
Thanks for the video! So does the rear motor actually get power from the ICE when the hybrid battery is depleted? Another question, in your experience does the rear motor provide adequate power to even be considered AWD and does it perform well in snowy, poor traction conditions? Curious how it would perform with light off-road such as a rocky fire road. Thanks.
this electric system looks to be perfect for rear drive of my chevy hhr... or would I need another one in front to share the load of normal street and freeway use?
Thanks for your time in answering.
Interesting idea. There may some sort of aftermarket battery and controller that could power it. This system was not intended for continuous use, only for traction assist. It would overheat with continuous use.
Thank you very much for this video - highly informative. I accidentally dropped a fluid hard plastic straight tube attachment filler when I pumped in the fluid - apparently hasn't caused any damage. The tube was thick hard plastic about 6" long - what do you think?
Thank you! I am sorry, I do not understand what you did. Please explain it differently.
When I drained front transaxle (CVT-I) fluid and refilled with fresh fluid, the quick release on the lube pump released the attached tube mentioned above and it fell inside the transmission case.
Those resolvers are calibrated to half a degree of phase. So even making a marking might not be enough.
I understand that the Q211 in my Highlander Hybrid provides power to turn the rear axle when the computer determines it needs power to turn the wheels and I understand that the Q211 provides regenerative power for the battery when braking. What's going on with the motor between these two situations? Does the motor just "freewheel" - neither using electricity or producing it? Wouldn't just the turning of the motor inside the stator produce current and therefore resistance/drag?
Good question. The motor just free spins in that condition without generating any current due to the Inverter creating an open circuit in the stator coil circuits. Without current, there is just induced voltage and no power generation. I hope that helps.
Is this the same rear transaxle in the 2019+ Rav4 hybrid?
The new 2018 Highlander Hybird AWD-i now possesses 308hp net system power as it received the new 2GR-FXS which gets direct injection & VVT-iW, as does the 2018 Lexus RX450h. I think the MGR is identical (it is hard to find info on the rear drive unit) so the power gains are likely from the gasoline engine change.
Still finally a review on the MGR which seems to be glossed over, even in the PriusChat technical forums. A simple way of adding AWD to a SUV which customers demand without significantly altering the front drive HSD unit, but I question the effectiveness of only 67hp & 96lb/ft of torque can do in the real world however (especially when the front axle is stuck in snow for example).
Personally compared to the Lexus RX450h, I find the newer Acura MDX Sport Hybird is similar in design but more elaborate; the MGR in the Lexus is replaced by two smaller electric motors on each rear axle independently, each rated at 36hp & 54lb/ft and can both help drive the wheels, regenerative brake or perform 'torque vectoring' by driving the outside wheel & regen the inner wheel.
Thanks for your feedback. Don't forget that MGR motor torque gets multiplied by the gear reduction factor of 6.859:1. 96 lb/ft becomes approximately 658 ft/lbs at the wheels (minus frictional losses of about 10%)
A 67 hp motor geared to deliver 658 foot lbs to the rear wheel is more than sufficient for slippery snow conditions. If this torque can't turn the rear wheels one has then encountered incredibly "grippy" snow and the only reason then it wouldn't go is if the hybrid is trying to push an immovable object or something. Nice thing about below freezing weather is that the rear motor has less likelihood of over heating when it's needed most.
Oh let me tell you, I own a 2006 hybrid highlander and the rear motor is nothing to scoff at. Off the line it easily chirps the rear wheels on pavement. (I assume they would spin if it weren't for traction control). At speed 67 hp can't be underestimated. That's roughly a similar power boost to a turbo. If you hit the gas softly it doesn't engage, but if you floor it you feel it engage like a turbo.
In snowy conditions the tires are capable of putting even less power down than on pavement, so it's still plenty. The limit of the rear motor is found when climbing steep dirt trails and the front reals slip. Under those conditions the motor has a hard time taking up the slack. Same goes for very deep snow or mud. but as long as you're not expecting a full-blown 4wd it performs quite well as described above.
does the highlander energize this axle in reverse? iv had problems backing threw deep snow in my 2008 HiHy
Yes it does, but if the wheels start to slip, traction control takes over and may decrease power to them.
Great video, very informative! I have a question I'm trying to find the answer too. I just purchased a high mileage Highlander Hybrid, 2009, with 190K miles. It has a good service record but they don't recommend changing transmission fluid or rear axle fluid (I didn't even know about the rear axle until this video). What are your thoughts on the matter? I'm curious what you would recommend. Thanks so much!
The transmission fluid needs to be changed every 5 years or 150k miles. Be sure to use the official Toyota WS fluid. Same with the rear axle. Best wishes
@@WeberAuto Do you have a good video you'd recommend watching for instructions on transmission fluid flush? Thanks so much again!
My Lexus rx400h rear electric motor is making a loud bearing Iike humming noise. Is there bearings that can be replaced?
The passenger side should be the driver side on the MGR.
I probably mixed those up, thanks
Awesome, thanks!! All I have wanted to do was learn if I needed to and how to fill the rear electric motor in 08 HH. We do not get MPG that I see most others online get. Any idea on where to start to figure that out? Any common problems that would cause this? Toyota is no help.
Thank you. typically, lower mileage is a result of a weak hybrid battery
Thanks. Toyota said nothing about it being bad but I don't know how much they actually checked. I thought It might be the spark plugs as I have 207,000. I bought it with 178,000 and don't know if they were ever changed. Runs fine and it is an expensive job to have them changed so I have opted not to yet. I do have a whine somewhere under the hood, sound similar to an alternator (bad ground) whine through a stereo, but seems to come from the engine bay. Don't know if its related. Very annoying.